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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

As an Actress, She's a Diamond in the Rough
2006-11-07 10:23
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Bob Timmermann sent word that Chavez Ravine is now appearing on Broadway, in the aptly named The Bluest Eye.

Comments (204)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-11-07 11:15:44
1.   Greg Brock
Yup, that takes it...Greatest Name Ever.

Sorry, Lemonjello, you've been dethroned.

2006-11-07 12:04:58
2.   Bluebleeder87
you guys think she knows of the original Chavez Ravine?
2006-11-07 12:07:24
3.   Disabled List
I thought this post was about the actual play "Chavez Ravine". I'd be very impressed if that show made it to Broadway.

http://www.chicagogigs.com/theater/chavez-ravine-tickets.htm

2006-11-07 12:27:47
4.   Sam DC
I just got a GOTV call informing me that my polling place is Lakeridge Elementary School in Southwest Seattle and asking if I wanted a ride to the polls.

Now that's service.

2006-11-07 12:36:44
5.   Jon Weisman
4 - Will you be voting coach or first class?
2006-11-07 12:50:31
6.   Bluebleeder87
i ain't voting period
2006-11-07 12:56:19
7.   Andrew Shimmin
6- Better not let Jeffery Steitz find that out.

Jeffery Steitz

2006-11-07 12:57:34
8.   Andrew Shimmin
Oops. That second line should have been this link: http://tinyurl.com/ynypp5

Copy and paste is a very complicated procedure.

2006-11-07 13:12:25
9.   D4P
BREAKING NEWS: Britney Spears files for divorce from her husband Kevin Federline, citing irreconcilable differences.

And in other news, rain is wet.

2006-11-07 13:40:45
10.   Bluebleeder87
9 if anything he's set for life, i hate 'em already
2006-11-07 13:44:25
11.   caseybarker
I ain't trustin' my vote ta no 'puter!
2006-11-07 13:47:46
12.   D4P
No doubt the timing of Britney's divorce announcment is political. A clear ploy to remind voters that the traditional family unit is under attack...
2006-11-07 13:51:18
13.   Jon Weisman
Rain is wet at the L.A. Times, too, if you're Dean Baquet.
2006-11-07 13:57:57
14.   Marty
There's a massacre coming soon.
2006-11-07 14:05:33
15.   bhsportsguy
A couple of observations, the Cardinals have the highest or lowest draft pick depending on your point of view of any World Series winner, which makes sense since they had the worst record of any World Series winner. They have the 18th pick, which is only 3 away from being protected. To put it another way, their were 5 other non-playoff teams that have picks higher than the Cardinals.

Observation number 2, expect a big signing on either Sunday or Monday after the FA period opens up, I think this is kind of like an old fashioned Roto Auction where no one quite knows what the salary structure will be so I think you want to be first instead of having to match or go higher once players start being signed. Expect all of Boros' clients to be among the last signed.

2006-11-07 14:12:22
16.   Bluebleeder87
i hope none of Boros clients get signed Boros i like it.
2006-11-07 14:23:15
17.   Bluebleeder87
anybody gonna ask Vinnie a question today? he's gonna be on an online chat.
2006-11-07 14:50:05
18.   Bob Timmermann
You don't ask Vin Scully a question in an online chat. You send it inscribed on tablets. Preferably ones that were inscribed on Mt. Sinai.
2006-11-07 14:53:39
19.   Eric Enders
DEAR MR. SCU
2006-11-07 14:54:05
20.   Eric Enders
Sorry, that engraving takes a lot longer than it looks.
2006-11-07 14:55:06
21.   dianagramr
So are Britney and Madonna gonna get married now?

And do you think red tail lights through the backside of Chavez Ravine?

2006-11-07 14:57:55
22.   BlueCrew Bruin
Vin's chat is next Tuesday, no?
2006-11-07 15:04:59
23.   dzzrtRatt
For some reason, this post reminds me of the strangeness of the writers of the movie "Napoleon Dynamite" allegedly not knowing that Napoleon Dynamite was a pseudonym used by Elvis Costello on one of his albums.

I took a creative writing class once where a guy wrote a sci-fi story in which the villain was named "Saul Bellow." He read the story to the class. Most of us were completely distracted by the repeated use of this name -- always "Saul Bellow," never "Saul" never "Bellow." There had to be some connection he was trying to draw between this futuristic world and today's literary scene, or Bellow's writing, or something. But when the instructor asked him, "What were you trying to say by naming your villain after the great novelist Saul Bellow?" the writer said, "Who? I thought I made the name up."

I hope Chavez Ravine is a baseball fan.

2006-11-07 15:06:07
24.   Jon Weisman
17 - I think that's next Tuesday.
2006-11-07 15:27:12
25.   Bluebleeder87
24

oh o.k.

2006-11-07 15:30:09
26.   DodgerBakers
In regard to the free agent signings coming up. Who do you hope Ned Colletti stays far away from that you think he may go after?

My vote is for Pat Burrell as a power hitter.

2006-11-07 15:35:32
27.   trainwreck
Soriano and Carlos Lee.
2006-11-07 15:49:19
28.   Bluebleeder87
26

Yeah Burrell scares me as well, i don't mind Soriano because he brings alot more to the dance than Lee.

2006-11-07 16:11:35
29.   Bluebleeder87
somebody told me that Merchandise & even if Dodger Stadium sells out won't pay for Matsuzaka's contract.
2006-11-07 16:19:54
30.   StolenMonkey86
I'm not scared by Burrell, I'm scared of Colletti trading someone like Billingsley to a team that would take Lance Carter to dump salary.
2006-11-07 16:23:13
31.   Bluebleeder87
30

i doubt Colletti would do something as dumb as that, but then again he traded Navarro for Baez if i remember correctly

2006-11-07 16:27:52
32.   Andrew Shimmin
Tiffany and Jackson for Baez and Carter. Dioner went East with Seo for Hendrickson and Tubby Hall.
2006-11-07 16:38:29
33.   Bluebleeder87
32 Tubby Hall was pretty good.
2006-11-07 16:47:41
34.   Bluebleeder87
have you guys read the new inside the Dodgers blog & there new promotions?
2006-11-07 16:50:58
35.   blue22
33 - As far as overpriced, slap-hitting, whiney, malcontents go, yeah, he was pretty good.

26 - I want to stay as far away from Gary Matthews Jr and Alfonso Soriano as possible.

2006-11-07 16:53:10
36.   Robert Daeley
I know everybody's worried sick about how Britney's holding up, but there was apparently actual Dodger news today. ;) Ramon Martinez gets to stay with a 1-year deal with '08 option according to Blue Notes.

http://tinyurl.com/yapar7

2006-11-07 17:01:51
37.   Bluebleeder87
I kind of really like Kin Ng i hope she's still with the team.
2006-11-07 17:08:59
38.   BLUEFAN
Scout.com has posted a story indicating the promotion of several Dodger Front Office staff, including Logan White.

White is now Assistant General Manger, Scouting. His job, Director, Amateur Scouting was placed in the hands of Tim Hallgren.

How will this effect our future drafts? Is White still in charge or does Hallgren now run the show?

2006-11-07 17:14:23
39.   Bluebleeder87
38

is this kind of a slap to Roy Smith?

2006-11-07 17:22:04
40.   trainwreck
Roy Smith left.

38
That is very good news. We need to do all we can to keep him around.

2006-11-07 17:24:40
41.   trainwreck
I would be shocked if White still was not in charge of our draft.
2006-11-07 17:26:03
42.   Bluebleeder87
40

exactly the reason

2006-11-07 17:51:59
43.   Dark Horse
23-Speaking as a guy who thinks Herzog & Henderson The Rain King are two of the best novels of the last 50 years, that's astounding. What a great story.
2006-11-07 18:09:08
44.   natepurcell
soooo what is the deal with the promotions? does this mean white now has more say in overall scouting... amateur AND professional?

I dont know if i like this. I mean, if this was the only way to keep white in the org then by all means, do what you gotta do. But if he isnt going to be making the picks in the draft anymore then i dont know about this. Logan White has earned my unconditional trust when it comes to recognizing amateur talent. who the heck is this "tim hallgren"

he sounds like a giant spy.

2006-11-07 18:13:15
45.   natepurcell
upon further research, Hallgren has been in the dodger org as one of White's National Crosscheckers the past couple of years. it looks like we just promoted from within.
2006-11-07 18:17:41
46.   natepurcell
Hallgren was the SD for the rangers for the 2001 draft.

here are his picks:
http://tinyurl.com/ydgc6w

2006-11-07 18:26:23
47.   Andrew Shimmin
46- So, he went one for forty-eight? Maybe he's gotten better.
2006-11-07 18:28:45
48.   natepurcell
47
to be fair, he only had one pick in the first 3 rounds and he made good use of it picking a perrennial all star.

but yes, i think white should continue to do the picking.

2006-11-07 18:37:58
49.   Bluebleeder87
48 but yes, i think white should continue to do the picking.

agreed.

2006-11-07 18:41:01
50.   trainwreck
Jason Windsor pitches for the A's now and is at least decent, especially for the 43rd round haha.

I still think White will have a lot of say. He has relied on his scouts often and I could still see him personally checking some of the teams top targets.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-11-07 18:45:43
51.   natepurcell
all is well!

http://tinyurl.com/yh459c

White, originally hired by Dan Evans five years ago, will continue to be in charge of the draft, for which he has received much industry acclaim. His expanded title reflects his additional role as an advisor to Colletti on other personnel matters.

2006-11-07 18:47:10
52.   thinkingblue
51.

what?

2006-11-07 18:47:43
53.   trainwreck
I knew we could not possibly be that stupid.
2006-11-07 18:47:50
54.   Bluebleeder87
i heard Logan White can part the ocean & wrote the ten commanments on the dues & dont's of being a great scout.
2006-11-07 19:05:22
55.   natepurcell
Logan White can touch a baby infant and foresee if he will throw a 95mph fastball in the future.

it was on foxnews, it has to be true.

2006-11-07 19:25:17
56.   Bluebleeder87
Logan White touched Kuo & instantly made him a great starting pitcher!!
2006-11-07 19:43:10
57.   Bluebleeder87
Logan White can breath under water for 20 minutes! it's true i saw it in the discovery channel.
2006-11-07 20:03:26
58.   Terry A
I heard he broke up Britney Spears' marriage.
2006-11-07 20:09:47
59.   Andrew Shimmin
I've decided that, since Virginia is taking too long to count their votes, that Senate seat should be awarded to the winner of a duel. Pistols, in ten minutes.
2006-11-07 20:15:03
60.   trainwreck
I say they find out by who can first get a hit off Joel Zumaya.
2006-11-07 20:16:40
61.   Benaiah
I know that this is a controversial claim, and I am the last one to attack our former GM, but I think this is further proof of Ned's superior communication skills. The Dodgers went from 20 games under .500 to the playoffs in a single year and Flanders handed out promotions to (nearly) everyone to say "good job".

Depo's first year was also marked by some success, but afterwards he blew the team up. Now I think that was the right move and probably we wouldn't have made the playoffs this year without his changes, but he could have sold those changes a lot better.

2006-11-07 20:26:31
62.   Bluebleeder87
makes me love how Gillick ducked & covered when asked if he wanted to be the Los Angeles Dodgers G.M. it shows the B__s in Ned.
2006-11-07 20:30:10
63.   Terry A
59 - Will it help if I tell you that we are now projecting that Paul Green will be the next mayor of Earle, Ark.?
2006-11-07 20:30:15
64.   Jon Weisman
61 - This is just the same old song - criticizing DePo for not selling his changes without acknowledging the predisposition so many people had against him.

Colletti may be a better communicator than DePodesta, but he sure had a more receptive audience.

DePo could have promoted everyone in the organization to vice president, and the media and most fans would have still been all over him for not resigning Jose Lima. As if that needed to be sold.

2006-11-07 20:35:24
65.   twerp
51 "...additional role as an advisor to Colletti on other personnel matters."

This is just one example, but here Ned shows excellent management skills by promoting White, who has as great or greater expertise in some areas than he does, and expanding his role.

Ned does not appear to be threatened by the competence of others, which is refreshing and reassuring.

He seems open to good ideas no matter their source, like taking a flyer on Ethier based on an older scout's input.

IMO the Dodgers appear to be in good hands with Colletti.

2006-11-07 20:37:38
66.   Bluebleeder87
64

you're loyal to who you believe in Jon I'll give you that, but i ask you this is it blind loyalty??

2006-11-07 20:38:33
67.   Terry A
Good heavens.
2006-11-07 20:39:17
68.   trainwreck
He traded promising prospects that had good trade value to the D-Rays in three terrible deals. He made good moves with the Furcal and Nomar signings and the aforementioned Ethier trade. I would say he has been very neutral so far, so I will hold my judgement till after this off-season.
2006-11-07 20:50:13
69.   Benaiah
64 - I have serious reservations about Colletti and I would ultimately rather have a GM who is good rather than one who is perceived as good. However, I do think that Colletti does well in this one area. If I we can talk ad nauseam about Ned's flaws (hint: Tampa Bay), then I think it is only fair to point out that he really does do a good job with the media.

That said, I think that the jackals (Plaschke and Simers) had it out for Depo from the start. He still could have made a greater effort to explain the two or three moves that ultimately defined him (Beltre, trading Lo Duca).

Jon, I am a died in the wool stat head. I wrote a 15 page statistics paper about baseball and let me tell you I was heartbroken when Depo was fired. This isn't the same old song from me, this is just my opinion on our current GM.

2006-11-07 20:51:45
70.   trainwreck
I do not understand why a GM has to explain himself. The only GM I hear explain himself a lot is Bowden and that is because he likes to hear himself talk.
2006-11-07 20:53:34
71.   trainwreck
As for the Lo Duca trade I remember him saying we needed an ace pitcher for the playoffs and that is why he got Penny and in order to get an ace talent they had to give up someone of talent.
2006-11-07 20:54:20
72.   trainwreck
No GM would say hey I traded Paul Lo Duca because I think is overrated or I did not sign Adrian Beltre because we thought maybe he took steroids.
2006-11-07 20:54:41
73.   trainwreck
*he is overrated
2006-11-07 20:58:52
74.   Bluebleeder87
He traded promising prospects that had good trade value to the D-Rays

i can say the same thing about DePo, but serously my loyalty is to Dodger baseball if you don't believe me read my old posts on Dodgers.com i backed Depo big time even when he traded my boy Loduca.

2006-11-07 21:00:39
75.   regfairfield
All that Ethier article taught me is that either I can be a scout (Hey, I knew who Ethier was too!) or that Ned is completely lost since he needed someone to inform him who the Texas League MVP was.
2006-11-07 21:00:47
76.   trainwreck
Which promising prospects did DePo trade?

Franklin Gutierrez?

2006-11-07 21:02:20
77.   trainwreck
75
lol I said on DT during the season if we traded Bradley to A's we should ask for Ethier. I guess we both should be scouts.
2006-11-07 21:05:04
78.   D4P
Regarding the Duel in Virginia, Webb just took a small lead. I'm assuming the votes will be recounted.

Regarding historical recounts: does anyone know who closely the recount votes typically match the initial votes?

2006-11-07 21:07:46
79.   Bob Timmermann
78
It all depends upon who does the recounting.
2006-11-07 21:09:17
80.   D4P
79
Good point...
2006-11-07 21:18:22
81.   Bluebleeder87
stay the cource or bust i guess bust! (so far)
2006-11-07 21:20:38
82.   twerp
Whatever the pros and cons, DePo is Dodger history. Colletti is Dodger present.

In 65 I'm talking about Colletti using good management principles, not his first-year results. And good communication skills are a common trait in the best management in any field--vital, actually.

Judgment on Colletti will be an ongoing thing for fans and ownership. He'll make some moves that don't work. All GMs do. He'll have to make enough that do work to keep the GM job. That's the reality.

Yes, the D-Ray trades can be faulted. I think he probably overtraded and overpaid somewhat in trying to make up time after a late start, yet still try to capitalize on a chance to win. Maybe he won't see the need for that going forward.

2006-11-07 21:22:13
83.   Andrew Shimmin
Where are you seeing Webb up? I'm still seeing Allen by .08% with 99.18% of precincts reporting.
2006-11-07 21:24:43
84.   D4P
83
MSNBC's telecast has Webb up by some 2000 votes.
2006-11-07 21:25:39
85.   Jon Weisman
66 - No, it's not. It's not even about loyalty. What incentive do I have to be blindly loyal to DePodesta? I'm not nominating him for sainthood. I'm just pointing out some obvious biases against him.

I get the feeling that a number of people think I'm blindly loyal to DePodesta - ignoring the times that I did offer critiques.

69 - It might not have been the same old song, but it was the same old lyric. You simply can't talk about DePo's so-called communication deficit without talking about his audience. I can't count how many times DePo calmly explained what he was doing, only to have it thrown back in his face.

Ned does a good job with the media, but it helps that Ned's very existence doesn't threaten so many in the media.

2006-11-07 21:27:24
86.   D4P
83
CNN also has Webb up by some 2,000 votes.
2006-11-07 21:28:58
87.   Jon Weisman
In the Salem witch hunts, was it all the alleged witches' fault that they weren't good communicators?
2006-11-07 21:30:53
88.   D4P
I see Big Coal is launching an ad campaign to convince us that it's a clean source of fuel that will be around long enough for us to not worry about having to switch to something else.
2006-11-07 21:31:31
89.   Andrew Shimmin
84- Thanks. I had to turn the t.v. off when Larry King dropped by to interview Dean. I've been watching the state's site, which just updated. 18 precincts left, Webb up by 1798 votes.
2006-11-07 21:37:16
90.   D4P
I had to turn the t.v. off when Larry King dropped by to interview Dean

I don't listen to any interviews, victory speaches, or concession speaches

2006-11-07 21:40:18
91.   LAT
Did anyone else catch TJ Simmers and Fred Rogin's interview of Jeff Kent this morning? It was really good. Fred sucked up to Kent and Simmers dogged him out. All the while Kent was talkitive, engaging and articulate. He explained why he acts the way he does during the season and why he believes the Dodgers could win a ring. I have listened to Simmers and Rogin the least few days and it has been suprisingly good. While Simmers LAT articles are so-so he is very candid on the radio and talks alot about local people.
2006-11-07 21:42:00
92.   Jon Weisman
I'm ignoring all the violations of rule 5 since you guys are keeping it so cool.

I present you the following vote tallies from earlier this evening:

98 percent reporting
Allen 1,141,052
Webb 1,138,676

99 percent reporting
Webb 1,143,144
Allen 1,140,879

Notice anything odd?

2006-11-07 21:43:54
93.   Bob Timmermann
92

There'll be time enough for counting when the dealing's done.

2006-11-07 21:47:51
94.   twerp
87. The witches apparently had a terrible PR agency. :)
2006-11-07 21:48:28
95.   D4P
92
I guess some Allen supporters changed their minds...
2006-11-07 21:53:40
96.   Ravenscar
I'm going to secretly root for the Diamondbacks for the rest of eternity if Proposition 107 continues to go down.

(Or at least until someday something like it eventually passes - but I'll stick with the happy thoughts for now.)

2006-11-07 21:54:57
97.   Ravenscar
92 -

Maybe that 1% was, um, that city with all the college kids in it?

2006-11-07 21:56:50
98.   Steve
92 -- The AP has 4,000 extra votes assigned to Webb in a county called "Isle of Wight." That said, I expect Webb to be ahead at the end of the night.
2006-11-07 21:57:41
99.   Andrew Shimmin
It sounds like there are two separate counts going down. The AP has one, and the Sec. of State's office has another. At least that's what Wolff Blitzer said. Although it could be a tricky MSM scheme to dupe people out of something. Or in to something.

And, since I now notice that the AP lists 2411 total precincts, whereas the Sec. of State lists 2443, something is definitely up. I wonder who counted the number of precincts wrong.

2006-11-07 22:01:23
100.   D4P
Another big change: McCaskill now ahead in Missourah, after being down by some 50,000 votes just 15 minutes or so ago
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-11-07 22:02:46
101.   Steve
Dems will sweep the last three.
2006-11-07 22:04:11
102.   Ravenscar
100: Wow. I still wonder if everything's close what the heck Lieberman will be doing.
2006-11-07 22:06:21
103.   D4P
Apparently, the cities of MO are just starting to come in. Frumpy as they may be, St. Louisans apparently voted roughly 70% McCaskill.
2006-11-07 22:06:47
104.   Rocc
32,33, 35- If you hate Toby Hall, take a gander at this link...

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/11/05/Rays/Hall__Rays_move_even_.shtml

For some reason, he believes that the Rays had traded all their better players(Lurch/Hendo, Lugo, himself and Huff) for nothing.

I'm sorry, but none of those players strike me as superstars or being better than Rocco/Crawford/Kazmir/Upton/Delmon.

82. You're preaching to the choir, as a Rays fan, some of the dumber Rays fans are already openly ignorantly saying "Show me or I'm leaving/gonna stop following the Rays" to the Rays new ownership & GM after 1 year. After dealing with the BS of Chuck LaMar & Naimoli for 8 years, Stu and Andy are godsends.

2006-11-07 22:07:37
105.   twerp
Apologies if this has been posted===

http://ap.cjonline.com/pstories/sports/20061106/117944451.shtml

2006-11-07 22:08:32
106.   Ravenscar
Missouri stem-cell in a dead heat with 73% of baseball players and actors reporting.
2006-11-07 22:08:46
107.   D4P
I don't understand how races can be "called" in favor of a candidate or ballot measure at a time when said candidate/measure has fewer votes than the alternative.
2006-11-07 22:11:37
108.   das411
Did I just see a campaign ad for Bobby Kennedy? Damn I need to get more sleep!
2006-11-07 22:12:12
109.   Ravenscar
107 - I don't understand it either, but I also admit I've never seen it happen.
2006-11-07 22:13:20
110.   Bob Timmermann
St. Louis has some of the most poorly run elections in the country. The results tend to come in late.
2006-11-07 22:14:52
111.   Greg Brock
Wow, rough night for the Grand Ole Party.

Good old fashioned political whoopin'

2006-11-07 22:20:08
112.   Bob Timmermann
But will Lynn Swann go back to being a sideline reporter for ABC?
2006-11-07 22:20:30
113.   D4P
We can rest easy knowing that English has been declared the official language in Arizona. No word yet on whether there are plans in the works to Englishize the word "Arizona"...
2006-11-07 22:21:48
114.   Bob Timmermann
Isle of Wight County, Virginia

http://www.co.isle-of-wight.va.us/

2006-11-07 22:25:42
115.   dzzrtRatt
111 Maybe a whippin' or a whompin'. The Reeps aren't doing much whoopin'.
2006-11-07 22:26:23
116.   Greg Brock
It's not just the fact that the GOP is getting creamed...That was expected. It's who is losing...Jim Talent, George Allen, J.D. Hayworth, Mike DeWine. This is a total kick in the gut for Ken Mehlmen, Karl Rove, et. al.
2006-11-07 22:28:26
117.   Greg Brock
I'm beginning to think the American people might not want soldiers in Iraq anymore.
2006-11-07 22:30:40
118.   D4P
The Webb-Allen numbers haven't changed for quite a while now. That election probably won't be decided for weeks, if not longer.
2006-11-07 22:32:40
119.   Greg Brock
118 When the affluent areas of Fairfax County come in, it's all she wrote for Macacca, er, George Allen.

From Presidential frontrunner to booted Senator. Wow, dad would not approve, George. PV High goes down.

2006-11-07 22:33:11
120.   Bob Timmermann
I'm beginning to think the people of Pennsylvania want Lynn Swann on the sidelines of Big 10 football games providing useless information.

"Brent, I talked with coach Lloyd Carr and he said he thinks that Michigan's offense will play better if it gains yardage."

2006-11-07 22:33:43
121.   D4P
Macacca

His claim to have made that word up was among the more ridiculous things I've ever heard

2006-11-07 22:37:07
122.   Greg Brock
121 Yeah, I never really understood what people saw in George Allen as a white house hopeful. He's not terribly impressive.

Especially since John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, and Lindsey Graham seem like the best bets. Assuming Graham is the Veep choice (which I think he will be).

2006-11-07 22:40:11
123.   D4P
He's not terribly impressive

Being "terribly impressive" stopped being a necessary criterion for presidential candidates a long time ago.

2006-11-07 22:44:08
124.   Greg Brock
Yeah, but I understood what the GOP saw in W, circa 2000. Legacy, Southerner, "Compassionate Conservative", popular among Southern Democrats, label of being bipartisan in Texas. "Uniter" and all that stuff. Allen, I never quite understood.

The GOP also has a legacy of picking one guy early and sticking with him. Which is why McCain scared them to death. After New Hampshire, the GOP machinery rallied around W, and crushed McCain.

2006-11-07 22:45:24
125.   Jon Weisman
I'll be going to bed soon. As far as the elections go, please make sure that you only discuss results - I don't want anything close to a political debate.

I would say the remark about Allen being not impressive, for example, is out of bounds. Not trying to single you out, GB - just don't want it to snowball.

Meanwhile, I have a Veronica Mars question at Screen Jam for anyone who watched tonight's episode.

2006-11-07 22:47:25
126.   D4P
From what I can tell, the secret ingredient for being president these days is "charisma."

Reagan v. Mondale, Clinton v. Bush, Clinton v. Dole, Bush v. Gore, and Bush v. Kerry

all went to the more charismatic candidate. Bush v. Dukakis set charisma back a few decades...

2006-11-07 22:47:50
127.   Greg Brock
125 No problem. I should add that George Allen does have impressive hair.

Besides, it doesn't look like the Whigs are going anywhere this year anyway. Oh well, we live to fight another day!

2006-11-07 22:49:22
128.   D4P
And thanks to Jon for loosening #5. There are a lot of bright people that post on this blog, and while I understand (and support) the rationale behind #5, it's still nice to hear what they have to say...
2006-11-07 22:52:55
129.   Uncle Miltie
Nancy Pelosi is going to be the Speaker of the House...ummm...interesting.

How is prop 86 doing? That's probably the only thing I really care about on the ballot.

2006-11-07 22:53:04
130.   Big Game
The senate wont be decided for a few days...The Virginia race is within 2,000 votes. I do believe theyre calling Missouri for McCaskill...Talent can thank Rush Limbaugh for that one.
2006-11-07 22:53:29
131.   Greg Brock
128 Agree. Thanks, Jon. I'm pretty sure we're all trying to keep in analytical, rather than partisan.

You have to figure that the minimum wage is going to get hiked up, the tax cuts will not be made permanent, and that immigration will die in committee. Those are the three things I can think of off the top of my head.

Oh, and there will be supboenas. Lots and lots of subpoenas.

2006-11-07 22:54:25
132.   twerp
Dummy here linked to a different story than intended last time. Try, try again, and probably give it up if it doesn't work this time==

http://www.ci.la.ca.us/atty/attypress/attyattypress6941470_11062006.pdf

(Tiny URL didn't seem to work on this. And again, apologies if this has been posted.)

If link doesn't work, 90 days in jail for a guy who threw a souvenir bat on the field at DS from the upper deck at a Sept. game. Don't look for him at games the next 3 years, either, if he has gotten any smarter...

2006-11-07 22:55:46
133.   Greg Brock
When I talk to my students about politics, I always explain to them that the most important aspect of holding the House is the subpoena power.

They tend not to get excited by that. Subpoena power does not light fires like abortion, gun control, or same sex marriage.

2006-11-07 22:56:23
134.   trainwreck
Prop 85 I care about.
2006-11-07 22:58:06
135.   D4P
129
Do you smoke, Miltie...?
2006-11-07 22:59:04
136.   Greg Brock
Looks like Prop 85 is going to fail.
2006-11-07 23:00:21
137.   Greg Brock
Prop 86 will not be passed, either.

Californians may be socially liberal, but they sure do carry that Howard Jarvis bit of soul inside them.

2006-11-07 23:01:23
138.   Uncle Miltie
135- nope, extremely anti-smoking ;) Besides consuming lots of alcohol on the weekends, I'm a very healthy person.
2006-11-07 23:02:28
139.   Greg Brock
I'm hearing the term "accountability" a lot tonight.

When I hear "accountability", I really hear "subpoenas"

2006-11-07 23:02:53
140.   Andrew Shimmin
Looking for the ballot initiative scorecard I came across this revolting development: http://tinyurl.com/yhq3an$

It couldn't really happen, could it? I mean, it's not even remotely possible, right? Right?

135- No; he's an anti-smoking fanatic.

2006-11-07 23:03:48
141.   Andrew Shimmin
Oops. Superfluous dollar sign at the end of that link. Should be: http://tinyurl.com/yhq3an
2006-11-07 23:03:54
142.   trainwreck
Well since we are just talking about results and not opinions I will just say thank you for saying the results of those two props.
2006-11-07 23:05:26
143.   D4P
When I hear "accountability", I really hear "subpoenas"

As you should. Democrats have clearly circulated a memo...

2006-11-07 23:07:12
144.   Greg Brock
What's really interesting to me is the fact that so many of the Democrats who will end up winning are not exactly the moveon.org types. Bob Case, Claire McCaskill, James Webb, for example.

I wonder what the "progressive" wing of the Democratic Party is thinking right now. Actually, I'm pretty sure they're just pouring the champagne right now.

2006-11-07 23:07:29
145.   Ravenscar
Stem cells appear to have take the lead in Missouri. Do they have someone with a vicious curve to close it out for Michael J.?
2006-11-07 23:07:42
146.   D4P
The Webb-Allen numbers have finally changed, with Webb now up by some 5,700 votes
2006-11-07 23:07:52
147.   trainwreck
When I hear accountability it is usually someone bashing the Raiders and their lack of it. I watch too much sports related tv.
2006-11-07 23:09:28
148.   D4P
MSNBC has declared McCaskill the winner
2006-11-07 23:09:54
149.   Andrew Shimmin
The L.A. Times Proposition tracker:

http://tinyurl.com/y4ht5o

2006-11-07 23:14:46
150.   Steve
The last interesting race is whether Schwarzenegger can pull McClintock over the top. That one looks like several days in the making. The Senate races are all over, whether they call them tonight or not.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-11-07 23:16:59
151.   D4P
I look at this election as a referendum on Walmart
2006-11-07 23:18:00
152.   Greg Brock
You know it's big when these established names are going down. This isn't even close to '94, but when you see names like Burns, DeWine, Talent, Allen, all going down, it's really a shocker.

Well, back to good old fashioned divided government. James Madison would be proud.

2006-11-07 23:19:12
153.   Greg Brock
151 This election is a referendum on referendums.

The people have spoken.

2006-11-07 23:19:43
154.   Steve
The reason I say that, by the way, is that if McClintock somehow ekes it out, it sets up a McClintock/Poizner 2010 "Battle for the Soul(TM) of the California Republican Party" Gubernatorial Primary that will make Lieberman/Lamont look like a student body election.
2006-11-07 23:20:26
155.   Bob Timmermann
I think James Madison is jealous because George Mason made it to the Final Four.
2006-11-07 23:21:01
156.   Big Game
Jack Murtha was being interviewed on MSNBC...he seemed to indicate that the subpoenas would be flowing like wine in regards to the lead up to the Iraq war.

Also, if the Dems manage to get control of the senate as well as the house the Supreme Court will no longer be a slam dunk (walk off home-run more appropriate here, maybe?) for the Republicans. Its gonna be an interesting two years to come.

2006-11-07 23:21:49
157.   Big Game
140. Sascha Baron-Cohen for best actor!
2006-11-07 23:22:51
158.   Bob Timmermann
I think McClintock will eventually fall under the weight of LA County's votes, which take a while to come in. The Registrar for LA County was on the radio and she said they hardly get anything counted before 11 pm. Nearly all of LA County is counted by 4 am.
2006-11-07 23:23:38
159.   Greg Brock
156 David Boies, Ben Ginsburg, Ted Olson and the like will all be working overtime.

It will be a great time for lawyers.

2006-11-07 23:23:52
160.   LAT
134.
"The case was prosecuted by Deputy City Attorney Mark Soriano of the City Attorney's Hollywood Branch"

Any relation to the Dodgers next LF?

2006-11-07 23:25:42
161.   Big Game
159. Ginsburg was already on MSNBC discussing the Virginia race and Chris Matthews asked "Are you taking a helicopter to Fairfax County tonight?"
2006-11-07 23:26:01
162.   Greg Brock
I just get the funny feeling that there are plenty of Democrats willing to engage in a coup d'etat against Nancy Pelosi. She'll hang on, but there may be a plethora of Machiavellian machinations inside the Beltway.

I'm pretty sure the flyover Democrats are not thrilled with her as the new Speaker.

2006-11-07 23:28:51
163.   D4P
I get the funny feeling that Republicans are losing on purpose so they can start shifting blame and responsibility to Democrats. Not bad strategery, from a certain point of view...
2006-11-07 23:29:46
164.   Steve
158 -- Orange and San Diego are only a quarter in and San Bernardino is also very late reporting. Those are the counties that McClintock will need to run very close to A.S. to hold off the impending L.A. County vote. I wouldn't necessarily put money on it, but I wouldn't necessarily rule it out.
2006-11-07 23:30:29
165.   Big Game
I think that the Dems, especially the new blood, will fall in line behind her. She organized and fund raised so much in this election that many of these new congresspeople owe their victories to her efforts. To turn on her is to turn the faucet of national Dem campaign funds off.
2006-11-07 23:30:37
166.   Greg Brock
Johnny Sain has passed away.

I have no idea what he thought about stem cells.

2006-11-07 23:31:50
167.   Greg Brock
165 This victory belongs to Rahm Emmanuel, not Nancy Peolosi. She was smart to stay out of the way of this one.
2006-11-07 23:33:30
168.   D4P
MSNBC's website keeps telling me that California's Prop 87 passed, when in fact it didn't
2006-11-07 23:34:38
169.   Big Game
that last one was to 162...
2006-11-07 23:37:18
170.   Big Game
167. She was very instrumental in fundraising and campaigning...as was Emmanuel. The Dems definitely need more people like Rahm Emmanuel on their side, that dude is tough as nails.
2006-11-07 23:39:28
171.   Greg Brock
170 He's very sharp, and tough as nails indeed. Very shrewd politician. He is to the Dems what Newt was to the GOP in the early 90's, before Newt started to buy into his press clippings a little too much.
2006-11-07 23:39:37
172.   Big Game
Jim Webb's lead in VA is growing to the point where the state doesnt automatically pay for a recount...the cost would be foisted upon the candidate challenging the results.
2006-11-07 23:39:57
173.   D4P
The race in Montana is getting closer
2006-11-07 23:40:18
174.   Big Game
171. Dare I say, Obama/Emmanuel in 08?
2006-11-07 23:41:22
175.   D4P
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a single incumbent Democrat lost
2006-11-07 23:42:15
176.   Greg Brock
174 If I were a betting man, I would say that it's going to be Evan Bayh or Joe Biden as the nominee, with Obama as a possible veep nominee.

McCain/Lindsey Graham beats anybody anyway.

2006-11-07 23:43:29
177.   Bob Timmermann
Monterey County is apparently unable to get its votes counted. It's the only county in California to not report anything.
2006-11-07 23:43:43
178.   Steve
175 -- Jim Marshall may still lose in Georgia.
2006-11-07 23:45:37
179.   Greg Brock
I should add that I don't think Hillary Clinton is going to run for president, which always shocks everybody, but shouldn't.

I just don't think she's going to run. Losing the primary (and she would) would be too much of a hit for her. She'll pull a Teddy Kennedy, and have a long and distinguished career in the Senate.

2006-11-07 23:45:57
180.   Bob Timmermann
175
Unless somebody in the House lost, you would be correct. I think it's just one of those things. Jefferson in Louisiana is going to have to go to runoff in their weird election system.
2006-11-07 23:47:12
181.   D4P
Does Greg Brock like MSNBC's Norah O'Donnell? She bares some resemblance to his beloved Kate Walsh...
2006-11-07 23:49:01
182.   Greg Brock
Everybody says Norah O'Donnell is gorgeous, and I just don't see it. But she's definitely very pretty.

Candy Crowley is my girl. KIDDING! Campbell Brown is my gal.

2006-11-07 23:49:08
183.   Big Game
Vermont has a self-described socialist as a Senator now. Bernie Sanders.
2006-11-07 23:52:00
184.   Greg Brock
183 He's been there for awhile. He's a really interesting fellow, to say the least.
2006-11-07 23:52:47
185.   D4P
Everybody says Norah O'Donnell is gorgeous

Tonight is the first night I've ever seen her. She's wearing too much eye makeup for my taste.

2006-11-07 23:53:48
186.   Bob Timmermann
I'm still trying to get used to the fact that Heath Shuler will be in Congress. It's sort of like picturing Cade McNown in the Senate.
2006-11-07 23:54:20
187.   Ravenscar
Can the narrow-margin loss in South Dakota in gay marriage be seen as some sort of moral victory for the liberals, compared to, say, Tennesee and the utterly wrong prediction of Wisconsin?

They beat the abortion thing handily.

2006-11-07 23:55:43
188.   Greg Brock
Athletes and actors are now what military leaders were in the 19th century.

Celebrity politicians aren't new. We just have different celbrities these days.

2006-11-07 23:56:52
189.   Bob Timmermann
188
But Jim Ryun lost his bid for reelection.
2006-11-07 23:56:59
190.   D4P
187
The last time I looked, it pretty much looked like all minimum-wage hikes were passing, all anti-abortion type measures were failing, and all anti-gay marriage type measures were passing.
2006-11-08 00:01:42
191.   Greg Brock
189 I figure that reality show contestants are the next great frontier in politics.

"Jim So and So...He won the Amazing Race 26, and he'll fight for a capital gains tax."

2006-11-08 00:06:35
192.   D4P
The gap in Montana is down to 5,200 or so
2006-11-08 00:10:44
193.   Bob Timmermann
Montana
Montana
Montana

It always comes down to Montana.

Just like "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington"

2006-11-08 00:17:21
194.   Greg Brock
Jefferson Smith could never make it today.

"Jefferson Smith would like you to think that he's got your best interests at heart. But what was he doing out there, as a Boy Scout master, all those years in the woods? Jefferson Smith, he can't be trusted."

Paid for by friends of Jim Taylor.

2006-11-08 00:20:56
195.   Steve
193 -- In 2002, Montana cast roughly 300,000 votes in its Senate race. If turnout is similar (and it's probably a little higher but for the sake of argument), Burns would have to win roughly 18,000 to 12,000 of the outstanding votes, or 60/40 in a race he's currently losing 50/48.

You do the math.

2006-11-08 00:23:21
196.   D4P
195
That's a real tester...
2006-11-08 00:24:37
197.   Uncle Miltie
This man looks an awful lot like Steve Lavin
http://tinyurl.com/lye7z
2006-11-08 00:31:29
198.   Greg Brock
Steve Lavin would never smoke. He only uses lighters to set beloved basketball programs on fire.
2006-11-08 00:38:07
199.   Uncle Miltie
198- you're probably right. I wouldn't want to see an open flame near that hair.
2006-11-08 00:41:58
200.   Steve
McClintock is tracking very closely to Simon 2002, which suggests that he is going to lose.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-11-08 00:55:49
201.   Steve
I take back Montana. Yellowstone County (35,000 votes) is "counting the ballots again" according to its website. Let the conspiracy theories commence.
2006-11-08 00:58:14
202.   Greg Brock
201 It's a done deal for the most part in Montana. Burns is beat, Allen is beat in Virginia, and the Democrats control both houses of Congress.

And I need to sleep. Democracy in action! It's kind of tiring.

2006-11-08 06:53:19
203.   50 years a Dodger Fan
While you're on a political kick, here's a cute video to watch. I don't think it violates any of Jon's rules:

http://i.euniverse.com/funpages/cms_content/13180/HillaryCondi_HoDown.swf

2006-11-08 07:31:38
204.   Bumsrap
Joe Lieberman probably enjoyed election day the most. Lets hear it for Independents!!

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