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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Names in the News
2007-04-06 22:08
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

  • Brad Penny: Kept the ball all around the plate, and the Giants made contact but couldn't do anything with it. Better offensive teams might not let him get away with what the Giants did, but you can't say he didn't do his job. A good first start of the season.

  • Russell Martin: Awesome defensively. Threw out two baserunners, blocked the plate on a throw home, and threw out Dave Roberts on a tough bunt.

  • Luis Gonzalez: Had two hits and made one good defensive play, throwing on target to Ramon Martinez. But dropped a Barry Bonds flyball in most distressing fashion. Honestly, we may have a Timmy Lupus, doubt-on-every-flyball situation here. Announcers keep trotting out that "I'm 39 - what you see is what you get" quote of Gonzalez's as if it's a good thing.

  • Ramon Martinez: Seemed to be all over the place tonight, making plays, including the key relay from Gonzalez to Martin. Biggest game he has had since his 16th-inning home run last August. Penny was the obvious choice for player of the game, but it's not shocking that Fox gave the honors to Martinez.

  • Juan Pierre: Hit into a double play and somehow wasn't able to catch an eighth-inning fly ball that was about a 6 in degree of difficulty. He certainly was running hard, but the ball seemed to be in the air forever. By the by, the speedy Dodgers don't have a triple or a stolen-base attempt yet this season.

  • Matt Kemp: Scored the scratchiest Dodger run of the season on an infield hit, error, wild pitch and fielder's choice.

  • Joe Beimel: Unflustered by Gonzalez's mistake and the ensuing intentional walk to Ray Durham that put the go-ahead run on base, struck out Ryan Klesko with seeming ease.

  • Nomar Garciaparra and Jeff Kent: Didn't hit for distance, but their double-single combo was enough to make a difference.

  • Takashi Saito: Two more hits allowed, but a called strike three on Dave Roberts shows he can still fool 'em.

    The pitching staff allowed 12 hits but still won throwing only 118 pitches.

    The Dodgers have lost more easily than they have won, so it's not an overwhelming 2-2, but it's 2-2 nonetheless.

    Update: James Loney went 0 for 5 for AAA Las Vegas on Friday and is hitless in eight at-bats since his first-pitch homer Thursday. Andy LaRoche and Tony Abreu were each 2 for 6 (LaRoche had an error). Delwyn Young was 3 for 5 with two doubles. Starting pitcher D.J. Houlton allowed two unearned runs and six baserunners in 4 2/3 innings while striking out five.

    For AA Jacksonville, William Juarez (seven innings) and Jonathan Meloan (two innings, fiveyesfive strikeouts) combined for a shutout.

  • Comments (150)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2007-04-06 22:15:51
    1.   Suffering Bruin
    Well, look at you with the nimble fingers on the keyboard... that was fast!
    2007-04-06 22:16:14
    2.   MSarg29
    That was fast
    2007-04-06 22:16:35
    3.   Andrew Shimmin
    It's bad, bad news when Jon drops the Timmy Lupus bomb on you.

    Bad news.

    2007-04-06 22:18:41
    4.   Suffering Bruin
    3 :)

    Timmy Lupus' father is one of the best high school drama teachers in the city, if not the state.

    2007-04-06 22:19:51
    5.   Benaiah
    Besides outfield defense the big thing that stands out is how bad the hitting has been so far. The team as a whole has a line of: .197/.272/.307. It is early in the year, but so far the hitting has been B-A-D. It is nice to see that there has been a lot of walks though (13 in 143 PAs, or about 10%).
    2007-04-06 22:20:16
    6.   Jon Weisman
    4 - Now how have you not shared that with us before?

    Did you study with him?

    2007-04-06 22:21:25
    7.   Bumsrap
    As good as the Gonzo to Martinez to Martin relay was, the relay of Gonzo to Martinez to Kent was too late to stop a single from being a double.
    2007-04-06 22:22:42
    8.   Bumsrap
    Did Timmy Lupus' father direct the last out of this game?
    2007-04-06 22:22:50
    9.   LADfan in IL
    I know it's late here in IL. but was Martinez really out on that play in the 9th? He looked safe to me.
    2007-04-06 22:23:33
    10.   Suffering Bruin
    6 I did some volunteer teaching at Uni. The drama teacher's daughter by his current marriage works my wife and that's how I made the connection. He's a big part of the reason why I'm teaching which is why I plan TP'ing his house as soon as humanly possible.
    2007-04-06 22:24:25
    11.   Suffering Bruin
    10 Should say "works with my wife."
    2007-04-06 22:25:07
    12.   Jon Weisman
    1/2 - The pros start before the game is over.

    The bloggers start before the game is over and hope they're not jinxing it.

    2007-04-06 22:25:23
    13.   dzzrtRatt
    So far, Gonzo is p-ing me off much more than Pierre.

    If 39 means "I can't run fast," I get it.

    If 39 means "I can't throw very far," I get it.

    But if 39 means "I can't catch the ball," he should retire. Or switch to the American League. Or accept a role on the bench shaking Matt Kemp's hand after another home run.

    2007-04-06 22:26:58
    14.   Jon Weisman
    13 - DR, is there something wrong with your site. It is not loading well on my browser. Or is it just my browser?
    2007-04-06 22:29:00
    15.   Ken Arneson
    12 That's a classic line. Gotta remember that one.
    2007-04-06 22:30:54
    16.   D4P
    I'm 39 - what you see is what you get

    In other words, "Don't blame me for accepting a $7 million contract at the age of 39, when I'm clearly way past my prime: blame the moron GM that gave me the contract in the first place."

    2007-04-06 22:31:52
    17.   MSarg29
    16 - Sounds reasonable to me
    2007-04-06 22:33:07
    18.   Bumsrap
    I think Kemp is now hitting .333 ave.

    Gonzo looks like he can consistently make good contact but with the approach he is taking with his swing there is little chance for a home run.

    2007-04-06 22:34:03
    19.   Bumsrap
    They who knew Gonzo best didn't offer a contract at all.
    2007-04-06 22:35:32
    20.   natepurcell
    19

    the reason AZ didnt offer him a contract was because they had a bunch of high ceiling prospects ready for the majors that should not be blocked.

    the dodgers on the other hand.....

    /sigh.

    2007-04-06 22:36:18
    21.   Bumsrap
    12
    So, which were you tonight?
    2007-04-06 22:36:54
    22.   Eric Enders
    I think it's only fair to note that the "good" defensive play Gonzalez made was only good in the context of the standard he has set so far this season. It was an accurate, but completely lollipopped throw. The play was made to the best of Gonzalez's ability, but IMO at least half the other left fielders in the league would have made it better.

    It's also fair to note that Gonzalez bobbled the ball not one, not two, but three times in left field tonight. I mean, c'mon. Enough already.

    FWIW, Russ Martin is my player of the game.

    Also, I think Kemp should be getting a little more credit for his inventive dodge of a tag at home plate, on a run that ended up being the difference in the game. The Dodgers were lucky to score that run, you bet, but without that little move the luck wouldn't have mattered anyway.

    I thought Roberts was safe on the force out at second. But I can't do a slo-mo replay on this MLB.tv thing. What did you guys think?

    2007-04-06 22:38:51
    23.   Eric Enders
    12 Not only do the pros start before the game is over, they often finish before the game is over too. I've even seen someone have a game story finished in the fifth inning, leaving only blank spaces for the appropriate names to be inserted later.
    2007-04-06 22:39:34
    24.   Bumsrap
    I think Kemp is feeling real lucky that he danced his blunder away.
    2007-04-06 22:40:04
    25.   dzzrtRatt
    14 I got the site to load up okay on both IE and Firefox.

    I hope you won't be disappointed: I haven't updated it in a few days. Busy. Plus, you know, the season's started, so I'm hanging out here more.

    2007-04-06 22:41:17
    26.   Just Blue
    18 - "He isn't 21", but you're right.

    22 - I agree, Martin shut down their running game & made the key block of home plate.

    2007-04-06 22:41:55
    27.   Bob Timmermann
    I thought Roberts was out on the force play. Roberts seemed disappointed, but he didn't argue all that much.
    2007-04-06 22:43:03
    28.   Bumsrap
    23
    Dewey Defeats Truman!
    2007-04-06 22:44:20
    29.   Jon Weisman
    22 - good points
    2007-04-06 22:44:26
    30.   Bluebleeder87
    Timmy Lupus must be really bad, who is he?
    2007-04-06 22:45:37
    31.   thinkingblue
    We're going to have lots of these games by the way. For better or worse, sigh...
    2007-04-06 22:45:55
    32.   Andrew Shimmin
    30- A booger eating moron.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074174/maindetails

    2007-04-06 22:46:42
    33.   Bumsrap
    31
    For as long as Pierre and Gonzo are starting instead of being insurance policies for the kids.
    2007-04-06 22:46:53
    34.   dzzrtRatt
    In general, I thought this was a night the Dodgers got every close umpire's call. If Grady knows his job, he'll tell the team they didn't play well enough to win, so be thankful, and lock it down.
    2007-04-06 22:52:06
    35.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
    22 Yup. Russ Martin is why I came here tonight after watching the game (TiVo, wife in bed)....

    Just awesome. While I didn't think Feliz made a good slide at all, the quickness Martin displayed to get his leg in the way was still impressive, and it was a bang-bang play.

    2007-04-06 22:52:28
    36.   k0b3
    ok i just watched the whole game and i can't take Gonzalez anymore. Everytime the ball is out there it is an error or a double waiting to happen. This is the fourth straight game that a runner got a double out of a single and it'll end up costing a couple games in the long run...Grittle needs to swallow his pride and bench this guy..i'm sure he won't mind because he's such a great character person
    Ethier in left, Kempt in right PLEASE
    2007-04-06 22:53:09
    37.   Eric Enders
    34 If by "it" you mean Gonzalez, then I agree.
    2007-04-06 22:53:20
    38.   shamrok
    34 - The roving strikezone was pretty disconcerting though.
    2007-04-06 22:58:39
    39.   Eric Enders
    If you guys thought we hated the Giants sideline reporter, you should see what the Giants fans think of her. The game thread over on McCovey Chronicles has 500-odd posts, of which probably 200 are skewering her. Some comedy gold over there.
    2007-04-06 23:00:24
    40.   k0b3
    39 - we should skewer Gonzalez out of the lineup
    2007-04-06 23:00:34
    41.   k0b3
    39 - we should skewer Gonzalez out of the lineup
    2007-04-06 23:27:04
    42.   natepurcell
    If the giants starting lfer gets tomorrow off, its only fair that the dodgers give their starting LFer a day off :)
    2007-04-06 23:40:03
    43.   das411
    wow, kind of spooky that there are exactly 42 comments here when I found this to post, one of the DraysBay'ers's take on why Carl Crawford is their ideal player to wear #42 for Jackie Robinson Day:

    http://www.draysbay.com/story/2007/4/6/1528/55792

    2007-04-06 23:45:43
    44.   Vaudeville Villain
    Even Tony Jackson is grudgingly agreeing that this Gonzalez thing is not working out.

    I wonder how long it'll take for Colleti/Little.

    2007-04-06 23:47:40
    45.   PDH5204
    Jon, have to disagree with you re the obvious choice, as those hits allowed didn't hurt owing to our co-players of the game, Ramon Martinez and Russell Martin. Call them exhibits 502a and 502b in the Museum of Pitching And Defense Win Games [and so the scratchiest run and the one double-single combo are enough for victory]. I don't otherwise think that Brad would mind.
    2007-04-06 23:51:04
    46.   Andrew Shimmin
    Benaiah- I think this should solve your MLB.tv/Firefox/Vista problem. Or you could use the other solution they link to, though that one's a bit dangerous if you don't follow the instructions closely.

    http://tinyurl.com/2lyk44

    2007-04-06 23:51:16
    47.   PDH5204
    Re the outfield, I'm waiting for, from left to right, Ethier, Clark, and Kemp.
    2007-04-07 00:01:28
    48.   JoeyP
    What was Omar Vizquel doing trying to steal 2nd base with Bonds up?

    Karma wise---once he did a brain dead thing like that, you knew it was the Dodgers nite.

    Its also interesting that the team isnt platooning Betemit against LHP. They are giving him a chance this year to be an everyday player How long will it last? He's hitting .090 so far overall.

    The Dodgers are two season ending injuries of Pierre/Gonzo away from having a good chance at winning the NL West.

    With them in the lineup tho, it really looks like the 2003 offense that won 85 games. Fitting that Dave Roberts made the last out tonite.

    2007-04-07 00:03:16
    49.   natepurcell
    Its also interesting that the team isnt platooning Betemit against LHP. They are giving him a chance this year to be an everyday player How long will it last? He's hitting .090 so far overall.

    Considering he is 25, isnt it a good thing the dodgers are giving him a chance to play every day?

    2007-04-07 00:10:36
    50.   PDH5204
    49 See 19. He'd been with the Braves forever and he wasn't the heir apparent to either Chipper or M. Giles.
    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2007-04-07 00:12:49
    51.   PDH5204
    49 Excuse me, see 19 and 20 and then consider that he wasn't the heir apparent.
    2007-04-07 00:13:29
    52.   JoeyP
    I'd rather see LaRoche everyday.
    Or Saenz at 1st, Nomar at 3b against LHP.

    Speaking of Saenz...I thought Felipe Alou must have still been asleep on the Giants bench tonite. Leaving the lefty in to face Saenz, with the bases juiced?

    Between that and the Vizquel steal attempt--one of the more poorly managed games I've ever seen out of Bochy.

    Dodgers deserved to win this game for sure. Tomorrow should be a win also against Ortiz as long as they dont hack.

    2007-04-07 00:26:04
    53.   underdog
    Not wanting to kick a dead horse - or a dead left fielder - but seeing T Jackson's blog entry about it, finally agreeing with the rest of us... We have to assume Gonzo won't start one of the next two games, right? Sunday vs. the lefty Zito would seem the most logical, but maybe tomorrow with the day game following the night game (as someone pointed out above, like what the Giants do with Bonds). It's gotta be Clark or Ethier in for him, or one of those and Kemp... Right? Right? Bueller? something-d-o-o economics?

    If they start him both of the next two games, then I will officially declare that they've blown a gasket in their brains. But I'm confident that won't be the case.

    2007-04-07 00:27:22
    54.   Andrew Shimmin
    By this logic it's always a mistake to sign a free agent, or acquire any player through trade. Doesn't seem like that can be true, does it?
    2007-04-07 00:32:32
    55.   StolenMonkey86
    50, 51 - Yes, but you're talking about an organization that will end up losing Andruw Jones because instead of keeping Betemit at short they took on Edgar Renteria's $10 million a year and traded off Andy Marte, useful insurance for the increasingly fragile Chipper Jones at the very least.

    And they took on Mike Hampton's contract too.

    2007-04-07 00:40:34
    56.   JoeyP
    Re the outfield, I'm waiting for, from left to right, Ethier, Clark, and Kemp.

    Agree.
    Too bad they cant use the 15 mils spent on Pierre/Gonzo this year, and get just 1 useful player out of those funds.

    Ethier/Loney must be upset that they are getting benched bc of mediocre vets. Ethier really hasnt played regularly since last August. Maybe Ned's given up on him?

    2007-04-07 00:48:47
    57.   caseybarker
    22, 27

    After seeing the replay, I think Roberts was out by a hair. But he may have been called safe four or five times out of ten.

    2007-04-07 01:53:57
    58.   Louis in SF
    Does anyone think that Collettie would let Little pull Gonzales at this point in the season? I doubt it. I wonder at what point Ned will allow him to do soemthing.
    2007-04-07 01:58:09
    59.   Louis in SF
    Does anyone think that Collettie would let Little pull Gonzales at this point in the season? I doubt it. I wonder at what point Ned will allow him to do soemthing.
    2007-04-07 02:42:07
    60.   Andrew Shimmin
    "Russ Ortiz, who will pitch today for the Giants, was pursued by the Dodgers during the off-season. . ."

    http://tinyurl.com/37ds2v

    2007-04-07 05:34:54
    61.   Terry A
    60 - Might've been fun, though only for the DT pool on how long it would take Bob's head to explode.
    2007-04-07 05:55:36
    62.   Terry A
    By the way, I didn't see this game. Jon's comments certainly praise Penny but also point out the Giants' meager offense might have bailed him out; Tony Jackson writes that Martin "coaxed Brad Penny through seven stressful innings."

    So I take it Penny was good but not great? Seven innings of one-run ball sounds pretty darned nice. Much better, to be honest, than what I expected.

    2007-04-07 06:55:03
    63.   Benaiah
    Thanks Andrew, MLB.TV works in firefox now. Did I mention how terrible Vista is?

    62- Penny did a good job, but usually 10 hits and 1 K does not equal 7 scoreless (he gave up the run in the 8th, after he was out of the game). I would have liked to see more swings and misses, the defense really bailed him out (3 DP, 2 CS and an out at home, effectively wiping 6 players off the bases). Still, not a lot of hard hit balls and generally a good job.

    2007-04-07 07:47:03
    64.   D4P
    60
    Russ Ortiz, who will pitch today for the Giants, was pursued by the Dodgers during the off-season because they felt the right-hander might return to the form he displayed going 103-60 with the Giants and Atlanta Braves from 1998 to 2004

    Who's to say he wouldn't have...?

    2007-04-07 08:14:14
    65.   Humma Kavula
    64 Who's to say he wouldn't have...?

    Yes, I see Bob Timmermann in the back, raising his hand. Would you like to say something, Bob?

    2007-04-07 08:14:22
    66.   D4P
    If there is a greater indictment of Colletti's philosophy than "Russ Ortiz might return to his form of 1998-2004", I have yet to see it
    2007-04-07 08:15:01
    67.   Gen3Blue
    Thanks to Fox for another Dodgerless Saturday on the east coast. I guess I can't blame them for showing Mets/Braves, though throughout the year there are times when they black out all game even after their broadcast is long over. I can't get DTV to give me the Fox west coast feed. Actually I can't get DTV to give me any networks, and its amazing to find I don't miss them.
    2007-04-07 08:16:22
    68.   Jon Weisman
    60 - Seemed like a pretty tepid pursuit, on the Joe Mays level.

    45 - The obvious choice from looking at the boxscore was Penny. You had to be actually paying attention to note Martin and Martinez's contributions.

    2007-04-07 08:18:48
    69.   Benaiah
    66 - To be fair, signing Russ Ortiz wouldn't require 45 million dollars and five years. It is certainly possible that he could throw some league average innings on the cheap. I don't have any problem filling out the back end of a rotation that way (isn't that what Randy Wolf is?).

    And the greatest indictment of Colletti's philosophy was signing Luis Gonzales. It had no rational, no benefit, at best you could say "at least it only hurts us this year."

    2007-04-07 08:29:13
    70.   D4P
    signing Russ Ortiz wouldn't require 45 million dollars and five years

    Neither did signing Juan Pierre...

    2007-04-07 08:31:43
    71.   Terry A
    69 - "...signing Russ Ortiz wouldn't require 45 million dollars and five years..."

    Oh, I don't know about that. Just look what happens when Ned gets in a bidding war with the Giants. :)

    As for Gonzalez, he's just got to get better. Doesn't he? Guys? Anybody?

    2007-04-07 08:44:54
    72.   Bob Timmermann
    I would agree with Jon that Russ Ortiz's role on the Dodgers in spring training was played by Joe Mays. I don't see where he would have fit in on the team

    I also think Luis Gonzalez can't be as bad of a fielder as he has shown the first four games. He just can't. In Strato terms, he's been a "6 e20 +6"

    2007-04-07 08:48:13
    73.   regfairfield
    Luis Gonzalez is not going to lose his job after four days. In fact, I would be rather annoyed at our management if they made a decision due to four games worth of results, even if it was a correct one.
    2007-04-07 08:49:21
    74.   Vaudeville Villain
    Offensively, I think Gonzalez will get better. He has to.

    Defensively, I don't know. Obviously he's not going to drop easy fly balls all season, but his range and arm have both been abominable thus far. And these are things he can't improve.

    Although his weak arm helped contribute to an out, I don't think they would have tested any other outfielder on that Randy Winn double.

    2007-04-07 08:49:43
    75.   Bumsrap
    Hopefully Pierre will do well enough to not hurt the Dodgers until the Giants can trade for him in June.

    I'm thinking the Giants get Pierre and cash for his fifth year salary and the Dodgers get comparable talent with a mazimum of two years left on their contract.

    2007-04-07 08:52:52
    76.   Vaudeville Villain
    75

    Here's a little Hemingway that seemed appropriate:

    "Yes," I said. "Isn't it pretty to think so?"

    2007-04-07 08:54:11
    77.   Benaiah
    74 - I read an article on the hardballtimes that said weak arms and rookies get more assists than guys who are thought of to have strong arms. People run on them, so they get opportunities. Supposedly Ethier had one of the best arms in the game last year.
    2007-04-07 08:55:03
    78.   Bumsrap
    Playing in the Brewers dome and in the cold damp SF AT&T park can make easy plays more difficult and it will take more time to judge Gonzo and Pierre on their catching abilities.

    But like Jackson said in his blog, arm strength will not get better for those two as the summer heats up.

    Platoon now and trade Valdez and Anderson to open spots for Furcal and Loney.

    2007-04-07 08:56:37
    79.   Benaiah
    Here is the article:

    http://tinyurl.com/2nmvlh

    2007-04-07 08:57:09
    80.   Bumsrap
    76 - YES
    2007-04-07 09:12:00
    81.   bhsportsguy
    75 Okay, let's try and figure out if there were any teams that actually were willing to make a deal, who would they be.

    The only teams with a need in that position are Pittsburgh, Houston, Chicago White Sox, Florida and maybe St. Louis if Edmonds is laid up for a while.

    Eliminate Pittsburgh and Florida on costs, Houston is experimenting with Burke right now and the White Sox has Erstad out there.

    But even if the White Sox could use him, they have a similar offensive player in Podsenick in their lineup and Anderson is probably their next option in CF.

    I think that in upgrade in the OF is only going to made at the corners and while Luis certainly has his work cut out for him to retain his starting status, Juan Pierre will continue to play CF for the Dodgers for at least this season if not more.

    2007-04-07 09:24:27
    82.   bhsportsguy
    Ramdom thoughts and questions.

    I did not see the whole game but it certainly seemed like Penny kept his velocity up for the whole game.

    At what point do you think a switch could be made and Broxton and Saito switch roles?

    Of course, Saito did not pitch a lot in Spring Training so it may take him a while to get into the swing of things.

    I really believe that the decision on who plays and when is Grady's and if there comes a time when Grady loses confidence in that player's ability (see Hamulack, Carter, Baez, Odalis Perez and Seo) he just won't use him and leave it up to Ned to make the roster moves to get him another player.

    The last time I recall hearing Vin be so critical of a player or team's defensive efforts was during the 2004 season when the Dodgers played the D-Backs towards the end of the year, they just could not make the basic plays and Vin was remarking that the D-Backs just did not have enough MLB level players out on the field. I believe that by that time, Luis was on the DL, getting surgery.

    2007-04-07 09:27:14
    83.   Disabled List
    Pierre will be a Dodger for all of this year and next. I can not envision Colletti swallowing his pride and trading him before 2009 at the earliest.

    Which reminds me: Regarding James Loney's 0-for-8... I know it's too early to start talking like this, but is anyone fearing a relapse of Joel Guzman Syndrome?

    There's a part of me that thinks Colletti is almost hoping Loney pulls a Guzman and tanks this season at AAA, so he can have a trading chip at the deadline and be vindicated for how "correct" he was in his evaluation of a flawed prospect. Guzman and Loney are two entirely different players, but that's the scenario that played out last year, and I'm seeing alarming similarities.

    Or maybe my tinfoil hat just needs to be readjusted.

    2007-04-07 09:37:17
    84.   Benaiah
    83 - What 0-8? He led off with a HR.
    2007-04-07 09:38:10
    85.   Bob Timmermann
    There is Dodgers Tinfoil Hat Night coming up later in the year, but the hats for children 14 and younger only.
    2007-04-07 09:40:08
    86.   bhsportsguy
    83 First, Joel Guzman is young and has a lot of time to recover his high prospect status but his stock was not the greatest as last season went on and that was not all based on what the Dodgers thought of him.

    For all of Joel's upside, it is certainly arguable that both Kemp and LaRoche have shown greater consistency at each level (while Joel did very well at Vero Beach, he was a good prospect in AA, only his potential power hitting ability and playing SS elevated him to higher ceiling player), had Guzman been shifted to a corner OF or 1B where he now projects to play, he would not be the high prospect that everyone labeled him as when he was coming up.

    On Loney, here's where I actually agree with Kevin Kennedy, the kid needs to shut up and play ball. Does he have a right to be upset, sure but he does need to have his agent or himself talk about being traded right now, that's just ridiculous.

    He has the first ticket to LA when either an outfielder or Nomar takes a tumble or needs replacing, that is going to happen sooner rather than later so I hope that he just focuses on the job at hand and he will soon see the lights of LA before he knows it.

    2007-04-07 09:45:31
    87.   Benaiah
    86 - I think the problem is that he initially said something to Colletti when he was demoted, which I think is fairly understandable, and then it got out to the press (I doubt that he leaked it, but whatever). Now the press is hot on the story and he is getting asked about it, so it seems like he won't shut up. I would prefer a "no comment" at this point, but I don't think he is the one bringing it up.
    2007-04-07 09:46:46
    88.   Jon Weisman
    It's been nearly 25 years since the Dodgers traded with the Giants. I don't see Juan Pierre changing that pattern.
    2007-04-07 09:47:16
    89.   StolenMonkey86
    73 - My guess is that it will take twice as long as the benching of Jose Cruz, because he cost twice as much.
    2007-04-07 09:49:43
    90.   bhsportsguy
    89 Jose Cruz could still catch and throw, if Gonzalez sits, it will be more due to that than his offense.
    2007-04-07 09:53:22
    91.   Eric Enders
    88 I could see an ex-Giant exec with a fetish for his own former players changing that pattern, though.
    2007-04-07 09:53:27
    92.   preacherroe
    #20-My thoughts exactly,Nate.Arizona and the Rockies are the up and coming NL West teams because they are integrating their young position players,while Colletti in true Giant mode is stockpiling washed up and never been veterans.
    I fear the trade line unless its to acquire Andruw Jones or Cabrera.
    2007-04-07 09:56:42
    93.   Jon Weisman
    91 - Well, Dave Roberts would have to be included in the trade for it to make any sense - Colletti never had him.
    2007-04-07 09:57:22
    94.   Disabled List
    84 He's 0-for-8 since the leadoff HR. But of course, there's nothing to read into that. I was just thinking about the scenario that played out last year, which could very well play out again this year.
    2007-04-07 10:04:06
    95.   Jon Weisman
    Guzman and Loney are not the same.
    2007-04-07 10:04:12
    96.   Benaiah
    84 - Obviously I missed the update.

    92 - Andruw Jones is not someone I want to trade for. I would love to have him on the team, but the price will be exorbitant, Pierre is blocking him in CF (and moving Pierre to LF only makes him worse) and he is a free agent. In order to make that trade I would want a contract extension (not going to happen), a trade of Pierre (unlikely) and probably still would balk at the price.

    Miguel Cabrerra on the other hand... I would offer Laroche/Betemit, Billingsley and Ethier without blinking. He is a top 5 hitter in the league, and still has three more years of arbitration (if I counted right). If they Marlins decide to trade him (foolish) then the price will be astronomical.

    2007-04-07 10:04:15
    97.   Curtis Lowe
    94- Guzman never hit .380 in Triple A and never came through in a play off game or had 9 rbis in one game. Guzman also complained after being demoted back to AAA after he did absolutely nothing while being called up to the Majors.

    They are completely different.

    2007-04-07 10:09:20
    98.   underdog
    Argh. Here's today's line-up, btw. Just posted in ItD:

    Pierre, CF
    Valdez, SS
    Nomar, 1B
    Kent, 2B
    Gonzalez, LF
    Lieberthal, C (first Dodger start - his dad used to be a Giants' scout!)
    Ethier, RF
    Betemit, 3B
    Lowe, P

    So Gonzo starts again; not a huge surprise - Little probably isn't ready to sit him and have Gonzo deal with the inevitable questions - but if he starts tomorrow vs. Zito THEN I'm gonna blow a gasket. Seriously. At least we have an Ethier sighting today.

    2007-04-07 10:11:40
    99.   underdog
    (The note above next to Lieberthal was Josh's of ItD of course, not mine. It's cool to see him get a start, actually. I still worry any time Russell Martin's not in there.)
    2007-04-07 10:11:50
    100.   Jon Weisman
    I don't think they ever intended Gonzalez to play 162 - I bet they planned to sit him Sunday even if this week hadn't been so messy.

    I bet.

    But ITD has Kemp in RF.

    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2007-04-07 10:12:41
    101.   Jon Weisman
    Sorry - my mistake - I read the wrong post. It's Ethier in RF.
    2007-04-07 10:13:35
    102.   Jon Weisman
    I think the worst thing Josh has ever done on his blog is his use of the exclamation point in that post.
    2007-04-07 10:18:35
    103.   Benaiah
    102 - I guess that means you are either really picky about punctuation or you think he hasn't done anything wrong.
    2007-04-07 10:21:21
    104.   underdog
    103 I would guess both. "!"s annoy me, too, in part because of the way they've been abused on the internet and in e-mails.
    2007-04-07 10:22:30
    105.   Bob Timmermann
    Remembers interjections show emotion,
    or excitement,
    They're generally set apart from a sentence by an exclamation point.

    Or by a comma when the feeling isn't as strong.

    So when you're happy, or sad, or frightened, or mad, or excited, or glad, an interjection starts the sentence right.

    2007-04-07 10:25:21
    106.   underdog
    The game was tied at seven all, uh-huh-huh,
    When Franklin found he had the ba-hall.
    He made a connection
    In the other direction,
    And the crowd starting shouting out interjections...

    Aw! You threw the wrong way!
    Darn! You just lost the game!
    Hurray! I'm for the other team!

    That last guy was always my favorite.

    2007-04-07 10:26:22
    107.   Bob Timmermann
    I figured that since it was Saturday morning ...
    2007-04-07 10:27:38
    108.   Eric Enders
    One exclamation point, you can argue about. It's the people who use two or more that really get to me. Every additional one incresases the annoyance exponentially.

    Jon has occasionally defended Josh's PR flakness by saying he's just doing his job. But putting exclamation points where they are not deserved is metaphorically the central part of a PR guy's job description. So I can't blame Josh for that one too much. Now if he had used three of them...

    2007-04-07 10:33:49
    109.   underdog
    I once had someone email me back after I'd written with some semi-big news, with this as their only response:

    "!!!"

    I thought maybe they'd converted to Bushman, but, hey, it did get their reaction across.

    2007-04-07 10:34:35
    110.   Curtis Lowe
    I for one am perfectly gruntled with Josh's use of the !.
    2007-04-07 10:35:21
    111.   Bob Timmermann
    This is a legitimate question and not nitpicking, Eric.

    Did you mean mean "flakiness" or "flakness?" Because I could read the sentence either way and it would make sense.

    2007-04-07 10:37:01
    112.   Bob Timmermann
    Every year I go to the SABR convention, I get an ID badge that reads "Welcome to SABR 35!"
    or whatever year it happens to be.

    I contend that it means that there have been 35 factorial SABR conventions.

    2007-04-07 10:37:23
    113.   D4P
    111
    I wondered the same thing, and thought it ironic that the difference between flakness and flakiness is an upside down exclamation point...
    2007-04-07 10:46:26
    114.   D4P
    BTW: I just noticed, for the first time, that the font in the box where you type your message is different from the font that is published
    2007-04-07 10:46:53
    115.   Jon Weisman
    It was all about context.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I once published a feature in the Daily News on Westlake girls basketball player Melissa Gische in which the first paragraph was:

    "!"

    2007-04-07 10:50:54
    116.   Curtis Lowe
    115- Very true about the context of the !.

    Example A- LuGo*!*

    Example B- Kemp*!*

    One is good the other is very very bad, can you spot the positive*!*?

    2007-04-07 10:51:10
    117.   Bob Timmermann
    Kei Igawa ≠ Daisuke Matsuzaka
    2007-04-07 10:51:32
    118.   Curtis Lowe
    115- Very true about the context of the !.

    Example A- LuGo !

    Example B- Kemp !

    One is good the other is very very bad, can you spot the positive ! ?

    2007-04-07 10:52:13
    119.   D4P
    Hard to believe the Yankees can't buy better pitching
    2007-04-07 10:53:14
    120.   regfairfield
    I just finished a fairly major project and all that was needed was a website.

    The person writing the website used 13 exclamation points on the first page alone.

    I will now be writing the website.

    2007-04-07 10:59:14
    121.   Bob Timmermann
    Dodger Thoughts is turning into a big Jake Jarmel vs Elaine Benes fight.
    2007-04-07 11:00:20
    122.   Bumsrap
    88 - The last 25 years did not include the Dodgers having a GM with Giant roots. And, if Jackie Robinson can be traded to the Giants, Marichal become a Dodger, and Duke Snider indirectly becoming a Giant, who cares about the last 25 years as an indicator for things to come trade wise with the Giants.
    2007-04-07 11:05:34
    123.   Bumsrap
    111
    Nitpicking in spirit just the same
    2007-04-07 11:07:02
    124.   Jon Weisman
    122 - I guess I care. And again, once the Giants signed Roberts, it made no sense for them to pursue Pierre. And Colletti likes Pierre. So those are the indicators I'm using.
    2007-04-07 11:08:14
    125.   Gagne55
    Is today's game on FOX?
    2007-04-07 11:09:55
    126.   underdog
    125 Yep.

    Fox National. Which means, I assume, Steve Lyons, too, but at least not Scooter.

    2007-04-07 11:11:11
    127.   Bumsrap
    If Gonzo continues to play is it loyalty to a veteran and to a GM or is rope.
    2007-04-07 11:13:36
    128.   underdog
    If Gonzo starts tomorrow, that'll be the first test to me that they've gone off the deep end...

    Btw, it's so foggy/misty here today that it's basically raining. But very light - I'm assuming it's slightly better at the ballpark and it won't affect the game start. But it might affect conditions and play a little. (Another reason not to have Gonzo in the OF, but I digress.)

    {interjection}

    2007-04-07 11:15:17
    129.   Bumsrap
    124 - I like those indicators better than the last 25 years but admit a trade with the Giants or the Angels would be unique. But indirectly, Kent is a Dodger so its not like Ned doesn't want anything Giants.
    2007-04-07 11:16:36
    130.   Gagne55
    126 Awesome. That means I'll actually get to watch the game today. Kind of sad that the only time I get to watch the Dodgers is when there is no Vin Scully.
    2007-04-07 11:16:57
    131.   Eric Enders
    111 No, I meant flakness, which I'm aware is not a word. I don't think Josh is flaky.
    2007-04-07 11:18:41
    132.   Bumsrap
    129 - Regarding dealing with the Giants --How different is signing free agents Kent and Schmidt than trading for them?
    2007-04-07 11:19:51
    133.   Eric Enders
    126 No Steve Lyons. He got fired from Fox national but not Fox local.
    2007-04-07 11:20:22
    134.   Bob Timmermann
    Jackie Robinson was heading toward his age 38 season, coming off two subpar, injury-plagued years, getting heavy, and wasn't particularly liked by O'Malley, Bavasi, and Alston when they tried to trade him to the Giants.

    The Giants were also also pretty bad in 1956, so it wasn't like Robinson was going to propel them into the first division.

    Snider ended up with the Giants after being traded to the Mets first. Marichal was just about done when the Dodgers tried to salvage him.

    The trades between the Dodgers and Giants since moving to L.A. have never involved players of any importance. Unless you really think Ron Hunt, Nate Oliver, Tom Haller, Alex Trevino, and Candy Maldonado were big stars. Maldonado and Haller each had some positive contributions after they switched teams.

    In the Brooklyn/New York days, the Dodgers and Giants traded more frequently although that was a factor of geography I think. And the fact that at different times, one of the two teams was doing a lot better financially (usually the Giants) and they could take some of the Dodgers pricier players off their hands.

    2007-04-07 11:20:24
    135.   Eric Enders
    132 Very.
    2007-04-07 11:21:25
    136.   Bob Timmermann
    Flakness is a perfectly cromulent word.
    2007-04-07 11:23:36
    137.   Gagne55
    133 That's right. He got fired for being racist.
    2007-04-07 11:23:43
    138.   underdog
    133 Ah. But the same can't be said for Joe Buck, alas. Though I dunno if he's doing this one... I'll be taping the game to watch later as I'll be gone mid day, so I'll check in here later. Good luck to our bums today!
    2007-04-07 11:23:45
    139.   Bob Timmermann
    Kei Igawa appears to be Japanese for "Mark Hendrickson."
    2007-04-07 11:25:42
    140.   Eric Enders
    136 Since Bob dragged up the Jackie Robinson trade, which is one of my pet peeves, can we just set the story straight once and for all? I hope every baseball announcer in America is reading this.

    Jackie Robinson did not retire because he refused to play for the Giants. Robinson had alredy decided to retire before the trade was made. He had already sold the exclusive story announcing his retirement to a magazine for (I believe) $5,000. The trade to the Giants had absolutely nothing to do with Robinson's retirement. Nothing.

    In fact, there was little love lost at the time between Robinson and the Dodgers. He and O'Malley hated each other, and Robinson still resented the fact that O'Malley had forced Branch Rickey out a few years earlier.

    [/soapbox] There, I feel better now.

    2007-04-07 11:27:49
    141.   underdog
    Duh, maybe if I'd read Josh's post more carefully (or maybe he updated it)...
    "National TV today, with Josh Lewin and Eric Karros on the call."

    Karros... sigh...

    2007-04-07 11:27:55
    142.   Bumsrap
    Sometimes I pound out a post and am not as careful with the tone as I should be. This is a do over of 122 just for the heck of it.

    The last 25 years did not include the Dodgers having a GM with Giant roots. And, if Jackie Robinson can be traded to the Giants, Marichal become a Dodger, and Duke Snider indirectly becoming a Giant, there are indicators the 25 year trade dought between the Dodgers and Giants will not extend to 26 years.

    2007-04-07 11:29:59
    143.   Bob Timmermann
    Besides, Marv Grissom had #42 on the Giants then.
    2007-04-07 11:30:26
    144.   ToyCannon
    132
    Because it takes two to tango!
    2007-04-07 11:31:42
    145.   Eric Enders
    140 Misspelling a word is embarrassing enough, but then I had to go and boldface it too. It's like Campanella said to Newcombe that time: "You're not only wrong, you're loud wrong."
    2007-04-07 11:37:22
    146.   imperabo
    "One exclamation point, you can argue about. It's the people who use two or more that really get to me. Every additional one incresases the annoyance exponentially."

    Actually, they increase the annoyance by a factorial. So !!! is 6 times as annoying.

    2007-04-07 11:37:42
    147.   Bumsrap
    135 & 144 -
    Three way trade: Schmidt to Dodgers, Zito to Giants, salary savings to A's. End result is the Dodgers have a Giants player on their team. With free agency such as it is, there is more blurring between trading and signing free agents, for me anyway.
    2007-04-07 11:39:58
    148.   Bob Timmermann
    In my opinion, the personal relationship between Sabean and Coletti makes it even less likely that they would deal with each other. They would both want to avoid the appearance of conflict of interest.

    When the Padres were run by Buzzie Bavasi, the Dodgers and Padres had one trade with each other and that was during the first week of the 1969 season. Then O'Malley and Bavasi decided to keep things separate. The Dodgers and Padres have had only one trade since then.

    If the Dodgers make a trade with their instate division rivals, I can envision a bench player changing sides, but not a starter.

    In 1957, Jackie Robinson likely would NOT HAVE started for the Dodgers. By 1957, the Dodgers decided to give newcomers Charlie Neal and Don Zimmer tryouts at short and Pee Wee Reese was being shifted over to third. Robinson didn't have a regular position in 1956, although most of his action was at third.

    2007-04-07 11:44:11
    149.   Bob Timmermann
    147
    That implies that the three teams all agreed to do that before hand, which would be, in a word, wrong.

    The Giants didn't want to renew Schmidt. Schmidt said he expected that as the team tended to do that with veterans not named Bonds.

    The A's couldn't afford Zito so once he left, they didn't really care where he ended up.

    The Dodgers thought that Schmidt could help their rotation and he didn't want a lot of years.

    The Giants signed Zito at the end of the free agent season (such as it is). Some of that was to placate its fans who were upset over the money spent on Bonds.

    I don't see a three-way conspiracy.

    2007-04-07 12:04:20
    150.   Jon Weisman
    Noon post up top.

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