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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Boras: Maddux Likely To Retire
2008-11-03 19:49
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Scott Boras told Joel Sherman of the New York Post (via FoxSports.com) that Greg Maddux has all but decided to rest on his considerable laurels.

"He hasn't made a final decision, but for now it is doubtful he will play (any longer)," Boras said at the GM Meetings. "As it stands now, he is not going to play."

Many of us (though perhaps not Rick Honeycutt) wonder: Will Maddux be the Dodgers' pitching coach someday?

Comments (204)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-11-03 19:58:32
1.   Eric Enders
Not as soothing as the headline "Maddux: Boras likely to retire" would have been.

(And as for the actual headline, perhaps Rick Honeycutt wonders most of all.)

2008-11-03 20:02:35
2.   Eric Stephen
Congratulations to Maddux on a great, great career. There are so many things to remember him for (the classic late tail on his fastball to get a called strike three, the 17 gold gloves, etc), but I will remember him for two moments with the Dodgers:

1) The "Welcome to LA" no-hitter for six innings in Cincinnati in his first Dodger start
2) The 67 pitches over 8 shutout innings against Schmidt and the Giants on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball

Thanks for all the great memories, Mr. Maddux.

He never did give up that 1,000th walk either (finishing with 999, including ending his career with 19 straight walkless innings).

Oh yeah, chicks dig the longball:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUY4wvu6DQ4

2008-11-03 20:03:26
3.   trainwreck
Fun to see a great retire as a Dodger.
2008-11-03 20:04:38
4.   Icaros
The Dodgers should pick up Brad Penny's option, and then pay Maddux $2 million to be Penny's brain for the season. They could be like Master Blaster from Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.
2008-11-03 20:10:27
5.   Eric Stephen
3
Joining such HOFers as Eddie Murray, Max Carey, Kiki Cuyler, George Kelly, Hoyt Wilhelm, and Juan Marichal.
2008-11-03 20:18:25
6.   Eric Stephen
So Hoyt Wilhelm's final season was 1972, his "age 49" season. He last appeared in a game for the Dodgers on July 10, and was released on July 21. The thing is that was 5 days shy of his 50th birthday. It's a shame he didn't get to pitch as a 50-year old.
2008-11-03 20:20:32
7.   Icaros
Didn't Don Sutton get retired by the Dodgers in '88? Jeff Kent might also make the list.
2008-11-03 20:21:06
8.   Eric Stephen
The Heidi Klum Guitar Hero commercial is much better than the Kobe/A-Rod/Phelps/Hawk one.
2008-11-03 20:22:04
9.   Eric Stephen
7
Yeah, but Sutton's a HOF as a Dodger. I was trying to include guys that made their hay with other teams first. Kent certainly counts too, if he retires.
2008-11-03 20:24:55
10.   Icaros
9

Well, Sutton rolled in the hay with quite a few teams after the initial breakup in LA.

2008-11-03 20:25:29
11.   immouch
dumb question: what, exactly, does a big league pitching coach do? i was a catcher in high school, so i got to hear our coaches offer excellent advice like "throw strikes" and "don't stand there, throw" and "hey, that guy's gonna steal if you don't throw to first once in awhile" (we didn't win much)... anyway, i'm thinking big league pitching coaches have more to say than that and that maddux, should he choose to spill his guts, might have more to offer than most.
2008-11-03 20:26:00
12.   Eric Stephen
10
OK, he's the Jenny Gump of the list then. :)
2008-11-03 20:28:25
13.   Icaros
12

Four different teams in seven seasons! What a mimbo.

2008-11-03 20:32:41
14.   Eric Stephen
11
Mechanics, strategy, planning work between starts or relief appearances
2008-11-03 20:33:39
15.   Eric Stephen
13
He also had better hair. I like Forrest Gump, Jr. though rather than Spawn of Sutton.
2008-11-03 20:40:52
16.   trainwreck
Ricky Henderson.
2008-11-03 20:42:10
17.   Eric Stephen
16
I'm still waiting for another comeback. :)
2008-11-03 20:58:13
18.   Icaros
17

All you gotta do is pay Rickey.

2008-11-03 21:11:56
19.   Eric Stephen
Since 1947, Maddux's 1995 featured the fewest HR given up (4) by a pitcher with 200 or more innings:

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/yU4T

2008-11-03 21:12:44
20.   godvls
My lasting memory of Maddux will a game I saw him pitch at Wrigley Field against the Padres in 2006. My wife and I made had attended our first ever game at Wrigley the previous day on a miserable rainy, windy day in Chicago. The following day my wife decided that she'd rather go shopping than spend another "miserable" day at the ballpark. Thank goodness I chose to go to the game rather than join her on a shopping expedition. Maddux pretty much demonstrated all of his considerable HOF skills in that game:

7+ innings - 0 earned runs (1 unearned)
1 basehit
1 stolen base (Not bad for a 40 year old pitcher)
1 amazing fielding play on a high chopper behind the the mound in which he fielded the ball over his shoulder (a la Willie Mays in the '54 Series), wheeled and gunned the runner down at first.

Maddux left the game leading 3-1. Of course, Dempster came in and gave up a three run homer to Piazza in the 9th to blow the game.

That ballgame epitomized the career of Greg Maddux. It was a pleasure to watch.

2008-11-03 21:15:28
21.   Eric Stephen
20
Awesome. I think I remember listening to that game on radio. I distinctly remember hearing Piazza's HR.
2008-11-03 21:24:09
22.   Eric Stephen
20
1 stolen base (Not bad for a 40 year old pitcher)

Man, Chris Young really just ignores the runners, doesn't he? :)

2008-11-03 21:30:55
23.   Jacob Burch
Maddux played the biggest role in the best regular season game I ever went to--the dual with Schmidt, the walk off--just an awesome, awesome game.
2008-11-03 21:37:24
24.   Greg Brock
11 Wow, you had lousy coaches.
2008-11-03 21:51:12
25.   ryu
The Clippers are so awful.
2008-11-03 21:55:14
26.   Eric Enders
For years, every time I'd go to a Braves game, I'd miss Maddux. It would always end up being somebody like Kevin Millwood or Denny Neagle starting. For a long while, Maddux was the only future Hall of Famer of the last 30 years who I'd never seen play in person.

Then he got traded to the Dodgers and karma reversed itself. I ended up attending two of his starts, which coincidentally turned out to be his two best starts as a Dodger. (The quasi-no-hitter in Cincinnati, and the one this September that was the first Coors Field game ever tied 0-0 after nine innings.)

2008-11-03 22:15:18
27.   nme
Maddux has been one of my all time favorite players. His 1995 season was something to behold. Absolutely amazing. I am happy that I had the chance to see him don Dodger blue, although I probably would have been happy to see him stay with the Braves and retire in ATL. He truly is/was one of the most perfect ballplayers I can think of, both mastering pitching efficiency and fielding while swinging a pretty good stick at the plate.

Hopefully we see him in a Dodger uni for years to come, as a coach that is. If not, I look forward to the Hall induction in 5 years.

2008-11-03 22:20:39
28.   LoneStar7
I'm so glad i got to see maddux pitch live as a dodger

2 that commercial was hilarious by the way i'd never seen it

2008-11-03 22:22:30
29.   dzzrtRatt
How 'bout his excellent little relief stint in the playoffs? He had some nice flourishes here at the end.

I try to live my life as intelligently as Greg Maddux pitched, and usually fail. It's hard to be as consistently smart as Maddux.

2008-11-03 22:27:20
30.   Greg Brock
I try to live my life as Greg Maddux pitched...With a discreet little dip of tobacco wedged in my mouth so nobody can catch me. He was the master.

He taught me how to live.

I'll miss him.

2008-11-03 22:32:23
31.   Eric Enders
I try to drive as Greg Maddux pitched... 88 mph with pinpoint control.
2008-11-03 22:42:07
32.   Eric Stephen
I try live my life like Greg Maddux batted...lots and lots of planned sacrifices.
2008-11-03 22:47:34
33.   68elcamino427
I will try to live my life the way Greg Maddux worked the home plate umpires -

winding up with a strike zone as wide as a coffee table on the outside corner.

2008-11-04 00:27:43
34.   Ken Noe
I try live my life like Greg Maddux's teammates, avoiding him in the shower. Heck of a career though.
2008-11-04 04:56:15
35.   old dodger fan
I'd like to live my life they way Maddux pitched, Making the most of what I have and learning to adapt and succeed as things change.
2008-11-04 06:43:09
36.   Jon Weisman
Vasgergian leaving Padres broadcast team after seven years

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2008/nov/03/padres-s4padtv/?padres

2008-11-04 06:49:03
37.   Terry A
36 - Wonder if this has anything to do with the rumored breakups/shakeups of ESPN's baseball broadcast teams.
2008-11-04 07:17:18
38.   Bob Hendley
I will try to live my life like Maddux pitched, try to keep it close for at least five innings and then let the young gas throwers take over.
2008-11-04 07:21:12
39.   Ken Noe
Per Rosenthal: "Read into this what you will: Dodgers GM Ned Colletti, asked to list his team's offseason priorities, mentioned the left side of the infield, the bullpen and starting pitching, in no particular order. Informed that he had failed to mention a certain power-hitting left fielder, Colletti said, "You could add that, absolutely."

So, a run after CC, DeWitt at second, Furcal, and Crede et al to third?

2008-11-04 07:26:03
40.   Eric Stephen
It sounds like Vasgersian either got a national or non-baseball job, because in the article he spoke of missing spring training.
2008-11-04 07:31:00
41.   Eric Stephen
I am in line to vote and the are two lines (2 entrances) so at some point we merger. A guy 3 spots ahead in my line decided to try the other line, and is now like 5 spots behind me. Cue Nelson Muntz.
2008-11-04 07:56:25
42.   ToyCannon
Just finished voting. I was 7th in line when I got there at 06:40. By the time I voted the line was probably 100 strong and boy do I feel sorry for them. The same lame people are working this polling place and true to form I had to show them where I was on the list as they kept missing me. The guy in front of me literally took 5 minutes before they figured him out.

Classic case of great management. Two high school kids hand out the ballots after the centenarians fail time after time to find a person in the registar. Then the guy running the machine didn't realize it was unplugged when it came time to count the ballot.

I appreciate what these volunteers are doing, but at some point someone has to tell Jane Pittman that she gets to hand out the ballots and Liza will be handling the registration part of the transaction.

2008-11-04 08:06:59
43.   Jon Weisman
Re: Diamondbacks second-base situation

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/030047.php

2008-11-04 08:08:32
44.   D4P
Did any of you voters push the "Barack Obama" button only to have the machine respond "One vote for John McCain"...?
2008-11-04 08:12:58
45.   Eric Stephen
42
I had to show them where I was on the list as they kept missing me

Were they looking under T for Toy, or C for Cannon? :)

Classic case of great management. Two high school kids hand out the ballots after the centenarians fail time after time to find a person in the registar

Did you happen to vote at a movie theater?

2008-11-04 08:20:20
46.   Jon Weisman
42 et al - It's not a huge deal, but I'd like to keep the election stuff in the election thread - so that DT readers who want this to remain politics-free can have that.
2008-11-04 08:24:45
47.   Disabled List
The Boston Globe keeps the fires burning:

A couple of executives speculated that there might be a new team with interest in Varitek: the Dodgers. There is a Boston connection in owner Frank McCourt, and the Dodgers could play Russell Martin at third some of the time.

2008-11-04 08:25:15
48.   CajunDodger
45
The same 4 old ladies have been manning the polls that I vote at in Sierra Madre for the past 5 years. They are a blast to watch; kind of like the perfect combination of the Soup Nazi and Betty White. "Here's your ballot, now move along sweetie." That site always runs smoothly.
2008-11-04 08:30:11
49.   CajunDodger
47
I wish this Martin-to-third garbage would go away. Pick up Henry Blanco from under the Cubs and call it a day.

I want us to get turned down by Manny and see us signing CC, Furcal, and Orlando Hudson. My fear is that we will sign Dempster, Renteria, and Eckstein.

2008-11-04 08:35:18
50.   Bob Timmermann
This paragraph indicated why I disliked Vasgersian's work so much:

Said Vasgersian: "It was every fraternity boy's dream to have a job and be able to do what we did and get paid for it. The only thing that could have made it unpleasant is if I didn't like the people I worked with, but I loved the people I worked with. I almost feel like I have to turn in my hall pass. It was such a great time."

I just wanted to watch a baseball game and not listen to the "humor" of the USC Greek system.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-11-04 08:35:59
51.   Ken Noe
49 I think it's interesting that Nedster specifically mentioned the left side of the infield, as opposed to up the middle if you assume DeWitt or Martin at third. I'm thinking he signs a third baseman--Cleveland paper says he's talking to Blake, Crede's out there, etc.

http://tinyurl.com/5lxchc

2008-11-04 08:40:31
52.   Bob Timmermann
Happy Birthday to Linkmeister!
2008-11-04 08:54:57
53.   Eric Stephen
Peter Gammons reports that Brad Penny "knows he needs to get in better shape" and has started working out at the Athletic Performance Institute in Los Angeles.

Still 36-ish hours to go before the Dodgers have to decide on Penny's option.

2008-11-04 09:13:42
54.   goofus
53 Can he lose 50 pounds in 36 hours? If so, I want that address...
2008-11-04 09:21:13
55.   Eric Stephen
Khalil Greene will make $6.5m in 2009, and is eligible for free agency after the season. Last season he signed a two-year deal for $11m covering his final two arbitration-eligible years (2008-09).

He turned down a 4-year, $29m deal at that time, with the lure of free agency looming. He was coming of a 27 HR, 97 RBI .254/.291/.468, 100 OPS+ season and was +7 defensively (10th in MLB).

Fast forward one year, and unless he greatly improves after a disastrous 2008 (.213/.260/.339, 64 OPS+, -4 defensively) I don't think he will get the $18m over the first two free agency years that he already turned down.

His prOPS shows the decline last year wasn't as bad, but still a decline nonetheless:

2007: .268/.306/.469
2008: .255/.301/.404

The Padres are, not surprisingly, looking into trading Greene:

http://tinyurl.com/5q6v4r

2008-11-04 09:24:19
56.   silverwidow
How long do we have to wait on the Penny announcement? I hope it's today...
2008-11-04 09:28:37
57.   Eric Stephen
56
Per Diamond Leung's P-E article today, Colletti plans to speak with Penny's agent, Greg Genske, soon.

The kicker: Genske is also the agent for one Carsten Charles Sabathia.

2008-11-04 09:41:08
58.   kinbote
I think the big question is: Does Brad Penny signed for one year at $9.25 mil. have a positive trade value? If so, we have to exercise the option.
2008-11-04 09:43:51
59.   Kevin Lewis
Unless we know Penny's arm is injured for sure, we almost have to exercise the option.
2008-11-04 09:49:30
60.   kinbote
Similar to the Sheffield situation a couple years back, I think Colletti will look to match up a trading partner before he exercises the option. Perhaps that's what's taking so long. I have a hard time seeing Penny in a Dodger uniform next year.
2008-11-04 10:06:02
61.   CanuckDodger
What's harder to believe: That anybody thinks Penny's option WILL be picked up, or believes that it SHOULD be picked up? His arm IS hurt, he was a 6.00 ERA pitcher this year when he actually could pitch, he blamed the front office for his injury, attributing it to their not picking up his 2009 option a whole season in advance, and he went AWOL when the rest of his team was in a pennant race. And people want to throw $9 million at THAT guy? As dumb as the Dodgers may sometimes be, they're not that dumb.
2008-11-04 10:06:09
62.   OhioBlues12
Penny to the Brewers for Weeks? What is the ceiling for Weeks does he have any value as a buy-low candidate?
2008-11-04 10:11:10
63.   Jon Weisman
61 - I think he went AWL.
2008-11-04 10:12:02
64.   CajunDodger
60 61
It might be slick for Ned to pick up the option and then offer to cover the buyout amount in exchange for another player in trade. That would give a team needing a 4-5 starter a short term cheap option in exchange for whatever hole we have.

We get a major league player instead of a draft pick (assuming arb is offered) and are on the hook for nothing more than we would have had to pay anyway.

2008-11-04 10:18:55
65.   Eric Stephen
64
If the Dodgers decline the option, there is no way they would offer him arbitration unless they somehow contractually get him to agree to decline it.

If Penny accepts, he will earn more than the $7.25m difference (between option and buyout).

2008-11-04 10:21:32
66.   CanuckDodger
63 -- If that were true the Dodgers absolutely would have made a point of announcing he had their permission to leave at the time he left, but instead they remained quiet as a graveyard about the matter until Torre said something long after Penny was gone that was merely construed as permission being given. Clearly Torre trying to make it look like one of his players didn't give him and the rest of the team the middle finger.
2008-11-04 10:24:53
67.   Jon Weisman
66 - I think the point - which mostly backs up what you were saying before - is that if they wanted him around, they would have had him around. I think they were quite content to have him go out of sight.
2008-11-04 10:25:08
68.   CanuckDodger
64 -- No team is going to be interested in Penny at $7 million a year, so he would be untradable without the Dodgers eating a lot of salary. Penny will be signed by somebody, but it will either be for chump change or it will be an incentive-based deal.
2008-11-04 10:29:19
69.   CanuckDodger
67 -- Exactly. The Dodgers were so fed up with Penny that when he went AWOL their attitude was "good riddance." They were happy to see him go away then. They are happy to see him go away now.
2008-11-04 10:32:10
70.   Eric Stephen
These relationships are similar:

CanuckDodger : Brad Penny
JoeyP : James Loney
Me : Amy K. Nelson
D4P : Pleated pants
Bob : Peaches

2008-11-04 10:35:48
71.   Jon Weisman
69 - The only thing I would counter with is that the main reason for all the unpleasantness last September was that Penny simply couldn't pitch. I know someone commented the other day that Penny wasn't going to get any better, but if that's not the case, if the offseason can heal Penny, it's a much different story.

Penny's prinicipal problem in 2008 was that he didn't stop pitching when he was supposed to. The offseason is taking care of that now. Whether that can help him (and in turn his team) in 2009, I don' tknow.

2008-11-04 10:38:18
72.   jasonungar07
In the last three years Penny has 4 less wins than Lowe. Yet Lowe will make 40 million + now and Penny will be dumped and not worth 7.25 million. Timing is everything.
2008-11-04 10:40:07
73.   jasonungar07
I'll be happy if we don't trade for Peavy and he is out of the West..quick someone trade Webb too.
2008-11-04 10:43:25
74.   jasonungar07
I would much rather have Penny and his 7.25 million worth of hope than Pierre or Jones and their 25 million worth of hope.
2008-11-04 10:50:33
75.   CajunDodger
68
This is pure speculation, but that may not be the case. Wolf got 4 million to play for the Dodgers and actually got a higher offer from another team and that was 2 years ago coming off major shoulder surgery, though he did have 3 months to work the kinks out with the Phillies and to prove that he could still throw.

We may have to eat an extra million or so, but it would seem that a guy like Penny would be a decent risk for a team like the Cubs, Astros, or Mets who could use some rotational depth without having to go past a year for it.

2008-11-04 10:50:59
76.   CanuckDodger
71 -- You don't think the PR-sensitive Dodgers care about Penny publicly blaming them for his woes? Honestly, I believe on McCourt's Christmas card list Penny's name is right between the names "Milton Bradley" and "Andruw Jones." But let's put that stuff aside and focus on the "couldn't pitch" issue you mention as the real issue. I am not sure why you are assuming Penny can pitch now, or will be able to in 2009 -- at least effectively. I don't think we ever got a firm diagnosis. I think there is a lot more reason to be skeptical of his arm health going forward than there was Schmidt's arm health at this time two years ago. Will an MLB club wager that Penny's arm will be healthy? Sure, for a one-year $2 million deal, or an incentive-based contract. For $9 million? Not a chance.
2008-11-04 10:51:46
77.   Eric Stephen
Kevin Towers was interviewed on a San Diego radio station this morning, and he said a few things of note:

1) The Padres plan on picking up the $9m option for Brian Giles (there is a $3m buyout)
2) About Khalil: "Nice shortstop but we want people that want to be Padres for a long time"

More info at Gaslamp Ball:

http://tinyurl.com/5unen4

2008-11-04 10:53:42
78.   Eric Stephen
76
Penny is not Mark Prior here. If he's a free agent, his contract will be much closer to the value of that of Carlos Silva than one year, $2m.
2008-11-04 10:56:05
79.   CanuckDodger
74 -- And I would rather have syphilis than smallpox, but I would prefer to not have either.
2008-11-04 10:59:31
80.   El Lay Dave
75 Couldn't the Dodgers "use some rotational depth without having to go past a year for it"? As regfairfield pointed out the other day, the currently under contract starting pitching depth chart is (off the top of my head):

His Royal Thighness
Kuroda
Kershaw
McDonald
Stults
????

76 What are the club's rights to have players under contract undergo diagnostic tests? Shouldn't the Dodgers, in the last part of the season, including playoffs, been having Penny's shoulder, elbow, whatever, tested extensively to get the most possible information on his arm health?

2008-11-04 11:00:12
81.   Jon Weisman
76 - There is no way that Penny is on the same list as Bradley or Jones as far as PR sensitivity. Down here in Los Angeles, his absence barely created a ripple.

I'm not assuming anything about Penny's health - I don't know where you got that idea.

2008-11-04 11:00:57
82.   CajunDodger
76
The real question is not whether he is worth $9 million, but if he is worth $7 million since we are on the hook for $2 million regardless. It is based on that assumption that I think he might be worth the risk for us or some other team. There is very little in the way of short term options on the market. Especially in terms of upside, age, and affordability.
2008-11-04 11:01:37
83.   silverwidow
Gary Bennett is no longer a Dodger.

Source: Tony Jackson.

2008-11-04 11:02:06
84.   CanuckDodger
78 -- No offense, but I think that is just delusional. Silva got a fat contract after a season in which he pitched over 200 innings, had an American League ERA of 4.19, and showed no signs of injury within at least a year, and probably longer than that. Penny's 2008 innings were few, his NL ERA was over 6.00, and he finished the season injured.
2008-11-04 11:03:03
85.   LAT
This is a strange question but many of you are very net and music savvy and I can't find the answer anywhere. Not to mention, you are a very helpful gang. Although far more mainstream than any music discussed here, Mrs. LAT and I are going to Madona on Thursday at DS. The tickets say the show starts at 7:30. I can't find any information about whether there is a warm up band (are they even still called a "warm-up" band?) or whether she is coming out at 7:30. Anyone know where to look or know the answer to this. Anyone been to a concert at DS. Is parking more or less the same as a game? Any tips are appreciated.
2008-11-04 11:05:14
86.   Eric Stephen
84
His 6.00 ERA was partially due to his injury. I think you have a gigantic blind spot for some reason when discussing Brad Penny.
2008-11-04 11:05:33
87.   Jon Weisman
84 - Why are you so sure that Penny won't recover?
2008-11-04 11:06:51
88.   OhioBlues12
86 - ERA is only part of the issue. Penny hasn't been striking out hitters for a couple of seasons now. That is alarming for someone that throws as hard as he is capable of.
2008-11-04 11:07:21
89.   mintxcore
85 Ah! My fiance and her mother are going to that concert and some how I got roped into PICKING THEM UP! I too am interested if anyone has any "event parking" info... has anyone ever tried to "pick up" someone from DS (er... not in THAT way...)? It seems next to impossible to me (like a fish swimming upstream...) but any help would be awesome.
2008-11-04 11:10:52
90.   herchyzer
70 . Bob : Peaches

That's the one I don't understand. A really good peach is the best flavor that exists. Bar none. I had one at a stand in Fillmore once that was like dripping honey.

Although a not REALLY good peach is not really worth eating.

2008-11-04 11:10:59
91.   CanuckDodger
81 -- You said "if the off-season can heal Penny." Not quite assuming good health, but the Dodgers would have to assume the off-season is healing Penny to pick up the option. I would say that THAT would be making an assumption about Penny's health. Without knowing just what Penny's arm problem was, I don't think we can say it is getting better. He may be just as sore in spring training and end up needing surgery, for all we know.
2008-11-04 11:11:21
92.   Eric Stephen
88
Right. I should have said "his poor 2008 performance". If healthy, Penny will be in the 6 K/9 range, rather than the 4.6 he averaged in 2008.
2008-11-04 11:12:08
93.   herchyzer
72 . Penny broke down. Lowe didn't
2008-11-04 11:12:48
94.   bigcpa
Per Gammons today:
Some Dodger officials have spread the word that Martin will either be traded or moved to third base, with a Jason Varitek signing a possibility.
2008-11-04 11:12:50
95.   kinbote
83 Can someone please link to Charlton Heston saying, "Nooooooo!" at the end of "Planet of the Apes"? vr, kinbote.
2008-11-04 11:14:51
96.   Eric Stephen
91
I'm only assuming here, but part of the due diligence before the Dodgers decide whether or not to pick up Penny's option has to be some sort of medical opinion on him.

I'm assuming the Dodgers have taken the steps to find out one way or another the injury risk/recovery Penny faces heading into next year. If they haven't done their homework, the club deserves any scorn regardless of their option decision.

2008-11-04 11:16:22
97.   CajunDodger
86
In addition, we are still not talking about a long term deal. One year at $7 million net cost for a youngish power righthander on the cusp of his free agent season. IF he can get healthy, you have a guy who could be one of the best free agent pitchers in a class that looks a lot more like the Silva/Lohse class than the CC/Dempster/Lowe/Perez class this year.

If he takes care of business and has a 2006ish season, he could be in line for a $40-$60 million dollar payday. It might blow up, but it's better than someone like Tomko who is healthy and cheap for good reason.

2008-11-04 11:16:38
98.   natepurcell
94 that makes no sense
2008-11-04 11:21:33
99.   CanuckDodger
87 -- I am NOT "sure" he won't recover. But if you have a choice of betting $9 million on recovery, or saving $7 million by effectively betting on no recovery, or at least insufficient recovery, it seem obvious to me what the logical course of action is.

And let's not fail to recognize that getting rid of Penny means James McDonald takes his place, so it is not like getting rid of Penny means "Oh, we will have to go with a four-man rotation then." Or are people imaging that Penny coming back means Colletti doesn't try to bring in another starter?

2008-11-04 11:21:59
100.   CajunDodger
94
That has Boras all over it. He has Gammons, Heyman, and Rosenthal on speed dial.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-11-04 11:23:22
101.   natepurcell
I really can't see the Dodgers trading Martin after trading away their catching depth the last couple of years.

This rumor that continues to spread like wildfire really boggles my mind.

2008-11-04 11:24:27
102.   jasonungar07
That rumor has money written all over it.
2008-11-04 11:26:46
103.   bigcpa
I just wish maybe 1-in-3 Dodger rumors was something that sounded smart. And at the risk of sounding like Ken Gurnick, Martin is a two-time All Star catcher and a gold glover at the position. Can someone get Diamond or Tony Jackson on the case?!
2008-11-04 11:27:04
104.   Disabled List
I find it interesting that all the Martin/Varitek rumors are emanating from Boston: The Globe, Gammons, etc.
2008-11-04 11:27:06
105.   silverwidow
Maybe ownership doesn't want to pay 4 years of arbitration.
2008-11-04 11:28:22
106.   natepurcell
105

Then ownership should have thought twice about getting rid of Santana and Navarro and not drafting any catchers who would be MLB ready.

2008-11-04 11:29:24
107.   Jon Weisman
91 - First of all, "if" means "if." It's not an assumption - it's a conditional. I could say "if the world ends tomorrow" - it doesn't mean I think it will happen.

Second of all, let's all agree that as little as the Dodgers may know about Penny's health, they know more than you and me.

Third, given our mutual ignorance, you seem a lot more assumptive about him not getting better than anyone else is about him getting better. Do we have any indication that Penny's arm injury is catastrophic like Schmidt's, that it's something that six months of rehab can't help?

I'm not arguing for or against picking up Penny's option. But if the Dodgers were to decline that option, then resign him for less, would that really be so dumb?

You were Chan Ho Park's biggest booster here last season, if I recall correctly. Park's 2007 was worse than Penny's 2008 - Park's minor-league ERA was about as bad as Penny's major-league ERA. And Park was older. Yet Park showed he wasn't worthless.

I get that you fear the Dodgers will waste money on Penny. Is it safe to say that's all your complaint is? Or do you really have it in for him?

2008-11-04 11:29:48
108.   bigcpa
102 Kim Ng is tweaking her arbitration case as we speak... "If you refer to Exhibit C, you'll observe that Martin's stats are well below average among major league 3rd basemen..."
2008-11-04 11:31:31
109.   CajunDodger
104
Kind of like the Cano for Kemp "rumors" from the NY Times a few weeks ago. I expect a Crisp-for-McDonald rumor any minute...
2008-11-04 11:45:32
110.   TommyLasordid
94. Is Russell Martin gonna be Paul LoDuca Part 2?
2008-11-04 11:46:25
111.   jasonungar07
So I was married 5 min from here, St. Regis Monarch Beach Resort in Dana Point at Salt Creek beach and live 10 minuets from here currently. I ain't got no job, everyday is friday..so..me and the boy (11 months) will go bounce around and see what we can find out. BRB
2008-11-04 11:48:04
112.   dzzrtRatt
The same lame people are working this polling place and true to form I had to show them where I was on the list as they kept missing me.

Now we know what the people who work at Dodger food & beverage counters do during the off-season.

I voted by mail. Ahhhhh.

2008-11-04 11:48:15
113.   Eric Stephen
111
Godspeed, good sir!
2008-11-04 11:50:07
114.   dzzrtRatt
I realize Gammons thinks all teams other than the Red Sox and Yankees exist to take players off the Red Sox and Yankees' hands that they don't want, but how can he report Dodger interest in Jason Veritek with a straight face?

Veritek is worth Juan Pierre, with the Sox assuming all of Pierre's contract and some of Veritek's. At most.

2008-11-04 11:52:47
115.   TommyLasordid
Veritek can be added to McCourt's Bill Mueller, Manny Ramirez and Nomar Garciaparra bobblehead collection.
2008-11-04 11:53:50
116.   LAT
112. Every four years I say I'm going to vote by mail and every four years I don't get around to changiung my registration. But after more than an hour in line this morning, by golly I'm going to do it this year. . . until I don't again.

A man's got to know his limitations.

2008-11-04 11:55:02
117.   Eric Stephen
114
Varitek is a free agent.
2008-11-04 12:05:32
118.   trainwreck
This is why I endorse the banning of the name Jason Varitek.

Vote for no Varitek in 09!

2008-11-04 12:07:24
119.   kinbote
Gurnick's article on Bennett is unintentionally funny. He buries the "problem throwing back to the mound" part in the last sentence. That's like a biography on Nixon mentioning Watergate in a footnote.
2008-11-04 12:15:53
120.   Eric Enders
I'm not sure I support banning the name Jason Varitek, but I certainly endorse banning the person.
2008-11-04 12:18:45
121.   Eric Stephen
I would rather the Dodgers sign Helthcliff Slocumb than the former Boston catcher.
2008-11-04 12:22:50
122.   Eric Stephen
Or Heathcliff.
2008-11-04 12:32:34
123.   Tripon
Jason Veritek and Scott Boras is going to want $10 million per year. No way the Dodgers get anyway near Veritek. Even if you think Russell Martin's going to be expensive, he's likely not going to reach near $10 million even in the last year of his arbitration years.

Seriously, that rumor makes no sense at all.

2008-11-04 12:35:59
124.   Tripon
Or rather, if we miss out on Manny, C.C., and Furcal, and we have to settle for Russell Marting being traded to make room for Jason Veritek, I am going to be a very sad panda.

I would much rather take a chance at Manny for four years vs. Veritek for 2 or 3 years. Manny's plays LF and is always in shape, Veritek's already 37, and will be 38 next year, and as this year shown, his body is breaking down, and he's a catcher. Its not going to be pretty if the Dodgers have to play Veritek 140 games or more.

2008-11-04 12:37:31
125.   TommyLasordid
"Seriously, that rumor makes no sense at all."

Kinda like signing two starting CFs in back to back years and not using either one makes no sense.

2008-11-04 12:52:13
126.   Eric Enders
125 The not using them part made considerable sense...
2008-11-04 13:00:57
127.   bigcpa
The No Manny/No CC version of this offseason makes me very nervous. Then you start hearing Frankie Rodriguez mentioned. Or a lopsided trade for Peavy. I want another offseason like last year (and yes I know Jones was a bust.).
2008-11-04 13:06:52
128.   El Lay Dave
127 Pierre was more of a bust (no arm). Jones was a Rubens.
2008-11-04 13:08:33
129.   Eric Enders
127 A No Manny/No CC offseason, while certainly scary, could still turn out OK. You could sign, say, Burrell, Sheets, Furcal, and maybe even Lowe. That would give us a really good team.
2008-11-04 13:10:36
130.   CajunDodger
128
I just keep imagining the nirvana of having Schmidt and Jones off the payroll after this year...and Holliday will be a free agent...and we will have a vacancy in left assuming Manny gets his $25 million elsewhere.
2008-11-04 13:12:43
131.   Tripon
130 I want Andrew Lambo!

It'll be interesting to see whom Lambo pushes off, Loney, or Ethier, or do the Dodgers save LF for him?

2008-11-04 13:12:44
132.   mwhite06
114 This is a Boston phenomenon. As a Clipper fan, the news coming out of Boston last year drove me crazy, as though the Clippers had some sort of obligation to help Boston win a championship, regardless of what they got back for Cassell.
2008-11-04 13:14:47
133.   Bob Hendley
130 - So the new rallying cry for the Bums should be: "Wait until the year after next!"
2008-11-04 13:15:37
134.   still bevens
Varitek is also a Type A FA I believe.
2008-11-04 13:17:53
135.   Tripon
132 Cassell was waived in time so he could join his buddies in Boston. The Clippers got nothing back.
2008-11-04 13:18:08
136.   CajunDodger
133
Save for Manny, that has been our rallying cry so far...
2008-11-04 13:18:45
137.   Tripon
So, when do the Padres start asking for Lambo in a trade for Peavy?
2008-11-04 13:20:17
138.   mwhite06
135 Right--- that was awesome. But they did agree to a buyout which was at least something I guess. I was actually referring to before the trading deadline when Boston writers basically conceded that they couldn't give the Clippers anything in return, but hey why not let Cassell go compete for a championship.
2008-11-04 13:22:24
139.   silverwidow
137 They will want Lambo as a COMPLEMENTARY piece, not the main part.
2008-11-04 13:23:00
140.   ToyCannon
135
Even worse we bought out his contract. So we basically paid him lots and lots of money so he could leave us and win a ring. Great work if you can get it.
2008-11-04 13:24:10
141.   Tripon
138 Considering how the playoffs played out, those boston writers should have begged the Clippers to hold on to Cassell. It was hilarious that suddenly Rivers couldn't trust Rajon Rondo to play point guard for large stretches of the game, and would rely on Cassell despite shooting 1-10 in a given game.

How they won a championship despite their mostly poor guard play for most of the playoff season, I have no idea.

2008-11-04 13:25:52
142.   mwhite06
141 The sight of Sam Cassell celebrating with his Boston "teammates" after they won a championship was both hilarious/disgusting.
2008-11-04 13:26:07
143.   ToyCannon
Ask Pierce and Garnett, they might be able to give you an answer.
2008-11-04 13:27:35
144.   ToyCannon
142
Not so bad when you consider the time he and Garnett spent together getting rubbed out of the playoffs year after year. He may have not been a big part of the team but he and Garnett certainly had enough history.
2008-11-04 13:35:15
145.   Tripon
144 Garnett and Cassell only went to the playoffs once together, in 2004. The Timberwolves missed the playoffs in 2005, 2006, and then Garnett was traded in 2007.

Cassell was traded after the before the 2005-2006 season.

2008-11-04 14:07:49
146.   trainwreck
Apparently, Al Davis wants Jim Harbaugh to be the next head coach.

But nowadays, Stanford is a better job than the Raiders.

2008-11-04 14:09:39
147.   scareduck
106 - Then ownership should have thought

Fixed.

115 - LOVE your screen name.

2008-11-04 14:10:51
148.   CajunDodger
146
The University of Arkansas-Pine Bluff is a better job...
2008-11-04 14:13:37
149.   JoeyP
What would be a fair trade in a deal to Boston for Russ Martin?

Buccholz, Masterson & Lowell?

2008-11-04 14:16:18
150.   rayg
Bigcpa-Tony Jackson confirmed the Martin rumor over a week ago....
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-11-04 14:18:44
151.   CajunDodger
149
I would take Youk and Lowrie and make them take Jones off our hands.
2008-11-04 14:25:55
152.   regfairfield
151 I don't think they'd agree to that.

I came up with Lowell, Lowrie and Kotteras a couple weeks ago.

2008-11-04 14:26:50
153.   Jon Weisman
150 - Here's the quote Colletti gave to Jackson:

"I don't want to speak for Joe, but I think it would benefit Russell to not play as often behind the plate as he did," Colletti said. "(But) sometimes, that is easier to be said by somebody who isn't making out the lineup card than by the guy making out the lineup card."

That's nothing to indicate a permanent move off catcher for Martin, much less a trade.

2008-11-04 14:26:53
154.   kinbote
149 They'd have to give us Lester.
2008-11-04 14:28:23
155.   Jon Weisman
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_10851213

"Colletti also hinted that he might be on the lookout this winter for a backup catcher who would eliminate the need for Russell Martin to continue to catch as many games (145 in 2007, 149 in 2008) as he has the past two seasons. "

2008-11-04 14:30:07
156.   rayg
Jon-what is your email address? can I email you?
2008-11-04 14:32:18
157.   Jon Weisman
ShiftyJ @ verizon dot net
2008-11-04 14:35:54
158.   Gilberto Reyes
What will happen first? Dodgers announce decision on Brad Penny? Or the announcement of our next president?
2008-11-04 14:37:48
159.   Icaros
AJ Burnett has officially opted out.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8756808?MSNHPHMA

2008-11-04 14:38:32
160.   natepurcell
I came up with Lowell, Lowrie and Kotteras a couple weeks ago.

Uhh...gross?

2008-11-04 14:39:22
161.   rayg
Jon-I just emailed you....may be nothing....but....
2008-11-04 14:40:10
162.   CajunDodger
152
I am pretty sure they wouldn't, but I got pretty tired of the outrageous demands made when we discussed Miggy Cabrera, Manny a couple of years ago, etc. so if they want our most popular and (debatably) best player, then they are going to have to give up quite a bit.

For the purposes of "fair" that trade is clearly not, but I personally want a lopsided trade in our favor if we are to give up such an impossibly rare commodity as a young, controllable, athletic, patient catcher.

2008-11-04 14:47:26
163.   silverwidow
Lester & Lars Anderson for Martin would be a tasty offer.
2008-11-04 14:48:15
164.   CajunDodger
159
This is quite the pitching market...
2008-11-04 15:10:46
165.   silverwidow
Tony Jackson says it's 'almost certain' Penny will be declined.
2008-11-04 15:11:14
166.   Eric Enders
I'd want at least Pedroia for Martin, to which the Red Sox would certainly say no, to which I'd then tell them to take a hike.
2008-11-04 15:14:32
167.   bhsportsguy
153 Diamond had a similar quote last week too.
2008-11-04 15:19:07
168.   bigcpa
153 Right. There's a giant chasm between "not play as often behind the plate" and "will be traded or moved to 3B." I'd like Colletti to clear the air on this one in between his facial and pedicure at the AIG retreat.
2008-11-04 15:19:39
169.   Sac Town Dodger Fan
From the LA Times article today about Boras:
The Boras Corp. employs two psychologists and a conditioning coach who runs the Boras Sports Fitness Institute.

Ummmm, Mr.Boras, please inform Andruw of ALL your services.

2008-11-04 15:35:07
170.   regfairfield
166 I think that's the problem with the whole thing, the guys the Red Sox have that are worth Martin they'd never part with, because, well, you'd have to be a fool to part with a player like that.
2008-11-04 15:36:18
171.   Tripon
If the Red Sox want Martin, then the Dodgers will have to make some outrageous trade demands. Like Pedroida and Youk, and Lester.
2008-11-04 15:37:19
172.   regfairfield
171 That's just greedy. Martin for Pedroia or Lester is probably in the Dodgers favor.
2008-11-04 15:45:01
173.   Tripon
172 Well yeah. But other teams get to make outrageous trade demands for their players, and the Dodgers for the past year has been giving up quality prospects in return for non-quality players.

If the Padres can demand 5 players for Peavy, then the Dodgers can also ask for the moon for a top-five catcher.

2008-11-04 15:49:52
174.   Tripon
Adam Dunn is an imperfect fit for Boston's needs, and so are many others in the current class of free agents. If the Red Sox were to sign Teixeira, they would have a glut of slugger/corner guys, with Kevin Youkilis, Lowell, Ortiz and Teixeira; if the Red Sox were to sign Teixeira, Boston might move Youkilis to left field, Jason Bay to right and J.D. Drew to center, with Jacoby Ellsbury working into the rotation in the way that Coco Crisp did in 2008, through injury and planned rest. -Olney

This makes no sense. Just move Youk to 3rd, and force Lowell to the bench if you really want Texierea.

2008-11-04 15:56:15
175.   Tripon
http://tinyurl.com/6lsety

U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan ordered Marian Hinnant, identified as juror No. 4, to return to court to explain why she disappeared during jury deliberations. Hinnant, 52, brought a stack of handwritten notes with her to the court Monday along with public defender A.J. Kramer, and told the judge that her father hadn't died and she was at the Breeders' Cup in Arcadia, Calif.

2008-11-04 15:59:13
176.   Louis in SF
174

While you are correct in the pure world of stats and what makes the best baseball sense, the reason why I think Lowell is not moved to the bench is the size of his contract.

2008-11-04 16:01:47
177.   El Lay Dave
174 I still think Teixeira is going to end up a Yankee. That fit seems too good for either side to pass up. The Yanks save $17M by declining a declining Giambi, Tex can be their 1B for six years, NY can afford the contract for a top-notch Boras client, Yanks need a bat (or two) to replace Giambi and Abreu and offset the declines of Matsui, Posada.
2008-11-04 16:07:37
178.   regfairfield
174 Lowell is a better player than Ellsbury right now.
2008-11-04 16:16:32
179.   CajunDodger
I don't feel like posting the link out of protest of Boras' pumpkin sized ego, but he is suggesting that Varitek should get a deal similar to Posada's (4/$52 mil).
2008-11-04 16:37:52
180.   Tripon
Hope Veritek loves playing in Japan next year.
2008-11-04 16:38:02
181.   Eric Stephen
Eric Stephen-approved announcer Matt Vasgersian, discussed in these parts today, has been hired as the lead studio host for the MLB network.

Besides the Padres, he will also be leaving Fox, so no more "clock blocking" references.

http://tinyurl.com/67qym5

2008-11-04 16:38:33
182.   Eric Stephen
V-a-r-i-t-e-k
2008-11-04 16:56:21
183.   trainwreck
Well Raiders finally did something right.

We are waiving Deangelo Hall. Let the door hit you on the backside Deangelo.

2008-11-04 17:50:02
184.   Tripon
183 Raiders source says that Javon Walker is next.
2008-11-04 18:07:43
185.   LogikReader
Just got back from voting!

Did any of you house your ballots in those cardboard sleeves? Doesn't it remind you of those RCA Selectavision Videodiscs?

Ballot: http://www.aspenpitkin.com/depts/5/images/accuvote.jpg

Videodisc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhO4cweRnfE

2008-11-04 18:11:16
186.   Duranimal
Furcal

I think we're going to be shocked at what other teams offer Furcal. Unless he really likes LA, I don't see him re-signing with us.

2008-11-04 18:13:49
187.   Bob Timmermann
181
Matt Vasgersian, USC Frat Boy as the face of the MLB Network

How do you do?

2008-11-04 18:33:55
188.   Eric Stephen
187
It's all part of the master plan, Bob. Muwuhahahahahaha.
2008-11-04 18:43:33
189.   68elcamino427
169
That is hilarious!
Hello Mr. Boras?
It's only a $36,000,000.00 contract for two years right? Not to mention your credibility.
Oh - I see here in the Times today that you're expecting to make 10% in commisions off of $400,000,000.00 in player contract signings this off season.
So sorry to bother you Mr. Boras.
2008-11-04 19:01:51
190.   oshea2002
I am shocked that Al had 10 consecutive seconds of lucidity and was able to actually cut Hall. Hopefully PFT is right and Walker and Kelly are next. What a waste.

186 - I'm starting to feel that way too, but hopefully the fact that Joe likes him so much means the Dodgers will do whatever it takes to bring him back.

2008-11-04 20:05:58
191.   Tripon
Only one offer appears to have surfaced, and Peavy rejected that trade, which would have sent him to an American League team with a small ballpark.

Fenway?

Also this made me laugh. Talk about your putdowns.

"Jake grew up dreaming of playing in pinstripes, but he has a strong preference to stay in the National League," Axelrod said. "He's a good hitter -– he was the most potent part of the Padres' offense at times this year -– and he knows the hitters in the National League. But, Jake's strongest preference is to not be traded."

2008-11-04 20:08:03
192.   LogikReader
We appear to have our own Amy G now on LA Kings telecasts. I don't know how to react.
2008-11-04 20:14:14
193.   Tripon
192 Is she cute? Attractive?

I hate sideline reporters on principal, but I'm willing to start watching Kings games for cute women.

2008-11-04 20:23:18
194.   LogikReader
193

Very.

The good thing is, I think they still have Patrick O'Neal for the regular reports, locker room interviews, etc.

2008-11-04 20:23:58
195.   trainwreck
192
You poor people. Now you have to deal with her.
2008-11-04 20:44:16
196.   Tripon
http://www.latimes.com/

Propositions Precincts reporting: 6.0 %

* 1A: High-speed rail Yes 48.4% No 51.6%
* 4: Abortion notification Yes 49.8% No 50.2%
* 8: Gay marriage ban Yes 54.4% No 45.6%

2008-11-04 20:44:49
197.   Tripon
Er, disregard that, I posted that in the wrong place. Jon, please delete it if you want to.
2008-11-04 21:04:36
198.   Tripon
When asked if Russell Martin was available, Dodgers GM Ned Colletti said "No."

THANK YOU KEITH LAW.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=law_keith

2008-11-04 21:24:48
199.   jasonungar07
Thank You Ned Coletti!
2008-11-05 04:49:30
200.   Ken Noe
Times confirms: Reports stating that the Dodgers are looking to trade catcher Russell Martin or move him to third base are untrue, Colletti said." Smart of Ned to end this speculation quickly.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-11-05 06:15:44
201.   Ken Noe
Furcal wants four years, but McCourt is too wary of his back to say yes. Hence, Furcal will go shopping.

http://tinyurl.com/54wny2

2008-11-05 07:10:58
202.   D4P
201
Asking for a longer contract from the Dodgers than the one they previously gave him, after he spent 2 of the 3 years injured? I suppose he wants a big raise, too.

These people have no shame.

2008-11-05 07:12:56
203.   D4P
The Dodgers must decide by today whether to pick up Brad Penny's $9.25-million option for 2009

I'm guessing they won't pick it up, though I suppose that depends in large part upon their impression of what the alternatives will be.

2008-11-05 08:25:47
204.   Jon Weisman
NPUT

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