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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Scintillating to a Fault
2006-06-17 23:13
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

When Oakland reserve designated hitter Antonio Perez was called out on strikes in the 17th, Dodger relievers had completed an improbable nine shutout innings, lowering the bullpen ERA this season from 4.60 to 4.41.

Unfortunately, they needed 9 1/3.

Russell Martin caught 258 pitches tonight. Jason Kendall caught 256.

Unless a roster move is made, at least two Dodgers who played the entire game tonight will have to start Sunday. Here's the lineup I proposed:

Starters:
Aybar, 2B (played half-game)
Martinez, SS (played half-game)
Garciaparra, DH (played whole game, but would only bat)
Drew, RF (DHed half-game)
Saenz, 3B (DHed half-game)
Kemp/Ethier, LF (played whole game)
Alomar, C (sat)
Cruz, CF (sat)
Penny, 1B (great bat off the bench)
Sele, P (sat)

Bench:
(All five below played in the field the entire game.)
Martin
Kent
Furcal
Lofton
Ethier/Kemp

If you don't like Penny at first base, then probably Kent or Furcal starts.

Update: Got to be careful about deadpanning on the Internet. Yes, I was joking about Penny.

Comments (69)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-17 23:23:50
1.   Greg Brock
Jae Seo is to the Dodgers as Fredo is to the Corleone family. Discuss.
2006-06-17 23:24:21
2.   sakesake
Seo = dead weight. Lets get rid of him. Hanrahan could do a way, way better job than Seo
2006-06-17 23:26:29
3.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
1 - "I'm smart!"
How Fredo's voice breaks when he shouts that... Too pathetic.
2006-06-17 23:27:44
4.   Midwest Blue
What's Japanese for "I'm smart!"?
2006-06-17 23:28:17
5.   MSarg29
I supported the Sanchez - Seo trade and I think its time to pull the plug. He can't be trusted in any situation.
I wonder what the effect of his participation in the WBC had on him?
2006-06-17 23:28:21
6.   Greg Brock
3 "I'm smaaaat" is the single most copied movie line by my friends and I. We do it about three times a day. Very nice.
2006-06-17 23:28:36
7.   Midwest Blue
* I mean Korean.

It's late and I must abdicate my Midwest Dodger throne.
Hasta la vista, baby.

2006-06-17 23:29:15
8.   Goiter
2 - Yes, Hanrahan would be much better.

Jae Seo should be sent to Vegas for now. I still think he has potential, but he just doesn't have much control right now.

2006-06-17 23:29:19
9.   trainwreck
How long does Greg Miller need to stay in AAA?
2006-06-17 23:30:38
10.   Steve
5 -- Agreed. Good trade, bad result. Vegas is nice and the hitters are like Marco Scutaro...oh oh, maybe he needs to go to Jacksonville.
2006-06-17 23:31:52
11.   Midwest Blue
5 I will say that if someone were to do an analysis, I bet you that too many players/pitchers who participated in WBC were underperformers and/or injury cases this year.

WBC is a terrible idea. I hope it disappears fast. If I were an owner, I'd say to my players "Choose: WBC or MLB, but you won't do both for me."

2006-06-17 23:32:47
12.   coachjpark
The Korean GodDodgers

If Jae Seo is Fredo, then Hee Seop is Sonny, and Chan Ho is Michael.

2006-06-17 23:33:24
13.   JoeyP
With Seo, its more/less someone was going to give it up tonite and it eventually was him. Its sort of unfortunate that Lofton actually hit that triple in the 9th, bc it probably will take out Martin/Kent/Drew for tomorrow's game.
2006-06-17 23:33:38
14.   MSarg29
I'd love to see Miller, but I don't know if we can afford to bring up another pitcher who needs to be constantly monitored. Kuo (health) , Perez (performance) and Seo (performance, health?) are in that positon now.

Maybe Hanrahan is the best option.

2006-06-17 23:33:46
15.   NPB
Did you see Grady grumbling to himself after the game? I don't think we'll be seeing Seo again.
2006-06-17 23:34:54
16.   sakesake
5

Whatever the effect the WBC had on him isnt good, stats are going against pitchers who pitched in the WBC with the exception of Johan Santana, who is pitching really, really well recently after struggeling in the beginning of the season.

A Few pitchers who are struggling after their participation in the WBC......

Peavy
Bedard
Perez
Seo
Colon

I am too bummed about this loss to post stats, but it seems like the WBC had some sort of negative effect on these pitchers. Its not like its one pitcher......its many.

2006-06-17 23:35:11
17.   JoeyP
The bright side is Danyz Baez probably had his best game as a Dodger. And the entire division lost.

Other than that, nothing of note.

2006-06-17 23:35:43
18.   Greg Brock
Seo, you're nothing to me now. You're not a brother, you're not a friend. I don't want to know you or what you do. I don't want to see you at Dodger Stadium, I don't want you near my bullpen. When you see our manager, I want to know a day in advance, so I won't be there. You understand?
2006-06-17 23:36:05
19.   Steve
While DFAing all three will be optimal, I am afraid DFAing KJW will mean more FTOGS and Cuban Missile Crisis. I have to sleep on this.
2006-06-17 23:36:46
20.   Linkmeister
Isn't Kevin Brown available this year?
2006-06-17 23:37:14
21.   Midwest Blue
18 You forgot the Kiss of Death.

Anybody got a fishing boat?

2006-06-17 23:38:18
22.   JoeyP
It'd be pretty awesome if Russ Martin did start tomorrow. I think if he were to do that, the legend of Russ Martin would grow almost to Matt Kempish proportions.
2006-06-17 23:39:19
23.   MSarg29
16 - Thanks for the WBC blurb. I was thinking about Bedard and Colon's struggles earlier today.

Maybe Seo needs a stint on the DL to rest his shoulder for a couple of weeks, then rehab assignment in Jacksonville.

I should just go to sleep. I cant believe its after 2:30.

2006-06-17 23:39:29
24.   the OZ
"Leave the resin bag. Bring the sunflower seeds."

Why not try Matt Kemp at 1B?

Matt Kemp doesn't sleep; he waits.

2006-06-17 23:40:43
25.   Greg Brock
Michael Corleone: If anything in this life is certain, if history has taught us anything, it is that you can kill Jae Seo.
2006-06-17 23:41:20
26.   MSarg29
25 - That's hilarious.
2006-06-17 23:41:48
27.   coachjpark
Let's not all be too quick to put blame on the Korean guy. Sure, he's struggling, but Seo's got a lot on his mind with Korea's match against France tomorrow given the fact that he can't watch the game... I mean, give the guy a break. The World Cup only happens once every 4 years...

Completely random here, but perhaps, we can pick up this guy:

http://tinyurl.com/gabn5

2006-06-17 23:42:05
28.   Midwest Blue
I predict tomorrow's line-up:

SS Furcal
RF Cruz
CF Kemp
DH Kent
1B Saenz
3B Aybar
LF Ethier
2B Martinez
C Alomar

2006-06-17 23:42:51
29.   Linkmeister
You know, I can take a base hit to beat us in a game, but walking the winning run home is such a miserably stupid way to lose. You got seven guys behind you; make the hitter hit the dratted ball!
2006-06-17 23:43:00
30.   Jon Weisman
I suggested Duaner Sanchez as a starting pitcher. I wonder how that would have gone.

I think you have to start looking at Broxton to start. Easier to replace him in the bullpen than to find a capable starting pitcher. And the fact that he says he likes the bullpen is neither here nor there. He can like starting too.

2006-06-17 23:43:19
31.   Greg Brock
Leave it to the guy with the last name Park to defend Jae Seo. I smell nationalism.
2006-06-17 23:44:12
32.   coachjpark
Just when I thought I was throwing outside -- the ball just pulls back in!
2006-06-17 23:46:03
33.   JoeyP
If they move Broxton to starter, they gotta do it now by putting him into the Vegas rotation. He's going to have to build up some stamina bc he's looked gassed after 40 pitches the last couple times out. Same thing with Kuo.

If Kuo or Brox could convert to starter, I think the Dodgers might have something good.

2006-06-17 23:47:40
34.   Greg Brock
Jon, I've said that for months. To amuse myself (and probably nobody else), I'll reenact that converstation:

Grittle: Broxton, you're in the rotation
Broxton: But skip, I really like relieving
Grittle: When I want your opinion, I'll give it to you rook. You're starting, shut the hell up.
Broxton: You got it Skip!

2006-06-17 23:55:29
35.   Uncle Miltie
30- I disagree. Broxton is our closer of the future. He doesn't have the stamina to be a starting pitcher. With his build, he just wouldn't last. Broxton also said that if the Dodgers asked him to start, he wouldn't want to. Gagne was a failed starter who became a great reliever. Why force a guy to do something that he doesn't want to do and isn't as good at? Broxton could probably be a decent starting pitcher, but he didn't have the same velocity and the stamina is a big issue. If the Dodgers want to call up a starter, Houlton wouldn't be much worse than what we've seen at worst, and at best he could give us some quality innings. Hanrahan is another option, but I'd like to see him pitch a few quality games before we call him up.
2006-06-17 23:59:37
36.   JoeyP
You never know what to expect from Blanton tomorrow.

He's thrown 3 shut outs (of at least 8ip).
He's had 4 games of giving up 6+ Runs.

I dont think tomorrow's game will be close. It'll be a blowout one way or the other.

2006-06-18 00:00:51
37.   Greg Brock
This is going to sound horribly old-school, and worthy of scorn, but when did a rookie's preference for his place on the roster become important? The Dodgers need another starter, he had good success in the minors as a starter, and his "build" is absolutely perfect for a starter. Granted, Broxton would be an outstanding closer, but who's to say he wouldn't be a very productive starter. Please don't kill me Miltie.
2006-06-18 00:07:41
38.   Andrew Shimmin
So, that was quite a thing. I was surprised when I got back in the car and heard Steiner talking. I didn't know KFWB ran replays of the games. . .

Will have to read the game thread to learn what KJW and FTOGS, mean. I think I get the drift of Cuban Missile Crisis.

2006-06-18 00:08:00
39.   Uncle Miltie
37- durability and stamina. Those are two things required of a starting pitcher. Broxton has never. Why risk messing with his career and psyche for short term gain. We have other options, Broxton shouldn't be one of them.
2006-06-18 00:11:37
40.   bhsportsguy
Making Broxton a starter doesn't solve the jam up on the roster with 3 middle infielders vying for 2 starting spots and 7 starting pitchers on the roster for 5 spots.

So Broxton becomes a starter, what do you do with Tomko, Perez, Sele and Seo, none of them have any real bullpen experience except Seo.

Now if you keep Sele and Chad as starters too, you would need to bring up another reliever (with no MLB experience unless its Carter) and thrust that guy into a pressure situation.

If the bullpen and roster situations were more secure, than maybe you could do this during the season, otherwise this would have to be done during spring training.

Broxton is probably our 3rd best reliever (some might say second) and that is more valuable right now to this team.

2006-06-18 00:13:44
41.   bhsportsguy
The Izzy move will be interesting because someone is going off the 40 man roster unless they decide to put Ledee on the 60-day list to buy them some time.
2006-06-18 00:14:39
42.   Greg Brock
I guess I'm just the minority opinion here. I am of the firm belief that Broxton is a tremendous talent, and that, unless he is the closer, his ability is wasted. Middle relief is hugely important, but I prefer not to stock it with 23 year old arms with tremendous stuff. Obviously, you all disagree.
2006-06-18 00:15:56
43.   Vishal
penny has the same kinda build as broxton...
2006-06-18 00:19:45
44.   Linkmeister
42 No, I don't disagree. Where is it written that kids are groomed to be closers? He's 6'4" and 240 lbs; that's bigger than many starters now and bigger than most were until the 80s or thereabouts. He can develop stamina.

Look at some of the great relievers. Elroy Face was tiny; Eckersley and Quisenberry were whip-thin. Look at Rivera, probably the best closer of the past 10 years; the guy's skinny as a rail.

Move Broxton to the rotation in LV and see what comes of it.

2006-06-18 00:21:52
45.   Uncle Miltie
Broxton weighs almost 300 pounds. How many starting pitchers who are overweight have been able to stay fat, pitch well, and stay healthy? C.C. Sabathia and he hasn't been the most durable pitcher either. Sabathia is 6'7 290, Broxton is 6'3 290. Some might say that most of the weight is in his legs or hips or wherever. It doesn't matter, he's still a very big man. We should be thankful that he's been such a good reliever and not mess with it. He's going to be the closer next year. For god sakes, he's 22 years old! Very few rookies just jump right into the closers role. Street is an exception, but he also pitched 3 years in college.
2006-06-18 00:26:58
46.   Vishal
[45] the dude is thick, but he's not ray king. come on.
2006-06-18 00:28:21
47.   Greg Brock
I don't know where most have you have been, and I don't presume to know how much you all follow the minors, but I've been scouring BA since we all said "you know, that 3b from Norfolk that the Mets drafted could be a steal," in 2001 and "I can't believe Zito fell to #9" in '99. And Broxton has been a starting pitching prospect since he was drafted. Fine, maybe you don't think he can do it, but some of us thought he was a starter right up until the day he came to the big club.
2006-06-18 00:28:58
48.   Linkmeister
The height/weight stats I cited are from Baseball Reference; I haven't seen him often enough to judge.
2006-06-18 01:02:32
49.   Andrew Shimmin
FTOGS = Fat Tub Of Goo Supreme (should have remembered that one)

KJW = Korean Jeff Weaver

2006-06-18 02:46:02
50.   natepurcell
Broxton can start but hes not going to be throwing 97mph heat for 7 innings. When he use to start, he would pace him self and his fb sat 90-93. If he would start, he would need to use his splitter more.

I wouldnt mind him starting, just realize that the game is going to take forever. Hes a very slow pitcher. Kind of like Penny. They take their time on the mound.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-18 03:50:08
51.   Greg Brock
50 I don't care about how long the game takes. I'm in no hurry. I'd take a 4 1/2 hour win over a 1 hr 55 min loss any day of the week.
2006-06-18 06:51:27
52.   Bluebleeder87
was Brad Penny playing first base? I didn't see the game, that's why I'm asking.
2006-06-18 06:54:16
53.   MartinBillingsley31
The thorn in the dodgers side are perez/seo/tomko.
The following are obp and slg stats vs those 3 guys and compare them to carter and hamulack (our former junk pitchers).
Carter 424 510
Hamulack 368 470

Perez 392 536
seo 348 525
tomko 334 521

All of them get hit harder than the junk, but 2 of the 3 don't allow as many guys on base as the junk.

Junk. lol!

2006-06-18 06:58:02
54.   Bluebleeder87
you guys remember Fernando playing first base once?
2006-06-18 07:03:52
55.   Slikk
Did I just read Jon advocating Penny to play 1B? That would be an adventure.
2006-06-18 07:17:04
56.   Bluebleeder87
55

it's actualy not a bad idea (big guy)

2006-06-18 07:43:06
57.   MollyKnight
brad penny at first. hahaha. i love you.

<3

2006-06-18 08:10:41
58.   ToyCannon
Since 6/2 over a stretch of 9 games pitched Baez has the following line.
9IP
1 ER
6 K
1 Walk

This followed his horrendous game on 6/2 when everyone wanted Baez dumped in the nearest river.

Dump Seo, when he has demonstrated the skills is jumping the gun. He has been crap this year, he will recover in time and you'll all be wondering why you were trying to replace him with Joel Hanrahan on June 17th.

2006-06-18 09:30:42
59.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Grady in the press at lesat is defending Seo to some extent. From Gurnick's write-up:

"You can't point the finger at anybody," manager Grady Little said, referring indirectly to Seo. "We had a lot of opportunities to kill them off, and we never did. We got outstanding work out of the bullpen. You can't say nothing but good things for what they did."

Of course, he's never verbally thrown Odalis under the train, but we'd hardly seen OP pitch.

WWSH

2006-06-18 10:16:35
60.   Vishal
[58] how about his inherited runners?
2006-06-18 10:23:59
61.   Steve
ooooooh -- 9 innings pitched. Let's have a parade. Or better, a blockade.
2006-06-18 10:24:48
62.   Blu2
How about letting Russ play first today? Compared to catching, that is like a day off....
Page two: Russ was a third baseman 3 years ago; let him play third and put Saenz on first...
Page three: let Russ DH...
2006-06-18 10:45:16
63.   ToyCannon
61
Was Snidely Whiplash your favorite character as a kid? TJ Simers must be your favorite writer.
2006-06-18 11:00:10
64.   Steve
If ad hominem attacks are your method of avoiding the central issue, which is why one would only pay attention to the CMC's "good results," while ignoring his "bad results," well...then...I guess that would be my strategy too.
2006-06-18 15:30:07
65.   StolenMonkey86
Billingsley's the bat you want.

Anyone notice that Sele has not struck anyone out in his last two starts?

Anyone else notice that Odalis Perez's last 5 innings with Sandy Alomar behind the plate are scoreless?

Finally, anyone notice that the Pirates are playing in Dodger Stadium this weekend? Odalis might be worth a shot.

2006-06-18 15:53:40
66.   ToyCannon
Hard to reply since I have no clue what you just said. I'm just a programmer who only needs a little understanding of the English language to get through life. As for Baez I'm just submitting the data of his latest results which are positive. I didn't understand the need for the mockery of the effort to show what he's done lately.
2006-06-18 16:26:02
67.   JoeyP
Apparently since ToyCannon is no longer allowed to defend by Brett Tomko (by his own volition), he's taken up the torch for Danyz Baez and Jae Seo.

To each their own I guess.

2006-06-18 19:13:43
68.   Underbruin
See, THIS is why we need Jeff Weaver back on the team. He could hit surprisingly well for a pitcher (career BA .217, which is pretty solid for a pitcher I believe).

On another note, re: 64 and 66 -

I'd say that it's not ignoring his bad results to note that Baez has pitched well in his last 9 games. Looking at the game log, he didn't allow any inherited runners either, so that 1 ER is the only one that's crossed the plate while he's been on the mound in the last two weeks.

Now, it's true, one major blow-up (like he seems to be periodically prone to do) and a lot of that good work becomes somewhat less notable, but his WHIP and K/BB rates are pretty good. Though he's allowing opposing batters a pretty high BA against, his OPS against is the lowest its been in his career (.670, pretty reasonable).

I'd say he's overpaid, but now that he's on the team he should be evaluated independent of his contract, in terms of value as a player (in other words, since the team isn't going to gain anything extra by DFAing him or sitting him on the bench, examine either a trade or his use as a player). I'd be happy to package him in a trade with a GM who loves those 41 saves from last year and pretty good ERA for this season.

But barring that, he's probably the 3rd-best reliever on the team behind Saito and Broxton and could well be a valuable component of the team, especially since our starters seem to be leaving games in the 6th and 7th inning for the most part, we need that middle relief to be reliable. And like it or not, he's the best option in that 6th/7th inning slot, getting to Brox and then Saito.

2006-06-19 02:19:35
69.   Andrew Shimmin
Baez did allow one inherited runner to score in his last nine IP (the runner was on third when he came in, though). He's done fairly well, of late. No harm admitting it, but it also doesn't prove much.

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