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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Fernando, Siempre
2005-12-07 10:02
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Fernando Valenzuela, a mere 45 years old, improved to 3-0 in the Mexican Pacific League with six innings of seven-hit, two-run, one-walk, one-strikeout ball Tuesday. Kevin Goldstein of Baseball America passed along the update. Getting it done with guile instead of strikeouts, Valenzuela's ERA is 3.72.

In other news ...

Jason Grabowski signed a one-year contract with Orix of the Japanese Pacific League, according to Tony Jackson of the Daily News, which has also reported details of Rafael Furcal's contract:

Once he passes the physical, Furcal will receive a $5 million signing bonus and a $4 million salary for 2006, but that salary jumps to $13 million for each of the following two seasons. Finally, he will receive a $4 million deferred payment in January 2009, by which time Furcal will be eligible for free agency again and might have played his last game in a Dodgers uniform.

Comments (414)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-12-07 10:28:54
1.   Marty
Out of curiosity, did Furcal get a no-trade option?
2005-12-07 10:41:04
2.   Rob M
Fernando for LOOGY!
2005-12-07 10:41:07
3.   Curtis Lowe
Padres traded Burroughs to TB for Brazelton.
2005-12-07 10:42:18
4.   Colorado Blue
I wonder how the "Grabowski Stare of Disbelief" will go over in Japan?
2005-12-07 10:44:34
5.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Interesting contract. The signing bonus and deferred payment total $9 million; how will those be included when judging the team's payroll at any given moment?
2005-12-07 10:46:41
6.   molokai
What a great life. Pitch in the winter still doing what you love, broadcast in the summer at Dodger stadium. Wouldn't Fernando make an excellent pitching coach?
2005-12-07 10:48:34
7.   KLV
From Ken Rosenthal:

Braves have traded catcher Johnny Estrada to Diamondbacks for right-handed relievers Lance Cormier and Oscar Villarreal.

2005-12-07 10:54:39
8.   Steve Saxs Sweaty Jockstrap
4-LOL, I can just picture Grabs blank stare when signing that contract to play in Japan.

That blank stare grabs has is classic. The light is on, but nothing is going on in between his gigantic ears.

2005-12-07 10:55:54
9.   dzzrtRatt
Many have cited the parts of Jayson Stark's ESPN.com piece from this morning that concern Colletti's latest moves and whether or not he thinks the Dodgers need another first baseman.

This part has been overlooked:

As Colletti looked at the Dodgers last season from his bleacher seat in Northern California, he saw a team that didn't remind him of the Dodgers he was used to waging war with.

"I didn't sense the same confidence and the same drive I saw in the Dodgers who were out there early in the year, or in 2004," he said. "They lacked that. And going forward, we need to help instill that."

I find this comforting. Even though it's a dead issue, I'm glad to see Colletti realizes there was something wrong with how Jim Tracy managed the team in '05.

The more I read about Grady Little, the more he seems like the anti-Tracy. Not necessarily in terms of strategy (show me one sabre-manager in the big leagues and I'll eat Google), but in terms of managing people. Which goes back to the issues of Milton Bradley, Hee Seop Choi and Jeff Kent. Little seems like the kind of guy who will play fair, unlike Tracy, which means Choi probably gets a real shot if he's still on the team. He also seems like the kind of guy you can trust, which I would see as important to Bradley and Kent both. He also seems like the kind of guy who makes rookies feel comfortable and supported--unlike Tracy, Davey Johnson, Tom Lasorda and many other managers who seemed to take pleasure in demolishing the psyches of certain hyped prospects.

2005-12-07 10:56:51
10.   Bob Timmermann
Do the Dodgers still have a working agreement with the Buffaloes or did it end when Orix and Kintetsu merged last year?

Orix and Kintetsu merging would be akin to having Tampa Bay and Kansas City merge. You are not going to be guaranteed better results by just taking the better players from each team.

2005-12-07 11:04:24
11.   dzzrtRatt
3 Brazelton for Burroughs is like trading a giant wedge of limburger cheese for a bucket of bat guano. How did those two GMs manage to get through a discussion of that deal without retching?
2005-12-07 11:05:49
12.   the OZ
7 - IF it is true that the Snakes got Estrada, is that a tacit admission that they got nothing of real value in the Finley trade?

Koyie Hill, Bill Murphy, and the third guy we sent over all seem to have been super-busts.

2005-12-07 11:07:02
13.   regfairfield
Did anyone else think this headline was just wrong?

"Lucky Pierre: Another Marlin escapes sinking ship"

2005-12-07 11:07:33
14.   Marty
11 I just did a spit take
2005-12-07 11:11:30
15.   scanderbeg
12 Once Javier Vasquez is traded, will the D-Backs then realize that they got nothing in the Randy Johnson trade, too?
2005-12-07 11:14:35
16.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
9 - Lasorda had how many Rookies of the Year under his watch?
Sutcliffe, Howe, Fernando, Sax, Karros, Piazza, Mondesi, Hollandsworth and Nomo.
Not bad for a guy who "demolished the psyches of certain hyped prospects."
2005-12-07 11:20:08
17.   Xeifrank
I guess Brian McCann is the man in Atlanta now with Estrada going bye-bye. Is it just me or does this years winter meetings seem more active than any in recent memory? Perhaps it's because of all the moves/rumors the Dodgers are doing. vr, Xei
2005-12-07 11:20:52
18.   underdog
I miss Fernando. Those were happy days, they were...

Anyway - I like the idea of Mueller. A good character guy, who I even liked when he was on the - gasp - Giants. And a short termer who wouldn't block the arrival of LaRoche or one of the other young 3B candidates.

Anyone catch the snippet of Peter Gammons on ESPN talking about Grady Little? It's on the web. Nice little bit about him. Liked everything until the end when he said, "Jim Fregosi is now the best manager out there not currently managing." >barf<

And now all of you anti-Pierres (I'm not a big fan either) can relax, since he's going to the Cubs. With A's and Cubs out of the picture for Bradley, it appears, does that mean he's more likely to stay now?

Curious and curiouser...

2005-12-07 11:21:45
19.   Bob Timmermann
I think the Marlins and Dodgers are making the winter meetings look busy. You have one team with a lot of good players wanting to get rid of them and another team with a dearth of good players trying to acquire them.

However, the Yankees have been surprisingly quiet.

2005-12-07 11:21:49
20.   LAT
What the D'Backs got for Johnson was to get out from under that contract.

On 570 this morning they pitched comments from Grady and Tommy like this: "From the man who left Pedro in too long to the man who got rid of him too soon."

Ouch

2005-12-07 11:23:05
21.   the OZ
15 -Well, they got a year of Vazquez plus they spun Navarro for Shawn Green. But it would seem they did not get equivalent value in return, at least based on RJ's face value at the time of the deal.

I don't think that any of the guys they got for Finley have made an impact at the ML level or were traded for anyone that did, or figures to in the future.

2005-12-07 11:23:54
22.   Shmueli4
Actually, I am watching Fred Claire on MLB.com radio and he just made that point comparing Little and himself
2005-12-07 11:24:05
23.   LAT
17. Yeah, this in contrast to the trading deadline last season which was the biggest non-event since Geraldo opened the Capone safe.
2005-12-07 11:24:49
24.   Bob Timmermann
In addition to getting out from under Randy Johnson's contract, Vazquez helped raise the D-Backs from the level of "incompetent" to "chance of being good at some time."
2005-12-07 11:25:59
25.   Rob M
16 good point. Then again, his relationship with Sutcliffe deteriorated, Howe fell apart emotionally, he destroyed Fernando's arm. He should get major kudos for Piazza.

Speaking of Fernando, I'd love to see someone do a major piece on how great he really was and how badly he was mishandled by Lasorda. He might have easily become 300 game winner - one of the all time greats - if Lasorda hadn't of ruined his arm. Can we get a pitch count tracker on his early career?

Does anyone remember the year Fernando didn't give up and earned run until the 9th inning of his 5th start - a home run to Tonny Gwynn that gave the Padres a 1-0 win? That dropped Fernando's record to 2-3, with a 0.21 ERA. He had lost the other 2 games to unearned runs. That Dodger team was all pitch, no hit, no field.

2005-12-07 11:27:27
26.   Penarol1916
11. I pity the fool who doesn't appreciate a nice stinky wedge of Limburger. Go back to your pre-sliced plastic packs of Velveeta.
2005-12-07 11:30:10
27.   Bob Timmermann
25
That was Fernando's 1985 season. The Dodgers that year didn't hit early, but they took off later once Pedro Guerrero moved to the outfield and started crushing the ball all over the place.
The team scored 682 runs.
2005-12-07 11:32:06
28.   Rob M
25 I just found it on retroseet - 1985.

He ended up 17-17 with a 2.45 ERA that year.

2005-12-07 11:34:42
29.   Bob Timmermann
But you should check out the record of a young Orel Hershiser in 1985.
2005-12-07 11:38:15
30.   Rob M
Random Fernando Data:
Complete Games, Starting as a 20 yo rookie in 1981 through 1987, after which he was never the same:

11
18
9
12
14
20
12

shutouts:
8
4
4
2
5
3
1

IP
192
285
257
261
272
269
251

He was brutalized.

2005-12-07 11:38:52
31.   D4P
29
The first game I ever saw at Dodger Stadium was a one-hit shutout by Hershiser in 1985 over the Pirates.
2005-12-07 11:39:18
32.   scanderbeg
202124 True, but they gave Shawn Green an extension for two more years. Both Johnson and Green are players who are on the down slope of their careers, but Green is over $5MM cheaper per season. Plus the Dodgers paid how much of last season's salary?
2005-12-07 11:39:35
33.   Vishal
[25] with fernando, at least the case can be made that it was the screwball which ruined his arm. that's a very high-stress pitch to throw so often.

with ramon and hershiser on the other hand, i think lasorda deserves a fair share of blame for wrecking their arms. almost makes you wonder if pedro would have ever become one of the best pitchers in history if he had stayed a dodger.

2005-12-07 11:39:49
34.   Bob Timmermann
Grady Little is the SECOND person to manage both the Dodgers and Red Sox.

The first was Patsy Donovan.

Donovan managed Brooklyn from 1906-08 and led the team to an overall record of 184-270 (.405). Those were some really bad Dodgers teams. He had two fifth place finishes and a seventh place finish.

Donovan managed Boston from 1910-11 and was 159-147 (.520) and finished 4th and 5th. The Red Sox would win the World Series in 1912 under manager Jake Stahl.

2005-12-07 11:41:21
35.   Rob M
Gooden was alright that summer too. Isn't that the year they battled one night in Chavez, Gooden went 9 scoreless, Fernando went 11 scoreless, neither got a decision?
2005-12-07 11:41:47
36.   scanderbeg
I meant 20, 21, and 24, not 202124
2005-12-07 11:43:07
37.   Bob Timmermann
9/6/1985
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B09060LAN1985.htm
2005-12-07 11:43:22
38.   Rob M
33 You could blame the scregie, or you could take another look at those numbers I posted. He logged a LOT of innings in his early 20's. That's almost a certain recipie for disaster.
2005-12-07 11:44:46
39.   Vishal
in [33] i meant clearly deserves. with fernando he probably does some blame too. on the other hand, if you've got great starting pitching and not much else, you win ballgames by letting your good guys pitch.
2005-12-07 11:44:57
40.   D4P
37
18 putouts that day for Greg Brock. His putout ability was significantly undervalued.
2005-12-07 11:45:30
41.   Rob M
37 Greg Brock, Mike Marshall, Mariano Duncan (he of the bunt double - saw that a few times), Kenny Landreaux. Those were the days.
2005-12-07 11:47:15
42.   LAT
From the Stark article:

"guys like Mueller who could have "character" stitched on the back of their shirts instead of their names"

Has there been any word on whether the Dodgers will be reversing one of stupider PR ideas and put the names back on the jerseys?
Seems to me that at the rate things are going they better just so management and Little know who is who.

2005-12-07 11:47:35
43.   Bob Timmermann
Better watch out with the 1985 talk, Jon will get all misty-eyed thinking about Pedro Guerrero's June.
2005-12-07 11:48:47
44.   Rob M
Fernando's arm was gone by age 26. Though he did throw a no-hitter a few years later in his crafty lefty incarnation.

Fernando was an amazing pitcher. He made great hitters look foolish, and he did it for 6 straight years. And he did it 4 times through a lineup. He threw hard, with movement, and location, and he changed speeds. He was awesome.

2005-12-07 11:49:00
45.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers will NOT have their names on the backs of their jerseys in 2006 because MLB doesn't allow major changes to uniforms for fewer than 2 years at a time.
2005-12-07 11:50:02
46.   Rob M
44 that should read 7 straight years.
2005-12-07 11:50:24
47.   GoBears
33 almost makes you wonder if pedro would have ever become one of the best pitchers in history if he had stayed a dodger.

I've often thought the same thing - that the best thing that ever happened to Pedro (and for those with a historical bent, to baseball as it concerns Pedro) was for him to get away from Lasorda. And luckily not run into Baker or Leyland along the way.

In that sense, maybe Lasorda was right - Pedro WAS too fragile to be a ML starter, Lasorda-style.

2005-12-07 11:51:34
48.   scanderbeg
BTW, what's this talk about needing a 3B? Does the name Norihiro Nakamura ring any bells?
2005-12-07 11:51:40
49.   LAT
45. UGH! no names was a very stipid idea. Whoever thought of it should be fired. . .oh yea, they were. Was that one or two PR people ago?
2005-12-07 11:52:06
50.   D4P
43
Me too. Pedro G. was my favorite player.

Ah, Back In The Good Old Days...

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-12-07 11:52:57
51.   sanchez101
38. at the very least, if you have a young screwball pitcher you should be even more warry of overworking him. The fact that he carried such a heavy workload, and was a screwballer, speaks even worse of Lasorda.
2005-12-07 11:54:19
52.   Rob M
1985

Fernando 17-17 2.45
Hershiser 19-3 2.03
Gooden 24-4 1.53

2005-12-07 11:54:28
53.   Vishal
[45] define "major". it's the exact same design, more or less, just without names on the back.
2005-12-07 11:55:16
54.   Bob Timmermann
Mike Marshall threw a screwball and pitched nearly every day in 1974, so there's something to be said for mechanics.
2005-12-07 11:56:13
55.   Bob Timmermann
53
I think "major" would be taking the names off. That makes the uniforms look significantly different.

As opposed to a "minor" change like wearing a commemorative patch.

2005-12-07 11:56:14
56.   Vishal
[35] if fernando went 17-17 that year, it would be unlikely that he got many no-decisions. probably one or two, at the most.
2005-12-07 11:56:58
57.   Shmueli4
Furcal press conference at 12 PT
2005-12-07 11:57:50
58.   Bob Timmermann
In 1985, the 11-inning duel with Gooden was Valenzuela's only no decision.

He was the anti-Odalis Perez.

2005-12-07 11:58:19
59.   Rob M
I have a Pedro / Orel memory. A spontaneous outing to the ballpark on a Friday. Game was almost sold out, got seats in the bleachers. Orel pitched a 1 hitter (infield single, Tony Gwynn). Pedro Guerrero drove in the only runs with a 2 run double. Final score, 2-0.

I may be conflating memories again. It could have been the same game referred to up in 31 v. the Pirates.

2005-12-07 12:01:08
60.   Telemachos
Am I the only guy who likes the no-name jerseys?
2005-12-07 12:02:17
61.   Rob M
59 found it - April 26, 1985. I remembered correctly!
2005-12-07 12:04:19
62.   dzzrtRatt
26 I was thinking of the limburger that appeared frequently in Warner Brothers' cartoons as the epitome of something that smells repulsive. Or, as the B-52s once sang:

"Why don't you dance with me?/
I'm not no Limburger."

2005-12-07 12:04:55
63.   Rob M
60 I like them too.
2005-12-07 12:05:50
64.   D4P
59,61
My Orel 1-hitter was on July 23rd. I also went to the game on July 24th, and had always remembered that Greg Brock hit a walk-off grand slam. But after just checking the box score, I see that he hit a grand-slam in the 6th inning of a 9-1 victory. That kinda ruins it for me.:(
2005-12-07 12:05:51
65.   Rob M
60 with baseball, it shouldn't matter. It's easy to recognize everyone. I don't like it with USC football.
2005-12-07 12:06:46
66.   Shmueli4
its on
2005-12-07 12:07:18
67.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers jerseys would look better if they used a bigger font for the numbers. They're too skinny.

As a UCLA fan, I have to admit this: Those USC home uniforms look really good.

2005-12-07 12:08:55
68.   Vishal
i think the pittsburgh pirates have the best uniforms in baseball.
2005-12-07 12:10:03
69.   Uncle Miltie
Why Furcal came to the Dodgers?
"They gave me good offer"
At least he's being honest
2005-12-07 12:10:11
70.   Shmueli4
Raffi basically said the Braves had 6 years to sign him and they knew he would be a FA and they did not - the dodgers gave me more money!
2005-12-07 12:10:37
71.   Shmueli4
Did you see Grady's face when he said Raffi would lead off - he looked soooo happy
2005-12-07 12:11:41
72.   Uncle Miltie
71- is there video of this?
2005-12-07 12:12:18
73.   Shmueli4
yes, it was on MLB.com - multimedia - radio
2005-12-07 12:13:23
74.   Shmueli4
Even easier - just go to Dodgers.com and it says watch news conference live (its over now)
2005-12-07 12:14:04
75.   fanerman
69 - Good for him. Nearly everybody's in it for the money, it's not like we hold it against players to get as much money as possible.

I think 2005 was a bad year to introduce the nameless jerseys because of the big roster makeover DePo did along with all the injuries that brought in replacement players. In a different year, it may have been better, but whatever. I prefer the jerseys with names but I don't care that much.

2005-12-07 12:16:00
76.   MartinBillingsley31
According to mlb radio and i read this on another board, the deals for soriano and abreau are dead.
2005-12-07 12:16:02
77.   molokai
The thing you have to remember about Fernando is that he might have kicked Tommy's butt if he took him out of to many games. The man wanted the win. You should ask him if he'd rather have a WS ring or have been able to pitch more effectively longer. The man was a baseball warrior not to be confused with a real warrior and it was an honor to watch him battle through adversity. Easily my all time favorite Dodger pitcher. I'm to young for Koufax so I'll leave him to Stan.
2005-12-07 12:16:51
78.   Shmueli4
Grady is on MLB - you can actually watch it
2005-12-07 12:17:23
79.   fanerman
Is the press conference over? I clicked the link (at least what I think the link is), and some guys are interviewing Little now..
2005-12-07 12:17:45
80.   Uncle Miltie
Is there a link for this? I can't find it..
2005-12-07 12:20:22
81.   Uncle Miltie
Nevermind I found it...
http://tinyurl.com/b8vbo
Towards the bottom of the page..click on BaseballChannel.TV

Grady doesn't know how to pronounce Izturis. He called him ITS-TUR-RIZ

He also called Furcal an "action maker"...ok.

2005-12-07 12:20:44
82.   fanerman
80 - At dodgers.com, there should be a link for the press conference under the headline on page 1 (out of 6, on the bottom right corner of the headline picture).

"Watch Rafael Furcal press conference, noon PT."

2005-12-07 12:21:08
83.   dzzrtRatt
Without names on the uniforms, how am I going to recognize all our new players, like Kirk Saarloos, Alfonso Soriano, Juan Pierre and Lastings Milledge?
2005-12-07 12:21:56
84.   fanerman
81 - Yeah, that's kind of annoying. He's not a very entertaining talker, but at least he didn't say, "Is Furcal an action maker? I don't know. Do I think so? Yes I do."
2005-12-07 12:23:17
85.   MartinBillingsley31
I'm starting to believe that we will start the season offensively like this:
c-navarro
1b-choi/seanz platoon
2b-kent
ss-furcal
3b-mueller or nomar, probably mueller
of-drew,bradley,cruz, midseason callup of guzman with bradley traded at deadline along with izturis.

And ned will start to focus on getting pitching now.

Maybe a bradley,izturis,antonio perez,aybar,jackson,and houlton trade at the deadline for an impact outfield bat to push cruz to the bench.

2005-12-07 12:24:16
86.   Jon Weisman
43 - "snif" ... don't mind me ... something in my eye.
2005-12-07 12:24:31
87.   fanerman
85 - If that's what Ned does, I'll breathe a big sigh of relief...
2005-12-07 12:26:27
88.   Colorado Blue
60 - Nope... I like 'em.
2005-12-07 12:26:52
89.   Xeifrank
Rotoworld.Com reporting a probable Mark Loretta for Mirabelli trade. Who would then likely play 2B for the Pads? Possible salary clearance for a larger offer for Hoffman? vr, Xei
2005-12-07 12:29:20
90.   MartinBillingsley31
87
It just makes so much sense to keep bradley till midseason, sign 2 free agent starting pitchers (morris and 1 of washburn,millwood,weaver) bring up guzman midseason for the outfield trade the guys i mentioned above for an impact outfield bat pushing cruz to the bench, and by midseason billingsley could be used if an injury occures.
2005-12-07 12:32:13
91.   dzzrtRatt
Fernando: I was standing in the streets of downtown Los Angeles watching the Dodgers' World Series victory parade. The big buzz during that parade was that Fernando didn't participate. I was talking to this Mexican-American kid, one of many lining the parade route. The kid looked to be about 11. He was disappointed, but he had a theory. "Everybody here loves Fernando. Maybe we love him too much."

If you were in LA in 1981, Fernando was like the Beatles in 1964. The whole city got swept up in it. The strike that year kind of put a damper on it, but only momentarily.

2005-12-07 12:32:32
92.   natepurcell
and if i was a padre fan, i would be really mad at that deal. deal our all star staring 2b for a back up catcher? sweet!
2005-12-07 12:34:32
93.   Shmueli4
now some MLB reporter is interviewing Raffi
2005-12-07 12:34:36
94.   natepurcell
haha, furcal couldnt pronnounce colletti so he just called him Ned.
2005-12-07 12:34:47
95.   molokai
90
If we had a healthy outfield heading into ST I think you plan is spot on but who plays in the outfield in April when Milton/Werth/Drew aren't ready?
2005-12-07 12:36:30
96.   natepurcell
Milton/Werth/Drew aren't ready

illll take the job.

2005-12-07 12:37:21
97.   natepurcell
haha.. "Mr. Ned"
2005-12-07 12:37:36
98.   regfairfield
92 It would be like the Dodgers trading their closer for the Phillies backup centerfielder and fourth starter.
2005-12-07 12:38:52
99.   natepurcell
oh joy, jim tracy going to be on in just a minute!!
2005-12-07 12:38:54
100.   Nuke
LMAO. "Mr. McCourt and Mr. uh...Mr. Ned"
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-12-07 12:38:59
101.   Shmueli4
ohhh and for an encore, JT will be on soon
2005-12-07 12:40:22
102.   natepurcell
Mr. Ned is priceless.
2005-12-07 12:41:50
103.   Penarol1916
89. On John Sickels Padres Top 20 prospect review he said that Barfield has nothing left to prove in the minors.

62. I too was ignorant of the appeal of Limburger with my only frame of reference being cartoons, until I visited the only Limburger plant in America a few years ago, now that is some good stuff.

2005-12-07 12:43:03
104.   MartinBillingsley31
95
I know werth will be out for awhile, and anyone in our system can be on the bench like repko (puke) until werth is back.

But drew to my knowledge will be ready for spring training.

I don't know about bradley being ready, if not then ledee starts with drew and cruz, with repko and some youngster from the minors as bench/backups.

It could be worked out.

2005-12-07 12:49:51
105.   Vishal
drew should be ready to start the season, shouldn't he? drew, cruz, ledee/repko works for a little while.
2005-12-07 12:50:50
106.   SMY
I can't believe the jersey name removal was as big a deal as it was. On TV, the announcers and graphics tell you repeatedly what you're seeing. At the game, it's not like most people are close enough to read the backs anyway. What purpose do they really serve?
2005-12-07 12:53:12
107.   fanerman
All in favor of changing Colletti's unofficial name here at DT from Ned or Flanders or whatever to "Mr. Ned"?
2005-12-07 12:54:58
108.   D4P
107
"Flanders" has served us well, but ya gotta like "Mr. Ned". (Plus, the latter has fewer characters to type)
2005-12-07 12:59:15
109.   fanerman
Mr. Ned has one less character to type than Flanders. On the plus side, it's almost like calling him, "Mr. Ed"
2005-12-07 12:59:32
110.   Shmueli4
I love Mr. Ned
2005-12-07 13:00:34
111.   Shmueli4
JT using the rhetorical as good as ever, not to mention split infinitives and comma usage
2005-12-07 13:12:46
112.   scanderbeg
Am I qualified to say if I will miss Jim Tracy this season? I'm not sure if I understand the queston. Am I going to enjoy calling the new GM 'Mr. Ned'? I think we will see in due time, but I am certainly not at fault if I do.
2005-12-07 13:24:54
113.   underdog
Shouldn't Donald Rumsfeld be too busy to post on baseball blogs? He should. But who am I to say.

Say, is that Loretta trade for real? Mirabelli? Are they kidding? Sheesh. I have a feeling that Padre fan/flamer won't come back here to mock our organization any time soon.

2005-12-07 13:28:06
114.   oldbear
If the Dodgers are in on Soriano, and Miggy Cabrera is actually available... Imagine the Dodgers selling the farm this winter?

Dodgers deal Jon Broxton for Soriano
Dodgers deal Billingsley, Guzman, Martin for Miggy Cabrera.
Dodgers resign Bradley to a 1 year deal.
Dodgers sign Bill Mueller (since were going with vets)

You basically sell your whole farm for Soriano and Cabrera? Would you do it?

SS- Furcal
CF- Bradley
RF- Drew
LF- Cabrera
2b- Kent
1b- Soriano
3b- Mueller
C- Navarro

2005-12-07 13:30:40
115.   deburns
76, 114. Steve Phillips on ESPN Baseball Tonight predicted Soriano to LA, for whatever that's worth.
2005-12-07 13:31:24
116.   Marty
Mr. Ned would be perfect if McCourt's name was Wilbur
2005-12-07 13:33:31
117.   scanderbeg
114 I doubt that Cabrera is available. I thought the Marlins wanted to keep him and Willis.

116 I see McCourt as less of a pig and more of a jackass (sorry Mr. Jon).

2005-12-07 13:33:44
118.   natepurcell
cabrera will never happen.
2005-12-07 13:34:25
119.   Marty
If you want the ultimate in Cabrera and Willis rumors, go to Yard Work:
http://www.yard-work.org/?p=449
2005-12-07 13:34:25
120.   blue22
114 - Cabrera's natural position is 3B. I think you'd put him there and pass on Mueller. Soriano's best position would be the outfield, LF most likely.

I'd sub Choi for Mueller and put the lineup like this:

Furcal - ss
Drew - cf
Cabrera - 3b
Kent - 2b
Bradley - rf
Soriano - lf
Choi - 1b
Navarro - c

But that's an awfully steep price to pay for Cabrera, and I'm just as down on the Soriano trade as everyone else. The talk has died down quite a bit, so hopefully that trade goes the way of the Saarloos.

2005-12-07 13:34:33
121.   Steve
115 -- Soriano is GM Porn, and Steve Phillips owns five trenchcoats.
2005-12-07 13:37:07
122.   LAT
106. I don't like the no name jersey becasue it is hard for my kids to follow who's who. Especially in a year like 2005 where the line-ups change every night. In addition, I don't see the point. It doesn't provide any added benifit. Finally, I want to make sure it is really Jason Phillips that I am layin' the stink-eye on.
2005-12-07 13:37:55
123.   FirstMohican
91 - I arrived in Los Angeles during or after game 6 of the 81 series (depending on what time the game started, anyne know?) I was born that evening.

I do know that my Grandma - who doesn't really know much about baseball in general - seems to know everything about Fernando.

2005-12-07 13:38:54
124.   Marty
117 Funny. I was referring to Wilbur Mr. Ed's owner, not Wilbur the pig from Charlotte's Web
2005-12-07 13:39:33
125.   natepurcell
when i wake up from my nap, i better not come to DT and find out mr. ned did something stupid.
2005-12-07 13:40:08
126.   Marty
Fernando OWNED this town in '81
2005-12-07 13:40:32
127.   Bob Timmermann
123

I'm guessing that Game 6 of the 1981 Series started around 5:30 Pacific Time. The game took 3:09 to play. So the game probably ended no earlier 8:39, probably closer to 8:45 or 8:50.

2005-12-07 13:41:10
128.   D4P
121
What does he wear on the weekends?
2005-12-07 13:42:08
129.   SMY
122 That's a good reason. But at the time it happened, the complaints were more just to complain about McCourt. When I went to spring training that's all anyone sitting around us could talk about. Well, that and how bad Choi was.
2005-12-07 13:49:10
130.   scanderbeg
124 Either way, Mr. Ed or a farm, the current projected Dodger lineup smells like crap ( He said as he avoided the flying lettuce, tomatoes and eggs).
2005-12-07 13:51:25
131.   jasonungar05
so, hey..any of you guys plan on hitting spring training games in AZ.

My best friend is an A's fan and lives up in the bay. He just sent me the schedule and tickets go on sale this Friday. Good chance to get away from the wives and have some fun....

I have never gone. Any of you veterans have any advice?

2005-12-07 13:56:13
132.   JJoeScott
122 That's the best reason I've ever seen. The kids part, not the Philips part (which was funny.)

Is there no hope that LaRoche or Guzman are ready to play this year? Again, I go back to a long-ago discussion point: How come none of our third- and fourth-year minor leaguers are ready to play in the Bigs, but the Braves' are? Can't one of LaRoche or Guzman (or someone?) win a job on this team before we resort to Saenz being a half-season- platoon partner instead of a full-season pinch-hitter (which he's suited for and great at!)?

OK ... mini-rant over.

2005-12-07 14:00:33
133.   caseybarker
132-

That is a great question. I think it has a lot to do wit management and the perception that the kids are more likely to fail in L.A. than Atlanta (big-small markets). Atlanta may have more of an incentive to try rookies, because they have already won for a long time.

2005-12-07 14:02:19
134.   oldbear
Whats the reason again that everyone is down on Soriano? He is a free swinger. But he SLG's over .500 and plays middle infield, does it really matter? He's not Encarnacion. If anything, he's more like the Vlad Guerrero of 2nd basemen.

That, and he only makes 7mils this year.

2005-12-07 14:03:06
135.   Jacob L
131 I've been to a number of Cactus League games over the years. Yeah, its fun. From what I gather second hand, Florida is funner (funnerer?).

Anyhow, tickets are pretty easy for anything other than Cub games in Mesa (huge following of transplanted Chicagoans). Maybe the Chisox, being the champs and all, will be tough this year, too.

I can't say that any of the parks particularly distinguish themselves. I liked the old Phoenix muni, if the A's still play there. I sat behind Fay Vincent at a game there. The Giants park in Scottsdale is also nice, but the truth is all the parks are pretty small, and pretty much equally good for watching games.

2005-12-07 14:03:46
136.   still bevens
131 Spring training is a GREAT TIME. I was in Scottsdale last march. The community is way open for it, you can find great spots with cheap beers and check out cheap games. Its also a pretty fun town at night as well. I highly recommend it.
2005-12-07 14:04:33
137.   fanerman
132 - We expect to be able to bring a couple of them up (LaRoche, Guzman, and Billingsley) by mid-season. They haven't had any time at AAA yet. Don't worry.
2005-12-07 14:07:37
138.   fanerman
BTW, Joe Sheehan on the Dodgers hiring Little:

"The Dodgers hired Grady Little to manage, part of the ongoing effort to fill every significant role in the organization with people the media will like, irrespective of ability. Little is a caretaker who doesn't bring much to the table beyond experience and affability. Like most managers, he's esentially harmless, except he's abdicating reponsibility in the biggest moment of his career.

It's a better choice than Jim Fregosi, I guess."

2005-12-07 14:07:49
139.   fanerman
138 - That was from today's Baseball Prospectus, btw.
2005-12-07 14:10:15
140.   Vishal
[134] in short, he is HORRIBLE on defense (well below average), averages only 30 walks a season, and hit worse than izturis outside of arlington the past couple of years. we think he's way overrated.
2005-12-07 14:10:45
141.   fanerman
140 - And giving up Broxton for him? No way.
2005-12-07 14:10:54
142.   Penarol1916
134. Have you not read the last 3 threads? You'll get all of your answers there, having to go through another round of explanations about why people don't like him would just give me a headache.
2005-12-07 14:10:58
143.   dsfan
Maybe the Braves kids are more talented or maybe they were just further along than the LAD positional prospects are now.

Still a tad early for some of LAD kids. As I recall, LaRoche played one half of a season at Double-A and had normal struggles there.

Guzman had a only pretty good full year in Double-A and probably needs to move to a new position.

Loney needs to show he can hit better. No reason he should bypass Triple-A. Let him go to the PCL. He should eventually put up good numbers there, building his value.

Delwyn Young did OK in LV but reputedly could be more of a utility guy.

Russell Martin probably is pretty close to being able to handle significant time in the majors.

I keep going back to Aybar. He often gets overlooked and underappreciated. I see a lot to like. Broad skill set. And I love the durability he's shown. At 22, he's played a ton of baseball.

Willy Aybar could be every bit as ready to handle a starting job as some of those Braves kids were last April. Not saying he'll become a rookie star, but I bet he could hold his own.

Don't count out Willy Aybar.

2005-12-07 14:12:32
144.   Steve
As of Sept. 3, Willy Aybar had a slugging percentage of .000
2005-12-07 14:12:48
145.   fanerman
143 - dsfan,
Has anybody ever told you your comments look a lot like Bill Plaschke's articles? (1-sentence paragraphs)
2005-12-07 14:20:22
146.   Sushirabbit
I like Aybar, too. And, even though I know more is going to happen between now and the first week in April, I would not feel to bad about starting from where we are now plus one good really outfielder or one really good pitcher. I'd love to have Manny Cabrera and Santana, but hey, it ain't gonna happen.
2005-12-07 14:21:51
147.   natepurcell
The Los Angeles Dodgers signed valuable utility man Olmedo Saenz to a two-year contract Wednesday, thus avoiding arbitration.

http://tinyurl.com/7wt7a

2 years!??!?!

2005-12-07 14:23:16
148.   King of the Hobos
Anyone know when the arbitration deadline is?

Also, Jonah Bayliss and a PTBNL for Mark Redman looks official. Good deal for the Royals to get an actual pitcher for a 25 yr old middle reliever, and the Pirates get salary relief for Casey

2005-12-07 14:24:06
149.   King of the Hobos
147 There were worse things that we could do
2005-12-07 14:25:09
150.   natepurcell
does the saenz resigning give us choi supporters a little bit more hope for a platoon next year?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-12-07 14:26:59
151.   DodgerJoe
OK, I understand everyone's dislike for Soriano, but what do we do about another bat?

The lineup as it stands has no pop (Kent and perhaps Drew) excluded

2005-12-07 14:27:57
152.   Jon Weisman
148 - From the sidebar on Bronx Banter:

Nov 19: reserve lists filed for major and all minor leagues
Dec 7: last date for clubs to offer salary arbitration to their declared free agents (free agents not offered arbitration cannot resign with their old teams until May 1)
Dec 8: Rule 5 draft
Dec 19: last date for declared free agents who were offered salary arbitration to accept it
Dec 20: non-tender date
Jan 8: last date for free agents who declined salary arbitration to sign with their old clubs

2005-12-07 14:30:15
153.   Uncle Miltie
I was at lunch, so I missed the Mr. Ned comment. I'm starting to like Furcal. He admits that he came here for the money and calls Colletti "Mr. Ned".
2005-12-07 14:31:45
154.   dzzrtRatt
147 Remember, Saenz is only 30.
2005-12-07 14:32:49
155.   Uncle Miltie
I didn't want Olmedo back for 1, so Ned gives him 2? If hits well enough, he could be trade bait.
2005-12-07 14:33:35
156.   Steve
154 -- In dog years?
2005-12-07 14:33:58
157.   capdodger
151 Don't forget Bradley and Choi/Saenz. They're still on the team "as it stands."
2005-12-07 14:34:38
158.   D4P
156
Or Hideki Matsui years?
2005-12-07 14:34:39
159.   capdodger
154 The important part is if that new contract makes him feel sexy.
2005-12-07 14:35:31
160.   dzzrtRatt
156 I was referring to the article in a Pittsburgh paper about Tracy coveting Saenz and Bradley. They had Saenz at 30. Probably too in-jokey, even for this crowd.
2005-12-07 14:37:36
161.   Rob M
139 I've had email conversations with Plaschke. He doesn't use sentences or caps. Just phrases separated by elipses.
2005-12-07 14:39:30
162.   Steve
161 -- Who did you murder in a prior life to have to get in a conversation with Plaschke?
2005-12-07 14:41:07
163.   regfairfield
Until we get some terms on the Saenz deal, it can range from decent to quite scary.
2005-12-07 14:42:13
164.   Bob Timmermann
161

He's conversed with Satan! We must cast him out! Let's gather together our pitchforks and storm his home!

2005-12-07 14:45:57
165.   Uncle Miltie
163- anything more than $5 million is a bad deal. $4 million would be solid
2005-12-07 14:46:52
166.   Marty
164 I've had conversations with him too. Mostly the "hey, how do I get to the second floor from here" type though.
2005-12-07 14:47:24
167.   TheDictator
OK, is there a video on the "Mr. Ned" comment? I have to see this.

I was impressed with Grady little saying "hell" at his press conference.

Is Flanders assembling the Bad News Bears/Dodgers?

2005-12-07 14:47:43
168.   King of the Hobos
152 I meant the specific time of day, but it doesn't matter now. The Royals no longer have to give up a draft pick for Elmer Dessens Dreifort, Bako, Valentin, and Alvarez won't be Dodgers next year. Weaver could be, or he could be 2 draft picks
2005-12-07 14:48:23
169.   King of the Hobos
168 There's suppose to be a period after Dessens if that confuses anyone
2005-12-07 14:52:21
170.   Rob M
[162, 164 I wrote him in during spring training. I think I started with something like "do you actually believe the things you write?" after one of his columns dissing DePodesta's new roster. He responded in a fairly disarming way and we had a short correspondance. He was concerned about defense, primarily (IIRC) - pairing the supposed iron glove on Kent with the new gb pitchers. I directed him to websites that listed defensive metrics showing Kent was a solid defender. Ultimately, he was dismissive of any evidence I tried to share and fell back on "the A's have never won a playoff series" trump card. I told him that was dishonest, considering how successful they had been for so long with so little payroll, but that was the end of it. I wrote him again just before DePo was fired, after his assinine column about DePo's managerial search. He didn't respond. I have a feeling he has tuned out all of the DePo supporters at this point.
2005-12-07 14:57:59
171.   Bob Timmermann
170

OK, cancel the pitchfork order.

2005-12-07 15:02:00
172.   Steve
I don't know. It could be one of those Threshold-like things where the Sound of Plaschke's Voice turns him into one of Them. I'd keep a close eye.
2005-12-07 15:02:24
173.   Blu2
I like Guzman but what's wrong with trading him or any other prospect for Cabrera? It's just a loan, we could get them back 3 years from now in the next Fire Sale for another couple of prospects...
2005-12-07 15:06:33
174.   Brendan
saw this on mlb.com:

• The Red Sox have been talking with the Padres about a trade that would send left-hander David Wells and catcher Doug Mirabelli to San Diego for infielder Mark Loretta and pitcher Akinori Otsuka.

not sure if it makes padres look any better though but it isn't all star 2B for back up catcher.

2005-12-07 15:10:14
175.   King of the Hobos
Mark Sweeney has supposedly signed a 2 year, $1.8 mil contract with the Giants. He'd likely platoon with Niekro. Well, Mr. Ned can still get Snow if he wants
2005-12-07 15:19:24
176.   King of the Hobos
Todd Jones to the Tigers on a 2 year deal supposedly
2005-12-07 15:20:34
177.   Rob M
"There was an ex-manager out there who was fired because he trusted instinct over statistic, people over paradigms, baseball over everything.

And this same guy, the Dodgers just hired him?

Ned Colletti can pump his right fist any time now."

That's great Plaschke. Little trusted his "instincts" (more like he panicked and abdicated his job to Pedro) and it DIDN'T WORK! Jeez.

I still don't like this hire, though it seems to have gone over pretty well here. I do think his game management will drive us all crazy next year. Last night they played a smippet of the broadcast of that game 7, when Grady went to the mound and then left Pedro in. Like I remembered, the announcers were stunned that he left Pedro in. It wasn't hindsight. It was during-sight, as in I can't believe this is actually happening. It was a million times worse than anything Tracy ever did, because they so easily could have won that game. Wasn't their bullpen riding a scoreless inning streak to boot?

I can't let go of this.

2005-12-07 15:25:45
178.   Bob Timmermann
Red Sox reliever Brandon Arroyo surrendered a run in the 5th inning of game 6. The next run surrendered by a Red Sox reliever was Boone's homer off of Wakefield.

Scott Williamson gave up a run in the ninth of Game 4, but the Red Sox won 3-2.

2005-12-07 15:29:01
179.   Dark Horse
177--It seems worth letting go of it, though. It's one mistake--admittedly a costly one--and it remains understandable, to me at least. I'll change my mind if he does it again. But when I consider the candidates we could've been stuck with, I'm not so unhappy.
2005-12-07 15:34:09
180.   Bob Timmermann
177

You could have mentioned to Plaschke that Jim Tracy never won a playoff series either.

2005-12-07 15:35:58
181.   Vishal
[177] hahahah, that's PERFECT plaschke right there. that excerpt says it all. what is important to billy p is style. giving the finger to modern baseball thinking. winning and losing doesn't matter. it's all about driving by feel, because that's how the game should be played. with SOUL. come to think of it, plaschke is sportswriting's version of deepak chopra. his whole outlook is descended from new-age drivel.

so pump that fist, ned colletti. you stuck it to the objectivists today.

2005-12-07 15:37:50
182.   gvette
I'm not particularly a fan of Grady Little, BUT;

If Lasorda could pitch to Jack Clark, among many other bonehead moves in his career, and make the Hall of Fame, AND

Alston could mismanage the '62 Playoff Series, keep his job and end up in Cooperstown, we should at least see if Little can make it through Spring Training in Vero without screwing up.

2005-12-07 15:44:32
183.   Brad Bogner
The Padres are about to announce they have acquired David Wells. Do you think this makes the Dodgers more likely to re-sign Weaver?
2005-12-07 15:46:27
184.   natepurcell
just on sportscenter, hoffman reups with pads. 2 yr deal, vesting option for 3rd.
2005-12-07 15:47:41
185.   Brad Bogner
Ah, it's Hoffman instead. Maybe the Wells-Loretta trade will be finalized later.
2005-12-07 15:50:17
186.   King of the Hobos
Hoffman was supposedly required for a Loretta-Mirabelli swap to occur, as Loretta's contract made it hard to sign Hoffman. I doubt Wells is involved at this point. Save an Eaton trade, the Padres are just about done it would seem.
2005-12-07 15:52:20
187.   Rob M
182 I agree that many managers have made many stupid, stupid decisions over the year. I just don't understand why the job hasn't progressed with the times. Tony Larussa, at least, is very interested in statistics. Who wouldn't want to use them as a tool? It's ludicrous. Instict seems like the worst tool to use to make certain decisions. You should know that your pitcher surrenders a .950 OPS (not the real figure, just and example) to the league after his 100th pitch before you leave him in after 110 pitches to face the toughest lineup of in baseball with the game on the line. And that your LOOGY is holding lefties to a .120 BA and he's ready in the pen. Maybe at that moment, some part of your brain likes the narrative, the drama, of Pedro "gutting it out" to finally beat the mighty Yankees. Make that part of your brain shut up and make the obvious decision, please!!!
2005-12-07 15:53:34
188.   Sushirabbit
Weaver. Yeah, that's where we get some extra pop in the bat, we re-sign him.

Hahaha. I'm fine resigning him to a non-Boras figure contract.

2005-12-07 15:54:09
189.   underdog
We could always sign Roger Clemens. The Astros just cut him loose. If we're gonna sign someone over 40, better him than Wells methinks.
2005-12-07 15:58:13
190.   Brad Bogner
MLB.com

"Ramirez is being pursued by the Dodgers and Mets (the latter to a lesser degree) and both sides were continuing efforts to work a trade with Boston for the slugger."

2005-12-07 15:59:49
191.   blue22
So who would be involved with Manny? Strictly prospects? Odalis? Milton? Probably not Kent anymore, with Loretta imminent.
2005-12-07 16:01:12
192.   gvette
187-- Only problem is that when "instinct" miraculously does work, it validates both old school baseball guys (Lasorda), old school baseball hacks (Plaschke), and is glorified into legend;

Exhibit A: Game 3 of the '81 WS where Lasorda sticks with a wobbly Fernando who throws a zillion pitches, but wins;

Exhibit B: Kirk Gibson

2005-12-07 16:03:33
193.   natepurcell
i assume odalis, guzman, milton for manny+ salary relief.
2005-12-07 16:06:22
194.   Rob M
192 re: Exhibit B. To be fair, he was the only power threat available. And he didn't play again the whole series.

But you're right, there's a lot of luck involved. I remember reading something that Larussa said about that WS, that Lasorda was unbelievably lucky with hit and run success in that series - way off the probablity charts. I don't think you can account for that. It just happens sometims.

2005-12-07 16:09:41
195.   natepurcell
did the braves offer furcal arbitration? i dont see it anywhere...
2005-12-07 16:12:31
196.   molokai
Maybe Manny told Ned that he'd come to LA if he hired Little:)
2005-12-07 16:13:24
197.   KLV
Manny is one hell of a hitter but he really should go to an AL team where he can DH. Damn I wish Giles had taken our 3 year, $34.5 million deal.
2005-12-07 16:13:53
198.   Jesse
espn rumor central is reporting that we've entered the abreu dealings- possibly for lowe or penny. i would approve.

it seems as if the guys ned is targeting have power and the ability to steal bases well. aside from soriano's attrocious obp and his stated desire for a new first baseman, i like the rumors floating about, sometimes...

2005-12-07 16:17:36
199.   King of the Hobos
MLB.com radio is reporting an Obermueller for Kolb deal
2005-12-07 16:25:48
200.   oldbear
Who cares about Soriano's OBP, when he can hit 35+homers playing 2nd base in 2007?

Its ok to be a free swinger, if when you make contact, the ball goes a long way.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-12-07 16:26:51
201.   natepurcell
do you care about his home/away splits oldbear?

hes not going to hit 35 homeruns playing in DS

2005-12-07 16:35:44
202.   Bob Timmermann
192

In the 1981 World Series, Lasorda didn't have a lot of options for relieving Valenzuela. He was down 0-2. He had his best pitcher going. His best relievers, Howe and Stewart, had a bad game 2.

He needed to ride his horse to the end. Valenzuela allowed 17 baserunners in that game. The Yankees scored 4 of them. They left 9 on base. They hit into 2 DPs and Willie Randolph got caught stealing.

The Yankees were retired in order twice, in the 7th and 9th.

In the 8th, Valenzuela gave up back to back singles to Aurelio Rodriguez and Larry Milbourne, which would have normally sent any manager to get a fresh arm as those guys were terrible. But fortunately, Bob Lemon was managing and he called on Bobby Murcer to pinch hit. Bunt DP. And then Randolph made the last out when Rodriguez ran into an out at third on a grounder to Cey.

2005-12-07 16:37:08
203.   caseybarker
192-

I tear up whenever I look at Gibson's homerun. I've never looked at the options LaSorda had available at the time. Might be interesting.

2005-12-07 16:40:24
204.   natepurcell
from the red sox website, they have offered arbitration to 3 players- damon, mueller, and graffainno.

i dont want to lose a 3rd round pick for mueller.

2005-12-07 16:42:40
205.   Bob Timmermann
The other pinch-hitters available in Game 1 of the 1988 World Series would have been:

Dave Anderson (who was in the ondeck circle)
Mike Sharperson (who didn't play in the World Series)
Rick Dempsey (can't use the backup catcher)

Lasorda had pinch hit for Tim Leary (who batted .286) with Tracy Woodson (who batted .249)

2005-12-07 16:47:39
206.   Bob Timmermann
The real miracle of 1988 in my mind was that Mike Davis walked ahead of Gibson. Mike Davis had an OBP of 260 in 1988.

Eckersley had walked just 11 batters all season.

2005-12-07 16:49:40
207.   Monterey Chris
182 describes Lasorda pitching to Jack Clark as a boneheaded move. I thought I've seen it written on this site that it was the correct move from a statistical standpoint. The only reason it was boneheaded is that it did not work!
2005-12-07 16:50:27
208.   King of the Hobos
The Red Sox supposedly didn't offer arbitration to Millar, Myers, Mantei...but not every "M" named FA. Muller was offered, so he would cost picks

Also (I don't have a good source for this), the Red Sox may be interested in Izzy (for Wells) if they trade Renteria. I wouldn't put much into this (it was supposedly reported on WEEI)

2005-12-07 16:51:05
209.   zappala
Instinct gets validated all the time. I was at game 5 in 1988 when Mike Davis ran the count 3-0. I leaned over to my buddy and told him Lasorda would let him swing away and Davis would hit a homerun. Worked beautifully. (Same Mike Davis who walked prior to Gibson in game 1.) One memorable time is enough to sell most people.
2005-12-07 16:51:27
210.   King of the Hobos
208 Only 10 minutes late with the Mueller info
2005-12-07 16:52:50
211.   gvette
202--Bob, I was at that Fernando game;
1)Fernando must have thrown around 130 pitches;
2)The Murcer bunt DP was actually a diving "circus" play by the usually less than mobile Cey;
3)Bob Lemon was no Billy Martin, but he was good enough to beat possibly the best Dodger team of the decade in the '78 WS.

Grady Little wished for the same result in '03 that Lasorda got in '81, instead all we got was an extra year of whining from "Red Sox Nation".

2005-12-07 16:52:55
212.   jasonungar05
yeah, Eck thought he was pitching to the 1987 Davis.

The thing that everyone also forgets about is the Scioscia bomb vs Dwight Gooden to steal that game from the Mets. If I recall it was like the 8th inning. I think Scioscia had 3 bombs all year. I think Gooden was unhitable for the most part back then, along with Eck.

2005-12-07 16:55:08
213.   zappala
Amazingly, Davis walked 4 times in that series, when he had walked 25 times all year. He also used to play for the A's.
2005-12-07 16:57:17
214.   Steve
Those predicting the rise of the Milwaukee Brewers may have spoken too soon.
2005-12-07 17:02:52
215.   Rob M
I wish retrosheet had pitch counts for those old games. I think I read that Fernando threw around 170 pitches in that 11 inning outing against Gooden.

[shake fist/]DAMN YOU, LASORDA [shake fist]

2005-12-07 17:05:51
216.   oldbear
201. I dont care. I dont care anymore about those H/A splits, as I care about Furcal's AVG's at Dodger Stadium.

If Soriano can hit 39HR's playing in Yankee Stadium (tough to do for a right handed hitter), why dont you think he could do something similar to that in LA?

Unless Soriano is actually 35, instead of 30, and is in a noticeable decline, I just dont see it. I dont think a player can be washed up at 30.

If Soriano hadnt performed in NY, then I'd be skeptical. But its not like were acquiring a purely stadium enhanced unproven hitter (Preston Wilson)...

Soriano's #'s in New York, his age, and his power potential at a powerless position (2nd base) make it seem a gamble worth taking.

Especially if the deal only is Broxton.

2005-12-07 17:08:05
217.   gvette
207-- THE ONLY REASON THAT IT WAS BONEHEADED WAS THAT IT DIDN'T WORK

Yeah, well if your relief ace was the hapless Neidenfuer, you're already doomed anyway.

2005-12-07 17:09:32
218.   Marty
Neidenfuer, GAH!
2005-12-07 17:10:50
219.   blue22
216 - Soriano has some real flaws (OBP and defense being the major ones), enough that I don't want to give up Broxton, one of my 4 untouchables (along with Guzman, CBill, and Martin).

If he plays left, I'm not as opposed to the deal. I hate to think that he pushes Kent to first, and Kent pushes Choi to the bench.

2005-12-07 17:14:34
220.   D4P
Why should "what Soriano did in 2002-3" be more meaningful than "what Soriano did in 2004-5"? If he was such a great hitter in Yankee Stadium, why did he decline in Texas (which I assume is a better right-handed hitter's park)?
2005-12-07 17:15:34
221.   Rob M
http://tinyurl.com/8ba9f

Interesting counter-argument to my pitch count whining.

2005-12-07 17:16:36
222.   zappala
Hey, what was wrong with Neidenfuer? Aside from that fateful moment?
2005-12-07 17:17:50
223.   King of the Hobos
Mirabelli-Loretta deal appears official. Mirabelli will start over Olivo

Busy day for the Padres, they got Hoffman, Brazelton, and Mirabelli for Loretta, Burroughs, and a lot of money

2005-12-07 17:18:22
224.   D4P
222
Didn't he lose Bob's 11-inning Fernando game?
2005-12-07 17:19:32
225.   GoBears
220 Amen. Especially since he was at his peak then, and is past it now. Of course OBP matters, more than SLG. Soriano's strikeouts aren't the problem. The problem is all the weak outs on balls outside the strike zone (outs instead of walks). And that he plays 2nd base is not an attribute in this case, because he's so gawdawful at it. 30 HRs and 30 doubles and, say, 60 singles are nice, but not when they're the only 120 PAs in which you did anything that wasn't an out.

Soriano needs to be a DH - he can't field any better than Manny or Matt LeCroy. Unfortunately, he can't carry Mannys' jockstrap as a hitter.

2005-12-07 17:19:36
226.   GoBears
220 Amen. Especially since he was at his peak then, and is past it now. Of course OBP matters, more than SLG. Soriano's strikeouts aren't the problem. The problem is all the weak outs on balls outside the strike zone (outs instead of walks). And that he plays 2nd base is not an attribute in this case, because he's so gawdawful at it. 30 HRs and 30 doubles and, say, 60 singles are nice, but not when they're the only 120 PAs in which you did anything that wasn't an out.

Soriano needs to be a DH - he can't field any better than Manny or Matt LeCroy. Unfortunately, he can't carry Mannys' jockstrap as a hitter.

2005-12-07 17:20:05
227.   gvette
222--Well, for starters, there was that other fateful moment with Ozzie Smith two days before in the same series.
2005-12-07 17:20:10
228.   Steve
Soriano is the Thinking Man's Raul Mondesi.
2005-12-07 17:20:20
229.   GoBears
Oops, sorry about that. Itchy mouse-clicker-finger. Gotta find some hydrocortisone.
2005-12-07 17:22:35
230.   GoBears
Soriano is the Thinking Man's Raul Mondesi.

Because Soriano lacks 2 of Raul's skillz (defense and arm)?

Actually, I always thought Mondesi was great at coming in on shallow flies, but lousy at going back to the fence on long ones. Don't know if there's any measure of that sort of thing. I thought Shawn Green was the opposite when he first came to LA. Good going back, but everything dropped in front of him.

2005-12-07 17:22:43
231.   D4P
225,226
Based on my review, Soriano had the lowest OBP in the majors among players with at least .800 OPS. If it's true that OBP is anywhere from 1.5 to 3 times as important as SLG, then that would seem to suggest that Soriano is (from an OBP, SLG, OPS standpoint) the least valuable among all players in the league with .800 or greater OPS.
2005-12-07 17:22:44
232.   Marty
Didn't Niedenfuer implode a couple times in the 85 Cardinal series? I never trusted him.
2005-12-07 17:25:45
233.   gvette
232--Marty, didn't Neidenfuer marry a starlet, then immediately lose 5 mph off his fastball?
2005-12-07 17:26:00
234.   GoBears
230 Oops again. Should have written "toolz," not skillz." Mondy was the prototypical 5-tool player. And a major disappointment. Soriano is at best a 2-tool player. He owns a third tool - a glove, but he just uses it to keep his hand warm.
2005-12-07 17:27:52
235.   trainwreck
I know they are trying to save money but you would think the Padres could get a little more than Mirabelli for Loretta.
2005-12-07 17:27:54
236.   Marty
Gvette, are you serious? I don't remember that
2005-12-07 17:28:24
237.   natepurcell
i see soriano having 3 good tools- power, average, and speed.

lacks everything else.

2005-12-07 17:28:25
238.   zappala
Wow, the best you can come up with is that Niedenfuer didn't "come up big" in a few important games? You guys sound like Plashke! Here I was expecting a good stats-based analysis of how he compared to other relievers of his time.
2005-12-07 17:30:12
239.   Marty
238 Who said I was a stats guy?
2005-12-07 17:30:20
240.   natepurcell
lets offer clemens a one yr 14 mil deal.
2005-12-07 17:31:17
241.   trainwreck
So winter meetings are over and we got Grady Little and Olmaedo Saenz...winter meetings are a little overblown.
2005-12-07 17:32:09
242.   trainwreck
I would offer Clemens up to 20 million. He's the best pitcher in baseball.
2005-12-07 17:32:17
243.   natepurcell
hmm padres current lineup
c- mirabelli/olivo
3b-castilla
ss- green
2b-barfield
1b-klesko?
lf-ben johnson
cf-cameron
rf-giles

does anyone fear them?

2005-12-07 17:33:30
244.   trainwreck
243-
Depends on what our team ends up looking like. Right now they look no better than they were last year.
2005-12-07 17:34:22
245.   natepurcell
rotation:
peavy
eaton
woody
brazelton
stauffer
2005-12-07 17:34:48
246.   regfairfield
They actually appear quite a bit worse.
2005-12-07 17:37:19
247.   RELX
212. Actually, the Scoscia HR came with, I believe, one out in the ninth inning, and tied the game. Gooden was good that year, but not as dominating as he had been in 1984 and 1985.

I was at the game, as i used to work for the Mets, back in college, selling hot dogs and beer. If i recall, the game went 13 innings, and Alejandro Pena came in and pitched in relief. The Mets had runners on in every one of the extra innings. In the 13th, the Dodgers brought in Jesse Orosco, who had been terrible that year, to pitch to Hernandez and Strawberry. After walking Hernandez, Lasorda came out to the mound and supposedly told Orosco to throw a f$%*ing strike, or something to that effect. Orosco got Strawberry to pop out, and then Hersisher came in to get the final out. As everyone knows, 1988 was Orel's big season--there was a collective gasp when he came into the game. Supposedly, Hersisher started warming up without being asked to by Lasorda.

2005-12-07 17:38:20
248.   King of the Hobos
241 The Winter Meetings are not yet done. We haven't even had the Rule 5 yet (they end tomorrow)
2005-12-07 17:39:06
249.   Bob Timmermann
The LA Times story didn't have a pitch count for the Valenzuela-Gooden duel in 1985. But Valenzuela had more than his share of games over 150.
2005-12-07 17:40:27
250.   King of the Hobos
243 Roberts is still in left. Ben Johnson makes way too much sense
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-12-07 17:40:33
251.   gvette
238-- Sorry, but I can't force myself to relive the painful days of Neidenfuer more than is necessary, and, anyway I have to run to the Clippers game.

But,he was absolutely horrible following the Clark game, wallowed through '86, and was traded in early '87 for Shelby who had a career year ('87 was a freak year for HRs).
Great relievers of the time included Sutter, Reardon, Lee Smith, and trust us old guys, Neidenfeur didn't compare with any of them.

236--He married a starlet (Judy Landers??) who was on Dallas-- then commenced his steep decline to infamy.

2005-12-07 17:40:51
252.   caseybarker
238-

Blown games are more memorable. Especially in the playoffs. If you finish 10 games ahead of second place, two or three blown saves doesn't hurt. Statistics don't matter as much in a short 5 or 7 game series.

Niedenfeuer in the playoffs was like Gagne in the all-star game.

2005-12-07 17:45:04
253.   Michael G
According to Rotoworld, Olmedo Saenz will get $2 million over 2 years.
2005-12-07 17:48:35
254.   natepurcell
a mil a yr is a hell of a deal.
2005-12-07 17:48:53
255.   regfairfield
253 Wow. I'm happy.
2005-12-07 17:53:11
256.   slackfarmer
What's with not offering arb to Dessens? Seems like a waste of a draft pick.
2005-12-07 17:56:25
257.   D4P
256
I read somewhere that the Dodgers were concerned that Dessens would accept, and that they would have to pay too much for him. I don't agree with their decision. Either he rejects, and you get a draft pick, or he accepts, and you get a pretty good pitcher for pretty cheap. There didn't seem to be much risk to me.
2005-12-07 17:56:53
258.   King of the Hobos
256 I guess Colletti and the gang are afraid Dessens will rather the higher arbitration salary over the Royals' offer

I have no problem with Saenz's contract at a million per year

2005-12-07 18:02:18
259.   Uncle Miltie
Very solid deal for Olmedo. He could definitely be used as trade bait later on.

Does anyone know why there hasn't been a 3rd season for Da Ali G Show? Did HBO cancel it?

2005-12-07 18:05:54
260.   Rob M
Old Maid is a masher. My favorite professional hitter.
2005-12-07 18:06:44
261.   D4P
260
I believe the "P" and "H" should be capitalized.

(i.e. Profressional Hitter)

2005-12-07 18:09:34
262.   zappala
Can Clemens just sit out and wait until summer to sign with whoever looks like they have a good shot at winning it? How late can he sign?
2005-12-07 18:19:03
263.   GoBears
I'd be shocked if Clemens were to play for anyone other than Houston or maybe the Yanks or Rangers.

Oddly, the Saenz signing (Saegning?) somehow makes me think that Choi is tradeable - that Colletti will replace his half of the platoon with JT Snow or his ilk. Don't know why - it shouldn't matter one way or the other - but it's just a feeling.

2005-12-07 18:22:45
264.   trainwreck
Apparently ESPN radio (this means do not take it as fact yet) is saying Nomar signing with Orioles for 4 million for one year and will play 1st base.
2005-12-07 18:23:01
265.   Fallout
161. Rob M

in blue lettering.

2005-12-07 18:29:33
266.   TheDictator
Now that we have re-signed Seanz we should send him to Pittsburgh for Zach Duke. Only if Jim Tracy was the GM . . .

I wouldn't rule out Loney playing first base in a platoon with Seanz next year. I read somewhere that Colletti with thinking about it because of Loney's defensive skills. Loney would learn to hit on the job.

2005-12-07 18:30:06
267.   Telemachos
259 I'm not sure if this is the primary reason or not, but I've heard they're having a harder and harder time finding people willing to be interviewed (Ali G's fame now starting to hurt him).
2005-12-07 18:31:51
268.   D4P
"Longtime Dodgers scout Carl Loewenstine on Wednesday was named Baseball's Scout of the Year at a reception at the Winter Meetings...Among the players Loewenstine sent to the Major Leagues was Dave Anderson, shortstop on the Dodgers' 1988 world championship team."
http://tinyurl.com/8b4l9
2005-12-07 18:33:10
269.   TheDictator
I heard the steriod brothers are still available. We have a chance at Palmeiro and Sosa! That would solve first base and outfield.

Its getting late in the Eastern Time Zone. I am getting loopy!

2005-12-07 18:33:53
270.   YLT
I made the mistake of listening to Mason and Matthew Berry on the way home, and they interviewed A Martinez. Doubt that he has much insider information, but he gave the Dodgers a 50% chance of getting Soriano, more than a 50% chance of getting Morris, and a zero chance of getting Manny or Abreu. Hope he's wrong about Abreu.
2005-12-07 18:34:24
271.   trainwreck
267-
Ali G is done. They are making a Borat movie though. Sacha Baron Cohen is moving on to movies as different characters. He plays a gay french formula 1 racer in his next film and he is trying to get into Nascar and hes the bad guy and Will Ferrel is the good guy.
2005-12-07 18:36:51
272.   blue22
271 - Borat's "My wife..." makes me laugh every single time.

Anyone recognize Sacha's cameo in this week's Curb your Enthusiasm (paired with someone slightly more notable)?

2005-12-07 18:37:41
273.   trainwreck
272-
Yeah I noticed that. Too bad he did not say one funny thing hahaha.
2005-12-07 18:44:20
274.   YLT
Ali G is great, but how bad was that movie? It went past being so bad it's good, to just plain being bad.
2005-12-07 18:48:23
275.   trainwreck
274-
Movie really tried to appeal to a mass audience so humor was even more sophmoric. I still like it though. Hey fatty boom boom, fatty boom boom.
2005-12-07 19:06:14
276.   TheDictator
The Furcal bit with "Mr. Ned" and his flat out admission that he came here for the money (Bobby Cox supposedly told Furcal he would be irresponsible not to take the money) combined with Grady Little's impersonation of Lou Brown makes me think this team is finally on the right track.

Rafael Furcal = Roger Dorn - ("Even me?" "Even you Dorn")

Derek Lowe = Eddie Harris - (Yo bartender! Jobu needs a refill!)

Eric Gagne = Rick "Wild Thing" Vaughn - ("Do you want me to drag him out back and kick the crap out of him?")

Jeff Kent = Jake Taylor - ("Com-on would I bs you about something like that?")

Milton Bradley = Willie Mays Hayes - ("Well you may run like Mays but you hit like !)

Hee Seop Choi = Pedro Cerrano
("Hats for bats. Keep bats warm!")

Grady Little = Lou Brown
("This my kinda team Charlie! My kinda team!")

Charlie Steiner = Harry Doyle
("Just a bit outside!")

Ned Colletti = Charlie Donovan
("What is our team concept anyway?")

Barry Bonds = Clue Haywood - ("Says here this guy is a convicted felon. Well he ought to be!")

Finally,
Jamie McCourt = Rachel Phelps
("You're lucky I can still afford to pay your salary!")

Oh, too much fun!

2005-12-07 19:09:26
277.   Uncle Miltie
Never saw the movie. That's too bad. I love the show. Has anyone seen the episode where Borat is looking to move into a rich neighborhood? Unfortunately, I can't repeat any of the jokes here.

Here's an appropriate skit:
Ali G: So why did they decide to write the constitution on those 2 tablets
Historian: They're not on tablets, they're on paper
Ali G: Didn't they...hold up..
Historian: No...that's Moses
Ali G: Alright..so how involved was Moses in the constitution?

Good news:
According to the Boston Globe's Gordon Edes, the Dodgers, A's and Giants are all out of the chase for David Wells, leaving only the Padres negotiating with Boston.

2005-12-07 19:13:13
278.   Eric L
Derek Lowe = Eddie Harris - (Yo bartender! Jobu needs a refill!)

Wasn't Harris supposed to be a religious sort of fellow? I just don't see D-Lowe fitting that role...

2005-12-07 19:13:22
279.   TheDictator
Correction:

Hee Seop Choi = Pedro Cerrano
("Straight ball I hit very much. But curve ball? Bats are scared")

2005-12-07 19:16:03
280.   TheDictator
278 - Harris was the religious type but he also drank and cussed a lot in the movie. He even blasphemed during a prayer.

So, I thought D-Lowe would fit the bill. Doesn't D-Lowe wear a cross? I thought I saw him with one on.

2005-12-07 19:24:07
281.   Eric Enders
276 had me rolling on the floor.
2005-12-07 19:25:05
282.   trainwreck
http://tinyurl.com/9g6ug
Here is a good Borat soundboard.

We need Matsui to play Tanaka from MJ2.

2005-12-07 19:26:24
283.   trainwreck
Who is our Parkman then? Someone who left the team and continued to succeed and was a jerk.
2005-12-07 19:28:40
284.   TheDictator
283-

Mike Piazza = Parkman

2005-12-07 19:28:52
285.   trainwreck
We need to sign Kenny Rogers he is a great Harris.
2005-12-07 19:29:55
286.   trainwreck
Piazza sucks now. I know its Sheffield, it works on so many levels haha. Accept the whole smiling thing, thats Joe Randa to a tee.
2005-12-07 19:30:51
287.   trainwreck
God I love those movies, I choose to ignore that there is a third movie.
2005-12-07 19:32:30
288.   regfairfield
286 He may not be Piazza any more, but he still is a catcher with a near .800 OPS.
2005-12-07 19:38:28
289.   trainwreck
Yeah but he's not really a jerk.
2005-12-07 19:39:49
290.   trainwreck
Steve is Randy Quaid's character from the sequel.

Carolyn Hughes is that women that corrupts wild thing Rick Vaughn in the sequel.

We even have our own Randy Newman song.

2005-12-07 19:53:49
291.   Uncle Miltie
282- great link. The one I was talking about was episode 5. Episode 3 is also great.
2005-12-07 20:00:58
292.   D4P
It's kinda dead around here without any unsubstantiated rumors to freak out about...
2005-12-07 20:02:25
293.   King of the Hobos
According to ESPN.com's Steve Phillips, a trade was discussed that would have sent Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers, Bobby Abreu and J.D. Drew to Boston and Derek Lowe and Trot Nixon to Philadelphia.
Phillips said it wasn't going to happen now, though he didn't say who killed it. It seems to us that the Phillies would have been the big losers. The Dodgers would have gotten Ramirez for two players who have to be considered overpaid -Rotoworld

I'm not sure I would have liked that

2005-12-07 20:03:23
294.   Uncle Miltie
According to ESPN.com's Steve Phillips, a trade was discussed that would have sent Manny Ramirez to the Dodgers, Bobby Abreu and J.D. Drew to Boston and Derek Lowe and Trot Nixon to Philadelphia.
Phillips said it wasn't going to happen now, though he didn't say who killed it. It seems to us that the Phillies would have been the big losers. The Dodgers would have gotten Ramirez for two players who have to be considered overpaid.

I disagree with rotoworld. I don't think I would have done it. Why not just offer Derek Lowe and another player to Philly for Abreu? Well, they might be the team that killed. That trade would have been a huge steal for Boston.

2005-12-07 20:05:16
295.   trainwreck
White Sox decline arbitration to Thomas so I think he could become an A soon. Great move in my opinion if it happens.
2005-12-07 20:16:32
296.   King of the Hobos
Moyer signed with the Mariners for 1 year, $5.5 mil.

Also, the Reds signed Jacob Cruz for $650K, but it's not guarunteed. For someone who led the NL in pinch hits, you would have thought Cruz could get guarunteed money, especially with what guys like Marlon Anderson are getting

2005-12-07 20:17:52
297.   D4P
Manny doesn't seem to fit well with Mr. Ned's preference for speed and athleticism over power.
2005-12-07 20:19:43
298.   Brad Bogner
294 That would have been a great trade for the Dodgers in my opinion.
2005-12-07 20:20:28
299.   D4P
Are you guys hearing anything about Soriano going to the Nationals?
2005-12-07 20:23:23
300.   trainwreck
Is it for Wilkerson?
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-12-07 20:24:57
301.   blue22
good news: soriano traded to DC, yay!
bad news: it was for wilkerson, d'oh!
2005-12-07 20:25:50
302.   blue22
300 - espnews had it as confirmed just now.
2005-12-07 20:26:51
303.   trainwreck
What do they do with Vidro?
2005-12-07 20:27:50
304.   Steve
Yes, let's take the guy with already questionable splits away from the bandbox, and put him in the best pitcher's park in the majors. The Legend of Jim Bowden grows.
2005-12-07 20:29:45
305.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
I would like to thank the nats for jumping on the grenade/swallowing the poison pill that is Alfonso Soriano.
2005-12-07 20:31:02
306.   Uncle Miltie
301- GREAT NEWS! Jim Bowden saves the Dodgers. Big time steal for Texas. You have to wonder if they'll flip Wilkerson + a prospect for Zito..
2005-12-07 20:31:06
307.   KLV
We can start breathing again:

Alfonso Soriano has been traded to the Nationals for Brad Wilkerson, Termel Sledge and a player to be named, ESPNews reports.

Kind of an odd trade, as the Nationals have Vidro already and the Rangers were supposedly (and justifiably) desperate for pitching.

2005-12-07 20:31:07
308.   fanerman
Hallelujah.
2005-12-07 20:35:33
309.   trainwreck
If the A's sign Thomas then the only place I think we can trade Bradley to is Pittsburgh (Yanks do not have much to offer). So maybe Bradley stays.
2005-12-07 20:37:39
310.   Uncle Miltie
I would hold out for Kip Wells. The Cubs are also a possibility (even though they have Pierre). Bradley could play RF. I'm sure that Colletti would love to get his hands on Corey Patterson.
2005-12-07 20:38:39
311.   Steve
Why am I not surprised by this? If any GM was Baseball's Dirty Old Man, it was Jim Bowden.
2005-12-07 20:38:56
312.   blue22
The Cubs current starting OF is Pierre, Patterson, Murton so I wouldn't rule them out.
2005-12-07 20:41:51
313.   Steve
290 -- Hey, I rese(mble) that remark!
2005-12-07 20:42:55
314.   trainwreck
312-
I doubt they want to part with any of their good prospects and I just hope we want no part of patterson because it would have happened by now.
2005-12-07 20:43:26
315.   King of the Hobos
The Nats now have Soriano and Guillen, but Nick Johnson too. If we had to trade Choi, and wanted another injury plagued player, we could get Johnson
2005-12-07 20:44:36
316.   Steve
I remember when Termel Sledge almost died in our outfield last year. Ugly.
2005-12-07 20:46:51
317.   D4P
Colletti said he's down to two or three potential trade partners with one day left in the Winter Meetings. By saying he would have to be overwhelmed to include starters Lowe or Penny in a deal, it's clear that Perez (and the $20.5 million he is owed over the next two years) is on the market.

Colletti also said of all the coveted prospects clubs are asking for, pitcher Chad Billingsley is not available.
http://tinyurl.com/8u3u6

2005-12-07 20:49:22
318.   Steve
D4P, you're burying the lede!

1) We're going to lock up Gabor Bako

2) Eric Gagne's daughter's name is Bluu.

2005-12-07 20:53:12
319.   D4P
318
Is that Gabor Bako I or II?
2005-12-07 20:53:55
320.   trainwreck
317-
Good job Flanders with the no-Bills policy.
2005-12-07 20:56:16
321.   Andrew Shimmin
This is a day of celebration. No matter how you feel about Soriano, can you imagine what a pain in the neck enduring the, "Why don't you like Soriano?/ How could anybody like Soriano?" back and forth would have been, next year? Jim Bowden may have saved Dodger Thoughts!
2005-12-07 21:00:27
322.   Steve
321 -- Though we'll miss the Alfonso Soriano Arbitrary Random Stat Generator.
2005-12-07 21:00:28
323.   Andrew Shimmin
So, if Bako gets resigned, does Mr. Ned just non-tender Phillips? It would feel pretty good to read that, but shouldn't he be worth something? I can't see sending Navarro back to Vegas, or carrying three catchers, especially given how many shortstops we have.
2005-12-07 21:02:21
324.   King of the Hobos
Reports from Rosenthal are Overbay to Toronto for David Bush, Gabe Gross and Zach Jackson. One less obstacle for Choi. I guess Colletti could now try to get Hillenbrand for 3B (ugh) or Hinske or Koskie. The Blue Jays now have 6 different players for DH, 1B, 3B, and SS. I don't think they'd be nice enough to deal Aaron Hill
2005-12-07 21:03:43
325.   caseybarker
Bowden will spin Soriano to Dodgers for ODP, ha ha ha...
2005-12-07 21:17:03
326.   bigcpa
324 I'm more worried about Colletti eyeing Hillenbrand for 1b. Sounds nearly certain we'll sign Mueller.
2005-12-07 21:17:54
327.   Xeifrank
323. Rumor has it, that Phillips will get signed by the Pirates, retire, then have his number retired by the Pirate manager.
vr, Xei
2005-12-07 21:19:22
328.   dsfan
Why shop O. Perez?

He must have magical qualities to get that kind of dough after all of those medical red flags and the meltdown in late 2004.

He was really impressive last year, too.

2005-12-07 21:19:48
329.   KLV
Mueller would be a good signing. 1 year, 3.5 to 4 million would be ideal and leave 3B open to LaRoche or Guzman in 2007.
2005-12-07 21:22:07
330.   Jesse
i like mueller as a veteran stopgap. .275/.360/.420 wouldn't be horrid at all and he would be reasonably cheap.
2005-12-07 21:22:38
331.   Andrew Shimmin
Maybe Pittsburgh would want Phillips. He doesn't seem to be much worse than Doumit and Cota. They're younger; are they expected to improve, much? Actually, he could be used instead of Brad Eldred, in keeping with that tradition.
2005-12-07 21:32:19
332.   dsfan
Mueller would be a great sign at one year/$3 million. Bet he gets more. Treat him right and he later could become a great utlity guy. As a bonus, a one-year deal won't snuff Aybar/Laroche. Say Mueller keeps Aybar at Triple-A and LaRoche at Double-A. That works nicely. If Mueller goes to the DL, which wouldn't be surprising, Aybar should be ready to come up from Triple-A.

Interesting twist: Conceivably by August the LAD could have six switch-hitters in their regular lineup with Furcal, Bradley, Mueller, Cruz, Izzy and Navarro.

2005-12-07 21:42:47
333.   Jon Weisman
318 - If he gets traded to Cincinnati, will he name his next child Redd?
2005-12-07 21:47:01
334.   bigcpa
If the Phillies would do Abreu for Lowe/Nixon we shouldn't be that far apart cutting out the Red Sox. Lowe/Werth? Lowe/Bradley? Or we get Nixon from Boston for Bradley after if they lose Damon.
2005-12-07 21:47:01
335.   natepurcell
mr. ned's no billingsley policy is a very nice policy indeed.

i dont understand the deal on the rangers part. they need pitching, they didnt get one pitcher... wilkerson for odalis!

2005-12-07 21:49:54
336.   Midwest Blue
318 - Sacre Bluu!

335 - Let's trade ODP and Bradley to Texas for Wilkerson and prospects?

2005-12-07 21:51:18
337.   natepurcell
sounds good. ODP and bradley for wilkerson and voloquez.
2005-12-07 21:52:09
338.   caseybarker
ODP gives up too many homers for Texas. Anyway, Bowden was the one with a real affection for ODP.
2005-12-07 22:05:19
339.   underdog
Did anyone see Tom Verducci's new column up on Yahoo? Echoes what I and many of you were thinking: "It will be hard to top what the Padres did as far as worst trades of the winter. They took a backup catcher from Boston, Doug Mirabelli, for a very good everyday second baseman, Mark Loretta, and saved only about $2 million to help pay the contract of 38-year-old closer Trevor Hoffman. And now San Diego also has no room for David Wells, who could be bound for the Dodgers." (Still not convinced that last part is gonna happening.)

I do like the idea of Mueller though.

And thank God Soriano is out of the picture. Whew.

2005-12-07 22:09:16
340.   natepurcell
how about odalis for mench?
2005-12-07 22:09:25
341.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Sometimes, the best moves are the moves not made.
2005-12-07 22:16:11
342.   Linkmeister
Odalis for mensch? A trade only a gonif would make!
2005-12-07 22:27:17
343.   Steve
339 -- Hard to think of anyone outdoing the Cubs for worst off-season.

I still don't like it, but I'll settle for Mueller.

2005-12-07 22:27:58
344.   Midwest Blue
342 I bet I'd appreciate that joke more if I were Jewish. Rim-shot anyway.
2005-12-07 22:28:51
345.   alex 7
I don't think details of what the Phillies are looking for in return have been posted, so courtesy of USA Today, here's a little help:

Dec. 6 The Philadelphia Daily News reports that the Phillies and Cubs have had trade discussions regarding Bobby Abreu. While the Phillies asked for Mark Prior, there's little chance of that happening.

Nov. 11 The Phillies discussed a trade that would have sent Bobby Abreu to the Blue Jays for Vernon Wells, according to a source cited in the Philadelphia Inquirer.

2005-12-07 22:30:07
346.   natepurcell
even now when we have to give up a 2nd round pick for mueller?

wouldnt the wiser move be nomar?

2005-12-07 22:30:56
347.   Midwest Blue
I'll take Mueller, a bat in the outfield (I can live with Milton if we can't dump him) and a pudgy David Wells (sans ODP and Weaver).

Worst case scenario: stick ramoN in the outfield for however long his body lasts.

2005-12-07 22:33:03
348.   Midwest Blue
If we had Mark Prior or Vernon Wells we wouldn't need Abreu. Get real, Gillick.
2005-12-07 22:33:14
349.   Steve
346 -- I said I didn't like it, didn't I! It's just not the kind of disaster that would invoke righteous outrage. Jason Repko was a sandwich pick.
2005-12-07 22:34:57
350.   King of the Hobos
Bill Mueller is close to signing with the Dodgers, the Providence Journal reports.
Even though Andy LaRoche will be ready in 2007, it figures to be a two-year deal. -Rotoworld (originally from Providence Journal)
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-12-07 22:35:04
351.   alex 7
Also saw later in that article a blurb about Abreu being benched against the Dodgers due to his being 2-23 lifetime against Odalis. Maybe Philly thinks he's pretty good.

OP, Werth, and Orenduff or Brazoban? I think I recall Braz having some early-season saves against the Phillies last year. I would rather trade a few pitching prospects if odds are that in the next two years half of them will lose their value due to injury or talent.

2005-12-07 22:36:40
352.   Uncle Miltie
350- hopefully it's not a 2 year deal.
2005-12-07 22:37:02
353.   Steve
Mueller could be good as a LaRoche caddy in 07 (though a bit overpaid). It sort of depends on whether Grady will be a talent-hater like Tracy.
2005-12-07 22:37:56
354.   natepurcell
Jason Repko was a sandwich pick.

david wright was a sandwich pick.

2005-12-07 22:40:08
355.   King of the Hobos
With Mueller and Gabor Paul close, all we would need is an OF and a SP it would seem. Of course, if neither of them actually sign. Bako didn't get offered arbitration, so he better sign quickly if he wants to stay
2005-12-07 22:40:47
356.   Steve
Guzman, Billingsley, Tiffany, and Vin Scully for David Wright.
2005-12-07 22:42:07
357.   LAT
I know I am way late with this and this dead horse has been kicked enough but I have to say it. I just found 5 mins to read Plaschke's article. Could there be less useful information in so many words. Really, I read that article and learned nothing meaningful about Grady Little. Moreover, Plaschke clearly has a problem with Boston. Was he fired from the Globe or something? Did his car get towed from a certian Boston parking lot? The Dodgers aside, simply put, he is just not a very good writer.
2005-12-07 22:42:24
358.   natepurcell
from jayson stark:

The Cubs and Dodgers haven't finalized a deal that would send outfielder Milton Bradley to the Cubs. But it seems clear that Bradley will be traded in the next few days, and no team is more interested in Bradley than the Cubs. Dusty Baker came away from a meeting with Bradley last month convinced that Bradley could fit. And Bradley's .350-plus on-base percentage the last three years also would fit. Only two Cubs regulars -- Derrek Lee and Aramirs Ramirez -- had an on-base percentage over .350 this season.

2005-12-07 22:43:43
359.   Steve
Not that I want the rumor hammer to come down on me or anything.
2005-12-07 22:45:18
360.   natepurcell
im going to cross my fingers and hope its matt murton because dusty doesnt play the kids.
2005-12-07 22:45:29
361.   alex 7
Philadelphia Inquirer (registration required): "The teams have discussed a deal that would send rightfielder Bobby Abreu and possibly third baseman David Bell to the Dodgers for Derek Lowe or Brad Penny, both pitchers."

Lowe I'd be ok with leaving, Penny not so much. I see Penny as a #2 starter who can pitch like a #1 while Lowe is more of a #3 who too often pitches like a #4. Penny's contract is much easier on the wallet as well.

Bell's OPS last season was .671 so he'd be about the third-best 3rd baseman on our team. Salary dump I guess since he's making close to $5 million. Mueller looks like a good #2 or #7 hitter.

2005-12-07 22:47:31
362.   oldbear
Mueller at 3rd base I can live with.

I really think with Saenz resigning, the Dodgers will be going with the platoon again. Just have to hope that JT Snow resigns with the Giants. At this point, he's about the last guy that I can think of that could take away Choi's 1st base platoon role.

Abreu would be pretty sweet. OP, Brazo, and Kemp I'd deal for Abreu.

2005-12-07 22:48:59
363.   King of the Hobos
The Cardinals may think they just acquired their 2B. That's for them to decide, but they'd be crazy if they start him. Ray King to the Rockies for Aaron Miles and Larry Bigbie. I'm guessing they wanted Bigbie, as Miles is as good as Bo Hart
2005-12-07 22:51:45
364.   Steve
No Mike Lowell. No David Bell. If this were the real world, Gillick would be paying his entire salary just to get him away from Charlie Manuel.
2005-12-07 22:52:42
365.   oldbear
The Cubs have an OF right now of Burnitz, Pierre, and Patterson.

I cant see the Cubs trading for Milton Bradley unless they are just totally down on Patterson. Bradley in CF is quality. Bradley in another OF spot is just so-so.

2005-12-07 22:52:48
366.   Linkmeister
344 Thanks. Funny thing is, I learned what a gonif was from the Rick Brant juvenile books by John Blaine. When I was 13 if I wasn't reading Tunis I was reading Blaine. Neither of the authors is Jewish, as far as I know.
2005-12-07 22:53:19
367.   King of the Hobos
362 They declined to offer Snow arbitration. Someone needs to sign him quickly
2005-12-07 22:53:23
368.   natepurcell
seriously, what are the chances we get matt murton and not corey patterson... 5%?

.05%?

2005-12-07 22:53:48
369.   Uncle Miltie
361- Bell stinks and makes close to $5 million. He'd be impossible to deal too. We might be able to pay a team to take Bell though. Is it worth trading Lowe and paying Abreu $19-20 million in 2006? I don't think so.
2005-12-07 22:54:51
370.   natepurcell
cubs dont even have burnitz, hes a free agent.

right now its murton, patterson, pierre.

2005-12-07 22:55:32
371.   King of the Hobos
365 Burnitz is a FA
2005-12-07 22:56:50
372.   oldbear
368. Murton would still rot on the bench. There's no way he gets time over Bradley, Pierre, and Burnitz.

The Cubs are doing strange things this off-season.

How much would it take to get Zambrano?

2005-12-07 22:58:20
373.   oldbear
370. I thought for sure that Burnitz had resigned with the Cubs late in the year. Hmmm.....?
2005-12-07 22:59:23
374.   Steve
Who's to say David Bell wouldn't go .900 as a Dodger? Huh? Huh? Huh? Who's to say?
2005-12-07 22:59:49
375.   overkill94
372 Do you mean Bradley, Pierre, and Patterson? I'd assume we'd get an outfielder back if we traded Bradley to the Cubs, hopefully Murton and not Patterson.

Zambrano is one of the few major leaguers I really don't like. He seems like a total jerk and I think Dusty's abuse will make him quite injury-prone very soon.

2005-12-07 23:00:12
376.   Midwest Blue
Cubs will not let go of Zambrano or Prior. Now if you want Kerry Wood...
2005-12-07 23:00:44
377.   overkill94
374 It would be a regression to the mean, I hear his OPS in little league was 1.500
2005-12-07 23:02:13
378.   Steve
I hear that in at-bats where David Bell got base hits, he batted 1.000.
2005-12-07 23:02:56
379.   natepurcell
lets shoot for zambrano, but land on murton.
2005-12-07 23:03:38
380.   Eric Enders
Huston Street was a sandwich pick -- last year.

We could go back and forth on this all night, folks. Bottom line, a sandwich pick is a good but not a precious thing; they can turn out to be stars but usually don't.

Besides, we'll likely be getting one back for Weaver.

My sandwich pick today was turkey and muenster on pumpernickel. Sort of an odd combo.

2005-12-07 23:05:15
381.   Midwest Blue
Great suggestion, EE. Midnight snack!
2005-12-07 23:05:58
382.   LAT
380. Mine was tuna on wheat, but I threw away one of the pieces of bread so I'm not sure it was still a sandwich pick.
2005-12-07 23:06:02
383.   oldbear
376. The Cubs have done some stupid stuff this winter. So maybe they'd deal Zambrano. Zambrano is probably the pitcher I'd give up the most for.

Corey Patterson's Career Stats:
.293/.414/.252

And he's played in Wrigley his whole career.

2005-12-07 23:06:48
384.   natepurcell
my sandwich pick was pretty cool actually.

its from this sub shop called cheba hut. its liek quiznos but way better and nicely toasted.

ham,provolone,pineapple, mushrooms, onions on wheat all toasted. then add lettuce tomato, ranch and oregano.

needless to say, 12 hours later, i am still full from it.

2005-12-07 23:07:28
385.   Bob Timmermann
I had a barbecue chicken sandwich with onions on a roll with a side of Repko.
2005-12-07 23:08:36
386.   alex 7
and by all accounts the Cubs have been offering Patterson to everyone. It also looks like Matt Murton is already as good if not a better hitter than Bradley so not sure why the Cubs would trade MM unless we added something to that deal.

Just saw at the bottom of the ESPN page that Jose Reyes led MLB in at bats. That's sad.

2005-12-07 23:09:21
387.   natepurcell
hypothetical lineup with the mueller signing and hopefuly bradley for murton trade.

furcal
mueller
drew
kent
cruz
choi
murton (907 OPS in 140 mlb ABs)
navarro

2005-12-07 23:13:41
388.   alex 7
Saw the Cubs signed John Mabry who can "play both corner infield and outfield positions." Maybe they got him as strictly a pinch hitter and all, but being that they have Ramirez at 3B and Lee at 1B, perhaps they are burying Murton on the bench.
2005-12-07 23:15:27
389.   alexx
Burrell is said to be available. What are the thoughts on him?
2005-12-07 23:17:09
390.   alexx
One of the anti-war activists kidnapped in Iraq is named James Loney.
2005-12-07 23:17:50
391.   Midwest Blue
387 - That line-up would look a lot better if we could substitute names like "Abreu", "Matsui", "Dunn", or "Ramirez" for Cruz.
2005-12-07 23:18:56
392.   natepurcell
One of the anti-war activists kidnapped in Iraq is named James Loney.

okay you got me red handed. hes in a safehouse in the kurdish forest. he will be set free when ST starts. i also have chad,andy,joel,blake,russel,scott and jonathan with me.

2005-12-07 23:19:08
393.   King of the Hobos
26 of the remaining 147 FAs were offered arbitration. A lot of those are guys who promised to decline. Seems like people got scared of FAs accepting arbitration.
2005-12-07 23:23:39
394.   Uncle Miltie
392- you can release Chad. Ned said he won't trade him. Keep a close eye on Broxton.
2005-12-07 23:33:34
395.   natepurcell
argh, do we want murton now, he is a ginger!
2005-12-07 23:42:24
396.   Uncle Miltie
395- so I'm guessing you're not a big Bobby Kielty fan?
2005-12-07 23:45:57
397.   overkill94
391 I agree. It looks like a pretty decent line-up, but an impact slugger in the middle would make all the difference. I'm still hopeful for an Abreu deal, although it would further deplete our starting staff.
2005-12-07 23:49:29
398.   alex 7
If Kent, Drew, and Choi can produce 30 HRs each, we'll be fine in this division. Of course we're asking for 140 games of Drew and 500 at bats from Choi.

Oh, and quit screwing around in planes.

By JOHN PAIN, Associated Press Writer 40 minutes ago

MIAMI - An agitated passenger who claimed to have a bomb in his backpack was shot and killed by a federal air marshal Wednesday after he bolted frantically from a jetliner that was boarding for takeoff, officials said. No bomb was found.

2005-12-07 23:49:31
399.   overkill94
Jose Macias was finally DFA'd by the Cubs. Flags at Dusty Bakers house are sure to be hung at half-mast for an indefinite period of time. At least he still has Neifi...
2005-12-07 23:59:28
400.   fanerman
398 - Wasn't the guy insane and forgot to take his meds?
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-12-08 00:03:31
401.   alex 7
that's what his wife said according to the article. Not a pleasant sight for her.

It dawns on me each night right around midnight that unfortunately there is zero chance of anything interesting happening in MLB at this hour. No trade, new rumor, or anything to look forward to. Then I slowly walk over to bed for the night. See you all later!

2005-12-08 00:08:06
402.   natepurcell
well simers just went up a little in my book. hes ripping plaschke!!
__________
Plaschke, a former baseball beat writer, obviously knows his baseball and was gushing in the paper: "In resurrecting Grady Little as the new Dodger manager, [Colletti] hit a late-inning, backdoor slider out of the park."

But as I recall Plaschke also was gushing when he wrote, "When it comes to college football, Los Angeles clearly belongs to the Bruins," just as USC was about to win 45 of its next 46 games.

Maybe he's right this time, or maybe he keeps his record intact.
_________

2005-12-08 00:11:28
403.   natepurcell
from tony jackson:

The Dodgers' trade talks with the Texas Rangers no longer include Alfonso Soriano, who was traded to the Washington Nationals late Wednesday for outfielders Brad Wilkerson and Terrmel Sledge (CSUN) and a minor-league pitcher. Instead, those talks now center on Rangers outfielder Kevin Mench, who is arbitration-eligible for the first time after making just $345,000 last season.
It is believed the Rangers still are asking for Dodgers pitching prospect Jonathan Broxton. It isn't clear whether other players are involved, but Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti hinted Wednesday that the only untouchable among the Dodgers' large stable of promising minor-leaguers is top pitching prospect Chad Billingsley

2005-12-08 00:16:31
404.   natepurcell
im looking over mench's numbers and they are rather boring.
2005-12-08 00:19:48
405.   natepurcell
so im rewatching hochevar's scouting video and i am going to be super sad if we dont eventually get him signed. he could potentially has a kevin brown type two seamer.
2005-12-08 00:50:07
406.   alexx
What happened to Joshua Wall?
2005-12-08 00:52:56
407.   molokai
Callis seems to think the Dodgers have completely soured on Hochevar after the way he acted during the summer and would be surprised if we signed him because they aren't going to offer him anything close to what he already turned down. Logan White wasn't to happy about the claims Hochevar made against him even after Boras tried to clean it up and blame the other agent involved.
2005-12-08 00:55:59
408.   alexx
Do pitchers work so hard to get a nice bonus because they know the chances aren't that great that they'll make it to the big leagues (because of injuries, etc.) and get a huge payday?
2005-12-08 01:04:40
409.   Andrew Shimmin
398- The part of that story that makes it art is that, despite not finding a bomb, or any other weapons, airport security was still able to blow up half a dozen suspicious suitcases. "Welcome to America, I'm afraid we've exploded your suitcase. You'll be glad to hear that we're willing to reimburse you up to $80 for your loss. You have receipts for the contents, right?"
2005-12-08 05:31:35
410.   D4P
378
I hear that in at-bats where David Bell got base hits, he batted 1.000.

Yeah, but that's just league average.

2005-12-08 06:43:04
411.   SMY
404 You're right. What's the difference between Mench and Werth?

I don't think a 2 year deal for Mueller would be a huge problem, if it's at a reasonable price. Assuming LaRoche is ready in 2007, Mueller could easily be dealt.

2005-12-08 08:29:43
412.   blue22
Steve Phillips said this morning it was the Dodgers who killed the deal that would've landed Manny in LA, Drew and Abreu in Boston (!), and Lowe and Nixon in Philly. Manny just didn't "fit" with the Dodgers.
2005-12-08 08:32:43
413.   Vishal
boston would've made out like bandits in that deal.
2005-12-08 09:21:28
414.   sanchez101
what ever happened to the Abreu and Bell for Lowe deal? do the Phillies want more pitching, i dont see any problem throwing in Sanchez or Houlton into any deal, or throwing in Orenduff.

im glad the Colletti nixed the three-way manny deal, what a joke. so far Colletti hasnt made any bad moves, and all the rumored stuff we speaks well for him. I think the Furcal deal was solid, and im glad he made a good effort towards Giles. He seems to be actually getting teams interested in Bradley, nixed this Manny-trade, let Pierre go to the Cubs for a package he couldve easily topped, let Soriano go, and might even be interested in Abreu.

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