Sign him to a minor league contract. His wife's not as attractive as Mr. Lisa Guerrerro's wife, but that's OK. Mr. Guerrerro can't sing the National Anthem as well as Lima Time.

I'd pay him 500k to sit on the bench and cheer. Seriously, I would.

My rational mind says I hope SD signs Lima, since he may be the worst pitcher in baseball. My irrational, paranoid mind says I hope Lima does not go to any team in the west because the only good game Lima pitched last year was against the Dodgers when they were in KC.

Off Topic-

Has any seen King Kong? If so would you recommend it?

On Topic-

I for one, fully embrace the return of Lima Time. If not for the pitching than for the whacky commercials. However if he goes to San Diego it will be known as Lima outta time. chuckle/sigh.

If he goes to SD the he will pitch 3 gems next year all against the Dodgers. Otherwise, his ERA will be around 8.00.

Lima might enjoy pitching at PETCO as his flyballs can be tracked down by flychasers Cameron, Giles, and Roberts.

And when the Padres go to Denver, Lima can come down with Tom Candiotti Disease.

4-
I saw the king kong movie last nite, it was really, really good. There was corny parts at the very beginning but i attributed to the story being set in the 1940s. After that it takes off and it is a rollercoater ride. Really well done. You get the feeling you used to get when you went to watch a spielberg movie.

Breaking News:

Tony Batista has signed witht he Twins.
Is'nt that the guy that Sanchez hit in the face with a fastball in 04? If so do we play the Twins in 06? If so, I really enjoy ripping on his batting stance and would like to see Sanchez huck another Fastball at his freakish stance.

My debate is which do I see tonight:

King Kong
Syriana
Good Night and Good Luck

By the way, signing Lima to a $500,000 non-roster contract isn't the most insane idea in the world. Probably wouldn't do much better than Erickson or Nomo 2005, but probably a little more promising than those two were. The fact that no one has suggested this only adds to the hypocrisy of how much Lima was used this year as anti-DePo ammunition.

9-
I havent seen the other 2 movies yet, but i have heard good things about them. I guess it just depends on what kind of movie you feel like. Drama or Adventure.

10
Wife and I watched "A Christmas Story" last night. It's on our annual Christmas movie list. It still cracks me up.

"Fra-gee-lay. It must be Italian!"

9-Syriana is extremely slow and honestly isnt really good. Sure it is kinda of intriguing but it feels like instead of focusing on one topic and expanding they tried to do too much and in the end I felt like what was the point in all this. A good renter but not worth 10 bucks in the theater.

King Kong - Fun, popcorn movie, well made

Syriana - Drags at points, hard to get going, ends strong

Good Night And Good Luck - Has its moments, mostly just good acting, story is secondary

My advice: see Kong, rent the others.

Speaking of NRIs and non-roster sontracts, do the Dodgers have any? I know of 2, Tydus Meadows and Jon Weber. I'm guessing Billingsley will become a NRI as well. We've signed Derek Thompson and Eric Langill, but the former is injured and the latter doesn't deserve an invitation to major league camp (but they could be NRIs, I just haven't heard either way)

T. Meadows had a good spring last year. He hit a couple moonshots. I wonder why he hasn't gotten a shot. I would rather see him in the line-up that "scrapko"

thanks fellas. Great advice.

King Kong is my kind of flick.

My 3 favorite movies

Empire Strikes Back
Raiders of the lost arc
the fellowship of the ring

Jon, you always point out Hypocricy. I aprreciate that. The Lima thing is a prefect example.

Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree. Syriana and Good Night and Good Luck were fantastic films. But if those are your favorite movies I would say go with King Kong as its more of the adventure movie you're looking for.

12 I've been pronouncing it Fra-gee-lay ever since I first saw that movie about 20 years ago.

19
Me too! But I stopped wearing my pink bunny body-pajamas years ago...

What of David Wells? Why has he suddenly fallen off the radar? David Time? Hells Wells? Invite Lima to spring training and have a rotation of

Penny
Lowe
Wells
Lima
OdP

20- I can't fit into mine anymore

If our pitching roster was made up of all #2 starters would our rotation be sh!#@y?

I would rather have lemon juice squeezed in both eyes than see Lima in the Dodger rotation. The best thing that could happen is Lima signing with a team in the NL West and put into their rotation.

21 - Inviting Lima to ST is fine, however I'm not going to include him on any predicted rotations. He'd be the definition of a "nice surprise".

This is the rotation I'm rooting for:

Penny
Lowe
OPerez
Tomko
EJackson

with Houlton and Billingsley starting in the minors.

I know this has been done over and over but as I was reading the BP rundown on the Cubs and how they missed out on Milton it left me wondering. Dusty Baker had a face to face with Milton. Evidently he wasn't impressed enough to convince Hendry he was worth more then a AA tweener prospect. I don't think anyone has brought that up before.

I don't have the disdain that many here seem to have for Lima. He and Beltre were the highlights of that great 2004 season. Whatever pixie dust was sprinkled on him worked and I'll always remember him for some great times. The playoff game was the best game I've been to at Dodger stadium. He was our guy from the time he started warming up and he finished his job in style with the crowd chanting his name from beginning to end. You had to be there to appreciate the game. Even during the season he kept amazing me with his energy. I went into the season thinking he was a PR fraud. After watching him start out the season in the bullpen with my seats right above him I came to appreciate his enthusiasm as nothing but real. Even when he got shelled the next day he would still be one happy man. He is the only Dodger to this day that would get to the bullpen before everyone else and just throw baseball after baseball into the stands and talk with the fans without any attitude. He did this daily except for the days he was scheduled to start. All year long. I for one loved Lima time and just because Depo made the right move in not resigning him doesn't mean we should denigrate what he did for us in 2004.

25-I'd rather we pick up Wells than let Tomko anywhere near the Dodger Clubhouse.

Well..dont get me wrong, I really like Drama too. I loved Traffic-which is why i want to see syriana and I like movies based around History/Politics, since I was a History/Poly Sci Major oh so long ago. A movie I finally saw over Turkey Day was Kingdom of Heaven. Not sure how I missed that in the theaters, that was pretty good.

Of course the Godfather (1/2) is really tops along with Goodfellas, but I only went with three.

27
For those who judge players like Lima and Erickson by their spouses, I will point out that Brett Tomko is married to a former Playboy centerfold.

27 - That may be an option. I could see Choi going for Wells, if Ned gets a 1B. Wells has a nice little price tag on him though.

29-I retract my statement in 27. I was beside myself. Who is Wells married to?

25- why would you rather have edwin in the rotation over dj?

26 - Who's denigrating what he did for us in 2004?

26 - I'm happy to reminisce about Lima's '04 performance.

I'm even ok with the Dodgers signing him to a PR contract and have him do 7th inning trivia contests and throw balls to fans. Just don't let him throw any balls to opposing batters this year.

What does it say about Depo's performance that the new GM feels the need to sign free agents at third base, first base, short stop, and two outfield positions, before even adressing the starting pitching? Are injuries completely to blame, or was this team a total mess?

32 - I don't see DJ as a long-term solution. Too old, too many homeruns, too many walks, not guaranteed a roster spot as a Rule V anymore. I see him as a midseason replacement (like Derek Thompson last year) in case of injury or incompetence.

I wouldn't want Edwin anywhere near Vegas, and I'm not sure what pitching in AA again would prove. It's getting close to "put up or shut up" time for him. (I know - he's still young, but he's running out of places to pitch).

35 SS and LF are both needed because of injuries. We have a good 1B, and Colletti has admitted it's not particularly high on his list of priorities. 3B and a 3rd OF were both DePo's offseason goals, so he's hardly any different than Colletti there

35 - Teams try to improve every year. You might notice that the GMs of last year's playoff teams feel needs as well.

35 Our 2005 3b was on a 1-year contract and our 2005 SS is unavailable until August. So the two players Colletti has signed were obvious needs.

35
Sure the team was mess but our missing SS/RF/LF/CF were directly releated to injuries. 3b would have had to be dealt with again just like last year and I'm fine with the pitching as it stands.
I wouldn't trade jack for Wells considering his price tag, but if Boston wants to send him our way I'll take him.

A pitching rotation of
Lima
Benson
Tomko
Penny
Lowe
Erickson

Would make it worthwhile to sit behind the Dodger wives bench. I think it'd make a great reality series.

I'll cast a dissenting vote strongly in favor of Syriana. It assumes a certain amount of knowledge about D.C. culture and Middle East politics, and it does not spend much time explaining those subjects for the uninitiated, but it is an intelligent political movie, which is a bit of a rarity these days. Just don't go in expecting an action-adventure or a full-blown thriller. Most of the movie is almost documentary-like in its pacing.

38
Can't remember a team who just won the WS being as aggressive as Kenny Williams. If he moves Garland it will be even more impressive. The man has grown into his job and it looks like the WS made the right choice in picking him over Evans.

I guess Jon is right, Stanford grads are indeed a little better than the rest of us mere mortals.

Have to go with King Kong on a friday night. Good Night Good luck is a great matinee movie.

I think it's fallacious to call Lima supporters in 05 hypocrites if they don't support signing him in 06. Obviously there's another season of information and he's now 33 years old. Having said that, I would still consider signing Lima to a $500,000 non-roster contract. Beforehand, do a Bradley test to answer whether teammates and others can work with him -- and is it just DT'ers who can't.

45 Lima probably just had an off-year in '05 due to ... soap...poisoning...

45
Whose left who actually played with Lima in 2004?
Choi/Werth/Saenz
Gagne/Sanchez/Op/Penny/Yhancy

Anyway I wouldn't bring him back. His magical time came and went and you can't recreate magic. It would be a disaster. Just let DJ and EJ do their thing and we'll be pleasantly surprised.

The Hardball Times PrOPS for 2006 rates Nomar and Milton as almost identical players. Bradley, I assume, will be the better defender and draw a few more walks, maybe, but Nomar would not be a bad replacement at all. They both have the ability to miss a decent amount of time as well.

All the talk today is about No-Mah playing First Base for the Dogger, NOT Outfield.

ESPN:
Dec 16 - Nomar Garciaparra likely will decide early next week where he is going to play next year, The New York Post reports.
"Nomar is very pleased to have several attractive options for next season," agent Arn Tellem told the newspaper. "He is weighing all of them carefully and hopes to make the best decision for him and his family in the very near future."

The Yankees would like Garciaparra, 32, to play first base and DH. The Indians and Astros are looking at him as an outfielder, and the Dodgers view him as a first base option. Garciaparra, who has a home in Manhattan Beach, Calif., met with Dodger brass for several hours Thursday.

Buster Olney:

Bob: I'm not going to pretend that at 10:53 a.m. on Dec. 16, I have any special insight into what Nomar is thinking -- but if I had to venture a guess, I'd say the Dodgers or Astros. All of his options are good and they are all imperfect. If he wants to rebuild his stature and his portfolio, he should go to the Yankees, but he has to know the scrutiny will be off the charts. If he wants to be the most comfortable with his surroundings, he should go to Cleveland, where he could play for a former teammate in Eric Wedge, and on a good team -- but he would have to play a position, right field, that might increase his injury risk, and if he were to flounder in the outfield, it would be a mess. He could go to L.A. and play first base near his home, but in midseason, he'd inevitably be faced with a position crisis. Izturis will come back and play second, in all likelihood, and Jeff Kent will be shifted to first -- and Nomar might be left out. Nomar could go to Houston, where he could play first base or the outfield -- but there would be more pressure there than in New York or L.A. or Cleveland for him to actually produce, because the Houston offense seems so thin. So, who knows -- but I think we'll hear today.

John Donavan of SI.com almost calls Milton Bradley "toolsy," in this piece that raises a few questions about Billy Beane's sanity, while supporting all his recent or rumored moves on the basis that he's...Billy Beane!

Don't show this column to Joe Morgan while he's drinking soup.

http://tinyurl.com/73lug

41
You liked Syriana more than I did. I'm a political/news junkie so I understood it. However, to me it felt like most of the characters were very cookie cutter. The story was fine once it really got off the ground. But unlike Traffic where you had both an exceptional story and magnificant acting, Syriana to me lacked both. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't see it. But I was expecting something similar to Traffic or Three Kings and it fell way short for me.

50 It appears, like most writers, that he missed the main point of Moneyball in that you buy low and sell high. Bradley fit the very definition of this.

Of course, if he doesn't trade one of his starters, that Loaiza signing does look crazy.

Re: Nomar. Do you guys think his power is just gone, or was it impacted by his injuries? Is he likely to get it back if he's healthy? He's hit over 20 home runs in every season where he played at least 135 games, but only 18 in the past two seasons combined.

I ask this b/c if we get Garciaparra, it looks like he'll be playing first base. I guess we're supposed to assume that b/c first base is an easy position to play, Nomar will be able to play it better than Choi/Saenz. And we're supposed to assume that Nomar will hit more homers than the old platoon.

With Mueller not much of a homerun threat, the decision on who plays first should be made primarily on who is more of a power threat in the lineup, no? I don't care about how much McCourt wants to spend, and I don't have an extraordinary attachment to Choi, but I want to make sure Nomar's really an upgrade.

It appears that the best home run hitter still out there that the Dodgers might want is Sanders.

More fun from Scout.com:

In their search for production at first base, Colletti has considered free agent J.T. Snow, the Los Angeles Daily News reports. Snow, who spent nine seasons with San Francisco, will turn 38 in spring training, Snow and his six Gold Gloves still represent a major upgrade both offensively and defensively over Hee-Seop Choi. However, Choi hit 11 more home runs in 47 less at bats. He posted a slightly lesser OBP (.343-.336) but slugged 90 points higher than Snow. Replacing a 26-year-old power hitter with a 38 year-old defensive wizard is probably not the way to go. …

Or paraphrased, "J.T. Snow is an upgrade offensively and defensively over Hee Seop Choi. However, here are some reasons why Choi is better offensively than J.T. Snow. In conclusion, J.T. Snow is not an upgrade over Hee Seop Choi."

49 - Putting everything else aside, is Buster Olney suggesting that Nomar, assuming he made it to July healthy, couldn't beat Cesar Izturis out of a job?

Outfield = weak
First base = okay

Solution: play Nomar in the outfield for awhile. If Choi melts down (as in literally turns into butter), then Nomar can step in and play over the buttery slime that used to be Hee Seop Choi.

I don't think Buster has any inside information on what the plans are for Nomar. I think he's simply speculating what a good fit might be. I think the national writers tend not to know nearly enough detail about the team. Yesterday Steve Phillips suggested the Dodgers needed a catcher. I've heard numerous national writers say that Gagne had Tommy John surgery this year. Etc.

To me the smartest play would be to sign Nomar with the understanding that he'll be the everyday leftfielder. The Yankees apparently want him to juggle several positions and be happy in a utility role. So this would seem more appealing.

54
That's classic.

In our search for an outfielder until Werth comes back, why not the recently released Jeff DaVanon? He stunk last year, but he was pretty dang good the previous two years. He's had an isolated patience of over a hundred two of the last three years and has shown some power.

For what it's worth, he's basically a strictly better version of Repko.

40
I think that was the best suggestion for a reality series I've heard in a long time.

I think at this point in his career, Nomar understands that he needs to be able to play anywhere on the diamond. When healthy, he can be among the league leaders in batting. I would love to see him in LF for the Dodgers this year.

10. Jon Weisman

I think that there would have been a little more hope for Nomo than Erickson to produce.
Nomo had a come back in the past that was completely unexspected. He has that wicked forkball. If he could only get his fastball to a decent speed he'd win again.
Erickson had nothing left that was exceptional.

58 Scout.com has some amazing logic. The other day there was a column on Bradley's anger problems, which basically amounted to "Bradley is just another sad story about a talented player who couldn't face his personal demons" and then talked about players falling victim to infidelity and substance abuse, and really had nothing to do with Bradley at all, other than his name was mentioned.

49 That sounds like people at ESPN guessing where Nomar will play. The only thing Colletti has actually been quoted on is that 1B is not a priority (and he said yesterday that he asked Santa for an OF and a SP, with 1B not being mentioned). Olney even mentions why Nomar would probably be in LF without realizing it, Izzy could come back

53 He hit all 9 homers last year AFTER he came back from injury. It took him 179 ABs to hit those homers. I wouldn't worry too much

54 It's confusing, but it's quoting the Daily News, then explaining why Tony Jackson is a moron

61 - I can buy that.

My wife works for Universal, so we got free preview tix for King Kong last week. It was fun, but an hour too long (Peter Jackson is too cool to be edited now, I guess). And the SFX are awesome, but a little over the top. The first hour is slow (especially since the audience knows what's going to happen, and is anxious to get there - no monkey for an hour!). The second hour is non-stop action. The third is, well, you know what the 3rd is.

One caution. For those of you with kids who are interested, I recommend previewing it first before you take kids under, say, 11 or 12. Some of the monster attack stuff might be a little scary. When we saw it, several parents rushed their kids out during that part, and the kids were clearly freaked out.

Haven't seen the other new ones, but saw "Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang" a couple weeks ago. I loved it. Hysterically funny satire of film noir. Syriana was sold out, so we chose this. Good choice!

Here's how the Scout.com article should be written (well, closer to how should anyways):

In their search for production at first base, Colletti has considered free agent J.T. Snow, the Los Angeles Daily News reports: "Snow, who spent nine seasons with San Francisco, will turn 38 in spring training, Snow and his six Gold Gloves still represent a major upgrade both offensively and defensively over Hee-Seop Choi."
However, Choi hit 11 more home runs in 47 less at bats. He posted a slightly lesser OBP (.343-.336) but slugged 90 points higher than Snow. Replacing a 26-year-old power hitter with a 38 year-old defensive wizard is probably not the way to go.

Notice how the original way had a period after reports? Scout.com has terrible editors (if they have any). Grammar and sentence structure tend to be terrible

52I guess the Dodgers did a buy low/sell low move with Bradley. I guess that's why that strategy works: Your risk is always low.

63,66 You're probably right, but after having read several of those Scout.com articles and their authors' philosophies on team building, not to mention the atrocious (lack of) editing, the way I originally read it wouldn't surprise me. Plus my way is funnier.

After Cleveland signed 2 Dodger minor league FAs (Donovan and Flores), Florida decided to aswell, signing Carlyle and Rupe (and Mike Kinkade)

My preferred use of Nomar would be at 2B. Slide Kent over to first and at least you have some power coming from 1B. Nomar might also be able to cover more ground than Kent. When Izzy comes back, you can either move Nomar to the outfield to replace someone who is not doing well or injured (what are the odds?) or you can trade Izzy, or you can insert Izzy at 2B when Nomar gets hurt (unfortunately, all too realistic scenarios).

The end of the Buddy Carlyle Experiment? 'Tis a sad day for this Dodger Thoughts writer.

But welcome back to the States, Mike "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" Kinkade!

70 - I don't think there should be any talk of using Nomar in the infield with the outfield in its present condition.

I may have missed it, but has Kent told Colletti he will move off 2B? Considering he didn't want to last year, I'm not sure how willing he would be this year

70 Naw, that doesn't make any sense. If Nomar can't handle short any more, he can't handle 2nd either. His problems are not with his arm or glove. They would affect his range, which is needed as much at 2b as SS.

64 Jon Weisman

Well, I thought that I would throw that out.
The Yankees acquired Nomo I think in hopes he could come back again. They didn't acquire Erickson. A weak argument I'll agree.

Nomar hit .318/.352/.531 after coming back from injury last year. Nomar's career line is .320/.367/.554. Those look pretty similar, especially considering that Wrigley is tougher on righthanded hitters than Fenway. I think it might be the case that he's finally gotten over his wrist injury from 2001, or did in 2003 or 2004 but we just havent seen it because of other injuries. He will never hit .370 again, and certainly not in Dodger Stadium, but I he's good for 25 homeruns over a full season.

40 Re: Benson

As long as I don't have to listen to his wife's political views:

http://tinyurl.com/ex5tt

70 -

Do we get more credit for power if the guy who has it plays first base instead of second? Kent wants to stay at second. Nomar says he'll play anywhere. Why move Kent to first so his homers will be credited to the "first baseman".

75 Everyone agrees Nomar will produce. The only question is whether he will stay healthy. It's a risky investment, but one I would make.

Don't know if y'all have read this yet, but here's a Daily News piece on the latest Nomar info we've seen already...

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_3313672

...with the additional tidbit:

"The Dodgers also continue to pursue free-agent outfielders Kenny Lofton, Reggie Sanders and Preston Wilson. But they appear to be long shots in the race to sign free-agent outfielder Johnny Damon, whose Los Angeles-based agent, Scott Boras, is believed to be asking for nothing short of a five-year guarantee. Free-agent outfielder Jacque Jones, a former USC All-American, also is close to falling off the Dodgers' radar."

The Rangers have signed D'Angelo Jimenez to a minor league contract. Even though he wasn't particularly great in 100 ABs last year in the majors, he'll be 28 next season and has been good in the past. Last year in AA, he had more walks than twice his number of strikes outs (69/34), and he's had as many as 82 walks in a season in the majors. Not a lot of power or speed, but there are a lot of 2Bs out there that are far worse being signed to major league contracts

79 Now we just need Wilson to join Jones in the fall off the Dodgers' radar

71, 73, et. al

Okay, sorrrry! But I'd still rather see Nomar in the infield than the outfield.

On another note, I noticed that you still have $1.3 mill on the sidebar credited to Ishii. When does that come off?

Just looked over the salary numbers in the column to the right. Gagne's $10 mill just looks obscene with no other relief pitcher making even $500,000. I wouldn't mind trading him, Sanchez and Brazoban did a credible job last year and I think they can do it again. Trade Gagne for a good starter. Or if his value is in question now, trade him for some really good prospects in July. In the meantime, sign Weaver or someone better, knowing you're going to lose that 10 million dollar anchor in July or at the end of the year...

82 Whenever buyouts are paid. We had to pay a part of his buyout according to the terms of the Phillips trade

71 I join you in your grief. I think I was the only other person who was optomistic about Carlyle's chances last season.

Just a thought, but would playing 1B or OF decrease Nomar's liklihood of injury (rather than if he played 2B, SS or 3B)?

83
I used to want to trade Gagne when his value was sky high. Now I'd keep him because what you could get back would not be worth trading him. He's going to be an important part of this team in 2005 and if Broxton or Yhancy make progress toward being a legitimate closer then you can trade him or one of them after the 2006 season. I'm sure he won't be the dominate Gagne that we remember but I think he showed last season that even without his top gun stuff he could do the job as his change up was as good as ever. He was getting more GB then ever before as his ratio has jumped to 52% from 31% in the last 4 years. Even though last year was a small sample size the trend has been up since he became a closer from 31/38/42/52.

Hmm, Garciaparra had a groin injury. So just what does a first baseman have to do a lot? Hmm, stretching.... Hmm..... Hmmm.....

"Grounder to Mueller, it will be a close play, Garciaparra stretches and HE FELL DOWN LIKE HE WAS SHOT!"

83-Gagne is still the face of this organization. I'm tired of hearing people talking about trading Gagne. Gagne will come back next year and be the STUD closer all of us are used to.
The ninth inning at Dodger Stadium when Gagne enters is still the most exciting moment in baseball.

88 - After which he will leave as a FA and sign a massive contract with someone else (Phils?, Bosox?).

If LA is out at the trade deadline, I'd expect him (along with Kent) to be dealt.

89-Why are you so sure Gagne will leave after next season? What if he resigns with us. Don't assume anything.

90 One word: Boras.

He won't be re-signing with us until we beat the offers of every other team

I'm sure if we give him ninety million dollars for six years, Gagne will be happy to resign with us.

Thanks for that, Riccardi.

90 - My assumption is that LA wouldn't meet his (presumed) demands of a 5yr/$60M contract. Nor should they, IMO.

87 - didn't Nomar's injury cause the groin muscle to be TORN off the bone? I concur that 1B would be a disaster for Nomar.

It's frustrating to see a strong possibility that 2006 will play out like 2005, with the only difference being a few new faces in the trainer's office.

91 - He won't be re-signing with us until we beat our own offers. Boras does a great job of getting teams to bid against themselves.

93-Don't assume anything at this point. Management will cross that bridge when it comes, unfortunately.

88 - Agreed. What ever happened to taking loyalty into account? I have always gotten the sense that Gagne is the kind of guy who would want to stay in LA his whole career. I also think (wishful thinking?) that he might offer a hometown discount to stay right where he is.

There will come a time when Boras' tactics will wear themselves out. Of course, he will still retire a very rich man.

I think it would be unwise to trade Gagne right now, especially since there's considerable uncertainty about his arm and that will only grow if the Dodgers suddenly want to trade him. Besides, the bullpen has other talented pitchers, but none of them have proven themselves enough to garauntee a strong bullpen without Gagne. That could change by July. I think its fairly unlikely that Gagne would be with the Dodgers opening day 2007. If he has a strong season in '06, his extension demands would be too high and thats if Boras is even willing to listen to extension offers. If he clunks in '06, we dont pick up his option for 2007. The bottom line is that while we love the guy, you shouldnt keep him around just because he's a fan favorite, he has to justify the investment with current peformance AND future projection. Considering his age, and young guys like Broxton, Kuo, Brazoban, and even Jumbo Diaz around and his age he probably wont justify some huge contract. But his trade value will be sky high, especially high since there are no FA closers available in the 2007 market. We could probably get one or two future stars in exchange for him. Remember Branch Rickey's infamous quote "better to trade a player a year early than year late". Im willing to see Gagne have a couple "Game Over" seasons in someone else's uniform if Colletti plays his cards right.

Don't trade Gagne. Enjoy him.

Is the Nip/Tuck contingent still here? I don't watch the show, but Dylan Walsh was at the next table from me and my boss at lunch.

I always enjoy Ray Ratto (in the SF Chronicle) but in his article today:

"Colletti's L.A. story filled with ex-Giants"
http://tinyurl.com/co8lc

... he made one major boo-boo.

"Colletti is rebuilding the Dodgers, brick by Giant brick. How he's missed Jose Cruz, Marquis Grissom and J.T. Snow is anyone's guess."

Whoops. Last I checked, Jose Cruz is on the Dodgers. Signed by DePodesta. But we all know that. Apparently Ratto and his copy editors don't.

Anyone feel like dropping him a line? rratto@sfchronicle.com. Maybe point him to this blog, too. I have to run to lunch.

Worth a read, though, despite that.

99
Jon - Is it true (as the sidebar implies) that you have interviewed both GOB and Dr. Cox?

98. correction: eddie guardado will be a FA in 2007

101 - Yes. In fact, I ended up going to a ballgame with, among others, McGinley and D.B. Sweeney (Eight Men Out's Shoeless Joe). This was between seasons for Scrubs. Johnny C. and I stayed in touch often during that summer - then after he went back to work, that was that.

I happen to have two Scrubs articles coming up for Variety in January. I haven't been linking my Variety articles lately. I had an Anthony Hopkins interview in there yesterday, but it got cut way down to about 350 words because of lack of space.

Will Arnett was also a great interview, in that he was talking with me, not down to me.

The Marlins just traded Villone...for a 26 year old pitcher in AA that was available in the Rule 5 draft. And now the Yanks have Villone, right after signing Mike Myers...

98-Not me. It will be a sad day in Dodger history when Gagne closes games for another team. I cannot fathom the sight of seeing Gagne in anything other than Dodger Blue.

I understand Colletti's job is to make the Dodgers the best team he can within their payroll budget, even at the expense of losing
fan favorites.

Gagne puts people in the seats. People come out in droves just to watch Gagne pitch. That accounts for a lot.

Gagne is his own man, regardless of his money hungry agent. Gagne is homegrown, I pray that the Dodgers win the west and Gagne resigns with us.

I guess I'm just old school. Theres a special place in my heart, and the hearts of many others when our homegrown talent flourishes.

I'm a grown man who cried when we lost Belly and Dukie.

I still miss you guys.

102 -- I don't understand how that changes your sound analysis.

Trade Gagne. If his name was JD Gagne, this wouldn't even be an issue.

103
That's great. Those are two of my all-time favorite TV characters. I know you watch AD: do you also watch Scrubs? My wife and I just discovered it this past summer, and ended up watching all 4 seasons in about a month.

Gagne is his own man, regardless of his money hungry agent.

Yes, he is his own man...a man that chose Boras to represent him for a reason.

Because one million a save last year wasn't enough to compensate him for all those exciting third-place finishes of the early 21st Century.

107 - Yes, I've seen every episode.

99-
That is cool, Dylan Walsh is a great actor. Of course his crowning achievement was Congo.

The Congo. Isn't that where nothing can go wrongo?

(Who's a parent here?)

I think the Dodgers will be in a tight pennant race in 2006 and won't be trading Gagne at the midseason point. We will pick up his 2007 option but after that I'm sure Boras will take Gagne to the highest bidder and we hopefully will wave goodby because I don't care how good the closer or how much he is the face of the team is I don't want to be paying him 15% of the teams salary. Gagne has Boras as his agent which means he will only sign for the highest offer. Anyone who gets close to a players needs to check who the agent is and then take a step back if the name is Boras. At that point it is all about money.

Rocco Baldelli will always get cheers from me for firing Boras and signing that crazy contract with Tampa Bay.

Don't John C. McGinley, DB Sweeney, and John Cusack have a name for their little group?

Eric Gagne is also the worst Dodger name for Scrabble according to Ken's new tool. Brazoban is the best, Broxton is 2nd. The big question for 2007, do we go with the good scrabble names or the bad one?

113 Picking up the option will do us little good, Gagne has the right to void it and if he wants the money, he'll void it

114 - At the game we were talking about trying to get Cusack to guest on Scrubs. At the time Brendan Fraser was making his great appearances. I still think the Cusack thing might happen at some point.

I remember McGinley on some talk show saying they called themselves the Malibu Gangsters or something like that.

When you interviewed McGinley John, you should have called him Bob.

*McGinley,

119
I was thinking about that too. Scrubs and Office Space is a nice collection of work.

110
I love Scrubs but can't get into AD. I've tried, my wife has tried but it just doesn't work for us. I just detest the characters so much I don't want to waste time watching them.

Has anyone seen reruns of Soap and if so does it still work? When it was primetime it was the funniest show I've ever watched but I've never bothered to watch the reruns cause I don't want my memories spoiled if the show didn't age well.

116
Good point. What a quandry for Ned. Placate the masses and give out an indecent salary to a closer or bite the bullet and trade him once he's proven to be healthy or just ride out the season with him. Well you don't get the big bucks to make easy decisions.

In case you wanted the clinical term for Tracyism:

Weak-minded managers are only comfortable repeating methods that had successful outcomes previously, the opposite of the stochastic pattern that is most likely to lead to current success. Taken to its extreme, it's close to obsessive-compulsive personality disorder.

http://tinyurl.com/a8r7p

122 - AD reminds me a lot of Soap. I'm surprised it doesn't work for you.

Stern's contract with Sirius Radio is a 5 year $500 million deal!! :o

122 - Soap was at times absolutely, positively brilliant. Hugely controversial when it debuted, it would barely register on that scale now.

103 - Jon, I've heard Arnett is a bit of a "handful", especially when interviewing with the media. You had a positive experience with him?

"Soap" had all sorts of parental advisories on it. "Seinfeld" comes up with "The Contest" and it becomes a TV classic.

87 - Left field is no picnic for a guy with a hamstring attatched to the bone with dental floss either. First base does have a lot of "stretching", but it has long been a safe haven for the athletically challenged.

After interviews with Arnett, do you say, "Good talk."? Cause that would be funny.

127 - Yep.

Did you guys know Will Arnett does the voice over for the Lamisil commercials? He also does Ford I believe and some other company I can not remember.

Jon do you have to write Variety articles using their crazy industry lingo or do the editors do that for you?

133 - Frankly, it's still not completely natural for me. So there are times when I use their slanguage (http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=slanguage), and times they put it in for me. It hasn't been an issue.

So who will be the new vice-president (NBC version)?

RIP, John Spencer.

Wow. I'm shocked and saddened.

Oh no! That's horrible...

CBS Sportsline.com reports that Washburn is close to making more money than Lowe. The Mariners would be the winner of the first 2005/2006 Bet Against Themselves Award. Hard to say if they can win the Grand Prize with the signing, especially compared to last year's winner, the Tigers

It's odd how you sometimes identify a fictional character with a real person. And sometimes you blur the distinction. So I assumed John Spencer would survive a heart attack.

And I remember I was just as surprised when I saw Norman Lloyd at work. I thought "But Dr. Auschlander died back in the 1980s!" Norman Lloyd is 91 and had two film credits this year.

139 - And I am not a figment of Chad Allen's autistic imagination.

That's the second time I've gotten to use that line this offseason.

Sad news. Only 58 yrs old.

Leo was the soul of that show. I give it one more season, tops.

I wonder how many shows have been shot, and whether they'll have to re-do anything.

It just occurred to me that Sandy Alomar Jr. will make more money this season than Hee Seop. Something tells me Hee will be the better bargain...

142 Even if Hee never plays. Cuz you know SAJr will play below replacement level.

141
It's probably not a big stretch for the writers to work in the death of that particular character. But I doubt the show lasts past this year anyway.

Ernie Pantuso and Phil Esterhaus. Now there was heart and soul.

144. Maybe so. Even this season was a "gift" after rating had plunged, but I think they've improved a bit lately. Still, I've found the show much less interesting since Sorkin left. The producers announced that they would make the plots more linear, and exciting, and less sophisticated. And they followed through. The writing and acting are still good enough to make it better than most shows, but it hasn't been special for a while.

COACH!

It could be an oddly surreal moment on the show when they probably kill Leo off with a heart attack as well. Sad. he was without a doubt the best.

If any actor was the heart and soul of the show, it was John Spencer.

The show certainly hasn't been the same since Sorkin left but it's still been a pretty good show. The show probably would have ended in a season or two and now will most likely be done with after this one. It's a little disappointing but at least there were the Sorkin years.

It wasn't as much of a surprise when Nancy Marchand died--she'd was ill throughout the Sopranos' second season. But when she died before the third season started shooting, they killed her off on the show too--but not until they had one more scene with her created from digital composites and lines she had spoken in other contexts. It was very weird.

It's a tribute to the Sopranos that the most interesting character has been absent for so many years yet it remained a great show. Although, it's true we still see her played by a younger actress in flashbacks.

I don't watch the show anymore, but I do know this whole season of "West Wing" is a flashback, so the writers can do a lot with the story.

Norman Lloyd has had a very long career. He was the bad guy who fell off the Statue of Liberty in the 1942 thriller, "Saboteur". He did a very credible job on the series, "7 Days" about 5 years ago. Amazing for a man his age.

150-
That was so weird. I know they wanted to have Tony talk to his mother one last time, but the digital face looked terrible. I think it would have been better if they just axed the scene.

Norman Lloyd was one of Orson Welles' theater friends. He's seen it all.

154-
He was apart of the Mercury Theatre right?

155
Lloyd founded the Mercury Theater along with Welles and John Houseman.

Yet, much to my surprise, Norman Lloyd was never a guest star on "The Rockford Files".

I believe Lloyd was just a member of the group because he joined them after it was founded. The group was founded by Houseman and Welles, atleast that is what I was taught and what I read.

That's probably right. The reference sources I was using were pretty hazy on the differences between the Mercury Theater and the Federal Theater project.

I know Lloyd was in the original crew.

According to his IMDB bio, Norman Lloyd has been married to his wife for 69 years.

I think just living to be 69 is an accomplishment.

Ok yeah many actors worked with both the Federal Theater and Mercury Theatre.

From a TV industry standpoint, Spencer's death couldn't have been timed worse, right? The season's not all been shot yet, but the scripts have probably been written for the most part. They probably had something huge in mind for this character. Now they need to:

--introduce a new character to play the VP candidate.

--write an episode they hadn't planned to write, in which Sheen and others mourn his death, and in which the new character is selected.

--figure out a new plot arc to replace the Spencer character's.

So, while I'm sure the producers of West Wing are sad to lose their friend and co-worker, they are also probably melting down about how they're going to overcome this giant monkey wrench.

I don't really watch the show much, but the couple of times I've checked in this season, I find I enjoy it far more than I did when Sorkin wrote it. Almost every character talks the same way; except his villains. Sorkin's work is hard to fully enjoy for that reason.

Is Abe Vigoda still alive?

164-
Yeah

Here is a question for people to ponder...
What semi-recent film borrows many things and pays tribute to Welle's Magnificent Ambersons?

161 - Given what started this conversation, clearly it is.

The only principal members of the cast of "Barney Miller" who have passed away are Jack Soo and James Gregory.

Ron Carey, who played the diminuitive Officer Levitt, who yearned to be a detective, is 70!

166-
(Hint: Even the title of the film is similar)

166 I don't know, but I hope it didn't star Ben Stiller, Vince Vaughn or Owen Wilson.

166 - The Royal Tennenbaums?

Could it be "Inventing the Abbots"?

Jon's got to be right. And Owen Wilson is in it!

Abe Vigoda looked 70 when he played Tessio 33 years ago.

James Gregory always seemed to take the commanding officer roles that DT favorite Simon Oakland didn't want.

168. Does Steve Landesberg's career count? It died in about 1983.

Simon Oakland's first film role was as Dmitri in the Brothers Karamazov! Where do you go from there?

1671-
Jon got it. Both Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson are in it haha. Wes Anderson is a big Orson Welles fan.

"DT favorite Simon Oakland"

???

Which foreign born director first really started using the deep depth of focus shots and other camera techniques that Orson Welles is usually credited with first using or at least making popular?

175 - Defamer had a great excerpt of a Steve Landesberg interview, today or yesterday. Basically it said, I was in it for the money, I never pretended otherwise, I'm not gonna feel bad about it, so quit trying to make me. It was very charming for its honesty.

(Hint: he has a famous dad)

I love the Magnificent Ambersons. I know it got chopped up, and the last scene is clearly not supposed to be part of it, but what's left is great. It's got a bigger heart than Citizen Kane.

I also like anything by Wes Anderson. The Life Aquatic apparently annoyed a lot of people but I loved it.

Very sad to hear about John Spencer. Janel's been my favorite character but he was second.

I watch the show regularly and think that this season has been good with Smits and Alda. Toby was my least favorite character so I'm glad they canned him.

I kind of thought that Alda would win and the show would end that way.

180 -- Wasn't that Steve Guttenberg?

180 Thats Steve Guttenberg. The Police Academy/ 3 Men and a Baby guy.

178-- Jon, don't you remember a couple of months ago when half of a thread was spent (wasted) recounting Simon Oakland's career, from The Night Stalker, thru Bullitt, to Tony Rome?

If he isn't a DT favorite, he sure as heck should be!!

Jean Renoir? (Son of the impressionist painter?)

184 - 185 - Yeah, that's what I meant. But it was the whole career dying in 1983 that got me going in that direction.

He was brilliant as the shrink who explains Norman Bates' psychosis. No actor has done a pure exposition scene better.

187-
Correct. I too really like Magnificent Ambersons. I like it more than Citizen Kane.

186 - I ultimately have veto power on determining DT favorites. DT is a benevolent monarchy, not a democracy. Though I have not yet ruled on using primogeniture.

You guys should be fans of this site if you aren't already.

Sergio Leone and the Infield Fly Rule
http://sergioleoneifr.blogspot.com/

Renoir used deep focus in "Rules of the Game" but von Stroheim was using it as far back as "Greed" and "Foolish Wives".

Welles picked Gregg Toland as his DP because of his use of deep focus and Toland is sometimes given credit for inventing it but he didn't.

191-- Primogeniture? Like Drew McCourt's inevitable ascension to the throne at Dodger Stadium?

Renoir did not use it before Rules of the Game (a very good film)? I am not familiar with von Stroheim's directorial work, but I am not at all surprised there are more people using techniques that do not get the proper credit.

But isn't Welles/Toland given credit, not just for "deep focus," but for the askew angles, looming shadows and other expressionist techniques, in "Citizen Kane." A lot of that stuff was borrowed from German filmmakers.

You have to figure that, at the time, most American audiences hadn't seen the European films from which Welles and Toland got their ideas, and those techniques had not been used in any popular American film, at least not in the sound era.

192 Was that a hint for Simon Oakland fans to take their obsessions over there?

Grandcosmo has four reels of "Greed" in his home that he's going to sell on eBay.

Where's Xeifrank?

197 - Nope. Just thought you might like to know about the site.

196-
Probably a lot of truth to that. It's interesting because my teacher really did not give any credit to Welles or Toland for that stuff, so overtime perceptions change.

196 - "You need deep focus."

- Mr. Pitt

Pretty unrelated to Dodger baseball but Im having a tough time deciding who to keep in my fantasy league. I get to keep 5 of the following:

Peavy, Oswalt, King Felix, Sheets, Zambrano, D.Lee, Bay, Figgins, Dunn, Helton, Ensberg

I know Peavy, Oswalt, D.Lee are a given. I think Im set with Bay as a fourth.

As my fifth, Im tempted to keep King felix or Dunn ...but convincing arguments for Figgins and Sheets as well.

Anyone care to share their thoughts?

198. I'm working on restoring it to von Stroheim's original vision. I only need to find about 40 more reels.

203-
Are you able to keep these players year after year?
Your team is ridiculous.

203,

Not sure what your rules are but I'd probably take Helton.

Peavy, Zambrano, Oswalt, D Lee, Bay, and Felix are the ones I would keep the most. Zambrano always pitches that is why I keep him there with Peavy, because Peavy does have some injury concerns.

203 I don't do much fantasy baseball, but will it hurt you if Jason Bay does a lot of bunting?

195. He used it on almost all of his early films I think. I know he used it in La Chienne, Boudou, and Grand Illusion.

205-

The keeper league is for 3 years on ESPN, so I get them for the next two and the league dissolves, I think. I am deep with 9 possible keepers, but the problem is that one guy forfeited last season by trading his players to compete for this upcoming year. he managed to get Pujols, Soriano, Arod, Abreu and A. Jones - which is some SERIOUS pop. Making more of a case to keep Dunn to compete in the power categories. But I know I will cringe when I see Felix go off with 17-6, 2.86 with 200 ks.

207 - Keeping 4 pitchers is too risky and they're generally less valuable than position players.

208 - ? Yes. Why?

How is the scoring done. You might not be able to compete with the pop, but you can dominate the pitching.

I was just saying I was having trouble deciding between Zambrano and Felix and Peavy.
I would say take DLee, Bay, Peavy, Oswalt, then choose between the more dependable and very good Zambrano or the riskier but more potential player in Felix.

213 - Thanks. But you think Dunn and Helton are not worth keeping? Scoring is 5 pitching (K, WHIP, ERA, W and Saves), and 5 offensive categories (R, RBI, HR, BA and Steals). I like Felix pitching in pitchers park and I hate Zambrano's offensive support. Dunn's BA kills and not much protection either.

I know position players can score more, but isn't it harder to get elite pitching?

124 - I absolutely hated Soap but absolutely love Arrested Development. So... dunno, I'm probably atypical. Disclaimer: I didn't see Soap during its initial run, but in syndication in the mid-'80s. I really did expect to enjoy it, but much to my surprise, I found it painfully unfunny. As opposed to AD, which has caused me to laugh so hard that my sides have hurt.

By the way, I'm a Reds fan - which if I could change, I would have changed already! - but I find myself here all the time reading Jon's great prose and the lively comments. So I thought I might as well post for once.

I was already a DT fan when the Dodgers traded for Choi, whom I've been a fan of since his AAA days, when I got to see him a few times in an Iowa Cubs uniform and thought he was the most fearsome hitter I'd seen in years. I have him on one of my Strat teams, as well. I really worry that his development will be irrevocably screwed by being jerked around all these years. He smoked lefties in the minors, but that was 3-4 seasons ago, and in the meantime he's been allowed to face lefties approximately .000037 times. At this rate, he may forget how to hit righties too.

top ten drafted are all position players except Johan.

216 - Well, I'm very flattered to have a non-Dodger fan reading. Thanks.

Dunn has double the K's of Helton but double the homeruns. Helton has about 30 more hits, while Dunn has 30 more Rbi's. Hits are more valuable as they can be worth more than one point. Uhhh this is hard. Can you search in your league to compare their scoring history?

Why in the world would anyone keep Figgins?

#214: I agree with trainwreck. You have 4 obvious choices with Derek Lee, Jason Bay, Jake Peavy, and Roy Oswalt. I personally would take Zambrano over Hernandez. While I think Hernandez will have a better career, I expect them to have similar numbers in the next couple years and Zambrano has less injury risk just by being a few years older. As far as wins are concerned, Sheets may actually have the best club surrounding him for the next two years out of all your pitchers.

220 He's extremely valuable in a fntasy league because he can steal, score runs, and keep a good average. Remember, this is a "fantasy" league, real worth does not apply. At the same time, Dunn isn't nearly as valuable because he just has power and RBIs

"I find I enjoy it far more than I did when Sorkin wrote it. Almost every character talks the same way; except his villains. Sorkin's work is hard to fully enjoy for that reason."

Ooooh... that's always held me back with all the Sorkin products, the Dialogue No Actual Human Would Ever Speak. Sports Night's able cast managed to work the words rather than let the words work them, at least during the first season; second season had more iffy scripts and I started to get bugged again.

Plus Paula Marshall was on it that season, and while she is lovely and talented, she is also this generation's Alison LaPlaca - any show she's on as a semi-regular is gonna get the axe, regardless of quality, guaranteed.

Alison LaPlaca was her generation's Joanna Gleason.

#220: Figgins, Pierre, Gaithright, etc. have value in Fantasy Baseball where steals count for something. Perhaps that's why MLB GMs are getting confused.

Figgins also has worth because he is available at so many positions.

Change of subject, but not OT.
I'm planning to go to Florida in March to see some Dodger baseball. Atlanta v. LA in Orlando on the 15th, Fish, Mets & Nats the next three days, maybe also the Nats in Viera. Any DT's plan to be in Florida in that time frame? I know its a long way off, but I will need a baseball fix after such a long layoff and the lousy taste of 2005 in my mouth.

So nobody thinks Oswalt is going to have a Clemens-esque 12 to 14 wins this next season?

After all, since the sweep in the WS the Astros have pumped up their offense by adding:

AP story on Nomar and the Dodgers meeting:

http://tinyurl.com/7ecvd

Found this interesting:

Garciaparra and Tellem met Thursday with Dodgers owner Frank McCourt, general manager Ned Colletti and senior vice president Tom Lasorda.

"We met again today. He came out again today with Mia," Colletti said on a conference call late Friday. "I can tell you from my perspective both meetings were very good. They took the time to come out here two days in a row."

and:

"I gave him some of my thoughts, he gave me some of his thoughts," Colletti said. "He was really amenable to doing whatever we needed him to do. He just wanted to know, as most players do, how to prepare."

227-
Good point, it's just he is so good you do not want to give up on him. He has him for two more years. I often have this problem in fantasy, judging players based on real life qualities instead of fantasy qualities.

211 Because Jason Bay is now managed by Jim Tracy. I think we can safely assume that means he'll be asked to sacrifice for the good of the team, move the runner along, get those productive outs and bunt! bunt! bunt!

They call that Tracyball. Don't you remember?

222 Yeah, that's exactly why I don't play fantasy baseball. I can't handle the ridiculous (old school) stat categories. Hmm, I wonder if part of the appeal of the old school stats still spouted by mainstream-media types (i.e., the reason more fans aren't adherents of the Bill James version of the Bible) is that fantasy baseball is stuck in the 1960s?

Man, I hate being sick when movies become the main DT thread. Speaking of Orson Welles, I just Tivoed "The Third Man" the other day. I could watch that movie endlessly.

Helton's been worth way more than Dunn every year except last year, when they were worth about the same. I would take Helton ahead of Peavy given Peavy's arm problems.

Lee, Bay, Helton, Oswalt.

Ensberg was worth more than Dunn last year. I'd take Ensberg or Dunn over Peavy.

I would say Nomar to the Dodgers is looking pretty good right now. He visited us twice in two days and brought his wife and said he wanted to know what he had to do to be prepared for the position he had to play.

http://tinyurl.com/dzbt6

Must have been a pretty lame century.

228-- Based on that quote it sounds like all that's left is for Nomar and Mia to figure out the best route for the commute from Manhattan Beach to the Stadium.

If he signs, would Nomar be the first Dodger player from the Whittier area?

223 I don't mind unrealistic dialogue. It's supposed to be somewhat heightened compared to normal speech.

What I don't like is that he'll have three characters in the scene, and their speech patterns--the jokey asides, mumbled confessions, pop cult references, cute character details--are all identical! I was just watching "A Few Good Men" the other night, and damn, in all those scenes with Cruise, Demi Moore and Kevin Pollock, it's like they're all talking into a mirror. It's why when practically everyone I know scheduled their lives around "West Wing," I dropped out after two episodes. Clinton was too cute, but he was Eisenhower compared with Sheen's character.

I did not enjoy my three weeks of fantasy baseball.

236 Oh, man, that's a terrible commute. From Manhattan Beach it's easier to get to Cleveland than to go through downtown LA to Dodger Stadium.

The only Dodger I can find who was born in Whittier was Wally Hood, who played in Brooklyn from 1920-22.

I would look for cities adjacent to Whittier, but in my opinion, Whittier is one of the places that isn't near anything. Anytime I go there, I always feel like I've been driving on surface streets for an hour and ended up in the Land That Time Forgot.

239-- It's a bad commute, but a lot of the Lakers live in the Marina Del Ray/Manhattan Beach area as well.

Also baseball players aren't driving during rush hour. They get to the stadium a lot earlier and leave a lot later.

As for basketball players, they just don't have as many dates to deal with.

235

Casey Stengel and Joe McCarthy are rolling over in their graves.

240--Only fairly modern major leaguer I can think of from that area was 80's Royals' utility man Jamie Quirk, who was an excellent High School QB at St. Paul's.

Mark Kotsay was born in Whittier. As were Keith Lockhart and Mike Gallego. And baseball's biggest eyebrows, Andy Etchebarren, came from Whittier.

I think Jamie Quirk was a true Whittier guy as he was born in Whittier, went to St. Paul's and then to Whittier College.

It's not actually that bad of a commute even during rush hour because there are some decent side streets to take and you are not THAT far away. Not like you're coming in from Irvine or anything.

245--Thanks Bob, Etchebarren had quite the unibrow.

247 I've tried two jokes tonight. In both cases everyone has taken me for dead serious. For the record:

-- I was kidding when I suggested Jon might want us to talk about Simon Oakland on another site. I was just making a humorous comment on his "benevolent monarchy."

-- I was kidding when I made the comment about Nomar's commute from MB to Chavez Ravine being worse than flying to Cleveland. I realize it takes longer to get to Cleveland.

I guess I need to start using smiley faces. Or come up with better jokes.

An interesting profile of an A's OF prospect - Steve Stanley - might shed some light on why Beane was able/willing to part with Andre Ethier. http://tinyurl.com/7qumo

Hey Marty - are you feeling better? The Third Man is one of my all-time favorites. Have you been to Hearst Castle? Lots of fun if your a fan of Welles and Citizen Kane.

I haven't been doing much preemptive posting this offseason, but up top is one for you.

249. Actually, it is difficult getting from anywhere in the Beach Cities area to downtown LA and Chavez Ravine. Driving on the Harbor Fwy is a form of cruel and unusual punishment for anyone not car pooling.

I hope Nomar joins the Blue Crew. He'll look good in Dodger blues standing in LF and ripping the hell out of the ball -- swinging at the first pitch too!

249 - I got the second one :) :) :)

And the first one was harmless - I was just scared you thought I was chasing you away. Just me being benevolent.

OK, here is something I don't understand:

Pitcher 1 ERA+ : 104, 162, 100, 102, 127, 103, 90, 143
Pitcher 2 ERA+: 102, 93, 133, 126, 138, 96, 99, 131

These are 1998 through 2005, left to right.

Both pitchers are up and down -- either average or well above average. They both have exactly the same 114 ERA+ career.

So why is Pitcher 2 hated by Mariner fans and Pitcher 1 highly coveted? Pitcher 2 is Washburn, whom they are supposedly signing, and Pitcher 1 is Millwood, whom they are salivating over on USS Mariner. You might quibble over K/9 or G/F ratio, but really the results are consistent over a long period of time and they're the same age. I can understand a slight preference based on the type of pitcher or the contract, but I don't understand such hugely negative reactions for one versus the other.

254. they are right about washburn, wrong about Millwood. What results are consistent over a long period of time?

By consistent I meant they have pretty well established themselves as ... well ... inconsistent but often above average. OK, bad choice of words. If the answer is they're both not worth the big contract -- OK -- but they really need to get a grip over there.

250. Im not sure i see how steve stanley could possible make up for loosing Ethier, he has a career minor league slugging % of .365, and he's spent his entire career in hitters parks in hitters leagues. He's also two years older than Ethier.

256. Lets just say that for all the grief we go through over here, I think that Mariner's fans have had it pretty bad over the last couple years. Really we shouldnt even be complaining if you think about what it must be like to be a fan of teams like the Royals or Rockies.

257. No argument there with the SLG%.

I don't believe the A's drafted Stanley for his slugging - but they were definitiely interested in his OBP, his speed, and his ability to play CF. Maybe Beane thinks Ethier is a "tweener", with not much upside, while Stanley could be an inexpensive version of Lofton, Brett Butler, or Dave Roberts?

If you believe in 3 run home runs, you still need a couple of guys on base to complete the equation.

"I don't mind unrealistic dialogue. It's supposed to be somewhat heightened compared to normal speech."

Oh, I get that and am o.k. with it in general. But in Sorkin's case, he's "somewhat" heightened in the same way that Saenz is "somewhat" challenged in the field as a third baseman. IMO of course.

"What I don't like is that he'll have three characters in the scene, and their speech patterns--the jokey asides, mumbled confessions, pop cult references, cute character details--are all identical!"

Spot on, and well said.

In a valiant attempt to remain Dodger-relevant, I remember when the Giants led the NL West early in the 1978 season, and how offended I was that it wasn't the Reds or the Dodgers in first place. See, for my entire baseball memory to that point, it was the Reds or the Dodgers, like God had apparently ordained. So my orthodoxy didn't get seriously rattled until 1980.

259. the problem is that guys like butler and roberts have little power, while stanley has no power. He makes izturis look like adam dunn. The problem with players like stanley is that major league pitchers know that the worst thing he can do is hit a single, so they pound the strike zone and he doesnt see enough balls to draw a walk. Really, I think Izturis has the same problem even when he is willing to take a walk, you have to have some power just to keep the pitchers honest.

261. From the article --
"Stanley hit .290 with a .364 on-base percentage at the top of the Rockhounds' batting order. He also filled the stat columns in the power areas for the first time in his career. Not surprisingly, the 5'8'' Stanley has never been a power hitter, but he more than doubled his career-high in two-base hits with 26 doubles and established new career-highs in homeruns (6), slugging percentage (.391) and runs batted in (46) in 2005."

How does that matchup with the players I mentioned earlier, Lofton, Butler & Roberts at a similar age/level.

I stumbled accross this board about a year and a half ago. I enjoyed it for the Dodger insight and converstation. I am realizing now that this sight is not about the Dodgers at all. This is just a DePodesta site and nothing more. John I've really enjoyed reading you this past year, but I have to say the whining the past month has gotten to be too much.

Please don't take this as an attack, but more of an effort to push the discussion to the Dodgers present and future.

Hey maybe we can sign milton bradley as a FA next year. Won't kent (the porn-stache) be gone by then?