Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Help
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Search
Google Search
Web
Toaster
Dodger Thoughts
Archives

2009
02  01 

2008
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2007
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2006
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2005
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2004
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2003
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2002
09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Gleason's Glory
2005-11-11 22:47
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Roy Gleason, believed to be the only major league player to later serve in the Vietnam War, has come out with an autobiography, Lost in the Sun, as told to Wallace Wasinack and Dodger team historian Mark Langill. A book signing is scheduled for Saturday from 2 p.m. to 4 p.m. at the Barnes & Noble on 791 S. Main Street in Orange.

Comments (328)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-11-12 07:48:33
1.   Vishal
according to tony jackson, the dodgers made some "initial overtures" to several free agents this week at the GM meetings, including brian giles. he also says that the payroll is "expected to shrink to somewhere in the $75 million to $80 million range".

http://www.dailynews.com/search/ci_3207672

2005-11-12 07:52:57
2.   D4P
Will be interesting to see if any free agents are willing to sign with a team that has neither a GM nor a field manager. But maybe the opportunity (however slight) to play along side Milton Bradley and Jeff Kent will be enough to convince them to sign.
2005-11-12 07:58:11
3.   D4P
Speaking of Milton:

"Talented and troubled Milton Bradley could be a choice (for the Yankees), but the Dodgers believe there will be an active trade market for him, a source said. It's believed that five other teams are interested - the A's, Cubs, Nationals, Pirates and Tigers. Jim Tracy, Bradley's former manager with the Dodgers, is now the Pirates' skipper and he thinks highly of the 27-year-old's talent."

http://tinyurl.com/9rw9c

2005-11-12 08:08:35
4.   Vishal
the pirates do need outfielders...

but if it's already predestined that the dodgers are intent on trading bradley, then i would love to see a kotsay/bradley/payton outfield in oakland, probably with swisher and payton rotating back and forth. that might be the best defensive outfield in the majors.

i don't know who we'd trade him for, though.

2005-11-12 08:20:05
5.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Will be interesting to see if any free agents are willing to sign with a team that has neither a GM nor a field manager.
If the money is right, free agents will sign with the Chicago Whales.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHH/
2005-11-12 08:24:15
6.   Bob Timmermann
Check out the pennant race in the 1915 Federal League.

It was the closest in major league history.

2005-11-12 08:59:14
7.   Vishal
[6] odd that the teams didn't play the same number of games. that's no way to run a league.
2005-11-12 09:07:25
8.   D4P
Anybody around here hear anything about the Troy Glaus rumors?
2005-11-12 09:31:09
9.   Vishal
here's an interesting article about aj burnett and how he's been thinking about his upcoming free agency payday since march, with buddy carl pavano telling him that the yankee players all have bentleys and ferraris. and you know things are good when your agent can just come out and say that he expects your contract will be "relatively exorbitant just in terms of sheer dollars".

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/13094270.htm

(registration required, but just use bugmenot)

2005-11-12 09:36:42
10.   werthgagne31
""""""' The Dodgers already have $58.66 million committed to nine players for 2006, and with the payroll expected to shrink to somewhere in the $75 million to $80 million range, that leaves no more than about $22 million with which to fill the other 16 spots on the season-opening roster. """"""""

lower and lower payroll, mediocre and more mediocre teams.
mccourt is killing this franchise.

2005-11-12 09:48:02
11.   D4P
10
It was mostly dead when McCourt arrived. She's just beating a mostly dead horse.
2005-11-12 09:48:37
12.   the OZ
10 - having a low payroll in 2006 isn't the worst thing that could happen. I;d rather have the money to available to go after some great players next year than waaay overpay for a Burnett or Giles.

Has anybody looked ahead to the 2007 free agent class yet?

2005-11-12 10:09:29
13.   werthgagne31
12
the payroll will be even lower next year.
this franchise is going down the toilet.
i bet mccourt fired depodesta just to have an excuse to not be active in the free agent market.

mccourt is only in this to make money, as soon as he loses money he will sell.

and as long as people support the team enough and as long as mccourt keeps his liabilities (payroll) low enough, he won't sell.

this team could have been great for years to come, if depodesta was kept and payroll was increase a little bit to about 115 million.

now that i've looked at other teams minor league players, we don't have any superstar minor leaguers, we just have a bunch of above average minor leaguers, guys that could easily tank.

no clear future superstar major leaguers.

i see alot of minor leaguers on other teams that have put up better stats than dodgers minor leaguers, we just have more above average minor leaguers than other teams.

other teams have a couple outstanding minor leaguers and nothing else, we have no outstanding minor leaguers, but a lot of above average minor leaguers.

2005-11-12 10:11:03
14.   Bob Timmermann
ESPN's ombudsman didn't care for the simulated news conferences particularly because real ESPN reporters participated.

http://tinyurl.com/awx78

There's a lot of discussion of Terrell Owens before that part.

2005-11-12 10:43:37
15.   Thomas Naccarato
I don't know if anyone has broght this up here before, but this morning it struck me suddenly how much the LA Times is paralleling our LA Dodgers. Especially after yesterday with the odd firing of OpEd regular Bob Scheer and Cartoonist Michael Ramirez.

Both owners, the Tribune Co's and the McCourt's seem to be hell bent on running their properties into the ground, and they are doing it in a most alarming pace.

That's why this morning, I canceled the LA Times, even when they offered me once again, an even cheaper subscription, then the cheaper subscription, then the cheaper subscription rate they've offered everytime I've gone to cancel the paper in the past.

I feel sorry for some of you guys that work there. It must be a living hell not knowing whether your coming or going.

Nothing really seems to go to plan does it?

2005-11-12 10:43:38
16.   Bob Timmermann
Nothing like the word ombudsman to kill a conversation.
2005-11-12 10:45:08
17.   Vishal
[15] psst, tommy!

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/287685.html

it occurred to jon just yesterday :)

2005-11-12 11:00:03
18.   Thomas Naccarato
Thanks Vishal and my apologies to Jon. I didn't get to do much in-depth reading yesterday.
2005-11-12 11:13:46
19.   Thomas Naccarato
Bob, This is from Jon's LAT/Dodgers thread:

[19.] Bob Timmermann
"I've probably been reading the LA Times as I have been conscious of being a Dodgers fan.

Yet, I don't get the LA Times and I will likely go to just as many Dodger games as I have in the past and watch as many on TV."

The stench of being a Times subscriber/reader never really does go away does it?

2005-11-12 11:32:17
20.   MikeLumHarris
14. The ESPN ombudsman doesn't seem to be having an effect. ESPN just keeps getting worse and worse.
2005-11-12 11:47:25
21.   HomeDePo
20

I truly think that if all the FSN's got some sort of local sports-center more often than the SoCAl report and there would be less horse racing that nobody would watch ESPN anymore.

They also need to eliminate all those morning 'Paid Programs,' but it is there for the taking!

2005-11-12 11:50:24
22.   MikeLumHarris
21. FSN tried a national sports show at ther inception and got creamed.

ESPN will continue to dominate because they have the national sports packages.

Also they are making suc a profit now that Fox would have to commit themselves to huge losses for many years to even try to compete.

2005-11-12 11:53:12
23.   overkill94
13 How does it feel to have the number one movie at the box office?
2005-11-12 12:16:01
24.   Bob Timmermann
Does anyone know how to make it so that the promo videos on the ESPN.com site don't start playing for no particular reason?

I have Firefox.

It's very annoying.

2005-11-12 12:30:48
25.   dzzrtRatt
22 Sort of on the same topic...

The Yankees have their own sports network with revenues of $150 million a year. The Mets are about to start one, and because of that anticipated revenue, they expect to be able to go after several FA's this winter and/or pay ManRam's salary.

Why don't all teams do this? And more to the point, why don't the Dodgers?

I expect part of the answer lies in the Fox Sports West contract, which was designed to prevent the Dodgers from going that route. But why did they sign a contract like that, if the additional revenues would make such a difference?

I hope the next owner, after McCourt and Fox, has a more creative approach to capitalizing on the fact that Southern California is an immense market, but its signal baseball franchise has a budget closer to a mid-level region's.

Because when you say "McCourt is just trying to make money," you're right, but he has no choice--he's got to pay off his loans. He's not a crafty businessman, leveraging his investment to reap immense profits. He's an idiot. The only difference between any of you and Frank McCourt is McCourt was able to talk bankers into lending him scads of money. His management abilities would barely keep a doughnut shop on Venice Boulevard afloat.

We want an owner who's looking to make big money. Arte Moreno isn't doing what he's doing because he hates money. He expects to turn a profit, and I'd bet on him. McCourt is just floundering, and that's why the payroll is low. He doesn't know how to make it go higher.

2005-11-12 12:32:12
26.   dzzrtRatt
Oh, and BTW...Go Bears!
2005-11-12 12:35:40
27.   D4P
25
You allude to a few things that have puzzled me.

1. Since McCourt and her husband had to borrow the money to purchase the team, couldn't ANYONE borrow money and purchase a team?

2. Since McCourt and her husband didn't have the money on hand to purchase the team, why would the league allow them to purchase the team? Shouldn't the fact that they didn't have the money be an indication that they won't have the money to spend on improving the team?

2005-11-12 12:45:48
28.   Bob Timmermann
Which total will be higher today?

Leinart TD passes?
Ayoob interceptions?

2005-11-12 12:48:40
29.   natepurcell
lol!

ayood is winning with one so far.

2005-11-12 12:48:47
30.   Bob Timmermann
There's one interception.
2005-11-12 12:49:18
31.   D4P
28
GM candidates that reject the Dodgers?
2005-11-12 12:50:35
32.   Bob Timmermann
I feel somewhat sorry for Ayoob because I think most of his problems are psychological. I've never seen a QB with Steve Blass Disease. He'd probably fare better if he hadn't had all the hype of being the next Aaron Rodgers.
2005-11-12 12:52:41
33.   dzzrtRatt
27 It puzzles me too. The conspiracy theory I've read here (and I generally avoid conspiracy theories) is that Bud Selig liked the idea of a financially constrained owner in the nation's #2 market. His big fear has been that 'big markets' like LA or Chicago would inevitably swallow up all the best players, leaving teams like the Brewers and Royals forever on the outs. Selig was against the far wealthier Eli Broad buying the team out from under McCourt, even though anyone in LA could tell you that Broad is the tycoon you would want involved. (He's not a nice guy, but he's also not someone content to be mediocre.)

We're being punished for Kevin Malone's sin of signing Kevin Brown to that massive contract.

2005-11-12 13:00:35
34.   natepurcell
if you go to milb.com you can watch a feed of the dodgers AFL players. i think all of them are in the lineup.
2005-11-12 13:04:18
35.   werthgagne31
75-80 million dollar payroll is pathetic.

16-21 million to upgrade is also pathetic.

especially when the 16-21 million has to go to 16 players.

the mininum salary is 300 something thousand, lets say it 350,000, multiply that time 14 players = 4,900,000, that leaves 11-16 million for 2 players.

actually we have many 2nd and 3rd year players, so its more like 7,000,000 if not more

do the math, maximum 7 million each for a starting pitcher and a bat if not less, basically another weaver and a mediocre bat.

this is pathetic.

2005-11-12 13:04:34
36.   D4P
33
How long does Gibby's deal with Satan last?
2005-11-12 13:05:19
37.   natepurcell
re 35

its just speculation. dont get all mad when we dont even know if its true yet.

2005-11-12 13:08:12
38.   gvette
33-- Fox had the Dodgers for sale for YEARS, and Broad never showed any interest. Same with his "involvement" as a potential owner of any new LA NFL team. For a man who gets want he wants in LA (ie being able to push through his vision of the redevelopment of Grand Ave in downtown), the fact that all he did was posture is telling.

The myth that Broad would be a great, local owner who would save us from the McCourts is just that, a myth. He had ample opportunity to step up to the plate (same with the NFL), and passed on it.

2005-11-12 13:11:12
39.   bokonon42
10- What's the deal with all the quotation marks? Are you the guy who gets royalties every time one is used?
2005-11-12 13:16:53
40.   overkill94
35 As you can see from the toolbar on the right, 2nd and 3rd year players only make slightly more than rookies.
2005-11-12 13:20:47
41.   natepurcell
wow.

kemp is 3-3 and a triple short of the cycle

laroche just hit his first AFL homerun. a rocket to right field.

go dodgers.

2005-11-12 13:24:47
42.   Bob Timmermann
Those are " which are © werthgagne31, All Rights Reserved except in the Philippines.
2005-11-12 13:27:14
43.   Tommy Naccarato
Notre Dame did one of the most respectful, if not classy things I have ever seen in college football after the game just now. They actually followed the Navy players over to the corner of the stadium where the Naval cadets and their fans were sitting and listened to them sing their alma mater.

Go Irish!

2005-11-12 13:27:16
44.   Steve
It should be noted that regardless of McCourt's now undeniable incompetence, nothing will kill this team faster than a $100 million payroll in 2006. There are far more people who should be afraid and outraged that McCourt would panic, scramble to keep a "promise" which was stupid in the first place, and start throwing money at the current crop of free agents, all of whom make Jason Repko look like a tempting option in centerfield next year.
2005-11-12 13:28:19
45.   natepurcell
re 13

i disagree with your statements that we only have above average players in the farm.

we are going to have 3 players in the top 20 of BAs top 100 this upcoming spring. probably 5 in the top 50.

you also have to take into context age vs level of play. dodgers have always pushed their prospects hard and let them face higher competition. Look at joel guzman, he was only 20 in the southern league- a lot of teams have 20 yr old prospects in the SAL league. Hunter pence, the astros slugger got tons of publicy for killing the Sally league, and he was 22 there!

2005-11-12 13:28:58
46.   Bob Timmermann
43

I watch "Knute Rockne, All-American" and cheer when George Gipp dies.

Every time Notre Dame wins a football game, Jesus cries.

2005-11-12 13:29:52
47.   Tommy Naccarato
44 And your just recognizing this now? We may not agree on much, but one thing we have in common is the dislike for the family known as McCourt.

See, there is common ground after all.

2005-11-12 13:31:28
48.   Tommy Naccarato
47You are going to burn in Hell! George Gipp was a saint. He was also a president.
2005-11-12 13:33:19
49.   Bob Timmermann
48

Hmm my choices are:
1) Root for Notre Dame
2) Go to Hell

Where do I sign up for option 2?

2005-11-12 13:33:46
50.   Tommy Naccarato
Whomever said they saw Matt Leinart in a LA hat at a Laker game, well are you sure it wasn't an LA Angels of Anaheim hat like he was just wearing on TV?
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-11-12 13:34:53
51.   D4P
49
Fill out one of these:

LADodgerGMJobApplication.doc

2005-11-12 13:34:54
52.   Tommy Naccarato
Bob,
Next year is going to be a banner year when the Irish destroy Uclah.
2005-11-12 13:39:03
53.   bokonon42
Speaking of which, did anybody go see Jesus is Magic, last night? Is it worth driving from the IE to Irvine for? It'll be in Pasadena next Friday, but not till the day after I already have to drive out there for Microsoft's SQL Server/Visual Studio shindig. Maybe if I email Bill Gates, he'll push that back a day, to more completely meet my needs. . .
2005-11-12 13:39:15
54.   Bob Timmermann
I will worry about next season in the Fall of 2006.

My abiding distaste of Notre Dame is so great that I root for USC, Stanford, and BYU when they play them.

One day I will have to post my 95 theses on why I hate Notre Dame.

2005-11-12 13:39:38
55.   natepurcell
loney is getting pretty big. filling out nicely. The natural power will come.
2005-11-12 13:39:56
56.   Tommy Naccarato
D4P, Very good!
2005-11-12 13:41:27
57.   MikeB
Who do we want to buy the Dodgers? Who can afford the Dodgers? Here are two candidates.

Eli Broad: Age: 72. Broad ranks as the 39th richest person in America, with assets of $5.5 billion. Forbes profile: http://tinyurl.com/2gjv4
Broad Foundation: http://tinyurl.com/a9bm5
Investors Daily
http://www.investors.com/editorial/IBDArticles.asp?artsec=21&issue=20051104

Philip Anschutz Age: 65 Forbes: Net Worth: $7.2 billion Source: Investments. Self made.
Marital Status: Married, 3 children
Hometown: Denver, CO Education: University of Kansas, Bachelor of Arts / Science
Father owned contract drilling company. Phil bought dad out 1961, struck big in Wyoming, Utah. Moved into stocks, real estate, railroads. Laid fiber along rail lines, took public as Qwest Communications. Now runs wide-ranging empire in telecom, sports, entertainment. Biggest holding: theater chain Regal Cinemas. Also owns LA's Staples Center, stakes in pro basketball's LA Lakers, hockey's Kings. Promotes family-values agenda through various motion picture projects. Next film: C.S. Lewis' The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe.

FYI - TinyURL seems to be having problems today.

Fight On! Go USC!

2005-11-12 13:42:03
58.   Tommy Naccarato
Bob,
Even Ted Kacynski had to have a manifesto...
2005-11-12 13:44:09
59.   Tommy Naccarato
55 Do you think he is using the Clear?
2005-11-12 13:45:20
60.   Bob Timmermann
Jon has weighed in before for on Eli Broad. You might want to check the archives.

Philip Anschutz would have the opposite PR problem of the McCourts. Anschutz never appears in public or gives interview. And the Kings never had the reputation of spending a lot of money and lost many good players to free agency or trades because they didn't want to pay what they were worth.

2005-11-12 13:45:49
61.   Steve
Not BYU!
2005-11-12 13:48:02
62.   Bob Timmermann
I even root for "God's Team 2.0" vs. "God's Team 1.0"!
2005-11-12 13:54:14
63.   the OZ
54 - Bob, are you a Lutheran that still holds a Reformation-era grudge against the Catholic Church?
2005-11-12 13:55:28
64.   Bob Timmermann
I ask this question of people who didn't attend Notre Dame?

Why do people choose to root for them?

If it has anything to do with religion, then why don't the same number of people root for Boston College?

It's all hucksterism.

2005-11-12 13:55:28
65.   Fallout
24. Bob Timmermann

Go to your control panel, add and remove programs, find ESPNMotion and Remove.

Now, if we can just do that with the McCourts.

2005-11-12 13:56:06
66.   Bob Timmermann
63
I'm a Catholic who holds a grudge against Notre Dame.
2005-11-12 13:57:10
67.   trainwreck
It is because Notre Dame was good for most of people's lives so they like them.
2005-11-12 13:57:45
68.   natepurcell
so kemp didnt get a triple in his last at bat... he homered instead.

so for the day he was 4-4 with a 2b and 2 homeruns. decent i guess.

2005-11-12 13:58:44
69.   trainwreck
No triple what a loser.
2005-11-12 13:58:53
70.   Jon Weisman
For those of you still reading the Times, you can see today in the lead story of the Calendar section what kind of talent Eli Broad thinks is worth $23.8 million. Hint: It's not A-Rod.
2005-11-12 14:00:27
71.   Bob Timmermann
67
[rant]
But USC, Michigan, Alabama, and Oklahoma have all been successful too. It's just that Notre Dame has been force-fed to people to the Great Unwashed as the college football team that belongs to the average fan, when it really doesn't.
[/rant]
2005-11-12 14:01:29
72.   MikeB
60. Bob - I read some of Jon's archived articles about Broad. They were written a BEFORE we knew just how woeful and miserable the McCourts ownership would truly turn out. I hope Jon will revist the topic soon and start a grass roots campaign to "change the Dodgers ownership."
I am not a proponent for either gentleman buying the Dodgers over the other -- I am simply a wishful thinker hoping someone will step up to the plate and offer the McCourts enough cash to convince them to bail out and head back for Boston. And, hopefully the next owner will be someone with plenty of money and closer ties to Los Angeles. Now, if you will excuse me, I have to run down to the local market and buy MegaLotto tickets. ;>)
2005-11-12 14:03:11
73.   trainwreck
71-
True. Plus Notre Dame has the whole mystique with Rudy and the Gipper and all that jazz. People think Notre Dame is college football.
2005-11-12 14:04:44
74.   Bob Timmermann
Bringing up the name "Rudy" to me is like telling Steve that Jim Tracy has decided that he doesn't like Pittsburgh and wants to come back to work for the new Dodgers GM.
2005-11-12 14:05:33
75.   trainwreck
I hope Philip Anschutz would never buy the team. "Promoting family values" are words that scare me.
2005-11-12 14:06:03
76.   Jon Weisman
At the risk of getting in trouble at work, I don't think Broad is the answer. I've never endorsed the McCourts, but Broad just doesn't have the passion for baseball that you'd want.

The Dodgers need another option. But I really don't think we're going to see one for a few years.

2005-11-12 14:06:52
77.   Bob Timmermann
"Promoting family values" would not be the problem with Anschutz. Anschutz just wouldn't want to spend a lot of money, but he would want to build a stadium downtown and turn Dodger Stadium into a giant mall with luxury apartments.
2005-11-12 14:13:03
78.   MikeB
76. I politely disagree Jon. I think someone will view the current situation as an opportunity. Don't savvy business people try to buy properties with undervalued assets such as a prime location, loyal customers, strong "brand" recogition? (sorry about using that "word" here). The McCourts are deal makers -- not builders (despite their claims otherwise). If they get a good deal, they will sell. I'm betting sooner rather than later.
2005-11-12 14:15:42
79.   trainwreck
Let's get Michael Jordan to buy the team. He wants to own a franchise and he likes baseball hahaha.
2005-11-12 14:16:24
80.   the OZ
I can't remember if this has been discussed, but a couple of recent articles at BP indicate that there are rumors the McCourts have decided to promote Kim Ng.

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4601
(scroll down to the bit on LaRoche)

http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4598

I haven't been able to confirm these rumors on any other outlets yet.

2005-11-12 14:20:52
81.   D4P
80
Let's pretend for a moment that Ng becomes the new GM. Any experts out there care to speculate as to how Ng's approach would differ from Depo's?
2005-11-12 14:20:53
82.   Jon Weisman
78 - Mike, you're polite even without saying so :)

My question is, what's undervalued about the Dodgers?

Two years ago, they were perceived (true or not) as a money-losing franchise with a high payroll and stadium infrastructure issues. McCourt, like him or not, has apparently addressed or is addressing all three of those things.

The strengths of the team - location, customers - they're still there.

The only new problem with the team is the employee chaos.

Now sure, there is certainly an offer one could make to McCourt that he wouldn't refuse. But isn't it the point? It would have to be at a premium compared to the 2004 price. If you were going to by the team now, why wouldn't you have done it then?

I don't think McCourt will sell until a) he really needs the money, b) he starts losing money or c) all of Los Angeles comes at his house with torches and pitchforks. None of which appear to be happening yet.

But we can always revisit this in a year.

2005-11-12 14:26:07
83.   molokai
"Good Night and Good Luck"
Smart, simple, and short. Great recipe for a movie.
2005-11-12 14:34:50
84.   MikeB
82. I believe the McCourts have actually lowered the value of the franchise. Yes, they have made some cosmetic improvements to the facility (and not all have been well-received). Yes, they have lowered the payroll, but at what cost to the product? And, the fans still showed up in 2005 in huge numbers. But can that last with the management of the team in such disarray?

A certain amount of any sports franchise's value is based on its success on the field - and its perceived ability to continue to be successful into the future. A team's perceived "success" value might be compared to a business valuation of goodwill - or an investor looking at a company's stock price as compared to its expected future earnings.

Imagine the value of the Dodgers if - they were a championship team, with a stable ownership, and respected leadership in both the dugout and in the GM chair, and the pipeline full of prospects to help continue the good times.

Wouldn't that be a scenario that would markedly increase the market value of the team?

With today's situation, I believe an Arte Moreno type could step in and take the Dodgers to a whole new level of value - and success on the field.

2005-11-12 14:40:18
85.   trainwreck
Well the Redskins have had the highest worth in the NFL for some years now and they have been constantly bad and underachieving until this year. With an owner that has a bad image and a constant changing of management and coaching. So on the field does not mean as much in my opinion. Look at the A's. Lew Wolfe got them pretty cheap.
2005-11-12 14:41:23
86.   Jon Weisman
84 - I guess that's where we disagree. It has only been one losing season. Meanwhile, as I wrote on BP yesterday, the team's TV contracts are lucrative and don't expire for 8-10 years. It won't take much, whoever the new GM is, to get the Dodgers to where they were pre-McCourt ... 80-92 wins per year.

And if nothing else, the move to fire DePodesta is an attempt to cultivate goodwill among the fan base. A bad attempt, in my opinion, but most people are happy.

The Dodgers really have had bad seasons and chaos before.

"Imagine the value of the Dodgers if - they were a championship team, with a stable ownership, and respected leadership in both the dugout and in the GM chair, and the pipeline full of prospects to help continue the good times."

- I have to go back to 1988 to imagine that. Has the team been going down in value since?

"With today's situation, I believe an Arte Moreno type could step in and take the Dodgers to a whole new level of value - and success on the field. "

I'd love to see it, but trust me, the Dodgers would be more expensive today than when McCourt bought them.

2005-11-12 14:53:25
87.   bokonon42
Public Service Anouncement: Comment number 23 makes a lot more sense if you know that the cartoon chicken movie beat out the $.50, one. It's possible I'm the only idiot who's spent the last two hours wondering about that. . .
2005-11-12 14:56:31
88.   Bob Timmermann
That sort of makes sense, but I just figured it was a reference to something that went over my head.
2005-11-12 14:57:11
89.   MikeB
86. Time for a dignified retreat. I guess a better argument for me to make - because you have expertly countered most of my subjective comments with cold hard facts - is to say that the value of the Dodgers as a business, and, more importantly as a successful baseball team, are both less than they should be - and that I definitely hold the McCourts accountable for that.

I will not argue the point that someone - anyone - would have to buy the Dodgers at a price greater than what the McCourts paid. I will argue, however, that if that someone had the capital to do so, they would have the opportunity to greatly increase the value of the team just by being better owners.

I am truthfully depressed to be discussing what's wrong with the business and management aspects of the Dodgers. I would much prefer reading, and commenting, on the players and the game of baseball. -- So, how many days until pitchers and catchers report for spring training?

2005-11-12 14:58:31
90.   willhite
84 -

Your feeling that the McCourt's actions have lowered the value of the team is just wishful thinking. I agree with Jon that the team is certainly worth more today then when they bought it.

My hope is that the McCourt's decide to run away from the horrible press they'll be getting over the next year or two and decide to make a large, quick profit by selling.

There are about 120 groups vying for ownership in DC. One of the losers would certainly be happy to buy the Dodgers. By the way, does anyone know the comparative values of the two teams?

2005-11-12 15:05:06
91.   Jon Weisman
" I will argue, however, that if that someone had the capital to do so, they would have the opportunity to greatly increase the value of the team just by being better owners."

No argument there.

2005-11-12 15:11:10
92.   natepurcell
*http://baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=4601
(scroll down to the bit on LaRoche*

can someone post what it says on laroche or dodger prospects? i dont have a BP subscription.

2005-11-12 15:16:15
93.   natepurcell
a JtD update from rotoworld:

"Joel Guzman went 3-for-4 with two RBI yesterday to raise his DSL average to .360.
He has a .467 OBP and a .560 slugging percentage in 50 at-bats. He's probably not all that far away from the majors offensively. If only the Dodgers could decide where on the field he best fits."

excellent.

2005-11-12 15:20:44
94.   fanerman
93 - At this point, I don't care where on the field he fits as long as he's in a Dodger uniform.
2005-11-12 15:24:54
95.   fanerman
Nate,

The first link says:
"Andy LaRoche: Coming quickly, tearing up the league after a huge half-season at Vero Beach. Not to put to fine a point on this, but why doesn't the name "Logan White" come up more in baseball discussions? He's put together one hell of a farm system in Los Angeles, even as the rest of the organization was having its problems. If the rumors are true, Kim Ng has inherited a good baseball situation; it remains to be seen whether the ownership and media will allow her to succeed."

There's also a note on Reggie Abercrombie. It says unless he improves his plate discipline, he won't be too successful in the big leagues. Though he could be a useful extra outfielder.

The second link is just a link to the Kim Ng interview from awhile ago. It says:
"The Los Angeles Dodgers are reportedly on the verge of hiring Kim Ng as their GM to replace the recently fired Paul DePodesta. Ng sat down with Jonah Keri a couple years ago to discuss arbitration hearings, team building, and her candidacy for GM positions. Here's another look at the interview."

2005-11-12 15:27:06
96.   natepurcell
thanks fanerman.

all our top dodger prospects have played really well this winter. so at least there are some bright spots in the organization while the front office is going through turmoil.

2005-11-12 15:30:08
97.   Steve
JtD for Bob Wickman!
2005-11-12 15:31:28
98.   molokai
I'm in the McCourt's corner. The idiot writers of the LA Times hate him, the DT posters now hate him, the sabermetricians hate him, the old boys club hates him. You must be doing something right to have so many people hate you from both sides of the spectrum. Anytime Plaschke and Sheehan agree on a subject, something is fishy.

Why the hate:
1. LA Times - cause McCourt had the gall to buy the team without being stinky rich which meant he wasn't going to spend 120 million and buy a pennant which would help them sell papers and advertising. Cause he had the gall to hire a 31 year old Ivy league number crunching geek who just happened to have played a higher level of baseball then anyone employed by the Times and really wasn't a geek but anyone who wears glasses and can use a computer, you know is a geek in their eyes. In the two years the McCourts have owned the team they have fired/let go many old time Dodgers employee's who were friendly with the writers thus removing the sources for their behind the back stories. This is a crime because you know what a "great" job they had been doing in running the team, and when you spend 1/2 billion for a team and put everything at risk for the pleasure of owning a team why should you be able to pick who works for you. Then he fired the same GM that the writers had spent 24 months trying to get fired and they turned on him because Depo was now gone and he was the only one left as a target.

DT Posters - McCourt was a traitor to their sabermetric cause when he fired the man carrying their flag. For months McCourt was defended here from the many things that Tommy N would accuse him of because he had hired Depo in the 1st place and anyone who hired Depo must not be doing bad things. As soon as Depo was canned they jumped on McCourt like a pirrana on a bloody stump in the Amazon. Everything that anybody had ever said about McCourt was all the sudden true because of this one act.

Old School Dodger Fans - they take their cue from the LA Times, unable to formulate opinions on their own. They listen to talk radio and think the Big Nasty actually knows more then they do about sports. Sadly he probably does but that just shows how ignorant the masses are. They are happy Depo was fired but they still hate McCourt because, will because..., will because the Times says you should. If you were to ask the normal Dodger fan why they hate McCourt they would let fly with stereotypical answers
1. Doesn't spend enough money on payroll
2. Doesn't understand the Dodger way - the Dodger way doesn't exist but don't tell them that.
3. Is going to tear down Dodger Stadium - right, especially after spending millions each off season to modernize the stadium
4. Added more expensive seats and dared to change Dodger stadium - sure is a crime to try to make some money on a 1/2 billion dollar investment and modernize a stadium that is now the oldest in the NL except for the historical Wrigley field.
5. Keeps firing employee's - bad, very bad, everyone is a good employee, no one who works for the Dodgers should ever get fired. Not with the success that franchise has had.

I'm sure Tommy can come up with more specific reasons why the McCourts are such crappy owners. And he may very well be right

BUT

The McCourt's may or may not be lousy owners but just like in Depo's case, two years is not enough time to be burning them in hell. If Depo deserved more time then surely they deserve more time. They don't have a history of running a corporation like the Dodgers and because of that they have made tons of mistakes. Time will tell if they are jerks and can't learn from their mistakes or they are jerks who don't believe they ever made a mistake or just a stinky rich couple in over their heads for the first couple of years and with time will do us proud. Contrary to popular opinion they didn't make their money by being idiots or stupid. Just because they had to leverage their assets to buy the Dodgers doesn't mean they didn't build quite an empire to have the assets to leverage.

Someone asked why anyone couldn't just borrow the money and buy the Dodgers. You can if you have 1/2 billion in real estate on your ledger. That is the easy part. Getting the old boy Selig group to approve you is the hard part. They don't want an owner who is going to upset the apple cart. You can rest assured they would never let Mark Cuban buy a baseball team.

2005-11-12 15:38:06
99.   Steve
98 -- This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day!
2005-11-12 15:47:03
100.   D4P
Has anyone ever seen any statistical models that include "profits" as a dependent variable and things like win-loss records, attendance, salaries, location of team, etc. as independent variables?

I'd be curious to know which factors have the greatest influence on profit. There seems to be an implicit assumption that winning is good for profits, such that profit-maximizing owners will "naturally" do what it takes to win because it is in their best financial interest.

However, last year's Dodger team had a losing record, yet the McCourts still made money. And, I'm sure that there were probably teams with winning records who lost money (if not in 2005, then certainly in prior years).

In general, while it "sounds good" that owners should want to field the best team they can so as to maximize profits, I'm not convinced that such will necessarily be the case, and I'd like to see some evidence in this area.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-11-12 15:52:48
101.   bokonon42
100- I'm not sure it's possible, given that every owner lies about every aspect of every entry on his books. Maybe if you had subpoena power. . .

Wait, do you have subpoena power? Because that would rock.

2005-11-12 15:56:30
102.   D4P
101
The status of my subpoena power is classified. You'd have to subpoena me to access that information.

BTW, is there a worse word in the English language than "subpoena"?

2005-11-12 16:00:13
103.   trainwreck
Colonel, that word annoys me.
2005-11-12 16:06:58
104.   fanerman
100 - I think Moneyball alluded that the most important thing was winning for attendance. Moreso than favorite players and what not.
2005-11-12 16:07:52
105.   overkill94
87 Sorry for the confusion, I thought that joke would go over much better than it did. Hopefully most people simply didn't know which movie was #1 and moved on, that would be better for my pride :)
2005-11-12 16:09:27
106.   GoBears
102 BTW, is there a worse word in the English language than "subpoena"?

"Utilize" That's the worst word I know. Absolutely unnecessary. It means EXACTLY the same thing as "use," but people use (ahem) "utilize" to sound sophisticated, especially in sports. I've even heard sportscasters say "use," then stop and correct themselves to say "utilize." Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!

2005-11-12 16:11:52
107.   overkill94
Is there a more boring brand of football than the SEC? I think Alabama has scored a grand total of like 50 points in their 9 wins this year. Long live the Pac-10!
2005-11-12 16:13:11
108.   Steve
102 -- contact as a verb
2005-11-12 16:15:27
109.   overkill94
106 Eh, utilize has more of an opportunistic slant to it. "Utilized the deep ball" has a more specific meaning than "used the deep ball". The first use implies that the deep ball was working well for the team while the second just states that they tried it.
2005-11-12 16:15:46
110.   Johnson
102 - "Erstwhile". Hands down the worst word in the english language.
2005-11-12 16:17:08
111.   overkill94
While we're word-bashing, I can't stand the word "whom". People always correct you when you don't use it, but doesn't "who" always refer to a person?
2005-11-12 16:17:59
112.   trainwreck
I hope Dorrell has some good defensive recruits coming in.
2005-11-12 16:20:49
113.   bokonon42
102- Hopefully. But it isn't really fair to blame the word for what's been done to it.
2005-11-12 16:22:05
114.   natepurcell
i happen to be enjoying this lsu bama game. i guess i like hard hitting defensive battles.
2005-11-12 16:22:32
115.   Johnson
111

"Whom" is the objective case of "who". If it's being used as a subject (e.g. "Who ate my cake?") "who" is correct. If it's being used as an object (e.g. "Whom do I give the paperwork to?") "whom" is correct. The problem is that so few people seem to know how to properly use the two.

2005-11-12 16:22:43
116.   Steve
102 -- multi-year
2005-11-12 16:25:34
117.   bokonon42
111- Use who when it stands in for the subject of the sentence; whom when it stands in for the object.

Or just never use whom. Most people don't. It's the incorrect use of whom, "It was Paul whom crossed the ocean. . ." that is a hanging offense. At least in my company.

2005-11-12 16:28:59
118.   overkill94
115, 117 I still don't get it
2005-11-12 16:34:31
119.   bokonon42
115- Ending a sentence with a preposition in your second example? For shame. 8^)
2005-11-12 16:34:48
120.   Steve
Rule #1: Substitute "he/him" or "she/her": If it's either "he" or "she," then it's who; if it's "him" or "her," then it's whom.

Another way of looking at it is substituting the name of the person you are referring to. If the sentence still makes sense, who is correct. If not, whom is correct. For example, Who is at the door? Frank McCourt is at the door.

2005-11-12 16:38:19
121.   Linkmeister
Whom should I blame for my cable being out since 0915HST? On a college football Saturday? With the UH game on PPV only this evening?

Oceanic/Time Warner is gonna have some really unhappy customers if they don't get this fixed in the next four hours.

And why doesn't a giant media company like TW have a website (Oceanic Cable) which actually informs its customers just what's going on with its system?

Thank you. I needed to growl somewhere, and DT got elected.

2005-11-12 16:38:46
122.   Bob Timmermann
In 2001 I went to a December game at the Rose Bowl between UCLA and ASU. The game wasn't televised as it had been delayed because of 9/11. UCLA despite being 6-4 wasn't going to a bowl game.

It was like attending a baseball game in late September between two teams mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

UCLA won 52-42.

This is going to be one of those games, although I won't be seeing much of it because I'm going to a concert tonight.

2005-11-12 16:39:36
123.   bokonon42
In the sentence: "I gave the ball to Sarah." I'm the subject, because I am the one WHO gave (verb) the ball. Sarah is the subject, because she is the the one to WHOM I gave it.

Get yourself to a bookstore and pay seven dollars for Strunk and White's elements of style. It'll change your life. You can be one of the fancy few correcting the errors of others. Chicks dig pedantry.

2005-11-12 16:40:43
124.   Bob Timmermann
If you want to be really pedantic, study up on the difference between was/were and you can learn about the subjunctive in English.

It's pedantry to extremes.

2005-11-12 16:41:02
125.   fanerman
121
"Whom should I blame for my cable being out?"

According to Steve's Rule #1, Substitute he/him.

"I should blame he."
"I should blame him."

Looks like it should "who" there, buddy.

Sorry I couldn't resist.

2005-11-12 16:42:44
126.   Johnson
119

Erm, yep. I guess I was just trying to avoid putting the "to" by the "whom" because of the whole "To whom/for whom" rule. On ending a sentence with a preposition, I basically subscribe to the "up with which I will not put" philosophy. Funny how one can be a stickler for some grammar rules and be completely cavalier about others - though there seems to be some controversy about whether the preposition rule is "real".

2005-11-12 16:43:16
127.   bokonon42
Slow again. I should get myself to a bookstore and find something to convince me to refresh the page before posting a pile-on.
2005-11-12 16:43:17
128.   fanerman
125 - There should be a "be" in there somewhere.
2005-11-12 16:43:38
129.   Linkmeister
"Reaches back to shelves for Strunk & White"

125 Beg to differ. ;)

There are too many Whos here; I'm feeling Grinch-y.

2005-11-12 16:43:40
130.   trainwreck
What concert are you going to Bob?
2005-11-12 16:44:28
131.   Bob Timmermann
Lyle Lovett, Joe Ely, Guy Clark and John Hiatt at Disney Hall.
2005-11-12 16:48:03
132.   Bob Timmermann
At this moment, Drew Olson's passer efficiency for the game against ASU is 487.7
2005-11-12 16:49:15
133.   fanerman
125 - I'm certain my grammar is right, but it looks like I misapplied Steve's Rule. If I were more awake, I might have realized it at the time. Ah well.
2005-11-12 16:50:43
134.   Johnson
I, as a long-time non-southern California resident, find myself this afternoon watching a UCLA football game on TV and discussing grammar on a baseball blog. Weird.
2005-11-12 16:51:05
135.   Steve
I stole that rule from the internet.
2005-11-12 16:58:55
136.   trainwreck
I was not even aware that the UCLA game was still in the first. This is has a good chance of being a ridiculous game.
2005-11-12 16:58:59
137.   Bob Timmermann
USC must be watching UCLA play today (well, they're not, but it's a metaphor) and thinking "I think we can score against these guys."
2005-11-12 17:00:15
138.   Bob Timmermann
And for our host, Stanford leads OSU 17-7 in the second quarter. The Cardinal needs to win 2 of its last 3 games to make it to a bowl game. Stanford's next two games are at home against Cal and Notre Dame.
2005-11-12 17:04:51
139.   bokonon42
135- Oh sure, blame the computers. . .
2005-11-12 17:06:03
140.   GoBears
109 That's not right, overkill. "Use" and "utilize" are perfect synonyms. There is no specialy connotation of either. "Utilize" should be stricken from the language.
2005-11-12 17:07:23
141.   Steve
Bill Plaschke couldn't follow E.B. White's dictum to omit unnecessary words, because then his pages would be blank.
2005-11-12 17:34:18
142.   bokonon42
141- I think that set everybody to day-dreaming and whistling "What a Wonderful World."
2005-11-12 17:39:41
143.   Linkmeister
142 Or "Daydream Believer."
2005-11-12 17:41:29
144.   molokai
131
Went to see Joe Ely around 18 years ago in West Los Angeles at a small club. Around 11:00 he finally showed up to play but my wife was fast asleep and no matter how loud he played she didn't budge until he had been playing for around 45 minutes. No drugs were involved she just tends to fall asleep if she's not moving. One of the reasons we have cats instead of children. Great show.
2005-11-12 17:55:44
145.   Johnson
144 "...she just tends to fall asleep if she's not moving. One of the reasons we have cats instead of children."

Because she couldn't stay awake to care for children or because she couldn't stay awa...erm, never mind.

2005-11-12 17:56:18
146.   Sam DC
My most annoying word is "notwithstanding," which as far as I can tell means the same thing if you drop the "not," which just isn't right.

Akin to the flammable, inflammable problem, but pretentious and thus annoying instead of interesting.

2005-11-12 18:07:32
147.   D4P
144
We have cats instead of kids as well. If they annoy us, we just put them outside. Problem solved.
2005-11-12 18:09:05
148.   overkill94
140 Perfect synonyms or not, they have a difference to me.

I think I'm gonna just keep living a whom-free life and punch anyone who tries to correct me.

2005-11-12 18:14:26
149.   overkill94
140 Plus, I don't want to be a jerk or anything, but here's how dictionary.com defines them:

utilize: To put to use, especially to find a profitable or practical use for

use: To put into service or apply for a purpose; employ

2005-11-12 18:18:13
150.   bokonon42
148- I endorese this decision. "Whom" is like bunting--better not to utilize it at all than to utilize it incorrectly. Notwithstanding the advise of erstwhile experts.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-11-12 18:20:43
151.   slackfarmer
100 As 101 pointed out, the problem with analyzing profit as a dependent variable is that the owners tend to cook the books. Every now and again (annually?) Forbes will do an article on baseball and including their estimates of how the teams are doing financially. One such article a few years ago found the Brewers had the highest profits because of transfer payments from other teams (which they were suppose to spend on players to improve competition).

As for last year's crappy season not hurting the bottom line -- it will, just not that immediately. Attendance is mostly dependant on performance over a number of years rather than any one year (see http://tinyurl.com/d3um5). It's very comparable to a company with a good reputation and a well regarded brand. Cutting corners on product quality won't hurt sales instantly, but over time it surely will destroy the brand.

2005-11-12 18:27:50
152.   overkill94
150 To expand the analogy, literary people should use "whom" whenever they want since they know how to use it and when to use it (like having Izturis bunt in the 8 spot with a pinch-hitter coming up late in a tie game).

Adversely, engineers like me who took a grand total of zero english classes in college should just dump it altogether (bunting Bradley in extra innings with Kent on deck but Saenz in the hole).

2005-11-12 18:28:47
153.   D4P
151
Yeah, I wasn't sure if profit figures were released publicly or not. And I think it's probably true that, while in any given year, it might be possible to maximize profits by cutting a few corners to keep costs down, that's probably not the best long-term strategy. However, if you purchase a team with no intention of keeping it very long, and just want to make a quick buck, then you might choose to sacrifice the future for the present.
2005-11-12 18:29:11
154.   natepurcell
why do i keep hearing trade rumors involving the dodgers and glaus?
2005-11-12 18:31:14
155.   D4P
154
Because you keep reading TopDeck's posts.
2005-11-12 18:39:41
156.   zappala
138 One of the great things about Stanford is you can listen to all games free of charge at kzsu.stanford.edu. Comes in handy if they are playing your team.
2005-11-12 18:40:49
157.   slackfarmer
153 Yep. Classic LBO strategy. Buy a well respected company entirely on debt. Maximize short-term profits with flashy marketing and cost-cutting, all at the expense of long-term profits. Then sell or go public before the new, bad reputation overtakes the good, old reputation.

Translated, McCourt should sell the club after the 2007 season.

2005-11-12 18:41:35
158.   natepurcell
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5072656

that also expects a glaus to the dodgers trade.

2005-11-12 18:47:07
159.   D4P
158
Nate - Which is the worse deal: Glaus for $33 million over 3 years or Furcal for $50 million over 5 years?
2005-11-12 18:49:33
160.   natepurcell
glaus' remaining salary

06:$10.25M, 07:$11.75M, 08:$13.75M
(includes 4milSB porated over 4 yr)
PLUS

deal includes $0.25M annually for personal business expenses (wife's equestrian training)

re 159
both are pretty bad. i dont know, i wouldnt want either.

2005-11-12 18:51:22
161.   slackfarmer
158 BP has a version with Glaus going to the Red Sox. They basically say it's addition by subtraction because of Glaus' huge contract:

"one thing is clear: any trade involving Glaus will help make the Snakes a better team in 2006 and beyond"

Why would we want that guy. We've got a one season hole at 3B before the stars from the Suns are ready. I'm content to go with Aybar/Perez/Robles.

2005-11-12 18:53:34
162.   D4P
160
I wouldn't want either contract either. That stuff about Glaus' wife's equestrian training is ridiculous. It's as if Dbacks aren't doing enough for Glaus already by paying him $10-13 million a year, and he somehow shouldn't have to use that money to pay for the training.

Maybe we should all be able to identify superfluous expenditures and have our employers pay for them in addition to our salary.

2005-11-12 19:03:25
163.   overkill94
UCLA = worst tacklers ever
2005-11-12 19:11:45
164.   Johnson
163
With the possible exception of the Stanford band.
2005-11-12 19:23:22
165.   Fallout
98. molokai

Old School Dodger Fans - they take their cue from the LA Times, unable to formulate opinions on their own. They listen to talk radio and think the Big Nasty actually knows more then they do about sports.

That is quite a blanket statement. I'm what you would consider an "Old School Dodger Fan" but my ideas about this team are my own. The way that I see it is that the LA Times agrees with what I'm thinking about the Dodgers (most of the time). I don't live in LA anymore and do not listen to talk radio. I do not even know who the Big Nasty is. (When I did live in LA I listened to Hacksaw Hamilton-10 yrs ago)

I like reading your posts but this time the blanket does not cover well.

The McCourts can do with their team as they will. If they put pop-up ads in you seats at Dodger Stadium to increase profits are you still going to follow? :)

(imagine that as you choose)

2005-11-12 20:03:06
166.   dzzrtRatt
98 Molokai,

You know, I don't think I'd have such a dire opinion of the McCourts if, in fact, they'd actually lined up Gillick and Valentine, or some other combination of Lasorda-approved veteran talent, and were ready to slot them in for DePodesta. I would vehemently disagree with it, but it would at least be a plan followed through. And from what the Times wrote, and what Lasorda was saying, that was my expectation. Wasn't it yours?

But no. They had no flippin' clue about Gillick's mindset, nor Valentine's. It was all a smoke dream. Then they're going after Theo Epstein, DePodesta's identical cousin? Then one after another senior baseball executive finds something, anything better to do than to come to work for what used to be a respected baseball franchise. I mean--Hunsicker would rather work for Tampa Bay? He doesn't even want to interview? If Bud Selig has his way, the Tampa Bay franchise will shut down in a couple of years!

I rely on my own judgement of the McCourts. You're right--I had far less problems with him when it was DePodesta and his team, along with Logan White, in charge of baseball. So my seething hatred for him now can fairly be called hypocritical. And that's true for a lot of other posters here.

But it should concern you that Gillick, Hunsicker, Hart, Bowden, Valentine and other baseball luminaries from both sides of the sabre-debate, would rather rearrange their sock drawer than come in and work for the Dodgers. That's an indication to me that baseball insiders think there's something seriously wrong here. I take my cue from that.

2005-11-12 20:04:38
167.   dzzrtRatt
166 the third graf should read: "I don't rely on my own judgement of the McCourts."
2005-11-12 20:23:33
168.   popup
#165, Fallout I agree. Old school Dodger fans are so dumb that they are unable to formulate opinions on their own. What an arrogant remark. As much as people who post here decry Plaschke, there are a few who sure seem to adopt his way of thinking if not his actual thoughts.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-12 20:27:22
169.   das411
166 - If Bud Selig has his way, the Tampa Bay franchise will shut down in a couple of years!

This will be even more true after they win the AL East in 2006 and the tv ratings during the playoffs make this year's look like 2004's.

2005-11-12 20:30:53
170.   das411
*actually I should have said 2003's, Cubs + Bosox + Yankees probably beat "The Phantom NLCS" last year
2005-11-12 20:39:22
171.   tjshere
Worst word in the English language = "irregardless".
2005-11-12 21:04:54
172.   Thomas Naccarato
98 Molokai,
When the McCourt's first took over, I will be the first to admit that I was more positive about the take-over, just to get FOX out of there. I even would argue with the great Rob McMillan about it, saying, "Give em' a chance Rob. They deserve a chance..."

There was never any doubt in my mind that there was going to be some change over in the team and its front office staff. New owners do that all the time, they want to bring in "their" people. I would often remind this to Rob on several occasions during the early spring of 2004.

I told Rob, "Listen, if McCourt does all of the bad things you think he is going to do, I'll be the first to say I was wrong and I'll be right there with you calling for him to sell the team and get out of town. Lets give the man a chance.."

Rob, if you are reading this, I was wrong....

Now, much like Fallout, I'm more of a old fan, and one that doesn't have the time to memorize sabr numbers as if they were my social security number, drivers license, Mastercard, Visa and American Express account numbers. I just like to watch baseball and let myself get carried away in the true spirit of the game. I like to go to games by myself most of the time, simply because when I go to Dodger Stadium I want to be able to check my regular life in at the door, get my two D-Dogs without the bun and load them up with Spicy Brown Mustard, Onions, & Relish and then nosh away to the sounds of Nancy B. rattling away on the keyboard.

The game starts, I'm entranced and hopefully the Dodgers win. It just doesn't get any better then that for me.

I just like being there listening to the organ music, seeing the kids with amazement on their faces that their really in Dodger Stadium, while reliving the memories of my youth when I used to feel exactly the same way. In fact, I still think I do feel exactly like that every time I anxiously come in through the back way and see the stadium in its most irradiant form in the last hours of the day light.

It's truly my favorite place on earth.

So when the McCourt's tell me, make that promise me--a paying customer--that they are going do whatever it's going to take to make the team a winner, I had to buy into that simply because that's what good Dodger fans do. We support the team. But when they seem to be on some insane crusade to run the team into the ground nose first, well, I have to tell you it really pisses me off. I was sold a completely different bill of goods on this deal. I feel they lied to me and have conned me out of my money.

So, as much as I hate to do it, I'm going to still support our boob con-artist owner and his wife and kids and watch them dismantle every aspect of the stadium AND THE TEAM that I had come to know and love and respect while bitching and moaning about it till they finally leave on an old train rail, covered in tar and feathers.

Probably by that time the stadium will be ready to be torn down for some white architecturally undecipherable Donald Sterling-like condos that look like they bought on time from a Rose Hills or Forest Lawn used cript sale. Hopefully by that time Shannen will be so pissed-off by the money the McCourt's made off of her by selling the rights to a sex tape of her and Drew that she will cast a spell on the entire McCourt family and wish them into the cornfield.

You see, they may be boobs, but they're our boobs. We better get used to it. They didn't get the name, "Da Bums" for nothing.

2005-11-12 21:09:26
173.   Thomas Naccarato
I echo the comments of DssrtRatt & Stan.
2005-11-12 21:37:17
174.   Steve
I'm more of a old fan, and one that doesn't have the time to memorize sabr numbers as if they were my social security number, drivers license, Mastercard, Visa and American Express account numbers.

Because after all, this is such an original thought.

2005-11-12 21:43:19
175.   Steve
159-160 - seems like any deal shorter than the other would be a better deal if comparing the two.
2005-11-12 21:48:19
176.   Linkmeister
Ouch. In the Nov. 14 issue of SI, Verducci leads the Scorecard section with a discussion of Epstein's departure from the Red Sox (John Henry's a passive owner, Lucchino has become a profit maximizer and needs big name trades this off season, while Theo wanted to tweak). He suggests Epstein will just sit or take a consulting job. Buried toward the end is this line:

"Forget the Dodgers, whose palace unrest puts Boston's to shame."

2005-11-12 21:52:29
177.   Thomas Naccarato
Hey, I make no excuses for who I am! I know you hate it, but I'm not going anywhere! Go ahead, rip away! :)
2005-11-12 21:57:36
178.   Steve
Ah yes. The gratuitous and unwarranted rip, followed by the Poor Steve is being mean to me, so embarrassingly turned to in the past. I'm relieved that you are at least not going to make excuses for it.
2005-11-12 21:57:52
179.   Vishal
[171] irregardless is not a real word.

and i'm no grammar expert, but i always figured that you use "whom" when the person you're talking about is an object; "for whom", "to whom", etc...

that's why it's "guess who's coming to dinner" (where "who" is the subject committing the action) and "for whom the bell tolls" (the bell is doing the tolling, and "whom" is the object). or say, on the phone: "to whom am i speaking?" (i'm doing the speaking, "whom" is the object of my speech)

i didn't bother looking this up though, so i might be wrong.

2005-11-12 21:59:39
180.   Steve
Is towards a real word?
2005-11-12 22:03:17
181.   Vishal
yeah, i think you can use either toward or towards. both are acceptable.
2005-11-12 22:05:37
182.   Steve
I had learned from some source that towards was not a real word, but then I noticed that C.S. Lewis uses it constantly. If he does it, it's good enough for me.
2005-11-12 22:09:20
183.   Vishal
i looked it up and apparently it's pretty much just based on dialect. the british tend to use towards, and americans tend to use toward. personally, i use either one depending on mood and what i think sounds better in any given situation.
2005-11-12 22:12:04
184.   Vishal
there was a really good article on slate recently (which i don't particularly agree with) about the use of the word "literally".

http://www.slate.com/id/2129105/

if you read the article, i'm with ambrose bierce on this one:

"It is bad enough to exaggerate, but to affirm the truth of the exaggeration is intolerable."

2005-11-12 22:29:04
185.   molokai
My apologies for the use of "old school Dodger fan" in my rant. I consider myself an old school Dodger fan and have been a fan for 40 years. I needed a category for the paragraph that followed and I mistakenly picked a heading that couldn't have been more wrong and evidently offended some posters that I have the greatest respect for. I just can't come up with a good category for those who blindly believe whatever the LA Times tells them.

I should just stick to providing info and leave the editorializing to those who are better at it but my nature doesn't allow it.

2005-11-12 22:31:30
186.   Thomas Naccarato
No offense was taken what-so-ever.
2005-11-12 22:42:58
187.   bokonon42
172- I'd like to put this delicately: I'm having trouble believing that you've memorized your Amex number. Could be true, but unless you reproduce it here, complete with expiration date, I'm afraid I'm going to have to call you a liar. Now, nobody wants that; I don't want that. But it's really the only way, I think.
2005-11-12 22:45:18
188.   molokai
166
It concerns me greatly, but it just seems to me if that we were so upset that Depo only got two years, why don't the McCourt's get the same pass.
2005-11-12 22:52:15
189.   Vishal
[166]/[172] i don't think it really means anything, because as we know from religion, sometimes even recent converts can be the most zealous, but i've been a fan of the dodgers since my tee-ball days (age 5 or 6?). and i guess i'm also a fan of modern baseball thought, as i've been exposed to it over the past few years. i don't know what "school" that places me in, but i definitely get really offended when anyone tries to suggest that i am more a "philosophy fan" than a dodger fan. anyway, i don't know if i speak for anyone else, but i suspected from the outset, when he bought the team, that mccourt was at least a little bit on the clueless and underaffluent side, but as long as he was willing to give depodesta, who seemed to have a decent plan, the time, resources, and rope to do the job, i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. the way he the organization has been acting since before the season began, and up to and including the tracy mess, the bradley mess, and the depodesta mess and since, has all but removed that doubt. it's pretty plain that the organization is in a constant state of chaos and is rudderless in the wind. if they get fortunate and find some way to stay on course, great. but my level of trust is at an all time low.
2005-11-12 22:55:05
190.   Vishal
[187] what would reproducing it prove? this is the internet. he could just whip the card out and type them in by looking. either way you'd have to take him at his word. :)
2005-11-12 22:58:05
191.   Eric L
188 I understand where you are coming from.

If many of the DePo supporters (myself included) were willing to cut DePo a bit of slack for his "mistakes", then they should afford the same courtesy to the McCourts.

Honestly, I am disappointed in the firing of DePo. I'm more concerned (to rip off 166) that the decision to fire DePo was hasty without a solid plan in place to replace him.

2005-11-12 22:59:48
192.   alex 7
molokai, come on now : ) With Depo we at least knew what he was doing. We saw the players that came in, we saw which players left, we saw the prospects remain untouched, and we saw that we were improving in most aspects except DL time by the players.

With the McCourts, there hasn't been any evidence of a plan other than knee-jerk reactions. Now if Depo had fired Logan White, then fired the replacement within two years, and fired secretaries left and right, and dabbled with double-speak, and had absolutely no baseball-related success on his resume, then we could wonder what the difference between the two is.

2005-11-12 23:00:08
193.   bokonon42
190- Good point. Mr. Nacarrato, please send my your credit cards, then, once I recieve them, publish the numbers, from memory, here.
2005-11-12 23:07:28
194.   alex 7
The last sentence is probably my main point Eric. When Depo made questionable moves ("the trade", extending Perez) we at least knew what the thought process was, even if we didn't agree.

But not only do we not know what the thought process is with the McCourts, the scarier thing is that it honestly seems like there may not be a cognizant one.

2005-11-12 23:12:07
195.   Steve
But not only do we not know what the thought process is with the McCourts, the scarier thing is that it honestly seems like there may not be a cognizant one.

I think that is the thread tying everyone together.

2005-11-12 23:12:47
196.   bokonon42
Naccarato, though. Sorry about that. By the way, are you Steve's dentist? Because if so, then I totally understand where he's coming from.
2005-11-12 23:41:58
197.   dzzrtRatt
188 Very simply, it's how he did it.

Up until the Saturday Afternoon Massacre, the main weird thing I noticed about McCourt was all the PR people coming and going. That's generally a bad sign in any exec, but since it had nothing to do with baseball, I minimized it. But when that same tendency bit the baseball side of the business, then I had to pay attention.

From the clueless, platitude-spouting press conference, to the misdirection on DePodesta's successor, to the shameless sucking up of Lasorda, to the sense that the move was dictated by a yearning to please the shallowest commentators in the media, I judge the McCourts' character to be weak, insecure, narcissistic and passive-aggressive.

Plus, they are unqualified; as that great "Management by Baseball" series said, they are trying to transfer the culture and practices of one business into another, entirely different kind of business. That just seems dumb.

Then you look back at things that others complained about, but I just let slide, like the overleveraging of the purchase of the team in the first place. The unceremonious dumping of not just Dan Evans, but also Bob Graziano and Kris Rone, who were "heart and soul" people for the Dodgers, and incidentally very good at their jobs. At the time, sure, "they have a right to put in their own people." I bought that. But basically Graziano's been replaced by Mrs. McCourt, and Rone by a guy McCourt fired in less than a year, and then by his astrophysicist son. That's not a step down in quality. That's falling into a mine shaft.

In reviewing all of this, quite frankly, I can't come up with anything McCourt's done right. DePodesta, by comparison, was far from perfect, but he did some things right, and surely gets at least a little of the credit for '04, and also for not trading away the future. His record warranted more time. McCourt's does not; but since he can't fire himself, he'll fire everybody else. That's why all the PR firms and personnel. That revolving door ain't about to stop. And that's why Gerry Hunsicker would rather work for Tampa Bay than LA.

2005-11-13 00:00:15
198.   slackfarmer
197 I agree with you and others who take issue with the way McCourt fired Depo and otherwise mismanaged the club. McCourt's procedural errors are numerous.

But I'm more concerned about the substance – Depo. I'm a stats/moneyball/new school (pick your cliché) baseball fan (even though I've been a Dodger fan for over 30 years). I have a lot of faith in Depo. He did a decent job as GM so far and, with experience, I think he would have done better. Unfortunately we will see this with a different club rather than the Dodgers. Most of the potential replacements are big steps down, and some are even worse.

2005-11-13 00:15:41
199.   das411
I know I'm a couple days late on the weird movie discussion, but has anybody on here seen "The Skeleton Key"? I went out to see that movie this evening and CANNOT stop thinking about the way it ended...

197 - Don't you have to give him some credit for eating the Green salary, taking on $$ for Finley et al (possibly including the Unit and Charles Johnson) at the deadline last year, and the signings of Lowe, Drew, and Kent? The team could have just gone into all-out fire sale mode (see 2001, Kansas City Royals) but those moves were definitely made with an eye on winning in '05-07, no?

2005-11-13 00:43:08
200.   trainwreck
199-
I have not seen it but when it came out in theaters and my friend saw it and I was able to predict the ending based off the commercials so I know the ending.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-11-13 00:58:05
201.   Steve
Dan Evans reads PECOTA that sabr-loving bastard.
2005-11-13 01:27:46
202.   Bob Timmermann
I enjoyed the concert immensely! As a bonus, it was the first time I ever heard "This Land is Your Land" sung with the rarely heard "Commie" verse.
2005-11-13 01:34:36
203.   Eric L
But not only do we not know what the thought process is with the McCourts, the scarier thing is that it honestly seems like there may not be a cognizant one.

Not that I would have been happy with the firing, but I think even a "Paul and I didn't see eye to eye on the managerial search" statement would have made the medicine go down a little easier.

I know the horse has beaten to death on here, but the "results" statement still boggles my mind.

And that's why Gerry Hunsicker would rather work for Tampa Bay than LA.

Even worse, Hunsicker decided to work as the #2 guy in Tampa Bay rather than running the show in LA (though, who knows how much he would actually run the show here). After resigning in Houston because of problems with the owner, he probably wasn't willing to walk into a similar situation in LA.

2005-11-13 01:52:02
204.   Strike4
In 62, JW thought the Dodgers aren't undervalued, and McCourt would only sell if he needs the money or the business starts losing money. Actually, to consider selling he only needs to believe that the business will be worth less in the future, as in "Sheesh, I'd better get out now." I think there's a good chance the revenue streams and valuation could drop big time due to increased competition from the Angels as well as reduced fan association with the Dodgers due to brand damage. He may want to think hard about the date of Vin Scully's retirement too, and sell before then. When he departs (Please God keep him healthy), it will hurt any owner's value alot.

I think McCourt has shown consistency since day one here, and it's been about personnel cost reductions. Bringing in Depodesta was mostly to have a Moneyball cover theme supporting a drastically lower payroll. The recent search for a celebrity g.m. has been hypocritical in that he probably hasn't offered any market rate contracts (no hard data for this; must make me an old school Dodger fan. I think I'd refer Molokai more to a King Lear rant than Henry V). I hope McCourt hires Ng, and he can triumphantly claim he has searched the world, and a Dodger Family member is tops. Although it's really about her own inexpensiveness, another available cover theme, and her commitment to keeping a low payroll. If we're lucky, she'll actually be good at the job.

2005-11-13 06:51:16
205.   Felton
I don't know if this is old news, but it seems to me that the main reason for trading Bradley is to let Drew play cf, which would take stop and start stress off of Drew's knee:

Outfielder Johnny Damon is now on the Dodgers radar screen, says the Riverside Press Enterprise.

Talented and troubled Milton Bradley has drawn trade interest from the A's, Cubs, Nationals, Pirates and Tigers, says the New York Daily News.

2005-11-13 07:34:32
206.   Vishal
tony jackson says 1)the frontrunner is now colletti, 2) it will probably be either ng or colletti 3) we should know "no later than tuesday".

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_3210465

i don't know anything about colletti. should i be upset?

2005-11-13 07:49:36
207.   D4P
206
Probably.
2005-11-13 08:44:04
208.   molokai
Why waste the energy in being upset until a decision is made. Then you'll have plenty of time to learn about the choice and make an informed decision to be upset or not.
2005-11-13 08:50:20
209.   Steve
The Times' love-hate relationship with Frank McCourt continues. It says that "Frank McCourt's Latest Memoir is His Best."
2005-11-13 09:01:05
210.   molokai
Just curious - for those who think the Glaus contract is terrible and don't want the Dodgers to take on his contract do you also feel the JD Drew contract is sensible and your happy he is already under contract to the Dodgers? They are both high risk, high reward at a high price.
FYI - Glaus pulled in 23 win shares in 2005. Aybar in a month and 1/2 pulled in 6. Konerko the man about to sign the 4 year 50 million deal with somebody pulled in 24. JD's high was 31 in his walk year.
2005-11-13 10:01:38
211.   molokai
204
I don't understand comments like that. McCourt wouldn't have approved the silly money contracts of Drew/Lowe/O Perez and the 20 million extension to Gagne and the extension to Penny if he wanted a moneyball cover as he cut payroll. The facts fly in the face of the hyperbole.
2005-11-13 10:02:45
212.   alex 7
Yeah molokai, I'm not too sure why the Glaus contract is scaring people off so much. Although honestly I can't imagine McCourt dishing out the much money.

Paying Glaus an average of $11 million over the next 3 years (or possibly less depending on the market and if AZ sends cash along) for a consistent .850 OPS can't be the end of the world.
-He averaged 157 games a season outside his two injured years in Anaheim.
-At 29 he wouldn't project as a decline candidate.
-While LaRoche should make it to Los Angeles by 2007, he likely won't be a differnce maker until 2008 when Glaus' contract expires. -Glaus could be traded by L.A. by then.
-There's nothing close at 3B in the free agent market to Glaus' hitting talent.
-As a salary dump the DBacks might not ask for that much.

All that said, it would seem strange for Arizona and their new economist GM to make a deal like this within their own division.

2005-11-13 10:05:15
213.   alex 7
If Kent is traded for pitching, then Perez / Aybar learn to play middle IF and a big bat at 3B should be obtained.

How bad do those two guys project at 2B / SS? Someone else had a better view of them the last few years I'm sure.

2005-11-13 10:08:12
214.   willhite
206 -

Colletti is the definite front runner because he spent a long time in the Cubs PR department before going to the Giants. We all know how McCourt loves a good PR guy.

2005-11-13 10:14:41
215.   D4P
Depo fired because of personality, not moves???

"The dysfunctional Dodgers still don't have a manager or GM, as owner Frank McCourt is much more adept at firing than hiring. The problem, Dodgers people say, is that his wife, Jamie, is ruining, er, running things.

"McCourt is telling folks that Paul DePodesta was axed not because he didn't like his moves but because McCourt's personality coach couldn't mold DePodesta. When McCourt noticed DePodesta interacting with only two Dodgers employees out of 70 at a recent organization function, that was it. And oh, yes - as reported weeks ago here, Mrs. McCourt disliked DePodesta."

http://tinyurl.com/9cxr9

2005-11-13 11:21:16
216.   dzzrtRatt
215 Gee, lots of fascinating tidbits in that Newsday column. If any of them are true.

First: McCourt made DePodesta work with a "personality coach"? Whoah. Is that a well-paying profession? Kudos to the MSM reporter who 'outs' the personality coach.

Second: McCourt alienated Valentine--no surprise there--but by giving him a detailed baseball quiz, which included questions about 'when to hit and run'???? And Lasorda let this happen without blabbing to Plaschke?

Third: If Ng is hired, her first choice for manager is Terry Collins?

Fourth: "If Victor Diaz...worked like Jose Reyes, he'd be another Manny Ramirez"?

Anyway, caveat emptor.

P.S. 199 Do you mean by "him" McCourt? Those were DePodesta's decisions to make. Obviously, McCourt had to be consulted; he has the checkbook. I guess I was referring to decisions clearly in McCourt's in-basket, not one of his subordinates'.

2005-11-13 11:22:06
217.   alex 7
I don't even want to know if that story is true. Why does it have to be my team? Just hire Ng, take the hit, and move on. Though taking the hit is what they're trying to avoid, so I doubt they'll hire someone that isn't a complete 180 from Depo.

If only the A's played in a nicer stadium.

2005-11-13 11:23:12
218.   Fallout
197. dzzrtRatt
I judge the McCourts' character to be weak, insecure, narcissistic and passive-aggressive.

That seems pretty accurate to me too. Maybe add bold but weak, self conscious.

You have to ask yourself what kind of person would allow themselves to get pumped up by Lasorda? The McCourts like to have their egos fed and their is no one better than Tommy to do that. I'm sure that when they come out of a meeting together that they are not only covered with BS, they have also digested it.

2005-11-13 11:24:44
219.   D4P
216
Regarding the "personality coach": I wasn't sure if there really WAS a personality coach, or if the author was being somewhat facetious.
2005-11-13 11:26:28
220.   alex 7
We're supposed to believe that McCourt knows when it's a good time to hit and run and when it isn't? Is he running this quiz through Depo's stolen software?
2005-11-13 11:29:35
221.   dzzrtRatt
206 Not to suggest I'm the king of PC, but it seems like if your only two candidates are Ng and Colletti, you hire Ng. The fact that (as Tony Jackson suggests) Colletti once signed Orel Hershiser isn't really a added qualification. (Hershiser, according to this piece, is already selected as manager.)

Nor is Colletti's supposed history with a mid-size budget. Where has Ng earned a reputation as a free-spender? Is it her shoes?

One question I'd ask Colletti is: Was it your idea to start the 2005 season with the oldest outfield in baseball history?

2005-11-13 11:30:05
222.   Vishal
ah, the plot thickens. this is growing more hilarious by the day.
2005-11-13 11:32:38
223.   dzzrtRatt
202 What concert was that? Paul McCartney?
2005-11-13 11:35:39
224.   dzzrtRatt
Has anyone mentioned how astonishing it is that only one major league player served in Vietnam?

Many major leaguers served in Korea, including (IIRC) Ted Williams. What a societal change that represents in a mere 15 years or so.

2005-11-13 11:40:20
225.   D4P
222
I too find it humorous. If you can't laugh at this stuff you'll go crazy.
2005-11-13 11:44:29
226.   Bob Timmermann
223

See comment 131

2005-11-13 11:48:30
227.   dzzrtRatt
Sounds great. Who sang the "Commie verse"?

Lyle Lovett has a great 2-CD of songs written by Texas songwriters, "Step Inside This House." He does tunes by Guy Clark, Townes Van Zandt, a bunch of others. I like him interpreting songs better than as a writer.

2005-11-13 11:53:56
228.   D4P
Did Elmer Dessens leave because he thought he could get more money elsewhere, or did he just not want to come back? I have a hard time believing the Dodgers wouldn't have matched this kind of offer.

The Rockies made a two-year offer, believed to be worth $2.5 million, to free agent Elmer Dessens yesterday.
Kansas City may also be willing to offer him a two-year deal. The Rockies are trying hard to sign both Dessens and Brian Meadows, but they'd prefer to put off the deals until after the arbitration deadline in December. Nov. 13 - 1:03 pm et
- Rotoworld

2005-11-13 12:02:54
229.   King of the Hobos
Why are they waiting until after the arbitration deadline? We're going to offer Dessens arbitration, especially knowing that the Rockies have a contract out there that's better than what Dessens would get in arbitration. Letting him stay on the market will slowly increase his asking price
2005-11-13 12:05:47
230.   Bob Timmermann
227
Lyle Lovett sang the "Commie" verse.
2005-11-13 12:07:10
231.   Bob Timmermann
That Newsday story made it look like Paul DePodesta was fired for being shy.
2005-11-13 12:12:21
232.   D4P
231
"Shy" is probably the optimistic interpretation. "Snooty," "Standoffish," and "Aloof" are less optimistic interpretations.
2005-11-13 12:30:07
233.   gvette
224--Reserve units and National Guard units were reactivated for Korea; that's why WWII vets like Ted Williams and Jerry Coleman got recalled for combat duty.

For Vietnam, most major leaguers were stashed in National Guard units, and usually missed several weekends a season due to Guard duty, (Dodgers included Sutton and Lefebvre).

But,a lot of (then) minor leaguers did serve on active duty, and Vietnam vets who later became major leaguers include Gary Maddox, and Al Bumbry. I read somewhere that former Dodger/Pirate Rocky Nelson also served.

2005-11-13 12:42:00
234.   Bob Timmermann
If you put me in to a room with 70 coworkers, I would likely only be speaking to 2 or 3 of them. I'm very quiet. I don't make a lot of eye contact.

Fortunately, I don't get evaluated on this.

2005-11-13 12:45:51
235.   das411
216 - Yes, this "him" meant McCourt. It just seems to me that the owner of a team that won the divison, then added a starter from the WS champions as well as a HOF-caliber 2B, doesn't quite deserve an "I can't come up with anything McCourt's done right"
2005-11-13 12:47:02
236.   D4P
234
I'm the same way. If the story is true, I would guess that that "Jamie doesn't like Depo" had more to do with the firing than the "Depo only interacted with a few people in the room," unless of course he rudely ignored the other 67 people in the room. It's one thing to be shy, and another to be rude.
2005-11-13 12:51:39
237.   King of the Hobos
The last time I ended up with many peers in one area for a special event, I talked to exactly one, and that person asked when something would happen and left. I don't talk much
2005-11-13 12:54:22
238.   Bob Timmermann
There's always a difference in how people perceive shy people. It is very easy to view them as aloof or rude. I think a lot of people think that of me at first. I'm trying to work on these skills. One of my sisters-in-law thought I didn't like her because I never looked her in the eye for about a year.
2005-11-13 12:54:35
239.   dzzrtRatt
Hadn't DePodesta just finished making presentations at the team organizational meetings when McCourt lowered the boom?

Do you think he got fired because he isn't good at making a PowerPoint presentation?

2005-11-13 12:54:38
240.   fanerman
234, 237

Maybe the reason we all like DePo is because we're all shy, too... or aloof.

2005-11-13 12:54:45
241.   razzle nugent
Whenever I hear of an introvert/extrovert situation, I always think of this article:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauch

I like to read it for a good laugh every once in a while.

2005-11-13 12:55:34
242.   D4P
234,237
Hmmm...we don't talk much...we spend a lot of time on the computer...Depo doesn't talk much...he spends a lot of time on the computer...Does that mean we're (dare I say it)...COMPUTER GEEKS?
2005-11-13 12:56:14
243.   dzzrtRatt
238 This character trait is now the subject of an ad campaign for a pharmaceutical product. Apparently, corporate America is trying to stamp out shyness.
2005-11-13 13:00:10
244.   D4P
241
Great article, razzle.

BTW: According to the Myers-Briggs test, I'm an ISTJ.

2005-11-13 13:01:35
245.   Bob Timmermann
What drug would allow people to become less shy? Other than alcohol or sodium pentathol?
2005-11-13 13:03:37
246.   D4P
245
I was thinking along the lines of Viagra...
2005-11-13 13:10:26
247.   fanerman
241 - Maybe Jamie McCourt should've read that article.
2005-11-13 13:14:57
248.   Bob Timmermann
So am I the only person watching the MLS Cup? It's being shown live from Pizza Hut Park in Frisco, TX. LA Galaxy vs. New England Revolution.

Then again, I also stayed up late watching a World Cup qualifier yesterday between Bahrain and Trinidad & Tobago.

2005-11-13 13:17:19
249.   King of the Hobos
According to a quick online Myers-Briggs based test, I'm an INTJ. Sounds about right I guess
2005-11-13 13:18:15
250.   dzzrtRatt
245 GlaxoSmithKline has a web site that was advertised on TV. Here's the tiny url:

http://tinyurl.com/9ht2x

But the actual URL is priceless: lifeiswaiting.com

I wasn't willing to fill out the form required to find out which pill they're pushing. By not mentioning any specific drug in the ad, they were able to make fantastic claims for it. The images onscreen were of people sitting off to the side while others had fun. Then, toward the end of the commercials, all the wallflowers were in with everyone else, having fun.

I didn't see DePodesta in the ad, but who knows. Maybe after this, he'll become a spokesman, like Nolan Ryan for Advil and Rafeal Palmeiro for Viagra.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-11-13 13:20:20
251.   D4P
249
I just took the test again and came out INTJ. I always alternate between ISTJ and INTJ.
2005-11-13 13:21:36
252.   molokai
OT:
The LA Times still has a crappy sports section but the front page on the Sunday section has a great article on elder abuse. Anyone who has elderly parents or family should read the article and take appropiate measures that these things don't happen to your loved ones or even your neighbors. Look out for each other.
2005-11-13 14:07:33
253.   Bob Timmermann
ESPN is reporting that Joe Maddon (Angels bench coach) is getting the Tampa Bay managerial job.

Good luck to him.

2005-11-13 14:09:45
254.   Fallout
246. D4P

Would that make him harder to get along with?

2005-11-13 14:11:03
255.   D4P
254
Ummm...
2005-11-13 14:35:20
256.   Bob Timmermann
Possible free agents available for the Dodgers to sign:

Rafael Palmeiro
Sammy Sosa

I think they'd both be popular choices wouldn't they?

2005-11-13 14:45:24
257.   D4P
256
I don't know. Have they interacted yet with Jamie in social situations?
2005-11-13 14:48:21
258.   bigcpa
256 I'm going to push the panic button early. Colletti will make a run at both and rid us of those pesky draft picks.
2005-11-13 14:56:11
259.   bokonon42
241- I clipped that article out when it was first published and sent it to my sister. She still thinks I was kidding: nobody's really like that. Some day the computer nerds will strike back against their chit-chatting oppressors. Man will that ever be sweet.
2005-11-13 14:56:46
260.   Fallout
1. Posted by Fallout
256. Bob Timmermann

I was thinking the same thing. After obtaining Palmero and Sosa you could also sign David Wells and or Kenny Rogers, either Jay Payton and or Carl Everett to complete the OF with Bradley. Then all you need is a malcontent for 3B and you're ready for 2006.(couldn't think of one)

The team on the field could then mirror the ownership.

2005-11-13 14:56:58
261.   sanchez101
So the McCourts are going to show their commitment to dodger myth and tradition by hiring a Giant AGM? This makes no sense, but I wouldnt expect anything more from Frank McCourt. All that hiring Colletti would mean is that a year or two from now we can expect him to be fired for not being a true dodger.
2005-11-13 15:01:39
262.   bokonon42
Anyway, it's stupid to fire somebody for being an introvert. There is a small population capable of being an MLB GM, just like there is a small population of capable MLB first basemen. Limiting your own pool of available talent means you'll overpay for what you get, and you may never get the very best.
2005-11-13 15:04:57
263.   Bob Timmermann
The Galaxy leads the Revolution 1-0 with about 15 minutes left in overtime.

No, it's not sudden death.

Get ready to start turning over cars in Carson.

2005-11-13 15:12:23
264.   bigcpa
261 Hopefully Colletti meets at least one of Plaschke's GM prerequisites: either visiting Dodger Stadium or having met Lasorda.
2005-11-13 15:26:43
265.   King of the Hobos
258 Supposedly, and I can't remember where I saw this, that fad is passe. I'm guessing Sabean et al. finally realized you can only do so well with a bunch of old guys
2005-11-13 15:33:24
266.   Bob Timmermann
The L.A. Galaxy has pulled off the double. The first team ever to win the Lamar Hunt Open Cup and the MLS Cup in the same year.

Break open the bubbly, it's time to celebrate.

Where will the victory parade be?

2005-11-13 16:22:23
267.   Uncle Miltie
The L.A. Galaxy has pulled off the double. The first team ever to win the Lamar Hunt Open Cup and the MLS Cup in the same year.
The what?

Where will the victory parade be?
I don't think there will be a parade. I'm sure they can walk into a bar and nobody will recognize them

Soccer gets about as much press as the WNBA.

2005-11-13 16:26:09
268.   molokai
AFL All-Stars

As voted on by the AFL managers:

Catchers
Jarrod Saltalamacchia ATL
Michael Nickeas TEX

OF
Andre Either OAK
Chris Denorfia CIN
Lastings Milledge NYM
Jarred Ball ARZ
Nick Markakis BAL

1B
Kendry Morales LAA
Garrett Jones MIN

2B
Howie Kendrick LAA
Dan Uggla ARZ

SS
Brandon Wood LAA
Stephen Drew ARZ

3B
Eric Duncan NYY
Corey Smith SD

LHP
Adam Loewen BAL
Glen Perksin MIN

RHP
Clint Nageotte SEA
Jamie Shields TB

Relief Pitcher:
Casey Daigle ARZ
T.J. Beam NYY

Yes, not a Dodger to be found.

2005-11-13 16:29:00
269.   Uncle Miltie
Where's Kemp? Were those guys really more producitve, or are they bigger name players?

I know who Either, Milledge, and Markakis are. Can somebody post all of the outfielders stats compared to Kemp's.

2005-11-13 16:31:18
270.   dzzrtRatt
268 Well, there goes their trade value. Someone break the bad news to McCourt: We're stuck with these stiffs. We might as well keep 'em around.
2005-11-13 16:37:46
271.   fanerman
All someone has to do is sell the idea that McCourt will be paying next to nothing for these "stiffs" to produce versus paying millions of millions for "big names." That has to appeal to him right?
2005-11-13 16:40:15
272.   King of the Hobos
Kemp only had the 6th best SLG and OPS (and a decent 10th OBP), and was better than Markakis and Ball in just about every aspect of the game, and was just as good as Milledge and Denorfia. Had his last game counted in the stats, he'd be 4th in SLG and 3rd in OPS (6th in OBP).

Also my "every aspect" bit includes the type of hits, stolen bases, and discipline, before you get on me for using only the 3 percentages

2005-11-13 16:56:50
273.   Bob Timmermann
I would argue that soccer gets a lot more press in L.A. than the WNBA because the Spanish language press rarely writes about the WNBA.

For those who care (both of you? or is that one too many), the Lamar Hunt Open Cup is the US equivalent of England's FA Cup. Pretty much any organized pro soccer team gets to play in a single-elimination tournament. The MLS teams get byes. But in theory, a bunch of guys playing in a semipro league in San Pedro could win the trophy, which has been around under different names since 1914.
The MLS Cup is just the champion of the bizarre MLS playoffs. The Galaxy actually had the 8th best record in the league. The first round is home and home and the next two are single elimination.

2005-11-13 17:01:12
274.   Uncle Miltie
the Lamar Hunt Open Cup is the US equivalent of England's FA Cup
I have no idea what that is either.

It's kind of funny; I played soccer in high school, but was never interested in professional soccer.

2005-11-13 17:05:56
275.   Joon
268 This is strange. Where did you find that list? I found the same list when I saw your post, but I remember seeing Kemp's name listed when the all-stars roster was first announced, so eventually I found the following list with 6 OF and the one with only 5 OF is now nowhere to be found.

"AFL postseason all-stars unveiled
Drew, Kemp lead seven Phoenix players named to team"
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/news/article.jsp?
ymd=20051111&content_id=33720&vkey=news_l119&fext=.jsp&sid=l119
or http://tinyurl.com/du3ml

2005-11-13 17:12:33
276.   Uncle Miltie
Lawler's law (Clippers are losing)
2005-11-13 17:14:12
277.   Bob Timmermann
274
It's kind of funny; I played soccer in high school, but was never interested in professional soccer.

You have distilled the problem with soccer's attempt to become even more popular than hockey.

Lots of participants, but few fans. Unlike baseball, which is facing declining participation among younger people in the US, yet is still growing its fan base.

2005-11-13 17:20:26
278.   D4P
277
Meanwhile, people are flocking to the tables and TVs to play and watch poker.
2005-11-13 17:21:57
279.   natepurcell
OT- SKOL VIKINGS!

ugliest game we ever won.

2005-11-13 17:24:50
280.   Bob Timmermann
The older folks around here Nate can tell you tales of some very ugly wins the Vikings got in the playoffs over the Rams.

Fran Tarkenton is on my list. The same one that has Russ Ortiz on it.

2005-11-13 17:24:54
281.   Uncle Miltie
277- sports I'd rather watch on TV/or attend than pro soccer
Baseball
Basketball/Hockey
College Basketball
College Football
The hot dog eating contest
The spelling bee
Pro Football
Women's Volleyball
Tennis
Billiards
Poker
Maybe golf

I'd watch soccer over arm wrestling, darts and the olympics

2005-11-13 17:26:36
282.   Bob Timmermann
You'd watch a spelling bee rather than the World Cup?

That's some serious dislike.

2005-11-13 17:29:24
283.   D4P
281
Women's pro beach volleyball should be high on every (straight) man's list.
2005-11-13 17:29:28
284.   Uncle Miltie
282- did you see the one where the kid pupils got large and he passed out. How can you miss something like that?
2005-11-13 17:34:49
285.   Steelyeri
I love Soccer. I started playing when I was about 10 and played through High School. It's really a shame that the country hasn't embraced Soccer, It's such a great sport. On the other hand, I'm glad to see that support is growing (albeit at a slow rate).

The Donovan trade worked out great for the Galaxy. I was conflicted when I first heard about it because I like Carlos Ruiz. I know Donnovan is a great player but I'm biased because I am Guatemalan. In the end I'm glad it worked out and I love watching Donnovan play. He's such a great player. It's funny that the new Guatemalan on the team scored the winning goal and was named MVP of the cup.

Getting over Ruiz has been much easier than I expected. I have been a Galaxy fan since the inception of the MLS, so watching them win has made all the difference.

2005-11-13 17:43:01
286.   Steelyeri
My list goes something like this...

Baseball/NFL
Soccer
Basketball
College Football
Tennis

2005-11-13 17:51:59
287.   dzzrtRatt
I have a relative who grew up in Europe. He came to the US for a visit during the World Cup, and got me to watch a game with him on TV. So I've learned to enjoy a World Cup game. Why that doesn't translate to any other soccer game, like MLS, I have no idea.

As of this year, college football has passed pro football on my list. It's right after baseball. Like with college basketball v. the NBA, they seem to play the game "right" at the college level, but with a lack of intensity at the pro level. It looks like what it is--a business deal.

2005-11-13 17:56:56
288.   D4P
287
I'm the same way. I'll watch World Cup soccer, but nothing else. Same goes for most olympic sports.
2005-11-13 18:01:17
289.   dzzrtRatt
Headline in this morning's NY Times:

"Relying on Computer, U.S. Seeks to Prove Iran's Nuclear Aims."

So that's where DePodesta turned up.

2005-11-13 18:38:49
290.   D4P
289
I half expected him to turn up in the LA river, after Jamie's thugs were finished with him.
2005-11-13 18:42:30
291.   Xeifrank
Just checking in... I see we still don't have a GM or manager. Perhaps we can just use an inflateable Tommy lasorda doll for both, oh wait, we already have one of those.
Well, I hope everyone is ready for some serious Santa Ana winds this tuesday.
vr, Xei
2005-11-13 18:43:31
292.   GoBears
288 It's the opposite for me. I can get into, say, Premier League Soccer, if I make a little investment into figuring out who these guys are, but I detest the World Cup, for two reasons. First, because of the huge disparity in team quality in WC soccer, and the importance of goal differentials, you get matches where the weaker team basically just packs 11 guys into the goal box, and tries to lose 1-0 instead of 8-2. Second, I can't stand the nationalism, from any team/country.

The Olympics are just nationalism plus a bunch of "sports" I don't care about. Olympic hockey is fun, but that's about it for me.

2005-11-13 18:45:46
293.   D4P
292
I don't care for the nationalism much either, although I find that it bothers me less these days now that I root against the US.
2005-11-13 18:52:47
294.   Steamer
293
Why would you root against the US?
2005-11-13 18:54:34
295.   D4P
294
Because the teams and individuals from the US are usually the favorites, and I prefer to root for underdogs. The US has won more than its share of medals, and it's fun to see other countries win some as well. Makes it more interesting for me.
2005-11-13 19:10:53
296.   Bob Timmermann
The World Baseball Classic is going to be odd. Baseball fans aren't using to rooting for national teams. It's going to be weird. I have a feeling that's it's going to be very quiet. I don't picture a lot of "USA! USA! USA!" chants.

The games in Asia will probably be more heated.

2005-11-13 19:36:16
297.   popup
I would prefer the World Cup baseball be held in November. Seems to me there are enough warm weather US cities and domes in Japan to make a November schedule feasible. Holding it in the spring will cause problems for players getting ready for the regular season.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-13 21:10:31
298.   Xeifrank
What I don't like about the Olympics is that 99% of the events are televised on a delayed basis. I can't stand watching sports that is not live. It's bad enough that the Lakers TV station won't show their eastern time zone games live. Watching the Olympics delayed is very very annoying to me. All the other countries I have visited in Europe or Asia show sporting events live even if the event is at 3AM local time. I know in the USA it's all about ratings and the advertisement dollar. :( vr, Xei
2005-11-13 21:34:50
299.   coachjpark
http://tinyurl.com/9os6m

So McCourt is going to raise ticket prices and then try to figure out if demand for Dodger baseball is elastic or inelastic? And he's doing this after firing his general manager for no apparent reason other than a vague appeal to returning to "Dodger Blue" tradition? And now we're interviewing the Giants Assistant GM to be our next GM? Do I think that Mr. McCourt is insane? Do I think that the actions by McCourt over the last month is indicative of the fact that we have no clue what we are doing as an organization? Do I long for the days when the most I had to complain about as a Dodger fan was Tracy's confusing on-field maneuvers coupled with his even more confusing grammar and syntax, or lack thereof? I most certainly do think that may perhaps be the case here.

2005-11-13 21:53:17
300.   fanerman
299 - Do I agree with your reminiscings about your longing for the days of yore? I can't say for sure, but I think I do.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-11-13 22:00:23
301.   molokai
Not sure if this has been posted before but here is the link for the interview that Kim Ng did with BP last year.
http://tinyurl.com/ao8ql

I think this is part of the free content so you shouldn't need to be a subscriber to read it.

2005-11-13 22:04:17
302.   molokai
Here is the Coletti interview part 1 and 2 that took place in Sept 2003
http://tinyurl.com/dhbtj
http://tinyurl.com/b4v56
2005-11-13 22:18:22
303.   popup
A game from the past:

It has been a long time since I have done one of these.

September 28, 1963 found the Dodgers at home for what fortunately was a meaningless game agsint the Philadelphia Phillies. The Dodgers had clinched the National League pennant and awaited the New York Yankees in the 1963 World Series.

Philadelphia scored twice in the first inning against Dodger starter Johnny Podres. The Dodgers tied the score in the botton of the first on a two run homerun by Tommy Davis.

The Phillies blew the game open with six runs in the second inning. Two more Philadlephia runs in the seventh and eighth gave Phillies starter Dennis Bennett all the runs he needed.

The Dodgers scored their final run of the night in the eighth inning. Roy Gleason, pinch hitting for Dodger relief pitcher Phil Ortega, reached Bennett for a one out double. Marv Breeding (how many Dodger fans beside me remember him?) popped to short for the second out. Lee Walls reached on an infield single to move Gleason to third. Gleason scored when Bill Skowron reached on an error by Richie Allen.

Gleason's pinch hitting appearance was his only at bat in the major leagues. The Phillies won the game 12-3, with Dennis Bennett getting a complete game victory. The Dodgers lost the following day to take a three game losing streak into the 1963 World Series.

Thanks to retrosheet.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-11-13 22:23:14
304.   King of the Hobos
"Our drafts have been pitching-heavy...We've seen this year how it's paid off, with (Jerome) Williams, (Jesse) Foppert, (Kevin) Correia, (Kurt) Ainsworth...Joe Nathan is one of our own, we used (Ryan) Hannaman to get (Sidney) Ponson, (Russ) Ortiz for (Damian) Moss."

Guess how many, a mere 2 years later, are still with the Giants. And Ortiz for Moss, I have no idea who made the better deal there

2005-11-13 22:27:03
305.   King of the Hobos
304 was not meant as a complaint about Coletti, it was just interesting (Correia is the only one left, unless the Giants made a trade recently).

Based on the 2nd day of the interview, he's not the best at identifying future pitching aces, but how many people can do that (with TINSTAAPP and whatnot)?

2005-11-13 22:37:13
306.   trainwreck
I am not to thrilled about Coletti after reading that interview. Did not look at splits, we just rather be more athletic, and then trying to say why Neifi Perez was a good signing. Whether the Giants are no longer going to get rid of draft picks they still LOVE the older veterans.
2005-11-13 22:38:09
307.   fanerman
"BP: What role does statistical research play in the Giants front office?

Colletti: It's part of what we take into consideration, along with scouting reports, and how someone uses their ability. How a player approaches the game, how he approaches life, far outweighs what the stat line looks like. When you see a minor league pitcher called up, you trust your development people and your scouts. How the pitcher's numbers were accumulated isn't as important as talent, makeup, how he pitches in certain situations.

You look at a pitcher like Maddux, in '87 he had an ugly statistical season, nothing that would tell you this pitcher was going to be one of best you'd see in 30, 40 years. Sometimes the numbers can just be misleading. Even Glavine, he had the same struggles. Just looking at his minor league numbers, especially in Richmond in '87, they weren't that good. It's in that type of evaluation where relying on stats can crush you. But I'm sure Atlanta knew he had the makeup and the ability to pitch, so they stuck with him, and it paid off."

That sounds like the straw man argument against stats. Using them out of context. Of course people do worse in their first year in the majors versus their last year in the minors. Both Glavine and Maddux pitched well enough in the minors to warrant at least a major league call-up.

I'd much rather have Ng than Coletti...

2005-11-13 22:42:49
308.   trainwreck
"How a player approaches the game, how he approaches life, far outweighs what the stat line looks like." Coletti
Goodnight... please hire Kim NG right now
2005-11-13 23:05:15
309.   Javier Gutierrez
"Even Glavine, he had the same struggles. Just looking at his minor league numbers, especially in Richmond in '87, they weren't that good."- Colletti

That year Glavine had a 3.35 ERA, 1.35WHIP, 95Ks to 56BB's as a 20 year old in AAA.

2005-11-13 23:11:48
310.   Xeifrank
Coletti is bad enough to lead someone like Steve to do some serious drinking. :)
vr, Xei
2005-11-13 23:27:56
311.   Uncle Miltie
This guy is an idiot. He makes Bowden sound appealing.

BP: Pac Bell Park is obviously a unique place to play. Do you try to tailor the team to the ballpark?

Colletti: We haven't thought about it much, except with pitching. We didn't think about it much at all initially. Then later we still didn't really offensively, but pitching-wise, we started thinking about who attacks hitters, and where their strengths might lie, relative to this park. Good power pitchers tend to do well everywhere, but even some of those guys--Schmidt for instance--have learned to use the ballpark to their advantage.

Moss was a pitcher that we thought would flourish due to the design of the park. The way we'd seen him pitch in Atlanta, we thought this was a pitcher who could keep you honest inside, but had enough stuff to get hitters out away. That's a great skill to have, if as a lefty you can get right-handed hitters out, by having them hit the outside pitch to right-center, the biggest part of the ballpark. This was a pitcher who sat at the feet of Glavine and Maddux, who spent a lot of time with those people, especially Tommy. We thought Damian would learn a lot from him, and that would help him in his career.

They like power pitchers, so they bring in Moss, the left handed Russ Ortiz? He doesn't seem to interested in offensive. He must be one of those "pitching and defense wins games" tyoe of people.

2005-11-14 00:55:07
312.   trainwreck
http://www.dailynews.com/dodgers/ci_3212568

Apparently we offered Theo GM Job and a stake in ownership. Wow, come on and take it Theo haha.

Remember kids...just say no to Ned Coletti.

2005-11-14 02:16:36
313.   dzzrtRatt
It doesn't sound like the Daily News reporter particularly believes his Theo story--he acknowledges his sources are all third- and fourth-hand--and he doesn't think it will amount to anything.

Henson at the Times says Ned's nosing into the lead.

2005-11-14 06:30:24
314.   Terry A
Something about the Coletti story made me think he's similar to Dan Evans -- "substance over style," a hard-nosed negotiator, etc.

This Theo development, though almost certainly folly and fiction, will be a fun diversion from the angst (or maybe "ngst"?) over McCourt's clumsy hiring processes.

2005-11-14 06:48:49
315.   molokai
Isn't it interesting that with all the GM openings, that Dan Evans is not involved in any of them or have I missed something?
2005-11-14 07:22:26
316.   King of the Hobos
Anyone want to read this?

http://tinyurl.com/aepsc

It's Colletti's book on the Cubs. It's fairly old (1985), but it might be interesting. The name doesn't make me comfortable, You Gotta Have Heart.

2005-11-14 07:30:07
317.   molokai
Interesting story on how current baseball executives have access to the BP Pecota numbers before it is released to the GP in 2006 Prospectus book. Take a look at the name at the end of article.
http://tinyurl.com/b5v82
2005-11-14 07:32:06
318.   molokai
Here is the tiny url link line for those have been wondering how tiny url works:
http://tinyurl.com/
2005-11-14 07:42:10
319.   Bob Timmermann
Coletti has four books. Two on the Cubs, one on the life of Jack Brickhouse and another on the Notre Dame-Purdue rivalry.
2005-11-14 08:18:11
320.   SiGeg
I found it interesting that Colletti was discussing batting order in that interview. I realize that he was asked about it by the interviewer, and that he talked about what "we" tried to do with Bonds and the batting order -- still, I was trying to imagine one of DePodesta's deputies (let alone DePodesta himself) last year discussing what "we" had been doing with the batting order, and I couldn't do it.
2005-11-14 08:34:03
321.   molokai
At the very least it seems the front office and the manager communicated.
2005-11-14 08:38:32
322.   Kayaker7
I found this quote from the Coletti interview interesting: "You look at a pitcher like Maddux, in '87 he had an ugly statistical season, nothing that would tell you this pitcher was going to be one of best you'd see in 30, 40 years."

I wonder what stats he was looking at. Probably the usual box stats like ERA, SO, W-L.

2005-11-14 08:43:27
323.   molokai
In 1987 Maddox posted an ERA of 5.42 and gave up 181 hits in 155 ip. No matter what numbers he was looking at Maddox blew in 87. The very next year when he made his jump he only gave up 230 hits in 249 inning and the ERA dropped to 3.09 and never finished above 3.96 until he left the Braves at age 38.
I'm curious what Grienke does in the year 2007. Maybe 2005 was his 1986 and 2006 will be his 1987 and then ...........
2005-11-14 08:51:32
324.   molokai
I'm on the Nate bandwagon for signing Giles to a 3 year deal. After dissecting the numbers Giles had one of his best years in 2005 and actually posted the highest win shares of his great career. Only Pujols/Manny/Arod/Tex had higher win shares in 2005. He is the only free agent hitter I'd target but it would be hard to convince him to sign with a team without a GM or manager and coming off a 71 win season. Hope springs eternal.
2005-11-14 08:57:34
325.   Kayaker7
323 I'm too lazy to look it up, but I wonder how he did with his peripheral numbers, like BABIP, SO/9, etc. In other words, was he as bad as his ERA, or were there signs that he was a bit unlucky as well?
2005-11-14 09:34:18
326.   D4P
318
Regarding tiny url - Don't know if this is common knowledge or not, but I only recently discovered that you can add a Tiny Url button to your browser's tool bar. This is quite convenient, in that when you push the button, it automatically converts the web address of whatever site you happen to be on at the time into a tiny url.
2005-11-14 09:41:51
327.   fanerman
324 - Glad to see you've joined the cause.

Theo please come! Hopefully your stake in ownership will somehow grow while the McCourts' stake will dwindle. Not that that has any reason to happen, but anybody not named McCourt owning part of the Dodgers has to be a good thing.

2005-11-14 09:47:31
328.   D4P
327
Let's add "anybody not named Murdoch" to that list.

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.