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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Lost Season Finale Chat
2008-05-29 18:00
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

No spoilers! You may chat about something as soon as it has aired on the West Coast.

Update: Some blog posts:

James Poniewozik at Time

Alan Sepinwall at the New Jersey Star-Ledger

Jeff Jensen at EW.com

Maureen Ryan at the Chicago Tribune

Cynthia Littleton at Variety

Comments (86)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-05-29 18:24:15
1.   Linkmeister
So once again it's West Coast über alles. Hmph.
2008-05-29 20:11:47
2.   jtrichey
Lost season finale, 1 word--WOW!!
2008-05-29 20:46:13
3.   Bluebleeder87
Really quick, congrats all Laker fans.
2008-05-29 21:13:39
4.   Jon Weisman
My attention is engaged.
2008-05-29 21:21:20
5.   LoneStar7
here on the west coast...this episode is awesome...just got him, missed the dodger game and only got the 4th quarter lakers on the radio.

I'm so amped I can hardly take this much action...at least Loney played well today, and kent and solution knocked one..

I can't believe we're back in the finals...sayid, as always, is the man

2008-05-29 21:26:26
6.   Greg Brock
All this Jeremy Bentham stuff is going to really mess up my presentation on Utilitarianism tomorrow.
2008-05-29 21:34:17
7.   Greg Brock
Ooh, videos!

I like the videos.

2008-05-29 21:37:42
8.   fanerman
He broke the tape!
2008-05-29 21:39:57
9.   Jon Weisman
If you're thinking of time traveling bunnies, then yes.

How many times have I said that?

2008-05-29 21:49:23
10.   ryu
Lost Season: The 2008 Los Angeles Dodgers

I kid, I kid.

2008-05-29 21:52:55
11.   LoneStar7
what was that thing said about jeramy bentham at the helicopter, whos jeramy...i read something about him being in a coffin? Anyone hard core lost enough to know.
2008-05-29 21:57:44
12.   fanerman
Only Bill Murray knows what Sawyer said to Kate in the helicopter.
2008-05-29 22:00:36
13.   KG16
12 - he said, "after when done shooting this scene, how about we grab some take out and the new Indiana Jones flick?"
2008-05-29 22:01:15
14.   Jon Weisman
11 - Jeremy was the name on the obituary of the dead man presumed to be in a coffin in last year's season finale.
2008-05-29 22:01:41
15.   Greg Brock
11 It was then name in the obituary Jack had with him when he went to see the mysterious coffin in last year's season finale.

Run-on sentences ftw.

2008-05-29 22:02:39
16.   KG16
oh wow, big wave challenge on espn2, I'm torn as to what I should be watching now.
2008-05-29 22:05:50
17.   KG16
Sayed might just be the best character on this show. Though Hurley is a close second.
2008-05-29 22:11:30
18.   Greg Brock
Boom goes the dynamite.

Bye, Jin :-(

2008-05-29 22:12:11
19.   fanerman
I continue to hold out hope that Jin lives. Michael somehow survives (of course the island won't let him die, but if he survives the blast, someone else can, too).
2008-05-29 22:13:44
20.   Jon Weisman
That is really unsatisfying to me that Jin got left behind because he had to be told to be with his pregnant wife rather than stare at a bomb he could do nothing about.
2008-05-29 22:14:02
21.   LoneStar7
no they cant be dead can they...michael, desmond, it cant be...and I can't believe jacks father, well and claire's father also, has become such an important character.
2008-05-29 22:14:42
22.   KG16
oh, now that is an evil commercial, three endings?
2008-05-29 22:15:31
23.   LoneStar7
oh wait desomnd did get on the helicopter..one small bonus, and yes jin has to be alive still!
2008-05-29 22:15:33
24.   KG16
20 - he was trying to save everyone by defusing the bomb. That's rather heroic in my book
2008-05-29 22:18:59
25.   KG16
swimming in blue jeans is very difficult
2008-05-29 22:20:19
26.   LoneStar7
25 well of course he lost the shirt to make up for it
2008-05-29 22:20:44
27.   Jon Weisman
24 - But he had no idea what to do with the bomb, and ultimately, his choice depended on being aware of Sun. If he thought of her five minutes earlier, he would have left. I just can't believe she wasn't on his mind.
2008-05-29 22:21:45
28.   Greg Brock
25 They make a very handy flotation device. Tie the feet, fold them over, blam! floaties.

Linkmeister can back me up on this.

2008-05-29 22:23:10
29.   LoneStar7
27 but this is lost, you can never take anything as it appears, because two episodes later, your idea of what really happened changes
2008-05-29 22:23:50
30.   Jon Weisman
That KABC reporter that I saw for an instant during the commercial looked like a young Christine Lund.
2008-05-29 22:28:02
31.   KG16
28 - yeah, but Sawyer doesn't strike me as the floaties kind of guy. Plus, network television, I doubt the FCC would have smiled upon Sawyer walking out of the ocean full montey style.
2008-05-29 22:28:33
32.   Jon Weisman
29 - That much is true, but in this moment it was disappointing.
2008-05-29 22:29:41
33.   KG16
I think I'm going to get one of these things installed in my next house.
2008-05-29 22:30:41
34.   Greg Brock
What in the Sam Hill?....
2008-05-29 22:34:53
35.   LoneStar7
man if i didn't have the lights on and wasn't take DT commercial breaks, this episode would really have my heart going...that whole helicopter going down was freaky, nothing like the plane crash, but definitely made me anxious
2008-05-29 22:35:22
36.   trainwreck
ABC re-creating Most Extreme Elimination Challenge.
2008-05-29 22:36:31
37.   Greg Brock
Ric Romero investigates yet another piece of technology that is seven years old.

Film at eleven.

2008-05-29 22:40:41
38.   KG16
34 - ditto
2008-05-29 22:45:05
39.   fanerman
Penny!!!
2008-05-29 22:46:01
40.   Daniel Zappala
28 Any Boy Scout who has gotten the swimming merit badge can back you up on that.

This is frustrating being an hour ahead because I'm not sure what you guys have seen yet. But the Penny meeting is fantastic.

2008-05-29 22:48:28
41.   LoneStar7
Penny!, wow thats a moment I've been waiting for at least
2008-05-29 23:00:06
42.   LoneStar7
what no, no , no way excuse me, I cant even grasp this...ok so jeramy is john, when else did we hear about jeramy again then and how is that important.?
2008-05-29 23:00:15
43.   KG16
well, now we know who Jeremy Bentham is, or was
2008-05-29 23:02:37
44.   Greg Brock
It's pretty funny if you know anything about Bentham's final repose.
2008-05-29 23:11:08
45.   Jon Weisman
44 - Who doesn't?
2008-05-29 23:14:30
46.   Greg Brock
45 Nobody, I guess (shrugs).

Reading around the tubes, I guess I'm not the only person that doesn't care what else happens. Penny and Desmond, man.

And as much as I love Jin/Sun, having him survive after the graveyard scene and the boat blowing up would be...Kind of cheap.

2008-05-29 23:18:40
47.   Jon Weisman
I love Penny and Desmond, and I love Jin and Sun. Hell, I love good ol' Frank.

So what's the story, 44 ?

2008-05-29 23:18:52
48.   Bob Timmermann
I'll take mummified people on display for $200, Greg.
2008-05-29 23:20:59
49.   Bob Timmermann
Mr. Weisman, meet Mr. Bentham.
http://tinyurl.com/5p3rpf
2008-05-29 23:23:27
50.   Greg Brock
47 You could hang out in my class tomorrow!

Seriously, it's pretty funny that I'm introducing Utilitarianism tomorrow.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-05-29 23:25:21
51.   Bob Timmermann
And more of Miles and Charlotte next year. But I guess Daniel is going to be on that Zodiac for a long, long, long, long time.
2008-05-29 23:26:23
52.   Bob Timmermann
Charlotte, for some reason, is proving to be the least popular character to come to the island since Ana Lucia.
2008-05-29 23:28:55
53.   Christina
46 I feel like Jin/Sun have run their course.

That said, I suspect in the end the show will cheap out and have both Jin and Michael survive, although I also suspect they may not turn up alive until the last season, much like Michael was AWOL for all of last season.

I had to laugh about how there were a bunch of redshirts on the boat that have been there since day one with the rest of the crew, but only Jin rated any attempts to be saved or any grief. How about the 9-10 other survivors who were on the freighter? To us they're no-name redshirts, but to the Oceanic 6 they should have mattered a little.

I'm slightly disappointed in how the Oceanic 6 came to be in that I was hoping it would be a little more of a conscious choice whether to stay or to make a devil's deal by leaving but also lying. Instead the Oceanic 6 ended up coming about largely by circumstance - the adults all wanted to leave, yes, but they didn't know they'd have to lie until after the island was eliminated for them as a choice.

Wonder who really is supposed to be raising Aaron, now that Claire's visit to Kate has muddied the issue? Is it too much to ask that Claire and her dad coordinate on their hauntings?

Overall, great finale.

2008-05-29 23:29:45
54.   LoneStar7
52 she still has some really interesting things to add though...we cannot forget finding that poler bear in the desert, or the fact that we can assume this is her second time on the island.
2008-05-29 23:30:23
55.   Jon Weisman
Links to blog posts (not mine) above.
2008-05-29 23:31:50
56.   Jon Weisman
49 - That is NSFB. Not safe for bedtime.
2008-05-29 23:33:10
57.   Greg Brock
So many great lines, as well.

"So?"
"You're move, Mr. Eko"
"All of you...Including HIM."

2008-05-29 23:36:22
58.   Christina
52 No character on Lost has ever been as unpopular as Nikki and Paolo. Even Ana Lucia had her fans.

That said, Charlotte is unpopular because she's been an ice queen all season and not in a fun or sexy way. I don't mind such a characterization, personally, but it does not go over well with most people.

(I never understood the vitriol towards Nikki and Paolo, either. Yeah, we never saw them before - but we always knew there were other survivors besides the main cast and supporting characters. Before the show ever premiered, I assumed that as some main characters were killed off previously unknown other survivors would step forward into our view much as Nikki and Paolo did. But that concept was absolutely loathed by apparently 99.9% of the fans.)

2008-05-29 23:41:29
59.   KG16
I learned about Jeremy Bentham in law school, when we were discussing the Rule Against Perpetuities
2008-05-29 23:41:46
60.   Jon Weisman
I was an Ana Lucia fan, and neutral on Nikki and Paolo. It was nothing against them personally - they just never found a satisfying story.
2008-05-29 23:42:12
61.   KG16
57 - I thought it was "Checkmate, Mr. Eko"
2008-05-29 23:42:25
62.   Greg Brock
I never quite "got" the Ana Lucia hate. She was meh, but people really hated her.

Nikki and Paolo episode was good!

2008-05-29 23:44:03
63.   Greg Brock
61 Ah, there you.
2008-05-29 23:44:17
64.   Bob Timmermann
It's quite likely that the fans didn't hate Ana Lucia as much as the producers hated Michele Rodriguez.

And I believe Hurley checkmated Mr. Eko.

2008-05-29 23:45:11
65.   Greg Brock
63 Ah, there you go. Oopsie.
2008-05-29 23:49:08
66.   Bob Timmermann
A link to the phone call Kate received with the audio reversed:

http://tinyurl.com/4f2xye

2008-05-29 23:50:07
67.   Christina
60 True enough, Jon. It's just that the hate seemed to start before Nikki/Paolo even had much airtime at all. And their only significant SL/airtime was in the ep in which they were killed off - I agree with Greg that it was a great ep, though.

My guess is that the failed Nikki/Paolo experiment contributed to the show's decision to kill off every remaining unnamed survivor by the end of this season, as they saw there was no way to be able to bring any of the unnamed survivors into the show's fabric without fans complaining about not having seen them before. The funny thing is that, for all of the talk about how the Oceanic 6 have to lie to protect those who remained, all that's left from the flight is really Locke (who's now dead, apparently) and Sawyer. Everyone else on the island is either an Other (ok, so Juliet's in a grey area) or from the freighter crew - which really limited the number of people Jeremy Bentham could turn out to be.

2008-05-29 23:51:37
68.   Christina
67 Oh yeah, and Rose and Bernard. Forgot about them since he was unseen and she was on for 10 secs - I look forward to her annoying Miles, though.
2008-05-29 23:54:42
69.   kngoworld
66 Another NSFB, shesh!
2008-05-30 00:02:03
70.   fanerman
Didn't Hurley tell Walt that Michael was alive? I can't remember the tone, though I imagine when Christian Shephard said "you can go now," he meant Michael was finally allowed to die.

Jin lives! I'll keep believing til they recover his body.

2008-05-30 00:02:45
71.   LoneStar7
66 that just freaked the heck out of me, who already has put that together though wow
2008-05-30 00:11:40
72.   Bob Timmermann
Gee, sorry for giving everyone nightmares.

I am reminded of the time I went on a trip to Quebec and I went to the historic convent where the skull of General Montcalm is displayed.

When I walked in, I paid the admission and asked for the full information packet. But the clerk said, "Don't you just want to see the skull?"
"No, I want to see the whole place!"
"It's OK. Lots of people just want to see the skull."
"OK, where's the skull?"
"It's over behind me!"

2008-05-30 00:11:44
73.   fanerman
71 Eastcoasters I bet.
2008-05-30 06:31:31
74.   Penarol1916
Eh, not a great episode for a season finale, like 67. it was pretty easy to figure out who Jeremy Bentham was given what we knew. I assume Michael is dead because Jack's dad told him he could go now.
2008-05-30 06:58:51
75.   Jon Weisman
More blog posts added up top.
2008-05-30 07:06:55
76.   JoeyP
It was a fitting finale to a really lackluster season imo. Just seemed there was too many science fiction type elements in season 4, and much of the suspense has been gradually released (not built), through all the flash forwards.

Season 3 was terrific, and the flash forward in that season finale was like a "wow" type of moment.

This particular finale did answer some questions, and open a few more...but nothing mind blowing.

Did anyone else think Ben was travelling to the middle of the Earth in order to move the tectonic plates, and thereby move the island? That just seemed so out of place, even for Lost.

I did like the new characters on season 4 though.

Last season, I was all bummed that it'd be 8 months till the new episode. This time, I'm not anticipating the new season near as much.

2008-05-30 07:33:06
77.   Penarol1916
There are some interesting things to be waiting for next season. Is Sun really wanting to work with Widmore? I suspect yes, and it's because Locke, as Bentham, told her that Ben is the reason that the boat blew up, so he is the other person she blames for Jin's death. It could be interesting to see how that plays out.
2008-05-30 07:56:57
78.   JoeyP
Walt's going to be 6'5 before this series is over.
2008-05-30 09:44:07
79.   Daniel Zappala
Next season is supposedly about how the 6 go back to the island (and presumably, what happened that makes this necessary). The one after that is then about what they do once they are there.
2008-05-30 11:31:06
80.   Jon Weisman
Harold Perrineau has decidedly mixed feelings:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tvguide/365208_tvgif30.html

2008-05-30 12:18:14
81.   Bob Timmermann
The Michael character was much more interesting the second time around. There was much less yelling of "Walllllllllllllltttttttttttt"
2008-05-30 14:10:45
82.   fanerman
80 Yeah I felt like his return didn't really do him justice. It was just very... quick.
2008-05-30 23:03:39
83.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
I believe the following:

- Jin (and Michael) may not actually be dead. Sun thinks Jin is dead because she saw the frieghter blow up and sink, but he may have jumped overboard and swam for it. That said, it will be hard to explain how Jin could get back to the island when he was farther away from it than the chopper (heading back to the island) when the island moved.
- Daniel (and the other redshirts with him) may not be dead. They seemed to have been closer to the island than the helicopter, and so it may be that the boat got moved with the island, so we may see more of Daniel/Rebecca next season.
- Locke may come back to life when brought back to the island. Just a hunch.
- Sun doesn't wish to help Widmore: he wishes to kill him or otherwise harm him. Whatever play she is making by confronting him in London is unclear.
- It will be too freakin' long until next season!

Not as much of a mind bender as last season's finale, but they sure are advancing the story along. I like how they tell you instantly that the man in the coffin is "Jeremy Bentham", 'solving' a mystery, and then end the episode revealing Bentham to be Locke. How many people guessed last year that it was Locke in the coffin? I may have...

2008-06-01 15:34:19
84.   underdog
I finally saw the second hour of the finale, watching online as I had Tivo issues (my channel 7 went blooey and cable switched channels so I got an hour of Seinfeld reruns!) Anyway, except for a few minor nitpicks (and agree with Jon that Jin's death felt a little contrived as to how it happened -- and yeah, I have a feeling he's not dead, but we'll see), but overall I thought it was very satisfying and gripping. I knew Locke was Bentham, just knew it (not after last year but before the reveal here), and yeah, you never know... since he's going back to the island he may be alive again before it's all over. Wouldn't put it past them.

All in all, I don't think I can last 'til the next new episodes! May have to go back and rewatch this season just to catch anything I missed. I really wish there was just one more season, though. The thought of two more really seems stretching it, but then I thought that before and was engaged all this season.

2008-06-01 15:36:19
85.   underdog
I liked some of the insights on that Time blog post on the finale. This one cracked me up:

>>What does it mean that Michael—who never knew Christian—sees Christian in his last moments? Is "Christian" actually Christian at all? Is he a manifestation of the Island? (Which, by the way: If the Island lets people die as a way of telling them it's "done" with them—Michael, Locke—then the Island is kind of a jerk.) Or is he Smokey? Does Smokey have that kind of range?<<

2008-06-01 22:29:01
86.   Dodger Tony
A very good blog on lost is Nikki Stafford's blog www.nikkistafford.blogspot.com. She has written a companion book to the show and there is some very good minutae and high regard for detail.

Jeremy Bentham created the Panoptic Prison, a cylindrical self regulating prison where the guards and prisoners can see each other and food is delivered automatically, or something like that. The show is now functioning on a heavily allegorical level. The most profound image to me was Ben turning the wheel in a Nietzche time moment.

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