We, as Dodger fans, should treasure Vin as long as he is able to broadcast Dodger games. However pitiful the Dodgers may be on the field, we have the best baseball announcer with us in this century calling the game for us... and that's pretty good...

Jon, I wrote something last night that I would like to put in here. I started out to write about Sandy, but I ended up with this instead. I didn't write it really, as you will see in a minute, I assembled it more than wrote it. I hope my words don't get in Vin's way.

Game from the past:

"It is 9:46 P.M. Two and two to
Harvey Kueen-- one strike away."

All Dodger fans who have heard those words know who said them and the game in which they were said. Vin's call of the ninth inning of Sandy's perfect game was as magnificient as the performance it described.

When Sandy went out to the mound in the ninth, Vin set the scene:

"Three times in his sensational
career has Sandy Koufax walked
out to the mound to pitch a
fateful ninth when he turned in a
no-hitter. But tonight, September
9th, 1965, he made the longest
walk of his career, I'm sure,
because through eight innings
he has pitched a perfect game.
He has struck out 11, has retired
24 consecutive batters."

The first hitter in the inning for the Cubs was Chris Krug, who struck out on a 2-2 pitch. The voice of Vin during the at bat:

"There are 29,00 people in the
ballpark and a million butterflies:
29,139 paid. Koufax into his
windup and the 1-2 pitch: fastball,
fouled back, out of play.

In the Dodger dugout Al Ferrara
gets up and walks down the runway,
and it begins to get tough to be
a teammante and sit in the dugout
and have to watch."

The second batter of the inning was Joe Amalfitano, who later coached for the Dodgers. Amalfitano struck out on three pitches, but even the quick at bat allowed Vin time for poetry:

"Sandy ready, into his windup
and the strike-one pitch: curve
ball, tapped foul, 0 and 2, and
Amalfitano walks away and shakes
himself a little bit, and swings
the bat. And Koufax, with a new
ball, takes a hitch at his belt
and walks behind the mound. I
would think that the mound at Dodger
Stadium right now is the lonliest
place in the world."

Harvey Kuenn, pinch hitting for Cub pitcher Bob Hendly was the final out. Vin's words were as perfect as Sandy's pitches:

"You can't blame the man for
pushing just a little bit now.
Sandy backs off, mops his forehead,
runs his left index finger along
his forehead, dries it off on his
pants-leg. All the while, Kuenn
just waiting.

Now Sandy looks in. Into his windup,
and the 2-1 pitch to Kuenn: swung on
and missed, strike two. It is 9:46
P.M. Two and two to Harvey Kuenn--
one strike away.

Sandy into his windup. Here's the
pitch: swung on and missed, a perfect
game."

After informing his audience of the strikeout and perfect game, there was silence from Vin while the crowd roared in celebration. When he spoke after a lengthy pause, he said:

"On the scoreboard in right field
it is 9:46 P.M. in the city of the
angels, Los Angeles, California,
and a crowd of 29,139 just sitting in
to see the only pitcher to hurl
four no-hit, no run games. He has
done it four straight years, and
now he capped it: on his fourth
no-hitter, he made it a perfect
game."

Vin, so did you. Thank you.

Thanks to Charles Einstein, whose Third Fireside Book of Baseball contains a transcript of Vin's call, to Bob Timmermann, and Jon

There are tragedies in life that people go through. Losing a loved one is very difficult, but you just sort of move along when you realize that there isn't much else you can do.

Scully's father also died when he was quite young. I think Scully was 5 or so. His mother remarried.

I was hoping for a video stream at the HBO site, but I guess not. We came to the conclusion a while back that paying extra for movies we never watched made no sense, so we canceled that portion of our cable service.

In news of other icons, Peter Jennings of ABC News has passed away from lung cancer.

What has been great about Vin over the years through the good and the bad-folks just remember 67 and 68, years where the Dodgers were not in contention after Memorial Day. This year is nothing like that. What Scully has always offered more than anything else for me is a real sense of history and a connection to events and players past. Unfortunately even the best announcers today just seem to phrase and analyaze every event as if nothing before it could ever compare. It seems that for Giant announcers every homer that Barry ever hit was deeper, longer and more important than anyone before him. And on antional broacasts hyperbole reigns supreme. I hope within the next two years a Dodger team can give us and Vinneie a world championship before he retires.

I had one of those God-forbid things happen to me a few years back, similar to Scully. I admire his faith and stoicism, and of course I love the guy. But I have to say, as I see it, there is a connection between "staying within yourself" and the ongoing feeling of being burdened. When I suffered this enormous and unexpected loss, I didn't withdraw into myself. I found various ways to express the grief--church, therapy, friends, taking my kids on a trip, reconnecting with family and friends and just kind of talking about it whenever it came up. Crying once in awhile. And, over a period of a few years, because the emotions were released and expressed, the burden got lighter. The life of this person who was gone, and what she meant to me, was seen whole, in a balanced way, like a story with a beginning, middle and end. It makes me smile now to think of her, grateful for the time we had and for what she taught me, things that have come in handy as my life has moved on to other joys and sorrows. As a priest told me outside the ICU at a particularly horrific moment, "the same God who gives us life, gives us death." Those words rang true then and even more now. We're put on this earth to love people, but we can't possess them. They are possessed by the cycles of the earth, as are we all.

Anyway, Vin, if you're reading this, know that generations of Southern Californians call you friend, and will be glad to help you lighten your load anytime.

Talk about a tough act to follow. Wonderful reading, 6, simply wonderful.

My dad left at age five. We stayed in sporadic contact but we never saw a baseball game together. He remarried and became the perfect father to my half-brother. I haven't seen either one in nearly a decade.

Scully said that every now and again, someone will come up to him and say hearing his voice reminds of days gone by with dad in the ballpark. Not for me. When I hear Vin, I recall joy mixed with sorrow that a dad wasn't there--by choice--to share in the experience. And I cherish that my own son is old enough now to hear Scully's voice and come into the room and say, "Who's playing the Dodgers, dad?" And I tear up every time. Every single time.

An honor and a privelege, Mr. Scully. If I'm not lucky enough to tell you verbally as I did with Chick Hearn, this will have to do. The REAL Sports is on permanent save in the TiVo.

I have to agree with Bob (#3) on this one. My own father passed away a little over a year ago, and I've felt pretty much that way ever since. And I don't think it's necessarily at odds with what dRatt says in #6. It's not that you don't deal with the loss or the grief, it's how you choose to deal with it.

I don't think the way that Vin has chosen to deal with his terrible losses is a 'failing' at all, at least as it relates to his role as a public figure. It lends him modesty and dignity— traits that seem old-fashioned these days, and are all too rare in a touchy-feely, therapeutic culture. And I think that sense of modesty and dignity shapes him as a broadcaster, helps make him as great and distinctive as he is. You won't hear him yelling like Russ Hodges did on a certain afternoon in '51. And that's something that I've always loved about him.

How it affects him as a private person, I cannot say, and I don't think it's for any of us to say, either. I have no desire to draw back the curtain on his life any more than he wishes to let us.

As for myself, I didn't see (nor do I still see) how letting myself go to pieces over my father's death (at least in public) would have done any good. On the morning of his funeral, I was determined to keep a grip on myself and act like a grown up because I was about to face a lot of our friends, some of whom had known my parents for 50 years or more. And they wanted more than anything else to know that we would be all right, and that my brother and I would take care of Mom now that Dad was gone.

Now, you could clearly make the case that losing a child or one's spouse before her time is a different matter from losing an elderly parent. But I do believe that there is a case to be made for maitaining one's dignity when faced with private pain, and I respect Vin's decision to carry his burdens as he has.

My father is very ill. Who knows what the future holds, but right now it looks like our last fully-engaged time together will have been watching the Choi three-homer game. I'll take it.

This thread needs to come with a warning sticker, however; no easy way to start a Monday morning.

My post in 3 was just a quick summary because I didn't want to go into a lot of details. But if anyone outside of here wants to talk about such matters, contact me elsewhere.

I really wish I hadn't become something of an expert in this field. Or as expert as anyone can be.

9 Sam, my thoughts are with you at this difficult time.

Thanks, Bob, and same back to you and all who've dealt or are dealing with life's curveballs. And I think I'll take the liberty of taking Bob's kind words as speaking for all who post and comment here (so no need to pile on . . .)

What's with all the great LA announcers and tragedies in their families? Chick lost all of his kids, and Scully too?

Vin Scully lost his wife and one son, but he has several other children and numerous grandchildren. He likes little kids a lot, which accounts for the innumerable shots of little kids in the stands at Dodger games.

I think Vin is sincerely excited to see all those kids. It gets a little tiring for me, but I'm not the one behind the microphone.

Hey SB in 7, my experience is similar. Including the opportunity to personally express my thanks to Chick but not to Vin. We who grew up in LA are so fortunate to have been able to hear both of those men calling games on the radio. Vin's announcing in particular just seemed to be a type of glue that brought LA together at times. He has been more than amazing. I think even the teachers at school would cut students a little slack and allow them to listen to day games on the radio cause it was Vin Scully calling the game.

Good comments. Thanks.

13 It's also reminiscent of Johnny Carson, who is a figure comparable to both Vin and Chick. On his last program, he spent part of it showing some lovely photos his son had taken -- the son who had died in an accident, and that, up til then, he had never spoken about on the air. The emotion just crested to the surface, and while watching it, you felt the weight of it being released. It was an exceptional moment. All these years, Carson had to sit there night after night, being clever and delivering for his huge audience, holding in whatever grief he felt inside. Now, he didn't have to hold back anymore. For just a few minutes, the person inside came out. And then, he was gone from the airwaves, looking very much like a free man.

Meanwhile, back in baseball land, Ismael Valdez (FL) v. Byung-Hung Kim (CO) in Colorado today. I have a strange urge to watch that game. And I see that poor Ismael doesn't even make the Selected Ex Dodgers page on Dodger Thoughts. My how the mighty have fallen.

That's a doubleheader in Denver today. The Marlins had to fly in from Cincinnati for it and they head back to Miami after the game.

18 - LOL. That's mostly a function of how recent the player was a Dodger - I mainly just moved people down from the list right above it after they were gone.

19 Can't be fun for the Marlins travel-wise, although they have a pretty good chance of taking both games from the double Kim attack

I think Jon should just set up a "former Dodgers on the Padres" sidebar.

21
The Marlins, along with the Padres, put in more air miles than any other NL team I think. The Marlins don't even have any teams close enough to them to bus to except MAYBE for the interleague games with the D-Rays.

I would think that teams in the NL Central and East always have to be wary about the trips to Denver since the weather is so erratic there and they only make one trip. The NL West teams have an easier time with makeup games.

Late in the 2001 season my mom & dad came to LA for a long weekend visit. We did all sorts of things during their visit, theatre etc. One of our activities was to attend a Dodgers v. Cardinals game for which we had seats just six rows behind the home dugout. The Dodgers even won. After the game my mother told me that she didn't have many things left on her "to do list", but that, for some reason, attending a game at Dodger stadium had been one of them and it meant alot to her that I had made that happen. I was stunned by the fatalistic nature of her comment, especially since I had just purchased the tickets on a whim and had no idea she was so interested in going.

Monday morning she & my dad drove back to Placerville. As they pulled away from the curb I turned to my wife and said that I didn't know how much longer my folks would be around, but that when they were gone, this would be a weekend I would look back on as a special time. I had no idea how prophetic I was being. A week later my dad called to say that my mom had suddenly passed away from a ruptured artery. The next morning as my wife and I were driving north to be with my dad we heard on the radio that two planes had crashed into the world trade center in New York and another into the Pentagon.

For me those two events have always been eerily blended into a time to surreal to sort out. What remains clear, however, is the pivotal role the Dodgers played in my last shared experience with my mother.

Leading off the top of the seventh in Colorado, Marlins up 3-2, Dontrelle Willis just pinch hit for Josh Beckett. (grounded out). Is the idea here that he'll stay in and pitch an inning or three, saving the bullpen troops for a long double header? Or am I just being silly.

I think McKeon was saving his bench. Lo Duca can't play because of a bad hamstring, but he wasn't DLed and another catcher was brought up from the minors.

Didn't Willis pitch Saturday?

Me silly -- Antonio Alfonseca comes in for Beckett.

McKeon has effectively just three players to pinch hit with: Harris, Easley, and Encarnacion. Lo Duca can't play and Jorgenson is the extra catcher

McKeon is obviously waiting for those important points of the game when Lenny Harris is crucial.

If it were me, I think I'd save Dontrelle Willis for those important moments of the game.

Lenny Harris must have his AARP card by now.

crap the suns game is on right now.

good news, greg miller has been promoted to AA and will pitch tonight after jackson.

http://www.southernguide.tv/channel1.html

No way to get a bigger screen on the Sun's game isther, Nate?

just double click on it. or right click and go to zoom and go to full screen.

i am going back and forth between threads. which thread should be the suns thread?

Thanks, Nate.

Doesn't matter to me. I'm only going to be able to squeeze in another at bat, I think. Jackson is pitching well.

The Rockies sure are making this fun for the Marlins. They went to extra innings in the first game, making Florida use more relievers than they cared to, and prolonging the start of the next game and ultimately the time the plane takes off. To make matters worse, Colorado won

And you thought Jim Tracy used weird lineups....

Ozzie Guillen has A.J. Pierzynski batting third tonight and Timo Perez fifth. The latter has an OPS this season of .580

Whenever i'm in LA i tune in to see if i can hear Vin on the radio. He legendary status is like Beethoven's, so far ahead of his contemporaries it's unfair to even make a comparison. There will never be anyone better.

Appreciate the sentiments in this thread.Baseball is one of those things that wind through your life.I'm taking my three sons(not the old tv show) to Atlanta August 18 for the Dodger game.Should be a great experience.
The Suns game has to cheer the heart of the direst anti-prospect curmudgeon.Edwin Jackson :8 innings of shutout ball with 8 k's,James Loney who is En fuego!! with the only run of the game driven in.Greg Miller with a save,2k's in 9th inning work.The future is glowing!

Former Dodger player and Fremont High star Gene Mauch has passed away at age 79.
http://tinyurl.com/b78g8

Of course Mauch is better known for his tragicomic managerial career, but he broke in with the Dodgers during World War II. He convinced Leo Durocher to stick to managing fulltime when he broke Durocher's hand by rifling a short throw at second base.

Gene Mauch invented the term "little ball."

The collapse of his Phillies in '64 is one of my first vivid baseball memories. I read everything I could get my hands on about it. I guess I was preparing for my career as a Dodger fan.

What happened to him, and to the Angels in '86 -- that was insane. But he was always a man about these things. Mauch didn't punch out marshmallow salesmen. He was a classy guy. RIP.

Thought I would duck in my last write-up of a Sandy game here. Undoubtedly Vin was in the broadcast booth for this one, but since I was not a native, I did not have my transitor with me. For the first and only time, I was in attendance at Dodger Stadium for a game pitched by Sandy. I had travelled cross country to be there, hitting major league parks along the way. I saw a few games at Dodger Stadium during the August, 1965 homestand. It was a strange time to visit LA; the Watts riots were raging at the time, and the tense atmosphere both in and outside the ballpark was beyond the normal and healthy tension of a terrific National League pennant race.

The date was August 14, 1965 and Sandy threw a gem against the Pittsburgh Pirates. Trouble was, the Dodgers couldn't score against Don Cardwell. The game went to extra innings as a scoreless tie. Sandy retired the Bucs in the tenth, allowing only an infield single. Cardwell retired the first two hitters in the bottom half of the inning, bringing up Sandy's spot in the lineup. Walt Alston let Sandy hit. Cardwell walked Koufax and the following batter, Wes Parker. When Jim Gilliam lifted a weak popup to rightfielder Roberto Clemente, it looked for sure the game would go to the eleventh. Clemente reached for the ball and it glanced off his glove for a game ending error. With two outs, Koufax was running on the play and he scored the only run the Dodgers needed.

At the time I was cheering wildly for the Dodger win. Sadly though, despite seeing Clemente play many times both in person and on t.v., my most enduring memory of him is seeing him drop that easy flyball. The Dodgers definately needed the win, but looking back on it I wish that it would have come about on a clean base hit. Clemente was a great player and man, and it is sad to remember a time when he failed more than all the times he succeeded both on and off the field.

How good was Sandy that night? 12 strikeouts, no walks and 5 singles allowed. How good was he that year? 26 wins, 8 losses, 27 complete games 2 saves, 335 innings pitched, 382 strikeouts, 71 walks and a 2.04 ERA. Thankfully, my enduring memories of Sandy are of him when he was at his best. Those stats show he was at his best almost every time he took the mound.

Thanks to retrosheet, Bob Timmermann and Rob.

Well, thanks again, Stan. These tales of Sandy have been wonderful fun. In fairness to our returning Bob, I will say that you did manage to pick a far more manageable task than RDGC. Leaving aside the question of volume, making Sandy Koufax's greatest games engaging does not present quite the same challenge as presenting some of the fishwrap specials Timmermann has been stuck with.

Stan,
Thanks for picking up the torch.

I'm envious that you are writing about games you actually remember. There haven't been many of those for me.

RDGCs will run for the rest of the season through September 27, when I run out of seasons.

Lots of highs and lows this week.

Here is one more thing that may be of interest. Here is a quote from Sandy about Vin:

"It may sound corny, but I enjoyed listening to Vin call a game almost more than playing in them. He's been a special broadcaster for a lot of years and he's been wonderful to listen to for a lot of years. He definately is the All Century broadcaster as far as I'm concerned."

Source: Vin Scully quotes by Baseball Almanac, found on the web after a google search.

I agree; RIP Gene. As far as bitter disappointment within his profession, he had more than his fair share. He seemed to hold up despite it all though.

Stan from Tacoma

In discussions re the hypothetical new DC stadium, someone mentioned the notion of selling reduced price 5th inning or later tickets. Further, it was stated that this is a big thing in Japan. Anyone ever hear of that?

I don't know what my kids' schedules will be like in 4 years but, right now, that'd be perfect for me because I'm a 10 min walk from the site and I'm often surfacing around the fifth inning or so.

Thanks everyone for the Scully memories. I'm struck by the frequent references to our fathers in these reminiscences. I too lost my father at a relatively early age, so I treasure memories of my father playing and watching baseball with me. In fact, I remember somehow my father got us onto the field at Dodger Stadium before a game when Koufax was working as a broadcaster for NBC. I actually got an autograph from Sandy (and from Shag Crawford, the umpire). What a thrill for a kid, and I am sure looking back now from the vantage of fatherhood myself, what a thrill for my dad that must have been to give his son so much. Anyhow, I mention this because I sometimes see Vinnie as a kind of second father in my life, in that I learned so much about how to live from him after my own dad passed away. Not that Vin delivers explicit lessons about moral choices, but simply from his choice of words, the things he approves and disapproves of, the stories he tells, the learning he values, all this instilled in me some life lessons that I have never forgotten and always found valuable. Long may he continue to bring us such warmth and joy.

I read that they just started selling discounted tickets in Japan for latecomers the last year or so. They need to get people in the seats there any way they can.

In the 12 RDGCs of the Koufax years (1955-66), Koufax appears in seven of the games.

SO, I've learned tonight that Gene Mauch was the inaugural manager for the Montreal Expos. So far, no reference to that fact on the Nationals' web page. Will be interesting to see if they pay some appropriate homage (they start a two week road trip tomorrow so they certainly have time to plan something for the return). Washongton has gone obnxiously far out of its way not to acknowledge its Montreal roots. In a sport that cherishes the past, that strikes me as a bad decision. That's one thing that having an owner could rectify, or at least it's one thing that probably won't be rectified w/o an owner.

Hi Bob,

You are welcome, though the pleasure has been all mine reading your posts all season long. I look forward to your return. I don't know your age, but one of the good things about getting older is remembering the remarkable games from the past. Sometimes though my memory is not all that great. Thanks to retrosheet I can remember quite a bit more clearly. For some reason I thought the Clemente game was pitched by Don Drysdale. I remember seeing Don get felled like a tree by a line drive back through the mound at I thought Dodger Stadium. For some reason I thought it was against the Pirates, but not so. I trust the memory of retrosheet more than my own. I remember the line drive (very scary) but maybe it was not at Dodger Stadium.

Stan from Tacoma

I believe this was the first Dodger game I attended in person.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B06020LAN1971.htm

I know that this was the first major league I ever attended in person.

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B04300CAL1971.htm

50
I doubt the Nationals will do anything about Mauch's passing.

They gave out Tim Raines's retired number to Mike Stanton. You would have thought Stanton would have rejected it on general principles. They were teammates on the Yankees for two years.

If they give out Gary Carter's number (8) or #10 (Staub and Dawson), I will be very ticked off.

Then again, I'm ticked off at the Nationals all the time.

Um, Staub and Dawson?

Yep, they both wore #10
http://tinyurl.com/8gpu3

Rusty Staub was the first batter in the first game I saw at Dodger Stadium. For some reason, Mauch batted him leadoff a few times.

The Yankees retired #8 in honor of both Dickey and Berra.

re: 46/48

my dad told me that when he was at USC in the 50s, and the dodgers were playing at the coliseum, they would stop charging admission entirely... i believe after the 7th inning stretch. so he would go see the end of a lot of games for free, and frequently the outcome was decided after he got there.

Sheesh, Bob, how come you haven't gotten The Juice quiz yet?

That one looks hard.

But somebody already got it right.

I think a huge factor in the connection so many feel with Vin Scully is the fact that he works alone in the booth. (By the way, does anyone know why? Is this just a holdover from his days before television?) When you've got two or three guys in the booth, even the best tend to lose focus on what they're supposed to be doing. They get caught up in their own conversations or inside jokes, excluding the listener. (Exhibit A: Hudler and Physioc) With Scully, the relationship is always one-on-one, so it's not suprizing that so many here see him as something of a father figure. When you listen to Scully, there is the sense that he's talking to you, and you alone. I'm not even a Dodger fan, and I love him.

60 I would reverse the equation. Scully is one of the few broadcaster capable of carrying the entire game alone. As much as Hudler and Physioc might annoy you, imagine if you had to listen to just one of those guys for an entire game. The two man crews do, as you say, "get caught up in their own conversations." But the audience needs that crutch. You wouldn't spend 9 innings alone with anyone--except Vin.

Vin has often stated that he works alone on Dodger broadcasts only because he feels that he is having a conversation with the audience. This is necessary because he feels he needs to act that way in order to help out the sponsors and read promos for future games.

When he worked national games, he worked with analysts and was fine. But he says in a national broadcast, he doesn't have to act as someone conversing with the audience because he doesn't have to sell anything. For a national game, the mission is to describe the action and entertain the audience. But for a Dodgers game, Vin wants you to believe him when he tells you to buy tickets for a midweek series in September against Pittsburgh because you believe him.

I'd have to say, if I had my druthers, my second choice in life behind playing pro ball would be to command a space shuttle flight.

I'd personally shoot for sonic booms with more punch...

to bob timmerman....referencing your post #8, if you're experiencing or have experienced the loss of a child feel free to contact me at walbers23@adelphia.net. unfortunately i have experience in that area as well, so very much understand the burden that Vin carries...rgds, will

Um, well, I'm sure you all know by now that I'm not one to shy away from hijacking a moving and thoughtful thread with a dopey offpoint reference . . .

There's an AP story floating around today about a guy who is trying to visit every Starbucks in the world. He offered this -- to me, profound -- explanation of why (other than the fact that he might get to meet Natalie Portman or Scarlett Johansson if he pulls it off): "Every time I reach a Starbucks I feel like I've accomplished something," Winter said, "when actually I have accomplished nothing."

http://tinyurl.com/9hynw

You know, the funny thing is, I think I feel like that when I go to Starbucks, even though it's just the same one again and again and again . . .

Anyone notice Edwin Jackson's outing last night? 8 innings of 3 hit, shutout ball with 8 K's.

The guy even wants to visit each Starbucks that's in an airport terminal? Or in a supermarket?

I'll be looking for this guy in my town. We've got four Starbucks in about a stretch of 12 blocks.

Rob -- I think the previous thread became the Jacksonville thread last night. Lots of love and a new nickname for Jackson in there if I recall correctly.

Sir Edwin of Jackson...ville

or variations thereof.

My cousin in Seattle is friends with the founders of Starbucks. I have this fantasy is my head of going up to visit him, asking to meet them, and yell at the b**s for screwing their managers out of overtime pay.

Winters is one strange dude.

The truncated B word you can figure out yourselves...

I'm sure I'll chime in on the Vin Scully thread and Jon will start a new thread within 5 minutes and this will be ignored. But anyways.

I'm sure any of you that have played a sport video game in the past year or two have noticed how far technology has come for the voiceover commentary. It's actually gotten pretty impressive, in my opinion. And when you think about it, that's such a small part of the development of a game that I'm sure it could go a long ways further.

Any chance we could rig up some sort of technology that would synchronize Vin's voice to something like a Gamecast feed? I still think that a computer generated Vin Scully would be better than 90% of the hacks on TV right now. Anyways who has watched a White Sox game knows what I'm talking about.

I don't even want to think about the first time I have to listen to a Dodger game after Vin hangs it up.

After so many eloquent comments, I don't have much to add, other than Vin makes it feel like I'm the only person in the audience and he's talking directly to me, telling me a story.

It's truly wonderful to read so many great stories and anecdotes from other fans here.

Here is a story on DePo from the LA Daily News that includes this: "Bradley's anger-management problem is legendary, and there are whispers it is beginning to wear thin on his teammates."

http://www2.dailynews.com/sports/ci_2923442

73 - The voiceovers are actually recorded speech (think all the voices in the Grand Theft Auto games; they were recorded by actors).

My old Amiga computer had a say command, where you could type say and follow it with what you wanted the computer to say. It took some creative spelling, and sounded like Stephen Hawkings sounds like, but you could get alter it with male and female inflections!

And if you ended a sentence like this...

It would end in `and so on, and so on...'

67- noticed Jackson's nice game, and wasn't that Greg Miller who combined for the shutout. Its a good sign if these two guys progress. Before I learned to read prospect hype I would have thought these guys would each be getting near their 20th win in LA this year( from reading BA two years ago).
As I said last night, in a season like this Scully is a saving grace.

75
Aside from the Bradley thing, it's the same old DePo criticisms.

I wonder if the Bradley thing is wild speculation or if it's actually true. He seems to have been on good behavior for the year.

Is it so hard to ask that if someone is going to play pro-DePo that they do it competently? Juan Encarnacion? Dave Roberts? What kind of impact have they had other than in the fevered imaginations of beat writers? What an idiot.

75-

I read that in the newspaper this morning. One of the absolute worst sports articles I've ever read, but I shouldn't complain. It IS the Daily News. Here were some of the choice nuggets. (Nuggets of what? U-DECIDE!!!)

He discusses the idea that Depodesta made the right moves by letting go of 23 players in the offseason. Then, this:

"Of those, only four- Shawn Green, Paul Lo Duca, Juan Encarnacion, and Dave Roberts have had any impact on their new clubs. That jumps to six if you count Adrian Beltre and Steve Finley, who have been dissappointments for Seattle and the Angels respectively."

Yeah, dissappointments, Tony. So, how can you hold it against Depodesta a paragraph later for letting Finley go?

Then he brings up Depo's players. Jeff Kent, Jason Phillips, Milton Bradley, Antonio Perez, Brad Penny. All of whom have played well for the Dodgers. (Well, Phillips arguably not, but Jackson seems to like those high RBI numbers.)

He counters their successes by stating that Kent and Bradley are chemistry problems (first I've heard of this from this year), Phillips can't throw out runners, Perez can't field a position well enough to stay in the lineup, and most idiotically of all, his knock on Brad Penny: He has a sub-.500 record.

I'd eviscerate this garbage more, but this is my first post here and I'm not sure if there are word count parameters. Sorry if this takes up too much room.

80 - Not to worry about the room. Picking apart DePo bashers in a clear and logical way is getting on the fast track to stardom here.

79
You mean "Anti-DePo?"

Encarnacion is sporting a nice .296/.363/.489 line with 17 win shares, including 9 win shares above average. He's 18th in the league in win shares, as a reference.

82 -- well, there was a half-hearted, incompetent attempt at some Devil's Advocate.

That bastard Encarnacion. The fount of all evil.

81- Cool. Here's some more, then.

Why not compare the so-called "impact" players to players at the same position on our team?

Paul Lo Duca- .309 AVG/.363 OBP/.408 SLG
Jason Phillips- .242 AVG/.294 OBP/ .381 SLG

I didn't include Navarro because of the tiny sample size, but clearly Lo Duca is superior to Phillips. But is his salary worth a 69 point increase in on-base and a 27 point increase in slugging? I think not.

Shawn Green- .286 AVG/ .355 OBP/ .483 SLG
J.D. Drew- .286 AVG/ .393 OBP/ .514 SLG

But here, Drew, is a better player, (smaller sample size admittedly).

Juan Encarnacion- .296 AVG/ .363 OBP/ .489 SLG
Ricky Ledee- .293 AVG/ .352 OBP/ .459 SLG

Encarnacion slightly better, but again, is the salary for Encarnacion worth the SLIGHTLY higher On-base and slugging?

Dave Roberts- .262 AVG/ .344 OBP/ .416 SLG
Milton Bradley- .282 AVG/ .338 OBP (?)/ .473 SLG (!)

Bradley .OPSing at .811, Roberts at .760. Ref, stop the fight. And this isn't even taking into consideration that Bradley, a normally patient hitter is taking far less walks than normal this year.

I'm not going to bother comparing Finley and Bradley and Beltre and our platoon (regiment?) of third basemen, simply because it wouldn't be nice, and they are ex-Dodgers after all.

The point is, we're getting nearly equal statistical output at every position this year, at a cheaper price, and our management is bashed for it. I suppose we should have given Green that foolish extension he got from Arizona. Maybe then the writers would glow about the Dodgers like they do the Angels.

The key to their hearts are stupid, huge, contracts for a minimal increase in production.

yeah save your breath an writing skills!

The bottom line is that if we had beltre, Finley, Green and others we would be without Jeff Kent and be as bad as we are now or worse. Tony Jackson can write all he wants about this and that but really here is the problem, opposing batting avgs against: (I spared guys like Erickson from this list)

Brad Penny .271
Derek Lowe .276
Duaner Sánchez .268
Jeff Weaver .261
Odalis Pérez .260
Giovanni Carrara .283
D.J. Houlton .300
Yhency Brazobán .271
Wilson Álvarez .319

76 Yes, i realize that it's not "computer generated" speech, but rather a combination of bits of recorded speech. I probably shouldn't care, but as a former CS grad, I hate the thought of someone thinking I'm clueless about programming. I guess what I was referring to is to do that with Vin's voice, but more involved and robust than anything currently used.

80 Viewpoints aside, I was shocked at how terrible of an article that was. And when I got to the end, I was wondering if that was actually the end or if I was supposed to go on to another page or something, because it ended so abruptly and without making a point. Just a horrible, horrible article.

re: Tony Jackson's column...

Finley better than Kent? Finley contributed more than Bradley? This is the Carlos Beltran syndrome on a massive scale. One well-timed home run makes you a great player.

What this stupid column illustrates is when beat writers get tired of pointing out the injuries, they inevitably start pretending that the injuries aren't really the problem.

Jason Repko has appeared in more games than J.D. Drew. Rickey Ledee has played in more games than Milton Bradley, who has only appeared in two more games than Mike Edwards. Gio Carrara has pitched in 51 games, while Eric Gagne pitched in only 14. It's not irrelevant. But unlike other GMs (like Brian Sabean and Brian Cashman), DePo decided not to discard the future to fill these big holes. This season's been lousy, but at least Dodger fans have something to look forward to.

If Tony Jackson really had a nose for news, he'd have picked up on the fact that the Dodgers' AA franchise has developed a local following through the Internet. That's a story!

Speaking of the AA franchise, I have a question. Has Edwin Jackson's 6-year clock started ticking yet?

85
While I agree that our pitching is just as much a problem as our hitting if not more, I'm not sure that batting average against is the best way to show that.

84.

I'm not sure that Bradley vs. Roberts is a fair comparison (Bradley did not take over for Roberts)...you should compare Roberts to our third outfielder...whoever he is today.

88 It's been a while since I've check on this, but I believe that the only time that counts against your free agent service time is the days you are actually on the 25 man roster. So while he has earned time, he is not currently earning time. Though I could be wrong.

Werth has hit all of the fabled "three true outcomes" today. In other words, a homer, a walk, and a strike out

If you want some faster paced Dodger message boarding action (today being fairly slow thus far), the Tony Jackson "article" is being discussed at Baseball Think Factory:

http://tinyurl.com/asorp

Erickson was pitching that game. He actually struck some guys out, and didn't give up any homers

5.1 IP, 8 H, 5 ER, 3 BB, 4 K, HBP, and a terrible 4-8 GO/AO ratio

Young and Aybar are both 1-3

94 - What's GO/AO?

95 Ground outs and air outs. AO is just a fancy term meaning fly outs, pop outs, line outs, foul outs, etc. Erickson is a sinkerball pitcher, and should be getting mostly groundouts. Anything in the air means his sinker isn't sinking, and he is thus more likely to give up homers and XBHs

Ohh, air outs. I've never heard of that term before.

Regarding the one man booth, it is a vestige from the days of Red Barber. I have some tapes of Red doing Dodger games from 1950 and he worked alone in the booth. The one man booth was a Dodger tradition on radio from the beginning (I think 1939 or so is when they first began broadcasting games) until the end of last year. When Vin finishes his simulcast, I believe the sorry mess that is a Dodger broadcast on radio this year literally speaks for itself.

I know everyone here is more interested in Dodger minor league prospects, but I think a broadcast prospect is more critical to the long term needs of the franchise. Red brought Vin aboard and when Red left after 1953, the broadcast booth was in great shape. When Vin leaves there is going to be a void. I don't think Vin can be replaced anymore than the Dodgers could replace Sandy Koufax, but a prudent team should be looking ahead to the day when Vin is no longer available. Sad to say, I don't have any reason to think that McCourt shares my view. If this year is any indication, he has no interest in what goes out over the air.

A young broadcaster with some polish and flair to bring into the booth right now should be the priority for this franchise. I was upset that Ross was let go, but quite frankly Ross is not who I would have in mind to replace Vin anyway. Bring back Ross and of couse Vin, and go get two or three younger guys with talent to bring into the mix and eventually take over in the future.

Dodger broadcasts are as much a franchise tradtion as the the players on the field. Despite the poor play on the field this year, I think the Dodger tradition of excellence in the broadcast booth is more at risk than is the tradition of fielding championship caliber teams. I would trade Guzman, Broxton, Billingsly, Loney or anyone else for someone who can talk and provide me with a sense of joy in listening to Dodger baseball on the radio.

Sorry for the long rant.

Stan from Tacoma

Actually Stan that made a lot of sense.

Witness the problems the Lakers have had replacing Chick Hearn

Thank God the Dodgers don't have Bo Schembechler running the team. He fired Ernie Harwell from the Tigers. Eventually Harwell came back and left on his own terms. Schembechler did not.

Agreed, 100%. Whenever I get down on the Dodgers, the one thing that always brings me back is Scully. It's simply not the same listening to other broadcasts. Even the years when LA has been terrible, he can make just about anything interesting.

Stan,
I agree with your sentiments, too. I hope the Dodgers can find/groom a suitable replacement. While Steiner/Monday isn't bad, I'm certain we'll all miss Vin that much more if we have to listen to that style everyday.

Off topic, but where can I find current minor league stats (for this year)?

101 baseballamerica.com or minorleaguebaseball.com (MiLB.com)

99--

Bob,

I graduated from the University of Michigan. No picking on Bo.

103

Bo should have stuck to coaching football. He didn't know squat about running a baseball team.

If Frank McCourt went and hired Pete Carroll for a front office position and Carroll's first job was to fire Vin Scully, that would be comparable.

Of course Carroll has a slightly better record in bowl games than Bo.

any sign of jon and today's game link?

Thanks, King of the Hobos. Man, today is a slow day...

espn.com says Houlton is starting while cbs.sportsline.com says Penny is. Who's right?

Sorry for the late appearance, everyone - it's been one of those days. Actually, the game thread is now up early - but I've had to fold a truncated version of my morning post into it.

Liked the post by Stan (98), by the way.

86 - Wasn't thinking that at all, rageon. Just stating that the technology ain't quite up to it, AFIK, just yet.

But, (and don't take this the wrong way), don't you mean current CS grad? :)

Maybe Jon was moonpaddling:

http://starbulletin.com/2005/08/07/sports/story2.html

That championship was featured on ESPN's 50in50 state sports segment on Saturday.

110 - Make that AFAIK (as opposed to AFAIG - as far as I grok...)

Stan,
Thanks, you've brought me out of a self-imposed exile on a site I really once enjoyed. (Jon's excellent writing aside)

I couldn't agree more with you in regards to the broadcasts, and I concur with you even more that Frank McCourt doesn't care what we think about all of it.

I never thought of Ross Porter as Vin's replacement and it would be foolish to even think of Rick Monday as being the same. In fact, I don't understand why Vin needs a replacement or should there be a planned replacement for him. The position is still filled. Vin still has a pulse and I find it to be an insult to his integrity that they should be making adjustments, whether Vin wants them or has even suggested them.

The ultimate compliment for his years of Dodger loyality and broadcasting is LET HIM KNOW BY ACTIONS THAT THERE ARE NO PLANS WHAT-SO-EVER OF EVER REPLACING HIM!!!!!!!

Somewhere in there, I can visualize a classey Vin Scully, coming across a voice somewhere in some obscure or popular part of the country that he felt deserved a chance at making it into the bigs as voice that will entertain millions for years to come--to continue the legacy of greatness to broadcasting Dodger baseball. Instead we are gifted with this boob of an owner.

As a lifelong Dodger fan, I'm utterly disgusted what has become of this franchise--not just on the field--but off of it and around it. Every move they have made to make the Dodger experience better, they have failed. If any of you disagree with me, then simply look at the record of changes made and compare the difference between the postives and the negatives. (as a lifelong Dodger fan, I can put up with the bad years ON THE FIELD once in a while. They didn't earn the nickname "Dem Bums" for nothing. However, complete incompetence is no excuse.)

The future now is that our Dodger experience be a fun-filled one. There will be advertisements and adult fun zones to get us to spend more so they can make more--not so we can enhance an experience that many of us have voiced, didn't need enhancing one bit at all. Somewhere in all of that they'll find a way to become a better team on the field, just as soon as Suite #102, which just ran out of Dodger Dogs, gets them PDQ-quick! Getting in and out of the stadium will become a breeze for those with VIP/celebrity suite credentials. They'll have they're very own on and off-ramps (taxpayer funded) while multi-tiered parking will add to the experience of just exactly what it means to be caught in Dodger Stadium traffic for the schmuck that wanted to take his family to the ballgame that is sitting in what used to be "the normal seats."

We as Dodger fans know all of this is going to go so smoothly because they have done such an admirable job with the new stadium configuration and advertisements; (What was that Walter O'Malley and Emil Prager thinking?) the treatment of longtime Dodger employees that were given their walking papers; the constant bumbling of player trades and exchanges. (sorry, I drifted from the topic of being off of the field and around it)

These are just a minute reasons why I choose to listen to Vin til the day he stop broadcasting--when that day eventually comes, I'm sure I'll have enough Dodger memories to last a lifetime, and frankly I just won't need to watch or look or listen anymore.

In my closing, the words of Vin Scully, realzing that the current plans for the stadium and the Dodgers will be reduced to ancient history--gone and forgotten:

"When the sun sets at Dodger Stadium, I am impressed first of all with the mountains because, at this time of year, they are fully defined. It makes me think of some of the great artists who did Western paintings — Frederic Remington, Charles Russell, Frank McCarthy, to name a few — because they must have been inspired by that.

And then the cloud formations. At sunset, they turn pink. And as it continues, the closer you are to sunset, the clouds are still kind of gold. Farther away in center field and right field, you're away from the sunset and the clouds are turning purple. So you think of an artist's palette with various colors, and it just takes your breath away.

Down on the field, a ballgame is just beginning. But the sunset becomes a major distraction because it's so overwhelming it's hard to take your eyes off it. And then the palm trees — there's a group of palm trees on the hill behind left field — they are defined against the sky, and they are turning colors with the sunset. You can't see that anywhere else in a ballpark."

Re: 113 - we're commenting on this in the game thread above. Thanks, Tommy.

Tommy,

Just a few quick thoughts. I am not talking about replacing Vin right now, nor do I think he can ever be replaced. Like it or not-- and I don't like it-- one day he is not going to be in the broadcast booth, no matter whether he wants to be there or we want him there. That's life.

I agree with what you are saying in your post. I am a long way from the scene though, so maybe that gives me some perspective. What you are writing about McCourt is not unique to McCourt. I wish it was not so, but it is.

When the revolving advertisements behind homeplate made their first apperance in Detroit I turned off the t.v. When I saw it in another stadium (I forget which one that was) I turned off the t.v. I wish I was principled enough to have kept turning the t.v. off, but if I want to see the game, I figured out that I would just have to put up with it. I don't like it but again that's life.

At any rate, yours is a voice on this site that I value. If you don't want to join in the debate about who should be playing at first base that's fine; quite frankly it is not an issue that needs any more voices. If you don't want to join in the discussion here because of a principled stand against the McCourts of the world, I respect that but I don't say that it is fine. Your silence will not drive away the McCourts anymore than my words will change the direction of baseball in this century.

To bring this back to Vin, I think I have learned a few things from the man. Silence can be effective but make sure there is at least some crowd noise in the background. Don't be afraid to speak up, but don't be shrill and strident. The last one can be derived from your quote, though it really is central to every broadcast I have heard him do.

Glad to see you here.

Stan from Tacoma

Stan,
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I mean that! As I had said here before the season started, I thought it was going to be a very long season. So far, that prediction was too close for comfort.

I think the only thing that's going to suffice is that we write this season off by planning for the next one and letting these young guys of the future get their chance. Nows the time--let them play and learn just how tough it really is to be a major leaguer.

great website- i stumbled by this afternoon

Vin isn't being treated well. He's frustrated with the management and he's not happy. i'd be suprised if he comes back next year.