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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Tickets, Please?
2008-11-06 08:26
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

For those of you who usually make it to Dodger Stadium, how much do you think the struggling economy will affect your spending plans on Dodger tickets next season, if at all?

Comments (301)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-11-06 08:34:37
1.   KG16
i doubt it will affect me much. might not get diamond club seats (not that I could afford them before), but if i can make it to the stadium, i'll go
2008-11-06 08:40:44
2.   CajunDodger
We will just cut down on the concessions, but I doubt my family will go less than the 10-15 games we normally attend.
2008-11-06 08:43:08
3.   Eric Stephen
I might reduce the number of trips I take to DS. This year I went to 5 of the 9 games at Petco, so maybe I make up for it by going to all 9 next year.
2008-11-06 08:43:49
4.   Bob Timmermann
I'll go as often as I can mooch tickets off of people.
2008-11-06 08:44:56
5.   Tripon
2 You should make dinner plans before the game! Dim Sum should be in your future.
2008-11-06 08:46:23
6.   underdog
Whoa, who would've thought the Nationals would be in on the Teixeira sweepstakes?

According to ESPN's Buster Olney, the Nationals are preparing to make a significant offer to Mark Teixeira. Olney believes the Angels will make an offer in the $100-120MM range, but that offer will expire soon. -- {insert the "it's Buster Olney" caveat here.}

2008-11-06 08:47:55
7.   GoBears
Won't affect me. I only go to a few games, and don't go for premium seats in any case. The factor that keeps me from going to more games these days is, sadly, the crowd. We've talked about this before, but I find the Dodger Stadium experience to be less and less fun, as the obnoxious behavior becomes more and more prevalent. The ushers do nothing. Security does nothing unless an actual physical confrontation breaks out.

Last time I was there, I was sitting with two friends, just talking about baseball, whilst the mid-20s couple in front of us spent most of the game rounding 2nd base. Then, around the 7th inning, the guys stands up and starts yelling at us for talking too much - that we were ruining the game for him! Meanwhile, two drunk guys 20 feet away were swearing a blue streak at a young female usher. Anyone who asked them to stop got the same treatment. I wanted to be at home, listening to Vin Scully.

Sorry - that wasn't the point of the thread. No more ranting.

2008-11-06 08:48:58
8.   Kevin Lewis
Won't affect me...we get the 12 pack of Top Deck tickets for $48.00. I bring my own food and drink, and I park outside.
2008-11-06 08:54:02
9.   JoeyP
The article in the last thread mentioned Penny being a type B free agent.

How would the Dodgers get any compensation though?

He cant still be offered arbitration could he?

2008-11-06 08:56:42
10.   Daniel Zappala
I will keep up my average of 0.5 games per season -- once every other year when I'm in town during the season.
2008-11-06 08:56:47
11.   Eric Stephen
9
He can still be offered arbitration, but there's no way the will offer it to him.
2008-11-06 08:57:39
12.   fanerman
It won't affect me. I go to 1 or 2 games a year if I'm lucky and I consider it a treat, so I don't mind buying myself expensive concessions.
2008-11-06 08:57:46
13.   Tripon
9 Some team signs Penny before Dec. or whenever the cutoff date for declaring arbitration offers is. Since Penny's only a type-B, some team might be inclined to do a quick deal for his services.
2008-11-06 08:58:59
14.   DBrim
10 - Same.

I may go to New York to see them at Citi Field. Depends on class schedule and work and such.

2008-11-06 09:03:56
15.   scareduck
The Dodgers' parking situation (and my ownership of Angels season tickets) has already had as much effect on my going to Dodgers games as it will. So I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference.
2008-11-06 09:05:37
16.   Eric Stephen
13
That's a good point. I am now rooting for Penny to sign quickly, before the December 1 deadline to offer arbitration.
2008-11-06 09:06:35
17.   ToyCannon
I don't expect it to me effect me in 2009 since I've already paid for 2009. It is possible I would not reup in 2010 if my partner whose business is dependent on the economy doesn't want to stay in.

It has effected my Laker tickets as I lost one partner due to the insurance shenanigans. The economy has effected the price I get for the Laker games. So far I'm selling games at a loss which is quite unusual when they are playing great.

2008-11-06 09:10:52
18.   Eric Stephen
I just looked back, and I actually only went to 5 regular season games at Dodger Stadium (4 separate trips). It just seemed like a lot more for some reason. That was still more than 2006 & 2007 combined, when I went to 3 total DS games.

I haven't planned it yet, but I would like to see the Dodgers in at least two non-SoCal road series next year. SF would be cool since I have friends up there I could stay with. The June 12-14 series in Texas looks like an intriguing weekend.

2008-11-06 09:10:58
19.   delias man
I will renew my season seats for 2009. The clientele in the stadium is more likely to make me go down to a half season in 2010 than the money.
2008-11-06 09:14:45
20.   Eric Stephen
From the Yahoo article recapping yesterday at the GM meetings:

GMs discussed, but did not vote on, alternatives to coin flips for deciding the site of tiebreaker games. Best record is a method under consideration

I'm sure they meant best record head to head or something like that, but I just thought those two sentences looked funny next to one another. We will decide between two teams with the same record based on which team had the best record. :)

2008-11-06 09:19:07
21.   Eric Stephen
Boras is on...gulp...The Herd right now.
2008-11-06 09:21:23
22.   Eric Stephen
Boras estimates that Manny generated an extra $5-6 million per month for the Dodgers, before the postseason.
2008-11-06 09:24:55
23.   TellMeTheScoreRickMonday
7 I don't get it, the couple in front of you spent most of the game rounding second base?

Do you sit behind Jeff Kent and/or Eric Karros?

2008-11-06 09:27:13
24.   Tripon
23 The couple was necking each other.
2008-11-06 09:29:05
25.   regfairfield
22 Between tickets, parking, concessions and do-rags I'd believe it.

24 Way more than that if he was headed for third.

2008-11-06 09:32:15
26.   Bob Timmermann
20
Alternatives to coin flips:
1) Rock, paper, scissors
2) Odds and evens
3) Dice
4) Duels between GMs.
5) Jousts
2008-11-06 09:33:33
27.   Daniel Zappala
18 I do hope to see the Dodgers play in Colorado next year.
2008-11-06 09:35:06
28.   Daniel Zappala
26 You forgot golf tournaments.
2008-11-06 09:36:26
29.   Bob Timmermann
26
That would only be necessary if the coin flips were held at neutral sites.
2008-11-06 09:37:41
30.   PalmdaleSteve1
Dodgers on HD TV is not so bad, and my beer is cheaper and cooler than Parking Lot Franks.

But a road trip to Spring Training, for the first year in Arizona...sign my up.

ROAD TRIP!

2008-11-06 09:44:03
31.   Harold M Johnson
We got so excited during the post-season run that we re-upped our season tickets (which are insanely expensive) for 2 more years. We split the tickets with another group of 2, our group is 4. It used to be 5 but one guy has dropped out, so I guess I have been affected.
2008-11-06 09:46:07
32.   Daniel Zappala
I forgot that the Dodgers will now be only 9 1/2 hours away during spring training. That will be tempting.
2008-11-06 09:54:11
33.   Ken Noe
It'll take another conference to get me out to LA, and none are forthcoming in 2009. But I'll go up to Atlanta when the LADs hit town.
2008-11-06 09:56:43
34.   PalmdaleSteve1
32

Yes and assuming Andruw Jones is still with the team, want to get the Booing started off early in the season.

One of Andruw's pals from Atlanta was on XM BBTM today echoing Jabba the Hut's complaints that he "really wasn't given a chance"....Blah! Overpaid overweight tub of goo.

2008-11-06 10:00:13
35.   DaDoughboy
32.
Depending on when you leave the So Cal area, we usually make it to Phoenix in about 7 hours..although we may not go this year expressly because the Dodgers are there. It's crowded enough as is...may wait a year or 2 before we head out to Az again.

4.
Exactly. Make friends with as many season ticket holders as possible. I find it's good to work in a business where wholesalers/sales reps offer tickets (legal bribery) for generating business for them. Sell whichever company generates the best ticket perks. That's my 'ticket plan' this year..

2008-11-06 10:01:32
36.   berkowit28
34 Only some 205 chances or so... How many more did he deserve?
2008-11-06 10:03:29
37.   berkowit28
I only make it down from Santa Barbara a couple times a season, and that won't change, unless I can manage it a couple more times. But I guess Jon's question really should be answered only by LA residents.
2008-11-06 10:04:55
38.   Jon Weisman
John Donovan's potential free-agent bargains:

http://tinyurl.com/5myp95

1.) Odalis Perez.

2008-11-06 10:06:16
39.   PalmdaleSteve1
36

I wonder where I can get one of those old time western dinner triangle thingamajiggers.

Assuming Andruw shows up this year in full Jabba the Hutt trim, every time he steps to the plate start ringing the dinner triangle.

Is that too cruel? Knowing the Dodgers, I'd get 86'd for that one, LA is not Philly after all.

2008-11-06 10:06:53
40.   Kevin Lewis
I hope to make it to SD for the 4th or 5th of July game. I have always wanted to see a game down there.
2008-11-06 10:07:33
41.   Eric Stephen
40
DT South Event!
2008-11-06 10:09:38
42.   Bob Timmermann
39
I think you can get those triangles at Home Depot.
2008-11-06 10:10:25
43.   OhioBlues12
Does anyone know if Eric Chavez is having a successful rehab? I only wonder because he and Jones have about the same value right now, so a trade swapping these two and their big contracts could be a benefit to both teams.
2008-11-06 10:14:23
44.   Kevin Lewis
40

Wiffle ball before the game :)

2008-11-06 10:17:19
45.   Jon Weisman
"Good gosh almighty"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHkABO0VwCg

Via http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/11/dodgers-lakers.html

2008-11-06 10:17:25
46.   kinbote
39 Just make sure the sound can't be confused with the bell that rings when a car pulls up to a drive-thru bank teller. Oh wait . . .
2008-11-06 10:19:40
47.   Louis in SF
43

While I have not heard any news on Chavez rehab, the problem he has had is the injuries have come in bunches and he will be coming off back surgery. Something also tells me that he has two years left, not one like Jones.

2008-11-06 10:19:50
48.   Bob Timmermann
Stop yelling at your kids and use one of these!

Or stop yelling at Andruw Jones.

http://www.mountainstreamforge.com/DinnerBells.htm

2008-11-06 10:20:27
49.   Eric Stephen
The Dodgers averaged roughly 44,500 fans in the 56 home dates before the arrival of Manny.

In the 25 A.M. home dates, the Dodgers averaged approximately 49,400 fans.

Let's round up and say Manny was responsible for 5,000 extra seats sold per game.

Let's call the average ticket price $30 (actual in 2008 was $29.66, according to http://tinyurl.com/6fobml), and assume that the people in every single extra seat came in their own car and parked in the parking lot for $15.

That's $45 per extra person, so with 5,000 people that's an extra $225,000 per game, or $5.625m for the entire Manny era (25 home games). This figure is pure profit, as no additional costs are needed to produce these seats or parking spots.

If we factor in concessions and memorabilia, we have to also factor in the cost of those goods. I doubt this effect was much more than $1-2m total in profit in the 2 months Manny was here.

2008-11-06 10:20:40
50.   PalmdaleSteve1
46

Or the sound of Scott Boris car driving up to the Winter meeting sounding like an ice cream truck loaded with his clients.

Random thought...Nominated for the most annoying ice cream truck song...."It's a small world".

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-11-06 10:24:29
51.   Daniel Zappala
45 That is just about one of the most amazing and also funniest things I've seen.
2008-11-06 10:24:40
52.   ToyCannon
39
I got one of them from an old time blacksmith. Not that I'd let you borrow it to make fun of Jones.

43
From Rotowire:
"Chavez (shoulder) said he is making "huge progress" in his rehab and expects to be 100 percent by December, the San Francisco Chronicle reports. Chavez appeared in 23 games in 2008 for the A's due to injuries and has just played in 113 games over the past two years. He struggled in his abbreviated season, batting just .245 and slugging .393. He should be ready when spring training opens, but he slides down the draft board with his health being a serious question from here on."

2008-11-06 10:25:50
53.   Daniel Zappala
We actually used to have a triangle we rang for dinner in our house, but then it broke.
2008-11-06 10:26:13
54.   Eric Stephen
45
That link also asks for votes for the top 10 LA Lakers of all time. My top ten:

1) Magic
2) West
3) Kareem
4) Baylor
5) Shaq
6) Kobe
7) Worthy
8) Wilt
9) Goodrich
10) Wilkes

2008-11-06 10:29:38
55.   ToyCannon
49
You are not taking into account how many season ticket holders started going to games after Manny came to town. I'd roughly add another 5,000 per game to that number based on the empty seats in the season ticket area I was seeing in July compared to Aug/Sept. Then again we had the pennant race which we may or may not have been in without Manny which also added season ticket butts to the games.

Now those tickets were already paid for but you need to account for the concessions and any parking revenue if they did not have season parking. Plus if you figure Manny was responsible for us making the playoffs the Dodgers were able to hold onto the playoff money and earn some nice interest for the postseason payments.

2008-11-06 10:30:05
56.   MollyKnight
I wonder how many times Scott Boras has had water dumped on his head in his lifetime.
2008-11-06 10:30:23
57.   ToyCannon
53
We used it for our out door cats for feeding time.
2008-11-06 10:35:05
58.   arborial
48 whats the difference between "classic" and "traditional" triangles?
2008-11-06 10:36:33
59.   ToyCannon
45
OMG was Hawk Harrelson calling that game for East Plano? That is being sent to everyone I know. Nice video for a high school game, they do take it serious out there.
2008-11-06 10:37:57
60.   jujibee
I've been sorting through all these rumors lately. I know a lot has been said about who is or isn't untouchable, but I sat back and tough about a nice situation just based of the rumors.

Sign Tex to a 7 year 150ish Mil deal
trade Martin to the Sox for Bucholz, Masterson and a low level prospect (I know the Sox might balk at both Bucholz and Masterson, so maybe 1 of them plus another promising prospect)
In 2 trades: Packagesome sort of Loney, Masterson/Bucholz, Abreau, and a couple low level prospects for Teagarden and Beltre.
sign Furcal

Furcal
Ethier
Kemp
Tex
Beltre
Dewitt
Teagarden
Pierre/Jones
Pitcher

Then sign an Oliver Perez/Derek Lowe type veteran to fill in the rotation with Kuroda, Bills, Kershaw, and Mcdonald.

Thoughts?

2008-11-06 10:39:07
61.   jujibee
60. thought not tough??? edited the wrong word
2008-11-06 10:41:34
62.   Jon Weisman
For Canuck (and others):

Tony Jackson's latest on Penny:

http://www.dailynews.com/ci_10911840?source=rss

Still, it was a perceived lack of professionalism on Penny's part that probably sealed his fate more than any injury. Several sources said during the season that Penny routinely blew off the customary pitchers' meeting before the first game of every series, and there were times when Penny's myriad outside interests - he owned all or part of several racehorses and openly dated at least two well-known actresses during his time with the Dodgers - appeared to take precedence over baseball.

The last straw might have come at the end of this season, when Penny, who was unable to pitch because of his injury, didn't stick around for the Dodgers' playoff run. He had been granted permission to leave, but it was because he had requested such permission that reportedly didn't sit well with some club officials, including Colletti and manager Joe Torre.

2008-11-06 10:42:34
63.   Eric Stephen
60
If you're talking about Taylor Teagarden, he's on Texas. Beltre is on Seattle.
2008-11-06 10:43:13
64.   Bob Timmermann
45
From the Houston Chronicle at the time of that video:
John Tyler's amazing 48-44 victory over Plano East and Austin Westlake's 80-42 basketball-like score with San Antonio Clark are the most talked-about games from the 1994 football playoffs.

Trailing 41-17 with 3:03 to play, Plano East scored 27 unanswered points, successfully recovered three consecutive onside kickoffs and went in front 44-41 with 26 seconds left on the Texas Stadium clock.

But what looked like the greatest comeback in Texas high school football history was wiped out on a game-ending 97-yard kickoff return for a touchdown by John Tyler's Roderick Dunn.

The 13-0 Lions won and Plano East exited the playoffs with a 12-1 record, but the losers certainly did not protest the last few minutes of such a great game as West Brook did in a 31-28 loss to Katy.

From the John Tyler-Plano East game came these interesting facts and figures:

Fifty-one points were scored in the fourth quarter.

Forty-eight points were scored in the final 4:24.

Thirty-four points were scored in the final 2:33.

John Tyler ran no offensive plays in the last five minutes.

One of the comeback touchdowns for Plano East came on fourth down.

The Houston Chronicle story about the game makes it sound less interesting:

IRVING -- Roderick Dunn returned a kickoff 97 yards for a touchdown with 11 seconds to play Saturday night, lifting Tyler John Tyler to a wild 48-44 Class 5A Division II playoff win over Plano East that featured seven touchdowns in the final five minutes.

John Tyler (13-0) will play Richardson Lake Highlands in a Division II quarterfinal next weekend. Plano East finishes 12-1.

The Lions built a 41-17 lead with fumble returns of 90 yards by Marc Broyles and 35 yards by David Warren, but Plano East recovered three straight onside kicks to get back in the game at Texas Stadium.

Quarterback Jeff Whitley had touchdown passes of 22 yards to Terrence Green, four and six yards to Jonathan Braddick and 22 yards to Robert Woods. The pass to Woods coming with 18 seconds left for a 44-42 Plano East lead.

But the Wildcats kicked deep to Anderson, who took it back all the way to give John Tyler the lead for good. It was the fifth touchdown scored in the game's final 2:36.

Morris Anderson intercepted a Plano East pass as time expired to seal the victory.

Actually, Plano East lead 44-41 and was kicking deep to force John Tyler to go for a touchdown. If the game had been tied, there would have been no overtime and Plano East would have prevailed under whatever screwball tiebreaker was being used in Texas football at the time.

The amazing about this game was that Tim Riggans was playing for Dillon High back then.

2008-11-06 10:45:39
65.   jujibee
63. I stated: in 2 trades package some sort of...

I meant 1 trade with Seatle and another with Texas. not the same trade.

2008-11-06 10:49:46
66.   jasonungar07
Will only go with who I saw.. top 5 in terms of impact

1. Magic
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Kareem
5. Worthy

2008-11-06 10:50:22
67.   rayg
Jujibee-any Dodgers starting lineup with Pierre or Jones is worse than in 2008.
Manny>Tex
Martin> Teagarden
But I do like the idea of trading for Beltre....would do everything in my power to get him back if I were Ned.
2008-11-06 10:53:53
68.   PalmdaleSteve1
62

Chances of Big Brad appearing in a Pads Uniform next year with Pevie heading into the sunset?

Big Brad is a horse when he's well, and San Diego has some real nice weather and even nicer looking arm candy.

Call it $6 Million for a one year deal, by the way who's Brad's agent?

2008-11-06 10:56:06
69.   Daniel Zappala
66 Likewise

1. Magic
2. Kareem
3. Kobe
4. Shaq
5. Worthy
6. Cooper

2008-11-06 10:56:32
70.   SG6
My attendance plans based on:

1 - competitive team
2 - fun to watch team (manny's impact)
3 - traffic/hassle on any given night
4 - crowd behavior
5 - economy (it hasn't been cheap for a while)

And if money would be a factor, I would just move up in the stadium. And 1 or 2 could swap positions, but I'm assuming that 2 assumes 1.

2008-11-06 10:56:51
71.   ToyCannon
62
Sources Sources Sources, these CYA leaks are so unprofessional. If I was Penny's agent I'd be storming the castle. Doesn't matter if they are true or not, burning bridges to make your organization look good is just not the right way to play the PR game where ego's are as fragile as a Condors egg after ingesting DDT.
2008-11-06 11:00:35
72.   D4P
Penny routinely blew off the customary pitchers' meeting before the first game of every series, and there were times when Penny's myriad outside interests - he owned all or part of several racehorses and openly dated at least two well-known actresses during his time with the Dodgers - appeared to take precedence over baseball.

Ah, the joys of guaranteed contracts.

2008-11-06 11:03:17
73.   bigcpa
Sounds to me like Penny was just being Penny and didn't want his option picked up anyway.
2008-11-06 11:04:50
74.   ToyCannon
Sadly I saw West, Elgin, Wilt, and Goodrich which makes it harder. Rings trump careers even if I'd much rather watch West play then Kobe.
1. Magic
2. Kareem
3. Shaq
4. Kobe
5. West
6. Elgin
7. Worthy
8. Goodrich
9. Wilt
10. Wilkes
2008-11-06 11:07:05
75.   bhsportsguy
71 I am going to assume (which is dangerous) that these comments came after Tony Jackson, et. al., asked their sources why didn't the Dodgers pick up Penny's option.

I suppose the most correct (and in today's litigous society) response would have been to say something like the Dodgers just wanted to go a different direction. But a good reporter would still keep asking because if Penny is healthy, his salary is probably at or slightly below market.

At that point, do you stay on message? The fact that Penny wasn't around in the playoffs was well known.

Penny admitted to the press in September that he pitched hurt because he was at least as concerned about his next contract than how his performance would affect the team.

Brad Penny's agent has no standing to complain unless he plans to never to do business with the Dodgers in his career.

2008-11-06 11:07:47
76.   ToyCannon
62
How does that happen twice? Does management have so little control of the players that they can dis meetings that impact the game without anyone getting in their face? Where was Bowa? Honeycut? Ned?
2008-11-06 11:12:55
77.   CanuckDodger
71 -- The article said "Several sources said during the season..." In other words, Jackson relayed comments that were old news to him, so there is no indication that anybody in the organization is bad-mouthing Penny now, when Penny is on his way out the door. What is interesting to me is that Jackson never bothered reporting any of these sources' comments BEFORE, right after they were made. To me, this possibly ties in with a question that has been asked here before: "Why do we hear things about the Dodgers from national baseball writers, or New York newspaper writers, that we don't hear from Dodger beat reporters?" Is it that the beat reporters' jobs depend on their "access," so they don't publicize information that is likely to make Dodger VIP's angry with them?
2008-11-06 11:13:58
78.   ToyCannon
75
Yes you stay on message. Brad Penny gave us four years and at this point we felt we could do better with other external or internal options then we could with Brad. Just because a reporter asks questions does not mean they have to be answered unless they have their own agenda. Someone who works for the Dodgers runs their mouth much more then is required. While fans may appreciate honesty about why a transaction took place you can bet the players don't appreciate it if it puts them in a bad light.

Penny's agent has plenty to complain about because those kind of back door comments could effect his future earning potential which in turn impacts the agents earning potential.

2008-11-06 11:19:49
79.   OhioBlues12
78 - I think Colletti's message was right on. They hadn't seen a large enough scope of work during the season to feel comfortable bringing him back. These leaked comments from unnamed sources is as good as heresay and his agent really has no grounds to be angry over heresay.
2008-11-06 11:20:25
80.   jasonungar07
Is it that the beat reporters' jobs depend on their "access," so they don't publicize information that is likely to make Dodger VIP's angry with them?

yes.

2008-11-06 11:26:15
81.   Eric Stephen
74
Byron Scott is probably my #11.
2008-11-06 11:28:57
82.   Jacob L
Not because of the economy per se, but I already do attend fewer Dodger games than I'm used to because of cost. I don't expect to make any further adjustments in the coming season. I cant' blame the Dodgers for making a buck where they can, but its not going to be my buck (or at least not so much of my buck).

I might be willing to revisit my cost/benefit analysis if they didn't lose every single game I attend.

2008-11-06 11:30:17
83.   Eric Stephen
Just a note: Penny's agent is Greg Genske, who also happens to be the agent of CC Sabathia.
2008-11-06 11:33:39
84.   ToyCannon
PreSeason Season Tickets are ready to be purchased.
http://mlb.mlb.com/la/spring_training/season_tickets.jsp

79
Sure, no one ever gets angry over heresay being reported by the beat writer.

2008-11-06 11:35:06
85.   Bob Timmermann
Is heresay something like "I've heard someone tell me that ToyCannon says that God sucks!"
2008-11-06 11:35:32
86.   bhsportsguy
77 Sometimes players do talk to national or out-of-town writers that they have previous relationships with like early in the year when Pierre gave an interview to Tracy Ringolsby in the Denver Post.

I do think that a beat reporter is in a difficult situation at times because they are often told things off-the-record or they themselves may not feel that story is relevant at that time.

How management felt about Penny's horse ownership or his personal relationships (which I think was cheap shot by the Dodger sources) was probably not relevant during the season.

However, Penny missing meetings would have been a relevant story.

2008-11-06 11:35:40
87.   ToyCannon
81
Norm Nixon might be mine. At that point I'd have to review rosters to really remember who I loved watching play.
2008-11-06 11:40:26
88.   Eric Stephen
87
How controversial was the Nixon trade at the time? I would imagine Laker fans were not too happy about receiving some draft pick (Scott) for fan favorite Nixon.
2008-11-06 11:40:36
89.   blue22
Derek Fisher anyone? I might have him and Coop-a-loop fight it out over a spot on my list.
2008-11-06 11:41:06
90.   delias man
I also forgot to mention that 110N carpool lane turning into a toll road will also impact my return to the stadium regularly in 2010.
2008-11-06 11:41:36
91.   OhioBlues12
84 - It is not actionable though. He can't hold a grudge and try to take it out on the Dodgers. Well, he could but it probably wouldn't be wise. Now if Colletti had said that they weren't bring Penny back because of a lack of effort on his part this season, that is a different story. It comes directly from Colletti and attacks Penny's commitment.
2008-11-06 11:41:55
92.   bhsportsguy
87 1. Magic
2a- 2b. Jerry West & Elgin Baylor
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5a - 5b. Kobe Bryant & Shaquelle O'Neal
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. James Worthy
9. Michael Cooper
10. Gail Goodrich
2008-11-06 11:42:17
93.   ToyCannon
86
Oh I think it is very relevant but should also be handled in house. Every player in the clubhouse has some dirty laundry that could be leaked if you wanted to make them look bad.

We get upset when the hearsay is directed at Martin or Kemp but when it is directed at a player who let us down this year we make excuses about why it is okay.

If Tony Jackson's source is another player that is a different story, but if it comes from Dodger management I just find it in bad taste but evidently I'm over reacting.

2008-11-06 11:43:43
94.   ToyCannon
88
I was livid, in Magic's auto the whole team was livid. They gave him the quiet treatment for all of preseason as I recall.
2008-11-06 11:45:54
95.   ToyCannon
The plethora of great Lakers is just unbelievable. That was one of the reasons they had to leave the forum, they need more rafter space for all the banners and jerseys that they knew they'd be winning and retiring:)
2008-11-06 11:47:10
96.   Paul Scott
It will have no effect on me. I was a Season ticket holder through 2005 (in the blue seats just above the Dodger Dugout - lot's of people complained about them and I understand they changed in 2006, but I really liked them). As of October 2005, I have not given McCourt a dime (other than the $500 deposit he still has). The reason, of course, was DePodesta's firing and replacement by an idiot. That idiot was re-upped and so I will once again be enjoying the Dodgers from my computer.
2008-11-06 11:48:49
97.   Eric Stephen
96
You didn't get your $500 deposit back?
2008-11-06 11:51:05
98.   Eric Stephen
On Byron Scott's Wikipedia page, the picture of him is just wrong. It's from his year in Greece, with Panathinaikos, but the damn jersey has a clover leaf on it and has green trim. It's way too Celticky for my tastes.
2008-11-06 11:54:28
99.   bhsportsguy
92 Comments about rankings.

Magic Johnson (and his teammates) - the reason that the Lakers are the team of LA.

West and Baylor brought the NBA to Los Angeles and created the best rivalry in the NBA (though they never won a championship).

Abdul-Jabbar kept the Lakers relevant in the 70's and then teamed up with Magic to win 5 titles. He and Magic each were awarded 3 MVPs as a Laker.

I put Kobe and Shaq together because I don't see them winning their titles without each other, ultimately Kobe may finish higher since he is on path to set many LA Laker career records if he finishes his career in LA.

Wilt was in his defensive mode of his career but while he was a Laker, they went to 4 NBA Finals.

I loved watching Worthy go against McHale.

Cooper made defense cool.

Goodrich, Scott or Nixon, I could go with any of them.

2008-11-06 11:55:00
100.   ToyCannon
96
When did the idiot re-up? I thought next year was the last year of his contract. Did I miss something this big?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-11-06 11:55:54
101.   bhsportsguy
97 No, season tix deposits are non-refundable.
2008-11-06 11:56:48
102.   ToyCannon
99
I'm hope Baylor got a ring in 1971 even though he retired. He did play a few games before retiring.
2008-11-06 11:56:53
103.   Jon Weisman
88 - It was very hard to take at the time. I loved Nixon.
2008-11-06 11:57:16
104.   Travis08
64 If the game had been tied, there would have been no overtime and Plano East would have prevailed under whatever screwball tiebreaker was being used in Texas football at the time.

Before 1996 (when Texas approved overtime for high school football), the tiebreakers for playoff tie games were:

1) Most times team crossed the opposition 20-yard line;
2) Most first downs;
3) Most total yardage.

2008-11-06 11:57:23
105.   bhsportsguy
100 That's true, he's a lame duck GM, so now we will have to endure the inevitable what does Ned have to do get an extension stories through 2009.
2008-11-06 11:58:45
106.   Eric Stephen
Saw this from the Boston Globe and thought it was interesting:

"The Dodgers, who also declined the $9.25 million option on righthander Brad Penny's contract yesterday, have a policy of not giving out deals of more than three or four years."

I guess except in the case of Juan Pierre. I don't think the club has a policy, but rather Colletti has shown a preference to shorter term deals. I found it weird to see that reported.

http://tinyurl.com/57ejpt

2008-11-06 11:59:34
107.   bhsportsguy
102 I think he has one, especially since he didn't have to retire.

88 That was the first time that Jerry West was questioned. West spent the rest of '80s making sure Magic didn't get to trade Worthy to Dallas for Mark Acquire.

2008-11-06 12:01:24
108.   Marty
Mel Counts
Cedric Ceballos
J.R. Reid
Devean George
Mark Landsberger
2008-11-06 12:04:21
109.   CanuckDodger
96 -- That is quite a grudge to hold, and taken to an extreme level, especially considering the "idiot" -- whom I don't really like either -- has in three seasons never failed to get his team to the finish line with any fewer than 11 more wins than DePo's 2005 club -- twice making the playoffs, and once getting the team further in the playoffs than any Dodger team in 20 years. Meanwhile, DePo is a prominent part of a management team that just maneuvered its team to a complete disaster of a season, and is likely to have a worse season next year once the formidable braintrust sells off its best player this off-season.
2008-11-06 12:04:53
110.   bhsportsguy
108 Chuck Nevitt, Travis Knight, Mike McGee, Billy Thompson, Larry Spriggs.

If I was going to add another forward to the team, it would be Wilkes and then Happy Hairston.

2008-11-06 12:06:33
111.   ToyCannon
107
Mark Aguirre may have had his own jersey retired if he had been able to play with Kareem and Magic like Worthy was able to.
2008-11-06 12:06:45
112.   Eric Stephen
I was always more of a Mike Smrek fan myself.
2008-11-06 12:07:06
113.   bhsportsguy
109 Most of you were probably waiting for me to write something like that.
2008-11-06 12:08:33
114.   bhsportsguy
111 No doubt, what about Wilkins, who the Lakers could have drafted too.

Was Acguirre more of a perimeter player or did he post up, I can't remember?

2008-11-06 12:08:33
115.   ToyCannon
J.Q. Trapp
2008-11-06 12:08:54
116.   JoeyP
Canuck will have a similar severance with the Dodgers once Logan White leaves.
2008-11-06 12:09:20
117.   Eric Stephen
111
What about 'Nique? I'm always intrigued by that draft...would the Lakers have been better or worse if they drafted Dominique Wilkins? Would 'Nique's skills have blossomed with the Lakers?

Either way, the Clips drafting Terry Cummings at #2 was their Sam Bowie moment, a year earlier.

2008-11-06 12:09:54
118.   Eric Stephen
114
Quick draw. :)
2008-11-06 12:10:13
119.   regfairfield
To be fair, the Padres current suckitude is because of the horrible drafting they did well before DePo showed up.
2008-11-06 12:11:45
120.   ToyCannon
114
Post up with a big butt if I remember right.
2008-11-06 12:11:50
121.   JoeyP
I'm suprised Terry's son didnt make the NBA. TJ Cummings had a great frosh year for UCLA.
2008-11-06 12:16:44
122.   ToyCannon
117
Come on, Cummings had a great career. We traded him for Marques Johnson who in typical Clipper fashion proceeded to get hurt after giving us two seasons and was done at the age of 30. The problem wasn't in drafting Terry Cummings, it was in trading him. He had six good seasons after they traded him.
2008-11-06 12:17:52
123.   bhsportsguy
121 The fact that Matt Barnes has made a career in the NBA and Cummings didn't is another reason why you just never know what happens when you keep going up in levels of competition.
2008-11-06 12:18:11
124.   ToyCannon
NBA sons don't seem to have the same impact tht major league player sons have had. Lot of good college players but any NBA quality guys?
2008-11-06 12:19:22
125.   fanerman
124 Kobe?
2008-11-06 12:20:18
126.   Eric Stephen
I looked up Agguire on Wiki to gain some more insight on his style (I seem to remember him as a scorer of all varieties, post up or perimeter), and as the #1 overall pick in 1981 at the bottom of the page, it shows he was preceded as #1 by Joe Barry Carroll, which caused my blood to boil just a bit.

I think that trade by Boston (Warriors sent Robert Parish and the #3 pick -- which ended up being McHale to the Celtics for the #1 pick) trumps any trade made by the Lakers as a heist.

2008-11-06 12:20:39
127.   bhsportsguy
117 Looking at that draft, there really wasn't a lot available aside from Wilkins.

As much as I like Michael Cage, the Clippers should have drafted Kevin Willis and John Stockton instead of Lancaster Gordon and Cage in 1984.

But then, they would not have needed Norm Nixon, so they don't trade Scott, who knows how their franchise would have affected.

2008-11-06 12:20:44
128.   CanuckDodger
116 -- Not true. First, I'll point out it is impossible for me to have a "similar severance" since I don't go to Dodger games in the first place -- what with living in another country. But I will be no less devoted a Dodger fan if or when White leaves. Depending on the circumstances of White's departure, I'll be sad or angry or possibly both, sure. But the Dodgers will still be my team, and I won't support them any less. And I already had my trauma when Dan Evans was fired. And I still think McCourt behaved abominably in that affair. However, I put it aside and got back to the business of supporting my team, and by extension the GM who replaced the guy I hated seeing fired.
2008-11-06 12:20:58
129.   Eric Stephen
I also looked up Aguirre.
2008-11-06 12:22:02
130.   Eric Stephen
122
You're right, that was a cheap shot regarding Cummings. Consider that retracted.
2008-11-06 12:22:40
131.   fanerman
124 Other sons who have had decent/good NBA careers, if not as great as their fathers: Brent and Jon Barry
Luke Walton
2008-11-06 12:23:16
132.   Eric Stephen
Mike Dunleavy?
2008-11-06 12:23:24
133.   CanuckDodger
119 -- And the Padres continue to draft the exact same way -- the "Moneyball" way.:)
2008-11-06 12:25:26
134.   ToyCannon
125
True but I meant someone who was good in the NBA. Jellybean was not exactly good.
2008-11-06 12:27:53
135.   D4P
NBA sons don't seem to have the same impact tht major league player sons have had. Lot of good college players but any NBA quality guys?

Surely at least some of the NBA quality guys are sons of Wilt Chamberlain...

2008-11-06 12:28:34
136.   ToyCannon
131
Good enough. We either have HOF quality fathers like Walton and Barry or HOF quality sons like Kobe. With the smaller number of players that is a good enough pot for me to take back my statement.
2008-11-06 12:30:15
137.   bhsportsguy
134 But he was a star in Italy.
2008-11-06 12:30:46
138.   fanerman
134 Then maybe Brent Barry is as good as it gets?
2008-11-06 12:31:11
139.   KG16
what no love around here for Rambis? How can you not love a guy flying into the third row after a loose ball in a blow out?
2008-11-06 12:34:15
140.   ToyCannon
We all loved Rambis but he's knocking up against a top 10 of mostly HOF players.
2008-11-06 12:34:59
141.   trainwreck
TJ Cummings got worse as his career went at UCLA.

In regards to Eric Chavez, all these injuries have pretty much sapped him of his power. I would be extremely skeptical about him.

2008-11-06 12:37:15
142.   oshea2002
Wow - Oregon's new baseball uniforms.

http://tinyurl.com/6mdsm8

2008-11-06 12:38:35
143.   KG16
142 - with permission Mr. Chairman, I move that the University of Oregon be officially banned from the NCAA in all sports.

140 - yeah, I suppose that is true.

2008-11-06 12:39:44
144.   trainwreck
142
The giant "O" ones are terrible. It seems like that would distract the batter at the plate.
2008-11-06 12:39:52
145.   D4P
142
Oregon's road pinstripes are not lines, as they appear from a distance. They are actually comprised of the complete lyrics of the UO fight song.
2008-11-06 12:40:18
146.   KG16
144 - or be a target for the pitcher
2008-11-06 12:40:28
147.   Tripon
*

Pat (Philly): Im positive I asked this question earlier this year, but I cant find it in the chat logs. Anyways the question is, Soto or Russel over the next 5 years?

SportsNation Keith Law: (3:13 PM ET ) I don't think you asked me. Whole package? I'd probably take Martin. Younger, better defender, outweighs Soto's superior bat.

2008-11-06 12:42:01
148.   arborial
142 looks like they all have "O" ring keychains hanging from their belts. The real question is, why do they need 6 different uniforms? The one with the big "O" on the chest looks like a superhero costume, alas it is too late for me to dress as O-Man for halloween.
2008-11-06 12:50:40
149.   regfairfield
133 I thought they were going with higher ceiling guys now and not going with guys like Antonelli.

How much better would the Padres be looking like now if they didn't take Matt Bush?

2008-11-06 12:53:26
150.   regfairfield
Since 1994 the Padres have had two first round picks turn into serviceable major leaguers, this is calling Dustin Hermanson a serviceable major leaguer. It's amazing they've had the success they did.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-11-06 12:57:19
151.   Tripon
With the "help" of Baseball-Reference.com's Play Index, I made a list ranking, in order of ERA+, all the left-handed pitchers with at least 450 innings over the last three seasons. Is Ollie in the top five?

Yes, he is.

If you rank them in ascending order. Which is a problem for Perez, because when it comes to ERA+, big is better. Perez has actually been the fifth-worst left-handed starter from 2006 through 2008. Perez's ERA+ over that span is 94, in the same neighborhood as Jarrod Washburn and Nate Robertson.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=neyer_rob

2008-11-06 12:58:52
152.   regfairfield
151 Doesn't that count the year where he had like an 8 ERA?
2008-11-06 12:59:31
153.   underdog
Speaking of the Dodgers' #1 fan (okay, we weren't), I wonder if I should be ordering a copy of Jason Gedrick and James Caan slumming it with Alyssa Milano in this fine film.

http://videoeta.com/movie/109177

Oh, wait. It's a Lifetime movie. Feh.

2008-11-06 12:59:46
154.   Tripon
The Dodgers offered Rafael Furcal a two-year deal worth $25-30MM. A source close to Furcal told Heyman that the Dodgers know that it will take more and at least eight teams have expressed interest in Furcal.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

2008-11-06 13:01:21
155.   Jon Weisman
153 - I got the screener of that a while back and switched it off inside of 10 minutes ...
2008-11-06 13:01:22
156.   Tripon
152 2006? Yeah, it does, and Rob Neyer takes note of it. Even if you only include 2007-08, There's still ten established lefties who are arguably better than Perez.
2008-11-06 13:02:25
157.   CanuckDodger
149 -- No, they still draft far too many untoolsy college players early in the draft.

The thing about the Bush pick is, even if they hadn't taken Bush, would the guy they did take be much better? We really don't know what the alternative pick would have been, especially since ownership ruled out anybody who would have wanted to be paid like the first overall pick.

Anyway, on this topic of the Padres and the draft, nobody here noticed that a San Diego paper did a story on "ex-Padre scout" Logan White's drafts for the Dodgers, around October 12, if I recall. The subtext of the article was along the lines of "Wouldn't it be nice if White had been working his magic for the Padres these last few years?"

2008-11-06 13:04:50
158.   Bob Timmermann
As for basketball stars, you could go father-daughter: Karl Malone and Cheryl Ford.

Henry Bibby was a pretty good NBA player and his son Mike has been even better.

2008-11-06 13:05:29
159.   Eric Enders
145 "Oregon's road pinstripes are not lines, as they appear from a distance. They are actually comprised of the complete lyrics of the UO fight song."

That's either really cool, or a sign of the coming apocalypse. I'm not really sure which.

By the way, 103 is amusing out of context.

2008-11-06 13:05:56
160.   Eric Stephen
157
Here is that article:

http://tinyurl.com/6gxbjf

2008-11-06 13:06:17
161.   regfairfield
157 I was going for if they didn't have the horrible thinking that led to them passing on Verlander or Weaver.
2008-11-06 13:06:19
162.   DaDoughboy
153.
Yep, safe to say Jason Gedrick probably should have quit while he was ahead with the Iron Eagle "franchise"..
2008-11-06 13:06:39
163.   D4P
What about Stan Love and his traitor son...?
2008-11-06 13:07:17
164.   underdog
155 Probably longer than I'd last!

It is not going to be ordered.

154 Seems like about the right offer for Furcal, and clearly someone else will offer him more. I might have gone for 3 years if I was LA, though, but it starts to get too risky...

2008-11-06 13:08:34
165.   Eric Enders
It remains to be seen what will happen to the freelance market, but I expect I'll probably go to the same amount of games I always do, which is zero at Dodger Stadium, and three to five Dodger road games.

Actually, I might enjoy more Dodger baseball next year than in the past, since the AAA team and the spring training complex are both being moved to within half a day's drive of me.

2008-11-06 13:10:49
166.   Samhain
I'm nearly sixty-one with a bad back and high blood pressure. I haven't been to Dodger Stadium since about 1980.
So seat price (or concession price) increases haven't affected me for a long long time...
2008-11-06 13:14:07
167.   trainwreck
165
Without getting into Rule 5, how about this Buck Burnette situation?
2008-11-06 13:16:10
168.   Tripon
http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/11/06/yankees-not-in-the-mix-for-peavy/

Dodgers seem to be out of the Peavy sweepstakes. (Not that they were actually never in it to begin with...)

Towers also revealed that he is dealing with three teams, all in the National League. He mentioned the possibility of Peavy moving as part of a multi-team trade.

The Padres are known to be dealing with the Braves and Cubs. The third team could be the Cardinals or Astros. The Yankees are not in the mix.

2008-11-06 13:16:11
169.   CanuckDodger
166 -- Hey, your user-name, "Samhain," was used in an episode of the TV series Supernatural last week. He was a demon raised from Hell in some sort of Celtic ritual.
2008-11-06 13:17:24
170.   trainwreck
169
Wish I was sober enough on Halloween to remember to have taken a picture of myself dressed as Ricky.
2008-11-06 13:18:26
171.   underdog
167 Without getting too rule 5-y, either, I thought his apology at least was pretty heartfelt. At least the one I read. Not that it wouldn't help him to get some counseling or something.

Guess people should be careful what they post on Facebook... I'm not, but some people should. ;-)

2008-11-06 13:18:41
172.   Eric Enders
167 Good riddance. Although it would have been nice to see him stay on the team long enough to get his bones crushed by the D-Line in practice.
2008-11-06 13:18:53
173.   regfairfield
The hindsight 2002 draft:

Dustin Pedroia
Yovani Gallardo
Justin Verlander
Hunter Pence
Jered Weaver
Stephen Drew
Huston Street
Wade Davis
Scott Elbert
Adam Lind

Would the Padres have grabbed any of these guys?

2008-11-06 13:20:43
174.   Tripon
173 This if anything shows that Baseball needs to allow swapping of draft picks. Padres would be better served if they could trade down and acquire multiple draft picks for the first pick of the draft.
2008-11-06 13:21:19
175.   trainwreck
171
These kind of things are one of the reasons why I hate Facebook and Myspace and all that stuff.
2008-11-06 13:23:29
176.   underdog
175 {quotes trainwreck and uses it as his Facebook status}
2008-11-06 13:24:55
177.   trainwreck
176
Tonight's game will be a study in how to not play defense.
2008-11-06 13:27:06
178.   JoeyP
154- I think a 2/25-30 yr offer for Furcal is more than fair from the Dodgers standpoint. I'm surprised, given his age/injury history that he'd even get that big of offer.
2008-11-06 13:28:53
179.   regfairfield
175 They're nice to have if you have the sense to not use racial slurs and delete incriminating photos.
2008-11-06 13:30:16
180.   Eric Enders
So once the Dodgers make all these fair short-term offers to free agents and are rejected, what's Plan B?
2008-11-06 13:31:41
181.   Tripon
180 Hope and pray that the next batch of kids are ready.
2008-11-06 13:33:28
182.   trainwreck
180
Get Loney, Kemp, and DeWitt on the Beltre diet?
2008-11-06 13:38:24
183.   CajunDodger
OK, if the Dodgers are only half-heartedly trying to sign Furcal and they are under-bidding in terms of years on Manny, I wonder what players are they targeting. I think that Manny is their #1 priority, but now that Penny is gone and Furcal is being pursued by half of baseball, what does Ned and Co. have in mind?

I am trying to be optimistic, but my stomach's a churnin'...

2008-11-06 13:40:29
184.   trainwreck
183
Well if short deals are all they will give then we can probably check CC off the list.
2008-11-06 13:42:16
185.   Tripon
184 I think the Dodgers will go all in on C.C. and offer him a 6-7 year deal of $125-150 million.

Question is if C.C. wants to be on the same team composed mostly of rookies to 3 year players.

2008-11-06 13:44:04
186.   Eric Stephen
180 ,183
Hopefully the next move is acquiring a starting pitcher that last pitched for Milwaukee.
2008-11-06 13:45:08
187.   Bob Timmermann
186
Jeff Suppan?
2008-11-06 13:46:30
188.   trainwreck
186
If they stick to short deals, I could see them trying to load up on one for Sheets. Maybe they would think he would be more inclined to do that.

Omar Vizquel wearing Dodger Blue keeps popping into my head.

2008-11-06 13:47:40
189.   JoeyP
When is Vizquel going to gracefully retire? After he gets to 3,000 hits?
2008-11-06 13:48:10
190.   Eric Stephen
187
Maybe Dodger fans would then get discounts here:

http://tinyurl.com/58n5fb

2008-11-06 13:51:03
191.   CajunDodger
185
He seemed to enjoy Milwaukee...

I think that every short term contract he has offered has been to players with risk of injury (Nomar, Furcal, Wolf, Schmidt) or in danger of falling off a cliff (Jones, Tomko).

I think that he would go for a longer term for durable young players. I can see him going all in for CC, Tex (under the right circumstances), or Oliver Perez.

2008-11-06 13:52:12
192.   trainwreck
Doesn't Sabathia's shape make a long-term deal risky?
2008-11-06 13:52:33
193.   underdog
177 Definitely. Don't know if I can bear to watch. Most of the Broncos D is on injured list it seems now, too. Sigh. 70-65 final score.
2008-11-06 13:54:40
194.   das411
186 - Dare I say it...Eric Gagne?

Does anybody know why the Rays are not trying to trade for Matt Holliday?

2008-11-06 13:55:21
195.   trainwreck
194
He can become a free agent and they won't be able to re-sign him.
2008-11-06 14:10:47
196.   Eric Stephen
193
If it makes you feel better, I am rooting for Enver tonight, thanks to the Brady Quinn factor.

Even though conceivably the Raiders could pull to within a game of 1st with a 3-6 record, I know that ain't happening. At least if the Broncos win the division, I can give all the Chargers fans around me a hard time.

2008-11-06 14:13:01
197.   ToyCannon
189
Isn't it to late for him to "gracefully" retire?
2008-11-06 14:13:05
198.   fanerman
Why is there football (seemingly) every day of the week these days?
2008-11-06 14:15:20
199.   trainwreck
198
Because this is America and we love our pigskin.
2008-11-06 14:17:50
200.   Bob Timmermann
198
Because the Mid America Conference wants to be on TV.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-11-06 14:19:53
201.   ToyCannon
I'm now 3 games in front in my pickem league. Collapse is due shortly.
2008-11-06 14:22:26
202.   underdog
196 Works for me! Oh God, Brady Quinn... this could be doubly painful. I would love to see him fall on his backside all night.
2008-11-06 14:23:17
203.   Bob Timmermann
202
I feel that I shouldn't criticize any Notre Dame quarterbacks because I will be told that they are really nice guys.

I keep my thoughts about Jimmy Clausen out of my Facebook status.

2008-11-06 14:23:45
204.   HoodedMafia
I have seen Beltre's name floated around as a possible candidate for 3B. What do you think it would take to realistically get the Mariners to go for it?
2008-11-06 14:28:44
205.   kinbote
204 On the excellent Mike Scioscia's Tragic Illness, the estimated cost is Elbert, Hu, G. Miller, & D. Young.
2008-11-06 14:36:51
206.   bferb
Has this been commented on yet?

Dodgers' offer to Manny Ramirez valued at $45 million

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-baseball7-2008nov07,0,5093329.story

2008-11-06 14:37:21
207.   underdog
203 No need to hold back on ND QBs here, in my opinion.
2008-11-06 14:37:44
208.   fanerman
206 That doesn't feel like we're really trying.
2008-11-06 14:39:29
209.   silverwidow
Sounds like Peavy to the Braves for Yunel Escobar and change could happen soon.
2008-11-06 14:40:25
210.   bferb
208 I really am finding it hard to believe that is all we would offer. Only $15MM in '09? The math doesnt even seem to pan out to make Manny's contract the second highest as I have repeatedly seen Johan's contract at an average of $22.9 MM.
2008-11-06 14:40:57
211.   underdog
209 Gotta assume the Padres will get something better than change or that's highway robbery. Once again, the Dodgers get asked for the moon and several other planets, and then said team ends up with, er, just a few asteroids.
2008-11-06 14:42:29
212.   fanerman
Is it common to hear rumors of how much we're offering to various free agents?
2008-11-06 14:43:24
213.   kinbote
206 No wonder Boras didn't react.
2008-11-06 14:43:25
214.   Eric Enders
212 Only when the club expects to be turned down and wants to make sure people know they tried.
2008-11-06 14:43:30
215.   underdog
210 From the Boston Globe story: "A major league source indicated the Ramírez offer is worth between Johan Santana's average of $22.9 million per year and Alex Rodriguez's $27.5 million."
2008-11-06 14:43:39
216.   trainwreck
206
If that is true then dzzrtRatt was right.
2008-11-06 14:43:40
217.   Eric Stephen
206
The offer includes a 2009 salary of $15 million and an option for a third year

This at least gives me some home they are freeing up 2009 money for CC.

2008-11-06 14:45:12
218.   bferb
215 Exactly. That's why I am questioning whether this LA Times story is accurate.
2008-11-06 14:46:36
219.   HoodedMafia
205 Based on that, do you trade Elbert, Hu, G. Miller, and D. Young for Beltre?
2008-11-06 14:46:58
220.   Eric Stephen
210 ,218
It's just accounting tricks with present value. The LA Times article says the owners value Johan's contract at $21.3m annually while the players association views it as $20.5m.
2008-11-06 14:48:07
221.   Eric Enders
The Dodgers claim it's the second-highest seasonal average ever because they decided to arbitrarily ignore A-Rod's first 10-year deal and Clemens's contract in 2007. If the Manny offer is for the amount reported by the Boston Globe, then it would be fourth-highest average salary.
2008-11-06 14:48:21
222.   bferb
217 Everywhere I've been reading, the Yankees are preparing to offer CC the largest pitching contract in history, which I really doubt the Dodgers will compete with unless CC decides money isnt everything and he really wants to be in the NL on the West Coast (as he has previously stated)
2008-11-06 14:51:18
223.   Eric Enders
222 From an objective perspective, who's likelier to be a championship caliber team in 2009, the Yankees or Dodgers? You'd probably have to say the Yankees right now simply because the Dodgers don't have any players yet.
2008-11-06 14:53:05
224.   Bob Timmermann
223
As long as the Dodgers have Blake DeWitt, they'll always have one "ballplayer."
2008-11-06 14:55:06
225.   kinbote
219 Me? I'm not sure. Probably not. My preference would be for Colletti not to make any more trades. The Beltre trade suggested there is part of an elaborate 19-step plan that depends on a lot of other dominoes falling. It's hard to look at it in isolation. That being said, I think the package is realistic. Elbert would be the main prize.
2008-11-06 14:56:17
226.   Jon Weisman
Latest in the Lute Olson saga.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/265845.php

Via the L.A. Times

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/11/lute-olson-no-1.html

2008-11-06 14:57:05
227.   delias man
223 Assuming the Dodger sign enough players to have a 25 man roster, I think they have the easier "path" to the championship than the Yankees.
2008-11-06 15:06:01
228.   trainwreck
226
Just when you think this story could not get any worse.
2008-11-06 15:07:16
229.   Harold M Johnson
226 I read the linked stories but still don't understand the context. Why did the ex-wife blame the doctor for the collapse of the marriage?
2008-11-06 15:09:48
230.   Eric Enders
229 I guess that's the $64,000 question.

When the doctor spoke publicly last week about Olson's stroke, I admit I thought it was a little weird given the confidentiality issue and that there was no indication he had Olson's permission to talk about it.

2008-11-06 15:13:23
231.   ToyCannon
225
I think the problem with the plan is that he's undervaluing the players he expects us to sign. Neither Rafy or Manny will be signing those contracts. I think as Dodger fans we have to figure out what the Winter holds with the idea that
We are not going to sign CC
We are not going to sign Lowe
We are not going to sign Manny
We are not going to sign Furcal
We are not going to sign Sheets
We are not going to sign Teixeira

and I don't think we come close to his budget in 2009.

2008-11-06 15:14:59
232.   Bob Timmermann
229
I'm presuming here, but it seems that Olson was showing signs of clinical depression. And whatever treatment he was receiving also led Olson to believe that he needed to get out of his marriage.

However, it has come out now that Olson's depression was triggered by a stroke.

It's very sad that the man has to have all of his dirty laundry aired this way. It's not like Lute Olson is a bad guy. And even if he were, he still wouldn't need to have all this aired in public.

2008-11-06 15:15:12
233.   Eric Enders
225 "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for the June draft."
2008-11-06 15:15:54
234.   trainwreck
Tim Kurkjian was just on Sportscenter and he said his Dodger source told him today that the team cannot afford to give out contracts longer than three years to anyone.
2008-11-06 15:16:47
235.   Eric Enders
My last post was actually a reply to 231 but you get the idea.
2008-11-06 15:17:36
236.   Eric Stephen
234
Well, that sucks.
2008-11-06 15:17:46
237.   CodyS
Schwarzenegger has proposed a tax on tickets to sporting events, to help close the budget deficit.
So the national economic crisis leading to lower revenues next year is something every team will have to deal with. But the California teams may have this extra, regional disadvantage.
2008-11-06 15:18:13
238.   regfairfield
234 That just doesn't make sense.
2008-11-06 15:18:18
239.   JoeyP
217- Thats some massive backloading.

15mils for 2009
30 mils for 2010.

Yeah, I dont think Manny's gonna go for only a 2yr deal.

2008-11-06 15:18:57
240.   D4P
the team cannot afford to give out contracts longer than three years to anyone

What if the contracts that are longer than 3 years are for less total money than the contracts that are for 3 years or less...?

2008-11-06 15:19:17
241.   Bob Timmermann
230
When that doctor spoke, I believe Olson's children were with him. So that would lead me to believe the doctor was given permission to talk about his patient's condition.
2008-11-06 15:19:56
242.   bferb
231
Ned's more likely offseason acts unfortunately:

Signs Oliver Perez for some stupid $14 MM price tag

Juan Pierre returns to Left Field

DeJesus or Hu plays short

Sign the O-Dog for $15 MM(who subsequently gets injured in the first month)

Yay!

2008-11-06 15:20:07
243.   Bob Timmermann
238
We're living in End Times, People!

It's in Revelations!

2008-11-06 15:20:09
244.   CodyS
234 That makes sense only if they are thinking of keeping all their young players, as their salaries dramatically escalate.
In other words, they think the budget for 2012 and beyond is going to be largely consumed by the young players of 2008.
2008-11-06 15:21:43
245.   blue22
234 - Very strange, since isn't that when Pierre's contract is up? Is he forecasting a significant increase in payroll to be able to extend this current group of young players?

Broxton has the most service time of this group I believe. He's up for FA in 2012.

2008-11-06 15:22:20
246.   delias man
Does he have to spend all of his own money for this stupid construction for the next 3 years?

The money is supposed to roll in in 2012 if their plan comes together at the stadium.

I hope that is not true about nothing more than 3 years.

2008-11-06 15:22:47
247.   Bumsrap
My thoughts regarding Jones is that if he wants a trade, he and the players union need to be the ones that eat his old contract and not the Dodgers. I would put him at the end of the bench and forget he is part of the team before I would subsidize his trade or release him. If he comes back fit and has a healthy knee, has learned to hit, then he can play otherwise, he sits at the end of the bench.
2008-11-06 15:24:45
248.   John Hale
205 Based on that, do you trade Elbert, Hu, G. Miller, and D. Young for Beltre?

As a Mariner ticket holder and Dodger fan I would love that. Beltre helps a team that might compete and the M's can upgrade to watchable. But do you acquire Beltre 3 months before he can swing a bat again?

2008-11-06 15:24:56
249.   CajunDodger
234
That is simply illogical. Our committed payroll after 2009 is currently around $60 million (figuring tons of money for Kemp, Loney, Martin, Bills, etc.) with only Pierre and Kuroda earning more than $8 million.

McCourt might not be the Steinbrenners, but he could certainly afford giving out some decent contracts this offseason given his current revenue streams.

2008-11-06 15:25:28
250.   Eric Stephen
238
The only thing I can think of is the McCourt has some deep debt, and the MLB CBA has a Debt Service Rule such that the total debt, which includes all long-term salary commitments, can't be above a certain percentage of the club's EBITDA.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-11-06 15:26:02
251.   regfairfield
248 Does it, it seems like the only guy that means anything in that deal to the Mariners is Elbert.
2008-11-06 15:26:07
252.   ToyCannon
If only the ban on any deal longer then 3 years had been in place during Nov of 2006 life would be easier. Of course paying Juan Pierre 20 mill for 3 years might have caused some pain.
2008-11-06 15:26:20
253.   D4P
I hope that is not true about nothing more than 3 years

I, on the other hand, heartily applaud. The longer the contract, the more likely it is to work against the team.

2008-11-06 15:27:34
254.   ToyCannon
251
Unless Dave Cameron is running them and you know how he loves his defense. Hu would be a super star for them:)
2008-11-06 15:28:05
255.   regfairfield
253 But if you aren't willing to give out contracts more than three years, you aren't getting good players.
2008-11-06 15:28:05
256.   Harold M Johnson
There aren't any free agents out there, save CC Sabathia, who are worth giving more then 3 years.

I did love having Manny last year, it made the season without a doubt. BUT, more then 3 years is inviting problems.

2008-11-06 15:29:03
257.   Harold M Johnson
Sorry I meant to say there aren't any who are on the Dodgers' radar screen.
2008-11-06 15:29:27
258.   JoeyP
I wonder if this 3-yr rule also means that the Dodgers will not be buying out arbitration for any of the youngsters?
2008-11-06 15:30:21
259.   Eric Enders
253 But it's also a way of ensuring that you never sign anybody and thus never win.
2008-11-06 15:30:22
260.   Bumsrap
I do not want the Dodgers to give Manny more than a two year contract and I don't want to give Furcal more than a 1 year contract of $5MM plus incentives that could add another $7MM and trigger option years.

Hu and Abreu are better gambles at ss than is Furcal.

2008-11-06 15:30:36
261.   ToyCannon
256
I'd add Teixeira to that list but I agree, nobody else is out there that I'd be offering more then 3 years to. Seems like a sensible plan if you are not going to get the big fish.
2008-11-06 15:33:04
262.   blue22
254 - It would force them to dump the brutal Yuniesky Betancourt too.
2008-11-06 15:33:13
263.   CajunDodger
253
But our issue is that we can't attract decent players because of this stupid short contract thing. The only free agents I can think of that would like the short term/high dollar thing are possible Sheets, Dempster, and Cabrera/Renteria. Those are precisely the types of players that got us in the Jones/Schmidt debacle.

There are a few free agents worth a long term deal. Sabbathia and Tex meet that definition this year. Holliday meets it next year. The reason we are getting the solid player as opposed to the Manny/CC types in free agency is that the only ones who accept Colletti's terms have been recently hurt or recently crappy.

I need Jon to come in and settle me down...

2008-11-06 15:33:57
264.   Daniel Zappala
We could be become the Rays for one season, just living off our farm system, making judicious trades, signing good young players to extensions, and staying out of the free agent market.
2008-11-06 15:35:03
265.   Bumsrap
Elbert is perhaps a half a season away from being much more valuable than he is now and Beltre may be about 3 months away from not having value.
2008-11-06 15:35:35
266.   JoeyP
Didnt McCourt buy the Dodgers with virtually no money down?

And now he has money problems...No way!

2008-11-06 15:36:00
267.   ToyCannon
264
I think the Phillies are a better comp. What free agents did they sign? Their best acquisitions were ex Dodger outfielders. If only we could pick off players the Dodgers let go. I hear Brad Penny is available.
2008-11-06 15:36:55
268.   Eric Enders
264 Yeah, but in order to be the Rays you first need to suck badly enough to get the #1, 2, or 3 draft pick many years in a row.

And we also can't do the other thing the Rays did: Trade with Ned Colletti.

2008-11-06 15:37:10
269.   D4P
We could be become the Rays for one season, just living off our farm system, making judicious trades, signing good young players to extensions, and staying out of the free agent market.

Yes.

2008-11-06 15:38:59
270.   regfairfield
269 But who do you trade? Maybe you sell high on Wade but that's about the only guy that has any value we can part with.

Unless you mean trading prospects.

2008-11-06 15:39:29
271.   ToyCannon
266
Shocking right, isn't anyone curious how he's been funding the capital improvements at Dodger Stadium every year. This guy is probably leveraged up the gazoo. A Carlos Santana bird told me that credit is tight these days. You do the math.
2008-11-06 15:39:36
272.   John Hale
262
I was mostly focused on Yuniesky Betancourt being out because of that. Of course his name is the only one I ever get right when they play "player anagrams" on the jumbo screen between innings. After watching Willie Bloomquist for four years I think D Young could find a spot.
2008-11-06 15:40:08
273.   trainwreck
Judicious trades have not been Ned's specialty.
2008-11-06 15:40:49
274.   Eric Enders
There's this free agent who would certainly agree to a one-year contract to take Manny's place... name rhymes with "Marry Monds."
2008-11-06 15:41:13
275.   D4P
270
Given the decisions that Ned has made in the past and the situation we're in now, we can't necessarily implement that strategy now. There are too many holes in the field and rotation for us to avoid the free agent market in the short term.
2008-11-06 15:41:47
276.   trainwreck
274
Imagine if the Rays had signed him last year.
2008-11-06 15:41:48
277.   delias man
274 I endorse that signing.
2008-11-06 15:43:05
278.   D4P
274
Ned doesn't seem to have much of an excuse not to sign Monds. It's not as if Ned can (unhypocritically) hold Marry's "ex-Giant, ex-PED user" status against him.
2008-11-06 15:43:13
279.   CajunDodger
271
And he has waaaaay less TV revenue coming in than other clubs due to Fox selling the rights to itself.

Martin
DeWitt
Ethier
Kemp
Loney
Jones
Hu
Abreu
Bills

Your 2009 Dodger opening day lineup. This must be what the Pirates feel like on opening day.

2008-11-06 15:44:34
280.   Eric Stephen
274
2008 would have been the year to sign this fellow. March 2009 is when a relatively famous perjury trial starts, and that could interfere with a baseball season.
2008-11-06 15:45:19
281.   Tripon
279 I think that lineup can win 84 games.

Of course the question is if 84 games can win the NL West.

2008-11-06 15:45:53
282.   delias man
Has someone heard something I have not about Abreu? I scoured the Dom Winter League, and do not see him anywhere. How do we know he is healthy?
2008-11-06 15:46:20
283.   Harold M Johnson
Roberto Duran says: No Monds.
2008-11-06 15:47:33
284.   Eric Stephen
279
I believe McCourt is free to have his own network in 2014 (10 years after he bought the club, part of the deal per Fox).
2008-11-06 15:49:11
285.   ToyCannon
279
In 2007 weren't we expecting that lineup in 2009 other then Jones? It doesn't look horrible to me. That would be a killer defensive team and with the proper offensive growth from Loney, Kemp, Martin, and DeWitt along with Jones not being the worse hitter in baseball it might be enough.

Okay enough of the polyanna, I could live with that lineup but the rotation would need CC to make it work.

2008-11-06 15:50:02
286.   blue22
272 - I'm a recent transplant to Seattle, and I loathe the double play combo here. A couple of .300 OBPers fantastically overrated on defense.

I enjoy going to the games at Safeco, really like Felix, and actually am really trying to adopt the team. But man, is that just a messed-up franchise, top-to-bottom.

2008-11-06 15:50:11
287.   ToyCannon
282
Wasn't he working as Boras's caddy during the last week?
2008-11-06 15:50:11
288.   Marty
Does this mean that Frank's lenders are calling in the debt early? Did he go the sub-prime route to buy the team?
2008-11-06 15:52:05
289.   regfairfield
262 Problem is I don't seem them dumping Betancourt because they're committed to him.
2008-11-06 15:53:05
290.   CajunDodger
281
I am not too high on Hu/Abreu/Dewitt as 3/4 of our infield. Given the fact that Hu and Jones couldn't hit two bills and Abreu may be a no-show because of injury, I'm not feeling too good about our depth if those guys are being counted on for 1500 ABs. That team wins 70 games in my opinion.
2008-11-06 15:53:46
291.   Tripon
Wonder what the chance is for Baseball to do a fire sale of the Dodgers.
2008-11-06 15:55:19
292.   D4P
69% of ESPN.com voters think that Manny Ramirez will sign with the Dodgers.
2008-11-06 15:55:57
293.   68elcamino427
I'm going to more games next year

Martin - The Golden God - one of the strongest men in the game.

Loney - The .300 hitter wil continue to develop power.

Kemp - The Bison - Untamed and maturing.

Ethier - The perfectionist - 3.5 no more.

Kershaw - Watch out!

Billingsley - continues to improve an greatness.

DeWitt - Will be 21 years old.

Broxton - will learn that he can get more people out at 93 with movement than 96 straight.

McDonald
Wade

Wow - if Abreu can play!

McCourt will fill in the blanks by the All-Star break.

Martin - Loney - Kemp
Last hot stove we were pleading to please keep them together.

I'll be going to more games.
Dodger Stadium - What a view!

2008-11-06 15:56:20
294.   ToyCannon
290
But you have other options. If Abreu is a no show DeWitt moves to 2nd, Martin to 3rd, and Carlos Santana takes over at catcher. What are you worried about?
2008-11-06 15:57:46
295.   ToyCannon
292
Isn't that because ESPN has been telling them that Manny will likely sign with us? Or have they looked at all the teams and concluded that a 37 year old DH is best suited to sign a multi year contract with a NL team?
2008-11-06 15:58:33
296.   regfairfield
None of our hitters breaking out last year kind of put the damper on 2009.
2008-11-06 15:58:37
297.   ToyCannon
293
DeWitt is going to get younger? What a deal, sign me up.
2008-11-06 15:58:39
298.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2008-11-06 15:59:40
299.   Eric Stephen
293
DeWitt turned 23 on August 20.
2008-11-06 16:00:24
300.   scareduck
I really want to revisit CanuckDodger's 109 , so I will post it whole here:

That is quite a grudge to hold, and taken to an extreme level, especially considering the "idiot" -- whom I don't really like either -- has in three seasons never failed to get his team to the finish line with any fewer than 11 more wins than DePo's 2005 club -- twice making the playoffs, and once getting the team further in the playoffs than any Dodger team in 20 years. Meanwhile, DePo is a prominent part of a management team that just maneuvered its team to a complete disaster of a season, and is likely to have a worse season next year once the formidable braintrust sells off its best player this off-season.

1) The Padres are a small-market team.
2) They had a moribund farm system at the time DePodesta joined them, which was undoubtedly one reason Sandy Alderson was brought in.
3) WRT Peavy, what on Earth do you expect them to do? There is simply no conceivable way they can compete in the near future, and shopping their best pitcher is a white flag acknowledging that. They need good, young, CHEAP talent, and the fastest way to get it is to raid somebody else's system. Peavy will be good for a while, but he will not be cheap very soon.
4) The Padres' 2008 season was foreseeable; they lost their best or second-best hitter (Bradley), they didn't have much back of him offensively, the bullpen could reasonably be expected to get a little worse, and the starting rotation had overachieved a bit in 2007 (Chris Young in particular fell to Earth); once Young was back in the category of Mere Mortals, there was nothing behind him, either.

This sounds very half-cocked, Canuck, which is rather unlike you.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-11-06 16:03:37
301.   68elcamino427
299
Sorry - got Kershaw on the brain.

DeWitt at 24?
Maybe he should be traded:)

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