I can sniff .500...

This 66-game season isn't fair. The DBacks get 34 home games and the Dodgers only get 32...

Broxton got the job done this time, but if you looked closely as he blew away the side, you could just see the fear in his eyes.

Maybe we should have DeWitt close. Now there's a ballplayer.

What is up with Nomah. He's gonna party like it's 2002.

Seriously, it'll be great to see yet another young player prove he can handle the job when given the chance. No reason Brox won't be a great closer for years.

we needed a happy ending I we definitely got it... Lets just hope the Dodgers can build on this & win a few more.

Nomar is 11-for-31 with three homers and 10 RBIs since coming off the DL.

Rafael who?

I might just don the Nomar jersey all day today.

Great play by Juan DeWitt last night.

But let's be real here. We can't expect to be successful with two sub 700 ops guys manning traditional power positions. It's just not going to happen. DeWitt backers, feel free to wake up any minute.

Anyone know what happened to Chris Withrow?

I can't find any stats in the minors on him? Is he hurt?

8 Funny you should post something like that. I'm extremely happy that Nomar has really filled the hole at shortstop so far. However, I was just thinking, what if Furcal hadn't gotten hurt? Where would Nomar be? Would he have displaced DeWitt at third even though DeWitt is a better defender and is a favorite of Torre? I think DeWitt would be in Vegas or on the bench if Nomar were not needed at short. He'd be hitting better than DeWitt but the Dodgers would have lost some defense at third. It's doubtful that Nomar makes the play that Blake made in the 9th last night - in which case the Dodgers lose - even with Nomar's 2 hommers. Of course with Furcal not getting hurt, I'd like to think that the Dodgers would be all alone in firstplace right now anyhow.

I forgot who brought this up in an earlier thread this week, but since the middle of May, DeWitt's been pretty weak at the plate. In his last 50 games: .226 .284 .294 .576. Geez. All while LaRoche sits on the bench.

http://tinyurl.com/59brwu

Should I also be scared that they now sell DeWitt jersey shirts at Walmart?

10. I think he's hurt and hasn't pitched yet. Maybe others will know for sure, but that's what I remember reading here.
vr, Xei

The DeWitt-LaRoche thing has been one of the most aggravating subplots of the season. Every time I say DeWitt should benched in favor of LaRoche, it seems Blake comes through with a key hit or big defensive play, while Andy continues to stink it up in his limited role off the bench.

To be clear: I don't hate DeWitt. Far from it. He's been a terrific story, and I'm glad we got him (unlike Juan Pierre). But LaRoche could be the big power hitter we so desparately need, and he's not doing what he needs to do to get playing time.

It's been one of many frustrations this season.

12
14

Not sure I understand the preference for LaRoche over DeWitt.

This year LaRoche has been hitting .178, last year (in majors) he hit .226.

Blake's hitting .262 (baseball reference), so why do you prefer LaRoche?

Let me in on the secret.

Amazing--I just found courage to look at the scores after falling asleep last night after the second. Every now and then we actually win one of these!

14 How true. I think LaRoche needs to be plugged in and played until it works, and he may never get a chance like that on a team like the Dodger. It is frustrating.

LaRoche has much better minor league numbers than DeWitt, which leads people to predict that he will be a better major league hitter.

LaRoche has not performed well yet in the majors (other than showing exceptional patience), in part because of injuries.

15-
Batting Average isn't everything.

Blake DeWitt is the new Paul LoDuca.

Heart.

Soul.

And.

Not only does LaRoche have better numbers than DeWitt, but more generally speaking, he's one of the few Dodger youngsters who has shown the necessary skills (i.e. both power and patience) for reaching "elite hitter" status. None of the others (Kemp, Loney, Ethier, Martin, DeWitt, etc.) can match his potential.

14.
I don't think anyone here dislikes or doesn't want DeWitt on the team, we just want Andy to be given consistent at-bats instead of playing the role of bench player. His minor league numbers suggest a power/patient approach, which is what this team needs!!

20

It's true. He's always been the best hitter of that entire free-swinging, marginally-powerful bunch (Martin doesn't free-swing, of course).

And he's the only one of them to not ever get an everyday chance.

Anyway, it'll be fun to post his numbers here when he's hitting 30 HR for another team while our 3B keeps everyone impressed with an empty .260 batting average.

Over the past month or six weeks, work got crazy and family got crazier. So I haven't been paying as much attention to the Dodgers as I would have had things been different.

Back when Eric Stephen (I think) did his poll in mid-May (I think), asking who DTers thought should be the starting 3B now that LaRoche was healthy and in Vegas, I was a DeWitt backer. Yes, I acknowledged, LaRoche has the greater potential. But at the time, DeWitt was (a) in the majors and (b) performing well. So long as he is keeping it up, I felt, there is no reason to shake things up. Why not let's see what DeWitt can do, and if (when!) he slumps, be ready to replace him with LaRoche?

So I wake up six weeks later to find that the first part of my plan was implemented and the second part ignored.

Unfortunately for familial harmony, Mrs. Kavula is a DeWitt fan. "He'll figure it out," she reasons, even though there's no reason to believe that he will.

DeWitt saves the game yesterday with his glove! That play was sick especially with two outs in the bottom of the ninth winning run crossing the plate as he throws the runner out That was clutch!

not every minor leaguer with great power numbers automatically produces in the majors you cant just sit on 2-0 fastballs in the bigs. I'll take a future gold glove at third DeWitt's numbers will improve he seems to make adjustments. My vote is for DeWitt over LaRoche until he proves otherwise when given a chance

Who's to say that young, excellent minor leaguers won't be good major leaguers?

And who's to say that young, mediocre minor leaguers won't be great major leaguers?

That's what's so great about this game: you just never know! It's a complete crapshoot!

The weather at Royal Birkdale is horrible. The leading score at the end of the day will probably be +5.

The leading score at the end of the day will probably be +5

And there's a very good chance that will constitute a 2-shot lead.

22 -- You think Loney and Ethier are "free swingers?" I certainly don't agree.

OK, so what's the betting that, at last, Jones will be diagnosed with "continued flu-like bupkis" day-to-day and won't start either today or tomorrow? What's the betting on his not starting right through Wednesday?

There are 4 players since June 1st with lower OPS (min. 100 PA) than DeWitt's .509 OPS, Jose Vidro, Jason Varitek, Freddy Sanchez and Omar Vizquel.

27 I think the players would be very happy to just +5 at the end of the day.

One guy is in the clubhouse at +5.

28

Compared to LaRoche and Martin, yes. They've never had a ton of BA/OBP separation throughout their careers. Not saying they're like Jeff Francouer or anything.

Sometimes. Sometimes, numbers don't tell the whole story. That play at third base last night MAYBE, just maybe saved our season. That play was a two game swing. He stumbles, bobbles, anything and we're down 2 games heading into tonight. That means far more than his OPS and/or any number that could be shown. Sometimes numbers don't tell the real story. Sometimes this game is very subjective. Blake DeWitt's story and success is not based on numbers. It's not based on him 'playing the game the right way'. It's based on him making the plays at the big moments. That's what people remember. That's why he's our third baseman.

33. Yeah maybe. And maybe LaRoche would have made the play too. It was a good play, but a play any decent 3rd baseman would have made. I was certainly glad he made it, but there was absolutely no sense of "miracle" about it.

Best game of the year last night.

Looked like a different team.

That was a great play, but a play I would expect to be made by any major leaguer.

14 By that logic I hope you continue to say "DeWitt should benched in favor of LaRoche" every time he has an at bat and every time the ball gets hit on the left side.

Gotta love the key hits. =)

This is like a soccer game. DeWitt makes a good stab (while going one for five) and he drives the ball within a hundred yards of the goal. If LaRoche gets a clutch pinch hit today, he'll drive the ball back the other way just about as far. Every time somebody says LaRoche is below the Mendoza line this year over his forty-five at bats, somebody calls a penalty.

No wonder the hooligans break beer bottles over each other's heads.

33 Maybe. And maybe if LaRoche had been playing he would have been two for three with a couple of RBI and the Dodgers would have been winning by two.

People will remember the play in the big situation-- but does that mean that that play was more important than the fact that he had gone 0 for the game? LaRoche is a better hitter, so it is more likely that he would have gotten a hit to put the Dodgers ahead earlier in the game. And all signs point to his being at least as good a defensive 3B as DeWitt, so it is also likely that he would have made that play in the 9th.

I don't think DeWitt is the problem. The problem is that we (or at least I) don't think management has good judgment when it comes to player personnel. Calling up Johnson over Kershaw is a perfect example...

I don't have the confidence in LaRoche I used to have, but DeWitt's numbers don"t lie. Likely Torre's liking him so much will work against him in the long run, he won't get sent down for the development and possible position change he needs. His wizardry at 3rd base indicates he is likely capable of playing 2nd or short. I would much rather see him at 2nd than at 3rd, where he will never likely hit enough to deserve the job. I'd like to see them play LaRoche for a month; if he hits well, that's great; if he doesn't, cross him off the list and look elsewhere for a 3rd baseman. Is Troy Glaus available at all?

Is Troy Glaus ever un - available...?

32 -- I have a problem with the way you use the term "free swinger." A free swinger strikes out a lot, or at very least swings at a lot of bad pitches and manages to make contact with them. That has never described Ethier or Loney. If you want to distinguish Martin and LaRoche from the others, I think the best way is to say they draw more walks and leave it at that.

33 Definitely flawed logic there. What if LaRoche had started and gotten key hits to knock in runs earlier in the game so that the play in the 9th wouldn't mean anything? You can't just cherry-pick one certain play and claim it as the reasoning for choosing one guy over another.

44 = Oh, it's definitely not one reason why DeWitt is playing over LaRoche.

33

I think that all the pro-LaRoche people around here would agree with you about numbers not telling the whole story, 'cause these are the numbers:

24yr, 165 PA: .210/.341/.319/.660

22yr, 296 PA: .262/.328/.369/.697

46 check those stats when the 24yr has 300 PA

46 Misleading stats. DeWitt's stats are all in one season. LaRoche's are spread over 2 seasons and can best be described as sporadic opportunities at best.

Cora Daniels is the um-ingest speaker I've heard since I was in high school. It was remarkable.

47

Thank you for illustrating my point.

and 48

Can we all agree that neither of them have, at the major league level, hit worth a warm bucket of spit? And that the difference between slightly less cold spit is not particularly impressive?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7928

Andy LaRoche current stats. Forget his batting avg., just look at his slugging and On base percentage, this is the guy you're all promoting?

Also, one of the reasons why I think Torre plays DeWitt over LeRoche is because of LeRoche's complaining about not being called up after rehabbing ahead of schedule, and Torre thinking he was trying to whine his way back up. Thus Torre sitting up down and only using him as an occasional Pitch Hitter.

I don't care who wins the DeWitt or LeRoche battle, but LeRoche's situation is that he has to basically force his way into the lineup with great performances or hope DeWitt breaks an ankle. And er, LeRoche isn't forcing himself into the lineup with a .288 OBP.

51 Not sure what you mean. DeWitt has had 5 PA in 3 of his last 4 games. LaRoche has not had 5 PA all year and only 1 PA in 1 of his last 6 games.

The point being, LaRoche never gets a chance to go out and play, and DeWitt does.

Most Pro=-LaRoche fans feel if Andy were given the same oportunity this year as DeWitt has, his stats would be better then DeWitt's, and ver the course of their careers the same would play out.

The stats you display show no evidence to the contrary.

54 only 1 PA in 1 of his last 6 games

Make that more then 1 PA in 1 of his last 6 games.

33 The things Bill Plaschke inspires Dodger fans to say. That's some hilarious logic.

And I thought 38 was one of the funniest comments in a while.

I think there is a lot of underestimating DeWitt and overestimating LaRoche. It falls somewhere in between and where I'm not sure. I like them both and want them both to succeed.

56 - Ha. Don't compare me to Plaschke. Hilarious, true and hard for some to accept.

53 LeRoche isn't forcing himself into the lineup with a .288 OBP.

Using that logic, why isn't DeWitt forcing himself OUT of the lineup? He's been killing us with the bat for 2 months now. And we've got one of the most highly regarded prospects in baseball serving as his bat boy.

43

I'm sorry you have a problem. Ethier and Loney chase more pitches. That's all.

Off for the day, be good.

52 - if it means that we can move on to some other topic, any topic, I'll be more than happy to oblige.

Does anybody have a link to DeWitt's defensive play in the 9th? Thanks in advance.

I think there is a lot of underestimating DeWitt

Majors:

.262/.328/.369/.697

Minors:

.279/.333/.444/.777

And if it's DeWitt's knack for clutch hitting that you like, wouldn't that make him the perfect pinch hitter?

I think there is a lot of overestimating DeWitt and underestimating LaRoche. DeWitt held down the fort for a month, and was a pleasant surprise. It's time for LaRoche to step up and take what's his, while DeWitt needs to work on adding some pop in AA or AAA.

57 I like them both and want them both to succeed.

What Dodger fan wouldn't want that?

However, and this is the biggest problem many Dodger fans and baseball fans in general have. And that is: there is insufficient evidence to determine whether Dewitt or LaRoche (insert other young players here for other fans) is being overestimated or underestimated.

It amazes me how such concrete determinations can be made about a players career in 165 PA or 296 PA.

Call me crazy, but if a player is considered a good player with promise, I'd like to see between 1200-1600 PA's before making strong deteminations about that players future career possibilities. But that's just me.

54

Alex41592 said that numbers don't tell the whole story in his defense of DeWitt.

I argued that pro-LaRoche people would argue when looking at MLB numbers that those numbers do not tell the whole story with regards to LaRoche (using DeWitt's numbers as a comparison).

Since you would qualify LaRoche's numbers by pointing out the inconsistency of his PA's, I would suggest that you are supporting my argument.

Glendale, Arizona complex update -> [ http://tinyurl.com/6f464f ] >>The $80 million complex will include six full practice fields and two half fields per team besides the main stadium, which will feature 13,000 seats, including 3,000 grass berm outfield seats, 12 suites, five concession buildings, 4,000 parking spaces and titled walls.

There also will be a two-acre water feature/lake in the complex that contains reclaimed water and local architectural features, a Walk of Fame for the Dodgers and White Sox that leads to the main stadium and 130,000 square feet of clubhouse space.

The cream will rise to the top. It almost always does when patience is exercised. I just hope someone doesn't trade the cream before the spoon quits stirring.

59 Using that logic, why isn't DeWitt forcing himself OUT of the lineup? He's been killing us with the bat for 2 months now. And we've got one of the most highly regarded prospects in baseball serving as his bat boy.

Because DeWitt's defense keeps himself in the game. Torre doesn't expect much from DeWitt other than to make sure 3rd Base isn't a problem when fielding. On this team, the power should come from Kent, Nomar, Kemp, Ethier, and Martin. DeWitt's main job is to make sure that balls going his way is caught and flung to Loney for the quick out.

This team is flawed, but the DeWitt-LeRoche argument is way down the list from the problems the Dodgers have such as Andruw Jones or Jeff Kent.

Also, T.J. Simers said it would be a mistake if the Dodgers traded Matt Kemp, and then because its the Dodgers, they would do it.

57- Is DeWitt a better hitter than he's been? That's the argument that I haven't seen, yet, I don't think. Is there a reason to think that DeWitt, right now, is better than a bad hitter?

There are reasons to think LaRoche is: his total minor league stat; high marks from scouts for the last three or four years. There are a couple of reasons to think he isn't: his injuries; his not particularly great for LV numbers last year.

Maybe LaRoche isn't going to be as good as we hoped/expected. But I can't see what the expectations that DeWitt is good enough, right now, for that spot are based on. Maybe Nomar can hold together for the rest of the year and not be a disaster (offensively) at SS. But it's not looking good for at least one outfield spot, and there's no guarantee that it won't be two spots. Kent's been bad (about as bad as DeWitt). Loney and Kemp are sophomore slumping. 3.5 is rounded down, but he's not lighting the world on fire.

Russ Martin is the only solidly above the cut offensive player, by position, on the team right now. That's a problem for a team with playoff hopes. Especially for one depending on Stults and Park to not turn into pumpkins.

70 Stop that metaphor! :)

46:

Also for comparison:

LaRoche has 138 PA over 07-08 with BA of .210
Jones this year has 167 PA, BA .162

71 A hole is a hole. Because there are worse holes doesn't mean DeWitt gets a get out of hole free card.

Went to the game last night. Andruw Jones didn't take BP, didn't even see him on the field, so maybe the flu thing is true. He looked absolutely awful, swinging late at Davis' 82mph cheese.
Pierre wasn't on the field for BP either, I was going to try to take a video of him running.

Best part of the game was after Loney's HR, everyone was despondent, yet nobody left because it was fireworks night, so it was just a completely silent 11th inning.

I can't understand how anyone, especialy torre or den, would choose DeWitt over LaRoche as the every day 3B. If Andy hadn't gotten hurt in ST he would have clearly been the starter or at least earned the position. He was tearing up ST when he got hurt. DeWitt was brought in as a stop gap and everyone knew he had a great glove but mediocre bat, which can be seen from his minor league stats where LaRoche has consistently gotten higher numbers than DeWitt in OBP/SG%/OPS, as well as now that he's crashed back to earth after his one good month.

If there was any forward thinking in the 'brain trust' DeWitt would be working out at 2B, since Kent looks to have lost a 1/2 step and his eye. Essentially torre is jacking LaRoche around the same way lasorda did with Konerko, putting him in as the occasional PH or giving him a rare start then when he doesn't do well pointing to it to justify why he doesn't play more.

I think the people really pushing for DeWitt to succeed (and I am one of those) should be rooting for him to get sent down. He had a hot start, but pitchers have obviously figured him out.

I mean, he's only had 71 games at AA and none at AAA. And his hitting numbers there were pretty weak: .280/.306/.466 in his last stint, with 7 walks in 178 ABs. There's just no reason to think that the April version of DeWitt is the real one.

Almost no one thought DeWitt would be more than a stopgap when he came up. We shouldn't let an impressive month blind us to why we felt that way.

71

Do you really think that Jeff Kent is one of our biggest problems? What is your list of the teams problems? mine would be:

1. 3rd base is a black hole at the plate (forget who is playing there) we are getting no offense from 3rd

2. Andrew Jones, this would be number 1 but I think he maybe going back to the DL, so I guess this problem is that I think we need a better option in the OF

3. Loney is not pulling his weight, last nights HR does not change this, however he had a solid June so there is reason to be hopeful that he will pick it up in the 2nd half

4. Bullpen, yes I know the bullpen has been lights out but with Sammy out I think this become a worry

5. I don't know, maybe Kent's decline, but he has been playing better since June and as long as we bring in a defensives sub this does not stike me as a big problem to have. Personally I would put Torre here as he doesnt strike me as a good talent evaluator.

If we're just using one stat:

LaRoche career OBP .341
Dewitt career OBP .328
I'm sure everyone would agree that OBP is way better stat than BA.

LaRoche is no more than a glorified pinch hitter right now, not having started more than 2 games in a row this season while Dewitt's been in there day in and day our despite being horrible at the plate for more than half the season. He was on the bench the game after each time he's hit a HR this season. How do you expect a guy to get into a groove like that?

73 I think that metaphor should be extended ad nauseam. People should take sides and over-analyze it until someone makes some sort of wardrobe based wager based on an arbitrary percentage of its accuracy.

Where did DeWitt's walks go? Seems like the league has adjusted by throwing him more strikes because they know he's not much of a threat if he hits it.

The OF spot that doesn't have Kemp or Ethier in it is at the top of my list. Then 3B (which gets more teeth gnashed at it by virtue of there being something that could reasonably be considered a solution on the team already--situations like this will always grate more than problems with no easy fix). Then Nomar (I'm not sold). Then Kent. Then the back of the rotation. Get well soon, Penny.

I didn't wanna do this because I respect DeWitt to much but LONG TERM La Roche will be the better player PERIOD! (look at the #'s) upside has spoken & La Roche wins.

[ http://tinyurl.com/5qwhhh ]

[ http://tinyurl.com/6fsmqh ]

DeWitt is doing an incredible job though, we can't take that away from him.

a bigger problem is that upper-management thinks that losing Pierre was a big blow to our team & when he comes back Torre is gonna stick 'em back in the lineup, that's what we're dealing with guys!!

sigh.

This is all my fault. I'm 37 years old now. All I ever wanted as a child was to play third base for the Dodgers. I could have saved us from years of 3rd sacker mediocrity (and worse). Sure we would have missed Beltre's big year, but maybe we could have traded him for something great. I'd be a PVL now of course, but I'm younger than Jeff Kent still. I swear I would gracfully retire so LaRoche could step in should my production drop.

I'm very sorry for letting all of you down. I could prevented all of this.

(You know, if when I was younger I didn't actually suck)

Somebody else mentioned this also is that scouts all agree that La Roche's power projections are way higher then DeWitt.

He is a problem when you put him in the middle of the order and he has a OBP of .278 as a 3 hole hitter and .311 as a clean up hitter.

Couple that with his gawdy .319 slugging from 3 hole or .431 from clean up and for me, it's why were not blowing the rest of the division away. Put a real middle of the order bat in there and we wouldnt blame Kemp anymore..

The Solution™ has become a problem. I hope I'm not the first to say that. I also hope that LaDewche is part of the infield puzzle for years to come.

I wrote on this blog that Kemp was going to get traded. As I'm probably wrong about that and as I have been wrong about so many, many things in the past, I thought I'd put forth another prediction:

LaRoche will get traded for a reliever. He will then have a Paul Konerko-type career. And we will all, all get to say I told you so.

(sigh)

Man, I hope I'm wrong.

79

So the guy who is OPSing .709 as our clean-up hitter and is too old to play everyday is not as a big a problem as the 24 year old who is OPSing .803 and leads our team in total bases?