That said, I still believe he is worse than our starting outfielders.

Enumerating. Chickens. Unhatched.

And yes, we'd all go apoplectic if Torre actually did it, but Torre might want to see if Jones still has it, and the top 5 or 6 spots are assured with a line up of Martin, ethier, Manny, Loney, Blake, and DeWitt. Stashing Jones should just create a little larger black hole with Berroa and the pitcher.

Eh, I don't know. Its just as likely that Jones never see the light of day again.

Besides, you've got to hate someone now that Druw isn't playing and Pierre's primarily on the bench. Didn't Laker fans focus their hate on Luke Walton once Kwame was traded???

And it worries me for the stretch run.

You cant be serious in that you'd want Hoffman or Torres over Broxton. Hoffman gives up almost a hit an inning with an ERA of over 4 and an OPS against of .695. Torres does have that nice 2.4 ERA, but doesnt strike out anybody and his numbers are so much better than anything he's ever done before hin his career. Broxton is perfectly fine as a closer and worlds above those two. Maybe its the eyes or the mouth positioning or the cheekbones of the other two that make them superior, but as for plain pitching ability, Broxton is superior.

http://tinyurl.com/6exqns

By the way, the best closer in the NL this year is probably Mr. Beach Boy himself, Brian Wilson.

From what I have seen this year there is not a single situation where I could see using Jones over other people on the roster as beneficial. Not one.

BP has a Clayton Kershaw article, but I don't have a BP account. :(

Is it indefensible to say that I'd rather have Saito than Broxton in the closer's role?

I never said anything about doubting his ability. I know he has the skill set. I see him get shaky when the pressure mounts. Not a characteristic I like in my closer.

Seriously, Hoffman? HOFFMAN?

Broxton - 3.36 ERA, 13 saves, 20 save opportunities, K's 81, BB's 22, 290 lbs.

Wilson - 4.04 ERA, 37 saves, 40 save opportunities, K's 60, BB's 25, 196 lbs.

Are you sure he is worse at everything?

So who would you rather have - a young guy who you perceive as shakey, but gets the job done or an old, experienced vet but is a far worse pitcher? Give me the guy who gets the job done. The boxscore doesnt show nerves or anxiety of the fans, all it shows is results. And really, how can anybody tell what a pitcher is feeling? We're not inside his head, we have no idea what Jon is thinking. For someone to assume that he cannot handle the pressure by just looking at him is sort of insulting.

I'd rather have a healthy Saito also because when he was healthy he was one of the top 3 closers in baseball. Takashi was absolutely brilliant, and he and Gagne have spoiled all Dodger fans when it comes to closing. Ask Met fans or DBack fans if they would take Broxton.

Broxton = 132+ ERA, and Broxton's two's years younger at 24.

It isnt fair to Broxton to use his blown saves. Many of those came in the 8th inning role where it is possilbe to accrue a blown save but not collect a save. It would be better to add up his holds/saves and then use the blown saves. He has 26 holds/saves and 7 bown saves. It also is easier to blow a save as a setup guy than as a closer where you start the 9th with nobody on. Broxton "blew" a save this year where he probably allowed an inherited runner to gtie the game, but threw 1.2 innings and allowed only 1 walk while striking out 3. And yes, Broxton is a far sbetter pitcher than Brian Wilson in every way shape or form.

29 - Would you rather have a better +ERA or 37 saves?

I think we can all agree that we are lucky to have Broxton. Having said that, he is a work in progress and we all hope that he continues to improve.

The thing is, he ISNT a work in progress. He is a terrifc pitcher having a "down year" with a 133 ERA+! and I'd rather have the guy with with begtter numbers rather than a guy with more saves (a stupid statistic in its own right) because the guy with the better numbers is a better pitcher with the ability to put up more 0's than the worse pitcher.

But I stick to my guns about him being a work in progress. His fastball is fast. But too often this season, it has been right down the plate with no movement on it. I think he will improve upon this as he continues to pitch (or 'progress,' if you will.)

http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2008/09/report_new_york_mets_billy_wag.html

I don't care about saves (I am bitter that spazzy-Mcgee-K-rod is going to break that stupid record with cherry-picked opportunities,) but I do care about wins. And a good way to get a win is to have a lead late in the game and have your bullpen hold the lead. I don't care how it's done, I don't care who does it.

We have a great bullpen. I like how we stack up against anybody in the NL except for maybe the Cubs.

Things are good in DodgerLand right now. No more negative from me.

"You can say bounces haven't gone our way and they had a few jam-shot hits," said D-backs manager Bob Melvin about a team that came into the series with a 1 1/2-game lead. "But when you're going good, those things don't happen. That's baseball."

As a statement of correlation, that might be right, but if it's meant as a causal statement (as it usually is) then I think it's backwards.

Corrected:

But when those things don't happen, you're going good. That's baseball."

And I wanted MORE saves. MORE! MORE! MORE!

I want to beat my brother. I've already beaten my nephew. And Sam DC's son.

My point is simply this. I like broxton, I think he's a good pitcher. I loved him in the setup role. He makes me nervous in the ninth and I hope that doesn't come back to haunt us in a critical situation down the stretch.

Point me at all the statistics you want, with two runners on in the top of the ninth yesterday I was sweating bullets. I'm glad he (and the rest of the team) pulled through and I celebrate our victory with all of you.

Anyone feeling commenting fatigue?

I won't talk playoff rosters yet at all, but will just say I can't imagine any contending team with better 'pen depth than that, if Saito does come back healthy and effective.

Anyway, my point would be, that you are a fan just like me. And you give me anyone on the mound, anyone, no matter how good, if the division is on the line, and we're protecting a slim lead and the other team has runners on base, I would be nervous. That's not a reflection on Broxton, but on us as fans. We invest a lot in teams we root for, but for those last outs in the ninth, we are powerless and another human being, no matter how good, seems to be in control of the game. So, it's normal to feel nervous, think the worst, see fear in others' faces that might be in our gut, or something along those lines.

All that being said, I would trust Broxton in those situations. Broxton does not have the gaudy save totals of pitchers who have pithced ninth innings all season, but how many sticky situations has he bailed the Dodgers out in the eight inning? You could argue that Saito's numbers look as good as they do because he's got a set up man who cleans up the messes others have made so Saito can mostly just start with a fresh ninth inning.

Also, it is not wrong to say Broxton is a work in progress. But that should not imply that he is not already a very good ML pitcher. Broxton is young and still learning a lot of things about pitching. But you could say that about Billingsley too and he is among the top 10-15 pitchers in the NL already.

Anyway, not trying to argue or attack you. I actually understand your point and often feel the fears you do in the later innings. But those fears should not be a reflection on Broxton's abilities or on him being the closer.

Let's not throw Broxton out the window. There aren't and never have been a lot of Riveras or Gagnes (when he was great) or even Sutters or Gossages or Eckersleys (we do remember an instance of Eck failing spectacularly, don't we?). Broxton's doing quite well, even though he's shown tendencies similar to Don "Two-Pack" Stanhouse once in a while.

http://www.chordie.com/song.php/songartist/Beatles/index.html

Try www.ultimate-guitartabs.com

Thanks a lot guys! Much appreciated.

http://www.guitaretab.com/b/beatles/

You'd need at least three or four very burly men in order to do that. And a really big window.

Speaking of Dodger DHs, any way we can claim Olmaedo for our upcoming series against the Pirates?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yt8582

The advantage is that the charts are in the same key as the originals.

I own some old songbooks that I purchased in Japan, which makes for interesting English translations of the lyrics. The music's right, but the words!

0 - I think there's a difference between "sore" and "hurt". Sore is the cumulative effect of playing baseball everyday for 149 games (plus spring training). Hurt is something else. I think Broxton's point is that at this point, you have to play through soreness that you might take a day off for in June or July. Playing hurt, is different.

A lot of athletes see playing hurt as a noble act - sacrificing their own well being and health for the sake of the team. It's also somewhat selfish, I'll admit, the idea that the team can't survive without you. It's a balancing act, and that's where the coaching and training staffs have to weigh in.

Gotta get that psychological edge, man.

Too many people have the notion that big guys like Broxton can take more physical abuse than their peers. It was awful how frequently Broxton was used at the end of last year. If he had weighed just 200 lbs, my guess is that he would have been shut down in early September. I've wondered throughout the season if his use in 2007 has had an impact on him this year.

It seems to me that what's keeping Broxton from becoming a truly elite closer is that his fastball doesn't have any movement. With a little movement, he could throw nothing but fastballs, and he would be as good as anyone.

I vote yes.

Oops!

It's actually www.ultimateguitar.com

Oswalt posted a 2-0 record with a 0.00 earned run average and one shutout in leading the NL with 17.0 innings pitched. ...

http://tinyurl.com/5tbmn7

Hear, hear.

http://tinyurl.com/5s5nfz

Tourneau, the world's largest watch store, will award both Andre Ethier and Roy Oswalt with a luxury Swiss Timepiece, suitably engraved, in recognition of their accomplishments as Bank of America Presents the National League Player of the Week.

Things will undoubtedly change between now and the start of the playoffs just like they changed in the last 9 days, but not since the Piazza days will we take the field with the best hitter in the playoffs. And this time it won't be with a tired catcher but a crazy left fielder.

What watch?
Ten watch.
Such much?

Gurnick also likes the Dodgers' chances at keeping Furcal around for another season, saying that "it's clear he doesn't want to leave."

Dodgers to Snakes:

"Veni, vidi, vici."

Only 5 hours away!

I hope Hallux shows up.

uenimus, uidimus, uicimus!

Underdog has arrogantly picked the Broncos to win the AFC Worst, but wouldn't be surprised with a season series split with the Raiders. Whether the win is tonight or the other game, who knows. Don't expect a lot of receptions by WR's for either team tonight is my only prediction.

---

"Mareichtag and I are speaking nothing but English now."

Hm, I wonder where Hallux is these days actually. Maybe you guys scared him off with your Raiders this and Raiders that. Or maybe he... defected to the Rockies! ((gulp!!)

Chargers 10-6
Broncos 9-7
Raiders 7-9
Chiefs 5-11

Biggest surprise: Russell's sharp play.
Chargers SB window closes if they don't get it this year (mainly because you start to question Norv Turner, in the same manner Gruden is questioned beyond that first year honeymoon).
Broncos fans finally start getting impatient with post-Elway Shanahan.
Chiefs had a great draft and solid future, just not yet.

Fargas will still be Oakland's top rusher (I'm taking the crazy odds that he stays healthy all season).
Zach Miller becomes one of AFC's top receiving TEs.

142 All sounds very possible.

Dodgers in 1st With 19 Games Left
1962: up ½ over SF (lost 3-game playoff)
1963: up 3½ over StL (won by 6 games)
1966: up 1½ over Pit (won by 1½)
1974: up 3½ over Cin (won by 4)
1977: up 11½ over Cin (won by 10)
1978: up 4 over SF (won by 2½)
1980: tied with Hou (lost 1-game playoff)
1983: up 3 over Atl (won by 3)
1985: up 7½ over Cin (won by 5½)
1988: up 5½ over Hou (won by 8)
1995: tied with Col (won by 1)
1996: tied with SD, up 1 on Mon for WC (won WC by 2)
1997: up 2 over SF (lost by 2)
2004: up 4½ over SF (won by 2)
2006: up 1½ over SD, up 4 over Phi for WC (won WC by 3)

The Year of Brian Johnson really stands out.

Side note: I never realized Tom Neidenfuer got the loss in the Joe Morgan HR game (Forster gave up the HR). Did the Dodgers have 3 worse losses in the decade than the Neidenfuer games (counting also the final two games of the 1985 NLCS)? Maybe the Jay Howell pine tar game, but that was washed away by the end result of that year.

143 In my senior year, my high school team, Monrovia, was the number one ranked in their CIF division (AAA then I think). Then they were disqualified from the playoffs because it was found out they practiced on a field outside of the high school during Spring practice.

I think San Diego probably goes 12-4, or so. As for the rest of the division, I think Denver can get in as a wild card team (maybe) and the Raiders and Chiefs are still playing for the future. Though the Raiders are probably closer.

https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/11098.html

Every team has nutcase fans.

Well, except the Marlins.

Martin, C
Ethier, RF
Ramirez, LF
Loney, 1B
Kemp, CF
Blake, 3B
DeWitt, 2B
Berroa, SS
Maddux, P

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1619711

1) Al Davis. Probably the worst, most mercenary of any owner in the NFL.
2) The fans. See 160 , but they attract a seriously thuggish following.
3) The team. When they're not breaking the rules, they're losing. No winning seasons in the last five years. Not that I'm advocating being a front-runner, but it seems to me that joining up with a losing team is just a bad idea. (I should bring this up with Helen and her Cubs someday...)
4) It's the NFL.
5) It's football. (2) is merely a exaggerated case of what passes for normal among football fans; if you like violence, football's a great game. I'm unimpressed.

Also, Tony Kornhesier, who I love, is a terrible football commentator.

After all these years, Green Bay fans still can't spell Favre's name.

184 - Never was a Raider fan-they were in Oakland when I first followed football-I was a Ram fan in the Fearsome Foursome days. Never warmed to the Raider image, even though I did respect Marcus Allen and thought Al Davis treated him like garbage. To this day, my favorite teams are anyone who beats the Raiders :). My love for the Rams left when that "late hit former showgirl, carpetbagger took them to St. Louis"! I enjoy a good game with good QB and quality games with well run teams. I have gone to SD and watched a couple Charger games the last two years. LT seems like a class act and a hard worker. Congratulations to Ethier for being Player of the week in the NL along with Oswalt. Let's keep the hitting going Blue away from the Ravine!!

Of course I played basketball and we did not win the CIF title that year. We did go undefeated in the Empire League though. We had this pesky team called Mater Dei in our division with a guy named Miles Simon so I doubt we would have won the CIF title anyways.