I didn't notice a double clutch. Maybe he looked at 1B first?

When Werth hit that HR, watching it on televeision it looked like he "hit it too high."

Perez did indeed double clutch. I remember noticing it at the time, and on the replays, but he had plenty of time to get the runner so it didn't really matter.

That was the second notable double-clutch of the day, the other being by David Wright on Penny's almost-infield-single.

The live shot showed a double clutch, but I think that it was only a camera trick. The live shot cut to the high angle, right when Perez was cocking his arm.

But when they showed the total play, Perez did not double clutch at all, it was glove, hand, throw - no hesitation.

Since we appear to have a Rashomon/Johnny Pesky problem, I went back and looked at the Tivo. db1022 is correct -- the double clutch was an optical illusion created by the overhead camera angle.

On both the live shot and the slo-mo replay, it looks like a double clutch. When they showed the closeup angle, however, you could tell that there was no extraneous movement. Perez did definitely take his time with the play (as well he should have), but no double clutch.

I haven't watched the game yet, but I've listened to it and the Mets announcers didn't mention a double-clutch.

4 - Sounds like no one at the LA Times has Tivo either.

I saw the double clutch, and immediately cringed if the play didn't go the Dodgers way. No way Perez sees the light of day again if he had double clutched and not got him.

He was double vindicated though, when first the runner was tagged out, and second when the replay showed he played it perfectly.

I agree with 3 and 4. If anyone wants to see the play again (and didn't have it tivo'd), it is included in the top plays archive on dodgers.com.

I thought Pedro was pretty gracious and respectful in defeat (dunno why but I guess I expected something different).

What do you think he meant by Werth "cheated a little" (I realize he didn't mean cheat in the true sense of the word) to hit it out? I assume he meant he guessed right on the pitch location?

off topic, but boy it sure is hard to watch Piazza swing and foul back pitches he would have used to hit 450 feet. It makes me feel my age.

10 - i totally agree. i remember thinking the same sort of thing when paul molitor retired. i think he was the last player still around from when i really first started to follow baseball (1978). it's also why i continue to root for rickey. he makes me feel young. i wonder, if the a's had not gone on this hot streak, would beane have brought rickey back for one last hurrah?

I found the play on Dodgers.com

Of course, the play on Marlon Anderson is labeled as "Navarro makes the tag"

I was at the game first row loge behind the home plate and to me it looked like he had a problem finding the ball in his glove very briefly or he had to re -grip the ball. I laughed when it happened because he does tend to do that a once in awhile but still makes the play. just needs some regular playing time to iron that out.

he makes the play, and the times says he double clutches...

he breaks up a no hitter with a triple, and the times talks about Williams in center not wanting to crash into the wall...

when is the times ever going to give us even the slightest break?

3

there was something there, not the camera angle. I saw something briefly watching that play live and made a remark right after. to me it looked like a re-grip slightly so it couldn't have been the camera angle as I was a the game. Now it might have been that he really took his time as eric has mentioned but I still think he slightly re-gripped the ball in his glove. I say that without having seen even one replay of that play. Just going from memory of what I saw and I made a comment about it as did my friend right after the play happened. It could have been a long pause and the glove was just moving. something was slighly off, but it could have been the timing.

If you look at the replay on mlb.com, Perez studder-stepped to get into throwing position; he did not double clutch the throw.

AP paused, ever so swiftly, to confirm that Anderson had indeed committed to going home.

That is my assessment anyhow.

he paused to make sure jim tracy was watching.

Totally Howard. He made a game saving play (he could have juggled it, lit it on fire, thrown it to the ground and teleported the ball with his eye over to Navarro and as long as the guy is out)

Last night I went to the Tom Petty concert with a big Dodger fan who missed yesterdays game and he asked, would Beltran have made that play? (I am like lets talk about how hard he hit it vs a HOF ex dodger arm throwing a no no in the 8th inning)

My first reaction was you must have been listening to the local radio. (he may as well read the times too)

with the note that Perez may have double clutched, what made the play was the fact that Williams got a HORRIBLE jump off third base for the Mets.

If he breaks as soon as the basll is hit, he may have been safe.

#9, As I understand baseball lingo, "cheated" refers to a hitter starting the bat early to get the bat out in front of a fastball. Did not see the game, so I have no idea if Werth actually hit a fastball. At any rate, with a pitcher who has a real good fastball almost all hitters have to "cheat" to some extent. Hitters whose bat speed has slowed end up having to "cheat" on even ordinary fastballs. Obviously, those hitters are likely to get fooled by off speed pitches and end up not staying in the league too long. Eventually the fastball is by you is an old saying that is eventually true for every ballplayer.

Stan from Tacoma

20 - what is really amazing about Williams' slow jump from third base, is that Anderson was on third....

Also did Willie Randolph ever explain why he pinch hit Matsui for Williams in the 9th? Williams had been getting his share of hits in the series and had doubled off of Penny earlier.

Kazuo Matsui is the less popular Matsui playing in New York. But comparing Kazuo to Hideki isn't like comparing Audrey to Katherine Hepburn.

Re: 22
whoever was on third got a bad jump.

I have Williams on the mind because he drove in the only run yesterday and hit a home run on Friday night. How does he beat us?

by the way, he should have caught Perez's triple yesterday

24
There's a reason why Gerald Williams has been in the minors most of the year and has played for six different teams.

The most similar batter to him according to Baseball-reference is Mike Davis.

24 - I think Williams bailed out on the ball a second early, but I think it's tough to say he should have caught it. It would have been a highlight and a half. The ball was relatively low but Williams was chasing it all the way.

If he had gotten to the wall two seconds sooner, though, I think he would have caught it.

I noticed the bail out, then the ball hitting the wall. If the ball got to the wall first, then maybe I could understand the bail out.

Maybe he had Beltran and Cameron on the mind.

it reminded me of the play where junior broke his wrist in seattle a few years ago. if williams had tried to catch it, it looked to me like he would not have had time to protect his wrist by turning his body.

speaking of mike davis, i still recall the sign he made in the dugout: "mike davis is alive and well in los angeles"

27 - I'd bet, consciously or unconsciously, that he did.

Either way, perez hit the ball a long way against a hall-of-fame pitcher who was in the process of throwing a no-hitter. Then he makes a tough defensive play that probably saved the game (im assuming that the bullpen wouldve blown it eventually had the run scored). And people are questioning any of it? Williams shouldve made the catch?; Perez double clutched and nearly made a mistake? Quite frankly Antonio Perez in the 8th and 9th innings (and really in his whenever he gets a chance to play) seems to display the kind of incontrol-aggresiveness that the the dodgers have sorely lacked. Wooden's saying about being quick but dont hurry comes to mind when i think about his throw to home. The typical dodger hitter against Martinez in that situation would have been very defensive at the plate, yet Perez has the presence of mind to try to drive the ball out of the park if he can. Yesterday Antonio Perez seemed to symbolize everything the dodgers are not: aggressive enough to take advantage of the situation, but not wild and still in control. The fact that the media seems so confused about what happened last night makes sense, they dont expect this kind of thing from the dodgers and really dont recognize it when they see it.

This is what i think Steve was getting to in his piece "Go A's" on FJT. The dodgers, blame it on tracy and/or the LA media if you will, are just so bland and conservative that play like Perez's really isnt encouraged. Bland guys that seem to play the game more to avoid mistakes (or as Joe Morgan likes to say "manage to avoid the worst thing from happening") like Shawn Green, Jason Phillips, and Odalis Perez seem to typify the character of the Dodgers over the past couple years. Really what im trying to say here is that Antonio Perez proved that he wasnt a Dodger yesterday, he showed that hes better than that.

I personally don't like the "Beltran would have caught it" debate. It's hard to say he would have, but let's assume he does. What's stopping Werth from going deep? Maybe Pedro lost some concentration, but again, that's hard to say. Also, the Mets only run, the winning run, came off Williams' double. Maybe Beltran drives in some runs, maybe not. He hasn't been that great of a hitter this year. Williams drove in the run, so he was responsible for a run on both sides. That results in a 1-0 Dodger win

Just looked again at the highlight on Dodgers.com. No double-clutch for Perez. The angle from the 3rd base side is the best. What it looks like is that he brought his glove to his throwing hand instead of the other way around, while turning his body to make the throw. I didn't see any stop in his motion, however. Good play. And Navarro also deserves credit for that block. From where I was sitting, we couldn't tell if Anderson was out or safe. It looked like he got there before the tag, but on the replay, you can see that he missed the plate entirely - something we couldn't see from down the 1st base line. Great play all the way 'round, and good call by the ump. Looked like Anderson was annoyed that rolled into the umpire, as if that's why he wasn't able to get back to tag the plate before Navarro tagged him again.

I was at the game as well, in the shade a little up the third base side in the loge section and I remember being a bit anxious when Perez paused before making the throw home, although he seemed to get him in plenty of time. I was also puzzled by Matsui pinch-hitting when Williams had been hitting the ball well, maybe Matsui has good numbers in his career against Penny?

Yesterday was one of the best baseball games you could have gone to: great pitching, a near no-hitter, a very quick game, an exciting comeback, and a thrilling last-inning finish.

I agree, overkill94. That was a great game. By the 8th, I'd have been very happy to see a no-hitter. But I said to my buddy what probably 48K people were thinking. "Either a no-no, or a 2-1 Dodger win!" Well, we got the latter. And the fast game was VERY welcome. I was frying in the heat, and after the 3 hr 40 min (or whatever) bullpen debacle on Tuesday night, I was happy to have a quicker outcome. Plus, Jim Tracy didn't make a single trip to the mound. Bonus!

Kazuo Matsui was 0 for 6 in his career against Penny prior to Sunday's game with 1 K.

Now he is 0 for 7 with 2 Ks.

Williams is 2 for 4 in his career against Penny with a double and homer.

Either Williams hurt himself or Willie Randolph just wanted to get out of town.

What was strange was that he picked one of his worst hitters.

I was expecting Offerman. So was Vinny.

Now that I've finally gone back and read yesterday's gameday comments, I think a lot of you are going overboard about AP. I think he deserves to play as much as anyone, but making a play on a routine grounder (no matter how significant a play it was) will not get him more playing time at 3B. I think it's been clear all along that Tracy thinks he's a good 2B but a terrible 3B.

23 He may be the least popular Matsui, but I suspect he's the most popular Kazuo.

Being a true fan of the NL West, the only game that matters to me tonight is in Cincinnati.

The Reds have taken a 1-0 lead on a Ken Griffey homer in the first.

Kevin Correia against Aaron Harang.

The Rockies play at home tonight against the Brewers, who, as mentioned in an earlier thread, have a far better record than the Dodgers.

Adam Dunn has made it 2-0.

Remind me again...who did we give up to get Cruz?

Somebody named Schrager.

41. Schrager (sp?) was only managing about a .240 BA at Vegas, and was Boston's mouth to feed last year anyway. So basically, I think we got Cruz Jr for free. Plus, he shoved Edwards off the roster, and Repko to the bench, so probably a net benefit, if only he were allowed to, you know, play.

Right after the Dodgers said they would be giving Cruz an extended look in the outfield, he got sent back to the bench and he can go check where Chin-Feng Chen carved his initials.

Chen's initials are really bad for the environment, BTW.

45. Well, not in Chinese characters, or even with the Chinese last-name-first convention. CFC = bad. CCF = no biggie.

44-46 I was thinking the same way ... you guys are awesome.

47: Maybe we all need this day off even more than the players do. We're slightly mad.

48

Mad as in "Mad Hatter"?
Mad as in "Mad Magazine"?
Mad as in "Mad about You"?
Mad as in "Angry"?

Randy Winn and Todd Linden homers have tied the game in Cincinnati.

For those not scoring at home, Winn is the Giants center fielder and Linden is starting in right.

Excuse me, Linden is in left field tonight. Michael Tucker is playing right.

49 Bob, you forgot Mad as in its a "Mad, Mad, Mad World."

I guess I'm being dumb, but I don't get it. What does CFC stand for?

Chlorofluorocarbons

49: I was thinking "Hatters."

Or, as in the QUEEN song, "I'm going slightly mad." Hey, Freddy Mercury's mustache would probably get him in the starting lineup on a regular basis.

chlorofluorocarbons - pollutants from aerosols or old refrigerators that destroy the ozone layer.

In other words, Chen had tremendous effects on the team's chemistry - but unfortunately only the kind that cause clubhouse cancers.

Another homer in Cincy, this one from Austin Kearns.

3-2 Reds over the Hateds.

Doesn't Winn have 3 homeruns in the last 4-5 games?

53 and 55 Thanks. I learn something new everyday here at DT.

56- Does Austin Kearns now qualify as a "Messenger of Satan"?

per 32, Navarro deserves a lot of credit on AP's play at the plate. He blocked it so well that Anderson came nowhere near the plate. As Navarro went to make sure with a second tag one can see the Ump motion forget it --He's out.

Kearns --yes from Satan!

The Giants are back ahead of the Reds 4-3.

The Nationals-Phillies game is on EI tonight. I think this is the first time I've ever seen a Nationals broadcast.

The novelty has worn off very quickly.

Randy Winn has just hit for the cycle in Cincinnati with a triple in the 6th.

7-3 Hateds in Cincy now in the 6th.

I dub this the mellow thread.

My, my! A cycle for Mr. Winn?! Hasn't anyone reminded him that he's not very good? And that his new team also isn't very good? Oh well, something for Giants' fans to pay attention to, anyway. Soon, the Chronicle will be opining that they don't need Bonds at all, now that they have the mighty Winn.

64 - Let's make it the giggle thread. That way we can have giggle and google integration at the same time.

Giants win 7-3. They move 2 games behind the Dodgers in the all-important battle for third in the NL West.

Speaking of CFC's, Ford Motor Co. once had a sales brochure stating that the new type of Freon, RF-12, would negate the further ozone depletion of the Earth's core.

What they didn't tell you is how it would throw all the freon miners out of work...

giants fans are more in denial than some of us are. Somebody on "Only Baseball Matters" said, "All we have to look forward to is the possibility that the Dodgers will be worse than the giants in '06 and '07."

The Giants success I assume rests on the health of Barry Bonds.

But they've got a lot of other holes to fill. And they're really, really, really old.

Well, at least Randy Winn is less really really old than Ol' Man Grissom.

And attrition might take care of Matheny and Alfonzo (who is actually younger than he looks) and Vizquel.

The Giants might be forced to play young guys despite their own worst efforts.

The Randy Winn acquisition has been good for them, but you are right they need to play some younger players. Visquel still looks good, but Durham and parts of their pitching staff have been bad at times real bad...The Giant fans and announcers have been in denial all year for two reasons everyone gave them the division and they just can't believe their not in first. The other point has been the Bonds issue and the thought if Barry could just come back he would solve everything. Well with 45 plus games to go and no new word on Barry the announcers at least have begun to be more realistic. However, with all of the flaws they have we have San Diego and Arizona have a good streak even winning 8-10 could make a difference. They have 4 against Cincy and have won the first and Schmidt pitches tomorrow. The Dodgers have Atlanta and Florida while the Giants finsih with Cincy and then go to St. Louis so the fight for third will be there this week.

71 -

Speaking of Ol' Man Grissom, does anyone know what's happened to him. I know he was DFA'd but has that time expired or do the Giants still have him. I would much rather have seen him back here than Cruz.

By the way GoBears - is that Chicago or Cal?

Grissom was released.

The NL West will likely go 2-0 today as the Rockies are routing the Brewers 11-2.

The chances of either the Dodgers or Giants having a stretch where they win 8 out of 10 seems remote to me. Neither team is that good.

When I logged on there was a small ad for StubHub in the lower left hand corner. Does anyone else have this? Is it new? First time I've seen it. Jon, congrats if you have garnered enough attention to make some $$$. Lord knows you have worked hard enough and have earned it.

Yep,
Those are new. Ken has info on 'em in the Fairpole.

The A's lost tonight. What's their record since Steve defected to them. I believe they've lost three of their last four.

They're 0-2. The A's fans stand ready with pitchforks to drive me back down south.

#75, I see the same ad. Does not bother me at all. This is still the best baseball site on the web in my opinion, with or without advertising.

Stan from Tacoma

77 And if the Dodgers start winning more, then youre out of here too. Have fun in...Toronto? =P

Then I'll have to go to Tampa Bay, where I'll write a book about my year at Tropicana Field and call it "Repko, Romano and Me."

#77, Steve, what is the Dodger record during the same time frame.

Stan from Tacoma

1-0. I know; I've done you a favor. The Curse of Jason Ellison is undone; The A's Curse of Steve is only beginning.

The Royals lost their 16th in a row tonight.

The AL record is 21. From what I saw of the Royals tonight, they can do it easily.

The Curse of Jason Ellison ended, fittingly, on a game when Jason Phillips drove in the winning run in the 9th.

And Cesar Izturis drove in the tying run.

It was, of course, also fitting that Jason Phillips struck out before he drove in the winning run. :)

The question is, now that Steve has changed loyalties, has the chance of Grabowski being reunited with his former team gone up exponentially?

But the Giants had something special going there.

That bad call ruined the Giants' hopes of winning the division according to Moises Alou.

86 -- Indubitably so.

Somebody tell Felipe Alou that Social Security isn't that special -- everyone over a certain age gets it.

And think how the Dodgers would have fared if Felipe Alou had accepted the Sheriff's offer to be the manager.

Could he have gotten as much out of Tripp Cromer as Davey Johnson did?

Oddsmakers have the Braves as -200 favorites for Tuesday's game. Not the longest shot on the board. The Yankees are -250 against Tampa Bay, but that's Randy Johnson facing Doug Waechter.

Angels win. The Curse mutates.

For people who think they know something about fielding,
http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/index.html

While Dodger fans had to watch the horror of Scott Erickson with 15 Ks in 55 IP, Kirk Rueter had 25 Ks in just over 100 IP this year.

What will you do with all your Centralia jokes now that Rueter is gone, Bob?

YIKES! What happened here? The background is now same as the sidebar, the text is smaller, and when I log in I get my profile screen and have to click on the DT sidebar to get to the post.

Yo! Mr. Programmer! What you did?

The comment preview is the same as it has been for months, however.

And now I do a refresh and it goes back to the way it has been for months. WTF, over?

Definitely a case of needing to get off the rock for a while, Link :)

Check the Fairpole, Link.

As for my Centralia jokes, well, I will just have to save them for my next Open Mic night.

Is there some invisible post or has nobody made a comment this morning?

You're not missing anything. Hang in there - new post coming up shortly.

Okay just wondering... and looking for a distraction from work.... Thanks

Dodger Thoughts: decreasing productivity one intelligent poster at a time ;)