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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Schmidt KOed (Sort Of) Five Times in 32 Starts in '06
2006-12-07 19:05
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Jason Schmidt made 20 quality starts in 2006. Here are the line scores of his performance in his other 12 games:

010 012 0
010 003 1
013 010 0
000 001 (5 2/3 innings pitched)
031 000 2
021 00
000 014 3
100 302
004 4
000 001 21 (7 innings pitched)
000 03
000 400 0

  • In three games, he exceeded three runs allowed by the end of the third inning.

  • In five games, he exceeded three runs allowed by the end of the fourth inning.

  • In eight games, he exceeded three runs allowed by the end of the sixth inning.

  • In three games, he held the opponent to three runs or less but did not pitch six innings.

  • In one game, he held the opponent to one run over six innings but gave up three runs in the next two innings.

    Overall, after six innings in each of his 32 starts in 2006, Schmidt held the opponent to three earned runs or less in 21.

    * * *

    From Steve Henson of the Times:

    It was 1 a.m. Thursday and the Dodgers' general manager shuffled into the team's winter meetings hotel suite, shirttail out, poured a celebratory light beer into a paper cup and plopped into a chair.

    "We got what we wanted without giving up the kids," he said. ...

    Colletti, impatient by nature, said he would force himself to slow the pace and allow one major deal to develop to bring a bonafide slugger to the Dodgers for one or more of his surplus starting pitchers and, yes, maybe even one of the "kids."

    "We'll get [Schmidt and (Luis) Gonzalez] finished, then we can let the dust settle and see where we are," he said. "There are few components of a team more valuable than pitching and good young players. We didn't sacrifice one for the other."

    * * *

    From Dodgers public relations director Josh Rawitch at Inside the Dodgers:

    (James) Loney may very well be ready (or he may not, we won't know until we see it every day), but he should get about 40 games at first base and a bunch more spelling Gonzalez on some days and (Andre) Ethier on others (plus possible DH games, etc). In my opinion, this is an ideal way to break a kid into the Majors (facing primarily right-handers, without all the pressure of an every day job at 22 years old)

    For those who believe this team is old, I'm not sure what to say; in the everyday lineup, there should be only two guys over 35 (Kent and Gonzalez) and five guys under 30 (Pierre, Furcal, Ethier, Martin, Betemit). Penny and Billingsley are under 30, Wolf is 30 and Schmidt and Lowe are both in their mid-30s but are bonafide stars based on their track records.

    I guess I'm not too sure what power hitter people wanted Ned to go get - we were in on just about every power-hitting free agent there was, but in cases like (Alfonso) Soriano and Aramis Ramirez, we can't make Los Angeles further east than it is. And it seems like most people didn't think that trading for Manny (Ramirez) made sense, given the price. As for the other guys rumored to be available (Andruw Jones, Vernon Wells, etc.), I'd be stunned if either of those guys gets moved for anything less than a gargantuan package of prospects and both are one-year rentals and will surely test the market, given the current landscape.

  • Comments (304)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2006-12-07 19:15:32
    1.   natepurcell
    is this suppose to be a pro or anti schmidt post?
    2006-12-07 19:23:56
    2.   Bob Timmermann
    Does it have to be pro or anti? Can't it just be informational?
    2006-12-07 19:24:29
    3.   brandesh
    I think that's for us to decide.
    2006-12-07 19:28:11
    4.   Andrew Shimmin
    Shuttle launch scrubbed. Thanks again, Florida!
    2006-12-07 19:29:12
    5.   Louis in SF
    I think when you look at Schmidt for next year, a neat comparison might be to look at the total starts of Perez what they allowed and then plug in Schmidt, that is where his value will be. If everyone else does the same thing, he becomes quite a bit of a net plus. I'll research this shortly and put it up.
    2006-12-07 19:33:27
    6.   natepurcell
    http://tinyurl.com/yjkdt6

    can this man be trusted?

    2006-12-07 19:41:21
    7.   Robert Daeley
    Can anybody? Check out this NY Times story:

    http://tinyurl.com/yfcxxs

    "Talk of Misconduct Is Swirling Around Red Sox"

    "According to executives of several clubs, the Red Sox were a hot topic of private conversation at the general managers' meeting last month and at the winter meetings this week. Several officials who work for Major League Baseball said there appeared to be good reason for the talk. Many of those interviewed did not want to be quoted by name because of what they viewed as the sensitivity of talking critically about another team's conduct."

    2006-12-07 19:43:52
    8.   Greg S
    According to ESPN, Bonds has just agreed to terms with the Giants on a 1 year $16M contract.
    My reaction: Good. Good stories need a bad guy and Bonds being a member of the Giants makes them the bad guys. It will be sweet when we bury him/them one more time.
    2006-12-07 19:44:41
    9.   rockmrete
    I think that Schimdt can possibly have a bigger impact on Penny this comming year than what Maddox did, or could have. Schimdt is a power pitcher like Penny, difference is Schimdt's offspeed stuff, and timely use of said junk.
    2006-12-07 19:47:45
    10.   natepurcell
    from the article in 7

    Others described Colletti as angry about the Drew development and said that relations between Colletti and Theo Epstein, Boston's general manager, had become strained to the point where Colletti wasn't returning Epstein's telephone calls.

    colletti really holds grudges doesnt he?

    2006-12-07 19:51:50
    11.   Greg S
    10. Of course it's true but I don't see how we prove it. If we could prove it, I wonder what we could get? What precedence is there for compensation for tampering?
    2006-12-07 19:52:11
    12.   Bob Timmermann
    10
    A few weeks isn't long enough to be a grudge. Colletti is just ticked off.

    Now if Colletti didn't return Theo Epstein's calls for several years, then you're in grudge territory.

    I fancy myself a grudge expert.

    2006-12-07 19:52:52
    13.   natepurcell
    penny is another pitcher who can benefit greatly from learning schmidt's 4 seam circle change. When Schmidt was traded to SF, i think santiago taught him that pitch and since then, hes been of the premier power pitchers in the NL.
    2006-12-07 19:57:20
    14.   Greg S
    Penny can learn from Jenny Craig.
    I really believe that his ERA was moving in lock step with his waist line in the second half. I would sure be happy to see him show up minus 25 pounds or so.
    2006-12-07 19:59:03
    15.   rockmrete
    I recall when SF brought him in thinking he was a good pitcher. And then sadly for me at the time, seeing him become an Ace for their staff.
    2006-12-07 20:00:39
    16.   still bevens
    That article is somewhat laughable because short of giving Drew an amount and making him a promise on paper or over the phone its not really enforceable. There was no question that Drew could get a better deal from any other team in the MLB due to the market.
    2006-12-07 20:01:39
    17.   saltcreek
    7. I am sure boston tamperd...and Boras was doing the Cora deal with Boston at the time Drew opted out so he and the red soxs were talking. There wont be any way to prove it though.
    2006-12-07 20:02:03
    18.   rockmrete
    He is quite round, and the socks showing off those skinny legs is not a pretty sight either.
    2006-12-07 20:04:47
    19.   Greg S
    16. I disagree...twice.
    If the Red Sox so much as discussed contract terms on Drew, that's tampering and it's against the rules. You can't necessarily prove it but it doesn't have to be an enforceable contract. And there was certainly a question about Drew getting more that $33M for 3 years, especially at the time he opted out. I think the general concensus was that he would be crazy to think he could do better and that he probably wasn't crazy and that's why everybody thinks there was tampering involved. I said it right when he opted out and I know I wasn't alone.
    2006-12-07 20:09:06
    20.   Jon Weisman
    19 - I have no idea whether there was tampering or not. However, clearly Colletti and X number of general managers knew by Drew's opt-out date the gargantuan sums of money they'd be allowed this offseason. (It's not as if the $44 million for Pierre suddenly appeared inside Colletti's Thanksgiving turkey.) I have no trouble believing that Boras figured out on his own there would be all kinds of money out there.
    2006-12-07 20:10:38
    21.   Andrew Shimmin
    Outrageous lies that only a misogynist like D4P could find at all funny. Really, just awful:

    http://tinyurl.com/ydvb4s

    2006-12-07 20:15:22
    22.   Greg Brock
    Everything tastes better in italics.
    2006-12-07 20:16:05
    23.   Greg S
    20. I think Colletti was genuinely shocked that Drew opted out. I don't think he would have been shocked if he believed Drew would be leaving $20M on the table by staying. I don't think he knew. Perhaps he should have. I didn't see it coming, my first though was that he was crazy and my second thought was tampering.
    2006-12-07 20:17:19
    24.   Greg S
    23. I beg you pardon... leaving $37 million on the table.
    2006-12-07 20:19:00
    25.   Greg Brock
    My previous post is now more outdated than a Judge Ito joke.

    Darn you, quick fixes.

    2006-12-07 20:19:29
    26.   Jon Weisman
    20 - Colletti might have been shocked, but I'm confident the shock was over Drew's 180, not the reasons behind the 180.

    I think as long as we're looking hard at this situation, the more relevant reaction from Colletti was disappointment. The logical conclusion is that he thought he had right field solved at what was becoming a relative bargain.

    2006-12-07 20:19:49
    27.   Jon Weisman
    22 - You broke the five-minute rule. Bob can explain.
    2006-12-07 20:21:30
    28.   Greg Brock
    I'll guess that the Philosopher King gets five minutes to fix stuff before commenting.

    I just showed up. I didn't know! Sincerest apologies, oh Great One.

    2006-12-07 20:26:45
    29.   Greg S
    26. I agree that Colletti was shocked at least in part because Drew had made it clear he was staying. But wouldn't you agree that thinking a player would stay and leave $37 million in guaranteed money on the table when his agent is Scott Boras would be terribly misguided?
    For the record, I'm sure tampering goes on all the time with most every organization.
    2006-12-07 20:27:48
    30.   Louis in SF
    Just read the NY Times article and now I understand why Eric Gagne will not be a Dodger in 2007. While I understand Colleti's anger at the Sox, his anger is misplaced. Boras spoke to Drew and told him he could make more money if he opted out. Drew for whatever reasons did.

    Ironically whatever happens Drew and Boras win, even if he is a total bust in Boston.

    2006-12-07 20:28:44
    31.   underdog
    4 Speaking of Florida, I'm stuck in this miserable state for the week/weekend. Wish me luck!

    As for Schmidt, I was already feeling pretty good about this signing but then compared to the Royals signing Gil Meche to a five-year, $55M deal, felt even better. I'm not sure Schmidt has more than 2 yrs in him but still, better he's with us than agin' us.

    As for Luis Gonzales - meh. I'm with Jon on this one, not excited, but like it as a sign the team wants to give young uns a chance to take over. Prefer this to trading favorites youngsters for Manny Ramirez..

    I sure do like our starting pitching now.

    Okay now back to feeling irritable in Florida.

    2006-12-07 20:29:30
    32.   Greg S
    21. This explains why my girlfriend Loves Raymond.
    2006-12-07 20:41:15
    33.   Disabled List
    From the article in 7: Skeptics suspect that the Red Sox let Drew know that if he exercised his right to leave the Dodgers, he could get a more lucrative contract from them.

    I swear, I had a conversation about this with my roommate even before Drew signed with the Sox, when the rumors were just floating around. I suspected, only half-jokingly, that Epstein gave Boras a wink and a nudge in regards to what Drew could expect on the open market.

    Of course, the tampering is practically unprove-able. Barring a smoking gun, like a taped phone conversation or an intercepted e-mail between Theo and Boras, guilt will never be definitively established. Kinda like Bonds and the steroids. Plausible deniability the whole way.

    2006-12-07 20:45:41
    34.   trainwreck
    Those quotes about the prospects make me feel good. I am at more of an ease now.
    2006-12-07 20:48:54
    35.   Greg Brock
    First Ned throws a hissy fit at Boras for Drew's opt out, and now it's reported that he refused to take Epstein's phone calls.

    I can understand being upset, but this behavior bothers me. If you believe the Red Averages tampered, then file a grievance and move on. If you're upset at Epstein, take the phone call, express your displeasure with his actions, and move on.

    You can't decide to ignore Boras clients, because there are players out there you want, and you can't refuse to talk with a GM, because there are possibly beneficial deals out there. This is not tiddly winks (Is this tiddly winks? No? Okay), it's a tough business.

    2006-12-07 20:51:18
    36.   Eric L
    I suspected, only half-jokingly, that Epstein gave Boras a wink and a nudge in regards to what Drew could expect on the open market.

    I'm kind of with Jon on this one. Boras, as evil one might think he is, is pretty sharp.

    If Boras needed a wink and a nudge to get an idea that the market was going to explode, he might need to find a new line of work.

    2006-12-07 20:56:17
    37.   Jon Weisman
    28 - :)
    2006-12-07 20:59:21
    38.   Bob Timmermann
    35
    Remember two years ago when the Yankees said they would never deal with DePodesta again over the putative Brad Penny/Javier Vazquez (and others) deal?

    I guess they Yankees got over that.

    As for tampering, the Dodgers would need to find some sort of "smoking gun" where someone from the Red Sox explicitly stated that they wanted Drew on their team. I doubt that it could be proved.

    The cases of tampering that have been punished were usually very blatant statements. Such as Ted Turner openly speculating in the press about getting Gary Matthews The Elder on the Braves.

    2006-12-07 21:00:52
    39.   Bob Timmermann
    The five minute rule should exist on the Griddle, but people just like to stick it to me out of spite.

    I probably deserve it.

    2006-12-07 21:09:26
    40.   Greg Brock
    39 I don't think "spite" would be the right word.

    Good natured ribbing, most probably.

    2006-12-07 21:15:11
    41.   Disabled List
    36 If Boras needed a wink and a nudge to get an idea that the market was going to explode, he might need to find a new line of work.

    He may not have needed a wink and a nudge, but that doesn't necessarily mean he didn't get one. Theo was drooling over Drew (Drew-ling?) the instant he opted out, and probably quite a bit before. He's pretty sharp, too. It wouldn't surprise me if he was more cognizant of Drew's opt-out clause than Colletti.

    Of course, all the evidence of tampering is circumstantial, and it's pretty flimsy at that. This may be all conjecture and speculation, but that's what blogs and internet message boards are for.

    2006-12-07 21:16:19
    42.   LAT
    The only way you will prove tampering is when someone from the Boston front office is grudgingly fired and goes public. Of course, this won't happen for quite a while and by then no one will care.
    2006-12-07 21:17:46
    43.   Bob Timmermann
    40
    I hold grudges...
    2006-12-07 21:18:25
    44.   Greg Brock
    43 That what my file says.
    2006-12-07 21:21:14
    45.   Greg S
    38. Ah yes, Gary Matthews Sr was the object of tampering. The circle of life. Ted Tuner was a raving lunatic and openly taunted the Giants' GM in the lobby of a hotel that he would pay Matthews double whatever the Giants would pay when be became a free agent. Times were different. Matthews signed with Turner's Braves and Turner was suspended for a year. Don't think the Giants got any compensation though.
    2006-12-07 21:35:21
    46.   GMac In The 909
    35 Excellent use of Red Averages. It made me laugh here at work.
    2006-12-07 21:37:41
    47.   Bob Timmermann
    Most people avoid tense situations. Good GMs (and repo men) live for tense situations!
    2006-12-07 22:00:23
    48.   das411
    Eric Gagne lives for tense situations.

    --runs away--

    2006-12-07 22:06:27
    49.   sakesake
    7

    I have one quick question, if the MLB investigates the Bosox for tampering, and the outcome is that the Bosox did tamper, to what extent will the Dodgers be effected?

    2006-12-07 22:19:44
    50.   overkill94
    One thing about Gagne I don't understand...

    Some people are begging for Ned to give him the 1-year contract he desires, but seriously, what's the use? If he's gonna test the waters after next year anyway, why even bother with him? We have Broxton as our closer-in-waiting, so what good does bringing back an extreme risk in Gagne get us? A few more t-shirt sales if he even pitches for an extended amount of time? I think it's truly time to cut bait; it's not like he ended his contract intact and is looking for a fair offer to be re-signed.

    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2006-12-07 22:27:18
    51.   Eric L
    It wouldn't surprise me if he was more cognizant of Drew's opt-out clause than Colletti.

    Ah, but was he more cognizant of the opt-out clause than Kim Ng?

    2006-12-07 22:27:24
    52.   Bob Timmermann
    49
    In the unlikely event that the Red Sox were found guilty of tampering, Commissioner Selig could decide a lot of things. He probably would impose a hefty fine. I can't imagine that the Red Sox would be prohibited from signing free agents or anyone would be suspended. You couldn't force Drew to go back to the Dodgers.
    2006-12-07 22:29:45
    53.   gpellamjr
    50 In my case I'd just really like to see Gagne back for old time's sake, just to see what could happen. I also think the offense is going to be significantly weaker than last year, but we have the chance to have a pretty dominating pitching staff from top to bottom.
    2006-12-07 22:40:06
    54.   dsfan
    Ned's angry finger-pointing only reinforces my view that Ned was remiss in how he handled the Drew/Boras situation, dating to last summer. At such a late juncture for Colletti to be caught surprised by either Drew's ability to exceed $33 million ir the marketplace or the willingness of Boras/Drew to test the market is a mark against Colletti and perhaps his staff. Unless Drew had given them a sworn affadavit, the onus was on the Dodgers to stay up to speed on the situation. They should have been consistently checking on it since last summer -- Ned, Ng, someone. Boilerplate quotes from Drew in the Orange County Register do not constitute due diligence.

    Colletti would be underperforming if he ruled out future dealings with either Boras or Epstein. GMs must set aside personal issues and keep circuits open with all other GMs and agents. However if he is wary of Boras and Epstein that is a good thing.

    The Dodgers are down to one Boras client. Generally I think this is a good thing. And if Ned's anger at Epstein caused Ned to be more wary about trading the farm for Manny, so much the better.

    2006-12-07 22:40:58
    55.   overkill94
    I don't see how everyone thinks the offense will be weaker. Betemit should be better than everything we threw out at 3B last year, Pierre should be approximately the equivalent of Lofton, and a combination of Gonzo and Loney shouldn't be that much of a step down from Drew, especially in the power department. I expect Kent and Nomar to at least meet last year's production and believe Martin will improve at least a little. I agree it won't be quite as potent, but being "significantly weaker" is not something I see out of next year's team.
    2006-12-07 22:41:53
    56.   sakesake
    52

    Thanks a lot.

    2006-12-07 22:48:49
    57.   dsfan
    Rather than tampering stories, I'd love to see the NYT explain how Ned gave Pierre that fifth year. Yeah, four is too many, but it's that fifth year that intrigues me. Did the Dodgers even have a preset limit going into those talks? Would have it been so hard to say, "Four, that's our final offer."
    2006-12-07 22:53:34
    58.   dsfan
    I think the most interesting story in the NL West is the Helton trade rumors. I just don't see how the Rockies can ever build something when they're paying so much to one player. Helton is due like $90 million, gobbiling up about 30-percent of their payroll. In 2011 alone, he is due $23.7 million. It's going to be painful for them, but I think the Rockies need to deal Helton sometime in 2007. If he has a good spring training and shows he's recovered from the health problems of 2006, I would move him, even if it meant eating a lot of money. Maybe the Angels will end up with him. Helton probably would agree to go there.
    2006-12-07 22:56:39
    59.   Greg Brock
    Boras clients= Good players
    Good players= Winning
    Winning= :)

    I don't care if Boras is a shady character (it just seems to me that he's really good at his job). I would like good players. Therefore, I would like to deal with Scott Boras.

    It science.

    2006-12-07 23:00:42
    60.   Greg Brock
    If you don't want your team to deal with Scott Boras because you believe they might be snookered into a bad deal, it seems the problem is with your team's snookerability factor, not Boras.

    Be competent enough to make good deals, and you can negotiate with anybody.

    2006-12-07 23:05:18
    61.   Vishal
    [53] weaker? perhaps, but not "significantly". certainly not weaker than our pitching is stronger.
    2006-12-07 23:11:09
    62.   Vishal
    [60] going back to your earlier equations, however...

    boras clients = massive overpayment
    massive overpayments = teams with high "snookerability factor"
    teams with high snookerability factor = many many teams in MLB

    if you don't overpay a boras client, someone else will. and then you don't get the good player, and you don't get the winning.

    2006-12-07 23:11:56
    63.   Vishal
    oh, and most importantly, you don't get the :)

    and you know we all want the :)

    2006-12-07 23:17:53
    64.   CanuckDodger
    59. Using Greg's permises, Darren Dreifort was a Boras client, therefore Dreifort was good, and because we signed Dreifort to a five year contract, we were winners. Just go with it.
    2006-12-07 23:17:53
    65.   CanuckDodger
    59. Using Greg's permises, Darren Dreifort was a Boras client, therefore Dreifort was good, and because we signed Dreifort to a five year contract, we were winners. Just go with it.
    2006-12-07 23:17:59
    66.   CanuckDodger
    59. Using Greg's permises, Darren Dreifort was a Boras client, therefore Dreifort was good, and because we signed Dreifort to a five year contract, we were winners. Just go with it.
    2006-12-07 23:19:26
    67.   CanuckDodger
    Wow, I think that is my first triple! Woo hoo!
    2006-12-07 23:25:07
    68.   natepurcell
    triplets overtaking Dodgerdom.
    2006-12-07 23:26:51
    69.   Greg Brock
    The All-Boras Team:

    1st Base: Mark Teixeira
    2nd Base: Felipe Lopez
    3rd Base: Alex Rodriguez
    SS: Steven Drew
    C: Pudge Rodriguez
    LF: Barry Bonds/Magglio Ordonez/
    CF-Carlos Beltran/Andruw Jones
    RF: JD Drew

    Pitchers: Jered Weaver/Barry Zito/Matsuzaka (I could name a lot).

    And this took about two minutes. I'm sure I could come up with better team. Not dealing with Scott Boras is a silly proposition on its face, but I thought this would be fun.

    2006-12-07 23:28:59
    70.   Greg Brock
    64 I think you know the folly of using one player to argue against dozens of players Scott Boras controls.

    My TV broke=Never buy another television for the rest of my life.

    Doesn't work as an argument.

    2006-12-07 23:30:00
    71.   StolenMonkey86
    54 - Who's our one Boras guy?
    2006-12-07 23:32:08
    72.   CanuckDodger
    69 -- The proposition "Boras clients = good players" may bear some superficial resemblance to the proposition "Boras has a lot of good players as clients," but the propositions are, in fact, very different.
    2006-12-07 23:32:11
    73.   StolenMonkey86
    never mind, it's D-Lowe.

    You know what would have been really nice about if Colletti decided not do deal with Boras clients? We wouldn't have gotten Lance Carter.

    2006-12-07 23:33:37
    74.   StolenMonkey86
    69 - don't forget Chan Ho Park, Bruce Chen, Lance Carter
    2006-12-07 23:34:58
    75.   Greg Brock
    72 I'm pretty sure you know that it was a given.
    2006-12-07 23:35:56
    76.   tjshere
    69 Check me if I'm wrong, but isn't Bonds' agent named Borris?
    2006-12-07 23:36:53
    77.   Greg Brock
    Yes, yes. Let's never deal with Scott Boras again. That'll show him.

    Unless you guys are just nit picking and arguing for the sake of nit picking and arguing. In which case, bravo.

    2006-12-07 23:37:34
    78.   Greg Brock
    76 I meant to take him off, which is why Magglio is on there.
    2006-12-07 23:37:56
    79.   Greg Brock
    Bonds is a former client.
    2006-12-07 23:38:28
    80.   Andrew Shimmin
    Ned Colletti's Ten Steps to Better Payback

    1. Stamp feet, shout, "It's not fair!"
    2. Cry (privately)
    3. Tell local press that he's really happy things worked out the way they did.
    4. Tattle to Bud Selig.
    5. Stop returning phone calls.
    6. Start rumor involving teenage ticket taker.
    7. Male, teenage ticket taker.
    8. Cry (still privately)
    9. Sign Louis Gonzalez
    10. Profit.

    2006-12-07 23:39:24
    81.   CanuckDodger
    70 -- Actually, all I needed to point to was ONE Boras client who was NOT good to refute what you said in post #59. Honestly, I don't think you would want to try to defend what you said in #59.
    2006-12-07 23:39:24
    82.   CanuckDodger
    70 -- Actually, all I needed to point to was ONE Boras client who was NOT good to refute what you said in post #59. Honestly, I don't think you would want to try to defend what you said in #59.
    2006-12-07 23:40:04
    83.   Greg Brock
    80 You forgot:

    11. Exclaim "I'm never signing those stupid Boras players again!"

    2006-12-07 23:42:01
    84.   Greg Brock
    I was using shorthand to say that Boras represents many good players. I did not think I would have to get into a semantics argument of the all powerful = sign.

    I'm pretty sure you're just arguing this for fun. You had to have known. You're a sharp guy.

    2006-12-07 23:46:45
    85.   overkill94
    But think of all the non-Boras clients that are really good! Honestly, does anyone ever feel good after they sign a Boras client? (except for Lowe, which looked kinda bad at the time but now looks good)
    2006-12-07 23:51:18
    86.   xaphor
    There was a very public tampering case (or "tapping up" as we call it) in the English Premiere League in which members of Chelsea's front office met with Arsenal defender Ashley Cole and agent about a future contract in a London hotel. Arsenal found out and complained loudly and publicly to the Football Association who proceeded to looked into the case.

    When the dust settled a couple years later Chelsea and Ashley Cole were both fined, Chelsea won the league, Cole made his money back with a tell all book, and Arsenal traded the disgruntled defender to Chelsea who had a disgruntled defender of their own to offer in return.

    In the eternal words of the Wu-Tang Clan, C.R.E.A.M.

    2006-12-07 23:53:17
    87.   Robert Daeley
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clients_of_Scott_Boras
    2006-12-07 23:53:21
    88.   natepurcell
    from joe sheehan at BP about schmidt.

    *Jason Schmidt really does look like he'll be a Dodger, following some talk late yesterday that his three-year, $47-million deal with the team was not going to be closed. I love this contract; it's the second time in two offseasons that the Dodgers have stretched the average annual value of a contract on a deal that's a bit shorter than what a typical player will land. Rafael Furcal, one year ago, signed a three-year, $39-million deal, a contract I also loved.

    Say it with me now: it's not the money, it's the length. We just aren't good enough at player projection--and players aren't good enough at sustaining their value--to make contracts of longer than three years a good choice. This deal commits the Dodgers to Schmidt for about as far out as you can reasonably project his performance, and limits their exposure down the road.*

    Nate Silver, in Unfiltered, had Schmidt's 2007 PECOTA-projected ERA as 4.13, a sign that PECOTA's been hanging out with the wrong crowd again, doing lines off hookers' backs after Nate goes to bed at night. Schmidt is a power pitcher with pretty good durability and solid peripheral numbers, and he's going to another home park that treats power pitchers well. Schmidt's most recent win-loss records may have contributed to the idea that he's something less, but those numbers are tainted by the support he's received. There's not much reason to think Barry Zito will outpitch him over the next three seasons, and for 2007, I think there's a better chance that he challenges for the ERA title than a mark above 4.00. This is an excellent signing by the Dodgers, who are rapidly becoming the Sybil of the transaction wire.

    hes optimistic.

    2006-12-07 23:59:03
    89.   CanuckDodger
    72 -- I didn't think you could believe what is propsosed in #59, but as long as you said something way more extreme than what you believe, how can we argue about what you really believe? What you believe has to be made clear first. Now that it IS clear, I will say that since there is a record of Boras clients flopping and flopping badly, to go along with the record of success stories, if we make a stand and say we would prefer to deal with agents who represent OTHER good players, we are not closing the door on a bunch of players who would be sure things. If there were such a thing as an agent with players who ALWAYS deliver fair value for their contracts, then of course we would be foolish to ignore that agent and his players. But no such agent exists. A team choosing to ignore a certain agent because of that agent's business conduct is not really any different than a consumer deciding he isn't going to shop at a store where he has been dealt with in a shabby way by the staff. There's always another store.
    2006-12-08 00:06:19
    90.   Greg Brock
    If this were an episode of The Office, I would be looking into the camera right now.
    2006-12-08 00:06:25
    91.   Andrew Shimmin
    89- It's the same market dynamic as deciding not to sign Venezuelans. Some Venezuelans are good, some are bad; what could it hurt to only sign Dominicans and Koreans and Americans? Well, it artificially constrains your free movement, while also helping your competitors by lowering their prices.
    2006-12-08 00:07:27
    92.   Greg Brock
    I guess we just agree to disagree, Canuck. No worries. I'm off to sleep.
    2006-12-08 00:14:18
    93.   xaphor
    89. I find it hard to believe Boras works in a manor so out of line with other agents to warrant such action. If he did the first ones complaining would be his peers (after all they are his true competitors). Boras might wander into shady ground on occasion, but it's his success that brings about these accusations. His actions are probably on par with every other agent in the biz.
    2006-12-08 00:21:17
    94.   Vishal
    [93] well, boras is certainly quite wealthy. i bet he's built himself a very fine manor, probably better than any other agent's. ;)
    2006-12-08 00:21:41
    95.   CanuckDodger
    91 -- If the Dodgers were to become known as a team that refuses to deal with Boras -- and we would not be the first, the Chicago White Sox are already known throughout baseball for being unwilling to talk to Boras -- how big of a dent would that put in the prices for Boras clients? Frankly, I don't think it would change Boras's prices at all, because there are too many teams still willing to deal with Boras and willing to bid against each other. Boras also consciously tries to set the upper limit of the market. Tiffany's doesn't lower its prices on diamonds because many people won't, or can't afford, to shop there.
    2006-12-08 00:22:45
    96.   Bob Timmermann
    I find it hard to believe Boras works in a manor

    Stately Boras Manor?

    2006-12-08 00:30:32
    97.   xaphor
    94. He strikes me as more of a beach house kind of guy.
    2006-12-08 00:33:18
    98.   CanuckDodger
    93 -- Boras's peers DO complain about him (just ask Sosnick, the guy who was BRIEFLY Hochevar's agent). Boras' power doesn't depend on what other agents, or teams, think about him. His players are his power, and he gets top dollar for his players, so they stay loyal and he attracts new clients based on what he did for his old clients. You have to understand, when Boras gets a Darren Dreifort a $55 million contract, in the eyes of players that makes Boras look like GOD. Any agent can get a player WORTH that kind of money that kind of money. Getting a guy far more than what he is worth, that isn't so easy, unless we are talking about the market place right now.
    2006-12-08 00:34:31
    99.   Andrew Shimmin
    The market for diamonds is a good metaphor for nearly nothing.

    The price difference opting out of Boras clients would occasion would not be huge, and it wouldn't attach to each of his clients, but it's a hard case to make that decreasing demand doesn't actually lower price.

    2006-12-08 00:41:59
    100.   xaphor
    98. Which is exactly why other agents would file a real complaint about the guy if they thought he was going beyond the law for his clients. Bad mouthing in the press sounds more like sour grapes than someone who felt they were truly wronged. If the rest of the agenting world can't get off their tuckus to reel in Boras evil agent extraordinaire, what does that say about them.
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2006-12-08 00:54:46
    101.   xaphor
    I would however be in full support of a Boras boycott on the grounds that our GM is an incompetent fool ripe for the picking. :)

    Not you Ned, you're more of a fool me once, cry all the way home to mummy and avoid the school yard kind of guy. Not to worry though, all the short bus kids who can't get on base and throw like a girl will still play with you if you pay them enough. :)

    2006-12-08 01:02:25
    102.   Andrew Shimmin
    Hate mail about organic, free range, chicken broth. Awesome. One of these has to be from D4P. Just has to.

    http://www.dooce.com/archives/daily/12_07_2006.html

    2006-12-08 01:07:37
    103.   xaphor
    102. I'd imagine it mentioned wanting them locked up in a cage popping out offspring like all good females should. :)
    2006-12-08 01:08:21
    104.   trainwreck
    102
    That was pretty funny.
    2006-12-08 01:22:50
    105.   xaphor
    103. I appear to be mistaken, D4P, discriminator of chicks without feathers.

    As penance I offer up the following:
    http://tinyurl.com/ybmadv

    2006-12-08 01:25:24
    106.   Andrew Shimmin
    I've always wondered if Jon gets hate mail. Lots of traffic, so it seemed likely, but there was always the problem of there not seeming to be anything hatable about him. But if multiple people are good for chicken broth hate mail, that must mean he does get some.

    103- I can't tell you how happy it makes me that other people are picking up the D4P hates women meme. It's like I've finally accomplished something, in this life. Thank you, xaphor!

    2006-12-08 01:25:31
    107.   Sagehen
    If Ned wasn't returning Epstein's phone calls, then how did Epstein ask him for 3 or 4 top prospects in exchange for Ramirez? Perhaps Ned wasn't returning Epstein's phone calls because his trade proposals weren't serious and it had nothing to do with a "grudge." Or perhaps Logan White unplugged the phone so that Ned couldn't trade all the prospects for Ramirez. The two rumors contradict each other.
    2006-12-08 01:44:18
    108.   Robert Daeley
    D4P doesn't "hate women" -- he just thinks it's too broad a topic. ;)
    2006-12-08 01:48:22
    109.   Vishal
    [107] SMS text messaging, i gather.

    "neddy! give u man-ram 4 kemp/brox/billz. u also have 2 ex. manny's opt. txt back asap plz!"

    2006-12-08 06:33:47
    110.   D4P
    I can't tell you how happy it makes me that other people are picking up the D4P hates women meme

    Preposterous!

    2006-12-08 06:34:18
    111.   Disabled List
    "no way theo! u tamprd w/ jd so u can hav kemp/brox but no billz. lugo sux btw."
    2006-12-08 07:34:07
    112.   JoeyP
    and a combination of Gonzo and Loney shouldn't be that much of a step down from Drew

    Wow, JD Drew cant even get much respect on DT.

    2006-12-08 07:52:49
    113.   Bumsrap
    I just have to think that AROD would have been happier if he had signed a five year $85M contract with a team he really wanted to play for instead of the 10 year $250M contract he signed with Texas.

    Beltre would have been happier if he had stayed in LA. Hochevar should not have missed a year of professional baseball.

    When it is all about the money greed becomes part of the thought process and greed never leads to to one's hightest good.

    Gagne, like Drew, said he really wanted to stay in LA, and yet he does not accept a $4M contract with great incentives to do so.

    Of course Ng won the arbitration case with Gagne and that upset him. So maybe he feels that the $20M he received for doing nothing the last two years was like winning that arbitration case and he owes the Dodgers nothing. Any other agent besides Boras might help him think that through differently.

    I like it that Ned now lets Boras come to him instead of the other way around.

    2006-12-08 07:57:13
    114.   Marty
    6 That picture proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Ned sports a (bad) piece on top of his head. Nobody has hair that sprouts from a single spot just above their forehead and then covers the entire head.

    So, no, I cannot trust someone like that.

    2006-12-08 08:00:27
    115.   D4P
    I hate men. You can't trust any of 'em.
    2006-12-08 08:02:56
    116.   Marty
    115 You're not getting off that easy.
    2006-12-08 08:03:16
    117.   Bumsrap
    If Ethier becomes the right fielder does that mean that he would not switch to left when Loney rests Gonzo? I would think that Loney would be better in right and Ethier in left even if it did mean Ethier having to deal with both outfield spots.

    To start the season in a way that gave Loney enough atbats to stay sharp I would like to see him each week spot Gonzo twice, Ethier once, and Nomar once. That would let him play 4 pre-scheduled games a week.

    That might be enough to force Little into playing him more either by moving Nomar to left or to third so Loney can play first where he belongs.

    2006-12-08 08:08:51
    118.   D4P
    Men are only interested in one thing, Marty.

    Take back the night!

    2006-12-08 08:12:32
    119.   Bumsrap
    If the Jays can't sign Wells to an extension would they rather have Wells for one more year or Penny for two years?

    I think I would rather have Wells for one year.

    If the Dodgers got Wells would they give him Beltran money to keep him past this year?

    If Wells were to play CF for the Dodgers would Pierre(1) move to left or to right or would Wells have to play right?

    2006-12-08 08:14:23
    120.   Big Game
    All of the tampering/Boras/Drew talk reminded me of hearing Desperate Housewives actor James Denton on Simers' morning show...Apparently, he's a big Dodger fan and had become friends with JD Drew. Denton relayed a story where Drew didnt know he was going to the Dodgers until Boras called to say he was signing the deal the night before it was announced.
    2006-12-08 08:14:44
    121.   Sushirabbit
    102+113 = If only Boras would use his power for good.

    If laughter is the best medicine, then Dodger Thoughts is the smartest (especially in math), hottest, 98th percentile redheaded, OPS toutin' nurse with that sweet syringe o' words.

    2006-12-08 08:18:53
    122.   D4P
    Desperate Housewives

    I don't watch that show. "Housewives" is a demeaning term.

    Ever read The Yellow Wallpaper? That's what happens: you go crazy until you walk out into the ocean and never come back.

    2006-12-08 08:19:04
    123.   Rocc
    First off, hey das411

    Next, if anyone wants a laugh...The Boston Herald reports that the Devil Rays are one of 5-6 teams inquiring about Eric Gagne.

    That caught me offguard...

    2006-12-08 08:21:51
    124.   JJoeScott
    119 - I think you also need to consider that you're getting Ethier (or the equivalent) for 5 years + Penny for 2 + whichever unproven MiLBer that will cause everyone to panic.

    I think the Dodgers HAVE to make that trade, and hope the revenues you net from the extra playoff wins this year can pay to re-sign Wells. (Though, frankly, I'd let Wells walk and take the draft picks.)

    2006-12-08 08:32:06
    125.   FirstMohican
    "When it is all about the money greed becomes part of the thought process and greed never leads to to one's hightest good."

    You say "all about the money", I say "getting paid what you're worth". The rest of the teams' offers (or lack of offers) determine's what you're worth, and if a team wants to pay you significantly lower than what you're worth, oh well, move on.

    2006-12-08 08:34:00
    126.   Rocc
    Well, the Dodgers were one of the biggest window-shoppers of one Mr. Baldelli. Sorry to Dodger fans, but Friedman pretty much called Crawford "untouchable".
    2006-12-08 08:39:02
    127.   Berkeley Doug
    113 Doesn't this ignore the fact that, ultimately, the players have a choice of where they would like to play if they have multiple offers. The agents works for the player and doesn't decide which offere to choose. If ARod would be happier somewhere else and received other competitive offers, he should have decided to play somewhere else versus playing with Texas.

    In the long run, what's a few million dollars a year when you already will be set for life and you can play for a team and in an atmosphere you prefer. Perhaps I'm just be overly naive....

    2006-12-08 08:50:01
    128.   DodgerHobbit
    127
    sometimes, with ultra-competitive people even their contracts are objects of competition even if they are already set for life. I guess it is a byproduct of a capitalistic society because it also goes on in a ton of offices.
    2006-12-08 08:50:56
    129.   FirstMohican
    "In the long run, what's a few million dollars a year when you already will be set for life and you can play for a team and in an atmosphere you prefer."

    I somewhat agree with that, but if the team you're on has the cash, why should the owner keep it and not you (assuming he has it)?

    2006-12-08 08:51:41
    130.   DodgerHobbit
    doh jose uribe died :(
    2006-12-08 08:54:55
    131.   Sagehen
    122. Better reread your Cliff's Notes. The ocean part is The Awakening.
    2006-12-08 09:04:20
    132.   Andrew Shimmin
    Jeane Kirkpatrick, RIP.

    http://tinyurl.com/sos44

    2006-12-08 09:13:52
    133.   Gen3Blue
    113 although I know i'm way predictable on this point--- Amen brother!

    Professional athletes are mostly too young to have learned that money is only a small factor in overall hapiness and well being.
    This is even more true of the importance of one ridiculous amount of money vs. another ridiculous amount.
    In fact this is one of my main objections to Boras. He obviously knows he want's more money, is good at getting it, and I would say more power to him. I worry however, about the young people he may cause great unhappiness in his rapacious quest for "MORE".

    2006-12-08 09:16:43
    134.   Bumsrap
    127--When clients sign on with Boras it seems that part of that agreement is to go where Boras can get the most money. If they really want to make the final choice among several offers they should sign on with another agent. That is not the way it seems to work with Boras.

    Also, when players sign up with Boras, they are announcing to all owners that it is about money, all about money, the signature goes to the highest bidder, and nothing is going to happen quickly.

    2006-12-08 09:19:17
    135.   LAT
    Ned was just on Simmers morning show. Summary,

    No chance of signing Gagne;

    Talk with Boston re Manny was never very serious. They will only trade Manny if they are "overwhelmed" with a deal;

    Gonzo good for 35 doubles, admits power is gone, good clubhouse guy. Real point of Gonzo was to make Kemp and Ethier compete for playing time;

    No rift with Boras, almost admitted he pouted about Drew but said he got over it quickly.

    I think thats it

    2006-12-08 09:21:07
    136.   DodgerHobbit
    I can see J.D. Drew's eyes light up when informed of the contract offer by Boston. He becomes more animated than any time anyone has ever seen him on camera and busts out with
    I like big Bucks and I cannot lie!
    2006-12-08 09:22:50
    137.   blue22
    126 - As the resident Rays fan in here, what are they looking for in exchange for Baldelli? Are they being reasonable, or are they looking for Billingsley? There'd be no interest in another outfielder (a la Andre Ethier) since they are trying to clear out room in the OF, correct?
    2006-12-08 09:23:04
    138.   50 years a Dodger Fan
    [125, 127, et al] If not "Greed", then "Ego". Being paid what he's worth is a euphemism for Ego.
    2006-12-08 09:24:12
    139.   DodgerHobbit
    135

    Dang, that sure is an expensive way to motivate two young players...while probably causing a disruptive Gonzo if both are sucessful in the process.

    2006-12-08 09:24:51
    140.   50 years a Dodger Fan
    137 Hall, Hendrickson,and Tomko if they twist our arm.
    2006-12-08 09:25:02
    141.   Daniel Zappala
    135 Colletti seems eminently reasonable. I still wish he could have found a better CFer (eg Church is available now), but he overall has done a good job.
    2006-12-08 09:26:19
    142.   Jonny6
    134
    I don't know if it's the reality or not, but that is also the impression that I get when it comes to being one of Boras' clients. The player CHOOSES to sign on with Boras, but after that it's Boras who makes the decision on where the player is going to end up. The player's best interests in regard to anything besides dollars - which city they want to live in, how their personality may mesh with a particular team - is ignored once you become a Boras client.

    Does anyone know how the player-agent contracts operate? Can a player simply fire Boras if he gets sick of dealing with his money-at-all costs antics? I'm sure they can dump Boras but something tells me he's written severe penalties into their agreement for any early breach of contract. After all, if the guy is capable of out negotiating most GM's, it doesn't seem much of a stretch to think he's outsmarting the players too.

    2006-12-08 09:27:04
    143.   Bumsrap
    125--That assumes that Boras' 100 page four color player biographies come close to reflecting what a player is worth. If the Dodgers were offering 5 years and $50M to Beltre was that less than what he was worth just because Seattle offered more?

    The market has taken a huge jump since Seattle signed Beltre and now they are trying to trade him because he isn't worth his cost even in today's dollars.

    Would you sell something for more than you know it is worth just because someone with less knowledge of its worth is willing to pay too much? What ethics are involved in that decision?

    2006-12-08 09:27:36
    144.   Berkeley Doug
    I don't think a player "sells his soul" by having Boras be his agent and it doesn't necessarily indicate that all he cares about his money.

    IIRC, Boras is Maddux's agent and I don't believe Maddux is all about the money. I'm sure some players use Boras because he does a great job of maximizing the amount of money each team may offer the player, but at the end of the day, the payer has the ultimate free will to decide where he wants to play.

    2006-12-08 09:28:45
    145.   regfairfield
    135 If Ned thinks that's what Gonzo can do, what the heck was he thinking? If he drops to 35 doubles and, say 11 home runs, while keeping his hit totals the same (the extra base hits become singles) then Gonzo will slug .412. Why on Earth would he want a corner outfielder that he thinks would slug .412? This is assuming his batting average stays the same. If those doubles become outs then he drops to a .375 slug.

    So, if this is what Ned thinks Gonzo is capable of, why would he sign him?

    2006-12-08 09:29:00
    146.   blue22
    140 - I was thinking more along the lines of Kuo, Meloan, and a hitter.
    2006-12-08 09:31:55
    147.   Berkeley Doug
    130 As someone who had attended many Giants games over the years...

    In memory of Jose Uribe, one last "Oooo-ree-bay."

    2006-12-08 09:31:58
    148.   LAT
    145. I think he sees Gonzo as a way to not hand the corners over to Kemp and Ethier.

    I wished Simmers or Rogin asked where Loney fits in.

    2006-12-08 09:33:17
    149.   regfairfield
    If he thinks Gonzo will slug .375-.412, why not just let Repko or Marlon Anderson put the pressure on them?
    2006-12-08 09:36:15
    150.   LAT
    He did list who the 25 man roster would be today and Repko was on the list.
    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2006-12-08 09:36:37
    151.   Andrew Shimmin
    It's possible, at the outside, that he's thinking of those 35 2Bs over a shorter period (half a season, then Kemp takes over) so the rates aren't so bad.
    2006-12-08 09:36:49
    152.   blue22
    147 - I say this with much love and all due respect right now, but the Uribe/Robby Thompson double play combo was instrumental in shaping my distaste for the Giants.

    Jose Uribe, Robby Thompson, Rick Reuschel, Jeffrey Leonard. Ugh, those were some hatable Giants.

    2006-12-08 09:38:00
    153.   Jonny6
    I just remembered a quick story I wanted to share with DT readers in honor of the last few days spent pontificating about Boras and his tactics.

    I was part of a focus group last night. It was a weird experience, but I got paid $35 bucks an hour for two easy hours. They had us look at a bunch of company pamphlets, brochures, and other literature and give them feedback.

    They handed us one particularly colorful brochure, and asked us to sum up our impression in one word.

    Forgetting for a second that I was in a boardroom with ten strangers, I blurted out in my best Homer Simpson voice:
    "Mmmmmmmmmmmm, glossy." I then spent several minutes trying to compose myself and not giggle uncontrollably. I think everyone thought I was completely nuts.

    2006-12-08 09:44:55
    154.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
    Jose Uribe vs. Dodgers (108 games, 332 PA): 209/255/254/509
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=uribejo01
    2006-12-08 10:00:08
    155.   Bumsrap
    137--The Rays have extra outfielders but they seem to want to replace them with less costly ones.

    They are not going to get equal value for Crawford if the players they want are a few years away from being eligible for arbitration.

    The concept of trading Penny, Tomko, and Hendrickson for Crawford is based on the Rays being able to retrade them one at a time to three teams in an effort to get what they want for Crawford.

    2006-12-08 10:05:46
    156.   blue22
    155 - Crawford could demand just about any young player going right now, short of maybe the tip-top pitching prospects. I don't see how any one of Penny, Tomko, or Hendrickson pulls anything in the area code of what Crawford gets in a trade.

    For LA to pull Crawford, they'd have to give up Billingsley and Kemp.

    2006-12-08 10:05:56
    157.   Bumsrap
    146--Maloan has the best arm in the Dodger organization. Give him a chance.
    2006-12-08 10:13:27
    158.   blue22
    157 - Wait, I thought that was Greg Miller, or Clayton Kershaw, or...well, you get the drift. LA has a lot of good arms in the organization, and Meloan is projecting to be a reliever.
    2006-12-08 10:14:01
    159.   Bumsrap
    156--Let the Rays get the Billingsley and Kemp types from teams other than the Dodgers. Teams that want pitching now and are willing to trade their high prospects to get it can get Penny, Tomko, and Hendrickson from the Rays.

    I am not trying to say that the trade concept I expressed in 155 is realistic. It reflects how I would like the Dodgers to proceed in obtaining a proven player instead of giving up their own young talent.

    2006-12-08 10:15:30
    160.   Eric Enders
    I've seen the Boras glossy books (well, the A-Rod one anyway) and they're not all that. I was actually rather shocked at how amateurishly done it was. It looks like something a not-very-smart high school kid would print out on his computer. It's neither well designed nor well-written. You'd think if a superagent has 70 employees, at least one of them would have taken college English 101. Full of misspellings, horrendous grammar, and specious arguments and supporting facts that make Plaschke look like a Pulitzer winner.
    2006-12-08 10:17:30
    161.   Andrew Shimmin
    I've decided to move to Snook, Texas, for reasons too obvious to need fleshing out.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfbTO0GlONU

    2006-12-08 10:17:31
    162.   Bumsrap
    158-That is the Malone that is struggling to be a reliever. Maloan throws 97mph with a great breaking ball. He was throwing strikes in AFL. I am sharing Logan White's assessment of Maloan.
    2006-12-08 10:18:46
    163.   Bumsrap
    160--They are designed for GMs to read.
    2006-12-08 10:21:04
    164.   Eric Enders
    163 Sure, but if I was somebody like Theo Epstein it would insult my intelligence and go straight into the trash bin.

    Then again, he does seem to be signing all of Boras' clients, so...

    2006-12-08 10:25:22
    165.   Eric Enders
    162 It appears to me that blue22 full well knows his Meloans from his Malones (particularly since he's the only one who spelled it right). I'm interpreting his statement as saying that a relief prospect, however dominant, isn't necessarily untradeable.
    2006-12-08 10:25:36
    166.   Daniel Zappala
    161 You've ruined my day.
    2006-12-08 10:27:33
    167.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
    164 - The gloss on the pages is actually a thin film of a drug that leaves the reader susceptible to suggestion.
    2006-12-08 10:29:37
    168.   Bumsrap
    164--Are sabermathticians also grammarians?

    Besides, why use good grammar and logic when to goal is to dazzle with bullshit?

    2006-12-08 10:30:30
    169.   Marty
    161 I sent that link yesterday to a friend from Texas. Mmmm....chicken fried bacon. Just needs more salt.
    2006-12-08 10:33:05
    170.   Bob Timmermann
    168
    Dad! He said a bad word!

    A lot of people who work in sabermetrics are good writers. I think the people who put together Boras's handouts are neither. They are likely sports agent wannabes.

    2006-12-08 10:34:06
    171.   blue22
    165 - Thanks Eric. I guess I'm a little bored at work, since I'm not necessarily advocating that trade, just interested to see what Rocco might cost.

    And in the pecking order of "pitchers I wouldn't trade", Meloan falls behind Billingsley, Broxton, Kershaw, Elbert, and Greg Miller. I think you have to consider trading the 6th best pitcher in your organization if it was in the right deal.

    2006-12-08 10:35:59
    172.   Eric Enders
    168 Well, Epstein's grandfather did write one of the great works of American literature...

    http://www.vincasa.com/indexscreenplay.html

    2006-12-08 10:37:20
    173.   Eric Enders
    171 Great, now you've ticked off all the Taiwanese Dodger fans. ;)
    2006-12-08 10:39:39
    174.   Bumsrap
    165--You are probably right and it looks like Boras and I went to the same school of spelling.

    My point is not that Meloan is not tradeable but that he should not be traded whether as a starter or as a reliever.

    He could get some time with the Dodgers in 2007 in middle relief but by 2008, I think he will be seen as a starter.

    2006-12-08 10:42:10
    175.   Andrew Shimmin
    169- Mapquest says it's a 22 1/4 hour drive, from L.A. So, we could be there for breakfast tomorrow. Who's with me?
    2006-12-08 10:44:21
    176.   dzzrtRatt
    135, 145

    This comment from Ned as reported by LAT seems odd:

    Gonzo good for 35 doubles, admits power is gone, good clubhouse guy. Real point of Gonzo was to make Kemp and Ethier compete for playing time;

    I won't belabor the 35 doubles. What is odd is Colleti's motivational theory. "Kemp, I'm spending $7 million on Gonzo so you'll try even harder to take his job. You're welcome." "Andre, if you can show me more than a broken-down player three years past his prime, the job's yours."

    2006-12-08 10:45:11
    177.   blue22
    173 - Oops. In my haste to trade him, I forgot about Kuo. He'd slot right after Elbert in the above list.
    2006-12-08 10:48:12
    178.   dzzrtRatt
    Some great names coming into the major leagues soon, if minorleaguebaseball.com is to be believed. Among their top 50 prospects:

    Elvis Andrus
    Kevin Slowey (a pitcher!)
    Felix Pie
    Homer Bailey

    2006-12-08 10:49:21
    179.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
    176 - I wonder if there's a way to pull off a three-headed platoon of Gonzo, Kemp and Ethier for the OF corners.
    2006-12-08 10:51:03
    180.   Bumsrap
    171--And in the pecking order of "pitchers I wouldn't trade", Meloan falls behind Billingsley, Broxton, Kershaw, Elbert, and Greg Miller. I think you have to consider trading the 6th best pitcher in your organization if it was in the right deal.

    That seems logical but Meloan might wind up being number one on that list. I would like to see what happens this year and maybe adjust in July but go after someone like Wells when he becomes a free agent if it is obvious that the Dodgers need him.

    Sorry about that Malone/Meloan comment.

    2006-12-08 10:52:09
    181.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
    Sorry about that Malone/Meloan comment.
    Remember, when Meloan makes it to The Show, do not call him "The Sheriff."
    2006-12-08 10:52:24
    182.   ToyCannon
    175
    They should make the Simpson movie based out of Snook.
    2006-12-08 10:53:11
    183.   D4P
    160
    I love it.
    2006-12-08 10:54:19
    184.   Daniel Zappala
    179 Will the platoon have 6 legs and 6 arms? Those extra arms might help out -- you could scale the wall more easily while keeping extra hands available. The extra legs could be a liability if they keep getting tangled up.
    2006-12-08 10:55:06
    185.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
    179 - At the plate, I anticipate many HBPs.
    2006-12-08 10:56:45
    186.   Marty
    Nothing like watching people smoke while they dip chicken-fried bacon into country gravy. It gives my heart a tug.
    2006-12-08 11:00:15
    187.   ToyCannon
    180
    Your awful excited about a pitcher who has thrown threw less then 100 innings in his professional career by the age of 22. His 2006 was a big leap forward and he only threw 52 innings. I'd like to see him dominate AA for more then 10 IP before he becomes the next big thing. Until the Dodgers stop babying him and give him some innings we have no idea what we have with him because his work has been limited. If were going to trade anyone of the names I've heard floated he'd be number one on my list.
    2006-12-08 11:00:29
    188.   Andrew Shimmin
    The only offensive thing in that clip was the woman putting ketchup on her steak. What was that about?
    2006-12-08 11:05:43
    189.   D4P
    I'm gonna go ahead and guess that the fine people of Snook, TX are enthusiastic Walmart shoppers.

    And another thing: I fear for Andrew's longevity.

    2006-12-08 11:08:21
    190.   ToyCannon
    145
    I'm with you. If that is all Ned thinks he's getting from Gonzo, and he wanted to pay 7Mill for it then I'm flabbergasted. The career averages of Marlon Anderson suggest he could do that in Dodger Stadium. Heck, D Young could probably do that. Can't wait for us to play the Mets with the wet noodle outfield. Should be a joy.

    I love Neds big moves(Furcal, Nomar(2006), Schmidt) his little moves not so much.

    2006-12-08 11:10:13
    191.   Andrew Shimmin
    189- Really, my only hope is nanotechnology. Every last of my eggs is in that basket. All them scientision types have about twenty, twenty-five years to figure out how to stop death, or my goose is chicken fried.
    2006-12-08 11:11:09
    192.   jujibee
    Anyone here know what is going on with Alex White. Did he do well enough this season for us to make a lucrative signing bonus and pick him up?
    2006-12-08 11:11:20
    193.   D4P
    191
    Oh well, dying young is a big part of "edgy"
    2006-12-08 11:14:48
    194.   Rocc
    137+156. The Rays would want Billz and possibly more for Rocco, from what I've been reading. I'd expect that we'd want Kemp and a pitching prospect, as well as Chad. Basically, it's not gonna happen.

    For Crawford, I fear for what the Rays would ask for. Just because it'd have an extremely eerie Chuck LaMar-feel to it.

    The Rays have no need to trade Rocco, seeing as he's making only 750 K(due to his lofty expectations for himself in 2006 when negotiating his own contract). That, in turn, is making himself more valuable.

    Crawford isn't getting traded, Friedman has repeatedly said that he's "off the table". Nothing beyond a total rip-off would land a team Crawford. So no Penny, Hendrickson, Tomko-for-Crawford trade would work

    2006-12-08 11:17:14
    195.   Eric Enders
    194 "Nothing beyond a total rip-off would land a team Crawford."

    Well, we can rest easy now. What are the chances of Colletti getting ripped off by Tampa Friggin' Bay?

    2006-12-08 11:25:50
    196.   Sam DC
    153 Great Story, by the way. Funny to imagine DT conventions and running jokes bleeding out into the real world.

    I have wondered in the past if any DTer has found him/herself cheering for "Lucille II" at the ballpark. And how the normal people at the game reacted.

    2006-12-08 11:29:53
    197.   blue22
    196 - I wear my "Ghame Over" shirt quite a bit. That'd be something to run into someone who recognizes it.
    2006-12-08 11:31:21
    198.   50 years a Dodger Fan
    145 So, if this is what Ned thinks Gonzo is capable of, why would he sign him?

    See previous post Re Woman with new checkbook. Or as Sir Hillary said,"Because he was there".

    2006-12-08 11:38:41
    199.   sanchez101
    198. Or its because Gonzalez is worth roughly $7 million. Mediocrity is not worthless.
    2006-12-08 11:40:54
    200.   DodgerHobbit
    I'm still wondering why hasn't the guy offered a burger with his chicken fried bacon (and gravy) as a topping?
    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2006-12-08 11:41:46
    201.   Sushirabbit
    153, 196 and 197.

    One nice thing about working with other geeks is that they pretty much get references that range from kierkegaard, to the simpsons, to what's the best throttle body for a 67 Chevelle.

    I wear my Ghame Over, but even my wife thinks my Team Depo shirt has something to to do with Home Depo... "did you work on some project with Home Depot?"

    2006-12-08 11:45:04
    202.   GoBears
    Pay attention to 198, D4P. That's some old-school sexism there.
    2006-12-08 11:49:11
    203.   D4P
    202
    I guess I still have much to learn.
    2006-12-08 11:49:24
    204.   Andrew Shimmin
    New school sexism would involve a woman with a brand new AmEx Blue card.
    2006-12-08 11:53:17
    205.   Marty
    Ketchup on a steak is an abomination. Actually any steak sauce on a steak is wrong in my book.
    2006-12-08 11:55:38
    206.   D4P
    I bet John Kerry feels compelled to eat ketchup on his steaks.
    2006-12-08 11:58:08
    207.   Marty
    If you don't eat your ketchup, you'll end up in Iraq.
    2006-12-08 11:58:10
    208.   D4P
    BTW: I hope oswald returns. It would be a bummer if she left permanently.
    2006-12-08 11:58:26
    209.   Sam DC
    Next we'll be finding out that Icaros is really Jerry Brown.

    http://tinyurl.com/ylqjun

    2006-12-08 12:00:14
    210.   Marty
    I think Icaros is really Dianne Feinstein
    2006-12-08 12:04:11
    211.   LAT
    209.

    All I can say is I hope Ranger65 doesn't neglect his job blogging as much as I neglect mine.

    2006-12-08 12:04:58
    212.   Andrew Shimmin
    208- She's left at least one comment since. She must know that, if it ever came down to a you or her, situation, the vote would be unanimous (though we'd all wish you well in your new life as a Braves fan, D4P).
    2006-12-08 12:05:05
    213.   LAT
    All I can say is I hope Ranger65 doesn't neglect his job becasue of blogging as much as I neglect mine.

    Duh

    2006-12-08 12:07:25
    214.   D4P
    212
    "Always side with the hoochie"

    Dr. Percival Cox

    2006-12-08 12:42:02
    215.   Vishal
    this thread is gold.

    and btw, andrew, if you actually did move to snook, tx, you'd probably do plenty of "fleshing out" of your own.

    2006-12-08 12:42:54
    216.   Vishal
    ...and by fleshing out i mean getting really fat.
    2006-12-08 12:44:14
    217.   Vishal
    i mean, chicken fried bacon, good lord. not that i wouldn't want to try some, but people have two plates of it as their breakfast!?!
    2006-12-08 12:59:21
    218.   D4P
    Southern "cuisine" is remarkable. Barbecue restaurants around here list things like mac n' cheese and french fries under "vegetables."
    2006-12-08 13:02:58
    219.   blue22
    I like having the baseball package through Directv, and seeing the local commercials from the Midwest and the South. One of my favorites is a restaurant that features a chili-spaghetti dish, which is a plate of noodles, about 4 ladels of chili, and a pound of grated cheese. Yummy.
    2006-12-08 13:05:37
    220.   Marty
    219 That sounds like Cincy.
    2006-12-08 13:07:15
    221.   Bob Timmermann
    220
    Cincinnati's chili is a very unusual looking dish. One I was not brave enough to try.
    2006-12-08 13:07:52
    222.   blue22
    220 - I think you're right.
    2006-12-08 13:08:51
    223.   Andrew Shimmin
    I don't eat breakfast, but, for chicken fried bacon, I'd be willing to change. With a toothpick in my hand I'd dig a ten foot ditch/and run all through the jungle fighting lions with a switch, for chicken fried bacon.

    I couldn't really understand what the proprietor was saying about two pound steaks, but I took it he was bragging about how inexpensive his were. Which, well, bonus!

    2006-12-08 13:10:04
    224.   Marty
    That's what he was doing.

    "We don't deal in ounces, we deal in pounds"

    2006-12-08 13:11:59
    225.   blue22
    Good Baldelli article from Rich Lederer:

    http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/12/attention_teams.php

    2006-12-08 13:12:03
    226.   Sam DC
    Vishal, I'd like some man (or woman, of course) on the street what the average chinese person thinks of the idea of chicken fried bacon.
    2006-12-08 13:13:45
    227.   D4P
    I don't eat breakfast

    Why am I not surprised. Andrew, Andrew, Andrew...

    2006-12-08 13:15:15
    228.   Andrew Shimmin
    226- You think the Chinese government would be pleased about that sort of thing getting out? There would be a million Chinese people on boats before sunrise tomorrow setting out for the land of gold paved streets, and chicken fried bacon! And Vishal would end up in a very unpleasant cell somewhere.
    2006-12-08 13:18:34
    229.   Bob Timmermann
    Better not let Brock near the author of this piece:

    http://tinyurl.com/y8aopk

    It's a prototypical Slate article.

    2006-12-08 13:18:55
    230.   Marty
    But China wouldn't even notice a paltry million suddenly gone people. 100 million, now that's different
    2006-12-08 13:20:51
    231.   Daniel Zappala
    Yankees signed Pettite to a one-year deal. One more year to hope they finish out of the playoffs altogether.
    2006-12-08 13:27:42
    232.   gibsonhobbs88
    Comments to Jon's post:

    I hope Ned does what he says now and won't rush into any haphhazard deals. For the first time in a long time, we actually have lots of leverage where teams should be coming to us. We are holding 4 kings in our hand and can afford to be choosy. Also, maybe we need to go into Spring training and see how all the pieces fit and hopefully Penny comes out strong and increases his value as it took a big hit at the end of last year. Yes, we don't have a wealth of power, but we do have some speed, and high average guys that are gap hitters and we can manufacture enough runs to support the starters. Schmidt and Lowe can go deep into games when they are on. If the rest of the staff can give us 6 and sometimes 7, we should be okay with or without Gagne. I do hope Brazoban has come up with an off-speed pitch though. Our team will not be as strong defensively, especially the "Venus de Milo" arms in left and center and Kent's lack of range at his age concerns me somewhat. I say let's sit back and enjoy the holidays for now and get back to fretting over our team in January.
    Happy Holidays to everybody at DT!! You all have made this an interesting year.

    2006-12-08 13:34:19
    233.   Moon Shot
    229 That Slate article on Wooden has some truth, some speculation and a lot of opinion based on the writer's own perceptions...much like many of the posts on here.
    2006-12-08 13:41:48
    234.   Bob Timmermann
    233
    I always thought a typical Slate article would be something like:

    "Why the USA should have lost World War II"

    or

    "Why deadly plagues are good for people"

    2006-12-08 13:54:54
    235.   blue22
    I highly recommend people venture over to LookoutLanding (via 6-4-2 if you want to follow the path I took) and look at their version of the Winter Meetings (from a Mariner slant, of course). Good graces, it's funny.

    Warning: very coarse language, especially by our own Neddy.

    2006-12-08 13:59:54
    236.   JoeyP
    http://mediatakeout.com/Exclusives/NJNet_Gay.html

    Richard Jefferson?

    Hmmmm.......

    2006-12-08 14:00:28
    237.   xaphor
    The Yankee rotation: Three Old Men and a Wang
    2006-12-08 14:02:01
    238.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
    Remember the Dodgers outfielder Matt Luke?
    He sells real estate now.
    http://www.mattluke.com/
    2006-12-08 14:02:43
    239.   blue22
    236 - The Deadspin crew thinks its Vince Carter.
    2006-12-08 14:03:19
    240.   Marty
    236 Somebody's gay is a scandal?
    2006-12-08 14:06:48
    241.   Jon Weisman
    229 - Slate's take on John Wooden is akin to someone trashing Vin because he is obsessed with pointing out children in the stands and mispronounces names from time to time.

    Instead of pointing out that the man has flaws, it has to become a polemic against him. I get that the writer thinks Wooden is overvalued, but he's gone too far in the other direction. It is not evil or hypocritical for a coach to dictate how you put on your socks, etc.

    2006-12-08 14:06:51
    242.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
    240 - In the NBA, yes.
    In the real world, no.
    2006-12-08 14:08:21
    243.   Andrew Shimmin
    "One of the biggest scandals in league history," to be exact. I know I'm scandalized. And hungry. A little sleepy. But mostly, scandalized.
    2006-12-08 14:10:05
    244.   Marty
    But does Vince Carter like chicken-fried bacon?
    2006-12-08 14:10:39
    245.   Andrew Shimmin
    241- Actually, the big scandal is that he insisted players wear socks of 50% wool, when that's in clear violation of Deuteronomy 22:11. I guess somebody isn't going to heaven.
    2006-12-08 14:12:30
    246.   Jon Weisman
    Perhaps I'm biased, having twice won my team's Pyramid of Success Award at John Wooden Basketball Camp (1977 and 1978), otherwise known as the award that goes to the really nice bad player.
    2006-12-08 14:16:40
    247.   Bob Timmermann
    You know success is peace of mind that comes from ...
    2006-12-08 14:17:05
    248.   JoeyP
    I dont really have any reverance for John Wooden, mainly bc of the Sam Gilbert connection.

    You'd think a guy that preached the pyramid of success, would have enough integrity to run a clean program....

    Is the "its ok to cheat as long as you dont get caught and no one gets hurt" really a virtue worth teaching?

    2006-12-08 14:21:15
    249.   Bob Timmermann
    248
    The thing with the story is that the writer only mentions Sam Gilbert in passing and doesn't really focus on that aspect of his career, which is the flaw.

    Instead, he goes in to a really long discussion of how Wooden doesn't understand how basketball should be played now.

    2006-12-08 14:22:24
    250.   das411
    Ok. Weekend. Finally.

    123 - Hey Rocc! When do we tell the DTers about who the Rays brought in to try and win 1B this year?

    160 - Are you sure this wasn't one designed for [insert "Pat Gillick" or "Steve Phillips" here]?

    208 - And whatever happened to Christina (sp)?

    247 - Getting one past the Barbaro Blog censors?

    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2006-12-08 14:24:03
    251.   sanchez101
    So some writer for Slate was sitting around, fighting writers bloc, and suddenly jumped up and exclaimed, "I've got it! I'll write a hackjob on John Wooden and blame him for everything I dislike about old-school basketball types. Wow, how come no one thought to express this view before?"

    Gotta love the internet

    2006-12-08 14:26:18
    252.   Jon Weisman
    249 - Exactly. There is a conundrum with Wooden that 248 points out, one that I can't recall ever being truly reconciled. It's the chink in Wooden's armor.

    But just because the flaw is there doesn't mean that one can't, for lack of a better word, love the man.

    In public or to himself, Wooden would never call himself perfect, or regard himself with the reverance others do. Same with Vin. But none of us are perfect. If you need to be perfect to be revered, we're all in trouble.

    2006-12-08 14:29:34
    253.   DodgerBakers
    235.
    Wow, do the Royals really want to unload Angel Berroa? I like him a lot, definitely more than Betemit.
    2006-12-08 14:30:40
    254.   Jon Weisman
    250 - I don't think that's it. I'm confident the writer has long been tired of the cliche of John Wooden, much the way any of us might be tired of some of the hoarier cliches of baseball (or whatever), and with the latest series of honors (the new induction ceremony) decided it was finally time to vent.

    I don't think the writer was anything but sincere. I just think he was sincerely off-target.

    2006-12-08 14:30:59
    255.   Jon Weisman
    254 - was in response to 251.
    2006-12-08 14:31:55
    256.   sanchez101
    Thanks Jon. I always cringe when people point out a flaw in a good person, as if it discredits everything they've ever done. Turns out people have flaws and no one's perfect, call the presses!
    2006-12-08 14:37:42
    257.   sanchez101
    254. Oh, I'm not questioning his sincerity, I'm questioning the reasoning of someone who's bothered as much as he is by John Wooden. Of all the things to complain about he picked John Wooden. Is his point that he's annoyed by the attnetion Wooden gets? If it is, I think he needs to get a life.
    2006-12-08 14:45:16
    258.   Bob Timmermann
    257
    It's very Slate-like. It's goal is to be contrarian.
    2006-12-08 14:47:56
    259.   Benaiah
    253 - Really? His career high OPS+ 96, and his average is 78. Betemit meanwhile has 104 as his high and 96 as his average. He even posted a 116 for the Braves last year. Berroa is an inferior hitter for sure.
    2006-12-08 14:58:36
    260.   ToyCannon
    Berroa may someday replace Neifi Perez as the worse player in baseball to be given an everyday job. He should become a Cub anyday now.
    2006-12-08 15:01:32
    261.   njr
    Great day on Dodgerthoughts. You guys helped me get through a under-the-weather, long friday. Thanks.

    Also-- Ned, if you're out there, sit on your hands.

    2006-12-08 15:02:00
    262.   DodgerBakers
    259. Oh. Well, I'm glad we have Betemit then. Most of my opinions are fueled by watching the player. I always liked watching Berroa (I'm a Royals fan by marriage) and Betemit seemed more like a flash in the pan. However, apparently that simply isn't true.
    2006-12-08 15:07:09
    263.   DodgerBakers
    262. I should qualify that. I am ALSO a Royals fan. Mostly Dodgers, though
    2006-12-08 15:07:57
    264.   ToyCannon
    262
    Once upon a time Berroa held some promise. To bad his 2003 was a career peak and it has been downhill very fast since then. He can't even hang his hat on his defensive prowness as Dewan has him rated going into 2006 as the 2nd worse defensive SS in baseball.

    Looking forward to watching Gordon/Butler mash for KC. You may not win much in the next several years but your team should be fun to watch.

    2006-12-08 15:08:59
    265.   Andrew Shimmin
    Alex Gordon is the chicken fried bacon of prospects.
    2006-12-08 15:13:21
    266.   bhsportsguy
    When I lived in Encino, there is a Winchells on Ventura that I sometimes got donuts for the office. I noticed they had picture of Coach Wooden hanging in the store, I asked about it and they said Coach Wooden stopped by often. Needless to say, I was walking out of the store and in comes Coach Wooden. I regret not offering to buy the man is daily donut.

    Luis Gonzalez is now the face of the Dodgers based on the media reaction to his signing.

    2006-12-08 15:18:13
    267.   Bob Timmermann
    266
    Apparently, all those doughnuts have shortened Wooden's lifespan.

    Time to change mine.

    2006-12-08 15:19:12
    268.   Bob Timmermann
    267
    I left out at least three words in that post.

    Insert ones you think would make sense or just play Madlibs.

    2006-12-08 15:20:30
    269.   gpellamjr
    265 You're the Chicken McNuggets of DT posters--- the ones before they made them all white meat.
    2006-12-08 15:21:35
    270.   overkill94
    262 You really like a guy who OPSed .592 last year? I think his main value lies in his SS defense and obviously that's not something we'd be interested in. Didn't Berroa get sent down to the minors last year?
    2006-12-08 15:23:44
    271.   DodgerBakers
    270. The summer I got married, 2003, we went to a lot of Royals games, hence, in my mind, Berroa was a good player. Now that I see his stats since I have officially changed my mind.
    2006-12-08 15:25:45
    272.   ToyCannon
    271
    Do you still live in KC?
    2006-12-08 15:27:16
    273.   Bob Timmermann
    Berroa was a Rookie of the Year.

    But so was Todd Hollandsworth.

    2006-12-08 15:27:26
    274.   hotblackdesiato
    In the three years since his magical and obviously flukish rookie year, Angel Berroa has not on-based .310, EQA'ed .250, or had an average or better rate2. Last year he reached base less than 26% of the time, had a .209 EQA, cost his team 15 runs above replacement and 30 above average with the bat, and 9 more above average with his glove (or lack thereof). On top of it all, he'll be 29 on opening day and made $2 million last year. Where exactly is the attraction there?
    2006-12-08 15:27:54
    275.   DodgerBakers
    272. I wish, but no, were in AZ now.
    2006-12-08 15:27:54
    276.   DodgerBakers
    272. I wish, but no, were in AZ now.
    2006-12-08 15:30:57
    277.   Andrew Shimmin
    269- That is, no joke, the nicest thing any one has ever said to me, Pellam. I'm blushing like a mail-order child bride. By way of reciprocation, I consider you my honey dipping sauce.

    Gordon is too fast, right now, for the nickname Gordo, but, is there maybe a AAA franchise near Snook?

    2006-12-08 15:31:11
    278.   Bob Timmermann
    274
    Give the man a break. He's retracted his desire to pick up Berroa. It was based on incomplete info.

    If only Ned Colletti, bothered to do such things.

    2006-12-08 15:31:52
    279.   overkill94
    The lesson - as always - is that among this crowd you better not throw out an opinion unless you do your homework first. Otherwise, watch out for all those stats flying by your head :)
    2006-12-08 15:42:00
    280.   hotblackdesiato
    278 - Sorry, he retracted while I was using Paul Depodesta's computer to come up with that statistical diatribe.
    2006-12-08 15:44:38
    281.   Andrew Shimmin
    Pinto has the Probabilistic Model of Range ratings for CFs up. Pierre comes in at 21st of 43.

    http://www.baseballmusings.com/archives/018645.php

    It's a little suspect, though, since his RF ratings have Juan Encarnacion (the greatest player of all time) behind four guys who aren't fit to wash his car.

    2006-12-08 15:49:38
    282.   robohobo
    My dad works for a guy that was an all american playing for John Wooden early in his career. I got to meet Wooden once when I was 13 or 14. It was a game against CS Fullerton at Pauley Pavilion. I shook his hand and he signed my ticket stub.
    2006-12-08 15:52:40
    283.   robohobo
    My high school basketball coach told me a story about how when he was in college, a friend of his used to help out at UCLA practices as a water boy 'cause he knew one of the players. Decades later my coach's friend had a chance to meet Coach Wooden again and Coach Wooden remembered his name and who he was. Pretty impressive.
    2006-12-08 15:53:32
    284.   robohobo
    265. ...since we are sharing Wooden stories.
    2006-12-08 15:58:37
    285.   s choir
    281 At least it shows how bad Kenny was.
    2006-12-08 16:05:26
    286.   Greg Brock
    Just read the Slate article, and all I can say is that it is a typical Slate article. Contrarian for the sake of being contrary, marginal writing masquerading as depth, and smug self satisfaction. Unless I click on a Hitchens article, I never read Slate (which I've mentioned before).

    The attack on Wooden wasn't an attack on Wooden, it was an attack on Conservatism (which, you know, whatever...I'm not for or against "conservatism", but that's what the article was). It was veiled, but it was an attack on "rigidity, bureaucracy, paternalism, and anal retentiveness."

    As far as the Sam Gilbert stuff, it's been thrown around forever, vaguely, without much speficity. It's a nice little shot at an otherwise amazing human being.

    Color me unimpressed.

    2006-12-08 16:08:57
    287.   Jon Weisman
    I like Slate, even though I didn't like that article.
    2006-12-08 16:14:12
    288.   Greg Brock
    Special thanks to Bob Timmermann for teeing that one up for me.
    2006-12-08 16:14:32
    289.   jasonungar05
    Not to change subjects, but has there been any thought to adding Trot Nixon? I really like him and I think he plays a real nice RF

    .288avg .336obp .492slug .828ops
    .278avg .366obp .478slug .845ops

    Career numbers for Trot Nixon and Vernon Wells. Trot on bottom. I'll take Trot.

    2006-12-08 16:18:56
    290.   Andrew Shimmin
    I read Hitch, Kaus, and The Explainer. And, when I'm there for that, there's usually something on the sidebar compelling enough (typically in an embarrassing way) to click through for, if not read all the way through. For example, but for Slate, I'd never have guessed that Indian men were, um, well, I'll let Saletan make the accusation: http://www.slate.com/id/2154841/
    2006-12-08 16:23:24
    291.   hotblackdesiato
    289 - You'd think so, considering he's fit the sole criteria to be a Dodger these days, which is either being a former Red Sock or Giant. I'd have rather they took a cheap and incentive-laden flyer on Nixon than sign Gonzo. Either one is a risk but at least Nixon might have some good years ahead of him. I'd be concerned about actually expecting Nixon to be a solution, though, given his injury history and his horrible career line against lefties (.213/.309/.325).
    2006-12-08 16:27:58
    292.   Icaros
    I never thought I'd be accused of being Jerry Brown or Diane Feinstein, especially by one person who has actually met me in the flesh.

    Got the location right, but I think I'd rather be Nancy Pelosi. I see a huge billboard congratulating her every day on the way to work.

    2006-12-08 16:29:46
    293.   Bob Timmermann
    I should be The Explainer. But no. What are Daniel Engber's "credentials"?
    2006-12-08 16:30:34
    294.   Greg Brock
    I've been accused of being James Traficant, but that is only because of my outstanding hair and penchant for accepting large, unmarked bills.
    2006-12-08 16:34:38
    295.   bhsportsguy
    293 294
    Its been a week, still hard to believe that UCLA won that game.
    2006-12-08 16:36:16
    296.   Greg Brock
    295 There is no emoticon for how I am feeling.
    2006-12-08 16:38:06
    297.   Andrew Shimmin
    293- No doubt about it. But if they really wanted to maximize the marginal improvement with just one staff change, they should find a new Dear Prudence. Sure, there's only one Judith Martin, but it shouldn't be so hard to find a decent knockoff.
    2006-12-08 16:39:22
    298.   bhsportsguy
    296 I guess you spoke to a few Trojans this week.
    2006-12-08 16:40:38
    299.   Greg Brock
    You could start a Q&A segment over at The Griddle. People could ask obscure baseball rules, cooking tips, relationship advice, and thoughts on the double error.

    "Ask Bob"

    2006-12-08 16:42:16
    300.   Jon Weisman
    New post up top. Mostly fluff, but it resets the clock.
    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2006-12-08 16:46:24
    301.   jasonungar05
    I guess the fact that Trot is another lefty bat makes me think it wont happen. I think it would have been better to lock him up in RF and then at least have a better defensive OF rahter then making Either switch to RF. It would have given us some more flexability. My concern as of today is we dont have a very good defense, or at least so it seems.
    2006-12-08 16:53:17
    302.   Marty
    292 But, if I admitted I had met you, the joke is no good.
    2006-12-08 18:46:17
    303.   ToyCannon
    Count me in for one who wanted them to sign Trot instead of Gonzo. Trot's current woes were directly related to injury and he has decent upside if healthy. Plus he was a heck of a RF, slides included.
    2006-12-09 12:39:07
    304.   Andrew Shimmin
    For posterity's sake, I read Tim Harford, too. I hope he'll stop cribbing articles out of his book soon.

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