So, did you open up a new bag of potato chips? :) vr, Xei

Riiiip ...

And today, the Dodgers are still the Dodgers.

Yup. And Lays is still making chips. Munch as many or few as you want. They'll make more whatever you decide.

I guess there's no shame is losing all these games to Minnesota and Oakland. They're a lot better teams than the Dodgers are, and they are playing in a much tougher league. Now we're about to play one of the few American League teams that isn't clearly better than most National League teams. But even the Angels have a better starting rotation than every NL team except maybe the Mets.

My optimism about Hendrickson is partly due to the fact that he's spent his whole career in the AL so far -- the AL East, for that matter, which has traditionally been the best of the best (although I think the Central passed them this season.) Hendrickson will come over here and face a steady diet of San Diego, San Francisco, Arizona, Pittsburgh, Washington, etc., and he'll feel like he's back in AAA. Every NL lineup except the Mets and the Cardinals has holes. What team presents any NL pitcher with a lineup approaching what the Yankees, Red Sox and Chisox put out there?

In the event Hendrickson does well and catches on with the fans, do you think they'll start selling fake beards at the souvenir stands?

Betcha Can't Comment Just Once

Riiiip...

The bag or your pants...?

6 The two are correlated.

Angels GM has offered me Joe Saunders for Andre Ethier or Kelvim Escobar for Ethier and Odalis.

I like both.

7
And the relationship is probably causal.

I'm sure this was mentioned earlier, but Hendrickson went to the same school as Sele.

And Jon, living on the East Coast, I know what it's like to talk to yourself about the Dodgers.

8

No on Escobar until he deletes that MySpace page.

8Kelvim Escobar for Ethier and Odalis.

Grab Nate...Grab like something that grabs very well. A claw, maybe. Yeah, grab like a claw.

I dont like Escobar's injury history.

13 I don't like Perez's history of being a fat load. I'd say something about Ethier being a fourth outfielder, but I know you disagree :)

Escobar is great when healthy, but haven't I been reading about decreased velocity to go along with that extension he just signed?

I don't like Perez's history of being a fat load

I believe the technical term is "Fat Tub of Goo"

I like Kelvim as a reliever not so much as a starter. Is he really worth it to get paid that much to be a reliever?

Golly. I spent some time reading through the previous couples days posts and boy oh boy are my sides hurting from laughing.

I didn't realize Mark Hendrickson was EVIL. If I didn't know any better I'd have to guess that most of the posters think Hendy's Lucipher himself. LOL.

And to think Hendy's been lucky all season while OP has been unlucky all season. It was hard to just type that.

You people fail to realize that Seo and Beaz, on paper, are good trades, just like the Hendy deal.

Lets examine the Seo/Hamulak for Schmoll/Sanchez deal.

Seo was something like 8-2 with a sub 3 ERA in the 2nd half last season. Thats a sub 3 ERA in a lot of innings. Why would anyone expect that to double? Schmoll is complete trash who will never dawn a major league uniform again. Sanchez is the only person Midas has ever traded away that hurts a bit.

Trading for Baez made all the sense in the world. He proved he could close out ball games. He saved over 40 the year before. Midas was being proactive. He wasn't going to wait for Gagne to get hurt. He went and got him a 40+ save man. Not too many have that on the ol' resume. And look what he gave up. 2 pieces of garbage. Jackson is TERRIBLE and Tiffany is a BUST. The Drays made a TERRIBLE trade. They could have had so much more for Baez at the end of last year. They got stuck with trash. LOL. Carter was a no risk throw in that didn't pan out. Big deal. He was thrown into the trash bib in Vegas where he belongs.

And now the boys in blue get Hendy and the majority of you act like the franchise is crumbling. LOL. Navarro is overweight garbage. He's a scrubby Mike LaValliere. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Hendy has to just keep pitching like he's pitching and the boys in blue will win 60% of his starts.

Hey, I didn't make a comment either. Part of the reason is I missed the game, being at the Dr. office and all. My Dr. is in Van Nuys and when I got out at noon, it was 104 degrees. I almost melted into Odalis-like goo.

15 First you refer to his MySpace page and then you go to the none-too-subtle double entendres--"decreased velocity" "extension"... this is a family site, you know.

:)

You know, the more I think about Ethier, it's not that he's a fourth outfielder, it's that he's a corner outfielder on teams like the Brewers, Pirates, Royals, or Blue Jays. Kind of a 3.5 outfielder. But not on a corner outfielder on a "First Tier" team.

20

It's gotten to the point where I don't even realize I'm doing it.

18 As an older Jewish friend of mine is fond of saying, "You may be right."

23
He may be crazy. But it just might be a lunatic we're looking for...

How many different ways can it be explained that 40 saves for one of the worst franchises in the history of baseball (albeit a young one) is about as meaningless as a statistical measure can be?

Gagne's save streak is meaningless itself. It was his ungodly K and BB rates that made him great, not the fact that he didn't blow any three-run leads in the ninth-inning for two years.

Steve, there is a call for you on line two. Steve, line two.

I take a road trip to visit some Civil War battlefields, and lo-and-behold, all this happens. A game out of first, and turmoil over a trade.

Jon's post once again reminds me of the great puzzle of baseball fanship. Why in heaven's name do we care so much? On a rational level, this stuff really doesn't matter, but, well, that's not the way it works.

Anyhow, I don't like the trade, but as some others have said, even in baseball terms, it isn't the end of the world. I still like DePo more, but Choi's and Perez's struggles only show what DePo himself said--baseball GMship is as much art and science. I liked my chances with him more, and I have my worries about Ned, but the net affect on the team this season won't be huge.

WWSH

Are the Dodgers a first tier team Greg? I have been asking myself that question for about 10 years now and would have to say.....NO.

Andre is a nice player, a fourth outfielder. That does not mean we should trade him. All times need solid role players.

Same thing with Aybar, he is no future all-star, but a decent back-up, that does not mean we have to scrub him to some other team.

Let us keep our guys, enjoy the season, and look for solid free agent help in the future.

The Hendricks trade was not that BAD, just a little pointless. In the end, I do not think he is going to be any better or worse then Seo or Odalis.

I still think (and hope, alot), that Odalis can pitch atleast at a league average level.

I thought this would be an appropriate time to post something I've been thinking a lot about lately. I very much wanted to attend the Dodgerthoughts game at DS. I was planning on going to the game separately and then coming by to say hello. As it turned out, there was a mix up with tickets and I ended up not going at all. But the possibility of meeting everyone from this board presented an interesting conundrum.
I am the ultimate lurker around here. I've checked the board basically every day for over two years. I bet I've read 95% of the comments in that time. I feel like I know all the regulars like good friends. Things that happen at work will remind me of people from the board. At this point I can read through the posts without looking at the subject lines because I know immediately by tone and content who most of the posters are. When I'm arguing with someone in real time about the Dodgers I'll frame both sides of my own argument and think to myself "nate would say" etc... My mom even reads the board and we regularly refer to posts in our discussions.
How strange is it that if I were to have approached the group at the game no one would have any idea who I was? Does this make me selfish? Am I missing out? It's such a strange social phenomenon. And I wonder how many more there are like me on this board?
There are times I would like to open the bag of chips and even feel that I have some sort of duty to do so. But then again, there are others who know more about just about everything that has to do with baseball. For someone reason on this off day I feel the need to wax poetic and say thanks for being so great Jon (and everyone at DT). It has been such a pleasure to be (however quietly) a part of this community for the past few years. Perhaps I will now put down the chips and receded back to the corner and try not to laugh too hard at Bob's next joke. Or maybe the chips will be too good...

29 I have done much of the same! I have read for over a year and just started with a few comments recently. My English is not the best, so I have been shy.

One of the things that pushed me over the top to participate was the passing of my #1 "Dodger Friend". He and I would discuss the Dodgers and baseball at length, with his death, I miss the discussions.

This place has had an even greater meaning to me in the last few months.

29 Great, the brand new guy has already contributed more introspection and depth than I ever will. Thanks for nothing.

And welcome aboard :)

29 - I really enjoyed that, njr. Feel free to comment as much or as little as you like, but know that you are always welcome.

I don't know if this relates, but to whatever extent people are afraid to comment because they're afraid of being ragged on too hard ... I'd like people to keep that in mind when they respond to things they don't agree with. This place isn't supposed to be a playground where only the toughest survive. It should be a place where, as corny as it sounds, everyone gets to play if they want.

Dialing down the hyperbole whenever we can is one idea I have. I think we can have plenty of fun without exaggerating things. And in general, there's still too much mocking of other people, on all sides of the conversation. There's still too much mocking of opposing points of view instead of responding respectfully.

Just something to keep in mind. We're pretty good, but we can do better.

The Hendricks trade was not that BAD, just a little pointless. In the end, I do not think he is going to be any better or worse then Seo or Odalis.

I still think (and hope, alot), that Odalis can pitch atleast at a league average level.

GIVE UP ON OP. He's garbage. Period. It doesn't matter that he was league average in the past, he's a league offensive slump buster now.

Also, I would have more hope for Hendrickson to pitch near, or a little below league average, especially looking at what he does on the road.

30 - Welcome to you too.

31 - Humbling, isn't it?

Colin Cowherd, ESPN radio announcer, made a comment on his radio show that is being used as a promotional spot. He asked "what is the difference between Angel fans and Dodger fans? You can tell the Dodger fans because there the fans who have been depressed for ten years".

I think there is some medical truth in that statement. I myself have been suffering from depression for many years now and I know that the bi-polar disorder known as the Dodgers has contributed to many of the pharmaceutical companies profits. I think maybe the Dodgers should be a sponsor for Lexipro.

I also am really strongly committed to the belief that the pitchers we picked up in the off-season were competent pitchers and that Grady Little's misuse of the bullpen created a trickle down effect that caused both psychological and mechanical problems. I still have no logical explanation for his abnegation of the spot lefty. He has rarely, if ever, used it all opting instead to use his lefties in righty type situations. Also, I do think that one of his fatal character flaws is his fear of going out to the mound due to the Donnie Moore/Bill Bucknerish nature of his destruction in game 7/ALCS. Not to excuse the pitching performances but this has been a big contributing factor to the staffs continued problems.

The best way to overcome Dodger-related depression is to stop caring and start laughing.

33 I will keep pulling for Odalis, if only because it helps the Dodgers' push for a division title and play-off birth.

I really think to myself, can this guy really have slipped this much and how much of it has to do with bad luck?

I am not expecting much from Odalis, but hey, we are Dodger fans, we can always hope.

Another point I'd like to add on Baez which people 'conveniently overlook' or just plain 'ignore'.

BA against by year.
2003 - .229
2004 - .237
2005 - .244
2006 - .298

OPS against by year.
2003 - .673
2004 - .685
2005 - .674
2006 - .749

41 saves in 49 opportunities including 7 of 7 against the Yankees. (But there's no pressure pitching against the Yanks. LOL)

I guess Baez was just "LUCKY" over the course of 3 full seasons. ::rolls eyes::

Correction:Grady Littles (possession error)misuse of the bullpen...

Colin Cowherd, ESPN radio announcer, made a comment on his radio show that is being used as a promotional spot. He asked "what is the difference between Angel fans and Dodger fans? You can tell the Dodger fans because there the fans who have been depressed for ten years".

I think there is some medical truth in that statement. I myself have been suffering from depression for many years now and I know that the bi-polar disorder known as the Dodgers has contributed to many of the pharmaceutical companies profits. I think maybe the Dodgers should be a sponsor for Lexipro.

I also am really strongly committed to the belief that the pitchers we picked up in the off-season were competent pitchers and that Grady Little's misuse of the bullpen created a trickle down effect that caused both psychological and mechanical problems. I still have no logical explanation for his abnegation of the spot lefty. He has rarely, if ever, used it all opting instead to use his lefties in righty type situations. Also, I do think that one of his fatal character flaws is his fear of going out to the mound due to the Donnie Moore/Bill Bucknerish nature of his destruction in game 7/ALCS. Not to excuse the pitching performances but this has been a big contributing factor to the staffs continued problems.

35 - Really? I think with just a few exceptions, Little's handling of the bullpen has been good. He's reacted when pitchers have shown they haven't had the stuff - moving Baez down the food chain and Broxton up, for example. There are much fewer instances of a Dodger starter being left in too long than there were last year. And frankly, too often other managers relegate lefty pitchers just to facing lefties when it isn't necessary.

The last thing I'd say is that Little has been perfect, but I think mainly the problem is that the starters get pounded half the time.

38 Thanks for the stats.

You guys can rag on me later, but I think Baez will turn things around.

No, he will never be Eric Gagne, but I think he will give us a better performance before all is said and done.

WHO will be available in the free agent market, that is what I want to know. We have some rookies priced below their worth the next few years, we need to take advantage of this situation and sign some good players. I just hope there are guys out there, especially arms.

33. I've come to the conclusion OP should still be given a chance becuase DePo (aka God) signed him and Hendy is just "so what" because............nevermind.

Uh, hello bluetahoe, Baez gets no excuses because unlike Perez, he was not aquired by DePodesta.

34 Yes.

Edit 44, Baez was not signed by Depo, like Perez was resigned by Depo.

The Pirates are a few outs away from ending their lucky 13 game losing streak. Jim Tracy, this chip's for yoU! vr, Xei

35 I still secretly blame Rick Honneycut for the pitching staff's woes. We've seen no turnarounds for any of the pithchers who have been struggling. You would think a good pitching coach could get in there and try to correct mechanics or whatever. Im also starting to wonder what effect Martin's pitch calling is having on games. It seems like alot of our staff is afraid to throw strikes, in particular during 3-2 counts. I'd say a good amount of those counts I've seen during games have resulted in walks rather than strikeouts. Perhaps we dont have 'strikeout' pitchers, but I'd like to see people try.

47. nevermind, ChiSox tied it up as I wrote #47. I take my chip back (Crunch). vr, Xei

Colin Cowherd, ESPN radio announcer, made a comment on his radio show that is being used as a promotional spot. He asked "what is the difference between Angel fans and Dodger fans? You can tell the Dodger fans because there the fans who have been depressed for ten years".

And the angel fans are giddy over their 7 games under team?

[hangs up phone]

[blocks number]

I do agree that the starters have been mashed and that has created more work for Grady, but even when we were league lowest in staff ERA and getting more quality starts Grady seemed kind of clueless on how to use the pen. Granted, it was a brand new team and he had his 10-12 game "experiment" figuring out their roles, but he never really had to do this in Boston. It's just a perception, but I find myself not understanding his moves most of the time. (Did I just set myself up for a punchline?)
But in all honesty, he has to be a contender for Manager of the year in the NL for keeping this ship afloat with the decimating injuries we've had.
All eyes are now on Ned, I suspect. But is there really any motivation for him to do anything more than get "enough" to win the west?

32-- Thanks Jon. In my case it's not fear of retribution but rather that I often feel someone else will make my case better than me with better numbers to back it up.

44. I mean, I don't understand why there seems to be so much hate directed toward Ned. I'd hate to see where we'd be with DePo still around. We'd surely be stuck with Choi who you'd want on the DL and Bradley who you don't want on the DL but always is. And I firmly believe prospective free agents would have shyed away from LA had Depo still been GM.

55 Free agents go to the team that offers them the most money over the greatest number of years. You can thank the mafia-like players union for that.

I can't really stand what's on the local sports radio talk shows anymore. It seems they are more "shock jocks" than anything else. They just take up some extreme position on something or say something outlandish just to ruffle feathers and get people to call in. They often don't even talk about sports, but the soap opera aspects of sports, which is a HUGE turnoff to me. And to top it off this morning when I ejected the Wiggles tape out of the cassette player in the car Cowherd was blabbing about college football coaches. Personally, I can only stand college football during football season. I listen sometimes just out of hope that they will be discussing actual sports, but between Cowherd, McDonnel, Mason, Patrick and Rome... eee-gads. What's the deal with people reading faxes to the radio host? When will DT have it's own radio show?? :)
vr, Xei

Can I bring up a new discussion, well, new to me...

What does the Dodger GM, Ned, need to do to make this team an A level squad?

And I firmly believe prospective free agents would have shyed away from LA had Depo still been GM.

Thank God Ned was able to coax Furcal, Tomko, Alomar, Mueller, Martinez, etc. to hop on board the Dodger train.

Lest we forget (and hat tip to Rob at 6-4-2): Happy Birthday Pedro Guerrero.

That seems weird to say in light of his recent history but, man, was he fun to watch at the plate.

56. Nomar got a 1 year deal. I don't think he'd be dawning the blue had there not been a regime change.

48-I absolutely agree as well. There has been almost nothing mentioned about Rick Honeycut and his part in the collapse. I think that at least should be mentioned in the media. Problem is, as I understand it, here in Los Angeles if you criticize the organization openly you may very well lose your press credentials, which happened recently to a writer, uh, can't remember where and who. Someone help me out.
If this were New York, which has a savage press power, any recalcitrance on the part of the PR guy (my apologies Mr. Rawitch) would be met with a loud boot to the posterior and out onto Fordham road or Steinway. There is none of that pressure in sunny LA

57 I can deal with most the talk radio clowns, but I really dislike Joe McDonald. I will leave it like that. Dave Smith rubs me the wrong way, as well..

55. The main difference I see between Depo's team and Colleti's team is that help from the minor league system was available for the latter. Both had to deal with injuries, probably Depo had more injured starters, but this season isn't half over yet.
vr, Xei

59. Why do you 'conveniently' leave off Nomar? LOL.

I'm kind of astonished that here we are, 1/3 of the way through the season, and no one has suggested that Honeycutt should be teaching our pitchers the nail-file trick (or whatever it was he got busted for that time).

Have we all become Goody Two-Shoes? ;)

"Horse head in the bed, table 56. Horse head in the bed, table 56, please."

61. Nomar wouldn't come to the Dodgers under Depo? Or Depo wouldn't have signed Nomar? I want to make sure I understand what you are trying to say. vr, Xei

67 "Mr. Fehr is a man who insists on hearing bad news immediately."

62 That was a couple of journalists in Kansas City that kept bagging on the Royals owner for his treatment of their GM leading up to his firing.

Hey njr! Nice first post. Now you will scare all the other lurkers here. ;)

"Man, that poster is so eloquent and has been hesitant to post here. How am I ever going to post?"

So I say, for one post, on an off-day, Lurkers Unite.

"My name is Bonnie and I'm a Lurker and a DT addict"

And a walk-off by local boy Freddy Sanchez finally gets the Pirates a win.

71 That's almost a tradition at one of the high-traffic political blogs I read, bonnie, typically on a day when nothing happens on the Libby case.

Unlurker Day!

njr and El Dios Azul, welcome and bienvenidos. No more shyness, please.

55 - Ned has plenty of supporters here.

I think a higher percentage of commenters here were DePo supporters because there were few other places for them to go without being attacked in ways more vicious than I would ever allow here.

Conversely, there are plenty of places for Ned supporters to go, so it seems like there are fewer of them here.

Beyond that, I think most people here look at the moves both GMs have made and like some and dislike others. The idea that we will defend one transaction to the death because of who made it is, as was implied in 44 and 46, is completely false. Example: Do you not see the many people criticizing Odalis who by and large liked DePodesta?

In other words, plenty of people here like and dislike moves by both general managers. Making generalizations in order to martyr your own point of view serves no purpose.

njr wrote: Thanks Jon. In my case it's not fear of retribution but rather that I often feel someone else will make my case better than me with better numbers to back it up.

To which I reply:

Where's the problem? Heck, I rely on the fact someone is going to make a better case than me. Then, I take the information I get from this site and sound smart to my friends.

My secret? I don't do research. It's tiring, sometimes confusing and gets in the way of my snack and snooze time. So, I contribute by bizarre obsessions with fringe first basemen with the aural power to change the fate of a team by his mere presence (this player really, really, REALLY needs no introduction).

Seriously, welcome aboard. If your first post is any indication, my role as resident nutcase is secure in the DT firmament while you'll have plenty of company in the house of reason. Just know that the crazies on the DT board (there are a few) get stared at more at the DT outings. It's a nice little perk.

No matter what you think of Ned (and I'm a fence-sitter at this point), the fact is that he traded Jackson, Tiffany, and Navarro, three kids all under 25 years old, and netted Mark Hendrickson, Danys Baez, Toby Hall, and Lance Carter.

Whether those kids pan out or not, they all had value beyond what the Dodgers received in return. Baez blew eight saves last year, Carter is a marginal middle reliever (now in AAA), Hall is a career backup, and Hendrickson is a below league average pitcher (this year's anomaly not withstanding).

I don't think Colletti got blown out of the water in any of those trades, and I don't think the anger is justified for this most recent trade, I just don't think it's a good sign of things to come.

The ones who say that Ethier is a 4th outfielder, are you saying that he will be like Todd Hollandsworth? (A .273 lifetime BA with 94 HR at 33yrs old)

Ethier is doing very well in his rookie year. Remember Repko? So many ragged on him after (and during) his first season.
I say that you will not know what he has until he plays a few seasons. Do the Dodgers have the patience to see if he is an above average hitter?

77 Exactly. What I would have said except, you know, mine wouldn't have been as good.

It sure seems like there's a whole bunch of moaning and whining. It's easy to look back and say such and such should have been done. I can't see anyone on here putting together a better team this season than Midas put together. Maybe so. Who knows?

79 I have the same problem with Greg. I'm working on it, Marty. I'm working on it...

I'll take a .675 OPS against reliever who saves 40+, and a starter going up against TOR/BAL/NYY/BOS 40% of the time posting a 3.80 ERA......

for 3 pieces of GARBAGE in Jackson, Navarro, and Tiffany any day of the week.

71-- Welcome to the group Bonnie. I have a feeling there are many more of us.

76--

I miss him too. I remember the first time