I was trying to find my way to ILoveAlpacas.com, but I wound up here instead...

1 - LOL! All internet roads lead here...

Random Dodger game callback

July 26, 1958

The transplanted Los Angeles Dodgers were not much to look at it in their inaugural season on the West Coast, but on this day in Philadelphia, the Dodgers found a team that was playing worse than them and picked up an easy win over the Phillies, 10-4, before 18,117 at Connie Mack Stadium. First baseman Gil Hodges homered and drove in five runs.

All the win did was keep the Dodgers from falling into last place. They were 43-50 and 8 ½ games behind first place Milwaukee and San Francisco. Los Angeles was just .001 ahead of Philadelphia for last place.

Hodges had an RBI single in the first off of Philadelphia starter Jack Sanford. He would then hit a two-run home run off of reliever Jim Hearn in the sixth and then cap off his night, with a 2-run RBI double off of Seth Morehead. Sandy Koufax went the distance to pick up his 8th win. Koufax struck out seven.

The Dodgers had 13 hits on this day. Besides the four by Hodges, Gino Cimoli, Charlie Neal, Jim Gilliam and John Roseboro all had two. Bob Bowman had the only home run for the Phillies.

The first season for the Dodgers in L.A. was a disappointment. Coming off a 3rd place finish in 1957, the Dodgers slid all the way to 7th place with a 71-83 record and finished 21 games behind the Braves.

The Dodgers big problem in 1958 was that the team was old and some of the Brooklyn transplants weren't much help. Pee Wee Reese and Don Newcombe were near the end of their careers. Reese was allowed to retire at the end of the year, but Newcombe was traded to Cincinnati early in the year after piling up a 7.86 ERA. Duke Snider hit .312 but injuries limited him to 106 games. And the deep right field at the Coliseum held him to 15 homers. Hodges and second baseman Charlie Neal led the team with 22 homers.

The pitching staff had a lot of trouble adjusting to the Coliseum. The staff ERA was 4.47. Johnny Podres had the lowest ERA among starters at 3.72. Don Drysdale was 12-13 with a 4.17 ERA and Koufax was 11-11 with a 4.48 ERA. The Dodgers gave up 761 runs, one fewer than last place Philadelphia.

But help was on the way for the Dodgers. Frank Howard and Ron Fairly made their debuts. Roseboro took over fulltime at catcher after Roy Campanella's career was ended by a car accident that paralyzed him.

When the 1958 season ended the Dodgers traded minor leaguer Maury Wills to Detroit for players to be named later. But during spring training of 1959, the Tigers sent him back to L.A.
Outfielder Elmer Valo played his last year for the Dodgers. The Dodgers would not have another Elmer on the roster again until 2004.

The Los Angeles Dodgers drew over 1.8 million fans to the Memorial Coliseum in 1958. This was an increase of over 800,000 from their last year in Brooklyn. Attendance would increase more in 1959. But sports writers in L.A. wondered why local fans were spending their money to follow such a bad team. And was Walter Alston's job in peril?

Thanks to Los Angeles Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

How is Hodges not in the HOF?

Bob, thanks for the wonderful daily callbacks.

Bah, ilovellamas.com is much better.

Bob's callback reminds me of the great History of Dodger Stadium photo book my stepson got me for father's day. A fun read.

Gil Hodges isn't in the Hall of Fame for the same reason that some other people aren't. He was just pretty good, but he wasn't great. The batters most comparable to him are Norm Cash, George Foster, and Jack Clark.

Hodges would have to make it as sort of a combo player/manager, but I think he died too young to leave enough of an impression as a manager.

Looks like Vin is going to be profiled on HBO's "Real Sports" tonight.

http://www.hbo.com/realsports/index.html

Bob, so basically, the Dodgers traded Wills for himself? I'd never heard that before.

7. Great handle. I was in that condition last night.

hodges is listed on the rfk stadium "tarp of honor" for his service as a manager, and i believe his number has been retired by the new york mets.

as we know, the only dodger number retired by a non hof'er is gilliam's, which explains why scioscia and others got to wear number 14. and why grabowski got to wear number 6, for that matter.

Grabowski and Brett Mayne wore 6!

I think if Hodges ever made the HOF, his number would be retired.

He got a lot of votes for the HOF from the writers, but that was likely because he was very popular with the press. Sympathy played a part too.

But now he's in Veterans Committee hell. The way that's set up now, Jesus couldn't make it to the Hall of Fame.

Jesus couldn't hit the major league curveball. Once pitchers figured that out, he was toast.

But now he's in Veterans Committee hell. The way that's set up now, Jesus couldn't make it to the Hall of Fame.

I haven't heard this. Could you provide more details about the VC?

Jim Tracy always played David over Jesus because of the scrap-factor.

JC never really got the chance to show what he can do.

11 & 13

I had hoped Garvey could get in through thw VC. I thought they were much easier than the writer. Has that changed?

The Padres retired Garvey's number. I think that's really funny. Dave Winfield's number is retired there, too.

I hope the Dodgers can land Adam Dunn, Ugueth Urbina...

And then replace Erickson, Sanchez, and Carrara with Broxton/Urbina/Kuo.

Any takers?

11
i am sure you are correct that 14 would be retired if he made the hof. mitch webster, i believe, was the last to wear 20 before sutton was inducted and had the number subsequently retired.

iirc, jolbert was the first to wear 6 after garvey left, and popeye wasn't too pleased about it.

maybe someday 6 will be retired for garvey and grabowski, just like the yankees' 8 for yogi and bill dickey.

The Veterans committee used to be pretty easy, if arbitrary. Every former teammate and old friend of the members seemed to be getting in - most of the bad selections over the past 20 years or so came from the VC. So they changed the rules, and now it's almost impossible for the VC to choose anyone. I don't remember the specifics (Bob T will), but they probably leaned too far the other way. Which means that Bert Blyleven is doomed if he doesn't get more love from the writers.

I'd put Garvey and Hodges and Kirby Puckett, and Dale Murphy and Jim Rice and Dave Parker in the Hall of Pretty Darn Good, which should be built down-wind of the HoF.

19
i think it was after maz made it in that they revamped the process.

Hey! Maybe they could build that "Hall of Pretty Darn Good" next to the "Field of Dreams" ballfield in Iowa! 'Course, for regional purposes it might need to be called "Hall of 'Purt Near Great."

there's an article up at si about the same hof/hopdg discussion we are having

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/tom_verducci/07/26/hall.best/index.html?cnn=yes

All that Jesus talk reminded me of this:

http://alienlovespredator.com/index.php?id=4

There are a lot of people in the Hall of Fame who wouldn't get into Hall of Pretty Darn Good. At least not before Hodges and some of the other names Bob mentioned. And he is right, the VC is a joke now.

As far as Jesus in the HOF, I think he pissed off a lot of people because he kept saying that HE was the real Commissioner. Plus he kept turning other players' sunflower seeds and gatorade into fish and wine. Very controversial!!

GCRL,

Thanks for the article link. It makes a much more compelling argument for Hodges in the HOF than I ever could. I did not realize that he was the leading right-handed NL homerun hitter at the time of his retirement. That has to mean something.

Adam Dunn would be a tremendous pickup. He's someone who would help the Dodgers make it to the post-season this year, and next year, and the year after that.

Urgeth Urbina has a personal problem (alcohol) and wouldn't be a good long-term addition, in my opinion.

In my mind, you can't be a huge buyer at the deadline if you aren't competitive in 2 races (division and wild card). If you're only competitive in one of those two races, I say be a buyer but not a BIG buyer, throwing money at 6-monthers.

Urbina's bigger problem is that he's just not that good, and costs millions of dollars.

26- Urbina's a short term solution for the bullpen (along with Broxton), that might come cheap.

If we add Dunn to our lineup, and solidify the bullpen. We have a good shot in the post season because Penny/Lowe are proven post season performers.

27 - That's not so much Ugie's problem as his employer's, though.

27- Urbina's a ton better than what we have. So in context, Urbina would have a lot of value to our team.

Also, considering McCourt's promises and the salary structure, we should be able to take on money.

I have been advocating trading for Dunn forever. Baseball Primer has a link to an article that says Dun would accept 3 years at 22 mill to stay in Cincinatti. I would be happy if he came to the Dodgers for even 5 years at 45 mill. That would be such a bargain.

Ugie Urbina is not worth what we'd have to give up for him. I'd rather get Billy Wagner for a little bit more.

He's not a ton better, though, and he costs $4M per year.

Are you really advocating spending a prospect and a pro-rated share of $4M on a 7th-inning pitcher?

Kuo is better. Cheaper. Easier to acquire. And adding a 7th-inning pitcher won't make us into a .600 team.

#26, #31,
Dozens of people here have been advocating the trade for Dunn. The Adam Dunn Scouting Exhibition or whatever it's called is happening tomorrow or something.

Postseason lineup:

C Phillips
1B Choi/Saenz
2B Kent
SS Izzy
3B Valentin/Perez/Robles
LF Dunn
CF Bradley
RF Drew

Bench - Werth, Repko, Rose, Edwards

That would be the second best lineup in the National League.

SP Lowe
SP Penny
SP Perez
SP Weaver
Bullpen - Houlton, Schmoll, Brazoban, Alvarez, Dessens, Sanchez

26. But baseball and alcoholism go hand in hand. Ask Grover Cleveland Alexander.

The Veterans Committee isn't a Committee anymore. It's a group of every living member of the Hall of Fame plus the winners of the broadcasting and sportswriting awards. They vote every two years for players and every four years for off-field people (umpires, executives).

In their first two tries, nobody made it and I don't think anyone was particularly close.

The ex-Dodger, in my opinion, who truly does deserve a spot, and will likely never get one unless hell freezes over (continuing on with our messianic/apocalyptic theme) is Walter O'Malley. If there are two executives who should be in the Hall of Fame who aren't, it should be O'Malley and Marvin Miller. Both men changed the game of baseball immensely. However, both men also succeeded in ticking off about half of the baseball world. And the halves they ticked off are disjoint sets so their HOF support cancels each other out. I also don't think any New York-based sportswriter would vote for O'Malley, although I don't know how many of them are still alive to vote. The NY Times doesn't allow Murray Chass to vote. The LA Times also no longer allows its writers to vote for such things, but I think Ross Newhan may still get to vote because he's just an outside contractor now.

After seeing Dunn last night, he has 1st baseman written all over him. So, we would need to send Choi somewhere.

34. So we'd not give up any major-leaguers in the trade for Dunn?

I should mention that when I heard Marvin Miller speak at the SABR convention last year in Cincinnati, he spoke well of O'Malley. He seemed to think O'Malley was one of the few owners who realized what the players' union was trying to accomplish with getting free agency and was trying to prepare his finances and his team for it.

Although Miller didn't name names, he did mention that O'Malley found out which Dodgers didn't vote to go on strike at the beginning of the 1972 season and had those players traded the following season. I believe that was Robinson, Valentine, Singer and Strahler who got sent to the Angels.

Of course, O'Malley got back Messersmith and that player turned out to be the one who caused even more problems for the owners.

36

agreed. That Walter is not in the HOF is a joke.

Gil Hodges got to 63.37% of the vote in his last year of eligiblity (1983). I believe he received the most HOF votes of anyone who didn't make it.

The Veterans Committee procedures can be found here:
http://tinyurl.com/cepa5

Remember, there is an Adam Dunn trade contest. Just guess what four players (assuming 4 for 1 trade) the Dodgers would trade to get Dunn. Your guess can include both major and minor league Dodger players. Just post your guess on this board. I have saved four guesses so far.
vr, Xei

34- That would be the second best lineup in the National League.

I'm sure you're kidding, right? This wouldn't be the second (or third?) best lineup in the NL East alone. Choi and Phillips, notably, were traded out of that division. And that doesn't even address our woeful 3B (defense) or SS (offense).

It would be a killer outfield though.

#43,
Choi and Phillips, notably, were traded out of that division.

What's that supposed to mean?

I think we should worry about getting to 1st place before we talk playoffs. Though Dunn will certainly help, I don't know if that will happen.

42-

My guess would be...
Edwin Jackson, A.Perez, D.Navarro, D.Sanchez

Dunn for Edwin Jackson, A. Perez, Loney, Erickson

Yes, Loney is a touted prospect, but the only way Erickson is getting off this team is by being traded or being run over by a bus.

42-

E. Jackson, H. Choi, Dirty Sanchez, Jayson Werth

47 - If you're really Joe Morgan and you're right about Erickson I'll never doubt you again even if you continue to blame the Giants woes on not having Bonds.

Even though I won't venture a specific guess, I will say if we can get away with only losing 1 pitching prospect and the Devil-in-the-BP then that would be good indeed (especially since I believe E. Jackson to be a bust).

46 - I believe I have dibs already on that 4-some. I'll give you 20% of Xei's Fame and Glory that he bestows on the winner.

Also, what about Everyday Eddie Guardado as a reliever? I think he'd be a solid pickup for the bullpen, and would probably come even cheaper than Urbina.

I might go Odalis for Urbina/Padilla though.

48 - The problem with trading Choi then is who's on first (no pun intended). Saenz cannot play there everyday... how about an "experiment" with A. Perez at 1st? Or is 5'11" too short...

49 - I wouldn't go so far as calling Edwin a bust, I just don't think he's the second coming of Doc Gooden (the original, good version). I think he could end up being a Pedro Astacio-type.

We'll look back at this deal fondly come 2007, when Adam Dunn is clubbing 50 homers, and Edwin Jackson is 10 and 14 for the Reds.

What ever happened to Joe Thurston?

Who wants Choi though? I think he's a laughing stock to most of the league right now.

Actually, didn't Durazo have season-ending surgery recently? Maybe Billy would take him on as a lefty DH/1B.

49 - Of course I am!! You don't know what a great move getting rid of Erickson would be a move that would be great for team chemistry.

Edwin Jackson MAY be a bust, but I think there's a decent chance that people will be saying "Just imagine how good the dodgers rotation would be if they'd kept Jackson to go along with Billingsley, Hochevar, and Miller."

It would be better if the Dodgers kept Loney and instead offered Werth and Jim Tracy, but that would add up to 5 players and the rule seemed to be 4 for 1.

46,50. That foursome has already been selected. vr, Xei

here's my guess:

Dunn for A. Perez, E. Jackson, and R. Ledee. I'm not sure it will take four players, but if it does it will be a low minor leaguer.

52 - I call 10 - 14 pretty much a bust relative to his hype level.

54. Choi a laughing stock of the league? I doubt teams are salivating over him, but he's definitely not a laughing stock, and we've got plenty of them rostered, but he's not one of them. Perhaps you've been listening to a little too much Jim Rome or ESPN radio and you need to stop reading the LA Times as your bible. Those people/publications love to bash Moneyball/DePodesta and his poster boy Choi.
vr, Xei

55 - Uh, Joe, that's 4 players and our manager. Not that I'm complaining...

10-14 is a pretty good record for Cincy.

I think he'll be a league average starter for awhile.

57. If you select four players, you have a better chance of winning.
vr, Xei

51
i think garvey was 5' 10"

59 - Laughing stock may be overstating it a bit, but I don't think we'll get any Derrek Lee's for him now. I'd say his stock has significantly dropped over the last 12-15 months.

63. Garvey's arm and especially his throw to second base made up for any height problems at first base. :)
vr, Xei

56- O.K. Then, How's about...

Jackson, Brazo, Werth, Navarro?

I just don't see DePo giving up Ghame Over if he's trying to make a run at the division; unless he thinks Schmoll can step up. The BP is just too fragile to mess with if the NL West is the goal.

63 - You're right! So it's not unheard of...

Not worth paying for, but Steve Phillips has an ESPN insider article where he gives his description about how each GM in the NL is like when discussing a deal.

Phillips, surprisingly, speaks well of DePodesta saying that he is smarter than the other GMs and tends to look at deals in a different way because he doesn't have the same baseball background as others. He says DePodesta listens more than he talks and claims that you can picture DePodesta's mind going through everything said to him to see if there is anything behind what was told him.

Phillips had the most praise for John Schuerholz. Or at least respect. Says how Schuerholz plays everything close to the vest and never volunteers anything that he doesn't need to reveal.

While Phillips doesn't badmouth anyone, he doesn't seem to like Jim Bowden much.

He also likes Kevin Towers because he's "a man's man."

67 - What about Guardado?

Lo Duca played at first base at times and he's about 5'9".

I always thought it weird that people thought that Lo Duca slumped at the end of the year because he was too small. Wouldn't a big guy get tired too if he had to squat behind the plate all summer?

54: Choi is not the laughing stock of the league, I am. I finally read Moneyball, and I can't believe that Harry slept with Hermione and that Ron is jealous!! oh wait, that's harry potter....

I had to throw in Tracy because it doesn't seem like Tracy and Choi can exist on the same team, and I'd rather not trade Choi. His value has never been lower than it is now. Choi is an unlucky line drive hitter in a power hitter's body with the Dodger's best batting eye that hardly walks anymore and strikes out a ton.

I didn't realize this was a serious competition. There is no team that would want Erickson. I revise my guess:

Dunn + Rule 5 ineligible throw in minor leaguer

for

Jackson, A. Perez, Loney, Sanchez

two spots open up, Kuo and Broxton get called up, and Erickson, somehow, magically, incredibly, incredulously, survives the cut again.

Things could be worse. The Nats are hitting .170 since the All-Star break.
vr, Xei

Bob T, what did the article say about the Reds GM?

74. Yeah, did the article say if he was a big Scott Erickson fan?
vr, Xei

O'Brien is "an organizer" "conservative" "intrspective" "keeps things close to the vest".

Dan O'Brien, Cincinnati Reds
As is often the case, O'Brien's style is much the opposite from his predecessor, Jim Bowden. O'Brien has more of an organizer style as he will always dot his I's and cross his T's in everything he does. He is a thorough, quiet and conservative guy.

He tends to be more introspective, keeping his thoughts close to the vest. He is a hard worker, and often sees things as black and white rather than gray.

74 - The article said positive things about Chuck LaMar, I don't think that we'll be able to get an accurate picture.

Jim Bowden - always trying to rip you off

Jim Hendry (Cubs) - idiot who gets ripped off

Ok, one more, last one I promise: what did he say about billy beane?

The next 3 years will be spent debating who is the better GM - Beane or John Sch___ulz (Braves GM)?

I'm sure Phillips wants to get a GM job again, so if he wrote a piece slamming a lot of people, that's not going to help him get a job.

Billy Beane, Oakland A's
Beane has a dynamic personality. He will tell you exactly who he likes and what he is going after. He believes that if you know what he is doing, maybe there is a creative way for you to help him get it. It is not a surprise, therefore, that Beane finds himself in the middle of many three- and four-way deals.

He doesn't care what people's opinions are about him. He is also aggressive and goes for what he wants. He has the ability to visualize what his plan is and how it works in conjunction with everyone else. He then tries to find a way to benefit from others' plans. Not many GMs can be a GM for his own team as well as someone else's team, but Beane has that ability.

He is one of the few GMs who doesn't say no to every initial proposal. If it works for him, he doesn't play games.

OK, here's my guess...

3 Team Trade:
Dodgers Get: OF Adam Dunn, P David Weathers
D'Rays Get: IF Antonio Perez, C Jason LaRue, 1B Hee Seop Choi
Reds Get: 1B Aubrey Huff, P Edwin Jackson,
C Russell Martin

Someone needs to teach Steve Phillips a new euphemism for "guarded." How many "close to vest" instances were in the column?

Phillips seemed to think that Beane did a good job and was easy to deal with.

Beane is similar to DePodesta in that they don't take into consideration what public opinion will say about any trade they make.

Brian Y, are you a Reds fan? the Reds make out like bandits in that deal!!

Not that this will help Messrs. Hodges or O'Malley, but the Hall of Fame is adding another category for election:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/history/2005/050726.htm

Although I'll stick with my original prediction for the four players (A. Perez, Navarro, Jackson, and Brazoban) in a Dunn deal, I have a very, very uneasy feeling that DePo may very well give up Guzman for Dunn, who will then be signed to an extension. That would be a deal I wouldn't do, but I think DePo would be willing to toss the dice and see what happens.

If Oakland does need a 1B/DH, I think Beane would be willing to take Choi off our hands for a decent prospect. I haven't quite given up on Werth yet, and if we get Drew back, a lineup of:

1B - Dunn
2B - Kent
SS - Izzy
3B - Robles
LF - Werth
CF - Milton
RF - Drew
C - Phillips

would be okay I think. Or DePo could use the prospects gotten from Oakland for Choi to flip for another OF. If the starters hold up, Brazoban figures it out, and we get some help from either Kuo or Broxton, we might have a fighting chance with some luck in the postseason, assuming we make it with Dunn.

If Werth doesn't pan out, DePo can go get a good corner OF via trade or free agency in the off-season.

WWSH

Beane is similar to DePodesta in that they don't take into consideration what public opinion will say about any trade they make.

A very important trait, considering all the knuckleheads in our local radio and print media. But a good GM should always take into consideration the opinions of DT members. :) vr, Xei

88. Is that next years lineup? Cuz Valentin is coming back THIS year and should get some consideration for starting at either 3B or LF. vr, Xei

#86 LOL, no I am NOT a Reds fan but they hold the most leverage in this situation and I see them getting the upper hand in any deal for Dunn. Therefore any wishful dreaming of Perez and Jackson for Dunn are just that...DREAMS!

So yeah, I think they will get more than adequate value for Dunn while trying to save face and we all know LaMar is a B*tch to deal with on the TB end.

If Robles slumps until Valentin gets back, it might actually keep Jim Tracy from doing something stupid.

Re: 86

Actually, giving up Martin instead of Navarro might be an interesting option in a Dunn trade, especially if Fearing is right that we aren't taking into account Navarro's age when judging his somewhat disappointing performance at AAA.

The fact remains, though, that O'Brien will want one of our true blue-chip prospects (IMO LaRoche, Guzman, Billingsley, and Broxton), and DePo may not be able to work out a deal without dealing one of them. Jackson is no longer a blue-chipper with all his recent struggles. In my scenario, I was hoping that quantity might outweight quality to some extent, and that would play to our advantage in farm depth, but in this thin trade market, who knows what offers the Reds are getting from other teams.

WWSH

Oakland has a prospect named Dan Johnson who is a typical moneyball player and also Nick Swisher can and has played 1B. They are ok and don't need Choi.

#88, 90
Valentin can platoon with Werth if need be (in theory) as well as play 3rd base. He can also start 3rd and Robles can be a defensive replacement (maybe their defensive skills are similar but I'm sure Tracy thinks Robles the better defender). That should help with flexibility.

Re: 90

In all due honesty, I forgot about Valentin's return. If he really can man LF, he might be a better option there than Werth, or better yet, we could platoon the two.

Despite his recent slump, I actually can live with Robles at 3B. Unlike Izzy, he seems to have the eye to be a true leadoff hitter, which we could use.

WWSH

#93, I think we can get away from including one of our top top prospects if we try a 3-way with another young inexpensive all-star quality (Huff) player going to the Reds since Casey seems to be a goner and their OF is pretty much set. And what is this Baloney I hear about Aurilia coming to the Dodgers possibly??

93. Good point about having to give up one of our true blue-chip prospects. I think many on DT are doing a little wishful thinking in thinking that the Reds will take our useless crap off of our hands (Sanchez, APerez, Werth)... ok crap was a little strong, I will stick with useless.

94. Yes, both Johnson and Swisher are doing very well. A's have very little need for Choi. I don't see Choi going anywhere this year, except maybe riding some more pine.

vr, Xei

I don't think it's worth giving up one of our top top prospects to get Dunn now if we can get him after the season is over. I don't know the situation so that may not be the case though. I just don't think it's worth it to trade a top top prospect for a better 2005.

91 - I can't see us giving up martin. I'd say, in order of untouchability -
1. Billingsley
2. Martin
3. LaRoche
4. Guzman
5. Jackson

Adam Dunn is not worth any combination of two of these.

#100,
Those are only the top 5 of players we've mentioned right?

Re: 94

Just looked at Johnson's profile in the BA handbook. Yep, looks like they don't need Choi. I know DePo couldn't get Riccardi (sp?) to take Choi in a three-way for Hudson last winter, so I assume Toronto still isn't interested in him. I briefly thought of sending him to the Sox for Millar, but I'm not sure what we would do with Millar of all people. And I doubt the Mets will give up much for Choi, since Minaya's no stathead.

If we really can't get anything for Choi, then I'd rather just live with Dunn in LF and hope Tracy comes to his senses.

Anyone think the Mets might take Olmedo off our hands for a good prospect or two?

WWSH

Dan Johnson > Choi

100. Jackson #5? I would put Broxton, Tiffanee, Kuo and Hochevar plus a few others that I'm probably forgetting ahead of Jackson. The first four I completely agree with.
vr, Xei

#102 Do we need more prospects? And who besides Lastings Milledge is a prospect in their entire system? There's no Kazmir anymore and everyone else in their system seems to have regressed.

Did anyone watch the Futures Game and the weak at bats Martin had? He is a few years away and in that time I would rather see Navarro and Dunn rather than Martin/Navarro splitting time at one position.

If the Angels don't make a run for Piazza or Nevin, Saenz could be a fit for them.

You think the Angels would trade with us? ;-)

Re: 100

I wouldn't rate Martin that high yet. Too little power, even for a catcher. Don't get me wrong--he looks like another Kendall, but I don't see him in the same class as the other prospects on the list.

And it's not what we think Dunn to be worth, it's what the Reds GM thinks he can get. We also have to factor in what offers he's getting from other teams.

RE: 99

I agree with everything regarding 2005, but we would get Dunn for 2006 for a not unreasonable price, even after an arbitration raise. And he seems open to a very reasonable extension. If we can get assurances on an extension, I think that changes everything.

WWSH

101: Yup. I think Depodesta would give up Jackson and Orenduff or Jackson and a sub top 5 legitimate prospect for Dunn though. Dunn is not perfect, but he is a guy you can build around. I think the Reds GM knows exactly how good Dunn is, btw.

106 - I was impressed with the one at bat I saw, a long at bat that ended in a walk. Kinda summed up his hitting discipline.

I'm not sure Martin is the #2 untouchable in the organization though, not with Navarro around too.

#108. Martin has power as he slugged 20+ for VB Last year but in a pitchers park in Jax he is hitting for less power plus it's his first year there. Delwyn Young's power has surprised me though and he may see time with us this September.

#110 his 2nd at bat was a weak pop up to 1B but that's besides the point. He didn't swing with any authority and looked overmatched by that level of competition. That doesn't bode well considering his age and level of play.

108 - I think Depo values catcher defense greatly. I have no idea why, but evidence seems to suggest that he values it quite heavily. He never wanted phillips as anything more than a stop gap, he really wanted damian miller.

I suspect that Depodesta envisions a Navarro/Martin Tandem. Both guys would give solid defense and great on base ability and doubling them up would keep them fresh.

I know it's crazy to say that Martin is the second best prospect in the organization, but he plays a premium position and only has one flaw - a lack of power. Compared to a lack of plate discipline in both Guzman and LaRoche. I think all three are really roughly equivalent. Guzman has the biggest upside but the biggest bustability as well.

#110 his 2nd at bat was a weak pop up to 1B but that's besides the point. He didn't swing with any authority and looked overmatched by that level of competition. That doesn't bode well considering his age and level of play.

Wow. We give old-timey scouts a hard time for relying too much on impressions and not enough on stats, and now we're supposed to extrapolate and project from 2 ABs? Martin may not be a star after all, but 2 ABs don't mean a thing.

113: "bustability" Good stuff.

113 - Doesnt't Navarro rate higher strictly from a defensive standpoint?

2 ABs - one weak pop up, one walk. That's a .500 OBP. He's going to the Hall of Fame!

#117,
It's also a .500 OPS.

How bad would Dunn's power numbers suffer going from Cincy to Dodger Stadium? We may have to take into account that his stats are a bit inflated. Then is he just a 1+ year stop gap? Can he play LF up to snuff, or would he eventually have to be moved to 1B? I'm sure if he did well enough room could be made at either position. It's not like we have great players at 1B/LF or would be blocking top prospects. And as far as trading away a top prospect to get Dunn, you have to be realistic the Reds won't trade Dunn for a boat full of crap. We have alot of good prospects, and common sense tells you that not all of them are going to be top notch at the big league level. Dunn is a proven top notch player. Grooming prospects serves two purposes. A) To replinish your major league roster cost effectively, B) To use in trades for already established big league players. I think you have a good balance between the two. You can't go and trade all your best prospects for short term gain, but on the otherhand if a good opportunity presents itself you have to be willing to make some trades. Either way, there is risk involved. That's why it's a good feeling to know we have a responsible and knowledgeable GM.
vr, Xei

I would venture to guess that DePo has some method of predicting which prospects will be better major league players than others, so hopefully that can help us when it comes time to deal.

116 - Most (both scouts and statheads, I believe) seem to rate Martin as higher and having more upside than Navarro. For some reason though, Depo seemed to covet Navarro. I think Navarro will come up first while Martin works with the Young Guns in Jacksonville, then they all come up together. IIRC, Martin was converted to catcher, so he might take a little longer.

2 AB = small sample size

#117, I wasn't judging him as a bust because of those two AB's. I was just saying he looked overmatched in those two AB's and he is 22 at AA. His power swing hasn't come back and his defense is not as good as Navarro's.

Wow, you guys take criticism tough. I like Martin and think he will be a good player but by that time I would rather see Dunn in Dodger Blue. I wasn't calling him a bust at all.

#121,
So we're calling them the "Young Guns?" After they get up to the majors and start getting old what will we call them? The "Big Guns?"

I was watching around the horn,I'm really bored, and Plaschke is an idiot. He rambled on about how moneyball is a nice offseason trick but it doesn't measure heart, chemistry, scrappyness and all that other junk and that's why moneyball hasn't won a playoff series yet. They seem to have conveniently forgotten the red sox. a couple of morons argued that moneyball is all about Zito, Mulder, Haren, Hudson, Etc. But the Angels seem to do it with clutch hitting and chemistry somehow. Stat boy made a good point that Beane should get credit for replenishing the system with good arms and trading for other young Pitchers when Their Aces get too expensive to keep. It was nice to see some people coming along like mariotti and stat boy but plaschke's head is too shiny and I think it hurts.

120. Bill James & MLE.
vr, Xei

re 119:

Dunn 2005
Home: .267/.407/.674 21 HRs in 187 ABs
Away: .223/.374/.460 7 HRs in 139 ABs

So yeah, big power splits and BA splits (likely the same thing -- HRs that turn into outs).

But over the last 3 yrs, the differences are less dramatic:

Dunn 2003-2005
Home: .256/.400/.529; 54 HRs in 733 ABs
Away: .237/.367/.473; 45 HRs in 751 ABs

You also need to see how Cincy's park plays vs. Dodger Stadium. IIRC, they're similar.

Anyone have Park Factors off-hand?

124. Obviously, Plaschke (just like Morgan) hasn't read the Moneyball book, or has very poor reading comprehension. In the book itself Beane states that the goal is to make the playoffs and once you are there it's pretty much a crapshoot. I think this is evidenced by all the wildcard teams we have seen make or win the world series in the recent past. The regular season is a 162 game sample size, which means the better teams are more likely to make the playoffs. The playoffs are a set of 7 games, and in so few games, anything can happen. One bad outing from your best pitcher and he may not pitch again in the series. It's hard to teach an old Plaschke a new trick.
vr, Xei

#124,
Did he actually say scrappiness? I didn't realize people actually said that one as part of the heart/soul jargon.

Right now, it's sellers market and the Reds pretty much can wait it out and see who bids the highest. Hope Depo doesn't get desperate at the last minute and overpay for Dunn.

126. How many years have the Reds been in that new ballpark. Should only look at splits since then. Thanks. vr, Xei

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?sort=HRFactor

This data seems weird (it changes arbitrarily) but surprisingly enough, Dodger Stadium and the GAB both play very similarly in regards to homers. Depending on which numbers happen to come through, both stadiiums are either neutral, or ~25% inflated.

I believe this is the third season for GABP.

I really would rather not include a top top prospect at all. The most valuable prospects I'd be willing to give up are Jackson and Navarro. But I don't know much about prospects so I don't know.

132. the park opened before the 2003 season. all those stats are from GABP

re: comparisons of the two parks

Dodger stadium suppresses everything except homers, Dunn's strength.

citizen's one suppresses triples and homers.

Dunn would be a decent fit for us, parkwise. Can you imagine the top of the order as:
Drew
Choi
Bradley
Kent
Dunn

I salavate at the thought.

I just don't believe there is much of a market for Dunn. There could be some surprise team that comes in at the last minute, but if it truly is between Houston and LA, I like our chances.

Of course, if Casey does go to the Mets, Dunn could stay in Cincy. I get the feeling Reds management doesn't likes Dunn that much though.

citizen's one = GAB.

140. and GAB suppresses triples and walks.
I need to proof read and go read moneyball.

Re: 127

Well, as I recall, they're only similar in that Dodger Stadium is neutral on homers, but depresses everything else. My impression is that Cincy is a straight hitter's park all the way around, although I could be wrong.

As a TTO (is that what they call it, "Three True Outcomes?) player, Dunn would seem to be a perfect fit, since so much of his offensive production comes from those two parts of offense that aren't reduced by Dodger Stadium, homeruns and walks.

This is also part of the reason why I think Beltre has struggled so much in Safeco, which does depress homers. That, and the fact that Beltre looks right now like a one-year wonder.

Of course, I should point out that this was also probably part of the rationale for signing Lowe. Since Lowe in his career gave up so few homers, the assumption would be that he would benefit from DS more than most pitchers. And then Lowe comes and proceeds to give up homers at rates far in excessive of his track record. Of course, if he continues to continue this recent streak of his, he'll end up as a successful signing and will vindicate the original article Tom Meagher had on this back in the off-season.

I agree on Guzman's potential for flame-out, though, which is why I at least would entertain the idea of giving him up for Dunn. That doesn't mean I'd be enthusiastic about it, though. Being a good GM is obviously about knowing when to take a risk, and when to not take them. Let's hope DePo decides correctly!

WWSH

citizen's one suppresses triples and homers.

Tell that to Eric Milton.

Hey Nate, did you see I got a question answered on baseballanalysts.com? Bryan Smith did not have kind words for your boys Kemp and Denker (he ignored Kemp and said Denker's season was flukey). He did however have very kind words for Broxton.

#143,
I saw that. What are Denker's minor league stats before this season?

Re: 133/137/140

I'm confused--is there really data that suggests that GAB suppresses homers. Joe, are you using BPro factors? And you didn't actually mean to say that GAB suppresses "triples and walks" in 140, right? (if you made a mistake, don't worry, I'm notorious for making mistakes in posts designed to be corrections)

My BPro annual has Cincy's factor at 980, which is really surprising, but my annual doesn't break down the numbers into component hits. I always thought BAB was a bandbox.

WWSH

Re: 138

I hope you're right about that. But surely Dunn is one of the premiere hitters on the market. A 25 year old who hit 46 HR last year. Come on! There must be a raft-load of GMs who want him for offensive help.

WWSH

In regards to all of the talked about deals that include Dioner or Martin in a deal for Dunn:

I think that everyone might be undervaluing Dioner and Martin. A few posts ago, someone posted about RotoWorld's top 150 prospects. 9 of the 150 are catchers. We have two. Here're the RotoWorld catcher ranks:

32 Mathis Angels 22 Years
52 Martin Dodgers 22
102 Kottaras Padres 22
109 Saltalamaccia Braves 20
115 Montero Diamondbacks 22
119 Quiroz Blue Jays 23
122 Shappach Red Sox 25
129 Walker Pirates 19
132 Navarro Dodgers 21

Assume that RotoWorld might be correct that Martin is the second best catching prospect in baseball. Now think of the current catching talent in baseball.

Everyone seems totally against trading Billingsly, and he's Roto's 5th best pitching prospect. There are 72 pitching prospects.

The 5th out of 72, or the 2nd of 9?

Compared to other position player talent Navarro and Martin might not be spectacluar, but in the context of production from position, it's possible that they're much more valuble than some of us think. The fact that Jeff Kent plays 2B is what makes him more valuble than an OF'er with his number, right? Apply that here.

I just don't believe there is much of a market for Dunn.

What about the Cardinals? Don't they have injuries to Sanders (serious) and Edmonds (nagging)? I'm not sure what kind of OF depth the Cards have at the moment. If not much, could you imagine plugging Dunn into the middle of that lineup? The Cards have alot at stake which is a golden opportunity to win it all, just like they did last year. And Dunn would be a nice insurance package.
vr, Xei

Re: 148

But would Cincy be willing to trade within their division?

WWSH

#148,
Any team that can call Dunn an "insurance package" has one heck of a line-up (which the Cards do, but that seems pretty absurd).

146 - But he's a sub-.250 hitter that strikes out 150 times per year. Those are Jeromy Burnitz/Rob Deer numbers. Some GMs look at those numbers and would be unwilling (or unable) to match the Dodgers (presumed) offer of Edwin Jackson + others.

Houston would probably try to sign him as a FA. I don't think they have the pitching talent to match LA's, and pitching is obviously what they need.

149 - Exactly. Same goes for Houston. Given the choice, wouldn't you send him out of the division?

RE: 147

That's a good point I hadn't thought of before. Maybe we will be able to avoid giving up Guzman for Dunn...

WWSH

149. Good point. Hope not! :) vr, Xei

147. Divide that 72 by 5 due to the population of pitchers on for example a starting rotation outnumber the number of starting catchers. Then it becomes 1 out of 14.4 and 2 out of 9. I think I'd keep Billingsley, especially since we have TWO catchers on that list. vr, Xei

#147,
Excellent point. I'd be willing to trade Navarro but not Martin.
Hmm. Maybe Navarro and Jackson as the key components in a trade will be enough after all...

Re: 151

But surely his age helps him on that front. At 25, you can expect some improvement with regards to Ks and the like. And I don't feel Dunn gets much bad press in the MSM--as far as I can tell, ESPN et al seem to think of him as a premiere young power hitter, which is what he is.

Anyhow, I hope your right. He would be a great fit at DS--the issue is cost in prospects. And I can live with the fielding, which may not be as horrible as I originally thought, since his numbers are a little skewed in LF by a very bad fielding season last year (using BPro stats).

WWSH

RE 156.
I still doubt it.

151 - Adam Dunn is 25. Jeromy Burnitz hit 3 HRs when he was 25 and peaked at 38 when he was 29. Adam Dunn has 146 career HRs. Burnitz was 32 when he had 154.

151. Did Burnitz and Deer consistently match the type of OPS numbers that Dunn has been putting up in his early and mid 20s? OPS is a much better measuring stick than looking batting average and Ks only. vr, Xei

130- They didn't actually say scrappiness, I threw that in because it seemed apropiate. ;-) Scrappiness is more of a DT deal but it was in the spirit of what they were saying.

#157,
Is he fielding better this year?

Bradley and Drew should cover up a portion of Dunn's range problems (at least in the aggregate). People have been complaining that we have such a great defensive outfield for a ground ball pitching staff. One way to get them to stop complaining is to have a worse outfield... right?

Re: 159/60

Well, the issue is to some extent perception, isn't it? I think it's fairly clear that by the numbers, Dunn has great value, considering his age and production. But the real question is whether or not GMs have under-rated that value, which would then give DePo an opening.

Well, at least the trading deadline isn't that far off, We'll find out soon enough.

WWSH

147 -

It's dangerous to make decisions like that based on ordinal rankings. It's unlikely that Russ Martin would make a top prospect list if he WEREN'T a catcher - there's not enough power there, even though the average and patience are above-average. The standard deviation in catcher performance at the MLB level is much less than the StdDev of MLB pitcher, who range from awesome (Clemens, Sheets, Santana) to awful (Nomo, Lima, Milton, Ponson). Catchers are more closely clustered. While a good catcher is a nice commodity, it doesn't benefit nearly as much as a good pitcher.

5/72 = 93% percentile.
2/9 = 77% percentile.

Billingsley is better than 93% of the top pitching prospects. Martin is better than 77% of top catching prospects. I admit that's a skewed way to look at the rankings; I only mention it to provide a different spin on your point.

147 - The cathing talent shortage is probably why DePo wanted Navarro so bad last year.

With all this talk about Dunn, is there any other players Depo is seriously considering?

Re: 162

Seems to be. His BPro Rate2 stat in LF is 95 so far this season (100 is average), as opposed to 89 in 2004 and a career number of 93.

WWSH

164 - regarding the last paragraph. There's too few samples to make that generalization.

During the 1st Dodgers draft, DePo said he wasn't going to necessarily stick to the stereotype that he and Beane only take college pitchers. He said it's just that they were undervalued for whatever reason.

I think, considering the state of catching talent, that catching prospects may be hugely undervalued, and to include one of ours in a deal if we don't have to might be foolish.

166. Don't know. We can really only go by the rumors. The most prominent other names out there have been Aubrey Huff and Matt Lawton. Niether one really floats my boat, but of course it would once again depend on who would we have to give up. Obviously for one of those two we surely wouldn't be throwing out the names of our top prospects like we have for Dunn. For a hitter, I say Dunn or bust! We could always use another bullpen arm, but I think that problem can be solved just as well by promoting two minor league pitchers and demoting two major league pitchers. vr, Xei

Therefore I am promoting a new slogan... "Dunn or Bust!" vr, Xei

#164, #168,
There being so few catching prospects is one thing, but us having 2 of them is another. I think the question being asked (or at least the one I'd ask) is, since we have 2 catchers on such a short list, would we we be better off parting with one of them instead of a top pitching or another top hitting prospect, even though, as has been said, the list is top catching prospects is very short?

RE: #171
It should read at the end, "the list of top catching..."

And as I'm sure you've figured, the post is in regard to a trade for an impact player.

If we had to say bye to one of the catchers, I'd definitely rather it be Navarro.

Interesting article about the White Sox:

http://www.nysun.com/article/17600

171 - If you keep both, and one of them turns out to be a top catcher in the league, we'll have a top catcher at a bottom price allowing us to spend on more affordable positions.

Think this way: Say we were paying 10M to Varitek to hit 20HRs and drive in 75 runs. If we had Martin producing similar numbers at 300k, we could be paying someone like Dunn that same 10M to hit 40HRs and drive in 110 runs.

170 - "Dunn or Done!" ;)

I guess my point is "the fact that there are few Top catching prospects does not make them any more valuable to a team's success. Good catchers contribute what they contribute, which is less than a good SP.

You're half-right about my last paragraph: the sample size of pitchers is valid (>30), but the catcher sample size is terribly small. I was only using it as an illustration, rather than proof of anything. The catching prospects are all clustered in the 100's, where Billisley and other pitchers are (I'm assuming) in the Top 25. Hence, they are far more valuable.

Scarcity may increase market value, but it does little to increase actual in-game value on the field. Martin can only perform to the best of his ability, which should not be measured on a relative scale. Still, your point is well-taken: there are replacement costs to be considered. My point is that the difference, in theory, between Billinsley and his replacement is greater than the difference between Martin and his replacement.

VORP range for catchers and pitchers:
C 34 to -12
SP 61 to -22 (arbitrary 100IP minimum)

^^^
That's really my point.

174 - the same thing is true of a top pitcher at bottom price. It's not catcher-specific.

174 - Varitek had a 2.000 OPS in '97. Take that, Barry.

172. Luckily, Cincy has two very good hitting catchers. LaRue is a little bit expensive and Encarnacion is 29 years old. I'm sure they'd like to have a catching prospect, but it's probably not near the top of their list. I think Cincy needs arms. Let's say that Depo told Cincy that Billingsley and Guzman for sake of argument were off limits, and the Reds could choose one of our other top 8 prospects (and only one), I very highly doubt the Reds would choose one of our catching prospects. vr, Xei

176 - I agree that Billingsly performing at a top pitching level is more valuble than Martin performing at a top catching level.

I wasn't necessarily advocating trading Billingsly instead of Martin, I was just trying to point out the refusal to part with Billingsly (which I share) and my percieved indifference of everyone for parting with Martin.

Not that Billingsly is overvalued, but Martin may be undervalued. How's that?

Since the discussion has drifted to catchers here is a side note.

There is a 4th MOLINA brother in our Ogden organization.

NO JOKE- He is our destiny.

180 - I think we agree, basically. I'm only picking Billingsley because you mentioned him, and arguing moreso in abstract than because I sincerely believe you'd keep Martin before Bills.

I still don't think Dunn's worth it this season. If we can get away with D Young, Jackson, and A Perez for Dunn, then great.

Hey Bob (or, really, anyone else), should Sadaharu Oh be in Cooperstown? He's the only Japanese league star I know by name, but are there other Japanese players who ought to be in?

The MOLINA catching family spread like wildfire. Soon there will be a MOLINA in every organization.

Hey Nate, did you see I got a question answered on baseballanalysts.com? Bryan Smith did not have kind words for your boys Kemp and Denker (he ignored Kemp and said Denker's season was flukey). He did however have very kind words for Broxton.

im not really a fan of bryan smith. he is a blogger, just like me and you and is not in the field of scouting. he looks greatly at numbers to get to most of his anwers. i dont know he can call denkers season flukey, he just wants want to give love to a 21st rounder. And i dont know how people can ignore matt kemp for much longer, his numbers that he posted in the sally and now this year in the FSL is almost idential to jeff francouers numbers in the sally and in A+ at the same age.

one big differnce is that francouer projected his power with doubles but kemp was already showing his power with his homeruns.

he just wants want to give love to a 21st rounder

i mean, he just DOESNT want to give love.

its probably has to do with denkers percieved projection, or lake thereof because of his hieght. but i have news for you, marcus giles is the same size as denker, joe morgan wasnt a giant.

whatever. i just think denker is the type of prospect that is just going to have to prove himself at every level because he will always have doubters because he was a 21st round pick.

How tall is Denker anyway?

"joe morgan wasnt a giant."
Yes he was! ;) A real Dodger killer.

denker is around 5'9- 5'10 or so.

oh wow, he put matt kemp into the "no tools" group?

is he kidding himself? hes losing a lot of credibility with me.

Uncle Miltie IMAO that almost as funny
as Steve Sax's Sweaty Jockstrap.

i actually dont care that much if our lower level prospects dont get the reconigition they deserve. while all the attention can be paid to the guzmans and laroches, the lowe level hidden gems can develop and mature from the eye of scrutiny and be leashed upon the baseball world like ravage wolverines searching for their revenge.

or something like that. All that matter is that WE KNOW what we have down there. and we have damn good players.

ravage = rabid, savage?

yea i combined two words. oops!

Suns lineup is out.

Donovan
Weber
Young
LaRoche
Loney
Meadows
Guzman
Martin
Hanrahan

http://www.southernguide.tv/channel1.html

Mozilla users should use IE. The video doesn't play in my Firefox browser, but works great in IE.

i hope loney breaks out.

ive been waiting 2 yrs for him too.

i think we will see broxton tonight for sure. maybe even kuo if we are realllly lucky.

depo needs to make a trade... the suns team could use the extra help to win the second half southern league division title.

#195,
I hope so, too.

196 - he could demote Grabowski...

Billingsley is on the pregame show. He says that a lot of guys on the team know they could be traded at any minute.

They're talking to Billingsley right now!

Transcripts!

Billingsley is on the pregame show. He says that a lot of guys on the team know they could be traded at any minute.

dont worry chad, you wont be going anywhere. tell andy, joel, jonathan, russ and james that too.

yes transcripts please!

The Riverside Press Enterprise seems to think all the Dodgers would have to give up would be Jackson and Perez. Assuming they have some factual reason for reporting this, isn't that a no-brainer? Perez, due to his lack of defense and more promising infielders in the minor leegue system, has become the odd man out, and Jackson has seemingly fallen out of grace. If this rumour has any validity, shouldn't the Dodgers do this without a second thought?

Identity Crisis

what is your screename from?

For Dunn obviously...

wow, 50 cent hot dogs, peanuts, ice cream etc.

that is awesome.

203 - Yeah, which is why the rumor is either wrong, or isn't mentioning that the Reds probably want a couple more arms.

I couldn't understand half of what he said. The interview was really choppy. I heard him mention yesterday's game and how it was his longest outing. I also heard him talk about the trade deadline and how anybody could be traded. I heard him saying something about an injury from last year and something about life threatening but then it started chopping up again.

Billingsley is done. He was talking about getting hurt playing football in high school. Then my phone rang and I had to talk business for a few minutes, so I messed the rest.

Couple of questions for the minor league folks.

1) Why does Guzman bat 7th if he is the #2 hitting prospect in all the minors? Is he young for the level of play?

2) Is Broxton a starter or reliever? What are his stats like?
Thanks!
vr, Xei

Hanrahan has really fallen off the radar in the last year. Is he fully recovered from his injury?

She sounds nervous...

Why does Guzman bat 7th if he is the #2 hitting prospect in all the minors? Is he young for the level of play?

maybe to not put soo much pressure on him. he tries to do too much at such a young age.

guzman is 20, one of the youngest players in the southern league. the usual age is 22-24

Hanrahan has really fallen off the radar in the last year. Is he fully recovered from his injury?

he still isnt up to full velocity. he use to throw in the low 90s, now its in the mid to high 80s or so. hes working out mechanical problems.

Hanrahan's delivery looks similar to Billingsley. Too bad his stuff doesn't compare as well.

hanrahans delivery looks more like jeff weaver to me.

213. Ok, so he's young for his level. That's what I expected. Didn't the Braves (fairly) recently have a bunch of players rocket to the majors by around that same age? (A.Jones, Furcal, Betemit). I wonder what it takes to make the majors by the age of 20 or 21. Incredible performances coupled with need at the major league level? vr, Xei

I got the name from the CD I was listening to at the time I registered. That would be Thrice's Identity Crisis.

#210 - Xeifrank,
-#2
From what I heard (from somebody here), he used to be a starter but was then thrown in the bullpen because the AA managing people want the pitchers to be comfortable coming out of the bullpen because that's how many of them start off in their first year or so in the majors.

I don't know much, but I'd guess he's more valuable as a starter, but then again, what do I know?

BTW, did you get my email?

I got the name from the CD I was listening to at the time I registered. That would be Thrice's Identity Crisis.

thats what i thought. i didnt want to say because if i was wrong, i would have been embarassed.

i am a big thrice fan. i remember seeing them in anaheim 5 yrs ago when they were only a local band.

220-

nate, would that have been at Chain Reaction where you would have seen Thrice a few years back?

219. Only email I got was from Louis. vr, Xei

yea it was chain. use to see them all the time.

then they got too popular and too expensive haha.

This is pretty nice. Watching Suns before Dodgers. It's like watching doubleheader but better.

#222 - Xeifrank,
Oh.. Hmm. The problem is probably on my end.

I was asking about your line-up program. Specifically, how you came up with the percentages for players actually taking the extra base. How do you know that player x takes the extra base y% of the time? And fiddling with numbers, did you notice that the numbers of runs scored per game varied greatly depending on the % of extra bases taken?

Awesome. I'm a big Thrice fan as well. I've seen them about 5 times and Dustin once solo. They're playing at UCI on October 7 if you were thinking of checking them out anytime soon. Of course...I'm assuming you live in So Cal =).

I have a small video (about a minute long) of a new song if you want it (release date of the new album is like October 18).

Is the Suns so good that Martin is batting 8th while Phillips is batting 4th for Dodgers?

That's funny about Thrice. My buddy is close to those guys and their manager from growing up with them in Orange County. We actually booked Thrice to play a show at UC San Diego when I was there.

WooHoo...Homerun!

Weber homers for JAX, opposite field.

Jax 1-0 going into the 2nd

Yesterday, Billingsley pitches 8 innings of shutout and Lowe also does same. Can tonight's Suns game be a preview of the Dodgers game.

Hopefully not. Hanrahan's control appears to be poor tonight.

225. It's very non scientifical. It would take tons of research to have an exact sim of what % chance to give each runner for advancing more than one base on a single or two on a double. I didn't want to turn my program into a "science project", so I just came up with something simple and made the numbers up. First off, I rate each players speed on a scale of 1 to 100, 100 being fastest. Then if there is a runner on first base and there is a single, I plug the speed rating of the player on first base into a simple formula that gives me the % chance he has of going to third base. Then I create a random number and if the number is less than or equal to the percent chance, then the player goes to third, otherwise he stays at second base. Your question probably is more formula related, I assume. At the moment the formula is

1stTo3rd% = SpeedRating - 10
if Choi has a speed rating of 25, then he has a 15% chance of going from first to third on a single in my sim (given that 3rd base is open). I know it's not totally accurate, but it's good enough for now. I'd be open to other formula ideas that were simple like mine (uses a speed rating). vr, Xei

228. I've had the chance to speak with them on a few occasions...real cool guys. Last year I got to run (ok...we actually walked) in the Susan G. Komen (Cancer foundation) race with Thrice. Thrice and the SSE put together a group of fans that ran in the race...then later that night they destroyed at the Chain =) They retired T&C that night.

that was a good play by guzy, almost got the runner with his cannon.

they dont play t&c anymore? how come?

do they still play any songs from IC? how about anything off first impressions? doubt it huh

234. Scoring from 2nd base on a single is set at: X = 50 * Log(SpeedRating);
vr, Xei

LaRoche's defense has really picked up (only 4 errors in 30 games, 3 on first game) even though he was in a slump recently. Is LaRoche's defense ready for major leagues?

237 - Last time I saw them (HOB, Sunset), I don't remember them playing anything from IC, but they might've. All I seem to remember is them screwing up Artist in the Ambulance, and having to start over.

Guzman just missed a double by inches. I've been meaning to ask, where did the JtD name come from? What's it mean?

The only pitch I've seen Guzman take in two games almost hit him.

nippert is pretty impressive so far.

I second alex 7's question in #241.

#241,
JtD was coined by Steve. It means "Joel The Destroyer."

The Cardinals recently called up a minor league outfielder they call J-Rod due to all the OF injuries they have. The guy isn't much of a prospect given his age of 27, but he's done great since he's been called up. And check out the following paragraph about his last month in the minors................ vr, Xei
Rodriguez earned his shot with an unreal month in the minors, piling up 17 homers -- including four grand slams -- and 47 RBIs in only 34 games for Triple-A Memphis.

JtD= joel the destroyer.

steve made it up. it stuck.

also when guzman makes an error. its called a banana.

just some FYI.

hah, thrice, that's great. i used to be pretty into hardcore. i went to chain reaction a lot when i was in high school.

And when Joel hits a home run everyone has to take a tequila shot. Just some more FYI.
vr, Xei

I'm not sure why they retired it...I've see a lot of bands end up hating their early stuff. I do not know if this is the case with thrice though.

Occasionally they play Phoenix Ignition. I think they played it at the warped tour in Pomona....I don't think they have played anything from the first impressions in years.

Dustin played about 3 songs from IC when he did his solo acoustic shows. I have that stuff too if anybody wants it.

haha chain reaction...i was just there about a month ago. i didn't think chain reaction would ever come up on this site.

how does one follow the AA game live?

#247,
I'll take credit for the bananas by the way ;) (Whenever somebody suggested that JtD wasn't really an SS, Steve would say something like "I can't hear you! I have bananas stuck in my ears!").

is it just me, or does joe block (the announcer) gets his change ups mixed up with curveballs?

http://www.southernguide.tv/ go there to watch the game. Use IE though...it doesn't work with Firefox

Dear god, please no more Adam Dunn talk... It isn't going to happen, ok?

oh geez everyone here listens to thrice.

i thought this site was full of old codgers and i was the only young 20something yr olds.

scanderbeg, whod you see at chain?

There's an AP story up on Yahoo about J-Rod:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-cardinals-rodriguez

Here's his player page:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7605/

Can anyone figure out using some sort of formula how many runs our offense would have produced with the following lineup:

1. Perez .823 OPS
2. Loduca .758 OPS
3. Bradley .864 OPS
4. Beltre .713 OPS
5. Green .848 OPS
6. Encarnacion .849 OPS
7. Ledee .763 OPS
8. Izzy .640 OPS

Rumor has it that Jon Weisman - remember him? - will be back at full strength by Wednesday morning ...

#256,
I'm 19, though I've never heard of Thrice before, even though I'm from the LA County/OC area.

Codger Thoughts?

#258,
Ask Xeifrank. He can estimate for you.

hey stubbs.

get over teh trade.

thanks.

Jon Weisman, rings a bell. Decent prospect down in single A right? Good articulation, working on interpersonal relationships with in-laws, but can't hit the curveball.

martin has been really struggling at the plate. hes not walking like he did.

258. Need more info than that for my program to figure that out. But I could look it up since you listed the names of the players. I am leaving the forum now, and might not be back until after I get back from my softball game which would be around 1030pm. So email me the list of players, and I will get to it tomorrow if you can wait that long. vr, Xeifrank
xeifrank@yahoo.com

add a +1 to Donovan's scrap rating after that failed drag bunt attempt.

Nippert is on right now...

oh yay! between innings summo wrestling! what more could i ask for

263-i cant considering we would be smoking cigars right now in any other year.

this next week is huge for us. we need to add a bat. The NL is so damn weak (Cards injuries) that we could actually do some damage at full strength (Sans Gagne with Dunn).

#270,
But in the years after that, to be happy, we'd have to be smoking something else. I'm too lazy to say more now...

#254 - thanks.

#256 - cold war kids. coincidentally, the bassist of cwk did the art work for 'the artist in the ambulance.'

266-dont stress, just thought it would be interesting.

that lineup is certainly interesting, but with that lineup, what would our starting staff look like?

i mean you have two players in green and beltre making 17 million.

If we don't pick up any relievers before trade deadline, how about this idea? Bring up Broxton for either Erickson or Carrara and start preparing him for closer role by easing him into setup role. This way if Braz fails we have someone who can step in otherwise we only have Sanchez or Schmoll. I don't have much confidence in Sanchez and Schmoll in closer role.

Weisman coming off the DL on time. who knew.

Q dove homerun inning.

looks like a good inning, weber, young, laroche coming up.

Q-dovA

256 - Old Codgers = the guys who showed the kids the meaning of cool :)

274-that seems to be the question that always arises when discussing the Dan Evans-esque lineup. No use arguing about it anymore but with the 10 mil we are paying Green anyway, and the 22 million going Valentin, Drew, Kent I think there would be money for some arms. I didnt post that lineup to start that argument up, more so to see how effective that group would have been. Dont know if we could plug it in defensively as well?

274 - Probably Pedro Martinez, Tim Hudson, Matt Clement, Jeff Weaver, Brad Penny.

We're the Dodgers. Money is no concern and every player will sign with us if we want him to.

Eh, I dont like Pedro, he doesnt have a high enough zone rating in Saturday games in August.

He has heart, though, and soul.

and scouts say his body was too small to sustain the wear and tear of pitching and he would eventually break down before coming a good pitcher...

10 assists for Jon Weber and he's been hitting well this year. Anyone know his projections?

Do you think Delino Deshields has stopped rooting against Pedro?

What will end up being a worse Dodger moment, the Pedro trade or the Vlad signing falling through?

I don't think Delino ever cared too much about how foolish the Dodgers looked in trading for him.

All this Dunn talk got me thinking. I wonder if everyone is doing exactly what Depo wants so that he can fly under the radar and snag somebody he has his eye on while everybody else salivates over, suggests about, creates rumors surrounding, and inflates the value of Dunn.

How many total pitches has Guzman seen this season? 15?

i love how guzman swings at everything. he could definately be our next beltre.

yesss, kuo is getting loose in the bullpen.

The Pedro trade was worse than failing to sign Vladimir Guerrero (as a free agent recently) because Pedro was a "bird in the hand".

Signing Wilton instead of Vladimir is a really bad decision.

let's all remember Guzman would be a sophomore in college right now.

i was about to type randy johnson was perfect through 6 innings and then Juan Castro, with his possibly his first major league hit, breaks it up.

#256 Well, I'm old (45), but I've seen Thrice live. They're alright I guess. I grew up with bands with a bit more passion (The Clash, X, The Jam, etc.) or stronger songwriting ability (Elvis Costello, Nick Lowe, Dylan). Thrice are ok though. BTW, they're my son's favorite band.

Wow...Webber...2 outfield assists in 2 innings...

Is that a white Raul Mondesi out in RF?

wow weber has a CANON

*WOW* How do you throw out a speedy runner at 3rd as a RF when you catch the fly ball 20 feet from the wall? Atta kid Weber. Maybe a callup is in the cards as a reward for a solid season if the Dodgers sink next month.

Thank god DT was not around in 1997, the year Mr. Castro had a .433 OPS.

BTW, they're my son's favorite band.

Do you go to shows with him?

295. Dustin's song writing ability is actually what drew me to the band. I didn't really get into them until Illusion of Safety. A friend recommended them to me because I was reading a few CS Lewis books at that time. It just seems that Thrice is actually saying something as opposed to so many bands that just talk about girls that hurting their feelings...

#256 Old codgers= people forced to listen to Boston and Kansas growing up.

What,those bands are still on the KLOS playlist?? Must be one helluva payola, worse than Sony's guilty admissions in New York.

Wow, Matt Clement was just hit in the head by a line drive. He was taken to a hospital.

that hideous strength is based off of cs lewis' writing.

as the ruin falls was a cs lewis poem too i think

#301
Yeah, we've been to quite a few shows together. A few that I can think of:

Millencolin - decent, but rather dull
Less Than Jake - awful
Thrice/Thursday - so so
X- awesome, as always
Coachella 2004 - Pixies/Radiohead, etc - amazing!
Bob Dylan - fantastic
Wilco - great show

I'm hoping he can make it down from college to see Paul Weller with me in September.

Coachella 2004 - Pixies/Radiohead, etc - amazing!

ahh i bet radiohead was awesome. im a big fan of them.

Abolition of a Man as well. CS Lewis: "We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst." I think Dustin changed that to "We laugh at honor and are suprised are surprised to find knives in our back."

Kuo! Woo hoo

#303 Why would anyone have been listening to Boston and Kanas (and Yes, Foreigner or Styx for that matter) when they could have been listening to the Ramones, The Clash, Elvis Costello, X, Squeeze, Television, Big Star, The Jam, etc, etc ???

sweeeet kuo is in! i wanna see the gagne hop after he Ks someone.

Gvette, the first Kansas album was pretty great. Only later did they enter the manufactured dreck stage, ala Boston (and far worse, the hugely overwrought) Styx.

#302 I may have been too harsh re: Thrice's songwriting. The CS Lewis influence is interesting. My son went out and bought 'The Abolition of Man' as a result of listening to Thrice.

Are they playing in Irvine in Sept?

I really do not think it's fair to lump Yes in with bands like Foreigner.

Steve Howe (not the Dodgers drug addict) is one of the best guitar players to ever breathe oxygen.

And a runner gets thrown out. Beautiful.

They are playing UCI on October 7...a Friday. Pre-sale tickets sold out. I believe the tickets will be available on Ticketmaster in August. I'm hoping they add a date at the Glasshouse in Pomona. Then I can see them twice =D

Steve Howe is indeed a great guitar player. Unfortunately, those attending Yes concerts were also subjected to 1 hour plus Rick Wakeman keyboard solos. Blech.

#303 It was a question of finding those bands through friends and word of mouth in the late 70's, since the big rock stations, at least in LA, were obsessed with Rondstadt, Fleetwood Mac, Eagles, etc. The KLOS playlist now is an ossified version of 1979.

Thank God for KROQ,and the other new wave stations that came and went.

KWST was great while it lasted. I'll bet few of you remember KNAC in the Ron McCoy days.

Steve Howe is indeed a great guitar player. Unfortunately, those attending Yes concerts were also subjected to 1 hour plus Rick Wakeman keyboard solos. Blech.

It was worth it if you got to see them play Close to the Edge, Gates of Delirium, And You and I, etc.

when loney fills out, those warning track shots will be homeruns. hes at 6'3 200 right now. he could get to 220 and still be very agile around the first base bag.

I thought Loney had that one =(

Loney has shown quite the warning track power in these two games.

I'd like to see him put on 10-20 pounds (of muscle).

#312 Jim, Have to admit I thoroughly enjoyed Will Ferrell's take on "Dust in the Wind" in "Old School"

Remember the Don Kirchner Rock Concert Show in the mid/late 70's hosted by the rather stiff music impresario? No coincidence that Kansas was on constantly, since Kirchner had an ownership interest in their record label.

How come Alan Freed lost everything over Payola 45 years ago, yet Sony is still able to use it to push JLo, Jessica Simpson and similar "artists" on the public?

Broxton is warming up in the pen.

...or what Nate said.

324,

Or all the DJs on KCRW.

Nice double, and Guzman's stupid baserunning will really help him fit in with LA.

I thought Loney had that one

he had one just like that yesterday but it took the right fielder all the way to the padding.

JTD!!!!

Guzman hit a 2 run double...then was thrown out when he tried to stretch it into a triple.

Looks like we are about to get another inning of Kuo

So they pronounce Kuo like Quo, huh?

i think guzmans hit was a little bloop but that ball just kept carrying.

see joel, you dont have to swing out of your shoes everytime. nice solid crisps swing and the ball will go far. that could cut his Ks down drastically if he ever figures that out.

Wow...that dude just proposed!

another note, has anyone seen rob zombies theatrical production of devils rejects?

Rotoworld is reporting that Phil Nevin is being converted back to catcher and Ramon Hernandez may have wrist surgery.

336 - Is that his punishment for not okaying the deal, he has to catch again?

you guys just see the gagne esque hop after the k?

brings back memories doesnt it :(

Call Kuo up today. He just struck out the side!

Okay, let's call him up.

Gvette, I still remember how excited I got seeing the lead guitarist(Kerry Livgren?) of Kansas playing the same guitar as mine (a Hagstrom Swede) on In Concert.

I also experienced my second five seconds of fame during an In Concert filming while stomping my feet in the first row while watching Climax Blues Band play `Nogales Blues'. James Brown was also on the bill. Oh, and the Isley Bros. doing `Who's that Lady?', which arguably included one of the all time fuzz solos...

We found our left handed reliever. What is Depo waiting for.

kuo has that fan favorite flaire to him.

307 - Radiohead fans, too, eh?

I was lucky enough to see them at the Greek Theater right as 'Kid A' was coming out.
It was by far the best show I've ever seen.

wow i cant even spell. its "flare" huh?

i think depo is waiting on kuo gainging stamina. he cant go consecutive nights night. i dont know even know if he can do with 1 day of rest. he hasnt yet.

Flair. As in "Pieces of flair."

Or as in Ric Flair.

344. Radiohead is great. I've seen them twice at the Hollywood Bowl. I hate the hollywood bowl....too big. But Bjork and Radiohead only seem to play that venue as of late.

ric flair. wow that guy is so old and yet, still can probably hurt me pretty bad.

346. We're not in Kansas any more.

What about The Flaming Lips? Their last album, Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots, sounded like Radiohead if they were fronted by Neil Young and listened to a lot of Yes and Pink Floyd.

Woo Hoo...Delwyn Young! Opposite field homer

delwyn young is a beast.

ric flair. wow that guy is so old and yet, still can probably hurt me pretty bad.

After spending so much time in tanning salons, there comes a point where one ceases the aging process.

Jim, The Isley Bros. "Who's that Lady" WAS awesome, although it brings back more memories than I care to have of high school dances. Thanks to your reference,I'm sitting in my office at work desperately trying to make them go away!

Bad Hair, Bad Clothes, Bad Cars; The early 70's weren't pretty for those who survived them.

351. I saw the Flaming Lips with the Red Hot Chili Peppers last year. I have never seen anyone get booed as loudly as they were. Their live show is kinda cool with all the balloons etc. but I guess the crowd was tired of waiting for the Chili Peppers to come out.

everyone is scared of laroche, they all are pitching around him.

kudos to andy for steller plate discipline.

I'll take those two walks from LaRoche. His swing kind of looks like a righty JD Drew.

does anyone here listen to instrumental postrock?

stuff like
explosions in the sky
godspeed you! black emperor
silver mt zion

Meanwhile, back in Los Angeles

Cincinnati
Freel 2B
Aurilia SS (he says he can help us!)
Griffey CF
Kearns RF
Casey 1B
Pena LF
Encarnacion 3B
Larue C
Milton

Los Angeles

Izturis SS
A Perez 2B
Bradley CF
Kent 1B
Phillips C
Edwards 3B
Werth LF
Repko RF
O Perez P

the bull is in!

356 - I saw them headline, unfortunately it was at the Hollywood Palladium, the hands-down worst venue in California (with stiff competition from that Glen-Helen Blockbuster Pavilion nightmare in Devore).

Haven't heard of those bands.....do they sound anything like Isis?....they are mostly instrumental.

Wooo post-rock. I like those three and also Kinski, M83. You should check them out if you haven't already

5 Ks in a row for Kuo/Broxton.

The guitarist for the Isley Bros. really had the Hendrix (who at one time played in the band) down...the hair, the head band, the physical mannerisms. It was pretty cool.

Bad Hair, Bad Clothes, Bad Cars; The early 70's weren't pretty for those who survived them.

Well, in my defense, I studiouslyavoided polyester :)

360

No Dunn tonight?

I actually kinda like the Palladium. The sound can suffer a bit though. I'm a general admission person...I like being pretty close to the band. I saw the Chili peppers and System of a down play on the same bill there a couple years back. Metallica was supposed to join them as well but only Kirk showed up.

No Dunn in the lineup, either the Reds are idiots (they don't play their best hitter...) or something might be going down fairly soon

And Broxton is picking up where Kuo left off. If they could do this for LA, wow

6

Wow....the Bull also struck out the side

367,
Jerry Narron says that Dunn has trouble with some of those tough arm angles that Odalis Perez has.

WOW, 6 straight K's to end the game.

It's nice to know that we'll be owning the D-Backs in 2007.

#362 I don't know, I've seen many great shows at the Hollywood Palladium over the years. The sound may not be the best, but the fact that there are no seats is great. I love the energy of the crowd at a good Palladium show. Best Palladium shows I've seen: The Clash, Peter Tosh/Jimmy Cliff, X/Blasters/Buglamp/No Doubt ('92 benefit for Barbara Boxer), The Kinks, PiL. Worst shows: Big Country, The Romantics.

360,367

forgot OP is throwing tonight. nevermind

Kuo and Broxton combine to strike out 7 of the final 9 outs. Great job for them

Haven't heard of those bands.....do they sound anything like Isis?....they are mostly instrumental.

i LOVE isis. one of favorite bands. oceanic is amazing.

isis, old man gloom, pelican, tusk, i love all that sludge metal.

but godspeed and explosions isnt really like any of them. they are softer.

362 - Yeah, the Palladium was bad as bad can be. Been awhile, though...the last show I saw there was Edgar Winter debuting `They Only Come Out at Night.

OTOH, as big as the Hollywood Bowl is, imagine seeing Pink Floyd playing DSOTM six months before the album was released...

how about the bull, kuo and hanrahan? stellar pitching perfomance.

we need a nickname for kuo. broxton is a big boy isnt he? he sure has very imposing mound presence.

Old man gloom...I started listening to them after I got into Cave In...they do some really cool stuff.

368 - I've pretty much stopped going to shows these days. After having the chance to play some local venues a few years back, it stopped being fun having to stand and watch. Now I do neither.

That being said, general admission is definitely the way to go, but the Palladium's sound, Nazi security, and lack of darkness is too much to deal with.

Hey, Godvis, the Kinks! I finally got around to buying Arthur. Victoria!

Boy, talk about adding insult to injury:

"Chad Bradford replaced Clement with Boston leading the Tampa Bay Devil Rays 5-1, and the game resumed after an 11-minute delay. Three batters later, Aubrey Huff hit a grand slam off Bradford to tie the score. Clement was charged with three runs and four hits in 2 1/3 innings."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2117345

Old man gloom...I started listening to them after I got into Cave In...they do some really cool stuff.

i love cave in also. last yr around november i went to the converge/cave in tour (converge is my all time favorite band) and cave in played a bunch of old songs. i never thought they would again, it was a pleasant surprise.

Dunn against Lefties: .197 avg and .801 OPS

Dunn against Righties: .274 avg and 1.058 OPS

362 & 380 - What is it that you dislike about the Palladium? It was actually one of my favorite LA venues in the 70's/80's along with the Whisky, the Starwood, C.A.S.H., etc.

There was always great energy at the Palladium; loved the general admission shows, the pogoing, the slamming, etc. It sure beat going to the Forum while 17,000 fans sat on their hands getting high.

388 see 383.

::shakes fist:: I wanted to go to that tour so bad (cave in\converge). All my friends only listen to the radio so I can't get them to watch bands that don't get any play. Did get to see Cave In play "Dazed and Confused" live once and that was great.

Edwards is batting 6th and Werth is batting 7th tonight. That tells you how much Werth has slipped. Only Repko batting 8th keeps Werth batting above him.

384 - The Kinks were great! Do you have 'The Village Green Preservation Society'? If not, head down to your local purveyer of CD's (or vinyl) and pick up a copy. I just bought it a couple of months ago and can't believe I've lived all my life without owning this little gem.

Pretty much for the reasons Icaros descibed; bad sound, oppresive security, and the fact they never, ever, dimmed the damn lighting enough.

Call me old school, but I sawsome of my best shows at the Santa Monica Civic and the Santa Barbara County Bowl. Oh, yeah, the Starlight Amphitheaterwhen it was around.

In the Battle for the NL East title, Washington and Atlanta are 2-2 in the 9th. LaRoche with a home run and tying sac fly in the 9th.

393 - Those are good venues. I never made it to the Starlight Amphitheatre, but I had a friend who saw Bob Marley there and thought it was a nice place to see a show. Santa Barbara County Bowl is cool; I haven't been there in years.

Wow...almost 400 posts before the Dodger game starts.

LaRoche with a home run and tying sac fly in the 9th.

with the quality production adam laroche has put up, that is a pretty good sign for our laroche since almost every prospect analyst/scout say andy is a better prospect than when adam was a prospect.

#393 Bad Sound, Oppressive Security, Bad Lighting at the Palladium?

Exactly the way I remember it when I took the California Bar Exam there years ago!

We could use Adam Laroche too. Why don't we try to trade for him. :)

392 - Always meant to buy `Village Green...', so I just did. It has a lot in common with `Arthur'. So, thanks, you just tipped the scale.

loney should be as good or better than adam.

adam laroches stats as a 22 yr old in the southern league:

289/.363/.410

pretty similar to loneys current stats as a 21 yr old

I really just brought up the Braves game because I felt I would be too unhip if I didn't bring up the name of LaRoche.

u should watch the suns game bob.

392 & 400 -- "Village Green" is a fantastic record (I guess "recording" is the proper word to use now). The "Kinks Kronicles" also stays in my car and gets constant play.

I just mastered my Ipod (a gift from my brother) and was able to load a bunch of tunes onto it for our 2 week trip to Glacier National Park (go there before the glaciers disappear by the year 2030!). Using the Transpod in the car I was able to listen to a wide variety of music, including Danny Kaye's Dodger Song. Drove my wife nuts, but I really enjoyed it.

Dunn not playing, eh? Imminent trade?

In the course of compiling a defense case for Dioner Navarro, who Rob says has "splattered" at Las Vegas, I have compiled these stats:
Navarro's BABIP: .277
All the other 51s: .314
Bad luck, no?

#402 Bob, Dave LaRoche can probably be coaxed out of retirement to be a LOOGY.

He's probably not that much older than Jesse Orosco.

Ah, Glacier...what a place! Had a bear take a bite out of a 5 gal. water jug there. Silly bear.

I don't watch the Suns games because:

1) I was at work today
if not at work
2) I have a Mac and the feed doesn't work on mine computer
and
3) I really don't want to watch a AA baseball game

I am prepared to be driven out for noncomformity.

its not just A double A game, its our future dodgers!

Jenkins just tied the Arizona game, I certainly would not mind Milwaukke prevailing in that game

409 - And may tonight's gathering of the Torches and Pitchforks Marching and Chowder Society come to order...

412,
Is there going to be an effigy? I would love to see me getting burned in effigy.

Please!

And the Braves move into first when Andruw Jones walks with the bases loaded in the 10th.

Is there going to be an effigy? I would love to see me getting burned in effigy.

We'd need to put the noose about 20 feet high to keep your likeness's feet from touching the ground.

#413

Lucky for you Bob, South Pasadena has strict laws concerning freeway construction, Gold Line commuter trains, and burning its citizens in effigy.

I'm really glad Rich Aurilia volunteered his services for the Dodgers, but I think he helps the Dodgers more by starting for the Reds.

351 - Flaming Lips are amazing.

Did you catch them when they toured with Beck a couple years ago? The Yoshimi Album is great, but 'The Soft Bulletin' is almost as good.

I saw Radiohead at the Hollywood Bowl twice, as well. Each show was disappointing in relation to the show at the Greek in 2000. They only played three shows in the US at that time - 2 at Madison Square Garden and one at the Greek, which is perhaps why it was so good.

Eric Milton has surrendered at least one home run in 17 of his 21 starts this season.

Milwaukee has taken a 4-2 lead over Arizona in the 7th and they aren't done yet.

Not a particularly great start for the Dodgers offense

Milton shut out the Dodgers on 1 hit through the first 4 innings when he pitched in Cincinnati.

It got worse.

Is Choi not playing because he's likely to hit a home run off of Milton? Because that would totally ruin JT's plans to sabotage his season.

418 - Didn't go to the Beck tour.

The Soft Bulletin is very good. Have you heard Zaireeka, the album where you're supposed to play 4 discs simultaneously?

428 - No, but a friend that's a huge Lips fan told me about it. It's supposed to be really hard to sync the 4 albums up.

I think The Soft Bulletin is the best. Waitin for a Superman is one of the few "superman" themed songs out there that is worth listening to. Besides, who doesn't love bunny suits?

424- what is hard is finding four cd players that are identical (and therefore have identical timing).

426: this is best done in a studio. MP3s work well, too.

Werth hoses 2 runners in 1 inning.

Wow. Two assists.

426: CD players are crystal-controlled, so they have very good clock stability. It's not like a turntable.

419: the starter who loves to give 'em up versus the offense that can't hit 'em. That would be the resistable force meeting the moveable object.

Odalis does not look sharp but it wont matter that much if the Reds continue to run the bases this dumb.

Werth had just 3 assists all season.

I don't have my record book here, but I would not be surprised to find out that some outfielder some time had 3 assists in an inning.

Cardinals jump out over the Padres 1-0 as San Diego tries to avoid .500.

But if the Padres lost they would have the cool record of 50-50.

430 - Yeah, but all cd players have different timing because the data has to load and spin start up speeds can differ. MP3's run through similar programs are probably the best way to do it. Regardless, it takes four people hitting buttons at the same time.

This ump is really calling the low strike. I predict a future disagreement.

According to my book, 2 assists in an inning is a record shared by many outfielders.

No mention of a 3-assist inning, surprisingly. The record for assists in one game is 4.

424 - The point is to not worry about syncing them perfectly. The discs themselves are recorded out of sync, so you get a totally different experience every time you listen to them.

You can also listen to various combinations of just two or three discs, and hear other parts you've never recognized before.

The band encourages listeners to experiment with different stereos as well. Play some discs on big expensive systems, and others on cheap little boxes. It's fun.

Perhaps the best way to play all 4 discs is to rip them onto a computer, then sync the tracks in an audio program such as Protools or Cool Edit Pro, or some other sequencing software.

I have a disc that a friend of mine made which has all four discs mixed onto it.

438 - Very excellent point, Icaros. I lay my hand upon my mouth.

That was kind of like watching Karl Malone make his bread and butter straightaway 15-footers by banking them in. By accident, of course.

Edwards didn't miss that by too much. Too bad Griffey recovered...

Hmmm, I would have figured that some 19th century center fielder, who would usually stand not very far away might have picked up 3 in an inning.

Tris Speaker was reputed to play very shallow when he was a center fielder.

Meanwhile, the Reds score.

Nevin is batting cleanup for the Padres tonight.

And catching.

444 - I read a book by Branch Rickey in which he hailed Tris Speaker as one of the greatest atheletes ever to play the game and I recall him mentioning that.

Damn, Vin's got some serious math skills. I bet he does his own taxes.

Jason Repko = Pure Clutch.

Repko comes up with another hit. The 2nd must be his inning.

Repko!

Was Jason Repko everybody's pick to click tonight?

Repko is clutchier than a million Paul LoDucas driving stick-shifting VW Bugs over mountains.

Eric Milton's 2nd HR against the Dodgers.

I didn't know Weaver was pitching tonight.

That's embarassing. Milton has more homers tonight than he's given up

Hey, I thought Weaver wasn't pitching till tomorrow.

didnt milton homer off weaver?

God, Odalis pitching is so annoying.

I thought Milton GAVE UP home runs?!

456 - Paradise Lost...

Arizona lost 7-2. No ground will be lost on 2nd place

"Mrs. Milton found him boring as well..."

Since Steve is sitting for his Bar, I guess he can't invoke the GP on Milton's long ball.

OT: Did Baseball Toaster lose a blog? The lineup in the sidebar seems shorter.

465- Two lost, one returned. The Griddle, and Humbug gone, eponymous returned from beyond.

Hey, looks like SB might have an extra ticket for tomorrow.

Wow, that was ugly and beautiful, all at the same time.

tom browning?

The 15 most depressing words any Dodger fan can hear on the radio:

"We go to the fourth and for more play by play, here's Charlie and Rick."

Browning.

...Here's Rick and Al is much worse.

My vision of a dark future? Here's Rick and Bobby...

Kent ties it up. Milton is starting to look like hisself

Kent - Doing what he's paid to do. Hooray!

31 dongs (and counting) for Eric ...

Milton taketh away, then Milton giveth!

oh Merker. damn

Because he is sometimes listed as a comparable for James Loney (at least by me), here are Sean Casey's minor-league stats:

LowA (21) .380 .444 .329
HiA (22) .402 .544 .331
AA (23) .448 .598 .386
AAA (23) .439 .667 .361
AAA (24) .418 .463 .326

Rookie Seasons:
1998 .365 .417 .272 (96 games)
1999 .399 .539 .332 (151 games)

This doesn't take park or league factors into account.

so what we are beginning to talk about here, which would obviously need to run it's course over 162 games of baseball, is a guy who has to seriously be considered for the Most Valuable player in the National League

my take on kent while trying to sound like JT.

If the dodgers win the west, is he the mvp?(assuming he remains as consistent)

COLLECTIVE GROAN

Repko looked scrappy on that play, except without the "s".

Repko didn't need to do that

wow repko. two hands buddy.

Looks like that ball out-scrapped repko.

Error by Right Fielder Jason Repko? Someone explain please?

Error by Right Fielder Jason Repko? Someone explain please?

He just missed it. He stuck out his glove, and it flew right by.

Does this mean we never have to see him again now?

can of corn soft line drive, he just didnt catch it. he didnt even touch it.

Oh... Dropped flyball?

odalis being a team leader, giving repko the okay handshake and a nice slap on the ass.. or did i just imagine the slap on the ass?

Kind of hard to explain. Easy fly, ball missed the glove by 3" or so...had to have lost it in the lights.

Oh... Dropped flyball?

more like, missed the flyball.

I don't think he lost it in the lights I just think he was being lazy

Wow, I thought that only happened in video games.

WELCOME BACK MILTY!
*snaps back over his knee*

i mean, snaps bat.

Did Fox use sound effects for the broken bat? It sounded really loud.

2-0 Cardinals after a Pujols home run.

it did sound loud, but i dont think that was choreographed.

Took his eye off the ball, eh? Very scrappy indeed.

so how far does izzys BA drop until tracy moves him out of the top of the order?

503: I'm going to bet .255 or below.

I say never. We have never had a lead off man with power under the Tracy regime. Since we don't have anyone else who fits the prototypical leadoff man, it's Cesar or nothing.

505: Didn't Tracy bat LoDuca at leadoff the year he hit 25 HR's? I seem to recall lineups like that.

By my count, Lo Duca batted leadoff 47 times in 2001, the year hit 25 home runs.

Davey Lopes had a 28-homer season out of the leadoff spot.

4-1 Cardinals now. Padres have two on and no outs.

I'll leave the Padre-Cardinal updates to Vin.

Milton taketh away, then Milton giveth!

Milton taketh away, then Milton giveth!

It's a good thing Mike Morgan and Bobo Newsom didn't get tattoos.

Quantrill time in San Diego!

I'm amazed that no fan touched that ball.

Can anyone justify the Padres getting Quantrill?

Repko probably made up for the dropped ball, he just needs some help from Saenz

Why is my browser freaking on me?

come onnnn old maidd, get a run in.

If we don't score in this inning, we don't deserve to win this game.

Well, bringing Saenz in against a righty is a good start to the not scoring.

Except Milton's a lefty. Never mind.

with apologies to Steve I think Izzy should drag a bunt here.

or a single. whatever is easier

Way to go Izzy!!

odalis has gross hair.

Wow. Cesar just earned a repreive for the next night.

Izzy, are you back!!!!!!

Before Saenz's ground out, LA could've been expected to score 2.052 runs. But Olmedo knocked that down to 1.467 runs.
(Credit to TangoTiger: http://www.tangotiger.net/RE9902.html)

522 - Take that back, Brendan :0

HUZZAH... Izzy!!

All Hail Cesar?

HAIL CESAR!

...It's been awhile since I said that.

The Dodgers, for once, exceed expectations.

529

Stricken from the record, Jim

525

who has worse hair? Odalis or Pedro?

Apology accepted!

It's been noted I assume that the Padres are losing 4-2

Retrosheet's stats for this only go back to 1960, but the most home runs the Dodgers have ever gotten from their leadoff hitters was in 1979 when Lopes hit 28.

In 2001, the Dodger leadoff hitters hit 26. Lo Duca accounted for 14 of them. Grissom hit 6. Goodwin hit 3. Christensen hit 1. Beltre hit 1. Reboulet hit 1.

McKay Christensen. Ahh! Good times.

Now Odalis can't blame others tonight.

That let's Repko off the hook.

Now it's up to our unpreditable bullpen.

Kuo and Broxton, where are you?

Tracy needs to play perez more. defense be damned

533 - Depends on how you look at it since they are still slightly under the expectation when Saenz came up to bat.

Steve,
Vin is already in September mode where he is narrating the Padres game as it is going on.

538 - I agree. He makes some mistakes on the field but he has far more life in his bat than Izzy or Robles.

538 -

Tracy's lineup decisions are prioritized the following way.

1. Defense
2. Speed
3. Proffessionalism
4. Actual run production.

does anybody know a better station than 980 for the Dodger game in Ontario, CA?

McKay Christensen.

I recall him being really, really fast. that's alll i recall

Was that HBP a message or just lousy control?

Ouch.

Thank god for Griffey's balky hamstring.

Seeing Griffey lumber around center field now makes me wonder how he ever won all those Gold Gloves.

It looked like Griffey kind of gave up on that pop fly. Thanks, we'll take it.

See if 1570 or 1490 are carrying the game?

Or learn Spanish.

545.

Looked like lousy control. Fastball on the foot.

545-Terrible control. Thrown far outside straight into the dirt around Bradley's foot

Let's blow this game open so our bullpen has lot of breathing room.

545.

Looked like lousy control Fastball hit him on the foot.

545 - Latter.

Giants lead the Cubs 1-0 in the 6th. Noah Lowry squeezed in the only run. But he was taken out after five innings. He threw 114 pitches.

The Giants conveyor belt of relievers has begun.

well, that was a let down.

548 - He won those gold gloves because he used to be able to run at full speed. He now has to jog in all situations, for fear might blow out his hammy.

please bring schmoll in.

543- 590 played them last year, haven't tried them this year.

548- I guess you never saw Griffey in his prime. Phillips is terrible.

Dear Frank McCourt,

Please find us desiring you to find a radio station that people in the Inland Empire can listen to. Thank you.

Not that catching that 5-3 double play between static was all that exciting.

I can't believe we just replaced Perez with Saenz.

I guess Schmoll has moved ahead of Sanchez in the pecking order now.

Why doesn't Tracy replace Edwards with Robles for defense?

I'm glad Tracy isn't bringing in Alvarez for Griffey?

Schmoll snaps his streak. At least we have another run to give

Should have brought in Alvarez.

561 - Oh, I remember the fleet-footed, wall-climbing Griffey quite well. But he's looked so awful this season, it's blotting out those memories.

590 no good.

Come on Wilson, just one out please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Dodgers radio network
Station On Dial City
KFWB 980 Los Angeles
KWKW 1330 *Los Angeles
KDEF 1150 Albuquerque
KNZR 1560 Bakersfield
KMET 1490 Banning
KBOV 1230 Bishop
KROP 1300 Brawley/El Centro
KICO 1490 *Calexico/El Centro
XESD 920 *Enseneda, Mexico
KCBL 1340 Fresno
KTHR 1230 +Gallup, NM
KAOI 1110 +Kahului, Maui, HI
KAVL 610 Lancaster/Palmdale
KSFN 1140 Las Vegas
KRLV 1340 *Las Vegas
KPSI 920 Palm Springs
KWKU 1220 *Pomona/Ontario/Redlands
KPRO 1570 +Riverside
WSTA 1340 +St. Thomas, US Virgin Islands
KKAL 99.7 San Luis Obispo/Santa Maria
KHTS 1220 Santa Clarita
KCUB 1290 +Tucson, AZ
KVEN 1450 Ventura/Oxnard
WTTB 1490 +Vero Beach, FL
KWRN 1550 *+Victorville
KVBL 1400 Visalia
*Spanish
+Selected Games

Yeah, it looks like 590 KRLH may have gone under. They used to be like an inland empire mirror for 870 KRLA, plus Dodgers games. Thankfully, I haven't been east of Upland in a while.

alverez vs pena or
sanchez vs dunn?

uhhhh

Oh god.

At least this means Braz won't have to face Wily Mo. I'm guessing he can kill a guy with only one pitch.

steve, I would go with KMET 1490 if 590 isn't working for you

When will Tracy learn that Alvarez is not going to work out as our LOOGY.

Quick DePo!!! Trade for Dunn before he's announced!!

Looks like your best bet is 1570 if they are carrying the game Steve.

Sadly enough, I live in the Riverside area and the best reception at night is 980 (and that ain't saying much). You might be able to get 1490, but it doesn't come in very well where I am at. I doubt that you would even be able to pick it up in Ontario at night.

Tracy does not read Dodger Place apparently. Sarah Morris will straighten him out about Alvarez's LOOGY credentials.

That was a big out. Now Braz will only have to face bottom of the order in 9th.

This could be a huge win if we hold on and SD loses tonight.

If Dunn can't get a hit off of Sanchez, I don't want him!

Tracy doesn't really have any choices other than hitters, so he uses Alvarez. Tracy must use a LOOGY, I'd fully expect Choi pitching if Alvarez leaves somehow

So some station in Banning has taken over the famed KMET call letters?

I'm still not sure why Tracy didn't replace Edwards with Robles. Was it to get one extra at bat for Edwards at the risk of defense in later innings.

583..

Yep and it doesn't (from my understanding, I never heard the original KMET) play anything remotely close to what KMET played.

If you like smooth jazz and Dodger games, I guess it's the perfect station.

There can be AM and FM stations with the same call letters, but I think they have to be owned by the same company.

You can't stop Repko, you can only hope to contain him.

Never thought of Banning as a mighty metropolis.

586.

I'm pretty sure they have to be located in the same place, too.

Banning, population 23,652 in the 2000 census.

OLMEEEEDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

586 - At one time KLOS was KABC-FM.

Olmedo!

That should make the 9th inning much easier to take.

YES!!

Uh-oh. No more save Opp. Yhency can't pitch without a save on the line. Better get Erickson up in the pen.

Giddy-up!

YAY-HOO!

Thanks, Saenz. Braz will really appreciate that.

586 - wrong. That's the usual situation, but it's by no means a requirement. In SF KFRC-AM/FM are owned by two different companies - Infinity used to own both, but sold one off a few months back.

It's a save if the opposition is within 3 runs ...

There also used to be a KNX and an KNX-FM. The latter was famous for playing "soft rock". It was nothing but Cat Stevens and Dan Fogelberg and Harry Chapin.

KNX-FM had to be taken in small doses.

All Saenz are pointing to a win. Come on Braz ...

Still a save opp - tying run will come to the plate in the 9th.

In the good ol' days, the winning run had to be guaranteed to come to bat for a save to be recorded.

Wasn't KNX-FM 93.1?

580 - Yeah, this is a huge win. The Dodgers beat up on a 42-57 team, and the Padres just barely lose against the best team in the NL.

600-I thought the tying run had to be on deck. Huh.

599,
You're right. I just bounced over to the FCC site and it says call letters started out all belonging to one company because there were fewer companies at the time. So a station that started as an AM station would expand to FM and then add TV.

Hello.

Tomorrow night, the "Dodger Thoughts Adam Dunn Scouting Spectacular" will take place. Twelve DT readers will be attending the game at the same time, section 10, row S.

Make that eleven. One can't make it.

That means we have an extra ticket. I can't think of anything to do other than put it up for grabs, first come/first serve so here goes:

Anyone who wants the ticket, you can have it for $20.75, payable to me at the entrance near parking level 2 (Reserved entrance). You can e-mail me at: claytonl@ucla.edu. I'll be checking the e-mail between now and midnight.

Otherwise, I can't wait for tomorrow. It should be fun.

No hitter or not, Kent Merker is no Kent Tekulve :)

I went to Kent Mercker's no-hitter.

I just woke up here in London and turned on the mlb.tv just in time to see Saenz get ahold of one. It's 6 am and even though it's raining, it will be a good summer day now, right? I said, right, Braz?

93.1 is now KCBS-FM, the Arrow, Classic Rock.

603- When did that change?

608 - Bob, now that the curse of Jason Ellison has been reversed, maybe you should go.

607 - Bob, I actually work for Infinity in SF, so my little knowledge in this subject is kind of cheating on my part. ;)

612... it used to be the Arrow, Classic Rock. Now it's the local outlet for the "Jack" format, which is supposed to mimic an iPod, assuming you load your iPod with the most cliched song from every era.

612 - As the ads around Dodger Stadium will tell you, 93.1 is now the New Jack FM.

Playing what we want to play.

613,
The save rule's definition changed a lot at the beginning. I think it reached its present definition in the 1980s. At first it was really easy to get one. Then it became really hard. Now it's somewhere in between.

616, 617
This is why I use an iPod in my car instead of the radio.

1974 - Rule 10.2 - The save rule is amended slightly; no save is to be credited to a pitcher unless the tying run was on base or at the plate or unless he pitched three effective innings. (Before this a reliever was given a save if he maintained the lead, no matter what the score when he arrived.)

1975 - The save is refined once more: if the tying run is on deck, a pitcher is credited with a save.

O.K., I looked it up. 93.1 stopped being KNX-FM in 1983.

And, yes, it was pretty useless.

621,
Yeah, but where can you go now to listen to Air Supply?

Braz is going to do his best to make this interesting.

groan

The Padres are now 50-50.

Isringhausen just closed the game. Now Brazoban needs to close this and we're 4 games behind

Couple more line drives and we'll be out of this thing.

Attention San Diego fans: No damn sympathy here!

Now you are beating it to death Charlie ...

622 - The short answer is I'd rather have my air supply cut off.

Rick, can you find nothing interesting about the GAME to describe?

Has there been a division this bad this late in the season.

Four back. Amazing.

ahhhhh - 4 out

AL West on July 26, 1994

Team Name G W L PCT GB RS RA
Texas Rangers 100 48 52 .480 - 558 616
Oakland Athletics 99 45 54 .455 2.5 487 514
California Angels 101 42 59 .416 6.5 480 575
Seattle Mariners 97 40 57 .412 6.5 483 556

i guess we are buyers?

632 - Let's just say we're breasting the wave of mediocrity.

Dunn watch is over!!!!

Election day in San Diego too.

None of the candidates for mayor there are headed for .500 either, so there will be a runoff most likely.

In the strike year, Texas led the AL West with a 52-62 record

635. BOB, YOU ARE AMAZING!!!!!

632 - What are you talking about this division is lovely. 8 games under .500=4 games out. We are 4 games out by the way! I hate to be reactionary, but I am firmly in denial at this point.

636 - I suspect DePo follows Beane's philosophy, which is to always be buyers AND sellers.

Bob, as the master of baseball trivia, I ask you - has any team ever won a division with a sub-.500 record?

Wow, Repko was player of the game. There's sure some strange things going on in the NL west.

Meanwhile, it's 2 to 2 in the bottom of the 8th, Giants v Cubs. Runners on 1st and 3rd with 1 out.

Hah. Lost it in the lights.

Actually I was planning to make comparisons between this year's NL West and the 1994 AL West. The 1973 NL East was bad and the 1984 AL West had all 7 of its teams outscored on the season, although the Angles were just -1 and the Twins were -2. The first place Royals were -13. The Angels and Twins were both 81-81 that year.

643,
No.

The Rangers ended up on top in 1994 when the strike hit, but no team is recognized as a winner that year. The Rangers were in first at 52-62.

So the official worst winner remains the 1973 Mets at 82-79.

The 1981 Royals made it to the playoffs because of the split season from the strike. They were 50-53 overall.

After vetoing a trade to the Orioles, Phil Nevin grounded into a double play with 2 on in the 5th. In the 9th, representing the tying run, he lined out to left to end the game.

0-4 drops his batting average to .259

Does Repko look similar to Judd Nelson?

Oz, that's a good one. Hilarious.

The Padres, Dodgers, Giants, and Rockies have all had 8-game losing streaks this year. The Rockies have had an 8-game and a 10-game losing streak.

The Diamondbacks have not lost more than 5 in a row, although they've done that twice.

It's after midnight in Chicago and still plenty of peeps in the park. It took me a minute to realize they were at Wrigley and not pacbell.

648 - Amazingly, it's still a horrible idea to trade him for Sidney Ponson.

648-Was it a DP? My gameday screen had Nevin lining out with one on, two outs.

We are absolutely buyers, and here's why. We can win this division, but all that would do (with the current team) is guarantee a repeat of last year's debacle against a superior team. We would probably take on St. Louis again, because it looks like the WC will come out of the Central. Rather than repeat last year's pathetic outcome, DePo will be looking at matchups. Our playoff pitching rotation will probably be considered tough enough, but the offense isn't nearly strong enough, the defense is shaky, and the bullpen even more so.

My guess is DePo's priorities will not be what it takes to beat S.D., but what it takes to beat St. Louis.

I bet he will prioritize LOOGY and maybe an experienced closer so Yhency can temporarily go back to being set up man, or be gone. I don't know who the available LOOGY's are, but I know several closers are available--Guardado, Baez come to mind.

Then DePo will look at the offense. My guess there is he will see himself as having options. He can install a new LF, that's the obvious play. But if that doesn't work out, he can get a good hitter who can play any infield position, because he can move the other guys around.

He'll be willing to sacrifice Yhency, Antonio Perez, any of the Jasons except Phillips, and perhaps Izturis in this quest. We will not go into St. Louis with Perez or Valentin in LF. It will be someone who can play the position, Werth or Repko, with the missing offense being made up by a better hitter at one of the infield positions. Kent is not expendable, but he can play first, so if a deal for a good second baseman can be made, he'll go that way.

My point is, when it comes to this cruddy division, my guess is DePo is thinking que sera sera. But if it looks like we're going to win, he'll want at least to give St. Louis a fight, and overcome them if possible.

Vinny had him batting with two on, one out.

i am really curious to see what moves depo will make.

Gameday says: Eric Young strikes out, Loretta grounds out to third, Giles walks, Nevin lines out to left.

oh before i forget, suns game tomorrow is a businessman special 1PM EST/10AM PT

jackson will be on the mound. telecast via southernguide.tv

655. Even Depo probably recognizes that we can't compete with St. Louis this year even if we make trades. Does that mean he won't make any moves this year?

it might be tough to get to 700 comments. when is Xfrank coming back from his softball game? he can get us there.

jim tracy has a blackeye. I wonder who took a swing at him? choi, maybe?

What's the DT post record?

Matt Clement fell like the guy in the Bull costume in Bull Durham. both legs went stiff and Bam.

663

not exactly sure but I think 700 would break it. he might be close now but I think 700 would be over the top.

663 - Don't remember exactly, ddger, but we're about there now.

Pant, pant, pant...

should be we and not he in 665

655.I agree...with you.

we can compete, if guys come back and find their grooves, we can win this thing. it was nice to see izzy with 2 hits. first time in 31 games.

i think as important as all your points, we have to do something at catcher. to depo maybe that means upgrading other spots on offense and sliding in a kid who can bat 8th and play solid defense.

it's the pitching, pitching, pitching. these guys are locking people down and the results are coming.

667 - Hopefully the corrections to tired-eyed late-night comments will be enough to carry the day.

Heer's to crossing into the exclusive 700 club!

I feel like such hypocrite but I dig Jeff Kent now. I even like his interview style.

670

I'm that transparent? I do resemble that remark

662: But it's Choi... If he hits him, he'd knock him out. He might have swung and missed, or decided it was better to watch Tracy walk into a door jam.

668. Dodgers have one in Navarro.

why cant kent be 32 instead of 37... he is the type of player you build your lineup around.

i guess i never really fully appreciated kent.

i think we should keep giving him one year deals until he totally has nothing left. kinda like what boston did with wakefield this year.

Jim Tracy was probably re-enacting the climatic scene from "Oedipus Rex," and trying to put his own eye out when he found out that he's married to Choi's mother.

Going to have to see the Vinny interview on Real Sports when it re airs.

If we keep getting closer to SD before trading deadline, Depo might just say that we don't need to make any moves to win this division.

Peavy goes for the Padres. if he loses tomorrow I think the Padres crater and will finish in third at the end of the season. Just a feeling,

675

I think you can do that because his numbers at second won't become league avg until about age 49.

getting bradley back is almost like a deadline move.

getting drew back in begining of sept is like a waiver move, but only better.

680

I don't think they should drew down for rehab. just tell him to walk a couple times a game. Hell don't let him swing the first week back.

Are we trying for 700 actual comments, or for 700 on the counter at the top?

If Dunn doesn't even play against LH pitching, then is he worth our top prospects?

St. Louis is not unbeatable--mostly because it looks like the Cards' injury wave is underway now. Rolen still out, Walker now, Molina, Sanders. They might not be the same team they were in May.

but the Dodgers need to be better than they are now in order to beat St. Louis.

683

that is a great question. I say No. Jackson and Perez and maybe a lower level or duaner.

I don't know his career splits L/R but this season plus his lack of defense says you shouldn't trade our top guys for him. And I really, really like Dunn

Can we beat STL without Gagne even if we make it to the playoffs?

685

Odalis won't pitch more than once(or even that many) against STL.

Right there makes them better against the Cards in a short series.

683 - If Dunn doesn't play against left handed pitching, it's because he playsfor a bad manager. One who might do something crazy like, say, hit him sixth.

683- Jayson Werth is super-terrific, but he's not Willy-Mo, or Austin Kerns. If Tracy pulled a Choi on Dunn, he'd look back fondly on the day when he only had a black eye.

682

700 actual

680: But read the Dodger notes re Drew:

Drew said he was told by doctors that there was a "60 percent chance" that the wrist would not heal correctly on its own and ligaments would then be at risk of coming detached from the ulnar styloid bone -- a situation that likely would have prevented the outfielder from returning this season.

http://tinyurl.com/8euc2

Not good...

In that same notes column someone decided it would be a good idea to advertise Dodger Statium's park factors. Possibly this is a move to head off the Plaschkers monster and the beginning of an attempt to explain some of Depo's philosophy to the laypeople (and Plaschkers).

The Cardinals beat the Padres. The Padres are still better than the Dodgers. Ergo, I think the Cardinals are better than the Dodgers.

I know that this doesn't work correctly, but I think the Dodgers will need some luck to win that series.

The Dodgers are helped by not having to face Chris Carpenter in the series.

I'd like top have Dunn then we could have the Big Donkey with the Big Korean.(wow I'm running low on things to say)

689. Is Tracy any different with his lineup logic?

It's too early to look ahead to facing St. Louis. The Dodgers are still in 3rd place in the NL west.

Besides, let's not forget that J.D. Drew may be back in septempber.

We need a big start by Jackson tomorrow to boost his trade value so that we can land Dunn. The Dunn deal won't be done until this series is over, so he won't face his old team.

The difference is that I am far more likely to put out a hit on Jim Tracy than Jim Narron if he pulls a Choi on Dunn.

Even if we got Dunn, Tracy will most likely sit him against LH and also against RH with certain arm angles.

true, if dunn is traded it won't be until the deadline.

a dominant start by Jackson wouldn't hurt.

Giants lead the Cubs 3-2 in the 11th. It's a long night in Chicago. 2:45 rain delay.

It's time for Jamie Walker!

Jackpot. I was hoping Bob or Jim would take 700 but if it falls to me so be it. well done all.

Tyler Walker. Can't even remember the guy's name.

Going back to James Loney's comparables:

BP's top 2 comps are the 2003 version of Adrian Gonzalez and the 2002 version of Justom Morneau.

Morneau (21) .298 .356 .474
Eastern League, 2002

Gonzalez (20) .307 .368 .409
Southern League, 2003

Loney (21) .281 .356 .396
Southern League, 2005

Both Gonzalez and Morneau showed more power than Loney in the minors, but Loney appears to be a more patient hitter and a superior defender.

I just realized why I can't find John Olerud's minor league statistics. He never played minor-league ball between college at Washington State, and jumped straight from the draft to the Bigs in 1989. Loney probably does not have a good comparable in John Olerud.

Dunn is an established big leaguer that Tracy already gushes over. He's not going to go choi on Dunn.

701

I would think they would just continue the game before or after one of their day games. why stay until 2:45am

Re: Loney

Interestingly, there was some debate whether Olerud would pitch or hit in the majors. Loney was a former pitcher as well, iirc.

Thanks, Brendan, but you earned it.

a couple things...

re: post-rock/metal

i LOVE explosions in the sky. they're incredible. i saw them play a small room in garden grove a couple years ago, and my heart was seriously palpitating for 10 minutes after they played. it was amazing. then on the other hand i saw them at the knitting factory and people were talking and i got annoyed.

i also like a silver mt. zion, but godspeed doesn't do it for me. sigur ros and mum are also pretty good. what's m83 like?

also, as far as heavy stuff goes, isis is also incredible. pelican too, but they're not as brilliant as isis i think. there's a band called envy from japan who are also pretty good, and city of caterpillar. actually a lot of bands on the level-plane label are pretty good. i really haven't been staying current with that stuff for the past year or two though.

re: baseball stuff... first off, wilson alvarez is NOT a LOOGY, trace. secondly, adam dunn got a nice jump on a ball in left field tonight i thought... i think it was oscar robles' fly ball, maybe? maybe he's not so bad out there, hehe.

also, boy do the reds have a terrible bullpen.

Dunn (2002-2004)
vs LHP (.241 / .363 / .483) in 468 AB
vs RHP (.249 / .393 / .509) in 1016 AB

This year the split seems somewhat wider:

vs LHP (.196 / .315 / .486) in 107 AB
vs RHP (.274 / .428 / .630) in 219 AB

Tracy prefers defense and Dunn will eventually play into Tracy's doghouse like Choi and Perez.

I think Olerud spent his first time in the minors ever this year rehabbing an injury.

707:

He had a 15-0 record as a pitcher one year. He set all the records, basically.

712 - correct.

Hey, I'm Babe Ruth tonight with #714!

708

800 is all yours, Jim.

Vishal et al: You know what's cool about this blog? For me it's seeing that so many have a true interest in baseball, of course, but also music. I've always been sorta depressed about the 95% or so of the population who are content to listen to what is on the radio, and leave it at that.

Think you all would've felt pretty much the same way about disco that I did...

715 - Yeah, but with 715, you became Al Downing.

Missed the last 7 innings of the game tonight. Had a late softball game tonight. Glad the Dodgers pulled it out. I had a feeling the Dodgers would score alot of runs with Milton pitching. With the Padres losing and D-Backs losing, we creep to within 4 games of first place. 4 games out and still in the month of July, I wonder if anybody not named Bob is still in "acceptance"?
We won the softball game 19-11, all my hits seemed to find someone's glove or knee tonight. I hit a smash up the middle right off the pitchers knee and he had to leave the game. Not a good thing, but luckily he can still walk on it.
vr, Xei

DT Over/Under Challenge Update:

7/26, Cincinnati vs Odalis Perez
Actual: 7 IPs
.........................
Colorado Blue: 6-2/3
Joekings: 7 (Win)
.........................
Louis in SF: 6-1/3
Xeifrank: 6-2/3 (Win)
.........................
Howard: 7 (Win)
CT Bum: N/A
.........................
Standings...
Louis in SF 4-2-2
Howard 6-4-2
Joekings 4-3-1
CT Bum 5-4-3
Xeifrank 5-5-2
Colorado Blue 4-8-0

Next Game: Wed, Cincy vs Jeff Weaver

697-It's too early to look ahead to facing St. Louis. The Dodgers are still in 3rd place in the NL west.

Just the opposite, in my opinion. It's not worth winning the NL West if we're just going to get eaten alive in the playoffs. I'd rather finish third if we can't beef up the Dodgers enough to play with the big boys. Either we let San Diego or Arizona have the privilege of being torn to shreds, or we go into it to win it all--or at least have a chance to. I don't think we're unable to trade our way into that position--not at all. It might cost too much, but it's doable in theory.

yeah. the best thing about this blog though is that i think the average intelligence level of the posters is about 200% higher than say, the dodger.com message board. that makes for better discussions.

and jon's a pretty bright guy too, for a stanford alum ;)

But the playoffs are a crapshoot. The 82-79 Mets won the NLCS and pushed Oakland to seven games in the World Series.

With all this talk about how large the post total is, and what number each post happens to be on, isn't this record going to be tainted? Won't we need an asterisk?

-723

With the WC now, winning 3 series makes it tougher to do with a poor team...

724. i'd say it only becomes an issue if we reach 756 :)

721/723. Gotta agree heavily with Bob on this one. The goal is to just MAKE the playoffs. The playoffs itself are indeed a crapshoot and in a 7 game series which is a very small sample size, anything can happen. The Cards outfield is pretty banged up, and if Carpenter comes back down to earth they are very beatable. It would be a shame to "let" the Padres or the D-Backs have the division title just because the division winner will be the weakest of the four teams making the NL playoffs. Makes no sense at all.
vr, Xei

724 - Not really, FM...All of the times we have had high comment total, there was discussion about the number of posts.

Jim...it's all payola. I get really mad when I hear really incredible bands..and then when I turn on the radio....Simple Plan...Good charlotte..(insert band you hate here).

I still need an iRiver to play my massive music collection. For now I'll have to stick to my mp3 playing radio.

FM...not if we get to 800!

724, 728: Think of the metaposts as "cheap" home runs that ring off of the fair (or foul, if you prefer) poles a foot and a half above the railing. Surely Ruth and Aaron had some of those, right?

727--
Fortunately, goal #1, finishing first in the NL west, is abetted, not impeded, by focusing on goal #2. Another way of looking at what I'm saying is, set the bar higher than merely enough to beat the woeful Padres. We might win the division with a .500 record, but I hope we go into the playoffs if we do with something other than a .500 team.

Examples of teams that focused on goal #2 successfully include the Boston Red Sox of 2004, and the Arizona Diamondbacks of 2001.

What I really want to know from the experts is, if DePo were to trade for a LOOGY, who should he go after?

I basically grew up with free form radio. TO me, that meant album cuts you might not otherwise hear. The DJ would be free to play what he wanted to play. I'm sure Uncle Joe Benson loves Stairway to Heaven, but does he really get excited about playing it for the 3 millionth time? And then inserting the phrase `Classic Rock' three time per minute? It's gotta curl his toes.

Well, at lest I still have Jim Ladd.

As an aside, I don't have satellite radio, but I have little doubt to the same old pablum, minus the commercials.

according to an upcoming article in SI, Manny Ramirez has asked to be traded because he he has no privacy in Boston.

where doews he expect to be traded? KC or Tampa Bay.

Would Boston trade him to the Angels? that would solve their DH problems and how.

If we are to go far into playoffs, don't we need dominant starter or two (remember Johnson, Schilling for Arizona and Martinez, Schilling for Boston). Our four starters are pretty much similar and in the playoffs we only need about 3 so our depth is not that much of an advantage. I'd rather have 2 great and 2 average starters in the playoffs. In the playoffs, pitching is more paramount. Also our weak offense is so easy to shut down. We need more consistency from our hitters unless all of them get hot at same time for the whole playoff series.

734
Jim, I'm not a subscriber, but I've rented a few cars that had XM Satellite Radio, and it seems like the answer to the prayers of folks like you and me. You would like the rock station called Deep Tracks, which would avoid Stairway in favor of songs like Gallows Pole. Beyond that, if you sometimes want something other than rock, XM has stations dedicated to great jazz, country, bluegrass, early rock, vocal pop and classical. Most of these stations play no ads, but unlike "Jack" they use DJs whose role is to explain what music was just played.

My Rio (just like an iPod, but w/out Apple hype) is my most treasured possession right now. It's the radio station they're readying for me in heaven, where I can jump from Hank Williams to Carmen McCrae to Elton John to Tony Bennett to the Ramones to Horace Silver to Louis Armstrong to Johnny Cash to Steely Dan to...

Odalis has not allowed a walk in his last three starts. wow

729 - Also, while I'm happy as hell to see Sony get fingered, it won;t change a thing. Payola is just an extension of promotional efforts, and the companies with the big bucks will continue to have the wherewithal to push inferior product.

But...Indie Rock lives! Long live Indie Rock!

736

Penny and Lowe both have come up big in the post season. No reason to think they could not do it again.

Jim, you should really look into XM. my brother in law is a music freak and he is in love with it. won't leave his car.

Thanks, DzzrtRatt. Awfully glad to hear that. There's hope!

740 - I guess one reason I haven't is because I don't spend that much time in my car, and have tons on CD's when I do, and for playing at home.

I did subscribe to DirecTV within 3 months of its debut (about 10 years ago!). Unfortunately, its content is basically cable multiplied.

I'm going to have to check out XM, though...I really miss good radio.

742

you can get it so you can plug it into your car and then take it out and plug it into a home receiver as well.

Dzratt the question on just making the playoffs can not be underestimated especially for this team. If we get in and even if we lose but can make it a series an argument could be made that the season in many ways was far more successful than expected especially with all of the injuries. Given the how weak the division is, most likely our first round opponent will not be the cards, but will be the winner of the East and the wild card will play St. Louis. I just want to know if the Dunn thing will really happen.

What a bunch of quitters. 744? That's all you guys have in you? Feh.

I'll sac bunt one.

Jim,

If you're an indie rock guy, then you really might enjoy the XM service. There's one station that's essentially devoted to it. The first time I turned it on, they were in the middle of a Cat Power cut. When's the last time you heard her on terrestrial radio?

we don't need a loogy. the only person i would tolerate trading away to get a loogy for is erickson.

besides, we can just bring up kuo.

Great discussion last night,people. Way to merge sports and music!

One last post to reach 750. Nice job, folks.