Today's lineup:

Pierre CF
Kemp RF
Martin C
Ramirez LF
Kent 2B
Loney 1B
Blake 3B
Berroa SS
Johnson P

Grats on 4!

FREE ANDRE ETHIER!

And happy birthday li'l Weisman!

Aw man, Kent's back at 5th?

I was LAT'd and no one else probably cares but:

520 - I know, I put it in quotes because I was trying to personify the mentality that thinks it's hilarious to have an actor of short stature in a movie. (Er, I don't think "dwarf" is correct either, amigo.) But you're right, Myers has other issues. Like thinking The Love Guru would be funny. In any way.

By the way, an actor of short stature who is so good that he's no longer just getting roles because he fits that is Peter Dinklage. Great actor. Now no one cares what his height is. Or less than they did. Maybe he'll open up some doors.

Man, Ethier needed to start today, even if he's not officially starting any more. Kemp in CF. That would've been nice. Oh well, a dog can dream.

Happy Birthday, young Weisman!

Have a virtual birthday water balloon!

Congrats on an error-free four years. Happy birthday to the little Weisman!

Happy birthday! I hope a Dodger win is one of your presents.

5 Er, I don't think "dwarf" is correct either, amigo

ORLY? You sure about that?

Probably saw this already and it isn't literally anything new but it's kinda useful to have this so clearly encapsulated (from the PE.com/beloblog):

"THE DODGERS' PAYROLL today is $118 million, and that's with Ramirez, Blake and Angel Berroa being paid by their former clubs. With Blake, Ramirez, Rafael Furcal, Nomar Garciaparra, Jeff Kent, Derek Lowe, Takashi Saito and Brad Penny (club option) all potential free agents, next year's could be closer to $75 million."

3 Dittos!

Hm, you're right. Well, the more important part is that "little people" prefer no one call them by either word, dwarf or midget. "Little People of America (LPA) defines dwarfism as a medical or genetic condition that usually results in an adult height of 4'10" (147 cm) or shorter." (From Wikipedia) And then there are a bunch of different kinds of dwarfism. But medically, officially there is a different term but Peter Dinklage and Verne Troyer could be called dwarves, yeah.

Also (from WP): "Midget is a term used to describe an exceptionally short person. The terms "midget" and "dwarf" are often used synonymously, as both terms mean someone who has been short in stature since birth, but those terms were not originally synonyms." "The word dwarf has generally replaced midget even for proportionally short people, though the term little person is preferred."

Also from WP: "The Love Guru is a painfully unfunny film from Mike Myers."

No it doesn't say that. It could if I felt like editing wikipedia.

Young Master Weisman

Tell Dad that you'd really like to catch a LV 51's AAA game and see Andruw play, hit..or maybe not, and maybe catch a glimpse of Andruw at one of the many Las Vegas buffets, how about a road trip?

6 The Dodgers must do their best to minimize the value of the Manny Trade. Anything else would just not be winning "the Dodgers Way."

With the extra money for next year, I'd sign Dunn and Sabathia. You'd just hope that Dunn would not replace Ethier.

It was my nephew's 3rd birthday yesterday. The present opening went as follows:

Open present
Focus on that present and forget all others
Get corralled and forced to open next present against will
Open present
Focus on that present
Rinse
Repeat

futile but interesting discussion from previous thread - 525. conor jackson also strikes out less than he walks but he walks quite a bit. those sort of players (the ones that can hit too) tend to have long productive careers.

Use some of that saved money to buy out the contract on an incredibly stupid manager.

15 As much as I think Pierre was a bad signing, he is no longer one of our top concerns. The Dodgers infield next year is going to be seriously weak.

Pierre in left and batting 8/9 rather than 1 is really not that bad. He is a significant plus defender in left which does help offset his terrible offense.

We have, next year, as things stand now, replacement level or below at 2B, SS and 3B (and Loney, as much as I like him, is still significantly substandard for 1B. Like Pierre (though not to the same extreme), his plus defense is helping a below average offense).

I think at this point, unless something miraculous happens, we just need to accept our problems with Pierre.

4 I think it's going to be a lefty/righty deal. Kent bats 5th against a lefty and Loney against a righty. At least that's what I hope today means.

16 3 is almost too young to appreciate or comprehend any bday or Xmas presents. Short attention spans and all that.

Word to the wise: Gift cards to Starbucks are not appreciated by 3 year old or their parents.

--

Man, it's going to be weird to not have Jason Elam kicking for Denver this season. I'll miss that guy. But I saw footage of his replacement hitting a near 70 yarder in an end-of-the-game pressure simulation yesterday. Not the same as in real game but was kind of impressive.

The D-Backs games are blacked out on DTV in Utah so the last three days my Dodger viewing has gone as follows:

Open Dodger Thoughts
Focus on lineup posts and subsequent complaints and forget all others

Get frustrated and dread to open next day's posts

Open DT
Focus on lineup posts and complaints

Rinse
Repeat

Joe Torre is making me want to cancel my State Farm insurance policy in protest.

17 Oh I agree, I think Jackson will be/is a good one, has a good approach as a hitter. I just wouldn't give up Kemp and McDonald for him and even if I would, Arizona probably doesn't want to give him up. Or maybe they do - I can't remember what the potential Texeira deal entailed but thought Jackson was offered up for him?

Happy B-day, Ichiban son.

22 Torre or no, we could all try to be different today...
If there are enough people wanting it we could try to have someone doing inning summaries and such, too.

Okay, off for a coffee run.

Let's see: how else can we make fun of Bob...

Oh, I got one. Black jeans went "out" with Seinfeld.

26
Crap. That was meant for The Griddle.

Happy Bithday!

Good luck to Mr. Ethier.
Seems just about everyone other than Torre prefers Ethier to start.

25 If I can change...You can change...Everybody can change!

/Cheering

23 i wouldn't give kemp and mcdonald for him either. i just doubted arizona would take that deal... as you do too. i wish he played 3rd for LA though.

28 - I can actually understand JP starting today, as I believe that he does well against Davis. A platooning approach would have had Andre starting yesterday. Though I don't like it, platooning might be all we could ask for from Torre, but I fear that we won't given get that, but that it will be a gut thing on who starts and Joe's gut says JP.

team I would enjoy next year.

lineup

Kemp CF
Martin C
Loney 1B
Ramirez LF
Ethier RF
O-Dawg 2B
DeWitt3B
Hu SS

Starting Pitching

Sabathia
Bills
Penny
Kershaw
Kuroda

It would be a fun team to watch...for me.

32 That's some freely flowing free agent finances. (Geez I'm bored today)

20 - Sounds right to me.

32 If I understand rightly, and the payroll drops to $75 million after this season, that could probably be affordable, if Manny and CC cost about $20 million a piece, that would take the payroll up to $115-- then McCourt would have to be willing to go up to $130 or so in order to get Hudson signed, no?

I think it is in the "honeymoon" stage right now. The fans have accepted Manny with open-arms, and Manny is saying all the right things. Everybody is happy! Manny & Boras both know that his stock has gone up in just two days time, and that his value in the free-agency market is like a shot-in-the-arm. Is it possible that McCourt did not anticipate the overwhelming reaction by everyone in obtaining Manny? Will McCourt's hand be forced into retaining Manny, and at what cost both monetarily and otherwise? What effect overall will getting Manny as a rental player have on off-season strategy? I know, live for today!

28 see yesterday's discussion. I don't think that is completely true outside these links. I think I tend to be less critical than most around these parts on the Dodgers. I must say thought that Pierre consistently playing over Ethier is really upsetting. This may be, for me, the most troubling trend to occur over the past few years.

who would everyone rather have for the next 2-3 yrs, Dunn or ManRam? Is is dependent on who the other two OF'ers are?

Young Weisman shares his birthday with Jim Gott, Sid Bream, and Kevin Elster. It is good to share.

4 It's burried somewhere back a post, but Kent will likely continue to 'protect' Manny against LHP. That is until Torre changes his mind again.

As sad as Ethier's situation is (I think the best we can hope for that no matter what happens in the offseason--a Manny signing, for instance) Joe wises up over ST and gives the nod to Ethier. I have a little more stomach for 2/3rds of the next two months of Pierre in Center than most (still, very little). But next year would just cinch it. At least he's wised up to Kemp--I can't imagine the revolt at a Jones in Right, Pierre in Center, Manny in Left line up to "make sure we get our gamers out there."

Gary Matthews Jr seem like a really crappy signing.

Happy B-day Weismans.

19 My instinct argues that JP is not an assett on defense in left field, although I am not sure how to interpret the data, or if there is enough yet. And his arm does not even discourage some runners from going from second to third on a fly. But this has been aired enough here.
Anywho, we have a pile of outfielders here and shouldn't consider Dunn until we get rid of a few, and I hope Ethier is not one to go. It should be Jones and JP. I think we've prooved that grabbing players and then worrying about what to do with the conflicts later is not a good strategy, at least with our personel.

Teixeira is up with the bases loaded down three in the Bronx.

It comes down to money. Without even a word passing between them, Torre knows he would be embarrassing Ned to no end if he had both Jones and Pierre on the bench while the Dodgers win the division with a buck-fifty outfield.

Teixiera slams!

43 - And he hits a grand slam to right. Angels take the lead. Rocket shot.

44 Anyway, as I was saying before the Angels distracted me...

It's sad, but the politics of management prevents Torre from fielding the best team. I'm sure Torre expects and probably welcomes Colletti's imminent firing, but he doesn't want to be seen as having pushed him, which benching all the expensive players and playing the cheap ones could be interpreted as doing.

From all Torre's quotes, it's obvious he knows Ethier is, against most pitchers, one of his three best outfielders. The subtext of his odd "Pierre deserves to start" comment the other day is, "but Ethier makes us better."

44 I feel like if Torre really felt that Ethier in the lineup instead of Pierre, he would talk to upper management about it, explain to them why the Dodgers have a better chance of winning the division with a young outfielder with power than slap-hitting Pierre, convince them to admit their mistakes, and move on. Of course, we're talking millions spent by McCourt here, but at the same time, I don't really see 'job security' as much of a factor for a first-year celebrity manager.

Therefore, Torre leads off Pierre and occasionally starts Andruw because he's veteran-happy and truly believes we're better off with them.

Nationals closer Joel Hanrahan just collected his first major league save.

It's a funny journey guys take in baseball.

Happy Birthday Weisman fils.

That pitch looked like a strike!

Nice save for Loney!

Jon, not long ago you referenced the old Johnny Bench paint commerical--"no runs, no drips, no errors."

You may not have any errors (drops) in those first 4 years, but no doubt you've had more than a few drips. :)

Maybe a few runs for whatever reason, too...

Not the Angels' bullpen's finest hour today.

Guess they were due for an implosion.

Wow! Casey saves a run there!

Sweet play by Casey.

Great snag by Casey Blake! Zoot!

And that was a great break for the Dodgers, smash hit caroms off the mound to slow it down, and he's out! Woot.

Now 14-9 Yankees in the bottom of the 9th.

Pierre is 11 for 26 lifetime vs. Doug Davis

Oh and 46 I agree.

Huh, I didn't realize Doug Davis went to San Francisco City College.

Be nice to actually get some runs off him for once.

Happy birthday, to the young Weisman.

The title of the thread made me think of this from Stella, when Michael Showalter is dealing out cards:

"...fours are floors, who's got four on the floor, I do cos I'm a TONKA TRUCK"

New streak conitnues for Bison!

46 - I guess its difficult to know what Torre really feels about JP and Andre, but as manager one would think that he could defend a platoon arrangement with upper management, but we have not even seen that to date, which leads be to believe that he prefers JP.

59

Some people here have even played against him. Not saying who...

Davis has a sick pickoff move so watch out for it.

61 - Broken yesterday, no?

Manny with 2 on.

63
Some here might have even gotten a hit off him.

60 Seriously? Very cool.

My g/f sort of roots for him because he recovered nicely from thyroid cancer (not that she's been diagnosed with that yet but is worried about it and it's reassuring to hear a great, easy recovery story). But she's allowing me to root for him to lose here today.

Manny! soo good!

Manny!*
Manny!

That was for yesterday. I wasn't here for the Homer.

Manny delivers. Bison speed and it's 1-0 Dodgers.

I think Manny will make lots of friends in his new town if he keeps this up

The RBI Machine is nice to have in our arsenal isn't it?

Manny being Manny.

Homer

D'oh

Another first inning run (how did we do this before Manny arrived? Wonder how much is due to the time that Bison was leading off.)

a happy Man is a very good Man

It's funny how casually Manny drives in runs. Ho hum, another RBI for Manny. No biggie.

Martin should really start seeing some fastball in front of Manny.

Hey-o, that Manny sure can hit a baseball.

So what's the deal - I thought Manny was supposed to cut his hair? Did they work out something with that?

68 - Best to g/f and you.

Blake's S has been flawless.

80 He'll cut it tomorrow. Like he did yesterday. And the day before that.

Kent is really having a tough time at the plate.

80
Torre realized where the power was.

Samson gets me lifted.

Kent should not be in the lineup. I thought the Old man rest in Sunday games?

68

Yes, he's actually a nice guy, too, so I was happy to see him recover from the illness so quickly.

81 - Thanks, man.

83 - Maybe it's a semantic thing they've agreed upon. He has to cut one hair every day, just one hair cut.

Kent is struggling but that also didn't look like a strike to me at all. Did I miss it or did the ump?

Loney clutch!

Loney being Manny.

89 - Cut fastball that may have grazed the outside corner. LONEY!

85 - exception for members of the 500 home run club? Joe Beimel has 500 to go.

89

It was on the black, in my opinion. I'll take it as a strike considering what Johnson got called as a strike in the first inning.

Nicely done, Crazy Eyes/Legs!

I'm sorry but Manny on the basepaths made me think of something else for a second: Predator.

89 - Gameday suggests the ump was giving Davis a couple pitches that at best could have caught a little bit of the black vs Kent.

Is this game in HD on prime fsn? I am trying to figure out why I sometimes get a full screen game in mlb.tv and sometimes I don't.

92/94 - Fair 'nuf. Admittedly, it's sometimes hard to see clearly when watching on MLBTV, too. A defensive check swing to foul it off would've been nice, Old Man.

that manny guy is good at baseball. we should get more players like him.

1.60 ERA for the Dodgers' pitching staff this home stand.

That's pretty decent.

I bet that ERA is higher in St. Louis, though.

Time-Warner has ended my Amish ways.

Which I got around for a while by using a BlackBerry, but work with me.

Jason Johnson is dealing.

101

Is this you, Bob?

101

I mean, is THIS you?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1212/1481356416_57cacd5afe.jpg

Vin is seriously jinxing us regarding Chris Young here.

104
That is me, English.

I guess Chris Young is the new Mike Cameron. Great defender, pop, tons of strikeouts, no batting average.

95
Manny has always reminded me of the predator.

Heck of an Angel/Yankee game.

97 - The game is in HD. MLB.TV is weird. Dodger home feeds are not in HD on MLB.TV. But, off hand Arizona, S.F, S.D and Colorado all have HD feeds on MLB.TV when at home. As do others. For whatever reason MLB.TV doesn't get or use the HD feed from FSN Prime or KCAL. Cannot explain why.

107

Let's hope he avoids the midair faceplant with a fellow outfielder. I still can't watch that clip.

107
Mike Cameron could take a walk which is what I thought C Young would be able to do.

Did they take away Andy's infield hit on Friday because the box score shows him a .000 batting average after this weekend?

Is everyone on the DBacks named Chris? It seems like it.

109 Hm. But you need MLBTV Premium for that anyway, right? (I just have a basic sub.)

110
Other peoples pain I can handle.

97 Firefox doesn't allow you to full-screen games unless it's Windows Media Player. If I'm correct, you're going to have to turn off some of the MLB.tv plugins that you might have installed (if you installed them).

112 - Yes for the better quality feeds and Mosaic.

114 Or use IE.

Johnson's pitching at Kaz Ishii-like pace here. This could be a 4 hour game and a 3-2 final.

Darnit, Russ!

Andy LaRoche just tied up the Pirates-Cubs with a two-run homer.

Quotes of note, thanks to Joe Biddle in today's Tennessean--

"I wish I was strong enough to do that when I played. I had to use a water cooler."

--Lou Piniella on Carlos Zambrano's breaking a bat over his knee after failing to execute a bunt.

And from the at least he's mostly living in reality dept.:

"I pitched just poorly enough that anybody that might be interested is no longer interested."

--Nats pitcher Tim Redding after allowing 7 runs and 10 hits in a loss to the Phillies just before the trade deadline.

and, for 21 , "Man, it's going to be weird to not have Jason Elam kicking for Denver this season. I'll miss that guy. But I saw footage of his replacement hitting a near 70 yarder in an end-of-the-game pressure simulation yesterday. Not the same as in real game but was kind of impressive."

..."I'll sleep very well at night knowing it's going to be 70 degrees with no wind when I get out there." --Elam on playing at the Georgia Dome for the Falcons.

We're going to need more runs. Johnson doesn't have much today.

yeah, I use Firefox on the Mac and installed the Windows Silverlight player and the WMP plug in to watch it, can watch it on full screen though it's kind of blurry. Kind of like watching a regular movie blown up to play in an IMAX theater. Well, not exactly like that.

Bob will tell you all about Silverlight if asked.

What the heck? JJ

Okay, who reminded Jason Johnson that he is Jason Johnson?

Why would you do that? WHY?

118 Hooray for Andy!

Too bad he can't hit at the major league level yet.

Darn it JJJ! A hit to the pitcher? Feh.

Yeah, we're gonna need the 'pen today.

Is Kuo available to pitch at all today?

I have no problem with the quality and streaming of the video. It is running on a HTPC hooked up to my tv, but sometimes I get full screen and sometimes I don't. All other teams tend to be full screen for me.

Yep, Johnson has absolutely nothing.

I miss Ethier's arm

#102 is solely responsible for this inning...

Thanks

Hit the panic button.

123 Looks like Rick Honeycutt re-reminded him.

Bullpen by committee today, methinks, with the off day today.

Er, off day tomorrow that is.

Off day for Jason Johnson today.

okay, mosaic is pretty sick. I am liking this

I hope they don't get a third run, because we know how Davis will probably respond after a shaky inning.

And I'm afraid I know how Johnson will respond. And we have a black hole coming up.
I hope they make Davis throw some pitches.

118 - Andy crushed a hanging breaking ball by Gaudin.

118- One down, twenty-four to go.

Good for LaRoche.

Thanks Davis.

Walking Angel Berroa!

You silly, silly man. Thank you!

134 Is it smooth for you?

Beimel's bobblehead is nice.

Wow, James Doohan was supposed to have his ashes shot into space.

The rocket blew up over the Pacific.

Bummer.

Oh--I didn't know Ethier was struggling.

Torre only plays the hot hand for young players. Veterans, on the other hand, know how to correct themselves if they go on a bad streak.

so, how often does Pierre come to the plate with a risp and less than two outs?

I want that .481 avg put into context

Bison! woo!!!

Matt Kemp also owns Doug Davis. Dodgers take back the lead.

How come JP rarely seems to hit it on the ground these days. (with all the depth of knowledge of "Ethier is struggling")

Nice, Bison! Well targeted hit there with the SS covering.

A run even with the black hole starting the inning off seems to bode well, doesn't it?

Cubs go back to back.

I would send Kemp to third--not much to lose.

141

Yep, perfectly smooth

I got the Dodgers in the main frame with DET/TB, SF/SD and PIT/CHC on the side

2 homers in a row for CHC. 8 to 5

Martin!

Martin! And now it's Manny time.

Watch your lips, Tracy!

145 Sort of true. Though Jones isn't getting that treatment. And DeWitt was given a lot of time to play through his slump (too much time some might say). I think your point is generally true anyway but not always. I'm fine with Pierre starting today given his history vs Davis but like everyone I don't get why Ethier is the odd man out right now in general. Hopefully that will change, when he, you know, "gets hot." ;-)

Kemp, Martin, Manny does deadly damage in back to back innings! Let's keep the hits coming, Manny!

Forgot about the don't refresh too soon with Mlb.tv rule

By the way, who decided the Sunday game jerseys for SD looked good?

Same guy that worked for Verizon and demanded to imprint the logo on the iPhone or no go?

#19- How is Loney substandard? The endless carping on the guy by some is wearisome. He's not Pujols obviously, but he is a productive hitter, He is leading the team in doubles,triples,near the top in batting average and rbi. It's not out of the question he'll develop more home run power as he matures. First Base is the least of the team's worries.

Pierre is a defensive liability even when he's not near the ball if he pushes Ethier to the bench. Meanwhile, Kemp is clearly the right lead-off hitter. It's just so frustrating.

This is quite the pitcher's duel today so far. Probably won't end up like the Yankees-Angels game today but ya never know.

They want no part of Manny here.

Wonderful.

What a slide by Martin!

Manny begin Manny!!!!!!!!

CHILLS! I GOT THEM CHILLS! Great slide by Russ.

JARBIFMR

Damn. That boy can crush and stuff.

Why did they pitch to him again?

BEST TRADE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, Riggan just took a fastball to the chest in the Rays game

157 Well, I think Ethier is our 3rd best outfielder too. I need to work on the tone of my sarcasm if I want to use it next time ;)

Between Andruw and Ethier, I'm not actually certain which one Torre will start more... I'm really really hoping Ethier.

Manny makes good to his promises. No more 40 HRs, only line drives to right field!

what a difference one huge bat has made for this lineup. Such a strong bridge between the top and bottom of the lineup.

So who wants to dress up in Predator costumes and parade around the stadium in honor of ManRam?

160
There is a small, but vocal of anti-Loneyists.

It's best not to argue with them.

Manny is a MUCH MUCH MUCH better hitter than I anticipated. I don't know if he can keep this up, but he hits the ball squarely EVERYTIME. He changes our lineup COMPLETELY.

That was a great slide by Russ - thought he was out dead to right.

167 Hey, aren't you supposed to be pitching?

Tamba Bay down by 1 in Bottom of 10th with runners on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out

170 Okay, I give in. I'm going to try Mosaic right now.

174
I left out my collective noun above. I was trying to find a euphemism and then left it out.

I'll go with "cabal."

171 Heh.
Oh and I guarantee you Ethier will be seeing a lot more PT than Druw at this point. That seems like a given.

Billy Buckner's in. Drive one right through his wicket, Loney!

I know a lot of people on this board feel like giving up LaRoche for a Manny rental was a bad trade. But at the very least, I hope those folks can enjoy watching the guy play these two months. It really is wonderful.

Cabal is sinister, but sort of belies the vocal-ness of the group, no? I'd say parade, because everybody loves a parade.

Er, Kent, not Loney. I forgot he moved back up today.

179

Was "consortium" considered?

181 I'm enjoying the heck out of it. Next year I'll be crying more about LaRoche not being ours. But I am certainly gonna enjoy Manny.

Back after long time, happy birthday to you son, Jon. How long untill they start to walk Manny?

Torre's love of Kent...

181 Even the biggest LaRoche fans like myself think this trade is fantastic.

bases loaded in Tampa Bay

Rodney is upset to say the least

181 I'm having tons of fun with it, honestly--I've liked Manny a long time--but I did feel a twinge when Andy went yard today.

179 I believe "junta" and "faction" would have been accepted as well.

OK, I was wrong. I'm officially not pessimistic about Manny anymore.

Also, Manny begin Manny is my favorite comment of the day.

Fell asleep in front of MLBTV in the top of the second, and woke up to see the Kemp/Martin/Manny hits. It's fun watching Kemp and Martin hit in front of a guy like Manny... I get the feeling we'll see a lot of RBI opportunities for our new left fielder.

182
I was thinking of going really old school and opting for "junto."

can ethier play second base? jesus if kent keeps looking like absolutle garbage up there manny isnt going to see any pitches to hit.

188. Did Colletti really do this trade? It´s so good, hard to believe that he did it...

both time Manny has been up, there hasn't been a base to put him on. As long as Kemp and Martin are getting on often enough, it will be hard to walk Manny. Would also be nice to have Loney behind him.

Rays tie it up. Bases still loaded with 1 out.

crawford singles to tie it up

kemp 2-2, martin 1-1 with a walk, manny 2-2, loney 1-1.

pierre 0-2 kent 0-2 blake 0-1.

it's not hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

i don't really understand the whole arbitration thing, is there anyway we can or would offer to resign manram after this year?

Not to mention all the excitement on every play to left field.

It's value added, I think.

195
Andre Ethier and Juan Pierre would make very poor second basemen if you ever looked to see which hand they threw with.

You like Mosaic now?

I'm sure Logan White had a say in the trade. Seems to be the norm.

When Nomar's healthy, he'll spell Kent at 2B often enough.

wow, Longoria could have taken that for the team and the win

dang, that was supposed to be a question. Too late to experiment with Nomar at 2B? I mean, he's a SS. Switch should be easy enough.

JJ looked really good in this inning.

And a swing and a miss. I can tune out when the Dbacks are batting, and still watch the game, then tune back in when Martin-Kemp-Manny come up again.

cool. JJJ forgot who he was again that inning. That works.

I guess we'll have to wait a month before Hu comes up. That's disappointing.

200 - Casey Blake is certainly not chaff.

I'm part of the spore cluster of trade-rejectionists, but I'm happy enough to watch Manny hit baseballs. He's really good at it.

201 - if the Dodgers make the playoffs, I can't see how they don't try to resign Manny. I just hope they also have the foresight to waive Jones and shop Pierre.

209 (Hitters in no particular order.)

196 205 I posted this link earlier--Bob Nightengale (USA Today) says Ned had nothing to do with it.

http://tinyurl.com/55hy2s

I had a nightmare that Ned went and signed K-Rod for 15mil a year

192 I think it's a nod to "beginning the beguine," whatever the heck that song meant. Yeah, that's it.

To be against the Manny trade, one has to presuppose that Andy LaRoche was ever, EVER going get a fair shake here.

If you love something, you let it go. He's in a better place now.

188- I ran into Kim Ng on the field on Friday and spoke to her for a while. She gave Ned all the credit for pulling it off. I don't get the impression that anyone was happy to see LaRoche go. I think they know he'll be a good big league player, but that you have to give to get.

FYI: Kim is one of the most intelligent baseball people I've ever spoken with, and, unlike a certain GM who regularly whips himself into a frenzy, she seems extremely even-keeled. She's going to be a heck of a GM some day.

Vinny is so awesome

Vin having fun at the expense of certain New Yorkers, sounds kind of funny, but I can totally see it.

Vin's snooty Newy York aristocrat accent is fantastic....

Walk-off walk for the Rays.

go Rays

walked in the winner

It worries me that Torre may insist to have Kent protecting Manny, instead of Loney or even Kemp.

214 hope so as well, i can't imagine anyone expressing interest in pierre though

214 hope so as well, i can't imagine anyone expressing interest in pierre though

Hah hah. Vin doing his best Jim Backus impression for his origin of the "trolley Dodgers" story.

203....

it was a joke....

Vin is certainly giddy today

Heres a question for you guys.

Who has more value as the 4th outfielder for next year?

Pierre with his pinch running speed or Jones for his defense.

Have to go with Pierre correct?

221
"Yes, the coachman took a whip to them ..."

That could be one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard Vin say.

Especially since he did it in a dialect.

Sometimes, I just love Vin. No, all the time. What an awesome northeastern accent.

230
Tell that to the people who call Dodger Talk.

Vinnie's speaking in tongues?

Seriously-I love this guy!

226 - I think it's a lefty-righty thing, and yesterday he had Loney in the five slot. Hard to know what he'll do in general but I can't imagine Kent will stick at 5 very often the way he's hitting.

RIP Alexander Solzhenitsyn

(Cut and pasted)

shouldn't that be infield fly?

LoneStar, how baseball arbitration works:

http://tinyurl.com/5629bp

Tracy stuck his arm out???

The frozen jaw! Vin just taught me how to do a new accent; for that, and everything else, I'll be forever grateful. Love ol' Vin.

235.

no thanks.

That was hilarious. Kudos all around.

Ringling Brothers on the infield.

Loney was safe either way in my view.

The umpires have this correct. Since Blake interfered with Tracy, he's out and no runners can advance.

244 - you misspelled hilaripus.

I'm fine with this result. Though I'd prefer Loney to be at second

I highly un-recommend typing on your laptop while eating salt & vinegar chips, by the way.

241 Yeah, looks to me like Tracy stuck his arm way out into foul ground to make contact with Blake when the ball fell well fair.

This is boring. I want Manny to bat!

240 thanks

It's like the offense is playing around Pierre and Kent. Not only do they not have hits, they have been completely unproductive. Even so, Manny makes a huge difference.

246 - yeah, but couldn't they have called the in field fly rule before the interference? which would allow Loney to advance?

246

Yep, no runner can advance on an interference call.

This is why I love baseball. The officials can stop and get the call right after the fact.

254 Nope, gotta have two men on to call the infield fly rule.

That's the Berroa we all know and tolerate.

As Vin says "On-hell" Barroa. The beginning of our black hole.

254 - good point. I wonder if Torre thought of that.

Tie goes to the dog.

219- The trade isn't the only thing I'm against. I can sustain objections on up to five codependent conditions.

infield fly has to have runners on 1st and 2nd or 1st, 2nd, and 3rd with less than two outs

254 infield fly requires at least runners on 1st and 2nd

It was a no-brainer on the interference call. A fielder trying to get to a batted ball in play has the right of way.

If Tracy were just standing around and not trying to catch the ball and ran into Blake, then it would be a different matter.

216. Thanks, Ken. If that really happened Colletti job is far from being safe, I thought that after the trade he´d get at least another year.

237. Now I understand. It worries that pitchers start to walk Manny because Kent isn´t a big threat any longer.

256 - really? I though you just have to have a potential force out

Jeez Molly, all your sports-related traveling and then you manage to see all of Lollapalooza, too? I'm tired just hearing about your schedule this month.

266
The only protection you get with just one runner on is that an infielder can't deliberately drop a line drive.

266
The only protection you get with just one runner on is that an infielder can't deliberately drop a line drive.

I didn't catch those last two synonyms of "Zero" that Vin said?

Just looked at Jackson's blog--he seems to think Jones is on his way back to Vegas.

Nice inning for JJ again! not to see him settle down.

272. nice*

KG, the IF fly rule is so that the IFer can't drop the ball and get TWO outs - one on each of the two runners who were forced to stay on the base.

so, if Furcal was healthy, would Pierre be starting?

271 If it was pure speculation, I wonder if Tony Jackson thought that they might have been talking about Manny.

270 Nothing? Nada? Zilch?

Pierre earn himself another start.

Ok, Pierre don´t make an out because I want to see Manny hitting in this inning.

For those of you that have to go to work tomorrow, I'll let you know how the game ends.

Good lord.

280 I know, seriously. I'm telling you, Johnson is doing Kaz Ishii today in the slow pace department. And those 1-2-3 innings are tough to come by. Zzzz. Wake me up when we're in the 7th tonight.

275 - Dunno, but he wouldn't be leading off, that's for certain.

Tough break. That was hit on the screws, enabling a DP on JP and Kemp. We really need a few more runs, or to make Davis throw more pitches--damn, short inning.

212 someone please explain to me how he isn't chaff. his hitting .345 in 30 at-bats is not sufficient proof.

222 et al... what's vinny been sayin'?

gen3, Davis is long gone.

285 He did this sort of William F. Buckley blueblood Northeastern accent. It was most humorous.

287

Quite a bit like Thurston Howell of Gilligan's Island fame, wouldn't you say?

He's OPSing over 800+ this year? An OPS+ of 121? He leads/ties the non-Manny's on the team in almost every offensive stat? I'm not in love with the dude, and I don't know if he was worth Meloan even by himself, but he certainly isn't on the ranks of Jeff Kent and Juan Pierre.

287 man. i'd pay for the archive of the game on mlb.tv if i knew i could get vinny, but that's not a guarantee.

288 Yes, there you go.

change-up missed its spot. Drew would be our pre-Manny HR leader. He's going to be scary good for a SS next year.

Unlike their 3-4-5 hitters, Drew is wearing the Dodgers out.

I have a feeling we'll be seeing the Borg very soon.

288 Introduces Icaros to 229 .

The Pierre playing because we don't have another lead-off guy like Furcal is the kind of situation that has helped Joe avoid making the tough descisions. But by default he is making it anyway and it is not good.

290 If FSN replays the game tomorrow, one could Tivo it.

It happened about six hours ago, in the second inning, I believe.

Not this series--not the Borg.

Jason Johnson looks like he's a man with a heroin habit.

Oh for the love of... it's only the 5th inning!?

Tough for JJ to come out here. He didn't pitch poorly today.

289 ok, i'll grant that he's slightly above league average. he's not a black hole like those two. the blake trade was still lousy though.

300 He didn't pitch quickly, you mean.

I don't think the Blake trade was lousy. I just think losing LaRoche is lousy (even though I love Manny) as we don't have a suitable replacement for Blake after this season, except the other Blake.

I still don't get the decision rule for the starting pitcher. So, you have to pitch five innings, but a closer could theoretically get the win with just one pitch.

One loud out.

Big out!

Replacing Johnson with Falkenborg is like throwing gasoline on a fire, discovering it doesn't put out the fire, and then throwing kerosene on it.

Jackson got under that one too much. {exhale}

301 I'm not much of a trade reactionary unless its involving a player I truly love, but I could never argue it being a slam dunk trade--and, if Blake ends up Type B, it'll probably be a loser.

Still, 121 OPS+ is a little bit better than "slightly above." I haven't checked it since the trade, but I believe his VORP was just slightly below Martin and Kemp's.

do you offer Orlando Hudson 3/$21 this off- season? Have a MIF of Furcal / Hudson / Hu?

800+ OPS last 3 seasons. Good ob%, stick him in the 2-hole, drop Kemp into the middle of the lineup.

303 - The Manny trade is awful if the Dodgers don't win it all.

298 Or one with diabetes?

Random thought

Shouldn't Kemp start wearing a helmet that is one size smaller? I mean, the whole point is for protection on a thrown/batted ball, but if it always falls off when he runs, what is the point?

304 - got to go five as a starter because that's when a game becomes official.

311 I'll go on to say that while this should be the response, I'd be giddy at even a divisional series win.

309 i'll say it again: his career OPS+ is 106, and he is 35 years old. i think 106 is probably closer to his true talent level than 121.

THE BORG!

My lord! This game is slower than a Theo Angelopoulos film.

Nice! thats what a reliever all about!

315 - trashing the best third base prospect in the league for a one-shot attempt at a divisional flag? That's an awfully low bar. But then, it also seems like Frank McCourt's bar is pretty low, too.

Brian Falkenborg is the new Giovanni Carrara.

318 - at least, it seems it takes as long to play as it does to say his name, anyway.

Thank goodness that was strike 3. Not because no more runs would be put on the board in the 5th or not because Borg was making me feel uneasy. I couldn't keep my eyes open, the pitching has been so slow. In fact, I'll be back in the 7th.

If Manny continues to rake, and the Dodgers make the postseason, McCourt will not let him walk.

He'd be crucified, and God forbid he pull a PR gaffe like that.

302 He didn't pitch quickly, you mean.

No doubt. When I was watching him I was like, I'm not going to spend a valuable Sunday afternoon watching some doofis PREPARE to pitch.

Manny being Manny!

MANNY BEING MANNY ON A SHOT!

No school in Borneo tomorrow.

Move over Golden God, you have another deity to join you.

There is a yellow alert for Manny Ramirez. This is a yellow alert.

"He hits it into Mannyville, which I'm sure will be the left field pavilion."

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!

You gotta be kidding me.

Uh.

Predator sure is fun to watch.

And can hit pretty well.

This is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.

this is ridiculous. Piazza came close, but it's more fun to watch Manny hit.

330 - Vinny picks up on the yellow alert.

I <3 home runs.

331

If he stays here, Mannyville would be awesome.

Manny Power!

Manny Love!

Manny has one triple this year, for those eager to see the cycle.

nice shot

Are major league umpires getting more and more lazy?

Giles was just thrown out at second on a steal attempt, but the ump made no signal.

To think 29 million for Jones/Schmidt next year. Ned is gone. Frank is thinking that's Manny's money.

324 Rake like that??

Frank'll have to cut some payroll even beyond the players leaving, which could only mean moving one of Kuroda, Penny, Pierre, Jones. Hey, wait, I'm starting to like this.

I'd like to thank the Dodgers and D-Backs for taking their sweet time through the first 4.5 innings so I could watch Dark Knight and not miss much baseball.

I got to see bomb #2 for Manny. What a shot.

Oh man, Manny. Fastballs, breaking balls - it doesn't matter with this guy.

Still trying to figure out 328 ...

I wish all of our players didn't "hit home runs anymore".

I knew this was going to happen. Absolutely no doubt in my mind the man would mash from Day 1, seemingly immune to a media frenzy and various head games that bury mere mortals.

Loney needs about 10 pounds of muscle.

LA loves this guy.

And, with that, Manny Ramirez has equaled Andruw Jones' season home run total in a weekend.

345 I'm glad you spent your time wisely the first few innings. This game is taking forever.

347- I botched it a little bit.

http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2007/01/my-greatest-home-run-call.html

345 No game should take longer than The Dark Knight, yet alone half a game. But it's good for ya - you can think Jason Johnson and lots of offense.

it's a shame that the Bums couldn't steal the first game of this series. Still, I'll be happy with a split in this series and being one game back for the stretch.

Ramirez is so popular I'm going to start referring to him as Mannyrail!

Someone alreadymade the joke, but we should bring back Gio to complete the joke. I think that was one of the first side-complaints I ever made about baseball--outside of what ESPN and the 5x5 stats would have you believe--"Man this guy is the slowest pitcher on the planet." I dreaded a ball fouled off when I was at the Ravine.

Kent might have had a good shot at scoring on that wild throw.

no error on that? Blake took an extra base because of it

352 put a good dent in his hit total, as well :P

I have a friend who watched The Dark Knight three times. Before the opening weekend ended. This game might take as long as the aggregate runtime.

Thank, not think.

354 Ah, okay, I had heard that story before. I still can't figure out if Norm Tonucci was from Borneo, or why he had a following?

There is only one person enjoying this more than Dodgers fans.

I'll give you a hint. He's an agent and eats small children while they sleep.

That Manny guy is the best I´ve ever seen wearing blue in my short dodger experience, since 2003.

345 Seeing the Dark Knight and returning in time to watch Manny hit -- that's an overload of awesomeness.

357 But Main Street's all cracked and broken!

364 - he's an agent and eats small children while they sleep

Dude, this is LA, that's really not much of a hint.

This picture sums up my day pretty well.

http://tinyurl.com/69syxe

367 - ??

Wow, I fell asleep right at the start of the game, and wake up to Manny hitting a bomb! Kinda of a cool way to wake up.

365 You should have seen the catcher that hit .360 with 40 bombs back in the '90's.

Nothing will ever be like peak years Piazza. It was astonishing.

How can they make him cut his hair after a weekend like this?

They should post the question on Dodgers.com. I bet it would be 90/10 for letting him keep the dreadlocks. It is, who he is.

squeeze here

368 - LOL!

So the D'Backs during the 4 games with the dodgers scored 2, 2, 2, and currently 3 runs. Is it safe to say that we effectively shut down their offense?

365
How did you miss Beltre in 2004?

368 Awesome.

Happy Manny - Focused Manny - Reminds me of Hot Wheels Power!

Welcome to Mannyville!

370 - uh oh.

"A town with money is a lot like a donkey with a spinning wheel. No one knows how he got it, and darned if he knows what to do with it"

364 i would've figured scott boras would at least wake them up first.

364 Chupacabra!!

waste. what good reason is there to not squeeze there with Berroa and Sweeney coming up? What do you expect them to do, exactly, Torre?

370
The line in 367 should be followed with "Pipe down, Marge, the mob has spoken.
Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!"

Sweeney is teh suck.

380
It's a mule with a spinning wheel.

What's Sweeney's OPU up to now?

386 - d'oh

Mark Sweeney is a pretty good hitter...

I'M BEING SARCASTIC UP THERE ^

Let us not forget Greenie's hay day.

Regarding my previous comment regarding the import of who is the pinch hitter.
You can scratch that one.

might as well have let the Borg hit there. Probably would have been more effective.

are good pinch hitters that hard to find? what's lenny harris up to these days?

372. It´s a shame I couldn´t see Piazza in blue, Greg. That time I even didn´t know about baseball or about the Dodgers, internet is such a great thing. Without it you can´t know anything about the MLB here.

Sorry, yeah I assumed everyone else had memorized the Monorail episode of The Simpsons, which is still my favorite next to the Planet of the Apes musical one.

Hey, I haven't been to Dodger Stadium too often to realize this, but other than homerun balls, when do the lights on top of the pavilion seats blink during a game?

396 *flicker

Mono... D'oh!

I run a fairly popular Simpsons message board, and its a wonderful time seeing fond memories of the Golden years instead of painful reminders of the shade-of-itself the show has become. Thanks to UD and Bob for this.

Sweeney's OPU is now up to .666, I believe.

396 - I believe after a win, also.

How about a 1-2-3 inning Cory? For all that is holy and good in the world.

Yay for Duke. I, of course, never got to see him play, but what a name: Duke Snider.

so why is there no school in borneo tomorrow?

so why is there no school in borneo tomorrow?

Sigh.

Or not.

395 - must... resist... temptation... to engage in Simpsons discussion.

401 I think they're 0-4 when I attended.

404 See/read the link in 354 .

Nice DP.

Double play!!!!! inning killer!

Of course Marge V Monorail was great.

It was written by Conan O'Brien.

Chris Young is horrible!

Nice! A 4-6-3 and let's get Young out to make this the rare quick inning.

412 - Yah pretty much all the Conan-scripted episodes are classics.

underdog a fan of Phil Hartman's best.

AKFCY

Man, Chris Young is strug-uh-ling.

What do you think the odds are that Manny becomes a Los Angeles star on par with Kobe before this year is over?

Juan being Juan.

Pierre didn't waste any time on the plate.

That was such a feeble swing by Juan.

Ugh.

You guys are taking advantage of Jon's absence by shamelessly engaging in Simpsons quotes.

I don't blame you. It's like a drug. But what's more like drugs are the drugs.

He gets overlooked sometimes, but Cory Wade has been a darned good "young player" for this team.

418 - he's going to need to hit home runs to win the division, the division series, the NLCS, and the World Series to get into the conversation. All while Kobe is leading Team USA to a gold medal in Beging.

Adrian Beltre wasn't on par with Kobe even in 2004.

416- Of course! All things Hartman.

Btw, did you ever notice how Billy West's voice work for Zapp Brannigan on Futurama sounded like Hartman's on the Simpsons?

422 How about Simpsons quotes about drugs? Kill two birds with one stone.

426 It was supposed to be played by Hartman.

419-421 He already got a hit and earned the leadoff spot for the rest of the week.

422 - just say no, my friend, just say no.

Manny needs to be signed next year just for the bobblehead possibilities alone.

8 pitch inning.

424 The Dream Team, the Redeem Team, the Redream Team.

I'd venture to say both belong in the top 4 or 5 of voice actors of the post-Mel Blanc era. Phil wasn't one to really change his voice as some of the other greats, but his quick wit and mastery of inflection is hard to beat.

427 Mark McGuire: Do you want to know the horrible truth? ... Or do you want to see me hit some dingers?!

428 - Ah! Of course. It was a great homage to him, then.

I actually didn't mind the 1-2-3 there, if for no other reason than to speed this freakin' game up so I can maybe, perhaps, leave here at some point.

409 thats hysterical

431 No! We want our Joe Beimel Bobbleheads next year too!

I asked this a while back, but I never saw an answer. Do other teams have the kind of security we have sitting on the field? Why did we start having 4-6 guys sitting on the field all the time?

418 I think he already is!

I also think I'm beginning to get the strategy. The more important the pitch hitting situation (say 2 runners in scoring position) find the guy with the lowest average (say .118) because he is DUE!!

And I should say we're talking about ""The Man with No Name, Zapp Brannigan."

438
Bobblehead#1: Beimel takes a rare at-bat, first 50,000
Bobblehead#2: Joe on the computer, first 50,000
Bobblehead#3: Joe at his hotel room, first 15,000 fans over 21.

Kevin Conroy is the best voice actor ever. If only because he voiced Batman/Bruce Wayne in all of the Batman: The Animated Series and spinoffs. For me, he was batman even when George Clooney and Joel Schumacher was mucking up the character.

The LF Pavillion shouldn't be Mannyville. It should be Goons Over My Manny.

442 Since Dodger Stadium is selling out 55,000 fans a game because of Manny, I'd better get to the ballpark early.

352 Someone said on DT the day of the trade that Manny should get to LA that day so he could be introduced to the Snakes.

They're very well acquainted with him now.

439 The city did a study a while back noting that Dodgers stadium was one of the more vulnerable sites behind LAX. Better to be safe than sorry I guess.

And wow, I hope Cory Wade's safe. Looks like he is.

442 Does bobblehead #3 have liquor holding capabilities?

That was a scare, what a stiff arm

Stupid Drew. Hitting well and now trying to kill our pitchers.

Kuo getting work on back to back days?

443 I'm not sure about best ever, but you're right, Conroy is fantastic. Watching the Dark Knight, I kept trying to patch over Bale's ridiculous "GRRR I'M A MONSTER" Batman voice with Conroy's definitive version.

447 What? Line drive off Corey Wade?

453 - Yep, a shot right at his ear practically, that he protectively got his glove on and deflected it. Looks like he's okay but they're pulling him for Kuo.

453 Yeah, but Cory Wade was able to block it with his glove. Torre pulled him to make sure he's okay, and put Kuo in the game right now.

448 Yes, like a J&R Liquor Lad whiskey bottle.

Kuo better get Hudson, bc you dont want a lefty facing Conor Jackson.

Jackson OPS's 1.122 off of them.

452
Bale's Batman voice was hard to take. It seemed so fake.

And 1 pitch gets us out of the inning.

I was in Taiwan last week, and baseball fans are about as enthused of Kuo and Chien-Ming Wang as Dodger fans are becoming of Manny. Although, Taiwan's ESPN still shows the YES Network every day. Newspaper sports highlights essentially chart the progress of Wang and the Dodgers' bullpen. Park must have been much blamed of allowing Kuo's inherited runner last night.

So top 5 cartoon voice actors ever...?

1) Mel Blanc.
2) Billy West
3) Kevin Conroy
4) Phil Hartman (and frankly the rest of the Simpsons cast)
5 and...?

Don't forget June Foray!

Identify as many prepositional errors as you can in my last post, and I'll give you a gold star.

Who's in line for the win? Falkenborg?

452

Agreed. It was the only part of the movie that was terrible. Well that and the fact that Maggie Gyllenhaal looked atrocious.

does anyone here use Delicious Library for the mac?

One may or may not like Family Guy, but Seth MacFarlane is an amazing voice actor.

Manny's at bat again!

So... what should Manny do? Go for the triple, or keep his 4-year streak of 1 triple per year?

465

I just purchased it.

447

I can see that I guess. I am always amazed at how easy it would be to sneak a gun into the stadium.

"Aha. A human being. One away."

And the fans applaud his strikeout anyway.

469

Have you started cataloging things yet, or is it still being installed/learned?

Worth it?

Post 470 will be Exhibit A in The United States v. Kevin Lewis.

I hope Jon doesn't have to testify.

471 Manny is as loved, as Andruw Jones is as hated.

Nice game, James.

#7 James Loney - Double - Oppo!

Does anyone play "Out of the Park Baseball"?

Bale's voice probably has some basis in the darker c. 1980s Graphic Novels, but didn't need to be taken that far. I was fine with it, but can see where people aren't.

I also think people against Maggie are nuts, but to each their own.

I used the delicious library trial when it first came out and was in love with it, and had I had the money in my account, would have paid for it. Something I just may sink some cash into once these two darn essays are done.

474 In an alternate universe where Andruw hits his 3rd homerun of the season, I'm sure fans will boo.

Yes! nice hit Casey!

I don't think the Dodgers worry about a gun being smuggled in as much as they worry about yahoos who go running on the field.

A couple years ago that was all the rage. That was really embarrassing.

So much alcohol do you have to consume before engaging in a foolhardy act like running on the field?

why does loney bat behind kent?

Blake - RBI Single - Oppo!

469

I'm a school teacher so I used it to keep track of all my books, videos and other things that I check out to my kids. I love the thing. By the middle of the year my kids have learned to check books and and out by themselves.

finally, some positive older role models!

477
Sam DC and I are in a league together.

Our teams aren't very good. So we tend to make trades with each other so we can have complementary weaknesses.

465 - haven't heard of it before, checking it out now

479 The fans will boo him if Andruw Jones hits a grand slam to win the world series. There's just no way that relationship can be saved.

And Berroa gets a hit!

HCK!

Everybody hits!

Yes, even you, Angel.

Finally, Kuo gets an at bat!

Russell and Manny seem like best buds already.

--

Snipes Sr!

Berroa - Single up the middle - Wow!

Time for a bat flip!

Well, that was oddly disappointing. I was waiting for a 3-run homer for Kuo. :(

...or not.

355 "you can think Jason Johnson and lots of offense."

363 "Thank, not think."

Reminds me of back in the Dark Ages in elementary school, when a classmate was asked to conjugate the verb think.

His response: "think...thank...thunk. Is that right?"

Russell and Manny seem like best buds already.

Pot reference aside, I can totally see Russ growing his own dreads this offseason.

I have a friend who has done a lot of voice work. He idolizes Billy West.

498 - Maybe it'll catch on and become a team thing. I can see it in '09 - Those Dreaded Dodgers!

486

Is it a yearly fee or just a one time cost?

Do they really want to be using Kuo on consecutive days. I mean I love it, but don't they suspect starting or long relief may be best for his arm?

I haven't tried Delicious, but Library Thing is $25 for a lifetime membership, and it's excellent. I've been using it since two weeks after it came out in 2005.

http://www.librarything.com

502 Off day tomorrow, I sure they feel the risk is worth it.

Well, I am purposely running my battery down to nothing on the laptop, so I will be seeing you all later.

It's a one time fee, free upgrades for life.

498 Totally. Since his hair and facial hair seem like constant works in progress, or he's willing to do anything, I wouldn't put it past him. He's like that bald headed guy magnet toy, whatever that was called.

Delicious Library is the winner, especially if you have a Mac with a built-in iSight. It will scan the barcodes and auto download all the pertinent information from Amazon.

Didn't see that coming Juan.

Bison Power.

Juan ran his heart out. Sometimes effort counts more than the result. Only players with effort will become the heart and soul of a ballclub.

Kemp being Manny.

That was beautiful.

Bison power! unleashed!

Bison Bomb - Oppo!

Not only does Kemp hit a HR, he assures another Manny AB! Bison!

Looked a good eighty rows deep in the pavilion.

BISON POWER!™

Speaking of basketball players, Sasha was at the bar in Manhattan Beach last night where my friend held his party. He was tight t-shirt douchey hat guy. I was most disappointed.

Atta boy, Bison!

Bison defeats Gigantor!

Vinny he runs like a locomotive not some weak wind!

No crossing swords, please.

519

I would love to party with Sasha for a night.

This Matt Kemp kid is pretty good

517
LOL.

It wasn't the Bison's power. It was Manny's bat rubbed against the Bison's bat.

Library Thing uses a CueCat to read barcodes.

Cycle alert canceled. Stand down.

4 HRs in the last two games, actually, Vin.

Manny being Kemp

Aw! Let him run for a couple more bases, Arizona!

HAHAHAHAHAH! Wow!

GaaaaaaaaaaWaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa??!!!?!?

OZUNA!!!

Oz to the wall in center! Triple!

What drug have I just taken?

Everybody is being other people!

Pabbbbbloooooo.

"Oh Ozuna, -here's- some power" I say oh jokingly.

Pablo Power™!

LOL. That was hilarious. Ozuna showing more power than Kent. And he gets Manny's triple.

Hey, Ozuna stole Manny's triple! Only Manny would have Dennis Rodman-ed into third.

Pablo being Manny.

543

Manny doesnt hit triples. I love the way Pablo stuck the landing.

That's Ozuna's 7th career triple, if you're scoring at home.

As Vin is trying to impress on almost impervious ears, yes Kemp is a complete package with great potential. A complete package with good potential is Andre Ethier.
Those who have seen him make a good play in right field and throw a man out at the plate know the pleasure of seeing a young player develop into someone who executes marvelously on both sides of the ball, and joins the nucleus of a good young team.

504 Good point.

This is an existential crisis.

544 Pablo generically being Manny.

544 What are you talking about? Manny has 18 career triples! I don't know what Pablo was doing thinking 3rd base was his queen-sized twin bed.

Damn this is fun. I'm jealous that those bastards in Boston had it this good for 7+ years.

Tron Tron.

If you bring in Andruw to field center, at least bring in Ethier's arm too. C'mon.

Tee-hee, the Mets got swept by the Astros.

Swap Ethier for JP and this team could win a lot of games in the next two or three months.

Oz showing what could be on D

I find it a bit surprising that "douchey" is acceptable around here, given that the first letter from that word combined with the word "bag" gets censored...

i thought the white sox were gonna trade Uribe, rather than lose Ozuna

Did Vin say that Broxton was warming up today? That scares me more than using Kuo in relief back to back.

559 - I didn't see it if he was.

555 Torre won't even swap them in the outfield. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if Andre resented doing anything besides start for a team that benches him in favor of less productive players.

559 - i think Broxton was gonna come in until the Dodgers added 2 more last inning

492 Manny and Russell got to know each other this past off season working out at Athlete's Performance in AZ.

C'mon Troncoso, it's 9-3, throw strikes!

That was enjoyable.

Back to within a game! Off to America's Best Fans.

That's what I'm talking about. Thanks, Tron Tron.

We win!

And we can all get on with our lives.

Manny's 8-13 with the Dodgers. Yikes. Batting Average may be an empty stat, but a .615 average isn't that empty.

hey, since Manny has already gotten 2 of the 2/3 wins he was supposed to be worth, should we trade him now.

That was a great latter half of a game. The first four innings lasted a day, and then blink, the game was over. Quite enjoyable indeed.

Even though many commentators here are out on a Sunday afternoon, the mood around here seemed a lot more positive after today.

Then again, that's usually what happens when you win...

Did someone play a cruel trick on me, or did Andruw Jones really accept a minor league assignment?

These next few weeks might actually be fun.

One thing the Dodgers will have to overcome to win the division is a bad home-road split the rest of the way.

The Dodgers have played 7 more home games and seven fewer road games than the DBacks this year.

ESPN says that Wade got the win. Woot!

Some very fun and funny comments from Red Sox fans watching the Dodgers/Manny after the Sox game had ended here:

http://tinyurl.com/5eoygu

573 - Definitely. And heading to St. Louis first where they have had plenty of trouble in recent years.

Having Manny with them now will help a lot. I'll worry more about their pitching on the road.

Did Boras make a special trip to LA to meet with Torre, or does the Boss of the Gloss live in SoCal...?

577
Isn't his office in Newport Beach?

264 - Bob. did you see the Romero incident yesterday when he bunted and then the ball hit his bat again will he was still in the batter's box? I recall that the ball hit the ground fair before it hit his bat again. I was wondering, if had been in the air, does Martin have a preferred right to catch it before Romero might hit it again would that be CI? Is intent an issue?

Yeah, Boras headquarters is in Newport Beach. And Andruw Jones should be in the minors so we can call Hu up to start at SS. Seeing Berroa's name everyday makes me wince.

My grand-uncle lives in Newport Beach, apparently not too far from Kobe's house. Which is kind of ironic because I have an uncle who lives close to Shaq's house in Orlando.

577 He--and for the next two months, Tex--live in a house somewhere in the LA area.

581 Bob Timmerman review of Irony request, please.

At the risk of over-exaggeration, is this the best trade the Dodgers have ever made given who they acquired, who they gave up, and the situation they were in at the time of the trade?

I am only asking. Anyone have one that quickly comes to mind that rivals this?

566 I said on Thursday night that I would be happy with getting a split after the first game loss and it did not look good after Friday's night game but in less than 24 hours Manny hits two homers, the bullpen does the job and the Dodgers win two games this week started by Jason Johnson.

584 Jon would say and I might agree that it was the Pedro Guerrero deal.

586 But did the Dodgers know what they were getting when they traded for Guerrero? Like they knew what they were getting in Manny?

April 3, 1974: Traded by the Cleveland Indians to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Bruce Ellingsen

Guerrero was 17 when they traded for him.

Quick Q:

Does Manny officially have 2 hrs because of his move to the NL or does his AL hrs combine with his NL hrs in his official line?

Just wondering.

To what, exactly, is St. Louis the gateway...?

I see people mentioning Jones in the minors.

Is there a link to this, or are we just experimenting with wishful thinking? I could be on board with that, maybe the hundred monkey thing, starts with DT posters, a couple more articles in the Times, and voila, Torre and Coletti get aboard!

589
Manny is officially 30 HR behind the NL leader Adam Dunn.

For instance, Mark McGwire hit 58 HR in 1997, most in MLB, but led neither league (34 in the LA, 24 in the NL)

591 Its just speculation at this point, but there was a closed door meeting between Boras, and Torre. http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/

Tony Jackson has the details.

590

The Gateway to the West. I think that Lewis & Clark started their trek in St Louis (?)…

Is there a chance Kershaw could get bumped into the bullpen? Whats his innings count?

595
He's at 115 IP right now. He has 10 starts at most left in the season, so he's well within range of the ~170 IP range allotted for him.

593 - Aha! Thanks, now it makes sense. I can't see why they wouldn't do that, seems like a win-win, he goes down and rediscovers his swing/confidence and we're in great situation come September! Well, that is, if he finds his swing...

Manny, Kemp, and Laroche go yard today. Awesome.Now if Ethier could get into the lineup it would be perfect.

Kinda interesting that Juan Pierre has a 8 game hitting streak but he only gets that one hit per game.

As stated above, St. Louis is the Gateway to the West. Underneath the Gateway Arch is a museum about the Louisiana Purchase and westward expansion.

The theme has changed a bit over the years.

However, Minneapolis calls itself the "First City of the West" and St. Paul is the "Last City of the East." When I was in the Twin Cities, I couldn't tell the difference, but I was told that St. Paul plows its streets betters and makes nicer corners.

St. Louis, for all of my complaints, isn't the worst big city in America. Cleveland won that title in a runaway. Detroit may also be ahead if you change the population minimum.

599
Pierre was 0-1 Friday night.

I've been under the impression that Detroit is much worse than Cleveland.

http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=13002

Well, Carlos Santana's still tearing it up. Eek.

Detroit is better because it has more places to eat when I'm hungry.

And the city didn't give me a metaphorical slap in the face when I arrived as Cleveland did.

Didn't know Andy went deep today. Nice.

Just saw this today:

East Fourth St. is a popular spot in downtown Cleveland, an alley lined with tables from onlooking restaurants. A recent renovation has resulted in an explosion of flowers.

http://tinyurl.com/boblovescleveland

600 But, really, isn't Los Angeles the worst big city in the America?

I mean, I've lived around here for most of my life and probably will never leave. There are many, many things I love about it. But just considering it as a city, meaning it's livability, quality of public services, costs of living and doing business, environmental factors, political culture, public safety, does it get any worse?

There is the climate. That's a huge plus, but we didn't do a thing to earn it except, I suppose, steal water to make it habitable.

I'm no Mike Davis, but I don't think there is a city in America with the sheer number and magnitude of problems of LA, and the utter inability to pull together to do anything about them. I could be wrong.

That's one of the reasons the Manny trade has galvanized the fans. We're not just talking about a team's salvation. We're talking about a whole city's. Manny's the best thing to happen to LA since I don't know when.

A lot of right can undo a lot of wrong.

With all its problem, there are plenty of people who come to LA (or are born into it) and Can't see themselves leaving. I don't think that's ever been true of Detroit, St.Louis or Cleveland.

I said it earlier this week, Phil Ochs and Randy Newman give us a bad wrap!

I know very little about football and less about the current situation. But I sense a very wierd and sinister situation with Brett Favre. Is there anywhere an article I could read for background on the matter, and I mean something like 10 or 12 columns in the New Yorker and not a few paragraphs with glossy photos. Before you laugh at the New Yorker for sports remember some of pieces by Roger Angel and others.

http://www.mlbnewsonline.com/2008/08/ned-colletti-is-not-genius.html

Looks like it was McCourt was GMing the Manny trade, and not Ned. And he picked Bryan Morris over Hu to trade along with LaRoche.

607 I've lived in Detroit, and although I've ever only spent a week in LA, it is quite obvious that Detroit is a worse city. Before I lived there, I used to love vacationing there because it felt so good when I left and made Indiana feel that much better. Bob's right though, they have very good food up there.

610 I had someone on the Dodgers tell me that Frank McCourt was preparing for the WBC press conference when he was pulled aside at or near the deadline and told about the deal. Outside of the baseball operations people, no one knew anything about this deal until it happened.

Now Bob Nightengale (not a huge fan of the Dodgers in his days as a local beat reporter) may have his sources but I think stories like that one on that site always have an agenda behind them (like wanting Ned Colletti to get fired).

594 - Lewis began his part of the journey from Washington, DC to Pittsburgh where he floated down the Ohio River to Clarksville, Indiana (Territory). There he met up with Clark. The town was named after his older brother, the Revolutionary War General George Rogers Clark. St. Louis was the last town of any size on the Mississippi going northward and was clearly considered to be the jumping off spot into the vast West. At the time, it had a population of about 1,000.

Nice of the always melodramatic Tony Jackson to let us know, after their win today, LA is "still in this thing."

--

610 Cool. We get to enjoy Manny mashing and then Colletti's firing after the season's over anyway.

Detroit is the most depressing city I've ever been to in my life. It's truly sad, many parts of it look bombed out though I'm sure there are other parts that have since been rebuilt. But as blah as Cleveland is at least they've given it some life downtown. But I can't say anything good about Detroit other than that it has a very interesting cultural history.

614 So we either believe what Ned Colletti said on his interview that day where he received a call from Theo Epstein at 10:00 a.m. (we'll assume PDT since we live in that time zone) and wanted to know if the Dodgers would be interested in Manny Ramirez and it went from there. Or we believe a story on a side called Fire Ned Colletti who is quoting a national baseball writer who spoke on the radio.

608 - LA gets off easy from Mr. Newman's sharp wit. Try being Cleveland or Baltimore.

61 - Better not put that to a vote here.

618 - Meant 616.

615. I find Atlanta and Houston to be much more depressing than Detroit, but that's just because they lack almost everything I like about a big city, while containing just about everything I hate about cities and throwing in god awful weather.

620 Atlanta and Houston have god awful weather, but Detroit doesn't? Maybe hockey fans would agree, but I think the average American would rather have the warmer climate.

Doesn't the Midwest have bad weather for all but about 3 months of the year...?

I sat under the Duke Snider sign in left today, in the shade luckily. Manny is focused in the field. Boy, what an unbelievable hitter. I got giddy watching Kemp and Pierre standing together in center while Kuo came in and warmed up during the 6th. Matt was obviously demonstrating the Manny level complete shoulder turn to Pierre that we all witnessed again in the 5th. I almost stood up and yelled "Do it Matt, do it!" And it didn't take Matt long. With the pressure transferred away from the young guys now, they may really take off.

As far as Manny's hair cut goes, I think it was happening post-game today--or not at all.

Here's hoping we get a haircut you can set your watch to.

That would take a huge set for Ned to come on all the local radio shows and take credit for the Manny deal.

623 Memory a bit faulty; Kuo came in in the 7th.

622. I can deal with winter with no problem, it is obscene humidity in temperatures consistently above 85 that bothers me more than anything. Plus, there is just the fact that those two cities are a the complete antithesis of everything a city should be.

603 Santana is a 22-year-old in A ball. If he can keep up that performance Double-A, then he's probably for real.

There are going to be some sluggers on the free agent market this offseason...

Tex
ManRam
Dunn
Burrell
Delgado
Ibanez
Bradley

R.I.P Skip Carey

Dunn's like the white elephant.

If one wants to get another bat for next year, probably consider 3rd, SS or 2nd.
Martin and Loney are too good values to think about replacing. An outfielder will probably cause this organization to force Jones or Pierre into a permanent position.
I personally think SS is a position where good defense like Hu or DeJesus is more crucial than offense. So that gives us 3rd or 2nd as a position to add a bat. Any ideas?

631 i don't suppose that's your polite way of saying he's pale and fat, is it?

632 any ideas? yeah...

if it were me, I'd be talking with Boras right this minute to find out what it will take to keep Manny beyond this season....

and then I'd agree to it...I haven't seen the team or the fans or the city this excited and upbeat in many many years...

he has done what all the other free agent signings were intended to do...take the pressure off the younger players...you will see them all take off now...the pundits will be shocked by the result

the price will only hurt for one year, then Schmidt, Jones, Kent, Lowe, Furcal, Nomar all come off the books

and I don't care about year 4 when he is 40....we are players and winners and contenders in the meantime

631 - From wikipedia: A white elephant is a valuable possession which its owner cannot dispose of and whose cost (particularly cost of upkeep) exceeds its usefulness.

I don't know, sounds more like Juan Pierre. Except for the valuable part. Or Jason Schmidt.

I'd take Manny if it was a three year deal, without worrying too much about costs. A world title will alleviate the contract costs. I'd also give DeWitt a shot at second or third. I don't know where I'd go for the other spot.

I think, though, the key for the Dodgers this off season is moving one (or preferably both) of Pierre and Jones.

the key is keeping Manny, period...if the team is winning and energized, Pierre doesn't bother me, Jones on the bench for one more season doesn't bother me...

I want the Dodgers winning, that's it

One concern with signing Ramirez long-term beyond his age and inevitable decline is his Mannyness. Sure, he's hustling down the 1st base line now, as he plays for his last big contract and is probably genuinely excited to be in LA. But 2 years from now? Once he's bored, and the fans have stopped giving him a standing ovation for catching every routine fly ball to left?

Dodgerland is in love with Manny. They shouldn't make any long-term financial decisions before they have to.

I do love watching that guy hit. But I hope he's doing it elsewhere in April, unless a 2-yr contract is of interest (which I doubt).

Manny will get paid by Frank McCourt, who is an admitted BoSoxphile. This is the same guy who paid for Schimdt, Andruw Jones, and Juan Pierre. And he doesn't even like those guys. Frank McCourt already has a man crush on Manny, and he'll pay to keep it.

He'll need to keep Manny to keep the Dodgers relevant, to get on the Times front Sports page when its Sept, and Oct. But also when its March, April, May, and June. With the Lakers run to the finals, you'd think the Dodgers took two months off instead of just playing atrocious baseball. Keeping Manny pays off in attendance, revenue, and free press. It just may cost us signing C.C. in the offseason, which might mean a resigning of Lowe, and not trading away Penny after picking up his option. But that is a tradeoff I'd take if it means Manny stays in L.A. for the next two or three seasons.

Tim Brown seems to note that it was Frank McCourt who brokered the deal with the Red Sox.

The Dodgers and Ramirez's camp (he is represented by Scott Boras) agreed to void the option years on Ramirez's contract – they were worth $20 million each in 2009 and 2010 – which will make Ramirez a free agent after the season. Ramirez, a 10-and-5 player, could have refused the trade, but, at that point, he'd worked too hard to relieve himself of Boston. He'll also receive another $1 million for being traded.

The clincher in the deal came when Dodgers owner Fran k McCourt got on the phone with Red Sox power-brokers.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-mannytradedodgers073108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I don't mind the Mannyness at all, its Hollywood, he fits in

you tell Pierre (since he is playing CF as long as Torre is manager) the he has to cover from right center into left field, and you tell Kemp to cover right to right center...

you make allowances to keep that bat in the middle of our lineup

if he wants long hair, let him

if he has his quirks, let him be

just keep that bat in our lineup...the kids will learn to him and learn how to approach each at bat like never before...between him and Mattingly....

keep Manny, whatever the cost

638 - Pierre and Jones getting at bats, with or without Manny bothers me. Ethier should be the everyday right fielder with Kemp in center and Manny in left. It makes no sense to keep a guy who can be a legit .300 hitter with 20 HR potential on the bench in favor of the two other option.

642....learn from, not to....

643 then you have to get rid of Torre

he invigorates our whole lineup like Bonds used to for the Giants

616 That's fair. If that's truly the only source for that rumor then it could very well be garbage. Still, it's not the first we've heard over the past few weeks that Colletti hasn't had the same kind of power he once had. A lot of that, too, comes from sometimes unreliable sources and probably also not trustworthy. But you have to wonder at times, if the perception of Colletti not being fully empowered isn't being disputed enough from the Dodger ownership. No? Anyway, it's all not worth wondering too much 'til the offseason since nothing will change much until then, if it does.

Manny has never played in the new Busch Stadium, but in 5 games in St. Louis he's hitting .333/.375/.400 (5 for 15 with a double and a walk).

He also played in St. Louis for 2 games in the 2004 World Series, going 3-8 with a HR and 2 walks, which pushes his career St. Louis totals to .348/.423/.522 in all of 26 PA.

647 But then there's 641 . Ah, I don't know what to think any more.

645 - the waiver wires are there to be used, and used they should be.

I'm actually in favor of keeping Pierre as a fourth outfielder--as long as he's kept as a fourth outfielder. If his agent starts whining, then a trade is fine, but I think he does add value off the bench--just not trying to get too many starts.

A magical way to rid ourselves of Jones--and Torre coming to his senses--combined with a Manny contract is what I'd like to see. That may be way too many things to go right, but, I can dream. I'm a Pacers fan.

Anyone know if any of the Dodgers-Cards games will be on ESPN? Or are we stuck watching 'em all on MLBTV? (For those out of LA.)

For everyone advocating getting rid of Joe Torre, who's the better option? The kind of managers we hire here always tend to hire managers who favor vets over younger players. From Jim Tracy, Grady Little to Joe Torre, the best manager from the three of them is Torre by a mile. While we rage at the younger position players not getting their due(LaRoche, and Eithier), Torre seems to be able to handle his pitching staff much better than Tracy, and Grady did. Our bullpen is filled with young players like Cory Wade, Kuo, and Broxton, while both young starters Kershaw, and Billingsly were both handled well. Maybe its because Torre just trusts the Dodgers pitching over the Dodgers hitters, but I think we should give credit when its due.

641 Also, we find out why Manny has an extra million dollars to his name.

Part of me wants to believe that Jones is going to call it a career after this season. Part of me believes that some team will take a flyer on the scrappiness of Juan Pierre for a couple of prospects. Part of me also believes that I can slow down in time after seeing the cop with a radar gun.

652
Looks like no ESPN, but all games are on Fox Sports Midwest so the Cardinal feed will be in Extra Innings. Not sure how MLB decides, but the Wednesday game is on KCAL so probably no Dodger crew for that one.

653 - I'm not advocating getting rid of Torre. He is the best manager of the last three, probably because he actually played in the bigs. And he's like everyone else with his biases. What frustrates me is that when evidence is presented to show his bias is wrong, he doesn't seem to even consider the evidence. It's like a conspiracy theorist who looks at evidence to refute his theory and sees it as only additional evidence in favor of his theory.

ok, so when Torre was at his peak during his playing days, who was in the lineup around him?

I'll answer my own question....the leadoff man for his team when he was the batting champion was Lou Brock, a speedy outfielder...

rightly or wrongly, he remembers Brock's speed and stolen bases and wreaking havoc...

that is why he does what he does in regard to Pierre

658
Lou Brock, Ted Simmons, Steve Carlton were the other stars of the 1971 Cardinals, which was Torre's MVP years.

He also played along guys like Hank Aaron and Warren Spahn.

658
With the Braves, he had Hank Aaron, Eddie Mathews and Rico Carty with him in the lineup. In St. Louis, he had Lou Brock, one year of Dick Allen, and starting in 1971 a young Ted Simmons.

Obviously we keep Manny. We've only had a couple elite sluggers in the past 20 years and we saw how that worked out.

"Value" players are fine, but a team full of "too good a value" guys doesn't necessarily translate into victories.

Someone will inevitably reply, "sure, but a team full of overpriced, broken down players doesn't translate into victories either".

While that is a true statement, it is non-responsive because we're talking about a healthy Manny Ramirez. We got lucky he fell into our lap.

659
Torre had great years with the Braves where mostly Felipe Alou led off. He barely ran at all.

658 - when he was with the Braves: Felipe Alou, Hank Aaron, Eddie Matthews. When he won the MVP in '71, there aren't any names I recognize, except for Jose Cruz (but that's because I saw his son play).

664
You don't recognize Lou Brock???

659 - Matt Kemp has 26 stolen bases to Pierre's 37. Kemp also has a higher batting average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage. Kemp can be the wrecker of havoc on the base paths while also hitting home runs. Kind of like Soriano or Rickey Henderson in his prime.

664
Or Steve Carlton or Bob Gibson?

665 - oops, over looked Brock. Thought I was looking at a different year when I saw his name. My bad on multiple levels.

667 - wasn't looking at pitchers, just line up

669
Joe Hague is coming over to your place to refresh your memory.

666 Torre sees Kemp as a masher, not a speedy leadoff man

If Torre is doing things based on his memories from the 1960's and 1970's, that is hilarious.

Come on, Joe. People change. Things change. Hairstyles change. Interest rates fluctuate.

when did Juan Pierre get intentionally walked this year?

668
I was about to mention that Brock was in the front row behind home plate for tonight's ESPN game! :)

671 - can't he be both?

672 I have news for you, everything any of us do is based on learned responses and experiences throughout our lives. Why should Torre be any different?

673
In the 4th inning April 25. Pierre was batting 8th.

http://tinyurl.com/juanibb

675 he can, I am just saying that is how Torre sees him

Look, Apparently many people forgot that Torre sat Pierre on the first game of the season and batted Andre 3rd. He did so because he believed Ethier was the best hitter in the lineup (3rd hitter = best hitter). I'm tired of this endless talk of how Joe hates Andre Ethier… and Joe is an idiot. Joe's trying to win games and he thinks Juan is a table setter, as he was on Saturday night. Juan even got some "extremely rare" credit for it:
http://tinyurl.com/236hur
see Timm's two cents 03Aug08

676 - because it would mean Torre stopped learning some time around 1978.

676 Yes, and when those things are proven false, we change our perspectives.

We should sign Rickey Henderson again. I'm sure he can post a higher OBP than Juan Pierre, and the two facts that we would be carrying six outfielders, and screwing up Rickey's Hall of Fame date would get the rest of the world hating the Dodgers like they should.

672 Speaking about hair...

Torre may have also revealed the true reason behind the push for his new superstar to clean up the locks. Remarking how difficult his days managing the Yankees were with Manny playing for their biggest rival, Torre said he "lost a lot of hair playing against him." Revenge tactic, anyone?

http://sportsblogs.latimes.com/sports_baseball_dodgers/2008/08/post-3.html#more

680 or you could look at it another way, that he hasn't experienced anything since then to change his mind re: speed at the top of the lineup

677 - ah yes, the mythical 3 walk game for Juan.

679 - I don't even know where to begin.

681 not everyone is an enlightened as many of us here

672 Excellent "Top Secret" reference

685 I don't think one needs to be "enlightened" to realize that, perhaps, assumptions about baseball 40 years ago might not be correct.

There aren't many fields that haven't been improved upon in 40 years. Rock and Roll excepted.

Don't make me roll my eyes at you, Greg.

Joe Torre is so old, he was old when he was 60 years old.

688 That wasn't very fair of me. I'll knock it down to thirty years.

The 1970's had good stuff.

:Something-or-other about Grank Funk Railroad and your local library here:

Juan Pierre isn't happy...

http://tinyurl.com/5764t7

"I Want to Work For Diddy" - a new show on VH-1, and the final sign of the pending apocalypse.

679 Apparently "table setter" means something different than getting on base a lot and scoring runs frequently. What does it mean?

691 Are you * kidding me?

*You can figure it out.

Oops, that was for 692

Long live Grand Funk.

692 I know he's a gamer and a good guy, so I'm assuming that's an article about how he feels badly that Ethier isn't playing these days. If not, I'll pass.

692

"All I've ever done was be Juan Pierre," he said. "I don't know why, for some reason, they're just sticking it to me this year. I applaud the move. Any time you get a chance to get Manny Ramirez, you get him. But from a personal standpoint, it's putting me in a tough position."

Well, there goes the little ounce of love I had for a 4th Outfielderish JP. Goodness Gracious.

Juan apparently trying to channel his inner Ricky Henderson, as well.

698 Sticking it to me??? Would he like to trade places with Andre Ethier?

Juan Pierre has to entice some other team this august. Please!

When baseball players try and talk physics:

"I always dive like that," he said. "I used to practice that on the beaches in the Dominican. If I dive low to the ground, I lose velocity. By throwing myself forward, I can keep my momentum."

694 Touché, "table-setter" was a bad choice of phases on my part. That defines a player more like a healthy Furcal... (as does "run producer"). Look, I'm a much bigger fan of Andre than I am of Juan Pierre, I just think the constant talk of Joe and Ned loath the Ethier, Kemp and Loney's of the world goes too far sometime.

Juan Pierre's a punk.

Yeah, but would we have nearly 5000 comments since Thursday without that talk.

692 - Well, at least he isn't walking salty.

Juan Pierre is without a doubt the most selfish player in the Dodgers clubhouse. He should be thankful hes getting his fat check he will never earn and keep his mouth shut.

By the way, I read a Zona Dback blog tonight, and someone said:

So with the Manny trade, the odd man out for the Dodgers outfield is Andre Ethier?!?!?!

Should we send Joe Torre a thank you card?

Vomiting.....

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=29110

Cory Wade has a 0.99 WHIP. Just how ridiculous is that?

Also, Pablo Ozuna plays What is Love in his post game interview.

http://sportsblogs.latimes.com/sports_baseball_dodgers/files/pablo_ozuna_az4.mp3

703 Point well taken. A baseball manager is a public position. Thus, I think Torre should answer legitimate questions about his lineup selection with well-reasoned responses. Not b.s., spin, talk of intangibles, and anger towards reporters.

Juan Pierre deserves a better team that will play him every single day. I think we should make that happen. It's in his best interest.

Meanwhile, poor Andre Ethier sits back with his sunflowers seeds.

Think we can trade Juan Pierre to Houston? I think they're still trying to win the NL Central. We should help them by giving them JP.

And I can't believe I'm saying this but at least Andruw Jones isn't being a whiney little punk about his situation. He totally lost his ability to play baseball, but he isn't a punk like JP is.

Juan Pierre - he's a team guy. Ha!

709 Why?

I mean that would be great and all that but I don't know of a manager or coach that is going to do that.

They consider that to be something only for their use and information and frankly don't think they owe the media and/or the public any reasoning for their choices.

Joe Torre - The former NYC Spinmeister - Joe hasn't lost his touch.

We Want Ethier!

Its going to be difficult for the Dodgers to win the division if Torre doesnt play the right players.

Kent better heat up soon bc I think Manny's gonna get a ton of walks starting Tuesday.

Kent's unlikely to heat up.

703 I don't think that Torre hates Ethier. I think one of two things is true:

1. He actually thinks that Pierre is a better baseball player than Ethier.

2. Despite knowing that Ethier is better, he thinks that playing Pierre is better for the team - that Pierre's balance of skills and weakness somehow help the team more than Ethier's.

#1 is, of course, nuts. Ethier is better in every way except baserunning. And his advantage over Ethier in baserunning, except in certain specific situations, just doesn't matter very much.

#2 is a logical fallacy. A better player helps the team more than a lesser player. Role players and complementarities matter in sports that have team production (football, soccer, basketball, hockey). Baseball has no team production, with the minor exceptions of turning a double play or a relay throw. Every baseball act is an individual act. The game is contested between groups of individuals, but there is absolutely no way in which the whole is not precisely the sum of the parts.

"Teamwork" is a coaching shibboleth, but in baseball, its only possible relevance is outside of the realm of game-play performance. I'm willing to accept that pulling together, and liking each other and offering encouragement - being a good teammate - can matter a smidge. But there is no evidence that Pierre is better in any of these intangible ways than Ethier, and the burden of proof is on the side of anyone who would claim that such intangible contribution to run-scoring or run-preventing can come close to trumping the huge amount by which Ethier is a better player than Pierre.

/repetitious rant

713 Because it's the right thing to do. Because it's good for business. To earn the respect of media and fans. I don't agree that no managers or coaches are honest and forthright. In the long run, people will end up treating you like you treat them. If you think because you won world titles with the Yankees, Dodger fans will blindly accept poor decisions, think again. We care about the here and now, not 2000.

711 And I can't believe I'm saying this but at least Andruw Jones isn't being a whiney little punk about his situation. He totally lost his ability to play baseball, but he isn't a punk like JP is.

Jones's performance has been so epically bad that even he can see he deserves to be benched.

I don't blame Pierre for not understanding how bad he is. He's only a very slightly worse version this year of the lousy player he's always been, and that player got $44M a couple years ago. He's asking "what the heck changed?"

I blamed Colletti, but now that Colletti has provided Torre with 3 obviously better outfielders (maybe 4, if Young were given a chance), I blame Torre.

He has a loaded OF with Ramirez/Kent/Ethier. He should stop insisting that Pierre is good, and focus instead on his real remaining problems: 2b and SS.

Since the Colorado series, here's how the Dodgers have pitched last 10 games:

2 runs
0
0
7
0
0
2
2
2
3

Dodgers are 7-3 in the games.
Giving up 1.8 runs per game.

If you think because you won world titles with the Yankees, Dodger fans will blindly accept poor decisions, think again.

Casual Dodger fans have been accepting poor decisions forever. Its not going to change. They'll still show up at DS no matter who plays OF.

This was proabaly discussed at length earlier today, but I just read Tony Jackson's piece about Joe and Ned talking to Boras about sending Andruw to the minors. I am being serious, can someone explain to me why Boras would be consulted on this issue. I don't get it. As long as the Dodgers are continuing to pay Jones what input can Boras have?

719 - Pierre makes the same mistake most reporters make in evaluating him. He compares Juan Pierre to Juan Pierre, instead of comparing Juan Pierre to the rest of the Dodger outfielders.

All I've ever done was be Jon Weisman, but that doesn't make me a starting outfielder.

I don't think Pierre intends anything bad by it, necessarily. I think he's just that self-absorbed. Jones, Ethier and Kemp aren't viable outfielders to him with their own credentials, such as they are or were – they're inexplicable punishments. Anytime Pierre has to prove himself, he becomes Job.

719 Oh man, you scared me for a second with the idea that Kent was now in the outfield mix. Can't even picture that...

So, what else is happening? How's everyone doing tonight?

722 Because under the CBA, Jones has to agree to a re-assignment and from what it seems liek these days, that kind of decision doesn't get done without the agent being involved.

722. Doesn't Jones have to accept a demotion to the minors? That would explain talking to his agent.

722 - Well, on the theory that Jackson's speculation is true, the Dodgers need Jones' permission to send him to AAA. So they go to Jones' hired hand and make the case for why this might be good for him. If Boras is on board with the move, it's much more likely to happen.

722 Isn't there a contract issue here? Because Jones can refuse to accept an assignment to the minors if he's not on an injury rehab. Or am I wrong?

Kent in the outfield would be brutal, and likely to punch a guy in the stands just because he could. ...You know what, I would pay to watch that.

723 Jon just wrote in his concise way, what it took 5 paragraphs that I decided not to post to say.

Or what BH and Jon said.

That tears it! I'm gonna go watch Mad Men now.

And what GoBears said.

I seem to type as slow as Jason Johnson pitches.

Weekend honeymoons are great, but you can't base a long term relationship on it.

733 It worked for Dharma and Greg. Or maybe it didn't, I never did watch the series finale.

704 and 707. What is the point of the personal attacks on JP? By all accounts he is not a punk. He is a nice fellow and he is a team player. JP should not be on this team and it is a shame Torre doesn't play the better player but the personal attcks on JP are just silly and serve no purpose.

733
But if you are on the honeymoon, haven't you already committed to a long-term relationship? :)

I'm just messing with you; it was a good line.

722 Because Jones will likely accept being sent to the minors if Boras tells him to.

724. Oh, oops! Sorry about that man. Take an aspirin. And I proofread!

723. I totally agree with you. I didn't mean to imply anything different than that.

723 Just to add, I think you can liken it to his comment about his belief that he had a contract to play everyday.

I mean there wasn't a clause in his contract that guaranteed that, but in his mind the Dodgers are paying a certain amount of money to him to play baseball for 5 years and the only way he knows how to fulfill it, is to play everyday.

If there was an award for the employee with the most integrity and work effort, it might go to Juan Pierre, in a lot of lines of work, you could do a lot worse than have someone that is going to give his best effort for the salary you are paying him.

629
Looks like a lot of DH type hitters are looking for work next year.

Also quoted in the Pierre article:

"It's a good soreness, though," said Proctor.

Dodger quotes are getting to the point where we don't even need punchlines anymore. It's like they've been reading too much of The Onion.

733 - Jones must be a drunk wedding in Vegas. And you know you need to file for divorce but you keep trying to convince yourself that it'll work out. So, you keep trying and trying and trying and finally you send your wife back to Vegas but you need your therapists permission first before doing it.

741 What's wrong with that? Seems like he's just talking about how you feel after a good workout.

739 I almost added the following but I'll add it now.

But unfortunately, baseball isn't one of those jobs.

Work ethic is like the trophy for "most improved" or "team spirit" in youth sports.

740
This is not a personal attack against Juan Pierre but he is the type of worker you find in every company when a person is going lights out but accomplishes very little. They get noticed and they get promoted and the company suffers.
As long as they stay in the stockroom moving their fast feet and staying away from the heavy lifting of a company's bottom line, they are not very dangerous.

744--In the real world though, production is more important than effort & often decisions are based on the bottomline, not intangibles.

Pierre picked the right line of work that values intangibles over production. He couldnt do that in the "real" world.

Thanks. I didn't realize Jones' consent was required. I wish I had a clause like that at work.

I love how delusional Slappy is w/ the quote of "If Andruw starts hitting I'll probably get sent to the bench" ...Um hello ...Ethier is completely an after thought. As Greg Brock said in 695 Are you * kidding me???

745 Using Bill James Historical Abstract method of ranking players, I live off my peak value. Kind of like the Pete Reiser in my field. Or Smokey Joe Wood.

746 Never mistake activity for achievement.*

*I just made that up right now!

I kind of agree with JP's comments. He is who he has always been. Its no suprise that he plays the way he plays. The outrage is that he is on the team and playing in front of the better player. These problems lie with Ned and Joe. Did anyone expect JP to come out and say "I suck, I should be sitting."

Speaking of Bill James, I read that he pushed for the Red Sox to not pick up the options for Manny Rameriez. Of course, that could just be idle speculation from the Boston papers, but I wonder if he truly thinks that Bay and I guess another starting pitcher can approximately produce what Manny gave them and would give them in the next two years?

752 Perhaps had he said one of those whatever helps the team win is fine by me comment, it would have been taken more kindly.

If Manny keeps up his current pace, I guarantee he won't be a Dodger next year. Frank won't pay that much. If you want Manny next year, root for him to come back to Earth.

750 To get in the hall, you have to be legendary for a medium time, or great over a long time. Do you get in?

746 Yup.

751 Amen, Coach Wooden. I almost quoted that line in my rant yesterday about how he seems to me clearly to NOT get the most out of his abilities, because he has failed to improve things that seem like they could be improved (reading fly balls and not throwing like a grandmother with sprained wrist (and here I mean technique, not results).

749 . Sadly, he may not be delusional in excluding Ethier from his thoughts. Torre seems to have made 3.5 into 4.5.

Chris Hansen on Dateline just doesn't seem as excited doing stories on U.S. customs as when he is doing stakeouts in houses.

If you want Manny next year, root for him to come back to Earth.

If Manny came back to earth, he wouldn't be Manny.

Dunno if this was posted earlier but more from Ken Rosenthal (so... grain of salt), via MLBTR:

"The Dodgers will have an opening at shortstop in the offseason and could re-sign Rafael Furcal. They like his work ethic and what he's brought their team, offensively and defensively, during his stay."

Maybe we should coin never mistake efficiency for sloth. Ethier doesn't work as hard as Pierre because he doesn't need to. He's just naturally better.

Chris Hansen missed his true calling as Dr. Phil knockoff.

753 It's entirely reasonable to say Jason Bay is just as valuable as Manny is. Manny's in a class of his own when it comes to bad defense.

756 Speaking of which, I just heard the ESPNews guy refer to the late Skip Caray as the "legendary broadcaster, Skip Caray."

Legendary? He was around for a long time, and was very good, and funny (if not everyone's cup of tea). But legendary?

Maybe they meant that he only existed in stories, like King Arthur. Or the Minotaur.

756 I don't think I'm HOF material. I'm a Bobby Grich in my field with a few career highlights favorably remembered by the fans.

Working hard is for people that have to work hard.

I'd like outstandingly productive slackers to get a little credit once in a while.

764
He was the best announcer that sounded like Kermit the Frog, I'll give him that. Actually, I kind of liked Skip over the years. In the 1990s I had a bit of a Braves' backlash so I was biased in my dislike of Skip. He grew on me.

I heard his radio call of the final out of the 1996 World Series (a foul pop to 3B Charlie Hayes), and his call was something like, "The Yankees have stolen the Braves' championship!" Classic.

754. That would be nice but I think he thinks his playing is the best thing for the team. Anyway, his cooments just don't bother me. Maybe I'm just happy to have split. Check back tomorrow after a few hours at work I'm sure I'll be back to my bitter, pissed-off self.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2008/07/tradeability_signability.html#more

Wow, looks like The Nats and Bowden isn't going to sign their first draft pick in time.

Q: Speaking of pitching/progress, has any been made with (first-round pick) Aaron Crow in negotiations?

No.

Q: Do you think you'll have him signed by the Aug. 15 deadline?

Don't know that.

We're working hard trying to sign all the guys that are unsigned.

766
I'd like outstandingly productive slackers to get a little credit once in a while

You rang?

Does a teacher give the kid with a 70% average in math a higher grade then the one with a 90% because he spent more time studying?

If it wasn't for Skip Caray, I would have never known when Beastmaster was going to be on. For that, I thank him.

771 It depends. How hot is his mom? Is she single?

There are too many variables.

Speaking of scrappy players, Juan Pierre hasn't drawn a walk since June 6th. A pretty impressive feat.

774 - Well, he was on the DL. 29 games to be exact and the longest stretch of his career.

773 I'm so reporting you, GrandFunk.

Ground to second and:

1. Run like your butt is on fire, only to get thrown out by half a step: Juan Pierre. Man does he hustle! Start him!

2. Run hard, but just naturally not as quickly as 1, and get thrown out by a full step: Andre Ethier. He needs to look like he cares more. Bench him!

3. Stop to tie your shoe, then meander toward first base like a post-Thanksgiving Dinner tryptophan drunk and get thrown out by 45 feet: Manny Ramirez. Boy, he's QUIRKY! Give him $100M!

773 I knew there was a reason for parent/teacher conferences.

774
I was going to remind you to remember Pierre missed 20 games, but then I noticed that his walkless stretch has reached 123 PA. That's a lot.

Baseball tonight:

"Manny's second HR tonight in L.A. Ties the TOTAL number of HR by Dodger left fielders this season."

That's astounding. We're going to win this division. We haven't had a player like Manny Ramirez in our lineup for at least twenty years. I honestly can't think of the last time we've had that kind of bat in a Dodger uniform.

765 I wouldn't be upset if Bobby Grich were to make the HoF. Maybe you meant Joe Carter? Or better - Jack Morris?

Very good player, not HoF worthy, but with some career highlights (in the World Series) that make some people demand their elevation.

773. I understand this. That's why the young kid has a better chance of getting a better grade. By high school their Mom is too old to pull a good grade for the kid.

777 - More like:

1. "Throw the ball right down the middle."

2. "This guy is a really solid hitter so be careful and hit your spots."

3. "Good luck and we're all counting on you. He can hit anything you throw 400 feet. Boy his hair sure is impressive."

780
Piazza, Sheffield, and Shawn Green say hi.

Well, he was on the DL. 29 games to be exact and the longest stretch of his career.
Coincidentally, he hasn't drawn a walk in the last 29 games that he's played in. That's Shawon Dunston-esque.

782 Sometimes that young highschool kid has a hot older sister who is single.

I'd put Grich in ahead of Jim Rice, that's for sure.

784

So does Adrian Beltre's 2004 bone spurs.

785 - Mhm, that's what I meant.

Does a teacher give the kid with a 70% average in math a higher grade then the one with a 90% because he spent more time studying?

Only a computer nerd (mother's basement, underwear, never played, yada yada yada) would think that's a good analogy for baseball.

This is baseball!

Meanwhile in Packers land, everyone looks like they're shell shocked. Man, the whole Brett Farve thing is just sucking the life out of everyone there.

780 I heard that earlier, too. But it sounded wrong or skewed to me. Hasn't Andre Ethier played LF at some point this season? Do his home runs not count? Or were they all hit when he was playing RF? I guess if I'm too lazy to look it up then so is ESPN.

780
Did everyone miss the 2004 Beltre?

Even Sheffield was not that long ago and before that it was Piazza. Come on people this weekend was nice but I hear people talking like they have never seen a Dodger hit the round thing hard before.

782 Some of us appreciate the elegance of the older ladies. 35-40 is wheelhouse.

Wow, was I late on that one. And I even forgot Greenie.

Tomorrow is my first day of my real job... Don't worry, I'll figure out how to access DT at the office.

792
The non-Manny LF have hit .256/.313/.317 with 17 doubles and 2 HR.

When Ethier has played LF, he hasn't hit much. He does have both HR though.

779 A leadoff hitter with that kind of walk-less stretch - that is an abysmal stat. I don't recall seeing that in recent articles about Pierre.

Baseball tonight:

"Manny's second HR tonight in L.A. Ties the TOTAL number of HR by Dodger left fielders this season."

That's astounding.

That's not astounding. That's what you get when Juan Pierre starts all year in LF. The two must have been in Ethier or DYoung games.

Actually, I guess I'm a little surprised Ethier didn't hit more than 2 - did he hit all of his as a RF or PH?

Everyone forgets the 24 homers of Paul LoDuca.

780

Dont get carried away, Sheffield and Piazza in their primes were just as good.

794 Especially in summer dresses.

784 You're seriously going to mention Shawn Green in the same breath as Manny Ramirez? Honestly? Maybe the Dodgers have been bad for so long because our expectations are so low.

_793_I stand corrected. Beltre was....impossibly good. But, let's be fair, that was a bit of a fluke. True?

780 - Kal Daniels laughs at you.

796 Knock 'em dead, Nate.

First capitalization, now a real job. He's all growns up. I think I'm going to cry.

797 Ah. No dingers for Delwyn in the LF slot? Well, anyway, it's a sad amount. Manny powers up that position an incredible amount, no doubt.

Wait, I'm watching the end of Mad Men. Why am I here?

800
I remembered the other one though. :)

803
The 2001-2002 Green was awesome. 91 HR and two 150+ OPS seasons.

802 Summer dresses were in last night in MB. Goodness gracious. Gams on parade.

796 What is a real job. My last real job involved stomping trash in a bin in the rain with 5-6 more hours of work ahead of me.

If you mean wearing a tie and answering to Mr. Purcell, well that's different.

803 .297/.372/.598 is better than Manny this year.

Complete list of LAD 150 OPS+ seasons:

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/pbEf

"To be honest, if we're winning and Andruw starts hitting, I'll probably be back on the bench," he said. "That's that power they went out and got in the off-season."

--
He went on to say, "so hopefully Andruw doesn't start hitting, you know from a personal standpoint". He also added "thank god they don't notice that Ethier is hitting because that would make the situation worse from my perspective".

804 Kal Daniels! Thank you for the mention of that name, I always loved his batting stance.

Manny Ramirez is the best right handed hitter of his generation not named Alex Rodriguez. Be serious, Dodger fans, and celebrate! We're going to win this division and we're going to begin to demand more than the mediocrity we've been accustomed to. Just watch.

809 The South Bay, enough said.

798. It's not Pierre's fault that pitchers only throw him strikes.

Which would be a fine rejoinder if he were hitting .380.

Really, imagine a good hitter who only saw strikes. We'd see someone bat .400 again.

780 Although my job here at DT has become obsolete, once in a while someone makes me come out of retirement.

Most HRs in a season:

Manny 45 (twice)
Shawn Green 49

814
Manny Ramirez is the best right handed hitter of his generation not named Alex Rodriguez

No Pujols?

786. Very good point!

817 Your honor, I would like to disqualify that witness, he cannot be objective about anything regarding Shawn Green. :)

820
LAT will now use Shawn Green's batting gloves to slap you and challenge you to a duel!

Manny's second HR tonight in L.A. Ties the TOTAL number of HR by Dodger left fielders this season.

Andre Ethier says, "Huh?"

a quick look at Ethier's game log shows that 3 of his home runs came as a left fielder (there's a few more where he played left later in the game and i can't tell when he hit the home run)

814 How do you define "generation?"

Look, we all agree that Manny Ramirez is an outstanding hitter. There is nobody on Earth who thinks that the 2008 Dodgers with Ramirez in LF instead of Pierre (since we're comparing stats for LFers) are not vastly improved.

The problem is that the cost of getting that improvement has been a huge decline in another OF slot (swapping Pierre in for Ethier) and serious costs for 2009.

So who exactly are you arguing with?

790 No basement, played through h.s., limited computer knowledge. If the Bears signed Favre, would you want Grossman to start because he worked harder or got to the practive field first. Or on the other Bears, is Tanner better than Kelly Leak because he wants it more? Those analagies are ever worse.

Hey how many HRs does the CF spot has with Pierre vs. Kemp?

820/821 At Fri's game daughter was telling me how mucch she missed him. Inside, I was a little relieved he's not playing and disappointing.

823 I don't think I'm "arguing" with anyone. I prefer not to argue with anyone. I'm trying to describe the scope of Manny's greatness as a hitter, a reality some people may forget.

In any event, Ramirez would also be a huge improvement (over Ethier, or almost anyone in MLB) in 2009 if we can sign him.

I firmly believe: truly elite players almost never make it to free agency. GMs have a massive interest in resigning popular players. Because star players rarely make it to free agency, teams need to capitalize when they have the opportunity to lock-up a truly elite player.

OK I have to call it a night--daughters watching tivo-ed Hannah Montana episodes. Just kill me. Nite all.

822
Baseball-Reference.com breaks down the stats by position under the "splits" page for each player. Only 2 of Ethier's HR were hit as a LF.

824 I was keeeeeeeeeeeding. I completely agree with you. Perhaps you're not familiar with the standard curmudgeonly disdain for objectifying baseball statistics?

Sorry if my sarcasm was too opaque - sometimes it's hard to tell in writing.

Oh, and you don't have the right Bears.

At some point, when the chips are down and we're inside the red zone and backs are against walls and other cliches come into play, Ethier will start. And then people will ask why, if Ethier is playing now, he wasn't playing earlier.

And Torre will skirt the question and talk about onions on belts and when he used to call nickels "bees." Because that's what old people do.

822 ,829
Here's a link to the Dodger LF stats through Saturday:

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/Qqyr

823 Who else are you thinking of in the "right-handed bat of his generation" category other than A-Rod? I fully admit I may have overlooked a winner, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.

Generation = roughly the same career span as the player mentioned, Manny. I'm not trying to be too specific, and I'm trying not to run afoul of Rule 6. I recognize that everyone knows Manny is good. But people don't recognize that we need to sign this guy for next year! :)

Finally, someone mentioned above that Green has had some excellent seasons. Indeed he has. 49, 42, 42, 35. Great seasons. Then he hit 28 HR one year. Very respectable. Then 22. Then 18. Then...

Shawn Green had two max-money years in a Dodger uniform where he hit fewer than 25 HR has a 1B.

Manny Ramirez has hit 30+ HR in something like 13/15 major league seasons. The comparison is unfair -- to Manny. While Green had some great years, he can hardly boast the sustained excellence of a Manny Ramirez.

829 - i suppose it's possible that i miscounted

Five bees for a quarter, you'd say.

I can keep this up all night if you want, GF.

827 I don't think anyone here is going to argue that Manny Ramirez is not a future HOF and as someone who was there yesterday, I can say that he added an excitement that was not there when I was there the weekend before.

But, there he is not 28 or 30 or even 32. He is a 36 year old left fielder who has never been known as even an average defensive player in a league without a DH and in a division with some big outfields.

Also, if everything remains the same, you still have 4 other outfielders under contract or team control in 2009. Two of them are probably unmovable without significant financial consequences.

So if he is a two month rental, even if he leads the team to the playoffs, his cost is considered too high for that term.

So that is what you see here being discussed back and forth.

Personally, I like the excitement but I understand the issues being brought forward by others.

833
But people don't recognize that we need to sign this guy for next year!

No one is denying Manny is great. The problem is that the Dodgers can't simply sign him for next year. Manny will be looking for a 4-5 year deal. I'm not saying it would be good or bad, but you have to take the longevity of the contract into account rather than just say "bring him back."

835 The boss does not look kindly upon Simpsons quotefests.

Unless he uses a quote himself, and then the floodgates are opened.

The Dodgers were lucky not to be down in the first inning. As I said earlier, biggest surprise this week, winning the two games Jason Johnson started.

827. I also wouldn't bet on Ramirez being anywhere near his peak level for the duration of his next contract. I'd try to sign him for 1 or 2 years (provided Jones and Pierre are gone) but probably not 3, and definitely not 4.

No one needs anyone to "describe the scope of Manny's greatness as a hitter." We know. We also know his atrociousness as a fielder and baserunner, and his apparent willingness to go to half-speed if he's unhappy.

Plus, as has been argued (with evidence, even), he's great, but not out-of-this-world great. The Dodgers have had players just as great for short times, recently, and all Ramirez would be at this point would be a short-termer at the wrong end of his career.

Now, if Ramirez could somehow make Pierre a better hitter, then we'd have something. Maybe he could borrow Kenny Lofton's under-butt-fire-lighting cookbook.

I have no problem with signing great players to contracts knowing that their last year would be bad.

Lowe's four year contract was always going to be ugly in the fourth year. It's a miracle it hasn't really been that bad.

If Pedro could have given the Mets two good full years, the four year deal would have been worth it.

For a random 2/5s of a Bee, I'd be ok with Manny at 4/80, realizing I''m getting probably 1.5-2 great years, 1 good year and one sort of sketchy year. Even if he's about .1 OPS better than Kent, I'd be happy with the star quality he brings--admitting full well this is me being a "mindless" baseball fan, and knowing the money is probably better spent elsewhere.

This is the silly optimism I expect Icaros to completely shake loose--somewhere underneath it all, I'm still a kid not understanding why Hideo Nomo had to leave.

Is Jason Johnson staying around? Seems like a guy we could send down for Penny.

My Ipod has selections from one the Simpsons CDs. Nothing like hearing Elvis Costello singing "Allison," and then hearing the line "where the Saints of football play."

830 Knew you were. Cal?

He won't pitch until Thursday, but how about Clay K with the 12 straight scoreless innings??!!

This will be the 2nd time Kershaw has faced an opponent twice. The 2nd start against the Rockies didn't go so well, but some of that can be chalked up to Coors.

Thursday will be interesting, hopefully in more ways than one!

841 But then he post links to great moments in "Taxi" history.

845 Ah, good. Sometimes it's hard to tell.

Yup, Cal.

828 When they start speaking the lines before the characters do, is it time for them to watch a new show?

I say this as someone who could spend and has spent a lifetime watching "I Love Lucy," "The Simpsons," and "Seinfeld."

836, 837, I appreciate your posts.

836, you wrote: "So if he is a two month rental, even if he leads the team to the playoffs, his cost is considered too high for that term."

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you meant to say that you believe his cost is considered too high for that term. Correct? And that may be fair.

However, I know two things that are factually impregnable:

1. I don't care what Manny Ramirez costs if he turns a team that may not have been going to the playoffs into a playoff contender. As a fan, I have that luxury.

2. Low-cost, young players (Kemp, Ethier, Martin, Loney) are a boon because they allow teams to lock up good players and spend additional funds on impact players. Manny Ramirez is precisely that kind of impact player. While I recognize that past contractual mistakes are a liability, they shouldn't bear on whether to sign Manny Ramirez. Andruw Jones is, for all intents and purposes, a sunk cost.

Although this is just my opinion, I believe Manny Ramirez will be highly productive for at least 3 more seasons.

I'd offer Manny/Boras two years $40 mil. If you sign him however, it would probably have to be Hu/DeWitt or Abreu up the middle instead of Furcal/FA (Ellis?). This is where the Jones, Schmidt, Pierre signings will bite us in the butt.

If we'd have given Piazza a seven year deal, he'd have been trash in the last two years.

Would that deal be bad? I doubt that.

After all, everybody here wishes we'd have kept Piazza, and seven years would have done it.

849
I don't know why, but I have an irrational hatred of "I Love Lucy".

840 Who is "out-of-this-world great"? I'm wondering.

848 Longshore or Riley?

851
Just a guess, but since a condition of Manny waiving his no-trade rights was for the Dodgers to not pick up the two $20m options, 2/$40m won't get it done.

My guess on what gets it done for manny: 4/85 or 3+1/90--with the option being some sort of Club/PA Opt In Clause.

854
Pujols and A-Rod, to name two.

851 I'd rather have Manny + Hu any day of the week, particularly if we're going to have our favorite "table setter" getting ABs. IMO, we have desperately needed that power bat for years.

And, really, if we're going to pay Furcal 15 million, I think we'd get more productivity out of Manny at 20. It's a debatable point, but I can't think of a single objective commentator who didn't think that Furcal's contract with the Dodgers wasn't preposterously expensive for a player of Furcal's caliber.

858 You think Pujols or A-Rod are going to become available any time soon?

852 Very good point. I'd submit that Piazza was more valuable, though, because he gave you so much more offense relative to his position.

We could have signed A-Rod last year, and all it would have taken is a mere $300 million dollars!

855 It would be uncool to fill up Jon's blog with CalThoughts, so I'll just say that it depends on whether Tetford thinks Longshore's recent lousiness was due to injury or not. If not, then Riley.

852 Yep. 861 Isn't Piazza considered the greatest offensive catcher of all time? So, yeah.

862 You don't think A-Rod was worth it?

853 Well both "I Love Lucy" and "The Honeymooners" got a lot humor from the fights between husband and wife with the underlying but never shown fear of actual physical abuse.

Plus, I think you had kind of grow up with being on everyday at on local tv for the last 30 plus years.

I don't like a lot of episodes, its more like pancakes, if I order pancakes, I know what to expect, if I watch a Lucy episode, I know what to expect because I have spent a lifetime pouring maple syrup on them.

856 Perhaps. But I think there were other issues in Beantown, too. Could Manny realistically play LF three years from now?

861 Regfairfield would tell you that Piazza's slightly above league average offense was swallowed whole by his atrocious, cringeworthy defense by the mid 2000's.

16 million for Piazza of 2005 was terrible. But completely necessary to sign him.

865 Only the Yankees could give A-Rod that kind of contract. Everyone else lives in reality. That, and I don't know if we're able to sign Joe Torre if A-Rod was here. And I think I would have clawed my eyes out if I had to see Grady Little try to manage a clubhouse that just blew up on him.

863 Jon allows occasional college sports talk (both Marty and Eric Stephen fill outnumbered here). But since he is Stanford man, I guess you take a risk bringing up Cal.

Just don't call it the University of California, period. Bob might be protest that.

Plus the trade of Piazza killed Frank Sinatra. Don't let the chronology fool you.

If I were a betting man, I'd guess the Dodgers re-sign Manny for four years, 72 million dollars (or thereabouts).

He rakes next year at a 140 OPS+ clip, making it worth it.
Second year is around 128-132, making it acceptable.
Third year he plunges to 120.
Fourth year is bad.

That's worth it, to me. And he puts butts in seats, raising revenue and payroll.

For the first time in a while, a Dodger game delighted me more than a Colts game.

Granted, it was a terrible Manning-less, meaningless preseason game where the Pillbury Throwboy got some TV time. But still, kudos to Manny.

870
There are many University of California alums here.

Many.

And many of us attended different campuses.

And we're all part of one big happy University of California family.

873 What?! Jim Sorgi is the next Brett Farve!

872 You doubt Boras' powers more than I, but this is pretty close to what I think

375 My brother and I were "Back Home" last weekend and if they had them, would have bought an authentic #12.

They didn't, so we settled for 21 and 87.

869 Signing Torre was a good thing? Toree was the only manager not named Grady on the market?

873
If Nick Harper wasn't stabbed, does he run back the fumble? He missed one cut back!

Plus the trade of Piazza killed Frank Sinatra

At least he had nice seats at the yard.

I know from experience (in Chris Farley bus driver voice)

874
And we're all part of one big happy University of California family

Except for UC San Francisco. I hate that school.*

*I don't really hate that school.

879 Probably, but I would have felt dirty for winning the game on such an atrocious interception reversal, and we likely would have lost to Denver if our protection continued to be as bad as it was that game.

http://zip.4chan.org/sp/src/1217831314144.gif

Dancing Papelbon

880
But...you can imagine what it would be like if I did.

874. Kumbaya, baby.

881
I hate those stuck up Merced students. Always lording over there "we're so new! Look at us!" status.

Almost makes me want to go up to Merced and flaunt my UCLA and UC Berkeley diplomas.

Then I remember that those kids are stuck in Merced. Who wants to go to Merced?

884 Good. Great. Grand.

Everybody on the bus!

By the way, I have re-shuffled my schedule, and am looking forward to cutting everybody up with my dazzling array of garbage breaking stuff at the DT picnic.

I just hope somebody actually remembers to bring a Wiffle ball and a bat.

885 Not trying to be antagonistic, honestly wondering: was there something more to that "of his generation" comment? Can you think of other RH bats other than A-Rod? I think Pujols bears mentioning, but he's just getting started. Otherwise, I can't think of anyone.

And Pujols and A-Rod aren't available. As I said before, players of that caliber almost never become available because GM's lose jobs over it. I don't think this type of situation is analagous to overpaying for Furcal. If you overpay for a top-10 slugger, my atttitude (within reason) is so be it.

Reasonable minds can differ over how long Manny will continue to rake. But he sure looks good this year. Again, I'd go to 3 years.

886 But is it better than Cleveland?

886
I had the good fortune of sitting at a blackjack table in Vegas with all seats occupied by my family members. My uncle, feeling jovial, asked the dealer where she was from, and she said Merced.

My uncle offered this joke:
Q - What did they do when the Fertilizer Plant in Merced blew up?
A - They called in the National Guard to stop the looters

We laughed, but the humor was short lived as our dealer, now stone-faced, proceeded to clean us all out.

890
Since Merced is not in Ohio, it must be better than Cleveland. The entire state of Ohio has been declared a "hot zone" by me. I don't enter unless wearing full biohazard gear. Or with the promise that someone will feed me.

889 The thing is that Manny isn't an elite player anymore. When he was putting up OPS+es in the mid 150s to 180s it didn't matter that he couldn't catch, his bat still provided enough value that he was more valuable than almost everyone in baseball.

Now that he's declining (and will continue to decline) things like his horrible defense start to matter. Manny is still a great player, but at this point his value is more on par with Matt Kemp's than Albert Pujols. If he can keep it at that level, then yeah a four year deal would be great, but I don't know if he can.

886 Did she do it painfully by just having you all bust out or did she just keep drawing to 21?

Making a laugh at a dealer's expense does not usually lead to winning at the tables.

Harvey Pekar is spinning in his grave! (If you know, if he was dead. But still.)

894
Mostly she kept getting 20 or 21, but she would also creatively mix in some busts for us as well.

893 Isn't Manny's OPS+ like 140 this season?

Who was tops before Manny came to town? Martin at like 110? That's....kind of a significant difference, no?

Manny isn't an elite player anymore
Manny is still a great player

Andrew, he's 30 points of OPS+ better than Kemp. Matt Kemp, whom I love and venerate with statues and myriad poems, isn't close to Manny Ramirez.

This is where the defense thing really muddles the conversation.

Should I bring my card set to the picnic? Even if we just play for peanuts? Or Jae Seo rookie cards?

I'm sure Jae Seo is very proud about his MLB career.

The 4 minute standing ovation for Art Monk at Canton was pretty cool. I'm a sucker for standing ovations.

898 Agreed.

898 Coming into today:

Manny: 39 VORP, -15 defense
Kemp: 23.9 VORP, +0 defense

There's a 15 run difference between Kemp and Manny offensively, the question is how many runs does the 15 more plays Kemp has made this year mean? I'm not entirely sure but it makes up at least 11 or 12 of those runs, and using the estimates I use, it makes up almost the entire difference.

In the Dodger/Godfather lexicon, Jae Seo was the original Fredo.

Dead to me when he walked in the winning run.

Other players, other slappy, work-ethic oriented CF playing players would be Fredo. If they existed to me. Which they do not.

904
Tommy Lasorda is Frankie Pentangeli.

Maybe I can use trading cards instead of trophies for the DT Poker/Black Jack/Pai Gow tournament. This is the distraction essays cause.

903 Going 8-13 with two bombs and eight million RBI's in three games...I just don't see how defense is quantifiable compared to offensive output.

This really comes down to defensive metrics, and I don't like or trust them, and you do, and you're probably right and I'm probably wrong.

But there it is.

903 Not that I don't appreciate your defensive "estimates," but fortunately the offensive numbers are comfortingly objective.

907 If Manny continues to hit .630, I'll gladly admit I was wrong about all of this.

908 I can tell you that Kemp makes up at least 10.2 runs defensively if he's made 15 more plays. This is assuming every play Manny botches turns into a single.

910 So if he's made 15 more plays (which are equal to singles), those 15 singles equal 10.2 runs? In what parallel universe do 15 runners on first equal 10.2 runs?

If you'd been watching the Dodgers with Jeff Kent hitting cleanup I assure you you'd realize the mathematical inadequacies of your post.

But, then, I'm guessing you weren't a mathematics major. (Forgive me this one bit of sarcasm, I claim defense of truth)