Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Help
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Search
Google Search
Web
Toaster
Dodger Thoughts
Archives

2009
02  01 

2008
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2007
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2006
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2005
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2004
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2003
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2002
09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Summing Up
2005-12-14 09:44
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

My point in Tuesday night's column boils down to this: I did not think that Ned Colletti should have said he "tried everything" to keep Milton Bradley as a Dodger when it's clear that there was something he didn't try.

I'm not saying that he had to try everything. I would have tried talking to Bradley - as much out of my interest in meeting him as anything else - but I'm not saying Colletti had to. I'm just saying that it wasn't clear to me why he didn't try talking to him, and also that he misspoke. And I spent hundreds of words conveying an idea that could have been conveyed in about 25, and therefore probably made too much of it.

I appreciate the support and the constructive critiques that I've gotten. Very worthwhile.

I'm ready to move on.

Comments (56)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-12-14 09:54:09
1.   D4P
I note that you (Jon) responded that you have not listened to Ned's conference call, but have only read about it. I highly recommend that you listen to it. I think you'll find it informative, and it will lend greater credence to your perspective on Ned's handling of the Bradley situation.
2005-12-14 09:54:48
2.   Robert Daeley
"I'm ready to move on."

I suspect that was the Dodgers' attitude too. ;)

On to better topics: how about that geriatric outfield? ;D

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5167690

2005-12-14 09:57:18
3.   Bob Timmermann
It's too bad my father isn't alive to see Bill Mueller play for the Dodgers as he was the only person I've known who pronounced the man's last name correctly (or at least the way Bill Mueller pronounces it) the first time he read it.

I still recall him saying, "It's like 'Miller' who the heck else would you pronounce it?"

2005-12-14 09:59:07
4.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
2 - Even if age has turned Lofton and Sanders into poor outfielders - which I doubt - Dodger Stadium's small alleys and curved corners mean a team can get away with that. Think of DS as the anti-Pac Bell (or whatever it's called now).
2005-12-14 09:59:34
5.   still bevens
2 Im fine with signing older FAs if it doesnt mean trading off all of our prospects.
2005-12-14 10:00:11
6.   molokai
Sorry for my post at the bottom of the previous thread. Even though it was just a few sentences it took me a while to submit, and it seems pointless now. Considering you write a column just about everyday I consider it amazing that I only dislike a column only once in a blue moon. You do a great job and I appreciate the effort you put into this blog. The reason you get the most action is because you are the best blogger. To have you also writing about the Dodgers is just icing on the cake.
2005-12-14 10:00:27
7.   D4P
3
Ben Stein's famous line just wouldn't have had the same flare if it had sounded like

"Biller? Biller?"

2005-12-14 10:01:05
8.   gvette
At the point that Bradley pulls out the old "I feel disrespected" cliche, despite the support of the Dodgers in '04 (and the resulting bashing the organization took from the media)I could care less whether Colletti talked to him or not.

Has anyone verified the Mueller signing rumors referred to in the last thread?

2005-12-14 10:02:12
9.   D4P
Speaking of Miller:

The Dodgers just signed him. 2-year contract.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2258856

2005-12-14 10:02:30
10.   jasonungar05
Taking this all in, it seems to me that it's at least possible that Bradley wanted to move on as well.
2005-12-14 10:03:15
11.   D4P
"Because of his age, Boston did not want to make a long-term commitment to Mueller, electing to part ways with the professional hitter and clubhouse presence."
2005-12-14 10:04:56
12.   Bob Timmermann
In 3, replace "who" with "how".

I ask the speaker for unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks.

2005-12-14 10:05:42
13.   Vishal
hrmm. how much money, i wonder.
2005-12-14 10:05:43
14.   jasonungar05
#9 who wrote this? LOL

Because of his age, Boston did not want to make a long-term commitment to Mueller, electing to part ways with the professional hitter and clubhouse presence.

2005-12-14 10:06:07
15.   jasonungar05
oops. damn u guys are fast.
2005-12-14 10:07:28
16.   Bob Timmermann
If the Dodgers have Mueller, then I'm going to have come up with a revised version of the "D-O-D-G-E-R-S Song".
2005-12-14 10:09:04
17.   Robert Daeley
#4 "Think of DS as the anti-Pac Bell (or whatever it's called now)."

That's how I mostly think of it, yes. ;) That said, the reinvention of the Dodgers proceeds apace. And so far, no prospects gone. I'm impressed.

2005-12-14 10:10:03
18.   Vishal
from the last thread, midwest blue announced that dan patrick has a dodgers/yankees scoop.

they're gonna go halfsies on johnny damon? :)

2005-12-14 10:12:34
19.   still bevens
18 Yankess get him for the first 3 years, Dodgers get him for the next 4.
2005-12-14 10:12:48
20.   Fallout
Signing Mueller is great news. The Dodgers now have an infield that they can start the season with. We'll see what happens at 1st base.
2005-12-14 10:13:04
21.   JJoeScott
Strat callback: One guy in our league had Mueller and Miller on his team, so we all called him MEW-LER to simplify things. I don't think Mueller minded that much.

Nice signing. An actual third baseman.

2005-12-14 10:13:39
22.   D4P
19
And the contract is heavily backloaded.
2005-12-14 10:14:35
23.   Curtis Lowe
It appears that the Dodgers offer was Less Lucrative than the Bucs, either that or Mueller couldnt understand a thing Tracy said to him and opted to play for a manager with less gibberish.
2005-12-14 10:16:22
24.   Robert Daeley
I wonder if that Yankees news involves pitching...
2005-12-14 10:17:21
25.   Vishal
i had a friend in high school whose last name was mueller. he pronounced it MULL-er.
2005-12-14 10:20:37
26.   Bob Timmermann
Pretty much all "Muellers" pronounce the name as either MULL-er or MULE-er.

Except the people who grew up with that name who lived near where my dad grew up.

Not coincidentally, that's the same part of the world that Bill Mueller is from.

2005-12-14 10:21:41
27.   Robert Daeley
Oh, hell, it's probably just the Johnny Damon story about coming out to LA this weekend, as well as the probability of his becoming Yankee. See first story here:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5167696

2005-12-14 10:28:32
28.   jasonungar05
My favorite Bradley quote in all this.

"I don't know how they expected to keep me in center field if nobody even spoke to me," Bradley said. "They weren't trying to reconcile anything. They made up their minds to go with Jeff Kent. They wanted the old man instead of the young man."

2005-12-14 10:29:08
29.   deburns
27 I guess the Pirates' optimism (or at least the PP-G's) about signing Mueller was premature.
2005-12-14 10:33:14
30.   Robert Daeley
#29 Heh, yeah I noticed that. Some interesting tidbits from that Newsday.com article about Damon:

"Garciaparra is asking for a one-year deal worth $6 million-$8 million with incentives, according to an official from an American League club.

"The Dodgers and Cleveland Indians are considered the Yankees' prime competition, and the Yankees aren't certain whether Garciaparra - a West Coast native who didn't enjoy the Boston media scrutiny - wants to play for them."

2005-12-14 10:34:14
31.   Vishal
nomar, drew, cruz. that outfield works for me.
2005-12-14 10:34:52
32.   D4P
OT: Talks appear to be heating up regarding the possibility of Showtime taking on Arrested Development.
2005-12-14 10:35:50
33.   Zak
23 Dude, hate to burst your bubble, but if you're looking for less gibberish than Jim Tracy, Grady Little might not be the first place to go. Gol'dang, that would be a great all-gibberish match-up.
2005-12-14 10:41:33
34.   D4P
If Colletti trades or offers no contract to Hee-Seop Choi, or otherwise upgrades first base, the similarities with last opening day's starting infield could begin and end with second baseman Jeff Kent.

Of the everyday players, only Kent and, perhaps, J.D. Drew are assured of starting in the same position they did April 5 in San Francisco.

Center fielder Milton Bradley has been traded to Oakland, third baseman Jose Valentin has signed with the New York Mets, and catcher Jason Phillips and first baseman Choi are being shopped. All were starters last opening day.

http://tinyurl.com/c2jvd

2005-12-14 10:48:05
35.   molokai
34
And that is a good thing. The upgrades of Furcal/Mueller/Navarro over Izzy/Valentin/Philips are easy to quantify.
Onto the outfield.
2005-12-14 10:48:39
36.   Fallout
34. D4P

How true. The DePodesta regime left the Dodgers with so few desirable major leaguers that it is hard to believe.

2005-12-14 10:48:43
37.   D4P
If what this says about Ned's perspective on dealing with Boras is true, I'll be happy. Depo's willingness to get abused by Boras always bothered me.

But according to a baseball source familiar with the Dodgers' thinking, Los Angeles does not believe its chances of completing a deal for Damon are that good, largely because the team believes that he wishes to re-sign with the Red Sox. Also, the team feels some reluctance to deal with Damon's agent, Scott Boras.

2005-12-14 10:51:48
38.   fanerman
Hopefully the Choi bit is just rampant speculation.
2005-12-14 10:53:00
39.   Colorado Blue
37 - And should have added that they are probably light-years apart in the number of years. Doesn't Boras want like 7. I'll bet Ned doesn't want ot go more than 3 or 4.
2005-12-14 10:53:12
40.   bhsportsguy
34 - That is disappointing because of all the players on last year's team, I thought Choi never got a chance to show what he could do, I mean every day that Phillips or Bryan Murrow(sp.?) played instead of Choi was a waste. Look at his splits, especially when he batted 2nd. Also, and maybe it was corny but the fans loved to chant his name, he seems to be liked by his teammates and you never heard anything like he was uncoachable.

Opening Day Lineup
SS Furcal
3B Mueller
CF Drew
2B Kent
RF Cruz, Jr.
LF Ledee
1B Choi
C Navarro
P Penny

BTW, if the Dodgers do bring up LaRoche or Guzman at some point next season, I hope they do what the Mets did with David Wright, bat him low in the order in order for him to get adjusted and then move him up when his production demands it.

2005-12-14 10:57:14
41.   bhsportsguy
Will this be the last season without a product from the Dodger farm system in the opening day lineup? Who is the most likely to be the player to be in that lineup.

1. Russell Martin
2. Andy Laroche
3. Joel Guzman
4. James Loney
5. Chad Billingsley
6. Other

Okay, Billingsley is a long shot to be the opening day starter but he may be the best prospect in the system. I vote for Martin.

2005-12-14 10:57:42
42.   TFD
Jon: Great stuff. To reply to your last comment to me in the last thread: I think you may be overreading Coletti's comments that he thought it could be saved (then failed to communicate with him.) Coletti clearly believed (IMHO) that the issue was unresolvable from the beginning - - and trust me he was asked about this in the interview process, and it was discussed/planned in his come to Jesus meeting with Tommy/Frank. So this was all worked out even before he took the job (we're going to trade him, dammit!, at any cost.)

So his saying that he thought it may work out initially was just corporate PR-spin. As you know that happens all-the-time. His mind was already made up, he was just playing nice.

2005-12-14 10:57:48
43.   Jon Weisman
New Mueller post up top.
2005-12-14 10:58:01
44.   scareduck
37 - If what this says about Ned's perspective on dealing with Boras is true, I'll be happy. Depo's willingness to get abused by Boras always bothered me.

On the other hand, as Arte Moreno proved with Jered Weaver, Boras can be reckoned with, and favorably.

2005-12-14 11:00:31
45.   Colorado Blue
39 - BTW: I should have added that I think Ned has so far done a fantastic job... he set the trend instead of Boras: by giving Furcal 3 years, Ned gave other GMs pause as it was widely hailed as a great move. Boras/Damon may have to reconsider their 7 years. I'll be surprised if Damon gets more than 4 years especially since he's 32 years old.
2005-12-14 11:00:37
46.   Jon Weisman
42 - It may happen all the time, but I don't have to like it, do I?
2005-12-14 11:14:34
47.   Izzy
Jon-One comment below made a great point. At least when you post something in your blog, you are willing to reason about what you think, and respond. Whether or not everyone agrees, which will never happen in the real world anyhow, you have my total respect for that alone. And then, that you would go even further sometimes and say you were wrong on something or didn't write it well, is almost unheard of in journalism. That's a long way of saying, good job:) I hope you can make a living at this someday.
2005-12-14 11:21:41
48.   TFD
Jon: Nope you sure don't. It just seems to me you let it get to you in a fairly significant way (the childcare post.)

Great blog, Jon. Stay cool.

[Lurker goes back to corner from whence he came.]

2005-12-14 11:38:30
49.   Jon Weisman
48 - That I did.
2005-12-14 11:42:08
50.   mountainmover
Here's a conversation between Colleti and Bradley:

Ned: "Milton, I am concerned about your past problems with Coaches, Players, the Police and Your Wife, can you say anything that will make me feel like you can play here?"

Milton: "Well, I have taken anger management classes and it's all behind me now."

Ned should stop there, but if he pushed....

Ned: "Are you sure?"

Milton: "What are you a racist? I'll beat the hell out of you!"

BRADLEY IS THE LAST GUY COLLETTI SHOULD HAVE TALKED TO! AND HE WAS!

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-12-14 11:44:14
51.   tdw192
I thought Bradley had a lot of potential, but he was just too big a headache for the potential. Personally, I'm glad he's gone. And the farm system just got deeper.
2005-12-14 11:55:57
52.   808Bears
re: Bradley-

We've all debated the facts and points for and against this trade and the way it's been handled. I just wanted to bring up the point that one of the things I liked best about Milton was his passion, and in particular, his love for LA and the Dodgers. People give the "happy to be here and contribute" BS all the time, but with Bradley, it actually really seemed like he was happy to be home, and proud to be a Dodger. I can't think of any other current Dodger (correct me if I'm wrong) who felt so strongly about being a part of this team that we all love so much. I feel this is an important point to make, especially as we are in the midst of re-creating the 2002 Giants. We all could have used less of the distractions with Bradley, but I for one will miss the passion, and the idea that someone wearing the uniform still believes that it means something special to be a Dodger.

2005-12-14 11:57:02
53.   Jon Weisman
32 - I regard this as just a little more viable than the talks about the Dodgers signing Roger Clemens. But we can hope, although the last thing I want to do is start paying for Showtime.
2005-12-14 12:01:42
54.   Jon Weisman
47 - Admitting that something I've written might have been flawed is probably not going to bring me any big bucks soon, but thanks.
2005-12-14 12:03:36
55.   Sushirabbit
47 I second that; and yield the rest of my remaining time to the esteemed Griddler, Bob Timmerman.
2005-12-14 15:26:43
56.   Dodger Fan
From the Times article linked above:

While he lost out on free-agent Brian Giles, Colletti has spoken to the agents for several available outfielders, including Johnny Damon, Preston Wilson, Reggie Sanders and Jacque Jones.

Who do we like out of that bunch?

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.