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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Breathe In, Breathe In, Breathe In
2006-12-19 08:45
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Some people love Southern California for the warmth, but my favorite days in Los Angeles are the ones like today, when there are mountains beyond mountains in your view, when the air is crisp and clean like the days before smog was even a word, filling your lungs like a beautiful wakeup call to life.

If you're not a sad sack like me that's going to be stuck in an office all day, get yourself outside to breathe it all in. Get out there and frolic. I mean, if they can play hoops outside until it rains in Arizona, all of us here should be out getting a taste of honey.

* * *

As The Griddle points out, Jayson Werth has signed with the Philadelphia Phillies.

And, Gordon Edes of the Boston Globe updates the J.D. Drew situation. The article confirms that Drew played hurt for a good part of last season, contrary to what some of his critics suggest he's capable of. A lot of good it did him.

I'm not suggesting that anyone feel sorry for Drew or that he is above being criticized - just that people give him a fair shake.

Comments (340)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-12-19 09:26:32
1.   Marty
Let me repost from the last thread:

Holiday fundraiser update:

Ok, we finally made it to the magic $200 mark. I will match that amount post-haste. Many thanks to these fine contributors:

ToyCannon
Strike4
BHSportsguy
Overkill94
Sushirabbit
Screwballin
Dianagramr

Hopefully, I got the names right. You people are the best. This is a great community.

2006-12-19 09:28:19
2.   El Lay Dave
1 And deserved kudos to you, Marty, as well.
2006-12-19 09:30:23
3.   50 years a Dodger Fan
The weather is beautifully clear here but my thermometer is stubbornly stying around the 40 degree mark, so I think I'll stay inside. I can see mountains in every direction but only one has snow on it. It will be there till July. But I'm not complaining; at night it's in the teens and lower twenties. The 60 degree weather of SoCal is just a fond memory.
2006-12-19 09:35:07
4.   El Lay Dave
Regarding Oinkster from the last topic: as an Eagle Rock High School grad, it's hard for me to think of Eagle Rock as "up and coming" or that stretch of Colorado Blvd. as "newly hip". I believe I remember when Jim's Burgers opened at that location.
2006-12-19 09:38:16
5.   El Lay Dave
I agree with Jon; the clean, clear, post-weather front days are the best. I'm holed up in my office, but I do have a window and a nice view across the basin of San Gabriels, so it isn't all bad. Have to make sure to go out for lunch today.
2006-12-19 09:38:32
6.   Bob Timmermann
Eagle Rock High has won the lower division City football championship the past two seasons to boot. And Eagle Rock High does not exactly have an illustrious sporting tradition.
2006-12-19 09:39:29
7.   ToyCannon
Aren't days like these reserved for the Rose bowl?
2006-12-19 09:49:38
9.   Bob Timmermann
7
My ticket for the Granddaddy of Them All should be coming on Thursday.
2006-12-19 09:52:58
10.   Jon Weisman
Comment #8 was deleted for violating DT guideline #1.
2006-12-19 09:53:34
11.   El Lay Dave
6 Not much of a sporting tradition at all. When I was there, it was a 6-year school (7-12) with a smallish enrollment. I think our claim to athletic fame was an all-city tennis player.

7 Except it will be 72 degrees on 1/1.

Shouldn't Gene Orza be keeping quieter?

2006-12-19 09:57:16
12.   Greg Brock
Did we talk about this? Mustache wins LA Sportsman of The Year. From Modesti at the DN...

http://www.dailynews.com/sports/ci_4864806

Among the nuggets:
But nobody captured that spirit like Colletti's Dodgers, who have gone from a laughingstock to - announced earlier this month - Baseball America's Organization of the Year.

2006-12-19 10:01:40
13.   ssjames
12 Maybe Modesti should have read the announcement on BA about how that award is decided instead of just assuming that it was based upon all of the great work of Ned. Seriously, 90% of the article is about how we should all drop to our knees and praise Logan White.

Which is true, I do it every night before I go to bed. As should all true Dodger fans.

2006-12-19 10:02:58
14.   Greg Brock
From The Mustache:

"It's rare that people of that stature admit mistakes. But Frank admitted he'd thought he knew more than he turned out to know. And he was committed to getting it right. ... (The owners) have allowed our creativity (in the baseball office) to live."

You gotta be kidding me.

2006-12-19 10:03:06
15.   El Lay Dave
12 It should be awarded to John Wooden in perpetuity.
2006-12-19 10:04:34
16.   D4P
12
The Ned Era has yet to produce a Dodgers division title or a playoff-game victory,

Something the dastardly Depo accomplished in his first season...

2006-12-19 10:05:43
17.   Andrew Shimmin
John Wooden cheats at Scrabble.
2006-12-19 10:06:20
18.   ssjames
15 Didn't you read that Slate article?
2006-12-19 10:06:39
19.   Greg Brock
Oh man, I wanna go all Fire Joe Morgan on that article.
2006-12-19 10:06:57
20.   Sam DC
The XM morning guys (Buck Martinez, Orestes Destrada, someone else) where talking about Kenny Lofton this morning. They even talked about OBP! Then they went around and each of them agreed they'd rather have Lofton next year than Pierre.

Though they noted in five years that might not still be true.

2006-12-19 10:07:05
21.   El Lay Dave
Oaks Christian High's Jimmy Clausen, for helping to boost interest in prep football

Maybe it's just because I hail from a school without "an ilustrious sporting tradition", but has the interest in prep football in Southern California changed much in the past thirty, fourty years or so? Is anyone paying more attention because of Jimmy Clausen???

2006-12-19 10:11:47
22.   El Lay Dave
18 Thus the reference.

20 Don't they think there will be a market for 45-year old CFs?

2006-12-19 10:14:30
23.   Bob Timmermann
21
Well, c'mon who are the famous athletes who went to Eagle Rock High? You don't even have lights for the football team! You guys play in the Northern League, that's the City Section's backwater! We all know that it's really Franklin High that's the one true power in that neck of the woods!
Do I get extra credit for knowing who Eagle Rock's rival is? ;-)

Prep football is popular for the elite teams, but if you go to a game between two middle of the road teams and it's not a homecoming game, there won't be many fans there who are only attending because they gave birth to one of the players or somehow got suckered into playing the trombone or glockenspiel.

Go to a game sometime at Glendale High that doesn't involve Loyola or the Glendale-Hoover homecoming. You can find a LOT of empty seats.

2006-12-19 10:15:11
24.   Humma Kavula
19

I, for one, would love to read a firejoemorganing of that article.

2006-12-19 10:15:32
25.   Andrew Shimmin
Fun fact: the true inspiration for the Rick James character on the Dave Chappelle show was not Rick James; it was John Wooden.
2006-12-19 10:18:36
26.   dzzrtRatt
I don't feel sorry for Drew. But compare his "bad shoulder" season with, say, Shawn Green's (2003 I think), and you do get an appreciation for the man's fortitude. He made the most of what he had to give. I don't recall hearing anyone question his defense, for example. He knew better than anyone that his power was slipping and why, but he still managed to hit 20 dingers, and he helped the team win games by getting on base -- a walk, a single, and sometimes a slashing liner to the opposite field.

Do I think the Sox are about to overpay for him? Of course. Do I wish the Dodgers had him next season? Well, compared to whom? I know I'd rather have an outfield of Kemp-Ethier-Drew, or maybe Gonzalez-Ethier-Drew with Kemp in the wings, than what we're going to have.

Do I think that if the Sox suddenly withdraw their offer and Drew comes crawling back to Ned all Joe-Beimelly and ask for his job back, the Dodgers should listen? Of course. He's not worth $11 million anymore as damaged goods, but he's at least worth what we're paying Pierre or Gonzalez.

2006-12-19 10:18:59
27.   Bob Timmermann
I forgot to add that the interest in prep football is mainly from people who are interested in college football recruiting.

When FSN showed the three state championship games Saturday, they had segments where they showed high school players at the equivalent of an NCAA Football scouting combine.

It was dreadful to watch and I believe a sign of the complete and total moral breakdown of society.

Or maybe it was just dull.

2006-12-19 10:22:21
28.   JoeyP
20--I think Orestes Destrade is one of the best analysts that ESPN has hired over the last 5-6 years. Granted, when the competition is Steve Phillips, Joe Morgan, Buster Olney, John Kruk, and Tino Martinez...its easy to look good. Nevertheless, I think he's done a good job.
2006-12-19 10:25:53
29.   Daniel Zappala
27 Great moral stand, Bob. I'll be sure to have your back any time you get in a fight. Just be sure not to turn around and check whether I'm there. ;-)
2006-12-19 10:30:11
30.   Snowdog
Breathe.
Breathe in the air.
Don't be afraid to care.

26 - You say Drew's not worth $11m, but he's worth what we're paying Pierre.

Something's not adding up.

2006-12-19 10:34:22
31.   Snowdog
30 - nevermind - bad math on my part. $44/5 = less than $11m. I was (wishfully)thinking it was a 4 year deal...
2006-12-19 10:35:20
32.   scareduck
1 - what's all this, then?
2006-12-19 10:37:35
33.   Bob Timmermann
29
Thank you. I appreciate your support.

Do you want to get on board the "No double error" train too?

2006-12-19 10:38:45
34.   Steve
12 -- That's Sportsperson to you.
2006-12-19 10:40:47
35.   Greg Brock
34 I knew somebody would ding me on that.

You were the odds on favorite.

2006-12-19 10:40:53
36.   DodgerHobbit
25 LOL
John Wooden: What did the five fingers say to the ball?

I am not a big fan of Drew. I would want Drew back though on a 3/33 with a shoulder injury termination clause added in. Unfortunately the Drew money was probably already spent but ya never know. I don't think Ned has gotten over it enough to re-sign him even if he was allowed to financially.

2006-12-19 10:51:23
37.   ToyCannon
I've got zero sympathy for JD. Evidently Boras was so busy making the fancy glossies that he forgot to have his crack team do it's due diligence on his client's physical condition before they opted out. I think Boras has put JD in the worse possible environment for his client to succeed. The fans may not bother JD but they will eat his family alive and we know how important his family is. Oh, guess not.
2006-12-19 10:52:07
38.   D4P
37
Surely this can't be Boras' fault...
2006-12-19 10:53:52
39.   Sam DC
So FGL has taken an odd turn . . .
2006-12-19 10:55:17
40.   Greg Brock
If Bill Plaschke wrote that article:

Ned's masterful work included not trading Gagne's setup man like Paul DePodesta did in the Penny/LoDuca trade, thus making him pitch three innings some day and ruining his baseball career.

2006-12-19 10:56:26
41.   Jacob L
Philadelphia would be the worst possible environment for JD (and probably something a lot of people would like to see). Boston, however, is not far behind.

He was hitting the snot out of the ball in September, but then I guess Shawn Green did as well in 2003. Parallels all over the place.

2006-12-19 10:57:02
42.   Jason in Canada
Jon, you are a blogging machine as of late.. Thanks. I miss those kind of days in So. Cal. Now I get to live through insane wind storms in the north west(although it's kind of beautiful in Brtish Columbia). BTW, can I get more info on what Marty 1 is talking about? I remember something like this in the past but not recently...
2006-12-19 10:57:17
43.   D4P
40
Not only that, but Colletti traded for a Proven Closer® to help lighten Gagne's load.
2006-12-19 10:58:12
44.   Jon Weisman
37 - Just so I'm clear, I understand people having zero sympathy for J.D. I just think he has been over-attacked.
2006-12-19 11:01:33
45.   Jacob L
For the record, this type of weather is great for being inside someplace with a nice view. I'll take 20 degrees warmer with a bit of smog.
2006-12-19 11:02:11
46.   das411
28 - Thank you! Someone else finally gives Orestes some credit...and to think how far he has come since that goofy-looking picture on his Donruss '94 card...

41 - No way would we ge our money's werth (oh yes, i went there!) from bringing in JD.

39 - What is this FGL you speak of?

2006-12-19 11:02:43
47.   Greg Brock
I understand the Sportsperson of the Year thing, but I thought it was a little overboard giving the 2006 Nobel Prize for Literature to Turkish writer Orhan Pamuk simply for not being Paul DePodesta.

Talk about piling on.

2006-12-19 11:03:00
48.   Daniel Zappala
39 Did you mean the Fruit Growers Laboratory or the Functional Graph Library? Because these Clementines are fantastic, and there's nothing more fun than plotting graphs in ML.
2006-12-19 11:13:31
49.   Marty
32 42 Just a little guilt trip I was putting on people to donate to the site. Look through the last 5-6 threads. I was giving updates.
2006-12-19 11:17:13
50.   Disabled List
The difference between this season and last season was that in 2005, the AAA replacements we had to rely on were guys like Mike Edwards, Nori Nakamura and Oscar Robles. In 2006, we got to call up productive guys like Martin, Broxton, Kemp, Loney and Ethier.

Without them, Ned and his Proven Veterans® would also have finished in 4th place. Giving Ned a Sportsperson of the Year award is like giving a gold medal only to the anchor man on a 4-person relay team.

I give Ned a lot of credit for hanging on to most of our prospects, and not burning them on panic trades (except for Guzman). And I also give him credit for some of his signings and trades (Nomar, Ethier, Anderson, Schmidt, Wolf). However, some of his moves have been downright horrific, both in the short term (Baez, Carter, Seo, Hendrickson) and in the long term (Lugo, Pierre). I wish that was at least acknowledged by the LA sportswriter groupthink clique.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-12-19 11:17:29
51.   Marty
go to www.firegradylittle.com

It doesn't seem to have Steve's panache.

2006-12-19 11:23:16
52.   Jason in Canada
50 That is a good point. Remember the days when the only pitcher we had to bring up was Mike Judd?
2006-12-19 11:36:01
53.   Andrew Shimmin
FGL was blogspot only, wasn't it?

http://firegradylittle.blogspot.com/

I fear Marty's fundraiser was buried under a lot of nonsense for which I was partially responsible. But somebody has to sound the alarm about the Ketchup/Industrial complex!

2006-12-19 11:52:32
54.   50 years a Dodger Fan
26 You don't think Boras should receive most of the credit for his stats last year? I'll bet Boras called every day reminding him he had to play in a lot of games and put up good numbers if he wanted to opt out and double his fortune.
2006-12-19 11:55:38
55.   Howard Fox
give Drew a fair shake???

he was damaged goods last year...he opted out, we didn't opt him out...Boras and he are getting what they deserve...I have nothing against Drew personally, but I am glad how it is turning out, and I hope someone out there makes him the poster child for the greedy athlete

2006-12-19 11:57:34
56.   El Lay Dave
http://tinyurl.com/ydub76

Gagne passes physical; Texas names him closer.

2006-12-19 12:00:05
57.   Jon Weisman
55 - People say much worse than what you did, Howard. That's the point I'm trying to get across.

That being said, I have yet to see evidence that Drew is greedier than 90 percent of MLB ballplayers, as far as him being the poster child goes.

2006-12-19 12:01:43
58.   Howard Fox
my point is that if he opted out of 11 mill a year, and winds up with less, maybe one day, someone may rethink trying for that extra dollar...to feed their family, as Sprewell said so eloquently once
2006-12-19 12:07:28
59.   bhsportsguy
58 See Jody Reed. (oops sorry to bring up a sore subject)

Players will always think of the bottom line if they have the chance to make more bucks.

2006-12-19 12:11:03
60.   OaklandAs
55 A factor in Drew's decision to opt out was that the local fans and media never liked him, and probably the front office too. He was DePodesta's highest profile signing, and Colletti was happy to get rid of him, just like all of DePo's other signings. Even though Drew was the Dodger's most valuable hitter last year, LA seems to feel they are a better team without him - that's just ridiculous.
2006-12-19 12:11:33
61.   Marty
Breaking News:

Miss USA will not be fired for being a drunken party-girl.

2006-12-19 12:12:29
62.   Marty
I wonder if Miss USA has been in Icaros' apartment.
2006-12-19 12:14:39
63.   Connector
50

"However, some of [Ned's] moves have been downright horrific,... and in the long term (Lugo, Pierre)."
Lugo a bad move? Yes, I concur, but Pierre?!? You're passing down judgement about a guy who hasn't even had a Dodger at bat yet?!?
I think a "wait and see" attitude is in order re: Pierre.

Jon - these crisp pre-Winter days are my favorite kind of days, too.

2006-12-19 12:15:05
64.   das411
Good lord, I am plugging in some historical W/L records for an econ project (yes, longtime DTers, this is that econ final project) and the 1980 Yankees won 103 games?!?!? That is almost as crazy as that three year stretch when the Orioles AVERAGED 106 wins! I'm gonna have a lot to say about competitive balance in MLB, it seems...
2006-12-19 12:15:30
65.   we are infinite
60 Even though Drew was the Dodger's most valuable hitter last year, LA seems to feel they are a better team without him - that's just ridiculous.

Shyeah. Cuz now we have, like, Juan Pierre, so we're ready to roll.

2006-12-19 12:16:28
66.   Howard Fox
60

and he has a very sweet wife and very nice little children too...he is a very professional athlete on the field, never too high or too low...and that is why he is misunderstood by the fans

2006-12-19 12:24:13
67.   bhsportsguy
DePo signed Kent and Lowe also.

Drew opting out was not part of the master plan for this off-season.

2006-12-19 12:28:56
68.   OaklandAs
67 Kent and Lowe are the only two left, plus Penny for the moment, out of a pretty large group of players. According to the local fans and media, Drew opting out was a blessing for the Dodgers.
2006-12-19 12:30:08
69.   El Lay Dave
23 LOL - who are the famous anythings that went to Eagle Rock? I think Wilson won a City Football championship out of the Northern League one year. Franklin!? Who's that? ;) My poorly made point is that I don't think prep football interest has changed over the years. What you stated (Prep football is popular for the elite teams, but if you go to a game between two middle of the road teams and it's not a homecoming game, there won't be many fans there) is, and has been, the case for decades.
2006-12-19 12:30:16
70.   trainwreck
Apparently the guy who won Survivor went to my high school. Northgate triumphs over racism.
2006-12-19 12:33:17
71.   trainwreck
Oh great, ESPN buys into Arena Football. I really want to see and hear about that garbage.
2006-12-19 12:36:09
72.   trainwreck
Iverson to Nuggets

http://tinyurl.com/yymkss

2006-12-19 12:38:34
73.   El Lay Dave
63 You're passing down judgement about a guy [Juan Pierre] who hasn't even had a Dodger at bat yet?!?

Juan Pierre is 29 years old and has appeared in 1007 major league baseball games. That should give us a pretty good idea of what to expect. Do you expect him suddenly to play extraordinarily differently in Dodger blue?

2006-12-19 12:39:57
74.   El Lay Dave
61 If it's good enough for Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, Tara Reid, Nicole Richie, Britney Spears, ...
2006-12-19 12:40:23
75.   Marty
I'm guessing the suspensions motivated the Nuggets
2006-12-19 12:44:47
76.   Bob Timmermann
69
My poorly made replies were obviously in agreement with you!

I've covered an Eagle Rock-Franklin tilt. I was surprised at how heated it was. There were a lot of cops at the game.

2006-12-19 12:56:38
77.   Dark Horse
73-I was going to make the same point, actually. Not because I think Pierre will be different in any way, yet it still remains to be seen whether this signing is "extremely horrific" "in the long term" or not. I have a hard time imagining it'll be better than mediocre-ish (though, on the outside, it might,) but the exact impact of the signing AND its "long-term" effect are unknowable for now. By the same token, the long term effect of the Lugo trade won't be known til we see what Guzman and/or our draft picks become. This may seem to be nitpicking, but it isn't. Aside from the fact we were all in love with him in 2005, Guzman's value may well be less than Lugo's. Pierre, at 9M per, might seem ludicrous today and outrageously favorable in terms of trade value tomorrow. All these things have been hashed to death around here, yet none seem in any demonstrable way to be as catastrophic as some think.

I'd rather have Drew than Pierre or Gonzales. I'd rather have Drew than Pierre AND Gonzales. But I don't think we're gonna miss him much, if at all.

2006-12-19 12:57:13
78.   trainwreck
Watch out now. The Giants signed Ryan Klesko.
2006-12-19 13:05:37
79.   El Lay Dave
76 All blogging is obvious. I should have known.

The ERHS-FHS game used to be played at a neutral site (e.g. Rose Bowl, East LA City College). I also have vague recollections of it being a dual-homecoming, but it at least used to be the ERHS homecoming. I was once one of the little 7th-grade homecoming princess tiara-bearers traipsing across the Rose Bowl turf looking up at these amazingly huge, grown-up seniors. Now I'm just an old dude who sees that the football stars are the sons of former classmates!

2006-12-19 13:14:53
80.   ToyCannon
72
To bad, I was hoping he'd get to Minny so they could win a playoff spot and the Clips would get their number one pick this year. Two number ones and Kamen or Maggette might be enough to get them into Noah/Olden territory.
2006-12-19 13:17:53
81.   trainwreck
80
I am not sure Noah is a NBA center, but I guess with the lack of talent and size at that position now, he could do it. But I think he is ideally suited for the PF position.
2006-12-19 13:23:53
82.   ToyCannon
The center position is a black hole these days. I'd rather see an athletic front line like the Suns put out with Marion/Amare/Diow and a kickbutt PG to make it all happen.
The Suns are far and away the most enjoyable NBA team to watch.
2006-12-19 13:27:45
83.   Bob Timmermann
79
Looking in the old LA Times online, I see that the 1952 ERHS-FHS tilt was played at Occidental, which seems like a logical place to play.

The oldest game I could find was from 1936. Franklin won 13-0.

2006-12-19 13:35:13
84.   Benaiah
I have Andre Miller on my fantasy team. There is no way he is going to get 9-10 assists a game in Philly. No one can score on that team.

So when Melo comes back Denver is going to be something like:
Iverson
J.R. Smith
Melo
Reggie Evans?
Camby

All of those people claiming that A.I. would have a lot of assists on a team that can score will get to see if that is the case. Melo takes about 24 shots a game and Iverson takes even more than that. Denver is averaging about 85 shot attempts a game, so those two take up more than 50% of the shots on a team. Good luck getting the ball anyone else.

2006-12-19 13:38:33
85.   trainwreck
84
Yeah, until Nene gets in sahpe. Then he can just play defense and rebound, because he is not getting the ball on offense.
2006-12-19 13:40:08
86.   das411
Billy King is an embarassment to the NBA and to the city of Philadelphia. I don't want to link to Simmons but he ran a great piece last week about how truly remarkable Allen Iverson has been throughout his career, and I found myself agreeing with virtually every one of the emailed responses Page 2 posted. The day that deal, or any deal for that matter, goes down will be a sad day for basketball, and an even sadder one for the City of Brotherly Love.

I would've liked to see him go to either the Clips or TWolves and carry one of those teams to the playoffs, but to Denver? We talkin' bout Denver???

2006-12-19 13:42:14
87.   Greg Brock
86 Unless they get Greg Oden. Then all is forgiven?
2006-12-19 13:43:39
88.   trainwreck
Or Kevin Durant.

Clips were not going to give up Livingston and the Wolves had no one to offer to match salaries that was any good.

2006-12-19 13:47:45
89.   El Lay Dave
77 I think your point is different than the one in 63. Maybe in the last three years of his contract, that $9M price tag doesn't look like a payroll albatross. Maybe in later years he hits 8th. At least he's only 33 in that last year. It's fair enough that the jury stay out for now on the nature of long-term horror and Juan Pierre.

If I try to be optimistic, I note that Pierre has had three seasons where his OBP was .361 - .378 and three others (unfortunately including the two most recent) with an OBP around .330. If we get more of the 2001-3-4 Juan and less of the 2002-5-6, if Grady limits Juan to more optimal stealing situations, if Juan doesn't lose a step over the next five years.... Well, it IS the season for candy and nuts....

2006-12-19 13:53:28
90.   Daniel Zappala
Everyone missing the big news today, which like yesterday involves Stanford. Michelle Wie was accepted to Stanford and will attend in the fall.
2006-12-19 13:54:44
91.   D4P
how truly remarkable Allen Iverson has been throughout his career

He takes a lot of shots, and doesn't make very many of them.

2006-12-19 13:56:27
92.   Benaiah
86 - Eh, I am lukewarm on Iverson. I wouldn't put him on any team with better players than him, if that makes any sense. In other words, if you had a team that was full of solid role players and needed a star, then Iverson might do you well (the Bulls come to mind). But he is a horrible fit on any team with a truly great player (Miami, Lakers, Phoenix, Cleveland, and Denver, though maybe he would do ok on Minny).

If Philly loses most of the rest of their games, they would go into the lottery with the most chances at Ogden and 3 picks in what is supposed to be an incredibly deep draft. They save 8-9 million this year and 10 million next year on Iverson's contract. After next year, Webber is off the books too. They have less than 30 million committed beyond 2007-2008, so they will be able to go after a free agent or two and try to start over with young players. It wasn't like they were going to win with Iverson, so I don't see how this deal hurts them.

2006-12-19 13:58:45
93.   ToyCannon
86
I'm quite happy the answer is not headed to my Clips. I'll take the growing pains of Livingston over watching a 38% shooter launch 25 shots a game. Also as a Clipper fan and a revengefull person it thrills me to no end to see Andre Miller headed to the 76'rs.
2006-12-19 13:58:59
94.   El Lay Dave
78 Klesko may have nothing left, but a strict platoon at 1B with Aurilia provides career OPS of .934/.844. Of course, Klesko's last full season ('05) was .837 OPS vs. RHP (but Aurilia was 1.086 against LHP last year), but on the current Giant's roster that's still the #4 hitter, right behind Bonds!

They will still stink, however.

2006-12-19 14:01:28
95.   Fallout
60 OaklandAs
He was DePodesta's highest profile signing, and Colletti was happy to get rid of him,...LA seems to feel they are a better team without him - that's just ridiculous.

That is ridiculous. What makes you say that Colletti was happy to get rid of Drew? I got the opposite take from Colleti's response when Drew opted out.

2006-12-19 14:07:45
96.   D4P
This caption on ESPN:

Iverson's 31.2 ppg may fill the void created by Anthony's suspension.

To what extent is talking about adding 31.2 ppg like talking about adding a 100-RBI guy? I mean, points are a function of shots taken. If he doesn't take enough shots, he's not gonna score 31 points.

2006-12-19 14:07:50
97.   Fallout
94 El Lay Dave

I think Ray Durham is their #3 or 4 hitter with Bonds filling the other spot.

2006-12-19 14:09:57
98.   the count
Maybe a trade for Julio Franco to compete with Rich Aurilia is in the works. That would complete the Giants' youth movement.
2006-12-19 14:10:45
99.   OaklandAs
95 Well, clearly Colletti does not value high OBP, high OPS type players, of which Drew is one, as much as previous Dodger regimes. Colletti made no effort to re-structure Drew's existing deal, or to re-sign him after he opted out. What evidence is there that Colletti wanted Drew around?
2006-12-19 14:14:04
100.   Benaiah
Iguodala was more productive than Iverson last year, according to the Wages of Wins, and Dalembert, while mediocre for a big man, should play every day since they don't have anyone better. Miller is one of the best second tier point guards in the leauge, far behind the elites like Steve Nash, but still very productive. Korver should be a sixth man as his value is very limited. Everyone else on the team is miserable and generally unproductive. I think that in 2-3 years Philly might be good again, but if Denver undoes Carmelo's progress (he is far better this year than last year) than they will live to regret this trade.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-12-19 14:18:29
101.   Benaiah
100 - Following up on that, according to the Wages of Wins, Miller was more productive than Iverson last year. So according to that book, Philly just got a better player who costs half as much, plus it got two first round picks.
2006-12-19 14:20:56
102.   KOREANGUY
I've been reading dodger thoughts for over 2 years now, and never bother to post because I suck at writing. I just wanted to say, I'm probably nothing like any of the posters but I really enjoy reading DT. I've lived my entire high school life of getting high/drunk and barely graduating from a continuation H.S. Only thing I've always had in common with straight living people in LA has been the dodgers/lakers/raiders and none of my friends share my passion for the dodgers, so this website is like me being able to socialize with other people without these people being offended at my appearance(gang-attire), the way I talk, and just plain share the love for the Dodgers. Yes, I'm probably the drunk teenagers you guys were being agitated by on the cheap seats throwing napkins and other trash onto the lower seats.

I just want to thank Jon for providing a forum for guys like me to actually understand the sport instead of rooting for them just because their color is cool or their caps and jerseys look cool. I learned alot from reading this site about baseball.

I promise I will never again be one of those ignorant fan just getting drunk before the game and going there strictly to have fun as opposed to being their for the love of the dodgers.

p.s Even though dodgers come first before my lakers, KOBE's 81 is simply the greatest acheivement by an athlete in LA in my opinion. I think LA fans are so spoiled by Kobe that we expect more or less a crazy game from him every time out. It's like the dodgers go down by 5 runs and nomar hitting 6 home runs in a game to win it by 7 runs. sounds crazy, right? 81 points in one game in this day and age is just plain nuts.

2006-12-19 14:21:46
103.   the count
99 I'm sure he may not have valued Drew as highly as DePo, but there is no reason to think that Colletti did not recognize his value for $11 mil/year. I think Colletti's treatment only shows that he was more willing to take the risk that Drew would stay for 3 yr/$33 Mil as opposed to opening negotiations and spending 5 yr/$70 Mil.
2006-12-19 14:23:26
104.   El Lay Dave
83 I found this on some Dana Hills HS message board Dana Point (sic) is not a Highland Park or Eagle Rock where a great coach can create a football magnet school enticing wide bodies and lightning (sic) backs into the fold. Eagle Rock / great coach / football magnet! Not a long tradition anyway.... And what is this "Highland Park" HS of which he speaks?
2006-12-19 14:24:19
105.   D4P
Following up on that, according to the Wages of Wins, Miller was more productive than Iverson last year. So according to that book, Philly just got a better player who costs half as much, plus it got two first round picks.

Yeah, great trade for Philly, setting aside "putting bottoms in the seats" considerations...

2006-12-19 14:27:45
106.   El Lay Dave
90 That would be big news (outside of the Wie family) if she was still eligible to compete on the women's golf team. Of course, I'm just jealous because Stanford didn't accept me all those years ago.
2006-12-19 14:28:53
107.   Sam DC
102 Howdy, and I'll just say that's a thoughtful and finely written comment. So please keep weighing in if you want, and certainly don't let worries about your writing hold you back.

And if Bob gets snippy, well, I'll have Icaros give him a talking to.

2006-12-19 14:32:12
108.   Benaiah
105 - Eh, they had to trade him so the damage was done. If/when they are good again then people will forgive and forget. Plus, Billy King is going to get fired and then most fans will assume that it is a new regime, one that didn't trade the Answer. Philly seems like a lock to get a top 4 pick and these are the likely players to choose from: Oden, Noah, Hansborough, McRoberts and Durant. Not too shabby.
2006-12-19 14:34:26
109.   El Lay Dave
102 Welcome. Kobe's 81 is a great achievement, no doubt, but for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to hold our long-lasting captivation. Maybe because it was just a regular season game - but then again, so was 4+1. Perhaps you're right and Kobe's 81 should be more of a "moment" for us.
2006-12-19 14:36:23
110.   D4P
108
I'd like to see the Lakers make a similar trade involving Kobe, but that's not gonna happen.
2006-12-19 14:36:52
111.   das411
102 - Welcome! If the DT community has room for a Philly fan like me then you will definitely fit right in :)

105 - Bingo. The Sixers without AI are now the Devil Rays of the NBA.

Look, you can say all you want about Iverson being overrated, poor shooting %, and so on but at the end of the day, he is the face of the franchise and they will be trading him away for what will be seen, fairly or not, as role players and prospects. It's just like the constant Manny Ramirez trade rumors, nobody was willing to offer fair value for him so the team held on and built around him instead. Why couldn't the Sixers just hold onto AI (like Pat Gillick is doing with Burrell, fyi)? You tell me, but make sure you do it in the STEPHEN A SMITH SHOUTING VOICE!

93 - TC, care to elaborate on "as a Clipper fan and a revengefull person it thrills me to no end to see Andre Miller headed to the 76'rs." ?

2006-12-19 14:38:45
112.   Daniel Zappala
102 You're certainly welcome here and I appreciate your insight. Hope you're able to turn your life around.
2006-12-19 14:39:36
113.   Penarol1916
108. Agree except for McRoberts, that guy will be no better than Cherokee Parks. Jeff Green will be twice the pro he is.
2006-12-19 14:40:35
114.   Xeifrank
If you don't live in the greater LA area (but still coastal SoCal) you have many clear days with not only views of mountains upon mountains, but also islands upon islands. I like my LA to be conveniently close, but out of sight and smell. :)
vr, Xei
2006-12-19 14:40:47
115.   El Lay Dave
97 If it were up to me, I'd bat Durham 2 and Bonds 3, but what do I know? It's still a horrible looking lineup.

Modified from my earlier comment at The Griddle (http://tinyurl.com/y8jtnk)

Career OPS:

1B - Aurilia/Klesko .844(LHP) / .934(RHP)
2B - Ray Durham .797
SS - Omar Vizquel .702
3B - Pedro Feliz .724
LF - Barry Bonds 1.051
CF - Dave Roberts .715
RF - Randy Winn .764
C - Bengie Molina .717

Barry and a bunch of 7th and 8th place hitters. What an ugly season they're going to have.

2006-12-19 14:42:52
116.   Xeifrank
If Philly is smart they will make a trade to get expiring contracts (to make the salary match) and draft picks. Not a trade to make them good this year. Greg Oden (or however you spell his last name) should be the goal. I'd take my chances in the lottery, plus the other draft picks and expiring contracts. vr, Xei
2006-12-19 14:49:54
117.   dzzrtRatt
102 Hey Koreanguy, you write very well. Keep it up. And please, post all you want here -- it would be great to get your perspective.

However: Promise me you won't drive when you're drunk or high. Call a cab. Don't break your mom's heart, or some other mom's. Be safe.

2006-12-19 14:56:03
118.   Bob Timmermann
106
Like El Lay Dave, I didn't get in to Stanford, but I'm not bitter. I'm more the type who has a simmering rage about the topic that bubbles up to the surface at various times. It's kind of like "The Shining."
2006-12-19 14:56:42
119.   Marty
But I'm guessing she can't be on the golf team since she's a pro
2006-12-19 14:57:06
120.   El Lay Dave
In comparison and because this is DODGERthoughts, projected Dodger lineup career OPS:

1B - Garciaparra .907
2B - Kent .860
SS - Furcal .766
3B - Betemit .765
LF - Gonzalez .852
CF - Pierre .727
RF - Ethier .842
C - Martin .791

2006-12-19 14:57:42
121.   Benaiah
113 - As a Duke Alum I respectfully disagree.

111 - I agree he was the face of the franchise, but it is a franchise that is terrible right now. With Iverson the team was playing sub .300 basketball, without him they have a chance to build toward something.

As for not being able to get market value for him, he demanded a trade so it is hard to pretend that you are going to keep him.

2006-12-19 14:58:43
122.   El Lay Dave
118 All work and no blog make Bob a dull boy?
2006-12-19 15:01:18
123.   ssjames
118 Who would want to go to Stanford anyway when there is far superior and cheaper school right across the bay?

If wasn't for the fact that my first argument before the Ninth Circuit was at Stanford's campus while the judges were visiting, there would be next nothing good about Stanford. I am sure Jon would agree.

2006-12-19 15:01:47
124.   ToyCannon
111
I could go on and on but that would boor the DT folks here. Just suffice to say that AD didn't give us his best and he's the last player I want with the ball in his hands in a close game in the NBA.
2006-12-19 15:01:49
125.   Bob Timmermann
Redrum! Redrum!
2006-12-19 15:02:33
126.   Bob Timmermann
Andre Miller was proof that you can't go home again.
2006-12-19 15:05:09
127.   Greg Brock
126 So was Strawberry (a Timmermann favorite).
2006-12-19 15:05:41
128.   Jon Weisman
102 - Very glad to have you here - and I echo what the previous commenters have said. Thanks for your very nice note.
2006-12-19 15:06:40
129.   JoeyP
111--normally I'd agree. But this year's upcoming NBA draft is going to be loaded. I think the 76'ers being able to land 3 #1 picks, was outstanding.

Iverson is also entering his late prime. This deal is akin to when the Cowboys traded Herschel Walker for a bunch of picks.

I like the deal for the 76'ers.

2006-12-19 15:10:02
130.   ToyCannon
102
That was one of the best 1st posts I've ever read.
2006-12-19 15:14:09
131.   underdog
125 Speaking of Redrum, I just interviewed (real briefly) Joe Bob Briggs, drive-in movie critic, and he mentioned he's part of a new horror TV network by that name. Sounds cool...
{{{cheap plug alert}}} interview: http://tinyurl.com/y3k2vb
2006-12-19 15:15:30
132.   underdog
And speaking of Stanford, what are your thoughts on Jim Harbaugh, Jon? (Personally, I think it's a good move - he's a risk but not much of one, seems like a real good coach.)
2006-12-19 15:21:39
133.   Jon Weisman
132 - I have no idea. He sounds more promising than Harris, and the Teevens hiring never made sense to me, and I still can't help but think we should have gotten Chow when we had the chance, but I guess I'm cautiously optimistic. We're sort of due to bounce back, anyway.

I'm more worried about the basketball program - I'd like to see that get back to the top of the conference.

2006-12-19 15:21:50
134.   Berkeley Doug
OT -

I want to buy a baseball book for a friend for Christmas and I want to solicit the DT community's suggestions for a good book. The friend is a casual fan of baseball and I'm looking for non-team specific book (e.g. no Boys of Summer, as good as it may be). My initial thought is the Glory of Their Times, but I'm open to other suggestions. Thanks.

2006-12-19 15:22:51
135.   El Lay Dave
We're talking about draft picks. Not the flesh-and-blood players that go out there to play every game like it's their last, but we're talking about draft picks, man!

The Sixers may be making the best of a bad situation, but could they have done better in the last off-season? The picks are Denver's and Dallas's. Philly's own pick will be lottery, but Denver is a probable playoff projection and Dallas is very likely late 1st round.

2006-12-19 15:25:41
136.   El Lay Dave
133 Jon, any theories why Norm Chow has never been a head coach despite his name always coming up? I might hazard a shot-in-the-dark guess that he's not a good interview, but what do I know?
2006-12-19 15:26:54
137.   Jon Weisman
136 - There are way bigger experts on college football here than me. My guess would be people fear he can't keep points off the board, but I really don't know.
2006-12-19 15:28:09
138.   trainwreck
102
Welcome to the Dodgers/Lakers/Raiders fan club.
2006-12-19 15:29:19
139.   Bob Timmermann
134
"The Glory of Their Times" is oral history. If you're friend likes that sort of stuff it's the best ever in the genre.

Even though it might not meet your criteria, "The Echoing Green" by Joshua Prager is great. The story of Thomson and Branca is really brought to life and expanded well beyond just one pitch in October.

2006-12-19 15:29:37
140.   trainwreck
136
Money and prestige. It would have taken a lot to get him out of USC and now that he is in the NFL he is not going to want to go back to college unless he gets a top job.
2006-12-19 15:43:00
141.   jdm025
If any of you haven't read this column by Jayson Stark about the 4+1 game, you really should.

http://tinyurl.com/y8zayu

Look down about halfway on the page under the title "The Most Amazing Finish Ever" for the stupefying mathematical odds against all of the events of that game.

Here is just one comment he made: "A team that was last in the league in home runs entering this game (the Dodgers) hit four ninth-inning home runs in a row, in a span of seven pitches -- off two pitchers (Jon Adkins and Trevor Hoffman) who had given up three homers all season, to the previous 432 hitters they'd faced, in a combined 108 appearances. And then the same team hit another homer in the 10th to turn a loss into a win. Odds of that: 19 trillion to one."

2006-12-19 15:50:55
142.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
I'm another Eagle Rock High School graduate. I remember listening to the '65 World Series there on my transistor radio. Baseball seemed so much more important back then.

The principal at ERHS used to boast that Eagle Rock did "very well considering it was the smallest high school in the L.A. city school district." (Not saying very much. I don't remember our winning any championships, but we did get to play Franklin High School in the Rose Bowl for our Homecoming game).

On the topic of this thread, I'm not going to bash J.D., but I cannot say I'm sorry to see him go.

Has there been any discussion here yet about the possibility of a trade for Rios? I was getting excited about this rumor (http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=315&p=2&c=601667) of Alex Rios and Reed Johnson (with Dustin McGowan as a throw-in) for Brad Penny.

2006-12-19 15:52:54
143.   Bob Timmermann
142
Eagle Rock never won a City championship in any sport until the late 1980s when it won a lower division boys tennis title. It was a big deal at the time. That left Verdugo Hills as the only school on the outside of the candy store looking in and then they won a girls softball title.

Now there are new high schools, so Santee, Southeast, and Santee Highs are on the clock!

2006-12-19 15:57:03
144.   Daniel Zappala
Bob strikes again. I can only add the personal note that I have been to Eagle Rock a number of times because I have a great-aunt and uncle that live there.
2006-12-19 15:57:58
145.   Eric Enders
134 The Glory of Their Times is the one baseball book everybody should read whether they're a baseball fan or not. I've probably bought 8 or 10 copies of it by now because I keep giving it away to people.

I'd also recommend Veeck As In Wreck, which is impossible not to enjoy.

There are some team-specific books that really appeal to the general reader whether they're a fan of that team or not -- Boys of Summer and Ball Four come to mind.

A couple of other really good ones:
Duke of Havana by Fainaru/Sanchez
The Way It Is by Curt Flood

2006-12-19 15:59:15
146.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
143
Eagle Rock must have gotten a new tennis coach by then. The guy there in the 60s was nearing retirement and was worthless.

Any thoughts about trading Penny to get Rios?

2006-12-19 16:04:02
147.   D4P
Any thoughts about trading Penny to get Rios?

Penny is worth a lot more than Rios

2006-12-19 16:06:18
148.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
147.
I think the rumor was Reed Johnson and Rios for Penny. I'm pretty high on Rios. Had he not had a staph infection last year, he might have been quite something. Great start and great finish and he's only 25.
2006-12-19 16:10:20
149.   Eric Enders
I think Penny for Rios would be fine. It's the thought of throwing an extra outfielder in (Kemp or Ethier) that makes me nauseous.
2006-12-19 16:13:29
150.   D4P
In addition to being a good pitcher, Penny has a great contract. Consider that he'll be getting paid as much Randy Wolf this season...
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-12-19 16:13:31
151.   blue22
148 - Don't we have enough corner OFers though? Between Gonzo, Ethier, and Loney, all are due a certain amount of playing time (whether it be for talent or contractual reasons, and that doesn't even consider Matt Kemp). Giving up Penny for what would amount to be a righty-platoon mate for Ethier or Gonzo seems excessive. Better to package Penny with Ethier for a replacement, rather than add another body to the fold.
2006-12-19 16:15:12
152.   Sushirabbit
145, I hear Ballparks Then and Now looks good, too. I've already suggested it to my wife as a future present. :-)

I really appreciated the book threads in the past. I've recently been reading James Agee's 'On Film'. Times like this, I'd love there to be links or a FAQ or something. Like a recommended reading list that was easy to find. I can go back and search, but that's one thing about blogs is that they can be hard to navigate.

I just finised getting a x86 machine to boot OS X and Ubuntu. Next up getting XP and Vista on the IDE drive. Quadruple boot, baby. See... I can "waste" an equal amount of time on things besides this supremely cool (c00l,Kewl) blog.

2006-12-19 16:19:12
153.   Berkeley Doug
Ballparks Then and Now has a place on my bookshelf.

Bob & Eric - Thanks for the suggestions.

2006-12-19 16:28:30
154.   Andrew Shimmin
SB was nearly the Karate Kid, now Sushirabbit wants to be the next Mathew Broderick.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0865957/

2006-12-19 16:29:42
155.   trainwreck
I would do Penny for Rios and Brandon League.
2006-12-19 16:30:14
156.   Jason in Canada
Besides Jon's, which books have you read about the Dodgers/or Dodger biographies that you would think are the best? I really enjoyed Duke Snider's book.. Any others?
2006-12-19 16:30:57
157.   trainwreck
Shushirabbit is really that guy? lol
2006-12-19 16:31:09
158.   trainwreck
*sushi
2006-12-19 16:32:53
159.   Andrew Shimmin
No; I just really wanted to post that link, so I used his computer geeky post as a justification.
2006-12-19 16:34:41
160.   Andrew Shimmin
Will the Poinsettia Bowl be Griddled? Or should we post all our Northern Illinois Thoughts here?
2006-12-19 16:35:19
161.   trainwreck
A male model and a computer geek. I am sure there has to be a couple of those in the world.
2006-12-19 16:37:11
162.   Eric Enders
155 That was a really interesting post until word #6.
2006-12-19 16:38:54
163.   bhsportsguy
Glory of Their Times is a great book and you will discover that many of the same issues that we have today, existed a hundred years ago.
2006-12-19 16:39:55
165.   trainwreck
I am not Alyssa Milano.
2006-12-19 16:41:31
166.   trainwreck
164
Can we sign a petition to get that deal done?

I have been a stoner for a long time too, so do not worry.

2006-12-19 16:42:31
167.   Eric Enders
156 The Jane Leavy book on Koufax is really good. John Roseboro's autobiography is fantastic, although hard to find. It's very blunt and honest, unlike a lot of ex-jock autobiographies.

I'm also a big fan of Jay Johnstone's autobiography, "Temporary Insanity." I haven't read it since I was a teenager, but I remember it being just about the funniest thing I'd ever read.

2006-12-19 16:43:50
168.   Vishal
i never thought i'd find myself jealous of the clean LA air, hah. the air in beijing is so bad, that on many days you can barely see a mile or so before buildings in the "distance" disappear into the brown haze. you can actually smell the pollution in the air when it's bad, and when you blow your nose, your snot is black. and for some reason, it's worse in the winter when it's cold, because it seems to sharpen up the smokiness. however, the good days are better, when the frigid wind from mongolia blows all the bad air out.
2006-12-19 16:44:45
169.   trainwreck
Black snot. That has to be a great for your health.
2006-12-19 16:45:51
170.   bhsportsguy
156 Boys of Summer is good.

For what it is and I'm not sure you can find it now but "Mr. Clutch," Jerry West's biography is a really interesting insight into a true NBA superstar who anyone born int the last 30 years know as an NBA executive. West and Baylor were the first L.A. dynamic duo and along with Chick Hearn, made the Lakers into the institution it became. The biography ends after the Lakers lost the finals against the Knicks in 1970 and West was thinking that he would retire without ever winning a championship. Fortunately for him and L.A., they would the first title in L.A. in 1972. West of course would continue to be a part of the Lakers for nearly 30 more years and as long as Kobe remains a Laker, his legacy will continue to grace the Los Angeles.

2006-12-19 16:46:18
171.   Linkmeister
"Willie's Time" by Charles Einstein is very good. It's a history of baseball in the 1950s.
2006-12-19 16:47:01
172.   Jon Weisman
164 - I think you embellished that original comparison in an unfortunate way, but I get the idea.
2006-12-19 16:47:21
173.   bhsportsguy
164 Boy I missed that one, and though Jon never's says it enough, this is a family site.
2006-12-19 16:48:39
174.   Jon Weisman
What about novels? Malamud? Kinsella? I know Field of Dreams and The Natural can polarize people (though I liked them), but the books Shoeless Joe and The Natural are pretty magical.

Also, you can never go wrong with Roger Angell's finest.

2006-12-19 16:49:56
175.   Berkeley Doug
156

Let me second Eric's recommendation of Jane Leavy's book about Sandy Koufax. I would also recommend "The Boys of Summer". There is also a book out there (whose name escapes me now) that gives a nice straight forward history of the Dodgers until, I believe, the early 1990s.

2006-12-19 16:51:29
176.   Bill Crain
The Great American Novel by Philip Roth

It really is the Great American Novel.

2006-12-19 16:51:55
177.   regfairfield
Werth's deal with the Phillies was for $850,000. Ned really couldn't match that?
2006-12-19 16:53:04
178.   Marty
For baseball fiction, I love "The Great American Novel" by Roth, and "The Natural" by Malamud. Hopefully, your friend has not seen the horrible movie version of The Natural.

For non-fiction, the only baseball book I've enjoyed is "Ball Four"

2006-12-19 16:54:00
179.   Linkmeister
Andrew, here's a good guide to the bowl games that appeared in my local paper but was picked up from the Contra Costa Times.

http://www.linkmeister.com/blog/archives/002193.html

The Poinsettia bowl is panned.

2006-12-19 16:56:26
180.   Jon Weisman
164 - edited.

164. KOREANGUY
in response to some of the welcoming posters,

to be honest, I found DT through reading DODGER BLUES, i love the raw commentaries and exaggerated opinions. My favorite was when the dodgers were compared to seeing a hot chick at a club that smiles at you and just when you think u might have a chance u see her afterwards (with another) guy........

OH BTW, since my high school days, im serving in the National guard and looking forward to becoming a positive contributor in society!!! i still hit the bong here and there, but no more crimes!!!!

to dzzrtRatt,
I'm sorry to say its a little too late, mom's heart broken many times over(DUI, JUVENILLE HALL, ETC.)

i'm I in waaay over my head in proposing this trade? 3 team deal (not up to par in analyzing transactions and so forth with u guys.....yet)

TO LA : CARL CRAWFORD and prospect

TO TB : ETHIER AND BLALOCK

TO TX : PENNY AND BETEMIT

2006-12-19 16:57:20
181.   Berkeley Doug
I would also recommend any of Roger Angell's collections of his articles about baseball.

Charles Einstein also has a couple of Baseball Readers, which are a compilation of various articles, fiction stories, etc. about baseball. For example, John Updike's classic story about Ted Williams' last game "Hub Fans Bid Kid Adieu", a transcript of Vin Scully's call of the ninth inninf of Sandy Koufax's perfect game, Roger Angell World Series recaps from The New Yorker, etc.

2006-12-19 16:58:10
182.   Eric Enders
I tend to be of the opinion that (with a few exceptions) there's no such thing as good baseball fiction. Most of it is good bathroom reading in case you run out of TP.

Which I guess is why I've never read The Great American Novel, although I like some of Roth's other stuff.

2006-12-19 17:01:52
183.   Marty
Roth occasionally gets outr of control in TGAN, but it's a great story. So many good characters. The Rupert Mundys are one of the great fictional teams. And Mike "the mouth" Masterson is a truly tragic figure.
2006-12-19 17:04:26
184.   Andrew Shimmin
I keep reading Roth, but the only book of his I've liked a lot was American Pastoral. Portnoy's Complaint didn't do much for me at all, and, while I did like TGAN, I didn't love it.
2006-12-19 17:05:24
185.   Andrew Shimmin
So, five minutes past five and it looks like TCU is going to steamroll NIU.
2006-12-19 17:06:26
186.   Marty
Plus there's a character in TGAM, the son of the owner of the team who has all these new fangled theories on how to play baseball, like no bunting. Here's some quotes:

"But what good is a big league team if the big league team plays the game all wrong!"

"In your eyes all wrong. But not to de big leekers! Isaac, please, if de goyim say bunt, let dem bunt!"

2006-12-19 17:07:04
187.   trainwreck
I just assume NIU is Wolfe and then a bunch of other people that do not matter.
2006-12-19 17:08:07
188.   Andrew Shimmin
186- Yeah, and look how he turned out! Roth has some Plaschkean sympathies, even if he's able to crank out a multi-sentence paragraph.
2006-12-19 17:09:33
189.   trainwreck
I just started taking Spirulina this blue-green algae because it is essentially like eating a giant heap of cruciferous vegetables.

It is so disgusting.

2006-12-19 17:09:47
190.   Berkeley Doug
I would also recommend David Halberstam's baseball books, especially "Summer of '49", and George Will's baseball books. I'm reading the new Lou Gehrig biography right now, "The Luckiest Man", and it also a good read.
2006-12-19 17:09:58
191.   Bill Crain
Then there's Eight Men Out, but is that fiction? And Ring Lardner.

Only USC grads truly appreciate Roth's book.

2006-12-19 17:11:54
192.   Bill Crain
190 Bill James totally trashed The Summer of 49. I think convincingly.
2006-12-19 17:13:03
193.   Eric Enders
190, 191 It's sold as nonfiction, although both Asinof and Halberstam have had many of their facts called into question by SABR types.
2006-12-19 17:14:21
194.   Andrew Shimmin
Right now, Marty's trying to figure out how to send me an envelope full of anthrax by email.
2006-12-19 17:15:10
195.   Vishal
[90] eh, everybody makes mistakes :P
2006-12-19 17:20:31
196.   Andrew Shimmin
Two blocked kicks in the first twenty minutes. It may be time to see if anything else is on.
2006-12-19 17:20:42
197.   trainwreck
Stanford is pretty much guaranteed to win women's golf next year, right?
2006-12-19 17:24:06
198.   Jon Weisman
197 - Wie's ineligible, I would think.
2006-12-19 17:25:31
199.   trainwreck
Please beat Duke, Kent St.
2006-12-19 17:25:32
200.   Jim Hitchcock
Oh, gee, thanks, Jon...it was a blistering 6 degrees on the way to work this morning in Carson City.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-12-19 17:26:38
201.   Gen3Blue
I always love a guy who will play hurt and then abandon a 50 mil contract for a 70 mil one----he definitely has everyone elses best interests in mind.
2006-12-19 17:27:37
202.   Linkmeister
Got down into the high 60s over on Lanai, too. On Oahu it was as low as 72 degrees overnight. That's almost four-blanket territory.
2006-12-19 17:28:54
203.   trainwreck
198
Oh yeah, good point. I forgot she has been a pro since 15 or so.
2006-12-19 17:29:00
204.   das411
There needs to be a way to only buy the first section of Don DeLillo's "Underworld", yknow, the part with everybody's favorite 1951 playoff game. I can thank Gammons for pointing me towards that one in one o' his columns, and it is perhaps the finest baseball writing I have ever read.

Of course I also enjoyed "The Worst Team Money Could Buy" and that other '86 Mets book with the mile-long title. "Willie's Time" I read a couple of years ago but it has faded fast, maybe after that last final tomorrow...

2006-12-19 17:29:28
205.   Bill Crain
198 Typical of Stanford: admitting athletes with questionable elgibility.
2006-12-19 17:29:38
206.   Jon Weisman
200 - I should live in a colder climate than I do. Anything over 75 is pretty much wasted on me. I'd rather see 6 than 106.
2006-12-19 17:32:02
207.   Vishal
all this stanford talk at least has me appreciating what jon and daniel must feel like during college football season.
2006-12-19 17:33:08
208.   trainwreck
I think Harbaugh gives Stanford fans some reason for optimism.
2006-12-19 17:35:53
209.   trainwreck
Some people on a college football board were saying they heard Stanford told Harbaugh they were goin to be a little more lax when it comes to academics in regards to football players.

I have no idea where they heard it from.

2006-12-19 17:39:03
210.   Vishal
c'mon, syracuse has no business losing to drexel. those guys are so maddeningly inconsistent.
2006-12-19 17:41:38
211.   trainwreck
210
They cannot shoot.
2006-12-19 17:42:52
212.   Jon Weisman
209 - They may have told him that, but I have real doubts about it being true. If Mike Montgomery couldn't get them to relax admissions, I don't think a new football coach with no 1-A experience (right?) will. I don't think football is that important to Stanford to start compromising, especially when it has only been a few years since the school was winning football games.
2006-12-19 17:43:35
213.   Marty
The prologue for Underworld is brilliant. I've tried three time to get through the rest of the book and have failed.
2006-12-19 17:43:55
214.   bhsportsguy
It has been said that the best sports subjects for books are baseball, boxing and golf.

Not sure about the latter two though Feinstein's look at the majors was interesting.

2006-12-19 17:44:25
215.   Marty
It was 34 degrees in my neighborhood last night.
2006-12-19 17:45:39
216.   Vishal
[211] that seems to be an accurate observation.
2006-12-19 17:48:05
217.   Marty
Vishal, if the air in Beijing is that bad, I can't wait for the marathon in 2008.
2006-12-19 17:50:32
218.   Jon Weisman
213 - My copy of Underworld was abandoned at the Stockholm train station shortly after I finished the first chapter.
2006-12-19 17:56:25
219.   Marty
Sweden is not better off for it.
2006-12-19 17:56:39
220.   Vishal
[217] they're working on it. i think they're trying to manipulate the weather somehow so it's not so bad for the olympics. they actually had the annual beijing marathon a month and a half ago, and while it wasn't a completely clear day, it wasn't as horrible as it is, say, today. maybe through some combination of ingenuity and luck it won't be so bad in '08.
2006-12-19 17:58:32
221.   Bob Timmermann
Since no one could the use full corporate name for the Poinsettia Bowl, it did not go on the Griddle.

It is the San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl.

The San Diego County Credit Union is the 5th largest credit union in California and the 14th largest in the US.

For those scoring at home, the Navy's credit union is the largest one in the country. Over $25 billion in assets.

2006-12-19 17:58:32
222.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
L.A. in the late 50s and early 60s was unbelievably smoggy (before the days of the catalytic converter). As a kid, I remember the class coming in from recess and coughing for an hour.

Nothing I saw then, though, compares to Beijing now. Just riding in the back of a cab there during rush hour makes you long for clean air. I felt like I was breathing straight out of the exhaust pipe. I could actually taste the soot.

2006-12-19 17:59:04
223.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
L.A. in the late 50s and early 60s was unbelievably smoggy (before the days of the catalytic converter). As a kid, I remember the class coming in from recess and coughing for an hour.

Nothing I saw then, though, compares to Beijing now. Just riding in the back of a cab there during rush hour makes you long for clean air. I felt like I was breathing straight out of the exhaust pipe. I could actually taste the soot.

2006-12-19 18:00:10
224.   Bob Timmermann
I saw tumbleweeds in Hermon today on the way to work. First time I've ever seen those in that part of town.
2006-12-19 18:00:12
225.   Bill Crain
218
Only editors of The New Yorker have to pretend to like Don DeLillo. I'm pretty sure SI doesn't have that requirement. Instead, try Charles Portis.

Just one man's opinion. (Fella name'a Smith ... First name Word ...)

2006-12-19 18:02:05
226.   Marty
OK Bob, where's Hermon?
2006-12-19 18:04:34
227.   Bob Timmermann
226
http://www.hermon.org/public/index.php
2006-12-19 18:05:58
228.   Vishal
all this delillo hatred is interesting. i never really gave it much thought one way or the other, but i felt white noise was an okay novel. that's all i've ever read of his though. he just seems... unremarkable.
2006-12-19 18:07:36
229.   Bill Crain
227 Okay, I was wondering where the library was:

http://tinyurl.com/y2c4gy

2006-12-19 18:07:44
230.   Marty
I'm ok with recognizing Garvanza, but I'm not sure about Hermon.
2006-12-19 18:08:54
231.   Jon Weisman
228 - Yes, I liked White Noise.
2006-12-19 18:12:35
232.   Vishal
[222] yup, it's the main reason i'm looking forward to going back to the states in a few weeks.
2006-12-19 18:16:57
233.   Bob Timmermann
There used to be a Hermon Avenue for years until then Councilman Art Snyder got its name changed to Via Marisol in honor of his daughter.

The area is named after a church that was built in the area in the early 20th century.

2006-12-19 18:18:27
234.   Bill Crain
Does anyone else think the 'before' picture of Highland Perk looks 100% better than the 'after' picture?

Could that question be any more OT?

2006-12-19 18:19:19
235.   Bob Timmermann
Is Highland Perk the place where the Scottish version of "Friends" took place?
2006-12-19 18:21:42
236.   Jason in Canada
Has anyone read "The Giants and the Dodgers: Four Cities, Two Teams, One Rivalry" By Andrew Goldblatt? Also I heard that Carl Erskine has a book out.. any opinions?
2006-12-19 18:22:23
237.   Bill Crain
235 Possibly, but it now looks more like it belongs in the bizarro world version.

http://tinyurl.com/yz2vmq

2006-12-19 18:24:19
238.   Bob Timmermann
237
I can't say either version of that building looks good.

It's odd that the website has to tell you where Highland Park is

"between Eagle Rock and South Pasadena!"

even though more people live in Highland Park than the other two places.

2006-12-19 18:24:39
239.   das411
I just wrote an English paper discussing whether the following should be considered Great Books:

The Kite Runner, Khaled Hosseini
The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night Time, Mark Haddon
White Noise, Don DeLillo

...guess which one did not make the cut?

2006-12-19 18:25:21
240.   Greg Brock
Wow. I know what Tobias Fünke would say about that coffee shop.
2006-12-19 18:28:16
241.   Bill Crain
238 I was born in Highland Park. There should be a plaque, like the one in Vegas that honors the memory of Moe Green.
2006-12-19 18:29:29
242.   Bob Timmermann
It's also described on its website as:

"Three blocks west of Figeuroa Street on York Boulevard"

2006-12-19 18:31:17
243.   Icaros
I liked White Noise. The protagonist's son cracked me up.

Great Jones Street is interesting, though lesser-known. I wouldn't be surprised if Roger Waters read it at some point before writing The Wall.

That's all the DeLillo I've read.

2006-12-19 18:31:19
244.   Bob Timmermann
It's a salute to Northeast Los Angeles today on Dodger Thoughts?

We're looking for anyone from Cypress Park or Montecito Heights to drop by and give us a shout out! If you're from Lincoln Heights, call us now!

2006-12-19 18:31:45
245.   Greg Brock
This was a great man - a man of vision and guts. And there isn't even a plaque - or a signpost - or a statue of him in that town!
2006-12-19 18:32:31
246.   Bill Crain
Be sure to patronize only The Highland Park Certified Farmers Market. Beware the cheap, tawdry, unauthorized version. From that one, the farmer gets no royalties.
2006-12-19 18:32:43
247.   Greg Brock
241 That was very funny.
2006-12-19 18:33:15
248.   Bob Timmermann
If it's truly a Northeast Los Angeles Day here, we should refer to the Dodgers in this way:

Jeff Kent would be Dodger 12.
Juan Pierre would be Dodger 9.
Joe Beimel will be Dodger 97.

2006-12-19 18:33:50
249.   Sam DC
We had a book discussion on April 21, 2005. I made a list capturing most of the books mentioned that day, though you'd need to check the archived thread to find out if they were listed because people liked them or hated them.

Voices of the Game
Moneyball
Boys of Summer
I Never Had it Made
Sandy Koufax: A Lefty's Legacy
Baseball Before We Knew It
National Pastime: How Americans Play Baseball and the Rest of the World Plays Soccer
Game Time
The Last Great Season
Rampersand's Jackie Robinson: A Biography
A Whole Different Ball Game
Stolen Season
Willie's Time (warning Giants-related)
Nice Guys Finish Last
Bums
Nine Innings
The Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract
The Great American Novel
The Natural
True Blue
The Glory of Their Times
My 30 Years in Dodger Blue
Prophet of the Sandlots (spoiler alert -- if you read the thread on this there's a surprise ending giveaway)
Ball Four
Lords of the Realm

2006-12-19 18:37:44
250.   Greg Brock
You Gotta Have Wa?
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-12-19 18:38:20
251.   Bob Timmermann
250
I suppose you do, but I don't see how it's germane to the discussion....
2006-12-19 18:39:06
252.   Greg Brock
Walked right into that one.
2006-12-19 18:39:34
253.   Bill Crain
244 Funny you should mention that. I now live in Montecito Heights. It's on the east side of Napa. It was 28 here last night.

247 Thanks, Greg. Something happened a week after the Notre Dame game made you feel much better?

2006-12-19 18:41:52
254.   Greg Brock
253 Navy beat Army!
2006-12-19 18:42:58
255.   Bob Timmermann
254
And that brings us back to the all important topic of credit unions and the San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl.

The Horned Frogs lead the Huskies 16-0 at the half.

2006-12-19 18:44:23
256.   Greg Brock
Navy Federal Credit Union was very good to me. Gave me my first ever loan, which I used to buy a computer.

The NFCU was much better to me than the computer.

2006-12-19 18:45:36
257.   Greg Brock
Is Bowl Week still brought to us by Capital One?
2006-12-19 18:50:45
258.   Bob Timmermann
257
Who else could bring out the excitement of bowl week better than Capital One?

Since I will be out of town and in a home with no cable, I will be shut out from the Sheraton Hawai'i Bowl on Christmas Eve.

I will be working during the Motor City Bowl between Middle Tennessee St. and Central Michigan.

2006-12-19 18:55:54
259.   trainwreck
How could you miss the Motor City Bowl?
2006-12-19 18:58:40
260.   Bob Timmermann
259
I tried to ask for it off as a religious holiday, but no one would go for it.

Central Michigan is in Mount Pleasant, Michigan. Mount Pleasant has been described as a city where both parts of its name are incorrect in describing the city.

2006-12-19 19:02:55
261.   trainwreck
Ernie Ziegler, who was on Ben Howland's staff last year, is the head coach at Central Michigan. I guess that is a good enough reason to root for their football team in that game.
2006-12-19 19:03:05
262.   Bill Crain
The San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl - of Mount Pleasant, Michigan. Brought to you by Arte Moreno - of Tucson, Arizona.
2006-12-19 19:07:22
263.   Steve
That's Capital Oneperson to you.
2006-12-19 19:07:57
264.   Bob Timmermann
The largest credit union in Mount Pleasant, Michigan is the Isabella Community Credit Union. It also is the only one headquatered there.

There is a branch of the Nuunion Credit Union, but that's just a branch, so it doesn't count.

Anybody need their routing numbers so they can commit wire fraud to kill time.

2006-12-19 19:09:35
265.   Bill Crain
As we (should have) learned from MST3K: just because you can cut-and-paste doesn't mean you should.
2006-12-19 19:15:17
266.   das411
Was it Werth or Repko that did his best Aaron Rowand impersonation to make that catch a couple years ago?
2006-12-19 19:16:12
267.   trainwreck
Repko.
2006-12-19 19:28:53
268.   Steve
Repko made some catch at the beginning of 2006, but the catch that Mr. das411 is talking about is Werth's circus catch in Colorado, if I have my ancient history correct.
2006-12-19 19:29:18
269.   Steve
Or maybe against Colorado but in LA. Or maybe it was against Pittsburgh.
2006-12-19 19:30:24
270.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Werth made a circus catch of a drive off the bat of Charles Johnson in Denver back in aught four. Many a man who saw said it reminded them of the glory days of Kal Daniels.
2006-12-19 19:30:34
271.   Greg Brock
Go Bruins. Beat the (cartoony sounding) Bearkats.

Seriously. Bearkats.

2006-12-19 19:31:30
272.   Andrew Shimmin
Repko had one in '05 where he caught it, went head first in to the wall, and held on. I think it was at Dodger Stadium, but don't remember the visiting team. That's what I figured das411 was talking about. It was in all the ads that year because, well, what else was there?
2006-12-19 19:33:26
273.   das411
Well I remember somebody flattening themselves on a wall and then bouncing off of it in...I want to say rightfield. No idea who it was though, damn those jerseys with no names on them!!

I'm sure if it was Werth though the Phila sports reporters have already found it though. Yep. Sure.

Did we get through an entire day without mentioning Brad Radke retiring? I think that means that the designated grizzled veteran on the Twins' staff is now some guy named Johan Santana. Is he any good?

2006-12-19 19:35:22
274.   Bob Timmermann
Werth's catch was actually against Jeromy Burnitz.

Let's let the words of Jason Reid take us down memory lane: July 30, 2004.

Many teams are interested in trading for Jayson Werth, and the Dodgers are not surprised.

The emerging outfielder continued to strengthen his position with a home run and dazzling catch Thursday, leading the Dodgers to a 3- 2 victory over the Colorado Rockies in front of 28,472 at Coors Field.

"Jayson Werth had a huge impact on the game today," Manager Jim Tracy said. "His home run is a difference-maker, and the catch is the difference in the game."

Werth homered in the first inning and slammed into the left- field wall in the sixth to rob Jeromy Burnitz of at least an extra- base hit. Werth's catch started an inning-ending double play that enabled the Dodgers to preserve a 3-2 lead, which they took in the top of the sixth on David Ross' two-run homer against reliever Scott Dohmann (0-1).

The Dodgers overcame a one-for-15 performance with runners in scoring position, Wilson Alvarez delivered a solid five-inning start, four relievers combined for four hitless innings and Eric Gagne was typically dominant in his 30th save in 31 opportunities.

2006-12-19 19:41:39
275.   Vishal
if i remember correctly, it was that spectacular catch in denver which broke one of jayson's ribs, right?
2006-12-19 19:46:01
276.   Bob Timmermann
Sherman, let's set the WABAC machine to September 17, 2004.

But gosh, Mr. Peabody, what will we learn then.

Read Sherman:

Jayson Werth, who played in pain for most of the Dodgers' 7-3 loss to the San Diego Padres on Wednesday night after aggravating a rib injury diving for a fly ball in the first inning, was out of the lineup Thursday.

X-rays and a CT scan were negative, but Werth said it hurt to run and throw.

"There's a movement that those muscles don't like," the outfielder said. "It bites, especially throwing."

Werth originally injured a few ribs July 29 in Denver when he slammed into the outfield wall at Coors Field while making a catch.

2006-12-19 19:49:32
277.   Andrew Shimmin
Are the carbon monoxide detectors in Pauley malfunctioning, or is the entire team drunk?
2006-12-19 19:50:54
278.   trainwreck
I think drunk.
2006-12-19 19:52:39
279.   D4P
Do the UCLA fans around here generally believe that the team is worthy of its #1 ranking...?
2006-12-19 19:53:51
280.   Greg Brock
279
By default, yes. But there are no great teams this year. We'll see about OSU with Oden.
2006-12-19 19:54:53
281.   trainwreck
UCLA plays to the level of their competition and in general have been a second half team so it is hard to say. I think they deserve it as long as they are the lone undefeated team.
2006-12-19 19:54:56
282.   Vishal
okay, so ribs were injured but not broken. do i get partial credit, prof. timmermann?
2006-12-19 19:55:14
283.   trainwreck
When I say lone undefeated, I mean of the elite teams.
2006-12-19 19:55:27
284.   D4P
as they are the lone undefeated team

Oregon is 10-0!

2006-12-19 19:56:42
285.   Bob Timmermann
282
I was going to give you full credit for remembering that much.
2006-12-19 19:56:57
286.   trainwreck
Teams like UNC, Kansas, and Ohio St do not operate as teams well. They have a bunch of one on one stuff and they are so talented it does not matter. UCLA plays as a team much better than those teams.
2006-12-19 19:57:23
287.   trainwreck
Oregon is not elite, sorry.
2006-12-19 19:58:10
288.   Bob Timmermann
Wichita State is undefeated.
2006-12-19 19:59:26
289.   Greg Brock
So is UConn.
2006-12-19 20:00:01
290.   trainwreck
Wichita State will probably not be considered for the top spot. That is what I meant by elite.
2006-12-19 20:00:44
291.   Bob Timmermann
290
I'm not an elitist.
2006-12-19 20:01:32
292.   trainwreck
But the poll voters are.
2006-12-19 20:04:30
293.   Vishal
[288] that's a shocker.

[rimshot]

2006-12-19 20:13:08
294.   trainwreck
Those dang gingers!
2006-12-19 20:15:41
295.   Xeifrank
is it just me or does Kobe tend to take alot of low percentage shots. I know he can probably make them better than any other player, but why the 20 foot fade away jumpers with someone in your face with plenty of time on the shot clock. He's so great at taking the ball to the hoop and either scoring or getting fouled and sometimes both. What's the facination with ridiculous looking fade-aways. I can see it when you are playing nerf hoops. vr, Xei
2006-12-19 20:17:53
296.   Sam DC
295 The Basketball People in DC were appalled when Kobe ripped Arenas for selfish shot selection after his 60 point game last week. "Pot . . . Kettle" they sputtered.
2006-12-19 20:18:11
297.   trainwreck
295
My friend and I used to make jokes about that, because it is certainly true. Some games it seemed he would miss the easy shots and make the hard ones.
2006-12-19 20:18:47
298.   trainwreck
296
Yeah, Kobe should have shut his mouth on that one.
2006-12-19 20:30:20
299.   trainwreck
Amy Grant and Darrell Waltrip hosting a PPV about Christmas. I cannot wait to order that one.
2006-12-19 20:35:05
300.   Greg Brock
Nothing will ever beat "The Star Wars Holiday Special"

Ever.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-12-19 20:35:39
301.   D4P
why the 20 foot fade away jumpers with someone in your face with plenty of time on the shot clock. He's so great at taking the ball to the hoop and either scoring or getting fouled and sometimes both. What's the facination with ridiculous looking fade-aways

I've been saying this for years.

2006-12-19 20:43:00
302.   trainwreck
Okay this game is becoming a real problem.
2006-12-19 20:59:43
303.   Sam DC
Holy guacamole -- the Post reviewer quite liked the new Rocky.
2006-12-19 21:00:57
304.   Greg Brock
Rocky Balboa is sitting at a solid 76% approval at Rotten Tomatoes.

Who knew?

2006-12-19 21:02:10
305.   Andrew Shimmin
303- As have three quarters of all reviewers. I don't buy it. I think this is a baby boomer rouse (like that movie where they have a college reunion, or something, in Atlanta I think, what was that called?); they like it because it tells them pretty lies about themselves, not because it's really good.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/rocky_balboa/

2006-12-19 21:02:56
306.   Sam DC
There's also a new DJ article up at mlb.com, with Gene Orza weighing in and suggesting that there is some there there.
2006-12-19 21:05:43
307.   Andrew Shimmin
Ruse, I meant.
2006-12-19 21:07:44
308.   Andrew Shimmin
And the movie I meant was The Big Chill. I think.
2006-12-19 21:08:32
309.   Greg Brock
305 I think you're knocking "The Big Chill" and I will not stand for that.

It took place in North Carolina, but they all went to Michigan. Awesome flick.

2006-12-19 21:09:52
310.   trainwreck
I do not think any of the Rocky movies are good films. They have some alright entertainment value.
2006-12-19 21:10:06
311.   Jon Weisman
I'm surprised too, but a couple of pretty jaded reviewers out here have also found something in Rocky Balboa. I think perhaps it has the humility that the first one had but that the sequels kept abandoning more and more.

I think the incredibly low expectations might have something to do with it.

2006-12-19 21:10:26
312.   trainwreck
305
Wow, I just assumed you were making a joke about not knowing the title of the Big Chill.
2006-12-19 21:10:54
313.   Greg Brock
I bet Jon liked The Big Chill.
2006-12-19 21:12:05
314.   natepurcell
soooooo, did we get rios yet?
2006-12-19 21:12:33
315.   Bob Timmermann
I can get a job for FSN!

April 1, 1923 - Sam Houston State joins the Texas Intercollegiate Athletic Association (TIAA), its first intercollegiate athletics conference affiliation. During the 1923 season, Sam Houston adopts "Bearkats" as the nickname for its athletic teams. The name comes from a slogan of the time "tough as a Bearkat!" The spelling with a "k" instead of a "c" denotes a mythical creature.

I'm smarter than Lindsay Soto!

2006-12-19 21:13:27
316.   Andrew Shimmin
I have a very specific mental block of the name of that movie. I always think Big Easy, but know that that's wrong. Hooray for Google.
2006-12-19 21:14:54
317.   Dark Horse
Shoot, I seem to have missed the book chat. If we're gonna go off-topic, that's my beat.

I like DeLillo, but tend to find him way more interesting on a sentence and paragraph level than for the duration of a novel. Americana, Great Jones Street, White Noise, The Names, all filled with fabulous things and none wholly satisfying novels. Underworld has flashes, but it's a big fat mess and ultimately spelled the beginning of the end of him, for me.

Roth's hit or miss, but the strength and variety of his best work suggests he might sit right there with, oh, James, Faulkner and uh...not very many other people atop the American canon. "The Counterlife," "Sabbath's Theater," "The Human Stain," "American Pastoral." Huge, that guy's best books are. I've never read 'Great American Novel,' nor 'Portnoy' (I wouldn't say what I did with that book was "read" it, exactly) so can't comment, but the ones I just mentioned--at least--are outstanding.

2006-12-19 21:15:59
318.   Jon Weisman
313 - I liked it. It didn't change my life or anything.
2006-12-19 21:18:53
319.   Greg Brock
318 I can't think of any movies that changed my life.

Well, the Dark Crystal. And B.A.P.S.

2006-12-19 21:32:07
320.   Marty
I really disliked The Big Chill, but I dislike Kasdan movies in general. Other than Body Heat.
2006-12-19 21:32:17
321.   D4P
One movie that may change my life is "The Neverending Story," but I can't say for sure because I'm not done watching it yet.
2006-12-19 21:34:19
322.   trainwreck
Wow, Lindsay Soto is claiming no one knows why Sam Houston spells Bearkat with a k.

She needs to meet Mr. Timmermann.

2006-12-19 21:35:28
323.   Bob Timmermann
Lindsay needs to read the Sam Houston State website.
2006-12-19 21:36:50
324.   Marty
So I posted a comment over at Inside the Dodgers, but I didn't end it with:

"GO NED!!!!"
"GO DODGERS!!!!"

Will I be banned?

2006-12-19 21:37:15
325.   Jon Weisman
319 - I started a new thread at Screen Jam, since I have the opportunity to migrate this film thread before people complain.
2006-12-19 21:37:59
326.   Jon Weisman
322 - Bob's been quoted in Morning Briefing before. He should get this one in there too.
2006-12-19 21:39:04
327.   trainwreck
323
She interviewed their AD and he did not know either. So clearly many people need to check Sam Houston's website.
2006-12-19 21:44:53
328.   El Lay Dave
244 Man, I'm missing out on a bunch of NE L.A. day! In addition to attending Eagle Rock High School, I've lived in Mt. Washington, attended church in Cypress Park, scoured the Arroyo Seco for range balls, watch movies in the old Highland Theater, shopped at Ivar's and Pillar's (do I remember those names right?), eaten at The Bucket, Julio's Itzza Pizza and Van deKamp's, and seen the inside of the old Northeast Division back when it was operating.

If I go around the corner from the Highland Perk, will I find the Garvanza Bean?

2006-12-19 21:48:09
329.   El Lay Dave
270 Or as we used to refer to him, Kal "4(+2)e16" Daniels.
2006-12-19 21:50:39
330.   Jon Weisman
329 - :)
2006-12-19 21:59:31
331.   El Lay Dave
322 Lindsay Soto needs to be gift-wrapped under my tree and to meet under the mistletoe on Christmas morning.
2006-12-19 22:00:30
332.   Daniel Zappala
Seeing as how the original topic of this thread concerned the weather ... boy will I be glad to be in LA for once this Christmas. I was out at the library tonight and it was 13 degrees on my way back to the car, with a low of 5 expected tonight. A nice warm Christmas is exactly what I want.
2006-12-19 22:20:30
333.   Bob Timmermann
331
You are more likely to encounter a Bearkat.
2006-12-19 22:55:44
334.   Andrew Shimmin
If you use Firefox and have the Context Search extension installed (and you should; it's awesome), don't update to version 2.0.0.1. It breaks the context searching. Maybe other stuff, too.
2006-12-19 23:14:42
335.   Vishal
what's context search?
2006-12-19 23:25:41
336.   Icaros
I didn't even realize Ryan Klesko was a free agent. I'd much rather have him for one-year, $1.75 million than four-years-older Gonzo for five extra million.

I dislike being outwitted by the Giants.

Career:
Klesko .280/.372/.507
Gonzo .284/.368/.484

2006-12-19 23:57:58
337.   Bill Crain
334 Context Search Version 0.4.1, released on Nov 19, 2006, runs on Firefox 2.x.x. ConQuery ran on 1.5. Is this the add-on you're talking about? Or is there something even cooler?
2006-12-20 00:24:58
338.   Andrew Shimmin
337- It says it will run. It installs. It works once per session. Then it stops. I uninstalled 2.0.0.1 and re-installed 2.0 and now it works perfectly, again. Maybe it's just me (didn't see anything at the forum, except a general warning about 2.0.0.1 screwing with the context menu) and it's a false alarm, but it doesn't seem like it.

335- Instead of copy and pasting in to the search bar at the top, you can block, say, Kelsko in 336, right click, and then, from the context menu, open a new tab with the Baseball Prospectus search page (or any other search engine you've got in your search bar), preinstructed to look for Klesko. I use it constantly, here, especially.

2006-12-20 00:40:03
339.   berkowit28
338
You've been able to do almost exactly that in Safari, the browser in Mac OS 10.4 Tiger, for at least a year and a half - maybe longer if it goes back to 10.3 Panther , which I forget.

Actually you get a choice of "Search in Google" or "Search in Spotlight" which searches your computer. If you hold down the command (Apple) key, it opens in a new tab.

2006-12-20 01:48:46
340.   Uncle Miltie
333- a manbearkat? Better tell Al Gore
2006-12-20 06:04:40
341.   das411
340 - Aaaaand back to the weather discussion! Well played Miltie :)

8am exams are very not-cool. Although I did get to use the LA Angels as an answer in a question about whether MLB owners can discriminate against Hispanic players...

2006-12-20 12:09:55
342.   Andrew Shimmin
Update on my little problem: wasn't the extension, it was the theme. Ifox Smooth doesn't play well with the upgrade. False alarm.

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