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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
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5) discussing politics
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Go With the Spirit
2008-11-11 08:28
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Dodgers Appoint Head of Security
Today, the Dodgers announced the hiring of Ray Maytorena, a bilingual 24-year veteran of the U.S. Secret Service, as Vice President of Security.

"Most recently, Maytorena served as the Special Agent in Charge (SES) of the Los Angeles field office, the nation's third-largest district, in which he managed more than 250 employees," a Dodger press release said. "In that capacity, he oversaw security and protection for the numerous large events, including the State Funeral of President Gerald Ford, and served as the lead advance agent for the 1996 Republic National Convention in San Diego."
For those of us watching Dodger baseball on TV a generation ago, the names Murph, Nick and Jill were almost as ubiquitous as Garvey, Lopes and Cey. The first three were characters in an ongoing series of commercials for Union 76 (as Unocal was known back then).

Union 76's association with the Dodgers was strong - for decades they advertised in the circle high above the Dodger Stadium scoreboards, and they also operated the gas station in the ballpark parking lot. As often as these commercials aired, extolling the virtues of gas with spirit (theirs was the David Eckstein of gas), the Union 76 gang seemed like part of the Dodger family.

Murph (played by longtime character actor Richard X. Slattery), was the avuncular gas station operator. Nick (George DiCenzo) was the goofy but well-meaning No. 2. Jill (Jean Rasey) was the girl next door, if you lived next door to an up-and-coming, Pam Beesley-like mechanic.

The fourth member of the troupe was at one point played by Larry Wilcox, until he got cast alongside Erik Estrada in a little masterpiece we like to call CHiPs. I used to think he and Jill would end up getting married (Jill had a fairly active dating life). After Wilcox left, the producers followed television tradition by bringing in a previously unmentioned relative, Murph Jr.

Murph's 76 will always be a part of my Dodger memories.

Here's a very special one ...

* * *

I'd like to wish our country's veterans a good day. I know I've been remiss in expressing such sentiments in the past, but I do truly appreciate their service for us.

Comments (279)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-11-11 10:01:43
1.   underdog
Oh man. These are priceless. Definitely a part of my childhood, too, as much as I hate to admit that for ads.

Amen on Veteran's Day, too.

--

I don't understand what the Marlins are thinking in that trade with the Nats at all, but I guess time will tell.

2008-11-11 10:06:29
2.   Tripon
Word is going around that a few people with the Dodgers have soured on Martin, and some of them may include members of the team's excellent pitching staff. Outside teams were anxious to try to make a deal for Martin, who has proved to be a fine two-way player, even if he can apparently wear on folks. Third base could be another option if the problem is limited to the pitchers. If the Dodgers do decide to move him -- and the evidence is fairly thin so far -- the Red Sox, Reds, Royals, Marlins, Astros and anyone else looking for a catcher would be lining up.

You mean the crap that you wrote Heyman about Martin? That 'thin' evidence? Seriously, its like he doesn't even realize that he's spewing this manure.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jon_heyman/11/11/heyman.storylines/index.html?eref=writers

2008-11-11 10:06:30
3.   fanerman
I have a Dodgers CD wallet that I got from a Union 76 promotion a decade or so ago. I still have it and use it at work whenever I take the company car places. I'm not sure if my Giants-fan-coworkers have noticed it.
2008-11-11 10:06:59
4.   bhsportsguy
Random thoughts:

Of course, there was nothing like Vin doing those commercials from the gas pump.

Jill is the same age as Michelle Obama.

That had to be a styrofoam cake Jill is holding in Murph's birthday commercial.

2008-11-11 10:08:20
5.   Bob Timmermann
"Murph Jr." looks familiar, but he remains one of those character actors whose name eludes me.

It would be hard to write an ad now bragging that you have leaded gas.

"76 Gas! We have the gas that will help increase air pollution!"

2008-11-11 10:09:36
6.   Bob Timmermann
4
I think you may want to redo the math there on Jean Rasey's age.
2008-11-11 10:09:36
7.   ToyCannon
Wow Jon, I had totally forgotten about those commercials. Thanks for bringing those back.

On a related note, with DHL closing delivery service to the US and closing down a town in Ohio
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/10/dhl.closing.wilmington/?iref=mpstoryview

and AIG costing taxpayers 160 Billion, any other Dodger billboard advertisers who may be hitting the economic headlines next? Was Washington Mutual an advertiser?

2008-11-11 10:10:38
8.   Bob Timmermann
7
Bank of America has the monopoly on bank ads at Dodger Stadium.
2008-11-11 10:12:17
9.   ToyCannon
1
I saw a good explanation at baseball hq.
" Willingham is a decent hitter, nothing special as an OF and has had some injury issues. Olsen, as many remember from last season, was pitching above his BPIs and, in terms of talent, wasn't one of their top 5 SP. And Jacobs is a low OBP 1B with a little power and not a great defensive 1B either.

So, all-in-all, they dump $6-10MM in salary and three players who, at best, are role players on a championship team. And it isn't as if they don't have viable (and comparable) replacements in the minors (Sanchez/McPherson for Jacobs; A. Miller for Olsen; Maybin for Willingham (actually Ross in LF))."

2008-11-11 10:12:41
10.   delias man
That cake was huge. She was not even struggling to hold it?
2008-11-11 10:12:52
11.   MC Safety
I remember the 76/Dodger partnership because of those pin sets. My Nana, who was a huge Dodger fan growing up in Brooklyn, got me every single one.
2008-11-11 10:13:05
12.   JJoeScott
PMO ...

Purple
Motor
Oil

(also, Positive Mental Outlook)

2008-11-11 10:13:48
13.   Jon Weisman
7 - I have fond memories of the Adelphia Stadium Club myself.
2008-11-11 10:13:50
14.   Bob Timmermann
Bhsportsguy is older than Michelle Obama.

And she could post him up too. That's an important role for a First Lady. Laura Bush was always getting beaten up down on the blocks by the other spouses of world leaders.

2008-11-11 10:14:11
15.   delias man
7 After all, it is the official bank of major league baseball.
2008-11-11 10:14:11
16.   fiddlestick
I still have a bunch of 8 1/2 x 11 prints of portraits of various Dodgers from a Unocal 76 giveaway from some time in the 80's. They're not in mint condition or anything, but I've got the Vin Scully one. I've always liked them since they're different.
2008-11-11 10:14:41
17.   underdog
9 That is a pretty good explanation, actually. I still feel like they didn't get comparable value in return, but perhaps that will be proven wrong down the road. I wonder if the Nats will continue to be tossed in the rumor mix for Teixeira or if that's it for them.
2008-11-11 10:14:53
18.   bhsportsguy
6 Man, you are right. I thought she would have been really young to do those commercials.
2008-11-11 10:15:49
19.   bhsportsguy
14 Yes on both counts.
2008-11-11 10:17:19
20.   Jon Weisman
Tony Dow has made it to the Louvre:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-tonydow12-2008nov12,0,6549231.story

2008-11-11 10:17:41
21.   ToyCannon
Full Service gas stations. I remember with trepidation when I first had to fill my car myself. It is strange to look back on things you feared, they seem so silly now.
2008-11-11 10:18:09
22.   Bob Timmermann
15
At least MLB picked a fairly stable bank.

As for other big Dodgers sponsors, I think Trader Joe's is doing OK. I can't speak for Universal.

I think the Sheriff and County Registrar-Recorder are still in business.

2008-11-11 10:22:51
23.   underdog
Really? I'd heard the LA Sheriff's office was bought out and outsourced to Malaysia.
2008-11-11 10:22:56
24.   Jon Weisman
Suffering Bruin misses out again ...

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117995614.html

I think they should have cast SB's son.

2008-11-11 10:23:07
25.   ToyCannon
DHL stood out to me because they put it on the bullpen gates instead of the outfield walls. If Trader Joe's was to go under I would be bumming.
2008-11-11 10:25:42
26.   Daniel Zappala
Thanks, Jon, that was a good way to lighten up a day when I'm stuck at home, sick.
2008-11-11 10:25:54
27.   delias man
22 "Drinkability" doing ok too i guess.

I also love the U of La Verne ads on the board behind the plate. Nice to see where my student loan payments are going to. They are doing well too, campus is about to double in size so I read.

2008-11-11 10:26:35
28.   Daniel Zappala
21 I'm an outlaw. I filled up my own tank in Oregon this summer, forgetting that they only do full service.
2008-11-11 10:27:50
29.   Bob Timmermann
28
Don't go to New Jersey, they have a reciprocal extradition agreement with Oregon for that crime.
2008-11-11 10:28:49
30.   Eric Stephen
28
I can imagine a final episode of Seinfeld-esque trial for violating some arcane ordinance.
2008-11-11 10:29:06
31.   Marty
I remember the 76 Dodger plastic tumblers from the Sixties. We used to ride our bikes to the gas station and buy them. I wonder what happened to those. I'm sure I got tired of them and my mom threw them out. I just checked Ebay and there's a Ron Perranoski one for sale.
2008-11-11 10:29:59
32.   Bob Timmermann
I miss the ads behind home plate for Boeing. I never could figure out why they had to advertise. Would you look at that ad and say "Boy, I need a Boeing jet!"

A few years back there was an ad from a Japanese corporation that made trains. And not model trains. Big rolling stock things. It was baffling.

2008-11-11 10:30:47
33.   Daniel Zappala
I remember the 76 balls people put on their antennas. They actually sell those on Ebay too.
2008-11-11 10:33:34
34.   D4P
My favorite ads are drug ads in which you are not told what the drug is for, but are encouraged to "Ask your doctor if (drug name) is right for you."
2008-11-11 10:33:40
35.   Bob Timmermann
I have a 76 antenna ball. My cat loves to bat it around the house. It's likely under the deep recesses of a couch or chair. But when Casey finds it, watch out.

There were also 76 balls in the shape of a football and one with basketball markings.

A coworker of mine at the library worked for Unocal for years until they got out of the library business and she has all sorts of 76 memorabilia.
Among company insiders, the 76 ball is "The Meatball."

2008-11-11 10:35:05
36.   Daniel Zappala
Unocal was in the library business?
2008-11-11 10:36:23
37.   Bob Timmermann
36
It had a corporate library. But it didn't really need a corporate library when it was no longer a corporation.
2008-11-11 10:37:04
38.   Jon Weisman
Today the Dodgers announced the hiring of Ray Maytorena, a bilingual 24-year veteran of the U.S. Secret Service, as Vice President of Security.
2008-11-11 10:37:09
39.   Kevin Lewis
OT: I mean to ask this question about the Office Halloween episode awhile ago. Is it just me or did it start as Halloween with everyone dressed up, and then all of a sudden no one was wearing costumes?
2008-11-11 10:37:31
40.   Bob Timmermann
34
FDA regulations require that TV ads tell you EVERY side effect and warning before you can say what the drug is for.
2008-11-11 10:37:52
41.   Terry A
14 was funny, Bob. At least to me.
2008-11-11 10:40:48
42.   Disabled List
That was a serious trip down memory lane. The "Go with the spirit..." jingle just gave me a flashback to 1983.

I wonder how much Murph & Co. sold their gas for back then.

2008-11-11 10:40:51
43.   D4P
40
Among ads that actually tell you the side effects, I'm not fooled when they read off the side effects in a happy, cheerful, worry-free voice that doesn't deviate from how they enumerate the various benefits of the drug.
2008-11-11 10:41:31
44.   Jim Hitchcock
It would be hard to write an ad now bragging that you have leaded gas.

That's right! I needed it for my Yamaha 400 2-stroke.

2008-11-11 10:45:51
45.   OhioBlues12
39 - I don't think it was really a Halloween episode. The very beginning depicted Halloween at Dunder-Miflen and the rest of the episode took place on a regular day at the office.
2008-11-11 10:46:21
46.   Marty
76 antenna balls were huge in my neighborhood. We used to steal them off of cars and use them for wiffle ball. You could really curve those suckers. Wrap some tape around em and it would hurt if you got hit with one. Probably ruined a few young arms.
2008-11-11 10:46:41
47.   Kevin Lewis
45

But it felt like it all took place on the same day. I need to watch it again.

2008-11-11 10:47:17
48.   Kevin Lewis
46

76 antenna wiffle ball game outside DS?

2008-11-11 10:50:37
49.   bhsportsguy
I still have my Burger King "Return of the Jedi" glass set.
2008-11-11 10:52:34
50.   bhsportsguy
38 First thing on his checklist, when someone calls the phone number they give out at the Stadium to report a disturbance, please have someone there to answer the phone and deal with the issue.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-11-11 10:53:28
51.   goofus
32 It's a form of welfare or graft. Utility companies and other monopolies do it too. I figure that the CEO has an advertising department to have jobs for all his relatives. On more cynical days I think he spends millions on unnecessary advertising because he gets kickbacks from the ad agency and others who profit from it. Why hasn't anyone ever sued about it or the IRS called them for claiming a legitimate tax write-off?
2008-11-11 10:53:57
52.   Jon Weisman
Piazza to write memoir:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/11/11/piazza.book.ap/index.html

2008-11-11 10:54:26
53.   Jim Hitchcock
20 Oh no! Don't tell me he's starring in `The Da Vinci Code II'!
2008-11-11 10:56:13
54.   trainwreck
How many years before they remake the Godfather?
2008-11-11 10:56:15
55.   OhioBlues12
47 - Yeah, I know. I initially thought the same thing.
2008-11-11 10:57:11
56.   ToyCannon
38
The new hire should be able to keep Frank and family safe but I also hope he has extensive experience in crowd control with discretion. Secret Service can do anything they want, he won't have the same authority at a ball game.

I wonder if Staples metal detectors will soon be added to making Dodger entry lines unbearable.

2008-11-11 11:00:50
57.   Indiana Jon
Thanks Jon.
2008-11-11 11:02:58
58.   Tripon
54 How many years will it take to make a Back to the Future remake? 2015?
2008-11-11 11:03:12
59.   Bob Timmermann
NL Cy Young results up on the Griddle.
2008-11-11 11:04:34
60.   underdog
All I know is I'm disturbed enough at the rumors that Spielberg (and Will Smith?!) may be remaking "Oldboy." So I definitely don't want to think about a Godfather remake.
2008-11-11 11:06:27
61.   rubdawg
WOW! What trip down memory lane. Brings me back to going to Union 76 with my folks just so I could get my pins to collect. Also I remember getting photos of my favorite Dodger, 3-Dog Willie Davis. Then go home watch the game on TV keeping score with my KTTV-11 Dodger scorebook wearing my Dodger/Pepsi fan club t-shirt. Go Dodger Blue!
2008-11-11 11:06:38
62.   trainwreck
60
Yeah, I read about those yesterday. So bad!

Of course, Hollywood has been trying to remake Oldboy for awhile. I guess Justin Lin is out.

2008-11-11 11:08:33
63.   Tripon
Tim Lincecum wins NL Cy Young.

Also, for all the talk about C.C. NL Cy Young bid, he finishes 5th, behind Brad Lidge.

2008-11-11 11:09:23
64.   Tripon
And Bob posts the news before me. Is he a robot?
2008-11-11 11:10:48
65.   D4P
64
Bobot.
2008-11-11 11:11:12
66.   cargill06
For the 3rd straight year the Cy Young comes from the NL West, paving the way for Bills/Kershaw/a Dodgered CC next year.
2008-11-11 11:11:41
67.   Bob Timmermann
64
It's a holiday. I have the day off and need something to keep me amused while I do my laundry.
2008-11-11 11:13:57
68.   trainwreck
60
Tatum Bell is once again a Bronco.
2008-11-11 11:14:42
69.   Tripon
Will Smith's son, Jaden, will appear in a remake of Karate Kid, written just for him.

The 10-year-old - who's currently a martial arts practitioner - starred with his dad in 2006's The Pursuit of Happyness.

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/will-smiths-son-to-remake-karate-kid/15251

2008-11-11 11:16:39
70.   trainwreck
69 meet 24 .
2008-11-11 11:16:52
71.   Kevin Lewis
How is "Ng" pronounced?
2008-11-11 11:17:19
72.   Kevin Lewis
69

I will not be seeing that remake.

2008-11-11 11:18:00
73.   Bob Timmermann
71
It's sort of like "Ang"
2008-11-11 11:18:00
74.   Eric Stephen
71
I always like to sound it out like the last syllable of Dr. J's name when announced in Philly.
2008-11-11 11:19:29
75.   Marty
71 I believe like "Eng"
2008-11-11 11:21:04
76.   Bob Timmermann
We only need an "Ong" and "Ung" to make the set complete.
2008-11-11 11:21:27
77.   Kevin Lewis
I just had a student with that last name tell us it is pronounced "Um"
2008-11-11 11:22:36
78.   Bob Timmermann
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/la/community/executives/ng.html
2008-11-11 11:25:27
79.   bhsportsguy
67 Why is the library closed today?
Do I have to pay a fine if I return my book on holiday?
I wanted to take my children to the library on their day off from school but it was closed, why?

Just want to get Bob ready for the calls tomorrow.

2008-11-11 11:25:45
80.   Disabled List
Congrats to Timmeh. Definitely the right choice.

I really wish he wasn't on the Giants.

2008-11-11 11:26:11
81.   Bob Timmermann
79
Why did all of your signs have a superfluous apostrophe in "Veterans Day?"
2008-11-11 11:26:53
82.   underdog
68 Hah hah, I know. Hopefully everyone will keep their luggage protected. ;-) Maybe 2nd time's the charm with him. He has talent, just erratic. Has to be better than PJ Pope.
2008-11-11 11:27:24
83.   Marty
78 But is the A pronounced like Range, Rang or Wrong?
2008-11-11 11:29:00
84.   trainwreck
The local library is only down the street from me. For some reason I see a lot of people show up there late at night. All kinds of greasy stuff must be going on.
2008-11-11 11:29:15
85.   Eric Stephen
83
I think we should go with Kim Ainge from now on, just to avoid confusion. :)

Except I don't megaloathe Kim Ng.

2008-11-11 11:30:17
86.   LAT
71. While were at at, how is "Kuo" pronounced?

(Just kidding)

2008-11-11 11:30:34
87.   Kevin Lewis
http://inogolo.com/pronunciation/Ng

More like "mmm"

2008-11-11 11:33:30
88.   Disabled List
Pronounce "Ng" like the suffix "-ing", except without the "i".

This has been my helpful contribution to the discussion.

2008-11-11 11:34:32
89.   Xeifrank
Glad to see the Dodgers new head of security is a Saluki.
vr, Xei
2008-11-11 11:34:34
90.   Bob Timmermann
84
Could be an AA meeting.
2008-11-11 11:35:11
91.   D4P
Pronounce "Ng" like the name "Benji", except without the "B".
2008-11-11 11:35:46
92.   trainwreck
90
Library is not open. And it is at 11 or 12 oclock at night. I am pretty sure people just go behind the library to do stuff.
2008-11-11 11:36:35
93.   LAT
25. If Traders Joe's goes under its we are in serious trouble. TJ's is one of the best run companies anywhere. And they are 100% privetly owned by a German family.

The DHL ads on the bullpen always looked like a crime scene to me. I think they stood out for that reason.

We used to steal 76 antena balls and stick them in the spokes of our bike.

2008-11-11 11:36:42
94.   Xeifrank
86. Well, let me tell you. Back in the early Ming dynasty... :)
vr, Xei
2008-11-11 11:37:13
95.   Eric Stephen
Growing up, my local library had a slanted wall that was a heck of a lot of fun to run up and down on outside.
2008-11-11 11:37:49
96.   Gen3Blue
Is that a(in Ang) long or short?
2008-11-11 11:38:20
97.   Terry A
I believe it's pronounced nuh-GOO-yay.

It's French, I think.

2008-11-11 11:38:43
98.   Bob Timmermann
92
In that case, welcome to Needle Park.
2008-11-11 11:39:55
99.   D4P
Among grocery stores in the US, Trader Joe's is ranked as the nation's 4th healthiest, behind Whole Foods (yay!), Safeway (squeeze me? baking powder?), and Harris Teeter.

http://tinyurl.com/6ct35s

2008-11-11 11:41:15
100.   trainwreck
99
Safeway??? I can't get 100 different kinds of potato chips at Trader Joes.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-11-11 11:43:15
101.   Tripon
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8782314/Rockies-not-done-dealing-after-Holliday-trade?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49

Rosenthal thinks the Rockies are going to flip Gonzales and Street to other teams.

2008-11-11 11:43:28
102.   Jim Hitchcock
98 Should we be panicking?
2008-11-11 11:43:47
103.   underdog
98 That just makes me panic.

(early Pacino, gotta love it!)

2008-11-11 11:44:02
104.   underdog
D'oh! Jim, grrrrr. ;-)
2008-11-11 11:44:16
105.   Tripon
92 Are libraries always filled with such illegal activity?
2008-11-11 11:44:17
106.   Tripon
92 Are libraries always filled with such illegal activity?
2008-11-11 11:46:15
107.   trainwreck
Those Reds are smart. Replace Patterson with Taveras.
2008-11-11 11:47:01
108.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I knew a guy with the last name Ng, and he pronounced it as in 88 . I think it is pronounced differently depending on where the name comes from. Kim Ng is vietnamese, right?
2008-11-11 11:49:53
109.   Jim Hitchcock
104 By () much!
2008-11-11 11:50:34
110.   D4P
There is a physics professor at UNC who's last name is Ng, and his chosen "English" name is Jack.
2008-11-11 11:51:09
111.   Jon Weisman
One time I was at a Louisiana gas station and the cashier looked at my credit card and asked me how to pronounce my first name.
2008-11-11 11:51:09
112.   Tripon
107 Especially when the Dodgers are perfectly willing to trade Juan Pierre.
2008-11-11 11:51:11
113.   Sushirabbit
"Ng's primary responsibilities are to assist General Manager Ned Colletti in player acquisitions and contract negotiations in addition to coordinating player transactions" ... was she doing that in November 2006?
2008-11-11 11:52:58
114.   trainwreck
108
She is Chinese.
2008-11-11 11:57:30
115.   Eric Stephen
111
Wow.
2008-11-11 12:01:03
116.   underdog
111 {summons ghost of Bill Hicks to revive his routine about the South...}
2008-11-11 12:01:56
117.   Kevin Lewis
111

I laughed out loud in my office over that one.

So, this Thanksgiving is the first time my wife and I will not be traveling for a holiday. It will also be the first turkey I will cook, and this is what I plan to do (minus the gravy recipe, we have our own)

http://www.nakedwhiz.com/madmaxturkey.htm

2008-11-11 12:02:28
118.   underdog
Seriously man, Ned needs to get on the horn with Cincy and cut off that possibility. "I'll see your Taveras and raise you a Juan of a kind."
2008-11-11 12:06:43
119.   Louis in SF
Any chance Ned could convince Cincy to trade Brandon Phillips for JP? (LOL) I do wonder what we could get for JP from Cincy.
2008-11-11 12:07:10
120.   Jon Weisman
A recent Molly Knight blog item had me looking up Ben Folds on Wikipedia. Turns out he went to R.J. Reynolds High. But no, it's the other R.J.
2008-11-11 12:08:23
121.   OhioBlues12
I still say JP to Cincy for Bronson Arroyo is a fair deal, maybe with us adding a Troncoso or someone like that.
2008-11-11 12:08:47
122.   fanerman
I thought it was something like an "ong"... I don't know.
2008-11-11 12:10:02
123.   underdog
121 Me too. Well, you're in Ohio, get cracking on that! Lay the groundwork. ;-)
2008-11-11 12:10:57
124.   bhsportsguy
111 I was asked for my passport when I checked into a hotel in 1991, I gave him my California Driver's License and asked the desk clerk if Californians were allowed in New York City.

That same trip, many residents of our nation's capital asked me how did I like the United States?

2008-11-11 12:14:30
125.   OhioBlues12
123 - I've got Jocketty on the phone now and he is intrigued by this Juan Pierre fellow. He wants to know if he runs fast and I told him he is the fastest.

Seriously, if you look at their contracts, they are nearly the same in overall dollars.

2008-11-11 12:15:39
126.   Bob Timmermann
124
I see you've mastered the language well.

Good for you!

2008-11-11 12:17:17
127.   Disabled List
117 That's not a bad recipe, but I'm a big believer in brining overnight. No dry turkey for me.

I've used Alton Brown's turkey recipe with very successful results in the past:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/good-eats-roast-turkey-recipe/index.html

2008-11-11 12:22:07
128.   Jim Hitchcock
117 ,127 Okay, that's it. Turkey dogs for lunch for me.
2008-11-11 12:22:28
129.   trainwreck
I want to try a fried turkey for Thanksgiving.
2008-11-11 12:22:37
130.   fanerman
127 That looks good...
2008-11-11 12:22:44
131.   Eric Stephen
125
First of all, what Dodger fan wouldn't want Arroyo for Pierre? However, I just can't fathom that Cincinnati would make that deal.

We are much more likely to have to take a problem contract back in return (like an Eric Chavez or Dontrelle Willis). Arroyo has too much on-field value to be had in a Pierre trade.

2008-11-11 12:23:04
132.   fanerman
Popeye's is selling Cajun Turkey these days.
2008-11-11 12:26:57
133.   underdog
I'd take Chavez for Pierre, too, then. Don't think the A's wouldn't do it though, even to get rid of Chavez.
2008-11-11 12:27:53
134.   trainwreck
Beane has said the only two position players set in stone for him are Chavez and Ellis.
2008-11-11 12:30:41
135.   bhsportsguy
USC wil probably have to beat BYU in the playoffs this weekend to advance.

In womens soccer.

USC is a 4th seed but will be at BYU for the first 2 rounds.

UCLA, North Carolina, Stanford and Notre Dame were all named No. 1 seeds, the womens soccer final four is held in North Carolina.

2008-11-11 12:32:56
136.   cargill06
135 Womans soccer? Really?
2008-11-11 12:33:40
137.   OhioBlues12
131 - I think you are selling Pierre short there. I mean he will at least show up and play, which is a lot more than can be said about either of Chavez or Willis.

Also, from Cincy's perspective they have an OF of Bruce and . . .? They have some good pitchers in Harang, Volquez, Cueto, and Bailey still has some upside, so I would bet Arroyo could be had. Admittedly we would have to include an arm like Troncoso or I am pretty sure Hu would seal it since they really need a SS.

2008-11-11 12:34:21
138.   bhsportsguy
If Chavez isn't traded by the end of the 2009 season, he will be a 5/10 player and will have the right to approve any trade. He has a limited no-trade clause right now but the Dodgers are not on the list.

Chavez is owed $23M for 2009-10 and has a club option for 2012 for $12.5M (or a $3M buyout). Juan Pierre is making 10/10/8.5 for the next 3 years.

2008-11-11 12:35:05
139.   bhsportsguy
135 We didn't get 100+ national championships by just playing football.
2008-11-11 12:35:45
140.   capdodger
32

Here in DC, people look at Boeing or EADS ads on the Yellow Line between National and Pentagon, and they have just that thought.

2008-11-11 12:38:00
141.   Harold M Johnson
138 So Pierre is 10/10/8.5 and Chavez is owed 11.5/11.5 and then either 3m to buyout o3 12.5 for a 3rd year?
2008-11-11 12:39:54
142.   cargill06
I am pretty sure Hu would seal it since they really need a SS.

What about an old ex-Pony league teammate and High School foe of mine, Chris Valaika?

2008-11-11 12:40:44
143.   fanerman
32 That ad isn't there for baseball fans. It's there for baseball players. They figure A-Rod makes enough money to buy a Boeing jet on an impulse purchase.
2008-11-11 12:44:42
144.   underdog
Not that it's worth all that much, but here's the MLBTR blogger's two cents, in his live chat going on right now:

[Comment From Tim Dierkes]
Hey man, it's yourself from the future. Future you already knows this answer, but which team do you think is going to have the best offseason? Worst offseason?

Tim: Best: Rays. Worst: Dodgers.

2008-11-11 12:45:32
145.   underdog
More:
Tim: Colletti has a bad free agent track record, and he seems likely to sign a SS, 3B, SP, maybe an OF.
2008-11-11 12:47:18
146.   Tripon
145 Ned Coletti can promote all four positions from within. Not that he won't, or should, but he can.

Well, he should promote SS, and 3B from within with Hu/DeJesus and DeWitt, and get C.C., and then figure out what to do for an OF.

2008-11-11 12:49:28
147.   bhsportsguy
146 Has Hu demonstrated that he can hit at the MLB level yet? DeJesus has had a pretty awful Arizona Fall League (he could be fatigued by this point but the reports were not great).
2008-11-11 12:49:32
148.   trainwreck
139
My cousin is a sophomore in high school and is being recruited to play womens soccer at UCLA.

I shall do my best to make sure she picks the right school. ; )

2008-11-11 12:51:24
149.   bhsportsguy
144 Not sure that is what I call hard hitting analysis. Most would say Ned has to sign at least one infielder, an outfielder (unless Pierre/Jones is going to be the guy) and at least one starting pitcher.
2008-11-11 12:51:36
150.   Eric Stephen
148
Free tuition trumps all allegiances in my book.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-11-11 12:57:36
151.   trainwreck
150
I am guessing she will choose between Cal and UCLA.
2008-11-11 12:57:44
152.   Bob Timmermann
The UCLA women's soccer team is the Buffalo Bills of that sport.
2008-11-11 12:57:56
153.   Tripon
147 DeJesus then crushed two homers in his first game in the Dominican Winter League. I think he'll be okay. If its true that the Dodgers are facing a cash crunch, then they should try to promote from within as much as they can.

As for Hu, I don't know if he can ever hit major league pitching, but I think he can hold down the fort for at least a half of a season if DeJesus needs more seasoning, or takes the 2nd base job.

2008-11-11 12:59:16
154.   trainwreck
I also found out that my cousins' high schools cost more a year than it did for me to go to UCSB.
2008-11-11 13:21:22
155.   delias man
153 What team is Ivan on?
2008-11-11 13:21:22
156.   jasonungar07
Were looking at Orlando Cabrrera, Ray Durham and Ben Sheets for a heck of alot of money. Pierre in LF. Maybe a reliever or two and go get em.
2008-11-11 13:22:56
157.   jasonungar07
nothing in Neds past (blocking Loney, Kemp, Bills, Ethier, LaRoache) leads me to think he will give spots away.
2008-11-11 13:23:15
158.   underdog
149 It's really the opposite of hard-hitting analysis. Not sure why I even bothered posting it other than for amusement. Not that he's not an intelligent guy, but ultimately he really doesn't know more than we do, and about the Dodgers, probably a little less.
2008-11-11 13:23:51
159.   underdog
154 Whoa. My h.s. was free!
2008-11-11 13:25:19
160.   Eric Stephen
156
Is there a link for that, or just speculation?
2008-11-11 13:25:39
161.   trainwreck
159
Carondelet and De La Salle.
2008-11-11 13:28:56
162.   ToyCannon
155
He's playing in the Puerto Rican League and is off to a great start. One name who might factor in 2009 is Jerome Williams when discussing AAA pitchers who are depth insurance.

Xavier Paul is doing some damage in the Mexican Winter League. Jamie Hoffman has been our best hitter in the AFL.

Don't forget to vote for Prospect Number Nine over at True Blue. The vote for 7 was a nail biter.
http://www.truebluela.com/2008/11/10/658346/prospect-number-nine

2008-11-11 13:31:04
163.   arborial
155 Carolina, I believe

Also I have tried the Alton Brown Brined Turkey and I approve of that recipe, good results.

When I have the time, I am partial to making the Turducken

http://tinyurl.com/prudhommeturducken

The best part is that the fat from the duck percolates through the entire creation for maximum succulency.

2008-11-11 13:31:53
164.   Eric Stephen
163
Maximum Succulency would be a great band name.
2008-11-11 13:34:42
165.   ToyCannon
156
Can't see Durham getting much of a contract. He would be a decent plan B for a small investment. You can't count on Abreu but on the other hand you don't want to bring in someone that will block him if he proves to be healthy and productive. Durham fits that bill. He was alot more productive then Jeff Kent last year. Other then 2007 he gives you better then league average OBP.
Some of our positions are going to require PVL because those are the guys who are free agents.
2008-11-11 13:36:32
166.   Tripon
155 Sorry, its the Puerto Rico league, not the Dominican Republic. And I can't find the team he's playing with. Diamond posted the news a few days earlier.

- Dodgers minor league player of the year Ivan DeJesus Jr. left the Arizona Fall League early to play in the Puerto Rican Winter League. Yesterday, the Puerto Rico native homered twice while hitting leadoff for Carolina. The shortstop prospect didn't fare as well in Arizona, hitting .254 in 16 games.

Oh, there it is. The 'Carolina Giants'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_Professional_Baseball_League

http://blogs.pe.com/prosports/mlb/dodgers/

2008-11-11 13:37:45
167.   Tripon
162 I thought Jerome Williams was a minor league FA? Can't see the Dodgers being that interested in him outside of a longman relief role. Maybe as a replacement for Park, who said he's not coming back to the Dodgers.
2008-11-11 13:37:46
168.   ToyCannon
The advantage of frying the turkey after it has been properly brined is the fun of frying a Turkey. It is a big show when you lower that bird into the boiling cauldron of peanut oil.

A little overspill and flash fire also makes for great entertainment, unless it gets out of hand. Then fun to turns to tragedy. Be careful out there.

2008-11-11 13:37:53
169.   Kevin Lewis
127

I failed to mention that I was planning on doing the Alton brine recipe prior to the BBQ

2008-11-11 13:41:47
170.   ToyCannon
167
At every point each team will sign quite a few NRI for depth. I''m only talking about Williams as depth insurance much like Jason Johnson was last year.

PUERTO RICAN LEAGUE

Hitters ave gm ab r h 2b 3b hr bi
Ivan De Jesus .400 3 15 5 6 1 1 2 6

Pitchers w-l era gm gs in h bb so
Andres Santiago 0-0 0.00 1 0 1 1 0 0
Jerome Williams 0-1 2.08 1 1 4 4 0 2

2008-11-11 13:43:01
171.   Tripon
170 Is there any reason why DeJesus preformed poorly in the AFL?
2008-11-11 13:44:53
172.   Eric Stephen
167
Maybe as a replacement for Park, who said he's not coming back to the Dodgers

I believe all Park has said is that he'd prefer to start.

2008-11-11 13:47:50
173.   Tripon
172 - At his homecoming press conference, Chan Ho Park announced that he was unlikely to return to the Dodgers and also unlikely to play for South Korea in the World Baseball Classic. Park wants to be a starting pitcher again and believes the Dodgers would return him to a swingman role. Assuming he gets a one-year deal to start for a new team, he'd like to focus on that rather than pitch in the WBC.

Doesn't sound like Park expects to be back, and wouldn't if he's not allowed to start.

2008-11-11 13:48:55
174.   arborial
171 best explanation I have heard is that he already played a full season so the downturn was due to overall fatigue. but that doesn't explain why he is tearing it up now without a break in between, I believe he even left the AFL early to head to Puerto Rico. So maybe it's just the home cookin'
2008-11-11 13:51:16
175.   ToyCannon
171
Maybe he didn't want to be there since he was planning on playing in the Puerto Rican Winter League.
2008-11-11 13:52:07
176.   trainwreck
171
I think people are making a big deal about a small sample size.
2008-11-11 13:57:11
177.   ToyCannon
Probably, but if he had hit, we'd be excited over the SSS. The bigger issue was the scouting reports about how he went about his business.
2008-11-11 14:03:05
178.   bhsportsguy
176 Has Tracy decided that he has nothing to say about last Saturday's game, no football recap yet. Probably doesn't want to have repeat himself about this year being a rebuilding year.
2008-11-11 14:05:09
179.   trainwreck
178
More people were probably interested in a BIOLA game recap anyways.
2008-11-11 14:10:38
180.   trainwreck
178
Do you get ESPNU?
2008-11-11 14:13:40
181.   bhsportsguy
180 Yes, but I'm going to the game anyway, are you coming down for a game?
2008-11-11 14:15:27
182.   JoeyP
Sheets is really good & is in his prime. But he's been hurt.

2005- 22 starts
2006- 17 starts
2007- 24 starts
2008- 31 starts

He'd be a nice consolation prize if CC goes elsewhere. If the Dodgers miss on CC, they should go for either Sheets/Burnett on 3yr deals (since they apparently cant offer more than 3yrs this offseason).

2008-11-11 14:17:27
183.   JoeyP
Of course Burnett's an injury risk as well. The most interesting thing I see about AJ Burnett's career is that the year the Marlins won the World Series (2003), the team got nothing (4 starts) out of him.
2008-11-11 14:18:32
184.   delias man
Thanks - I have been watching the DR games on ESPND the last 3 weeks. The rosters are dreadful, and barren of young Dodgers this year. I keep looking for Abreu.
2008-11-11 14:20:18
185.   delias man
I also did not even know that the PR league was back in business this year.
2008-11-11 14:21:28
186.   Jacob Burch
142 That last name jumped out pretty quick, then I remembered where you went to school.

I can't seem to remember if I graduated with him, a sibling, or just got so bored at my brother's games at Hart field that I have memorized a large portion of the wooden team signs.

2008-11-11 14:22:55
187.   trainwreck
181
I am temping now, so basically once I get hired on full-time I will.
2008-11-11 14:28:20
188.   Linkmeister
Back to Union 76 for a moment, I remember the lithographs (?) they used to give out. They were 8 x 10 replicas of Dodger players' headshots in oil (paint! paint!), with smaller "action" paintings as insets. Statistics on the back.

I don't know how long the company gave them out, but it lasted at least through 1962 when we left LA.

2008-11-11 14:47:32
189.   cargill06
When PECOTA does their yearly player projections, do they project the traditional counting stats? (HR, RBI, Hits, etc.) How much does it cost? When do they project?
2008-11-11 14:48:53
190.   trainwreck
Since the Yankees are ready to offer CC the biggest pitching contract in history, maybe we should shift our focus to Sheets now.
2008-11-11 15:09:54
191.   Tripon
>According to the San Jose Mercury News, Raiders offensive coordinator Greg Knapp has been stripped of play-calling duties.
>The newspaper reports that "coach Tom Cable presumably is in charge of the play-calling." Lane Kiffin was criticized for his play-calling prior to being fired, but the Raiders' 19.5 points per game with him at the helm looks like an offensive explosion compared to their 7.0 points per game under Cable.

Al Davis might as well coach this team personally.

2008-11-11 15:31:53
192.   El Lay Dave
The Union 76 commercials are a great blast from the past. One thing no one commented on was the station bell ringing when the car drove to the pumps over the hose, alerting the attendants (!) that someone might need service. Man, I had forgotten all about the hose and the bell.
2008-11-11 15:31:55
193.   LAT
Before you fry a turkey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqemKVTf_38

2008-11-11 15:45:11
194.   Marty
I'm going to a friend's house for a Thanksgiving party. There will be at least 14 people. They always make two turkeys, one smoked and one roasted.

Whenever I make turkey, I use this incredibly simple recipe that makes a perfect turkey with very crispy skin (which I love):

Put oven rack in lowest position and preheat oven to 450°F. Rinse turkey inside and out, then pat dry. Sprinkle turkey cavities and skin with salt and pepper. Fold neck skin under body and secure with metal skewers, then tie drumsticks together with kitchen string and tuck wings under body.

Put turkey on rack in roasting pan. Add 1 cup water to pan and roast without basting, rotating pan halfway through roasting, until thermometer inserted into fleshy part of thighs (test both thighs; do not touch bones) registers 170°F, 2 1/4 to 2 3/4 hours.

That's it. no brining, no basting, no tenting, basically no nothing. And you get a perfect bird.

2008-11-11 15:56:24
195.   D4P
My wife has decided that we will be having a vegan Thanksgiving feast.
2008-11-11 15:59:03
196.   Tripon
195 Your wife must hate you.
2008-11-11 16:00:33
197.   trainwreck
195
The words vegan and feast should not be in the same sentence.

And I love vegetables.

2008-11-11 16:01:18
198.   Tripon
197 The absence of cheese and butter in any meal is a crime.
2008-11-11 16:02:31
199.   KG16
the last couple of years, my folks have done one fried turkey and one roasted turkey. i like frying the one turkey - although this year my dad has got an "oil-less" fryer, which I don't quite understand the point of. it's really not that difficult to do: don't over fill the tank, don't let kids or pets near the open flame, and take the bird out when the recipe/instructions say to.
2008-11-11 16:05:09
200.   KG16
199 - for the record, dad fries, mom roasts. and there are rarely any left overs that survive the weekend.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-11-11 16:09:01
201.   underdog
Anyone ever tried Tofurkey? I actually like some Tofu dishes, especially fried up, and in Asian cooking, but am very skeptical that that is anything other than nasty.
2008-11-11 16:10:11
202.   Louis in SF
188

For further Union Oil memorbelia I still have two plastic 8oz cups, one is a Sandy Koufax the other is a Willie Davis!

2008-11-11 16:13:21
203.   Brent Knapp
I drive along LAX every day and I saw the Texas Rangers jet parked there. The other side was painted for the Dallas Stars. Do many teams share planes like that?

I also don't quite understand the concept that teams that are trading within their division want "more". It seems like a good play to trade a player like Peavy to the dodgers, who, after a couple years will begin to eat up a large portion of the dodgers payroll. At the same time, the padres are taking dodgers prospects who would be useful to the dodgers in the next 2-4 years. Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I haven't explained myself very well.

2008-11-11 16:15:05
204.   fanerman
189 PECOTA projections can be found at Baseball Prospectus. The price well... depends. Look here:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/subscriptions/

I have no idea when they come out.

2008-11-11 16:19:06
205.   bhsportsguy
204 They come out around the same time of the book, February.
2008-11-11 16:22:47
206.   Eric Stephen
201
I tried a bite of it a couple years back. The best way to describe it is like a hickory farms beef stick, only the "beef" is old bologna.
2008-11-11 16:25:53
207.   underdog
206 Mmmmm...ph! Mmmph!

Pass. I could probably do a vegetarian Thanksgiving, but not vegan. I love stuffing and yams and all the sides.

2008-11-11 16:26:53
208.   Brent Knapp
117 To Kevin and anyone else interested, FWIW the best turkey I have ever had in my life was deep fried. It's really easy, can be done in under an hour and is delicious.
2008-11-11 16:28:14
209.   ToyCannon
Do you buy your Turkeys frozen from the local grocer or fresh from your local butcher?
2008-11-11 16:28:56
210.   Jim Hitchcock
203 I still remember the old Dodgers plane. And, ahem, the Playboy plane, too...IIRC it was a 727.
2008-11-11 16:31:13
211.   Kevin Lewis
I will probably buy mine frozen. Trader Joe's sells moderately sized ones, correct?
2008-11-11 16:31:45
212.   Kevin Lewis
208

I don't doubt that deep fried turkey would be good. I just don't have the means to make it.

2008-11-11 16:32:12
213.   Jim Hitchcock
Underdog...I just ordered a Cot Tent from Cabelas. Built in cot, sits about six inches off the ground, and most importantly, has a cup holder.

Can't wait to go camping. By that time. it'll be baseball season again.

2008-11-11 16:34:32
214.   underdog
213 Oh wow, that sounds luxurious! How heavy? Best for car camping I assume? (Which is fine by me since I don't pack camp all that much.)

--

Wow, I just read that the Padres "broke up" with Trevor Hoffman via... fax. Now that's class!

2008-11-11 16:37:12
215.   D4P
I can't remember all the vegan dishes on the menu, but they sounded very good. I don't really need butter, especially if we're not having rolls. And cheese isn't really a big part of my typical Thanksgiving meal, anyway.

The main dish is not a turkey substitute, but some kind of lentil loaf or something. Can't remember exactly.

2008-11-11 16:38:48
216.   fanerman
216 Is Mrs. D4P a vegan?
2008-11-11 16:43:00
217.   D4P
216
No, neither of us are. We're both mostly-vegetarian. But for some reason she wants to try a bunch of vegan recipes, which is fine with me.
2008-11-11 16:43:40
218.   Kevin Lewis
216

You are asking yourself?

2008-11-11 16:43:50
219.   Jim Hitchcock
214 Yeah, it's 38 lbs., so backpacking is out. Neat device, though...you basically just unfold the legs and it's set up.

And if you add wheels it becomes an R.V. :)

2008-11-11 16:46:21
220.   Tripon
203 Doesn't Hicks own both the Rangers and Stars? It shouldn't be a scheduling conflict unless one of the teams makes the playoffs since NHL regular season ends before April, and starts in Oct, and Baseball starts in April, and ends in Sept.

And the thinking behind trading in division is that you're going to see the player regularly, so you'll want to show that you're a better team because of the trade I guess.

Except the Padres are going to lose 95 games anyway, and they're not going to be in contention, so asking 50% more from the Dodgers instead of the Braves or Cubs is short sighted.

2008-11-11 16:51:38
221.   Kevin Lewis
220

Especially if a reasonable offer from the Dodger would net you better prospects than the Braves or Cubs

2008-11-11 17:17:08
222.   underdog
Old friend Brett Butler is now the manager of the Reno Aces (the DBacks' AAA affiliate).

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9333033&nav=8faO

2008-11-11 17:30:46
223.   Marty
Micheal Lewis goes back to Wall Street to find out what happened:
http://tinyurl.com/58ztnx
2008-11-11 17:43:53
224.   underdog
I believe Bad Altitude is not happy with the Holliday trade.
2008-11-11 17:49:31
225.   fanerman
224 Really? I had a hard time picking up on his emotions in that last piece.
2008-11-11 17:56:22
226.   Gen3Blue
221 I don't think we have much to give in the way of prospects.

I'm generally around if Boras needs to be criticized.

2008-11-11 17:56:52
227.   LogikReader
Joel Meyers says: No more Lakers tape delay on KCAL!! Woo hoo!!

As you were...

2008-11-11 18:04:31
228.   scareduck
208 - turkey deep fryers: almost as much fun as lighting fires with liquid oxygen!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqemKVTf_38

2008-11-11 18:13:35
229.   Tripon
Man, the guy who writes Bad Altitude is one depressing person. He's like Scarduck on steroids. =P
2008-11-11 18:30:36
230.   Jose Habib
I think that's the dad from Small Wonder in the first ad.
2008-11-11 18:33:18
231.   Tripon
On-base percentage is said to be a sticking point in the Reds' evaluation of Taveras. Reds general manager Walt Jocketty is said to value a center fielder who can hit leadoff with plus speed but is leery of Taveras' low on-base percentage. It was a mere .308 this year, when Taveras hit .251 and led the majors with 68 stolen bases. Taveras' career on-base percentage is .331.

I'm sure Red fans are utterly annoyed on Dodgers fans constantly trying to unload Juan Pierre on them. But JP does have a higher OPB over Taveras.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/nov/11/rockies-atkins-interests-reds/?partner=RSS

2008-11-11 18:43:15
232.   scareduck
229 - I'm only depressing because I care!
2008-11-11 18:52:43
233.   Indiana Jon
111 I've had that happen before too.
2008-11-11 19:15:41
234.   Tripon
233 How do you pronounce "Indiana Jon"?
2008-11-11 19:24:31
235.   Indiana Jon
234 It's a cross between Ng and Kuo.
2008-11-11 19:30:15
236.   Eric Stephen
Trevor Ariza is awesome.

I turned on the Laker game and they were down 9 midway through the 3rd, and they are now up 2 early in the 4th. I'm liking this defense thing.

2008-11-11 19:30:54
237.   underdog
I {heart} Trevor Ariza!

Lakers-Mavs, great game -- it's on NBATV so I can enjoy the game on the telly.

I didn't realize they (NBATV and NBA.com) hold fan voting on weekly games, letting fans decide which game they should cover next week.

2008-11-11 19:33:12
238.   underdog
Oh good Lord. I just looked at the schedule and see that UCSB has to play North Carolina again this season. At least it's at home this time. So they'll only lose by 25-30. :-/ Should still be exciting opportunity though.
2008-11-11 19:35:38
239.   Eric Stephen
237
The fan vote is a great thing. I plan to vote on any Laker road games I otherwise wouldn't get to see in SD (I get the home games).
2008-11-11 19:38:08
240.   Eric Stephen
I like when Jason Kidd is guarding Kobe.
2008-11-11 19:41:41
241.   Eric Stephen
As much as I detested the 2008 Finals, I still like Kevin Garnett and the NBA TV commercial piecing together his interview clips leading up to the title is a great ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llmi2o7sWh8

2008-11-11 19:46:04
242.   Eric Stephen
We were talking about ads earlier today, and I just got reminded again watching the Lakers/Mavs game...how in the hell can Lumber Liquidators afford all these ads? They have behind the plates on seemingly every televised MLB game, and many NBA games.
2008-11-11 19:50:23
243.   underdog
I like the fan vote thing, too.

I think I'll throw it off by voting on the Heat-Wizards game. (j/k)

241 No, it's inherently evil. Evil! Eevilll!

2008-11-11 19:55:34
244.   Tripon
236 237 The Lakers are going to do the smart thing and resign Ariza and let Odom walk right?

Why Ariza isn't starting over Vlad Rad, I have no idea.

2008-11-11 19:55:37
245.   kinbote
OT--I paid a visit to my father-in-law today, a multiply decorated Vietnam Vet, as a meager way to pay tribute to his years of service. He made me watch "Life on Mars" and I enjoyed it. It's like an HBO reunion show (two characters from "The Wire" + Chris Moltisanti) but it works. I think it helps not to have seen the original. I trust you have enjoyed this note.
2008-11-11 19:59:11
246.   Eric Stephen
244
I think they like Ariza & Farmar providing energy off the bench. I think as the season goes on, the minutes for both will go up.
2008-11-11 20:04:09
247.   Eric Stephen
Dallas 2-5
San Antonio 2-4

Life is good.

Tomorrow in New Orleans will be tough, but bring it on!

2008-11-11 20:19:10
248.   oshea2002
I'm really starting to love Trevor Ariza.

Not sure if this has been discussed, but the Times has a Dodgers/Manny update - assuming there's truth to it - I can't imagine 3 and 60 will get it done, and I'm not sure why they are "pulling the offer" on Thursday.

2008-11-11 20:22:14
249.   Eric Stephen
248
The free agency period opens Thursday at 9pm (midnight Friday on the east coast), after which any team may offer contracts. The Dodgers probably are using the pulled offer as a threat to try to get the deal done before then.

But, it's really just for show since the club knows Manny is going to test the waters anyway.

2008-11-11 20:26:38
250.   Eric Stephen
248
So now the offer is known:

2009: $15m
2010: $22.5m
2011: $22.5m option ($7.5m buyout)

I don't know what kind of market will materialize for Manny, but that's not a bad offer. Maybe a guaranteed 3rd year would seal it.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-11-11 20:29:51
251.   Eric Stephen
This was also in the Times article:

Meanwhile, renovations of the Dodger Stadium clubhouses, loge section, video scoreboard and sound system planned for this winter won't take place for another year.

The Dodgers had wanted the clubhouses to be finished in time for the semifinals and finals of the World Baseball Classic in March. Dennis Mannion, the team's chief operating officer, blamed the delay on the need to reconfigure the field level concession stands, as well as construction of the spring-training facility in Glendale, Ariz

Sounds like more ammo for the McCourt has no money argument.

2008-11-11 20:30:35
252.   Icaros
Boy, he'd have to be really terrible (or catastrophically injured) in 2010 for them to eat a $7.5 million buyout.
2008-11-11 20:31:51
253.   Eric Stephen
252
Or he could be placed on the 60-day DL and leave the team in a pennant race.
2008-11-11 20:37:54
254.   Tripon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIZ_5d6ylZM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrLCNx3hZXM

Skirting rule 5(but not really.) Meet Obama-kun, and Hillary-chan, along with Papa Bill Clinton.

2008-11-11 20:43:03
255.   ucladodger
Ariza's +/- numbers have been out of this world the last week. Led the team with a +16 tonight. Led the team with a +34 against the Rockets. Led the team with a +25 against the Clippers. The block he had against Stack tonight is one of the most athletic plays I've ever seen. The side angle was showed just how nuts it was. I still cant believe the Magic gave him up for Brian Cook and Evans. Wow.
2008-11-11 20:53:43
256.   Eric Stephen
255
The block he had against Stack tonight is one of the most athletic plays I've ever seen

It made me think of this play 22 seasons ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWAlr3RN0DE (skip to about the 1:25 mark)

While looking for this video, I found a classic 1980s NBA Swat Team video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhcYsiWv7bg

2008-11-11 21:28:50
257.   Eric Stephen
Trevor Hoffman, or his agent, doubts the existence of the Florida Marlins:

-------------
"Trevor was really upset," Thurman said. "He wanted to be a Padre for his entire career. He didn't want to leave San Diego. It's upsetting to him."
-------------

http://tinyurl.com/55gcve

Hoffman's first 28 career games and 35.2 IP were with Florida in 1993, before being brought to San Diego in the Sheffield deal.

2008-11-11 21:37:18
258.   Eric Stephen
Curt Schilling looks to pull a Clemens in 2009, possibly playing a half season and possibly for Arizona:

http://tinyurl.com/68us47

2008-11-11 21:38:12
259.   Louis in SF
250

I wish it was that simple, actually if it was that simple I would say 4 years, if you knew Boras would take it. The problem is now Boras is going to take Manny to market, and the real question is can he get Manny 5 years or even 6. My guess is he might be able to get 5 but not 6, and then the Dodgers have to figure out how far they want to go and if Manny really wants to stay in LA....Is anyone surprised that the Dodgers have not even made an offer to Lowe?

2008-11-11 21:44:22
260.   Eric Stephen
259
I guess I'm just skeptical of the interest of the other potential clubs in the Manny sweepstakes:

Yankees - seem more interested in Teixeira and starting pitchers
Mets - Minaya has publicly stated disinterest in Manny
Red Sox - no chance in Hell
Phillies - can they afford to add payroll? There are at roughly $105m already without a LF
Angels - is Manny a Scioscia-type guy?
Giants - I'll believe it when I see it

That leaves the Cubs and the Dodgers. I don't think it will take much more than 3/$60 to sign him.

2008-11-11 21:47:01
261.   Eric Stephen
It's certainly a long time between now at Opening Day, but it doesn't look like Dexter Fowler is in the Rockies' 2009 plans to start:

...At the suggestion of the club, Ryan Spilborghs will play in Mexico next month to prepare to be the Rockies' starter in center field next season, another indication that a Taveras trade is a certainty

http://tinyurl.com/5embbk

Looks like the Rox OF will be Gonzalez-Spillborghs-Hawpe from left to right.

2008-11-11 21:55:20
262.   KG16
255 - Ariza is becoming one of my favorite players on this stacked team.
2008-11-11 22:08:52
263.   Dodgers49
251 Sounds like more ammo for the McCourt has no money argument.

I was wondering about the same thing. Why else would construction in Arizona affect construction at Dodger Stadium?

as well as construction of the spring-training facility in Glendale, Ariz.

2008-11-11 22:12:38
264.   Tripon
I find it ironic that baseball is trying to block Cuban, a man with actual money, it allows men like Moore with the Padres, and McCourt with the Dodgers, and the ownership with the D'Backs, run either franchises with virtually no payroll, or into so much debt that he can't increase payroll to better his team.
2008-11-11 22:18:01
265.   Tripon
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-clipperfyi12-2008nov12,0,32203.story

It says something that immediately after the Clippers staff heard rumors that the Clippers were shopping Kamen, that they quashed it as soon as possible.

...How are the Clippers more media savvy than the Dodgers?

2008-11-11 22:39:39
266.   Jon Weisman
264 - At some point, it really needs to be noted that the Dodger payroll has never really been higher than it was this year. True, the Dodgers gave up players instead of adding payroll at the deadline. But that has to be noted in the context of what the payroll already was.

McCourt has been making money hand over fist since buying the Dodgers. I don't know the state of his current finances, but I wouldn't assume that just because the Dodgers traded Carlos Santana or that they don't want to give Manny $120 million that they're broke.

Increasing the payroll has not been an issue with the Dodgers of late. Where that money has been spent - that's the main issue. But Andruw Jones was the definition of increasing the payroll.

2008-11-11 23:39:34
267.   LogikReader
It's funny to hear these reports of the Dodger brass leaving a 3 year, 60 million dollar deal for Manny on the table. A 3 year deal that is really a 2 year deal with an option.

This deal is not only insulting to Manny and Boras, it's insulting to us, the Dodger Fans. For all Manny did last year, is anyone here buying this as a legitimate offer, or just a big ruse?

I think it's a ruse. A weak offer shown just to give fans the false impression the Dodgers made a run at Manny when they really didn't.

I don't mind Manny walking and signing with another team, but I would have expected more of an offer when considering Manny's media value.

2008-11-12 01:22:54
268.   CanuckDodger
267 -- I strongly disagree with your take on the situation, outside of the part that implies that the Dodgers are not exactly lusting after Manny.

To begin, I object to your use of the term "insult." I don't believe anybody is being insulted -- not Manny, not Dodger fans. An insult is a gesture. I have a problem with the idea that contract offers should ever be considered in terms of gestures, be they positive or negative. Contract offers should be divorced from emotion, and completely about the non-public-relations aspects of an organization's interests. Neither players nor Dodger fans should be pandered to. You also refer to Manny's "media value." After I have said what I have about pandering to fans, you don't even want to know what I think about the idea of pandering to the media.

The truth is, Manny is a really bad "fit" with the Dodgers right now, and too few people seem to realize that. People say "Well, he's a big bat on a team that needs one and probably won't have one without him. So that makes him a perfect fit." But I'm sorry, that is too simplistic an analysis. Manny Ramirez is over-35 and an American League DH in all but name, and is looking for a long-term contract. That makes him far from being the kind of "package" (player plus deal sought) that any NL team should be interested in. And that is just NL teams in general. The Dodgers are a far poorer fit that most NL teams. Why? Because we already have FOUR starting outfielders, two of whom we could easily trade away but absolutely shouldn't trade, and two of whom we are stuck with even though we would like them to disappear.

Honestly, the 600 pound gorilla in the room that nobody wants to talk about, when it comes to the Dodgers and Manny, is the duo of Jones and Pierre. But as the Pushing Daisies' narrator likes to say, the facts are these: (1) Jones/Pierre won't be traded because nobody wants them or their contracts; (2) the Dodgers are not going to DFA them and eat their salaries; and (3) it will be incredibly awkward having even one of the high-paid players being a full-time bench player in 2009, let alone both of them. These are three facts that fans and media are completely in denial about. And the denial is understandable, because the difference between a line-up with Manny in it instead of either Pierre or Jones and a line-up with no Manny but Pierre or Jones is probably the difference between a line-up that is good and a line-up that is below average. What is the answer to that? A very uncomfortable one: the Dodgers made their bed, and now they have to sleep in it.

That the Dodgers offense is going to be somewhat weak in 2009 is something that we have to accept, if only because facing it will help focus our resolve to do what we really should be devoting our resources to this off-season: out-bidding the Yankees and every other potential suitor for C.C. Sabathia. Unlike our crowded outfield, we do have a vacancy open in our starting rotation, and given Billz, Kershaw, and McDonald, the slot that is open just happens to be one for a high-paid established ace. Unlike Manny, Sabathia is the perfect fit for the Dodgers right now. "Fit" is all about timing and circumstances.

Signing Sabathia would give us what I believe would be the most talented rotation in MLB, bar none. That would be the foundation for the pitching-and-defense strategy that we should pursue for 2009. Would we like to be a strong offensive team in 2009? No doubt, but as I have argued, the circumstances say we realistically can't be, so we should, for one year, till we are rid of the Jones' contract, embrace the 2003 Dodgers as a model. That team won 85 games -- more games than we won in 2008 with two months of Babe Ruth-level Manny. In an NL West that looks to be getting weaker before it gets stronger, 85 wins could put us into the playoffs, where our killer rotation would be more important than our offense anyway.

2008-11-12 05:01:08
269.   D4P
Depo has a new post up about Giles and Hoffman, in which he appears to reveal that he uses "RARP" (Runs Above Replacement, Position-Adjusted) to measure a player's offensive value.

Runs Above Replacement, Position-adjusted. A statistic that compares a hitter's Equivalent Run total to that of a replacement-level player who makes the same number of outs and plays the same position. A "replacement level" player is one who has .736 times as many EqR as the average for the position; that corresponds to a .351 winning percentage. Used when fielding data is unavailable.

2008-11-12 05:18:38
270.   D4P
Number of first 6 games of the season in which the Lakers gave up 100+ points:

Last season: 4
This season: 0

2008-11-12 05:26:06
271.   MollyKnight
I don't get this offer to Manny. We know Boras wants at least a four or five year deal so why make a 3-year offer? Do the Dodgers actually think they can get Boras to acquiesce to what THEY want? I don't think Manny will be back next year, and I think we'll all be sad.
2008-11-12 05:48:55
272.   D4P
Manny Ramirez is a player without a defensive position, who is very good at hitting.

Where I come from, we call such players "Persons who have been specifically authorized to hit, with no fielding responsibilities (other than maybe an occasional game at first base or left field, under dire conditions)", or "Designated hitters" for short.

As a National League team, the Dodgers don't really have much use for such a player over the next 4-6 years, unless he is willing to accept a few million bucks a year (or less) to sit on the bench and pinch-hit once in a while.

Designated hitters should not be given long-term, huge dollar contracts by National League teams, especially when they'll be almost 37 years old at the beginning of the contract and (presumably?) not using PEDs.

2008-11-12 06:29:53
273.   natepurcell
I'm down for trading for Uggla and putting him at 3rd.
2008-11-12 07:21:36
274.   Xeifrank
I think the 3-year deal offer to Manny is just part of the negotiation plan. Boras wants 6, which to me is even more insulting than the Dodgers offereing 3. The final number of years will likely be split down the middle. Boras will have to go to an AL club to get a 5th year imo. 3 years is a pretty safe contract length for an NL team, but I think it will take a solid 4 year deal. If some other NL/AL team offers Manny 5 years, then let him walk. Who are the Dodgers bidding against for Manny? Why offer the "big enchilada" so early in the process?
vr, Xei
2008-11-12 07:21:47
275.   ToyCannon
268
Yup

266
The finances for a number of strong companies last spring have changed dramatically. Just because the Dodgers went into 2008 with the highest payroll in their history means nothing when trying to construe what the current Dodger financial situation is. The Dodgers themselves may have made money for the McCourts but that does not mean they didn't try to use those profits for more gain and got burned.

It is quite telling to me that they could not get the lending to go forward with the capital improvements this winter. That would not have happened in the winter of 2007. Something has changed.

2008-11-12 07:25:35
276.   D4P
I like how Boras uses Bonds as an example of how a player who can still be productive into his 40s.
2008-11-12 07:33:03
277.   Jon Weisman
274 - You've anticpiated my next post.
2008-11-12 07:34:32
278.   D4P
276cont.
Talk about insulting...
2008-11-12 07:38:02
279.   Jon Weisman
275 - I specifically said, "I don't know the state of his current finances." So I don't understand why the first part of your comment is directed at me.

All I was saying to 264 is that you can't say the Dodgers haven't increased payroll when they've done nothing but do that under McCourt. Whether that will continue, I don't know. But you can't say that it won't. For all we know, the postponement of the Loge redo is to make more money available for payroll.

NPUT

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