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$12,300,000 Hiroki Kuroda
$10,000,000 Derek Lowe
$9,500,000 Brad Penny
$7,000,000 Esteban Loaiza
*$500,000 Chad Billingsley
Total: $39,300,000

Bullpen (6)
$2,000,000 Takashi Saito
$1,925,000 Joe Beimel
$1,125,000 Scott Proctor
*$500,000 Jonathan Broxton
$500,000 Chan Ho Park
*$400,000 Hong-Chih Kuo
Total: $6,450,000

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$14,100,000 Andruw Jones
$13,000,000 Rafael Furcal
$9,000,000 Jeff Kent
$8,500,000 Nomar Garciaparra
$8,000,000 Juan Pierre
$500,000 Russell Martin
*$400,000 James Loney
*$400,000 Matt Kemp
Total: $53,900,000

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$875,000 Gary Bennett
$600,000 Mark Sweeney
$424,500 Andre Ethier
$391,000 Delwyn Young
$390,000 Chin-Lung Hu
$390,000 Blake DeWitt
Total: $3,071,000

Disabled List
$12,000,000 Jason Schmidt
*$400,000 Tony Abreu
*$390,000 Andy LaRoche
Total: $12,790,000

Also Paying ...
$1,000,000 Brett Tomko
$750,000 Odalis Perez
$540,000 Yhency Brazoban
$500,000 Randy Wolf
$487,500 Jason Repko
$135,225 Rudy Seanez
$100,000 Mike Lieberthal
$50,000 Ramon Martinez
Total: $3,562,725

Working total: *$113,268,725

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Today's Bright Spot: Dioner Navarro
2005-08-26 09:48
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

* * *

A .393 on-base percentage? It continues to be a promising start.

The 21 steals allowed in 22 games, we'll wait and see about.

Advertisement
Comments (336)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-08-26 09:58:19
1.   Bob Timmermann
Hmm, the page is all funny because the lines are so short. Go figure.

I'll probably be leaving early today and will miss tonight's game so stay tuned to this thread for today's RDGC!

2005-08-26 09:58:47
2.   Bob Timmermann
tessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssst
2005-08-26 10:07:51
3.   Jon Weisman
Yeah, that is weird. I'm not sure why that's happening.
2005-08-26 10:08:19
4.   Kayaker7
He threw out a runner the other night, but the tag was off. But still, not a great percentage.
2005-08-26 10:09:16
5.   Bob Timmermann
I need to write some non-Plaschkean paragraphs. Perhaps longer line lengths will force this frame over to the side.
2005-08-26 10:10:15
6.   Nick from Washington Heights
My beloved Yanks gave up a lot in that Big Unit trade. It's tough to read about Navarro given Posada's difficulties this year.
2005-08-26 10:11:46
7.   Warren
Dunno where to find them but I'd be interested to see the stats on how many people stole off Lowe, Penny, Weaver, Perez, and Houlton prior to them pitching for the Dodgers. Obviously some of this is due to the pitchers not holding runners and having slow deliveries. But to quantify that would be interesting to see.
2005-08-26 10:14:05
8.   rageon
I've been in the "Navarro is overrated" camp long before he came to the Dodgers, as I'm not sure he will ever hit for enough power to be useful. That said, with Martin in the minors, Navarro could make a very nice backup catcher.
2005-08-26 10:17:17
9.   SMY
A lot is made of baserunners knowing when to steal on certain pitchers and catchers as it relates to timing, etc. I wonder if the same is true of catchers. Navarro had a good defensive reputation in the minors, did he not? It may be a function of inexperience. I should look into other catchers' CS% early in their careers.
2005-08-26 10:30:57
10.   db1022
8 - Unfortunately, if you feel that Navarro is overrated due to a lack of power, then I'm not sure how satisfied you'll be with Martin.

Best case is he'll be in the .400 OBP range, minimal power and good defense. Kinda sounds like what what we're getting from Navarro.

2005-08-26 10:32:42
11.   Xeifrank
Bob jinxed us on wednesday, have we found out who jinxed us last night? And who is going to jinx us tonight? vr, Xei
2005-08-26 10:35:37
12.   Jon Weisman
Paul Lo Duca's career OBP is .343 and slugging is .420, and his stolen base record is not Phillipsian, but not very good either. Right now, I'm hopeful that Navarro can match that performance in the near future, if not the immediate future.
2005-08-26 10:35:38
13.   Bob Timmermann
11
I'm suspecting that Derek Lowe will be the jinx.
2005-08-26 10:37:50
14.   Bob Timmermann
From the Arizona Republic:
Little relief
With the Diamondbacks taking a 6.24 ERA into Thursday night, here are the five worst bullpens since 1960, according to David W. Smith of Retrosheet:

1. Detroit Tigers 1996 5.97
2. Seattle Mariners 1999 5.94
3. Kansas City Royals 1999 5.77
4. Colorado Rockies 1999 5.72
5. Philadelphia Phillies 2000 5.72

The same story says the alltime worst bullpen record is 6.62 by the 1950 Browns.

2005-08-26 11:09:58
15.   rageon
12 Well, LoDuca is also vastly overrated. Primarily due to having Reverse Albert Belle Disease. No, not the attitude part, but the 1st half / 2nd half splits. Guys who start hot and finish weak are often perceived as better hitters because of the inflated stat lines to start the year as opposed to guys who start slowly and gradually get better as the year goes on.

10 If Navarro keeps his OBP at .390, rather than .350, which is where I expect it to be, I'll stop mentioning his lack of power. Martin, on the other hand, is someone who I actually think might be able to maintain a near .400 OBP.

2005-08-26 12:02:25
16.   Robert Fiore
I've been collecting Dodger media guides in a casual way, and I was wondering if anyone here knows how far back they go. The earliest one I've seen on sale is 1965, and I imagine the team was issuing them before that. The earliest one I have (1973) was a modest affair compared to the modern day behemoths (about 60 pages as opposed to what, 200-300?), and I assume the ones from the 60s were even smaller than that.
2005-08-26 12:03:54
17.   Steelyeri
If Navarro becomes a .280/.390/.420 type hitter, that would be great. I don't think that expecting a .390 OBP or better is out of the question, he has a good eye from what i've seen.I am very impressed by his defense as well. I love the way he blocks the plate. Twice he has had perfect location with his foot and the runner was never able to touch the plate. It also looks like the pitchers are impressed with his poise and the way he calls the game. Overall, I agree with jon, promising start.
2005-08-26 12:08:51
18.   Bob Timmermann
16
Robert,
I imagine that the Amateur Athletic Foundation of Los Angeles Library has every L.A. Dodger media guide dating back to 1958.

You can call them at (323) 730-4646 or email them at library@aafla.org

They have a great staff and really know their stuff.

2005-08-26 12:09:45
19.   Jon Weisman
15 - I think LoDuca has been overrated in the zeitgeist but he's still a top-tier catcher and an asset to a lineup at that position. At a six-figure salary, who would complain about that kind of production?

This has nothing to do with what Martin might do - this is just about Navarro.

2005-08-26 12:29:26
20.   Telemachos
For a rookie, I think Navarro has generally shown remarkable poise. Given the epidemic of stolen bases against the Dodgers this year, while he has to share the blame, the bulk should go (IMHO) to the pitchers. I'm not sure how much can be addressed in mid-season, but I would hope that they are working (or will work on) faster deliveries, slide-steps, paying more attention to runners on base, etc.
2005-08-26 12:38:25
21.   oldbear
Navarro walks a ton and has gap power. He isnt going to hit HR's, but he's got a nice stroke at the plate.

And isnt OBP worth 3x what SLG is? If you have a guy that OBP's 400, he needs to be batting 2nd or 1st.

2005-08-26 12:55:32
22.   Jon Weisman
Just for the heck of it (assuming Bradley isn't back in 2006, and before the prospects come in) ...

1. R Perez (SS or 3B)
2. L Drew (CF)
3. R Kent (2B)
4. L Matsui (LF)
5. S Navarro (C)
6. L Choi (1B)
7. R/L Werth/Ledee (RF)
8. L/S Robles/Izturis (3B or SS)
9. (P)

2005-08-26 12:57:28
23.   Bob Timmermann
It's a little early today, but here you go...

Random Dodger game callback

August 26, 1981

Two teams with much different agendas and attitudes squared off before a crowd of a little over 11,000 at the Three Rivers Stadium. And it was the playoff-bound Los Angeles Dodgers who crushed the Pittsburgh Pirates 16-6, thanks to a seven-run second inning and a six-run sixth inning. The Dodgers were now 10-6 in the second half of the strike-interrupted season, but they already had the first half title in the bag. The Dodgers trailed Atlanta by a half game. Overall the Dodgers were 46-27, 3 games better than Cincinnati.

The game matched up two pitchers who were traded for each other. The Dodgers started Jerry Reuss and the Pirates started Rick Rhoden. And Reuss stumbled in the first inning, giving up three runs on an RBI double by Bill Madlock and a 2-run single by Dale Berra.

But the Dodgers started to hit their former teammate in the second. Ron Cey led off with a single and Pedro Guerrero singled him to second. Mike Scioscia doubled to right to score Cey. Bill Russell and Reuss made outs, but Steve Sax, filling in for the injured Davey Lopes, singled to score Guerrero. Then Rhoden balked home Scioscia and sent Sax to second. Then Rhoden walked Derrel Thomas and Rick Monday to load the bases. Steve Garvey then cleared the bases with a double. Cey singled home Garvey for the seventh run of the inning.

Reuss gave back two runs in the third when he gave up back-to-back home runs to Berra and Bill Robinson. After five innings, manager Tommy Lasorda decided to pull Reuss.

In the sixth, Jay Johnstone pinch hit for Reuss and doubled, but was erased at third when he tried to move up on a Steve Sax grounder. Thomas lined out and Rhoden was almost out of the inning. But he walked Monday. Then Garvey singled home Sax. And Cey followed with a single to score Monday. Finally, after 126 pitches, Pirates manager Chuck Tanner pulled Rhoden in favor of Don Robinson. But it got worse, Guerrero walked. Then Scioscia doubled to drive in two runs. Russell then tripled in two more to make it 13-5. Rhoden was charged with 11 of the runs.

Alejandro Pena and Steve Howe pitched the final four innings to finish out the win. The only blemish was a home run by Jason Thompson off of Pena. The World Series champions of just two years ago, fell to last place in the NL East at 6-11 and were 31-34 overall.

Dodger fans will remember 1981 for the birth of Fernandomania. With Reuss unable to pitch on Opening Day, Valenzuela got the start and pitched a complete game 5-hit shutout against the Astros. Valenzuela would throw five shutouts among his first seven starts. He also won his first 8 starts, until the Phillies beat him on May 18. Valenzuela would finish the abbreviated season with a 13-7 record, a 2.48 ERA, a league-high 180 strikeouts and 8 shutouts. Valenzuela would win both the Cy Young Award and the Rookie of the Year. And the fans at Dodger Stadium turned out in droves.
With the first half playoff spot in the bag, Lasorda, although he did not admit it in the media, rested many of his regulars. The Dodgers finished the second half 27-26 and six games behind second half winner Houston. Overall the Dodgers were 63-47, which was four games worse than Cincinnati, who, as a reward for having the best record in the majors, stayed home for the postseason.

The 1981 postseason was one of the most exciting in team history. The Dodgers lost two close games in the Division Series in Houston with Dave Stewart losing both games. The Dodgers lost the opener 3-1 on a walkoff homer by Alan Ashby and then won the second game 1-0 in 11 innings.

When the Division Series returned to Los Angeles, a different Dodgers team showed up. In Game 3, the Dodgers won 6-1 behind a strong pitching performance from Burt Hooton. In Game 4, a Pedro Guerrero homer and a Bill Russell RBI single were enough for Valenzuela to edge past Vern Ruhle, 2-1. And in Game 5, the Dodgers comeback was complete as Reuss threw a shutout and the Dodgers beat Nolan Ryan, 4-0.

The NLCS brought on the Montreal Expos. The series opened in L.A. In Game 1, Cey, returning from an arm injury, went 2 for 4, to power the Dodgers to a 5-1 win. But in Game 2, journeyman Ray Burris shut out the Dodgers, 3-0 as the Expos handled Valenzuela.

The scene changed to Montreal. In Game 3, Reuss gave up a 3-run homer to Jerry White and the Expos won 4-1. Facing elimination in Game 4, the Dodgers scored twice in the 8th and four times in the 9th to win 7-1. And Game 5 was a classic, with Monday homering in the 9th off of Steve Rogers, and Bob Welch coming in to relieve for Valenzuela in the 9th to send the Dodgers to the World Series. Monday's celebratory run around the bases would also mark the last time he would ever tell Dodgers fans in a clear manner what was happening in a baseball game.

With no rest before the World Series started, the Dodgers lost the first two games to the Yankees in New York. But the Dodgers came back to win three straight in Los Angeles. Valenzuela won a shaky Game 3, 5-4. In Game 4, the Dodgers survived a rough start by Welch to come from behind to beat the Yankees 8-7. In Game 5, Guerrero and Yeager hit back-to-back homers in the seventh for a 2-1 win.

And after a day of rain, the series resumed in New York. In the fourth inning, with the game tied 1-1, Yankees manager Bob Lemon opted to pinch-hit for starter Tommy John. The Dodgers scored three times in the fifth against reliever George Frazier, to hand him his third loss of the series and the Dodgers their first championship since 1965.

1981 was a bittersweet championship. The players strike left a bitter taste for many fans. But there was also the highlight of seeing Fernando Valenzuela baffle the National League. But also it was the last year of the Garvey-Lopes-Russell-Cey infield. Lopes was limited to 58 games and in the off-season he was traded to Oakland. A new of generation of heroes would be needed. In many ways, they've never arrived.

Thanks to the Los Angeles Times, BaseballReference.com and Retrosheet

2005-08-26 13:01:42
24.   King of the Hobos
11 Pettitte vs Lowe, we need to be jinxed? Maybe we can somehow jinx the Astros, anyone here actually an Astros fan in disguise?

As for Navarro, it's extremely nice to see him do so well. As for throwing out runners, it seemed he had a mechanical flaw at first, sending the ball to RF. He's done better lately, in my opinion. The pitchers still aren't helping, and there's cases like yesterday when Robles just didn't tag the runner despite a good throw

2005-08-26 13:06:32
25.   Brendan
Ahh, 1981. Thanks, Bob. after the heartbreaks of 77-78, 81 was the best. I was 12 at the time. Good times.
2005-08-26 13:13:48
26.   still bevens
In light of all this recent upheaval, is anyone expecting any trades in the next 5 days?
2005-08-26 13:18:02
27.   Brendan
26

I've read that SF has been very aggressive in claiming players off the waiver wire in order to block trades to the Padres, AZ and LA so I don't think we will see much happen with SF thinking they are still in this title chase.

2005-08-26 13:24:26
28.   fanerman
Maybe we should sign Nomar to play 3B. He's playing 3B today for the Cubs.
2005-08-26 13:24:47
29.   Icaros
22 Jon, I'm torn between Giles and Matsui as fantasy new outfielder.

Care to explain why you chose Godzilla?

2005-08-26 13:28:09
30.   still bevens
No Damon?
2005-08-26 13:34:33
31.   Icaros
30 I want someone with power than Damon. Giles has more power (especially if you get him out of San Diego) and a .412 career OBP.

Plus, I'd rather get a RF so Drew can get his wish and move to center.

I think Damon will be really overpriced and will probably stay in Boston since he has become Jesus over there.

2005-08-26 13:34:44
32.   GoBears
27 SF doesn't need to believe it's in the race to behave this way. I would think that a close 2nd-best outcome for Giants fans would be for Sabean to do what he can to make sure the Dodgers don't win the division. In that case, I guess he'd only be blocking trades to LA, but he wouldn't necessarily know - the hoped-for trade destination of waived players isn't necessarily public knowledge. He might just block anyone he thinks would help the Dodgers.

Of course, given Sabean's notions of quality, he'd only be blocking old, expe

2005-08-26 13:38:21
33.   Jon Weisman
29, 30, 31 - I gave the outside acquisition much less thought than you imagine. I was just trying to see what one outside player would do to the lineup, once healthy.
2005-08-26 13:43:11
34.   GoBears
Since we're dreaming (I can't believe George will let Matsui go, given his quality and the lack of options, esp. if they want to part ways with Sheffield), I'd take Matsui over Giles. Mostly because he's younger (31). Giles (34) has had a resurgence this year after a down year, but he's due for the career-ending slide. I wouldn't want him for more than a year or two at the most. Giles is of course much better away from PETCO, but the major difference is doubles (23 away, 10 home), which DS suppresses, so I'm not sure he'd be better as a Dodger than as a Padre.

I've also heard that Giles is interested in Atlanta, to play with his brother (and for a better team), tho I can't imagine why Atlanta would prefer him over one of their young studs OFers. And he's too short to play 1b.

2005-08-26 13:49:31
35.   Icaros
34 That's weird that he only has 10 doubles at Petco. Seems like that place would be pretty conducive to them, what with the cavernous outfield.

But Dave Roberts only has 5 doubles at home compared to 11 on the road, so it seems that there must be something to it.

What's with that place?

2005-08-26 13:57:25
36.   Howard Fox
35 I think, now I could be wrong, but they call it a pitchers' park
2005-08-26 13:57:40
37.   Jon Weisman
Aside: against lefties this year, Navarro is 2 for 5 with 7 walks. They are so afraid of him!
2005-08-26 14:01:11
38.   rageon
30 & 31 - I have a feeling that 5 years from now, people will be talking about how the Johnny Damon signing of 2005-06 offseason was one of the worst contracts handed out over the past few years. I think if you had to make a list of 10 things to remember for free agent signings, it would be to avoid giving long contracts to old players who rely on their speed.
2005-08-26 14:03:34
39.   DaveP
What percentage of base runners did Navarro throw out in Vegas this year? I had that stat previously, but now can't find it on the LV51's site.

Martin has thrown out .282 for Jacksonville.

Billingsley doesn't seem to hold runners, given that Suns catchers are at .158 when he's on the mound. Guess that means Bills is ready for the big club :)

2005-08-26 14:08:07
40.   was it tims mitt i saw
Jon, you'd take choi out of the number 2 slot?

Bob, always love your posts

2005-08-26 14:10:56
41.   the OZ
I like Matsui, too. I can't imagine that he'd want to stay with the Yankees, especially if they miss the playoffs.

If this season wasn't such a train wreck, I'd think that LA would be a pretty desirable option for him.

2005-08-26 14:18:22
42.   Jon Weisman
40 Well, I like to alternate left-right, so that you don't get caught against a LOOGY late in the game, and I couldn't see dropping Drew lower. I'm not convinced that Choi's ultimate success depends on him batting second.
2005-08-26 14:21:19
43.   Howard Fox
Actually, Choi's ultimate success may depend on who the manager is...
2005-08-26 14:29:30
44.   fanerman
43 - Have to agree with that.

Speaking of Choi, why has he been playing so often lately? I wish he had some success, though. I get the feeling he just needs to be comfortable doing ONE thing. He struggled forever as a pinch-hitter, then we kept him there and he started to have success. If we can keep him at 1B enough for him to not worry about if his playing time is on the line, maybe he'll be better. Of course, I have no idea what he's thinking so that may be totally off.

2005-08-26 14:34:59
45.   still bevens
44

I'm starting to think Tracy himself is moving into 'acceptance' territory, thus all the Choi starts.

However, I don't really understand why Phillips hasnt played in almost a whole week!

2005-08-26 14:36:33
46.   db1022
22 - Navarro in the 5-spot seems a bit of a stretch, especially with Choi and Werth/Ledee behind him. Is it the switch-hitter in him?

What about Jose Cruz? Anyone thinking he'll be in Blue next year?

2005-08-26 14:37:17
47.   Jon Weisman
44 - "I wish he had some success, though."

Choi is OPSing 1.010 in the past week, .925 in August, .911 since the All-Star Break, .808 overall.

Wish granted.

2005-08-26 14:38:11
48.   Howard Fox
45 because Tracy falls into and out of love with players, and that is how he prepares his lineups

he may talk about matchups and stats and such, but it is simply who is in favor at the moment

2005-08-26 14:38:12
49.   db1022
Has Tracy commented much on the Kent/Bradley thing?

Seems like most of the bites have been coming from Depo and McCourt, but it should be in Tracy's domain.

2005-08-26 14:38:49
50.   DaveP
44, 47 - I was going to comment on the same thing. Even if you only look at the last few games when he got a few starts in a row:

last 6 days (15 at bats): .333 avg, .476 obp, .533 slg and 2 RBI

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-08-26 14:39:08
51.   Howard Fox
47 yes, but how is he in the chemistry department?
2005-08-26 14:39:59
52.   still bevens
46

I doubt Cruz will be back. However, with the Bradley injury, this pick up by DePo seems to be somewhat less insane in hindsight.

2005-08-26 14:40:16
53.   Howard Fox
49 I am not a Tracy supporter, far from it...but the way he has handled things so far earns my respect
2005-08-26 14:40:27
54.   GoBears
This from CBS Sportsline's Rumor Mill:

SS Rafael Furcal's brilliant performance since late June has increased the likelihood that he'll be deemed unaffordable by Braves officials this winter when he's eligible for free agency, says the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.

So if the Braves need a new SS, they have PLENTY we could use in return for Izzy.

2005-08-26 14:43:01
55.   GoBears
52 Given that Cruz jr cost us basically nothing, except some starts by Repko (bonus!), at no point did I think it an insane move. Far from it. DePo gave Tracy a better spare part than he had, and little to no cost.
2005-08-26 14:44:00
56.   GoBears
Uh, that should be "AT little to no cost"
2005-08-26 14:44:30
57.   Howard Fox
Cruz got a change in scenery, he is playing regularly...we expect nothing from him because of his performance so far this year...who knows, he may surprise us all...he has definitely done well in the past
2005-08-26 14:46:31
58.   still bevens
He just needs to start producing at home and I'll lay off of him for a bit..
2005-08-26 14:46:51
59.   Howard Fox
58 that is between him and his wife
2005-08-26 14:47:45
60.   still bevens
(rimshot)
2005-08-26 14:48:56
61.   db1022
55 - I liked him, and when AZ cut him loose I thought it would be a good pickup. I wasn't quite sure how the AZ to LA relationship would work (though why wouldn't AZ want Cruz on the Dodgers if they were releasing him).

I was pleasantly surprised to see him come around to us. If Ledee or Werth is moved this offseason (and Milton stays) I'd like to see him stay on moreso than a Repko/Grabs/Edwards.

2005-08-26 14:49:42
62.   Howard Fox
22 by the way, I like Navarro batting 5th, he seems to be a contact hitter with a good eye...

personally I like a lot of hitters in my lineup who make contact, who get on base, and who can keep a rally going...home runs are a bonus, but making contact definitely increases your chances of getting a hit

2005-08-26 14:52:51
63.   Howard Fox
I, for one, like Repko. He hustles all the time. When he played regularly for a time, he started hitting. I wouldn't mind Repko in my everyday lineup if I had two veterans around him, maybe Drew and Matsui or whomever (assuming Bradley is gone)
2005-08-26 14:53:51
64.   Telemachos
If the Dodgers keep Bradley for next year, what about picking up a veteran African-American player during the off-season (assuming any are available and fit Depo's criteria and team needs)... seems that if Bradley had someone who could mentor him in a leadership role -- particularly if they shared a common heritage/background, that it might really help.
2005-08-26 14:56:02
65.   Linkmeister
23 "Monday's celebratory run around the bases would also mark the last time he would ever tell Dodgers fans in a clear manner what was happening in a baseball game."

Good thing I'm drinking water at the keyboard.

2005-08-26 15:00:34
66.   Jon Weisman
65 - Yeah, that was a good line.
2005-08-26 15:00:49
67.   King of the Hobos
64 Jacque Jones might be an improvement in LF, but there are other more desirable options. Although he has had for more plate discipline this year. The African American FA market is just about as weak as the normal FA market
2005-08-26 15:03:05
68.   Howard Fox
67 The African American FA market is just about as weak as the normal FA market

Milton Bradley would love this comment

2005-08-26 15:03:41
69.   GoBears
63 I wouldn't mind Repko in my everyday lineup if I had two veterans around him

Boy, I sure would. I think that Repko's absolute ceiling is as a non-embarrassing 4th or 5th OFer. Nothing against the guy's attitude, but he's just not that skilled. He could still improve with age, but unless he learns how to play the OF (and not just make up for mistakes with speed) AND is surrounded by mashers at the corners, no way I want him starting.

2005-08-26 15:05:25
70.   Howard Fox
69 he just reminds me of Ryan Freel, the way he goes about playing
2005-08-26 15:11:29
71.   Kayaker7
62 I was just reading your last comment that you like hitters who make a lot of contact and gets on base. With the exception of outstanding hitters like Vlad and Pujols, it seems like the ability to make contact and the ability to get on base are mutually exclusive. Am I missing something?
2005-08-26 15:18:26
72.   GoBears
71 Well, with rare exceptions (Gywwn, Boggs, Ichiro), "making contact" usually just means lots of outs. Not strikeouts, but most of the time, it doesn't matter. If you're really in a position where a "productive out" is all you need (late, close game, runner already in scoring position, less than 2 outs, no GiDP possibility), then maybe a guy who makes contact is better.
2005-08-26 15:19:33
73.   the OZ
I was interested to learn that Cruz, Jr.'s VORP rate is higher than:

Nick Swisher
Aubrey Huff
Garret Anderson
Mark Kotsay
Brad Wilkerson
Shannon Stewart

And right behind:

Preston Wilson
Randy Winn
Jay Gibbons

I guess he'll be offered arbitration this offseason. I'm not aware of where to find a list, but I imagine he'd be a Class C free agent, meaning the Dodgers would get a supplemental pick after the second round if he chose not to accept arbitration and signed elsewhere.

2005-08-26 15:24:53
74.   Howard Fox
73 if the Dodgers treat him right, let him play regularly, and offer him arbitration, I don't see why he wouldn't accept, unless he doesn't like the weather out here

71 so are you saying that either a hitter makes a lot of contact or walks & strikes out a lot, either or?

2005-08-26 15:28:16
75.   King of the Hobos
The problem with Cruz and arbitration is that he makes $4 mil this year I believe, you can only lose so much in arbitration. I'd prefer we just sign him to a cheap extension before arbitration.
2005-08-26 15:28:36
76.   Kayaker7
74 I'm just saying that most players seem to fall into two categories:

1. Make a lot of contact, hardly walk, have low OBP.

2. Strike out a lot, have a lot of power, walk a lot and have high OBP.

Guys like Ichiro and Vlad who make a lot of contact, hardly walk, and have high OBP seem to be extremely rare.

2005-08-26 15:29:27
77.   the OZ
So basically, we traded Tony Schrager for either Jose Cruz, Jr. or a draft pick in the 70-90 overall range.

I'd prefer Cruz to the pick, but overall it was quite a decent deal for us.

2005-08-26 15:31:25
78.   Jon Weisman
76 - I think there are also hitters like Mike Scioscia - good plate discipline but low power - aren't there? Scioscia's development as a player was hindered by people expecting him to be like your Category 2 - when really he was a third category. I don't know, but Navarro might be like that.
2005-08-26 15:33:03
79.   Howard Fox
78 I agree with you, Navarro seems to be the second coming of Scioscia in all respects
2005-08-26 15:36:19
80.   GoBears
76 Right. And the two go hand it hand, because making contact on balls outside the strike zone usually (unless it's Vlad who can drive anything he touches) means weak outs, no HRs. Swinging and missing at those pitches is often better than making contact (as long as there aren't 2 strikes), and knowing that it's a ball and laying off is even better. I think MOST players whose claim to fame is that they make contact also have lousy strike-zone judgment. Izzy comes to mind. Phillips. Lo Duca.
2005-08-26 15:38:56
81.   natepurcell
another aspect about navarro is how mature he is.
2005-08-26 15:41:07
82.   Howard Fox
80 I think you underestimate Navarro, he is a contact hitter with great knowledge of the strike zone...so he makes contact alot and draws walks...

come to think of it, we have Navarro, Robles, Drew, even Choi...not a bad start, 4 guys (potential starters all) who make contact and know the strike zone...

2005-08-26 15:43:24
83.   Howard Fox
money spent on their payroll & prominent names aside, the great Yankee teams of the past used to do just that, up and down the lineup...work the pitch counts, make contact, lay off the bad pitches...drive the opponent's pitching staff nuts...
2005-08-26 15:43:47
84.   the OZ
75 If we offer 80% of the $4M 2005 salary (I think the rule is eighty percent of previous salary, but that number might not be exactly right), Cruz would make $3.2M.

A big boost to the "if we don't spend $100M on payroll, the season is a failure" crowd. If there's room in th budget, Cruz could be a nice piece to the 2006 puzzle.

Displacing Repko and Grabowski is worth $3.2M to the Dodgers, in my eyes.

2005-08-26 15:44:16
85.   Kayaker7
82 Though I like Choi a lot, not sure you can call him someone who makes a lot of contact...
2005-08-26 15:45:53
86.   Jon Weisman
80 - Lo Duca? In his career, he has struck out once every 14.3 plate appearances - projecting to 35 strikeouts every 500 plate appearances. That's not lousy stike-zone judgment.
2005-08-26 15:47:23
87.   Kayaker7
86 He could still be swinging at balls out of the zone, but just making contact.
2005-08-26 15:49:28
88.   GoBears
82 Actually, I wasn't thinking of Navarro at all, and didn't mention him. I like what I see so far too. And he uses his good plate judgment to draw a lot of walks, and put good swings on strikes. But he'll have to develop some power to move from "useful" player to "good" player. That may come with time, age, bulking up a smidge.

Robles also walks (I asked a few days ago why opposing pitchers don't just throw him more strikes, since he has no power). Drew and Choi have lots of power, and are therefore much higher-ceiling players.

The nigh-on useless "contact" hitters are the ones without power who also don't walk. Like Izzy & Phillips. At least Phillips hits an occasional HR or double.

2005-08-26 15:54:26
89.   Howard Fox
88 Navarro has great value, at least to me, and I consider him to be "good". They don't have to hit home runs to be good, at least in my book.

Robles knows his limitations and is a slap and line drive hitter. I like him alot, and as long as he sta