Looks like Edwin Jackson will pitch Monday. At least that's the buzz this morning. Anyone else think this is too fast? I mean the guy got killed in Vegas and is just now getting some confidence back in JAX. If the Marlins hammer him how much does this sit back his pretty good comeback?
I guess the reasoning is let's see what he has before Sept call-ups but I think they might be making a mistake with this one. The guy should be handled carefully for at least a few more AA starts I think.
I'd go with Dessens and hope for the best rather than potentially wrecking Jackson.
Coming off of a World Series championship, the 1982 Dodgers looked like they were headed back to the postseason again after they kept their first place lead at 3 games over the Atlanta Braves as Fernando Valenzuela threw a 2-hit shutout and Ron Cey hit a solo home run to account for all of the scoring in a 1-0 Dodgers win over the Pirates at Three Rivers Stadium. A crowd of 15,245 looked on as the Dodgers improved to 69-54.
There wasn't any sophomore jinx for Valenzuela. He would go 19-13 in 1982 with a 2.87 ERA. His strikeout total dropped to 199 from 245 in the strike-shortened 1981 season. Steve Carlton won the Cy Young Award.
On this day in August, Cey hit a solo home run off of Larry McWilliams in the second, but the Dodgers did little else, striking out 10 times overall with just five hits. But Valenzuela was even better, allowing a first inning single to Dale Berra and a fifth inning single to Johnny Ray. Valenzuela set down 14 of the last 15 Pirates, eight by strikeout.
1982 was a turbulent year for the Dodgers. The Braves won their first 13 games of the season and on July 29, the Braves led the second place Padres by 9 games, the third place Dodgers by 10 ½ and the fourth place Giants by 14.
The Dodgers came to Atlanta to start a four-game series on July 30 that started with a doubleheader. In the first game, the Dodgers appeared to be dead and buried, trailing 6-1 after four innings, but then the Dodgers stormed back to win the opener 10-9. They took the nightcap 8-2 and then won the final two games of the series. The Braves lost 19 of 21 games and the Dodgers went 16-5, including a 21 inning 2-1 win over the Cubs in which manager Tommy Lasorda used all 25 players on the roster.
But in September, both the Dodgers and Braves faltered a bit and the Giants got hot. Going into the final weekend of the season, the Braves led the Dodgers and Giants by one game. The Braves were in San Diego, while the Dodgers and Giants played in San Francisco. The Dodgers and Braves both won their first two games and the Giants were eliminated. And then in Game 162, Lasorda made the fateful decision to pinch hit for Valenzuela with Jorge Orta and reliever Terry Forster joined the rogues gallery of Dodger pitchers who gave up inopportune home runs to Giants players. The Dodgers finished 88-74, 1 game behind the Braves who had lost their final game to the Padres.
1982 saw the breakup of the Dodgers longtime Garvey-Lopes-Russell-Cey infield. Davey Lopes was the first player to go and Steve Sax took over. And Sax shone, winning Rookie of the Year honors with a .282 average and 49 stolen bases. Pedro Guerrero slugged 32 home runs and batted .304 with an OPS of .378.
The Dodgers had three great starters in Valenzuela, Bob Welch and Jerry Ruess, but the back end of the rotation was shaky with Dave Stewart, Burt Hooton, and Vicente Romo taking turns. Romo was pitching for the Dodgers for the first time since 1968.
Steve Howe saved 13 games with a 2.08 ERA. Tom Niedenfuer saved 9 games and even Forster managed to pick up three. And in even better news, Dave Goltz was released.
Coming up a game short wasn't good enough for the Dodgers. There were hot prospects that needed to get playing time, namely Mike Marshall and Greg Brock. Both liked to play first. And the Dodgers decided it was time to further dismantle the infield as Steve Garvey would leave as a free agent and Cey would be traded.
Thanks to the New York Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet
Completely disagree with #1. Yes, you want to be careful with your prospects, but you don't want to go to the extreme of babying them. Frankly, IF Jackson is the kind of guy who'd have a mental breakdown because of one bad start, then he's not much a prospect anyway.
HOWEVER, every quote I've ever seen from Jackson indicates that he's extraordinarily mature and level-headed for his age, and even if he were to get bombed (which seems unlikely), he'd probably recover well. If getting the crap beat out of him for one and a half seasons in AAA didn't wreck his confidence, I doubt one bad major league start will either.
The reasoning isn't "let's see what he has before September callups." The reasoning is "it's an emergency, we need a pitcher to make a spot start, and he is by far the best candidate in our minor league system to do so."
And besides, if he's on a hot streak, why waste that streak against minor league batters?
1 The problem with Dessens, and this is solely from Tracy's point of view, is that the bullpen needs veterans. This makes no sense to me, as he'll be used for one start and Tracy rarely uses him anyways. The other alternative would have been Erickson...
Is it too early for what ifs? I can't help but think of the many what ifs that would change this season.
1. What if Tracy would have played Choi more?
2. What if Tracy would have played Perez more? (What if he wouldn't have pinch hit for him last night?)
3. What if we would have made a trade?
4. What if Gagne would have been the closer all year?
5. What if Tracy knew when to bunt and not to bunt?
6. What if Tracy would have been fired and replaced by a manager with Depo's style.
7. This one still stings - What if we hadn't been swept by the Royals?
8. What if the schedule was more balanced so we didn't have to play the Angels 6 times while San Diego played Seattle 6 times?
9. What if we wouldn't have had so many major players with injuries?
10. What if Scott Erickson had signed with another team before the season?
I'm sure there's plenty more, but these are the few that came to mind this morning. We may yet win the west, but there's no doubt in my mind we should have.
yeah, 4 that quote from Tracy struck me as kind of a weird idea. Is he suggesting that the younger Dodger relievers will become fearful if Dessens isn't around? Tracy makes it sound like Dessens puts Yhency or Broxton in a stroller with a lunchbox and wheels them out to the mound.
That said, I'm glad to be seeing Jackson get this start. In my schizoid denial/acceptance mode, I like the idea of using the spot start opportunity on a prospect rather than a has-been, even if that has-been is arguably a better bet. But deep down, the denial side of me says lightening will strike again and Jackson will dominate. Taking the fantasy a step further, wouldn't it be great if our playoff rotation was Penny-Weaver-Jackson and we wouldn't have to depend on Perez or Lowe? Okay, that went too far.
Your what-ifs #4 and #8 pretty much decided the season. We weren't strong enough to begin with to withstand the long-term loss of stars like Gagne, Drew and Bradley, plus Penny's late start, Werth's slow recovery, and the various other injuries that caused the team to use its weak assortment of AAA-level prospects. Perez, Navarro and Broxton might be part of the Dodgers' future (or at least good trade bait), but Repko, Edwards, Ross, Rose and Robles will be neither, but collectively they've played hundreds of games.
The Tracy stuff stands out much more because of the team's weakened condition. If the heart of the lineup had been Bradley-Kent-Drew-Werth then the question of whether Choi played or not wouldn't have taken on such importance.
And, yes, that sweep by the Royals really stunk, and looks especially pathetic now. They were on a brief, Buddy Bell-fueled high, and we caught them then. Plus, of course, the baseball Gods love bad LA Times columnists, so they had to give them a storyline like Lima's (or LoDuca's gimpylegged hit last night).
For what it's worth... the collective winning percentage of the teams we face the rest of the season (weighted for number of games against each team) is .452.
8, 6 - Agree with reason #4, but I think reason #8 is pretty irrelevant.
Actually, our interleague schedule was weaker than the Padres. The differences were that we played KC/Ana (collective .446 winning pct.), while San Diego played Sea/Cle (.486 winning pct.).
The fact that we couldn't beat the Royals is our own damn fault, and is not cause for pointing fingers at the schedule.
Hey, the Times actually published a letter suggesting that Tracy should be putting his best players in the lineup on an everyday basis. Uh...except the letter specifically singles out Choi and Saenz as players that are getting too many starts.
It's surely a coincidence that the one day out of 100 that I even glance at the letters, they contain expressions of insanity. No doubt on the other 99 days the editors chose to publish letters based on their well-reasoned and insightful commentary.
10 D'oh! It's early yet. I meant #4 and #9. I agree with you, the schedule imbalance means little either way.
The grossest schedule imbalance is the division set-up. Not only will the winner of the NL West have a worse record than at least two Wild Card runners-up, but they'll have achieved that record by playing a lot more games against other cruddy NL West teams.
Maybe it's because I just woke up, but that line from Bob makes me think of the lead in to the old Amazing Stories series, where all the cavemen huddled around the campfire to tell tales.
Of course, that's pretty much what I look like anyway, so it wasn't much of a stretch...
"Former Marlins pitcher Brad Penny returned to Dolphins Stadium for the first time since the July 2004 blockbuster trade that sent him to the Dodgers. He'll face his former teammates for the second time, looking for career win No. 27 in South Florida.
Despite his success here (26-14, 3.54 ERA) in 61 career appearances, Penny hasn't longed for the Dolphins Stadium ambiance.
'One of the best games I ever pitched crowd-wise was in L.A. last Sunday,' said Penny, who outlasted Pedro Martinez to beat the Mets. 'There's a big difference pitching in L.A. and somewhere like here, where it's not that loud. When you get a crowd like you do in L.A., it makes it a lot easier to pitch than it is here.' "
Capable Backups:
LF- Ricky Ledee- .817
SS- Oscar Robles- .711
RF- Jose Cruz JR- .767
Useless Parts (Only late inning defensive subs)
3rd- Jose Valentin- .603
SS- Cesar Izturis- .626
C- Jason Phillips- .671
We win the NL West and at least have a fighting chance against the Cards if the following are implemented. If we ran out this lineup against the Cards (in their current injured state), I'd expect us to win.
The Braves today feature a homegrown lineup. Their best homegrown talent, Andruw Jones, is not even starting today. And in a roster move, they brought their first round draft pick in 2005 to the roster today after releasing Jim Brower. Oh, by the way, the Braves are in first place.
Having watched my share of baseball games when the stadium was less than 4% full (Hawaii Islanders/Aloha Stadium), Penny's remarks are dead on. Even from a fan's perspective, the more people in the seats the better the experience.
The Padres don't want to make today easy for the Dodgers. Through 4 IP, Pedro Astacio has given up 2 hits, both followed immediately by double plays. The only other base runner reached on a strike out wild pitch
Over at BTF, a rampaging DBacks fan is crowing about how great Shawn Green is defensively in center field, and hoping the DBacks keep him in CF through 2007.
Hey, give 'em a break. They've only had baseball there for 8 years.
3 First off I love watching Edwin pitch so I'll be rooting for him Monday. I hope he does well.
My concern is that the guy is just getting it right. Should we really throw him into the fire this soon? I mean a couple months ago he was getting his brains bashed in in LV and by everyone's admission he didn't trust his stuff and was trying to paint the corners out of desperation. Now he's the player of the week with a few good starts and the Dodgers are tossing him out there. I just fear it's too much too soon.
Why not let the guy make his last two starts in JAX, hopefully good ones, then during call ups let him pitch an inning here and there out of the bullpen. Go into the offseason with his head high and see what he has in the spring?
Instead, if this guy isn't on his game come Monday does this wreck his confidence again and send him spinning backwards?
Babying? Perhaps. But I don't see what an extra couple minor league starts would hurt. Yeah the Dodgers are in a pinch but Dessens is perfectly capable of pitching in a spot start.
20 - You're certainly right that a couple more minor league starts wouldn't hurt. In fact, I'd be in favor of leaving him down there for those starts if we didn't need a starter right now.
But I'm also in favor of the major league team winning baseball games. Which is why calling up Jackson is the better idea, IMO.
I figured we'd all get a kick out of this quote from rotoworld.com:
"Cesar Izturis, still occupying the leadoff spot for the Dodgers, went 0-for-4 tonight and is batting .194 this month.
Is there a more stubborn manager that Jim Tracy? Izturis is batting .175 with 10 walks in 217 AB since the beginning of June and he still hasn't been dropped in the order. He's scored a total of 15 runs in his last 54 games. Aug. 19 - 10:36 pm et"
Well, considering Edwin was pulled after one inning yesterday and Erickson threw 5 1/3, I think it's safe to say that the Dodgers' brass plan to use Edwin on monday. That should at least alleviate some of the fears that some of us had.
3 - then it's time the Dodgers pulled out of Las Vegas. I've never liked the idea of trying to teach pitching for a club whose home park is as pitcher-friendly as Dodger Stadium in an environment so thoroughly hostile as Cashman Field. (OTOH, the Dodgers used to have a AAA club in Albuquerque, which is by far the biggest launching pad in the minors.)
24 - I agree wholeheartedly that we should get rid of Vegas. Great AAA city, but horrible for player development. I always felt the same about ABQ too, much as I love that city.
Major league teams would do best by simulating their major league environment as closely as possible at AAA... Colorado (thin air) and Toronto (turf) have the right idea.
Problem is, if we ditch Vegas then we need to add another farm team closer to L.A., because Vegas is the only farm team we have that's nearby where guys can go for rehab assignments.
So, nominations for our new AAA city? San Diego and Orange County are already taken, alas. Somewhere else in Southern California?
Besides, if we change cities, Steve Schmoll will no longer have to get nervous about that big "Visit Las Vegas" sign that seems to be over his shoulder whenever he's pitching on TV.
22-
Agree w/ you in theory, but a study was done (by sabermetricians, I believe) to assess the value of line-up order. Computer simulations showed that the best possible line-up would account for only 3 and a half more games won (if I remember correctly) than the worst possible line-up. And even w/ Izturis leading off, the dodger line-up is far closer to the former than the latter.
25 I nominate Santa Clarita (Valencia, Newhall, whatever name you guys are familiar with). We need a minor league team and we're only an hour from DS =)
Santa Barbara, Santa Maria or San Luis Obispo. The Central Coast would clearly support a AAA team. They get Fox Sports West and follow the Dodgers (and Angels) closely up there. While the Central Coast isn't booming like Vegas, it is growing, especially around Santa Maria, and there's a lot of open land (former oilfields). The climate is much like LA, i.e. moist, heavy air in the evenings and early mornings, hot and dry in the daytime. The further inland, the hotter it gets. They live for tourism up there, and a AAA team could be a tour stop like Hearst Castle.
32 I don't think there's enough population on the central coast to support a AAA team. A Single-A team yes, but not AAA. Plus, I'm not sure how amped laid back beach folk are on baseball so I think they would have attendance problems.
30 - Long Beach is in Orange County, right? Which means exclusive rights for the Angels and I don't think they're about to give us permission.
Otherwise, it would probably be a good idea. It would also save players on the constant AAA shuttle a lot in terms of moving expenses and rental hassles.
26 You know, I'm totally in favor of being sabermetric in a lot of situations, but batting order is one that I have to go old-fashioned on. Sure it might not show up in some simulation, but there's always the psychological level of it. When you have a lead-off hitter who never gets on base, it has to dampen the confidence of the rest of the line-up. Having someone like Johnny Damon setting the table gives a team a lot more swagger not to mention giving the middle of the order hitters someone to knock in.
Starting next year, the Pioneer League and Sally League (both of which we have teams in) will be the same level, short season Low A. So we could ditch Columbus and instead get ourselves a Cal League team. Then we could try to move AAA to Portland or someplace like that.
Also, in re #30, it's worth noting that the Dodgers do not have the right to "move" the 51s anywhere. The 51s are an independenly owned franchise and, seeing as how they play in the best market in AAA, I doubt they would move anywhere willingly.
What the Dodgers would have to do is either 1) Find an investor to buy a struggling AAA team (yes, I'm looking at you, Ottawa) and move it where we want it to go, or
2) The Dodgers could buy the franchise themselves and run it. This is what the Mets do with their Brooklyn farm team.
Actually, after looking at those attendance numbers, I might have to take back my comment about LV being the best AAA market. It should be the best AAA market, but... pretty pathetic.
Devine allowed a base hit to Fick, but got out of the inning. Had some ground outs and Olivo was out on batter's interference. Fick is out of the game and Saenez to pitch the bottom of the 12th
Eric, since Arte Moreno has dubbed his team the Los Angeles Angels I don't see how he could block the Dodgers moving their Triple A team to Orange County. And Portland would not be a good spot for Dodgers Triple A. They play on plastic grass there. If not for that, I would be there tomorrow afternoon to see Vegas play.
I have always been a baseball traditionalist. If I was running the Dodgers my Triple A team would be in Hollywood and they would be named the Hollywood Stars. Not sure where Hollywood is in relationship to LA. For that matter, LA is a big enough market that the Dodgers could put a team downtown.
32-
I go to UCSB and I would love for the triple A Dodger team to move there. Obviously a proper stadium would have to be built, but there is a good amount of Dodger support there and people obviously have money to waste so I think it could do well. Vegas has too much to do for people to worry about a AAA team.
After a leadoff single by McCann, Devine struck out bunting, then Furcal struck out as Orr (PR) was caught stealing. Going to the 13th. The Braves are running out of relievers, and Devine is hardly a sure thing for the 13th. The Pads still have Linebrink and Hoffman, and there's no reason to take Saenez out
Eric Young stole 2nd on a pitchout, so Phillips isn't the only one who can't throw out a runner on a pitchout (although Pena has been in the game for only this inning)
Don't think that you can have a minor league team that close to a major league team. I think there are even more restrictions for Triple A....I think it is great that they are bringing up Jackson, they need to take a look at him and I see this game as almost a free way to do it. Who is being sent down Broxton?
59 - All MLB teams have defined geographic territories on which no other team can legally encroach. The name the MLB team chooses to use for marketing purposes, alas, has zero to do with it. They could call themselves the Winston-Salem Angels and it wouldn't make a difference.
Not sure if it's been noted here, but the Red Sox are considering calling up 1st round pick Craig Hansen. He's the same age as Hochevar (and Edwin Jackson for that matter). Makes you think Hochevar could contribute in 2006 if we get him signed.
70 The Braves beat the Red Sox to it with Joey Devine, who is also 21 and drafted this year. Didn't work so good, as he gave up a slam. It seems the teams see Huston Street and hope for the same thing. Ignoring the fact that Street pitched in the minors and AFL before the majors
The Pads game is final. So why did Devine bat with Franco on the bench? And why did he stay in there after he loaded the bases on a 4 pitch walk? Cox did not impress me today...
I can't believe that Nady hit a Grand Slam with 2 strikes. The Braves bullpen have been horrible this year. I think the Braves will lose there division lead first before the Padres do.
Warning: The following broadcast contains commercials by Cars for Causes. Listening to Rick and Bobby is known to cause cats to fling themselves under the wheels of moving cars, dogs to eat their tails, and hair growth and cellular degeneration in homo sapiens. Avoid if susceptible.
I can't believe Izturis is out of the lineup. Choi is playing and he is batting second. Looks like Tracy decided to heed the advice of Dodger Thoughts. :-)
A good way to tell how clueless your organization is is by figuring the ratio of years in existence to the number of different names you've given the same stadium. For example, Florida's ratio is a putrid 3.25:1. They've been around 13 years and have called their stadium the following:
Joe Robbie Stadium
Pro Player Stadium
Tropicana Stadium
Dolphin Stadium
When it was called Joe Robbie Stadium, there was a Dolphins punter by the name of Reggie Roby. As a kid, I used to wonder if there was a connnection...
Just tuned in...
What an amazing lineup. Of course, I agree with everyone in this cannot be Tracy's doing. DePo must've faxed it to the 305, probably after the last out last night.
Tracy was scared that Choi would score, better to get him out. Seriously, why? At least Izzy/Robles hit and runs have a fast base runner and good contact hitter (by Tracy standards anyways)
Wha? No TV broadcast tonight? FSN West 2 must have pre-empted the Dodgers for a poker tournament featuring guys in funny outfits, or nude women's volleyball.
115
Thanks for the info. I've stopped reading threads when I come in late. Way to many and most of it is now just whining which is not why I used to read Dodger Thoughts.
Dave Niehaus, the Mariners broadcaster, has called Tropicana Field the Ebbets Field of the South on more than one occasion. I don't think Dave likes indoor baseball anymore than I do.
127"has called Tropicana Field the Ebbets Field of the South" That could mean a lot of things. Did he mean in the sense of it being a fabled, hallowed hall of field-of-dream memories? Or in the sense of it being a urine-soaked wreck whose occupants were soon to relocate to California?
Penny needs to have his out pitches working to be dominant like he was against the Mets last time out, he let Cabrera foul off like 5 pitches with 2 strikes in that at-bat.
Good thing Penny got robbed otherwise we would have inevitably been victim to the Grabowski principle (I think, still don't quite understand the rules).
165- Wouldn't the Grabowski Principle just say that Moehler should be removed from the game immediately? And Penny should have hit a home run to really trigger it.
169 MLB.tv says that due to national broadcast restrictions (which in the past has meant Sunday Night Baseball or Fox Saturday game) I can't access the game. It's not on Fox here, so I'm curious what's blocking me.
Fox has blocked this game, because they have an exclusive window from 100-400 from their games. Since the Angels-Red Sox game is on, they won't show the Dodgers game anywhere.
Eric, trying to get Steiner to pronounce names correctly, provide meaningful commentary, or just provide accurate play by play is a hopeless task. Is he with Monday on the radio today? The Marlin broadcasters are better than those two.
Bullpen activity for the Marlins? Apparently they thought that a Robles single was a Grabowski principle. Maybe they were confused and thought Izzy was leading off today?
At least the Fox Los Angeles Angel game is a good one.
I understand that Fox has the 1:00 - 4:00 time frame but why wouldn't FSN or FSN2 pick it up at 04:00 or has that also already been discussed in much detail buried in other threads?
Icaros, says MLB. Fox has an exclusive deal, where they get to be the only ones to show a MLB game in the 100-400 PM window with their national television deal. That's why the game isn't being shown in LA.
"President Walter O'Malley said yesterday that the Dodgers organization had acceded to the pleas of shut-ins and city officials - although he declined to name the city officials - to allow television of the games away from home."
In 1964, the Dodgers and Giants joined together on an early pay-TV plan that would have cost viewers $1.50 per game. (They announced it after the 1963 season.)
I don't know if any games made it on to the air that way, but in November of 1964 California voters approved Proposition 15, which banned pay television in the state of California.
Not surprisingly, the courts invalidated the proposition because there is no right for a state to regulate a Federal activity. But pay TV didn't come back for years.
"In 1964, the Dodgers and Giants joined together on an early pay-TV plan that would have cost viewers $1.50 per game. (They announced it after the 1963 season.)"
------------
You think that's bad, you can listen to Vero Beach Dodgers games online. Their website proclaims that "For a flat $40 you can listen to the entire game!"
#235: Bob, that O'Malley guy is all heart. Actually I wish the O'Malley family still owned the Dodgers. Except for Strawberry they didn't make too many decisions that bothered me.
In hindsite the Strawberry decision was terrible but at the time I don't recall to many Dodger fans complaining, but then there wasn't a Dodger Thoughts to find out what the intelligent Dodger fan thought.
Hmm, the Dodgers did have a few pay TV games in 1964 on a service called STV (Subscription TV) which was run by Pat Weaver (father of Sigourney). But they couldn't get Scully to do the play-by-play.
Instead it was some guy named Frank Sims.
They only wired about 3,500 homes in the Westside along La Cienega.
278 - Tell me about it. I'm quite certain Choi would have success anywhere in the order if given the chance. However, as long as Robles hits in front of him, I'm okay with it.
280 LOL. You must have heard last night's telecast. Lyons said that he'd prefer Kent to double in the 9th, rather than a HR, to keep the momentum going. OMG...
Every ball doesnt look like it was hit hard and then end up on the warning track in deep center. Its like theres a jet stream going straight out to center.
302 The way Steiner described em they were pretty dang close. His call was strange on both, he started off making them sound like lazy fly balls then he kept getting more excited before yelling out that they were caught at the wall.
Instead of showing the game to which they have exclusive rights, Fox's LA affiliate is showing a public-access-crappy trivia game show the grand prize for which seems to be a sandwich.
Purcey - I think Tracy's teasing us today. He knew the game wouldn't be on TV, so he FINALLY gave us a lineup that is at least CLOSE to what we've been wanting to see. The major exception being Valentin over Perez, of course.
I guess the reasoning is let's see what he has before Sept call-ups but I think they might be making a mistake with this one. The guy should be handled carefully for at least a few more AA starts I think.
I'd go with Dessens and hope for the best rather than potentially wrecking Jackson.
Random Dodger game callback
August 20, 1982
Coming off of a World Series championship, the 1982 Dodgers looked like they were headed back to the postseason again after they kept their first place lead at 3 games over the Atlanta Braves as Fernando Valenzuela threw a 2-hit shutout and Ron Cey hit a solo home run to account for all of the scoring in a 1-0 Dodgers win over the Pirates at Three Rivers Stadium. A crowd of 15,245 looked on as the Dodgers improved to 69-54.
There wasn't any sophomore jinx for Valenzuela. He would go 19-13 in 1982 with a 2.87 ERA. His strikeout total dropped to 199 from 245 in the strike-shortened 1981 season. Steve Carlton won the Cy Young Award.
On this day in August, Cey hit a solo home run off of Larry McWilliams in the second, but the Dodgers did little else, striking out 10 times overall with just five hits. But Valenzuela was even better, allowing a first inning single to Dale Berra and a fifth inning single to Johnny Ray. Valenzuela set down 14 of the last 15 Pirates, eight by strikeout.
1982 was a turbulent year for the Dodgers. The Braves won their first 13 games of the season and on July 29, the Braves led the second place Padres by 9 games, the third place Dodgers by 10 ½ and the fourth place Giants by 14.
The Dodgers came to Atlanta to start a four-game series on July 30 that started with a doubleheader. In the first game, the Dodgers appeared to be dead and buried, trailing 6-1 after four innings, but then the Dodgers stormed back to win the opener 10-9. They took the nightcap 8-2 and then won the final two games of the series. The Braves lost 19 of 21 games and the Dodgers went 16-5, including a 21 inning 2-1 win over the Cubs in which manager Tommy Lasorda used all 25 players on the roster.
But in September, both the Dodgers and Braves faltered a bit and the Giants got hot. Going into the final weekend of the season, the Braves led the Dodgers and Giants by one game. The Braves were in San Diego, while the Dodgers and Giants played in San Francisco. The Dodgers and Braves both won their first two games and the Giants were eliminated. And then in Game 162, Lasorda made the fateful decision to pinch hit for Valenzuela with Jorge Orta and reliever Terry Forster joined the rogues gallery of Dodger pitchers who gave up inopportune home runs to Giants players. The Dodgers finished 88-74, 1 game behind the Braves who had lost their final game to the Padres.
1982 saw the breakup of the Dodgers longtime Garvey-Lopes-Russell-Cey infield. Davey Lopes was the first player to go and Steve Sax took over. And Sax shone, winning Rookie of the Year honors with a .282 average and 49 stolen bases. Pedro Guerrero slugged 32 home runs and batted .304 with an OPS of .378.
The Dodgers had three great starters in Valenzuela, Bob Welch and Jerry Ruess, but the back end of the rotation was shaky with Dave Stewart, Burt Hooton, and Vicente Romo taking turns. Romo was pitching for the Dodgers for the first time since 1968.
Steve Howe saved 13 games with a 2.08 ERA. Tom Niedenfuer saved 9 games and even Forster managed to pick up three. And in even better news, Dave Goltz was released.
Coming up a game short wasn't good enough for the Dodgers. There were hot prospects that needed to get playing time, namely Mike Marshall and Greg Brock. Both liked to play first. And the Dodgers decided it was time to further dismantle the infield as Steve Garvey would leave as a free agent and Cey would be traded.
Thanks to the New York Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet
HOWEVER, every quote I've ever seen from Jackson indicates that he's extraordinarily mature and level-headed for his age, and even if he were to get bombed (which seems unlikely), he'd probably recover well. If getting the crap beat out of him for one and a half seasons in AAA didn't wreck his confidence, I doubt one bad major league start will either.
The reasoning isn't "let's see what he has before September callups." The reasoning is "it's an emergency, we need a pitcher to make a spot start, and he is by far the best candidate in our minor league system to do so."
And besides, if he's on a hot streak, why waste that streak against minor league batters?
Of course, Tracy can't say that in public.
1. What if Tracy would have played Choi more?
2. What if Tracy would have played Perez more? (What if he wouldn't have pinch hit for him last night?)
3. What if we would have made a trade?
4. What if Gagne would have been the closer all year?
5. What if Tracy knew when to bunt and not to bunt?
6. What if Tracy would have been fired and replaced by a manager with Depo's style.
7. This one still stings - What if we hadn't been swept by the Royals?
8. What if the schedule was more balanced so we didn't have to play the Angels 6 times while San Diego played Seattle 6 times?
9. What if we wouldn't have had so many major players with injuries?
10. What if Scott Erickson had signed with another team before the season?
I'm sure there's plenty more, but these are the few that came to mind this morning. We may yet win the west, but there's no doubt in my mind we should have.
That said, I'm glad to be seeing Jackson get this start. In my schizoid denial/acceptance mode, I like the idea of using the spot start opportunity on a prospect rather than a has-been, even if that has-been is arguably a better bet. But deep down, the denial side of me says lightening will strike again and Jackson will dominate. Taking the fantasy a step further, wouldn't it be great if our playoff rotation was Penny-Weaver-Jackson and we wouldn't have to depend on Perez or Lowe? Okay, that went too far.
Your what-ifs #4 and #8 pretty much decided the season. We weren't strong enough to begin with to withstand the long-term loss of stars like Gagne, Drew and Bradley, plus Penny's late start, Werth's slow recovery, and the various other injuries that caused the team to use its weak assortment of AAA-level prospects. Perez, Navarro and Broxton might be part of the Dodgers' future (or at least good trade bait), but Repko, Edwards, Ross, Rose and Robles will be neither, but collectively they've played hundreds of games.
The Tracy stuff stands out much more because of the team's weakened condition. If the heart of the lineup had been Bradley-Kent-Drew-Werth then the question of whether Choi played or not wouldn't have taken on such importance.
And, yes, that sweep by the Royals really stunk, and looks especially pathetic now. They were on a brief, Buddy Bell-fueled high, and we caught them then. Plus, of course, the baseball Gods love bad LA Times columnists, so they had to give them a storyline like Lima's (or LoDuca's gimpylegged hit last night).
For the Padres, it's also .452.
Actually, our interleague schedule was weaker than the Padres. The differences were that we played KC/Ana (collective .446 winning pct.), while San Diego played Sea/Cle (.486 winning pct.).
The fact that we couldn't beat the Royals is our own damn fault, and is not cause for pointing fingers at the schedule.
It's surely a coincidence that the one day out of 100 that I even glance at the letters, they contain expressions of insanity. No doubt on the other 99 days the editors chose to publish letters based on their well-reasoned and insightful commentary.
The grossest schedule imbalance is the division set-up. Not only will the winner of the NL West have a worse record than at least two Wild Card runners-up, but they'll have achieved that record by playing a lot more games against other cruddy NL West teams.
Maybe it's because I just woke up, but that line from Bob makes me think of the lead in to the old Amazing Stories series, where all the cavemen huddled around the campfire to tell tales.
Of course, that's pretty much what I look like anyway, so it wasn't much of a stretch...
"Former Marlins pitcher Brad Penny returned to Dolphins Stadium for the first time since the July 2004 blockbuster trade that sent him to the Dodgers. He'll face his former teammates for the second time, looking for career win No. 27 in South Florida.
Despite his success here (26-14, 3.54 ERA) in 61 career appearances, Penny hasn't longed for the Dolphins Stadium ambiance.
'One of the best games I ever pitched crowd-wise was in L.A. last Sunday,' said Penny, who outlasted Pedro Martinez to beat the Mets. 'There's a big difference pitching in L.A. and somewhere like here, where it's not that loud. When you get a crowd like you do in L.A., it makes it a lot easier to pitch than it is here.' "
STARTERS
SS- AP- .829
1st- Choi- .791
RF- Drew- .932
2b- Kent- .903
CF- Bradley- .828
3rd- Saenz- .868
LF- Werth- .745
C- Navarro- .678
Pitcher
Capable Backups:
LF- Ricky Ledee- .817
SS- Oscar Robles- .711
RF- Jose Cruz JR- .767
Useless Parts (Only late inning defensive subs)
3rd- Jose Valentin- .603
SS- Cesar Izturis- .626
C- Jason Phillips- .671
We win the NL West and at least have a fighting chance against the Cards if the following are implemented. If we ran out this lineup against the Cards (in their current injured state), I'd expect us to win.
Stan from Tacoma
Hey, give 'em a break. They've only had baseball there for 8 years.
My concern is that the guy is just getting it right. Should we really throw him into the fire this soon? I mean a couple months ago he was getting his brains bashed in in LV and by everyone's admission he didn't trust his stuff and was trying to paint the corners out of desperation. Now he's the player of the week with a few good starts and the Dodgers are tossing him out there. I just fear it's too much too soon.
Why not let the guy make his last two starts in JAX, hopefully good ones, then during call ups let him pitch an inning here and there out of the bullpen. Go into the offseason with his head high and see what he has in the spring?
Instead, if this guy isn't on his game come Monday does this wreck his confidence again and send him spinning backwards?
Babying? Perhaps. But I don't see what an extra couple minor league starts would hurt. Yeah the Dodgers are in a pinch but Dessens is perfectly capable of pitching in a spot start.
But I'm also in favor of the major league team winning baseball games. Which is why calling up Jackson is the better idea, IMO.
"Cesar Izturis, still occupying the leadoff spot for the Dodgers, went 0-for-4 tonight and is batting .194 this month.
Is there a more stubborn manager that Jim Tracy? Izturis is batting .175 with 10 walks in 217 AB since the beginning of June and he still hasn't been dropped in the order. He's scored a total of 15 runs in his last 54 games. Aug. 19 - 10:36 pm et"
Major league teams would do best by simulating their major league environment as closely as possible at AAA... Colorado (thin air) and Toronto (turf) have the right idea.
Problem is, if we ditch Vegas then we need to add another farm team closer to L.A., because Vegas is the only farm team we have that's nearby where guys can go for rehab assignments.
So, nominations for our new AAA city? San Diego and Orange County are already taken, alas. Somewhere else in Southern California?
Besides, if we change cities, Steve Schmoll will no longer have to get nervous about that big "Visit Las Vegas" sign that seems to be over his shoulder whenever he's pitching on TV.
Agree w/ you in theory, but a study was done (by sabermetricians, I believe) to assess the value of line-up order. Computer simulations showed that the best possible line-up would account for only 3 and a half more games won (if I remember correctly) than the worst possible line-up. And even w/ Izturis leading off, the dodger line-up is far closer to the former than the latter.
Honolulu!
My bias aside, I don't have many better ideas
Cards leading the Giants 4-2 in the 8th
There've been a million independent teams there the past few years.
Otherwise, it would probably be a good idea. It would also save players on the constant AAA shuttle a lot in terms of moving expenses and rental hassles.
Starting next year, the Pioneer League and Sally League (both of which we have teams in) will be the same level, short season Low A. So we could ditch Columbus and instead get ourselves a Cal League team. Then we could try to move AAA to Portland or someplace like that.
Furcal on 2nd, 2 outs in the 10th there
What the Dodgers would have to do is either 1) Find an investor to buy a struggling AAA team (yes, I'm looking at you, Ottawa) and move it where we want it to go, or
2) The Dodgers could buy the franchise themselves and run it. This is what the Mets do with their Brooklyn farm team.
How many fans does a AAA team need to draw per game to make it viable?
Alou flew out to right, game over, Cards win
http://tinyurl.com/7a6jx
http://tinyurl.com/dgeo7
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I don't remember what the stated reason was, but the actual reason seems clear... LV is both much closer and less than half the elevation of ABQ.
Either that, or Jerry Royster likes Texas Hold 'Em a whole lot.
Though it's a small sample size, the White Sox' recent tailspin coinciding w/ Podsednik's stint on the DL would back your claim.
.578
.780
.781
.781
.735
.795
.708
.679
.657
They're missing Konerko's .897, as well as Podsednik's speed.
Guillen does stuff like this on purpose. Best to just ignore the White Sox into oblivion.
Nitpicking here on geography, but the southernmost city in Los Angeles County is ...
Los Angeles.
The Port of Los Angeles sticks out further south than the Port of Long Beach.
It was good enough for the Cubs!
Oh, wait...
I have always been a baseball traditionalist. If I was running the Dodgers my Triple A team would be in Hollywood and they would be named the Hollywood Stars. Not sure where Hollywood is in relationship to LA. For that matter, LA is a big enough market that the Dodgers could put a team downtown.
Stan from Tacoma
Long Beach is on the OC border, though. I know that much.
I go to UCSB and I would love for the triple A Dodger team to move there. Obviously a proper stadium would have to be built, but there is a good amount of Dodger support there and people obviously have money to waste so I think it could do well. Vegas has too much to do for people to worry about a AAA team.
Don't think that you can have a minor league team that close to a major league team. I think there are even more restrictions for Triple A....I think it is great that they are bringing up Jackson, they need to take a look at him and I see this game as almost a free way to do it. Who is being sent down Broxton?
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I'd guess they'll DL Repko retroactive to whenever, and then have him "rehab" in LV for a week or so.
Stan from Tacoma
Choi 1B
Bradley CF
Kent 2B
Ledee RF
Werth LF
Valentin 3B
Navarro C
Penny P
No, this is not a "what would my lineup be" post, this is the actual lineup!
SS - Robles
1B - Choi
CF - Bradley
2B - Kent
3B - Ledee
LF - Werth
3B - Valentin
C - Navarro
P - Penny
SS Robles
1B Choi
CF Bradley
2B Kent
RF Ledee
LF Werth
3B Valentin
C Navarro
P Penny
vs
2B Easley
RF Conine
LF Cabrera
1B Delgado
CF Encarnacion
3B Lowell
SS Gonzalez
C Treanor
P Moehler
Conine RF
Cabrera LF
Delgado 1B
Encarnacion CF
Lowell 3B
Gonzalez SS
Treanor C
Moehler P
Anyway, if Penny gets the win and Choi gets the winning RBI today, what's the LA Times headline?
No heart, No Soul, No Win for Dodgers.
wow, either Tracy has accidentally put together a great lineup, or someone upstairs was in his ear after last night's shut out.
I really hope it's the latter, and the start of a new trend.
Oh, and Weaver sounds stoned even in his Panda Express commercial.
Joe Robbie Stadium
Pro Player Stadium
Tropicana Stadium
Dolphin Stadium
did I miss any?
Dodgers' ratio is 44:1.
Bradley did it in the first inning last night.
Go Hee Seop BTW
What an amazing lineup. Of course, I agree with everyone in this cannot be Tracy's doing. DePo must've faxed it to the 305, probably after the last out last night.
DePo can't do everything to protect this team, it seems.
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Bad coaching there, overkill.
http://tinyurl.com/bhp7e
Joe Robbie
http://tinyurl.com/8el4r
Combined with the fact that both men are deceased, the resemblance is even more striking!
We've gone over why the game isn't on TV earlier in this thread and at length yesterday.
Sometimes sitting and watching is the best strategy.
I'm in provided the women are provided by Hugh Hefner.
Thanks for the info. I've stopped reading threads when I come in late. Way to many and most of it is now just whining which is not why I used to read Dodger Thoughts.
And we liked it!
So sayeth the man on the high horse.
Stan from Tacoma
Bring on the Sacramento Devil Rays!
Penny vs Moehler was suppose to be the easy game, it's Fox's fault, Penny wouldn't do that if he was on TV
How do we know it wasn't all faked? You know like the Moon landing? And the Kennedy assassination?
It's not denial. It's delusion.
This OBP/OPS monster of a lineup should be able to score 4 runs on Moehler. Unless Tracy keeps calling irrational steal attempts.
*(I know, it's Dolphin now)
Stan from Tacoma
What do yo know about that?
"Hit Sign, Win Suit."
Reggie Roby passed away in February at age 43. I believe it was of natural causes.
What do you mean by "national broadcast channel"?
Stan from Tacoma
Charter a supersonic plane and I think you can make it to the game before it's over.
There's plenty of Izturis and Repko clips on dodgers.com
I sure wish I knew what channel you guys were watching the game on.
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You could probably make it to Vancouver quicker, and watch from there.
Says who? :-)
I understand that Fox has the 1:00 - 4:00 time frame but why wouldn't FSN or FSN2 pick it up at 04:00 or has that also already been discussed in much detail buried in other threads?
I don't want to hear about cheerleaders!
I'm teasing.
Sorry, and thanks anyway.
"President Walter O'Malley said yesterday that the Dodgers organization had acceded to the pleas of shut-ins and city officials - although he declined to name the city officials - to allow television of the games away from home."
There were 8 games televised on KTTV in 1958.
I don't know if any games made it on to the air that way, but in November of 1964 California voters approved Proposition 15, which banned pay television in the state of California.
Not surprisingly, the courts invalidated the proposition because there is no right for a state to regulate a Federal activity. But pay TV didn't come back for years.
Ahh, but O'Malley wanted it.
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You think that's bad, you can listen to Vero Beach Dodgers games online. Their website proclaims that "For a flat $40 you can listen to the entire game!"
Stan from Tacoma
Instead it was some guy named Frank Sims.
They only wired about 3,500 homes in the Westside along La Cienega.
Well, I find it interesting....
But, his momma called him Clay, so I'm gonna call him Clay.
They're called "Olneys" on this site.
Which will like end up with just one run scored.
Funny how that works.
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Well, to be technical about it, his momma called him Cassius. His great-great-grandfather's slavemaster probably called him Clay.
another note, if choi hits for the cycle today, with the game not being on tv, i am going to be on angry dodger fan.
Coming to America, I believe.
This was around the time when Grace's job at first base was threatened by a hot young prospect in the Cubs minor leagues named:
Hee Seop Choi.
Yeah, sort of gave it that Paul Harvey like twist to it!
Mmm. Lunchtime!