Can anyone defend the Dodgers case for paying TomKO 3.6 mil in 2006?

'

I take offense with your remark of

'

If you're just going to use one punctuation mark, make it count, like %

Of course Eithier is on the bench with a lefty on the mound. Cruz crushes lefties. Saenz will DH. Aybar's glove almost killed the Dodgers yesterday fwiw.

So Navarro's rehab is over, but he'll be left at AAA. And Tomko pitched much better while Navarro caught him. Not sure what the stats say, but I think thats right.

Looking at that lineup and seeing Saenz in there as a DH makes me happy. He should be a DH somewhere. The guy can hit, but don't put him in the field. And against a lefty I really like. If Zito throws him a single fastball tonight I will be shocked.

Any word on Drew's condition? Or is this Grittle just treating him gingerly?

1-They needed another starter pretty badly. Tomko has generally been not atrocious. Tomko has shown flashes of brilliance in the past (remember his dominant run down the stretch in 2004?), but has generally been a head case allowing his struggles to build on themself. He has decent stuff.

1 The only defense is that at least he's pitching crappy while only making 3.6 compared to what Beckett and Clement are pulling down in Boston.

5-Saenz is a better third baseman than Aybar. He just can't play in the field for long stretches of time (more than 2 straight games or 4 times a week)

Drews off days are insane, if he is hurting, just say so.

He is hitting .264/.304/.453 vs lefties, it isnt great, but the Dodgers don't pay him 11.4 million to sit vs lefties.

Not that I'm a Tomko supporter ny any means, but there were certainly worse deals for pitchers out there.

Headline I was not expecting to see:

Dan Rather Considering Offer From Mark Cuban

Doesn't Cuban realize that the Mavs will play better once they get back home? I think at 74, Rather's best playing days are behind him.

This is something fun I just discovered at Jon's very own SI.com:

http://dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/1985/0805.html

Per Jon's earlier thread, Kemp could be next.

1 Let's not overstate the case. I'm no Tomko fan, but we're talking about five bad starts, just after those five good ones.

I'll bet Tomko turns out to be league-average at the end of the year. What's the going rate for league-average starting pitchers? If it's $3.6 million or less, there's your justification right there.

9 Well saying he is a better 3B than Aybar isn't saying a whole lot. He is below average at best, and everyday he spends in the field kills him, and his stamina. Hence, the perfect DH.

10-The money shouldn't matter when deciding who to play against lefties. They pay Cruz, Drew, and Lofton the same regardless of which one plays. They are paying Cruz more than 5th outfielder wages, but thats how they play him.

Tomko is as Tomko does.

13 - I still have that issue.

17 Except that you always know exactly what you're gonna get.

15 I know it isn't saying much at all. Aybar is the worst fielding thirdbaseman I've ever seen (and I've seen plenty of Antonio Perez). I'm just pointing that out. I think there is a point in there somewhere.

Anyway does anybody have the splits for Tomko- Martin/Navarro/Alomar?

18 - I might have it too.
That article has a great photo series of Jack Clark flattening Mike Scioscia, iirc.

Mike Edwards says hi.

19 Tomko is extreamly streaky. He dominates and dominates a while. Then he sucks and sucks a while. He's a slightly below average pitcher who is never mediocre at one time.

23 I agree. I meant over the course of a season.

I was also making a joke, which may or may not be funny.

Thanks. I know he's had good streaks and I'm not attempting to ruffle any feathers. But, unlike some Dodger pitching, he hasn't been suffering from any kind of "bad luck" e.g. errors but a rather prolonged spell of misfortune. And he's 33 years old.

What IS the typical starting pitcher salary?

18, 21 Me too. I was almost 13 when it came out and to say Guerrero was my idol would be an understatement. I have over 100 different baseball cards of his. I was heartbroken when he was traded for Tutor in '88. The ensuing championship helped eased my pain but I dislike Mike Marshall to this day.

Wow, I just found out Matt Kemp leads the majors in home runs this month. Imagine if he played every game?

25 Well... by way of comparison... Jeff Weaver's lifetime ERA is almost exactly league-average (4.44 for Jeff, 4.41 for his leagues).

Jeff's making $8.4 million, I think.

If the Pirates beat the Twins tonight, the Cubs will have the worst record in the NL.

26 - Interesting. Mike Marshall was my favorite Dodger.
If we all picked superstars to idolize, what fun would that be?
Then again, this opinion is coming from the person who once wrote Matt Young a fan letter.

If the Angels were to eat 1/2 of Jeff's salary I'd take him off their hands for the rest of the year. That would be a sweet deal, get two draft picks from the Angels, and the player for 1/2 price that we got the picks for in the 1st place. I guess for that reason alone the Angels would not deal with us.

Did anyone catch Kemp on ESPN News? He was suppposed to be on this past hour, but I'm at work. I'm hoping he's not going to be jinxed by all the sudden buzz, but as long as he doesn't appear on the cover of SI any time soon... ;-)

Iron Mike Marshall was also one of my favorites but it was the 74 version not the Balsa wood version of 88.

26 Maybe a tutor would have been more help to the team than John Tudor.

Bill Madlock, at least in his Dodger tenure, is the worst fielding third baseman I've ever seen.

Zito has given up 5 and 6 runs in his last two starts, so we are in for a pitchers duel tonight!

I don't really care if Drew rests against a lefty as long as Cruz is in there for him.

Tomko has generally been not atrocious. Tomko has shown flashes of brilliance in the past (remember his dominant run down the stretch in 2004?),

Tomko's has had an ERA of 4.40+ in 7 of 9 MLB seasons.
His career K/9 is 5.88
I dont think Tomko has ever been dominant, and he's had plenty of seasons to improve.

I cant really make a case for signing Tomko, much less for giving him a 2yr deal. Just a bad decision. If you're trying to improve a pitching staff, you dont ever sign a Brett Tomko.

If the Angels were to eat 1/2 of Jeff's salary I'd take him off their hands for the rest of the year. That would be a sweet deal

What would be sweet about having Jeff Weaver in the Dodgers rotation? If you're trying to improve a pitching staff, you dont improve one by putting known mediocrities (like Weaver/Tomko)into them.

13 SI? Feh. I think Kemp should hold out for the Wheaties box.

38 You do when there is no one else out there for that cheap, and you know his spot will be taken by a prospect in two years.

38
You can make a very solid case for signing Tomko as a 5th starter, which is essentially what he was brought in to be. You know he isn't going to carry you, but he won't really hurt you either. And with the paucity of starting pitchers available you pick him up, and don't have to start someone mediocre like Houlton.

36 And it's really hot here in the East Bay today, so all those fly balls Zito usually allows will be travelling a lot farther tonight.

4 That says we should send Tomko down to Las Vegas to pitch well with his buddy Navarro.... Be patient, Navarro is too good to be down there long. By August he will be back up with the Dodgers or on some other big league club. I hope we keep both Martin and Navarro. If we had a better bullpen or a more versatile bench, we could afford to carry three catchers, at least till Alomar is finished.

And with the paucity of starting pitchers available you pick him up, and don't have to start someone mediocre like Houlton.

Whats the difference between Houlton and Tomko, other than age/salary? Or the possibility that one might improve.

The way to build a pitching staff is to either get known good pitchers, or get average pitchers that might improve. Tomko is neither.

42 - a 5th starter, sure. But by mid-May, he was anointed the 3rd starter. That's where the problems begin.

Roger Dorn was the worst third basemen I've ever seen. Always with that "Ole' Bull**t"!

You know he isn't going to carry you, but he won't really hurt you either

Wont hurt you? Having a pitcher that you know will have an ERA of 4.50+ wont hurt you?

43 I just pray he can't throw his curve for a strike tonight. If he has to get people out with his fast ball we got it made in the shade.

8 If we can afford $13 million for an average performing shortstop, why do we have to limit it to $4 million when we're shopping for a starting pitcher? A starting pitcher is worth a lot more than a shortstop.

6 IP 3 ER = 4.50 ERA

49 Only if you are interested in winning games.

I may be wrong, but i look at the tomko thing like this:
1) who else was available via free agency at a decent price/length of contract?, i actually can't think of anyone, about the best there was, was millwood but it took a 5 year deal.
2) we are thin on pitching and tomko is not blocking any prospects.
3) all i see on this upcoming free agent market for starting pitching that will be worth it is zito, so if you add zito to penny, lowe, billingsley you still have 1 open spot in the rotation next year, not to mention a few open spots in the pen.

Now that doesn't mean i like tomko, because i don't.

45
The main difference between Tomko and Houlton, is that Tomko doesn't walk everybody, like Houlton does. In more inning Tomko has only walked 19 to Houlton's 34. You don't want a pitcher who can't throw strikes. Tomko is a solid No. 5 pitcher, he won't anchor a staff, but he won't torpedo it single-handedly either.

49 Seriously though, who could we have gotten that was better? Burnett, Beckett, are they worth it?

I'm racking my brains for a great pitching acqusition this off season.

47 - We have the 4th best ERA in the league, with 3/5 of the rotation sporting era's of 5.20, 5.64, and 6.90.

Imagine if Tomko, Seo, and OP had ERA's in hte 4.50+ neighborhood.

52 I agree

50 - Ah yes, the quality start.

If we are going to shred someone it should be OP and not Tomko.

Does Tomko low walk rate mean anything when he gives up HRs and doesnt strikeout anyone? You're looking at Houlton as if he has no chance to improve. Its like, I know Tomko is bad. But Houlton, could be better. But at least wont cost 4 mils.

Its almost like your conceding when you knowlingly put a pitcher as bad as Tomko into the rotation. Bc he's gonna make 32 starts and put up a high ERA. I guess he'll save the bullpen a few innings, but over the long haul putting anyone that you know is going to be bad into a position to get 30+ starts is a bad move.

57 :) The stuff cy young's are made of.

38 As was true last season, as we approach mid-season in 2006, there aren't enough crappy teams out of the playoff hunt that have pitchers we would want, who would come at a price we're willing to pay.

The profile of the kind of pitcher we'd be able to deal for is a guy who is overpaid, on a team going nowhere that has a dire need of such magnitude that it would be willing to overpay. Our tradeable asset would have to be so unique that none of our competitors could match it.

So, for example, Navarro might be trade bait for a lousy team that hasn't got a decent catcher anywhere in sight. Or, if we think Mueller's coming back and our long-term plans for the infield shift to Guzman, LaRoche and Young, then Aybar might be a guy we could dangle to a team that lacked a legit prospect there.

I think Colletti's recipe for success this season is to do what DePodesta did: Suck it up and wait for the kids. We've got a team that's pretty good now. Maybe we'll win the division, or maybe we'll tank. Be patient. I'd rather suffer through more Tomko than tear up the farm system trying to replace him.

how could everyone openly criticize a hometown hero like brett tomko. i mean, that kid's got all the intangibles. and he's a real innings eater with a veteran presence in the clubhouse. can't teach that.

apologies for punctuation

62 Two words - Heart and Soul.

62 Finally somebody talking sense.

61 I've been maintaining to friends that my goals for this season are (a) 85 wins and (b) lots and lots and lots of at-bats for the kids. Extra wins/playoff appearances are gravy.

My goals -- as if my goals had anything to do wtih Dodger performance! -- for next year are a bit higher.

44-

I hope we keep both Martin and Navarro. If we had a better bullpen or a more versatile bench, we could afford to carry three catchers, at least till Alomar is finished.

Navarro has got A LOT more value to us in a trade than he does playing once a week or so.

Tomko's from Orange County, if that makes a difference. Same high school as Aaron Boone, Phil Nevin, and old friend Matt Luke.

Aybar might be a guy we could dangle to a team that lacked a legit prospect there.

I'll be really annoyed if we deal Aybar. No reason he can't take over 2B when Kent is done playing...

60 - Sad thing is, if the pitcher's run support and bullpen lead to his winning lots of games then a 4.50 ERA would be overlooked by Cy Young voters.

62 I'm not falling for DT sarcasm a second time. Nosirreee.

64 sometimes you've gotta forget what all logic and reason tells you, and just follow your heart. know what i mean?

68 I think losing Aybar would be more sensible then losing LaRoche or Ethier. Not that I want to trade Aybar, though.

The first time I ever heard the term "innings eater" I believe it was being applied to Kevin Gross - possibly the Brett Tomko of the 90s.

I'd rather suffer through more Tomko than tear up the farm system trying to replace him

Why not look to the farm system to replace him? To me, Tomko's no different than Russ Ortiz. They both arent good pitchers, have had plenty of time to improve but havent, and both shouldnt be in a good team's rotation. But Ortiz is seen as much worse, bc he's paid more. But the bottomline is that each guy is still starting the same amount of games. The Dbax pulled the plug on Ortiz and are going with kids that at least have a chance to be better. They are even eating Ortiz contract to do it. Why cant the Dodgers do that with Tomko?

Give Byrnes alot of credit. Dumped Ortiz, moved El Duque. He understands thats its not helping a team to start someone that is probably going to be below league average innings eater. Giving 60+ starts to pitchers with no possibility of being better than average, is conceding. The Dbax have a bright future bc they dont share that attitude anymore.

52
Exactly

Joey I'm not disagreeing in that I'd rather have what your talking about but in todays baseball world no one has a rotation like that other then the World Champions. Which is why I'm trading some prospects for some pitching. We would be dealing with Florida not for Miggy or Willis but for Olsen or Sanchez or Johnson. It they wanted to trade Olsen for Gathright we should be able to do better.

71 Even if that means acquiring a number one starter at the trade deadline. Forget winning games. All you need is a short catcher, who will hit .230 down the stretch, has a babe for a wife, a small man's complex and a GMC.

That is what "good" baseball teams are made of.

74
Who would you have come up from our minor league system to start right now, that would be an improvement over Tomko?

Sarcasm, by the way, is discouraged on DT because it is so easily misinterpreted, and those misintrepretations can cause trouble. And I'm not being sarcastic. It just makes life easier.

Isn't Houltons ERA like 5.8 right now? That just gives the dodgers even less of a chance to win.

77 Posting as an evil genius mad scientist

Chad Billingsley's clone. Almost done!

Its like, I know Tomko is bad. But Houlton, could be better.

Or he could be worse. Tomko's career ERA is 4.55. Houlton's is 5.16 from last season. His ERA is 5.78 in AAA. It's Vegas, but we're talking AAA here. Sure, Houlton could be better, but he might be worse too. We're talking about a Rule V guy here--not some stud like Billingsley.

Tomko is what he is. A mediocre pitcher with some durability. There's some value to that, and I don't mind his signing too much. Tomko may start another hot streak, then struggle again, and bounce back and forth. My guess is his numbers at the end of the season will match his mediocre career norm. But mediocre is better than awful, and in all due honesty, Houlton might have been that.

Odalis' contract is far worse, right now.

WWSH

wow, the devil rays are playing 4 outfielders AND a deep 2nd baseman against ryan howard. there is literally nobody on the right side of the infield.

Using era+:

Russ Ortiz was an above average pitcher from '01 - '04, but emphatically bottomed out this year and last. All signs point to him being "done" (perhaps similar to OP's career trend to date).

Tomko has been consistently just below average throughout his career.

Houlton was worse last year than Tomko has ever been. He could improve, sure, but I don't think his Vegas numbers are very inspiring.

er, i meant there's nobody on the `left side of the infield

78
I lost a good friend because sarcasm doesn't work well in text form. Course in the end he couldn't have been that good a friend to be such a thin skinned yahoo.

78 You on the other hand, are impervious to misinterpretation. I have failed to sneak one by you again.

82
I'm hoping the unheralded Shields can defeat the man who is Cole Hamels.

Re: 74

Ortiz's ERA+ last season was 64. Tomko's was 92. This season, Ortiz posted an ERA of 7.54. Tomko has actually pitched well enough to make one think he can recover from his current skid and be average. The same can't be said for Ortiz.

WWSH

The Dodgers can match their season-high road win streak of two games tonight.

julio lugo owns cole hamels.

More meaningless facts:

The Dodgers have a better record (15-6, .714) when Aybar starts at 3B than when Martin starts at C (24-10, .706).

Rookie pitcher Shawn Hill gets a single off Wright, and Soriano follows with a 2R HR. Nationals 3-2 over the Yankees, bottom third.

I will say this about Soriano: He has a smooth, graceful, classy home run trot.

This is not sarcasm or exaggeration - Matt Kemp goes faster around the bases in his home-run trot than several Dodgers in a full sprint.

89 That's so pathetic it's almost sarcastic. :)

92 Hill returns the favor by walking Wright to load the bases with no outs. Ouch.

91 - Throw in some needless DePo bashing, 1 sentence paragraphs, a human interest story involving a family member or friend, and you've got a Bill Plashcke story in the making!

=P (I find smily faces to be an excellent marker for sarcasm - saves all that trouble of interpretation worries)

What! How dare they send down our future all star in then making! (Yes, I know what Jon just said about sarcasm, but it felt appropriate after last night's discussion).

Has anyone here been to the Oakland Colliseum? Do you know what their policy is in regards to bringing bags into the stadium.

97 If I were running the place, I would only allow bags of money.

97 I was there about four weeks ago, and had no problem bringing a knapsack in. They do a quick search, mostly to make sure you're not sneaking in any food.

97 They'll check your bags (not very thoroughly) before you go in. Standard size guidelines apply. I'm headed over there from work in a little bit... Excited to see my first Dodgers game of the year!

97 Old ladies??

97 PS -- I believe that you can bring in food, similar to in SF, just no bottles or alcohol and such. At least I hope not, since I will be picking up my dinner before heading over tonight...

99 Cool, so it isn't like Dodger Stadiums 14 inch and under policy? My backpack is pretty big, I just want to make sure I can wear it in.

73- Hooray! I wasn't the only one who hated Kevin Gross. At least Tomko hasn't ever thrown a no-hitter. That was a tough, tough day for Gross haters.

From the website...
• Bags brought in to the Stadium may not be larger than 16" x 16" x 8". All bags, including backpacks and purses, are subject to search. Hard coolers of any size are not allowed in the Stadium
• No cans, glass containers, alcohol, or weapons are allowed in the Stadium at any time.
• Brooms, sticks, or poles are not permitted in the Stadium. Guests may bring whiskbrooms (not exceeding four feet in height) on days that the A's are going for a "sweep".

105 - I guess I just assumed the food thing, since my usual stadium (Pawtucket) does prohibit it.

I wonder why MLB allows stadiums to make there own rules when it comes to things like making signs, and holding up brooms. I also wonder if you are not allowed to throw a homerun ball back in other stadiums.

105 Hmmm...going to have to measure my backpack. Thanks.

13

that would be coolness right there.

I think losing Aybar would be more sensible then losing LaRoche or Ethier.
What has Ethier shown to make him more of an untouchable than Aybar?

Drew should be playing unless he's injured. I'm getting tired of seeing Drew rest against almost every left handed pitcher. Grits seems to be resting Drew as much as the Giants have done with Bonds the last few years.

Aybar probably isn't playing because he's done almost nothing against left handed pitching. With Tomko on the mound, I would have play Old Maid at 3B, DH'ed Kenny Lofton (since he has to be in the lineup), and played Ethier in LF (assuming that Drew is physically incapable of playing)

Tomko would be an acceptable 4th or 5th starter if he is little more CONSISTENTLY AVERAGE (like pitching 5 or 6 innings every 2 out of 3 outings instead of pitching in streaks of 4 or 5 straight outings where he is really good or really bad).

His final numbers of innings pitched and ERA is acceptable for the season but it's how he collects those numbers.

His inconsistently really puts lot of pressure on the bullpen during the course of a full season.

13 My Dad told me a couple months ago that he had brought binoculars to a baseball game when Pedro Guerrero was still on the Dodgers and he spied Guerrero sitting just down the tunnel smoking a cigarette while the dodgers were batting. I don't know if that is humorous to anyone else, but it is to me.

105 Did the website have the scare quotes around the word sweep? If so, it's silly. What baseball fan wouldn't know the meaning of the word in the context he/she saw it (on a baseball stadium website)?

Reassuring to know they don't allow weapons. Although I'd be more concerned at a Raiders game than an As game.

105

I think its safe to say taking any of that stuff in NOT COOL

Looking at the '85 SI cover, what's the current record for the mile?
A quick Google search turns up 3:43.13, by Hicham El Guerrouj of Morocco. Is that still it? If so, a drop of three seconds in a span of more than 20 years tells me we're approaching the limits of the human body.

Tomko is due for a good game today, but then again we're facing an A's team that's won 7 in arrow with Zito on the mound, should be a good game (interesting)

105 - What if you want to bring in a broom because the area around your seat is messy? Must you wait until the A's are going for a "sweep?"

105 - I find the concept of that last item rather humorous, at least the last bit. I have this image of some wiseacre bringing in a broom when the A's are about to get swept and being stopped by security.

"I'm sorry sir, but not today. Come back when we're playing the Royals."

115 Yeah, El-Gueeroj was pretty much the king of mid distances for a while, I think he's moved up to longer stuff now.

Three seconds is about right for how much the record should change. What has the 100 gone down by? .1, .2 max?

199 - Come to think of it, ignore my "limits of the human body" bilge. Makes me sound like those idiots who said man would never fly, and Gehrig's record was untouchable.

120 - Make that, 119. I don't know what we'll be discussing by the time 199 rolls around.

110 Ethier's defense is better. Plus, the dodgers are two years away from needing a second basemen. I love Aybar don't get me wrong. I just think Ethier is a better fit for the next couple of years. On the other hand if Aybar's power develops that might be a more valuable commodity on the infield.

121 - Unless regfairfield reposts it at 199, and then you'll look prescient.

122 - I'm not so sure the Dodgers are 2 years away from needing a second baseman. Kent is aging, and appears to be a bit of an injury risk. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to see him make at least one more trip to the DL this year, and it very well could be an extended stay.

Joel Hanrahan has been promoted to Vegas according to the Jacksonville radio announcer.

An aside, there are at least 12 players in the Vegas/Salt Lake game that have played in the Majors.

If Jacksonville is going to tie the Southen League record of 16 wins in a row, they will have to come from behind, they are trailing 4-0 after two innings.

126

do you know whats up with laroche? hes not in the lineup.

124 I can't predict wether Kent will be injured or not, so i'm just going by his two year contract. That seems like the most logical way to look at it to me. Anything could happen, though.

122- and LF happens to be the easiest position to play. Teams usually stick their great hitting, poor fielding players in LF. Some left fielders are good defensively, but don't have the range or arm to play CF, range in Ethier's case, arm in Carl Crawford (though it's not nearly as bad as Bonds') and Barry Bonds' case.

Ethier still looks like a solid 4th outfielder to me. There is nothing wrong with that. People seem to get upset if one of our prospects isn't projected to be a future all star/hall of famer. For example:
-Willy Aybar reminds me of Bill Mueller. Mueller has had a very solid career and has been shuttled between 2B and 3B.
-Russ Martin reminds me of Jason Kendall (the Pittsburg version) with better defense
Before coming to the A's, Kendall was an excellent offensive catcher. They both have above average speed for a catcher, a disciplined approach at the plate, and before Kendall's horrific ankle injury, they both had nice gap power. Kendall has always been a guy that pitchers love throwing to, but Russ has a better arm and seems more mobile behind the plate.
-Matt Kemp reminds me of Carlos Lee with a better arm
Both are big guys, who are deceptively fast. Both have monster power. Lee's plate discipline improved as he got older and I think Kemp is capable of the same. Lee was in a 3B in the minors, so his defense in LF still isn't there. Kemp is definitely a better defender.
-Andre Ethier reminds me of a mix between Ricky Ledee and David Dellucci
David Dellucci has been a very underrated player throughout his career and should have been given an opportunity to start at a much younger age. Dellucci is faster than Ethier and is also a better defender. His power developed more as he got older. Ricky Ledee has been a solid 4th outfielder throughout his career and before the hamstring injuries, was a good defender who had the ability to play all three outfield positions.
-Chad Billingsley reminds me of Tim Hudson
Not the way he's built at all, but how he pitches. He's doesn't seem afraid to throw a breaking ball in a fastball count and his mound presence is outstanding just Hudson. Hudson has more pitches than Billingsley, but they both seem like very smart pitchers, who sometimes struggle with their control and high pitch counts.

Teams usually stick their great hitting, poor fielding players in LF.

I thought that was first base or as John Kruk gotten to you too!

Billingsley reminds me of Ben Sheets.

128 Not good, last night LaRoche injured his shoulder while making a play in the field, they took an MRI and Dr. Jobe is coming from Ogden to Salt Lake (Vegas @ Salt Lake City) to review it.

That's all I got.

OPS v. Lefties

Furcal 1.019
Lofton .633
Nomar 1.418
Kent .934
Saenz 1.353
Kemp .286
Cruz 1.109
Martin .971
Martinez .764

Good thing JT isn't still managing or Kemp would never see another AB against a lefty in his career.

133

ah crap. Did he injury it throwing or diving for the ball?

130 "and LF happens to be the easiest position to play."

Point well taken. Don't tell that to Adam Dunn though.

129 - A fair point. However, like you say, there are quite a few things that can happen. And if you ascribe to the belief that Aybar can play 3B (as opposed to believing that his weak defense there makes that an unacceptable option) he's a fairly versatile player that could plug in any holes the team may have at two positions where both starting players are fairly old/injury-prone and possibly on the decline of their careers.

That's not to say I'm a huge Aybar backer, so much as I am skeptical of Kent's ability to both stay healthy, and outproduce the players behind him on the depth chart / beneath him in the minors, over the next season and a half.

133

what shoulder was it?

135 Based on the play I just went back and listened to, he probably hurt it diving for a ball down the line, he didn't go back when the next innning started.

138 Don't know, the radio broadcast had a lot of static at that time. We'll just have to wait, I supposed it could be anything.

The Vegas paper has nothing about any injury, but it does have a nice story about LaRoche.

www.reviewjournal.com/

140

I was on the bus yesterday (12:30 Dodger game day) & believe me I know the frustration I know you were hearing the Vegas feed, but let me tell you KFWB isn't that good either

Link to story here:
http://tinyurl.com/lw3sd

are they serious? Dodgers pregame show has a poll, who is the best lefty in the game and they give you 3 options- zito, johan santana and glavine.

I really hope Dodger fans are not stupid.

144 - What, no Joe Beimel?

why is Todd Zeile doing a Dodgers' pregame show?

I really hope Dodger fans are not stupid.

Some non-negligible number of Dodger fans voted that they'd rather see some one hit for the cycle than throw a no-hitter, this week.

146-

because he lives about three houses up from me :)

The way Liriano pitched today he might be giving Santana some serious competition. Has any team every had two young lefties with such nasty nasty stuff. I'm so glad he's not a Giant.

147 Actually that would be a hard call for me, I have seen no-hitters on TV but the Dodgers have not had anyone hit for the cycle in the last 36 years so its pretty rare.

Then again, no Met has ever pitched a no-hitter.

149 Except that both he and Santana are lined up to pitch against the Dodgers when they are in town. Gotta love interleague play. (note sarcasm)

150-

no hitters are just so much more rare. If you were at a game what would you remember more...someone actually no hitting another team or someone like Rocco Baldelli hitting for the cycle?

I was at the game where Tatis hit two GS's in one inning...that was absurd.

Nats/Yanks tied 5-5 in the top of the 8th. Robinson brings in Cordero to face A-Rod with the bases loaded two outs.

146

what Dodger pre-game show do you speak of? I'm watching Frank McCourt (in my own words??)

oh my god, dodger fans are this stupid. zito has 56% of the votes so far. santana is only in the 30s. My God....

Cordero Ks him.

Bronx Banter might trade Rodriguez for Aybar if we hurry over there.

I kind of want to sign Jason Schmidt this offseason.

156-

I know it isn't going to happen...but a little part of me actually wonders if the Yankees would explore trading him. Again, I know the chances are slim to none, but I wonder if it's gone through Steinbrenner's mind to ditch Arod with the way he's been playing.

154 The game is not on Fox unless you get the Oakland feed.

157-

having Kent AND Schmidt in Dodger uniforms would tear a hole in the space time continuum.

155

are you up in Oaktown?

We might presume it's OK to bring in effigies?

157

I hear he's got a great work ethic.

154- The game's on KCAL9 tonight.

I thought the game was on Prime/foxsports (my bad)

having Kent AND Schmidt in Dodger uniforms would tear a hole in the space time continuum.

Schmidt's nasty but he is 33 and a bit old. How many good years does everyone think he has left? Id say probably 3 at the most.

The AL is off to a 5-0 start tonight against the NL.

166-

yeah I'm really iffy on him. I'd rather have Zito although I don't think he's worth what he'll get from someone like the Yankees.

Well, let's see which Zito shows up tonight, the 1-2 run Zito or the 4-6 run Zito. Can usually tell after about four or five pitches.

168

well we wont have Gagne's 10 mil salary next year, we can probably afford one of the two.

Poor Vin, he was reading off the lineup and he's like "batting 9th, is Ramon Martinez the pitcher".

Two pitches I can tell: Zito has good stuff tonight.

Two pitches I can tell: Zito has good stuff tonight.

That's just Furcal being his usual terrible self.

157 I didn't realize Schmidt was in a contract year. No wonder he's pitching better than he has in a while.

I believe the market is undervaluing control pitchers, and has for a long time.

What about Cory Lidle as a back end starter? Either by trade or FA after this year?

Furcal didn't even swing. Zito has life and control of his fastball, that's when he has a good day.

Barry Zito's uniform is a throw back to the 90's

175

you're probably right. I just wanted to put in my daily Furcal jab.

I would rather have Zito than Schmidt, Schmidt is probably the better pitcher right now but Zito is younger and more durable, he's never gone on the DL and always goes 200+ innings a year. I would be fine with $10-12m per, but no more than 4 years. If Gagne isnt back, and Colletti decides he really needs a starter I wouldnt be suprised to see something upwards of $40m over three.

I have a feeling Zito will re-up with the A's.

174. cory lidle? well, at least it would give something for Steve to complain about

178

we have some useless parts signed for next year

odalis- 7.75
mueller- 4.5
tomko 4.1

178 I'd think that if a perpetually injured pitcher like AJ Burnett can get five years at $10-12m per, that a guy who is never hurt like Zito should be able to get six from somebody.

Why is Melhuse batting 3rd for the A's?
Why is Scutaro even in the lineup?

183

I don't know but it sounds like your an A's fan.

183 Ken Macha has less faith in Perez than JT.

Kemp has a sling shot type of arm.

Melhuse: "Hi Joey! Hi!!"

183 1. That's why, I guess.
2. Mark Ellis is on the DL with a broken hand.

Ok, thats why Melhuse is batting 3rd.

Again, it could be me, but it does seem that in this streak with every pitcher outside of Penny and Lowe, it has been with 2 outs and no one on.

I have a feeling Zito will re-up with the A's.

I highly doubt it. The A's cant compete with the big market teams. Zito is either bound for one of the NY teams or one of the LA teams.

191-

very true about not having Gagne's salary. Not to mention Izzy's salary will probably be gone, and in a year or two with Kemp, Martin, Laroche, Aybar etc we should have more money to spend.

Olmedo reprising one of his old roles for his former team. Let's hope he can manage to do a little better in his next couple ABs (why does it always feel like former Dodgers always do so well against their old teams, but the reverse isn't true?)

190 BTW first time Tomko has not given up a run in the first inning in 6 starts.

Zito is on so far

Is this a joke? Swing come on.

Oh, fine. Let him strike out the side. It just means lots of pitches for him -- he'll tire earlier.

(Yeah, right.)

196

Zito thruw fastballs thruw Kemps wheel house the first at bat, Let's see how he pitches him next time around (if he pitches him the same Kemp is gonna take him deep)

Old Bernie takes Chad Cordero deep to win the ballgame. Final 7-5. Seems a lot like the Nationals gave it their best shot and will now be meekly swept from here out.

I highly doubt it. The A's cant compete with the big market teams. Zito is either bound for one of the NY teams or one of the LA teams.

He's from southern california which makes me think if we offer somewhere near what the others offer we will get him.
Hopefully the other southern california teams don't snag him.

At least his pitch count is a little high.

Wow, Zito looks great. He just made Kemp look Jose Ortiz (A's reference)

The AL is 6-0 tonight. But the Marlins are ahead of Toronto in the 9th.

191 - Why do you say the A's can't compete with the major teams? It's true that they still don't have as much cash to throw around as a team like the Dodgers, but that doesn't mean that they can't still pick and choose their spots to make reasonably-large contracts.

Their opening-day payroll this season was $62 million, and their two heftiest contracts just about match the two largest contracts for the Dodgers ($11.5 for Kendall, $9.5 for Chavy to $11.4 and $10 for Drew/Gagne - I thought Furcal was $13 mil but the payroll sidebar on DT has him listed at 9...). Though they can't have as many large contracts they can still put up a sizeable number for a good player (and the Dodgers have several 'albatross' signings preventing them from having a lot of available extra cash unless they can make some salary dumps).

Meanwhile, Zito looks terrible, doesn't he?

200

I've heard interviews of him (Howard Stern) if the Dodgers offer a desent contract I think he would sign.

200- Zito's from San Diego, but I think he lives in Las Vegas. He's extremely durable (has never been on the DL) and goes deep into games.

206

he did go to school at ucsb and usc, so he does have LA ties.

199 - How many articles do you think will be written in the next couple days about how 'unclutch' A-Rod is and how much of a 'proven winner' Bernie is?

204 The A's have not re-signed one of their free agents during this recent run.

209 - All the more reason to suspect they're saving up cash to pay out to one or two impact players, no? =P

Zito's from San Diego, but I think he lives in Las Vegas. He's extremely durable (has never been on the DL) and goes deep into games.

Never been on the DL and goes deep into games, that's why i like him better than others that are going to be free agents.

Bottom line we are thin on starting pitching (even in the minors) and we need to get one of the best upcoming free agent starting pitchers.
The recent draft helped our minor league starting pitching but it will take time to see them.

Could that be classified a Scutaro Principle?
Marco Scutaro is one of the worst players in the entire major leagues.

how much is Zito worth though? (can the A's afford him)

Does the Oakland PA system ever shut up? It's starting to give me ADD. . .

209- yes they have. Eric Chavez for 6 years $66 million.

214

what is he saying?

cartoon type breaking ball (Zito) I'm sure the Dodgers will adjust

I doubt the rooks have seen a Zito-esque curve in the minors. If he doesnt start walking people, it might be a quick nite.

Ah, Zito's not so great. He's striking out a bunch of old guys and children. We need a mercy rule. Maybe a narrower plate. :p

It's not the announcer, it's the ambient noise, and drums, and stuff.

220 continuted- It seems to have stopped, though. So, my complaint was premature.

Fookie came to the park sober tonight.

Watch K Loft blow it

Maybe Furcal is beginning to break out.

222 Now, now....I guess he didn't get a ride from Esteban.

My reverse jinx worked!

3 straight hits. Nice adjustment.

Just another DP for Nomar

I probably hate GIDP more then caught stealings.

You really should send the runner somewhere in the first 2 pitches because if its around the plate, he is going to swing.

In order to walk or strikeout, you need to see a lot of pitches, Nomar doesn't do either very much.

Cancel 219. The old guys rule!

Mornin. I'm having trouble with gameday, but Zito looks tough. Looks like none of the Rooks can hit him.
He would look good in Blue.

off-speed pitch Tomko please!!

Not sure if this is something that will stick, in listening to the Vegas game, I heard that Houlton approached Ken Howell and they talked about an adjustment, he worked on it and so far against the highest scoring team in the PCL, Salt Lake, he's losing 1-0 after 6 innings with 8Ks, 4 hits, 3 BBs with only 87 pitches thrown.

fastball now please! (outside corner)

again

Re: 233

It's still AAA, but who knows...

WWSH

235 Do you plan to do this for every pitch. :)

Little too soon but a lot better than the last 5.

No Ks for Tomko, and he's given up five hits, so I'm still a bit worried about how long this lead will last.

WWSH

237

sorry, I just think like a ball player (pitcher/catcher can't help it)

Izturis at Vegas
.304/.411/.348

Yes .411 is his OBP. Is Izturis turning into a walk machine?

Give credit where its due.
The banjos came through for 2 runs.

what happened to Zito?

Kent looks a lot better. Looks like his wrist is stronger.

In AA, Jacksonville came up with 4 runs in the 6th and now lead 6-5 in the bottom of the 8th, they will have the Casey and Mark show to close out and possibly tie the Southern League record with 16 straight wins.

How can that be a swing compared to Cruz's "non-swing" in the first? That's absurd.

246

He's a rookie, hes not going to get any borderline calls.

Kids have to learn sometime.

With 1st and 3rd and one out in the bottom of the 11th, Fullerton had its runner on 3rd picked off by the pitcher!

The Titans have a runner on 2nd with 2 outs now.

Neither Miller of UNC or Roemer of CSUF were overpowering.

Fullerton has now had its SECOND batter of the inning reach on a dropped third strike.

1st and 3rd, two outs.

249 Bob, don't tell me he fell for the old fake the 1st and 3rd trick?

Bonds has homered off of King Felix in Seattle. So has Steve Finley and Randy Winn.

251
Nope, the pitcher threw straight to third base.

247 -- By the way, say it with me Nate:

Jason Schmidt...pass...

Fullerton failed to score in the 11th. More baseball in Omaha.

254

How come Steve?

I'm truly interested in Kemps 3rd at bat against Zito (I love baseball chest matches)

257 - But you must admit those matches haven't been the same since Morganna left the scene.

Morganna?

258

Where is Bobby Fischer?

I'm not saying it's gonna be a defining moment (pitchers always have the edge) I just wanna see what he dose.

257 Explain how boobs and baseball relates?

258- She ran on to baseball fields and kissed people. She may not have been much good for chess matches, but, well:

http://tinyurl.com/4v3lf

260

no punn [sp?] intended

259, that should be.

258 Oh, Doctor! A 98-yard triple-reverse ties the score at 63--63!
We have seen nothing but razzle-dazzle here today, three visits from Morganna the Kissing Bandit, and the surprising return of Jim Brown!--Homer the Heretic

Because he is old.

I simply cannot tolerate Tomko any more. He is barely tolerable with a 3 ERA; he inspires homicidal thoughts when he has a 5+ ERA and is giving up meatballs to Marco Scutaro.

257

I can't explain it, all I know is that it's fun to watch.

Not being a father, but from experience with my nephews when they were around the age of the kid switching hats with his dad, that a child of that age will keep up that game indefinitely.

In today's post 9/11 world, a sniper would take Morganna out roughly four steps before the foul line.

Are there people who buy a car based on its ability to tell them where to go for dinner? Even if that were a factor, wouldn't have to be pretty low on the list? If my car tried any of that presumptuous funny business with me, it'd end up in a junkyard in Riverside, but I'm touchier than most people.

A Hyundai just assumes you're going to stay home and watch Star Trek.

dose anybody agree with me that Kemp has a sling shot type of arm?

Paging Mr. Kershaw, you are needed in LA. Please bypass odgen, columbus, vero, jacksonville and las vegas.

whoe ever said Tomko was a fluke I'm starting to believe you. wowsers.

Chavy's the one guy you dont want have beat you on the A's.

dose anybody agree with me that Kemp has a sling shot type of arm?

I don't even know what you mean by that.

Schmidt is old, a possible former roids user, and doesn't have the best health track record. He's going to demand $10-12 million a year. I'd spend the extra $2-3 million a year on Zito.

Tomko is awful. How much longer can we tolerate having him in the rotation? He is garbagbe and will always be garbage. I'd trade him for Jeff Weaver in a second.

Maybe Houlton really would be better.

Tomko still has no Ks tonight.

WWSH

I just hate him. Everything he stands for. The hopelessness that comes with the pointlessness of putting up with a Tomko for two years. The bland porridge of another year gone by, another few million gone for despairing mediocrity. No hope. No joy. Nothing to look forward to. The abyss.

Re: 278

The Angels have been shopping Weaver, right? That might be an idea...

WWSH

Anybody see who got up in the pen? I couldn't tell.

Ah, it's Kuo.

I don't even know what you mean by that.
Kemp's arm is forked at the end, with a rubber band strung between the tines.

I hope Ned doesn't have any misplaced loyalty to Tomko from his days in SF.

WWSH

My dad just asked me how Cy Tomko is doing/snickers

He better sleep with one eye open tonight.

280 What are you trying to tell me? You like Tomko, or you don't?

284 Boy, that would make it hard to play chest.

The problem is that you really can't do anything with Tomko, they are not going to waive him, and between him, Perez or Seo, one of those guys has to start.

278 -

Jeff Weaver's stat line:
14 starts, 76.2 IP, 92 H, 16 HR, 20 BB, 46 SO, 3-9 W/L, 6.07 ERA.

Brett Tomko's stat line:
13 starts, 73.2 IP, 84 H, 13 HR, 19 BB, 46 SO, 5-5 W/L, 5.20 ERA.

Exactly what in there really suggests Weaver is any better?

Come on Tomko! At least get through the fifth without giving up any more runs. You can do that much for me standing up for your mediocrity today.

WWSH

We should also call up Houlton. He is capable of being an average pitcher, he has pretty good stuff including an excellent curveball. He's been good in his last few outings and can actually strike people out. You avoid flyball pitchers like the plague if they can't strike anyone out.

288 - And rather uncomfortable for at least one participant, I would imagine.

Re: 290

Grass is greener on the other side, I guess. That, and isn't Weaver's deal just for one year? Of course, I doubt the Angels will be thrilled about the second year on Tomko's contract.

WWSH

izturis just walked again.

Gamecast had that Chavez homer foul, then it curved around the pole at the last second. Apparently, Gamecast enjoys toying with one's emotions.

UNC takes a 6-5 lead in the 13th and have 2 on and no out.

Frustrated by gameday, I just saw Beltre make the best play I've seen at third in many years. He's at least got the D.

The problem is that Weaver/Tomko both arent good enough. Follow the Dbax lead and cut the guys that are hopelessly mediocre.

Either bring in good pitchers, or young guys that will improve.

I've had enough of conceding losses.

290- Weaver has one of the worst defensive teams playing behind him. He's also pitching in the American League. Weaver has proven to be an average, yet frustrating pitcher to watch throughout his career. Tomko has been a below average pitcher his entire career with the exception of 2 months for the Giants in 2004. Tomko is junk, Weaver is average. Weaver is also only under contract for 1 year.

277

to be honest I can't explain it, all I can say is that he loads & fires (quick arm) I think that helps him when he swings a bat. I hope that makes sense

The NL West is 0-2 tonight and trailing in its other three games. The Rockies and Cardinals played the intraleague game tonight.

Re: 299

Well, we've already brought up Billingsley. Houlton still needs to prove himself in AAA--if he can string together more starts, then I think we can consider a call-up. But we don't have all that many options for ready replacements in the rotation.

WWSH

295- what do you think is going on with Izturis? He's turned into the Venezuelan God of Walks™ in Vegas.

304

maybe it hurts his elbow to swing? who knows.

Man, you'd think after having Saenz as a teammate for three years, Zito would know not to throw him a high fastball.

301 As much sense as your statement on baseball chest matches.

277

there's quick loads & looonnngg loands don't get me wrong

Re: 304

Bad minor-league pitching, perhaps? I find it hard to believe that Izzy just suddenly learned the strike zone. His OBP has never been that good, in either the majors or the minors.

WWSH

Nice to see Kent back in full form. How's Oakland's middle relief this season?

WWSH

I really liked that swing by Kemp (curve & he was right on it)

Zito owns Kemp.

Please don't make me watch Jeff Weaver again. Oh God! Is this all there is? A neverending rotation of valueless righthanders. Have we finally reached the stage where we simply budget five million a year for the shiftless nothing that comes from the hope that some league average pitcher's last gasp at passable mediocrity hasn't passed him by before he signed his name on the dotted line. Are we faced with the interminable Death Valley of games without hope, children without dreams? Isn't there more than this? Please! Tell me there's more.

310 Oakland's middle relief is all on the DL.

Bison, meet the buffalo rifle.

Tomko's at 98 pitches through 5ip. They'd really be pushing him if they trot him out another one.

Re: 311 312

Has Kemp been able to adjust somewhat to Zito's breaking ball over the course of the game (problem with following the game via Gameday).

WWSH

313

To what end do we proceed?

312 Well he should be able to attack a guy whose been here for such a short time, remember though, he did adjust even in his 3K first game.

BTW is he pulling off the pitch or just swinging and missing?

call me crazy but I liked that at bat by Kemp, when he was thinking curve he was right on it (he fouled it) good at bat IMO

7-5 UNC. Bases loaded with one out in the 13th.

315 made me LOL.

Its Kuo time.

sling shot Kou pitching now

320 I understand and I agree.

Zito would own lots of rooks.
I doubt Kemp has ever seen a curve ball that good.

Tomko's Game Score: 28.

10 K's in 39 AB's for the chosen one. Roughly 128 k's in 500 plate appearances (not too bad for a power hitter). Just thought I'd throw that out there. Please don't kill me.

Kemp has shown a tremendous ability to adjust in his short time in the bigs--I'm not surprised he looked better in his later ABs against Zito. His AB against Pedro (the one with the dinger) was a work of art.

WWSH

325

his bat is so fast though... If he learns to let the ball go thrue the strike zone better LOOK OUT superstar in the making

300 - The complaint about Tomko's extra year is valid. But Tomko's DERA - 5.48. Weaver's - 6.21. Tomko's DERA actually gets worse to a greater degree than Weaver's. The question of NL v. AL is worthwhile, but is it a full point of ERA's difference, having already been adjusted for defense?

Kuo is a big guy.

270

If a sniper shot Morganna, he would have roughly 2 or 3 seconds to live before the angry mob got to him.

Last chance for the Titans, down 7-5 in the 13th.

Are there not righthanders from which proceedeth hope? That are not burdened with the despair of being pitchers for whom the only positives over several years aren't "veteran" and "inning-eater," both scarily accurate adjectives. Can we not lose with the knowledge that we might not lose in the future? Can we not lose with the optimism that comes from a pitcher that might learn, might grow, might learn a new pitch, might gain an insight -- might become great? Must we continue to serve as a way station for middle-age pensioners to enjoy their sloppy seconds on their way to well-deserved post-baseball obscurity? Can we at least dream as we suffer? Ned Colletti, give me back my dreams.

Kuo's really got to learn to throw a first-pitch strike.

WWSH

313- the best option would be releasing Tomko, but I doubt Colletti would that. If the options are Weaver for 1 year or Tomko for 2, I'll take Weaver. You make it sound like you are choosing between two types of torture, tooth extraction and nail removing.

Do most of the A's fans hate Jason Kendall yet? For all that payroll he's taking up, he's terrible.

Re: 337

After Jon's post about how OP might be due for some good luck, I think I'd like to see Perez get another start in place of Tomko.

WWSH

Ken lost 10 lbs because of Jason Kendal.

You make it sound like you are choosing between two types of torture, tooth extraction and nail removing

we arent?

328 - True, but aren't 6 of those 10 from today and his debut? I would imagine he should be able to adjust to better ML pitching and avoid striking out against pitchers with plus-level breaking stuff (just like MLB pitchers should adjust to the point where he's not hitting as well, but ostensibly should still be making reasonably common contact).

Arghhhh.... Kuo gets the first-pitch strike in, but still walks the batter.

WWSH

I've neglected the "Old Friend" alert when Melhuse bats.

335 Shylock, is that you?

loney is raking. 3-5, single, double, triple tonight. BA up to .376

keep on throwing them Kou (fastball)

335 - Steve's feeling particularly eloquent tonight, I guess.

FireBrettTomkoAndPleaseDontHireJeffWeaverAgain.com?

fastball, Martin please (k-forsure)

Finally Fookie

I always enjoy Steve's diatribes, but they seem even more eloquent than usual tonight. It's amazing how inspiring mediocrity can be.

337 - That's not torture! More like, fraternity hijinks!
(checks web site)
My bad - this isn't RedState!

Instead of looking for another crappy fifth starter, why not switch to a four man rotation? Sure Sele/Tomko/Seo wouldn't get any better, but at least we'd see less of them.

335 Are we not Dodger fans? Hath not a Dodger eyes? Hath not a Dodger nose?

Kuo's been pitching regularly now, for what, two seasons? A little more than that? If he can just get that first pitch strike over, he could even be a good closer. I'd love to convert him back to a starter, but the org might not want to screw with that reconstructed elbow too much.

WWSH

Wow Donnelly must have pissed off Scioscia and Black to have Carrasco pitch the 7th, unless Shields is out tonight and Donnelly is the 8th inning guy.

Broxton was a starter in the minors before this year, so it wouldn't be converting him. Little should at least start trying him out in long relief situations. At this point, barring a trade, he seems like our best option. I don't want to try to see if Tomko can go 7 bad starts in a row.

I'm not saying I'm "smart" by eny means but if your a pitcher you can see a guys swing & know what he was anticipiting (should have been a fastball call there by martin)

340 I'd rather spend that money on someone other than Jason Kendall, but if my choices are suffering with Kendall or suffering with Arthur Rhodes (where half his salary comes from), I'd choose Kendall.

In other words, don't like Kendall all that much, but it could be worse.

358

body languege says alot.

Ramon almost evoked the Grabowski Principle.

Man, that was awfully close to a home run.

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree that we should try Perez at least couple more times and put Tomko in the bullpen.

Tomko had more than his share of chances while Perez didn't get half as many chances as Tomko. Plus Perez is making 3 times what Tomko is making so we should try to recoup some of that salary.

357 - I've been wondering when Broxton will be returned to a starting role, not out of choice but desperation.

Anyone have the link to the new Baseball Prospectus page that shows the entire Dodger major and minor league system on one stat page?

Broxton is a starter, and the refusal to give him a shot is one of the great mysteries of this season. That, and whether or not Olmedo Saenz ate Jason Repko.

Jon are you going to the 23rd game?

I wonder if Zito has 1 more inning left in him? I assume Macha would prefer Zito to get the game to directly to Street, but I guess we'll see.

Top of the lineup is coming up in the 8th.

364 I'm no pitching coach but to convert a short reliever into a starter would probably have be done in the minors over a period of weeks to get the pitch count up, that is why when Kelvin Escobar came back, they made him a bullpen guy because they did not want to take the time to stretch out his arm.

368

I wonder if Kou has one more inning in him.

362 - I can't watch the game, but on ESPN's gamecast it looked like the ump was starting to squeeze Zito a bit. As an A's fan, does it look that way a bit to you?

353 - I rather like the idea in theory, but in practice with this rotation I think it's a bad idea. For one, none of our starters seem to go particularly deep into games, meaning the bullpen could end up seeing a lot of work (in longer-relief situations, meaning we could end up seeing lots of Seo/Perez/Baez/etc anyway).

Additionally, with Penny an injury risk, and Billingsley having a reputation for high pitch counts, the last thing I really would want to do is throw the two of them out there every 4 days instead of 5 with the fear of either one of them getting hurt or worn down prematurely.

Re: 366

Of course, if we convert Brox back to starting, we have to rely on Baez more. And he prefers to relieve now.

I really think we should give OP another chance. Or see who has the better outing first?--OP or Seo, and then let them take Tomko's slot.

WWSH

367 - Yes.

Why? Why must our shouts be as phantoms in the night? Why must we endlessly kick against the commonplace pricks? Why must we be ordinary? On Thursday, there were no guarantees. We might have lost by ten. We might have won by a hundred. But there were hopes that day. Inspiring visions of a rosy and not-too-distant future. Aspirations of not being like every other team with a failing multi-million dollar fraud on the mound; no, they were reveries of the Future. Writ large against the sky. A return to when legends were men and men were legends. Not merely the hacky mediocrities that became the inevitable dross of expansion and the Baseball Boys Club. Tomko, Weaver, and their ilk represent the hamster wheel of life -- always running, never getting anywhere because there's nowhere to go. I want off the hamster wheel. I want a plane ticket. I want to go to the World Series.

366 I have not seen anything and trust me I look for everything, that would indicate that he is going to be anything but a reliever. If there is a plan, it is held deep in the catacombs of Dodger Stadium.

If by "Give OP another chance" you mean sending him to Siberia, I couldn't agree more. If not, well, no.

366 - I was under the impression Broxton preferred the pen to a starting job?

Also, it could very well be that he's rather an Eric Gagne type (for those who don't believe that mediocre starters who become good relievers would have become good starters in the long run anyway). By only pitching one or two innings at a time he doesn't have to worry about trying to pace himself. Especially with his size, conditioning could indeed be a factor, even as young as he is. Somebody with better knowledge of his career in the minors might be able to better support this viewpoint, or contradict it.

365 - Speaking of BPro's stats, are the '06 minor league translations available yet?

how great dose that make us look, A left handed flame thrower, wowsers!!

362 No, I didn't think he was being squeezed.
368 Zito will probably pitch to Furcal and Lofton, and then Kiko Calero will come in for Nomar.

380 - Ok, thanks. Was just curious.

If we have to watch Perez, Tomko, and God knows who else over the last two years, then we might as well trade Broxton for Bob Wickman.

Bob Wickman= Broxton in 15 years?

Kou throws 92+ (left handed) why 'oh why?? (curve ball was thrown)

I was wrong about the Donnelly, Shields came in with the game tied in the 8th.

Well, I've still got high hopes for Kuo. Just need to iron the kinks out.

WWSH

371- That the starters haven't gone deep is an across the board problem, wouldn't seem to change at all with switching to 4 man. Grittle has been good enough at picking the right relievers, I don't think he'd turn everybody-plays on us.

There's a chapter on this in BP's book, Between the Lines. It's been long enough since the four man was wide spread, that there isn't a great way to predict whether it would tend to hurt more players, but their research indicated that it didn't, back when they were more common. That it isn't pitching a lot that hurts pitchers, but pitching tired. No good way to know if that's true.

Broxton = Bob Wickman NOW if they don't get him out of the bullpen and on the mound where he belongs.

why (curve ball)

384 - Because at the major league level, pure speed (from either side of the plate) does a pitcher very little good without solid offspeed/breaking pitches.

Brazoban could register in the mid- to upper-90s on the gun, IIRC. But after a few trips around the league, people started to key in to the fact that he threw almost nothing but heat, and he got shelled.

Is Vin getting paid by Juicy Fruit gum?

Kuo's outta gas.
I dont think he's good for more than 35 pitches. He threw 44 in 1.2 ip.

On a bright note, at least Tomko went 5 innings tonight and since Arizona lost we still are alone in 1st place.

389 Jeff Kent was saying the same thing, I think. The A's broadcast showed him on the mound, speaking with a lot of animation to Kuo and Martin, and I could clearly lip read the word "fastball".

It'd be nice to see Seo pitch a few scoreless innings and earn another shot in the rotation.

WWSH

390

I respect your opinion but you must look at the swing of each hitter!? & further more know there history!!

Did Vinny just say Seo was a salad-tosser?

I've been waiting for a manager with the guts to go with the four man rotation forever. Alas, it will never happen. MLB managers aren't as bad as NFL head coaches (when it comes to conformity and fear), but they're close. The Boston "Bullpen by comittee" lasted all of three weeks because morons were screaming.

I couldn't see the ABs, but I think Kuo's problem is pitching behind in the count, as opposed to pitch selection. He just needs to learn to throw strikes.

WWSH

On a bright note, at least Tomko went 5 innings tonight

We must live in a very dark world if thats considered looking on the "bright side".

How about if we just combine Tomko/Seo/Perez into next start where each pitch until they give up a run and hope we can stretch out at least 5 innings.

Maybe Wilson Alvarez is rested and ready to help.

Maybe Charlie Hough.

387 - It's true that our pitchers don't go deep now. But at least conceptually, I think that pitching consistently with a 4-day rotation would tend to exacerbate the problem. I realize I didn't get that point across in the least in 371, sorry.

And I guess I'm just leery of letting Penny or Billingsley overpitch. True, it -might- not hurt them (or they might get hurt anyway no matter what). But finding reasonable 5th starter should be less difficult than finding a replacement would be for the team's current and future (hopefully) ace. Even a bad 5th starter probably costs the team no more than 5 games (just going off the top of my head for standard win shares), and you can replace him at the end of the season with somebody hopefully more competent. But losing a guy like Billingsley to an Andy Ashby-like career because of overworking early in his time in the majors would be far more disastrous.

Now Seo looks OK in relief.
So, that will earn him another chance to start - and he'll get bombed. But in that game, OP will do well pitching mop-up so he'll get to start - and he'll get bombed...

We could at least start by using off days to skip one of them, though I recognize that the fans pay for the tickets regardless of whatever ragarm we decide to throw out there on a given day.

396 - And how familiar are you with the intricacies of the A's lineup? And is there some secret source of info that gives you better knowledge than the legion of scouts and coaches that inform Russ Martin - he of the 'Excellent Game Management' reputation?

Scrappy McBuntsAlot opens the 8th in great fashion.

My goodness.
You're a leadoff hitter.
The opposing pitcher is over 100 pitches.
Its the 8th inning.
You're down by 4 runs.

Why on earth would you try to bunt on the 1st pitch, against a tired hurler?

How do you donate money to the Armed Services? Do you go over to the Pentagon in the offseason and say "Here's a check. Go buy some body armor."

Jon,

I wanna ask you a question, can you tell how to pitch a hitter(rookie) just by the way he worms up his swing?

Calero should be pitching to Kent.

Re: 404

Yeah, that's probably what'll happen, but it's not as if we have any real good alternatives, right now.

WWSH

399 Amen. Stick a fork in Kuo-he's done until he can learn to throw strikes when he is scared. Some people make good starters because they have good stuff but don't pitch well under stress. Of course they have to learn, but they may get the chance.

Macha is playing with fire letting Zito at 107 pitches go up against a guy thats already hit 2 doubles off of him.

I'd go to the pen.

402 - Brian Holton, Dodger Nation turns its lonely eyes to you. Woo-woo-woo.

409 - You mean, can I? Or can anyone? The answers are no and I don't know, but I wouldn't think so.

411 - Hey, Nate? Or any of the other minor league aficionados... Any comments on how the rest of the minor league arms look?

Wasn't Hanrahan just called up to AAA? Any possibility he could get a look with a couple of good outings? (I'm not suggesting he should, but I haven't had a chance to really follow the prospects as much as I like so I'm curious...)

402 Jon, what did you say about attempts at sarcasm.

Nice audition for Zito.

Funny, it really looked like our pitching might be OK earlier this year.

414 Personally, I'd like a call to Tim Leary.

Jamie Shields 0, Cole Hamels -1.

Pix here for anybody interested: http://community.webshots.com/user/das411phils

Notice the pic of a sliced-up Aaron Rowand up on the videoboard, the funky W/L stats at the end, and no, sorry to disappoint but those women just asked me to take a pic of them because they forgot their camera. None of them is das411 :)

RE: 408

Not sure if the question is serious Bob, but there are various private orgs like Navy-Marine Corps Relief you can donate to.

WWSH

420-

Timothy Leary's dead.
No, no, no, no, He's outside looking in.

04/04/2006

General manager answers questions from fans online

spageticus: Any chance Broxton makes a return to starter?

Colletti: The chances that Broxton will return this year to the big leagues as a reliever are good. We don't have any intention of starting him right now.

56b56: Can Hong-Chih Kuo be a everyday starter?

Colletti: Moving Kuo into the starting rotation was discussed this past spring. We felt after much conversation, both from the medical department and baseball department, that it'd be best to use him out of the bullpen for the short while as he continues to build up arm strength after his two surgeries. But, your question is something we have considered as recently as a week or two ago. A year from now, we'll see where we're at, but the bullpen is where he'll pitch for now.

BP's VORP rankings of 525 major league pitchers (cumulative over the season).

Skipping down ...

305 Kuo
310 Billingsley
313 Gagne
346 Tomko
349 Brazoban
354 Edwin Jackson
382 Seo
446 Osoria
463 Carter
482 Hamulack
492 Jeff Weaver
505 Odalis
525 Joe Mays

421

where are the sal fasano close ups!??!

417 - I said "maybe."

416 Here's the problem, the only pitchers on the 25 man roster that can moved down to AAA are Kuo, Broxton, Saito and Billingsley. The candidates that people want to move would all have to be put out on waivers and go unclaimed and in Perez and Tomko's case, they would have to agree to it anyway. Sele would probably just leave if you tried to send him down.

Even to bring up Houlton, you would have to do something with one of those 3 guys.

Today's notes raised an interesting question about Izzy's return, according to the article, Cesar only wants to play the middle infield so he is really going to back up Furcal and Kent. We should get an idea about the rotation because they have to do something with those 3 unless someone likes Martinez gets waived or Aybar goes back down.

Almost forgot:

451 Erickson

422
Vin explained Zito's donations in full so it made more sense. He just said "Armed Forces" at first, so I had this image of Donald Rumsfeld going through his mail and saying "Oh look, a donation from Barry Zito! General Smith, you can go buy that new tank now!"

Time to call up Houlton, damn the egos.

Ah, AL baseball. No changes to the starting nine on either side this game.

Padres trying to uphold the honor of the NL West, leading 5-4 going to the bottom of the 9th in the OC.

Anyone with Gameday open on a Mac, what happens when you press the "home" key on your keyboard? Anything funky?

Despite playing in an AL park, the Giants started Bonds in left and have Alou as the DH.

Another run scores with an error to help it across down in Anaheim, so San Diego may gain a game tonite.

From Henson's notebook:
J.D. Drew was out of the lineup for the second day in a row, but not because of the thigh bruise that had him hobbling for a few days.
''It's a Zito reason,'' he said.
Manager Grady Little said the left-handed-hitting Drew hasn't been swinging the bat well lately and didn't want him falling into a deeper funk against Barry Zito, the Athletics standout left-handed pitcher.
''He hasn't been right at the plate for a few days and we want him to get it going,'' Little said. ''But against this pitcher it wouldn't be a good day for him to get it going.''

Closer Eric Gagne was prescribed a new anti-inflammatory medication to try to alleviate the nerve discomfort in his elbow . . . . The Athletics said Bradley is not expected to play in the series because of shoulder soreness . . . . Catcher Dioner Navarro, who was optioned to Las Vegas, batted .046 during his minor league rehabilitation assignment.

I have a "home" key on my Mac?

BTW the notes also said that Drew was mostly resting, still recovering from the quad and also Grady thought he had not been swinging well and going against Zito was not the best way to get out of it.

It's between "help" and "page up" on mine. Below F14.

415

you said>>You mean, can I? Or can anyone?<<

do you notice Kemps hips always pull out before a pitch?

Re: 430

I figured you might have been responding to something in the broadcast.

Navy-Marine Corps Relief, at least, actually has a pseudo-public affiliation. Although it's privately funded, it's "sponsored" by the Navy, and has the support of its leadership with regards to fundraising drives and facilities and the like.

WWSH

We ended it without kicking.

Zito's just an all around cool guy.

428 - Well, I'd be okay with sending Kuo back to the minors (especially after today =P) but nevertheless that's a good point, the whole 'finding space' issue. I'd think though that if the Dodgers were going to stand pat in terms of pitching, they'd probably try to make a move for a position player at the least anyway (with the seeming logjams both now and in the future at several positions). I'd think a move could be done that would free up space for one of the minor league arms to move onto the 25-man.

Really idle speculation anyway, as I don't get the sense that anybody in the minors really is major league ready anyway, but thanks for the clarification.

I wonder what will happen in Seattle, 2 out, no one on, 1 run lead and Barry up at the plate.

I have a Powerbook so I don't have an F14, just an F12.

438 - And if you have one of the Mac laptops, it's the 'Function' key plus the 'Left Arrow' key.

445 The only thing is that they really need all their relievers and they just can't keep Perez and Seo forever.

Thank god almost everyones losing in this GF division.

434 - Just how funky are we talking? Bootsy Collins, or Average White Band?

Putz threw a couple of nasty splitters after a 100mph fastball, and struck Bonds out looking.

446 Mighty Barry struck out looking, Seattle wins.

441 - I've never pitched above wiffle ball, I think the thing now is to throw as few fastballs to Kemp as possible.

437 - "Catcher Dioner Navarro, who was optioned to Las Vegas, batted .046 during his minor league rehabilitation assignment."

Wow, that's really bad. Something mechanically wrong as a result of the injury? Or just a small sample slump?

The good news is that a win in the next two games guarantees coming home no worse than being tied for first, which is better than when they left.

451 - September by Earth Wind & Fire

So, the answer's no?

447 meet 448.

The grand experiment of pressing "function" plus the "left arrow" while Gameday was open produced no results.

426 - Sorry Nate, but career AAAA catcher Chris Coste got his first two MLB hits tonight. And...um...yeah. That was about it.

446 - How close is Mister Bonds to the most ballparks HR'ed in record? Bob?

457 - Not on my end. Possibly it's a browser issue? Which one were you using?

Ah HAH. Jon, I know what you're talking about. You're on Firefox, huh? It opens up a debug window.

460
I believe that was stadium #36 for Bonds. He doesn't have all the opportunities like Griffey did.

446 Barry strikes out.

We have a bunch of old guys pitching in AAA/AA and I bet some of them would do fine( at least compared to what we are seeing. But as mentioned above, there is little room to move people. Of course, these old guys hold places one wishes held prospects.

457 - That is a tremendous song.
Jon, didn't "September" make an appearance in your Flight 93 essay?

Jon-

can you tell a hitters tendencies by how he worms up, in the batter box?

462 - Safari, but yes.

465 - Yes. At that moment, it was inappropriately funky.

But in general, do I remember the 21st night of September? I sure do. We were at my brother-in-law's wedding, and my wife went into labor with our first child.

ToyCannon on Brett Tomko (from yesterday):

Because so many DT posters hate Tomko and love the A's it will be even sweeter when Tomko defeats them tomorrow night. It he can't pitch a decent game against that lineup then I will concede defeat and will never post another line in his defense

So who's the last Tomko supporter now?

466 - I cannot tell a hitter's tendencies by how he warms up in the batter box. Maybe someone else can. Anyone want to step in?

466- Warms up, please. It's petty to mention, but you've made that mistake several times, so it seems like it isn't just a typo.

Just heard this on the radio, The Angels optioned Jered Weaver and activated Colon, who will start Sunday.

It will be fun to see the local media and fans react to this move.

469

Jon, when you play wiffle ball don't you look at guys that have quick hips & arms? how do you pitch them?

470 Maybe "worms up" is some sort of baseball lingo, like "Meat", "Hum You", or "Banjo." I'll buy into it.

Why would they option Weaver?
Doesnt Santana have options left?
Couldnt they just release Jeff Weaver?

Thats about as bad as the Dbax optioning Enrique Gonzales in order to activate Mulholland/Ortiz. Of course, that only lasted a week, so Jered Weaver might be back.

472- If I saw somebody do that while I was playing wiffle ball, I'd bean him during his next AB.

475 - No way, soft stuff low and away.

474 1. Just be glad you are not the guy taking the calls on their post game show.
2. I'm sure Santana still has 2 options left but he is pitching better than Weaver which leads you to...
3. Yes, but I think they want to see how Colon holds up before they move any of their starters and then they can still showcase Santana and Jeff Weaver.

Jon, when you play wiffle ball don't you look at guys that have quick hips & arms?
Hey, Jon is a happily married man (from what I gather).

Scioscia just basically gave answer 3 but its clear he is frustrated.

475

how would you react if he confronted you?

480 - Well if he's got quick arms and hips, I'd watch out for those lightning jabs to the face. Bob and weave, Andrew, bob and weave!

I'm asking this question becouse it happend to me, that's all, I wanna know how you would react?

482 - ... In wiffle ball?

I'm not Andrew, but I'd probably laugh and tell the guy he owes me a beer. The last time I checked most wiffle ball games aren't exactly the most competitive games in the world (softball can be another matter entirely, though).

First, I'd shriek like a woman and keep sobbing until he turns away in disgust. That's when it's time to kick some back. And then, when he's lying down on the ground, I'd kick him in the ribs. . . Step on his neck. . . And run like hell.

482 - Quite a coincidence that Andrew's non-sequitor response actually happened to you.

Spooky. Must be a full moon.

472 If you've never seen a batter before, and you don't have any scouting reports on him, then yeah, I might make some guesses on how to pitch to him based on how he warms up or how he stands in the batters box. If he crowds the plate, pitch him in. If he stands off the plate, pitch him away. If he looks like he's trying to pull the ball, soft stuff away.

All that stuff disappears, however, when you get scouting reports based on a large number of actual at-bats. So maybe in high school, college, or the low minors you might look at a guy and decide to pitch to him a certain way, but that should never happen at the major league level where you have scouts and video.

The only exception would be, I'd guess, if a batter makes a change in approach. If a guy who usually crowds the plate takes a step back, that tells me he's looking in, so I'd pitch him away.

[484}

I know Bob wouldn't act like that (have you seen him?) second of all there's an ego that plays into this, I think you gotta hold you're ground,what do you think?

If I could pick my pro athlete of the day, I think I'd go with............

David Duval

Shot a 68 at the US Open. Is within striking distance of the lead at a tourney (let alone a major) for the first time in I believe 5 yars. The last time he made a cut at a major was 2002. At one time he was the #1 player in the world. Just a great story. I'm not sure if it'll continue, bc Duval really dint play that great. He just sank most every putt imaginable. The last feel good story I can think of in golf that could rival this was Watson's run with his dying caddie 3yrs ago, or John Daly's win two years ago. With Tiger out, I hope Duval can make a run. It'd make for compelling TV. Phil trying to win his 3rd straight major is newsworthy as well, but I'd like to go with the underdog.

I know Bob wouldn't act like that

He might. He probably watches the Simpsons at least as often as I do.

485

I'll tell you how it happend, I played for the tesoreros, of Victoria, Jalisco (what's your email I'll send you a picture)

483

if it was wiffle ball, I'd laugh too, but I played hard ball.

489

He's a class act, I hear ya

Bob, like always great Zero to Hero award, you just know how to read peoples minds (I hate you for it, & love you for it)

ps I hate you because I wish I had your gift, but love your gift because I never thought somebohy thought like me.

o.k. this is awkward, I'm the only one posting here.

Hmm. 484 was pulled from a Simpsons episode (season 4, episode 73, Brother From The Same Planet). It reflects in no way at all what I would actually do if confronted in a wiffle ball game, or any other situation. I didn't take the question seriously, so I answered it with silliness. If someone seriously bristled at being beaned with a wiffle ball, I'd find some where else to play wiffle ball. If I played. Which I don't.

495 - That was the Big Brother episode when Homer takes care of Little Pepsi, right?

That one's in my alltime top 3 Simpsons.

Jon is it o.k. to call you a white brotha? (I've seen your pictures) one more thing is it o.k. to call Bob My brotha he's kind of my skin color.

496- Yup.

I predict that ToyCannon will have an email from Bob in his inbox tomorrow, asking about the seating arrangement for the big game.

I think Bob has en Eric Gagne type body, how do you guys think I look?

Jon Weisman looks like Lance Armstrong.

Like the drunk guy that wants waffles in Groundhog Day?

501- Flapjacks! Wasn't it flapjacks? I'm almost positive.

I'm right. It is flapjacks.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day

Dangit. I was just about to issue my mea culpa, but you beat me to it.

But still...that's who he looks like, right?

Jon, eventually you'll have to throw a "Favorite Simpsons Episode" thread up, perhaps on an off day. Me, I'll go with Homer the Heretic, which beats out Marge vs. the Monorail by a nose.

The one on the right:

http://tinyurl.com/g4wmn

505 - Other considerations:

The Cape Fear one. The Clown College one. The one where Homer thinks Bart is gay. The "DENTAL PLAN!...Lisa needs braces" one.

The dental plan episode is great..."SO WE MARCH DAY AND NIGHT, BENEATH THE GREAT COOLING TOWER, THEY HAVE THE PLANT, BUT WE HAVE THE POWER." One of the great protest songs of my lifetime.

Look at them all, through the darkness I'm bringing.
They're not sad at all. They're actually singing!
They sing without juicers.
They sing without blenders.
They sing without flunjers, capdabblers and smendlers!
--Montgomery Burns,

507--Homer's phobia is a fantastic episode

I resent you people using that
word {queer}. That's our word for making fun of you! We need it!! Well
I'm taking back our word, and I'm taking back my son!

510 -

Marge: He prefers the company of men.
Homer: Who doesn't?

Homer: There's only two kind of guys who wear those shirts: gay guys and
big, fat party animals. [sad] And Bart doesn't look like a big,
fat party animal to me...
Marge: So, if you wore a Hawaiian shirt, it wouldn't be gay?
Homer: Right. Thank you.

Homer: No I'm not, Marge! They're embarrasing me. They're embarrassing
America. They turned the Navy into a floating joke. They ruined
all our best names like Bruce, and Lance, and Julian. Those were
the toughest names we had!

My Lord, Lofton 3 hits 2 RBI's tonight.
The heart of the D's for the last ten days
Drew 1 rbi
Kent 2 rbi
I admit, this is slightly unfair.

Homer and Marge? we haven't lost yet.