Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Help
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Search
Google Search
Web
Toaster
Dodger Thoughts
Archives

2009
02  01 

2008
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2007
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2006
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2005
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2004
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2003
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2002
09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Ca Va?
2006-06-07 16:40
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

An MRI on Eric Gagne revealed no damage, according to Inside the Dodgers. With an off day Thursday, Gagne will not pitch again at least until the team arrives in Colorado on Friday. The Dodgers plan to reevaluate him that day. I wouldn't call this an entirely clean bill of health.

Andre Ethier and Willy Aybar draw the bench today, as the Dodgers tease but continue to hold back their five-rookie lineup. J.D. Drew is also sitting, with Matt Kemp batting fourth and Joel Guzman fifth. Jose Cruz, Jr., whose platoon differentials favor him against lefties, starts against Tom Glavine.

* * *

Pitches seen by Guzman:

June 1
Three vs. Clay Condrey: strike (swinging), ball, 5-4-3 DP

June 2
One vs. Ryan Madson: groundout to short
Four vs. Ryan Madson: ball, ball, ball, ball
Two vs. Ryan Madson: ball, single to center
Four vs. Rheal Cormier: strike (looking), ball, foul, groundout to second
Two vs. Tom Gordon: ball, 6-4-3 DP

June 3
One vs. Eude Brito: infield single
Two vs. Eude Brito: strike (looking), flyout to right
One vs. Clay Condrey: groundout to second
Four vs. Clay Condrey: ball, ball, ball, ball

June 4
Four vs. Brett Myers: ball, strike (swinging), foul, strike (swinging)
Four vs. Brett Myers: strike (looking), foul, foul, pop-fly single
One vs. Brett Myers: lineout to left
Four vs. Tom Gordon: foul, strike (looking), foul, popout

Guzman hasn't gone deep in any at-bats, but he is taking pitches here and there. In 14 plate appearances, he has taken the first pitch in eight of them. Although he hasn't always had a good swing, he has swung and missed only three of 37 pitches he has seen so far.

One thing I've noticed is that he has tried to go to right field more than I would have expected.

* * *

Tonight's Game

Comments (475)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-07 16:51:56
1.   underdog
As I said below, it'll be interesting to see if Glavine throws Kemp a single fastball - I hope he spaces out and does at some point, but...

Not super hopeful about Guzman vs. Glavine, but at the worst, it'll be a good learning experience. I wish them buena suerte.

2006-06-07 16:53:56
2.   D4P
At this point, not super hopeful about Guzman vs. Anyone.
2006-06-07 16:54:51
3.   Andrew Shimmin
Any doctors around these parts? I remember Gagne having MRIs before getting his elbow cut in to, last year, without its showing that the problem was just a screwy nerve. Are MRIs any good at picking up ligament problems? Is it odd that Gagne can feel something wrong with the elbow, when they took out the nerve? Or was it some other nerve that was removed?
2006-06-07 17:02:25
4.   Linkmeister
Glavine's fastball isn't very fast anymore, so I doubt he'll throw it to anyone except as a teaser.

That said, I really enjoy watching Maddux and Glavine pitch, even against the Dodgers. Old pros, both of them. So I'm annoyed (again) that Prime Ticket isn't showing this game.

2006-06-07 17:12:10
5.   JoeyP
I'd rather have Saenz in at 3rd, than Guzman.
Aybar instead of Lucille at 2nd.

Other than that its not bad.

2006-06-07 17:14:07
6.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think Little trusts Saenz's defense at 3rd for extended periods and may be saving him tonight to be the designated Billy Wagner pinch hitter.
2006-06-07 17:15:56
7.   gpellamjr
I just can not understand why Ethier is not playing. I thought I've heard that Ethier is better against lefties. Besides that, Glavine is by no means overpowering and Ethier is very patient. I remember Brian McRae used to bat left handed against Glavine.
2006-06-07 17:17:04
8.   JoeyP
Thats sort of a funny way to put it extended periods..

I guess for Saenz those extended periods mean for than 3 innings. Couldnt Nomar play 3rd with Saenz at 1st for one nite? Tonite is a pretty big game I think.

2006-06-07 17:17:43
9.   Uncle Miltie
Should anybody trust Saenz's defense at any position. The guy is a DH who is forced to play in the field because he's in the NL.

I don't have a problem with the lineup at all. Lucille is hitting well, Wilber could probably use a break, and he hasn't hit very well against LHP. My only question is why not switch Lofton and Cruz in the lineup. Cruz is a much more patient hitter and he gets on base more.

2006-06-07 17:19:05
10.   sanchez101
Joe Sheehan has a nice article today where he explains how the Yankees are winning despite having only one decent starting pitcher and terrance long on the roster: OBP. The Yanks have a .375 OBP wich is one of the best since 1950. His article contains a list of the best team OBP's since 1969, only 22 teams have had a OBP above .360 since then, and only 4 NL teams have topped that mark.

The Dodger's OBP right now: .360. Here are the NL teams that have had a better OBP since 1969:

'99 Mets - .363
'00 Giants - .362
'00 Rockies - .362
'00 Astros - .361

Im not sure we realize just how good the Dodger offense has been so far this year, at least I didnt.

2006-06-07 17:20:51
11.   sanchez101
9. I agree, Saenz should only be playing 3rd when the team really needs his offense AND Nomar's in the lineup. And a flyball pitcher is on the mound.
2006-06-07 17:21:26
12.   Jon Weisman
7 - Where did you hear Ethier was better against lefties? I've never heard that.

I can't access the site at work, but you can get minor league splits here.

http://www.brewcrewball.com/special/LasPCL

In the majors, it's too small a sample to matter, but he's been better against righties so far.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=6481

2006-06-07 17:21:50
13.   JoeyP
Miltie's right about Aybar and Ethier.

Aybar is 1-11 vs LHP this year.
Ethier is 3-11 vs LHP this year.

Both dont have much experience, but I guess tonite isnt a time to experiment.

I still think an opportunity is lost by not playing Saenz vs a tough LHP.

2006-06-07 17:23:04
14.   JoeyP
11. By those parameters I think tonite qualifies. They're facing the best LHP in the NL.
2006-06-07 17:26:13
15.   gpellamjr
12 Hmm... you know, I can't say. I thought someone said it on the list, but it's not the first time I've spread lies on this site.
2006-06-07 17:26:56
16.   gpellamjr
15 "on the list..." meant, on this site. Not the first time I've babbled incoherently on this site.
2006-06-07 17:28:22
17.   Andrew Shimmin
12- Those splits are only this year's, but, Ethier's line is:

67AB RHP:.358/.443/.537
19AB LHP:.316/.458/.368

2006-06-07 17:30:52
18.   bigcpa
Has anyone heard an explanation for Glavine's resurgence? New pitch? HGH? His K/9 is very suspicious.

2001 4.8
2002 5.1
2003 4.0
2004 4.6
2005 4.5
2006 7.1

2006-06-07 17:33:53
19.   Andrew Shimmin
17 update- Also, Ethier was hit twice batting against LHP, so that skews his tiny sample, which would probably account for his OBP's being higher against LHP.
2006-06-07 17:34:28
20.   Bob Timmermann
Guzman has only faced pitchers with 5, 6, of 7 letters in their last names. I want to see if he will face Chad Bradford or Jose Feliciano to see how he does against a long man.
2006-06-07 17:38:16
21.   Andrew Shimmin
18- Lo Duca is willing batters to strike out. Duh.
2006-06-07 17:40:26
22.   Bob Timmermann
From Paul Konerko:

"We've got some professional hitters -- (Rob) Mackowiak, Cintron, (Ross) Gload"

So is a professional hitter a good hitter who can't field or just a guy who really isn't very good at all?

2006-06-07 17:40:39
23.   overkill94
18 I don't think they're using QuesTec much anymore (if at all) and I'm pretty sure that ruined his mojo for a little while. I doubt he'll end up over more than 6.5 K/9 for the year though.
2006-06-07 17:47:03
24.   Jon Weisman
22 - Maybe only you will get this, but I can't think of "Clay Condrey" without thinking of - and I have no idea how to spell it - "giko condri," which Homer Simpson tried to explain to the workers at the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant (in the speech that his assistant, Karl, prepared for him after Homer got hair).
2006-06-07 17:51:01
25.   Bob Timmermann
It was "jiko kanri"

Which is a real Japanese phrase.

http://tinyurl.com/moeke

2006-06-07 17:54:35
26.   Linkmeister
I think he's in the 300-win stretch drive, and I'd like to see him get it.
2006-06-07 17:57:11
27.   Bob Timmermann
I have a thread about Jason Grimsley up on the Griddle, but I noticed this paragraph in the AP article about him:

"The [Arizona] Republic reported that Latino players were cited by Grimsley in the court documents as a major source of amphetamines, as were major leaguers on California teams who could easily travel to Mexico to buy the drugs."

2006-06-07 17:58:15
28.   Underbruin
24/25 - That episode was on in syndication recently, wasn't it?
2006-06-07 17:59:10
29.   blutomania
Griddle?

Where can I learn to do cool things like link to previous posts?

2006-06-07 18:00:16
30.   sanchez101
I cant think of a single significant former Dodger that's been even vaugely associated with steroids, or at least I cant think of one right now. Quite frankly, Im a little dissapointed.
2006-06-07 18:00:51
31.   Jon Weisman
25 - I never doubted it was real. I always assume Clay Condrey is a practitioner.
2006-06-07 18:01:54
32.   Bob Timmermann
30

Gary Sheffield says hello.

2006-06-07 18:02:27
33.   Jon Weisman
28 - I have no idea, but it's burned into my brain.

I really don't want this thread to turn into a favorite Simpsons episodes thread, because those go on forever, ad nauseum. But my favorite two episodes of the show are that one and the one where Dustin Hoffman gives Lisa the note that says, "I am Lisa Simpson."

2006-06-07 18:02:58
34.   Bob Timmermann
29

The Griddle is another blog. It's on the sidebar.

You link to previous posts by enclosing the post number in brackets.

2006-06-07 18:04:23
35.   sanchez101
32. thanks, I knew i was forgetting someone. im okay with thinking he mightve used steriods, i didnt like him anyway.
2006-06-07 18:04:29
36.   Uncle Miltie
30- Gary Sheffield...

So has anyone heard any recent news on Nick Akins and Alex White. The only thing I've read is this little blurb from the LA Times:

A late-round pick with potential was right-handed pitcher Alex White, who has signed a letter of intent to play at North Carolina, yet was picked by the Dodgers in the 14th round.

"He's a long shot to sign," Logan White said. "It was worth the risk where we got him."

Also, am I the only person who laughed at this line from Steve Henson's article this morning

"Kent's veteran leadership and consistent bat will be welcomed back."

2006-06-07 18:11:20
37.   Bob Timmermann
Did Nick Akins play for L.A. High this year? MaxPreps doesn't have any stats for him on its site and they do list all the other players it looks like.
2006-06-07 18:12:15
38.   Jon Weisman
37 - According to the BA article in my previous post, he was not eligible this year because of all his transfering.
2006-06-07 18:13:15
39.   D4P
Also, am I the only person who laughed at this line from Steve Henson's article this morning

"Kent's veteran leadership and consistent bat will be welcomed back."

Only because I hadn't read it yet...

2006-06-07 18:13:52
40.   Uncle Miltie
No, he didn't even play high school baseball this year.
Akins transferred back to Los Angeles High, his home school, for his senior year. While he was allowed to play volleyball and run track, however, he was not allowed to play on the baseball team despite a number of hearings and a lengthy appeals process. "Maybe the fact he transferred out and then transferred back had something to do with it, raised some red flags," LaCour said.

That's why he went under the radar. If we sign him, I think he may prove to be one of the best picks in the draft period.

2006-06-07 18:23:14
41.   Jon Weisman
The Akins story is tailor-made for a Plaschke column if he signs and starts to move up.
2006-06-07 18:25:24
42.   Greg Brock
41-He's already started writing it...Bet the farm on that one. The day after he signs, we'll be blessed with his one sentence paragraph wisdom.
2006-06-07 18:26:15
43.   KAYVMON
11 and 14. I think the reason Saenz is on the bench is because there is a responsiblity to play Guzman. Since JTD is still considered developing, he needs to play at least a couple times a week while he is up. But I agree in a hypothetical sense. If tonight was a playoff game, Saenz should be starting, regardless of his below average defense.
2006-06-07 18:27:48
44.   KAYVMON
Et ca va bien Jon. Merci.
2006-06-07 18:28:56
45.   thinkblue88
41. Eww...Plaschke
2006-06-07 18:30:39
46.   Underbruin
43 - "If tonight was a playoff game, Saenz should be starting, regardless of his below average defense."

Joe Morgan would disagree. =P

2006-06-07 18:32:35
47.   Steve
The injury conversion chart is not optimistic about Gagne.
2006-06-07 18:34:06
48.   Jon Weisman
47 - Do I need to say I'm not optimistic about Gagne, or have I made that a given at this point?
2006-06-07 18:34:51
49.   Sam DC
Let it not be said that this -- "Logan's Online Run" -- went unchuckled.

Re the Hochevar stuff, there's a description of the quotes from Boras, Hoch, and the other agent on XM this morning and some comments from a random guy at http://www.thenats.blogspot.com/.

2006-06-07 18:41:35
50.   Fallout
41 And, Plaschke's column will be an interesting one too.
48 a given.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-07 18:42:15
51.   Greg Brock
With respect to the Hochevar thing, I couldn't be more pleased with the way things turned out. He'll get his money, the Dodgers got a pick, and the Royals got a future three starter. I've watched Hochevar forever, and color me unimpressed. Wow, a righthanded college pitcher who throws 94. Tough to get those, and so few of them end up needing Tommy John surgery from the college stress. Really, very few at all. Taking a year off pitching shouldn't affect his arm either. Not at all.
2006-06-07 18:44:21
52.   sanchez101
48. its a given. i have given up on him at this point. He's on the same list the cubs fans have put Prior and Wood on. Im just hoping that he opts out of his contract and we dont have to go through this anymore. I think next year is the year of the bull anyway.
2006-06-07 18:44:47
53.   Andrew Shimmin
51- No compensation pick for unsigned sandwich picks. If Hochevar had been signed before the draft, would the Dodgers still have gotten Kershaw?
2006-06-07 18:44:52
54.   CanuckDodger
33 -- Jon, I guess you would disagree with me, but Lisa-centric Simpsons episodes, well, suck.
2006-06-07 18:46:44
55.   Sam DC
Gack -- Top 8, Nationals up 3-2, no outs, runners at 1st and 2d, Nick Johnson directed to sac bunt. Bat now in the hands of Marlon Byrd (after the bunt and IBB to Zimmerman).
2006-06-07 18:46:49
56.   Greg Brock
You're right about the pick, Andrew. Brain cramp for a second. But at least they saved the money needed to sign him. Now they can lock up Baez on a three year extension.
2006-06-07 18:48:37
57.   Greg Brock
54- The "Spellympics" episode, with George Plimpton and the Ribwich is top 20 all time. "AND A HOT PLATE!"
2006-06-07 18:49:32
58.   Sam DC
OF D. Ward pinch hits for Byrd in ATL.
2006-06-07 18:49:36
59.   ToyCannon
Count me in the group that is not optimistic about Gagne.

Even though I seem to be the biggest booster of Lofton on this site I would liked to have seen a lineup tonight of Cruz/Kemp/Guzman in the outfield with Saenz at 3b. Just my 2 cents. JD sure seems to be sitting alot more then he was, is that my imagination or is his shoulder bothering him more now then it was? Not that he's been particulary productive lately so maybe were not missing much.

30
My memory says that Sheffield, Gagne, and Beltre were all part of serious steroid speculation.

2006-06-07 18:51:43
60.   bhsportsguy
54 - Of all the characters, episodes related to Marge are the least interesting.

Of the non-family members, any episode that features Krusty is always good for a chuckle, "Krusty gets Kancelled" is a classic.

2006-06-07 18:52:45
61.   Sam DC
Ward doubles in two runs.
2006-06-07 18:52:49
62.   sanchez101
59. Sheffield was part of serious steroid speculation. Gagne and Beltre were speculation on the part of people that enjoy mindless, baseless acusations.
2006-06-07 18:54:05
63.   Greg Brock
If I'm going "Non-Family" episodes, I'll take a Burns episode every time. From the political run to Dangerfield as his son, every one is great. Plus, we get the occasional "Victrola" reference, and the "23 Skidoo" bomb.
2006-06-07 18:54:16
64.   Andrew Shimmin
What a bunch of cartoon sexists. The only bad Simpsons' episodes are the recent ones.
2006-06-07 18:54:35
65.   wcastle
Not sure Grady needs to stack the line-up with right-handed hitters. Throughout Glavine's long career, he's actually been slightly more effective against righties (.685 OPS) than lefties (.688 OPS).
2006-06-07 18:54:59
66.   PadreJeremy
The best Simpsons episode ever is when Homer tries to give up Beer. I cant say Ive seen that many episodes, but that is classic in the same way the Chappelle Rick James sketch is.

I am really a big Gagne fan, but this elbow thing is getting annoying. The Dodgers have surprised me but without a lights out closer, their season is not going to turn out the way they want.

I think a trade for a closer is coming.

2006-06-07 18:55:52
67.   Marty
54 How can you say that?

"Lisa! Get away from that jazz man!"

I have a friend who is quite good at impressions. He can demonstrate how almost any famous voice can evolve into Krusty the Klown.

2006-06-07 18:56:30
68.   Sam DC
Now, with bases loaded and a three run lead in the top of the eighth, Frank Robinson is having his relief pitcher Gary Majewski bat.

That is just surreal.

2006-06-07 18:56:45
69.   SCRocks
54.

Speaking of Simpsons episodes. I found this website awhile back and thought I would share.

http://www.snpp.com/

Also, I think this "Lisa centric" episode is rather funny.

http://www.snpp.com/episodes/5F05

cr

2006-06-07 18:59:09
70.   confucius
Does anyone know the translation of the line Vin Scully says when Gagne comes in the game? I know it is something like good evening or whatever. I always wonder what it literally is.
2006-06-07 19:00:58
71.   Bob Timmermann
The Tigers have scored the tying run against the White Sox on a ....

double error!

2006-06-07 19:01:44
72.   Greg Brock
I believe the Scully line translates to "Aw, look at that little Angel in her Easter Bonnet...Bless her heart." Either that, or "Did you know Walter O'Malley wanted to build, you guessed it, a geodesic dome."
2006-06-07 19:02:25
73.   confucius
I hate to be pessimistic, but I just do not see Odalis getting through 5 innings tonight.
2006-06-07 19:04:17
74.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Vin really says

"Stupid Fordham Jesuit professors made me take three years of French, man, did I hate those classes!"

2006-06-07 19:04:29
75.   Marty
For some reason the game is on KCAL 9 in L.A. tonight.
2006-06-07 19:04:41
76.   Underbruin
Hey, Sam - that Nats Blog is quite good.

Also, it had an interesting link to the site HitTracker (http://www.hittrackeronline.com/), which records the distance for every home run, adjusted for altitude, atmospheric conditions, etc.

The longest HR by a Dodger this year? Matt Kemp's June 2nd blast against Ryan Madson (who, incidentally, gave up the first Dodger homer of the year), traveling 448 ft in 'true distance.'

The longest HR, uncorrected for various effects? 'Dearly departed' Cody Ross's home run in the 6th inning of the April 13th game when he went crazy. It traveled 432 ft of 'standard' distance (Kemp's home run went 429 feet of standard distance).

2006-06-07 19:05:30
77.   bigcpa
Why does Vinny think it's appropriate to start a sentence with "And for..."? Example- "And for Kemp, his 4th homer of the year." Drives me nuts!
2006-06-07 19:05:33
78.   bhsportsguy
The Jacksonville Suns clinched the first half championship of their division in the Southern League. They did it by winning 16 out of their last 17 games, they won 8 straight, lost one, and are now currently on another 8 game winning streak.

So the winning tradition continues this time with LaRoche and Abreu (Kemp was doing pretty well there too until he came up here)leading the way and a pitching staff not filled with many known prospects outside of Orenduff but yet is among the best in the league.

2006-06-07 19:05:51
79.   Marty
I think Vin is saying "I could hear that pop from up here Mr. Gagne."
2006-06-07 19:06:46
80.   Andrew Shimmin
Vin says: Bienvenue Monsieur Gagne.

It means: Welcome, Mr. Gagne.

2006-06-07 19:07:17
81.   Steve
I think a trade for a closer is coming.

We tried that already.

2006-06-07 19:07:56
82.   bhsportsguy
77 - You can complain about Steiner, Monday, A Martinez, Jerry Reuss and Psycho Lyons but never think that you can utter anything but thanks to Vinny, Mr. Scully to you.
2006-06-07 19:08:59
83.   Fallout
59 ToyCannon
JD sure seems to be sitting alot more then he was, is that my imagination or is his shoulder bothering him more now then it was?

I would say one if not all of his recent surgeries could be bothering him from time to time. Didn't he have a shoulder, knee and a wrist?

2006-06-07 19:11:16
84.   Steve
Well, at least we purported to try it. Ned Colletti seemed to believe it in any event.
2006-06-07 19:12:41
85.   Marty
Maybe Tampa Bay has more closers they don't need.
2006-06-07 19:13:30
86.   sanchez101
nothing makes me happier than seeing chris woodward leadoff for the opposing team
2006-06-07 19:14:03
87.   BruceR
49 [showing his age] Sam, chuckles here as well. Then I thought of Farrah Fawcett. Chuckles became sighs.

72 & 74 LOL

2006-06-07 19:14:18
88.   Bob Timmermann
Little was advised by Bobby Cox to rest Drew on the day before off days.
2006-06-07 19:14:47
89.   bhsportsguy
83 Consider this the Drew Holiday plan, anytime there is an off day, Grady will take the opportunity to rest Drew so he will have two full days off, the way schedule is set up in June, I would predict a Drew holiday in Oakland on June 18th and in Minnesota on June 28.
2006-06-07 19:16:16
90.   bhsportsguy
Okay, how does Odalis look, is he getting the corners so far?
2006-06-07 19:16:35
91.   Greg Brock
82- Amen. If you wanna bash a legendary LA sportscaster, trample on Chick Hearn's corpse. Yup, I said it.
2006-06-07 19:17:54
92.   JT Dutch
90 -- He got the corner and then some when he struck out Woodward.
2006-06-07 19:19:15
93.   Steve
85 -- That can be counted on.
2006-06-07 19:19:42
94.   Bob Timmermann
We all know that Vin is just keeping the seat warm until the Dodgers can get Ted Leitner out from under his Padres contract.

As well as Terry Smith from his Angels deal.

I think the two men would make an interesting pair.

2006-06-07 19:20:02
95.   JT Dutch
There goes Perez, not minding his runners again.
2006-06-07 19:21:18
96.   gpellamjr
91 I spit on you. I only regret refusing to follow the Lakers after Phil Jackson was signed, becuase I missed Chick's last years.

How is Kemp's arm? Do we think he'll end up being a RF?

2006-06-07 19:21:20
97.   Andrew Shimmin
Guzman didn't get to third, during the double steal. May not have been a play snyway, but still.
2006-06-07 19:22:51
98.   ddger
Looks like a long evening for us and short outing for Perez.
2006-06-07 19:22:53
99.   Fallout
89 bhsportsguy

Because of Bob's 88comment I figured that the Drew holidays would be Atlanta and Atlanta.

2006-06-07 19:23:09
100.   gpellamjr
Maybe we should have Lofton pitch. I love that guy!
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-07 19:23:28
101.   JT Dutch
You know -- the Dodgers have a pretty impressive offense; all they really need is a few pitchers that won't lose the game for them. Perez has been an uninspired mess since the end of the 2004 season and it is time to let the guy go.
2006-06-07 19:23:41
102.   ddger
Now does Perez stay in the rotation after this outing?
2006-06-07 19:24:10
103.   sanchez101
91. wow, classy
2006-06-07 19:24:49
104.   ddger
Grady should have started warming up someone as soon as Perez started pitching.
2006-06-07 19:25:47
105.   ddger
Mercifully, we get out of that inning with ONLY 4 runs given up.
2006-06-07 19:26:05
106.   Sam DC
Inning Endy.
2006-06-07 19:26:40
107.   sanchez101
hey guys, look at the bright side, Billingsley's right around the corner!
2006-06-07 19:27:28
108.   Bob Timmermann
But there were two outs and nobody and then four runs and the runs were driven in by Methuselah, the Moustache, and a kid.
2006-06-07 19:28:23
109.   Steve
Reg, it's over. Come to the dark side.
2006-06-07 19:28:38
110.   JT Dutch
Well, that's a good sign.
2006-06-07 19:28:44
111.   sanchez101
Raffy!
2006-06-07 19:28:55
112.   xaphor
There goes any chance of a first inning rally.
2006-06-07 19:29:06
113.   ddger
Are we in for a high scoring game tonight?

Perez threw 23 pitches in the first inning, 21 for strikes. The Mets couldn't wait to start hitting against Perez.

2006-06-07 19:29:31
114.   Uncle Miltie
Why do we give guys like Seo so much leeway, but not a guy like Perez who has proven to be a pretty decent starter in his tenure with the Dodgers? This talk of taking him out of the rotation after his first start back is ridiculous. People just seem to hate him for no reason, even when he was producing.
2006-06-07 19:29:42
115.   bhsportsguy
So is the ball carrying well tonight or what?
2006-06-07 19:31:21
116.   bhsportsguy
When Odalis is pitching well, he gets a lot of ground balls but I think his lack of concern of base runners is really becoming a problem.
2006-06-07 19:33:01
117.   ddger
114

Could Perez making about 25 times more than Seo have anything to do with it?

2006-06-07 19:33:10
118.   Steve
Not to mention his lack of an 80 mph fastball or any sort of recognizable break in his off speed pitches.
2006-06-07 19:33:49
119.   Steve
Why do we give guys like Seo so much leeway

To whom are you referring?

2006-06-07 19:33:54
120.   Gen3Blue
Nice way to begin a game.
It looks like it will be a real Shiloh Pitt.
It may be early to bed on the East Coast(that may be a good thing about being a fan here, and there aren't many. With our pitching, the second inning isn't to early to go to bed).
2006-06-07 19:34:30
121.   s choir
Is anyone else having problems with MLB audio?

I need to move back to LA.

2006-06-07 19:36:13
122.   BruceR
94 Gee, maybe they can do some LAX games together. Even then, the cringe factor is extremely high.

Jon, seems like that's the most perverse thing I've seen on this site since I started reading here. As much as we all love and appreciate Bob, he really should get a week banishment for even conceptualizing such a thought as Leitner following Vin.

2006-06-07 19:36:55
123.   JT Dutch
114 -- I wouldn't mind leaving the guy in the rotation if he were trying out there. I wouldn't mind it if he showed at least a modicum of focus. Perez has had exactly two good seasons in his career, and has been awful since the last month of 2004. At what time do you give up the ghost?? How many games are you going to let this unmotivated deadweight cost you?

And just as I say this, the guy walks the pitcher. Par for the course.

2006-06-07 19:37:33
124.   bhsportsguy
If Glavine steals a base, then Grady should just take him out right there.
2006-06-07 19:37:37
125.   Fallout
119 Steve

guys

2006-06-07 19:38:03
126.   Andrew Shimmin
Have no fear, Seo is up in the pen!
2006-06-07 19:38:54
127.   sanchez101
ok, this is just sad.
2006-06-07 19:42:32
128.   Uncle Miltie
117- how about Perez's career numbers. He's a slightly above pitcher. Tomko is a worse pitcher who gives up a ton of home runs, but some people seemed to be pleased with that signing. I don't really care about a players salary, I care about their production and Perez has proven in the past that he can be a pretty productive pitcher. It's not like he's a washed up veteran, he's only 29 years old.
2006-06-07 19:42:47
129.   Greg Brock
Well, I guess showcasing Odizzy for Minaya worked out really well.
2006-06-07 19:43:32
130.   Vishal
vinny has the tendency to speak in phrases with a lot of gerunds rather than using complete sentences. it flows better that way, i think.
2006-06-07 19:44:45
131.   Bob Timmermann
Vin was thrown off there for a second. No doubt because he sensed that his name was appearing alongside Ted Leitner's.
2006-06-07 19:46:14
132.   Daniel Zappala
How about we just swap Billingsley and Perez? Let him work it out in the minors.
2006-06-07 19:49:22
133.   bhsportsguy
Important for Martin to get the run in, let's see how he does.
2006-06-07 19:49:42
134.   Gen3Blue
128 Unc, I truly like you, but your one of the true contrarians.
2006-06-07 19:50:53
135.   Steve
Hit for Perez!
2006-06-07 19:50:55
136.   bhsportsguy
133 Does Odalis bunt here or should he be batting at all?
2006-06-07 19:50:59
137.   Bob Timmermann
Rich Aurilia, needing a triple for the cycle, grounded out in what should be his last at bat in Cincinnati.
2006-06-07 19:51:45
138.   Fallout
128 Uncle Miltie
he's only 29 years old

True. But, a lot of players lose their ability not because of age but lingering injuries. For some reason Perez has lost a lot off his FB.

2006-06-07 19:52:24
139.   JT Dutch
I can't believe there wasn't a hitter for Perez. I didn't think Grittle was the "what the hell, I'll give up on the game" type.
2006-06-07 19:52:28
140.   Bob Timmermann
Bunting, along as it didn't lead to a DP, was acceptable in my opinion. And Odalis was less likely to hit into a DP bunting than swinging away.
2006-06-07 19:52:50
141.   sanchez101
RAFFY! RAFFY! RAFFY!
take that Steve!
2006-06-07 19:52:52
142.   s choir
132

Can OP even be sent to the minors? Bob, do you know the answer to this?

2006-06-07 19:52:55
143.   Disabled List
Perez can't even bunt well.
2006-06-07 19:53:01
144.   Uncle Miltie
FOOKIE MONSTER DOES IT AGAIN!
2006-06-07 19:53:03
145.   JT Dutch
RAFAEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOMER NUMERO DOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2006-06-07 19:53:07
146.   Andrew Shimmin
Fur-kle to Steve: Hi.
2006-06-07 19:53:14
147.   Steve
In some sense it's very frustrating to have a manager that actually does a few things right, because it tempers the outrage when he lays a tremendous egg like that one.
2006-06-07 19:53:17
148.   Bob Timmermann
140

The force play bunt you see, set up the game-tying home run.

2006-06-07 19:53:31
149.   Nuke
Tommy, who's your daddy?
2006-06-07 19:53:34
150.   D4P
Fur-kel? Is that you?
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-06-07 19:53:45
151.   s choir
Cool, my MLB audio kicked in just in time for Furcal's homer!
2006-06-07 19:53:46
152.   bhsportsguy
I guess no bunt needed tonight, okay now bring in Seo for Odalis.
2006-06-07 19:53:51
153.   Disabled List
Rafael Furcal can hit for power? Who knew?
2006-06-07 19:53:56
154.   KAYVMON
i love this game!
2006-06-07 19:54:18
155.   Steve
It's Fur-k*el*
2006-06-07 19:54:42
156.   Bob Timmermann
142

I think Perez has only been optioned to the minors twice, but I don't know if he has too much service time to get a minor league assignment anyway without his permission.

2006-06-07 19:55:34
157.   bhsportsguy
Glavine is throwing a lot of pitches this inning and not too many for strikes.
2006-06-07 19:55:35
158.   Bob Timmermann
Glavine has been Odalised! It's like a Mobius strip!
2006-06-07 19:56:06
159.   sanchez101
dont you guys see that Furcal's homerun was the worst thing to happen, it only ties the game. it snuffed the rally, we need the lead!
2006-06-07 19:56:31
160.   Vishal
i'd be a little more relieved if i wasn't so concerned that perez is going to give those runs right back.
2006-06-07 19:56:38
161.   Daniel Zappala
I can't believe Perez, in his first start since being reinstated, is pitching this poorly on a night he gets 5 runs off Glavine. Maybe he is pressing since he knows it is a big game for him? Or maybe he is just washed up?
2006-06-07 19:57:17
162.   bhsportsguy
156 Outside of the rookies, Repko is probably the only one who can be optioned to AAA.
2006-06-07 19:57:54
163.   Daniel Zappala
156 The worst we could do is lose him on waivers? I take it we still pay his salary in that case?
2006-06-07 19:57:59
164.   Andrew Shimmin
155- Rats. I knew that.

156- Wouldn't Odalis have to pass through waivers? Not that that would be a problem.

2006-06-07 19:58:24
165.   sanchez101
lets watch odalis give the lead back
2006-06-07 19:58:52
166.   D4P
I can't believe Perez, in his first start since being reinstated, is pitching this poorly

I can.

2006-06-07 19:59:03
167.   Greg Brock
158- Nice, Bob...Very nice.
2006-06-07 19:59:11
168.   Steve
Washed up
2006-06-07 19:59:49
169.   D4P
Is Methusalah an obvious "potential steroid/HGH user"?
2006-06-07 20:00:12
170.   Bob Timmermann
Let's keep Odalis busy from now on by giving him a Mobius strip and telling him to paint the inside of it.
2006-06-07 20:00:14
171.   Gen3Blue
Martin does fine.
I know the pitching in our system is a bit thin after Bills, but if we promoted four of the older guys from AAA/AA ---
Great god Furkie!
------ could they have done as well as Baez,Carter,Seo,and Hamulack. Actually the question is--could they have done as poorly as the fab four.
At the moment, we don't appear to have given up much for these guys, but I think this is a reason to be conservative for the people who do trades in the org.
2006-06-07 20:00:25
172.   Greg Brock
158-A mathematician confided
That a Möbius band is one-sided,
And you'll get quite a laugh,
If you cut one in half,
For it stays in one piece when divided
2006-06-07 20:02:30
173.   Bob Timmermann
169
I read a NYT profile of Franco. I don't think he's doing anything. He has an extraordinary workout regime. I could never follow his diet. He eats lots and lots and lots of protein and does tons of aerobic workouts. He's an interesting character.

I think he would be in worse shape if he kept taking weird stuff for this long.

2006-06-07 20:03:39
174.   Gen3Blue
Is Valentin playing second? There is hope yet!
2006-06-07 20:04:04
175.   D4P
I could never follow his diet. He eats lots and lots and lots of protein

But what if the protein came from Gnuburgers...?

2006-06-07 20:04:47
176.   Steve
Or Doug Eddings?
2006-06-07 20:05:42
177.   bhsportsguy
Martin had the key hit in the 2nd, he drove in the run that was sitting on 3rd with less than 2 out and he set up the situation that allowed Furcal to bat again in the 2nd.
2006-06-07 20:07:02
178.   bhsportsguy
Nice inning by Odalis. Now let's work some counts, just kidding Nomar probably sees the least amount of pitches on the team, but Kemp and Guzman can get a second look at Glavine.

Remember gals love homers....

2006-06-07 20:07:14
179.   D4P
176
Just found this.

http://dougeddingsisadouche.blogspot.com/

2006-06-07 20:07:17
180.   Gen3Blue
172 You've loosed the limerick beast in me.
There once was a young man from Boston.
Control returns.
2006-06-07 20:07:53
181.   Daniel Zappala
If he figures out the Mobius strip, can we then have Odalis paint the inside of a Klein bottle?
2006-06-07 20:08:06
182.   Fallout
169 D4P

His was all natural.

2006-06-07 20:11:23
183.   xaphor
Shin Kicking? What the Hell?
2006-06-07 20:11:40
184.   Gen3Blue
There may come a time in a few years when we can play our best hitters whenever we need them.
2006-06-07 20:13:43
185.   Greg Brock
According to The Onion, the Royals just hired Tom Emansky...Smart move, in my opinion. And why would The Onion lie?
2006-06-07 20:14:00
186.   xaphor
[184] Not if the Players Union has anything to say about it.
2006-06-07 20:15:13
187.   bhsportsguy
Guzman showing some athletism on that bunt play, he did play short which as I recall usually went to the most athletic guy on the field.
2006-06-07 20:16:07
188.   Gagne55
Does the first inning lead to Billingsley?
2006-06-07 20:16:39
189.   Uncle Miltie
Guzman has been about as impressive as Carter. He just isn't ready to be up here. I think he's actually lowered his trade value, which is very bad news because Carl Crawford is heating up.

Lofton showing off that noodle arm again.

2006-06-07 20:17:56
190.   Gagne55
Now Odalis can't even field anymore.
2006-06-07 20:18:46
191.   D4P
Jeff Seo warming up.
2006-06-07 20:18:56
192.   Uncle Miltie
Perez's pitching hasn't been terrible, but his fielding and inability to hold runners has hurt him.
2006-06-07 20:20:30
193.   Gen3Blue
If only Odalis didn't have to pitch when he has two outs.
2006-06-07 20:20:34
194.   Uncle Miltie
Jeff Seo warming up.
The human white flag.

Why is Perez giving up so many freaking singles?

2006-06-07 20:21:06
195.   D4P
Monday just said that that 89 MPH pitch was among Odalis' fastest of the evening.
2006-06-07 20:21:11
196.   Gen3Blue
Hasn't been terrible?
2006-06-07 20:21:14
197.   Steve
"Wash" "Ed" "Up"
"Wash" "Ed" "Up"

This is the first game in a while, if at all, that would go directly on Grittle's ledger.

2006-06-07 20:21:17
198.   ninjavshippo
not to pile on, but his pitching really has been terrible, uncle miltie. just fyi, i wanted seo on a short leash, too.
2006-06-07 20:22:21
200.   Vishal
i hope furcal has a hat trick up his sleeves tonight.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-06-07 20:22:32
201.   Greg Brock
Perez might be the most absolutely indifferent pitcher I've ever seen. "Odizzy, you have cancer....Huh, what? Okay, yeah, whatever. Where's the postgame spread?" It's hard to care about a player that doesn't care about the game.
2006-06-07 20:23:12
202.   scareduck
Jae Seo: Five different flavors of junk, no waiting.
2006-06-07 20:23:31
203.   Gagne55
Why is Perez giving up so many freaking singles?

Because he sucks.

2006-06-07 20:23:36
204.   D4P
Are Odalis and Seo completely fungible? Doesn't really matter which starts and which long relieves. The results are virtually indistinguishable.
2006-06-07 20:23:53
206.   Steve
That will draw at least a warning from our benevolent dictator.
2006-06-07 20:24:09
207.   scareduck
197 - for what? Not a short enough hook?
2006-06-07 20:24:38
208.   Bob Timmermann
Umm....

Can we relax a bit here and not turn this into an episode of "Deadwood"?

2006-06-07 20:24:42
209.   natepurcell
Clayton should just skip all that minor league hassle and take Odalis' next rotation turn.
2006-06-07 20:26:05
210.   Gagne55
Perez just lost all of his trade value this game. I just hope Glavine doesn't rebound here, but he probably will.

Billingsley time!!!

2006-06-07 20:26:26
211.   Steve
207 -- Not having a short hook compounded by letting him bat in the bottom of the second with two on for no apparent reason.
2006-06-07 20:26:30
212.   Bob Timmermann
206

I believe that we've gone past the warning level with some of those comments.

2006-06-07 20:27:33
213.   Dark Horse
A bold prediction: this is the last game Odalis will pitch in a Dodger uniform. (Although I'm not altogether sure if that's a prediction or just a devout wish.) Management clearly can't stand him, and I wouldn't be surprised if Billingsley gets called up tomorrow with Odalis optioned or dfa'd or what have you.
2006-06-07 20:27:44
214.   Steve
While we wait for another sign of life, who wants to play "Jason Grimsley Affidavit Mad Libs?"
2006-06-07 20:28:17
215.   Sushirabbit
So nice to look over at the 2006 payroll worksheet and see OP at the top with $9,500,000.

It seems like every year, year after year the Dodger's have an pitching albatross.

Lofton's done some good things, but he could have ended this side much earlier, roo.

2006-06-07 20:28:19
216.   natepurcell
Cruzin' chavez ravine.
2006-06-07 20:28:29
217.   Gagne55
"That will draw at least a warning from our benevolent dictator."

Is cussing not allowed on this site?

2006-06-07 20:29:03
218.   ninjavshippo
JCJ keeping us in the game!
2006-06-07 20:29:06
219.   sanchez101
when did the Dodgers beome the yankees, crappy pitching and a resilient offense
2006-06-07 20:29:12
220.   Steve
Meanwhile, Willie R. and Grittle are in a race to the bottom.
2006-06-07 20:29:36
221.   bhsportsguy
212 This game is far from over, 7 will not be enough tonight.

Right now, until the pitching staff is settled, we are going to play a lot of these games, at least Grady is used to them.

2006-06-07 20:30:07
222.   natepurcell
Is cussing not allowed on this site?

no its not but sexual baseball innuendos are.

2006-06-07 20:30:14
223.   Steve
crappy pitching and a resilient offense

See 2004, September.

2006-06-07 20:30:26
224.   Bob Timmermann
217

Not in the least.

It's a PG site.

2006-06-07 20:30:31
225.   Greg Brock
217-
A) It's certainly not necessary, and generally brings down the level of discourse, and

B) Thanks for saying what everyone was thinking...Don't do it again.

2006-06-07 20:30:59
226.   scareduck
Shouldn't that be ça va, BTW?
2006-06-07 20:31:21
227.   bhsportsguy
213 If Chad had shown just some economy with his pitches, he might be up here already but he is around 100 pitches by 6th in almost every start.
2006-06-07 20:31:46
228.   Uncle Miltie
Glavine gives up his 3rd home run of the game. He is junk, the Mets should release him now. Right?
2006-06-07 20:32:37
229.   ninjavshippo
has anyone considered what we'll do if chad isn't ready? or even worse, edwin jacksons our hopes down the drain?
2006-06-07 20:32:47
230.   Bob Timmermann
222
Sort of like the edited versions of "Sex and the City" they show now. Or the episodes of "The Sopranos" they will show on A&E.
2006-06-07 20:32:49
231.   natepurcell
227

I agree. He still nibbles quite a lot, evident by his low inning outings and high bbs.

2006-06-07 20:33:09
232.   Gagne55
Ok, sorry everyone, won't happen again. Perez just really gets on my nerves.
2006-06-07 20:33:09
233.   Greg Brock
You're absolutely right. Glavine and Odizzy are mirror images...I've said that for years. Except for that whole "Hall of Fame" baggage.
2006-06-07 20:33:11
234.   Steve
Glavine's ERA, this year, is 3.11. Perez's is 7.02. Perez is also a fat tub of goo, so you have to add that in to the equation.
2006-06-07 20:33:35
235.   scareduck
227 - Billingsley has had a tough May.
2006-06-07 20:33:43
236.   bhsportsguy
C'mon Jae get through the 5th and bring up the tying run in Slugger Furcal.
2006-06-07 20:34:09
237.   Uncle Miltie
If Perez is released, can he take Tomko and Seo with him? Baez can stay since we do need a mopup man.
2006-06-07 20:34:18
238.   ninjavshippo
uncle miltie: you're just sounding like a bitter sourpuss now. would you really like a statistical comparison of tom glavine and OP's careers? or can i save it?
2006-06-07 20:34:21
239.   regfairfield
To be fair to Odalis, seven runs in 3.2 innings isn't the worst outing the Dodgers have expirenced of late.
2006-06-07 20:34:27
240.   sanchez101
227. you mean like Penny and Lowe?
2006-06-07 20:34:40
241.   Gagne55
229- Holten looked decent last year. How's he doing now?
2006-06-07 20:35:51
242.   bhsportsguy
231 So Nate, do you agree that he has stop going for K's and get some outs on some early counts.
2006-06-07 20:36:11
243.   natepurcell
sourpuss

havent heard that in a while.

2006-06-07 20:36:45
244.   sanchez101
237. are you proposing a three man pitching staff?
2006-06-07 20:36:53
245.   Uncle Miltie
See that. It's called luck. Something Perez didn't get.
2006-06-07 20:37:05
246.   natepurcell
242

I think he should stop walking people but still K the hell out of the opposing lineup :)

2006-06-07 20:37:07
247.   Andrew Shimmin
226- We don't go in for that cedilla business around here. Bob may have a Mac with super fancy macros, but most of us are using good, cloth-coat PCs.
2006-06-07 20:37:56
248.   Sushirabbit
244.
4 man, we bring in Gagne and tell him to just get through the pain...
2006-06-07 20:38:00
249.   bhsportsguy
241 D.J. is just holding Orenduff's spot in AAA.
2006-06-07 20:38:07
250.   Vishal
[228] he came to this game with a 2.59 ERA and had allowed more than 3 runs in a start only once this season. perez' ERA before tonight was 6.05 and had allowed 7 runs in half his starts.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-06-07 20:38:12
251.   natepurcell
245

when does it stop being luck and starts being well... a fat tub of goo.

2006-06-07 20:38:35
252.   ninjavshippo
243 i'm the oldest sounding 23 yr old on the westside :)
2006-06-07 20:39:08
253.   natepurcell
D.J. is just holding Orenduff's spot in AAA.

well Orenduff hasnt pitched in over a week and I fear the worse for his elbow.

2006-06-07 20:39:31
254.   Steve
Perez could eat the Lucky Charms leprechaun, and it wouldn't help.
2006-06-07 20:39:51
255.   dan310
In Perez's defense, though I'm sure the the mere idea of defending Perez will offend some, he kept the ball in the park, got 4 K's, and gave up only one walk. Also, it's only one game.
2006-06-07 20:40:00
256.   Uncle Miltie
I am sourpuss because I don't think Perez should be sent to the guillotine after his first start in over a month?
2006-06-07 20:40:49
257.   bhsportsguy
Odalis will not have a long rope because this is a new administration and Neddy wouldn't be afraid to just dump in but he has a big contract, I know the Angels ate a lot of Appier's deal a few years ago but not this much.
2006-06-07 20:40:50
258.   natepurcell
Also, it's only one game.

thats the thing though, it hasnt been one game. hes been crap since last year.

2006-06-07 20:41:13
259.   Bob Timmermann
247
The Toaster software also has a problematic relationship with certain HTML characters when used in titles.
2006-06-07 20:41:54
260.   Steve
This is starting to sound like Jim Tracy before every Hideo Nomo start at the end of 2004.
2006-06-07 20:42:19
261.   Andrew Shimmin
OT: Nate, I asked earlier, but I don't think you were around. If the Dodgers had signed Hochevar, would Kershaw have still been available when their first pick came? There may not be a way to actually know this, but do you have an opinion?
2006-06-07 20:42:52
262.   Uncle Miltie
255- that's what I'm trying to say. It's bad luck. Meanwhile, Jae Seo and Brett Tomko are aspiring to lead the league in home runs allowed.
2006-06-07 20:42:52
263.   bhsportsguy
253 Remember last year when Chad started relieving and taking some extra time, I think that is the plan with the pitchers in A/AA ball.
2006-06-07 20:43:06
264.   Greg Brock
Miltie,
I'm trying to understand what it is about Perez that inspires a modicum of optimism? Is it his "team first" attitude, his outstanding workout regime, his command, his pitch economy, or his passion for the game?
2006-06-07 20:43:12
265.   regfairfield
255 Agreed, after the bashing he got in the first, the remaining hits were on little bloopers. I'll give him a pass for the first inning since he's barely pitched this month, but I think he's down to his last chance.
2006-06-07 20:43:45
266.   bhsportsguy
Okay Matt, this is your moment.........
2006-06-07 20:44:38
267.   regfairfield
264 How do you know Odalis doesn't care? Heck, the patented Odalis throwing the arms in the air in frustration shows more passion than most pitchers do on the mound.
2006-06-07 20:44:57
268.   Steve
There are plenty of "unlucky" pitchers that don't have 7 ERAs.
2006-06-07 20:45:42
269.   Greg Brock
267- Okay, I'll grant that for the sake of argument...And the other four things?
2006-06-07 20:46:00
270.   Steve
Nor has anybody spoken to the problem of Odalis's breaking ball. Though, admittedly, given that it doesn't exist, it would be hard to.
2006-06-07 20:46:33
271.   natepurcell
Nate, I asked earlier, but I don't think you were around. If the Dodgers had signed Hochevar, would Kershaw have still been available when their first pick came? There may not be a way to actually know this, but do you have an opinion?

Probably not. The Tigers were hot after Kershaw and liked Stubbs very much as well. They were going to choose between Stubbs or Kershaw if none of the top college pitchers dropped to them. We would probably had picked Bryan Morris at #7 or take a chance on Drabek.

2006-06-07 20:48:42
272.   regfairfield
269 The wonderful thing about baseball is that you can be morbidly obese and still play. Does anyone care that Gagne is just as fat?

Odalis was among the league leaders in K/BB ratio almost every year, despite not being a strikeout pitcher, indicating excellent control.

The other things, I'll give you, though I really don't care about his attitude.

2006-06-07 20:49:16
273.   Greg Brock
267- There is also the fact that Bobby Cox basically called Perez a waste of talent, and he's not exactly the most well respected guy in the clubhouse.
2006-06-07 20:49:38
274.   dan310
258 He's been okay some times and awful others. Given that we only have 2 pitchers that I actually trust, and there have been points in his career when he was useful, I'd give him another chance. But even with all my optimism, he sure isn't inspiring confidence.
2006-06-07 20:51:06
275.   Steve
Does anybody care that Odalis Perez is the world's first no-pitch pitcher? I mean, at least Baez has one pitch. What does Perez have? He has a, um, a fast...um, no...so he must have a curve...um, no that pitch doesn't really do that....
2006-06-07 20:51:40
276.   Uncle Miltie
264- all of those things are your opinion. He actually worked hard this off season and lost weight. Remember he hired a personal trainer for the first time? He said he was more committed than in the past.

None of your points hold water. Just admit it, you don't like the guy for reason that have nothing do with his pitching ability. I'm sorry that Perez isn't a 6'5 220 pounds All American boy.

2006-06-07 20:52:55
277.   D4P
Jaeff is keeping us in the game.
2006-06-07 20:53:05
278.   Andrew Shimmin
275- But does he have SWAGGER?
2006-06-07 20:53:10
279.   natepurcell
uncle miltie: jeff kent
greg brock: oh, dallas
2006-06-07 20:53:52
280.   Greg Brock
Actually, I've been a fan of his for a long time. But at some point, you need to objectively analyze his performance, and he stinks. And I don't see the need to inject some culture/race/ethnicity red herring into the equation. It's innacurate, and frankly, it's pretty offensive.
2006-06-07 20:54:21
281.   fawnkyj
What does Perez have?

He pitches left handed and.......thats about it.

2006-06-07 20:54:53
282.   Marty
You know you've seen vintage Odalis when after someone hits one of his soft-tosses, he throws up his arms in bewilderment. We got that in the first inning tonight. I can't stand him.

Now that said, I honestly can't say we have any other options available.

2006-06-07 20:55:25
283.   bhsportsguy
257 Well I guess the Halos did eat a lot of salary, when they released Appier, he was owed 3+ million for the current 2003 season and another 12 million for 2004 so although it would be a surprise, it would not be unprecedented.
2006-06-07 20:55:31
284.   natepurcell
Oh, Dallas has a pretty nice change up.
2006-06-07 20:55:57
285.   sanchez101
275. he has a ... slowball? a straight? a right-on-speed pitch? i could go on.
2006-06-07 20:58:52
286.   sanchez101
282. the abusrdity of all the kevetching over perez, seo, and tomko is that just about every team has a couple starters that arent impressive. Even when you have a good pitcher, they can stink, theres a certain hall of famer thats struggling as we speak, or uh, type.
2006-06-07 20:59:28
287.   Steve
He will probably become the Dominican Terry Mulholland, and pitch until he's 45. But as far as anything serious, he's done. Now, I am aware of the problems of who to replace him with, and maybe the answer is nobody -- it's certainly not to trade Jonathan Broxton for David Wells (actually, the answer is probably to put Broxton in the rotation where he belongs) -- but that still doesn't get us anywhere with Perez and his non-pitches.
2006-06-07 20:59:43
288.   Marty
Odalis has the baseball version of "slow baby bounces" in kickball.
2006-06-07 21:00:03
289.   underdog
You know, at this point Peter Billingsley's looking good to me.
2006-06-07 21:01:20
290.   Bob Timmermann
Barbara Billingsley would even be an improvement.

At least she can speak jive.

2006-06-07 21:01:39
291.   Sushirabbit
Somehow, I have a sinking feeling Perez,Izturis,Werth,Lofton, and players to be named to Washington for Leviathan. I think I'd take Livan over Perez, right now anyway.
2006-06-07 21:02:34
292.   Andrew Shimmin
288- lol.
2006-06-07 21:03:35
293.   Marty
How does one get to be a submarine style pitcher?
2006-06-07 21:04:19
294.   sanchez101
mets fans must be going nuts with valentin
2006-06-07 21:05:39
295.   Andrew Shimmin
His high school coach converted him to side-arming, when he was cut from the team. Then he just kept going lower, till he caught the eye of DePo's old laptop.
2006-06-07 21:06:01
296.   D4P
How does one get to be a submarine style pitcher?

By way of crafty, under-handed means...

2006-06-07 21:06:19
297.   sanchez101
291. i dont think so
2006-06-07 21:06:39
298.   Greg Brock
I'm just enjoying the absurdity of trying to defend Perez as something other than a formerly average, now below average pitcher. This is like listening to people tell me how great Joe Namath was, or that Jayson Werth is ready for a "breakout" season. No, really, Steven Dorff just needs a good starring vehicle, and he'll be great...I swear. And Marty, they explain Bradford's transformation into a knuckle scraping reliever in "Moneyball."
2006-06-07 21:06:48
299.   Gagne55
I don't have any problem with Perez' attitude. I'm fine with his fitness. The only reason I don't like him is because he keeps getting lit up. I loved the guy back in 2004 FWIW.
2006-06-07 21:06:57
300.   D4P
the eye of DePo's old laptop

AKA "Sauron"

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-06-07 21:07:39
301.   Bob Timmermann
The Mets fans don't like Valentin, but they speak of Kazuo Matsui in terms used by Ian McShane on "Deadwood."
2006-06-07 21:08:18
302.   Gagne55
298- Perez was really good in 2002 and 2004
2006-06-07 21:08:20
303.   Steve
"Fat tub of goo" was supposed to be metaphorical in nature.
2006-06-07 21:08:37
304.   Andrew Shimmin
The trouble is, Perez has never been average. He's had two solidly above average seasons, and four (plus this one) garabge ones. His good ones, '02 and '04, were the ones in which he threw the most innings, so maybe the solution is to pitch him every three days. That should make everybody happy, right?
2006-06-07 21:09:18
305.   Marty
Speaking of Deadwood, I believe it starts up its final season this Sunday.
2006-06-07 21:09:40
306.   MartinBillingsley31
When your #3 starting pitcher is one of the following names (perez,seo,tomko,sele), your starting pitching has problems.
Now the question is should ned have gotten millwood, or should ned go after zito this offseason?

We have billingsley, but thats it for the near future.
Orenduff 2008 if not 2009
Elbert 2009

I know i'm a broken record but lofton, mueller, baez contracts combined could have paid for millwood this season, but the bad thing about millwood is the length of his contract.

The way money has corrupted baseball, the teams that can build around prospects are going to be the sucessfull teams.
Thank you logan white.

2006-06-07 21:09:50
307.   Bob Timmermann
If Odalis Perez were Hideki Irabu, there would likely be references to toads made.
2006-06-07 21:09:54
308.   Gagne55
Gagne has swelling. Not good.
2006-06-07 21:10:20
309.   Uncle Miltie
291- Livan is a bad character guy. Livan is fat. Ned will trade Perez because of his bad character. Terry Muholland is a good character guy. We're obviously losing because the clubhouse chemistry isn't good right now. Heart is more important than talent.
2006-06-07 21:11:37
310.   Ravenscar
Bob deserves more credit than he got (none) for his Airplane/actress cross-reference in 290.
2006-06-07 21:11:40
311.   Marty
But Mulholland and Lofton cannot be in the same clubhouse. As I said on another thread, the univers would explode.
2006-06-07 21:12:15
312.   Steve
Heart is more important than talent.

No argument from me. But where's the talent part?

2006-06-07 21:12:39
313.   sanchez101
304. this is just a hunch, but i think the last thing anybody needs is more odalis, but hey ... that just my opinion.
2006-06-07 21:14:48
314.   Bob Timmermann
310

And the lone Mets fan here chimes in!

Thank you.

I also believe he is the only Mets fan online who is polite.

Even the ones I know in SABR seem kind of grouchy.

2006-06-07 21:15:19
315.   Gagne55
There goes any chance of a comeback.
2006-06-07 21:15:21
316.   natepurcell
way to hang one seo.
2006-06-07 21:15:29
317.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Evening, all. Just now able to check in - stupid job. Thankfully, I've got some La Fin Du Monde and pizza (pepperoni, sausage, and green pepper) to ease my angst.
Uh, where did Furcal find the power? And what becomes of OP?
Also, Phoenix radio is in full meltdown over Grimsely. It's kinda nice to hear.
Ugh. Way to go, Seo.
2006-06-07 21:15:47
318.   Sushirabbit
did someone say fungible?
2006-06-07 21:15:48
319.   Uncle Miltie
Jae Seo Seo is back. That home run won't hurt the clubhouse chemistry though.
2006-06-07 21:16:00
320.   regfairfield
I like Seo's frustration dance more than Odalis'
2006-06-07 21:16:01
321.   D4P
Leave it to Jaeff
2006-06-07 21:16:04
322.   Greg Brock
309. What do I know? I should love Odalis because of his stellar ERA, but hate him because he isn't a white Presbyterian from Ohio...Says you.
I never said attitude was a reason for trading the guy, I actually hate that "chemistry" nonsense. But attitude generally reflects work ethic, and by all empirical evidence, the guy is not serious about working hard. He's a fatbody, blames others for anything, and has been chastised by every manager he's ever had. And then there's the fact that he stinks. That's kind of a big deal as well.
2006-06-07 21:16:11
323.   natepurcell
Did Lastings give high fives to the Mets fans in the front rows?
2006-06-07 21:16:25
324.   sanchez101
306. would it be a problem is Chan Ho Park was our #3 starter, or matt morris, or miguel batista, or byung yung kim? ah, if only we had shawn chacon!
2006-06-07 21:16:34
325.   Marty
Lastings seems like the real deal.
2006-06-07 21:16:56
326.   Steve
It's Weaverific!
2006-06-07 21:17:02
327.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
313 - What we really need is... more cowbell!
2006-06-07 21:17:33
328.   Steve
Hi Grady! Don't get in a hurry or anything and trip.
2006-06-07 21:18:23
329.   natepurcell
Knee high socks and beards should be mandatory.
2006-06-07 21:18:26
330.   Uncle Miltie
320- he has better makeup, which makes up for the lack of talent
2006-06-07 21:19:15
331.   Sushirabbit
327
It's a trilogy: Perez,Seo,Tomko and Baez
2006-06-07 21:19:47
332.   bhsportsguy
I told you 7 would not be enough.
2006-06-07 21:20:17
333.   regfairfield
331 An increasingly inaccurately named one.
2006-06-07 21:20:32
334.   Greg Brock
If only every starter was as "talented" as Odizzy Perez. You know who's really "talented?" Josh Hamilton. So was Len Bias.
2006-06-07 21:21:33
335.   Marty
Shin kicking. Yeah, that looks like fun.
2006-06-07 21:21:36
336.   Jon Weisman
226 - I was taught you don't use accents with capital letters. I think the same is true with the cedille, though I admit it has been nearly 20 years since my last French class.
2006-06-07 21:22:04
337.   bhsportsguy
Who would have thought that Aaron Sele would be the third most consistent starter on the team.
2006-06-07 21:22:24
338.   Uncle Miltie
Sidney Ponson has been a steal for the Cardinals, but he has bad makeup. If the Pirates ever put him on the market, I'd love to take a gamble on Oliver Perez. On the other hand, Perez doesn't have a great work ethic.
2006-06-07 21:22:33
339.   Greg Brock
I hear Zach Greinke is back...He has tons of talent too. And a five cent head.
2006-06-07 21:23:26
340.   bhsportsguy
The Mets bullpen despite its high ranking has given up its share of runs.
2006-06-07 21:23:30
341.   Ravenscar
No problem Bob, and thanks for the kind words. I'm only thins polite in an away stadium.

As far as grumpy, aren't all fans on the east coast? Gets kind of annoying.

Milledge really looking good lately.

Hasn't Odalis been rumored once or twice to come to the Mets.

Eeeeeeeek!

2006-06-07 21:23:33
342.   Uncle Miltie
Wilber with another hit. Fookie going for the hat trick? Lofton will inevitably do something stupid.
2006-06-07 21:23:57
343.   Sushirabbit
333
I think I was responding to a Spinal Tap reference, but maybe I just imagined it. They showed Reiner ealier, too. Lick my love pump.
2006-06-07 21:24:02
344.   natepurcell
I hear Zach Greinke is back...He has tons of talent too. And a five cent head.

its not that he has a 10 cent head, its that he is almost bi-polar.

2006-06-07 21:24:11
345.   bhsportsguy
Willy Aybar is doing his best to stake a job here in L.A.
2006-06-07 21:25:25
346.   D4P
Not sure if this is common knowledge:

Right fielder J.D. Drew, who left Tuesday night's game after six innings, was not in the lineup Wednesday night while nursing a tender right hamstring muscle.

2006-06-07 21:26:04
347.   Steve
I see sentences with words like "Perez" and "talent" in them, but they are increasingly hard to read.
2006-06-07 21:26:44
348.   natepurcell
furry almost unleashed a fury.
2006-06-07 21:27:16
349.   regfairfield
343 It's SNL.
2006-06-07 21:27:21
350.   D4P
Will Gaffy be swinging for the downs from now on?
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-06-07 21:27:35
351.   Greg Brock
344-
Yes, and as unfortunate as it is, in sports, that would be the definition of a ten cent head. I know it's not very sympathetic, or particularly kind...truth hurts. I hope he learns to manage his illness, but I wouldn't want that problem on my team. Pete Harnisch was a great guy, but not to have in the clubhouse. I think that's a pretty fair assessment, and in no way an attack on the lad.
2006-06-07 21:28:11
352.   sanchez101
is there a way lofton can light a fire under himself
2006-06-07 21:28:15
353.   Uncle Miltie
Lofton will inevitably do something stupid.
I'm shocked that I was right. Another quality at bat by Lofton.
2006-06-07 21:28:41
354.   Steve
Oliver Perez? Good Lord, Miltie is obsessed with untalented left-handers named Perez. It's time for an intervention.

But Lofton did indeed do something stupid.

2006-06-07 21:29:41
355.   Marty
Lofty needs to light a fire...under himself.
2006-06-07 21:29:58
356.   natepurcell
351

my idea of the "10 cent head" stereotype is of person who is perfectly normal but acts like a moron/idiot/imbecile not of someone who is mentally sick. But whatever, I learn something new everyday.

2006-06-07 21:30:21
357.   Marty
Maybe I should hit refresh before I post...
2006-06-07 21:30:28
358.   sanchez101
i have never, in my entire life, ever heard of a "ten cent head", or "five cent head". what does that mean, is it some sort of derogatory name for people with mental illness?
2006-06-07 21:30:53
359.   regfairfield
I hate to defend two crappy players in one night, but Lofton does have an .810 OPS.
2006-06-07 21:31:48
360.   Uncle Miltie
How is Oliver Perez untalented? Is it the 239 strikeout, 2.99 ERA season as a 22 year old? His velocity is down (now in the low 90s, high 80s), but he has one of the best sliders in baseball.
2006-06-07 21:31:58
361.   Marty
ten cent head, in my mind comes from "He's got a million-dollar arm, but a ten-cent head" Sort of a Nuke LaLoosh reference.
2006-06-07 21:32:43
362.   sanchez101
354. in milties defense, Oliver has two things Odalis doesnt have; a small salary, and a pitch.
2006-06-07 21:32:54
363.   Marty
359 I just like to nag on Lofton. It's fun.
2006-06-07 21:33:49
364.   Uncle Miltie
358- the saying is, "million dollar arm, ten cent head". It means they are very talented, but also lack the instincts/baseball knowledge usually required to become a great pitcher.
2006-06-07 21:33:51
365.   Sushirabbit
I think Lofton is defensible, but everybody gets extra bases on his arm.
2006-06-07 21:34:06
366.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Pete Harnisch was a great guy, but not to have in the clubhouse.
Harnisch suffered from depression. So, what are you getting at?
2006-06-07 21:34:27
367.   Steve
I had a friend was a big baseball player
back in high school
He could throw that speedball by you
Make you look like a fool boy
Saw him the other night at this roadside bar
I was walking in, he was walking out
We went back inside sat down had a few drinks
but all he kept talking about was

Glory days well they'll pass you by
Glory days in the wink of a young girl's eye
Glory days, glory days

2006-06-07 21:34:40
368.   natepurcell
Kuo does well.
2006-06-07 21:34:52
369.   Greg Brock
356- Ten cent head just means that you lack the capacity to conduct yourself like a normal human being. It DOES NOT connote mental illness or fragility, rather a sort of flaky nature. But it's fair to say that being bi-polar, in the sports community, would be identified as a "ten cent head" (fairly or unfairly).
2006-06-07 21:35:50
370.   natepurcell
I just talked to someone who knows Alex White personally and he said Alex is looking for around 850,000 to sign and not attend UNC.
2006-06-07 21:37:14
371.   regfairfield
370 I get some satisfaction knowing that my cross country times were better than his.

With that said, give that to him immediately.

2006-06-07 21:37:31
372.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Vin can make the most ludicrous of fanboy - or, fangirl - behavior seem sweet.
(And, you have no idea how happy I am to not spell that "ludacris.")
2006-06-07 21:37:51
373.   D4P
370
I accepted a lot less than that to attend UNC.
2006-06-07 21:38:20
374.   Disabled List
I miss Duaner.
2006-06-07 21:38:26
375.   Steve
No No Nomar.
2006-06-07 21:38:32
376.   Vaudeville Villain
ARGH
2006-06-07 21:38:46
377.   sanchez101
370. i think all the senior picks ahead of akins and white means that White may have the cash to sign those two.
2006-06-07 21:38:56
378.   Bob Timmermann
It wasn't until Alex Johnson's troubles in 1971 that a major league player was put on the disabled list, officially, with a mental illness. And Johnson had to file a grievance to do so.

You would have to think that dozens of players before Johnson suffered from depression or some other mental illness. If they weren't stars, they were likely just cut loose.

2006-06-07 21:39:00
379.   Greg Brock
366-
Look, you guys are attacking the messenger. I'm sorry, but in the one dimensional world of sports, athletes don't take the time to dissect the nature of mental illness. You're either solid or you're not. I, like any family member, have dealt with it (more than most of you, I'd dare to venture), but it's just not something people look at objectively in sports. I'm sorry to break that to you.
2006-06-07 21:39:50
380.   Steve
We are not going to miss Mr. Royal. Come on McCourt. You spent 27 million on the fat tub of goo who started tonight. You can't give less than a million to a kid with a pitch?
2006-06-07 21:39:57
381.   sanchez101
374. i know, he could toss his glove over his head like no other
2006-06-07 21:40:20
382.   D4P
Nomar selfishly trying to increase his SLG%.
2006-06-07 21:40:50
383.   natepurcell
i think all the senior picks ahead of akins and white means that White may have the cash to sign those two.

i agree. One of those college picks D'Alessio has talent though. he was the best defensive 1b in the SEC and he smacked 20 homers.

2006-06-07 21:40:50
384.   Uncle Miltie
370- Pay the man right now!

Nomar just made a big Lofton.

2006-06-07 21:42:06
385.   Vaudeville Villain
384-

I feel like that's similar to getting "Munsoned" from the movie Kingpin.

2006-06-07 21:42:34
386.   Andrew Shimmin
Were you just the messenger when you made the crack about Len Bias?
2006-06-07 21:42:34
387.   D4P
"D" "J" "Drew"
"D" "J" "Drew"
2006-06-07 21:42:47
388.   Disabled List
The Mets D has been tremendous in this series. Very solid run prevention.
2006-06-07 21:43:50
389.   regfairfield
Nate, you're probably sick of draft questions, but why did Bridger Hunt, a guy with a .415/.484/.721 23 K 37 BB line go in the ninth round?
2006-06-07 21:43:54
390.   Steve
EEth EE ER

EEth EE ER

2006-06-07 21:44:14
391.   natepurcell
Drew probably ruptured his hammy on that play.
2006-06-07 21:44:33
392.   Ravenscar
You guys have any clue why Duaner went from unhittable to unwatchable so fast?

I mean, it was still a good trade for us, but we're a little confused over here.

2006-06-07 21:44:34
393.   Andrew Shimmin
Please ignore 386. No good making this personal. I didn't like the remark, so, there you go.
2006-06-07 21:45:28
394.   regfairfield
392 Because he's an interchangeable relief pitcher who was really lucky in April.
2006-06-07 21:46:04
395.   Greg Brock
Andrew, I didn't make any crack about Len Bias. The guy had tons of talent, and died of a drug overdose right after the draft. The conversation was about talent, and I brought him up as an example about how character and talent don't always go together. There was no "crack" at him. I didn't call him a name, I didn't mock his death, and I didn't make a joke of his death. You're "crack" accusation is just plain wrong.
2006-06-07 21:46:11
396.   Steve
392 -- Are you in general unfamiliar with the concept of the middle reliever?
2006-06-07 21:46:12
397.   bhsportsguy
370 That is going to be difficult to get through MLB office, last year that amount was last paid out to the 39th pick in the 1st Supplemental Round.

The Dodgers bonus to Andy LaRoche has been mentioned as one of the times the MLB office may have fined a team for going over the slot bonus.

But then again, Logan White and his staff probably have some idea of what it might it cost, he surely was going to accept 5 figures.

2006-06-07 21:47:04
398.   natepurcell
389

because he is a college 2b that went to a very small school (central missouri st) and he isnt very toolsy.

2006-06-07 21:47:25
399.   capdodger
Wow... Saenz almost torqued himself into the ground on the 3-1 pitch.
2006-06-07 21:47:26
400.   Ravenscar
OK, I take that back.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-06-07 21:47:30
401.   regfairfield
That was a pretty wicked pitch.
2006-06-07 21:48:15
402.   Vaudeville Villain
392-

He did that for us last year, but in reverse.

2006-06-07 21:48:36
403.   Bob Timmermann
386 395
So this matter is closed?
2006-06-07 21:49:06
404.   natepurcell
You guys have any clue why Duaner went from unhittable to unwatchable so fast?

he's a middle reliever, they are as combustible as a fat tub of goo starting pitchers.

2006-06-07 21:49:30
405.   Bob Timmermann
Duaner Sanchez is a good pitcher as long as he keeps his glove on. And doesn't give up home runs to Javy Vazquez.
2006-06-07 21:49:59
406.   Steve
Sanchez is ok as middle relievers go. I always liked him, and he'll probably keep his ERA under 4 most years.
2006-06-07 21:50:03
407.   sanchez101
395. ya, but werent you the one that made the "crack" about Chick Hearn?
2006-06-07 21:50:34
408.   regfairfield
398 Fair enough, but unlike our 11th round pick, Justin Fuller, that massive line crushed every other player in the central division, so it's not completely empty.
2006-06-07 21:50:52
409.   natepurcell
397

Dodgers got fined for that? Can you link me to some literature on that. I dont remember them getting fined.

2006-06-07 21:51:00
410.   Ravenscar
396 - No, I'm not unfamiliar, but this year our middle relievers have been above "general". Er, above replacement-level, rather.
2006-06-07 21:51:06
411.   Steve
Duaner is way better than Fat Tub of Goo Man. I still think we should have made Duaner a starter a long time ago.
2006-06-07 21:51:56
412.   natepurcell
408

I agree, his numbers look very solid. We'll see how his bat translates to wood and go from there.

2006-06-07 21:52:11
413.   Vaudeville Villain
"You may remember Alay Soler beat Brett Tomko."

Thanks, Vin.

Want to also talk about that time that kid stepped on my macaroni picture in preschool?

2006-06-07 21:52:15
414.   D4P
he's a middle reliever, they are as combustible as a fat tub of goo starting pitchers.

Danys is a rare breed: fat tub of goo middle reliever.

2006-06-07 21:53:38
415.   Steve
There's Baez's pitch.
2006-06-07 21:54:07
416.   Greg Brock
403-Absolutely. I'll just chalk up Andrew's comment to an undying love for Lefty Driesell..And, frankly, who doesn't feel the same.
2006-06-07 21:54:09
417.   natepurcell
414

Bob Wickman says hi D4P! he wants to join the club.

2006-06-07 21:54:43
418.   capdodger
Baez: Could you not go to a three-ball count on every, single, freaking batter?!?
2006-06-07 21:55:01
419.   natepurcell
the starting catcher in the next 10 allstar games throws out the starting 3b in the next 10 allstar games.
2006-06-07 21:55:25
420.   Ravenscar
Ouch.

Your clever slides will not help you NOW Mister Bond! Er, Wright.

2006-06-07 21:55:34
421.   regfairfield
417 He'll have to speak to President King.
2006-06-07 21:55:43
422.   sanchez101
414. your thinking of wilson alvarez. banys baez is a very common breed: proven reliever veteran guy.
2006-06-07 21:55:43
423.   fawnkyj
That kid Russ is one of a kind.
2006-06-07 21:56:23
424.   bhsportsguy
403 My only comment is that tomorrow night is now marks 18 consectutive NBA Finals without an appearance by the Boston Celtics.

The longest the Lakers have gone is 9 years in their history.

2006-06-07 21:57:13
425.   capdodger
418 - I guess all I had to do was ask. Let's try this again.

Mr. Wagner: Please give up a two singles followed by a three run homer. Please?

2006-06-07 21:57:20
426.   Andrew Shimmin
403- There are precious few acceptable reasons to score points off of dead kids. I said what I think, but I won't presume to have any right to the last word.
2006-06-07 21:58:18
427.   underdog
Well, on the plus side Kuo and (!) Baez pitched well tonight. Seo did too, at first, but he just couldn't quite lastings.

Whatever happens tonight I don't know what to make of this game or how much import to attach to it except that Odalis Perez is on very thin ice/a short leash.

2006-06-07 21:59:08
428.   Steve
banys baez might be that. danys baez is overrated Tampa Bay middle reliever with one pitch guy.
2006-06-07 21:59:13
429.   Bob Timmermann
Michael Cuddyer tied the game up in Seattle with a 2-out grand slam off of Soriano after somehow not being called out on strikes on a pitch right over the plate.

That game will never end.

2006-06-07 21:59:14
430.   D4P
Who decided that the name "William" could be shortened to "Bill" or "Billy"?
2006-06-07 22:00:13
431.   Bob Timmermann
430
The same group that gave us the name "Bob" from "Robert", "Peggy" from "Margaret", and "Ed" from "Theodore".
2006-06-07 22:00:13
432.   bhsportsguy
409 The fines for the LaRoche and Tiffany bonuses have only been alluded to, MLB does not announce these types of fines because they really don't have any say if a team decides to overspend.

However, there was a lot of speculation is that the MLB office weighted heavily in the decisions re why the Mets and Rays did not pay their draft and follows the money they wanted.

2006-06-07 22:00:47
433.   underdog
sigh

{sulk}

{pout}

Night!

2006-06-07 22:01:21
434.   Disabled List
I have Wagner on my fantasy team. This presents a bit of a rooting conundrum.

Well, not really.

2006-06-07 22:01:29
435.   Ravenscar
Um, yay?

-very quietly walks away-

2006-06-07 22:03:08
436.   Steve
There was too much Grittle in that loss.
2006-06-07 22:03:30
437.   Greg Brock
426- We agree to disagree. Fair enough, as long as you realize that you're wrong. And I think you do. I kid. The scoring points thing is a bit unfair, though, as I just brought him up as an example. Are the deceased off limits? Death doesn't make one's sins unmentionable.
2006-06-07 22:03:32
438.   Ravenscar
429

And I was just wondering if I was eligible for a HLD from Sori on my fantasy team because the tying run was at the plate when he came in.

grrrrr

2006-06-07 22:08:17
439.   Bob Timmermann
And the Mets retake the title of best record in the National League.

The Dodgers remain 1 1/2 games behind Arizona. El Duque makes his triumphal return to Arizona.

2006-06-07 22:14:06
440.   thinkingblue
On the brightside, we can now start the countdown to Chad Billingsley.
2006-06-07 22:26:59
441.   bhsportsguy
With the off day, my hunch is that the rotation in Colorado will be Penny, Tomko and Lowe. Now the question is who will pitch next Tuesday, Penny and Tomko will pitch Wednesday and Thursday and then Lowe will open up in Oakland on Friday. Whoever pitches Tuesday will have to pitch again on Sunday but the Saturday pitcher won't have to pitch for another week.

If that is confusing than let me try it this way, as it stands Grady has 3 guys who will all have plenty rest come next Tuesday, Sele, Perez and Seo, however whoever he throws that day is going to pitch again the following Sunday, while the one of the other 2 won't be needed until the Saturday game in Oakland.

The Dodgers also have pretty much said that Kent is coming off the DL next week and with Izzy and Navarro off in Vegas, many moves will have to made in the near future.

BTW - Chad's next start is probably Saturday so if he doesn't pitch that day, then maybe something is up.

2006-06-07 22:31:20
442.   Uncle Miltie
Tomko in Coors, that should be fun to watch....for the fans at the game.
2006-06-07 22:35:59
443.   Greg Brock
Tomko at Coors, that should be fun to watch...For NORAD.
2006-06-07 22:44:17
444.   JoeyP
Tomko got extremely lucky his last game at Coors. He had like a 13-4 FB/GB ratio but still only ended up giving 3run in 7ip I think. Every other start since has been a non-quality start.

The Dodgers pitching staff is a tough problem. On one hand, (Seo, Tomko, Sele) are all #5 level starters. Its only a matter of time before Sele regresses. Also, while Penny/Lowe are good, I think even Lowe is pitching above his head. I didnt think he'd be this good. I dont think he'll continue to be that. Penny I expect to maintain his peformance.

The only starter that can be expected to reasonably improve on what he's done this year is Odalis. He's 29, and even in his worst seasons he's around league average. In his best seasons, he's well above it. OP is the one pitcher the team should count on to improve as the season wears on, but its looking more and more like he'll be given up on.

With Lowe regressing (at least slightly), (Seo, Tomko, Sele) just not being any good, the pitching is in a tough bind. I dont think the answers are going to come from a trade. The only way this situation improves is if OP, Billingsley, Broxton, Orenduff emerge.

If it doesnt improve, I think the only way the Dodgers stay in the race is if Arizona continues to make dumb personell moves or has injuries.

2006-06-07 22:44:32
445.   Marty
"Fat tub of goo" should have been retired with Terry Forster.
2006-06-07 22:46:18
446.   Greg Brock
Odizzy Perez isn't a fat tub of goo. Odizzy has talent...Or so I'm told.
2006-06-08 00:17:29
447.   DeucesAreWild
Useless comparison:

Beltre

225AB, .232, 4HR, 12XBH, 19RBI.

Ethier

85AB, .291, 4HR, 9XBH, 14RBI.

2006-06-08 00:27:35
448.   Greg Brock
Adrian Beltre...Has there ever been a more inexplicable major league career? From chronic underachiever, to bona fide MVP, to comlete oblivion. Getting rid of those bone spurs absolutely killed his plate approach. Plus, he killed the entire Dominican appendectomy industry.
2006-06-08 03:02:38
449.   Andrew Shimmin
It looks like Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is dead.

http://tinyurl.com/zpnn5

2006-06-08 03:06:54
450.   Greg Brock
Yeah Andrew, I just saw that on Imus...Wow, this may be a real turning point. You know, like the other 89 turning points.
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2006-06-08 03:12:30
451.   Greg Brock
It will be interesting to see what happens with the Iraqi insurgents versus the foreign fighters. Who takes over ruining the country, and terrorizing the citizens of Iraq?
2006-06-08 03:14:28
452.   Greg Brock
Sounds like the Jordanians had a lot to do with pinning Zarqawi down. Reason 8,000 to like King Abdullah. His dad was a great man, and it looks like he is as well.
2006-06-08 03:24:39
453.   Greg Brock
If Jordan would accept responsibilty for the West Bank, and admit that their expultion of Palestinians caused this entire Middle East mess, the world would be a better place. Then again, they wouldn't be able to blame Jews, and that would really hurt their prowess...And with that, we're done with Meet the Press...We now go back to Nomar's home/road splits.
2006-06-08 05:09:46
454.   JoeyP
Zarqawi was more of a problem than Bin Laden was the last several years. This is an important kill.

I think Hussein's trial/conviction/execution will be of importance as well.

2006-06-08 07:12:33
455.   Nagman
If you haven't read it, there is some Classic Odalis in today's Times, when asked if he should stay in the rotation: "Of course. They scored seven runs off me [but] I know you saw how many broken-bat bloopers they hit off me. When you go out there and that happens, what can you do?"
2006-06-08 07:42:58
456.   JoeyP
If I was a pitcher, I'd have said the same thing. Although a better sound bite might have been "We'll, I guess the only thing I could done better would have been to strike everyone out myself"... Of course, he'd get ripped for blaming his defense if that were the case, so he's darned in whatever he chooses to say.
2006-06-08 07:47:49
457.   Nagman
I think Beltran's first two hits were bloops, but it seemed like there were a lot of line drives.
2006-06-08 08:06:51
458.   D4P
Wow, this may be a real turning point. You know, like the other 89 turning points.

Wow, this must be a Mission Accomplished. You know, like the other 89 missions accomplished.

2006-06-08 08:23:34
459.   Steve
The Scott Erickson Defense hasn't been this unconvincing, since, uh, Scott Erickson tried it.
2006-06-08 08:31:02
460.   King of the Hobos
The Brewers acted fast and have already signed Brent Brewer.
2006-06-08 08:43:30
461.   King of the Hobos
It's still early June, but Jacksonville's 8th straight win yesterday clinched a playoff berth for them.
2006-06-08 08:47:23
462.   Bob Timmermann
I'm assuimg there's a split season or else Jacksonville has been one hot team.
2006-06-08 08:57:12
463.   Daniel Zappala
Too bad for the Brewers that the Angels snapped up Tadd Brewer and Charles Brewer.
2006-06-08 09:01:54
464.   Daniel Zappala
The LA Times has the PDF of the Grimsley affadavit, in which he names many names. They are all blacked out, but it is obvious that one name begins with J and in another place he talks about teammates from last year on the Orioles. He also prominently mentions "Latin players" as the source of drugs and steroids, with amphetamines prevalent in previous years. This could get really ugly and is a clear bonanza for the lead FBI agent, who is also the guy who lead the Balco investigation. It is very clear from the affadavit that the FBI does not fool around.
2006-06-08 10:04:46
465.   still bevens
So does anyone have a decent narrative as to why Odalis has fallen apart the last couple of years, and additionally, why in god's name did Depodesta resign him for so long/so much moneys? Is it all mental?
2006-06-08 10:12:33
466.   JoeyP
He probably resigned him bc the pitching market was thin, OP was entering his prime, and OP had had 2 good seasons and 1 average season with the Dodgers. Its really not "so much money" when taken in context with the market at the time. If you're LH, can toss 200IP of sub 3.50 ERA, and are 27. Chances are you're gonna get at least 8mils a season.
2006-06-08 10:17:39
467.   JoeyP
I'll also add that if anything, OP signed for below his market value that year. That was a market that saw Russ Ortiz get 4yr/40, and even our own Derek Lowe signed for 4/36. And Lowe was older, and coming off a worse season than OP was. I guess I'm with Miltie. I dont understand the ridicule for the guy. If OP is the best option there is, then you pitch him. Its really simple.

I think comparing OP to Erickson.. man thats harsh. Erickson gave almost as many HRs as K's last year. OP isnt that bad.

2006-06-08 10:21:13
468.   still bevens
Some part of it has to be mental tho.. or maybe OP is just angry all the time. No matter what he was doing yesterday Odalis was upset about it. Give up 5 hits in a row - angry. Hit a weak bunt - angry. Its also more pronounced when the defense lets him down.
2006-06-08 10:36:23
469.   Sam DC
Tom Boswell (admittedly in an internet only column) sings the praises of OPS. http://tinyurl.com/o9adg
2006-06-08 10:36:36
470.   Sam DC
Tom Boswell (admittedly in an internet only column) sings the praises of OPS. http://tinyurl.com/o9adg
2006-06-08 10:37:32
471.   Sam DC
Oops.
2006-06-08 10:45:21
472.   Nagman
It seemed during one of Honeycutt's visits to the mound OP was chirping pretty hard at Martin, repeating something over and over, at which point Honeycutt sorta clapped his hands between them as if to say "Let's go".
2006-06-08 11:00:25
473.   still bevens
I also noticed some miscommunication between OP and Martin during a couple of bad pitches. I hope OP gets his business straightened out at some point.. Also with regards to last nights game, I think it was somewhat of a mistake to have Guzman and Kemp bat 4-5. It was pretty much a black hole.
2006-06-08 11:06:02
474.   Dark Horse
473-I agree that was an...adventurous choice. Ideally for now, Kemp should hit 6th, and Guzman should be sent down to Vegas before his trade value drops any further.
2006-06-08 11:57:07
475.   Fallout
High praise for Matt Kemp as reported in the LA Times Dodgers Report.
>>>Manager Grady Little said he envisioned the rookie outfielder eventually settling into a role as "about as good a No. 3 hitter as you'll ever see. I feel comfortable with that kid anywhere on that lineup card, to tell you the truth." …<<<
2006-06-08 12:30:32
476.   JoeyP
Wow. The Braves announcer compared Kemp to Pujols. Who knows? Stranger things have happened.
2006-06-08 13:07:50
477.   ToyCannon
BA has a nice article on Billingsly but it is a pay service so I can't link but I will post some snippetts which I thought were interesting:

[Once the story gets around that growing up Billingsley learned about pitching from studying baseball cards, the sales of cards could soar.

"I learned how to throw most of my pitches by looking at the cards of Nolan Ryan and Roger Clemens. I got the motion to throw the knuckle curve and the grip to throw a changeup and curveball," Billingsley said. "You'd be surprised how much you could learn just by looking at baseball cards."]

[Las Vegas 51s manager Jerry Royster has called Billingsley "the most mature 21-year-old I've ever seen. His combination of command and maturity, you don't get to see that very often in young pitchers."]

[Billingsley has seen his share of adversity--and then some. By the time Chad was 8, his father Jim was battling cancer. By the time he was a freshman at Defiance (Ohio) High, his father suffered a stroke. Jim was put on disability from his supervisor's job at the local General Motors plant and had to go through chemotherapy.

"Seeing him after his chemo treatments broke my heart, but also showed me how much heart he had," Billingsley said. "He went to my brother's (Shaun) junior high football games or went out to the backyard and play catch with me. He never let the pain show because he didn't want to scare us. He just kept on fighting and never let it get him down. That's what I learned from him, and it's still with me to this day."]

["I still think about those days. I have wonderful memories of the hours and hours of playing catch in the backyard with my dad. No matter what may happen in the future, those will forever be some of my greatest memories," Billingsley said. "I remember sometimes I didn't want to be out there because I wanted to watch TV or play video games, but that feeling usually didn't last long. I'd just remember how close it came to those memories never happening because of my dad's ailments."]

It goes on to talk about a football injury that ended his gridiron career and luckily for us made him focus on baseball. He had a ruptured spleen and spent a week in the hospital. It is a very long and great article and I recommend it to everyone if they have a BA account. Wish I could post the whole thing but even these snippets are probably out of bounds but hey, he is our golden boy.

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.