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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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5) discussing politics
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1968: Oohs and Blahs
2006-01-26 16:15
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

On February 14, 2003, I began my multipart series on the 1967-73 Dodgers with the story, "Traumatized in '67" ...

For me, 1967-73 is the George Lazenby period of the Los Angeles Dodgers. They weren't as bad as they were innocuous.

The Dodgers missed the playoffs for seven consecutive years beginning in '67, their longest such streak in Los Angeles. I've never read much discussing why. The Dodgers are struggling in the current era, and the reasons are well chronicled. It's hard for me to believe that today's Dodgers, despite their lack of success, will ever become as forgotten as those 1967-73 Dodgers.

I'm sorry I can't even give you three full years to savor that piece, but I'm moving headlong into Part 2 of the series, covering 1968.

We pick up the storyline with the Dodgers coming off an eighth-place finish in 1967, traceable to the retirement of Sandy Koufax and the all-around funk that followed it: a sophomore slump by Don Sutton, mediocrity in the bullpen, and a decline in offensive production at six of eight spots in the lineup.

General manager Buzzie Bavasi responded in the 1967-68 offseason with something of a housecleaning, ridding himself of eight members of the '67 team, including some True Dodgers. He kicked things off in November by sending John Roseboro, Ron Perranoski and Bob Miller to Minnesota for some True Twins: Mudcat Grant and Zolio Versalles. Roseboro was 34 and winding down and Miller was an average reliever, but Perranoski was the leader of the bullpen, throwing 110 innings with an ERA+ of 127. Meanwhile, Grant, a 21-game winner in '65, was coming off the worst season of his career at age 30 (73 ERA+). The 27-year-old Versalles was acquired to solve the shortstop black hole created by the trade of Maury Wills a year earlier (imagine Dave Ross and Brent Mayne replacing Paul Lo Duca) – but considering that Versalles had batted .200 (52 OPS+) in 1967 with 30 errors, a "What was Bavasi thinking?" might certainly be in order. Versalles looked worse than Roseboro, Grant worse than Perranoski. Wrote Glenn Stout in his comprehensive history, The Dodgers: "It would have been an interesting trade two years eariler. Now it was just a swap of fading veterans."

At a minimum, Versalles did make Dodger shortstop Gene (.468 OPS, 41 OPS+) Michael expendable, so he was sold to the Yankees. Fellow shortstop Dick Schofield, soon to be 33, was released – no great loss in and of itself, though he was better looking offensively and defensively at this point in his career than Versalles.

But in the other big move of November, the Dodgers traded outfielder Lou Johnson, their second-best hitter in 1967, to the Cubs for infielder Paul Popovich, a 27-year-old infielder with 35 career hits, and 20-year-old outfield prospect Jim Williams. Hard to justify in the short term, this trade would have to be seen as a sign of a rebuilding attempt. The 33-year-old Johnson had been a late bloomer himself, with only 47 major league hits before his 30th birthday, and could reasonably have been expected to be headed for a decline despite posting perhaps the best year of his career.

Bavasi then stood pat until pitchers and catchers were reporting for Spring Training, before making two more moves. Looking for a catcher to play in front of 26-year-old Jeff Torborg, the Dodgers picked up Tom Haller (along with minor leaguer Frank Kasheta) from none other than the rival San Francisco Giants, in exchange for Ron Hunt and Nate Oliver. Haller, 30, was one of the top offensive catchers in baseball, with six consecutive seasons of above-average OPS. Oliver was no loss, but Hunt, the future hit-by-pitch king, had been a rare bright spot in the Dodger lineup with a 106 OPS+ in 1967. The trade made sense, but reads like another change in strategy for the Dodgers. Why acquire Versalles if you were going to get rid of Johnson? Why get rid of Johnson if you were going to get Haller?

Topping things off, Los Angeles purchased Rocky Colavito from the Chicago White Sox in 1968. Colavito hit 20 or more home runs from 1956-66, peaking with 45 in 1961. In 1967, however, Colavito hit eight homers in 123 games with Cleveland and Chicago. It was a gamble that an aging player had one more good season left – though admittedly, at no cost in personnel.

Summarizing the transition from 1967 to 1968 ...

The 1967 Los Angeles Dodgers
73-89, eighth place, 28.5 games out

Regular lineup (with OPS and OPS+):
C Johnny Roseboro (.722, 115)
1B Wes Parker (.704, 110)
2B Ron Hunt (.689, 106)
3B Jim Lefebvre (.688, 104)
SS Gene Michael (.470, 41)
OF Willie Davis (.662, 96)
OF Al Ferrara (.812, 139)
OF Ron Fairly (.616, 83)

Starting rotation (with W-L, ERA and ERA+)
P Claude Osteen (17-17, 3.22, 97)
P Don Drysdale (13-16, 2.74, 113)
P Don Sutton (11-15, 3.95, 79)
P Bill Singer (12-8, 2.64, 118)

The 1968 Los Angeles Dodgers
76-86, tied for seventh place, 21 games out

Regular lineup (with OPS and OPS+):
C Tom Haller (.733, 128)
1B Wes Parker (.626, 96)
2B Paul Popovich (.550, 72)
3B Bob Bailey (.656, 104)
SS Zolio Versalles (.510, 59)
OF Willie Davis (.635, 97)
OF Ron Fairly (.600, 88)
OF Len Gabrielson (.765, 137)

Starting rotation (with W-L, ERA and ERA+)
P Claude Osteen (12-18, 3.09, 90)
P Bill Singer (13-17, 2.88, 96)
P Don Drysdale (14-12, 2.15, 129)
P Don Sutton (11-15, 2.60, 107)

So how'd it go? In the book True Blue, Steve Delsohn provides the short version:

"The swift decline continued in 1968," Delsohn writes. "Young starting pitcher Bill Singer ... recalls a Dodger team that batted just .230, scored a measly 2.9 runs per game, and had a guy named Al Ferrara batting fourth on opening day."

In The Dodgers, Stout implies that as Opening Day approached, there was an additional omen of a season off its axis:

Just before the start of the 1968 season, the Dodgers made another monumental mistake. Civil rights leader Martin Luther King was assasinated on April 4, and America erupted. Whille the rest of baseball suspended operations, the Dodgers went ahead and played an exhibition game at Dodger Stadium against Cleveland. And when the rest of baseball pushed back Opening Day until after King's funeral on April 9, the Dodgers planned to play, even though their opponents, the Philadelphia Phillies, announced they would rather forfeit than participate. Hollywood even postponed the Academy Awards. But the Dodgers, the team that signed Jackie Robinson, insisted on playing their game.

Everything Bavasi said about the situation made him sound insensitive, and the organization appeared totally out of touch. "I talked to Willie Davis and (coach) Jim Gilliam," said Bavasi of the team's two high-profile African Americans. "I told them the game would be played but they would not have to participate. ..."

Ultimately, the Dodgers opened the season on April 10 - and were shutout in their first two games and held to one run in their first 43 innings. Remarkably, however, they split their first six games and were 13-13 after 26, sitting four games out of the National League lead. Double the games played, and the Dodgers were 26-26 after 52, 3 1/2 games out of first. A seven-game winning streak, which included Don Drysdale's mesmerizing sixth consecutive shutout (lowering his season ERA to 1.21) put the Dodgers alone in second place on June 9, two games behind St. Louis.

Unfortunately for Los Angeles, that would be the peak. Drysdale's scoreless streak became history, in the good and bad sense, and the Dodgers lost 32 of their next 45 games - capped by a 5-20 tailspin to start the month of July - to fall into a tie for last place, 22 1/2 games behind the front-running Cardinals.

During the slide, it should be said, there were two key off-field events. First, as Stout and Delsohn recall, the San Diego expansion franchise enticed Bavasi with a 30-percent ownership stake, and he left the Dodgers after three decades with the team to become Padre president.

Second, in a a turnaround that might resonate with Dodger fans today, the Dodgers unexpectedly pulled together perhaps the single best amateur draft baseball had ever seen - or would ever see. Stout provides the background:

The farm system, although under the control of player development director Al Campanis and Fresco Thompson, had not provided a first-rate position player in years. Most Dodger prospects semmed to follow an familiar pattern: early success, like that enjoyed by Tommy Davis and Jim Lefebvre, followed by a long slow decline. Dodger minor leaguers, many of whom had been considered absolute blue chippers when first signed, seemed to peak early, and time and time again the club rushed players to the majors a year before they were ready.

The system did a good job of identifying talent but was not adept at predicting future performance. Like the Yankees a few years earlier, the Dodgers signed prospects who looked like ballplayers instead of players who were the real thing. Although the Dodgers were the first team to put into place the now-standard numeric grading system that rates skills on a scale from 20 to 80, they also looked for what they called "the good face" - a ballplayer who looked the way they expected a ballplayer to look. The result was a good-looking team, but not a whole lot of talent.

Fresco Thompson took over for Bavasi, although many thought he was just a stopgap hire to prevent him from jumping to Montreal. In the 1968 free agent draft held a few weeks later, the Dodgers hit the jackpot. Either Bavasi had been the problem or it was just time for the Dodgers to get lucky. After all, if Drysdale could hit a batter with the bases loaded and still pitch a shutout, anything was possible. Among the players the Dodgers selected were unknown kids named Bobby Valentine, Steve Garvey, Bill Buckner, Ron Cey, Tom Paciorek, Joe Ferguson, and Doyle Alexander. Lee Lacy would be selected the following February. Few teams have ever had a more productive draft: none of these players would stay unknown for long, for these "good faces" also had some skills.

Of course, the benefits of the draft would not help the Dodgers in '68. An eight-game losing streak in August ended any hope of recovery and put the Dodgers in their deepest hole, 54-74 and 27 games behind St. Louis. Thus buried, Los Angeles rallied for an 18-9 September to finish tied for seventh place at 76-86, a mere 21 games behind the Cards, four games ahead of the last-place Houston Astros.

What went right, and what went wrong? Well, there was Drysdale and his legendary streak, of course. But Drysdale was something of a key figure in the midseason slump. His ERA in July was 3.83, worse than the overall NL average that year of 3.43. (It's interesting to note that Drysdale only made 29 career appearances after his scoreless inning streak ended.)

Unless they were allowing a lot of inherited runners to score, the relievers were rather exceptional, even by late-'60s standards, posting a 2.14 ERA. Grant surprised the naysayers with an ERA of 2.09, albeit in a career-low 94 2/3 innings. In addition, Sutton rebounded from a disappointing 1967 to pitch more than 200 innings with a 2.60 ERA, aided by a 5-1, 1.24 ERA September. However, the rest of the Dodger starting rotation was below average.

On offense, Haller (128 OPS+) earned All-Star recognition at catcher with his .285 batting average. But the Dodgers were led in home runs by part-time outfielder Len Gabrielson, who hit all of 10. While familiar names like Wes Parker and Willie Davis held their own, Ron Fairly had his second consecutive disappointing season, and Versalles (59 OPS+, 28 errors) was a disaster at shortstop. Colavito played in 40 games, hit three homers, and was released in July. On the whole, it wasn't an old team, a young team, a great team or a terrible team. It was a fairly undistinguished group.

Good news was just around the corner for the Dodgers, if for no other reason than with expansion and the introduction of divisional play, there would be only five teams to beat to reach the postseason. But with the exception of 58 1/3 scoreless innings of glory, the post-Koufax doldrums continued for the '68 Dodgers.

Comments (202)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-01-26 16:40:14
1.   Bob Timmermann
Stan or Tommy should be dropping by to cry.
2006-01-26 16:42:31
2.   bhsportsguy
Tom Haller was my mom's favorite Dodger until Steve Sax.
2006-01-26 17:02:14
3.   Marty
I've mentioned a few times before that I got to see the Drysdale 5th shutout with the famous non-hit batsman. I was right behind the first base dugout too. Best game I've ever been to.

I'm not sure which one it was, but one year around then you couldn't open a pack of baseball cards without getting a Nate Oliver. I must have had a hundred of them.

2006-01-26 17:11:39
4.   Bob Timmermann
In 1965, Nate Oliver was Topps #54, so you probably got a bunch that year.
2006-01-26 17:41:12
5.   Woody
Interesting post, Jon. I learned alot about that era which was the blackhole of my life as a baseball fan. I remember hearing about Koufax's retirement on a Saturday nite during the fall of '66. I was a freshman in college and was on my way to pick up my date. Even though the girl was very cute and nice, I couldn't concentrate on anything, except for Koufax that night. He had been my favorite athlete of all-time in any sport. He remains so to this day. I really couldn't face baseball for a number of years after that and only vaguely followed things until about '72 or '73 when some of those kids were coming into their own.
2006-01-26 17:48:38
6.   King of the Hobos
Apparently Brian Meadows is choosing between the Reds, Dodgers, and Dbacks. Meadows and Carter would combine to be one heck of a mediocre middle relief combo that serves no purpose but to block Broxton and Osoria
2006-01-26 18:43:51
7.   ToyCannon
I can't believe that Sudsy didn't get any print time. At the time he was my favorite Dodger and I've never figured out why. 1968 was the last time I would follow the Dodgers from afar and I guess it was a good thing that I never saw this team play at Dodger stadium. Better things were just around the corner as the Mod Squad takes hold.
2006-01-26 19:36:05
8.   popup
Excellent recap Jon. Those were not glory years, but still that team held my interest. Old friends Don Drysdale, Claude Osteen, Willie Davis and Wes Parker were still around and the first time I saw Bill Singer I thought for sure I was looking at a Hall of Fame pitcher.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-01-26 19:58:10
9.   Izzy
Good face
LOL-That's scary.
2006-01-26 20:38:02
10.   MikeB
The '67 through '73 Dodger years were my high school and college years. I remember during my college days, my friends and I would attend almost every Sunday home game at Dodger Stadium, usually sitting in the right field pavillion, and drinking a million beers. No one bothered to "card" us back then.

I think the reason so many fans stuck with the Dodgers through those years can be summed up in two words .... Vin Scully.

Vin was the constant, the one true Dodger. He never had a slump. He never complained. He always took the high road, even if the team was scuffling down the low side of the highway.

I love the Dodgers because of Vin Scully. God bless Vin Scully.

MB

2006-01-26 22:32:54
11.   das411
Awesome recap Jon, but now sadly I need to show my age here:

Was that the Gene Michael that built the Buster Olney Yankee Dynasty?

The Doyle Alexander that caused the Braves to win the NL East in 2005, was drafted in 1968??

and (somebody has to do this):

That's the Bill SiNGer whose firiNG was due to thiNGs people heard him sayiNG about....ohhh, I am blockiNG the name, does anybody know who I'm thinkiNG of...???

2006-01-26 23:01:58
12.   Xeifrank
Another win for Colleti's and Depo's Dodgers tonight. Colleti's team swept the Padres.
dodgersims.blogspot.com
vr, Xei
2006-01-26 23:40:58
13.   Bob Timmermann
That was the same Gene Michael.

And the same Doyle Alexander.

And the same Bill Singer.

2006-01-26 23:46:41
14.   das411
Wow, 3 for 3, halfway to a "2002 Shawn Green!"

I think you have the spelling wrong though Bob, I'm pretty sure it has to be spelled "SiNGer" now.

2006-01-27 07:19:45
15.   King of the Hobos
McCourt is back to his old ways, he just fired clubhouse manager Dave Dickinson. Also, the Reds are possibly considering Ng and White for their GM position, but have yet to formally ask permission to interview them

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_3441474

Also, Plaschke, for once in his life, is worth reading. Mostly because it's 60% new Gagne quotes, and he really doesn't try to add his own opinion

2006-01-27 07:40:07
16.   Jon Weisman
15 - Other than Gagne saying he's healthy, was there anything informative in that column?
2006-01-27 07:50:36
17.   Colorado Blue
Great season callback Jon... nice work! I was 4 years old in '68 so I really have no recollection of the Dodgers from then. Very nice to get a history lesson. Thanks!
2006-01-27 08:15:26
18.   Daniel Zappala
Wow, fantastic. You had me scratching my head with the part about Drysdale hitting a batter with the bases loaded. I can't believe I never heard about that before, particularly when Hershiser broke the record. It made me wonder what Dick Dietz had to say about it. I was only 2 months old at the time ...
2006-01-27 08:19:42
19.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
18 Me too! Would someone like to wax nostalgic and retell the story?

After all, if Drysdale could hit a batter with the bases loaded and still pitch a shutout, anything was possible.

What happened?

2006-01-27 08:45:31
20.   Daniel Zappala
I found this summary at baseballlibrary.com:

May 31, 1968: Don Drysdale's shutout streak apparently ends when Dick Dietz is hit by a pitch with the bases loaded and no outs in the 9th inning, but umpire Harry Wendelstedt rules Dietz did not try to avoid the pitch. Coach Herman Franks argues the call so long he is tossed by Wendelstedt. Dietz then pops out, and the next two batters make out. Los Angeles wins, 3–0, and Drysdale's 5th straight shutout ties the major-league record set in 1904 by Doc White.

2006-01-27 08:47:56
21.   SMY
and the next two batters make out

Once upon a time that would get you ejected from the stadium.

2006-01-27 08:50:32
22.   Vishal
[20] hah, i was just about to post that same blurb.
2006-01-27 09:27:53
23.   Marty
Franks lost his mind, I remember it vividly. Everyone around my area was saying "what the heck is going on?" after Dietz was clearly hit. Then we just exploded in cheers once we realized what happened. 38 yearls later, it seems like the Giants got hosed. But at the time it was magical. After all, it was Drysdale's fifth straight shutout.
2006-01-27 10:19:23
24.   Andrew Shimmin
The best part of the Plaschke was when Gagne called Baez a middle reliever. And then did it again.
2006-01-27 10:50:18
25.   natepurcell
The best part of the Plaschke was when Gagne called Baez a middle reliever. And then did it again.

OH NO HE DIDNTTTTT!

2006-01-27 11:00:29
26.   das411
The real questions is, does Gagne know he is the smokejumper and CARTER is the closer?
2006-01-27 11:02:50
27.   Bob Timmermann
Since it's only of interest to Dodger fans because of our desire to ridicule both the player and the team, so it doesn't get a Gridde link, but the Washington Nationals have signed Daryle Ward.
2006-01-27 11:07:13
28.   Jon Weisman
27 - No pun intended, but that is a national story.
2006-01-27 11:08:47
29.   Andrew Shimmin
Daryle Ward, math, and music are the three universal languages, Bob.
2006-01-27 11:10:10
30.   Andrew Shimmin
Oh, and Esperanto. Which I once decided I'd teach myself. After about twenty minutes I decided it really wouldn't be as funny a parlor trick as I first thought.
2006-01-27 11:23:01
31.   Jon Weisman
What about John Wetteland becoming their bullpen coach?
2006-01-27 11:26:47
32.   Michael Green
First of all, Jon, great post. And #10 on Vinnie being the greatest: amen.

A couple of other things. One is that in Roger Kahn's The Boys of Summer (a great book, yes, and far better than Kahn's later stuff, where he can't seem to avoid making himself the story), he says that Walter O'Malley had told Buzzie Bavasi to get out to make room for Peter O'Malley, and was then offended when Buzzie left early for the San Diego job. Thompson then took over, but was dying of cancer. Then Al Campanis moved up, but he never got the GM title that Bavasi had.

Also, a question: is it fair to rank Bavasi's trades with those numbers? Were he and other GMs using those figures at the time?

And as to Drysdale hitting Deitz with the pitch, I read later that for the next six years or so, every year, when the teams rated umpires, the Giants ranked Harry Wendelstedt the worst in the league--and he was then probably only second to Doug Harvey in the NL among umpires. Better still, does anybody remember that when Orel Hershiser broke Drysdale's record, he kept his streak alive only because Paul Runge called a double play on interference, negating a run scoring? Eerie parallel.

2006-01-27 11:32:09
33.   Jon Weisman
32 - I wouldn't say I'm judging those trades on those numbers. I'm just trying to give an objective picture of what was exchanged for what. I don't think the conventional stats tell much of a different story in this case.
2006-01-27 11:32:58
34.   Jon Weisman
32 - The Stout and Delsohn books also echo your comments about Bavasi, etc.
2006-01-27 11:36:34
35.   Bob Timmermann
O'Malley also didn't want to do a lot of business with the Padres when Bavasi took over.
He didn't want the Padres to look like a Dodger farm team and he also didn't want to make the Padres good.

In 1969 the Dodgers only televised games from San Francisco and a very occasional road game from somewhere else. But they added San Diego to their TV package, which ticked off the Padres since there was still a lot of crossover it the TV market and the fan base.

2006-01-27 11:45:21
36.   Jon Weisman
We're No. 6!

http://tinyurl.com/9c3nc

Plus, more evidence that Delaware exists.

2006-01-27 11:59:10
37.   Bob Timmermann
I saw "Capricorn One" so I'm naturally skeptical.
2006-01-27 12:00:38
38.   natepurcell
who else would be mad if we lose logan white to the reds?
2006-01-27 12:05:11
39.   popup
#36, Jon, for even more evidence I can tell you I grew up in Delaware. In fact, I became at Dodger fan when I was living there.

Stan from Tacoma by way of Wilmington, Delaware

2006-01-27 12:07:15
40.   gvette
According to his autobiography, Bavasi knew it was only a matter of time before Peter O'Malley came to Los Angeles, so he took a part ownership/President position with the Padres.

Also, as part of the expansion draft, he was ready to take Bill Russell, and reliever Jim Brewer from the Dodgers. But ailing Fresco Thompson told him that the two had mistakenly been unprotected and asked him not to. As a favor, he took Al Ferrara (bad ankle) and Zoilo Versailles (bad back).

Drysdale usually matched up with the opponents ace. In his shutout streak, he beat Ferguson Jenkins, and Bob Gibson.

2006-01-27 12:11:52
41.   popup
#38, I suspect Logan White will get a chance to be a GM somewhere in the near future. For his sake, I hope it is a place where there is a stable owner.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-01-27 12:30:45
42.   natepurcell
oh lookie, becker is on!
2006-01-27 12:39:05
43.   ToyCannon
BP Pecota projections are out:
Some very interesting numbers.
1. Beltre bounceback with a EQSlug = 500. For players 27 years old he ranks number 6 in vorp.
2. Projecting good years from Kent(41), Furcal(33), Drew(33), Mueller(20)
3. Projecting bad years from Nomar(14.4), Lofton(8), Cruz(13.5)
4. Projecting a good season from Choi if he gets the at bats(ha ha)
5. Dionar comes in at 10.4 which given his position and age is acceptable however Martin projects to be the better player right now with a 12.9. To put that in perspective Brian McCann the 1st year catcher for the Braves projects to a 21. Werth looks to have a decent bounce back at 17.
Surprises:
Our D Young comes in at 17.9 with solid power but lacking OBP.
Joel Guzman would post a better VORP then Nomar at 16.3
Travis Denker at 20 makes a surprise visit and actually projects a positive Vorp of 1.8.
2006-01-27 13:03:17
44.   ToyCannon
NL West Pecota Projections:
Lname Fname Team Vorp
Webb Brandon ARI 38.4
ValverdeJose ARI 11.3
Halsey Brad ARI 10.9
Vargas Claudio ARI 10.3
Medders Brandon ARI 8.0
Owings Micah ARI 6.8
GonzalezEdgar ARI 6.4
HernandezOrlandoARI 5.7
VizcainoLuis ARI 5.0
Mock Garrett ARI 4.9
Batista Miguel ARI 3.5
Bruney Brian ARI 3.4
Lyon Brandon ARI 2.9
Aquino Greg ARI 2.6
GonzalezEnrique ARI 0.9
Nippert Dustin ARI 0.9
ARI Total 121.9

Francis Jeff COL 18.5
Kim Byung COL 13.7
Fuentes Brian COL 11.3
JenningsJason COL 10.3
Cook Aaron COL 6.5
Dejean Mike COL 5.3
Yabu Keichi COL 4.8
Acevedo Jose COL 4.7
Kim Sun-Woo COL 4.5
King Ray COL 3.9
Cortes David COL 3.5
Dohmann Scott COL 3.3
Day Zach COL 2.6
Tsao COL 2.1
COL Total 95.0

Penny Brad LAN 27.8
Gagne Eric LAN 25.1
Lowe Derek LAN 21.2
Perez Odalis LAN 18.8
BillingsleyChad LAN 14.4
Seo Jae LAN 14.3
Tomko Brett LAN 11.6
Baez Danny LAN 8.4
Osoria Franq LAN 5.7
Broxton Jon LAN 5.3
Houlton D.J. LAN 3.8
HamulackTim LAN 3.7
Wunsch Kelly LAN 3.7
Kuo LAN 2.2
BrazobanYhency LAN 1.8
LAN Total 167.8

Peavy Jake SDN 52.9
Young Chris SDN 14.5
LinebrinkScott SDN 11.5
CarrilloCesar SDN 9.0
Hoffman Trevor SDN 7.9
WilliamsWoody SDN 7.1
StaufferTim SDN 5.7
Estes Shawn SDN 5.3
Hammond Chris SDN 2.7
Hensley Clay SDN 2.4
Baker Brad SDN 2.1
Cassidy Scott SDN 1.3
Meaux Ryan SDN 1.3
Park Chan_Ho SDN -0.7
BrazeltonDewon SDN -2.6
SDN Total 120.4

Schmidt Jason SFN 37.4
Lowry Noah SFN 23.4
Morris Matt SFN 21.8
Cain Matt SFN 14.6
Hawkins Latroy SFN 7.5
Wright Jamey SFN 7.2
Eyre Scott SFN 5.6
Walker Tyler SFN 5.6
Worrell Tim SFN 3.8
Accardo Jeremy SFN 3.6
Kline Steve SFN 3.3
Benitez Armando SFN 3.2
Munter Scott SFN 2.6
HennesseyBrad SFN 1.6
SFN Total 141.2











Grand Total 646.3

2006-01-27 13:19:24
45.   fawnkyj
44-
Bonds pecota is not added to the giants, is there a reason why?
2006-01-27 13:20:12
46.   fawnkyj
whoops forget it, its pitchers only. got it.
2006-01-27 13:26:36
47.   oldbear
Ned Colletti was a pretty poor hire IMO, but it could be worse.

Pat Gillick traded CF-Jason Michaels to the Indians, for RP-Arthur Rhodes.

Hmmm....Lemme think. Can I trade a starting everyday player, for a middle reliever... whom?

I guess Gillick saw something no else did. What he saw, I'm not sure.

Looks like a steal for the Tribe, especially considering each player's salary/effectiveness

2006-01-27 13:32:57
48.   das411
I'm thinking Gillick saw Rhodes pitching in Safeco Field still. --shudder--

JMike is really not good enough to be a starter though, I guess most of MLB has figured that out finally.

2006-01-27 13:35:37
49.   natepurcell
any new news on that kearns for westbrooke deal?
2006-01-27 13:51:18
50.   ToyCannon
47
Since when has Jason Michaels been an everyday starting player in the major leagues?
Still a lousy return for him but at least let's get the facts straight.

FYI-Shane Victorina has a higher projected Vorp then Lofton and Michaels. For a team with no depth in the OF last year, Depo really blew it by not buying him back after he didn't make the Phillie team last spring.

Pecota expects Bonds to post the highest VORP in the NL other then Pujols at 85.1 with 642 plate appearances. I'd bet the under on that with my life.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-01-27 13:55:53
51.   oldbear
Michaels should be an every day player.
2006-01-27 14:01:01
52.   Jon Weisman
Is Victorino that much different from the other AAAA outfielders the Dodgers had? I can't imagine he would have made much difference in 2005.
2006-01-27 14:03:48
53.   oldbear
Why does Pecota love Shane Victorino? He only got 17AB's last year with the Phillies, and has been cut from the Dodgers, Padres, and Phillies.

Jason Michaels 2005
ABs- 289
BA- .304
OBP- .399
SLG- .415

I suppose you could argue he should SLG more playing in Philly, but that still doesnt explain why Pecota thinks Lofton/Victorino will do more VORP wise....

2006-01-27 14:05:56
54.   das411
50 - I learned to never bet against Pujols on one painful pitch during the NLCS...

oh, you meant take the under on Bonds.

52 - Neither Victorino or JMike are upgrades at all, but one of them could have added to the all-Jason bench.

2006-01-27 14:16:43
55.   oldbear
I'm really surprised Michaels has never gotten a full time shot. His numbers have been good every year in the MLB's.

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=phi&playerID=346859

Maybe he's the "Choi" of the Phillies.

2006-01-27 14:18:58
56.   das411
55 - If Hee Seop has ever punched out a police officer in a bar fight, then yes.
2006-01-27 15:10:43
57.   ToyCannon
52
Didn't recall Ross,Repko,Feng,Edwards doing the damage that Victorino did last year in a real league not the hit crazy PCL. He's only 25 and I guess BP expects the power he showed last year to be real since they project a 450 Slug% which for a CF is a sweet deal. He also projects higher then the CF they traded for, Mr. Rowand.
2006-01-27 15:25:19
58.   oldbear
At the time Victorino was taken off the Dodger roster, subsequently Cody Ross was put on.

Cody Ross was the better prospect at the time.

In the Int'll league at age 22, Cody Ross put up .287/.333/.515

Thats really not that far off from what Victorino did this past year in the Int'll league, at age 24.

Since Cody Ross didnt make it, and he had as good if not more impressive numbers as a prospect/age/league ratio, I'm surprised Pecota is so generous with Victorino.

I dont think the Dodgers miss Victorino at all. He'd be behind Guzman, Ruggiano, Matt Kemp, and maybe Andre Ethier on the OF minor league talent depth chart.

2006-01-27 15:25:31
59.   FelixP
hey, first time/long time. Lay off George Lazenby, he did a fine job (better than Sean in Diamonds are Forver) in perhaps the most underrated Bond movie.
2006-01-27 15:26:32
60.   Xeifrank
Good games for Colleti's and Depo's Dodgers in the NL West preseason sim league. Colleti's team knocked off the Rockies 16-6 pounding the Giants into submission. J.Cruz got the game MVP. Depo's team got a solid pitching performance from Odalis Perez and leadoff man Antonio Perez went 5 for 5 as they beat the Rockies. In the other game the DBacks behind Brad Halsey shutout the Padres, losers of four in a row 3-0. Two more rounds of games coming tonight.
DodgerSims.Blogspot.com
vr, Xei
2006-01-27 15:35:06
61.   oldbear
60. Is your simulation software as realistic, as say if someone were to import each roster onto playstation MLB 07 and run a simulation that way?

Or is your programming better? I know most video games will at least have some random injury situations arise that cant be forecast.

2006-01-27 15:40:49
62.   FelixP
hey, first time/long time. Lay off George Lazenby, he did a fine job (better than Sean in Diamonds are Forver) in perhaps the most underrated Bond movie.
2006-01-27 16:04:42
63.   LAT
62. Sorry Felix by virtue of 59, you are not a first itme poster anymore;-)
2006-01-27 16:05:38
64.   ToyCannon
53
Shane Victorino has not been cut by anyone ever. He was a rule 5 pick by the Padres who actually made the ML team in 2003 even though he had never played above AA. During the year they needed the roster spot and had to offer him back to LA and Evans accepted. He was left unprotected by Depodesta in 2005 and was picked by the Phillies in the Rule 5 of 2005 and did not make the team out of SP and was offered back to the Dodgers and Depodesta declined. He went on to be the International League player of the year.
His Pecota comps are Jose Cardenal, Juan Beniquez, Jim Piersall. If you don't think we could use a 24 year old AAA center fielder who was player of the year then I guess you have a lot more confidence in Ledee/Werth/Lofton then I do.
2006-01-27 16:07:33
65.   ToyCannon
I was watching the ad's for the "Matador" and thought how cool it would be if someone could come up with a great screenplay that could incorporate all of the Bonds that are still alive. David Niven has passed on and I'm not sure about Lazenby.
2006-01-27 16:14:32
66.   Jon Weisman
Lazenby is enjoying life as Mr. Pam Shriver, I believe.
2006-01-27 16:25:19
67.   ToyCannon
52
Except Ross peaked at 22 and has been in decline ever since. Picking him up from Detroit was a good gamble in 2004 but evidently his injury has kept him from reaching the potential he showed in 2002. If I'd had a choice in April/2005 between Cody Ross and Victorino I'd have taken Victorino simply because he's a CF and the only CF in our system at the time was Milton. You could simply argue that letting Erickson fill a spot on the 40 man roster instead of accepting Victorino back was the biggest mistake of Depo's tenure. Would it have changed the outcome of last season, of course not but to say it wasn't a mistake is wrong. The team did not have a legitimate AAA CF at the time he was offered back to us.
2006-01-27 16:26:40
68.   Jon Weisman
59 - Welcome, Felix. I did not mean to put down George. :) The 67-73 Dodgers had their moments, too, I believe we'll find by the time I complete this series, sometime by 2024.
2006-01-27 16:28:50
69.   Jon Weisman
67 - I'm not saying Victorino can't carve out some kind of career, but I think you're giving his fate too much significance.
2006-01-27 16:37:04
70.   ToyCannon
Maybe, I just feel Depo totally undervalued speedy left hand hitting center fielders during his tenure here. Evidently 4th outfielders don't grow on trees or we wouldn't have seen the drecks that showed up in our outfield last year.
2006-01-27 16:48:45
71.   Jon Weisman
70 - But again, last year, Victorino would probably have done very little.

Given that Drew and Bradley are fairly athletic left-handed players who can play centerfield, it's hard to say DePo totally undervalues them.

Dodger outfielders in the organization last April included:
1) Drew
2) Bradley
3) Werth
4) Ledee
5) Repko
6) Grabowski
7) Edwards
8) Chen
9) C. Ross

(I'm ignoring Valentin and A. Perez, because they were really emergency outfielders)

Victorino OPSed .613 in 200 AB in Las Vegas in 2004. Where should DePo have ranked Victorino on the above list? Maybe ahead of Edwards, Grabowski and Chen as far as the future was concerned. But as far as 2005 was concerned, I'm not sure Victorino wouldn't rightfully have been considered No. 10.

2006-01-27 16:55:29
72.   dsfan
53 --

The Padres didn't jettison Victorino because of roster pressure. They determined that he wasn't worth keeping. Poor routes in the OF, inept as a leadoff man, in way over his head. They took a flyer on him and it didn't work out. He was a bad player on a team that was en route to 98 defeats, worst in the NL.

70 -- Depo admitted that the Roberts trade was a bad one. Didn't specify whether it was bad to trade him or that he could've obtained more value in return. A few months later, Theo Epstein got a lot more for DR than Depo did.

2006-01-27 16:58:45
73.   dsfan
If you want to attack Depo for his work with reserves, there are better examples than Victorino.

Namely, the infatuation with Grabowski. Tracy should've hired a hit man to take care of that no-hit man.

2006-01-27 16:59:29
74.   ToyCannon
Maybe but in the same year of 2004 he started out at AA and OPSed 959 in Jacksonville as a CF at the age of 23. Those 200 at bats in AAA were his 1st exposure to AAA. His 2005 season didn't come out of thin air. Did anyone from the famed Sun team of 2005 OPS over 950?
2006-01-27 17:02:16
75.   ToyCannon
73
I'm not attacking Depo, simply saying not spending 25,000 to get back Victorino was not one of his better moves.

As far as Victorino and the Padres, yes he sucked as do most Rule 5 players who did not get enough development time before they are rudely thrust into the major leagues. That is why it is a rarity when a positional rule 5 actually ever makes a difference the year they are chosen.

2006-01-27 17:03:48
76.   natepurcell
Did anyone from the famed Sun team of 2005 OPS over 950?

actually, justin ruggianno, another 23 yr old CFer, OPSed 950 for the suns last year.

2006-01-27 17:06:16
77.   Jon Weisman
75 - I agree that the nice stats at Jacksonville might ahve warranted a second look.

But you were making statements like "Depo really blew it " and "You could simply argue that letting Erickson fill a spot on the 40 man roster instead of accepting Victorino back was the biggest mistake of Depo's tenure" and "Depo totally undervalued speedy left hand hitting center fielders during his tenure here".

We're responding to those statements, which were more intense than the "not one of his better moves" of 75.

Ah, but 'twas a dull day here until the Shane Victorino debate began - so thanks :)

2006-01-27 17:26:02
78.   ToyCannon
Blame it on BP, they were the ones to come up with the promising Pecota projection. This was discussed on this board at the end of last year when Victorino won the IL player of the year but I don't think anyone thought of him as anything more then a 4th outfielder which is probably still true but it looks like he could be a valuable 4th outfielder instead of the run of the mill dreck that populate the major leagues.
2006-01-27 17:38:26
79.   Jon Weisman
Jose Hernandez has become the latest ex-Dodger in Pittsburgh.
2006-01-27 18:12:39
80.   ToyCannon
Pecota projects the starting Pitt infield to have a combined VORP of 50. Dodgers double that with 101. Furcal(33), Kent(33), Mueller(20), Nomar(weak link of 14). Choi gets 18.
2006-01-27 19:15:04
81.   blue2thebone
Jon, 1967 was my 1st year as a Dodger fan. I was 8 years old, and my dad took me Dodger Stadium for the 1st time to see the Dodgers/Phillies. The Dodgers won 1-0 on a solo HR by "sweet" Lou Johnson. Not exactly fireworks, but enough to plant the Dodger seed in me.

You would think the lack of offense would make things unbearable, but Vinny kept the emphasis on strong pitching. I remember listening to that game in 1968 when Drysdale hit Dick Dietz with the bases loaded and still got the shutout! But I couldn't understand how no one could hit more than 10 HR's that year.

Of course, 1968 was a BIG pitching year...besides Drysdale's scoreless steak, Denny McClain won 31 games, & Bob Gibson had a phenomenal 1.12 ERA!

Actually, I spent most of 1968 watching Cey, Russell, Lacy, & Paciorek play 'A' ball in Bakersfield. Man, that was a big piece of my childhood, watching Rau, Yeager, & others work their way through the system.

I also remember the 'revolving door' at 3rd base which included the likes of Bill Sudakis & Billy Grabarkewitz, who was a write-in all-star in 1969. I remember the 31 game hitting steak of Willie Davis, and Jim Brewer coming in from the pen a dozen or so times a year to face Willie McCovey with his screwball.

Forgive me for ramblin', but it brings back a lot of good memories of bad years leading up to the 1974 World Series team.

2006-01-27 19:53:19
82.   King of the Hobos
The Marte-Crisp deal is finally done. For all their troubles, the Indians did manage to get a PTBNL

In other PTBNL news, the Yankees are due to give us one by Sunday. Or we could get cash. Or we already received cash and I missed it

2006-01-27 20:08:26
83.   regfairfield
With Michaels and Crisp somewhat equivelant (Michaels .400 OBP certainly makes things lean in his favor) the Indians got one of the top prospects in baseball, a catcher who can mash and has drawn praise for his defense, and a player to be named later for the net loss of one middle reliever and a backup catcher.

Wow.

2006-01-27 20:22:35
84.   Bob Timmermann
Grabarkewitz made the All-Star team in 1970, but he was a selection by manager Gil Hodges. I believe the only write-ins who have been elected since voting reached something similar to today's form have been Rico Carty in 1970 and Steve Garvey in 1974.
2006-01-27 21:10:51
85.   norcalblue
23...Marty your description is exactly as I remember it to be. I was 14 and sitting in the upper reserved, 3rd base side with my grandfather...it was magical indeed!
2006-01-27 21:14:34
86.   natepurcell
if shapiro can trade westbrokke for kearns and get weaver on a 1 yr deal, the indians are looking way solid for next year! that lineup is young and treendously talented.

cf- grady sizemore
lf- jason michaels
ss- jhonny peralta
DH- travis hafner
C- Victor Martinez
RF- Austin Kearns
3b- andy marte
1b- ben broussard
2b- ronnie belliard

thats a pretty dynamite lineup. the only hole is 1b, but that could be fixable.

2006-01-27 21:29:07
87.   trainwreck
Too bad they are still going to play Aaron Boone at third base.
2006-01-27 21:33:30
88.   Louis in SF
WOnderful recap Jon. This is the era that I started following the Dodgers closely and had a family friend who was an usher at Dodger Stadium. After school was out we used to go to Dodger Stadium and watch from the upper deck. We often got to Dodger Stadium around 4:30 for what was then 8pm games-saw lots of batting practice. Head usher at Dodger stadium during that time was my future High School English teacher

One great triva question about Paul Popovich was the fact that he played on Jerry West's West Virginia Team that went to the finals.

What is often forgotten on those late 60's team was the pitching of Claude Osteen. Although he was a 500 pitcher most of the time, his ability to eat innings was amazing.

Speaking of Tom Haller I remember a game, Bob should be able to call it up, where the Dodgers were down by quite a bit to the Montreal Expos. Believe the score was like 7-0, Expos in the 6th or 7th inning. We left early an unusal experience for us, and on the way home heard the Dodgers tie it on Haller's hommer. They eventually won and I alwasy felt cheated that we didn't stay! One of the few highlights in those years.

2006-01-27 21:49:35
89.   Bob Timmermann
7/22/1970
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B07220LAN1970.htm
Dodgers 12, Expos 10
2006-01-27 21:52:09
90.   Louis in SF
Bob, thanks am I correct that is one of the top Dodger comebacks-being down so much late in the game?
2006-01-27 22:00:27
91.   Bob Timmermann
They were 6 down in the 7th. I would assume they've done better.

If you remember the Random Dodger Callback for 1899 (you mean you don't?), the Dodgers rallied from 10-3 down in the 7th and came back to win 11-10 with seven in the 8th and a run in the 10th.

Of course they were playing the Cleveland Spiders who were 20-134 that year.

2006-01-27 22:37:29
92.   Louis in SF
Bob, I forgot about that 1899 game, but am proud that I almost hit the inning right on the head.What do you think a pitcher like Osteen would be worth today?
2006-01-27 23:04:40
93.   Bob Timmermann
Osteen was worth Jimmy Wynn.
2006-01-27 23:12:34
94.   ToyCannon
That was a bad trade for the Astro's and one of the best for the Dodgers. One year of the Toy Cannon and I still haven't found a CF who measures up. Course he also had a popgun for an arm. What is with CF and their girlie arms? That is one thing I liked about Milton was his strong and accurate arm. Seemed like he always hit the cutoff man with a nice clean throw. I still think Vlady has no clue what a cutoff man is.
2006-01-27 23:43:00
95.   Xeifrank
61. Yeah, rosters and projected stats are imported, but there is no random stuff like injuries going on. Pretty much look at OBP and percent chance of what type of hit, GB/FB ratios, speed, and pitching.

Was nice to see the Bryan twins win the Australian Open Men's Double Title. They grew up and live in the city I live in and I see them once in a while hitting with the girlfriends over at Spanish Hills CC. I did play in an Open doubles tournament against one of them many years ago (Mike Bryan), he was suppose to play with his brother Bob, but Bob had to withdraw. I thought, ok maybe now we have a chance. Problem was his replacment was the Divsion III Natl Champion. We got smoked 6-2,6-1, but I did manage to hold my serve three out of four games. Of course Mike Bryan was only 13 or 14 years old at the time. You could tell he was something special.
vr, Xei

2006-01-28 07:09:44
96.   Daniel Zappala
81, 88 Thanks for your remembrances. Far more interesting than debating Victorino!
2006-01-28 07:58:12
97.   Fearing Blue
#75: I believe that is an incorrect version of the events. Last year, I read quite a bit on the Victorino situation. When the Phillies dropped him, he had the option to become a minor league free agent due to some complications with having been Rule 5 drafted and dropped multiple times. Victorino chose to become a free agent and re-signed with the Phillies, thinking he had a better shot of making the majors with them. DePodesta really didn't have a say in the matter, except for leaving him off the 40-man roster in the first place.

Top 5 Projected OPS by PECOTA:
J.D. Drew .930
Hee Seop Choi .854
Jeff Kent .822
Jayson Werth .805
Jose Cruz Jr. .802

All 5 of those players are DePodesta acquisitions. The highest projection for a Ned Colletti signing is Bill Mueller at .794. It will be interesting to see how this season plays out.

2006-01-28 07:58:13
98.   deburns
91 I seem to remember a game vs. the Cardinals in either 1949 or 1950 when Brooklyn was down 8 late in the game, and pulled it out 9-8 significantly due to a 4 error performance by STL 3B Tommy Glaviano, three on one play. I had quit the game and my brother later asked me what I had thought of the comeback. But then again, my memory increasingly plays tricks on me.
2006-01-28 08:33:08
99.   Bob Timmermann
Wow, you have an excellent memory.

That game was on May 18, 1950 at Ebbets Field. The Dodgers trailed the Cardinals 8-0 after 7. They scored 4 in the eighth and 5 in the ninth. Glaviano made four errors in the game, THREE of them in the ninth inning, the final one allowing the winning runs to score.

A guy in the 19th century and Bob Brenly in 1986 made FOUR errors in one inning at third base to set the major league record.

2006-01-28 09:05:18
100.   ToyCannon
97
Furcal has the 2nd highest VORP on the team, did you just use OPS to cherry pick your Ned comment or do you really think an OPS of 800 for Werth/Cruz as corner outfielders is better then the 33 VORP of the SS Furcal(highest in the NL) or better then the 20 Vorp for Mueller(7th best in the NL for 3b)?
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-01-28 09:14:14
101.   deburns
99 Bob, looking at scoresheet.org I see that the game was also the debut of Billy Loes, who later claimed that an error he made on a ground ball in a night game was caused by losing the ball in the moon. This was after the Daffiness Boys of the '30's, but Loes would have fit right in.
2006-01-28 09:25:04
102.   popup
How accurate is Pecota? Drew is coming off an injured wrist and shoulder, Choi has not played regularly with the Dodgers in a year and a half, Kent is in his late 30's and coming off a wrist injury himself, Werth is coming off a poor year where he had a bad wrist, Cruz is streaky and has a bad back.

Stan from Tacoma

2006-01-28 11:06:03
103.   dsfan
Toy Cannon,

Thank you for pointing out the unfair comparison on the Depo/Ned players made in post 97.

Popup,

I share your skepticism over Pecota. Rife with flagrant misses in years past. VORP isn't the greatest, either.

2006-01-28 11:09:05
104.   regfairfield
103 What's wrong with VORP. It doesn't advertise itself except as a way to measure offensive and pitching performance?
2006-01-28 11:14:03
105.   regfairfield
Also, what's wrong about PECOTA? No prediction system is going to be 100% perfect. Are your beefs simply with the fact that it pegged a couple of players to be great/crappy and it was wrong?
2006-01-28 11:33:20
106.   ToyCannon
102
As with any projection system it will have some hits and some misses. I've used both system for years and I think the HQ staff does a better job on the hitters and Pecota does a better job on the pitching. HQ will manually massage the numbers that the program spits out but I believe BP leaves the Pecota projections alone. That could only explain how Bonds has such a silly projection.
The idea that this old man with his bad knee's will get 642 at bats seems like a fantasy. He hasn't had that many at bats since 2001 when he was 37 and healthy. Add in that they only project a 4% attrition rate to him is just more problematic. They are not accounting for the 30 pounds he supposedly lost this year. I know he has no comps and that is what the program spit out but please don't bet your roto team on that projection. Or do so if your in one of my leagues.
2006-01-28 12:26:29
107.   Andrew Shimmin
97- Did you really think you could get away with posting PECOTA OPS projections when some people here prefer other numbers? Jeez, what were you thinking? Cheater.

OT: Now on C-Span, Thomas LaSorda (the DaimlerChrysler one, not ours).

2006-01-28 12:32:19
108.   Bob Timmermann
Sign of a slow sports weekend: watching C-SPAN.
2006-01-28 13:02:34
109.   Andrew Shimmin
C-Span is an evergreen. Usually, on weekends it's C-Span 2 for me. But I can't stand their book club programs. If I wanted to listen to people I don't care about talk about books they didn't write and I didn't read, I'd have done much better in school.

Tomorrow (at 1pm and 7pm) the Frenchman who wrote American Vertigo is going to chat with Bill Kristol, moderated by Francis Fukuyama. So. That's something to look forward to.

2006-01-28 13:05:30
110.   Vishal
[109] BHL? there was a good discussion of him on slate last week. he doesn't like bill kristol, apparently.
2006-01-28 13:30:13
111.   Bob Timmermann
Brian Lamb: So your site is called "Dodger Thoughts"
Jon Weisman: Yes, it is.
BL: Why is it called that.
JW: It has my thoughts about the Dodgers
BL: But what sort of thoughts?
JW: Anything. How the team does.
BL: What about "Dodgers"?
JW: That's the name of the team.
BL: It is?
JW: Yes
BL: Since when?
JW: I don't know, the 1890s?
BL: When you wrote this, did you use a pen or a computer?
JW: I used a computer.
BL: What kind of computer?
JW: A Mac.
BL: Jon Weisman, thank you for joining us here on C-SPAN
2006-01-28 13:35:08
112.   Andrew Shimmin
110- I saw that Slate had Foer and some other guy writing about him, but I've been a little burned out. Just because one Frenchman wrote a good book about America (two hundred odd years ago), doesn't mean that some other Frenchman is likely to have. I only read drips and drabs of his Atlantic serial, and while it was alright, it didn't make me want to buy the whole book.
2006-01-28 13:38:25
113.   Andrew Shimmin
111- Lamb would ask what room of the house Jon writes in. In every Booknotes I ever watched (I think) he asked that.
2006-01-28 15:11:22
114.   Bob Timmermann
BL: Where did you write this book?
JW: Mostly at home.
BL: Where in your home?
JW: In my living room.
BL: Is it a nice living room?
JW: It has a Nerf basketball hoop.
BL: Tell me about Nerf
2006-01-28 15:53:55
115.   Jon Weisman
111, 114 LOL :)

It sounds very much like.

"Who are these Stooges you speak of?"
"They're an old comedy team."
"I want to know everything about them. You will show me the Stooges?"
"I will show you the Stooges."

2006-01-28 16:28:48
116.   deburns
Did you see the parody that was done on the occasion of Brian Lamb's retirement from Book Notes? The interviewee mentioned China and Brian asked: Where is China?
2006-01-28 16:37:11
117.   oldbear
I think if Werth/Cruz both post 800+OPS, that will be more valuable than what Bill Mueller will do. And I'm surprised Mueller gets a VORP of 20, since VORP takes into account counting stats (at bats), and Mueller hasnt been injury free in quite some time. I'm not sure if he can get the amount of AB's to get that 20 VORP considering his age/recent injury history.

Furcal of course will be the highest bc he's the best SS in the NL.

Can someone run the pythagoreum theory W/L thing off the Pecota or ZIPS projections?

2006-01-28 17:44:30
118.   Linkmeister
Ouch. Having just been threw a (successful!) battle with Time-Warner cable to keep CSPAN2 on the air rather than dump it entirely (to give to a local programming outfit--that would have made SIX channels devoted to reruns of the city council and legislature meetings), it pains me to agree somewhat with the parody above.

However, we won, and more than that, we got CSPAN3 too. And the local programmers won, because they got their sixth channel on which to put drivel nobody watches.

2006-01-28 17:45:38
119.   Linkmeister
Whoops. "Through," not "threw," although that's what I wanted to do with Time-Warner's idiot programming people at the time it began. The Defenestration of Prague wouldn't have held a candle to it.
2006-01-28 17:58:35
120.   ToyCannon
Mueller has had over 500 plate appearances 2 of the last 4 years, including last year. Pecota is giving him the VORP of 20 with only 431 plate appearances. Sounds about right to me.

Werth and Cruz have not been bastions of health themselves. I'd be dissapointed if they only posted the Pecota OPS projection of 802/805. I'm expecting a lot more from Cruz then that this year. I think a line of 260/370/470 is a realistic goal for Cruz. Werth is such a ? mark with his continuing wrist problems I wouldn't even venture a guess as to what he could accomplish.

2006-01-28 18:23:12
121.   oldbear
Cruz is inconsistent. He can look great, and but also horrible. Very very streaky. I'm not sure what we'll get from him.

Werth actually batted 'smarter' at the plate last year. He was more patient and put the ball in play more often. The problem was that he had no power behind the balls he hit, bc of the wrist. If the wrist never heals, then yeah I dont think he'll amount to much.

I think Tydus Meadows is another guy Pecota or Zips loves, and if he's not on the 40man another team may pick him up and give him a shot.

2006-01-28 18:38:29
122.   trainwreck
How do you figure Werth was "smarter" last season? His on base was the same and every other number was worse. He was trying to hit a home run on every swing and looked horribly overmatched to me.
2006-01-28 18:56:35
123.   PennyJavy
I believe Oldbear is saying Werth was a "smarter" batter because he increased his Walk Ratio by 3%, and his BA, SLG was very low due to his wrist problem.
2006-01-28 19:10:08
124.   Fearing Blue
#100: Hey Toy Cannon, that's my bad. I do think of DePodesta as a better "strategic planner", if you will, but my full intent was just to point out something that I saw and thought was funny (funny, strange not funny, haha) and a little interesting. You are correct that VORP is a better statistic, though VORP-rate is more what I would want to look at since VORP is a cumulative statistic. I don't like the cumulative statistics because I don't think PECOTA does a good job projecting playing time.
2006-01-28 21:29:36
125.   still bevens
122 Werth can be infuriating to watch at the plate because of his intense love for getting behind in the count as soon as possible. Kent swings early alot but at least he connects.
2006-01-28 23:45:11
126.   Andrew Shimmin
118- You lucky such and such. I'd be willing to kill (it'd have to be a pretty bad person, but I'd be willing to kill him) to get C-Span 3. I thought it was only available in D.C. There's still the internet feed, but that's unbearable over dial-up. So, if I really have to watch something, I end up at a coffee shop, sucking up their bandwidth.
2006-01-28 23:57:10
127.   das411
zzzzzzzzzzz....has Kobe vs the Pistons happened yet?

I've been thinking: every major league (or maybe even each team?) needs to have one clip, some league- or franchise-defining highlight, that is permalinked from their homepage. This could change on maybe a yearly basis, as ideally teams write new chapters in their histories every year. It just seems to me that if someone says LA Dodgers, for example, the Gibson HR should not be too hard to find on their site, and so on. They could even make one of those MLB.com style contests out of this, "Vote on your team's Ultimate Highlight!"

Some possibilities from 2005-06 so far: AJP and the third strike that wasn't, the Ovechkin goal, Kobe's 81, perhaps the non-interception from Steelers/Colts. Are there any other possible "all-time" moments from the past year that I've missed?

2006-01-29 00:25:53
128.   oldbear
I'm saying Werth hit smarter bc he still managed to get on base the same amount of time, despite hitting about .30 points less.

Really if you compare Werth's 2004 and 2005, there's only one big difference. In 2004 he hit 16HR's. In 2005 he only hit 7.

He's increased his walk rate (which is good). I think if he keeps that same patience, and gets his power back, he'll be the .850+ OPS OF'er that he has the potential to be.

2006-01-29 03:06:25
129.   Mark Linsey
From the indians.com article on the cleveland/boston trade:

"Fans have flooded local sports talk radio stations all week with rallying cries against trading Crisp, who was considered by many to be a key part of the Indians' young core.

Shapiro certainly recognized the 26-year-old Crisp's upside, but in discussing the player with reporters earlier in the day, before the deals were consummated, Shapiro also outlined a couple of Crisp's question marks.

"The question and the unknown on him is going to be how much more power he's got," Shapiro said. "That's an unknown. ... Last year, he was very bad against left-handed pitching. Very bad."

This part really struck me as highlighting the differences in a smaller media market. Can anyone imagine what would happen if DePo came up and said "Paul LoDuca has been very bad after the break. Very bad." ? How about "Adrian Beltre had very bad plate discipline before 2004. Very bad," or "Jim Tracy has been very bad at filling out the lineup card. Very Bad."

How about making those comments before the deals to send them away or the decisions to let them leave were even finalized?

2006-01-29 08:34:48
130.   Steve
This has probably already been covered, but Plaschke's Gagne article cracks me up. Hopefully, it's the first in a series. Tomorrow, Jeff Kent professes a lack of concern about the threat to his job posed by Chris Truby. Then a two-part series where J.D. Drew discusses Cody Ross and Jason Repko.
2006-01-29 09:09:30
131.   ToyCannon
While the one man gang of Kobe and the Lakers continue to manage to barely beat sub 500 clubs the Clippers TEAM clobbered the 1st place Nets/Nuggets/Nuggets in their last 3 games even as their second leading scorer continues to rehab. First they ended the Nugget 7 game winning streak and did it in Colorado, then the following night they gave the Nuggets the biggest whoopping in Clipper History and led at one point by 39 points.
No one knows who Q Ross is but he's the best defensive player in town. The only slumps the Clippers have had this year is when their best defensive player has been out with back spasms. Just ask Carmelo Anthony who until Friday was the hottest offensive player in basketball not named Kobe.
2006-01-29 09:59:52
132.   jasonungar05
lol: Milton being Milton?

http://tinyurl.com/bc8gc

2006-01-29 10:29:19
133.   Marty
And so it begins for Oakland...
2006-01-29 10:45:34
134.   King of the Hobos
Just to give us something to talk about...

Colletti was supposedly on TJ Simers' Sunday morning show today (I missed it unfortunately). He said he had "one major and one minor" move he is still working on, but refused to discuss. And he's working on extending Kent a year

Anyone catch the interview? I ask mostly because my source is rather...terrible. Simers does have a show on XTRA Sports (which I was unaware of), so that part is true

2006-01-29 11:08:48
135.   Bob Timmermann
Simers will write about the interview in his next column most likely.
2006-01-29 11:10:35
136.   jasonungar05
http://tinyurl.com/avbkj

this chick is great..not drinking the Finley whine up in Napa

2006-01-29 11:23:59
137.   Steve
unfortunately?
2006-01-29 11:24:58
138.   Bob Timmermann
Poor Steve.
2006-01-29 11:25:28
139.   Bob Timmermann
That's poor Steve (Finley), not our Steve.
2006-01-29 11:35:13
140.   Steve
Poor Steve.

Only if I had to listen to T.J. Simers' radio show.

2006-01-29 11:38:15
141.   Marty
I liked that article. But it struck me that it would be almost exactly the type of column that TJ would write if Finley was a new Dodger player this year. And he would be reviled for it.
2006-01-29 11:53:18
142.   Steve
Or had to watch Steve Finley play 140 games in center field
2006-01-29 12:35:35
143.   dsfan
120-

God love you for expecting a lot more from Jose Cruz Jr.

He'll save the Dodgers money on the clubhouse spread -- just open a can of Alpo for him.

Cruz has been teasting scouts and coaches for years with his "five tool" potential, but he's become a baseball vagabond for a very good reason. He's very streaky. The Diamondbacks thought he'd rather be sleeping than playing baseball.

Pitchers figured out several years ago that if you bounce a curveball, Jose will swing at it.

Maybe he'll learn how to adjust someday, he's not a fossil...but goodness, he can be a frustrating player....Maybe laid-back LA will suit him. I wish him a healthier back and career year in 2006 but would count on neither.

2006-01-29 13:21:34
144.   natepurcell
well according to simers column today, he did state that colletti would be a guest on his talk show this morning.

hmmm, so one major deal and one minor deal.... I wont even try and guess the minor deal.

but for the major deal, would anyone do an odalis for kearns deal?

2006-01-29 13:31:17
145.   Bob Timmermann
The Reds interim GM has said that he isn't going to trade Kearns. So unless someone else is given the job very quickly, I wouldn't expect Kearns to be coming to L.A.

And Piazza is not on his way back.

2006-01-29 13:43:10
146.   MartinBillingsley31
I still think david wells is coming for brazo and maybe a throw in like carter or hamaluk.

I wouldn't be surprised if ned has tomko in the bullpen as the long reliever, with depth (houlton 1st, sele 2nd, billingsley 3rd) in the minors in case of injuries.

I have a feeling that 2 things are important to ned, 1 is depth in case of injuries, 2 is plenty of time in the minors for our prospects to develop (not rushing them).

2006-01-29 13:52:33
147.   King of the Hobos
Well, if you're going to believe my source, he said Simers asked in the major deal involved Odalis or a big bat, and Colletti answered with an unconvincing "no" (although, having listened to Colletti interviews, the answer was probably about 5 minutes long)
2006-01-29 13:55:48
148.   King of the Hobos
Here's my source, I think you'll realize quickly why I don't completely trust him

http://tinyurl.com/7cbzb

2006-01-29 14:29:13
149.   dzzrtRatt
Mike Piazza is a Padre, says Ken Rosenthal: One year, $2 million.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5289794

2006-01-29 14:31:24
150.   dzzrtRatt
I read further. They want Piazza to bat cleanup and start at catcher (over David Ross)!

Rafael Furcal and Kenny Lofton are going to love playing the Padres.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-01-29 14:38:54
151.   trainwreck
Coletti's moves lately have not been to my liking so please, no more moves. Is Molina a major move? Probably in his eyes.
2006-01-29 14:43:13
152.   willhite
148 -

I heard the Simers show today and everything your source says is exactly what I remember.

I happen to like his show because he sticks it to everyone, without concern for who they are or what their position is. He then sits back and observes how they react to his schtick. Some, like DePo handle it without getting angry, but without really getting into it, and others like Ned really seem to enjoy it.

I only wish he would leave his daughter at home, or at least ask her to tone down her shrill voice.

Simers admitted to actually liking Kent, probably because he speaks his mind. Simers doesn't like tap dancers (are you listening Tommy L.?).

2006-01-29 14:46:49
153.   King of the Hobos
Looks like a 1 year contract for Piazza for $2 million, then an $8 million mutual option. Somehow, I don't see the option being exercised (although I'd bet more money that the Astros don't exercise Preston Wilson's option. And why is Piazza going to San Diego? "The Padres told Mike that he could pretty much catch as much as he wanted to," agent Dan Lozano said. I'm going to agree with 150's comment about Lofton and Furcal
2006-01-29 14:48:37
154.   King of the Hobos
152 Thanks for the confirmation. Was there any hints at what the major and minor deal might be?
2006-01-29 14:49:45
155.   willhite
153 -

Teams might run on him but he's still a pretty big upgrade over what they had, and for 2 million, IMO, worth the risk.

2006-01-29 14:54:56
156.   willhite
154 -

Simers asked him if the major deal was going to be for power or getting rid of OP (in a tone meant to convey "it must be one of those two options". Ned chuckled and said "neither" (but somewhat unconvincingly).

Of course he could swing a deal for Abreu and then come back and say he doesn't consider Abreu a "power" hitter.

Actually said he was working on one minor and one fairly major deal. Seems to me if he could get Abreu it would be a very major deal, so that probably ain't gonna happen. Someone like Aubrey Huff might be considered fairly major, or he could just be blowing smoke to keep everyone off balance until he does or doesn't complete the deal.

2006-01-29 15:19:18
157.   ToyCannon
The whole NL West is becoming geriatric central. Padres counting on Giles/Piazza, Giants on Bonds/Alou, Dodgers counting on Kent/Lofton, Arizona on Gonzo/Green.

Shame that Piazza didn't spend one year in a hitters park. He must really love to catch. He'll still get my applause when SD comes to town.

If we trade Yhancy for D Wells that would now make it:
Sanchez/Schmoll/Yhancy/E Jackson/Tiffany for
Seo/D Wells/Baez/Haumuluk/Carter

Seems like a decent turnover to me. Maybe we can flip Baez for D Wells instead and sign Gagne to that long term extension he was hinting about today. Big mistake in my opinion but everyone here seems to kneel at the Gagne alter even if it is clearly the wrong religion.

2006-01-29 15:20:26
158.   Brendan
145

Bob, Ken Rosenthal thinks kearns will be traded.

http://tinyurl.com/dh9f5

2006-01-29 15:26:36
159.   Brendan
Big mistake in my opinion but everyone here seems to kneel at the Gagne alter even if it is clearly the wrong religion.

By "here" are we to assume you mean Dodger Thoughts or L.A. in general? If it is the the former, I think you are mistaken. I think anyone who tries to characterize the dodgers thoughts community as one that has a single viewpoint on any one issue is off the mark. But it makes for a great ending to a comment.

2006-01-29 15:37:23
160.   oldbear
Something is wrong in the world that sees Sandy Alomar JR get 1mils for 1yr, and Mike Piazza get 2mils for 1yr.

Low risk/high reward for the Padres.

I'd rather have Piazza on the Dodgers, than Sandy, especially at that price.

2006-01-29 15:40:34
161.   das411
Hey Jon, should we do Kobe Thoughts here or will that be a new thread?

160 - Yeah seriously, hard to believe Mr. Ned passed up that many PR points for that little $$

2006-01-29 15:45:36
162.   Bob Timmermann
Ken Rosenthal thinks everybody is going to be traded.

But here is what the Reds GM said:

http://tinyurl.com/8873y

2006-01-29 15:50:24
163.   Brendan
162

I think I'll forward that to Ken. Lazy Sunday.

2006-01-29 15:57:16
164.   trainwreck
This is a great display of shooting prowess.
2006-01-29 15:57:31
165.   Bob Timmermann
Rosenthal's story about Kearns is from 3 days ago and Kullman made his announcement yesterday.
2006-01-29 16:07:43
166.   Brendan
good thing I'm lazy. thanks
2006-01-29 16:18:36
167.   Steve
Maybe we can flip Baez for D Wells instead

A good deed...in a weary world

everyone here seems to kneel at the Gagne alter even if it is clearly the wrong religion.

Which threads are you reading?

2006-01-29 16:27:11
168.   trainwreck
It should be illegal for Luke Walton to shoot the ball unless he has to for shot clock reasons or has a lay up.
2006-01-29 16:47:11
169.   Andrew Shimmin
If there's something that everybody here really does agree on, does it really need to be pointed out? Wouldn't we all already know? Like, everybody here seems to hate Hitler. Or, everybody here wishes Sandy Koufax had been able to throw a few more years. Well, yeah. But, so what?
2006-01-29 16:48:19
170.   trainwreck
Does anyone else think we should invite Kevin Brown to spring training lol?
2006-01-29 17:19:35
171.   Bob Timmermann
At this point in his career, I'm sure that Brown would love to be an NRI.
2006-01-29 17:29:52
172.   ToyCannon
I did mean Los Angeles and not DT, sorry for the confusion. I know DT has quite a few different points of view on all things in baseball and life which is why I come by.
2006-01-29 17:31:51
173.   Brendan
172

perfect.

2006-01-29 17:36:02
174.   LAT
Cannon, you have missed out on the heated "we shoud trade Gagne debates."

I would inviite Brown, make him pay his own plane fare and then cut him the first day into ST. On top of that I would let some poor clubhouse attendent who Brown probably abused 5 years ago deliver the news.

I agree with 150. No more deals. Ned started out strong and is moving the other direction. Plus there is no prospect I'm ready to give up.

Agree I would rather have had Piazza, but when Ned took Alomar a month ago, I'm guessing Mike's price was higher.

2006-01-29 17:45:23
175.   Steve
you have missed out on the heated "we shoud trade Gagne debates."

That's all I was saying. But different points of view can be overrated anyway. Different points of view lead to Jason Grabowski and Danys Baez.

2006-01-29 17:45:43
176.   dzzrtRatt
174 plus which, Piazza wouldn't have accepted a gig in LA, because he'd only be able to catch about 35 games at best, even if Alomar was released. The idea of him as everyday starting catcher was not one that appealed to any teams, except the Padres are desperate.
2006-01-29 17:58:11
177.   ToyCannon
174
No, I participated but my handle was Molokai at the time.
2006-01-29 18:01:07
178.   natepurcell
not to nitpick but alomar jr got 550k, not 1 mil.

besides, piazza is going to a worse hitting park then shea, one yra older, and actually wants to catch more then 30 games a season.

he wouldnt fit in LA.

2006-01-29 18:02:40
179.   Andrew Shimmin
177- Ah-HA! Je t'accuse! I'm not sure what of, but something. Is this the first time you've mentioned the change, or did I miss the unveiling?
2006-01-29 18:06:27
180.   natepurcell
ha, molokai, you changed your name. how come?
2006-01-29 18:11:42
181.   dsfan
Padres have struck a lot of nice bargain deals the last two years and Piazza looks like another one.

Even at 37, he's got to be the best hitting catcher in the NL West, no?

He hit 19 home runs last year. How many HRs did the LAD catchers hit? I don't think any other catcher in the NL West hit 15. Even the Rockies are lucky to get five home runs from their regular catcher, whoever he is.

2006-01-29 18:13:56
182.   dsfan
I actually think Kevin Brown could be a pretty good middle reliever.

Can get you a groundball or a strikeout, probably won't walk anyone.

Of course, the medicals aren't too encouraging.

2006-01-29 18:58:48
183.   ToyCannon
180
My old handle "Molokai" was named after my dog who unexpectedly died last Thursday. It was time for a change and Jimmy Wynn was one of my favorites and I always loved his nickname.
2006-01-29 19:05:34
184.   Bob Timmermann
My condolences on the loss of your dog.

I was surprised how much I missed my cat when she passed away. Her name must have cursed Heather Graham's awful sitcom.

2006-01-29 19:09:20
185.   Bob Timmermann
I believe it took close to 20 minutes to play the final 1:51 of regulation of the Stanford-Washington game.
2006-01-29 19:31:51
186.   Andrew Shimmin
Sorry for your loss, ToyCannon. Taking the death of a pet hard is, I think, evidence of good character.
2006-01-29 20:00:07
187.   natepurcell
can someone be a pal and email BA's prememium content on the best tools of the high school draft class and the 100 top HS prospects?
2006-01-29 20:14:15
188.   D4P
Losing a pet is one of life's most heart-wrenching experiences. Sorry to hear that, Molokai.

On the subject, has anyone seen the Tonight Show episode where the late James Stewart read the poem about his dog that had just passed away? It was among the more poignant TV moments I've witnessed. I usually get a bit verklempt just thinking about it.

2006-01-29 20:21:53
189.   Sam DC
Sorry about molokai, toycannon.

Is this where we go to congratulate Jon on his cardinal?

2006-01-29 20:34:28
190.   Jon Weisman
187 - What is this, Napster?

Sorry I've been away from the phone - some good comments.

189 - I can't believe how badly Stanford choked the final two minutes of that game and still won. If ever anyone needed more evidence that the Pac-10 is awful this year, that was it.

2006-01-29 20:49:56
191.   Brendan
ToyCannon, welcome (back?) I'm confused about the proper greeting but you get the idea. retract my question about your comment meaning.

now what new names are Jim and Icaros posting under? Those guys were a great comedy team.

2006-01-29 21:18:22
192.   Steve
I actually think Kevin Brown could be a pretty good middle reliever.

I rest my case.

If ever anyone needed more evidence that the Pac-10 is awful this year, that was it.

UCLA is 17-4. That's really all the evidence needed, though more is appreciated.

2006-01-29 21:20:44
193.   regfairfield
181 Dodger catchers hit 11 last year. Phillips had 7 (as a catcher), Navarro 3, Rose 1.

I really don't like this move for Piazza. He could have legitametly helped the Yankees, Indians (depending on how bad Hafner is at first base) or possibly the Angels just DHing. Now, he will decline even further, especially at PETCO. He's probably good for 15 home runs as a Padre, along with some atrocious defense.

2006-01-29 21:27:45
194.   Steve
But regardless of how it plays out for Piazza, he's a hall of famer. so whether he hits 10 or 15 or 30 doesn't really matter. For the Padres, on the other hand, they were going with Doug Mirabelli. He gets to come back to Southern California, hang out, people will love him regardless. Nobody really loses.
2006-01-29 21:28:18
195.   Bob Timmermann
Nevertheless, I'm taking off work the day they have the four games in the Pac-10 tournament at Staples.

You never know what to expect when you see Washington State play Oregon State.

2006-01-29 22:14:01
196.   Linkmeister
Hey, baseball starts this week! College baseball, anyway. U of Hawai'i plays a four-game series with SDSU. If you read the papers, you'd think Tony Gwynn was gonna play the whole outfield by himself, rather than coach the players.
2006-01-29 22:43:24
197.   molokai
One final post if you'll indulge me.

We found him one day broken in the street
A typical lab mix but with a white eye and corkscrew tail
His leg had been broken but Dr Bell made him well
After the surgery he said he'd doubt if he could run or jump and that he might have a limp
We found him a new home but he kept coming back
The new owners threw up their arms and sent him away
We named him Molokai because Madagascar was to long
He not only didn't have a limp he could flat out jump
Our 4-foot fence couldn't contain him
Our 5-foot fence couldn't contain him
Our 6-foot fence couldn't contain him
Our 7-foot fence was just the ticket
We found him a friend who was baking in the Valley
We nursed her back to health and tried to find a home
However she was blind in one eye and not a brain in sight
No owner was interested so we presented her to him
They became best buddies and he protected her day and night
They played hard, the Lab and the Chow
Every time they busted out he kept her off the street
Sometimes they roamed for miles before the phone call came
They were always found together; never did he stray from her
Whenever I picked them up he always gave me the look, I understood it was
always her fault. He'd never have left or at least not for long
As she got older they could no longer play, he never quite understood
why she could no longer move, while he could still jump to the moon
With all the old animals in our house, his heart was the least likely to just give out
I'd never thought he go while in his sleep
Didn't seem right that he didn't put up a fight

2006-01-29 23:08:29
198.   LAT
197. Sorry for your loss. He sounds like a great dog. How is she doing without him?

A couple of friends who had multiple dogs have told me that dogs understand death. For example, if you have two dogs and one has to be put down, you should bring him home afterwards so the surviving dog can smell him. Otherwise they don't understand what happened to their pal. But they get it he died. Obvioulsy who knows if this is true. But seems like it provide her with closure.

2006-01-29 23:16:06
199.   oldbear
178. I'd let Piazza catch as much as he wanted too also, if the alternative was Doug Mirabelli. Sure Piazza cant throw out many baserunners anymore, but since when are SB's strongly correlated in scoring runs? Even successful SB's?

I think the key to GM'ing is to build a 25 man roster as strong as possible, and to have a competant, logical, analytical field manager that implements appropriate playing time.

The only way someone can convince me that signing Piazza would be a bad move, would be if he took playing time away from a better option (Dionner Navarro).

If were going to subscribe to that logic, then isnt signing Nomar Garciapparra also a bad move, since he takes time away from a better option (Choi/Saenz)?

I dont believe in that theory. I think its best to build the best collection of 25 players, and to have a good manager that plays the correct people in their best place.

I'd feel alot better having Mike Piazza on the roster, than Sandy Alomar Jr.

2006-01-29 23:25:22
200.   oldbear
168. The Laker Draft War Room should have a lock. Mitch Kupchak should not have a key to said lock.

Luke Walton, Kareem Rush, Brian Cook... meh.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-01-29 23:37:37
201.   dsfan
199

Indeed, a good move by Towers. Bochy will make good use of Piazza. Besides being more far more valuable than detritus that passes as reserve catchers in the NL West -- Sandy Alomar/Yamid Haad/Yorvit Torrealba/Chris Snyder -- he's the most dangerous hitter of all NL West catchers, even at age 37.

2006-01-30 09:51:03
202.   tendilla
Back in the 60's I lived and died with the Dodgers!!!

I loved Sandy pitching a one hit shutout and watching Maury walk and then work his way home...Dodgers win 1 to 0!!!

Then Sandy quit to save his arm from falling off...the Dodgers (in a McCourt like fit) didn't take it well...they wanted Sandy to stay on another few years no matter what the rest of his life would be like with a dead arm.
No goodbye parties...he was gone!!

That off season, Maury refused to go to Japan with the team for whatever reason ....so the Dodgers in another McCourt like fit dumped Maury from the team!!!

NOTHING LEFT TO WATCH...

I, who had listened to every game since they arrived here in 1958, stopped paying any attention to my "beloved" Dodgers for about 5 years. Then for some reason in the mid 1970's I found them again.
Late rI grew to love the Cey's, Buckners, Garvey's etc.

NOW...I've been on the verge of leaving again since McCourt took over. With his Back East Boston Know it All B.S.

What the "McCourt's" don't understand is that there are always some players you love to follow and they keep you with the team!!!
It's a Comfort Zone.....LoDuca, Green and a few others were fun to watch, win or lose, and they were also good bunch of guys who loved LA. They even participated in city events.

The McCourts have dumped every connection with the old Dodgers including Joe Amalfitano and the equipment manager ...recently!!! Why???

There's no one left to follow...no thread left..If it wasn't for my love of Vin Scully.....
and occasionally to see Tommy Lasorda roll on to the field ...???

This new bunch is an interesting array of carpetbaggers...I'm gonna give it one last chance...if they don't grab me during spring training...this grandpa is off for other hunting grounds.

Maybe the Angels have room for some long time Ex-Dodger fans. I believe Arte Moreno really cares about HIS fans

NG

Del Rey.

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