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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Four on the Floor
2008-08-03 11:30
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Happy birthday to my oldest boy - still not dropped after four years!

* * *

Diamondbacks at Dodgers, 1:10 p.m.

Comments (969)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-03 11:32:06
1.   Jon Weisman
Today's lineup:


Pierre CF
Kemp RF
Martin C
Ramirez LF
Kent 2B
Loney 1B
Blake 3B
Berroa SS
Johnson P

2008-08-03 11:34:13
2.   Paul Scott
Grats on 4!
2008-08-03 11:35:10
3.   Greg Brock
FREE ANDRE ETHIER!

And happy birthday li'l Weisman!

2008-08-03 11:36:29
4.   Tripon
Aw man, Kent's back at 5th?
2008-08-03 11:36:41
5.   underdog
I was LAT'd and no one else probably cares but:

520 - I know, I put it in quotes because I was trying to personify the mentality that thinks it's hilarious to have an actor of short stature in a movie. (Er, I don't think "dwarf" is correct either, amigo.) But you're right, Myers has other issues. Like thinking The Love Guru would be funny. In any way.

By the way, an actor of short stature who is so good that he's no longer just getting roles because he fits that is Peter Dinklage. Great actor. Now no one cares what his height is. Or less than they did. Maybe he'll open up some doors.

2008-08-03 11:37:36
6.   underdog
Man, Ethier needed to start today, even if he's not officially starting any more. Kemp in CF. That would've been nice. Oh well, a dog can dream.

Happy Birthday, young Weisman!

Have a virtual birthday water balloon!

2008-08-03 11:38:17
7.   dzzrtRatt
Congrats on an error-free four years. Happy birthday to the little Weisman!
2008-08-03 11:38:32
8.   Jimi Shelter
Happy birthday! I hope a Dodger win is one of your presents.
2008-08-03 11:41:56
9.   Greg Brock
5 Er, I don't think "dwarf" is correct either, amigo

ORLY? You sure about that?

2008-08-03 11:43:11
10.   underdog
Probably saw this already and it isn't literally anything new but it's kinda useful to have this so clearly encapsulated (from the PE.com/beloblog):

"THE DODGERS' PAYROLL today is $118 million, and that's with Ramirez, Blake and Angel Berroa being paid by their former clubs. With Blake, Ramirez, Rafael Furcal, Nomar Garciaparra, Jeff Kent, Derek Lowe, Takashi Saito and Brad Penny (club option) all potential free agents, next year's could be closer to $75 million."

2008-08-03 11:44:30
11.   Linkmeister
3 Dittos!
2008-08-03 11:47:12
12.   underdog
Hm, you're right. Well, the more important part is that "little people" prefer no one call them by either word, dwarf or midget. "Little People of America (LPA) defines dwarfism as a medical or genetic condition that usually results in an adult height of 4'10" (147 cm) or shorter." (From Wikipedia) And then there are a bunch of different kinds of dwarfism. But medically, officially there is a different term but Peter Dinklage and Verne Troyer could be called dwarves, yeah.

Also (from WP): "Midget is a term used to describe an exceptionally short person. The terms "midget" and "dwarf" are often used synonymously, as both terms mean someone who has been short in stature since birth, but those terms were not originally synonyms." "The word dwarf has generally replaced midget even for proportionally short people, though the term little person is preferred."

Also from WP: "The Love Guru is a painfully unfunny film from Mike Myers."

No it doesn't say that. It could if I felt like editing wikipedia.

2008-08-03 11:47:27
13.   PalmdaleSteve1
Young Master Weisman

Tell Dad that you'd really like to catch a LV 51's AAA game and see Andruw play, hit..or maybe not, and maybe catch a glimpse of Andruw at one of the many Las Vegas buffets, how about a road trip?

2008-08-03 11:47:40
14.   Paul Scott
6 The Dodgers must do their best to minimize the value of the Manny Trade. Anything else would just not be winning "the Dodgers Way."
2008-08-03 11:47:59
15.   caseybarker
With the extra money for next year, I'd sign Dunn and Sabathia. You'd just hope that Dunn would not replace Ethier.
2008-08-03 11:49:59
16.   Greg Brock
It was my nephew's 3rd birthday yesterday. The present opening went as follows:

Open present
Focus on that present and forget all others
Get corralled and forced to open next present against will
Open present
Focus on that present
Rinse
Repeat

2008-08-03 11:53:46
17.   larry slimfast
futile but interesting discussion from previous thread - 525. conor jackson also strikes out less than he walks but he walks quite a bit. those sort of players (the ones that can hit too) tend to have long productive careers.
2008-08-03 11:55:04
18.   goofus
Use some of that saved money to buy out the contract on an incredibly stupid manager.
2008-08-03 11:56:09
19.   Paul Scott
15 As much as I think Pierre was a bad signing, he is no longer one of our top concerns. The Dodgers infield next year is going to be seriously weak.

Pierre in left and batting 8/9 rather than 1 is really not that bad. He is a significant plus defender in left which does help offset his terrible offense.

We have, next year, as things stand now, replacement level or below at 2B, SS and 3B (and Loney, as much as I like him, is still significantly substandard for 1B. Like Pierre (though not to the same extreme), his plus defense is helping a below average offense).

I think at this point, unless something miraculous happens, we just need to accept our problems with Pierre.

2008-08-03 11:56:33
20.   unlazy4sports
4 I think it's going to be a lefty/righty deal. Kent bats 5th against a lefty and Loney against a righty. At least that's what I hope today means.
2008-08-03 11:56:52
21.   underdog
16 3 is almost too young to appreciate or comprehend any bday or Xmas presents. Short attention spans and all that.

Word to the wise: Gift cards to Starbucks are not appreciated by 3 year old or their parents.

--

Man, it's going to be weird to not have Jason Elam kicking for Denver this season. I'll miss that guy. But I saw footage of his replacement hitting a near 70 yarder in an end-of-the-game pressure simulation yesterday. Not the same as in real game but was kind of impressive.

2008-08-03 11:58:48
22.   tjdub
The D-Backs games are blacked out on DTV in Utah so the last three days my Dodger viewing has gone as follows:

Open Dodger Thoughts
Focus on lineup posts and subsequent complaints and forget all others

Get frustrated and dread to open next day's posts

Open DT
Focus on lineup posts and complaints

Rinse
Repeat

Joe Torre is making me want to cancel my State Farm insurance policy in protest.

2008-08-03 11:59:21
23.   underdog
17 Oh I agree, I think Jackson will be/is a good one, has a good approach as a hitter. I just wouldn't give up Kemp and McDonald for him and even if I would, Arizona probably doesn't want to give him up. Or maybe they do - I can't remember what the potential Texeira deal entailed but thought Jackson was offered up for him?
2008-08-03 11:59:29
24.   Bob Hendley
Happy B-day, Ichiban son.
2008-08-03 12:00:47
25.   underdog
22 Torre or no, we could all try to be different today...
If there are enough people wanting it we could try to have someone doing inning summaries and such, too.

Okay, off for a coffee run.

2008-08-03 12:01:02
26.   D4P
Let's see: how else can we make fun of Bob...

Oh, I got one. Black jeans went "out" with Seinfeld.

2008-08-03 12:01:30
27.   D4P
26
Crap. That was meant for The Griddle.
2008-08-03 12:02:14
28.   68elcamino427
Happy Bithday!

Good luck to Mr. Ethier.
Seems just about everyone other than Torre prefers Ethier to start.

2008-08-03 12:05:00
29.   Greg Brock
25 If I can change...You can change...Everybody can change!

/Cheering

2008-08-03 12:07:50
30.   larry slimfast
23 i wouldn't give kemp and mcdonald for him either. i just doubted arizona would take that deal... as you do too. i wish he played 3rd for LA though.
2008-08-03 12:09:43
31.   Bob Hendley
28 - I can actually understand JP starting today, as I believe that he does well against Davis. A platooning approach would have had Andre starting yesterday. Though I don't like it, platooning might be all we could ask for from Torre, but I fear that we won't given get that, but that it will be a gut thing on who starts and Joe's gut says JP.
2008-08-03 12:14:43
32.   Lexinthedena
team I would enjoy next year.

lineup

Kemp CF
Martin C
Loney 1B
Ramirez LF
Ethier RF
O-Dawg 2B
DeWitt3B
Hu SS

Starting Pitching

Sabathia
Bills
Penny
Kershaw
Kuroda

It would be a fun team to watch...for me.

2008-08-03 12:18:51
33.   tjdub
32 That's some freely flowing free agent finances. (Geez I'm bored today)
2008-08-03 12:20:21
34.   Alex41592
20 - Sounds right to me.
2008-08-03 12:20:27
35.   gpellamjr
32 If I understand rightly, and the payroll drops to $75 million after this season, that could probably be affordable, if Manny and CC cost about $20 million a piece, that would take the payroll up to $115-- then McCourt would have to be willing to go up to $130 or so in order to get Hudson signed, no?
2008-08-03 12:22:30
36.   JayB
I think it is in the "honeymoon" stage right now. The fans have accepted Manny with open-arms, and Manny is saying all the right things. Everybody is happy! Manny & Boras both know that his stock has gone up in just two days time, and that his value in the free-agency market is like a shot-in-the-arm. Is it possible that McCourt did not anticipate the overwhelming reaction by everyone in obtaining Manny? Will McCourt's hand be forced into retaining Manny, and at what cost both monetarily and otherwise? What effect overall will getting Manny as a rental player have on off-season strategy? I know, live for today!
2008-08-03 12:24:32
37.   madmac
28 see yesterday's discussion. I don't think that is completely true outside these links. I think I tend to be less critical than most around these parts on the Dodgers. I must say thought that Pierre consistently playing over Ethier is really upsetting. This may be, for me, the most troubling trend to occur over the past few years.
2008-08-03 12:27:46
38.   madmac
who would everyone rather have for the next 2-3 yrs, Dunn or ManRam? Is is dependent on who the other two OF'ers are?
2008-08-03 12:27:56
39.   Sammy Maudlin
Young Weisman shares his birthday with Jim Gott, Sid Bream, and Kevin Elster. It is good to share.
2008-08-03 12:32:06
40.   Jacob Burch
4 It's burried somewhere back a post, but Kent will likely continue to 'protect' Manny against LHP. That is until Torre changes his mind again.

As sad as Ethier's situation is (I think the best we can hope for that no matter what happens in the offseason--a Manny signing, for instance) Joe wises up over ST and gives the nod to Ethier. I have a little more stomach for 2/3rds of the next two months of Pierre in Center than most (still, very little). But next year would just cinch it. At least he's wised up to Kemp--I can't imagine the revolt at a Jones in Right, Pierre in Center, Manny in Left line up to "make sure we get our gamers out there."

2008-08-03 12:34:40
41.   MonkeyBlue
Gary Matthews Jr seem like a really crappy signing.
2008-08-03 12:34:51
42.   Gen3Blue
Happy B-day Weismans.

19 My instinct argues that JP is not an assett on defense in left field, although I am not sure how to interpret the data, or if there is enough yet. And his arm does not even discourage some runners from going from second to third on a fly. But this has been aired enough here.
Anywho, we have a pile of outfielders here and shouldn't consider Dunn until we get rid of a few, and I hope Ethier is not one to go. It should be Jones and JP. I think we've prooved that grabbing players and then worrying about what to do with the conflicts later is not a good strategy, at least with our personel.

2008-08-03 12:50:14
43.   Alex41592
Teixeira is up with the bases loaded down three in the Bronx.
2008-08-03 12:50:59
44.   dzzrtRatt
It comes down to money. Without even a word passing between them, Torre knows he would be embarrassing Ned to no end if he had both Jones and Pierre on the bench while the Dodgers win the division with a buck-fifty outfield.

Teixiera slams!

2008-08-03 12:51:27
45.   Alex41592
43 - And he hits a grand slam to right. Angels take the lead. Rocket shot.
2008-08-03 12:55:55
46.   dzzrtRatt
44 Anyway, as I was saying before the Angels distracted me...

It's sad, but the politics of management prevents Torre from fielding the best team. I'm sure Torre expects and probably welcomes Colletti's imminent firing, but he doesn't want to be seen as having pushed him, which benching all the expensive players and playing the cheap ones could be interpreted as doing.

From all Torre's quotes, it's obvious he knows Ethier is, against most pitchers, one of his three best outfielders. The subtext of his odd "Pierre deserves to start" comment the other day is, "but Ethier makes us better."

2008-08-03 12:58:00
47.   cloakedarbiter
44 I feel like if Torre really felt that Ethier in the lineup instead of Pierre, he would talk to upper management about it, explain to them why the Dodgers have a better chance of winning the division with a young outfielder with power than slap-hitting Pierre, convince them to admit their mistakes, and move on. Of course, we're talking millions spent by McCourt here, but at the same time, I don't really see 'job security' as much of a factor for a first-year celebrity manager.

Therefore, Torre leads off Pierre and occasionally starts Andruw because he's veteran-happy and truly believes we're better off with them.

2008-08-03 13:05:17
48.   Sam DC
Nationals closer Joel Hanrahan just collected his first major league save.

It's a funny journey guys take in baseball.

Happy Birthday Weisman fils.

2008-08-03 13:12:29
49.   Gen3Blue
That pitch looked like a strike!
2008-08-03 13:13:31
50.   MonkeyBlue
Nice save for Loney!
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-03 13:14:01
51.   twerp
Jon, not long ago you referenced the old Johnny Bench paint commerical--"no runs, no drips, no errors."

You may not have any errors (drops) in those first 4 years, but no doubt you've had more than a few drips. :)

Maybe a few runs for whatever reason, too...

2008-08-03 13:20:00
52.   underdog
Not the Angels' bullpen's finest hour today.

Guess they were due for an implosion.

2008-08-03 13:20:06
53.   MonkeyBlue
Wow! Casey saves a run there!
2008-08-03 13:20:12
54.   Alex41592
Sweet play by Casey.
2008-08-03 13:20:30
55.   underdog
Great snag by Casey Blake! Zoot!
2008-08-03 13:22:02
56.   underdog
And that was a great break for the Dodgers, smash hit caroms off the mound to slow it down, and he's out! Woot.

Now 14-9 Yankees in the bottom of the 9th.

2008-08-03 13:22:19
57.   Alex41592
Pierre is 11 for 26 lifetime vs. Doug Davis
2008-08-03 13:22:45
58.   underdog
Oh and 46 I agree.
2008-08-03 13:24:33
59.   underdog
Huh, I didn't realize Doug Davis went to San Francisco City College.

Be nice to actually get some runs off him for once.

2008-08-03 13:25:18
60.   trainwreck
Happy birthday, to the young Weisman.

The title of the thread made me think of this from Stella, when Michael Showalter is dealing out cards:

"...fours are floors, who's got four on the floor, I do cos I'm a TONKA TRUCK"

2008-08-03 13:25:27
61.   MonkeyBlue
New streak conitnues for Bison!
2008-08-03 13:25:34
62.   Bob Hendley
46 - I guess its difficult to know what Torre really feels about JP and Andre, but as manager one would think that he could defend a platoon arrangement with upper management, but we have not even seen that to date, which leads be to believe that he prefers JP.
2008-08-03 13:26:48
63.   Icaros
59

Some people here have even played against him. Not saying who...

2008-08-03 13:26:54
64.   Alex41592
Davis has a sick pickoff move so watch out for it.
2008-08-03 13:27:55
65.   Bob Hendley
61 - Broken yesterday, no?
2008-08-03 13:28:11
66.   Alex41592
Manny with 2 on.
2008-08-03 13:29:00
67.   trainwreck
63
Some here might have even gotten a hit off him.
2008-08-03 13:29:16
68.   underdog
60 Seriously? Very cool.

My g/f sort of roots for him because he recovered nicely from thyroid cancer (not that she's been diagnosed with that yet but is worried about it and it's reassuring to hear a great, easy recovery story). But she's allowing me to root for him to lose here today.

2008-08-03 13:29:23
69.   MonkeyBlue
Manny! soo good!
2008-08-03 13:29:35
70.   Greg Brock
Manny!*
Manny!

That was for yesterday. I wasn't here for the Homer.

2008-08-03 13:29:36
71.   Alex41592
Manny delivers. Bison speed and it's 1-0 Dodgers.
2008-08-03 13:29:49
72.   tjdub
I think Manny will make lots of friends in his new town if he keeps this up
2008-08-03 13:29:54
73.   underdog
The RBI Machine is nice to have in our arsenal isn't it?

Manny being Manny.

2008-08-03 13:30:09
74.   Greg Brock
Homer

D'oh

2008-08-03 13:30:45
75.   Bob Hendley
Another first inning run (how did we do this before Manny arrived? Wonder how much is due to the time that Bison was leading off.)
2008-08-03 13:30:55
76.   madmac
a happy Man is a very good Man
2008-08-03 13:31:02
77.   Uncle Miltie
It's funny how casually Manny drives in runs. Ho hum, another RBI for Manny. No biggie.
2008-08-03 13:31:03
78.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Martin should really start seeing some fastball in front of Manny.
2008-08-03 13:31:43
79.   MollyKnight
Hey-o, that Manny sure can hit a baseball.
2008-08-03 13:31:47
80.   underdog
So what's the deal - I thought Manny was supposed to cut his hair? Did they work out something with that?
2008-08-03 13:32:06
81.   Bob Hendley
68 - Best to g/f and you.
2008-08-03 13:32:28
82.   milkshakeballa
Blake's S has been flawless.
2008-08-03 13:32:42
83.   Greg Brock
80 He'll cut it tomorrow. Like he did yesterday. And the day before that.
2008-08-03 13:32:55
84.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Kent is really having a tough time at the plate.
2008-08-03 13:33:00
85.   trainwreck
80
Torre realized where the power was.

Samson gets me lifted.

2008-08-03 13:33:09
86.   MonkeyBlue
Kent should not be in the lineup. I thought the Old man rest in Sunday games?
2008-08-03 13:33:17
87.   Icaros
68

Yes, he's actually a nice guy, too, so I was happy to see him recover from the illness so quickly.

2008-08-03 13:33:39
88.   underdog
81 - Thanks, man.

83 - Maybe it's a semantic thing they've agreed upon. He has to cut one hair every day, just one hair cut.

2008-08-03 13:34:54
89.   underdog
Kent is struggling but that also didn't look like a strike to me at all. Did I miss it or did the ump?
2008-08-03 13:35:35
90.   MonkeyBlue
Loney clutch!
2008-08-03 13:35:40
91.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Loney being Manny.
2008-08-03 13:35:45
92.   Alex41592
89 - Cut fastball that may have grazed the outside corner. LONEY!
2008-08-03 13:36:03
93.   StolenMonkey86
85 - exception for members of the 500 home run club? Joe Beimel has 500 to go.
2008-08-03 13:36:57
94.   Who Is Karim Garcia
89

It was on the black, in my opinion. I'll take it as a strike considering what Johnson got called as a strike in the first inning.

2008-08-03 13:37:00
95.   underdog
Nicely done, Crazy Eyes/Legs!

I'm sorry but Manny on the basepaths made me think of something else for a second: Predator.

2008-08-03 13:37:09
96.   StolenMonkey86
89 - Gameday suggests the ump was giving Davis a couple pitches that at best could have caught a little bit of the black vs Kent.
2008-08-03 13:37:28
97.   Kevin Lewis
Is this game in HD on prime fsn? I am trying to figure out why I sometimes get a full screen game in mlb.tv and sometimes I don't.
2008-08-03 13:38:03
98.   underdog
92/94 - Fair 'nuf. Admittedly, it's sometimes hard to see clearly when watching on MLBTV, too. A defensive check swing to foul it off would've been nice, Old Man.
2008-08-03 13:39:24
99.   Vishal
that manny guy is good at baseball. we should get more players like him.
2008-08-03 13:40:00
100.   underdog
1.60 ERA for the Dodgers' pitching staff this home stand.

That's pretty decent.

I bet that ERA is higher in St. Louis, though.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-08-03 13:41:43
101.   Bob Timmermann
Time-Warner has ended my Amish ways.

Which I got around for a while by using a BlackBerry, but work with me.

2008-08-03 13:42:03
102.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Jason Johnson is dealing.
2008-08-03 13:43:17
103.   Who Is Karim Garcia
101

Is this you, Bob?

2008-08-03 13:43:33
104.   Who Is Karim Garcia
101

I mean, is THIS you?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1212/1481356416_57cacd5afe.jpg

2008-08-03 13:43:53
105.   underdog
Vin is seriously jinxing us regarding Chris Young here.
2008-08-03 13:44:11
106.   Bob Timmermann
104
That is me, English.
2008-08-03 13:44:16
107.   Greg Brock
I guess Chris Young is the new Mike Cameron. Great defender, pop, tons of strikeouts, no batting average.
2008-08-03 13:44:35
108.   ToyCannon
95
Manny has always reminded me of the predator.

Heck of an Angel/Yankee game.

2008-08-03 13:45:07
109.   Alex41592
97 - The game is in HD. MLB.TV is weird. Dodger home feeds are not in HD on MLB.TV. But, off hand Arizona, S.F, S.D and Colorado all have HD feeds on MLB.TV when at home. As do others. For whatever reason MLB.TV doesn't get or use the HD feed from FSN Prime or KCAL. Cannot explain why.
2008-08-03 13:45:47
110.   Icaros
107

Let's hope he avoids the midair faceplant with a fellow outfielder. I still can't watch that clip.

2008-08-03 13:46:13
111.   ToyCannon
107
Mike Cameron could take a walk which is what I thought C Young would be able to do.

Did they take away Andy's infield hit on Friday because the box score shows him a .000 batting average after this weekend?

2008-08-03 13:47:14
112.   underdog
Is everyone on the DBacks named Chris? It seems like it.

109 Hm. But you need MLBTV Premium for that anyway, right? (I just have a basic sub.)

2008-08-03 13:47:16
113.   ToyCannon
110
Other peoples pain I can handle.
2008-08-03 13:47:52
114.   cloakedarbiter
97 Firefox doesn't allow you to full-screen games unless it's Windows Media Player. If I'm correct, you're going to have to turn off some of the MLB.tv plugins that you might have installed (if you installed them).
2008-08-03 13:48:50
115.   Alex41592
112 - Yes for the better quality feeds and Mosaic.
2008-08-03 13:48:58
116.   cloakedarbiter
114 Or use IE.
2008-08-03 13:49:10
117.   underdog
Johnson's pitching at Kaz Ishii-like pace here. This could be a 4 hour game and a 3-2 final.

Darnit, Russ!

2008-08-03 13:50:18
118.   Ken Noe
Andy LaRoche just tied up the Pirates-Cubs with a two-run homer.
2008-08-03 13:51:09
119.   twerp
Quotes of note, thanks to Joe Biddle in today's Tennessean--

"I wish I was strong enough to do that when I played. I had to use a water cooler."

--Lou Piniella on Carlos Zambrano's breaking a bat over his knee after failing to execute a bunt.

And from the at least he's mostly living in reality dept.:

"I pitched just poorly enough that anybody that might be interested is no longer interested."

--Nats pitcher Tim Redding after allowing 7 runs and 10 hits in a loss to the Phillies just before the trade deadline.

and, for 21 , "Man, it's going to be weird to not have Jason Elam kicking for Denver this season. I'll miss that guy. But I saw footage of his replacement hitting a near 70 yarder in an end-of-the-game pressure simulation yesterday. Not the same as in real game but was kind of impressive."

..."I'll sleep very well at night knowing it's going to be 70 degrees with no wind when I get out there." --Elam on playing at the Georgia Dome for the Falcons.

2008-08-03 13:51:17
120.   Alex41592
We're going to need more runs. Johnson doesn't have much today.
2008-08-03 13:51:20
121.   underdog
yeah, I use Firefox on the Mac and installed the Windows Silverlight player and the WMP plug in to watch it, can watch it on full screen though it's kind of blurry. Kind of like watching a regular movie blown up to play in an IMAX theater. Well, not exactly like that.

Bob will tell you all about Silverlight if asked.

2008-08-03 13:51:59
122.   MonkeyBlue
What the heck? JJ
2008-08-03 13:52:25
123.   Greg Brock
Okay, who reminded Jason Johnson that he is Jason Johnson?

Why would you do that? WHY?

2008-08-03 13:52:46
124.   underdog
118 Hooray for Andy!

Too bad he can't hit at the major league level yet.

Darn it JJJ! A hit to the pitcher? Feh.

Yeah, we're gonna need the 'pen today.

2008-08-03 13:53:20
125.   underdog
Is Kuo available to pitch at all today?
2008-08-03 13:54:17
126.   Kevin Lewis
I have no problem with the quality and streaming of the video. It is running on a HTPC hooked up to my tv, but sometimes I get full screen and sometimes I don't. All other teams tend to be full screen for me.
2008-08-03 13:54:23
127.   Alex41592
Yep, Johnson has absolutely nothing.
2008-08-03 13:54:34
128.   Kevin Lewis
I miss Ethier's arm
2008-08-03 13:54:44
129.   milkshakeballa
#102 is solely responsible for this inning...

Thanks

2008-08-03 13:55:00
130.   Greg Brock
Hit the panic button.
2008-08-03 13:55:25
131.   cloakedarbiter
123 Looks like Rick Honeycutt re-reminded him.
2008-08-03 13:55:30
132.   underdog
Bullpen by committee today, methinks, with the off day today.
2008-08-03 13:55:56
133.   underdog
Er, off day tomorrow that is.

Off day for Jason Johnson today.

2008-08-03 13:58:21
134.   Kevin Lewis
okay, mosaic is pretty sick. I am liking this
2008-08-03 13:58:34
135.   Gen3Blue
I hope they don't get a third run, because we know how Davis will probably respond after a shaky inning.

And I'm afraid I know how Johnson will respond. And we have a black hole coming up.
I hope they make Davis throw some pitches.

2008-08-03 13:58:59
136.   Alex41592
118 - Andy crushed a hanging breaking ball by Gaudin.
2008-08-03 13:59:17
137.   Andrew Shimmin
118- One down, twenty-four to go.
2008-08-03 13:59:38
138.   JoeyP
Good for LaRoche.
2008-08-03 14:00:13
139.   Alex41592
Thanks Davis.
2008-08-03 14:00:29
140.   Greg Brock
Walking Angel Berroa!

You silly, silly man. Thank you!

2008-08-03 14:01:23
141.   cloakedarbiter
134 Is it smooth for you?
2008-08-03 14:01:27
142.   Alex41592
Beimel's bobblehead is nice.
2008-08-03 14:03:27
143.   Greg Brock
Wow, James Doohan was supposed to have his ashes shot into space.

The rocket blew up over the Pacific.

Bummer.

2008-08-03 14:03:31
144.   Gen3Blue
Oh--I didn't know Ethier was struggling.
2008-08-03 14:04:29
145.   cloakedarbiter
Torre only plays the hot hand for young players. Veterans, on the other hand, know how to correct themselves if they go on a bad streak.
2008-08-03 14:04:49
146.   Kevin Lewis
so, how often does Pierre come to the plate with a risp and less than two outs?

I want that .481 avg put into context

2008-08-03 14:05:05
147.   MonkeyBlue
Bison! woo!!!
2008-08-03 14:05:06
148.   Alex41592
Matt Kemp also owns Doug Davis. Dodgers take back the lead.
2008-08-03 14:05:27
149.   Gen3Blue
How come JP rarely seems to hit it on the ground these days. (with all the depth of knowledge of "Ethier is struggling")
2008-08-03 14:06:02
150.   underdog
Nice, Bison! Well targeted hit there with the SS covering.

A run even with the black hole starting the inning off seems to bode well, doesn't it?

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-08-03 14:06:30
151.   Alex41592
Cubs go back to back.
2008-08-03 14:07:08
152.   Gen3Blue
I would send Kemp to third--not much to lose.
2008-08-03 14:07:27
153.   Kevin Lewis
141

Yep, perfectly smooth

I got the Dodgers in the main frame with DET/TB, SF/SD and PIT/CHC on the side

2 homers in a row for CHC. 8 to 5

2008-08-03 14:08:38
154.   MonkeyBlue
Martin!
2008-08-03 14:08:41
155.   Alex41592
Martin! And now it's Manny time.
2008-08-03 14:08:54
156.   Greg Brock
Watch your lips, Tracy!
2008-08-03 14:09:32
157.   underdog
145 Sort of true. Though Jones isn't getting that treatment. And DeWitt was given a lot of time to play through his slump (too much time some might say). I think your point is generally true anyway but not always. I'm fine with Pierre starting today given his history vs Davis but like everyone I don't get why Ethier is the odd man out right now in general. Hopefully that will change, when he, you know, "gets hot." ;-)
2008-08-03 14:10:11
158.   cloakedarbiter
Kemp, Martin, Manny does deadly damage in back to back innings! Let's keep the hits coming, Manny!
2008-08-03 14:10:17
159.   Kevin Lewis
Forgot about the don't refresh too soon with Mlb.tv rule

By the way, who decided the Sunday game jerseys for SD looked good?

Same guy that worked for Verizon and demanded to imprint the logo on the iPhone or no go?

2008-08-03 14:10:30
160.   preacherroe
#19- How is Loney substandard? The endless carping on the guy by some is wearisome. He's not Pujols obviously, but he is a productive hitter, He is leading the team in doubles,triples,near the top in batting average and rbi. It's not out of the question he'll develop more home run power as he matures. First Base is the least of the team's worries.
2008-08-03 14:11:29
161.   Ken Noe
Pierre is a defensive liability even when he's not near the ball if he pushes Ethier to the bench. Meanwhile, Kemp is clearly the right lead-off hitter. It's just so frustrating.
2008-08-03 14:12:21
162.   underdog
This is quite the pitcher's duel today so far. Probably won't end up like the Yankees-Angels game today but ya never know.

They want no part of Manny here.

2008-08-03 14:12:24
163.   Icaros
Wonderful.
2008-08-03 14:12:25
164.   Greg Brock
What a slide by Martin!
2008-08-03 14:12:30
165.   MonkeyBlue
Manny begin Manny!!!!!!!!
2008-08-03 14:12:32
166.   Alex41592
CHILLS! I GOT THEM CHILLS! Great slide by Russ.
2008-08-03 14:12:47
167.   Johnson
JARBIFMR
2008-08-03 14:13:05
168.   underdog
Damn. That boy can crush and stuff.

Why did they pitch to him again?

2008-08-03 14:13:09
169.   silverwidow
BEST TRADE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2008-08-03 14:13:27
170.   Kevin Lewis
Wow, Riggan just took a fastball to the chest in the Rays game
2008-08-03 14:13:32
171.   cloakedarbiter
157 Well, I think Ethier is our 3rd best outfielder too. I need to work on the tone of my sarcasm if I want to use it next time ;)

Between Andruw and Ethier, I'm not actually certain which one Torre will start more... I'm really really hoping Ethier.

Manny makes good to his promises. No more 40 HRs, only line drives to right field!

2008-08-03 14:13:40
172.   alex 7
what a difference one huge bat has made for this lineup. Such a strong bridge between the top and bottom of the lineup.
2008-08-03 14:14:03
173.   natepurcell
So who wants to dress up in Predator costumes and parade around the stadium in honor of ManRam?
2008-08-03 14:14:12
174.   Bob Timmermann
160
There is a small, but vocal of anti-Loneyists.

It's best not to argue with them.

2008-08-03 14:14:15
175.   milkshakeballa
Manny is a MUCH MUCH MUCH better hitter than I anticipated. I don't know if he can keep this up, but he hits the ball squarely EVERYTIME. He changes our lineup COMPLETELY.
2008-08-03 14:14:20
176.   underdog
That was a great slide by Russ - thought he was out dead to right.

167 Hey, aren't you supposed to be pitching?

2008-08-03 14:14:24
177.   Kevin Lewis
Tamba Bay down by 1 in Bottom of 10th with runners on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out
2008-08-03 14:14:27
178.   cloakedarbiter
170 Okay, I give in. I'm going to try Mosaic right now.
2008-08-03 14:14:59
179.   Bob Timmermann
174
I left out my collective noun above. I was trying to find a euphemism and then left it out.

I'll go with "cabal."

2008-08-03 14:16:24
180.   underdog
171 Heh.
Oh and I guarantee you Ethier will be seeing a lot more PT than Druw at this point. That seems like a given.

Billy Buckner's in. Drive one right through his wicket, Loney!

2008-08-03 14:16:48
181.   MollyKnight
I know a lot of people on this board feel like giving up LaRoche for a Manny rental was a bad trade. But at the very least, I hope those folks can enjoy watching the guy play these two months. It really is wonderful.
2008-08-03 14:16:48
182.   Andrew Shimmin
Cabal is sinister, but sort of belies the vocal-ness of the group, no? I'd say parade, because everybody loves a parade.
2008-08-03 14:16:52
183.   underdog
Er, Kent, not Loney. I forgot he moved back up today.
2008-08-03 14:17:19
184.   Icaros
179

Was "consortium" considered?

2008-08-03 14:17:41
185.   underdog
181 I'm enjoying the heck out of it. Next year I'll be crying more about LaRoche not being ours. But I am certainly gonna enjoy Manny.
2008-08-03 14:17:51
186.   Ricardo
Back after long time, happy birthday to you son, Jon. How long untill they start to walk Manny?
2008-08-03 14:17:54
187.   alex 7
Torre's love of Kent...
2008-08-03 14:18:15
188.   silverwidow
181 Even the biggest LaRoche fans like myself think this trade is fantastic.
2008-08-03 14:18:18
189.   Kevin Lewis
bases loaded in Tampa Bay

Rodney is upset to say the least

2008-08-03 14:18:57
190.   Ken Noe
181 I'm having tons of fun with it, honestly--I've liked Manny a long time--but I did feel a twinge when Andy went yard today.
2008-08-03 14:18:58
191.   underdog
179 I believe "junta" and "faction" would have been accepted as well.
2008-08-03 14:19:18
192.   Marty
OK, I was wrong. I'm officially not pessimistic about Manny anymore.

Also, Manny begin Manny is my favorite comment of the day.

2008-08-03 14:19:24
193.   whodat807
Fell asleep in front of MLBTV in the top of the second, and woke up to see the Kemp/Martin/Manny hits. It's fun watching Kemp and Martin hit in front of a guy like Manny... I get the feeling we'll see a lot of RBI opportunities for our new left fielder.
2008-08-03 14:19:52
194.   Bob Timmermann
182
I was thinking of going really old school and opting for "junto."
2008-08-03 14:19:52
195.   MMSMikey
can ethier play second base? jesus if kent keeps looking like absolutle garbage up there manny isnt going to see any pitches to hit.
2008-08-03 14:20:00
196.   Ricardo
188. Did Colletti really do this trade? It´s so good, hard to believe that he did it...
2008-08-03 14:20:23
197.   alex 7
both time Manny has been up, there hasn't been a base to put him on. As long as Kemp and Martin are getting on often enough, it will be hard to walk Manny. Would also be nice to have Loney behind him.
2008-08-03 14:20:25
198.   cloakedarbiter
Rays tie it up. Bases still loaded with 1 out.
2008-08-03 14:20:36
199.   Kevin Lewis
crawford singles to tie it up
2008-08-03 14:20:40
200.   Vishal
kemp 2-2, martin 1-1 with a walk, manny 2-2, loney 1-1.

pierre 0-2 kent 0-2 blake 0-1.

it's not hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-08-03 14:21:02
201.   LoneStar7
i don't really understand the whole arbitration thing, is there anyway we can or would offer to resign manram after this year?
2008-08-03 14:21:07
202.   Greg Brock
Not to mention all the excitement on every play to left field.

It's value added, I think.

2008-08-03 14:21:07
203.   Bob Timmermann
195
Andre Ethier and Juan Pierre would make very poor second basemen if you ever looked to see which hand they threw with.
2008-08-03 14:21:31
204.   Kevin Lewis
You like Mosaic now?
2008-08-03 14:22:18
205.   alex 7
I'm sure Logan White had a say in the trade. Seems to be the norm.

When Nomar's healthy, he'll spell Kent at 2B often enough.

2008-08-03 14:22:43
206.   Kevin Lewis
wow, Longoria could have taken that for the team and the win
2008-08-03 14:22:48
207.   alex 7
dang, that was supposed to be a question. Too late to experiment with Nomar at 2B? I mean, he's a SS. Switch should be easy enough.
2008-08-03 14:23:17
208.   MonkeyBlue
JJ looked really good in this inning.
2008-08-03 14:23:39
209.   cloakedarbiter
And a swing and a miss. I can tune out when the Dbacks are batting, and still watch the game, then tune back in when Martin-Kemp-Manny come up again.
2008-08-03 14:24:04
210.   underdog
cool. JJJ forgot who he was again that inning. That works.
2008-08-03 14:24:11
211.   Greg Brock
I guess we'll have to wait a month before Hu comes up. That's disappointing.
2008-08-03 14:24:14
212.   Alex41592
200 - Casey Blake is certainly not chaff.
2008-08-03 14:24:18
213.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm part of the spore cluster of trade-rejectionists, but I'm happy enough to watch Manny hit baseballs. He's really good at it.
2008-08-03 14:24:28
214.   KG16
201 - if the Dodgers make the playoffs, I can't see how they don't try to resign Manny. I just hope they also have the foresight to waive Jones and shop Pierre.
2008-08-03 14:25:05
215.   cloakedarbiter
209 (Hitters in no particular order.)
2008-08-03 14:25:26
216.   Ken Noe
196 205 I posted this link earlier--Bob Nightengale (USA Today) says Ned had nothing to do with it.

http://tinyurl.com/55hy2s

2008-08-03 14:25:49
217.   Kevin Lewis
I had a nightmare that Ned went and signed K-Rod for 15mil a year
2008-08-03 14:25:59
218.   underdog
192 I think it's a nod to "beginning the beguine," whatever the heck that song meant. Yeah, that's it.
2008-08-03 14:26:00
219.   Greg Brock
To be against the Manny trade, one has to presuppose that Andy LaRoche was ever, EVER going get a fair shake here.

If you love something, you let it go. He's in a better place now.

2008-08-03 14:26:08
220.   MollyKnight
188- I ran into Kim Ng on the field on Friday and spoke to her for a while. She gave Ned all the credit for pulling it off. I don't get the impression that anyone was happy to see LaRoche go. I think they know he'll be a good big league player, but that you have to give to get.

FYI: Kim is one of the most intelligent baseball people I've ever spoken with, and, unlike a certain GM who regularly whips himself into a frenzy, she seems extremely even-keeled. She's going to be a heck of a GM some day.

2008-08-03 14:26:24
221.   MonkeyBlue
Vinny is so awesome
2008-08-03 14:26:48
222.   KG16
Vin having fun at the expense of certain New Yorkers, sounds kind of funny, but I can totally see it.
2008-08-03 14:26:50
223.   nick
Vin's snooty Newy York aristocrat accent is fantastic....
2008-08-03 14:26:51
224.   Alex41592
Walk-off walk for the Rays.
2008-08-03 14:26:54
225.   Kevin Lewis
go Rays

walked in the winner

2008-08-03 14:26:57
226.   Ricardo
It worries me that Torre may insist to have Kent protecting Manny, instead of Loney or even Kemp.
2008-08-03 14:27:01
227.   LoneStar7
214 hope so as well, i can't imagine anyone expressing interest in pierre though
2008-08-03 14:27:02
228.   LoneStar7
214 hope so as well, i can't imagine anyone expressing interest in pierre though
2008-08-03 14:27:17
229.   underdog
Hah hah. Vin doing his best Jim Backus impression for his origin of the "trolley Dodgers" story.
2008-08-03 14:27:28
230.   MMSMikey
203....

it was a joke....

2008-08-03 14:27:33
231.   MSarg29
Vin is certainly giddy today
2008-08-03 14:27:35
232.   milkshakeballa
Heres a question for you guys.

Who has more value as the 4th outfielder for next year?

Pierre with his pinch running speed or Jones for his defense.

Have to go with Pierre correct?

2008-08-03 14:27:43
233.   Bob Timmermann
221
"Yes, the coachman took a whip to them ..."

That could be one of the most bizarre things I've ever heard Vin say.

Especially since he did it in a dialect.

2008-08-03 14:27:54
234.   cloakedarbiter
Sometimes, I just love Vin. No, all the time. What an awesome northeastern accent.
2008-08-03 14:28:30
235.   Bob Timmermann
230
Tell that to the people who call Dodger Talk.
2008-08-03 14:28:47
236.   BlueinBerkeley
Vinnie's speaking in tongues?

Seriously-I love this guy!

2008-08-03 14:29:07
237.   underdog
226 - I think it's a lefty-righty thing, and yesterday he had Loney in the five slot. Hard to know what he'll do in general but I can't imagine Kent will stick at 5 very often the way he's hitting.
2008-08-03 14:29:27
238.   Bob Timmermann
RIP Alexander Solzhenitsyn

(Cut and pasted)

2008-08-03 14:30:03
239.   KG16
shouldn't that be infield fly?
2008-08-03 14:30:16
240.   alex 7
LoneStar, how baseball arbitration works:

http://tinyurl.com/5629bp

2008-08-03 14:30:20
241.   MonkeyBlue
Tracy stuck his arm out???
2008-08-03 14:30:36
242.   whodat807
The frozen jaw! Vin just taught me how to do a new accent; for that, and everything else, I'll be forever grateful. Love ol' Vin.
2008-08-03 14:30:37
243.   MMSMikey
235.

no thanks.

2008-08-03 14:30:41
244.   underdog
That was hilarious. Kudos all around.

Ringling Brothers on the infield.

2008-08-03 14:30:53
245.   Gen3Blue
Loney was safe either way in my view.
2008-08-03 14:31:27
246.   Bob Timmermann
The umpires have this correct. Since Blake interfered with Tracy, he's out and no runners can advance.
2008-08-03 14:31:45
247.   scareduck
244 - you misspelled hilaripus.
2008-08-03 14:31:53
248.   KG16
I'm fine with this result. Though I'd prefer Loney to be at second
2008-08-03 14:32:29
249.   underdog
I highly un-recommend typing on your laptop while eating salt & vinegar chips, by the way.
2008-08-03 14:32:46
250.   Johnson
241 Yeah, looks to me like Tracy stuck his arm way out into foul ground to make contact with Blake when the ball fell well fair.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-08-03 14:32:50
251.   underdog
This is boring. I want Manny to bat!
2008-08-03 14:32:59
252.   LoneStar7
240 thanks
2008-08-03 14:32:59
253.   Neal Pollack
It's like the offense is playing around Pierre and Kent. Not only do they not have hits, they have been completely unproductive. Even so, Manny makes a huge difference.
2008-08-03 14:33:06
254.   KG16
246 - yeah, but couldn't they have called the in field fly rule before the interference? which would allow Loney to advance?
2008-08-03 14:33:06
255.   Kevin Lewis
246

Yep, no runner can advance on an interference call.

This is why I love baseball. The officials can stop and get the call right after the fact.

2008-08-03 14:33:56
256.   Johnson
254 Nope, gotta have two men on to call the infield fly rule.
2008-08-03 14:34:06
257.   underdog
That's the Berroa we all know and tolerate.
2008-08-03 14:34:06
258.   Gen3Blue
As Vin says "On-hell" Barroa. The beginning of our black hole.
2008-08-03 14:34:36
259.   scareduck
254 - good point. I wonder if Torre thought of that.
2008-08-03 14:34:43
260.   Gen3Blue
Tie goes to the dog.
2008-08-03 14:34:44
261.   Andrew Shimmin
219- The trade isn't the only thing I'm against. I can sustain objections on up to five codependent conditions.
2008-08-03 14:34:54
262.   Kevin Lewis
infield fly has to have runners on 1st and 2nd or 1st, 2nd, and 3rd with less than two outs
2008-08-03 14:35:14
263.   larry slimfast
254 infield fly requires at least runners on 1st and 2nd
2008-08-03 14:35:19
264.   Bob Timmermann
It was a no-brainer on the interference call. A fielder trying to get to a batted ball in play has the right of way.

If Tracy were just standing around and not trying to catch the ball and ran into Blake, then it would be a different matter.

2008-08-03 14:35:40
265.   Ricardo
216. Thanks, Ken. If that really happened Colletti job is far from being safe, I thought that after the trade he´d get at least another year.

237. Now I understand. It worries that pitchers start to walk Manny because Kent isn´t a big threat any longer.

2008-08-03 14:35:42
266.   KG16
256 - really? I though you just have to have a potential force out
2008-08-03 14:36:11
267.   underdog
Jeez Molly, all your sports-related traveling and then you manage to see all of Lollapalooza, too? I'm tired just hearing about your schedule this month.
2008-08-03 14:38:05
268.   Bob Timmermann
266
The only protection you get with just one runner on is that an infielder can't deliberately drop a line drive.
2008-08-03 14:38:08
269.   Bob Timmermann
266
The only protection you get with just one runner on is that an infielder can't deliberately drop a line drive.
2008-08-03 14:38:47
270.   cloakedarbiter
I didn't catch those last two synonyms of "Zero" that Vin said?
2008-08-03 14:41:37
271.   Ken Noe
Just looked at Jackson's blog--he seems to think Jones is on his way back to Vegas.
2008-08-03 14:42:11
272.   MonkeyBlue
Nice inning for JJ again! not to see him settle down.
2008-08-03 14:42:35
273.   MonkeyBlue
272. nice*
2008-08-03 14:42:39
274.   alex 7
KG, the IF fly rule is so that the IFer can't drop the ball and get TWO outs - one on each of the two runners who were forced to stay on the base.
2008-08-03 14:43:11
275.   Kevin Lewis
so, if Furcal was healthy, would Pierre be starting?
2008-08-03 14:44:20
276.   cloakedarbiter
271 If it was pure speculation, I wonder if Tony Jackson thought that they might have been talking about Manny.
2008-08-03 14:44:58
277.   Gagne55
270 Nothing? Nada? Zilch?
2008-08-03 14:46:51
278.   MonkeyBlue
Pierre earn himself another start.
2008-08-03 14:47:53
279.   Ricardo
Ok, Pierre don´t make an out because I want to see Manny hitting in this inning.
2008-08-03 14:48:16
280.   Greg Brock
For those of you that have to go to work tomorrow, I'll let you know how the game ends.

Good lord.

2008-08-03 14:49:55
281.   underdog
280 I know, seriously. I'm telling you, Johnson is doing Kaz Ishii today in the slow pace department. And those 1-2-3 innings are tough to come by. Zzzz. Wake me up when we're in the 7th tonight.
2008-08-03 14:50:24
282.   underdog
275 - Dunno, but he wouldn't be leading off, that's for certain.
2008-08-03 14:51:07
283.   Gen3Blue
Tough break. That was hit on the screws, enabling a DP on JP and Kemp. We really need a few more runs, or to make Davis throw more pitches--damn, short inning.
2008-08-03 14:51:50
284.   Vishal
212 someone please explain to me how he isn't chaff. his hitting .345 in 30 at-bats is not sufficient proof.
2008-08-03 14:53:30
285.   Vishal
222 et al... what's vinny been sayin'?
2008-08-03 14:54:14
286.   alex 7
gen3, Davis is long gone.
2008-08-03 14:54:23
287.   Greg Brock
285 He did this sort of William F. Buckley blueblood Northeastern accent. It was most humorous.
2008-08-03 14:56:01
288.   Icaros
287

Quite a bit like Thurston Howell of Gilligan's Island fame, wouldn't you say?

2008-08-03 14:56:04
289.   Jacob Burch
He's OPSing over 800+ this year? An OPS+ of 121? He leads/ties the non-Manny's on the team in almost every offensive stat? I'm not in love with the dude, and I don't know if he was worth Meloan even by himself, but he certainly isn't on the ranks of Jeff Kent and Juan Pierre.
2008-08-03 14:56:25
290.   Vishal
287 man. i'd pay for the archive of the game on mlb.tv if i knew i could get vinny, but that's not a guarantee.
2008-08-03 14:57:14
291.   Greg Brock
288 Yes, there you go.
2008-08-03 14:57:22
292.   alex 7
change-up missed its spot. Drew would be our pre-Manny HR leader. He's going to be scary good for a SS next year.
2008-08-03 14:57:56
293.   underdog
Unlike their 3-4-5 hitters, Drew is wearing the Dodgers out.

I have a feeling we'll be seeing the Borg very soon.

2008-08-03 14:58:52
294.   underdog
288 Introduces Icaros to 229 .
2008-08-03 14:58:54
295.   Gen3Blue
The Pierre playing because we don't have another lead-off guy like Furcal is the kind of situation that has helped Joe avoid making the tough descisions. But by default he is making it anyway and it is not good.
2008-08-03 14:59:49
296.   Greg Brock
290 If FSN replays the game tomorrow, one could Tivo it.

It happened about six hours ago, in the second inning, I believe.

2008-08-03 14:59:51
297.   Gen3Blue
Not this series--not the Borg.
2008-08-03 15:00:05
298.   scareduck
Jason Johnson looks like he's a man with a heroin habit.
2008-08-03 15:00:18
299.   underdog
Oh for the love of... it's only the 5th inning!?
2008-08-03 15:00:37
300.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Tough for JJ to come out here. He didn't pitch poorly today.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-08-03 15:00:48
301.   Vishal
289 ok, i'll grant that he's slightly above league average. he's not a black hole like those two. the blake trade was still lousy though.
2008-08-03 15:02:28
302.   cloakedarbiter
300 He didn't pitch quickly, you mean.
2008-08-03 15:02:29
303.   underdog
I don't think the Blake trade was lousy. I just think losing LaRoche is lousy (even though I love Manny) as we don't have a suitable replacement for Blake after this season, except the other Blake.
2008-08-03 15:02:50
304.   Kevin Lewis
I still don't get the decision rule for the starting pitcher. So, you have to pitch five innings, but a closer could theoretically get the win with just one pitch.
2008-08-03 15:02:57
305.   Alex41592
One loud out.
2008-08-03 15:02:59
306.   MonkeyBlue
Big out!
2008-08-03 15:03:11
307.   scareduck
Replacing Johnson with Falkenborg is like throwing gasoline on a fire, discovering it doesn't put out the fire, and then throwing kerosene on it.
2008-08-03 15:03:39
308.   underdog
Jackson got under that one too much. {exhale}
2008-08-03 15:03:43
309.   Jacob Burch
301 I'm not much of a trade reactionary unless its involving a player I truly love, but I could never argue it being a slam dunk trade--and, if Blake ends up Type B, it'll probably be a loser.

Still, 121 OPS+ is a little bit better than "slightly above." I haven't checked it since the trade, but I believe his VORP was just slightly below Martin and Kemp's.

2008-08-03 15:03:47
310.   alex 7
do you offer Orlando Hudson 3/$21 this off- season? Have a MIF of Furcal / Hudson / Hu?

800+ OPS last 3 seasons. Good ob%, stick him in the 2-hole, drop Kemp into the middle of the lineup.

2008-08-03 15:04:09
311.   scareduck
303 - The Manny trade is awful if the Dodgers don't win it all.
2008-08-03 15:04:11
312.   underdog
298 Or one with diabetes?
2008-08-03 15:04:22
313.   Kevin Lewis
Random thought

Shouldn't Kemp start wearing a helmet that is one size smaller? I mean, the whole point is for protection on a thrown/batted ball, but if it always falls off when he runs, what is the point?

2008-08-03 15:04:34
314.   KG16
304 - got to go five as a starter because that's when a game becomes official.
2008-08-03 15:06:04
315.   Jacob Burch
311 I'll go on to say that while this should be the response, I'd be giddy at even a divisional series win.
2008-08-03 15:07:18
316.   Vishal
309 i'll say it again: his career OPS+ is 106, and he is 35 years old. i think 106 is probably closer to his true talent level than 121.
2008-08-03 15:07:42
317.   Alex41592
THE BORG!
2008-08-03 15:07:59
318.   underdog
My lord! This game is slower than a Theo Angelopoulos film.
2008-08-03 15:08:03
319.   MonkeyBlue
Nice! thats what a reliever all about!
2008-08-03 15:08:06
320.   scareduck
315 - trashing the best third base prospect in the league for a one-shot attempt at a divisional flag? That's an awfully low bar. But then, it also seems like Frank McCourt's bar is pretty low, too.
2008-08-03 15:08:39
321.   Greg Brock
Brian Falkenborg is the new Giovanni Carrara.
2008-08-03 15:09:42
322.   scareduck
318 - at least, it seems it takes as long to play as it does to say his name, anyway.
2008-08-03 15:09:50
323.   cloakedarbiter
Thank goodness that was strike 3. Not because no more runs would be put on the board in the 5th or not because Borg was making me feel uneasy. I couldn't keep my eyes open, the pitching has been so slow. In fact, I'll be back in the 7th.
2008-08-03 15:10:00
324.   Greg Brock
If Manny continues to rake, and the Dodgers make the postseason, McCourt will not let him walk.

He'd be crucified, and God forbid he pull a PR gaffe like that.

2008-08-03 15:11:55
325.   Frip
302 He didn't pitch quickly, you mean.

No doubt. When I was watching him I was like, I'm not going to spend a valuable Sunday afternoon watching some doofis PREPARE to pitch.

2008-08-03 15:12:09
326.   MonkeyBlue
Manny being Manny!
2008-08-03 15:12:18
327.   Alex41592
MANNY BEING MANNY ON A SHOT!
2008-08-03 15:12:21
328.   Andrew Shimmin
No school in Borneo tomorrow.
2008-08-03 15:12:26
329.   natepurcell
Move over Golden God, you have another deity to join you.
2008-08-03 15:12:30
330.   Bob Timmermann
There is a yellow alert for Manny Ramirez. This is a yellow alert.
2008-08-03 15:12:35
331.   scareduck
"He hits it into Mannyville, which I'm sure will be the left field pavilion."
2008-08-03 15:12:44
332.   cloakedarbiter
NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!
2008-08-03 15:12:48
333.   Greg Brock
You gotta be kidding me.
2008-08-03 15:13:10
334.   underdog
Uh.

Predator sure is fun to watch.

And can hit pretty well.

2008-08-03 15:13:11
335.   silverwidow
This is the greatest hitter I've ever seen.
2008-08-03 15:13:22
336.   alex 7
this is ridiculous. Piazza came close, but it's more fun to watch Manny hit.
2008-08-03 15:13:33
337.   scareduck
330 - Vinny picks up on the yellow alert.
2008-08-03 15:13:38
338.   thinkblue88
I <3 home runs.
2008-08-03 15:13:42
339.   natepurcell
331

If he stays here, Mannyville would be awesome.

2008-08-03 15:13:47
340.   68elcamino427
Manny Power!

Manny Love!

2008-08-03 15:13:56
341.   Jacob Burch
Manny has one triple this year, for those eager to see the cycle.
2008-08-03 15:14:07
342.   Kevin Lewis
nice shot

Are major league umpires getting more and more lazy?

Giles was just thrown out at second on a steal attempt, but the ump made no signal.

2008-08-03 15:14:12
343.   jasonungar07
To think 29 million for Jones/Schmidt next year. Ned is gone. Frank is thinking that's Manny's money.
2008-08-03 15:14:21
344.   Ken Noe
324 Rake like that??

Frank'll have to cut some payroll even beyond the players leaving, which could only mean moving one of Kuroda, Penny, Pierre, Jones. Hey, wait, I'm starting to like this.

2008-08-03 15:14:32
345.   Eric Stephen
I'd like to thank the Dodgers and D-Backs for taking their sweet time through the first 4.5 innings so I could watch Dark Knight and not miss much baseball.

I got to see bomb #2 for Manny. What a shot.

2008-08-03 15:14:40
346.   whodat807
Oh man, Manny. Fastballs, breaking balls - it doesn't matter with this guy.
2008-08-03 15:14:49
347.   underdog
Still trying to figure out 328 ...
2008-08-03 15:15:00
348.   Johnson
I wish all of our players didn't "hit home runs anymore".
2008-08-03 15:15:05
349.   MollyKnight
I knew this was going to happen. Absolutely no doubt in my mind the man would mash from Day 1, seemingly immune to a media frenzy and various head games that bury mere mortals.
2008-08-03 15:15:48
350.   alex 7
Loney needs about 10 pounds of muscle.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-08-03 15:16:39
351.   natepurcell
LA loves this guy.
2008-08-03 15:16:55
352.   MollyKnight
And, with that, Manny Ramirez has equaled Andruw Jones' season home run total in a weekend.
2008-08-03 15:17:06
353.   cloakedarbiter
345 I'm glad you spent your time wisely the first few innings. This game is taking forever.
2008-08-03 15:17:24
354.   Andrew Shimmin
347- I botched it a little bit.

http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2007/01/my-greatest-home-run-call.html

2008-08-03 15:17:27
355.   underdog
345 No game should take longer than The Dark Knight, yet alone half a game. But it's good for ya - you can think Jason Johnson and lots of offense.
2008-08-03 15:18:11
356.   KG16
it's a shame that the Bums couldn't steal the first game of this series. Still, I'll be happy with a split in this series and being one game back for the stretch.
2008-08-03 15:18:37
357.   Eric Stephen
Ramirez is so popular I'm going to start referring to him as Mannyrail!
2008-08-03 15:18:37
358.   Jacob Burch
Someone alreadymade the joke, but we should bring back Gio to complete the joke. I think that was one of the first side-complaints I ever made about baseball--outside of what ESPN and the 5x5 stats would have you believe--"Man this guy is the slowest pitcher on the planet." I dreaded a ball fouled off when I was at the Ravine.
2008-08-03 15:18:54
359.   scareduck
Kent might have had a good shot at scoring on that wild throw.
2008-08-03 15:19:04
360.   alex 7
no error on that? Blake took an extra base because of it
2008-08-03 15:19:14
361.   Vishal
352 put a good dent in his hit total, as well :P
2008-08-03 15:19:31
362.   cloakedarbiter
I have a friend who watched The Dark Knight three times. Before the opening weekend ended. This game might take as long as the aggregate runtime.
2008-08-03 15:19:48
363.   underdog
Thank, not think.

354 Ah, okay, I had heard that story before. I still can't figure out if Norm Tonucci was from Borneo, or why he had a following?

2008-08-03 15:19:57
364.   Greg Brock
There is only one person enjoying this more than Dodgers fans.

I'll give you a hint. He's an agent and eats small children while they sleep.

2008-08-03 15:20:33
365.   Ricardo
That Manny guy is the best I´ve ever seen wearing blue in my short dodger experience, since 2003.
2008-08-03 15:20:43
366.   whodat807
345 Seeing the Dark Knight and returning in time to watch Manny hit -- that's an overload of awesomeness.
2008-08-03 15:20:56
367.   underdog
357 But Main Street's all cracked and broken!
2008-08-03 15:21:24
368.   KG16
364 - he's an agent and eats small children while they sleep

Dude, this is LA, that's really not much of a hint.

2008-08-03 15:21:51
369.   Eric Stephen
This picture sums up my day pretty well.

http://tinyurl.com/69syxe

2008-08-03 15:22:04
370.   scareduck
367 - ??
2008-08-03 15:22:05
371.   thinkblue88
Wow, I fell asleep right at the start of the game, and wake up to Manny hitting a bomb! Kinda of a cool way to wake up.
2008-08-03 15:22:14
372.   Greg Brock
365 You should have seen the catcher that hit .360 with 40 bombs back in the '90's.

Nothing will ever be like peak years Piazza. It was astonishing.

2008-08-03 15:22:16
373.   ToyCannon
How can they make him cut his hair after a weekend like this?

They should post the question on Dodgers.com. I bet it would be 90/10 for letting him keep the dreadlocks. It is, who he is.

2008-08-03 15:22:21
374.   alex 7
squeeze here
2008-08-03 15:22:31
375.   scareduck
368 - LOL!
2008-08-03 15:22:57
376.   Tripon
So the D'Backs during the 4 games with the dodgers scored 2, 2, 2, and currently 3 runs. Is it safe to say that we effectively shut down their offense?
2008-08-03 15:23:02
377.   ToyCannon
365
How did you miss Beltre in 2004?
2008-08-03 15:23:06
378.   Greg Brock
368 Awesome.
2008-08-03 15:23:16
379.   68elcamino427
Happy Manny - Focused Manny - Reminds me of Hot Wheels Power!

Welcome to Mannyville!

2008-08-03 15:23:17
380.   KG16
370 - uh oh.

"A town with money is a lot like a donkey with a spinning wheel. No one knows how he got it, and darned if he knows what to do with it"

2008-08-03 15:23:37
381.   Vishal
364 i would've figured scott boras would at least wake them up first.
2008-08-03 15:23:42
382.   fracule
364 Chupacabra!!
2008-08-03 15:23:44
383.   alex 7
waste. what good reason is there to not squeeze there with Berroa and Sweeney coming up? What do you expect them to do, exactly, Torre?
2008-08-03 15:24:00
384.   Eric Stephen
370
The line in 367 should be followed with "Pipe down, Marge, the mob has spoken.
Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!"
2008-08-03 15:24:10
385.   scareduck
Sweeney is teh suck.
2008-08-03 15:24:23
386.   Bob Timmermann
380
It's a mule with a spinning wheel.
2008-08-03 15:24:57
387.   underdog
What's Sweeney's OPU up to now?
2008-08-03 15:25:19
388.   KG16
386 - d'oh
2008-08-03 15:25:37
389.   Greg Brock
Mark Sweeney is a pretty good hitter...

I'M BEING SARCASTIC UP THERE ^

2008-08-03 15:25:37
390.   fracule
Let us not forget Greenie's hay day.
2008-08-03 15:25:55
391.   68elcamino427
Regarding my previous comment regarding the import of who is the pinch hitter.
You can scratch that one.
2008-08-03 15:26:02
392.   KG16
might as well have let the Borg hit there. Probably would have been more effective.
2008-08-03 15:26:16
393.   Vishal
are good pinch hitters that hard to find? what's lenny harris up to these days?
2008-08-03 15:26:21
394.   Ricardo
372. It´s a shame I couldn´t see Piazza in blue, Greg. That time I even didn´t know about baseball or about the Dodgers, internet is such a great thing. Without it you can´t know anything about the MLB here.
2008-08-03 15:26:26
395.   underdog
Sorry, yeah I assumed everyone else had memorized the Monorail episode of The Simpsons, which is still my favorite next to the Planet of the Apes musical one.
2008-08-03 15:26:30
396.   cloakedarbiter
Hey, I haven't been to Dodger Stadium too often to realize this, but other than homerun balls, when do the lights on top of the pavilion seats blink during a game?
2008-08-03 15:26:49
397.   cloakedarbiter
396 *flicker
2008-08-03 15:27:06
398.   underdog
Mono... D'oh!
2008-08-03 15:27:37
399.   Jacob Burch
I run a fairly popular Simpsons message board, and its a wonderful time seeing fond memories of the Golden years instead of painful reminders of the shade-of-itself the show has become. Thanks to UD and Bob for this.
2008-08-03 15:27:43
400.   underdog
Sweeney's OPU is now up to .666, I believe.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-08-03 15:28:20
401.   scareduck
396 - I believe after a win, also.
2008-08-03 15:28:26
402.   underdog
How about a 1-2-3 inning Cory? For all that is holy and good in the world.
2008-08-03 15:28:36
403.   whodat807
Yay for Duke. I, of course, never got to see him play, but what a name: Duke Snider.
2008-08-03 15:28:43
404.   LoneStar7
so why is there no school in borneo tomorrow?
2008-08-03 15:28:43
405.   LoneStar7
so why is there no school in borneo tomorrow?
2008-08-03 15:28:50
406.   underdog
Sigh.

Or not.

2008-08-03 15:29:20
407.   KG16
395 - must... resist... temptation... to engage in Simpsons discussion.
2008-08-03 15:29:29
408.   cloakedarbiter
401 I think they're 0-4 when I attended.
2008-08-03 15:29:44
409.   underdog
404 See/read the link in 354 .
2008-08-03 15:29:54
410.   Alex41592
Nice DP.
2008-08-03 15:29:59
411.   MonkeyBlue
Double play!!!!! inning killer!
2008-08-03 15:30:17
412.   mattSD
Of course Marge V Monorail was great.

It was written by Conan O'Brien.

2008-08-03 15:30:22
413.   Tripon
Chris Young is horrible!
2008-08-03 15:30:53
414.   underdog
Nice! A 4-6-3 and let's get Young out to make this the rare quick inning.
2008-08-03 15:31:33
415.   underdog
412 - Yah pretty much all the Conan-scripted episodes are classics.
2008-08-03 15:32:55
416.   Jacob Burch
underdog a fan of Phil Hartman's best.
2008-08-03 15:33:07
417.   Gagne55
AKFCY
2008-08-03 15:33:14
418.   whodat807
Man, Chris Young is strug-uh-ling.

What do you think the odds are that Manny becomes a Los Angeles star on par with Kobe before this year is over?

2008-08-03 15:34:23
419.   Icaros
Juan being Juan.
2008-08-03 15:34:25
420.   MonkeyBlue
Pierre didn't waste any time on the plate.
2008-08-03 15:34:28
421.   natepurcell
That was such a feeble swing by Juan.

Ugh.

2008-08-03 15:34:35
422.   Greg Brock
You guys are taking advantage of Jon's absence by shamelessly engaging in Simpsons quotes.

I don't blame you. It's like a drug. But what's more like drugs are the drugs.

2008-08-03 15:34:53
423.   Ken Noe
He gets overlooked sometimes, but Cory Wade has been a darned good "young player" for this team.
2008-08-03 15:34:55
424.   KG16
418 - he's going to need to hit home runs to win the division, the division series, the NLCS, and the World Series to get into the conversation. All while Kobe is leading Team USA to a gold medal in Beging.
2008-08-03 15:34:55
425.   cloakedarbiter
Adrian Beltre wasn't on par with Kobe even in 2004.
2008-08-03 15:35:11
426.   underdog
416- Of course! All things Hartman.

Btw, did you ever notice how Billy West's voice work for Zapp Brannigan on Futurama sounded like Hartman's on the Simpsons?

2008-08-03 15:36:10
427.   underdog
422 How about Simpsons quotes about drugs? Kill two birds with one stone.
2008-08-03 15:36:18
428.   Greg Brock
426 It was supposed to be played by Hartman.
2008-08-03 15:36:24
429.   cloakedarbiter
419-421 He already got a hit and earned the leadoff spot for the rest of the week.
2008-08-03 15:36:32
430.   KG16
422 - just say no, my friend, just say no.
2008-08-03 15:36:58
431.   MannyElRey
Manny needs to be signed next year just for the bobblehead possibilities alone.
2008-08-03 15:37:53
432.   JoeyP
8 pitch inning.
2008-08-03 15:38:07
433.   cloakedarbiter
424 The Dream Team, the Redeem Team, the Redream Team.
2008-08-03 15:38:16
434.   Jacob Burch
I'd venture to say both belong in the top 4 or 5 of voice actors of the post-Mel Blanc era. Phil wasn't one to really change his voice as some of the other greats, but his quick wit and mastery of inflection is hard to beat.
2008-08-03 15:38:23
435.   Gagne55
427 Mark McGuire: Do you want to know the horrible truth? ... Or do you want to see me hit some dingers?!
2008-08-03 15:38:28
436.   underdog
428 - Ah! Of course. It was a great homage to him, then.

I actually didn't mind the 1-2-3 there, if for no other reason than to speed this freakin' game up so I can maybe, perhaps, leave here at some point.

2008-08-03 15:38:45
437.   LoneStar7
409 thats hysterical
2008-08-03 15:38:55
438.   cloakedarbiter
431 No! We want our Joe Beimel Bobbleheads next year too!
2008-08-03 15:39:05
439.   Kevin Lewis
I asked this a while back, but I never saw an answer. Do other teams have the kind of security we have sitting on the field? Why did we start having 4-6 guys sitting on the field all the time?
2008-08-03 15:39:41
440.   Gen3Blue
418 I think he already is!

I also think I'm beginning to get the strategy. The more important the pitch hitting situation (say 2 runners in scoring position) find the guy with the lowest average (say .118) because he is DUE!!

2008-08-03 15:40:10
441.   underdog
And I should say we're talking about ""The Man with No Name, Zapp Brannigan."
2008-08-03 15:40:55
442.   Jacob Burch
438
Bobblehead#1: Beimel takes a rare at-bat, first 50,000
Bobblehead#2: Joe on the computer, first 50,000
Bobblehead#3: Joe at his hotel room, first 15,000 fans over 21.
2008-08-03 15:42:06
443.   Tripon
Kevin Conroy is the best voice actor ever. If only because he voiced Batman/Bruce Wayne in all of the Batman: The Animated Series and spinoffs. For me, he was batman even when George Clooney and Joel Schumacher was mucking up the character.
2008-08-03 15:42:51
444.   Sharkie
The LF Pavillion shouldn't be Mannyville. It should be Goons Over My Manny.
2008-08-03 15:43:03
445.   cloakedarbiter
442 Since Dodger Stadium is selling out 55,000 fans a game because of Manny, I'd better get to the ballpark early.
2008-08-03 15:43:19
446.   twerp
352 Someone said on DT the day of the trade that Manny should get to LA that day so he could be introduced to the Snakes.

They're very well acquainted with him now.

2008-08-03 15:43:31
447.   Tripon
439 The city did a study a while back noting that Dodgers stadium was one of the more vulnerable sites behind LAX. Better to be safe than sorry I guess.

And wow, I hope Cory Wade's safe. Looks like he is.

2008-08-03 15:43:43
448.   Gagne55
442 Does bobblehead #3 have liquor holding capabilities?
2008-08-03 15:43:53
449.   cloakedarbiter
That was a scare, what a stiff arm
2008-08-03 15:44:00
450.   underdog
Stupid Drew. Hitting well and now trying to kill our pitchers.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-08-03 15:44:12
451.   KG16
Kuo getting work on back to back days?
2008-08-03 15:44:31
452.   whodat807
443 I'm not sure about best ever, but you're right, Conroy is fantastic. Watching the Dark Knight, I kept trying to patch over Bale's ridiculous "GRRR I'M A MONSTER" Batman voice with Conroy's definitive version.
2008-08-03 15:44:32
453.   Gagne55
447 What? Line drive off Corey Wade?
2008-08-03 15:45:57
454.   underdog
453 - Yep, a shot right at his ear practically, that he protectively got his glove on and deflected it. Looks like he's okay but they're pulling him for Kuo.
2008-08-03 15:45:59
455.   Tripon
453 Yeah, but Cory Wade was able to block it with his glove. Torre pulled him to make sure he's okay, and put Kuo in the game right now.
2008-08-03 15:46:26
456.   Jacob Burch
448 Yes, like a J&R Liquor Lad whiskey bottle.
2008-08-03 15:46:39
457.   JoeyP
Kuo better get Hudson, bc you dont want a lefty facing Conor Jackson.

Jackson OPS's 1.122 off of them.

2008-08-03 15:46:50
458.   Eric Stephen
452
Bale's Batman voice was hard to take. It seemed so fake.
2008-08-03 15:47:07
459.   Tripon
And 1 pitch gets us out of the inning.
2008-08-03 15:47:45
460.   cloakedarbiter
I was in Taiwan last week, and baseball fans are about as enthused of Kuo and Chien-Ming Wang as Dodger fans are becoming of Manny. Although, Taiwan's ESPN still shows the YES Network every day. Newspaper sports highlights essentially chart the progress of Wang and the Dodgers' bullpen. Park must have been much blamed of allowing Kuo's inherited runner last night.
2008-08-03 15:48:34
461.   underdog
So top 5 cartoon voice actors ever...?

1) Mel Blanc.
2) Billy West
3) Kevin Conroy
4) Phil Hartman (and frankly the rest of the Simpsons cast)
5 and...?

Don't forget June Foray!

2008-08-03 15:49:00
462.   cloakedarbiter
Identify as many prepositional errors as you can in my last post, and I'll give you a gold star.
2008-08-03 15:49:03
463.   Tripon
Who's in line for the win? Falkenborg?
2008-08-03 15:49:21
464.   Who Is Karim Garcia
452

Agreed. It was the only part of the movie that was terrible. Well that and the fact that Maggie Gyllenhaal looked atrocious.

2008-08-03 15:49:22
465.   Kevin Lewis
does anyone here use Delicious Library for the mac?
2008-08-03 15:49:47
466.   Greg Brock
One may or may not like Family Guy, but Seth MacFarlane is an amazing voice actor.
2008-08-03 15:49:57
467.   Tripon
Manny's at bat again!
2008-08-03 15:51:14
468.   cloakedarbiter
So... what should Manny do? Go for the triple, or keep his 4-year streak of 1 triple per year?
2008-08-03 15:51:34
469.   Who Is Karim Garcia
465

I just purchased it.

2008-08-03 15:51:41
470.   Kevin Lewis
447

I can see that I guess. I am always amazed at how easy it would be to sneak a gun into the stadium.

2008-08-03 15:52:18
471.   cloakedarbiter
"Aha. A human being. One away."

And the fans applaud his strikeout anyway.

2008-08-03 15:52:36
472.   Kevin Lewis
469

Have you started cataloging things yet, or is it still being installed/learned?

Worth it?

2008-08-03 15:53:15
473.   Eric Stephen
Post 470 will be Exhibit A in The United States v. Kevin Lewis.

I hope Jon doesn't have to testify.

2008-08-03 15:53:16
474.   Tripon
471 Manny is as loved, as Andruw Jones is as hated.
2008-08-03 15:54:03
475.   Icaros
Nice game, James.
2008-08-03 15:54:38
476.   68elcamino427
#7 James Loney - Double - Oppo!
2008-08-03 15:55:00
477.   Kevin Lewis
Does anyone play "Out of the Park Baseball"?
2008-08-03 15:55:08
478.   Jacob Burch
Bale's voice probably has some basis in the darker c. 1980s Graphic Novels, but didn't need to be taken that far. I was fine with it, but can see where people aren't.

I also think people against Maggie are nuts, but to each their own.

I used the delicious library trial when it first came out and was in love with it, and had I had the money in my account, would have paid for it. Something I just may sink some cash into once these two darn essays are done.

2008-08-03 15:55:26
479.   cloakedarbiter
474 In an alternate universe where Andruw hits his 3rd homerun of the season, I'm sure fans will boo.
2008-08-03 15:56:24
480.   MonkeyBlue
Yes! nice hit Casey!
2008-08-03 15:56:34
481.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think the Dodgers worry about a gun being smuggled in as much as they worry about yahoos who go running on the field.

A couple years ago that was all the rage. That was really embarrassing.

So much alcohol do you have to consume before engaging in a foolhardy act like running on the field?

2008-08-03 15:56:37
482.   LoneStar7
why does loney bat behind kent?
2008-08-03 15:56:50
483.   68elcamino427
Blake - RBI Single - Oppo!
2008-08-03 15:56:51
484.   Who Is Karim Garcia
469

I'm a school teacher so I used it to keep track of all my books, videos and other things that I check out to my kids. I love the thing. By the middle of the year my kids have learned to check books and and out by themselves.

2008-08-03 15:56:52
485.   nick
finally, some positive older role models!
2008-08-03 15:57:25
486.   Bob Timmermann
477
Sam DC and I are in a league together.

Our teams aren't very good. So we tend to make trades with each other so we can have complementary weaknesses.

2008-08-03 15:57:28
487.   KG16
465 - haven't heard of it before, checking it out now
2008-08-03 15:57:46
488.   Tripon
479 The fans will boo him if Andruw Jones hits a grand slam to win the world series. There's just no way that relationship can be saved.

And Berroa gets a hit!

2008-08-03 15:57:57
489.   thinkblue88
HCK!
2008-08-03 15:58:04
490.   Greg Brock
Everybody hits!

Yes, even you, Angel.

2008-08-03 15:58:29
491.   Tripon
Finally, Kuo gets an at bat!
2008-08-03 15:58:35
492.   underdog
Russell and Manny seem like best buds already.

--

Snipes Sr!

2008-08-03 15:58:56
493.   68elcamino427
Berroa - Single up the middle - Wow!
2008-08-03 15:59:22
494.   underdog
Time for a bat flip!
2008-08-03 15:59:50
495.   Tripon
Well, that was oddly disappointing. I was waiting for a 3-run homer for Kuo. :(
2008-08-03 16:00:03
496.   underdog
...or not.
2008-08-03 16:00:05
497.   twerp
355 "you can think Jason Johnson and lots of offense."

363 "Thank, not think."

Reminds me of back in the Dark Ages in elementary school, when a classmate was asked to conjugate the verb think.

His response: "think...thank...thunk. Is that right?"

2008-08-03 16:01:51
498.   Icaros
Russell and Manny seem like best buds already.

Pot reference aside, I can totally see Russ growing his own dreads this offseason.

2008-08-03 16:03:23
499.   Marty
I have a friend who has done a lot of voice work. He idolizes Billy West.
2008-08-03 16:05:49
500.   Kuo-fax
498 - Maybe it'll catch on and become a team thing. I can see it in '09 - Those Dreaded Dodgers!
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2008-08-03 16:08:02
501.   Kevin Lewis
486

Is it a yearly fee or just a one time cost?

2008-08-03 16:08:09
502.   Gen3Blue
Do they really want to be using Kuo on consecutive days. I mean I love it, but don't they suspect starting or long relief may be best for his arm?
2008-08-03 16:09:36
503.   Linkmeister
I haven't tried Delicious, but Library Thing is $25 for a lifetime membership, and it's excellent. I've been using it since two weeks after it came out in 2005.

http://www.librarything.com

2008-08-03 16:09:51
504.   Tripon
502 Off day tomorrow, I sure they feel the risk is worth it.
2008-08-03 16:10:50
505.   Kevin Lewis
Well, I am purposely running my battery down to nothing on the laptop, so I will be seeing you all later.
2008-08-03 16:11:37
506.   Who Is Karim Garcia
It's a one time fee, free upgrades for life.
2008-08-03 16:12:04
507.   underdog
498 Totally. Since his hair and facial hair seem like constant works in progress, or he's willing to do anything, I wouldn't put it past him. He's like that bald headed guy magnet toy, whatever that was called.
2008-08-03 16:12:59
508.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Delicious Library is the winner, especially if you have a Mac with a built-in iSight. It will scan the barcodes and auto download all the pertinent information from Amazon.
2008-08-03 16:13:11
509.   68elcamino427
Didn't see that coming Juan.
2008-08-03 16:14:08
510.   thinkblue88
Bison Power.
2008-08-03 16:14:14
511.   cloakedarbiter
Juan ran his heart out. Sometimes effort counts more than the result. Only players with effort will become the heart and soul of a ballclub.
2008-08-03 16:14:18
512.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Kemp being Manny.
2008-08-03 16:14:20
513.   natepurcell
That was beautiful.
2008-08-03 16:14:23
514.   MonkeyBlue
Bison power! unleashed!
2008-08-03 16:14:26
515.   68elcamino427
Bison Bomb - Oppo!
2008-08-03 16:14:31
516.   Eric Stephen
Not only does Kemp hit a HR, he assures another Manny AB! Bison!
2008-08-03 16:14:45
517.   Andrew Shimmin
Looked a good eighty rows deep in the pavilion.
2008-08-03 16:15:02
518.   underdog
BISON POWER!™
2008-08-03 16:15:12
519.   Greg Brock
Speaking of basketball players, Sasha was at the bar in Manhattan Beach last night where my friend held his party. He was tight t-shirt douchey hat guy. I was most disappointed.
2008-08-03 16:15:19
520.   MollyKnight
Atta boy, Bison!
2008-08-03 16:15:45
521.   Icaros
Bison defeats Gigantor!
2008-08-03 16:15:47
522.   MonkeyBlue
Vinny he runs like a locomotive not some weak wind!
2008-08-03 16:15:58
523.   Who Is Karim Garcia
No crossing swords, please.
2008-08-03 16:15:59
524.   natepurcell
519

I would love to party with Sasha for a night.

2008-08-03 16:16:03
525.   Damon
This Matt Kemp kid is pretty good
2008-08-03 16:16:11
526.   Luis Chavez
517
LOL.
2008-08-03 16:16:36
527.   cloakedarbiter
It wasn't the Bison's power. It was Manny's bat rubbed against the Bison's bat.
2008-08-03 16:18:23
528.   Linkmeister
Library Thing uses a CueCat to read barcodes.
2008-08-03 16:19:15
529.   Bob Timmermann
Cycle alert canceled. Stand down.
2008-08-03 16:19:20
530.   underdog
4 HRs in the last two games, actually, Vin.
2008-08-03 16:19:21
531.   68elcamino427
Manny being Kemp
2008-08-03 16:19:50
532.   underdog
Aw! Let him run for a couple more bases, Arizona!
2008-08-03 16:19:58
533.   MonkeyBlue
HAHAHAHAHAH! Wow!
2008-08-03 16:20:04
534.   thinkblue88
GaaaaaaaaaaWaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa??!!!?!?

OZUNA!!!

2008-08-03 16:20:14
535.   68elcamino427
Oz to the wall in center! Triple!
2008-08-03 16:20:15
536.   Icaros
What drug have I just taken?
2008-08-03 16:20:15
537.   Greg Brock
Everybody is being other people!
2008-08-03 16:20:17
538.   natepurcell
Pabbbbbloooooo.
2008-08-03 16:20:22
539.   Jacob Burch
"Oh Ozuna, -here's- some power" I say oh jokingly.
2008-08-03 16:20:43
540.   GMac In The 909
Pablo Power™!
2008-08-03 16:20:53
541.   underdog
LOL. That was hilarious. Ozuna showing more power than Kent. And he gets Manny's triple.
2008-08-03 16:21:08
542.   cloakedarbiter
Hey, Ozuna stole Manny's triple! Only Manny would have Dennis Rodman-ed into third.
2008-08-03 16:21:15
543.   Ken Noe
Pablo being Manny.
2008-08-03 16:22:25
544.   Who Is Karim Garcia
543

Manny doesnt hit triples. I love the way Pablo stuck the landing.

2008-08-03 16:22:26
545.   underdog
That's Ozuna's 7th career triple, if you're scoring at home.
2008-08-03 16:22:26
546.   Gen3Blue
As Vin is trying to impress on almost impervious ears, yes Kemp is a complete package with great potential. A complete package with good potential is Andre Ethier.
Those who have seen him make a good play in right field and throw a man out at the plate know the pleasure of seeing a young player develop into someone who executes marvelously on both sides of the ball, and joins the nucleus of a good young team.
2008-08-03 16:23:35
547.   Gen3Blue
504 Good point.
2008-08-03 16:23:37
548.   Greg Brock
This is an existential crisis.
2008-08-03 16:24:04
549.   Ken Noe
544 Pablo generically being Manny.
2008-08-03 16:24:24
550.   cloakedarbiter
544 What are you talking about? Manny has 18 career triples! I don't know what Pablo was doing thinking 3rd base was his queen-sized twin bed.
Show/Hide Comments 551-600
2008-08-03 16:24:49
551.   Eric Ferrari
Damn this is fun. I'm jealous that those bastards in Boston had it this good for 7+ years.
2008-08-03 16:24:54
552.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Tron Tron.
2008-08-03 16:25:31
553.   cloakedarbiter
If you bring in Andruw to field center, at least bring in Ethier's arm too. C'mon.
2008-08-03 16:25:50
554.   underdog
Tee-hee, the Mets got swept by the Astros.
2008-08-03 16:26:15
555.   Ken Noe
Swap Ethier for JP and this team could win a lot of games in the next two or three months.
2008-08-03 16:26:56
556.   68elcamino427
Oz showing what could be on D
2008-08-03 16:27:56
557.   D4P
I find it a bit surprising that "douchey" is acceptable around here, given that the first letter from that word combined with the word "bag" gets censored...
2008-08-03 16:27:57
558.   Penguin
i thought the white sox were gonna trade Uribe, rather than lose Ozuna
2008-08-03 16:28:02
559.   Tripon
Did Vin say that Broxton was warming up today? That scares me more than using Kuo in relief back to back.
2008-08-03 16:29:25
560.   underdog
559 - I didn't see it if he was.
2008-08-03 16:29:47
561.   cloakedarbiter
555 Torre won't even swap them in the outfield. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if Andre resented doing anything besides start for a team that benches him in favor of less productive players.
2008-08-03 16:30:31
562.   Penguin
559 - i think Broxton was gonna come in until the Dodgers added 2 more last inning
2008-08-03 16:31:32
563.   MannyElRey
492 Manny and Russell got to know each other this past off season working out at Athlete's Performance in AZ.
2008-08-03 16:32:21
564.   underdog
C'mon Troncoso, it's 9-3, throw strikes!
2008-08-03 16:32:33
565.   scareduck
That was enjoyable.
2008-08-03 16:33:00
566.   Eric Stephen
Back to within a game! Off to America's Best Fans.
2008-08-03 16:33:24
567.   underdog
That's what I'm talking about. Thanks, Tron Tron.

We win!

And we can all get on with our lives.

2008-08-03 16:33:27
568.   Tripon
Manny's 8-13 with the Dodgers. Yikes. Batting Average may be an empty stat, but a .615 average isn't that empty.
2008-08-03 16:33:45
569.   madmac
hey, since Manny has already gotten 2 of the 2/3 wins he was supposed to be worth, should we trade him now.
2008-08-03 16:34:25
570.   cloakedarbiter
That was a great latter half of a game. The first four innings lasted a day, and then blink, the game was over. Quite enjoyable indeed.

Even though many commentators here are out on a Sunday afternoon, the mood around here seemed a lot more positive after today.

Then again, that's usually what happens when you win...

2008-08-03 16:34:32
571.   NWdodger
Did someone play a cruel trick on me, or did Andruw Jones really accept a minor league assignment?
2008-08-03 16:34:45
572.   Ken Noe
These next few weeks might actually be fun.
2008-08-03 16:38:23
573.   D4P
One thing the Dodgers will have to overcome to win the division is a bad home-road split the rest of the way.

The Dodgers have played 7 more home games and seven fewer road games than the DBacks this year.

2008-08-03 16:40:04
574.   Tripon
ESPN says that Wade got the win. Woot!
2008-08-03 16:45:45
575.   underdog
Some very fun and funny comments from Red Sox fans watching the Dodgers/Manny after the Sox game had ended here:

http://tinyurl.com/5eoygu

2008-08-03 16:47:23
576.   underdog
573 - Definitely. And heading to St. Louis first where they have had plenty of trouble in recent years.

Having Manny with them now will help a lot. I'll worry more about their pitching on the road.

2008-08-03 16:47:54
577.   D4P
Did Boras make a special trip to LA to meet with Torre, or does the Boss of the Gloss live in SoCal...?
2008-08-03 16:50:19
578.   Eric Stephen
577
Isn't his office in Newport Beach?
2008-08-03 16:51:36
579.   Bob Hendley
264 - Bob. did you see the Romero incident yesterday when he bunted and then the ball hit his bat again will he was still in the batter's box? I recall that the ball hit the ground fair before it hit his bat again. I was wondering, if had been in the air, does Martin have a preferred right to catch it before Romero might hit it again would that be CI? Is intent an issue?
2008-08-03 16:52:18
580.   Tripon
Yeah, Boras headquarters is in Newport Beach. And Andruw Jones should be in the minors so we can call Hu up to start at SS. Seeing Berroa's name everyday makes me wince.
2008-08-03 16:52:25
581.   D4P
My grand-uncle lives in Newport Beach, apparently not too far from Kobe's house. Which is kind of ironic because I have an uncle who lives close to Shaq's house in Orlando.
2008-08-03 16:52:41
582.   Jacob Burch
577 He--and for the next two months, Tex--live in a house somewhere in the LA area.
2008-08-03 16:53:27
583.   Jacob Burch
581 Bob Timmerman review of Irony request, please.
2008-08-03 16:56:43
584.   ChicagoDodger
At the risk of over-exaggeration, is this the best trade the Dodgers have ever made given who they acquired, who they gave up, and the situation they were in at the time of the trade?

I am only asking. Anyone have one that quickly comes to mind that rivals this?

2008-08-03 16:59:21
585.   bhsportsguy
566 I said on Thursday night that I would be happy with getting a split after the first game loss and it did not look good after Friday's night game but in less than 24 hours Manny hits two homers, the bullpen does the job and the Dodgers win two games this week started by Jason Johnson.
2008-08-03 17:01:53
586.   bhsportsguy
584 Jon would say and I might agree that it was the Pedro Guerrero deal.
2008-08-03 17:06:00
587.   ChicagoDodger
586 But did the Dodgers know what they were getting when they traded for Guerrero? Like they knew what they were getting in Manny?
2008-08-03 17:08:07
588.   Alex41592
April 3, 1974: Traded by the Cleveland Indians to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Bruce Ellingsen

Guerrero was 17 when they traded for him.

2008-08-03 17:11:41
589.   TheDictator
Quick Q:

Does Manny officially have 2 hrs because of his move to the NL or does his AL hrs combine with his NL hrs in his official line?

Just wondering.

2008-08-03 17:15:05
590.   D4P
To what, exactly, is St. Louis the gateway...?
2008-08-03 17:15:27
591.   Kuo-fax
I see people mentioning Jones in the minors.

Is there a link to this, or are we just experimenting with wishful thinking? I could be on board with that, maybe the hundred monkey thing, starts with DT posters, a couple more articles in the Times, and voila, Torre and Coletti get aboard!

2008-08-03 17:23:24
592.   Eric Stephen
589
Manny is officially 30 HR behind the NL leader Adam Dunn.

For instance, Mark McGwire hit 58 HR in 1997, most in MLB, but led neither league (34 in the LA, 24 in the NL)

2008-08-03 17:26:26
593.   Tripon
591 Its just speculation at this point, but there was a closed door meeting between Boras, and Torre. http://www.insidesocal.com/dodgers/

Tony Jackson has the details.

2008-08-03 17:28:21
594.   Charenton
590

The Gateway to the West. I think that Lewis & Clark started their trek in St Louis (?)…

2008-08-03 17:31:24
595.   Tripon
Is there a chance Kershaw could get bumped into the bullpen? Whats his innings count?
2008-08-03 17:36:09
596.   Eric Stephen
595
He's at 115 IP right now. He has 10 starts at most left in the season, so he's well within range of the ~170 IP range allotted for him.
2008-08-03 17:37:06
597.   Kuo-fax
593 - Aha! Thanks, now it makes sense. I can't see why they wouldn't do that, seems like a win-win, he goes down and rediscovers his swing/confidence and we're in great situation come September! Well, that is, if he finds his swing...
2008-08-03 17:44:20
598.   Lexinthedena
Manny, Kemp, and Laroche go yard today. Awesome.Now if Ethier could get into the lineup it would be perfect.
2008-08-03 17:54:28
599.   Tripon
Kinda interesting that Juan Pierre has a 8 game hitting streak but he only gets that one hit per game.
2008-08-03 17:55:21
600.   Bob Timmermann
As stated above, St. Louis is the Gateway to the West. Underneath the Gateway Arch is a museum about the Louisiana Purchase and westward expansion.

The theme has changed a bit over the years.

However, Minneapolis calls itself the "First City of the West" and St. Paul is the "Last City of the East." When I was in the Twin Cities, I couldn't tell the difference, but I was told that St. Paul plows its streets betters and makes nicer corners.

St. Louis, for all of my complaints, isn't the worst big city in America. Cleveland won that title in a runaway. Detroit may also be ahead if you change the population minimum.

Show/Hide Comments 601-650
2008-08-03 17:58:03
601.   Eric Stephen
599
Pierre was 0-1 Friday night.
2008-08-03 18:01:42
602.   D4P
I've been under the impression that Detroit is much worse than Cleveland.
2008-08-03 18:03:14
603.   Tripon
http://minors.baseball-reference.com/players.cgi?pid=13002

Well, Carlos Santana's still tearing it up. Eek.

2008-08-03 18:03:32
604.   Bob Timmermann
Detroit is better because it has more places to eat when I'm hungry.

And the city didn't give me a metaphorical slap in the face when I arrived as Cleveland did.

2008-08-03 18:04:00
605.   D4P
Didn't know Andy went deep today. Nice.
2008-08-03 18:07:55
606.   D4P
Just saw this today:

East Fourth St. is a popular spot in downtown Cleveland, an alley lined with tables from onlooking restaurants. A recent renovation has resulted in an explosion of flowers.

http://tinyurl.com/boblovescleveland

2008-08-03 18:12:25
607.   dzzrtRatt
600 But, really, isn't Los Angeles the worst big city in the America?

I mean, I've lived around here for most of my life and probably will never leave. There are many, many things I love about it. But just considering it as a city, meaning it's livability, quality of public services, costs of living and doing business, environmental factors, political culture, public safety, does it get any worse?

There is the climate. That's a huge plus, but we didn't do a thing to earn it except, I suppose, steal water to make it habitable.

I'm no Mike Davis, but I don't think there is a city in America with the sheer number and magnitude of problems of LA, and the utter inability to pull together to do anything about them. I could be wrong.

That's one of the reasons the Manny trade has galvanized the fans. We're not just talking about a team's salvation. We're talking about a whole city's. Manny's the best thing to happen to LA since I don't know when.

2008-08-03 18:15:43
608.   Jacob Burch
A lot of right can undo a lot of wrong.

With all its problem, there are plenty of people who come to LA (or are born into it) and Can't see themselves leaving. I don't think that's ever been true of Detroit, St.Louis or Cleveland.

I said it earlier this week, Phil Ochs and Randy Newman give us a bad wrap!

2008-08-03 18:16:53
609.   Gen3Blue
I know very little about football and less about the current situation. But I sense a very wierd and sinister situation with Brett Favre. Is there anywhere an article I could read for background on the matter, and I mean something like 10 or 12 columns in the New Yorker and not a few paragraphs with glossy photos. Before you laugh at the New Yorker for sports remember some of pieces by Roger Angel and others.
2008-08-03 18:22:00
610.   Tripon
http://www.mlbnewsonline.com/2008/08/ned-colletti-is-not-genius.html

Looks like it was McCourt was GMing the Manny trade, and not Ned. And he picked Bryan Morris over Hu to trade along with LaRoche.

2008-08-03 18:28:52
611.   Indiana Jon
607 I've lived in Detroit, and although I've ever only spent a week in LA, it is quite obvious that Detroit is a worse city. Before I lived there, I used to love vacationing there because it felt so good when I left and made Indiana feel that much better. Bob's right though, they have very good food up there.
2008-08-03 18:29:53
612.   bhsportsguy
610 I had someone on the Dodgers tell me that Frank McCourt was preparing for the WBC press conference when he was pulled aside at or near the deadline and told about the deal. Outside of the baseball operations people, no one knew anything about this deal until it happened.

Now Bob Nightengale (not a huge fan of the Dodgers in his days as a local beat reporter) may have his sources but I think stories like that one on that site always have an agenda behind them (like wanting Ned Colletti to get fired).

2008-08-03 18:30:16
613.   Bob Hendley
594 - Lewis began his part of the journey from Washington, DC to Pittsburgh where he floated down the Ohio River to Clarksville, Indiana (Territory). There he met up with Clark. The town was named after his older brother, the Revolutionary War General George Rogers Clark. St. Louis was the last town of any size on the Mississippi going northward and was clearly considered to be the jumping off spot into the vast West. At the time, it had a population of about 1,000.
2008-08-03 18:30:26
614.   underdog
Nice of the always melodramatic Tony Jackson to let us know, after their win today, LA is "still in this thing."

--

610 Cool. We get to enjoy Manny mashing and then Colletti's firing after the season's over anyway.

2008-08-03 18:32:35
615.   underdog
Detroit is the most depressing city I've ever been to in my life. It's truly sad, many parts of it look bombed out though I'm sure there are other parts that have since been rebuilt. But as blah as Cleveland is at least they've given it some life downtown. But I can't say anything good about Detroit other than that it has a very interesting cultural history.
2008-08-03 18:35:44
616.   bhsportsguy
614 So we either believe what Ned Colletti said on his interview that day where he received a call from Theo Epstein at 10:00 a.m. (we'll assume PDT since we live in that time zone) and wanted to know if the Dodgers would be interested in Manny Ramirez and it went from there. Or we believe a story on a side called Fire Ned Colletti who is quoting a national baseball writer who spoke on the radio.
2008-08-03 18:36:00
617.   Bob Hendley
608 - LA gets off easy from Mr. Newman's sharp wit. Try being Cleveland or Baltimore.
2008-08-03 18:37:40
618.   Bob Hendley
61 - Better not put that to a vote here.
2008-08-03 18:38:20
619.   Bob Hendley
618 - Meant 616.
2008-08-03 18:46:02
620.   Penarol1916
615. I find Atlanta and Houston to be much more depressing than Detroit, but that's just because they lack almost everything I like about a big city, while containing just about everything I hate about cities and throwing in god awful weather.
2008-08-03 18:49:49
621.   Indiana Jon
620 Atlanta and Houston have god awful weather, but Detroit doesn't? Maybe hockey fans would agree, but I think the average American would rather have the warmer climate.
2008-08-03 18:52:05
622.   D4P
Doesn't the Midwest have bad weather for all but about 3 months of the year...?
2008-08-03 18:55:08
623.   Strike4
I sat under the Duke Snider sign in left today, in the shade luckily. Manny is focused in the field. Boy, what an unbelievable hitter. I got giddy watching Kemp and Pierre standing together in center while Kuo came in and warmed up during the 6th. Matt was obviously demonstrating the Manny level complete shoulder turn to Pierre that we all witnessed again in the 5th. I almost stood up and yelled "Do it Matt, do it!" And it didn't take Matt long. With the pressure transferred away from the young guys now, they may really take off.
2008-08-03 18:56:30
624.   Jacob Burch
As far as Manny's hair cut goes, I think it was happening post-game today--or not at all.

Here's hoping we get a haircut you can set your watch to.

2008-08-03 19:12:04
625.   timm
That would take a huge set for Ned to come on all the local radio shows and take credit for the Manny deal.
2008-08-03 19:17:09
626.   Strike4
623 Memory a bit faulty; Kuo came in in the 7th.
2008-08-03 19:17:34
627.   Penarol1916
622. I can deal with winter with no problem, it is obscene humidity in temperatures consistently above 85 that bothers me more than anything. Plus, there is just the fact that those two cities are a the complete antithesis of everything a city should be.
2008-08-03 19:19:49
628.   silverwidow
603 Santana is a 22-year-old in A ball. If he can keep up that performance Double-A, then he's probably for real.
2008-08-03 19:27:29
629.   natepurcell
There are going to be some sluggers on the free agent market this offseason...

Tex
ManRam
Dunn
Burrell
Delgado
Ibanez
Bradley

2008-08-03 19:33:39
630.   Alex41592
R.I.P Skip Carey
2008-08-03 19:50:23
631.   Tripon
Dunn's like the white elephant.
2008-08-03 19:50:50
632.   Gen3Blue
If one wants to get another bat for next year, probably consider 3rd, SS or 2nd.
Martin and Loney are too good values to think about replacing. An outfielder will probably cause this organization to force Jones or Pierre into a permanent position.
I personally think SS is a position where good defense like Hu or DeJesus is more crucial than offense. So that gives us 3rd or 2nd as a position to add a bat. Any ideas?
2008-08-03 19:55:26
633.   Vishal
631 i don't suppose that's your polite way of saying he's pale and fat, is it?
2008-08-03 20:05:48
634.   Howard Fox
632 any ideas? yeah...

if it were me, I'd be talking with Boras right this minute to find out what it will take to keep Manny beyond this season....

and then I'd agree to it...I haven't seen the team or the fans or the city this excited and upbeat in many many years...

he has done what all the other free agent signings were intended to do...take the pressure off the younger players...you will see them all take off now...the pundits will be shocked by the result

2008-08-03 20:09:05
635.   Howard Fox
the price will only hurt for one year, then Schmidt, Jones, Kent, Lowe, Furcal, Nomar all come off the books

and I don't care about year 4 when he is 40....we are players and winners and contenders in the meantime

2008-08-03 20:11:34
636.   KG16
631 - From wikipedia: A white elephant is a valuable possession which its owner cannot dispose of and whose cost (particularly cost of upkeep) exceeds its usefulness.

I don't know, sounds more like Juan Pierre. Except for the valuable part. Or Jason Schmidt.

2008-08-03 20:14:31
637.   KG16
I'd take Manny if it was a three year deal, without worrying too much about costs. A world title will alleviate the contract costs. I'd also give DeWitt a shot at second or third. I don't know where I'd go for the other spot.

I think, though, the key for the Dodgers this off season is moving one (or preferably both) of Pierre and Jones.

2008-08-03 20:16:26
638.   Howard Fox
the key is keeping Manny, period...if the team is winning and energized, Pierre doesn't bother me, Jones on the bench for one more season doesn't bother me...

I want the Dodgers winning, that's it

2008-08-03 20:17:45
639.   GoBears
One concern with signing Ramirez long-term beyond his age and inevitable decline is his Mannyness. Sure, he's hustling down the 1st base line now, as he plays for his last big contract and is probably genuinely excited to be in LA. But 2 years from now? Once he's bored, and the fans have stopped giving him a standing ovation for catching every routine fly ball to left?

Dodgerland is in love with Manny. They shouldn't make any long-term financial decisions before they have to.

I do love watching that guy hit. But I hope he's doing it elsewhere in April, unless a 2-yr contract is of interest (which I doubt).

2008-08-03 20:18:04
640.   Tripon
Manny will get paid by Frank McCourt, who is an admitted BoSoxphile. This is the same guy who paid for Schimdt, Andruw Jones, and Juan Pierre. And he doesn't even like those guys. Frank McCourt already has a man crush on Manny, and he'll pay to keep it.

He'll need to keep Manny to keep the Dodgers relevant, to get on the Times front Sports page when its Sept, and Oct. But also when its March, April, May, and June. With the Lakers run to the finals, you'd think the Dodgers took two months off instead of just playing atrocious baseball. Keeping Manny pays off in attendance, revenue, and free press. It just may cost us signing C.C. in the offseason, which might mean a resigning of Lowe, and not trading away Penny after picking up his option. But that is a tradeoff I'd take if it means Manny stays in L.A. for the next two or three seasons.

2008-08-03 20:22:07
641.   Tripon
Tim Brown seems to note that it was Frank McCourt who brokered the deal with the Red Sox.

The Dodgers and Ramirez's camp (he is represented by Scott Boras) agreed to void the option years on Ramirez's contract – they were worth $20 million each in 2009 and 2010 – which will make Ramirez a free agent after the season. Ramirez, a 10-and-5 player, could have refused the trade, but, at that point, he'd worked too hard to relieve himself of Boston. He'll also receive another $1 million for being traded.

The clincher in the deal came when Dodgers owner Fran k McCourt got on the phone with Red Sox power-brokers.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ti-mannytradedodgers073108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

2008-08-03 20:22:12
642.   Howard Fox
I don't mind the Mannyness at all, its Hollywood, he fits in

you tell Pierre (since he is playing CF as long as Torre is manager) the he has to cover from right center into left field, and you tell Kemp to cover right to right center...

you make allowances to keep that bat in the middle of our lineup

if he wants long hair, let him

if he has his quirks, let him be

just keep that bat in our lineup...the kids will learn to him and learn how to approach each at bat like never before...between him and Mattingly....

keep Manny, whatever the cost

2008-08-03 20:23:11
643.   KG16
638 - Pierre and Jones getting at bats, with or without Manny bothers me. Ethier should be the everyday right fielder with Kemp in center and Manny in left. It makes no sense to keep a guy who can be a legit .300 hitter with 20 HR potential on the bench in favor of the two other option.
2008-08-03 20:23:34
644.   Howard Fox
642....learn from, not to....
2008-08-03 20:24:25
645.   Howard Fox
643 then you have to get rid of Torre
2008-08-03 20:25:38
646.   Howard Fox
he invigorates our whole lineup like Bonds used to for the Giants
2008-08-03 20:27:27
647.   underdog
616 That's fair. If that's truly the only source for that rumor then it could very well be garbage. Still, it's not the first we've heard over the past few weeks that Colletti hasn't had the same kind of power he once had. A lot of that, too, comes from sometimes unreliable sources and probably also not trustworthy. But you have to wonder at times, if the perception of Colletti not being fully empowered isn't being disputed enough from the Dodger ownership. No? Anyway, it's all not worth wondering too much 'til the offseason since nothing will change much until then, if it does.
2008-08-03 20:28:31
648.   Eric Stephen
Manny has never played in the new Busch Stadium, but in 5 games in St. Louis he's hitting .333/.375/.400 (5 for 15 with a double and a walk).

He also played in St. Louis for 2 games in the 2004 World Series, going 3-8 with a HR and 2 walks, which pushes his career St. Louis totals to .348/.423/.522 in all of 26 PA.

2008-08-03 20:28:47
649.   underdog
647 But then there's 641 . Ah, I don't know what to think any more.
2008-08-03 20:29:18
650.   KG16
645 - the waiver wires are there to be used, and used they should be.
Show/Hide Comments 651-700
2008-08-03 20:29:22
651.   Jacob Burch
I'm actually in favor of keeping Pierre as a fourth outfielder--as long as he's kept as a fourth outfielder. If his agent starts whining, then a trade is fine, but I think he does add value off the bench--just not trying to get too many starts.

A magical way to rid ourselves of Jones--and Torre coming to his senses--combined with a Manny contract is what I'd like to see. That may be way too many things to go right, but, I can dream. I'm a Pacers fan.

2008-08-03 20:30:07
652.   underdog
Anyone know if any of the Dodgers-Cards games will be on ESPN? Or are we stuck watching 'em all on MLBTV? (For those out of LA.)
2008-08-03 20:35:41
653.   Tripon
For everyone advocating getting rid of Joe Torre, who's the better option? The kind of managers we hire here always tend to hire managers who favor vets over younger players. From Jim Tracy, Grady Little to Joe Torre, the best manager from the three of them is Torre by a mile. While we rage at the younger position players not getting their due(LaRoche, and Eithier), Torre seems to be able to handle his pitching staff much better than Tracy, and Grady did. Our bullpen is filled with young players like Cory Wade, Kuo, and Broxton, while both young starters Kershaw, and Billingsly were both handled well. Maybe its because Torre just trusts the Dodgers pitching over the Dodgers hitters, but I think we should give credit when its due.
2008-08-03 20:36:44
654.   Tripon
641 Also, we find out why Manny has an extra million dollars to his name.
2008-08-03 20:37:39
655.   KG16
Part of me wants to believe that Jones is going to call it a career after this season. Part of me believes that some team will take a flyer on the scrappiness of Juan Pierre for a couple of prospects. Part of me also believes that I can slow down in time after seeing the cop with a radar gun.
2008-08-03 20:40:25
656.   Eric Stephen
652
Looks like no ESPN, but all games are on Fox Sports Midwest so the Cardinal feed will be in Extra Innings. Not sure how MLB decides, but the Wednesday game is on KCAL so probably no Dodger crew for that one.
2008-08-03 20:40:38
657.   KG16
653 - I'm not advocating getting rid of Torre. He is the best manager of the last three, probably because he actually played in the bigs. And he's like everyone else with his biases. What frustrates me is that when evidence is presented to show his bias is wrong, he doesn't seem to even consider the evidence. It's like a conspiracy theorist who looks at evidence to refute his theory and sees it as only additional evidence in favor of his theory.
2008-08-03 20:42:45
658.   Howard Fox
ok, so when Torre was at his peak during his playing days, who was in the lineup around him?
2008-08-03 20:45:35
659.   Howard Fox
I'll answer my own question....the leadoff man for his team when he was the batting champion was Lou Brock, a speedy outfielder...

rightly or wrongly, he remembers Brock's speed and stolen bases and wreaking havoc...

that is why he does what he does in regard to Pierre

2008-08-03 20:47:27
660.   Bob Timmermann
658
Lou Brock, Ted Simmons, Steve Carlton were the other stars of the 1971 Cardinals, which was Torre's MVP years.

He also played along guys like Hank Aaron and Warren Spahn.

2008-08-03 20:47:27
661.   Eric Stephen
658
With the Braves, he had Hank Aaron, Eddie Mathews and Rico Carty with him in the lineup. In St. Louis, he had Lou Brock, one year of Dick Allen, and starting in 1971 a young Ted Simmons.
2008-08-03 20:48:13
662.   the2pin
Obviously we keep Manny. We've only had a couple elite sluggers in the past 20 years and we saw how that worked out.

"Value" players are fine, but a team full of "too good a value" guys doesn't necessarily translate into victories.

Someone will inevitably reply, "sure, but a team full of overpriced, broken down players doesn't translate into victories either".

While that is a true statement, it is non-responsive because we're talking about a healthy Manny Ramirez. We got lucky he fell into our lap.

2008-08-03 20:49:50
663.   Eric Stephen
659
Torre had great years with the Braves where mostly Felipe Alou led off. He barely ran at all.
2008-08-03 20:50:02
664.   KG16
658 - when he was with the Braves: Felipe Alou, Hank Aaron, Eddie Matthews. When he won the MVP in '71, there aren't any names I recognize, except for Jose Cruz (but that's because I saw his son play).
2008-08-03 20:51:56
665.   Eric Stephen
664
You don't recognize Lou Brock???
2008-08-03 20:53:21
666.   KG16
659 - Matt Kemp has 26 stolen bases to Pierre's 37. Kemp also has a higher batting average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage. Kemp can be the wrecker of havoc on the base paths while also hitting home runs. Kind of like Soriano or Rickey Henderson in his prime.
2008-08-03 20:53:44
667.   Bob Timmermann
664
Or Steve Carlton or Bob Gibson?
2008-08-03 20:54:04
668.   KG16
665 - oops, over looked Brock. Thought I was looking at a different year when I saw his name. My bad on multiple levels.
2008-08-03 20:54:25
669.   KG16
667 - wasn't looking at pitchers, just line up
2008-08-03 20:55:11
670.   Bob Timmermann
669
Joe Hague is coming over to your place to refresh your memory.
2008-08-03 20:55:28
671.   Howard Fox
666 Torre sees Kemp as a masher, not a speedy leadoff man
2008-08-03 20:55:30
672.   Greg Brock
If Torre is doing things based on his memories from the 1960's and 1970's, that is hilarious.

Come on, Joe. People change. Things change. Hairstyles change. Interest rates fluctuate.

2008-08-03 20:55:36
673.   KG16
when did Juan Pierre get intentionally walked this year?
2008-08-03 20:55:38
674.   Eric Stephen
668
I was about to mention that Brock was in the front row behind home plate for tonight's ESPN game! :)
2008-08-03 20:56:25
675.   KG16
671 - can't he be both?
2008-08-03 20:57:17
676.   Howard Fox
672 I have news for you, everything any of us do is based on learned responses and experiences throughout our lives. Why should Torre be any different?
2008-08-03 20:57:55
677.   Eric Stephen
673
In the 4th inning April 25. Pierre was batting 8th.

http://tinyurl.com/juanibb

2008-08-03 20:58:01
678.   Howard Fox
675 he can, I am just saying that is how Torre sees him
2008-08-03 20:58:05
679.   AKblue
Look, Apparently many people forgot that Torre sat Pierre on the first game of the season and batted Andre 3rd. He did so because he believed Ethier was the best hitter in the lineup (3rd hitter = best hitter). I'm tired of this endless talk of how Joe hates Andre Ethier… and Joe is an idiot. Joe's trying to win games and he thinks Juan is a table setter, as he was on Saturday night. Juan even got some "extremely rare" credit for it:
http://tinyurl.com/236hur
see Timm's two cents 03Aug08
2008-08-03 20:58:23
680.   KG16
676 - because it would mean Torre stopped learning some time around 1978.
2008-08-03 20:58:34
681.   Greg Brock
676 Yes, and when those things are proven false, we change our perspectives.
2008-08-03 20:59:52
682.   Tripon
We should sign Rickey Henderson again. I'm sure he can post a higher OBP than Juan Pierre, and the two facts that we would be carrying six outfielders, and screwing up Rickey's Hall of Fame date would get the rest of the world hating the Dodgers like they should.

672 Speaking about hair...

Torre may have also revealed the true reason behind the push for his new superstar to clean up the locks. Remarking how difficult his days managing the Yankees were with Manny playing for their biggest rival, Torre said he "lost a lot of hair playing against him." Revenge tactic, anyone?

http://sportsblogs.latimes.com/sports_baseball_dodgers/2008/08/post-3.html#more

2008-08-03 20:59:56
683.   Howard Fox
680 or you could look at it another way, that he hasn't experienced anything since then to change his mind re: speed at the top of the lineup
2008-08-03 21:00:30
684.   KG16
677 - ah yes, the mythical 3 walk game for Juan.

679 - I don't even know where to begin.

2008-08-03 21:00:59
685.   Howard Fox
681 not everyone is an enlightened as many of us here
2008-08-03 21:01:11
686.   AKblue
672 Excellent "Top Secret" reference
2008-08-03 21:04:37
687.   Greg Brock
685 I don't think one needs to be "enlightened" to realize that, perhaps, assumptions about baseball 40 years ago might not be correct.

There aren't many fields that haven't been improved upon in 40 years. Rock and Roll excepted.

2008-08-03 21:06:09
688.   Jacob Burch
Don't make me roll my eyes at you, Greg.
2008-08-03 21:07:22
689.   Tripon
Joe Torre is so old, he was old when he was 60 years old.
2008-08-03 21:10:37
690.   Greg Brock
688 That wasn't very fair of me. I'll knock it down to thirty years.

The 1970's had good stuff.

2008-08-03 21:11:45
691.   Jacob Burch
:Something-or-other about Grank Funk Railroad and your local library here:
2008-08-03 21:14:56
692.   hernari
Juan Pierre isn't happy...

http://tinyurl.com/5764t7

2008-08-03 21:16:10
693.   underdog
"I Want to Work For Diddy" - a new show on VH-1, and the final sign of the pending apocalypse.
2008-08-03 21:16:57
694.   Deuce
679 Apparently "table setter" means something different than getting on base a lot and scoring runs frequently. What does it mean?
2008-08-03 21:17:15
695.   Greg Brock
691 Are you * kidding me?

*You can figure it out.

2008-08-03 21:17:50
696.   Greg Brock
Oops, that was for 692

Long live Grand Funk.

2008-08-03 21:17:56
697.   underdog
692 I know he's a gamer and a good guy, so I'm assuming that's an article about how he feels badly that Ethier isn't playing these days. If not, I'll pass.
2008-08-03 21:18:30
698.   Jacob Burch
692

"All I've ever done was be Juan Pierre," he said. "I don't know why, for some reason, they're just sticking it to me this year. I applaud the move. Any time you get a chance to get Manny Ramirez, you get him. But from a personal standpoint, it's putting me in a tough position."

Well, there goes the little ounce of love I had for a 4th Outfielderish JP. Goodness Gracious.

2008-08-03 21:19:59
699.   Jacob Burch
Juan apparently trying to channel his inner Ricky Henderson, as well.
2008-08-03 21:22:21
700.   Deuce
698 Sticking it to me??? Would he like to trade places with Andre Ethier?
Show/Hide Comments 701-750
2008-08-03 21:22:31
701.   natepurcell
Juan Pierre has to entice some other team this august. Please!
2008-08-03 21:22:40
702.   Paul Scott
When baseball players try and talk physics:

"I always dive like that," he said. "I used to practice that on the beaches in the Dominican. If I dive low to the ground, I lose velocity. By throwing myself forward, I can keep my momentum."

2008-08-03 21:24:38
703.   AKblue
694 Touché, "table-setter" was a bad choice of phases on my part. That defines a player more like a healthy Furcal... (as does "run producer"). Look, I'm a much bigger fan of Andre than I am of Juan Pierre, I just think the constant talk of Joe and Ned loath the Ethier, Kemp and Loney's of the world goes too far sometime.
2008-08-03 21:26:22
704.   Tripon
Juan Pierre's a punk.
2008-08-03 21:26:41
705.   bhsportsguy
Yeah, but would we have nearly 5000 comments since Thursday without that talk.
2008-08-03 21:28:52
706.   Kuo-fax
692 - Well, at least he isn't walking salty.
2008-08-03 21:28:54
707.   milkshakeballa
Juan Pierre is without a doubt the most selfish player in the Dodgers clubhouse. He should be thankful hes getting his fat check he will never earn and keep his mouth shut.

By the way, I read a Zona Dback blog tonight, and someone said:

So with the Manny trade, the odd man out for the Dodgers outfield is Andre Ethier?!?!?!

Should we send Joe Torre a thank you card?

Vomiting.....

2008-08-03 21:28:59
708.   Tripon
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=29110

Cory Wade has a 0.99 WHIP. Just how ridiculous is that?

Also, Pablo Ozuna plays What is Love in his post game interview.

http://sportsblogs.latimes.com/sports_baseball_dodgers/files/pablo_ozuna_az4.mp3

2008-08-03 21:29:58
709.   Deuce
703 Point well taken. A baseball manager is a public position. Thus, I think Torre should answer legitimate questions about his lineup selection with well-reasoned responses. Not b.s., spin, talk of intangibles, and anger towards reporters.
2008-08-03 21:30:25
710.   Alex41592
Juan Pierre deserves a better team that will play him every single day. I think we should make that happen. It's in his best interest.

Meanwhile, poor Andre Ethier sits back with his sunflowers seeds.

2008-08-03 21:31:25
711.   Tripon
Think we can trade Juan Pierre to Houston? I think they're still trying to win the NL Central. We should help them by giving them JP.

And I can't believe I'm saying this but at least Andruw Jones isn't being a whiney little punk about his situation. He totally lost his ability to play baseball, but he isn't a punk like JP is.

2008-08-03 21:32:49
712.   68elcamino427
Juan Pierre - he's a team guy. Ha!
2008-08-03 21:33:32
713.   bhsportsguy
709 Why?

I mean that would be great and all that but I don't know of a manager or coach that is going to do that.

They consider that to be something only for their use and information and frankly don't think they owe the media and/or the public any reasoning for their choices.

2008-08-03 21:36:09
714.   68elcamino427
Joe Torre - The former NYC Spinmeister - Joe hasn't lost his touch.

We Want Ethier!

2008-08-03 21:38:30
715.   JoeyP
Its going to be difficult for the Dodgers to win the division if Torre doesnt play the right players.

Kent better heat up soon bc I think Manny's gonna get a ton of walks starting Tuesday.

2008-08-03 21:41:52
716.   Tripon
Kent's unlikely to heat up.
2008-08-03 21:42:34
717.   GoBears
703 I don't think that Torre hates Ethier. I think one of two things is true:

1. He actually thinks that Pierre is a better baseball player than Ethier.

2. Despite knowing that Ethier is better, he thinks that playing Pierre is better for the team - that Pierre's balance of skills and weakness somehow help the team more than Ethier's.

#1 is, of course, nuts. Ethier is better in every way except baserunning. And his advantage over Ethier in baserunning, except in certain specific situations, just doesn't matter very much.

#2 is a logical fallacy. A better player helps the team more than a lesser player. Role players and complementarities matter in sports that have team production (football, soccer, basketball, hockey). Baseball has no team production, with the minor exceptions of turning a double play or a relay throw. Every baseball act is an individual act. The game is contested between groups of individuals, but there is absolutely no way in which the whole is not precisely the sum of the parts.

"Teamwork" is a coaching shibboleth, but in baseball, its only possible relevance is outside of the realm of game-play performance. I'm willing to accept that pulling together, and liking each other and offering encouragement - being a good teammate - can matter a smidge. But there is no evidence that Pierre is better in any of these intangible ways than Ethier, and the burden of proof is on the side of anyone who would claim that such intangible contribution to run-scoring or run-preventing can come close to trumping the huge amount by which Ethier is a better player than Pierre.

/repetitious rant

2008-08-03 21:43:37
718.   Deuce
713 Because it's the right thing to do. Because it's good for business. To earn the respect of media and fans. I don't agree that no managers or coaches are honest and forthright. In the long run, people will end up treating you like you treat them. If you think because you won world titles with the Yankees, Dodger fans will blindly accept poor decisions, think again. We care about the here and now, not 2000.
2008-08-03 21:46:19
719.   GoBears
711 And I can't believe I'm saying this but at least Andruw Jones isn't being a whiney little punk about his situation. He totally lost his ability to play baseball, but he isn't a punk like JP is.

Jones's performance has been so epically bad that even he can see he deserves to be benched.

I don't blame Pierre for not understanding how bad he is. He's only a very slightly worse version this year of the lousy player he's always been, and that player got $44M a couple years ago. He's asking "what the heck changed?"

I blamed Colletti, but now that Colletti has provided Torre with 3 obviously better outfielders (maybe 4, if Young were given a chance), I blame Torre.

He has a loaded OF with Ramirez/Kent/Ethier. He should stop insisting that Pierre is good, and focus instead on his real remaining problems: 2b and SS.

2008-08-03 21:47:10
720.   JoeyP
Since the Colorado series, here's how the Dodgers have pitched last 10 games:

2 runs
0
0
7
0
0
2
2
2
3

Dodgers are 7-3 in the games.
Giving up 1.8 runs per game.

2008-08-03 21:49:26
721.   JoeyP
If you think because you won world titles with the Yankees, Dodger fans will blindly accept poor decisions, think again.

Casual Dodger fans have been accepting poor decisions forever. Its not going to change. They'll still show up at DS no matter who plays OF.

2008-08-03 21:53:47
722.   LAT
This was proabaly discussed at length earlier today, but I just read Tony Jackson's piece about Joe and Ned talking to Boras about sending Andruw to the minors. I am being serious, can someone explain to me why Boras would be consulted on this issue. I don't get it. As long as the Dodgers are continuing to pay Jones what input can Boras have?
2008-08-03 21:55:25
723.   Jon Weisman
719 - Pierre makes the same mistake most reporters make in evaluating him. He compares Juan Pierre to Juan Pierre, instead of comparing Juan Pierre to the rest of the Dodger outfielders.

All I've ever done was be Jon Weisman, but that doesn't make me a starting outfielder.

I don't think Pierre intends anything bad by it, necessarily. I think he's just that self-absorbed. Jones, Ethier and Kemp aren't viable outfielders to him with their own credentials, such as they are or were – they're inexplicable punishments. Anytime Pierre has to prove himself, he becomes Job.

2008-08-03 21:56:04
724.   underdog
719 Oh man, you scared me for a second with the idea that Kent was now in the outfield mix. Can't even picture that...

So, what else is happening? How's everyone doing tonight?

2008-08-03 21:56:54
725.   bhsportsguy
722 Because under the CBA, Jones has to agree to a re-assignment and from what it seems liek these days, that kind of decision doesn't get done without the agent being involved.
2008-08-03 21:56:57
726.   GoBears
722. Doesn't Jones have to accept a demotion to the minors? That would explain talking to his agent.
2008-08-03 21:57:18
727.   Jon Weisman
722 - Well, on the theory that Jackson's speculation is true, the Dodgers need Jones' permission to send him to AAA. So they go to Jones' hired hand and make the case for why this might be good for him. If Boras is on board with the move, it's much more likely to happen.
2008-08-03 21:57:40
728.   underdog
722 Isn't there a contract issue here? Because Jones can refuse to accept an assignment to the minors if he's not on an injury rehab. Or am I wrong?
2008-08-03 21:58:01
729.   Tripon
Kent in the outfield would be brutal, and likely to punch a guy in the stands just because he could. ...You know what, I would pay to watch that.
2008-08-03 21:58:22
730.   bhsportsguy
723 Jon just wrote in his concise way, what it took 5 paragraphs that I decided not to post to say.
2008-08-03 21:58:23
731.   underdog
Or what BH and Jon said.

That tears it! I'm gonna go watch Mad Men now.

2008-08-03 21:59:20
732.   underdog
And what GoBears said.

I seem to type as slow as Jason Johnson pitches.

2008-08-03 22:00:11
733.   ToyCannon
Weekend honeymoons are great, but you can't base a long term relationship on it.
2008-08-03 22:01:43
734.   Tripon
733 It worked for Dharma and Greg. Or maybe it didn't, I never did watch the series finale.
2008-08-03 22:02:15
735.   LAT
704 and 707. What is the point of the personal attacks on JP? By all accounts he is not a punk. He is a nice fellow and he is a team player. JP should not be on this team and it is a shame Torre doesn't play the better player but the personal attcks on JP are just silly and serve no purpose.
2008-08-03 22:02:42
736.   Eric Stephen
733
But if you are on the honeymoon, haven't you already committed to a long-term relationship? :)

I'm just messing with you; it was a good line.

2008-08-03 22:03:25
737.   Gagne55
722 Because Jones will likely accept being sent to the minors if Boras tells him to.
2008-08-03 22:03:28
738.   GoBears
724. Oh, oops! Sorry about that man. Take an aspirin. And I proofread!

723. I totally agree with you. I didn't mean to imply anything different than that.

2008-08-03 22:04:19
739.   bhsportsguy
723 Just to add, I think you can liken it to his comment about his belief that he had a contract to play everyday.

I mean there wasn't a clause in his contract that guaranteed that, but in his mind the Dodgers are paying a certain amount of money to him to play baseball for 5 years and the only way he knows how to fulfill it, is to play everyday.

If there was an award for the employee with the most integrity and work effort, it might go to Juan Pierre, in a lot of lines of work, you could do a lot worse than have someone that is going to give his best effort for the salary you are paying him.

2008-08-03 22:04:41
740.   ToyCannon
629
Looks like a lot of DH type hitters are looking for work next year.
2008-08-03 22:04:51
741.   Eric Enders
Also quoted in the Pierre article:

"It's a good soreness, though," said Proctor.

Dodger quotes are getting to the point where we don't even need punchlines anymore. It's like they've been reading too much of The Onion.

2008-08-03 22:05:08
742.   Alex41592
733 - Jones must be a drunk wedding in Vegas. And you know you need to file for divorce but you keep trying to convince yourself that it'll work out. So, you keep trying and trying and trying and finally you send your wife back to Vegas but you need your therapists permission first before doing it.
2008-08-03 22:07:23
743.   regfairfield
741 What's wrong with that? Seems like he's just talking about how you feel after a good workout.
2008-08-03 22:07:45
744.   bhsportsguy
739 I almost added the following but I'll add it now.

But unfortunately, baseball isn't one of those jobs.

2008-08-03 22:09:04
745.   Greg Brock
Work ethic is like the trophy for "most improved" or "team spirit" in youth sports.
2008-08-03 22:09:17
746.   ToyCannon
740
This is not a personal attack against Juan Pierre but he is the type of worker you find in every company when a person is going lights out but accomplishes very little. They get noticed and they get promoted and the company suffers.
As long as they stay in the stockroom moving their fast feet and staying away from the heavy lifting of a company's bottom line, they are not very dangerous.
2008-08-03 22:10:58
747.   JoeyP
744--In the real world though, production is more important than effort & often decisions are based on the bottomline, not intangibles.

Pierre picked the right line of work that values intangibles over production. He couldnt do that in the "real" world.

2008-08-03 22:11:37
748.   LAT
Thanks. I didn't realize Jones' consent was required. I wish I had a clause like that at work.
2008-08-03 22:11:54
749.   arbfuldodger
I love how delusional Slappy is w/ the quote of "If Andruw starts hitting I'll probably get sent to the bench" ...Um hello ...Ethier is completely an after thought. As Greg Brock said in 695 Are you * kidding me???
2008-08-03 22:13:55
750.   bhsportsguy
745 Using Bill James Historical Abstract method of ranking players, I live off my peak value. Kind of like the Pete Reiser in my field. Or Smokey Joe Wood.
Show/Hide Comments 751-800
2008-08-03 22:17:01
751.   Greg Brock
746 Never mistake activity for achievement.*

*I just made that up right now!

2008-08-03 22:19:25
752.   LAT
I kind of agree with JP's comments. He is who he has always been. Its no suprise that he plays the way he plays. The outrage is that he is on the team and playing in front of the better player. These problems lie with Ned and Joe. Did anyone expect JP to come out and say "I suck, I should be sitting."
2008-08-03 22:21:06
753.   Tripon
Speaking of Bill James, I read that he pushed for the Red Sox to not pick up the options for Manny Rameriez. Of course, that could just be idle speculation from the Boston papers, but I wonder if he truly thinks that Bay and I guess another starting pitcher can approximately produce what Manny gave them and would give them in the next two years?
2008-08-03 22:22:12
754.   bhsportsguy
752 Perhaps had he said one of those whatever helps the team win is fine by me comment, it would have been taken more kindly.
2008-08-03 22:23:01
755.   Marty
If Manny keeps up his current pace, I guarantee he won't be a Dodger next year. Frank won't pay that much. If you want Manny next year, root for him to come back to Earth.
2008-08-03 22:25:34
756.   Greg Brock
750 To get in the hall, you have to be legendary for a medium time, or great over a long time. Do you get in?
2008-08-03 22:25:44
757.   GoBears
746 Yup.

751 Amen, Coach Wooden. I almost quoted that line in my rant yesterday about how he seems to me clearly to NOT get the most out of his abilities, because he has failed to improve things that seem like they could be improved (reading fly balls and not throwing like a grandmother with sprained wrist (and here I mean technique, not results).

749 . Sadly, he may not be delusional in excluding Ethier from his thoughts. Torre seems to have made 3.5 into 4.5.

2008-08-03 22:26:12
758.   Eric Stephen
Chris Hansen on Dateline just doesn't seem as excited doing stories on U.S. customs as when he is doing stakeouts in houses.
2008-08-03 22:26:57
759.   Greg Brock
If you want Manny next year, root for him to come back to Earth.

If Manny came back to earth, he wouldn't be Manny.

2008-08-03 22:28:09
760.   underdog
Dunno if this was posted earlier but more from Ken Rosenthal (so... grain of salt), via MLBTR:

"The Dodgers will have an opening at shortstop in the offseason and could re-sign Rafael Furcal. They like his work ethic and what he's brought their team, offensively and defensively, during his stay."

2008-08-03 22:28:17
761.   Marty
Maybe we should coin never mistake efficiency for sloth. Ethier doesn't work as hard as Pierre because he doesn't need to. He's just naturally better.
2008-08-03 22:28:21
762.   Tripon
Chris Hansen missed his true calling as Dr. Phil knockoff.
2008-08-03 22:29:05
763.   regfairfield
753 It's entirely reasonable to say Jason Bay is just as valuable as Manny is. Manny's in a class of his own when it comes to bad defense.
2008-08-03 22:30:09
764.   GoBears
756 Speaking of which, I just heard the ESPNews guy refer to the late Skip Caray as the "legendary broadcaster, Skip Caray."

Legendary? He was around for a long time, and was very good, and funny (if not everyone's cup of tea). But legendary?

Maybe they meant that he only existed in stories, like King Arthur. Or the Minotaur.

2008-08-03 22:30:29
765.   bhsportsguy
756 I don't think I'm HOF material. I'm a Bobby Grich in my field with a few career highlights favorably remembered by the fans.
2008-08-03 22:31:55
766.   Greg Brock
Working hard is for people that have to work hard.

I'd like outstandingly productive slackers to get a little credit once in a while.

2008-08-03 22:33:15
767.   Eric Stephen
764
He was the best announcer that sounded like Kermit the Frog, I'll give him that. Actually, I kind of liked Skip over the years. In the 1990s I had a bit of a Braves' backlash so I was biased in my dislike of Skip. He grew on me.

I heard his radio call of the final out of the 1996 World Series (a foul pop to 3B Charlie Hayes), and his call was something like, "The Yankees have stolen the Braves' championship!" Classic.

2008-08-03 22:33:36
768.   LAT
754. That would be nice but I think he thinks his playing is the best thing for the team. Anyway, his cooments just don't bother me. Maybe I'm just happy to have split. Check back tomorrow after a few hours at work I'm sure I'll be back to my bitter, pissed-off self.
2008-08-03 22:33:38
769.   Tripon
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2008/07/tradeability_signability.html#more

Wow, looks like The Nats and Bowden isn't going to sign their first draft pick in time.

Q: Speaking of pitching/progress, has any been made with (first-round pick) Aaron Crow in negotiations?

No.

Q: Do you think you'll have him signed by the Aug. 15 deadline?

Don't know that.

We're working hard trying to sign all the guys that are unsigned.

2008-08-03 22:34:09
770.   Eric Stephen
766
I'd like outstandingly productive slackers to get a little credit once in a while

You rang?

2008-08-03 22:34:21
771.   Deuce
Does a teacher give the kid with a 70% average in math a higher grade then the one with a 90% because he spent more time studying?
2008-08-03 22:34:42
772.   Greg Brock
If it wasn't for Skip Caray, I would have never known when Beastmaster was going to be on. For that, I thank him.
2008-08-03 22:36:18
773.   Greg Brock
771 It depends. How hot is his mom? Is she single?

There are too many variables.

2008-08-03 22:36:33
774.   Uncle Miltie
Speaking of scrappy players, Juan Pierre hasn't drawn a walk since June 6th. A pretty impressive feat.
2008-08-03 22:37:47
775.   Alex41592
774 - Well, he was on the DL. 29 games to be exact and the longest stretch of his career.
2008-08-03 22:38:25
776.   Jacob Burch
773 I'm so reporting you, GrandFunk.
2008-08-03 22:38:49
777.   GoBears
Ground to second and:

1. Run like your butt is on fire, only to get thrown out by half a step: Juan Pierre. Man does he hustle! Start him!

2. Run hard, but just naturally not as quickly as 1, and get thrown out by a full step: Andre Ethier. He needs to look like he cares more. Bench him!

3. Stop to tie your shoe, then meander toward first base like a post-Thanksgiving Dinner tryptophan drunk and get thrown out by 45 feet: Manny Ramirez. Boy, he's QUIRKY! Give him $100M!

2008-08-03 22:39:24
778.   bhsportsguy
773 I knew there was a reason for parent/teacher conferences.
2008-08-03 22:39:25
779.   Eric Stephen
774
I was going to remind you to remember Pierre missed 20 games, but then I noticed that his walkless stretch has reached 123 PA. That's a lot.
2008-08-03 22:40:43
780.   the2pin
Baseball tonight:

"Manny's second HR tonight in L.A. Ties the TOTAL number of HR by Dodger left fielders this season."

That's astounding. We're going to win this division. We haven't had a player like Manny Ramirez in our lineup for at least twenty years. I honestly can't think of the last time we've had that kind of bat in a Dodger uniform.

2008-08-03 22:41:17
781.   GoBears
765 I wouldn't be upset if Bobby Grich were to make the HoF. Maybe you meant Joe Carter? Or better - Jack Morris?

Very good player, not HoF worthy, but with some career highlights (in the World Series) that make some people demand their elevation.

2008-08-03 22:41:50
782.   LAT
773. I understand this. That's why the young kid has a better chance of getting a better grade. By high school their Mom is too old to pull a good grade for the kid.
2008-08-03 22:41:52
783.   Alex41592
777 - More like:

1. "Throw the ball right down the middle."

2. "This guy is a really solid hitter so be careful and hit your spots."

3. "Good luck and we're all counting on you. He can hit anything you throw 400 feet. Boy his hair sure is impressive."

2008-08-03 22:41:54
784.   Eric Stephen
780
Piazza, Sheffield, and Shawn Green say hi.
2008-08-03 22:42:10
785.   Uncle Miltie
Well, he was on the DL. 29 games to be exact and the longest stretch of his career.
Coincidentally, he hasn't drawn a walk in the last 29 games that he's played in. That's Shawon Dunston-esque.
2008-08-03 22:42:44
786.   Tripon
782 Sometimes that young highschool kid has a hot older sister who is single.
2008-08-03 22:43:13
787.   Greg Brock
I'd put Grich in ahead of Jim Rice, that's for sure.
2008-08-03 22:44:00
788.   Icaros
784

So does Adrian Beltre's 2004 bone spurs.

2008-08-03 22:44:04
789.   Alex41592
785 - Mhm, that's what I meant.
2008-08-03 22:44:33
790.   GoBears
Does a teacher give the kid with a 70% average in math a higher grade then the one with a 90% because he spent more time studying?

Only a computer nerd (mother's basement, underwear, never played, yada yada yada) would think that's a good analogy for baseball.

This is baseball!

2008-08-03 22:45:16
791.   Tripon
Meanwhile in Packers land, everyone looks like they're shell shocked. Man, the whole Brett Farve thing is just sucking the life out of everyone there.
2008-08-03 22:45:17
792.   underdog
780 I heard that earlier, too. But it sounded wrong or skewed to me. Hasn't Andre Ethier played LF at some point this season? Do his home runs not count? Or were they all hit when he was playing RF? I guess if I'm too lazy to look it up then so is ESPN.
2008-08-03 22:45:22
793.   ToyCannon
780
Did everyone miss the 2004 Beltre?

Even Sheffield was not that long ago and before that it was Piazza. Come on people this weekend was nice but I hear people talking like they have never seen a Dodger hit the round thing hard before.

2008-08-03 22:46:06
794.   Greg Brock
782 Some of us appreciate the elegance of the older ladies. 35-40 is wheelhouse.
2008-08-03 22:46:24
795.   ToyCannon
Wow, was I late on that one. And I even forgot Greenie.
2008-08-03 22:47:04
796.   natepurcell
Tomorrow is my first day of my real job... Don't worry, I'll figure out how to access DT at the office.
2008-08-03 22:47:30
797.   Eric Stephen
792
The non-Manny LF have hit .256/.313/.317 with 17 doubles and 2 HR.

When Ethier has played LF, he hasn't hit much. He does have both HR though.

2008-08-03 22:47:40
798.   underdog
779 A leadoff hitter with that kind of walk-less stretch - that is an abysmal stat. I don't recall seeing that in recent articles about Pierre.
2008-08-03 22:47:51
799.   GoBears
Baseball tonight:

"Manny's second HR tonight in L.A. Ties the TOTAL number of HR by Dodger left fielders this season."

That's astounding.

That's not astounding. That's what you get when Juan Pierre starts all year in LF. The two must have been in Ethier or DYoung games.

Actually, I guess I'm a little surprised Ethier didn't hit more than 2 - did he hit all of his as a RF or PH?

2008-08-03 22:48:10
800.   Tripon
Everyone forgets the 24 homers of Paul LoDuca.
Show/Hide Comments 801-850
2008-08-03 22:48:12
801.   natepurcell
780

Dont get carried away, Sheffield and Piazza in their primes were just as good.

2008-08-03 22:48:34
802.   bhsportsguy
794 Especially in summer dresses.
2008-08-03 22:48:39
803.   the2pin
784 You're seriously going to mention Shawn Green in the same breath as Manny Ramirez? Honestly? Maybe the Dodgers have been bad for so long because our expectations are so low.

_793_I stand corrected. Beltre was....impossibly good. But, let's be fair, that was a bit of a fluke. True?

2008-08-03 22:49:12
804.   Alex41592
780 - Kal Daniels laughs at you.
2008-08-03 22:49:14
805.   Greg Brock
796 Knock 'em dead, Nate.

First capitalization, now a real job. He's all growns up. I think I'm going to cry.

2008-08-03 22:49:21
806.   underdog
797 Ah. No dingers for Delwyn in the LF slot? Well, anyway, it's a sad amount. Manny powers up that position an incredible amount, no doubt.

Wait, I'm watching the end of Mad Men. Why am I here?

2008-08-03 22:49:48
807.   Eric Stephen
800
I remembered the other one though. :)
2008-08-03 22:50:36
808.   Eric Stephen
803
The 2001-2002 Green was awesome. 91 HR and two 150+ OPS seasons.
2008-08-03 22:50:46
809.   Greg Brock
802 Summer dresses were in last night in MB. Goodness gracious. Gams on parade.
2008-08-03 22:52:02
810.   bhsportsguy
796 What is a real job. My last real job involved stomping trash in a bin in the rain with 5-6 more hours of work ahead of me.

If you mean wearing a tie and answering to Mr. Purcell, well that's different.

2008-08-03 22:52:20
811.   regfairfield
803 .297/.372/.598 is better than Manny this year.
2008-08-03 22:52:38
812.   Eric Stephen
Complete list of LAD 150 OPS+ seasons:

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/pbEf

2008-08-03 22:52:55
813.   jasonungar07
"To be honest, if we're winning and Andruw starts hitting, I'll probably be back on the bench," he said. "That's that power they went out and got in the off-season."

--
He went on to say, "so hopefully Andruw doesn't start hitting, you know from a personal standpoint". He also added "thank god they don't notice that Ethier is hitting because that would make the situation worse from my perspective".

2008-08-03 22:52:59
814.   the2pin
804 Kal Daniels! Thank you for the mention of that name, I always loved his batting stance.

Manny Ramirez is the best right handed hitter of his generation not named Alex Rodriguez. Be serious, Dodger fans, and celebrate! We're going to win this division and we're going to begin to demand more than the mediocrity we've been accustomed to. Just watch.

2008-08-03 22:54:12
815.   bhsportsguy
809 The South Bay, enough said.
2008-08-03 22:54:12
816.   GoBears
798. It's not Pierre's fault that pitchers only throw him strikes.

Which would be a fine rejoinder if he were hitting .380.

Really, imagine a good hitter who only saw strikes. We'd see someone bat .400 again.

2008-08-03 22:54:30
817.   LAT
780 Although my job here at DT has become obsolete, once in a while someone makes me come out of retirement.

Most HRs in a season:

Manny 45 (twice)
Shawn Green 49

2008-08-03 22:55:33
818.   Eric Stephen
814
Manny Ramirez is the best right handed hitter of his generation not named Alex Rodriguez

No Pujols?

2008-08-03 22:55:35
819.   LAT
786. Very good point!
2008-08-03 22:56:45
820.   bhsportsguy
817 Your honor, I would like to disqualify that witness, he cannot be objective about anything regarding Shawn Green. :)
2008-08-03 22:59:06
821.   Eric Stephen
820
LAT will now use Shawn Green's batting gloves to slap you and challenge you to a duel!
2008-08-03 22:59:35
822.   KG16
Manny's second HR tonight in L.A. Ties the TOTAL number of HR by Dodger left fielders this season.

Andre Ethier says, "Huh?"

a quick look at Ethier's game log shows that 3 of his home runs came as a left fielder (there's a few more where he played left later in the game and i can't tell when he hit the home run)

2008-08-03 22:59:40
823.   GoBears
814 How do you define "generation?"

Look, we all agree that Manny Ramirez is an outstanding hitter. There is nobody on Earth who thinks that the 2008 Dodgers with Ramirez in LF instead of Pierre (since we're comparing stats for LFers) are not vastly improved.

The problem is that the cost of getting that improvement has been a huge decline in another OF slot (swapping Pierre in for Ethier) and serious costs for 2009.

So who exactly are you arguing with?

2008-08-03 23:01:42
824.   Deuce
790 No basement, played through h.s., limited computer knowledge. If the Bears signed Favre, would you want Grossman to start because he worked harder or got to the practive field first. Or on the other Bears, is Tanner better than Kelly Leak because he wants it more? Those analagies are ever worse.
2008-08-03 23:05:18
825.   Tripon
Hey how many HRs does the CF spot has with Pierre vs. Kemp?
2008-08-03 23:05:47
826.   LAT
820/821 At Fri's game daughter was telling me how mucch she missed him. Inside, I was a little relieved he's not playing and disappointing.
2008-08-03 23:07:54
827.   the2pin
823 I don't think I'm "arguing" with anyone. I prefer not to argue with anyone. I'm trying to describe the scope of Manny's greatness as a hitter, a reality some people may forget.

In any event, Ramirez would also be a huge improvement (over Ethier, or almost anyone in MLB) in 2009 if we can sign him.

I firmly believe: truly elite players almost never make it to free agency. GMs have a massive interest in resigning popular players. Because star players rarely make it to free agency, teams need to capitalize when they have the opportunity to lock-up a truly elite player.

2008-08-03 23:09:16
828.   LAT
OK I have to call it a night--daughters watching tivo-ed Hannah Montana episodes. Just kill me. Nite all.
2008-08-03 23:11:44
829.   Eric Stephen
822
Baseball-Reference.com breaks down the stats by position under the "splits" page for each player. Only 2 of Ethier's HR were hit as a LF.
2008-08-03 23:14:07
830.   GoBears
824 I was keeeeeeeeeeeding. I completely agree with you. Perhaps you're not familiar with the standard curmudgeonly disdain for objectifying baseball statistics?

Sorry if my sarcasm was too opaque - sometimes it's hard to tell in writing.

Oh, and you don't have the right Bears.

2008-08-03 23:14:19
831.   Greg Brock
At some point, when the chips are down and we're inside the red zone and backs are against walls and other cliches come into play, Ethier will start. And then people will ask why, if Ethier is playing now, he wasn't playing earlier.

And Torre will skirt the question and talk about onions on belts and when he used to call nickels "bees." Because that's what old people do.

2008-08-03 23:15:12
832.   Eric Stephen
822 ,829
Here's a link to the Dodger LF stats through Saturday:

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/Qqyr

2008-08-03 23:15:18
833.   the2pin
823 Who else are you thinking of in the "right-handed bat of his generation" category other than A-Rod? I fully admit I may have overlooked a winner, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.

Generation = roughly the same career span as the player mentioned, Manny. I'm not trying to be too specific, and I'm trying not to run afoul of Rule 6. I recognize that everyone knows Manny is good. But people don't recognize that we need to sign this guy for next year! :)

Finally, someone mentioned above that Green has had some excellent seasons. Indeed he has. 49, 42, 42, 35. Great seasons. Then he hit 28 HR one year. Very respectable. Then 22. Then 18. Then...

Shawn Green had two max-money years in a Dodger uniform where he hit fewer than 25 HR has a 1B.

Manny Ramirez has hit 30+ HR in something like 13/15 major league seasons. The comparison is unfair -- to Manny. While Green had some great years, he can hardly boast the sustained excellence of a Manny Ramirez.

2008-08-03 23:15:54
834.   KG16
829 - i suppose it's possible that i miscounted
2008-08-03 23:17:27
835.   Jacob Burch
Five bees for a quarter, you'd say.

I can keep this up all night if you want, GF.

2008-08-03 23:18:01
836.   bhsportsguy
827 I don't think anyone here is going to argue that Manny Ramirez is not a future HOF and as someone who was there yesterday, I can say that he added an excitement that was not there when I was there the weekend before.

But, there he is not 28 or 30 or even 32. He is a 36 year old left fielder who has never been known as even an average defensive player in a league without a DH and in a division with some big outfields.

Also, if everything remains the same, you still have 4 other outfielders under contract or team control in 2009. Two of them are probably unmovable without significant financial consequences.

So if he is a two month rental, even if he leads the team to the playoffs, his cost is considered too high for that term.

So that is what you see here being discussed back and forth.

Personally, I like the excitement but I understand the issues being brought forward by others.

2008-08-03 23:19:34
837.   Eric Stephen
833
But people don't recognize that we need to sign this guy for next year!

No one is denying Manny is great. The problem is that the Dodgers can't simply sign him for next year. Manny will be looking for a 4-5 year deal. I'm not saying it would be good or bad, but you have to take the longevity of the contract into account rather than just say "bring him back."

2008-08-03 23:20:46
838.   Greg Brock
835 The boss does not look kindly upon Simpsons quotefests.

Unless he uses a quote himself, and then the floodgates are opened.

2008-08-03 23:20:51
839.   bhsportsguy
The Dodgers were lucky not to be down in the first inning. As I said earlier, biggest surprise this week, winning the two games Jason Johnson started.
2008-08-03 23:22:06
840.   GoBears
827. I also wouldn't bet on Ramirez being anywhere near his peak level for the duration of his next contract. I'd try to sign him for 1 or 2 years (provided Jones and Pierre are gone) but probably not 3, and definitely not 4.

No one needs anyone to "describe the scope of Manny's greatness as a hitter." We know. We also know his atrociousness as a fielder and baserunner, and his apparent willingness to go to half-speed if he's unhappy.

Plus, as has been argued (with evidence, even), he's great, but not out-of-this-world great. The Dodgers have had players just as great for short times, recently, and all Ramirez would be at this point would be a short-termer at the wrong end of his career.

Now, if Ramirez could somehow make Pierre a better hitter, then we'd have something. Maybe he could borrow Kenny Lofton's under-butt-fire-lighting cookbook.

2008-08-03 23:23:16
841.   Greg Brock
I have no problem with signing great players to contracts knowing that their last year would be bad.

Lowe's four year contract was always going to be ugly in the fourth year. It's a miracle it hasn't really been that bad.

If Pedro could have given the Mets two good full years, the four year deal would have been worth it.

2008-08-03 23:23:16
842.   Jacob Burch
For a random 2/5s of a Bee, I'd be ok with Manny at 4/80, realizing I''m getting probably 1.5-2 great years, 1 good year and one sort of sketchy year. Even if he's about .1 OPS better than Kent, I'd be happy with the star quality he brings--admitting full well this is me being a "mindless" baseball fan, and knowing the money is probably better spent elsewhere.

This is the silly optimism I expect Icaros to completely shake loose--somewhere underneath it all, I'm still a kid not understanding why Hideo Nomo had to leave.

2008-08-03 23:23:27
843.   Tripon
Is Jason Johnson staying around? Seems like a guy we could send down for Penny.
2008-08-03 23:23:31
844.   bhsportsguy
My Ipod has selections from one the Simpsons CDs. Nothing like hearing Elvis Costello singing "Allison," and then hearing the line "where the Saints of football play."
2008-08-03 23:23:32
845.   Deuce
830 Knew you were. Cal?
2008-08-03 23:24:05
846.   Eric Stephen
He won't pitch until Thursday, but how about Clay K with the 12 straight scoreless innings??!!

This will be the 2nd time Kershaw has faced an opponent twice. The 2nd start against the Rockies didn't go so well, but some of that can be chalked up to Coors.

Thursday will be interesting, hopefully in more ways than one!

2008-08-03 23:25:05
847.   bhsportsguy
841 But then he post links to great moments in "Taxi" history.
2008-08-03 23:27:47
848.   GoBears
845 Ah, good. Sometimes it's hard to tell.

Yup, Cal.

2008-08-03 23:28:12
849.   bhsportsguy
828 When they start speaking the lines before the characters do, is it time for them to watch a new show?

I say this as someone who could spend and has spent a lifetime watching "I Love Lucy," "The Simpsons," and "Seinfeld."

2008-08-03 23:28:51
850.   the2pin
836, 837, I appreciate your posts.

836, you wrote: "So if he is a two month rental, even if he leads the team to the playoffs, his cost is considered too high for that term."

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you meant to say that you believe his cost is considered too high for that term. Correct? And that may be fair.

However, I know two things that are factually impregnable:

1. I don't care what Manny Ramirez costs if he turns a team that may not have been going to the playoffs into a playoff contender. As a fan, I have that luxury.

2. Low-cost, young players (Kemp, Ethier, Martin, Loney) are a boon because they allow teams to lock up good players and spend additional funds on impact players. Manny Ramirez is precisely that kind of impact player. While I recognize that past contractual mistakes are a liability, they shouldn't bear on whether to sign Manny Ramirez. Andruw Jones is, for all intents and purposes, a sunk cost.

Although this is just my opinion, I believe Manny Ramirez will be highly productive for at least 3 more seasons.

Show/Hide Comments 851-900
2008-08-03 23:29:01
851.   Deuce
I'd offer Manny/Boras two years $40 mil. If you sign him however, it would probably have to be Hu/DeWitt or Abreu up the middle instead of Furcal/FA (Ellis?). This is where the Jones, Schmidt, Pierre signings will bite us in the butt.
2008-08-03 23:29:13
852.   Greg Brock
If we'd have given Piazza a seven year deal, he'd have been trash in the last two years.

Would that deal be bad? I doubt that.

After all, everybody here wishes we'd have kept Piazza, and seven years would have done it.

2008-08-03 23:29:57
853.   Eric Stephen
849
I don't know why, but I have an irrational hatred of "I Love Lucy".
2008-08-03 23:30:32
854.   the2pin
840 Who is "out-of-this-world great"? I'm wondering.
2008-08-03 23:31:29
855.   Deuce
848 Longshore or Riley?
2008-08-03 23:31:51
856.   Eric Stephen
851
Just a guess, but since a condition of Manny waiving his no-trade rights was for the Dodgers to not pick up the two $20m options, 2/$40m won't get it done.
2008-08-03 23:33:04
857.   Jacob Burch
My guess on what gets it done for manny: 4/85 or 3+1/90--with the option being some sort of Club/PA Opt In Clause.
2008-08-03 23:33:08
858.   Eric Stephen
854
Pujols and A-Rod, to name two.
2008-08-03 23:33:36
859.   the2pin
851 I'd rather have Manny + Hu any day of the week, particularly if we're going to have our favorite "table setter" getting ABs. IMO, we have desperately needed that power bat for years.

And, really, if we're going to pay Furcal 15 million, I think we'd get more productivity out of Manny at 20. It's a debatable point, but I can't think of a single objective commentator who didn't think that Furcal's contract with the Dodgers wasn't preposterously expensive for a player of Furcal's caliber.

2008-08-03 23:34:23
860.   the2pin
858 You think Pujols or A-Rod are going to become available any time soon?
2008-08-03 23:36:15
861.   Deuce
852 Very good point. I'd submit that Piazza was more valuable, though, because he gave you so much more offense relative to his position.
2008-08-03 23:36:40
862.   Tripon
We could have signed A-Rod last year, and all it would have taken is a mere $300 million dollars!
2008-08-03 23:37:37
863.   GoBears
855 It would be uncool to fill up Jon's blog with CalThoughts, so I'll just say that it depends on whether Tetford thinks Longshore's recent lousiness was due to injury or not. If not, then Riley.
2008-08-03 23:37:52
864.   the2pin
852 Yep. 861 Isn't Piazza considered the greatest offensive catcher of all time? So, yeah.
2008-08-03 23:38:21
865.   the2pin
862 You don't think A-Rod was worth it?
2008-08-03 23:39:12
866.   bhsportsguy
853 Well both "I Love Lucy" and "The Honeymooners" got a lot humor from the fights between husband and wife with the underlying but never shown fear of actual physical abuse.

Plus, I think you had kind of grow up with being on everyday at on local tv for the last 30 plus years.

I don't like a lot of episodes, its more like pancakes, if I order pancakes, I know what to expect, if I watch a Lucy episode, I know what to expect because I have spent a lifetime pouring maple syrup on them.

2008-08-03 23:39:43
867.   Deuce
856 Perhaps. But I think there were other issues in Beantown, too. Could Manny realistically play LF three years from now?
2008-08-03 23:40:00
868.   Greg Brock
861 Regfairfield would tell you that Piazza's slightly above league average offense was swallowed whole by his atrocious, cringeworthy defense by the mid 2000's.

16 million for Piazza of 2005 was terrible. But completely necessary to sign him.

2008-08-03 23:41:39
869.   Tripon
865 Only the Yankees could give A-Rod that kind of contract. Everyone else lives in reality. That, and I don't know if we're able to sign Joe Torre if A-Rod was here. And I think I would have clawed my eyes out if I had to see Grady Little try to manage a clubhouse that just blew up on him.
2008-08-03 23:41:45
870.   bhsportsguy
863 Jon allows occasional college sports talk (both Marty and Eric Stephen fill outnumbered here). But since he is Stanford man, I guess you take a risk bringing up Cal.

Just don't call it the University of California, period. Bob might be protest that.

2008-08-03 23:43:47
871.   Eric Stephen
Plus the trade of Piazza killed Frank Sinatra. Don't let the chronology fool you.
2008-08-03 23:43:52
872.   Greg Brock
If I were a betting man, I'd guess the Dodgers re-sign Manny for four years, 72 million dollars (or thereabouts).

He rakes next year at a 140 OPS+ clip, making it worth it.
Second year is around 128-132, making it acceptable.
Third year he plunges to 120.
Fourth year is bad.

That's worth it, to me. And he puts butts in seats, raising revenue and payroll.

2008-08-03 23:43:54
873.   Jacob Burch
For the first time in a while, a Dodger game delighted me more than a Colts game.

Granted, it was a terrible Manning-less, meaningless preseason game where the Pillbury Throwboy got some TV time. But still, kudos to Manny.

2008-08-03 23:44:38
874.   Bob Timmermann
870
There are many University of California alums here.

Many.

And many of us attended different campuses.

And we're all part of one big happy University of California family.

2008-08-03 23:44:52
875.   Tripon
873 What?! Jim Sorgi is the next Brett Farve!
2008-08-03 23:44:55
876.   Jacob Burch
872 You doubt Boras' powers more than I, but this is pretty close to what I think
2008-08-03 23:45:34
877.   Jacob Burch
375 My brother and I were "Back Home" last weekend and if they had them, would have bought an authentic #12.

They didn't, so we settled for 21 and 87.

2008-08-03 23:45:41
878.   the2pin
869 Signing Torre was a good thing? Toree was the only manager not named Grady on the market?
2008-08-03 23:45:45
879.   Eric Stephen
873
If Nick Harper wasn't stabbed, does he run back the fumble? He missed one cut back!
2008-08-03 23:47:15
880.   Greg Brock
Plus the trade of Piazza killed Frank Sinatra

At least he had nice seats at the yard.

I know from experience (in Chris Farley bus driver voice)

2008-08-03 23:47:26
881.   Eric Stephen
874
And we're all part of one big happy University of California family

Except for UC San Francisco. I hate that school.*

*I don't really hate that school.

2008-08-03 23:47:27
882.   Jacob Burch
879 Probably, but I would have felt dirty for winning the game on such an atrocious interception reversal, and we likely would have lost to Denver if our protection continued to be as bad as it was that game.
2008-08-03 23:47:58
883.   Tripon
http://zip.4chan.org/sp/src/1217831314144.gif

Dancing Papelbon

2008-08-03 23:47:59
884.   Eric Stephen
880
But...you can imagine what it would be like if I did.
2008-08-03 23:48:23
885.   GoBears
874. Kumbaya, baby.
2008-08-03 23:49:10
886.   Bob Timmermann
881
I hate those stuck up Merced students. Always lording over there "we're so new! Look at us!" status.

Almost makes me want to go up to Merced and flaunt my UCLA and UC Berkeley diplomas.

Then I remember that those kids are stuck in Merced. Who wants to go to Merced?

2008-08-03 23:50:08
887.   Greg Brock
884 Good. Great. Grand.

Everybody on the bus!

2008-08-03 23:52:26
888.   Greg Brock
By the way, I have re-shuffled my schedule, and am looking forward to cutting everybody up with my dazzling array of garbage breaking stuff at the DT picnic.

I just hope somebody actually remembers to bring a Wiffle ball and a bat.

2008-08-03 23:52:58
889.   the2pin
885 Not trying to be antagonistic, honestly wondering: was there something more to that "of his generation" comment? Can you think of other RH bats other than A-Rod? I think Pujols bears mentioning, but he's just getting started. Otherwise, I can't think of anyone.

And Pujols and A-Rod aren't available. As I said before, players of that caliber almost never become available because GM's lose jobs over it. I don't think this type of situation is analagous to overpaying for Furcal. If you overpay for a top-10 slugger, my atttitude (within reason) is so be it.

Reasonable minds can differ over how long Manny will continue to rake. But he sure looks good this year. Again, I'd go to 3 years.

2008-08-03 23:53:09
890.   bhsportsguy
886 But is it better than Cleveland?
2008-08-03 23:55:38
891.   Eric Stephen
886
I had the good fortune of sitting at a blackjack table in Vegas with all seats occupied by my family members. My uncle, feeling jovial, asked the dealer where she was from, and she said Merced.

My uncle offered this joke:
Q - What did they do when the Fertilizer Plant in Merced blew up?
A - They called in the National Guard to stop the looters

We laughed, but the humor was short lived as our dealer, now stone-faced, proceeded to clean us all out.

2008-08-03 23:56:25
892.   Bob Timmermann
890
Since Merced is not in Ohio, it must be better than Cleveland. The entire state of Ohio has been declared a "hot zone" by me. I don't enter unless wearing full biohazard gear. Or with the promise that someone will feed me.
2008-08-03 23:57:28
893.   regfairfield
889 The thing is that Manny isn't an elite player anymore. When he was putting up OPS+es in the mid 150s to 180s it didn't matter that he couldn't catch, his bat still provided enough value that he was more valuable than almost everyone in baseball.

Now that he's declining (and will continue to decline) things like his horrible defense start to matter. Manny is still a great player, but at this point his value is more on par with Matt Kemp's than Albert Pujols. If he can keep it at that level, then yeah a four year deal would be great, but I don't know if he can.

2008-08-03 23:57:46
894.   bhsportsguy
886 Did she do it painfully by just having you all bust out or did she just keep drawing to 21?

Making a laugh at a dealer's expense does not usually lead to winning at the tables.

2008-08-03 23:59:15
895.   Tripon
Harvey Pekar is spinning in his grave! (If you know, if he was dead. But still.)
2008-08-04 00:00:17
896.   Eric Stephen
894
Mostly she kept getting 20 or 21, but she would also creatively mix in some busts for us as well.
2008-08-04 00:02:24
897.   the2pin
893 Isn't Manny's OPS+ like 140 this season?

Who was tops before Manny came to town? Martin at like 110? That's....kind of a significant difference, no?

2008-08-04 00:02:38
898.   Greg Brock
Manny isn't an elite player anymore
Manny is still a great player

Andrew, he's 30 points of OPS+ better than Kemp. Matt Kemp, whom I love and venerate with statues and myriad poems, isn't close to Manny Ramirez.

This is where the defense thing really muddles the conversation.

2008-08-04 00:03:11
899.   Jacob Burch
Should I bring my card set to the picnic? Even if we just play for peanuts? Or Jae Seo rookie cards?
2008-08-04 00:05:04
900.   Tripon
I'm sure Jae Seo is very proud about his MLB career.
Show/Hide Comments 901-950
2008-08-04 00:06:45
901.   Eric Stephen
The 4 minute standing ovation for Art Monk at Canton was pretty cool. I'm a sucker for standing ovations.
2008-08-04 00:08:46
902.   the2pin
898 Agreed.
2008-08-04 00:09:10
903.   regfairfield
898 Coming into today:

Manny: 39 VORP, -15 defense
Kemp: 23.9 VORP, +0 defense

There's a 15 run difference between Kemp and Manny offensively, the question is how many runs does the 15 more plays Kemp has made this year mean? I'm not entirely sure but it makes up at least 11 or 12 of those runs, and using the estimates I use, it makes up almost the entire difference.

2008-08-04 00:10:00
904.   Greg Brock
In the Dodger/Godfather lexicon, Jae Seo was the original Fredo.

Dead to me when he walked in the winning run.

Other players, other slappy, work-ethic oriented CF playing players would be Fredo. If they existed to me. Which they do not.

2008-08-04 00:12:06
905.   Eric Stephen
904
Tommy Lasorda is Frankie Pentangeli.
2008-08-04 00:14:00
906.   Jacob Burch
Maybe I can use trading cards instead of trophies for the DT Poker/Black Jack/Pai Gow tournament. This is the distraction essays cause.
2008-08-04 00:14:01
907.   Greg Brock
903 Going 8-13 with two bombs and eight million RBI's in three games...I just don't see how defense is quantifiable compared to offensive output.

This really comes down to defensive metrics, and I don't like or trust them, and you do, and you're probably right and I'm probably wrong.

But there it is.

2008-08-04 00:15:21
908.   the2pin
903 Not that I don't appreciate your defensive "estimates," but fortunately the offensive numbers are comfortingly objective.
2008-08-04 00:15:29
909.   regfairfield
907 If Manny continues to hit .630, I'll gladly admit I was wrong about all of this.
2008-08-04 00:17:38
910.   regfairfield
908 I can tell you that Kemp makes up at least 10.2 runs defensively if he's made 15 more plays. This is assuming every play Manny botches turns into a single.
2008-08-04 00:22:01
911.   the2pin
910 So if he's made 15 more plays (which are equal to singles), those 15 singles equal 10.2 runs? In what parallel universe do 15 runners on first equal 10.2 runs?

If you'd been watching the Dodgers with Jeff Kent hitting cleanup I assure you you'd realize the mathematical inadequacies of your post.

But, then, I'm guessing you weren't a mathematics major. (Forgive me this one bit of sarcasm, I claim defense of truth)

2008-08-04 00:25:33
912.   regfairfield
911 Read up on linear weights. Basically, you go into an inning expecting to score a certain number of runs and every event leads to that number changing.

15 runners on first don't equal 10.2 runs, but 15 singles with a runner on third sure as hell would. 15 with them with runners on second and third would be even more. This is how it averages out to .68 or so runs per single.

2008-08-04 00:25:41
913.   Greg Brock
911 Andrew is awesome. I don't agree with him when it comes to defense, but he doesn't deserve shots like that.
2008-08-04 00:26:44
914.   Jacob Burch
reg has patience beyond me, that's for sure.

So, what was your favorite episode of I Love Lucy, BH?

2008-08-04 00:27:29
915.   Tripon
If you put a scarecrow in center field, would the scarecrow defense be better then what JP, Ethier, and Manny have given us?
2008-08-04 00:28:44
916.   Jacob Burch
Ethier is the biggest plus defender we have in the OF slot, isn't he? My world is crashing in!
2008-08-04 00:29:33
917.   the2pin
911 So Manny Ramirez, LF, makes 15 more plays than Juan Pierre, LF, and is therefore an equivalent player?

You're right, I stand corrected. I see your logic. I see the future -- and it is hovering around .500. Maybe I can live 20 more years if I double down on the veggies.

2008-08-04 00:31:37
918.   the2pin
911 In all honesty, thanks for the mention of "linear weight," I'll look into that. But your nifty insertion of Matt Kemp, who was probably the best overall player on the team, instead of Juan Pierre (who was actually playing most games in LF), was duly noted.

If I wanted a strawman, I'd rent the Wizard of Oz.

2008-08-04 00:32:38
919.   Greg Brock
Unless I'm mistaken, Ethier is a plus corner outfielder by a pretty good margin.

Add that to his decent OBP, and the fact that he never, ever makes mental errors on the diamond, and he's a nice little player.

Imagine if he made 9 million dollars. He might get to sniff the starting lineup.

2008-08-04 00:33:52
920.   Jacob Burch
919 Or referred to himself in the third person more.
2008-08-04 00:34:11
921.   regfairfield
I said Manny Ramirez is probably as good as Matt Kemp now. I don't even think I said the word Pierre.
2008-08-04 00:34:24
922.   bhsportsguy
914 From a sentimental point of view, the episode where Lucy finds out she is pregnant and you see some honest emotion between the real life but troubled married couple of Lucy and Desi Arnaz at the end.

Its strange that I can't think of a funny one, I mean I know all the classics, Lucy does a TV Commercial, Lucy with Harpo Marx, etc.

2008-08-04 00:35:51
923.   Jacob Burch
I remember being very scared of Fred when I was 6 and Nick turned into Nick at Night. Him and the entire cast of F Troop. Dick van Dyke and Mary Tyler Moore made me smile. Almost as much as Hideo Nomo.
2008-08-04 00:38:38
924.   the2pin
921 That is just wicked. I'm a massive Matt Kemp fan, so I guess I agree. Kinda. Matt Kemp is amazing. But, since I havent heard otherwise in almost an hour, Manny Ramirez is the best RH bat of his generation not named A-Rod or, maybe, Pujols.

Matt Kemp, who should be traded under no circumstances and whose name shouldn't be spoken above a whisper by Dodgers management, has a very long way to go.

The Red Sox won championships with Manny Ramirez. In fenway. With the Monster and that crazy LF and the absurd angles they have there.

I think the statisticians are onto something with regard to replacement level players, defensive equivalency, and the like, but a team full of Lyle Overbays doesn't win rings.

2008-08-04 00:42:34
925.   Greg Brock
I'm just Andre Ethier being Andre Ethier. I field my position, work the pitcher, and do everything right. I outperform the other guys, because that's what Andre Ethier does. An added plus...I don't talk about how hard I work, because I don't have to. Talking about work ethic is for losers who can't produce. I put up numbers, baby.
2008-08-04 00:44:38
926.   Jacob Burch
He lost the third person vibe near the end. This is why he's not a major league starter. The standard deviation of his Third-Person-Per-Self-Reference is just through the roof, especially in clutch, end of the paragraph situations.
2008-08-04 00:48:02
927.   Paul Scott
Where defensive metrics are concerned, it is accuracy, context and completeness that may be missing, but not objectivity. The metrics - all of them, except the most craptactular (fld%) - are objective. Several of them are also pretty good. Many (+/-, OZR, ZR+) are much better at evaluating player value than commonly sited offensive statistics such as Pitcher W/L, Saves, Quality Starts and RBI. +/- is better at evaluating defense than BA is at evaluating offense. So, sure, defensive metrics don't yet have a tool that is as effective on defense as OPS (or the variety of more complicated, but barely more accurate linear weights such as runs or wins) is at offense, but it is not the subjective crap shoot several of you are making it to be.

A plus defender can be reasonably measured. If you are unhappy with the measurement when comparing it to offense, then devalue it 80% or so to reflect that distrust. But it is a huge mistake to think of someone like Manny as only offense. Doing so greatly inflates his value and thus making decisions about your team expectations without accounting for defense will lead to a team that will under-perform your expectations.

2008-08-04 00:51:09
928.   Jacob Burch
Two things that scared Six Year Old me more than F-Troop: The (twirly noise) VIA-COM at the end of many of the Nick-at-Night syndications, and the (twirlynoiseDONG) of A Current Affair. If I left the TV on and too loud, I'd have nightmares directly after this.

And I blame defensive metrics for making me talking about this.

2008-08-04 00:51:15
929.   Paul Scott
924 Amusing you should bring up Lyle, given what we have at 1B. Was that an intended?
2008-08-04 00:55:14
930.   the2pin
927 Thank you for your comprehensive post. It was appreciated, and I agree. However, a point that bears mentioning (and I think you'll agree), a Grady Sizemore in the OF is made more important by a horrible LF and RF, and a Manny Ramirez batting cleanup is made more important by the batters that surround him.

We're going from Juan Pierre in left to Manny Ramirez in LF, hardly a downgrade defensively. Juan is that bad. We're going from Jeff Kent to Manny Ramirez in the cleanup spot, which is a HERCULEAN improvement. +150 slugging!!

2008-08-04 00:56:49
931.   Greg Brock
But it is a huge mistake to think of someone like Manny as only offense. Doing so greatly inflates his value and thus making decisions about your team expectations without accounting for defense will lead to a team that will under-perform your expectations.

This, I think, is a really good point. But how many outstanding left fielders are there? Manny is a terrible LF, that's for sure. Who are the great ones out there in left?

Left field is the DH of the National League.

2008-08-04 00:59:40
932.   bhsportsguy
924 I feel like Daffy Duck in the classic Duck Rabbit Duck Warner Bros cartoons but as Daffy said after getting his feathers shot off, "Let's try that again."

Statistical analysis is a wonderful addition to the following baseball. I picked up my first copy of Bill James Baseball Abstract in 1982 or 1983 in a Waldenbooks store at the local mall. And while I may not have understood everything, it was a new look at a sport that I had followed closely at that time for over 10 years.

I am probably somewhere to the right here (on DT) when it comes to statistical analysis mainly because I don't pretend to understand a lot of the nuances. But I buy and subscribe to Baseball Prospectus because I like to read their perspective on the game.

But guys like regfairfield do follow it and understand it so while we may not agree all the time, I respect is usage of those tools.

If you are trying to get across that Manny Ramirez in the last 15 years has accomplished a lot and that he is among the best players in his generation, well you have no problems with me and probably everyone on DT.

But you will get a respectful argument on whether or not he should be signed to a contract after this season and you will also get an argument on whether or not that trade should have been made.

No one is saying that Manny is a bad player but you can argue how much better an outfield with Manny, Pierre and Kemp is against one with Pierre, Kemp or Ethier with LaRoche and Morris still in the system.

I said I like the excitement but that's me. Some others disagree with that and I just agree to disagree with them.

2008-08-04 01:00:50
933.   the2pin
931 Not sure if you caught what you did, but you made the opposite point: since there are so few excellent LF in the NL, LF is where you put guys that are excellent hitters that may be a defensive liability. It's a fact. Remember Bonds with his puddy-arm? Or Juan Pierre, for that matter, with his arm. That's why it is such a major setback when one's team has a slap-hitter playing LF, where a RBI machine should be.
2008-08-04 01:01:16
934.   Paul Scott
903 Your VORP comparison is likely unfair, since Kemp's VORP is at center (mostly) and Manny's is at Left. The OPS difference is over .110 different. Kemp's offense, over a season, is worth quite a bit more than 15 runs over Kemp's.

Of course where overall value is concerned, Kemp should get some credit for being able to play center, but that is more economic than anything else. If you are straight-up trying to compare Manny's offensive value (in runs) and then subtract back out the defensive value (in runs prevented), then using VORP to value the runs is not appropriate. You should use a lwts to calculate the runs each has generated with their offense, unadjusted for position.

2008-08-04 01:02:18
935.   the2pin
929, Yes, 100%. Wonderful of you to catch that.
2008-08-04 01:02:21
936.   Greg Brock
Looking at the VORPiest left fielders in baseball, there are nothing but butchers out there.

Holliday (decent)
Burrell
Braun
Lee
Quentin

2008-08-04 01:04:45
937.   Paul Scott
930 "We're going from Juan Pierre in left to Manny Ramirez in LF, hardly a downgrade defensively. Juan is that bad."

Actually, JP is a barely plus CENTERfielder because of his arm. In LEFTfield, he is, defensively, one of the best in the game. Mind you, his offense is so terrible that he is, appropriately valued, still just a fourth outfielder, but that is another matter. On defense alone, JP is our best LF by a fair margin.

2008-08-04 01:06:19
938.   Jacob Burch
937 Not having the metrics handy, how Slappy stack up with Andre in LF? I sort of figured Juan wasn't that bad in LF (defensively), but thought he'd still trail behind Andre.
2008-08-04 01:07:46
939.   Greg Brock
Not sure if you caught what you did, but you made the opposite point: since there are so few excellent LF in the NL, LF is where you put guys that are excellent hitters that may be a defensive liability.

Not sure if you caught what you wrote, but that was EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING.

2008-08-04 01:10:05
940.   the2pin
939 Pardon me, I'm dense. I confused you with another poster. Onward and upward!
2008-08-04 01:15:08
941.   Greg Brock
940 No worries!
2008-08-04 01:16:53
942.   the2pin
Goodnight all, I must retire. Until next time.
2008-08-04 01:42:19
943.   dontraiseplz
re: Manny's defense

Although it is a consensus that he's a terrible defender, I heard that Fenway's unique left field (the monster) distorts his statistics in the realm of abnormality, basically making him out to be Mo Vaughn in the outfield bad or something.

This is only what I heard from a few Sox fans. he's certainly bad but it could be the case that he's a true -7 bad and not -15 bad. I'm not sure even what stat you are looking at but hopefully it has its glitches.

2008-08-04 02:13:43
944.   Paul Scott
912 Also, not sure where you are getting 0.68 runs per single. The value is apx. 0.46, so you are also overvaluing Kemp's defense. If he does make 15 more plays, and those plays result in singles, he is saving 7 runs, not 10.
2008-08-04 02:42:13
945.   dan310
Not that it necessarily affects Manny's value, but I felt somebody should point out that Frank Thomas is four years older than Ramirez and was a demonstrably better righted handed hitter. I believe he's available this off season too. Might even be willing to play left field for twenty million. Bagwell deserves to be in the conversation too. Unfortunately I don't think he's looking to play.
2008-08-04 04:17:22
946.   gpellamjr
The debate got kind of ugly last night.

Just thought I'd inform you all that far the best episode of I Love Lucy was the one where she gets the trophy stuck on her head. The scene where she's on the subway and no one helps, just sitting around laughing at her is an absolutely hilarious/mortifying/perhaps-over-cynical take on human nature. It was also the last really great episode, and the show would go down hill in season six. Seasons 1 and 2 are the most consistently hilarious, I think.

2008-08-04 04:51:42
947.   Ken Noe
I see this morning in the papers that the great team player and all-around wonderful guy Pierre is whining about moving back to center, and thinks Jones may take some starts away from him. Unlike that troublesome kid Ethier, who says he wants to put the team first.
2008-08-04 05:03:02
948.   D4P
Juan Pierre is allowed to have feelings.
2008-08-04 05:31:53
949.   Ken Noe
Ethier from the bench: Ill do what's best for the team.
Jones from the bench: I know I'm not hitting and I'll do whatever they ask.
Pierre from centerfield: Complain, complain, complain.

The great team player needs to act like a team player. Especially when he's still playing.

2008-08-04 05:34:44
950.   gpellamjr
Let me be the first to point out that, if the Pirates do not sweep the Diamondbacks this week, it is because Andy LaRoche intentionally threw the games out of spite for the Dodgers.

There, I said it. It's out in the open now.

Show/Hide Comments 951-1000
2008-08-04 06:17:36
951.   Bob Timmermann
950
I believe that you have a valid point there. Makes perfect sense.

But how does Cody Ross come into play?

2008-08-04 06:24:18
952.   D4P
Cody Ross is the guy Ned gave away for nothing, who's better than the two guys Ned gave a collective $81 million for 7 years.
2008-08-04 06:32:28
953.   gpellamjr
Okay, I'm watching sports center for the first time in a long time (I have to make use of the HDTV once in a while), and now I get all the references to Brett Favre. And, since I haven't followed football in 10 years, can somebody tell me if Favre is better than the guy the Packers were planning on starting? The SC guys seem to think the idea that Favre might not win the QB competition is ludicrous.
2008-08-04 06:38:08
954.   Doctor
This Pierre piece in the Times is disgusting. Stop whining. Show me another team that would trot out a bad defensive outfielder who hasn't had an extra base hit or a walk in almost a month of playing time. He should be buying Torre a steak dinner every night and saying I'm the luckiest guy in LA.
2008-08-04 07:05:01
955.   ToyCannon
I still haven't gotten over the fact that a guy played a weekend and was crowned the greatest hitter the Dodgers have ever had even when 99.9% of his HOF worthy career was spent elsewhere, while someone like Shawn Green put up two of the greatest seasons ever in Dodger Blue was cast aside because he only remembers the downside of his Dodger career.

932
Great post

2008-08-04 07:06:40
956.   Terry A
"All I've ever done was be Juan Pierre," he said. "I don't know why, for some reason, they're just sticking it to me this year."

Has to be one of the funniest things ever said. You'll be seeing this one again and again.

2008-08-04 07:07:36
957.   Deuce
With the news that Torre is moving Pierre back to CF, I thought I'd mention a few more headlines we might be seeing soon:

Lakers trade for Kwame Brown

Chargers to bring Ryan Leaf to training camp

Magic Johnson to replace Leno on Tonight Show

2008-08-04 07:15:21
958.   D4P
I don't know why, for some reason, they're just sticking it to me this year.

I don't know why, for some reason, they're paying you $8 million this year.

2008-08-04 07:25:50
959.   Ken Noe
MEMO
TO: Juan Pierre
FROM: Dodger fans everywhere
RE: Sticking it

You're right Juan. Torre and Ned are so unfair. Demand a trade--now!

2008-08-04 07:39:41
960.   alexx
Any chance the Dodgers are playing Juan Pierre to try to "showcase" him for a trade?
2008-08-04 08:00:46
961.   MollyKnight
"All I've ever done was be Juan Pierre," he said. "I don't know why, for some reason, they're just sticking it to me this year. I applaud the move. Any time you get a chance to get Manny Ramirez, you get him. But from a personal standpoint, it's putting me in a tough position."

Andre Ethier says that, he's a selfish kid.

2008-08-04 08:06:10
962.   Sam DC
That Pierre quote reminded me of something I wanted to note here; sorry if someone else flagged since I've been remiss in keeping up with my DT.

Anyhow, Paul Lo Duca has gotten plenty of guff over the years for a whole range of things, but I was impressed by his comments when he was released by DC last week:

"When Jim and Manny just called me in there, I apologized, I feel bad. I'm a better player than I played; it's just an unfortunate year this year. I had the knee surgery and just when I started to feel healthy, I broke my hand. I actually started to feel better at the plate. Their reasons are verified, definitely. Kory needs to play. He has future with this organization. And a lot of these guys here, especially Jesus, they need to play. Them giving me my release is sort of a class act by them.

"I think they're making the right move. Other guys in here need to play and I'm taking up a spot. Bottom line. You gotta be honest with yourself. Do think can play? Yeah, most definitely. And I'm going to come back next year, if it doesn't happen this year, and I'm going to shove it to a lot of people, believe me. I can play this game, I know I can. It's just unfortunate. But like I said, a lot of the young kids here need to play. I'm not going to be here next year. Those guys need to get at-bats and learn up here. This is an organization that's going to go in the right direction."

http://tinyurl.com/54tln8

2008-08-04 08:08:09
963.   D4P
961 , see 948
2008-08-04 08:13:09
964.   JoeyP
There are 2 components:

#1. Pitching
#2. Defense

Has anyone accurately correlated how much one influences run prevention?

Is it more important to have a bunch of (+ defenders--using Dewan's system), than pitchers that limit HRs, bbs, have high k's etc..?

It'd seem to me that having a better defense just prevents hits. But hits allowed, is far down the totem pole of correlation in preventing runs as compared to bbs, HRs, K's etc...

You can see the same thing in offense. A player's batting average isnt nearly as correllated in creating runs as his OBP or SLG. Certainly, the batting average is inherent in both, but it alone is not much of a factor in preventing runs.

2008-08-04 08:13:32
965.   Terry A
Choice quotes from Jill Painter's coverage of Pierre in the Daily news:

Juan Pierre isn't the odd man out in the outfield since the acquisition of Manny Ramirez, but Pierre apparently hasn't received the message.

(That message: You stink, but we're playing you anyway.)

"I wouldn't say I'm disappointed, but they put me in a difficult position," Pierre said.

(Play everyday, make $9 million, watch more talented people wither on the bench while not complaining as often as you are. Juan Pierre lives between a rock and a hard place.)

"You go on the bench, and then you work your way back in the lineup..."

(Who the what the? "Work your way back in the lineup? Oh, I see what you did there. By "work" you mean "whine." Well, "working" at this rate, you're looking at a late run for MVP. Or the vice presidency.)

"...and possibly going back to the bench. All I've ever done is be Juan Pierre when I wear this jersey."

(Suggestion: Could you try being Barry Bonds when you wear it? You've got the "working" part down pat. Now work on the, you know, baseball stuff.)

"They're sticking it to me this year for whatever reason."

(Reason #1: You get on base less than 33% of the time, yet still get more chances to bat than anybody else on the team. No, wait... that would be Reason #1 why someone might actually "stick it to" you. From the perspective of everyone not named Juan Pierre, the Dodgers are doing the opposite of that.)

"When you have a chance to get Manny Ramirez, you have to get him. But from a personal standpoint, it's a touchy position for me."

(Yeah, the only thing worse than your team getting a legitimate power threat during the stretch run would be if you were young and far more talented than some random older guy with no skills, but that guy kept inexplicably getting all the PT that should be going to you. But we're dealing in hypotheticals there; no way would any team shoot itself in the foot like that.)

He's started 75 of the 91 games he's been available.

(Team record in those games: 0-75.)

"It's the kind of situation that hopefully, they want me out there," Pierre said.

(No. Unless by "they" you mean Colletti & Torre. In which case, apparently, yes.)

"You have to believe when Andruw (Jones) starts hitting, I'll probably be back on the bench if he strings together two to three good games."

(Juan Pierre's definition of someone "sticking it to you": Losing position to Manny Ramirez. Losing playing time to a [hypothetically] rejuvenated Andruw Jones. Basically, losing playing time to Hall of Fame caliber outfielders. Not Juan Pierre's definition of "sticking it to you": Being bad at baseball. Playing anyway. Making $45 million to play bad baseball.)

"Everyone knows I'm not selfish, but it's a difficult spot they continue to put me in throughout the whole year."

(Juan Pierre's definition of "everyone": Juan Pierre.)

Andre Ethier is the odd man out since Ramirez's arrival, and Ethier has said he's willing to do whatever it takes to see the Dodgers win, even though it meant relinquishing a regular spot in the starting lineup.

(Selfish, clueless prospect. He'll learn someday when they start sticking it to him like they are to Pierre.)

"To me, Juan certainly deserves to play," Joe Torre said. "Juan, for me, will play the bulk of the time."

(Juan Pierre gets it stuck to him again. For the love of Choi, how much can one man take?)

Pierre said Sunday was the first time in his career that he had to change positions during a game, during which Torre made a defensive switch and moved Pierre to left field.

(Isn't anybody gonna help that poor man?)

"It's just a difficult spot for me," Pierre said. "All of us want to play. Obviously, they wanted to go the power route before..."

(Stupid fools.)

"...and I didn't play too much in April."

(Team record in April: 30-0.)

"I've been taking it in stride..."

(Clearly.)

"...and hopefully may [sic] name is going to be written in there every day."

(Juan Pierre is too selfless.)

"There's a lot of uncertainty around here."

(Not for Andre Ethier.)

"The outfield situation is no secret. It's been a tough, tough season."

(Sigh.)

2008-08-04 08:14:08
966.   Bluebleeder87
I was at a covention all weekend long (It was awesome!) but still managed to sneak a game in on saturday, watching Manny Ramirez hit his 1st dodger home run was electric.

Thanks BH for the tix!

2008-08-04 08:15:59
967.   Bluebleeder87
1G
2008-08-04 08:16:01
968.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2008-08-04 08:24:51
969.   Dodger Dawg
I know that juice was involved, but Bonds got better as he got older, and he was still raking at 39.I think Manny can still be good to great in his later years. He is an elite hitter,and they don't come around that often. The Dodgers really need to keep his bat, at least for another couple of years until Kemp becomes a constant power source. As for Pierre, as long as the Dodgers keep winning ,I can handle him, but that said, he still shouldn't be starting over Dre, and would be of best use to this team as a pinch runner.

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