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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Rain Is Wet, Until It Dries
2008-11-03 10:30
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

The idea of a neutral-site World Series has gained momentum like, well, like a bad idea rolling downhill. This weekend, Bob Timmermann offered an opposing viewpoint at The Griddle that I support.

My own thoughts? With a sound policy on rain (or snow) delays, there's no need at all to move to a neutral site. Don't want to play in the rain? Then don't play in the rain. Wait until the rain stops. The problem in the 2008 World Series wasn't with Philadelphia, it was with the various people determined to try to ignore the inevitable.

Does it really matter that Game 5 finished two days later than intended? If your choice is finishing the World Series on time or letting fans see their teams in their hometowns, do we really need to think hard about which is more important?

If baseball were to make a move toward a neutral-site World Series without doing anything to ensure games start and finish earlier so that more people can enjoy them, that would strike a new blow for disingenuousness.

* * *

Jamey Newberg (via Baseball Musings) writes about the success of Greg Maddux's older brother, ex-Dodger Mike Maddux, as a pitching coach. Mike is bound for Texas. Food-for-thought for those interested in the Dodgers retaining Greg as a player-coach.

Comments (151)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-11-03 10:45:16
1.   silverwidow
But San Diego would charge the Dodgers a premium because the teams are in the same division, and the Padres are asking for young pitching in return. The Dodgers don't intend to part with 20-year-old left-hander Clayton Kershaw. - Dylan Hernandez

CK is in our rotation next year, with Peavy or without.

2008-11-03 10:45:50
2.   Icaros
Are visitors to the Toaster from outside of California getting the Yes on Prop 8 ad?
2008-11-03 10:47:50
3.   fanerman
2 Thank Ch-i for Adblock.
2008-11-03 10:47:59
4.   Eric Stephen
In the latest Ken Gurnick mailbag (http://tinyurl.com/5zlt3n), he has this statement:

...the franchise's results with multiyear contracts in the past decade is worse than abysmal.

That seemed kind of harsh, but let's look at this decade to see what we are dealing with:

2000
1) Extended Eric Karros (3/$24). Karros put up a cumulative 94 OPS+ over the next 3 years (only Travis Lee and Kevin Young were worse NL 1B offensively)
2) Signed newly acquired Shawn Green (6/$84) one year before his FA eligibility. Had 3 great seasons in his first 4 years in LA, before a shoulder injury hampered his power. Overall, Green had a 130 OPS+ before being traded. I'd still call his signing a success.

2001
3) Signed Darren Dreifort (5/$55). Ended up pitching only 210.2 pain-filled innings in 5 years, racking up an 87 ERA+. One of the worst FA deals in MLB history

2002
4) Signed Hideo Nomo (2/$12.25). Two really good 16-win seasons (112 & 130 ERA+), but fell off a cliff in the 3rd (option) year (4-11, 50 ERA+) in 2004. I'd rate this signing as a sizable net positive for the club
5) Signed Kaz Ishii (4/$12.2). Very wild pitcher (5.8 BB/9 with LA), but up a 92 ERA+ in 3 seasons before being dealt to the Mets for 1B/C Jason Phillips. Bad signing.

2005
6) Signed Jeff Kent (2/$17). Initial two years were outstanding (133 & 119 OPS+, before total rigor mortis set in defensively). 2/$20 extension was questionable given the cliff dive of 2008, but I'd rate it as a net positive.
7) Signed J.D. Drew (5/$55 with an opt out). A broken hand halved his first season in LA, but he put up a 133 OPS+ in his 1.5-season Dodger career before opting out. I'd rate the signing as a positive.
8) Signed Derek Lowe (4/$36). I remember being outraged at this signing at the time, but Lowe was an absolute bargain, putting up a 122 ERA+ over 4 solid seasons. An unqualified successful signing

2006
9) Signed Rafael Furcal (3/$39). When healthy, he was one of the best SS in the league. However, ailments limited him to about two seasons worth of games over three years, only half of which were played while fully healthy. Still produced a 99 OPS+ over the contract with plus defense. Because of the cost, I'd rate this as a slight negative.
10) Signed Brett Tomko (2/$8.7m). Ugh. 10-18 with an 86 ERA+ over most of two seasons before being foisted upon the Padres.
11) Signed Bill Mueller (2/$9.5m). Played 32 games before getting hurt and becoming the highest-paid scout in MLB history. Ugh, again.

2007
12) Extended Nomar Garciaparra (2/$18.5). Rode his amazing first half of 2006 to an extension. Blocked Loney for a while in 2007. Immensely popular, but his 85 OPS+ over 2007-2008 makes this deal a bust.
13) Signed Juan Pierre (5/$44m). Of the 66 players with 1000 or more PA in 2007-2008, nobody has been worse offensively than Pierre (73 OPS+): (http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/JkN6). Pierre is an excellent baserunner though.
14) Signed Jason Schmidt (3/$47m). Schmidt and his 25.2 Dodger innings is trying to make Dreifort's contract look like a bargain.

2008
15) Signed Hiroki Kuroda (3/$35.3). Hard to judge only one year in, but thus far has been a success (119 ERA+, plus two exciting home playoff wins).
16) signed Andruw Jones (2/$36.2). Unmitigated disaster thus far (34 OPS+, 5 singles in 58 AB with RISP). Dodgers hope to weight and see if Andruw will contribute at all in 2009.

So of the 16 signings (I might have missed a couple) this "decade" (2000-present), I would classify them like this:

Great (1): Lowe
Good (6): Green, Nomo, Kent, Drew, Furcal, Kuroda
Poor (5): Karros, Ishii, Nomar, Tomko, Mueller
Disaster (4): Dreifort, Pierre, Schmidt, Andruw

Certainly not a stellar record, but there have been enough positives to avoid the "worse than abysmal" moniker ascribed by Gurnick.

2008-11-03 10:50:13
5.   natepurcell
anyone wanna rate my fantasy basketball team? i need opinions on how to strengthen it....
2008-11-03 10:51:28
6.   Eric Stephen
5
Bring it!
2008-11-03 10:53:29
7.   Eric Stephen
4
I meant to put Furcal in the "Poor" category (slightly), but the overall point still stands that the FA record hasn't been "worse than abysmal."
2008-11-03 10:54:42
8.   ToyCannon
Frank could promise post season baseball for Dodger fans and be right.

I've always voted at the booth because I enjoy the experience but I really wish I'd followed my wife's advice and gotten an absentee ballot this year. I'm not one for lines and when you have 85 year old's handling the process a line of 10 people would take them a 1/2 hour to process.

It isn't McCain/Obama but a close vote is going on at True Blue over who they consider to be the 2nd best prospect in the organization.

2008-11-03 10:59:35
9.   Jon Weisman
8 - I love the voting experience, but my dislike for lines trumped it. I went on the permanent vote-by-mail list and have never looked back.
2008-11-03 11:02:11
10.   Eric Stephen
9
I can't stand lines either, but my polling place is roughly 1000 feet from my apartment and is reasonably efficient, so I enjoy it still.
2008-11-03 11:04:41
11.   silverwidow
8 I voted for DeJesus; OBP skills, defense up the middle, and speed. Very nice combo.

Lambo will be a great pure hitter, but his Ks are a bit high right now. Also need to find out if he's a 1B or LF.

2008-11-03 11:05:41
12.   Eric Stephen
Mark Bowman, the Braves beat reporter for MLB.com, did some digging regarding Furcal and found that:

1) Dr. Robert Watkins "predicted that he'll be able to avoid any further problems"
2) Cubs, Tigers, and Giants have shown the most interest (not sure of the source on this of course)
3) His gut feeling is that Furcal will return to LA (huge grain of salt here)

http://tinyurl.com/5b6mbc

Normally I wouldn't post this speculation, but I thought the doctor info was newsworthy.

2008-11-03 11:06:39
13.   LogikReader
I feel like Plaschke started the whole "Neutral Site World Series" idea and everyone else tagged along.

I'm not sure. Didn't Plaschke start the fire on this one?

I can't believe anybody is taking this seriously.

2008-11-03 11:07:57
14.   fanerman
8 I hope to one day vote at the booth. I'd love to just turn the crank or however it all works. Plus you get a free sticker, and this year you get free Krispy Kreme and Ben n' Jerry's! (or so my friend tells me)

I'm currently voting absentee as I'm still registered in SoCal even though I live a bit north. Perhaps when I make my triumphant return to SoCal I can vote at the booth.

2008-11-03 11:08:22
15.   fanerman
13 I can't believe people are taking the "Martin to 3B permanently" thing seriously.
2008-11-03 11:08:36
16.   Harold M Johnson
Is multiyear contract redundant? Have the Dodgers done any 1 year contracts lately? What's their record on none multiyear contracts?
2008-11-03 11:08:41
17.   Marty
A political ad on a site that bans political talk. Interesting. All I can say is I'm not clicking on that ad.
2008-11-03 11:08:58
18.   Jon Weisman
13 - I think Plashcke was first on it before the Series started, but I think others came to the same conclusion without him. I mean, they all attended the same rain delay. It wasn't like Newton and the apple.
2008-11-03 11:10:06
19.   ToyCannon
4
It is about what you would expect for a team who has only won 2 playoff games this decade. While it may not be abysmal if if wasn't for Depo's Kent/Lowe/Drew it would be worse. I noticed you ignored Depo's biggest mistake, Odalis Perez, any particular reason?
2008-11-03 11:12:48
20.   Eric Stephen
16
There are lots of 1-year contracts from year to year. For example, Nomar's first Dodger deal was a one-year deal in 2006.

It's usually bench guys (Saenz, backup catchers) and/or veteran reclamation projects (Park, Alvarez, Lima, etc) though.

2008-11-03 11:13:35
21.   ToyCannon
4
I also think the original signing and the extensions should be treated as two separate transactions. When a player is already under contract like Kent was, whatever happens with the extension shouldn't be graded as part of the FA signing.
2008-11-03 11:13:41
22.   regfairfield
4 I'd personally call Kent, Drew and Green great. Our track record isn't horrible, there's just a few really, really, bad ones.
2008-11-03 11:14:29
23.   Eric Stephen
19
No, I just missed that one. Chalk that one up as a disaster for sure.
2008-11-03 11:15:16
24.   Eric Stephen
21
I meant to do that. I'd rate Kent I as great, and Kent II as good.
2008-11-03 11:18:20
25.   ToyCannon
Any thought at all to bringing Pedro back as fill in for the back of the rotation? I've seen very little news on him.
2008-11-03 11:20:48
26.   Eric Stephen
25
But Astacio hasn't pitched since 2006. That's why there hasn't been much news on him.
2008-11-03 11:22:43
27.   fanerman
I just got an email telling me to download a free Dodgers toolbar. I would get instant access to news, videos, standings, and more. I think I'll pass.
2008-11-03 11:26:37
28.   Eric Stephen
According to the Denver Post, Mike Maddux's deal with Texas is in the neighborhood of $600k.

http://tinyurl.com/6p7bwz

Also, at the GM meetings today, one of the topics is "arbitration hearings." I wonder what specifically is being discussed.

2008-11-03 11:26:58
29.   Bob Timmermann
Neutral site World Series were a pet cause of Mel Durslag and Jim Murray for a long time.
2008-11-03 11:39:25
30.   ToyCannon
29
I could get behind a neutral site for the 7th game if it wasn't for all the logistical problems related to a moving target for the date.
2008-11-03 11:39:33
31.   Louis in SF
2

I live in California and I got the Prop 8 ad

2008-11-03 11:42:29
32.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think the Prop 8 ad is a big deal. I'm certain that there are people who read the site who either:
1) support the measure
2) don't care

Now if it were an ad advocating a neutral site World Series, I would be apoplectic.

2008-11-03 11:47:12
33.   Dodger Tony
As a long time reader of this blog, I was disappointed Jon at seeing your support for Proposition 8. I have no problem at all with your support of the measure, it is your blog after all. I just felt put off by it in a forum that I have enjoyed for its focus on the Dodgers and has remained neutral in issues outside of the organization.

Had you posted about the high speed rail I wouldn't have cared. I perceive Prop 8 as a divisive hot button issue that seems best expressed in another forum. It made me very uncomfortable.

2008-11-03 11:48:04
34.   Bob Timmermann
30
So, you would advocate something like a 2-3-1-N setup for the World Series?

The press corps would hate that even more. The biggest reason for writers supporting a neutral site is that they don't want to travel as much. They just want to check into a hotel for 10 days and forget about stuff.

2008-11-03 11:48:51
35.   regfairfield
33 Jon doesn't have control over what goes there.
2008-11-03 11:53:50
36.   ToyCannon
34
No I was thinking more along the lines of
2
2
1
1
Neutral Game

or

Neutral Game
2
2
1
1

but you can't do it with the moving target of who would be playing unless all tickets are sold to the public, and the teams involved don't get any. The problem with that is that I don't think they could sell the tickets at World Series prices to neutral fans. I don't care about weather I'd just like to eliminate the home field advantage in the World Series. I understand it during the playoffs because best record in your league should be recognized.

2008-11-03 11:55:30
37.   Harold M Johnson
33 Those are served automatically by Google, although I believe it is possible to turn of "political" ads in the settings.
2008-11-03 11:57:04
38.   Bob Timmermann
On the Griddle, you can still see the infuriating IQ test question with the triangles!
2008-11-03 11:57:45
39.   Gen3Blue
Eric S., thank for the review of Multi-year contracts. Even if it wasn't totally inclusive, it showed that we would have done better in a straight crapshoot. Dreifort, Perez, Schmidt, Tomko and Ishi---I don't know if there was much poor judgement here, or if it says more about long guaranteed contracts for pitchers. I see Pierre and Andruw as very different things, one a mistake, and one a gamble.
2008-11-03 11:58:20
40.   Bob Timmermann
UCLA's game at Washington on November 15 will be the late game on FSN starting at 7:26 pm.

"Interjections are separated by a comma when the feeling is not as strong."

Oh, boy.

2008-11-03 11:58:37
41.   mwhite06
38 The answer to that is the highest number, right? I didn't feel like taking the IQ test and then paying to see the results.
2008-11-03 12:00:39
42.   Bob Timmermann
41
The right answer isn't even one of the choices!
2008-11-03 12:10:34
43.   savvyjr
Any word from the Winter Meetings yet?
We Dodgers fans should brace ourselves I think. My intuition tells me, that we end up even younger and more inexperienced to start next year that we were this year after Nomar and Jones went down. I'm most worried about the pitching staff, sans Lowe and Penny.
2008-11-03 12:11:07
44.   Jon Weisman
I didn't even know a Prop 8 ad was running on here. I still have only seen the triangles.
2008-11-03 12:16:51
45.   Eric Stephen
43
The winter meetings, where there is a lot of wheeling and dealing, don't happen until December 8-11 in Las Vegas.

What is going on right now is the GM meetings in Dana Point. These meetings tend to deal with more procedural things (like instant replay, length of games, etc) rather than deals.

2008-11-03 12:17:42
46.   Jon Weisman
Meanwhile, I'm currently standing in the lobby of Princeton Plainsboro Teaching Hospital.
2008-11-03 12:19:40
47.   Bob Timmermann
46
For the love of God, don't get treated by Dr. Cuddy. She'll screw up!
2008-11-03 12:20:14
48.   savvyjr
My bad...that's right. I do know the Phillies picked up Brad Lidge during GM meetings last year though.
2008-11-03 12:26:12
49.   trainwreck
Anyone want to explain to me why the Pistons wanted a PG that does not play like a point and takes 20 shots to get 20 points?
2008-11-03 12:30:04
50.   fanerman
49 Apparently Iverson's contract expires at the same time as Sheed's. This could set them up to have cap space to afford max or near max players in the summer of 2009 and 2010.

2010 free agents include LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Amare Stoudemire, Ray Allen, Tyson Chandler, Manu Ginobili, Richard Jefferson, Joe Johnson, Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki and Michael Redd.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-11-03 12:31:09
51.   fanerman
50 That is according to True Hoop:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-36-1/Joe-Dumars-Strikes-Again.html

(I hope that link is short enough to not bother tinyURLing it)

2008-11-03 12:32:59
52.   regfairfield
47 The problem will get figured out in 55 minutes, as long as Jon doesn't mind some unnecessary testing.
2008-11-03 12:33:23
53.   das411
18 , but if you ask any of the 49,500 of us normal people, aka not spoiled sportswriters, who were at that game we'll all tell you it was the best time we've ever had at a ballpark! Then again, why should our opinions count, we're just the ones who pay for the tickets, food, memorabilia, and MLB.tv...grrrr.....
2008-11-03 12:33:51
54.   trainwreck
50
Aww that makes sense, but problem with NBA salary cap structure is that most players have to sign with old team to make the most money and I doubt some of those teams want to do a sign and trade.
2008-11-03 12:34:40
55.   trainwreck
UCLA football accomplished something this year...

Setting up the firing of Phil Fulmer.

2008-11-03 12:36:17
56.   Eric Stephen
55
Also, thanks in advance for beating Oregon State this weekend.
2008-11-03 12:36:17
57.   Bumsrap
I much prefer a shorter earlier ending season than have a neutral site. If there had to be a neutral site I would go with a 2, 2, NNN series.

I watched DeJesus play in the AFL and he looked more polished defensively than anybody else that played, hit the ball hard and impressively, guided a ground ball through the middle. Never before have I been sitting in a place where I could see a hitter purposely guide a ground ball up the middle.

2008-11-03 12:37:53
58.   trainwreck
56
If only you were talking about basketball.
2008-11-03 12:45:05
59.   Gilberto Reyes
4 Eric, thanks for the great summary. Too bad that Gurnick didn't bother to put in as much time for research as you did before he wrote his article
2008-11-03 12:46:31
60.   deburns
re:57 I just got back from Phoenix and saw DeJesus as well. He hit the ball with authority but seemed a little shaky defensively. Lambo looked overmatched at the plate but looked fine in LF. Some at the Shandler conference I attended thought DeJesus was mailing it in at times.
2008-11-03 12:50:14
61.   Ken Arneson
I have turned off all ads for the next two days.
2008-11-03 12:53:07
62.   trainwreck
61
I guess I won't be finding my Korean soul-mate.
2008-11-03 12:54:08
63.   Bill Crain
61
Ken Arneson for POTUS!
2008-11-03 12:55:02
64.   natepurcell
Bring it!

Sorry I went to lunch...ha..10 team league...h2h action.

Guards
Deron Williams
Andre Miller
Peja
Manu Gibnobli
Jammer Nelson
Anthony Parker

Forwards
Josh Smith
Elton Brand
David West
Gerald Wallace
Al Thorton
Darrell Arthur

Centers
Andrew Bogut
Ilgauskas
Spencer Hawes

2008-11-03 12:57:59
65.   trainwreck
64
If anything I would say you would need a guard.
2008-11-03 13:00:19
66.   Ken Arneson
63 Well, I do have more professional foreign policy experience than Sarah Palin does.
2008-11-03 13:03:54
67.   Physics DR
I have been in this electoral vote poll for 28 years now.

SOOOOO

Obama wins the electoral vote 364-174. Carries all the usual democratic states plus Minn, Iowa, Missouri, Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada, Florida, Penn, Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, and Florida.

Just a poll and some money down on the outcome.

2008-11-03 13:05:12
68.   trainwreck
67
That is a big number.
2008-11-03 13:05:49
69.   Eric Stephen
64
Do you start 8 players per week (one for each position, plus 3 others)?

I would try to acquire a center, using one of your guards (Peja or Ginobli) and forwards (West or Wallace).

Your base is solid with Williams, Miller, Smith & Brand. Bogut is decent enough, but an upgrade would be nice.

I like Al Thornton a lot. Every second Camby is hurt will help his rebounding totals.

2008-11-03 13:06:54
70.   natepurcell
65

I know, I am very guard light.

One of the strategies I tried going for is to secure wins in all the columns that people overlook -blocks, steals and assist.

This is a new strategy...we'll see if it works. Any ideas on any good sleeper guards I can snatch up or make an under the radar trade for?

2008-11-03 13:07:05
71.   Jim Hitchcock
35 years ago, when I was the only long haired white boy in an African American History class at Westchester High, I couldn't even have imagined what is about to take place tomorrow.

Got to admit, I'm thrilled.

2008-11-03 13:07:06
72.   ToyCannon
61
Excellent decision.

It is amazing how great the first 5 minutes of SNL have been since Sarah Palin was nominated, and how bad the rest of the show is. Does that show still resonate for many of you?

2008-11-03 13:08:30
73.   Ken Noe
46 Lupus? Vasculitis? Seriously, please tell the writers to dump the new doctors. I like Ned more than Thirteen.
2008-11-03 13:09:01
74.   ToyCannon
69
Not going to help his shooting %. If Baron doesn't get back on the court he's going to have a dismal season.
2008-11-03 13:09:07
75.   Bill Crain
66
I guess I meant to say VPOTUS.

Does winning a bet by insulting a foreign-born centerfielder count as professional?

Forget it; I call Rule 5 on myself.

2008-11-03 13:10:04
76.   natepurcell
69

I think its 10 spots per week.

PG
SG
G
SF
PF
F
C
C
Util
Util

2008-11-03 13:10:24
77.   Ken Noe
71 I was in third grade when my school desegregated. Never thought I'd see something like this.
2008-11-03 13:12:19
78.   Eric Stephen
Carlos Santana named "High A Batter of the Year" by MLB.com

http://tinyurl.com/5ddtx7

It says he was the 4th San Bernardino player to achieve the honor. The only one I can think of as a guess is Ken Griffey, Jr.

2008-11-03 13:13:01
79.   trainwreck
70
Roger Mason Jr
Russell Westbrook- Will get you steals and a couple of assist. Turnovers may be an issue.
CJ Watson- Warriors are giving him PT.
Rodney Stuckey- Probably will get even more playing time at point.
Mario Chalmers
Jordan Farmar
Stephon Marbury- Probably free agent and he is going to go to a new team.
2008-11-03 13:14:35
80.   trainwreck
72
No, I stopped watching years ago. Has not been funny in a long time.
2008-11-03 13:16:01
81.   Eric Stephen
72
I still record it every week, but I'd say only 10-20% of the show is funny. I really liked the Affleck impression of Olbermann this weekend, but the skit was waaaay too long.
2008-11-03 13:16:14
82.   natepurcell
79

I like the Stuckey option...Are they going to play a lot of AI?/Stuckey backcourt combos?

2008-11-03 13:17:32
83.   trainwreck
82
That is what I assume, because Afflalo is still not getting many minutes and I know they love Stuckey.
2008-11-03 13:18:27
84.   ToyCannon
78
Given the post season honors he's been getting it is a safe bet to say he would have been our number one prospect this fall. With McDonald being our number one prospect I don't see him being ranked by BA higher then Santana after getting only ranked the 14th best prospect in the Southern League, and Santana nailing number two in the Cal League. I remember trading Diggins and Konerko but I don't remember ever trading a number one prospect who had not played above A ball. Anyone?
2008-11-03 13:19:04
85.   Andrew Shimmin
If this group wants to run an ad, I think you should let them:

http://tinyurl.com/5jnzx2

2008-11-03 13:25:57
86.   Gen3Blue
78 I hope this story doesn't continue the trend of getting worser and worser.
2008-11-03 13:28:17
87.   NWdodger
67

I hate to bring up rule 5, but this is my last politic-free sanctuary.

2008-11-03 13:28:27
88.   Gen3Blue
84 Off-hand no.
2008-11-03 13:29:40
89.   Eric Stephen
85
That would be in stark contrast to other ads, and I wouldn't mind anyone making a buck off that.
2008-11-03 13:32:37
90.   ToyCannon
86
When Carlos Santana throws out the first pitch to his namesake in the 2011 World Series we will have reached the nadir.
2008-11-03 13:37:33
91.   blue22
67 - I know Obama is a Chicago politician and all, but if he wins Florida twice someone's gonna notice. :)
2008-11-03 13:39:14
92.   Gen3Blue
Konerko's first brief call up's look a bit like LaRoche's. But then I noticed he was like 2 years younger at the time. Talk about giving up on someone too early! We didn't get much for him did we?
2008-11-03 13:42:21
93.   kinbote
92 Jeff Shaw. On the plus side, Tommy Lasorda learned a lot about how not to make trades.
2008-11-03 13:43:45
94.   Marty
Nobody's mentioned the worst part of a neutral-site WS. If they did that, the All-Star game would be meaningless. Meaningless!
2008-11-03 13:45:01
95.   Gen3Blue
93 I'm not sure on that one. I'm afraid if Tommy had the power a few years ago we might have given up this current core for a handful of magic beans.
2008-11-03 13:56:51
96.   bhsportsguy
Dodger's Top Baseball America Ranked Prospect 2004-2008

2004 - Edwin Jackson (pitched AA/MLB)
2005 - Joel Guzman (High A/AA)
2006 - Chad Billingsley (AA)
2007 - Andy LaRoche (AA/AAA)
2008 - Clayton Kershaw (Low A/AA)

2008-11-03 13:57:50
97.   Humma Kavula
94 I can fix that by adding injury to insult:

1. Make the WS a neutral site.
2. The team representing the league that won the All-Star Game needs to win only three games to be declared champion. In the case of a "4 games to 3 tie," the all-star game winner shall also be declared champion.

Thus: imagine.

The AL wins the All-Star Game. Later, in the World Series played at Tropicana Field, the Dodgers go up (!) 4-0 on the Red Sox. Sweep, right? Wrong. The next three games are played and the Red Sox win all three and are declared World Series Champs!

Done. How'd I do?

2008-11-03 13:59:53
98.   ToyCannon
96
The best thing about that list is how many players were better then the top ranked prospect in 2004/2005 and possibly 2007.
2008-11-03 14:00:22
99.   ToyCannon
97
Silly rabbit
2008-11-03 14:03:31
100.   Gen3Blue
97 In honor of Halloween, frightfully well.

96 I used to have a few issues of BA from the early 'oughts, and I think the streak is solid a few more years back. Darn, I've been unable to find them for a couple of years.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-11-03 14:04:24
101.   ToyCannon
96
I loathe my Clippers right now. Rarely have I had this emotion during my 18 years of connection with them. Hopefully it will pass.
2008-11-03 14:10:00
102.   Eric Stephen
The Konerko trade occurred right around the time I was discovering sabermetrics. I still remember the murderous look in the eyes of both my brothers when I told them I didn't think Eric Karros was very good.

From 1999-2002 (Karros's last four years as a Dodger), here are the OPS+ of both Karros and Konerko:

1999: 132 Karros / 116 Konerko
2000: 100 / 111
2001: 84 / 119
2002: 96 / 124

For that four year period, Konerko outproduced Karros (117 OPS+ over that period compared to 104 for Karros), and was paid a total salary of $6.62m. Karros during that same time period earned $25.25m.

If Lasorda's claim that "bullpens win championships" (his justification for the Shaw trade) is true, I'm sure they could have found a few high-quality relievers for the difference in salaries of Konerko and Karros (at the very least Karros wouldn't have been signed to the 3/$24 extension before 2000).

2008-11-03 14:13:12
103.   Eric Stephen
102 ,4
My mistake earlier. Karros's extension was signed in 2000, but was for the 2001-2003 seasons, the last of which was in Chicago.
2008-11-03 14:13:40
104.   Disabled List
If MLB want to make a radical alteration to the game, why can't they ever come up with good ideas? It's always lousy ones like realigning the leagues, or making home-field advantage dependent on the All-Star Game, or moving the World Series to a neutral site.

That last one will never happen. What baseball hotspot would they play these seven games at? Boston or NY? Bad weather. The Florida cities? Please. Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix? Meh. And LA? Dodger Stadium didn't even sell out for playoff games involving the DODGERS. I can imagine all the empty seats for say, Phillies-Rays.

2008-11-03 14:21:51
105.   Eric Stephen
104
Didn't the Dodgers sell out all four home playoff games this year? At least by tickets sold they did.

I guess the bleak circumstances surrounding Game 5 caused some folks to stay home (also judging by how hard it was for some DTers to get rid of tickets for that game).

2008-11-03 14:29:06
106.   bhsportsguy
105 If the Dodgers had just beaten the Phillies, we could have postponed this discussion.

Though then there would be complaints about the cross-country travel

2008-11-03 14:34:00
107.   kinbote
What's taking so long on the Gary Bennett decision? I'm dying here! ;)
2008-11-03 14:38:50
108.   Eric Stephen
107
Still two more days (I'm guessing 54-ish hours) to be on pins and needles!
2008-11-03 14:40:18
109.   Disabled List
105 Before Game 3 of the NLCS started, there were tickets available for all three home games on Dodgers.com. The Great Game 5 Ticket Dump-off was a low point. That was a really awful showing by Dodger fans.
2008-11-03 14:43:11
110.   Eric Stephen
109
I thought the extra tickets available for at least 3 & 4 were due to the late release of extra tickets (usually tickets previously reserved for other mlb teams, sponsors, etc).

Going by tickets sold, at least according to the Dodgers, all home games were sellouts.

2008-11-03 14:43:33
111.   Harold M Johnson
How many tickets available on Dodgers.com? 500 tickets out of 56,000 isn't that many.
2008-11-03 14:45:52
112.   Disabled List
110 The McCourts have been cooking the books on attendance figures ever since they bought the team. And late release or not, those tickets still went unsold. I remember somebody posting in here that there were several thousand tickets available for each of those games on Stubhub, and most were going for face value.
2008-11-03 14:49:30
113.   Eric Stephen
112
Do the Dodgers "cook the books" more than other teams? Attendance is measured across baseball by tickets sold rather than a turnstile count.

I don't doubt that there could have been less than 56,800 people in the stadium for the NLCS games, but I think the difference is negligible.

2008-11-03 14:52:51
114.   SortaLaSorda
My precocious eight year old posed a good question to me, and I thought I would check here: What current major league baseball player has been traded the most? Can anyone here help?
2008-11-03 14:53:39
115.   ToyCannon
112
But those are sold tickets and are being resold. The McCourts have done nothing different regarding attendance figures then any other owner unless you know something specific.
2008-11-03 14:55:12
116.   regfairfield
Sheffield has been moved five times, that's probably a good start.
2008-11-03 14:55:45
117.   Jon Weisman
114 - Here's my question.

Does the depth of a puddle affect the evaporation rate of the water?

2008-11-03 14:56:26
118.   bhsportsguy
114 I know Mike Morgan played for double digit teams but he probably was not traded that many times.
2008-11-03 14:56:32
119.   Harold M Johnson
And, a more basic point is that the Dodgers are consistently among the highest drawing teams in MLB, year in and year out.
2008-11-03 15:00:14
120.   bhsportsguy
117 The surface area of the puddle that influences the evaporation rate.
2008-11-03 15:01:28
121.   68elcamino427
Nolan Ryan - We Went to see him pitch in his next to last game in Anaheim. The next game he threw at Oakland his arm finally gave out. I read that he secretly worked out on a universal weight machine between starts. He said if his coaches would have known they would have freaked. This was long before training with weights became fashionable. In that day the practice was thought to make one muscle bound and reduce flexibility. Ryan was a pioneer in that regard. Ryan and Maddux. That has the makings of a great combo.
2008-11-03 15:10:28
122.   Xeifrank
I am more bothered by the cold than the rain for these World Series games. Starting the games earlier is a better idea than moving them to a warm weather site, heck almost any solution is better than moving to a warm weather neutral site. Once again, I'd recommend, double-headers and/or 150 game schedules before anything else I've heard mentioned.
vr, Xei
2008-11-03 15:10:34
123.   Eric Stephen
114 ,116
Brad Ausmus is also at 5 times being traded.

Milton Bradley is at 4.

2008-11-03 15:11:33
124.   regfairfield
123 Tons of guys are at four that I've thought of. Kenny Lofton is at six but he doesn't count anymore.
2008-11-03 15:13:17
125.   Eric Stephen
114
Our own Mark Sweeney has been swapped six times! He's the leader in the clubhouse.
2008-11-03 15:14:03
126.   Eric Stephen
Ron Villone has been traded seven times!
2008-11-03 15:41:54
127.   trainwreck
120
Welcome to UCLA, Keenan Graham!!
2008-11-03 15:59:47
128.   goofus
Furcal filed. I'd like to see him back but I wouldn't want to overpay for him. Would this work? We give him $8 or $10 million for 1 year with a club option to hold onto him for 2 more years at $25 or $30 million, and we give him an opt-out clause after the first year. If he's bad, we don't exercise the club option and part company. If he comes back strong, we take the option. If he thinks he can then get a better contract, he opts out and becomes a free agent again. I think that's win-win.
2008-11-03 16:03:53
129.   das411
Woah wait a minute, is the Roger Mason Jr in 79 the Junior of the Roger Mason of the '93 Phils??
2008-11-03 16:08:26
130.   scareduck
112 - I would like to see some evidence of this. By "cooking the books", do you mean "fewer people at the park than listed in the official attendance"? If so, this makes McCourt no worse than anybody else, though it might make some combination of fans who don't show up (who are uninterested in the proceedings) and scalpers (who are overly optimistic about filling said seats) to blame. Since payouts to the away team are based on official attendance, there's actually an incentive to lie in the downward direction. Now that I think about it, I do wonder that the league doesn't have some means of checking on actual attendance by way of looking at in-game video.
2008-11-03 16:11:05
131.   trainwreck
129
I found a story about Roger Mason Jr getting a tattoo for his deceased dad and he died in 1991.

So I guess no.

2008-11-03 16:28:23
132.   arborial
117 , 120 the depth would also affect it because the deeper it is the better it would be able to conduct heat, therefore a deeper puddle would have more temperature stabilizing capabilities and cause it to evaporate slower. But as 120 states the surface area would have a greater impact than the depth.
2008-11-03 17:14:29
133.   herchyzer
102 . I got off the Karros bandwagon the year the Piazza/Karros/Mondesi Dodgers went to the playoffs and did squat. My reasoning was something like that "There's something quite off with this club and it's not Piazza." I decided to take out my disgust on Karros. I decided then that he didn't have enough power for his average to be as low as it was. I don't know if that's "saber", or even true. It's just what I decided.
2008-11-03 17:31:39
134.   ToyCannon
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Is showing the compensation picks over the last decade. I'd forgotten that we nailed DeWitt because we lost Qualls.

2008-11-03 17:31:44
135.   bhsportsguy
130 The LA Times did a story about this last year.
2008-11-03 17:48:15
136.   Eric Stephen
134
Paul Quantrill?
2008-11-03 18:10:41
137.   scareduck
117 - I suppose it might; if a puddle is shallow enough it's easier to heat.
2008-11-03 18:21:37
138.   ToyCannon
136
Mixed up my relief pitchers whose name starts with "Q".
2008-11-03 18:30:27
139.   scareduck
114 , 118 - Mike Morgan played for 12 teams.

Kenny Lofton and Royce Clayton both played for 11, but they retired at the end of 2007. Matt Stairs currently holds the major league record among active players for having played for the most teams with 11. Surprisingly, the trade to Philadelphia was only the third of his career (it was the fourth if you consider the Rangers picking him up on waivers in Sep. 2006).

Alan Embree has been traded five times so far as I can tell. I don't have an easy way of determining who the most-traded player, but there is one Dodger who came straight to the top of my mind, Bobo Newsom. Traded 19 times (I'm including transactions where he was released and signed as a free agent as trades), his career was very peripatetic.

2008-11-03 18:31:49
140.   Jacob Burch
134 I had forgotten Paul Quantrill until that post. I think he was apart of the first bullpen I could name ever player of, and was the first sign to me that "Huh. I've become a huge sports nerd."

Granted, this is a relative realization--both in regards to present company and my present self.

2008-11-03 18:34:18
141.   Eric Stephen
139
7-time tradee Ron Villone has also played for 11 teams.
2008-11-03 18:39:58
142.   Eric Stephen
140
I think he was apart of the first bullpen I could name ever player of

That's certainly a great bullpen to remember! My favorite stat from that pen was Tom Martin allowing 5 of 42 runners to score.

2008-11-03 19:02:14
143.   jasonungar07
Asked if he could foresee a scenario where the Dodgers would sign both Ramirez and Sabathia, Colletti said, "That would be difficult."

--
Is it the lack of fan support?
Is it the media market we play in?
Is it that both guys wouldn't want to play on the west coast?
Is it that you don't feel by adding them we would win?
Was it not enough sold out games?
Not enough merchandise?
Do Ethier, Kemp, Martin, Loney, DeWitt, Bills, Kershaw, Broxton etc cost too much already?

Why is it so difficult.

2008-11-03 19:11:31
144.   Jacob Burch
143 Because the combined $ they'd want is probably going to be larger than the budget that's set? It's not a happy conclusion, but it's not at all surprising.
2008-11-03 19:15:41
145.   neuroboy002
117 No, it's the top layer that has molecules escaping at a faster rate than those condensing on the puddle from the environment. Take two glasses of water, each with the same volume, but different surface areas. You wouldn't expect one to have a lesser volume of water after being left in a room for a week at room temp. Now, if one puddle was in the sun, while under the shade... there would be your difference.
2008-11-03 19:21:23
146.   scareduck
143 - Andruw Jones, Juan Pierre, and Jason Schmidt.
2008-11-03 19:24:04
147.   scareduck
141 - wow, I thought he was out of the majors.
2008-11-03 19:42:52
148.   El Lay Dave
Using Retrosheet's transaction database, the most traded active players I could find are the aforementioned Ron Villone and Ray King (is he still considered active?) - seven each.

Amongst the inactive, the most-traded players I could find were traded eight times:

Dick Littlefield was traded eight times in the 1950s, a ninth (rather famous) trade involving a Dodger icon was voided.

Recent Dodger batting coach Mike Easler was traded eight times in the 1970s and 1980s.

Willie Montanez was traded eight times, including being replacement compensation for Curt Flood refusing to report to the Phillies.

2008-11-03 19:49:28
149.   El Lay Dave
148 The database I used contains transactions through 9/30/2007.
2008-11-03 19:52:15
150.   El Lay Dave
149 Correction: through 12/31/2007
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-11-03 19:54:42
151.   Jon Weisman
NPUT

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