As per the "She is gone" comment, it seems like the Dodger organization is constantly trying to evoke victorious memories (e.g. the recent1981 celebration) in a bid to stir fan sentiment and, of course, ticket sales. When will they realize that winning will be the only thing to stir people's emotions? Of course, this is a general comment as the front office has been generally attentive to on the field needs this year, as opposed to others. I'm just saying I think they should reel it in a bit and only take the celebrations out of the closet when absolutely necessary.

1.5 behind or 1/2 ahead, that is the question. vr, Xei

1 - I see nothing wrong with trying to connect the Dodgers history and tradition to the current fan experience. It's a cynical mind that jumps to the conclusion that it's done with underhanded intentions.

Patially carrying over from the last thread but appropriate here... Exactly which bullpen/Saito moves (other than the Chicago tie-game) do people disagree with?

I also liked Broxton in the 8th yesterday and think he is becoing something special. Actually, I whole heartedly agree with everything Jon wrote today, especially about Lugo. I still understand the pick up but I think it's time to stop counting on him and using him in the 3 spot over Drew make no sense to me at all.

3- Underhanded intentions? He didn't say that. It's just that there are certain things that you don't trot out every day. Like the Stadium Bunting.

4 - More directly responding to 1, not Jon's comment.

Celebrating the 25th anniversary of the '81 champs as a way of stimulating season ticket sales? Of course that's probably a small factor, but the Dodgers have a ton of history. What's wrong with embracing it as a way of connecting present to the past?

5
Sorry, you were responding to 1 and not to Jon's comment as I read it. My bad. I agree that they not only can but should celebrate the 25th Anniversary and their history in general.

Jonathan Broxton made sense for the ninth if you accept the Dodgers not knowing he was tipping his slider
At least he realized there was something wrong. I don't know how long it will take to fix that, though.

I know he throws a splitter, and I guess he could try that on the Padres to mix things up a bit before his slider is back.

3- I don't think connecting celebrations to ticket sales is being cynical, as the Dodgers promoted it to the nth degree hoping to draw as many people as they could. (As an aside, and with all due respect, I don't necessarily think that cynicism and being underhanded are correlated.) It was a great idea and I am not speaking so much of that as I am, in this case, of Jon's mention of "She is gone." All I am saying is that I don't want the Dodger's history to be cheapened just for the sake of rousing fans to cheer for an event that, in the scheme of things doesn't loom all that large for the present, past or future. When an event like that comes along (and I sincerely hope it does, and soon) we will all know that we are in the midst of it and then, I believe, will it be appropriate to bring out our illustrious history for all to see.

"She is gone" had been a frequent Vin phrase for many years. At the risk of dating myself, its retirement hadn't even occurred to me. Certainly the '88 call was a classic, but it's unfortunate if the phrase has become idolized.

The Cardinals held a ceremony yesterday to retire Bruce Sutter's number.

However, his number was already retired since he wore 42 with the Cardinals. And Sutter played just four seasons with the Cardinals. But I'm sure it wasn't cynical.

The only thing I would say about yesterday was the plan on who could possibly pitch more than one inning.

Since the pitcher's spot was due up in the bottom of the 9th, the decision has to based on which pitcher you were planning to throw out there in 10th.

If you think that you are only going to use Saito for one inning, why not use him in the 9th, once you get to the bottom of the 9th with the score tied, it forces Bochy to perhaps save Hoffman for that "save" situation which may never show up and since he already used his best setup guys, he would have to use some other guys that we can maybe scratch out a run.

Other than that, I had no problems with Broxton pitching.

11 - I thought about that.

I like the idea of Saito in the 9th and not have to face Hoffman at all. But Broxton is one of our bullpen horses- so im not really going to question that move, which in my opinion, is rearranging deck chairs on Grittle's managerial Titanic.

Bochy rarely uses Hoffman on the road in a tie game. The Padres would have sent out Seanez and Cassidy and Adkins in some order before Hoffman.

I think Lugo would have batted in the bottom of the 9th since he is 4 for 4 against Hoffman in his career.

As for 14 take out "rarely" and replace it with "never".

Hoffman has not once appeared on the road in a tied game for San Diego this season.

Trevor Hoffman's last appearance in a tied game on the road.

August 11, 2002 in Cincinnati
http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B08110CIN2002.htm

4. I think there have been numerous comments with numerous descriptions of how many innings Saito has been used and in which situations. You should be pitching your best relief pitcher in the highest leverage situation (within reason). Grady Little has done a poor job of doing that this month. It's his job to do so, not ours. I still think Little is a huge improvement on last years manager. If this were a pass/no pass class, I'd give him a pass. A letter grade? Probably a C+/B-. Graded on a curve? Probably an A-.
vr, Xei
vr, Xei

17 Okay, so in the last month, when did Grady NOT use Saito when he should have (other than the one game in Chicago)? Can you check the game log and point to more than 1 or 2 games?

Ooooh Greg you are just itching to argue this out. Good luck.

Meanwhile, all losses count the same and yet I guess they don't as the end gets nigh, since the significance of losing to the Padres tonight is much clearer than it was during a game in May, and opporunities to win back a loss are much fewer. So is it fair to call tonight the biggest game of the year? I think so, even knowing that, depending on how things break, bigger games still may be yet to come.

But I could argue the either way too.

For all of us who had to watch the Mariners/Royals game for a while, here is the LA Times version of what went wrong.

http://tinyurl.com/j4g5r

19
I'm really really not. I'm just trying to avoid it becoming accepted dogma that Grady consistently mis-uses Saito. I really don't think there's backup for that. Jon has said he thinks he should be used in tie games on the road. But what else? What was the mis-use that had at least some (many?) upset with Grady's moves?

18. As I already pointed out in the last thread of the last four games that the Dodgers lost by 2 or fewer runs Saito pitched 0 innings. But he did manage to pitch in a couple of the blowout wins. I will leave the further researching (as to avoid rules #4 and #8) of the game logs to you. :) I am just pointing out facts. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions
vr, Xei

The only thing that gives me hope is that the Padres have been basically a .500 team for the last 2 1/2 months aside from playing the Dodgers so regardless of what happens today, I would expect them to run off and hide.

But, I do think for the Dodgers, a big statement could be made by winning today and not giving the Padres any momentum for their final two weeks.

I will be there, 6 game winning streak in hand and going to my second Padre game, I went last Friday. I have to decide if I need to double up by going to Subway first, my Subway sandwich before a game winning streak is 4 games. That sounds so stupid but when something works, well we shall see.

9 - You are so right. That call is not exclusive to Gibby's Homer, he has used that since I started listening to the Master since the 60's. I see nothing wrong in celebrating the past, expecially WS championship anniversaries like 20th or 25th, ect. I did wish Vin would have acknowledged the three players that couldn't be there because of their employment with other MLB clubs, i.e. Lopes, Baker and Hooton. Even a quick blurb about each and that they couldn't be there because they are currently working for Cubs, ect... All three played huge parts at some point in that 81 season.

BTW, a note to depress us further or give us some hope after tonight depending if your a 1/2 glass full or empty type of person. Take away the Cards and Padres and we are 74-51 against the rest of baseball and take away our interleague play 5-10, we are 69-41 against the other 13 NL teams.

My 2 year old daughter is now famous. :) She is the one banging on the drum like instrument. vr, Xei
http://web.venturacountystar.com/special/2006/09/artsfestival.html

23 I would not expect them to run off and hide.

23 - Please do whatever is necessary to get some good karma. We are facing the "Dodger destroyer" tonight. In addition, you don't know if we get Good Penny or Bad Penny and even if we get good Penny, if we can't score more than a couple runs, it may not matter. Also, lookout, The Pirates just swept the Mets in Shea over the weekend, so they are riding a little high wave at this point and they have nothing to lose.

12 Its a tough call but I think in tie games going to top of the ninth, the home team should use its closer because you guarantee that the visiting team will have to pitch two innings once you close out the top of the inning. Now maybe Grady liked the prospect of Saito pitching to all the LHs rather than Broxton but and you can't really criticize Grady for putting Broxton in, he has been as reliable as any setup guy in the league and if they lose it after the 9th well so be it. I just think he was trying to save Saito and maybe use him for two innings but we will never know now.

27 I did see Penny pitch a good game in his last start at Dodger Stadium, hopefully he can keep his pitchcount down, at least it will be a cool night, temp wise.

22. I will try to avoid those rule violations myself by going to lunch now. =) I did take a look at the game log and going by memory, I just don't see where things could have logically been done differently (on the bringing him in side of the ledger). I think that the fact that we lost by 2 runs or less does not necessarily mean Saito should have pitched. Ok, lunch!

And finally, for the first time this year, I do not have any mixed feelings with a Peavy start, my fantasy got eliminated from the playoffs yesterday so he can now go out and get shelled.

21 I hope it's clear that my comment was in good spirits and a little tongue in cheek.

30 I too will stop bringing up reliever strategy from this point on.

19 Sam, what's the talk in DC about resigning Soriano?

30. haha. My last point is that you pitch your best pitchers in the higest leverage situations. With Saito in the past 2-3 weeks that has not been the case. That is the managers job to figure out how to use him and when the results are tallied up, for us to analyze them. The tallies are in... and they don't look too good. vr, Xei

I thought this was funny from Deadspin:
Forget About It Jake, It's Mission Hills. Chinatown, LA Confidential, Hollywoodland, The Black Dahlia ... when the heck are they going to make a film based in San Diego? Plently of interesting things happen in San Diego; they don't call it "Enron by the Sea" for nothing. Well, until then, residents will have to be content with the grand spectacle that is the Padres, who are now in first place in the NL West after their 2-1 win over the Dodgers on Sunday. San Diego is 13-4 against LA this season after Terrmel Sledge singled home the winning run in the ninth, with Trevor Hoffman earning his 475th career save. The Dodgers are now in second place, a half-game back, as Grady Little whispers the words "Rollo Tomasi" and slumps to the dugout floor.

Nice prospect breakdown of Milton Bradley over at
http://www.minorleagueball.com/

29 - For me, tonight, I might watch MNF and just check in on the game tonight. I don't know if my heat can take it if they lose another to the Padres tonight. Also my opponent in fantasy football has Hines Ward and Heath Miller and the Pittsburgh defense in our head to head match. I lead by 37 points so barring some incredible games on their behalf's I should hold on and win.

I concur with Jon. My friends are all sick of hearing me complain about Lugo in the three hole.

38 - I meant my "heart" not "heat". See, I'm already unnerved and it's still 5 1/2 hours before game time!

Coupla thoughts -

1. I blame myself for the loss yesterday. I went to the game, for what will almost certainly be the last time this year. Once again, I end the season below .500 in games attended in a year in which the Dodgers are well over .500 at home. Jacob L - jinxing Dodger home games since 2002. I'm confident that bhsportsguy, and apparently, Subway, will turn it around for us tonight.

2. I've discussed here before something I call the "Chad Kreuter Phenomenon." It involves me launching into a spirited critique of a given Dodger player's ability, humanity, and relative good looks, followed immediately by said player doing something big to help the team win. The catch is I have to mean it; I cannot intentionally badmouth a player in order to bring about the big hit. Anyway, the Kreuter Phenomenon was invoked on Friday for Julio Lugo, when he got his big RBI. Unfortunately, that just resulted in my railing on Mr. Lugo yesterday (along the same lines as Jon's post) to be a tad bit too self-conscious, and obviously, to no avail.

I was at the game yesterday and seeing Lugo bat 3rd just ruffled me in so many ways. If the kid is hitting like he did in TB where he hit more then a "little" then I could understand but after so many at bats to be batting the worse hitter in the lineup in the important 3 hole is really unforgivable. I've been happy with Little, but his Sept performance is lacking. The one thing he seemed to do all year is give a player enough rope, when the player hung himself he moved on. He has yet to move on with Lugo. The guy may be a veteran but this is the first time he's playing games in Sept that mean something and he has been unable to meet the challenge.

Russ Martin is a rock.

I always wonder how people can blame the pitchers when the offense scores 1 run. If the pitching staff + defense allows 2 runs, they are putting the team in a position to win and thats all you can really ask of them. I have a hard time blaming a guy thats allowed 1 run in a month. I dont see anyone blaming LSU's defense for they're 6-3 loss last saturday, football understands this why doesnt baseball. Is it because W-L records go to the pitchers?

I guess I better go get a subway sandwich then.

I'll be at the game tonite. LA's 6-2 in my last 6 games at Dodger Stadium, which includes the Lima playoff game and a couple big victories against the G'ints, including the Finley walk-off GS in 2004. Hopefully that portends good things. On the other hand, both loss have come to San Diego ... both this season. Ugh.

43 I don't blame the pitchers at all, while the losses in Chicago were due to some unfortunate pitches, yesterday was a game where no one could score (frankly aside from Chad's hiccup, 5 out of the six starters have pitched well).

This is why I tend to give the advantage for the rest of the season to the Dodgers because their offense has been more consistent.

But hopefully, as Raffy apparently said on the radio today, the team will just try to stay within itself and have good at bats against Jake and Penny can pitch well in his biggest game thus far as a Dodger.

O.K. then. It looks like all our good omens are going tonight. I'm not going anywhere near the park except for the fact that I live kinda near the park, but you know what I mean.

I'm sure this has been discussed, but its interesting to me to compare Steve Finley ca. 04, who was said at the time to be the best deadline rental in recent history to Julio Lugo, who may be the worst. That's lots of ways to argue that, but I'd be curious what the DT Greek Chorus has to say.

46. I don't think I agree with the assessment that the offense is consistent at all, or that its more consistent than SD. Then again, I think consitency is overrated. The division will go to the team that wins the most games between today and the end of the season; how and why the winner will achieve those victories has yet to be seen. Thats what make baseball so fascinating.

On a different issue, aside from SoCal bragging rights, how much does winning the division even matter? Im not even sure I care whether the Dodgers win the division or wild card, as long as they can make the playoffs so McCourt doesnt purge the FO again. The end result will be something like 2004, just replace the Cards with the Mets. I'd consider 2005 a success as long as they make the playoffs.

My home game log for 2006:

Opening Day - Loss
Chicago - Maddux begins his unbeaten streak at Dodger Stadium.
Anaheim - 5 run first, capped by Ethier homer, first win.
Philadelphia - Baez blowup - now 1-3
Philadelphia - Blowout win Kemp hits homers in back to back games
Pittsburgh - Complete sweep, back to .500
Cardinals - Close loss, but a loss nonetheless, 3-4
Nationals - First game in new field box seats and first Subway game, Chad wins going away, 4-4
Nationals - Cesar gets a hit in his final at bat as a Dodger as they win it in the late innings.
Rockies - Dodgers win their 11th in a row as Maddux makes his debut as a Dodger
Reds - Penny pitches well, game gets close in the end but another win.
Reds - Maddux shows his bat, glove and arm and the Dodgers hit 3 homers in the 8th as they sweep the Reds/
Padres - Maddux 1 hits the Padres and Lugo and Anderson make contributions to the victory.

Since this is the start of a game every other day, I hope the streak continues but this has been fun, Josh reports another sell-out so for everyone going tonight be there early to get you fleece blanket.

On the bright side if we win tonight, it will be a split and we will be in the same place we started the four game series vs San Diego, only our magic number will have been reduced by four. vr, Xei

Lugo is doing his best to one-up Jeromy Burnitz for worst Dodger mid-season acquisition. That is from a hitting side.

From a pitching side, the all-time honor might go to Mark Hendrickson (worst starting pitcher acquired during mid-season). In Hendrickson's defense, the Dodgers havent acquired many pitchers mid-season.

James Baldwin, Dave Mlicki, John Tudor, Brad Penny, and a few others I've forgotten are the competition.

48 - LA is only 1 game up in the Wild Card. It's hardly a lock that LA makes the playoffs at all.

51 As to that, Maddux might turn out among the best mid-season acquistions ever.

Another nice post from Josh.

53-- Very true.

51 Rick Honeycutt comes to mind, and he did pretty well, as I recall.

Grady does seem to have lost a bit of his "flexible thinking" if it can be called that, as the season has progressed and bullpen roles have become more defined. One of the things I liked about him earlier in the season was that he seemed to go against the book more often--i.e., letting hot relievers pitch more than one inning, not being rigid with the definition of closer, etc. Since the emerge of Saito, he seems to have adapted a more inflexible line of thinking. I had no problem with him using Broxton in the ninth, but the more interesting question is, who would we have seen had the game remained tied into the 10th? Saito? Tomko? To my thinking, in important late season games, you should use your bullpen in descending order, from best to worst. Saito, Broxton, Tomko, Beimel, then your pick of Carrara, Hendrickson, whoever. I would never use someone like Hamulack at all, unless we have reached very extra innings--he's been horrible all year.

56 Responding to myself (as usual) - by "did pretty well" I meant "stunk the joint up." When it only takes 30 seconds to look something up, I should do so before posting.

This might not be accurate, but the last couple games Ive been to have been either a blowout loss or a good win. I was at the Hendrickson-Marlins implosion, the Maddux game involving the suicide squeeze, and this past Saturday's game. Hopefully this one will bring us back to equilibrium. I should also note that I was at the last Peavy/Penny confrontation and that was a humiliating loss. Maybe I shouldnt go tonight..? =)

i'm planning on going to the game tonight but it's been a while since i've gone to a dodger game without tickets already in hand..do you all think if i show up early enough there'll still be seats through the ticket office or is it time to get my bargaining face on for the scalpers?

60 Penny should brushback Peavy in his first at bat tonight.

60 Josh announced that the game is sold out, I would try to get their early and get tickets from the guys out in front but be prepared to pay, so get your game face on.

My last ditch effort to get tickets for tonight was foiled when ticketmaster decided to only have tickets worth 400 dollars for sale.

60 I believe the game is sold out.

60 Yeah, scalpers are well versed in supply in demand, so prepare to pay 3-4 times more than face value.

Occassionally you can find one that's bad at math, but that's more luck than anything.

65 This series will end up being second only to two 4-game sets against the Giants in 1962 and 1963 in terms of attendance, however back then they measured folks in the chairs not tickets sold but there was one series that had over 218,000 and another over 214,000. With a little over 163,000 so far and a sell out tonight, they will move somewhere in between or maybe even slightly above those figures.

BTW- Tonight is Chinese American Community night so perhaps I should pick up some dumplings or at least get something from Panda Express.

So, did everyone take the poll at Dodgers.com: "What was Ned Colletti's best trade?"

I also note that Nate appears to have voted 7 times in the "Who is the Dodgers' best prospect" poll at True Blue LA. Or at least that's how many votes Clay Kershaw has received.

60 Instead of having to deal with scalpers at the game, I recommend going on ebay and getting some tickets. You should be able to get some pretty cheap since it's so close to gametime and usually they can just e-mail you the tickets.

Don't scalpers also tend to bottom out their prices once the game has actually started too? Might be worth considering, especially given that horrible LA traffic you guys are famous for ;)

67 - yep. Ethier seemed like the easy choice.

I've got seats in the front row behind the dugout tonight. Only bad news is, they're behind the Padres dugout. I wish I were the type to yell horrible demoralizing things at players but alas, I have a moral problem with that. =(

37- I'm glad that John honored my request. Nice read.
51- James Baldwin wasn't too bad. I'm sure he was better than Hendrickson. Evans didn't give up much to get him.

66 I thought we had agreed you were getting Subway tonight. I would never, under normal circumstances, advocate Subway over some good dumplings, but we need a win big time.

71 Get over it, Greg. These are not nice people, these Padres of whom you speak.

73 Yes, I will get Subway, any suggestions.

No. I don't like Subway.

Apparently Andre needs another day off or at least see another team besides the Padres.

Furcal, SS
Lofton, CF
Garciaparra, 1B
Kent, 2B
Drew, RF
Martin, C
Anderson, LF
Betemit, 3B
Penny, P

When was the last time Martin batted this high up in the line up? I do like Anderson because he has had some good swings since he has been here.

I'm happy with that line-up (no Lugo, plus Ethier does need more rest - I agree with Jon, his swings look late, which is a sign of fatigue). A good line-up on paper - now let's see if they can hit in reality and get their butts back in first place! I'll be watching it nervously on my computer tonight.

What's the big deal? It's only the most important game of the season, against an absolute Dodger-killer, while starting a pitcher who's games range from brilliant to infuriating.

What could possibly go wrong?

What could possibli go wrong?

Funny, I've never made that mistake before....

79 Don't sweat it...

Evrybody makes missstakes.

77 - But I wasn't advocating for Ethier to rest, you understand.

Hey Bob, I understand there was some shenanigans going on over at the library today.

79
I guess my "Simpsons" reference was too subtle there.

82

I was not allowed to go view the shenanigans.

It's come to this:

Cubs lead the Phillies 3-0 on an Aramis Ramirez homer in the first inning. Still no one out!

85 - In a wild-card race that was so probable, the possible has happened!

See - now I've exploited history for nefarious purposes.

Shenanigans was the name of a bar across the street from the first paper I worked at, The Glendale News-Press. It was so dark it would take your eyes 20 minutes to adjust. They made incredibly strong drinks. One publisher we had would go over there and order 2 beers