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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

No Pitcher Is Better Than Some
2006-06-11 08:33
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

On-the-money quote from Grady Little passed along by Kevin Pearson of the Press-Enterprise:

If (Eric) Gagne is put on the DL and replaced on the 25-man roster by (Jeff) Kent, that would leave the Dodgers with 11 pitchers on the roster.

"If they are the right people, I wouldn't mind going with nine," Little said.

* * *

Brett Tomko, who was hammered again Saturday, expressed confusion that opponents are taking advantage when his location is off.

"I feel like I'm making good pitches," a shellshocked Tomko told Tony Jackson of the Daily News. "But I feel like when I make a mistake, I'm not getting away with anything."

In other words, Tomko is wanting his mistakes to be forgiven. In the words of Vin Scully, "Aren't we all?"

* * *

The Dodgers announced the following draft picks have signed: "Bryan Morris, the club's second first-round pick (No. 26 overall) is the highest Dodger draft choice to sign so far. Preston Mattingly (No. 31 overall) also signed last night, as did Kyle Smit (fifth round), Justin Fuller (11th round), Michael Rivera (17th round), Matthew Berezay (21st round), John Martin (24th), Esteban Lopez (25th) and Joseph Jones, an 18th-rounder who is the son of Dodger scout Hank Jones."

* * *

Pearson adds that Kenny Lofton is scheduled for a day off today. With J.D. Drew likely to rest his Saturday injury, a Joel Guzman-Matt Kemp-Andre Ethier outfield and five-rookie lineup could happen. But it probably won't.

Guzman himself is questionable after getting hit by a pitch Saturday.

Today's Game

Comments (506)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-11 08:55:15
1.   Eric Enders
It seems to me that the Dodgers are trying to remove the Hochevar egg from their face by signing everybody quickly this year. Morris and Mattingly both might have been expected to take a long time to sign -- Morris because he dickered around with the Devil Rays last year, and Mattingly because he had the bargaining chip of possibly attending Tennessee.

Kershaw has also been quoted as saying that he expects to sign right away. After last year, this stuff makes me happy.

I wonder where they'll start these guys? My guess is that Morris will be sent to Columbus, and that Mattingly, who's apparently rawer than a steak at Jackrabbit Slims, will go to the GCL when they start playing on June 20.

Kershaw - maybe Ogden?

2006-06-11 08:56:12
2.   Eric Enders
Also, repeat from the last thread, but I'm hoping the five-rookie lineup doesn't happen because I'm growing tired of Grady's master plan to ride Martin into the ground.
2006-06-11 09:01:16
3.   Eric Enders
1 I guess another thing to consider is that the Mattingly family is not exactly on public assistance, so it would have been pretty pointless for the kid to hold out for another $50,000 or $100,000.
2006-06-11 09:04:48
4.   Eric Enders
From the Press-Enterprise article that Jon linked:

"Kemp has a helpful teacher. Kenny Lofton, one of baseball's most accomplished center fielders, has been helping the rookie. The two often hang out together.

'He's taught me a lot about how to play the outfield,' Kemp said. 'He's one of the first people I go to, and so far, I've learned a lot.'"
------------

Hopefully Kenny hasn't been teaching Kemp his nifty trick of running in when the ball is hit over his head, and running back when the ball is hit in front of him.

2006-06-11 09:07:00
5.   Bob Timmermann
It's not like he's asking Lonnie Smith for fielding tips though.
2006-06-11 09:46:12
6.   Steve
If Scott Erickson is pitching for the Yankees, is he doing lessons on the Scott Erickson Defense by tele-conference?
2006-06-11 10:01:20
7.   JoeyP
but I'm hoping the five-rookie lineup doesn't happen because I'm growing tired of Grady's master plan to ride Martin into the ground.

I agree but the Dodgers are 1-11 when Sandy Alomar bats twice or more in a game. I think they can ride Martin till Navarro's back at least. Once Navarro's back, they can split time and keep each other fresh.

2006-06-11 10:01:44
8.   tjshere
Todays lineup:

Furcal, SS
Cruz, RF
Nomar, 1B
Kemp, CF
Aybar, 3B
Ethier, LF
Martinez, 2B
Martin, C
Lowe, P

No mention as to whether the lack of JtD in the game is wrist-related or not.

2006-06-11 10:04:59
9.   tjshere
2

With an off day last Thursday and another one coming up tomorrow I would think Martin would be OK to start all 3 games this weekend. Especially since the weather isn't all that warm.

2006-06-11 10:05:48
10.   bhsportsguy
1 What egg are you implying, last time I checked, aside from Scott Boras and Luke Hochevar, where has there been any other critics of the negotiations.

While I agree that the Dodgers are going to try and sign their top picks as soon as possible, that is more to get them ready for their short season leagues, Ogden for instance starts in the next week or so.

Ogden would seem a likely destination for all three top picks, Chad, Scott Elbert, Greg Miller, Blake Dewitt among others all started there. Some, Sergio Pedroza and James Loney did get promoted from Rookie ball to Columbus and Vero Beach but most stay for the full season.

2006-06-11 10:06:27
11.   D4P
Two things.

1. Not sure this is really "news," but the Dodgers have "entered the fray" for SWAGGER.

http://tinyurl.com/r87vl

2. The "Inside the Dodgers" blog had a plug yesterday for "An Inconvenient Truth," the movie on global warming made by the Father of the Internet. I was (pleasantly) surprised to see such a thing on the official Dodgers blog.

2006-06-11 10:09:17
12.   LAT
EE hits for the rare new post cycle.

I don't think Grady would run Martin into the ground intentionally. Look how carful he is being with Drew, Nomar and Lofton. Grady's comments about these guys suggest that he recognizes that to give them a day or two now will serve them well in the long run. However, whether Martin would tell Grady that he needs a rest is another matter.

2006-06-11 10:10:56
13.   LAT
BTW, that is not meant as a knock on Martin, its just that sports culture does not lend itself to youg guys admitting thie are hurt or tired.
2006-06-11 10:17:10
14.   Bob Timmermann
Eric had a time zone advantage and I think the pages are caching a bit weirdly today.
2006-06-11 10:18:14
15.   D4P
Bob is a tough one to impress.
2006-06-11 10:21:05
16.   Bob Timmermann
I have very high standards.
2006-06-11 10:26:15
17.   GoBears
From the last thread, and apropos of 4 above,

9. Bob Timmermann: Drew had to leave the game with a stiff knee. It wasn't strategy. It was necessity. Somebody had to play right field or else the fly balls hit there would roll all the way to the wall.

You mean like all the balls hit to CF do? Lofton is a pleasant surprise at the plate (batting average-wise), but he's much worse than I expected defensively. Once the BA collapses to the expected .270 range, he'll be completely done. I hope Kemp can learn via the "do what I say, not what I do" method.

2006-06-11 10:29:07
18.   D4P
17
After 6 consecutive years of a Rate2 value greater than 100 (and a career value of 101) in centerfield, Lofton is at 95 this year.
2006-06-11 10:37:21
19.   D4P
Speaking of Rate2, it has been pointed out that the Dodgers record with Martin behind the plate is much better than with Alomar behind the plate. While most Sabre-types don't appear to have much confidence in things like "catchers' ERA," at the very least, it doesn't seem outlandish to think that the catchers' defensive abilities might have some impact on the pitcher's ERA. With that in mind, note the following values:

Martin's Rate2: 121
Alomar's Rate2: 71

That's a pretty large gap, no?

2006-06-11 10:44:00
20.   GoBears
I can't believe it's that high, but even so, that's about turning fly balls into fly outs.

Granted, Coors Field is huge, but how many times yesterday alone did Lofton run a LONG way to get to a ball that had already dropped behind him?

That's something that do defensive metric can measure. Maybe those balls were hits no matter who was in CF, but Lofton turns them into triples with his terrible jumps, terrible routes, and wet noodle arm. Jason Jennings scoring from 1st?! Jason Jennings?! I'm surprised the batter didn't lap him.

Very odd to me that Lofton's speed shows up on the bases, but not so much in the OF.

2006-06-11 10:47:57
21.   D4P
20
Maybe he runs better on dirt than on grass...
2006-06-11 10:49:51
22.   Blu2
(11) Why is everyone so sure the Dodgers are interested in Soriano as a 3 month rental, or even as an outfielder? If I remember correctly, his preferance is second base. And dang if it don't look like the Dodgers might have a need of one pretty soon. Kent may or may not regain his abilities this year; if not, it's not inconceivable that he may retire next year or the club may make a good deal on him to someone else, the Giants for instance. Soriano sounds like a fit to me...
2006-06-11 10:51:58
23.   Bob Timmermann
Soriano has backed off on his insistence on playing second base. It didn't take long for him to figure out that many more teams were interested in him as a left fielder than a second baseman and he did the math in his head.

LF = $$$$$$$
2B = $$$$$$

2006-06-11 10:53:13
24.   Eric Enders
22 It's relatively inconceivable (cue Wallace Shawn voice) that they'd go after a second baseman when they just signed a second baseman to a lucrative multiyear deal a couple of months ago.

Also, Kent was starting to pick it up before he got hurt. I think they're looking at Soriano as an outfielder, which is equally nonsensical considering there's not really enough playing time to go around for the outfielders we have already.

Any Soriano deal would have to be put under the category of "done more for PR reasons than baseball reasons."

2006-06-11 10:56:09
25.   D4P
I've never been too excited about acquiring Alf, primarily because of his propensity to K much more than he BBs, and his not coincidental low OBP. Plus, he doesn't appear to be a very good 2nd baseman. But his offensive stats this year are noticeably different. Compare, for example, 2002 and 2006.

2002
23 BBs, 157 Ks

2006
23 BBs, 55 Ks

His career high in BBs is 38, and he's already more than halfway to that, less than halfway into the season. On the negative side, he has only managed to get hit by 2 pitches thus far...He has to work on that skill...

2006-06-11 10:56:37
26.   Eric Enders
14 Hey, if it's late enough for Jon, it should be late enough for you guys.

I was almost going to make a fifth post; then it hit me that making five posts in a row is sort of the online equivalent of dementedly talking to yourself on the subway.

2006-06-11 10:57:42
27.   D4P
Inside-the-park HR alert:

Nick Swisher has not left building.

2006-06-11 11:00:10
28.   GoBears
19: Tiny sample for Alomar, no? I mean, I certainly believe that Martin is better defensively, but if it's a small sample, that means it's statistically insignificant. So not "take with a grain of salt," so much as "meaningless comparison."
2006-06-11 11:05:02
29.   GoBears
25. Re Soriano, D4P said:

Plus, he doesn't appear to be a very good 2nd baseman.

I nominate this for understatement of the week. Holy moly - Soriano is execrable at 2nd base. He HAS to be a top-10 hitter (which is he only in bursts) to be a net contributor, because his defense is off-the-charts bad. Put it this way - he made Jeter look good by comparison.

2006-06-11 11:05:31
30.   D4P
28
But the sample size is only relevant if we're trying to use his performance thus far to predict his future performance, right? I'm talking about the impact that his performance thus far has had on the games in which he has played. I'm not trying to generalize from a sample to a population: in this case, the population is "the games in which Alomar has played thus far." To the extent that the Rate2 stat is meaningful and reliable, Alomar has been horrendous thus far, while Martin has been great. My point is not to say that that trend will continue, but merely to point out that their performance thus far may help partially explain why the team has performed better under Martin than under Alomar.
2006-06-11 11:05:55
31.   JoeyP
27. Anyone watching on TV? How did Swisher hit an ISPHR with Johnny Damon patrolling Cf?
2006-06-11 11:07:00
32.   JoeyP
The real Shawn Chacon apparently hasnt left the building either.
2006-06-11 11:13:43
33.   regfairfield
I really, really hate Marco Scutaro.
2006-06-11 11:21:47
34.   JoeyP
Scutaro is "clutch".
Apparently, even in Oakland some baseball traditions die a slow death.
2006-06-11 11:25:25
35.   Bob Timmermann
31
Cabrera and Damon got tangled up in left-center and it took a while for Damon to get up to get to the ball.

And then Damon was throwing it in.

2006-06-11 11:27:21
36.   JoeyP
Nomar and Scott Rolen may end up having a tight race all year for Comeback POY.
2006-06-11 11:29:19
37.   MollyKnight
31. Leche Cabrera punched Johnny Damon in the face right he was about to catch the ball.

On a related note, Damon just scored on a ball hit over Swisher's head.

It's all coming full circle.

2006-06-11 11:32:20
38.   JoeyP
David Ross just hit his 7th HR in 70ABs.
2006-06-11 11:39:44
39.   confucius
36 If Nomar wins the batting title he'll probably get it. All I really want however, is Nomar to stay healthy.
2006-06-11 11:39:57
40.   D4P
38
At least the Dodgers got 75,000 bucks for him.
2006-06-11 11:46:02
41.   natepurcell
can i get a link to the Mattingly signing. I saw the Morris signing but not Mattinglys.
2006-06-11 11:47:09
42.   Daniel Zappala
Maybe the Dodgers can get rid of Lofton and sign Soriano. Soriano in left, Kemp in Center, Drew in right looks good to me, with Ethier and Cruz filling in off the bench.
2006-06-11 11:51:07
43.   confucius
42 I would go for that. Or maybe Drew in center.

Horacio Ramirez just got hit in the head with a line drive. The ball went all the way into right field so hopefully it was just a glancing blow.

2006-06-11 11:52:59
44.   D4P
42
How can Kemp be in center after he was traded for Alf...?
2006-06-11 11:57:45
45.   confucius
44 They wouldn't trade Kemp for anyone.
2006-06-11 12:02:46
46.   Steve
Thanks for that, A4M
2006-06-11 12:06:01
47.   D4P
46
Yeah, I've already been planning my "A4" screen names. A4Matt, A4Chad, A4???
2006-06-11 12:08:50
48.   Bob Timmermann
Cristian4M
2006-06-11 12:10:38
49.   Steve
Making such suggestions alone should be treasonous.
2006-06-11 12:10:50
50.   D4P
Royce4C
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-11 12:11:27
51.   Bob Timmermann
49
You need two witnesses to attest to that in open court.
2006-06-11 12:13:16
52.   Bob Timmermann
I guess it didn't hurt that much.
2006-06-11 12:13:23
53.   Icaros
Bison, M.
2006-06-11 12:14:09
54.   Steve
A4I
2006-06-11 12:16:32
55.   confucius
54 you wish.
2006-06-11 12:17:21
56.   al bundy
52 - or if it did hurt, it feels a lot better now.

41 - I don't know of a link but I recall reading Mattingly signed on the day of or the day after the draft. He just wanted to go play ball and to hell with college. Can't say I blame him.

2006-06-11 12:18:06
57.   JoeyP
Kemp should play everyday.
Yada yada yada....
2006-06-11 12:20:44
58.   spacebrother
There goes the no-hitter.
2006-06-11 12:24:13
59.   Bob Timmermann
It's going to be another long day.
2006-06-11 12:25:36
60.   spacebrother
Lowe is generally good right out of the box, and this time he's not, so you're probably right.
2006-06-11 12:26:54
61.   D4P
There goes the no-runner.
2006-06-11 12:27:31
62.   JoeyP
Todd Helton has become Shawn Green.
2006-06-11 12:29:54
63.   spacebrother
Derek Lowe has become Brett Tomko.
2006-06-11 12:31:10
64.   D4P
Brett Tomko has become Brett Tomko.
2006-06-11 12:31:25
65.   Icaros
Lowe's looking great.
2006-06-11 12:33:40
66.   Bob Timmermann
Walkoff, 2-out, 3-run homer for Oritz in Boston.

Red Sox win first game 5-4 over Texas.

2006-06-11 12:33:41
67.   thinkblue0
"Bill" "ings" "ley"
"Bill" "ings" "ley"
2006-06-11 12:33:58
68.   D4P
Can't blame Lowe. Not his fault the balls put in play were hits. Who's to say they couldn't have been outs instead?
2006-06-11 12:35:52
69.   spacebrother
A rose by any other name...
2006-06-11 12:36:12
70.   JoeyP
Lowe threw 30 pitches in the first.
2006-06-11 12:36:28
71.   thinkblue0
Who's to say they couldn't have been outs instead?

"T" "om" "ko"
"T" "om" "ko"

2006-06-11 12:37:45
72.   spacebrother
Yes, I saw the sarcasm. It needed frosting.
2006-06-11 12:41:54
73.   JoeyP
After making Lowe throw 30 in the first, that was a horrible 2nd inning hitting approach from the Rox.
2006-06-11 12:44:20
74.   Steve
Who cares about pitching? We need SWAGGER!
2006-06-11 12:44:41
75.   al bundy
and OP has become Scott Erickson...
2006-06-11 12:46:50
76.   Gen3Blue
I like the mix of vets and youngsters.
Without Drew, Kent and Lofton( and Mueller) its a little uncomfortable.
2006-06-11 12:49:58
77.   gpellamjr
76 I still think I'd rather see Aybar at 3rd than Mueller when he comes back.

It seems to me that if I lived in Denver and only heard baseball being called by the Rockies' TV guys, I would wonder how the Rockies don't win 120 games a year.

2006-06-11 12:51:06
78.   al bundy
actually it doesn't look like Mattingly's been signed or if he has it's a well kept secret. I've found plenty of draft day stories that indicate he is not going to fulfill his commitment to Tennessee but apparently no ink yet.
2006-06-11 12:51:26
79.   natepurcell
so is there a link to where Mattingly has signed?
2006-06-11 12:52:32
80.   sanchez101
I dont care what rate1,2 or 3 says, Garciaparra is a good firstbaseman
2006-06-11 12:53:46
81.   JoeyP
I'm more comfortable when Lofton/Mueller are on the DL.

DLowe gets a little luck.

2006-06-11 12:57:33
82.   JoeyP
KEMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2006-06-11 12:58:02
83.   gpellamjr
Huson is the worst announcer in baseball history. Kemp is the best hitter in baseball history.
2006-06-11 12:59:43
84.   JoeyP
Kemp might be the best 21yr old that has ever played for the LA Dodgers.
2006-06-11 13:00:09
85.   sanchez101
ive run out of superlatives for Matt Kemp
2006-06-11 13:00:55
86.   natepurcell
when are pitchers going to learn? they are so stubborn.
2006-06-11 13:01:09
87.   al bundy
In the history of modern baseball, who's the best 21 yr old?
2006-06-11 13:01:44
88.   Rob M
When's the last time Kemp looked bad at the plate? Has he had a bad AB since his first game?
2006-06-11 13:01:50
89.   Vishal
kemp is amazing. just, wow.
2006-06-11 13:01:52
90.   JoeyP
Kemp on his way back to the dugout, after his 2nd HR of the game:

"Say Grady. What was that on friday nite about 'arm angles'?"

2006-06-11 13:02:45
91.   Rob M
I think Ted Williams was a pretty solid 21 year old.

So was Doc Gooden and Fernando Valenzuela.

2006-06-11 13:03:06
92.   natepurcell
Kemp is pretty good, he has more plate discipline, he could be up in david wright catagorey.
2006-06-11 13:03:16
93.   D4P
Bison with the flashy, "look at me" HR.
Lucille II with the unselfish RBI grounder.
2006-06-11 13:03:24
94.   regfairfield
I refuse to get excited about a player with 40 at bats.

With that said, KEMP!

2006-06-11 13:04:19
95.   Bob Timmermann
Ty Cobb had an OPS+ of 169 at age 21.
So did Rogers Hornsby.

I don't think Matt Kemp is that good.

2006-06-11 13:05:29
96.   gpellamjr
1. Matt Kemp is 100 feet tall...
2006-06-11 13:05:39
97.   JoeyP
Kemp really does remind me of Pujols if you just take their limited minor league numbers, and then their first month or so in the major leagues.
2006-06-11 13:05:41
98.   Gen3Blue
Damn Rocky announcers are saying 4 runs won't hold up in this heat and point out Lowe has 49 pitches already.
The worst part is I find myself almost agreeing.
2006-06-11 13:05:46
99.   al bundy
91 - that's some pretty stiff competition.
2006-06-11 13:07:28
100.   Bob Timmermann
The Age 21 All-Stars

http://tinyurl.com/lhdgr

Kemp needs a lot more at bats and a lot more success to get in to this club. These guys are pretty good to say the least.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-11 13:07:28
101.   Rob M
Ted Williams had an OPS of 1.036 as a 21 year old. He had 145 RBI as a 20 year old rookie.
2006-06-11 13:08:18
102.   spacebrother
Martin gets some respect. Already.
2006-06-11 13:08:56
103.   Bob Timmermann
In the words of Alan Greenspan, I should warn against "irrational exuberance" in the Matt Kemp market.
2006-06-11 13:09:30
104.   JoeyP
Oakland sweeps the Yanks.
2006-06-11 13:10:08
105.   scooplew
Joe Dimaggio's rookie year at the age of 21 --
Batted .323, OBP .352, Slug .576.
29 HR, 125 RBI
24 BB, 39 K
2006-06-11 13:10:09
106.   regfairfield
102 Or, the Rockies would rather face D-Lowe than Kemp with first base open.
2006-06-11 13:10:24
107.   D4P
103
With his value at irrationally high levels, let's trade him now for proven SWAGGER.
2006-06-11 13:10:35
108.   Rob M
I'd be ecstatitic if Kemp could become David Wright or Miguel Cabrera. Comparing him to Pujols is crazy talk.
2006-06-11 13:10:39
109.   natepurcell
103

i agree. once pitcher stop challenging him middle of the plate in and he continues to hit well, then we should start getting super super giddy.

2006-06-11 13:11:10
110.   be2ween
Dodger Blue is the new black.
Kemp is the new DiMaggio.
Martin is the new Campanella.
2006-06-11 13:11:17
111.   spacebrother
Of course. Still, it's something for a rookie.
2006-06-11 13:11:29
112.   Rob M
Don't dislocate that shoulder!!
2006-06-11 13:11:42
113.   natepurcell
108

david wright and miguel cabrera are basically one tiny notch below albert pujols.

2006-06-11 13:12:29
114.   Vishal
rockies announcer: "i was about to enshrine him in cooperstown, but he dropped it".
2006-06-11 13:12:49
115.   al bundy
Huston Street just got his 3 consecutive save against the Yankees in their 3 game series. He has 4 saves in 4 days.
2006-06-11 13:13:13
116.   be2ween
104 God, I love Oakland.
2006-06-11 13:14:15
117.   regfairfield
Amazing how Oakland can win when everything doesn't go wrong for them.
2006-06-11 13:14:59
118.   JoeyP
Cabrera's probably a good comp. He came up with the Marlins as a 20yr old and still only hit 12HRs in 314ABs. His rookie line: .268/.325/.468 in 314ABs.

Kemp's doing better than that so far.

2006-06-11 13:16:20
119.   Linkmeister
Bob, your old friend Arky Vaughan appears on that 21-year-old list; did you notice?
2006-06-11 13:16:22
120.   Rob M
113

you think it's just a tiny notch? I'd call it a regular-sized notch. Even Griffey and ARod didn't start their careers at Pujols' level, all things considered.

2006-06-11 13:16:38
121.   natepurcell
dodgers blog said kemp's family drove out from OK for the game. I'm sure they are happy.
2006-06-11 13:17:23
122.   Jon Weisman
The Mattingly signing was announced in the Dodger press notes today.
2006-06-11 13:17:35
123.   be2ween
Today's Times makes reference to a guy that worked w/ Grady Little during 'Bull Durham'. (Grady was a technical consultant, and first year manager of the Durham Bulls.) He stated that 'Grady is smarter than he wants anyone to THINK he is.'

Thus, Grady Little is the new Jessica Simpson.

2006-06-11 13:17:53
124.   Bob Timmermann
In 2003, Gagne had two stretches of four saves in four games and another stretch of six saves in six games (with one day off)
2006-06-11 13:18:00
125.   CanuckDodger
When Adam Dunn came up to the majors, from the Double A Southern League, at age 21 in 2001, he hit .262/.371/.578 for the rest of the season, with 19 homers.

When Miguel Cabrera came up to the majors, from the Double A Southern League, at age 20 in 2003, he hit .268/.325/.468 for the rest of the season, with 12 homers in 314 AB's.

After starting the season in the Double A Southern League, at age 21, Kemp is already half way to Cabrera's rookie year MLB home run total, in a very small percentage of the number of major league AB's Cabrera had.

2006-06-11 13:18:13
126.   JoeyP
The Pujols comp is just based on each players minor league numbers. Pujols only had 1 minor league season, and that was in Single A as a 20yr old (if you believe his age). Kemp as a 20yr old did just about as well as Pujols.

Pujols was a guy that just came out of nowhere.

2006-06-11 13:19:38
127.   natepurcell
122

thanks Jon!

2006-06-11 13:19:55
128.   al bundy
Can we all agree that if Kemp hits a 3rd consec hr today that he's destined for greatness?
2006-06-11 13:20:51
129.   Bob Timmermann
128
No, I wouldn't agree to that.
2006-06-11 13:21:31
130.   JoeyP
Pujols rookie year as a 21yr old in 2001.
.329/.403/.610 37HRs 130RBIs
2006-06-11 13:21:35
131.   Rob M
That was brilliant Jose.
2006-06-11 13:21:42
132.   Bob Timmermann
That CS is going to upset the delicate tempers here.
2006-06-11 13:21:43
133.   natepurcell
way to go cruz, you idiot.
2006-06-11 13:22:36
134.   JoeyP
Little, just sit there next time.
Dont do anything.
2006-06-11 13:22:42
135.   Icaros
Even on the bench, Kenny's spirit guides his teammates.
2006-06-11 13:22:52
136.   spacebrother
Why do you steal with 2 out and a hitter up? Is there a situation where this is allowable?
2006-06-11 13:23:56
137.   natepurcell
136

with kemp, cruz at first base is already in scoring position.

2006-06-11 13:26:29
138.   sanchez101
I think Jeff Francouer is the most obvious comparison to what Matt Kemp is doing right now. I dont think that's irrational exuberance. The DiMaggio comparisons are over the top, I dont think there will ever be another one like him again.
2006-06-11 13:28:32
139.   Jon Weisman
136 - There are plenty of such situations, just that that wasn't one of them.
2006-06-11 13:28:39
140.   JoeyP
Lowe/Penny are really carrying the pitching staff.
2006-06-11 13:28:49
141.   Bob Timmermann
There were better players at age 21 than DiMaggio, such as Cobb, Hornsby, Foxx, and Williams.

I am firmly in the "Joe DiMaggio was overrated" camp.

He was very good, but the reason everyone thinks he was so good was that DiMaggio made it a point to tell everybody how good he was.

Fortuantely, there has already been a negative biography written about DiMaggio to save me the trouble of a Frank Robinson-like harangue.

2006-06-11 13:30:19
142.   Rob M
DiMaggio wasn't even as good as Mantle, for that matter. Ted Williams was notably better.
2006-06-11 13:30:37
143.   spacebrother
1) A catcher with no pickoff move.
2) A pitcher with a slow delivery.
3) A comfortable lead.
4) Kenny Lofton is on base.

...for example

I guess I wasn't thinking becuase the move was so stupid.

2006-06-11 13:30:47
144.   natepurcell
from the press notes, i guess the nickname for the kids is "dodger diaper dandies"
2006-06-11 13:31:36
145.   Bob Timmermann
Catchers have pickoff moves?
2006-06-11 13:32:14
146.   spacebrother
OK, "a bad record of throws to 2nd."
2006-06-11 13:32:30
147.   Vishal
well, they do sometimes throw behind a batter and try to pick people off first or third.
2006-06-11 13:33:30
148.   Rob M
I love Aybar's approach at the plate.
2006-06-11 13:33:56
149.   al bundy
146 - just go ahead and say it: "Piazza or similar behind the plate."
2006-06-11 13:34:11
150.   JoeyP
JAWFA
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-06-11 13:34:16
151.   ddger
140 Let's not forget Sele. He has been amazing so far.
2006-06-11 13:34:21
152.   natepurcell
Aybar is so steady and consistent, what a nice piece to the 2008 world championship team.
2006-06-11 13:35:18
153.   sanchez101
141. when you hit more homeruns than you strikeout, in a homeball park that tough on righthanded hitters, and are the central part of probably the greatest baseball dynasty in history, in the biggest city in the world, AND date Marylin Monroe, you cant help but be overrated. He's like Vladimir Guerrerro, Andruw Jones, Derek Jeter, and Barry Zito all rolled into one.
2006-06-11 13:35:42
154.   ddger
Is Grady batting Cruz because of his ability to draw walks? It's certainly not his batting average.
2006-06-11 13:35:44
155.   Rob M
Where is Aybar gonna play next year? 3B? I'm kinda disappointed that Kent is signed for 2007 with all these kids pushing for playing time.
2006-06-11 13:35:50
156.   Vishal
darn. that should've been at least 1st and 3rd with one out. nice play by carroll.
2006-06-11 13:36:35
157.   JoeyP
I'm just wondering how Lowe could give up so many HRs last year, but this year he doesnt give up any. All of his other ratios are pretty much the same.
2006-06-11 13:38:01
158.   Vishal
the rockies announcers are now making the very insightful observation that carroll is a "baseball player". silly me, i thought he was a cricketer.
2006-06-11 13:39:41
159.   Bob Timmermann
Carroll has a nice googlie.
2006-06-11 13:42:09
160.   gpellamjr
The Dodgers have no chance of winning this game. The Rockies clearly have them where they want them. I wouldn't know this, but the Rox's announcers have informed me that it's hot and Lowe is sweating.
2006-06-11 13:43:03
161.   Bob Timmermann
Lowe should have tried a googlie.
2006-06-11 13:43:06
162.   JoeyP
Lowe's sinker must not be sinking much today. He's got a 5-9 GB/FB out ratio.
2006-06-11 13:43:10
163.   gpellamjr
Darn, I was hoping that ball would go over the fence, now they have a rally going. (Has this thing gone too far?)
2006-06-11 13:45:15
164.   Andrew Shimmin
163- There's no such thing as too far. Well, maybe if Bob says googlie a few more times, there will be. But the rally-killing HR is an evergreen.
2006-06-11 13:46:27
165.   ddger
I really hope we don't see the best lefthanded reliever today.
2006-06-11 13:46:44
166.   regfairfield
154 Heaven forfend.
2006-06-11 13:47:49
167.   Bob Timmermann
Lowe should try throwing a chinaman.

Although the only pitchers on the Dodgers staff who can truly thrown a chinaman are Perez, and, appropriately, Kuo.

2006-06-11 13:47:57
168.   Vishal
okay, i'll bite. what's a googlie? don't make me google the googlie.
2006-06-11 13:48:17
169.   Bob Timmermann
Oh yeah, Beimel can throw a chinaman too.
2006-06-11 13:48:46
170.   JoeyP
Good hook for Lowe.
He looks done.
2006-06-11 13:49:11
171.   Bob Timmermann
And so our Chinese readers don't think I'm being a racist:

http://tinyurl.com/njzoa

2006-06-11 13:49:48
172.   JoeyP
Grits sure does like taking out his best hitters mid game doesnt he?

Lofton in for Kemp.
Barf.

2006-06-11 13:50:15
173.   Bob Timmermann
168
The link in 171 will teach you about the googlie too.
2006-06-11 13:50:30
174.   gpellamjr
171 Nice article. You're still a racist.
2006-06-11 13:50:46
175.   regfairfield
172 Lofton in for Ethier, Kemp moves to left.
2006-06-11 13:50:50
176.   Bob Timmermann
Sorry, it's correctly spelled "googly".

I will not bring it up again.

2006-06-11 13:50:53
177.   Vishal
lofton in for ethier. kemp to left.
2006-06-11 13:51:07
178.   gpellamjr
172 Lofton in for Ethier, not such a terrible sin, it's still stupid.
2006-06-11 13:52:05
179.   Bob Timmermann
Mets already ahead of Arizona in the 1st, 1-0 and still batting.
2006-06-11 13:52:41
180.   JoeyP
Barmes has seen 6 pitches in 3ABs.
Maybe thats why he's hitting .209
2006-06-11 13:53:55
181.   Vishal
ahh. i asked, and both my parents were familiar with the googly.
2006-06-11 13:55:12
182.   Vishal
btw, bob: chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature. asian-american, please.
2006-06-11 13:55:13
183.   natepurcell
eugoogly?
2006-06-11 13:57:46
184.   sanchez101
178. Lofton has been the 3rd most productive hitter on the team, by VORP, its not stupid, its just unpopular around here.
2006-06-11 13:58:41
185.   JoeyP
A day is not complete without a Big Lebowski reference.
Well played Vishal.
2006-06-11 14:00:07
186.   al bundy
google chinese cricket and you'll come up with an article about singing insects. I just thought you'd wanna know.
2006-06-11 14:00:59
187.   Bob Timmermann
3-0 Mets after half an inning.
2006-06-11 14:01:09
188.   spacebrother
Oh, here's one of the situations I mentioned.
2006-06-11 14:01:29
189.   spacebrother
...wasted.
2006-06-11 14:01:29
190.   JoeyP
Not sure why Cook pays so much attention to Lofton. Even if Lofton were to steal 2nd, just walk Furcal and face Cruz. Cruz cant hit right handers, and the Dodgers dont have any lefties on the bench (assuming Drew isnt gonna play).
2006-06-11 14:02:45
191.   natepurcell
laroche is heating up, 3-3 today with a double. BA up to .306

maybe its time for a promotion.

2006-06-11 14:03:09
192.   Bob Timmermann
But I really needed that rug. It ties together the whole room.
2006-06-11 14:05:34
193.   JoeyP
Are the Mets making a statement that says they are the best team in the NL?

Beating the Dbax/Dodgers 6/7 on the road is a nice achievement.

2006-06-11 14:07:36
194.   sanchez101
191. have you heard anything on Orenduff, every game that goes by without him gets me more worried?
2006-06-11 14:07:58
195.   ddger
191 Maybe he'll get promoted to Las Vegas soon. I don't think he will get much playing time in LA since Kent is coming back Tuesday and Guzman will most likely be sent down.
2006-06-11 14:08:14
196.   natepurcell
194

i assume his elbow is "sore".

2006-06-11 14:10:11
197.   natepurcell
this batter is annoying.
2006-06-11 14:10:58
198.   sanchez101
196. oh, that makes me feel much better
2006-06-11 14:12:36
199.   sanchez101
i think its time to see mr. splitty
2006-06-11 14:12:37
200.   ddger
How fast is Broxton's fastball today? Yesterday, Kuo was throwing 94 to 95 consistently, the fastest he has thrown this year I believe.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-06-11 14:12:37
201.   Bob Timmermann
If Russ Ortiz keeps his current pitching, the DBacks are going to plant HGH in his home and try to invalidate his contract too.
2006-06-11 14:13:15
202.   spacebrother
197
--and look at his ghastly picture on Gameday.
2006-06-11 14:13:42
203.   natepurcell
200

92-95 today for broxton.

2006-06-11 14:14:29
204.   natepurcell
oops he just hit 97.
2006-06-11 14:15:26
205.   Andrew Shimmin
Are the D'backs going to get away with not paying Grimsley? Doesn't seem like the sort of precedent the MLBPA would be content to permit.
2006-06-11 14:15:53
206.   natepurcell
and another 97 for a swing and miss strike 3.
2006-06-11 14:16:30
207.   JoeyP
2 good ABs
2 outs for Brox.
2006-06-11 14:16:53
208.   ddger
200 Thanks, Nate.

Rockies are fouling off so many of his pitches today..

2006-06-11 14:16:57
209.   Humma Kavula
205 Not to pay him is "the moral thing to do," according to the D-Backs' brass.

It's really good to see a ballclub take the high road like that.

2006-06-11 14:16:58
210.   natepurcell
wow 98.
2006-06-11 14:17:38
211.   natepurcell
99 but sullivan hits it into left center for a double. should have went splitter there.
2006-06-11 14:17:46
212.   Bob Timmermann
205

The DBacks claim that Grimsley was "stealing" from them by cheating. There will be a grievance filed over this.

I can't imagine that the rest of the DBacks are going to like it if Grimsley gets stiffed no matter how much they might dislike him now.

The whole claim by the DBacks management is incredibly hypocritical.

2006-06-11 14:17:52
213.   ddger
I was hoping Broxton can get to Saito but his pitch count is too high.
2006-06-11 14:19:18
214.   ddger
If Broxton gets out of this inning, does Grady bring him in for 1 more inning or should he use Saito for 2 inning save. I don't really trust any other relievers.
2006-06-11 14:19:41
215.   sanchez101
id like to see broxton throw something other than his fastball, i think he's spending too much time around danys baez
2006-06-11 14:20:08
216.   spacebrother
It's Foul Ball Giveaway day at Coors.
2006-06-11 14:20:25
217.   Uncle Miltie
Bad baby Bull!
2006-06-11 14:20:41
218.   natepurcell
bad pitch choice. why throw an offspeed pitch to a hitter losing bat speed and cant catch up with your heater?
2006-06-11 14:20:47
219.   al bundy
i wonder how fast that came off of Helton's bat. Sheesh.
2006-06-11 14:21:31
220.   JoeyP
Spillsborough/Carroll should take some of the credit for that.

Even Shawn Green gets lucky from time to time.

2006-06-11 14:21:50
221.   Andrew Shimmin
I like the theory that cheating while on their team is stealing from THEM. I think it's endearing. But it doesn't seem sustainable.

Looks like the Bull might be back on mop-up duty, next week.

2006-06-11 14:22:40
222.   JoeyP
I guess Broxton is good for 25 pitches max.
2006-06-11 14:23:43
223.   Gen3Blue
Now we see what our offense is made of.Go Dodgers!
2006-06-11 14:23:48
224.   Uncle Miltie
221- we have an abudance of mop up men
2006-06-11 14:24:59
225.   natepurcell
that wasnt even a bad pitch to helton. it was a splitter below the knees. it was just a bad pitch selection. Helton doesnt have the bat speed he use too and throwing an 88 mph splitter is like a gifted wrapped present for helton after seeing 98 mph fbs where he was continually late on.
2006-06-11 14:27:16
226.   Bob Timmermann
Say somebody just asked me, "Who gave up Robin Yount's 3000th hit?"
2006-06-11 14:28:02
227.   JoeyP
Bad Cruz!

Nomar is due.

2006-06-11 14:28:03
228.   Andrew Shimmin
224- And no shortage of situations in which to use them.
2006-06-11 14:28:41
229.   Humma Kavula
226 Okay. Somebody just asked you, "Who gave up Robin Yount's 3000th hit?"

buh-DA-bup. I'll be here all week!

2006-06-11 14:31:19
230.   JoeyP
Mesa giving Kemp some respect.
Good job by Matt of taking the walk.
2006-06-11 14:32:05
231.   Andrew Shimmin
Wait, so Vin is giving Hurdle free scouting reports? Maybe he said Kemp had a fastball shaped hole in his swing.
2006-06-11 14:34:29
232.   Uncle Miltie
Kemp is listed at 6'2, but so is Todd Helton. Kemp is at least an inch taller than Helton.
2006-06-11 14:34:47
233.   Andrew Shimmin
So, when the Super Prius comes out, will owners of that treat Prius owners the way Prius owners treat non-hybrid owners? Hope you enjoyed your old second-class citizen status, Bob.

http://tinyurl.com/e88ze

2006-06-11 14:34:55
234.   JoeyP
Saenz/Martinez/Martin vs Fuentes in the 9th will have to get it done I guess.
2006-06-11 14:36:15
235.   Bob Timmermann
The Super Prius will remove the one thing that Prius owners have: a clear case of moral superiority over drivers of other vehicles.

I'm really surprised they don't push that angle in the ads.

2006-06-11 14:36:17
236.   Uncle Miltie
Oh great, we are about to be Baezed again!
2006-06-11 14:36:31
237.   natepurcell
holy crap, laroche is really on fire, he just hit his 9th homerun.

4-4 2b, hr today. wow.

2006-06-11 14:38:54
238.   Bob Timmermann
Drew instead of Saenz to pinch hit in the 9th? Fuentes is a lefty.
2006-06-11 14:38:56
239.   JoeyP
Hawpe is 4-26 in June.
Baez should be able to get Torreable/Barmes.
If there's a place to use Baez, its probably here.
2006-06-11 14:39:41
240.   ddger
234 Saenz has struck out his last 3 at bats. Let's hope he makes contact today.
2006-06-11 14:40:08
241.   Uncle Miltie
Right fielder J.D. Drew was not in Sunday's starting lineup, nursing a bad bruise to his right thigh suffered on Saturday night. Little said that Drew was available for pinch-hitting and was expected to return to the lineup Tuesday night.
238- that's exactly what I was thinking. Drew can actually get on base.
2006-06-11 14:40:46
242.   worz
Old friend Cody Ross just hit one out for Florida to put them up 6-2 over the Padres in the 5th!
2006-06-11 14:41:33
243.   natepurcell
honestly, id rather have saenz facing fuentes then drew.
2006-06-11 14:41:45
244.   Andrew Shimmin
Anybody know if Josh Byrnes drives a Prius? He should buy one right away as proof that his interpretation of the morality of paying Grimsley is the clearly superior one.
2006-06-11 14:43:19
245.   Uncle Miltie
Old Maid vs. LHP .455/.435/.864 2 HR (22 AB)
Drew vs. LHP .269/.309/.462 2 HR (52 AB)

Old Maid will pinch hit

2006-06-11 14:43:20
246.   JoeyP
Alright Cody! 3-run HR off Peavy.
2006-06-11 14:43:33
247.   Bob Timmermann
The decision about not paying Grimsley came from Ken Kendrick, not Josh Byrnes.

The mind reels as to what the Rockies management would have done about Grimsley.

Probably a stoning.

2006-06-11 14:45:16
248.   Uncle Miltie
Are you kidding me? Automatic out/strikeout coming out.
2006-06-11 14:45:19
249.   ddger
Kuo has been pitching like the best lefthanded relief pitcher this month (4.2 innings, 1 hit, 0 walks, 8K). He has been pitching lights out since coming back up from Las Vegas. Maybe going down to Las Vegas does work for some players.
2006-06-11 14:45:20
250.   JoeyP
Drew's OBP vs LHP is really low. I figured he'd walk alot more than that.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-06-11 14:45:52
251.   JoeyP
Interesting choice?
JtD?
Come on JtD.
2006-06-11 14:46:02
252.   sanchez101
this would be a good time for Guzman's first homerun
2006-06-11 14:46:52
253.   natepurcell
249

it made lance carter worse.

2006-06-11 14:47:20
254.   natepurcell
Guzman had a good AB. oh well, good try guzy!
2006-06-11 14:47:29
255.   Uncle Miltie
I would have liked to see what Old Maid would have done with that last pitch (fastball down the middle)
2006-06-11 14:47:49
256.   Andrew Shimmin
Speaking of stoning, this is probably the fewest hit batters the Dodgers have taken in any series with Colorado in the last couple years. Wasn't Guzman the only one to get hit this weekend?
2006-06-11 14:48:07
257.   JoeyP
Little obviously wants a HR.
2006-06-11 14:50:25
258.   natepurcell
hahaha, wow olmedo.
2006-06-11 14:50:54
259.   natepurcell
256

guzman got a hit yesterday.

2006-06-11 14:51:05
260.   Uncle Miltie
Old Maid almost gave me a heart attack there!

He's only the Professional Outmaker vs. RHP

Use a pitcher to pinch run Grady!

2006-06-11 14:51:07
261.   JoeyP
That was so close. Good job Old Maid.
2006-06-11 14:51:16
262.   ddger
Should have used Saenz to PH instead of Guzman?
2006-06-11 14:51:43
263.   sanchez101
"MA" "R" "TIN"
2006-06-11 14:51:49
264.   Uncle Miltie
Doesn't matter. I love you Russ Jr!
2006-06-11 14:51:53
265.   ddger
RUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!
2006-06-11 14:51:54
266.   Bob Timmermann
Jason Phillips would have scored from second on that one.
2006-06-11 14:51:56
267.   natepurcell
martin needs his own HOF building.
2006-06-11 14:52:06
268.   Humma Kavula
MARTIN!!!!
2006-06-11 14:52:13
269.   D4P
Steiner just had a small heart attack.
2006-06-11 14:52:38
270.   JoeyP
No need for a pinch runner when Russ Martin is hitting!
2006-06-11 14:52:46
271.   sanchez101
i dont mean to get all joe torre about this, but when martin comes up to the plate in an important situation, i just trust him, more than anyone on the team right now save for Nomar
2006-06-11 14:53:20
272.   natepurcell
veteran leadership!
2006-06-11 14:53:39
273.   Uncle Miltie
Veteran Leadership™

Grits is a genius!

2006-06-11 14:54:10
274.   JoeyP
LOL..Sandy Alomar gets the go ahead single on an 0-2 pitch.

Nice.

2006-06-11 14:54:24
275.   Humma Kavula
I don't mean to get all bluetahoe here, but I love this team!

just kidding around, bluetahoe. I love your enthusiasm!

2006-06-11 14:54:55
276.   Marty
Unfortunately, I think we will see our proven closer in the ninth.
2006-06-11 14:55:11
277.   ddger
Perez in bullpen? Grady can't be serious about using him is he?
2006-06-11 14:55:59
278.   ddger
276 Saito will pitch 9th.
2006-06-11 14:56:03
279.   JoeyP
Saito will probably pitch the bottom of the 9th.
2006-06-11 14:56:23
280.   Uncle Miltie
276- Saito?
2006-06-11 14:58:02
281.   Johnson
Didn't Guzman pinch hit for our proven closer in the top of the ninth?
2006-06-11 14:58:18
282.   ddger
We finally break through against Fuentes. This could be a big comeback win in a close game which we haven't had in a while.
2006-06-11 14:58:30
283.   Marty
Nice, I was wrong. We get Sammy.
2006-06-11 14:59:58
284.   Marty
I was not paying attention. I didn't realize Baez was already in the game.
2006-06-11 15:00:31
285.   natepurcell
that was an absolutely perfect pitch.
2006-06-11 15:01:35
286.   Marty
Martin does a nice job of framing the pitch. Something I didn't notive Navarro doing.
2006-06-11 15:01:50
287.   Johnson
You're forgiven, Marty. You're even more forgiven if we get the next two outs.
2006-06-11 15:02:08
288.   natepurcell
286

Martin does a good job of wooing Steve's heart.

2006-06-11 15:03:30
289.   bhsportsguy
Can't pitch Sullivan away.
2006-06-11 15:03:39
290.   Daniel Zappala
Could Saito start?
2006-06-11 15:05:12
291.   Johnson
TaKK4-3ashi Saito!
2006-06-11 15:05:22
292.   bhsportsguy
That second pitch to Helton is the one that Broxton needs.
2006-06-11 15:05:35
293.   Gen3Blue
Speaking of Ba-da-boom. I think it might have been here ayear ago people were discussing gas economy and I mentioned they were setting up a joint venture based on the Geo-prizm and the Prius and they were going to call the car the Priopism !!!
ba-da-boom
2006-06-11 15:05:37
294.   ddger
Saito has been unbelievable. Is he the best right handed reliever now? :)
2006-06-11 15:06:53
295.   Uncle Miltie
The 2nd best Sandy in Dodgers history!
2006-06-11 15:07:03
296.   JoeyP
No
2006-06-11 15:07:18
297.   gpellamjr
Short memory for the Rox announcers? They just gave player of the game honors to Alomar!
2006-06-11 15:07:39
298.   DXMachina
295.
Alomar or Amoros?
2006-06-11 15:07:48
299.   bhsportsguy
It's nice that Broxton could learn something today and can use it the next time he goes out but its also great that the team was able to pick him up.

So I think that makes us .500 w/o Kent so he returns with us no worse than a 1st place tie.

2006-06-11 15:09:01
300.   Bob Timmermann
And it's 7-0 Mets now and Kevin Jarvis is in to pitch.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2006-06-11 15:09:20
301.   bhsportsguy
So Nate, happy with the Morris signing, I looked is stats, that guy was dealing for his dad.
2006-06-11 15:10:47
302.   Uncle Miltie
298- Los Angeles Dodgers history
2006-06-11 15:11:39
303.   Gen3Blue
And we win. Amazing. If we didn't I was going to begin feeling some shades of 2005 and the good players sequentially going down to injury. But be positive! Even if it goes like 2005 at least we're using prospects and not AAAA players. And I have survived, and still am, these announcers.
2006-06-11 15:12:33
304.   natepurcell
301

his stats are misleading, Tennessee community college competition isnt exactly hot stuff. Even with that, Morris has great stuff and automatically has the best curveball in the organization now. His fb velocity could concievable increase as well as he fills out, polish off his mechanics, and focuses on pitching full time. he is extremely athletic. On his days off of pitching, he was the starting CFer for his CC team.

2006-06-11 15:13:16
305.   Gen3Blue
And when Saito came in, I knew no matter the outcome, we were trying to win.
2006-06-11 15:13:30
306.   JoeyP
I think today was a good day no matter what bc of Matt Kemp/Russ Martin/Willy Aybar. Every game that is played with those 3 in the lineup and developing, is a good game.
2006-06-11 15:13:58
307.   thinkblue0
QUESTION:

a buddy of mine said he read in the LA times today that someone up in the Dodger front office told Guzman not to be worried about being sent down because we were only playing Kemp to showcase him for a trade.

I didn't hear anything about this...did anyone else?

2006-06-11 15:16:01
308.   Chiron Brown
297 In Colorado, Kemp will now be known as the Lone Bison of the Apocalypse.
2006-06-11 15:17:22
309.   bhsportsguy
I think Joel Guzman learned somethings up here and I hope he goes back and picks it up. He's a little more raw and he never seemed to square the bat on the ball but he wasn't awful in the field and he should be able to take the success of fellow prospects like Martin, Kemp, Aybar and Ethier and be ready the next time the Dodgers make the call.
2006-06-11 15:20:50
310.   Gen3Blue
Showcasing Kemp for a trade sounds like a ridiculous rumour of the type people create for entertainment. Hes only 21, so his potential is unknown.
2006-06-11 15:21:54
311.   bhsportsguy
307 Seriously, have you been drinking, here is the quote from today's LA Times.
"The Dodgers will wait to determine whether Guzman can play in what could be his last big league game for a while. Little said the versatile 6-foot-6 rookie probably will return to triple-A Las Vegas when Jeff Kent is activated from the disabled list Tuesday.

Although Guzman has been somewhat overshadowed by Kemp, he has made an impression on the manager.

"We like his progress at third base," Little said. "We'll get him as many at-bats as possible."

2006-06-11 15:21:59
312.   thinkingblue
If the dodgers trade Kemp in favor of Guzman, I'd hope Ned is chased out by an angry mob.
2006-06-11 15:22:10
313.   Andrew Shimmin
307- When I make things up, I often attribute them to the Times, too. It's less of a surprise, that way, when whatever it is turns out to not be true.
2006-06-11 15:23:03
314.   thinkingblue
And what do you know, The dodgers are indeed in first place in June ;)
2006-06-11 15:24:53
315.   thinkblue0
Seriously, have you been drinking, here is the quote from today's LA Times.

ummm...what did I say to warrant that? I went out to lunch with a friend who told me he read that. Hence the reason I ASKED if it was true. So, shouldn't you be asking my friend if HE was drinking?

2006-06-11 15:25:24
316.   Gen3Blue
Interesting-- the best hitter in BB is much closer than expected to the HGH scandal.
Being a recombinant natural product I believe there is no test that can distinguish use. Is this correct?
2006-06-11 15:25:54
317.   Bob Timmermann
313
There's a link to the Arizona's owners remarks about Grimsley and why they don't wish to pay him up on the Griddle.
2006-06-11 15:26:30
318.   bhsportsguy
304 I hear you Nate, so I think some better competititon at the Rookie level will help, now he has only 3 years before he has to be on the 40 man roster so its possible he could more of a Chad pace, Ogden, Vero Beach and Jacksonville. Kershaw has the extra year so you could see a stop in Columbus for him.
2006-06-11 15:28:35
319.   spacebrother
I listened to the last inning in the car. Very nice. Steiner shortened his life by about 3 years with all the excitement.
2006-06-11 15:30:13
320.   D4P
J ust a nother w in f or B aez.
2006-06-11 15:34:18
321.   JoeyP
Could 314 be an "I told you so"?

Wow. And for all the right reasons too.
Afterall, if it was Midas that acquired Penny/Lowe/Drew/Kent/Aybar/Martin/Kemp.

2006-06-11 15:34:47
322.   thinkingblue
316.

Actually, according to an olymbic source, there is an accuate test, it just can't be distributed in large quantities.

2006-06-11 15:36:47
323.   Ken Arneson
Pirates just hit a grand slam. 7-5 Pittsburgh.
2006-06-11 15:36:53
324.   Bob Timmermann
Grand slam in the 8th by Bautista puts the Bucs up on the Pirates 7-5.

Mets up 11-0 in the 5th in AZ.

2006-06-11 15:38:26
325.   Bob Timmermann
13-0 Mets after a 2-run triple by Milledge.
2006-06-11 15:38:30
326.   Ken Arneson
Ha! Beatcha, Bob!

BTW, someone very soon will make Toaster Post #400,000. We're at 399,974.

2006-06-11 15:38:37
327.   Gen3Blue
Holy Cow-just flipping thruogh the channels and see a Pirate Grnd slam. The go from behind 5-3 to leading the Giants 7-5. What a day! And they don't seem done!
2006-06-11 15:40:20
328.   JoeyP
The Dbax board absolutely loves Russ Ortiz.
2006-06-11 15:41:14
329.   Bob Timmermann
I'm a craftsman and I was trying to impart more information.

No, I'm just pushing for comment #400,000

2006-06-11 15:43:28
330.   Ken Arneson
You already own post #300,000, Bob. Give someone else a chance!
2006-06-11 15:43:41
331.   Steve
Memo to Ned:

Leave it alone and I will be throwing confetti outside my window within three years. Put down the phone, get out of the way, and enjoy it with the rest of us.

Sincerely,

Steve

2006-06-11 15:44:16
332.   thinkingblue
Yes Joey, Paul DePodesta did some good things that helped the dodgers for this year. And Logan White did most of what has helped the dodgers this year. And Ned also got Nomar/Sele/Saito/Martinez/Alomar/and maybe Furcal or Lofton.

But then again, Ned also got Baez/Carter/Seo/Hamalack/Tomko.

Also, Paul made some bad moves with Navarro (useless now because we spend 10 million to have Green hit 25 home runs for Arizona, then have Navarro potentially be a problem because Martin is better.)

And, Paul also locked up Perez for 9 million a year. So yes, Ned and Paul have made some bad, as well as good moves.

My point isn't the general managers, my point is that I was right in that this is a good team, and would be in first place in this division. Let's enjoy it.

2006-06-11 15:44:30
333.   DXMachina
I wish to report a Choi sighting at the Pawtucket-Richmond game today. Richmond started a lefty, so the PawSox manager decided to go with right-handed Dustin Mohr (currently batting a robust .164, although the scoreboard mentioned he had nine walks in his last six games) over Choi. Mohr responded to the vote of confidence by going 1-4. Hee-Seop finally put in an appearance when he popped out of the dugout with the rest of the team at the end of the game to celebrate a PawSox victory. The end.

I did see a lot of Canadian National Hero Adam Stern, who's only hitting .234, but is "wicked fast," as the lady the next seat over from me said. (She also asked me if I was a scout, since I was scoring the game. I thought she meant boy scout and was very confused for a moment.) He beat out a bunt for a hit and stole two bases. Apparently nobody's ever told him that speed is the last thing the Red Sox look for when they bring someone up.

2006-06-11 15:47:27
334.   Gen3Blue
322 Interesting. I bet it will be improved rapidly.
2006-06-11 15:48:23
335.   DXMachina
324 Grand slam in the 8th by Bautista puts the Bucs up on the Pirates 7-5.

So they're letting the Pirates hit against their own pitchers? That's even more extreme than the humidor for evening the odds.

2006-06-11 15:48:49
336.   thinkblue0
never ceases to amaze me that teams like the Royals don't go after guys like Choi...might as well give him a shot...they've really got nothing to lose, right?

As for us, it'll be nice to have Kent back, even if it's at the expense of Gagne.

2006-06-11 15:52:00
337.   JoeyP
Also, Paul made some bad moves with Navarro (useless now because we spend 10 million to have Green hit 25 home runs for Arizona, then have Navarro potentially be a problem because Martin is better.)

Wait a minute. You'd rather have paid Green 16 mils last season and not gotten Dionner Navarro? That was one of the best moves DePo made in trading Green's salary and getting a useful player in return.

Why is having Navarro a problem if Martin is better? Isnt it better to have two good catchers rather than one?

So yes, Ned and Paul have made some bad, as well as good moves

The problem is that you are equating them, when the core of the team has been built by DePodesta. White should get credit for Kemp/Martin.

The only real difference making player that Colletti has brought aboard is Nomar.

2006-06-11 15:54:32
338.   Steve
A failure to grasp the concept of sunk costs is nothing peculiar to baseball.
2006-06-11 15:54:40
339.   JoeyP
my point is that I was right in that this is a good team, and would be in first place in this division.

Didnt you say the race would be over by June?

2006-06-11 15:55:51
340.   thinkingblue
So? We could have just let Green go after 2005, then have Martin this year.

Not to mention, Ned also got rid of Bradley, and got a solid player in Ethier.

Like I said, my point is not who built this team, but that I was right that we are a good team.

2006-06-11 15:57:02
341.   MartinBillingsley31
""""''My point isn't the general managers, my point is that I was right in that this is a good team, and would be in first place in this division.""""""''

If you knew ned would bring up the prospects (because lets face it, they are the reason why the dodgers are somewhat winning) then props to you, but i remember you thinking that the team that did not include the prospects would be a first place team (a team that included mueller and cruz and lofton starting with ledee and repko as backups, and navarro/alomar as the catchers, and carter and hamulack in the pen).

The reason why we are not a 500 team is because aybar, martin, ethier, kemp are starting (well most of the time, i wish more) and broxton and kuo are in the pen instead of carter and hamulack, among some other things.

And by the way i agree with you about BOTH ned and depodesta making good moves and bad moves.

2006-06-11 15:57:36
342.   thinkingblue
No, before the season I said that I thought we'd be in first place IN June, and I was right. And yes, I think we'll finish in first.
2006-06-11 16:00:07
343.   Steve
This is crying out for a dumb web-site flashing TWENTY-FIVE BOMBS over and over again, but I don't have the strength.
2006-06-11 16:01:00
344.   JoeyP
TB what are your future predictions for this season? Do you think the prospects will stay up, or do you think the vets will come back and play? What do you think the record will be? What will Ned do at the trade deadline?
2006-06-11 16:02:43
345.   Ken Arneson
Bob snagged post #400000 with another soccer post. It'll be tomorrow's USA-Czech Republic game chat.
2006-06-11 16:06:23
346.   Jon Weisman
I picked the Dodgers to win the division, and got some disagreement but not a whole lot. I'm not crowing about the pick, because it's not like it was a radical concept around here that they would be in first place today.
2006-06-11 16:07:14
347.   Bob Timmermann
That showed up as 399998 on my screen.
2006-06-11 16:07:45
348.   MartinBillingsley31
Do you think the prospects will stay up, or do you think the vets will come back and play?

That's precisely why i think ned overdid it with the mediocre veterans.
All of our outfielders that we started the season with are out of options except maybe repko, so when ledee and repko come back, bye bye kemp and ethier, unless ned does something.
When mueller comes back, bye bye aybar, unless ned says bye bye to martinez.
Same goes for when navarro comes back, unless ned says bye bye to alomar.
Izturis coming back?

What will Ned do at the trade deadline?

That scares the hell out of me.

2006-06-11 16:09:55
349.   Ken Arneson
347 Object #400,000 is a version of conversation #399,998. It's kinda complicated.
2006-06-11 16:11:03
350.   thinkingblue
I think Martin has taken over the catchers job
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2006-06-11 16:11:13
351.   Bob Timmermann
349

All I can say then is:
USA!
USA!
USA!
USA!

2006-06-11 16:13:00
352.   thinkingblue
I don't think Kemp is going anywhere, though Ehthier may go down. But you know, Ned isn't the one who gave Ledee a two year contract, or traded for Navarro. But I would blame him for Tomko.
2006-06-11 16:14:23
353.   Jon Weisman
If he can stay in the rotation, Jeff Weaver is on pace for 22 losses this season.
2006-06-11 16:15:59
354.   Ken Arneson
Kemp is being interviewed on Baseball Tonight right now.
2006-06-11 16:16:01
355.   Marty
What does the lucky 400,000 poster win? The home edition of the Toaster?
2006-06-11 16:16:09
356.   JoeyP
Izzy, Navarro, and Kent are most likely back in three weeks.

Who gets sent down?

Guzman for Kent is probably a given.
The other two are much harder.

2006-06-11 16:16:12
357.   sanchez101
matt kemp is being interviewed right now on baseball tonite
2006-06-11 16:17:22
358.   natepurcell
Kemp is getting pretty popular, he was just on the phone with the BBTN crew.
2006-06-11 16:17:23
359.   Nuke
Seems to me like nobody ever equates trading Shawn Green with signing Derek Lowe, our second best starter. After the trade, DePo claimed we couldn't have signed Lowe without the 6 mill saved by dumping Green.
2006-06-11 16:17:28
360.   JoeyP
or traded for Navarro.

You've let to explain why having Navarro on the 25 man roster is a bad thing.

2006-06-11 16:20:51
361.   D4P
Kemp was just on Baseball Ton...Oh, never mind.
2006-06-11 16:22:51
362.   MartinBillingsley31
"""'Ned isn't the one who gave Ledee a two year contract"""""'

Ledee is only signed thru this season.
But to your point, he might not have signed ledee but he did sign lofton, and overloaded the outfield with mediocre veterans.

"""or traded for Navarro""""

Nothing wrong with navarro as the backup catcher, way better than alomar which he signed.

""""I don't think Kemp is going anywhere"""

Can you show me any proof that repko has options this year because if he doesn't there is no room for kemp and ethier once ledee and repko return, once again ned overdid it with mediocre veterans.

And by the way i have no problem with tomko because he's not blocking any prospects, billingsley is the only pitching prospect ready that is not on the team yet and beimel has options.

And you never addressed the fact that you thought this team would be a first place team with mueller, lofton, cruz starting with ledee and repko backups, navarro/alomar catchers, and hamulack carter in the pen.
When all of that was happening we were not even a 500 team we were below 500.
Then the prospects came up and the team shot up.

2006-06-11 16:23:18
363.   Nuke
356 I don't think it's that hard. Sandy Alomar and Ramon Martinez will have to go. You can stash Sandy on the DL until Navarro gets traded or September, which ever comes first. I'm sure some team out there needs veteran leadership and a slick .347 hitter.
2006-06-11 16:25:00
364.   bhsportsguy
353 I think its going to be fascinating to see how the Angels deal with the Weaver situatation.

BTW In Jacksonville's 12th straight win, 20 out of 21, Andy LaRoche went 4 for 4 with a homer and a double with 4 RBIs, is among the league leaders in RBI, he now has a .896 OPS with a .307 average with more walks than strikeouts.

Based on Terry Collin's statements, LaRoche, who now appears to have a handle on AA, will soon be heading towards Vegas, the only thing that could block him is if they plan to play Guzman at 3B when he returns.

2006-06-11 16:27:27
365.   JoeyP
I don't think it's that hard. Sandy Alomar and Ramon Martinez will have to go.

I agree.
But the GM coming to that conclusion I have less faith in.

2006-06-11 16:30:00
366.   JoeyP
364. Do you see Mueller, LaRoche, Guzman, and Aybar all being Dodgers in 2007?

Seems they all play 3rd base, and all could make a case for being the guy for 2007 at that position.

2006-06-11 16:30:26
367.   DXMachina
To tell you the truth, at this point I think I'd rather have Lucille than Izzy, something I never expected back when Martinez was signed.
2006-06-11 16:30:49
368.   Eric Enders
[in my best Jeffrey Jones voice]

Mr. Colletti, your work is ingenious. It's a quality team. But there are simply too many players, that's all. Just cut a few and it will be perfect.

2006-06-11 16:31:05
369.   natepurcell
364

i have laroche at 309/421/483 (904 OPS)

where do you have him at?

2006-06-11 16:34:03
370.   bhsportsguy
362 While its true the team started winning when Martin, Ethier and Aybar came up, they won games because the starters began to pitch better, Furcal and Kent both started to hit and Nomar had his 28 RBI month. Because the pitching was good and the Dodgers got production from their veterans, it allowed the kids to ease into the game.

This is all a hypothetical argument because Navarro, Mueller, Ledee and Repko went down and the kids have done a great job. But to say that the team wouldn't have won with those guys given the great play of Nomar, Kent, Penny and Lowe, should not be easily accepted either.

2006-06-11 16:35:17
371.   JoeyP
367. I just dont want both on the 25 man roster. 1 is fine since apparently Aybar isnt going to learn SS.

Its interesting that Milti the other day brought up the point that Izzy is walking alot in his Rebah at Vegas. I wonder if the Dodgers didnt tell Izzy that they are going to try and trade him, so it would be in Izzy's best interest to play a sparkling SS and be patient at the plate.

2006-06-11 16:35:24
372.   bhsportsguy
369 oops I was using his old OBP, carry the one... oh never mind.

So do you see a move in his future.

2006-06-11 16:35:24
373.   bhsportsguy
369 oops I was using his old OBP, carry the one... oh never mind.

So do you see a move in his future.

2006-06-11 16:38:04
374.   natepurcell
372

yea i think he should/is going to be promoted soon. His development looks to be on track.

2006-06-11 16:41:58
375.   bhsportsguy
365 I still think that it is easier on the team to have a guy like Sandy Alomar, Jr. on the bench where there is no question who is the number one guy. I think in dark corners in Dodger Stadium, they would like to keep Navarro in AAA to play everyday and build up an interest in him. Also, there are no identified catching prospects in the system.

Izzy presents a different problem because you have no option but to put him on roster in the next week or so but again, Izzy is not a bench player, with his contract and if he has shown that he can make the plays in the field, he is definitely someone who may moved for someone (maybe a #4 starter)

2006-06-11 16:45:07
376.   Nuke
The Twins, Padres, Pirates, Phillies, and Devil Rays will need new third basemen next season.
2006-06-11 16:52:14
377.   JoeyP
I dont think the Dodgers would get much for Mueller.
Guzman could still have value as a 1st basemen and the Dodgers are thin there.
Aybar could play 2nd base.
LaRoche could still play 3rd.
Its not impossible that the Dodgers would keep all 4 of those guys.

The teams that need a 3rd basemen dont have what the Dodgers need (starting pitching). Zach Duke, Ian Snell, Oliver Perez.. maybe 1 of those 3 could be had. But are they worth trading a prospect for?

2006-06-11 16:58:21
378.   natepurcell
377

im a fan of Tom Gorzelanny, their power lefty SP in AAA.

numbers for the international league:
79.2IP 2.82 era 60H 3hr 23bb 76k

he was the #3 pirates prospect coming into the season and he has a 90-05 mph fb that sits 90-92 with a plus slider.

2006-06-11 17:02:53
379.   Jon Weisman
Two spots on the roster will open when Guzman is sent down and Gagne goes on the DL. Most likely, perhaps, Kent and Izturis go to L.A., Navarro to L.V. Navarro can be bummed, but he's too young to be too defeated by it.

That's assuming no other injuries - a tenuous assumption.

Repko is only in his second year - he definitely has options, though e's a long way from healthy.

2006-06-11 17:07:01
380.   JoeyP
If Navarro ends up being traded it better be for something really really good. The Dodgers have nothing at catcher in the minors, and if Martin were to get hurt it would be disastrous. Alomar cant catch everyday, and the next guy in the minors would be Bellornin I think.
2006-06-11 17:07:52
381.   Steve
Mueller might be worth something straight up for some other "professional veteran hitter" or whatever they are calling them these days, but he will not command anything in the way of prospects.
2006-06-11 17:08:36
382.   Bob Timmermann
And the DBacks finally go down, 15-2. They've lost seven straight at home to the Phillies and Mets.
2006-06-11 17:12:26
383.   D4P
Is it too early to declare the Dodgers the prohibitive favorite to win the division title (barring injury, of course)?
2006-06-11 17:14:03
384.   Bob Timmermann
383

Yes.

But if you'd like to, I've got a friend called Hubris you can talk to.

2006-06-11 17:15:41
385.   Steve
I hereby forbid any other team to win the National League West. So let it be done.
2006-06-11 17:19:22
386.   D4P
384
Sure, I'll talk to him/her. I guess I better do so this summer though, as I hear s/he's going somewhere before the fall...
2006-06-11 17:20:08
387.   Suffering Bruin
It's going to cost me a night's sleep and probably lead to a very long week but... putting off work to watch the Dodger game was pretty damn fun.
2006-06-11 17:21:47
388.   Greg S
Don't get injured by falling D-Backs as the team freefalls past us. They simply do not have the talent to be playing like they were. I declare them a non-factor in this race.
We, on the other hand, do have the talent. Sure, you can't expect all the Rookies to contibute like they have. But then it can be Kent. Or Mueller. Or Billingsley. Or even Gagne. Or even whoever we are going to trade for by 7/31.
2006-06-11 17:22:13
389.   bhsportsguy
379 Repko was added to the 40 man roster after the 2004 season so he has this year and next year with options.
2006-06-11 17:22:17
390.   gpellamjr
384 I hate what the Greek "hybris" has become in english.

383 Actually, I picked the Dodgers to win the division. I said they'd be in first by mid-June.

2006-06-11 17:24:22
391.   Greg S
Sorry to add to 388 but... we lead the league in runs scored without having a single player leading any offensive category. THAT is how you win championships.
2006-06-11 17:24:55
392.   Bob Timmermann
SB,
An recent grad of the place where you teach said hello in one of the World Cup game threads.
2006-06-11 17:27:37
393.   D4P
392
Just a wild guess: did you substitute "recent grad" for "alum"?
2006-06-11 17:29:08
394.   Eric Enders
391
That's true only until the day after tomorrow, when Nomar officially becomes the NL batting leader.
2006-06-11 17:30:09
395.   Bob Timmermann
393
Consciously, no.
2006-06-11 17:31:04
396.   Steve
Our catchers this year have something like 40 RBIs. Mr. Tracy McClutchington had 55 all of last year.
2006-06-11 17:32:07
397.   Marty
391 Nomar will be leading in average as soon as he gets a few more at bats. He's something like 20-30 points better than the next guy.
2006-06-11 17:32:40
398.   Nuke
392 I'm right here. : )
2006-06-11 17:33:19
399.   Marty
But then, you knew that from 394

Must. Hit. Refresh. More. Often.

2006-06-11 17:35:20
400.   D4P
396
Yeah, but only 43 of those 55 were as a catcher.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2006-06-11 17:36:34
401.   D4P
399
Speaking of "hitting Refresh": have you other Firefox users noticed that hitting refresh a bunch of times eventually causes the Firefox program to eat up a lot of RAM, eventually requiring you to close it and restart it?
2006-06-11 17:39:54
402.   Bob Timmermann
I try to bring people together, but does it work?
2006-06-11 17:45:30
403.   D4P
The bad thing about Kemp so far:

.366 BA, .400 OBP, for an IsoD of only .034

Also, just 3 BBs vs. 10 Ks

2006-06-11 17:45:49
404.   Greg S
394- I was aware. But it helped me illustate my point and takes nothing away from it. I call it the Mariner Syndrome. You can have Griffey, A-Rod and Randy Johnson on one team. But if that's all you have, you'll lose. Or you can be like the White Sox (or Astros) last year and just be really solid up and down and go all the way. Of course both of those teams also had solin pitching and we will need to aquire a bit more of that.
2006-06-11 17:47:38
405.   Gen3Blue
Dodgers acquire excellent young starter. The small market cap Gm said "of course you are always sad to trade a promising starter, but when you can insert three ML level guys averaging .300 into your lineup like Martinez , Alomar and Muellar, you have to do it. Besides, he'd be a Free agent next year."" Oh damn!-I just woke up.
2006-06-11 17:48:17
406.   thinkblue0
404-

both of those teams had more than solid pitching, they had stellar pitching. There's a REALLY big difference.

2006-06-11 17:52:34
407.   Eric Enders
406 I think the difference is mostly semantics. The point remains, we need more pitching. I don't think we advance very far in the postseason without calling up Billingsley.

I read an article the other day (don't remember where) that noted it's become really hard to win the World Series without having a pitcher who gets called up from the minors and sets the world afire -- KRod '02, Willis '03, Jenks '05. Interesting.

2006-06-11 17:56:12
408.   Greg S
I think that we have two excellent, World Series proven starters. We need one more and then we are as stong as any team in that category. Again, I can't wait to see Billingsley but I don't want him starting game 3 in Yankee Stadium in his 10th MLB start.
And no, I don't have us penned into the WS already. I just think we are plenty good to win the division and that we need to be built to win in the postseason.
2006-06-11 17:58:08
409.   Bob Timmermann
Why would the White Sox be having their World Series games being played in Yankee Stadium?
2006-06-11 17:58:27
410.   Eric Enders
"I can't wait to see Billingsley but I don't want him starting game 3 in Yankee Stadium in his 10th MLB start."
-----

Well I, for one, certainly do.

2006-06-11 18:00:22
411.   Bob Timmermann
And I guess the NL is finally going to win the All-Star Game so the AL team will be home for Game 3.
2006-06-11 18:02:13
412.   Steve
I don't want him starting game 3 in Yankee Stadium in his 10th MLB start.

I do, unless you have in mind:

Game 1 -- Penny
Game 2 -- Lowe
Game 3 -- Penny
Game 4 -- Lowe
Game 5 -- Penny
Game 6 -- Lowe
Game 7 -- Penny

2006-06-11 18:02:32
413.   Bob Timmermann
Continuing with this theme, did anyone expect that the Angels would be playing in a Game 7 of the World Series and the first two pitchers in the game for them that year would be John Lackey and Brendan Donnelly?
2006-06-11 18:06:38
414.   Steve
I wouldn't mind seeing Brett Tomko starting Game 3, as long as it was for the Yankees.
2006-06-11 18:07:13
415.   Gen3Blue
406 Though it wasn't always directly from the minors, our last two series have featured a pitcher sort of coming from out of nowhere to dominate the series. And they have thrown so much that season and in the series, that they never were quite the same again. Thats just the way it is. Of course I refer to Fernando and Orel.
2006-06-11 18:07:42
416.   Greg S
413- 2002 Angels are a great example of a team that was built without superstars. Against my point (and backing up Eric's) was K-Rod and Lackey. But do you remember how hard it was to piece together a rotation for that series? Only reason they pulled it out was that the Giants didn't have a 1-2-3 punch either.
2006-06-11 18:08:12
417.   bhsportsguy
If I understand qualified vs. non-qualified, plate appearances times game played, Nomar should be No. 1 in batting after today's game with his .358 average.
2006-06-11 18:10:19
418.   Greg S
2001 D-Backs were also just solid (other than Gonzo) and there 1-2 punch was so stong that they got through it (in 7) without a stong 3rd guy.
2006-06-11 18:11:37
419.   Sam DC
Great win to follow via ticker today.

And I just got to answer the question "So, how is the Dodgers' season going this year?" from my wife, which was fun.

2006-06-11 18:11:38
420.   bhsportsguy
415 Jerry Reuss, Burt Hooton, Tim Belcher, the whole 1988 bullpen and the late Steve Howe also played huge roles in those playoffs. The best pitched game was Game 5 in the 1981 World Series was the matchup between Ron Guidry and Jerry Reuss, though Fernando's helped lead the way with his victory in Game 3.
2006-06-11 18:13:00
421.   Eric Enders
415 While I understand your point, I think it's a reach. Orel didn't come from out of nowhere during the 1988 World Series; he was the second-best pitcher in the league in 1985 and we all know what he did during the '88 regular season. And he was "quite the same" the next year as far as the quality of his pitching. He just had less run support in 1989; his ERA+ was exactly the same.

A more apt comparison would have been if Ramon Martinez made the '88 postseason roster and threw a couple of shutouts.

2006-06-11 18:14:56
422.   Eric Enders
417 No. He has 193 PAs and he needs 195.3.
2006-06-11 18:17:25
423.   Steve
NASA scientists are hard at work trying to figure out how to get Nomar .3 of an at-bat.
2006-06-11 18:17:45
424.   twerp
A few out of the box pitching questions (pun intended)===

Maybe struggling starters Perez, Tomko, Seo sort themselves out. If not, after the probable Billingsley promotion....

1) Should DJ Houlton maybe come with him? He's getting lit up a bit in LV, which happens to lots of pitchers there. But he started 19 games for LA last year, more quality ones than not w/ 5.19 ERA, was described as not easily rattled, is young w/ potential. A couple current starters don't answer to that description too well lately...would Houlton be likely to do worse...or, better?

2) Maybe a better out of box question...Elmer Dessens slipped away more or less quietly last offseason. 3.90 ERA for wretched Royals this year; 3.56 for LA in '05, including 7 starts; 3.2 for LA in '04. Career ERA 4.38, which looks like he's improving.

Career 135 starts, 303 appearances. Basically starter only 2001-03......might not take too much of an offer to wrangle him back to LA...the Hall of Fame probably is safe, but he just might be a capable 4-5 starter...???

3) Wasn't there talk in spring of Kuo becoming a starter? Any reaction?

4) Maybe most out of box question...Trying to get some value out of Carter...who I don't think ever has started. Could he? Opinions on fat chances of that happening? He's lights out in LV, gets his lights punched out in LA. Career ML ERA 4.15. Maybe knowing he was going to get X number of chances, X number of innings unless he totally stunk (which has been known to happen) would help him get his head (and stuff) straight..

2006-06-11 18:17:46
425.   Greg S
415- A good rule...When trying to build a Championship team by examining past teams, please disregard 1988.
2006-06-11 18:22:14
426.   D4P
NASA scientists are hard at work trying to figure out how to get Nomar .3 of an at-bat.

Well, they've already figured out how to get pitchers one-tenth (or two-tenths) of an inning, so it shouldn't be too tough.

2006-06-11 18:25:15
427.   Eric Enders
424 I kind of like the idea of getting Dessens back, though as a reliever, not a starter. His Dodger tenure pretty much proved that he sucks at the latter but does well at the former.

I still like the idea of giving Miller a look as a starter if it becomes necessary. I'd prefer that to rolling Houlton or Carter out there.

Heck, I'd prefer promoting Orenduff before I'd throw Houlton or Carter out there.

2006-06-11 18:25:16
428.   Steve
Trying to get some value out of Carter...who I don't think ever has started. Could he?

The voices. They're coming back to me.

2006-06-11 18:25:56
429.   Eric Enders
426 "Well, they've already figured out how to get pitchers one-tenth (or two-tenths) of an inning, so it shouldn't be too tough."

Apparently I missed something.

2006-06-11 18:26:06
430.   JoeyP
I dont think the Dbax are dead. They do need to get Juan Cruz back healthy and send Russ Ortiz to a far off place. Benching Craig Counsell and calling up Stephen Drew might help them too.
They've lost 7 in a row but 4 of them were to the best team in the NL.

The Dodgers success depends on acquiring a new starter. Its great to have 2 really good chances to win each time out (Penny/Lowe). But the 3 other pitchers dont leave alot of confidence.

Grits has done a good job of trying to get Penny/Lowe as many starts as possible, and skipping/benching the stragglers.

2006-06-11 18:27:47
431.   Eric Enders
"Grits has done a good job of trying to get Penny/Lowe as many starts as possible, and skipping/benching the stragglers."

I'm not sure that's the right adjective considering we're hoping the season will last until the final week of October.

2006-06-11 18:29:37
432.   Gen3Blue
420 421 Both of your fact filled memories do make my idea a bit of a reach for I'd forgotten some of the details. But I do feel they both were hard used (didn't Hersh pitch in 4 games or more) I guess its partly romantisizm.
425 That '88 team was a beaut. I admit.
2006-06-11 18:29:57
433.   JoeyP
If he doesnt pitch them now, then there may be no October at all.
2006-06-11 18:33:33
434.   D4P
429
For example: witness the number of innings pitched by Lowe and Broxton, respectively.

http://tinyurl.com/k6g8c

2006-06-11 18:41:59
435.   Eric Enders
By the way, it turns out I'm a dunce and bhsportsguy was right in 417, although he was probably right for the wrong reason.

Under the rules of baseball Nomar has been the official NL batting leader for quite some time now, probably a week or more.
----------

"MINIMUM STANDARDS FOR INDIVIDUAL CHAMPIONSHIPS
Rule 10.23
To assure uniformity in establishing the batting, pitching and fielding championships of professional leagues, such champions shall meet the following minimum performance standards:
(a) The individual batting champion or slugging champion shall be the player with the highest batting average or slugging percentage, provided he is credited with as many or more total appearances at the plate in League Championship games as the number of games scheduled for each club in his league that season, multiplied by 3.1 in the case of a major league player. EXCEPTION: However, if there is any player with fewer than the required number of plate appearances whose average would be the highest, if he were charged with the required number of plate appearances or official at bats, then that player shall be awarded the batting championship or slugging championship."

2006-06-11 18:44:29
436.   twerp
Sele may be on borrowed time. But other than maybe extra rest, why so long between starts given what he's done so far?
2006-06-11 18:45:23
437.   Uncle Miltie
So what did Kemp say on Baseball Tonight? Aren't they going to replay it at 9?
2006-06-11 18:48:31
438.   Eric Enders
437
"We gotta play 'em one day at a time."

"I'm just happy to be here. Hope I can help the ballclub."

"I just want to give it my best shot, and the good Lord willing, things will work out."

[Kidding, of course.]

2006-06-11 18:50:07
439.   JoeyP
Penny/Lowe have started 27 of the Dodgers 63 games. Or 42.8% of them.
2006-06-11 18:51:38
440.   DXMachina
"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains."
2006-06-11 18:52:05
441.   Eric Enders
439 Let's hope the AL World Series team is Cleveland or the Yankees or some other northern team with an open-air ballpark.

Why?

"Penny and Lowe and pray for snow."

2006-06-11 18:52:12
442.   twerp
290. (Way back.) "Could Saito start?" He did, a bunch, in Japan. But apparently he's far and away best closer option right now.
2006-06-11 18:53:27
443.   Eric Enders
442 A couple of bad games by Broxton got you down?
2006-06-11 18:58:37
444.   Steve
439 -- Isn't that as many games as one would expect any two starters in a five-man rotation to start?
2006-06-11 19:14:51
445.   twerp
443. Saito as closer seems to be Grady's preference...go w/ experience, I guess...working out so far. 4 chances, 4 saves...Broxton probably future closer--future maybe not too distant
2006-06-11 19:17:21
446.   Eric Enders
445 I have no problem with Saito as closer du jour. It was the "far and away" bit I was quibbling with.
2006-06-11 19:19:50
447.   JoeyP
Any two would be 40 percent.
So Lowe/Penny are trending slightly above that.
2006-06-11 19:28:09
448.   Ken Arneson
438 That's pretty much it. And something about his mom watching him.
2006-06-11 19:36:34
449.   Nagman
On Baseball Tonight, Kemp, when asked about the difference in the majors and Single-A (they made more references to Single-A than the short time he was in double A), he said something like the pitchers are much more around the plate and the fastballs are better. He said he's getting good pitches to hit. He was asked what it was like to hit two bombs in front of his mom, he said he told her before the game that he'd try to hit one for her. It was a pretty quick interview (by phone) but how often do we have a Dodger sighting on Baseball Tonight?
2006-06-11 19:37:11
450.   twerp
There's been comment about not much catching depth in the organization after Martin and Navarro, except maybe Bellorin...

Great timing dept: David Ross, rated excellent defensive catcher, but a black hole at the plate with LA....

With Reds in '06, 7 HR, 71 AB, 19 RBI. .OBP/SLG/AVG .424, .718, .338. Over his head? Way over, based on history, and not many AB. But with any kind of reasonable numbers, let alone ones like this, he'd probably still be with LA.

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2006-06-11 19:40:04
451.   sanchez101
when was Ross rated as an excellent defensive catcher?
2006-06-11 19:47:28
452.   Eric Enders
I don't know if excellent is the right word, but he was certainly no Jason Phillips.
2006-06-11 19:53:07
453.   twerp
446. Good point. "Far and away" maybe a bit much factoring in Broxton. But far and away, compared to others tried.

Have Baez' struggles been mostly mental, or mechanical probs, or what?

2006-06-11 19:53:29
454.   Gen3Blue
As for catching, way down at Columbia we have Apodaca,and he's not bad for being only 19. His mate Harper is a bit older,but having a good year offens. We should keep both Martin and Navarro this year of course.
2006-06-11 19:56:51
455.   Jon Weisman
I turned on the Cleveland-Chicago game with the score 10-2 in the bottom of the ninth.

The tying run is now in the hold/hole with none out.

2006-06-11 19:57:00
456.   overkill94
435 That's how Gwynn ended up beating Piazza for the batting crown one year. My dad and I were all psyched about his victory until that whole loophole came around. I guess it makes sense though.
2006-06-11 19:58:13
457.   overkill94
455 I'm thinking Ozzie might be regretting taking Konerko and Dye out of the line-up about now.
2006-06-11 20:01:45
458.   Bob Timmermann
I'm still trying to figure out what Fernando's key role in the 1981 World Series was. He pitched a very ugly complete game in Game 3 and didn't pitch again.

During Game 6, ABC kept running a split screen of Dave Righetti and Fernando showing the potential all rookie matchup in Game 7.

And then Bobby Murcer pinch hit for Tommy John...

And George Frazier came in to relieve...

2006-06-11 20:02:40
459.   ToyCannon
Someone better tell Mr. Burbank High the current NL leading hitter that his team needs a 3rd baseman because I'm sure that would be news to him since he just sent the veteran to be a permanant benchholder. Sometimes the lack of respect for other teams players amazes me. What is interesting is that the top 4 average hitters are all 3rd baseman. I wonder when the last time that has happened.

The Diamondbacks have just now dropped out of 1st place and people are writing them off!!!

2006-06-11 20:04:29
460.   twerp
451. The "excellent defensive catcher" bit was in a story on dodgers.com sometime near spring training '05, I think.

Can't quote exact source. Seeing it there lent a credibility that maybe I shouldn't have allowed. I take it his defensive excellence was/is debatable?

2006-06-11 20:07:12
461.   Bob Timmermann
The year Gwynn won the batting title without enough plate appearances was 1996. He batted .353 in 451 ABs with 498 PAs.

Ellis Burks of the Rockies was second at .344.

2006-06-11 20:09:57
462.   Bob Timmermann
The nickname "Fighting Weismans" will be retired tonight unless Stanford rallies.
2006-06-11 20:10:39
463.   Jon Weisman
Anything is possible.

Tying run on deck in Chicago.

2006-06-11 20:12:20
464.   twerp
Garciaparra 2B, Tacoma...

any relation Nomar?

2006-06-11 20:13:15
465.   Bob Timmermann
It's more likely for a college team to rally however. 6-0 is small potatoes in college baseball.

Stanford brought in its closer in the fourth inning.

2006-06-11 20:14:51
466.   Bob Timmermann
464

Why that's Mia Hamm's brother-in-law!

Nomar - St. John Bosco High alum
Michael - Bosco Tech alum

The Garciaparra family had a strict Bosco policy.

2006-06-11 20:16:00
467.   Jon Weisman
Did Philip Bosco go there?
2006-06-11 20:20:10
468.   Jon Weisman
Tying run up.
2006-06-11 20:22:03
469.   Bob Timmermann
Stanford's closer isn't faring better than the starter did.
2006-06-11 20:22:51
470.   Jon Weisman
Okay ... that one failed. That leaves it for Stanford to come back from nine down.
2006-06-11 20:26:28
471.   Bob Timmermann
Ten down.
2006-06-11 20:51:42
472.   LAT
The Garciaparra family had a strict Bosco policy

As in chocolate milk? (Reference for those over 40)

Missed what looked like an exciting game today. Took one of the daughters to see Les Miz. First time for both of us. Is it blasphemy to wonder how it had such a long run on Broadway? It was enjoyable but I didn't think it was great. And like most Andrew Lloyd Webber shows, it was at least two numbers too long.

2006-06-11 20:53:50
473.   overkill94
461 Does my memory deceive me? Maybe I was excited that Piazza got 2nd place? Oh well.
2006-06-11 20:54:18
474.   overkill94
472 Or for us Seinfeld fanatics :)
2006-06-11 20:56:24
475.   Icaros
LA Times:

Next up in the kid queue: Chad Billingsley.

The Dodgers are engaged in serious discussions about promoting the hard-throwing right-handed pitcher to make his debut either Thursday against the San Diego Padres or Friday against the Oakland Athletics, a high-level source said.

http://tinyurl.com/lcm6y

2006-06-11 20:58:12
476.   yankz
Sorry if this is answered above, but I didn't read through all 475 comments. For fantasy purposes, who would replace Gagne if he is DL'd again? I read that they considered replacing Baez last time...thanks.
2006-06-11 20:58:52
477.   Marty
We drank Ovaltine in my family rather than Bosco.
2006-06-11 20:59:32
478.   overkill94
476 Based on how things were unfolding before Gagne came back, it would be Saito with Baez probably next in line.
2006-06-11 21:05:26
479.   LAT
I was raised on Quick but my kids are Ovaltine drinkers. More vitamins and stuff. . . so my wife says.
2006-06-11 21:05:37
480.   yankz
Wow, you guys are quick. Oh wait, it's only 9 in California.
2006-06-11 21:08:24
481.   natepurcell
let the billingsley era begin!
2006-06-11 21:14:01
482.   sanchez101
476. Takashi Saito is the closer right now, and he's been good in that role. If Gagne goes on the DL, which Im assuming is inevitable, Saito will have that job until he looses it to Broxton. The only way Baez gets that job back is if Saito and Broxton struggle. Even then, Id rather have Kuo than Baez, but maybe I read too much Steve.
2006-06-11 21:16:35
483.   Marty
Oh, I had my share of Quick too. We would heap as many spoons as we could into a glass. The sludge at the bottom was the best part.
2006-06-11 21:23:40
484.   natepurcell
our first 3 picks have signed or are going to sign for slot money and even slightly below slot money at 2.3, 1.325 and 1 million respectively.

this might help because then we can offer more money to nick akins and alex white.

2006-06-11 21:27:54
485.   yankz
478,482 Thanks.
2006-06-11 21:30:13
486.   Jon Weisman
472 - I saw Les Miserables in London when I was 20 - I loved it, truly. That Eponine would melt the coldest heart.
2006-06-11 21:30:27
487.   LAT
Nate, is that Bellagio or Imperial Palace slot money. Kidding aside, what is slot money?
2006-06-11 21:33:42
488.   Uncle Miltie
475- You just gave me a mini heart attack. I was skimming through the posts and I saw "Chad Billingsley" and "The Dodgers are engaged in serious discussions". The first thought that came to my mind was that Ned was close to acquiring Zito. Thankfully, it was just about calling him up.

484- have you heard anything new on either of these two? They both dropped in draft because of their bonus demands (and character issues with Akins). I have a good feeling about Akins though since he's a local kid. $300-500 K should get it done. White on the other hand, might be looking for $1 million and wouldn't that piss of the commissioner's office and some of our other draft picks?

2006-06-11 21:35:07
489.   natepurcell
487

slot money is what value MLB commisioners office assigns for each pick. Teams are suppose to abide by it. Some teams dont because some players ask for more money.

2006-06-11 21:36:42
490.   natepurcell
488

From the guy I talked too who knows White, he said White would probably be asking for 850k or so to sign. As for Akins, I have no clue. But I think 500k should do the trick. his bat speed is absolutely incredible.

2006-06-11 21:38:37
491.   natepurcell
to add, Akins high school coached posted in the dodgers draft thread on the dodgers scout.com board and gave some very nice insight on akins ability as a player.
2006-06-11 21:41:20
492.   sanchez101
488. I dont think the Dodger would be worried what the early picks think if White gets 7 figures. Ive never heard of that before, and it certainly didnt bother Billingsley when LaRoche got his money. I think the commissioner's office owes Logan White for holding the line on Hochevar, and its not like White hasnt paid a late round pick good money before either.
2006-06-11 21:41:29
493.   LAT
486, That's what I'm talking about. Everyone loved it, yet it was mostly lost on me. I enjoyed Phantom much more, even Starlight Express. Rent is coming up next.
2006-06-11 21:45:54
494.   natepurcell
here ill post what Akin's high school coach posted.

its kind of long, but good insight.

I found this site while looking for draft info on a player I have coached at L.A high school nicholas akins . Let me tell you what I know personally about the kid his nickname among the coaches on la's campus is the freak he is the strongest 190 lb kid I have ever seen 350lb bench press 600lb squat 39 inch vertical are fb coaches said he was the best rb in school history as a soph. I coach baseball at L.A high and the saddest day in our school history was when he checked out and transfered to el camino he is the finest baseball talent I have seen in my 25 yrs of coaching , how many hs kids have you seen hit a baseball 420-470 ft with a wood bat. I will say he is as good an athlete as anyone in this draft,I dont know what defensive position he will play I dont think he will be a big league ss because he really hasn't shown the defensive intensity that is nessecary to play ss at that level but if he concentrates on his defense and makes it a priority he has the ability to standout at any position . He was really hurt by not playing this yr - he was not allowed to play because of a rulebook interpretation ,he is a good kid who trains harder than any athlete we have had here,sometimes we felt his dad pushed him to hard.That was a problem on game days because he put alot of pressure on himself to be the golden child and represent the LA inner-city as the best player since d.starberry .All in all he has a chance to be special . Thats no hype he is a special talent , I will quote two top baseball guys "tom lasorda" said he had the most explosive swing he has ever seen ! and "tony gwynn" said 'the best hands and batspeed he has seen on a hs player pretty good endorsments. I hope the dodgers step up and sign him. I personally know he turned teams who called late in the 3rd rd , two calls in the 4th and one in the fifth .I talked to him at school after draft day and he was in good spirits he was happy to be a dodger he was just waiting to see how the process would go ,he would love to go out and play . I think his dad has given him the option to make his own decision , the coaches at the school feel he should go to a jc and that if he plays the way he is capable he will be a top 10-15 pick in the 1st rd as he was projected to before he ran into a bad situation at El camino.

response...
thanks guys for the compliments,I think he profiles best at 2b he has good hands and a true shortstops arm but he is not a high energy player on defense. I feel that in the right organization he will blossom defensively, he is top heavy in that he worked on his swing 3 to 1 and a ss has to be glove first.we tried to emphasize defense to him but he was so young and talented I think he just felt hitting was enough.I have seen a big change in him on campus he has matured alot,I think he is ready to reach his enormous potential . I will share my thoughts with anyone on this kid he really could be the best hitter in this draft period ,his hitting tools are truly amazing it's just a matter of time.In his pro workouts before the draft he was blowing some guys who went in the 1st rd this yr out of the water.In no disrepect to any hitter the dodgers took in this draft they physically dont compare to this guy.

2006-06-11 21:54:30
495.   sanchez101
494. Nick Akins seems something like Adam Jones if he can polish his talent. My guess is that he'll go to a JC if he wants more than 300-400K, and that might be the best case scenario for him. If they do sign him, I hope they sign him asap so he can spend as much time with the organizational instuctors in Vero Beach as possible. I wouldnt take anything Tommy Lasorda says seriously, though.
2006-06-11 21:55:18
496.   natepurcell
495

That was the player i thought of too, adam jones. Good comp.

2006-06-11 21:57:05
497.   Jon Weisman
494 - Starlight Express???

"Rusty gets 10 penalty points!"

I saw that on the same trip. It was my quarter abroad, in France, and we traveled across the Channel to London. We got off the train at Victoria Station, and Starlight was playing across the street. It was 7:15 p.m., with a showtime at 7:30. I was so eager to see a show in London, any show, that we ran to find a hotel or hostel, dumped our stuff, and dashed back to the theater.

I thought it was a strange show, but it was a great memory. We saw Les Miserables the next night. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I'll take that over Starlight, Rent and Phantom combined.

We had a favorite plays discussion in a thread once - I don't know if we covered musicals. I might put Evita first. (Arcadia was my favorite play.)

2006-06-11 21:58:57
498.   natepurcell
495

even down to their college commits. both had rides to SDSU!

2006-06-11 22:00:24
499.   Eric L
And like most Andrew Lloyd Webber shows, it was at least two numbers too long.

Ah, but Les Mis isn't an Andrew Lloyd Weber musical.

2006-06-11 22:02:10
500.   Eric Enders
497 Do you have to have seen it in performance, or does reading it count?

In any case, put me down for "Fences."

Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2006-06-11 22:07:33
501.   Jon Weisman
500 - I'll allow it.
2006-06-11 22:07:48
502.   Jon Weisman
New post up top, so this can remain the theater thread.
2006-06-11 22:08:20
503.   Uncle Miltie
494- he sounds like he has a ton of potential. Does he know anything about his bonus demands?

495- Adam Jones is still very raw and doesn't have very good plate discipline, though he's an excellent athlete, probably better than Akins. I was hoping that he'd be more like Chris Young.

2006-06-11 22:38:05
504.   thinkingblue
362.

First of all, it will be at least a couple months before Ledee and Repko get back, and even when they do, the dodger management simply won't be that stupid to send Kemp down. If he is still having the impact, we'll find a spot for him.

Whether that is to trade Ledee, or send down a struggling pitcher, we'll find a way to keep Kemp.

2006-06-11 22:42:11
505.   Andrew Shimmin
Now on HBO, the worst show I've ever seen.

Akins' coach made a valient effort, but he fell six words shy, in his second sentence, of Dickens' doozy to start Tale of Two Cities.

2006-06-11 22:52:38
506.   LAT
Put me down for West Side Story. Wicked was suprisingly good. Hard to tell if it was really that good or I just had low expectations but I really enjoyed it.

505. Andrew I assume you are talking Luckie Louie. The SF Chronical reveiwer said it was so bad he thought it was a satire until about halfway through he realized it really was that bad and not on purpose. Said it was one of the worst shows ever.

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