I refuse to register for the LA Times. What's the gist of the Hochevar blurb?

Just a few days ago, I probably would have told you I was a pretty big fan of Milton Bradley. But his comments have really started to annoy me. I don't buy the "baseball holds African-Americans down" thing at all. Apparently baseball must be anti-blacks, but yet not have a problem with all the latin or Asian players. Get over it Milton. Here's a suggestion, maybe you are the problem, not the "white media."

1 - Dodgers have offered $2.5 mil, Boras/Hochevar want $4 mil. White's not optimistic that a deal will be done.

Classes start today. If Hochevar goes to class, the Dodgers lose rights.

1 Classes started, but they think he will wait a few days before deciding to attend. It mentions that Logan White isn't overly optimistic it will get done.

Does race matter? Of course it does. In all walks of life, organizations tend to promote those who are like them. Everywhere, not just in baseball. It just so happens that whites hold most positions of power. If blacks or Asian held positions of power, the white would probably notice subtle examples of racisim. So, I don't think Milton's commments really shed any new light.

I do think that Kent's style does not lend itself to being that of a leader, at least not in his first year with a team. If he had been here a couple of years, then he may have more pull. It takes a while to warm up to him. I still kinda don't like him, from his Giants days. :-)

2 - From what I understand, baseball invests much more in developing Latin players than it has in African-American players.

Simers "asked if he was trying to suggest the Dodgers were trying to keep the number of African American players in check, but he said no."

To bring up the topic of the "lesser" dugout dispute between Brad Penny and Tim Wallach, does anyone else think it's at least slightly ridiculous for a coach to be openly telling the media that he wanted a player on the other team hit?

Seems like the type of thing that should be kept quiet to me.

Milt would love playing in Detroit, they have the Soul Patrol II in the outfield.

Minny had SP III before Torriiii Hunter went down.

6 Bradley, while mentioning race numerous times, said that is wasn't trying to inject race into the argument. So which is it? But the fact is, Bradley was the one that brought it up, not me, not the media, not Kent.

As far as the money spend on developing players, I would assume that the difference is accounted for by all the academies set up in Latin countries to scout those players. Teams don't really need to go to another country to scout African-American players. I generally think that teams today are interesting in making money first and foremost, with winning second and all other potential motives and goals far behind. I think that teams will go where they think they can find players. Ten years from now when every team has an academy set up in India, I can't imagine anyone wondering why teams are spending more on scouting those players than Latin players. It's just the business.

Couldnt you also chock up some of these skewed representation numbers to the fact that colleges dont spend as much on baseball scholarships as they do basketball and football? Couldnt you also argue that interest in baseball pales in comparison to those sports within the african american community? I could be way off base here (to borrow a pun) but you dont hear much about people trying to 'make it' by being the baddest short stop you ever saw..

7 - I don't think Wallach is actually quoted about the incident in the paper, is he? But I basically agree with you.

9 - "Bradley, while mentioning race numerous times, said that is wasn't trying to inject race into the argument. So which is it? But the fact is, Bradley was the one that brought it up, not me, not the media, not Kent."

I assume that Bradley thinks that because Kent has the racial insensitivity, Kent initiated it. But whatever. I agree that Bradley can make some contradictory statements.

11-

It only says that Wallach acknowledged that he did not know that Penny had talked with Kent at the time that he confronted Penny.

I think more importantly, Milton Bradley played the Jeff Foxworthy card.

8
sadly, lew ford has no soul

soul patrol I was jones/hunter/lawton, correct?

3.4.- Thanks, so there was absolutely no new infomration in that story, except that the Dodgers aren't going above $2.5MM. Given that he was asking for more $5.0MM going into the draft, I'm surprised the Dodgers would have drafted him knowing that they wouldn't offer more than half of his original asking price.

16 - It could just have been a flyer - go after someone big knowing they had draft picks to get the next level of talent. It could also be that they felt good about their leverage, based on what I wrote up top.

15
And Shannon Stewart hurt himself last night, so there will be less soul in Minneapolis.

11, 13 - Maybe there's no direct quote, but it doesn't take much reading between the lines to see what he was mad about.

I don't know, I guess I'm just tired of reading about these grown men arguing like children and would be more interested in hearing the hitting coach discuss some issues related to hitting, like why his leadoff hitter refuses to see more than three pitches per at bat.

20 If I were a professional athlete, I would never speak to the media. When I was in my 20's I was too emotional and impulsive to make any sense. I would have embarrassed myself all the time.

I've interviewed high school athletes and they all seem to speak in cliches already. They aren't all that outspoken.

Guys like Bradley are an exception.

19 - Again, I agree with you except for the fact that there's no evidence Wallach wanted to talk about it with the media. Sounds like the story came out and he was confronted with it - his public dealings with the situation are pretty quiet.

But yeah, getting mad at a pitcher who doesn't want to hit a batter intentionally? I'm not behind that.

19--

I am not surprised that the hitting coach wants his hitters protected...I'm just surprised that it is in the papers. It sounded to me like a fair exchange that got settled rather quickly.

My impression of Wallach is not that he is sitting around talking about what players our pitchers should hit that day. My guess is that he is working on hitting issues with every hitter on our team. Good coaches have a player focused on one area at a time...most people (even professional athletes) cannot make multiple adjustments at once. I have no doubt he is working with Izturis on his hitting although since he likely has multiple issues to work on, pitch selection may or may not be Wallach's first choice.

22 - Point taken. I'm not even totally against hitting a batter intentionally, depending on the circumstances.

But whatever happened to players and coaches just saying, "No comment"?

Maybe that went out of style the same year that umpires started yelling back at players and coaches instead of turning their backs.

22--

It didn't sound to me like Penny did not want to hit a player intentionally. Instead, he left it up to Kent and Kent told him not to do it. If Kent said to do it, he would have been willing to do it.

20: Well, as annoying and instrusive as the media can be, players (and coaches) have to be reminded now and again that they're in the entertainment business. Without the media, all sports leagues would close up shop pretty quickly, to say nothing of supporting multimillionaires in the manner to which they've become accustomed. And, for better or worse, sports fans want more than box scores. The athletes need the media more than the media need the athletes (they can move on to other sources of entertainment). So shunning the scribes and cameras really shouldn't be an option.

The NFL has a better handle on things, but then, they've broken the back of their players' union too.

There's an interesting article over at the newly-resurrected Fourth Outfielder by Paul Scott which examines the declining walk rates of Bradley, Izturis, and Choi under Wallach's tenure.

It's an interesting read.

http://tinyurl.com/e2vfc

Speaking as a Southern white male, I can attest to the unfortunate fact that racism simmers just under the surface of our culture.

I can't tell you how many otherwise wonderful people have made absolutely jaw-dropping statements to me -- in jest or in ignorance -- about people of color. It's sick and it's sad, and while I want to hope Milton Bradley is dead wrong, I'm left to wonder if maybe we ought to listen to him a bit more than we are.

And yes, I apologize for stereotyping Kent based on his choice of offseason locale. Obviously (and hopefully), not all SWM (Southern white males) are racist rednecks. Brad Penny certainly seems to rise above such nonsense.

I think Penny didn't want to hit a batter also because he was letting enough of them get on base on his own in that start in Florida.

29 but with the sweltering heat, he could've saved himself a few pitches.

It seems Bradley is taking on a role that is bigger than "leader of the Dodgers", thats the only way I can justify him taking these statements to the media... or else he appears to be a somewhat insecure individual who is trying to get everybody on his side in this matter.

28: Kent is a cipher. Born and raised in Southern California. College in Berkeley. Yet you'd never guess any of that from his public persona. I have a colleague like that. A brilliant, eastern-educated philosopher, from the SF Valley, who thinks he's a Texan, cuz he lived there for 5 or 10 years. Weird.

Racism is real, as are false (and malicious) accusations of racism. And in the politically correct age that we live in, to be accused is tantamout to being convicted - you're guilty until proved innocent - so it's a dangerous weapon to wield. But maybe I'm over-sensitized to these things, seeing as how I've been in university settings for the last 20 years. PC run amok, and it's too bad, because it becomes cliche and gets in the way of real progress sometimes.

But to me, the gist of Bradley's objection to Kent's "leadership" has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with Kent talking the leadership talk, but not ACTING like a leader. I'll be surprised if Bradley doesn't retract the "racist" part of the accusation, at least for public consumption. And I'll be surprised if either guy is off the team next year.

27 Nice article. Pretty much sums up my suspicions. In spite of what Wallach says in public, his coaching has made some batter much less patient.

28 I also want to listen closely to Bradley on this. As far as I can tell, he's very popular with his teammates, he's shown a willingness to play hurt, and he's made real efforts to control the anger problems that plagued him previously. From his comments, I get the feeling that Kent has made numerous remarks over time that Bradley didn't appreciate. Considering that Kent, from all reports, keeps to himself and doesn't interact much with his teammates, I'd get tired of brushing aside a lot of pointed "jokes" from a guy like that, too. Maybe Bradley would have been wise not to bring all this to the media's attention, but I can understand it - especially if it all comes to a head with Kent challenging Bradley's leadership in front of his teammates (or at least Bradley interpreting it that way.)

Also, Bradley's comments aren't all that muddled. He makes the point that "we all joke about race here" - that joking about race is OK among friends, in a certain tone. It's not so OK coming from a cold, distant jerk that rarely has anything good to say to you to balance out his "jokes." That's certainly my experiece of the world.

As much as I generally dislike and disrespect the LA Times (and especially T.J. Simers), my hat is off to the Times today for its exemplary coverage of the Kent/Bradley dispute. They avoided being either incendiary or politically correct, accurately (unlike some of the wires and web portals) characterized Bradley's remarks, and overall treated the story as one about two difficult individuals, rather than black v. white.

These are a couple of weird guys. Bradley has a persecution complex, and Kent was pegged accurately by GoBears in 31 above. It's kind of unfortunate, but not untypical for people touched by a kind of genius to be impolite and self-centered. If we accept that Ernest Hemingway and Ezra Pound (to pick two of thousands of possible examples) could sometimes say or do things that were completely unacceptable and yet teach their works in every major university, we can accept that a couple of our ballplayers have twisted views of the world.

34-But then again maybe Kent was trying to break the ice and be one of the guys by making a joke (race related or not) and now Bradley blew it out of proportion Kent is likely to slide back into his outcast role.

PENAROL!!!!

Is that you? I thought you were dead. Come back, I miss you.

6 - From what I understand, baseball invests much more in developing Latin players than it has in African-American players.

What does this mean exactly? If the understanding was that baseball invests much more in developing white players than it has in African-American players, then I think there would be an issue.

Because the NBA is predominantly black, does that mean that the NBA invests more in black players vs. white? No, I don't think so. I think in America itself the issue is cultural-geographical. My guess is that many more white kids play organized baseball growing up and inversely more black kids play organized basketball. I don't think it is an investment issue related to race at all.

MB may have legitimate concerns with Kent. Those concerns should be addressed man to man and if they are unable to reach an understanding then let management intervene. Using the media is BS and counterproductive. I've lost a lot of respect for the way MB is using the media in this situation.

Luke Hochevar is making a big mistake. He's a pitcher not a position player. The colleges are littered with pitchers who blew their arm out. The only way this works for him financially is to become the number one pick. To do that he is going to have to have one hell of season. I don't really care if we sign him or not. It would have been a nice bonus to have picked up such a talent with our late pick but I'm not going to castigate the Dodgers for not giving a pitcher the huge bonus they are looking for. I'd increase the bonus myself but I wouldnt' increase it to 4 million. I'd give a little and hope they give a little. If not, then take your chances and the odds aren't in his favor that he will come out better financially by playing his senior card. I'm always bemused by baseball holdouts over a million dollars. The faster they get to the big leagues the faster that million becomes 10 million per year. 2 1/2 million is enough protection if you blow your arm out. The rest is just ego.

Well I finally finished my move to Charlotte and have just had some time to catch up on what the boys in blue have been up to.

I totally agree with Rob's comment, 33.

I also think that Simers' piece was his best, and I generally don't like him.

As for the Hochevar situation, I've always tried to see Boras as a businessman and ignore the criticisms of him as frustrations from those that he beats. However, more and more often I see stories of players who re-enter the draft and make like 50,000 more, less the salary they would have made the previous year. I'm starting to believe that Boras plays hardball with rookies, at their expense, to maintain his reputation when it comes to his FA negotiations. It's really a shame for some of these kids, especially those that don't become superstars. There is some interesting insight about Boras and baseball agents in general in "License to Deal" by Jerry Crasnick.

38 - All I was trying to say is that baseball apparenly has major development operations in Latin American countries that it does not seem to have in African-American communities. My sense is that this is because those foreign players are not subject to the draft and therefore the investment can be recouped more directly.

The result of this being that baseball isn't racist per se, but that baseball practices can lead to a declining percentage of African-American players. It's not intentionally related to race, but it conceivably relates to race.

My stepdaddy has invited me to tonight's game. The seats will be fifteen rows behind home plate, field level. It'd be nice if I could report that my stepdaddy is rich but actually, the seats belong to my stepdaddy's rich friend. But a guy can dream...

I plan on cheering loudly when Bradley comes to the plate if he plays. I plan on doing the same thing for Kent. Outside of the Korean Crusher, they are my two favorite players on the 2005 Dodgers.

I think we should all give thanks that Bill Plaschke is on a long vacation now because I would really hate to read what he thinks about the situation.

42 I was actually a few rows up behind homeplate last night. Amazing, with such service. I'm the baldie in the grey shirt (later navy sweatjacket) cheering wildly for Choi, Weaver, Navarro if you catch the highlights.

Hmmm, my links aren't working. Underscore, number, underscore?

[X]

I may have said this before, but baseball's decline in popularity among African-American kids may have something to do with needing 17 like-minded others to get up a game. The cost of equipment keeps rising; the days of the $10 glove are long gone. Open lots that could be turned into diamonds are few and far between in the suburbs or cities, too.

Basketball can be 3-on-3 with a concrete court and metal nets; it's just easier to find places and equipment to play with. And never underestimate Michael Jordan's star power, or that of Iverson and the rest of the NBA.

42 Korean Crusher, lol, I like that. I think it is better than Chopper. How about Korean Krusher?

As I mentioned when the hoopla first broke, Kent and Bradley are two of my favorite Dodgers, so this is a frustrating situation all round.

I absolutely agree that it should have been handled behind closed doors -- Bradley, IMHO did the right thing when he went to Tracy, and the wrong thing by talking to the media afterwards.

I don't know what Kent said (or said multiple times)... but as he pointed out, he's played for and been mentored by several high-profile African-Americans, so it's hard to think that it's specifically a racism thing -- though it may be an insensitivity thing.

But unless the comments he said were so insulting and racist, I don't see what anyone gains by taking it public.

42 SB, If we see you talking on a cell phone, we're coming to get you...

I've asked this before I think:

How many African-Americans are there in the majors now who grew up in cities?

Bradley
Willis
Sheffield
Sabathia (he was born in Vallejo, so I don't know if he qualifies)
Patterson

There are players like Griffey and Bonds who had much different upbringings. Edwin Jackson was a military kid I believe. So was Dmitri Young.

Juan Pierre and Chone Figgins grew up in the South. Jeter grew up in a middle class family.

41 - My sense is that this is because those foreign players are not subject to the draft and therefore the investment can be recouped more directly.

Agree completely.

The result of this being that baseball isn't racist per se, but that baseball practices can lead to a declining percentage of African-American players. It's not intentionally related to race, but it conceivably relates to race.

And what I was trying to convey in 38 is that you could substitute "African-American" with "white" above and it would be just as true.

And let me add this...

I'm a lot like Bradley: I thrive on group work, I care what others think of me, I want everyone on the team to be included and I don't want anyone to be left out or me to be left out. That's a syllable-for-syllabe description of me in the recently concluded LAUSD District Intern Orientation Program. I was open to suggestions from everyone because my own confidence as an educator was just beginning to blossom. This prompted some to call me a "leader" because I was high-energy guy who was the life of the group.

In the program, I worked with another guy who was a lot like Kent: an intense, experienced educator. He cared deeply about the profession, knew what he was doing and didn't mind letting people know as much. He was a little removed from the rest of us but far from unfriendly. He just tended to keep to himself unless he was called upon to work with a group (which he would do quite well). He did not like being told what to do or how to do things; he'd done it all before. This prompted some to call him a "veteran leader" because he'd seen more than the rest of us (13-year old Devin Brown was in his classroom; he told me movingly how he had to deal with that but he did not share it with the group in spite of my suggestion he do so).

I'm white. The other guy I just described is black. We clashed a couple of times. Most people who dealt with him said I had plenty of company. We became good friends but we didn't have to co-exist in a highly competitive environment where many people watch and judge your every move. If we did, I think we'd be both be in the headlines. I'm glad to say we are not because I value his friendship. I don't doubt that such a friendship would not have been possible had we both been primary players for a major sports team.

50 You just worry about diving for those foul balls! :)

53 Nice post.

Jon, I think the key comparison here is, how much is MLB spending per player on developing white ballplayers vs. developing black ballplayers? That's where race could conceivably become an issue. I'm sure the Latin academies are a major expense, but perceived as necessary because you're setting up shop in a foreign country, where they speak a different language and you're far away from the home office.

If you want to ask why not set up academies in African-American communities, well, that may be a constructive notion. But perhaps MLB looks at black American and white American prospects as being essentially alike, and that there is no need to treat them differently.

40 - LtD (not Livan the Destroyer, but License to Deal) does provide a little insight into the agent biz, but that's all; just a little bit. I admit that I was disappointed by the book. I'd be interested to discuss the book with anyone who's read it.

55 Thanks!

43 I'd give it a shot but I'm still recovering from the last time I tried to write like Plaschke. Every time I type more than one sentence in a paragraph, my fingers twitch.

56 - Perhaps. And I do get nervous using racial categories when socio-economic categories are more appropriate. So in that vein, would it make sense for baseball to spend the same amount of development money in richer communities as in poorer communities? Doubtful.

53 - that was a nice post, SB

60 Well, it's been four months since my bio of Footsie Belardi so one could say I was due. And thanks...

37.
It is me, but no, I'm not coming back.

MLB has been concerned for a while (probably since the Campanis incident) about inner-city baseball. That's what that RBI (Reviving Baseball in the Inner city) initiative is all about. And I note that Bradley doesn't just whine - he's been personally involved in a couple such projects since he came to LA. But for all the reasons mentioned, it's a losing battle. Basketball is more popular and cheaper in terms of space and equipment. Also requires fewer players, and frankly, is easier for novices to enjoy. Beer softball leagues, while quite fun, don't do much to prepare one for competitive baseball. Basketball can even be practiced alone, and skills improved. Not so with baseball, at least not without expensive equipment. The African-American community is also a shrinking part of the US population, having already been surpassed by the Latino population. And of course, once you add the huge number of players from Latin America itself, and now Asia, African-Americans are bound to comprise a smaller share of MLB players. As are Euro-Americans, for that matter.

None of which speaks to the question as to whether Jeff Kent is racist or insensitive, or whatever. But it does point to numerous reasons to question the conclusion that racism is a general phenomenon in MLB and at the root of the representation question.

What made you leave? Have you always posted on this board too, or did you recently substitute this one for the other one? And why aren't you coming back?

I thought I meant something to you...:)

(But seriously, what gives?)

The African-American community is not a shrinking part of the American population, it was 12.3% of the population in 2000 and an estimated 13.3% of the population in 2003. It is the Caucasion American community that is the only part of the American population that is shrinking as a percentage of the total population.

51 I grew up in a city (or town) that borders Vallejo. I'm living in my former hometown right now.

Damon Hollins of Tampa Bay went to Vallejo High, where he played against my school (he was varsity when I was JV). I also played against Jermaine Dye, who grew up in the Bay Area suburbs as well.

Did you only mean major metropolitan cities, or does any American city count?

64.
Nope, this is a substitute board for me. I just got tired of all the Laker board refugees on that board, plus, this one just has so much more and better information on the Dodgers than that board, so I just decided to stop going there.

I never thought of you as a "hardcore, primarily on the board to talk baseball and the Dodgers" kinda guy. I always enjoyed our off-topic discussions, and didn't realize you were looking mostly for Dodger info.

Anyway, fare thee well. You'll be missed (and already have been).

From Ron Kantowski of the Las Vegas Sun:

"This just in: The Los Angeles Dodgers have announced that for the first time, they will not be calling up any players from Triple-A Las Vegas when the major league rosters expand Sept. 1.

That's a joke sports fans -- like the one the Dodgers pulled on the 51s by putting those players here in the first place."

69 Grabowski doesn't even get a call up? Steve will be so bummed.

70 - Frankly, I can't quite believe it, especially because the Jacksonville players will be tied up in playoff games for a while. I'm sure there's an extra bat, arm or runner the injury-plagued Dodgers could use from Las Vegas.

And I'm still looking to see where it was announced.

Kidding aside, I thought Willy Aybar would get a call up, at least.

71 Am I missing something? Doesn't the reporter admit "That's a joke"?

73 - Oh, maybe you're right. I read "that's a joke" as "that's an insult."

First thing that popped up in my mind wrt this Bradley-Kent dustup: Makeup baseball is better than breakup baseball. Perhaps Tracy will (finally) earn his money this year and negotiate a successful detente between these two.

Bradley said a lot yesterday, but the thing I hold onto is: "Jeff Kent is the best option around at second base. So why wouldn't I want to be on a team with Jeff Kent? We don't have to be friends." I hope that is not just happy talk but how he really feels.

All that talk about TV and movies yesterday got me to thinking: wouldn't Bradley be the perfect protagonist in a Spike Lee baseball movie?

It is vague as to what the "joke" is referring to...did the reporter make that up as a joke or is he calling the Dodgers decision a joke?

I wonder if Milton is acquaintances with Barry Bonds at all. This whole "Jeff Kent can't deal with African Americans" really sounds like a reference to the Bonds/Kent situation. I would hope that he's not getting fed misinformation from someone like Bonds.

69 - I don't get that joke at all.

The joke is that The dodgers put a Team in las vegas.

Is he saying that the 51s stink? That the Dodgers are not fielding a quality AAA team?

77 Steve is the owner of the website, firejimtracy.com. He coined the term, Grabowski Principle. I'm not sure if I'm quoting it correctly, but if a pitcher gives up a HR to Grabs, that is a clear indication that the pitcher should be relieved.

68.
Well, I didn't talk primarily about the Dodgers, because being stuck out here in Chicago, I don't have a lot to say, that's why I don't post very much on these comments, but just read them. I talked a lot about off-topic things, because that is where I have more knowledge.
Like I said before keep an eye out for the August 31 Dodger game at Wrigley when I'll be the first person kicked out for verbally abusing their 7-year old daughter at the park.

79-I believe he's saying either that or why would you put a AAA team in 120^F dry heat desert party town.

75

Would it be detente or rapprochement?

I ask this question mainly because of the length of the words.

Bob, answer my question in #66, would you? Thanks pal.

83 Would it be detente or rapprochement?

I'm guessing the best we could hope for at this point would be detente. Which would be sufficient.

I haven't read all the posts today, just the Simers article and the lead LA Times article. So I am sure whatever I might say has already been covered.

Not being black, I cannot understand what Milton is going thru or faces on a daily basis. The race issue is always right out there for all to see all the time.

It has always seemed to me that playing the race card, so to speak, can be an easy way of avoiding dealing with what may be an uncomfortable situation, or not dealing with it. This is not to say that too often race isn't an issue.

I have always been a Bradley defender, loving his spirit and fire. However, I do find these comments from him difficult to take, and believe they would have best been kept in the clubhouse behind closed doors.

Personally, I suspect that if they were riding a successful season, I don't think any of this would have amounted to much. This is a case of two aggressive ambitious athletes frustrated at how the season has unfolded.

83 OED queries reveal:
detente: The easing of strained relations, esp. in a political situation.

rapprochement: A coming or bringing together, an establishment of harmonious relations.

Hmmm, I think detente is more attainable than rapprochement. That said, this is a more personal than political situation, though political issues have been raised.

My favorite phrase from the detente era is "Trust but verify." I find a use for it at least once a week.

Minor Hochevar update up top.

80 - hmm?

Luke Hochevar, meet Matt Harrington. Matt wanted to talk to you about some things, offer up some free advice...

Speaking of unsigned draft picks, has there been any official word on unsigned 9th-rounder Michael Davitt? I found the following:

http://www.al.com/sports/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/sports/1124702305169870.xml&coll=3

From the article:
"The defense was unstoppable," said Davitt, who was drafted in the ninth round of the June draft by the Los Angeles Dodgers, but signed with Okaloosa-Walton Community College.

This is the only news I had heard regarding Davitt. He and Hochevar are the only 2 unsigned draft picks of the first 15 rounds.

Instead of detente or rapprochement I'm afraid it will be mutually assured destruction.

Is there some sort of primer on formatting these comments?

link to a comment by putting it in brackets[#]

bold a comment by putting asterisks around your intended phrase

use www.tinyurl.com to format your big links

Hey, any ESPN Insiders in the group? I'm interested to know what Neyer had to say about Erstad. I would imagine that it's something more interesting than "Erstad stinks," since he did that one the day after the Angels gave him that huge contract...

94
Thanks, db1022

Woo hoo!

I'm a little surpriesd Aybar and Young aren't being considered, plus Ross and Edwards because they're on the 40 man, but are possibly going to be replaced. Rose is the one that really surprises me, he's on the 40 man and a 3rd catcher might be nice.

As for pitchers, without Osoria, no one in Vegas has an ERA under 4.18 (Alfredo Gonzalez), and after that is 5.11 (Pat Mahomes)

Hochevar would be a tough loss, but I'm willing to accept it if he goes back to school

95 - It was actually pretty funny. He went back and forth with an emailer supporting Erstad. In the original email, after the requisite "why all the hate, man?", he said to name another current firstbaseman who's autograph will be worth more in 20 years than Erstad's.

Neyer's list (which didn't need to be longer than one) was highlighted by one Mr. Albert Pujols.

The emailer also said to "just look at the stats, Rob". So Rob did. Guess who won that one?

Would you like me to post the article, or is that unethical?

84
Icaros,
I'm looking for African-Americans who tended to come from major metropolitan areas in the U.S. I would think their upbringing would differ from guys like Bonds and Griffey who probably didn't have to worry about getting equipment or coaching.

Vallejo would be close enough. It's in the seven-county area that defines the San Francisco-Oakland SMSA.

I still don't understand why we don't just pay Hochevar. We knew (or should have had a good idea) of what it'd take to get him when we drafted him. If we weren't willing to pay, we should have drafted somebody else. That's what just about every other team did.

99 how about Darryl Strawberry or Eric Davis

Jeff Francouer got an unintentional walk today.

Mark Prior was the guilty party.

101
I was looking for current players.

You can post about three paragraphs to tease it; don't do any more.

91 There won't be any word for awhile. By attending junior college, we can't sign him now, but we will have a one week period just before the draft to get him, a la Justin Upton. Am I correct?

Anyone heard anything about George McDonald? He's a 16th round pick that we were suppose to sign some point after he finished some series. Last I heard he said he planned on getting a deal done this year

where did Bernie Williams, Gary Sheffield and Derek Jeter grow up?

98 That's OK db. Thanks - I got the gist from your description.

100 - Well, on that theory, since no one wanted to pay Hochevar $5 million, he should have gone through the draft without being picked. And for that matter, Hochevar might as well have asked for $10 million.

Drafting Hochevar was a calculated risk, but it's not like every or even any draftee's highest salary demands get met.

potential stoopid question - why are the runs prior allowed earned? if gameday is correct, there was a single, followed by a fc/error (charged to prior) allowing the batter to reach. so there should have been one out. then there are two strikeouts, which would have been three outs, before any of the runs score.

Bob -- how about Coco Crisp. mlb.com says he went to Inglewood HS.

106
Bernie Williams grew up in Puerto Rico
Gary Sheffield is from Tampa (and on my original list)
Derek Jeter was born in New Jersey and grew up in Kalamazoo, Michigan I believe.

100, 108 - jon's right. it's all about calculated risks. remember when the braves passed on van poppel because they were certain he was going to school? then the a's took a chance and were able to convince him to sign. the braves didn't do too badly, taking larry jones instead.

I am disappointed that Hochevar is holding out. I guess, if you thought there might be a realistic change at a Championship, but even then... I wonder if he has look at what's gone on with the young Dodger pitchers and thought maybe another organization might be better?

I think it is foolish to risk injury in hopes of getting more money. Anyway, as a UT grad, I would have like having a UT boy on the farm.

111 okay, be that way...

108.
There's a difference between not meeting a player's initial asking price, and only going halfway to that asking price as your top offer. Of course your answer about Hochevar going all the way through the draft without being picked is just silly, as the price of the risk goes down dramatically the lower the pick you waste.

113 I agree with 112...Hochevar was a calculated risk, but if things don't work out for him, he will add to the growing list of Boras clients who held out for more money at the possible expense of intangibles.

davitt wil be a draft and follow.

his secondary pitches are very raw and the dodgers want to see how he does at the CC this year before deciding if they want to sign him or not.

on the hoch standoff, luke will be making a huge mistake if he doesnt sign and goes back in next year drafts. thats all there really is too it, he wont sniff the money he is being currently offered.

Coco Crisp. Yeah, that's what I'm looking for.

Well, guys from Inglewood. But not Horacio Ramirez.

115 - it was intentionally silly. Obviously, that wouldn't happen. The fact is, the Dodgers used a 40th pick on a top-5 pitcher - thus lowering their risk and proving your latter point.

But even with Boras clients, I wouldn't assume that the pre-draft contract demand is ironclad, and I don't see why the Dodgers had to be prepared to spend what, if I'm not mistaken, would have been unusual money even for a top-5 pick.

Actually, db, one more question about the Neyer thing. Did he offer a theory as to why Erstad is so overrated, given how badly he stinks? I've wondered lately if the Angels KNOW he stinks, but calculate that they bring in more revenue (tix, merchandise) from ignorant fans who love the guy than they would with more wins if they were to cut him. Especially since they manage to stay in 1st place anyway, and given the decade or so of good will that the WS win grants them.

120 an answer to that could be that the goodwill generated by David Eckstein didn't seem to matter

Did anybody mention Royce Clayton?

120 - Neyer said "because we like him." Then commented on how he DOES play the way we'd play if we could play. With scrap and savvy (not those words) and complete disregard for his own well-being.. He's overrrated because we like him. Neyer doesn't talk about revenue.

Junior Spivey is from Oklahoma City. Not Inglewood, to be sure.

121. Thought about that. But Eckstein, while popular, was never sold as a great player the way Erstad has been. And maybe they couldn't very well dump both at the same time. And they'd have to just dump Erstad, because his contract is too big to trade (or was - it might be running out now).

102

Bob,

Francouer was also intentionally walked last Sunday...Otsuka was the guilty party in that case (you probably mentioned that on Sunday's post but I have not read that).

125. Eck doesn't know the Samba.

Any chance that Choi gets the start against the RHP submarine korean pitcher BY Kim? Kim has been hit pretty hard by lefties so far this year. Perhaps Buntermaker will play the arm angle card. Buntermaker doesn't seem to like to let Choi face Korean pitchers. vr, Xei

123. Thanks. Apropos of the current discussion, I wonder if he'd be so well-liked if he weren't so translucently white. Would a Latin player or African-American player with the same stats and the same attitude get the same love?

i might boycott tonights game if choi doesnt play.

120 - Ok, I'll use my "about 3 paragraphs" ('4' is about '3', right? it's a very long article, and well worth a complete read) limit to post this [my adds in brackets]:

"Why do so many believe that Erstad is a better player than he actually is? For one thing, we like him. We really, really do. He plays hard. He wears that black stuff under his eyes when the sun is shining. He slams into walls and catchers. He plays the way we think we would play -- if only we got the chance.

Of course three someones [Moreno, Stoneman, Scioscia] thought Erstad was worth more than his numbers. So what? How many powerful someones thought Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, and Jaret Wright would make for a crackerjack pitching rotation this season? How many powerful someones thought Jim Thome was worth a long-term contract for a gazillion bucks? Oh, and didn't the same three powerful someones who gave Erstad his shiny contract also think that Steve Finley was the cat's pajamas?

But getting back to your fundamental question, I can only guess that Moreno and Stoneman ponied up for Erstad because they believed 1) that his value does, indeed, extend beyond his performance on the field, and that 2) his performance on the field might again approach its former heights. It's easy to forget now, but at one point Erstad was actually a good hitter. This season marks his ninth as an everyday player (including 2003, most of which he missed because of a hamstring injury). Here are Erstad's Adjusted OPS (OPS+) totals in his first eight seasons (remember, 100 is league average):

[a table with frightening numbers - think if Jason Phillips started at 1B since 2000. Ok now stop screaming.]

So we remember his successes, we forget his failures, we ignore his lack of power, and we pretend the $8.25 million this season couldn't have been better spent elsewhere (not to mention the $7.75 million last season and the $8 million-plus next season).

119.
To me that risk was not calculated very well given how likely they were to sign. Obviously where they seem to be erring is on how low one is willing to go. There is just a huge opportunity cost here. If they weren't willing to go higher, they had to have seen that their chances of signing him weren't higher than 50%. Now to do you take a 50% chance at a top 10 player, or a 90% chance at a top 50 player?

127. I was shocked enough to see Choi start yesterday -- 2nd time in less than a week. Two in a row would be astounding. His 0-3 last night (a hard 0-3, mind you, but 0-3 nonetheless) won't help his case.

128 - Hello Cesar Izturis!

133. Hmm, good point. At least he plays a more important defensive position. And he's a little guy. Erstad is actually pretty big, and wasted at first base. If he were still in CF, I could see some argument for keeping him around, but no defensive first baseman is worth such lousy offense.

134 isn't that what they used to say about Wes Parker?

I guess I see about Hochevar. Still, it's pretty clear, even to me, that Hochevar won't get as much money if he went back to school. Seems like it's in both sides' best interest for Hochevar to sign now rather than wait for next year.

dunno if this has been posted yet, but its a recent chat with scott boras.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/chat/chat.php?chatId=141

Darin Erstad looks like Albert Pujols when you match him up against Steve Finley.

135. Did they, Howard? By the time I awoke to the joys of Dodgerdom, it was already 1974, and Garvey was ensconced.

I don't know Parker's stats, adjusted for league and era. But just because it was said about him that his defensive value didn't make up for any offensive liabilities doesn't make it false. He might very well have been the Erstad of the 1960s. Then again, that was a pitchers' era.

137
Interesting article. Boras seems reasonable here, but then...

He says he puts more weight on the first contract than on contracts to follow because of future risks -- fair enough. But then he says that 100% of his college players go on to become major leaguers. With a success rate like that, wouldn't there to be some way to balance the risk involved in the first contract?

131 - I think that's a good question. Given the Dodger depth in what one might consider top-50 players, I'm not sure the 50-percent shot at the top-10 player wasn't the way to go. But it's certainly debatable.

Let's not forget that what we're seeing right now from Hochevar could still be a ploy. Not saying that it is, just reminding of the possibility.

The current Dodgers against Byung-Hyun Kim

Bradley 2 for 5
Cruz 2 for 4
Izturis 2 for 3
Kent 5 for 18
Ledee 1 for 3
A Perez 0 for 3
Phillips 0 for 2
Repko 1 for 3
Robles 2 for 3
Saenz 2 for 4
Valentin 0 for 2
Weaver 0 for 1
Werth 0 for 4

Surprisingly Choi has never faced Kim. And he has the arm angle in his favor!

140 as an agent, his charge is to minimize the financial risks to his clients in the event the careet doesn't proceed as expected....in other words, to get that they can as soon as they can...

Also keep in mind that if the Dodgers lose Hochevar, that's $2.5 million they get to spend elsewhere - plus do they not get a supplemental draft pick in 2006? Or is that only for true first-rounders?

141. I'm not sure in which direction you meant "ploy," Jon, but my thought was that maybe the kid really wants to go back for his senior year, so he instructed Boras to ask for something impossible - that he either regrets having entered the draft, or just did so to get a sense of his value. Maybe.

so in baseball, if you hire an agent, you don't lose your college eligibility?

143 I agree with your first clause, but I'm not sure that your second necessarily follows.

I'm neither an agent nor a lawyer, but I think that agents have another role: that of career advisor. He might say, "X is in your best short-term interests -- you don't know how things are going to play out in your future -- but under other scenarios, Y might be better. To make your descision, you need to weigh . . ."

I don't think Boras is evil or even misguided for thinking the way he does -- just wondering if he has more than one role with the player.

Given the time period that Parker played in and at Dodger Stadium during its cavernous period, he wasn't all that bad.

He has a career OPS+ of 111.

He had one fluky year in 1970 when be batted .319 and led the NL in doubles with 47. He hit just 10 home runs that season.

Parker remains as the lone alum of Claremont McKenna (Claremont Men's in his day) that made it to the big leagues.

One of Parker's problems about playing was that he didn't like the hours. I read a book once where he talked about how he waited having to wait around all day for a game to start. He felt like he was wasting his time. When he played in Japan, he was given a much fuller practice schedule and the games started earlier.

147
Boras technically isn't an agent for Hochevar because he's entered into no fiduciary agreement. No money has changed hands. Above board.

Boras is just Hochevar's "friend".

146 - Rich Lederer of Baseball Analysts told me in an e-mail that there is a distinction between having an agent and having an advisor. Sounds just perfectly subtle, but I guess that's how some athletes get by.

145 - maybe not the most likely scenario, but entirely possible.

Wes Parker - fellow high school alumni of mine, I think.

149 a relationship such as that would render a college basketball player ineligible, correct?

I think the basketball players go and actually pay the agent to represent them, hence the difference.

And I think Wes Parker graduated from Harvard High in 1958. That's he was billed in a Harvard Westlake Alumni Golf Tournament.

Parker's team won.

Harry Kingman, who is the only Pomona College grad to make it to the majors (Pomona and Claremont McKenna are both part of the same system), also went to Harvard High.

What advantage does Hochevar have going into next years draft? From my understanding its supposed to be loaded with college pitchers, 7 out of the top 9 sophomers rated by BA this year were pitchers. After the top 5 or so you really dont see anyone signing for more than $2.5 million. This year's #5 pick, 3B ryan braun, got $2.45 million, the #6 pick, lhp ricky romero, got $2.4 million. No one after them has gotten $2 million, although pelfrey and maybe maybin could get more but are unsigned. The point is, its unlikely that hochevar would get drafted in the top 5 next year, and thats really his only chance at getting the same or more money than the $2.5 million that the dodgers are offering now.

Jon, you went to high school with Wes Parker?

153. I'm betting Dave Kingman didn't go to Pomona College

You never tire of your Harry Kingman references, Bob. And I never remember them more than five minutes later.

154 - thanks. That's why I find it hard to take the $5 million or even $4 million request seriously. Essentially, Hochevar is asking the Dodgers to pay a 50-percent premium or more to get him a year sooner.

153
Dave is not as civilized and well-bred as Harry was and he went to the school on Figueroa. You know, it's across the street from a Sizzler.

155 - minus the decade-and-a-half difference, yes.

Dave Kingman was my Dad's secretary's husband's college roommate! I am so connected!

next years draft will incredibly college pitcher heavy.

andrew miller UNC
daniel bard UNC
ian kennedy USC
max scherzer UM

some other ones i cant remember. hoch will have a hard time getting in the top 5.

157

Well, I only spent the better part of six months researching the guy's life. And I even went to UC Berkeley to read his collected papers. And touch his handwritten letter from Gandhi that he received.

my guess is Wes Parker is almost old enough to be Jon's dad

Wes Parker is 64.

Make that 65.

...white people never want to see race with anything."

Why is that an OK generalization? I haven't heard that line questioned once in the paper or on the radio or here.

166 - I guess I didn't take it seriously - it seemed so directed at Kent, even though (you're right) it does come across as a false generalization.

163 - You're right. Wes is old enough to be my dad ... but not quite as old as my dad. Did I say decade and a half? Bump that up by another decade.

My personal season at Dodger Stadium:

April 12 Dodgers 9, Giants 8
April 27 Diamondbacks 6, Dodgers 3
May 4 Nationals 5, Dodgers 2
May 21 Angels 3, Dodgers 1
May 30 Cubs 5, Dodgers 3
June 3 Brewers 7, Dodgers 5
June 11 Twins 5, Dodgers 3
July 16 Dodgers 5, Giants 4

Don't worry, Bob, we're counting on a progression to the mean.

167 - I didn't mean you specifically when I said "here." It seemed to me like the focus was on Kent and his supposed racism or insensitivity to blacks when it's absolutely clear that Bradley has no problem dropping generalizations based on race.

Your point makes sense. When so much nonsense comes from someone you start put a little less stock into what they say.

"I didn't mean you specifically when I said 'here.' "

I know.

This is the game chat thread...

166,167...regarding "white people never want to see race with anything." I actually thought that was a rather insightful and revealing comment by Bradley.

The fact is, white people feel a tremendous sense of privilege to move about a place like Los Angeles, even in predominately non-white neighborhoods. Whites might be afraid of crime, but we don't as a rule feel like we "shouldn't" be there or are arousing suspicion just because of our ethnicity. Similarly, if a white person in an office is having trouble with their boss, we analyze it as having to do with differing philosophies, expectations, poor chemistry--whatever--but probably not race, even if that boss is black, Latino or Asian. But a black person who is having trouble with a white boss has no choice but to entertain the possibility that it is due to race.

In the past 50 years, the race issue has evolved from a legal one, i.e. formal, legal barriers to equality, to a primarily psychological one. This is the entire rationale for continued affirmative action. It is assumed that among some whites, including some whites who are in power, there are unconscious or unacknowledged negative racial attitudes that account for disparities in outcome, and that these disparities should be offset by a conscious program to strongly encourage inclusion.

This is a long way of saying that I think Bradley's comment about the general failure of whites to "see race" in situations like this one is defensible. "Never" might be too strong, but "very, very seldom" would be right on. Bradley is also right in saying that whites, generally, don't want to deal with racial issues. They're uncomfortable, and they upset widespread notions that whites are "over" racism. It's a disease on the run, thank God, but it is not over.

Kent might be an equal-opportunity a-hole, but if you're a black guy on the receiving end of it--the only black guy on the team--it is understandable why you might think your race had something to do with it. That's just the reality of our society.

170 A couple of things occur to me: 1) That Howard Fox's earlier comment about how this wouldn't be that big a deal if the team were winning right now contains much truth.

2) The human animal being what it is, individuals will always look for rationalizations about why they just don't get along with other individuals. And in a multiracial, multiethnic society, race and ethnicity are excuses that lie close at hand. I suspect that that's what's going on with Bradley and Kent.

There is some opinion that JD Drew would be better off long-term if he plays cf. Milton Bradley was asked to surrender cf last year for Steve Finley and it certainly appears to be a strong possibility that LA will move Bradley to open cf for Drew in 2006. How much does this play into Bradley's current emotions?

I think most of the "underpaid" ballplayers are "underpaid" because of lack of MLB time rather than any other issue.

1)Interesting in all the Kent vs Milton talk that no one has brought up the Jason Reid fiasco from last year, where Milton again played the race card, but on an African American.

2)Wes Parker was always one of my favorites. Supposedly he was an heir to the Parker pen fortune, which according to John Roseboro's autobiography, led some teammates to question his work ethic.

But he was awesome in '70, and used a pretty heavy bat, if the game used one I have of his is typical.

I think this might be a bigger deal if the Dodgers were winning - in that there would be more at stake, more to lose. I don't really feel like this is a big deal right now, actually. Is this a bigger deal than the Milton Traumas of '04?

I also think it will have very little impact on the Dodgers' ability to win going forward.

Random Dodger game callback

August 24, 1925

On a contentious day at Ebbets Field, Brooklyn and Chicago split a
doubleheader. Brooklyn won the first game, 13-6 and the Cubs took the
second game, 11-6. Brooklyn was now 56-61 and 15 ½ games behind first
place Pittsburgh and in fifth place.

In the opener, Brooklyn was leading 1-0 in the third. Burleigh Grimes
struck out Cubs right fielder Cliff Heathcote, who complained to home
plate umpire Charlie Wilson, who ejected Heathcote. In the bottom of
the inning, Cubs pitcher Percy Jones walked Zack Wheat on a pitch that
Cubs catcher Gabby Hartnett thought was a strike. And Wilson ejected
Hartnett. This sent the entire Cubs bench into a frenzy and in the
end; Wilson ejected everyone on the Cubs bench except player-manager
Rabbit Maranville, a coach, and two other reserves.

So Jones had to finish out the game and Brooklyn scored 9 times
against him in the third and added three more in the eighth. Zack
Wheat and Jack Fournier hit home runs for Brooklyn. The Cubs scored
all their runs in the eighth.

The nightcap was a little more peaceful. Joe Bush pitched for the Cubs
and went the distance, giving up six runs, including Wheat's second
home run of the day. Meanwhile the Cubs bashed out 15 hits against
Rube Erhardt, Joe Oeschger, Bill Hubbell and Guy Cantrell.

Brooklyn finished 68-85 and tied with Philadelphia for sixth place, 27
games behind the first place Pirates. The Cubs finished a half game
behind Brooklyn and Philadelphia in last place. Brooklyn lost 17 of
its last 19 games.

Wheat finished third in the NL in batting average at .359 and third in
doubles with 42. Fournier was third in the NL in homers with 22 and
second in OBP at .446 with a league-leading 86 walks. Rogers Hornsby
led the NL in batting at .403 as part of a Triple Crown winning season
as he hit 39 home runs and drove in 143.

Grimes got a win on August 24, but 1925 was one of the worst seasons
in his long career. He was 12-19 with a 5.04 ERA. Dazzy Vance kept
Brooklyn out of the cellar with a stellar 22-9 record and a 3.53 ERA
and he led the league in strikeouts with 221.

Chicago's manager on this day, Maranville, would end up playing for
the Dodgers in 1926. The Cubs would use three managers in 1925,
Maranville being the second one in between the tenures of Bill
Killefer and George Gibson.

The Dodgers went through a procession of owners in 1925. Charles
Ebbets passed away on April 18 from heart failure. Co-owner Edward
McKeever caught a cold at Ebbets's funeral, which turned into
pneumonia and killed him. McKeever's brother, Steve, took over the
team and gave manager Wilbert Robinson the title of president. This
setup would not serve the Dodgers well in the coming years. It would
take a couple of decades before the Dodgers had any financial
stability.

Thanks to the Chicago Tribune, BaseballReference.com. Dodgers.com and Retrosheet

Jon - I always enjoy your headlines but don't get this one, at least the "...Manual Kent" part... can you explain it to me so I can go "Oh, I can't believe I didn't get it."

Fred Worth, using Lee Sinins' Sabermetric Encyclopedia has told me that Oscar Robles is not yet the leader in most CS without a SB.

The alltime leader is Pete Runnels who was 0 for 10 in 1952.

Old friend Jose Offerman was 0 for 8 in 2000.

Eight others have had 0 for 7 years in steals, most recently Chet Lemon in 1983.

Bradley is great to call out Jeff Kent. Kent and Bonds were more alike than they ever thought, it looks like.

Though I grew up in Ventura, I've lived in the south, Texas and Kentucky, I totally agree with Bradley's comments about redneck jokes and attitudes - the mental thought process is 40 years behind the times it seems, with some folks, just as described by Simers' article.

179 - I'm guessing a play on words from the Usual Suspect's lead "Verbal Kint"

at least that's what I thought of when I read it...

181 - When did you live in Ventura?

The headline refers to two famous writers from centuries past.

I used to think "Paradise Lost" and "Lost Horizons" were the same book.

185 - Yeah, I didn't think mine made sense.

I wonder if Edward McKeever studied William Henry Harrison growing up. Got to wear a coat to those big outdoor gatherings.

I will also add that I've never read "Paradise Lost" or "Lost Horizons", but I've seen the movie of the latter. The original one, not the 1970s one.

I left out that another one of the owners after the death of Ebbets and Edward McKeever was the Brooklyn Trust Company.

That was a company that employed a lawyer named Walter O'Malley.

185 Ah, a couple of Dead White European Males. No wonder no one got it. They don't teach Kant or Milton in colleges anymore. ;]

AM 570 is reporting that Milton is meeting with McCourt right now and an announcement will be made before the game tonight.

It looks like Milton's injury is not serious enough to keep him out so there might be some disciplinary action coming up.

What could you discipline Milton Bradley for? Being unhappy? Saying things that people disagree with? I'd love to see the MLBPA react to Bradley being fined for being outspoken.

Odalis Perez got called into McCourt's office too. It was probably just a chance for everybody to get all their complaints out on the table.

I see the hand of Sitrick and Co. in this meeting between McCourt and Bradley. Unless there are facts not known, I very much doubt that disciplinary action will be the result, as that would cause an avalanche of terrible publicity. More likely, there will be some attempt by McCourt to demonstrate that he is taking action to fix the interpersonal problems that have beset the Dodgers.

My worst case guess is that Bradley has asked to be DFA'd or traded so he can play elsewhere, and McCourt will announce he has acceded to this request. My best case guess is that McCourt is creating a diversity committee and Bradley will be a member of it.

Bradley is part of a whole bunch of Dodger promos. Kent is hardly in any.

I'm thinking Milton is sticking around and might be forced to make some public sign of reconciliation with Kent.

McCourt, DePo and Tracy have all invested much in Bradley...I doubt they would do anything to get rid of him right now.

Bradley will ask to be traded if Tracy is fired. But I doubt he would ask over this.

181-Kent grew up in Huntington Beach and went to Berkely, he only recently moved to texas, How in the world is he a redneck? I bet the man has more sophistication in his pinky finger than Bradley has in his huge heart.

So long, I'll be at the game tonight.

I'll try to say something arcane to the other people in my section. Maybe Robles will be CS and I can invoke the name of Offerman!

If you see odalis call him a Peanut for me :)

Does anyone suppose Jeff Kent met many fellow motocross fans while at Berkely?

199-Do you suppose he met motocross fans while growing up in HB? Yeh probably.

Choi gets his second straight start, and Bradley and Izturis out of the lineup again.
Early Lineups...

SS Robles
1B Choi
LF Ledee
2B Kent
3B Saenz
CF Werth
C Navarro
RF Cruz, Jr.
P Houlton

I'd rather see Repko in left than Ledee( due to his hammy problem) but besides that the line-up looks alright.

After watching Werth at CF last night, Cruz should play CF instead.

197
Q: How can you tell when Bob Timmerman is saying something arcane?

A: His lips are moving.

I'm not willing to take MB's word for it that Kent was telling racist jokes. He hasn't repeated any of the jokes, he hasn't even made any specific charge of racism. At this point, his only accusation of a racial nature against Kent is that of racial insensitivity (one he generously extended to all white people). Until he does make an accusation of racism, and supports it with specific evidence, I don't think assuming Kent to be a racist is at all fair, or in any way founded.

200 Housing for students in Berkeley is impossible, so a lot of them now commute in from places like Walnut Creek. Except for the climate, Walnut Creek might as well be in Oklahoma.

Are you kidding me? Walnut Creek is yuppie central these days.

205 I'm sure Kent was not telling racial jokes. Bradley did not call him a "racist." What Bradley is saying is much more subtle than that. He's saying that, as a black man, as one of the only black men on the team, Bradley experiences the repeated negative commentary from Kent as having a racial dimension--irrespective of what Kent means in his heart of hearts. All Bradley is asking is for this simple fact to be recognized and given some consideration by the team, the fans, the media and Kent himself.

If Bradley is suspended, I have a feeling the trade demand comes soon after. What a mess.

201 Love that lineup.

208 That is my interpretation as well. It's unfortunate the Bradley didn't put it so elequently, but I'm willing to extend him at least that much benefit of the doubt. And I hope he begins to feel secure enough in his role with the team that he stops feeling sensitive about Kent's attitude, because I really want Bradley around for a while, and Kent around for another year.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I'm off! Fifteen rows behind home plate! I may never have seats this good again! And yes, I plan on calling everyone and my mother on the cell phone if I'm on TV. I think I'm sitting just a shade too far back so you'll all be spared.

Predictions on who gets booed and cheered? Julian thinks Bradley gets booed tonight. I'm inclined to agree though I as I said a few miles upthread, I'll be cheering both players.

201 Check my last post as I just saw the lineup. Choi starting! I might just faint from shock!

208- I think you're right in general, but in particular Bradley threw out this:

"There are things he said off the cuff that I don't interpret as funny," he said. "I think it may be funny to him and maybe Jeff Foxworthy, but it's not funny to Milton Bradley."

I've been listening to too much talk-radio I guess, where the charge is that Kent is a flat-out racist. I read through the comments, but the talk-radio tone is still buzzing in my ear. I need a pallate cleansing cigarette.

Did anybody know that Jeff Foxworthy has sold more albums than any other comic, ever? More than Richard Pryor. Mostly because he's Walmart friendly. Crazy.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2117112/

Should Tracy bear any responsibility for this feud being played out through media and public.

This is yet another case of media misreporting. The headline of the AP story did not match the actual reported facts. The media really hates Milton Bradley and the LA media really hates the Dodgers and Paul DePodesta.

This whole thing is overblown.

Bottom line, Milton is a little bit of a headcase, and Kent is kind of a jerk. Milton is also very intelligent and misunderstood.

I was listening to the radio and David Vascey (sp?) said that Bradley had two meetings with ownership today. He also said that bradley isn't in the stadium today as he was asked to leave after his second meeting. This really sucks. This whole season has sucked. I don't think that bradley has done anything to warrant being suspended. I'm scared now. I really expected Milton to be part of the future of this team. I hope that isn't in jeopardy because of this whole situation.

More scandal to report. The batboy who tried to drink the gallon of milk and win Brad Penny's $500 has been suspended for six games by the Florida Marlins.

http://tinyurl.com/79po9

Too ridiculous...

O.K. I just heard one of the updates on 570am and they said Milton will have season ending knee surgery. Damn, this season just keeps getting worse.

218 Cool. Now my favorite player, Jason Repko, will get the chance to play more and win himself a starting job for 2006!

Well, maybe Drew will be back soon.

I, for welcome, our new starting outfielder.

Sarcasm aside, I think the super-platoon of Valentine/Ledee/Repko/Perez??? will be our Bradley replacements.

Who knows, perhaps Jason Phillips has some outfielder in him too.

206-
I am from Walnut Creek and still live her except when I am in Santa Barbara during the school year and Walnut Creek is yuppie central.

There are plenty of yuppies in Oklahoma, too. No state is safe from the yuppie menace, really.

Is there an official announcement from the Dodgers on Bradley's status yet?

I'm not buying he's out for the season until I see it officially, since I've also read on the dodger board that he was suspended for tonight's game (per A Martinez on pregame show).

No mention on SCSR just now...

Well, I for one hope Penny sends that kid $500 plus his lost wages. Didn't follow the link and don't know the whole story, but that sure sounds pretty ridiculous.

221 to complete the Simpsons reference...

I, for one, welcome our new scappy overlords.

Vinny just said Bradley is out for the season with knee injury. 80% tear of mid-patella.

Bradley going for 2nd opinion to confirm the need for surgery.

I hope kent is happy now.

228 the hits just keep on comin'

Seriously, I've never seen anything like this in professional sports before. The only instance of this many injuries I've ever on a single team was my senior year of high school cross country, when we went through seven guys to fill the #5 spot, with injuries including getting hit by a train.

who will replace Bradley on the roster? I wouldn't mind seeing John Weber get the shot.

Now I REALLY wish that AP could play a little outfield.

231 - tell it to the Giants. With Bonds' DL time and everything lost by Grissom (not to mention his inevitable old-age decline), their VORP loss has to be simply staggering.

I heard Vinnie say 80% patellar tendon tear, and I looked at my knee, because I have one heckuva nice scar from my experience with that.

http://www.linkmeister.com/blog/archives/000082.html

I w