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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Goon for a Weekend
2007-04-08 15:00
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

That's me. More great stuff from Wilson Valdez and Luis Gonzalez today. Again, I'm happy to be wrong for another day about them - the point I've been trying to make is just that to me, Wilson Betemit and Andre Ethier are capable of the same or better. But my cap's off to the Z boys.

Comments (117)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-04-08 15:05:21
1.   StolenMonkey86
(Disclaimer: I just got here so I apologize if this joke has already been made.)

Maybe Gonzalez was waiting until today to come back from the dead.

2007-04-08 15:08:56
2.   Jon Weisman
1 - I don't think the joke has been made, but I don't get it.
2007-04-08 15:09:41
3.   Jon Weisman
Padres get Peavy off the hook.
2007-04-08 15:10:08
4.   underdog
Yikes... Chad. C'mon. Let's not let them back into this one.
2007-04-08 15:10:59
5.   Benaiah
Johnson is in the clubhouse with +1.
2007-04-08 15:11:10
6.   dzzrtRatt
He is risen!

Does Scully make resurrection jokes? I bet he thinks that might offend someone.

2007-04-08 15:11:27
7.   StolenMonkey86
Upon further reading, it occured to me that it was not funny enough to avoid being a rule 6.

But nonetheless, I am impressed that now Luis Gonzalez has more home runs on the season than Albert Pujols.

2007-04-08 15:12:14
8.   underdog
As I think I've said before, I was less worried about Gonzo's offense coming around (didn't quite expect this kinda outburst yet) than I was about his atrocious defense, which I'm sure will get a little better too. I still think he should be sat down 2 times a week. And I really thought he should have sat today - so much for my ever managing a team!
2007-04-08 15:13:36
9.   Jon Weisman
To be more specific, Jose Cruz, Jr. gets Peavy off the hook.
2007-04-08 15:13:40
10.   Benaiah
Tiger just barely missed a putt that would have put him one back.
2007-04-08 15:15:30
11.   Benaiah
10 - Even worse, all he has left are two holes that he bogied the last two days.
2007-04-08 15:18:14
13.   underdog
Honestly, Clark, Kemp and Ethier all deserve to take some games away from Gonzo (and Pierre for that matter, but we know that won't happen often).
2007-04-08 15:22:22
14.   Bob Timmermann
6
Vin and his wife have a section of the Cathedral downtown named for them, so I don't think he's going to be making any Easter-related jokes.
2007-04-08 15:22:37
15.   underdog
Uh oh. Barry alert. Come on Chad...
2007-04-08 15:22:43
16.   Disabled List
11 Not everybody is rooting for Tiger. I'd love to see the no-name guy win the Masters.
2007-04-08 15:24:13
17.   Bob Timmermann
16
Don't tell D4P that.
2007-04-08 15:24:34
18.   PalmdaleSteve1
unrelated to goons, anyone down in LA LA land catch a Dodgers HD game on Channel 9 yet?

Up here in the hinterlands, we only get regular octane KCAL, and ESPN HD on the Dish. No Dodger game in HD yet for the season, though the other team that pretends to be in Los Angeles has been on HD and as they say...You look fabulous.

2007-04-08 15:25:24
19.   underdog
Hurray! I'm for the other team!
2007-04-08 15:26:25
20.   Benaiah
That is probably it for Tiger. He is in the sand and needs two birdies to tie.
2007-04-08 15:26:52
21.   Disabled List
17 Moot point now. Tiger just beached it.
2007-04-08 15:27:03
22.   willhite
I realize that Martinez and Valdez are not likely to start too many more times on the left side of the infield together, but I would like to nominate a nickname for that particular tandem: Luci (Lucille II) and Dezi.

As bad as our outfield has been so far, the infield has really been rather spectacular (fielding wise, I mean). Seems like no matter who we put in there, they really do themselves proud.

2007-04-08 15:28:35
23.   Indiana Jon
It's always amazing to me when they talk about how bad Tiger has been, how he may be under the weather, can't hit a driver this week, and the guy is going to finish 2nd at the Masters. A whole lot of golfers would kill to have that bad of a week.
2007-04-08 15:28:36
24.   Bob Timmermann
Chad Billingsley is glad they changed the language of the save rule when you pitch three innings.
2007-04-08 15:29:22
25.   underdog
Chad's not impressing the Giants at all today. At all. But that's okay, we still love him.
2007-04-08 15:31:26
26.   overkill94
18 Yeah, it looks quite good, but i'm no HD expert
2007-04-08 15:32:06
27.   D4P
23
Tiger is so good that, when he plays well, he wins. When he plays poorly, he's still usually in contention.

Most players need to play well just to have a chance to win, and when they play poorly, they miss the cut.

2007-04-08 15:33:45
28.   Bob Timmermann
Jim Nantz is announcing the 18th hole like it's a funeral procession.
2007-04-08 15:34:56
29.   D4P
28
People generally don't know what to do when Tiger falls short or does something bad. It's a very interesting phenomenon.
2007-04-08 15:36:31
30.   underdog
Ooh, that was a bad call - that was a foul ball by a couple of inches. I thought it hit chalk first but it didn't.
2007-04-08 15:37:35
31.   underdog
You guys are missing Bochy going ballistic on the ump.
2007-04-08 15:37:38
32.   Bluebleeder87
Kent is going the other way allot more no?
2007-04-08 15:38:15
33.   Bob Timmermann
No save for Chad.
2007-04-08 15:38:51
34.   Benaiah
30 - But since Kent is on my fantasy team, I am happy nonetheless.
2007-04-08 15:38:58
35.   StolenMonkey86
so no 3 inning save for Billingsley
2007-04-08 15:39:19
36.   dzzrtRatt
Four A's relievers held the Angels to one hit and no walks over the last 3 2/3 innings of their game today. 7 strikeouts.
2007-04-08 15:39:40
37.   Benaiah
Tiger is shooting for the Masters.
2007-04-08 15:40:37
38.   dzzrtRatt
I was waiting for Tiger to get a hole-in-one. The announcers set me up to think he might really do it.
2007-04-08 15:41:22
39.   underdog
Nice hit by Kemp - even if that run shouldn't have happened.
2007-04-08 15:41:26
40.   StolenMonkey86
yay, double digits!
2007-04-08 15:41:33
41.   Benaiah
Nice shot, but not that nice. I like that Tiger is still so pissed after all this time. I would probably be dead of sun exposure on a beach somewhere at this point in his career. I guess that is reason number one billion why I don't have his career.
2007-04-08 15:42:31
42.   underdog
And Valdez, another 3 hit game. Unbelievable.
2007-04-08 15:42:40
43.   overkill94
I know it's not the ideal configuration, but would everyone be that upset if Kemp ended up becoming the starting RF over Ethier?
2007-04-08 15:43:15
44.   Bob Timmermann
It's the ninth inning, so there's no change in the Cycle Alert status. All conditions are normal.
2007-04-08 15:44:49
45.   underdog
Well, let's put it this way - let's hope that 10th run doesn't matter, for multiple reasons.
2007-04-08 15:45:46
46.   overkill94
Is there any doubt that Valdez should now start ahead of Martinez while Furcal's out?
2007-04-08 15:47:13
47.   dzzrtRatt
43 No, it's not ideal, but Ethier is a pretty good piece of a trade. It would open a door for Loney to overtake LuGo this season possibly, next season for sure. I'm assuming Garciaparra has closed the door on first base for James.
2007-04-08 15:54:10
48.   Bluebleeder87
Wolf dodged a bullet with the bases loaded but settled down the last 3 innings he pitched, nice sweep from the boys in blue.
2007-04-08 15:54:48
49.   underdog
For a sweep of the Giants, that was less satisfying than it could have been, but I'm pretty happy with it. 4-2 road stand going into home opener, minus Furcal. I'll take that. Have a good rest o' the day, all!
2007-04-08 16:21:20
50.   Humma Kavula
I know that it's only been six games, so tiny sample sizes come into play.

I know that Pierre will likely end the year with his usual high-BA, low-OBP, high-steals, low-K numbers.

So don't take this as anything more than a silly post...

...but right now -- with 24 outs in six games -- Juan Pierre is on pace to make an astonishing 648 outs.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-04-08 16:40:50
51.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
As I left the largely deflated Giants crowd today, I pondered which I enjoyed more:

a. Dodgers winning going away (like today), with the Jints never really in it

or

b. Dodgers making a late inning come-from-behind victory, erasing a three to five run deficit.

While b is certainly more exciting to watch, there is the period of time before the comeback is in full swing where the crowd has its fangs out and are raring to ridicule any Dodger fans in sight.

I'm glad, I guess, that I don't get to choose the outcome.

The game itself was an exercise in forethought:

- We pondered if Luis Gonzales was fast enough to score from second on a single, and I suggested the Wilson Valdez get another double to make it moot. He promptly tripled.

- We pondered if, after Zito left the game with two runners on and one was exchanged in a fielder's choice, if Gonzales hit another home run, would Zito get charged with the second run, or Hennessey? Gonzales promptly homered, making the theoretical an actual, and it turns out the fans around me were wrong (and my instinct was right - Zito gets charged for the second run)

Ah, fun. Sweep.

2007-04-08 16:58:08
52.   Louis in SF
Happy to see Kemp making the most of his starts. While many on this site believe that La Roche is the answer at 3rd for this year I don't think he will be ready until next year. If that is the case I hope Betiment will get started soon. Would love to eventually see Nomar play some time at 3rd and then give Loney a chance at 1st. Ironically Loney is much more of a Nomar type of player rather than a power hitting first baseman.
2007-04-08 17:08:00
53.   thinkblue0
52-

Betemit will get it together, but the question is if he'll learn how to hit lefties. If he can't, then we have to seriously consider some sort of platoon option. Of course, the ultimate goal would be to have LaRoche ready to take over, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen. You know, the idea of a Betemit/Lucille II/Valdez platoon at 3B really might not be all that bad...

2007-04-08 17:10:32
54.   natepurcell
so from people that watched today, why did chad struggle? how was velocity?
2007-04-08 17:17:58
55.   bigcpa
Bills was throwing 93/94 on the Fox gun. For some reason he rarely worked the inner-half of the plate. He was letting everyone extend their arms and serve liners all over the place. And didn't he get the scouting report on Feliz??
2007-04-08 17:41:40
56.   slatkin
After being at the game today I realized how remarkably obsessed Giant fans are with hating on the Dodgers rather than with their team actually winning games.
2007-04-08 17:57:23
57.   Gen3Blue
56 I'm not sure what that means for their attendance this year. I know its awfully early, but it looks to me like the Giants may have a better chance of getting some revenge on the D's than winning many games.
Whatever that means.
I just wrote a rather symmetrical paragraph, wonder what that means. Is this a recursive routine?
2007-04-08 18:08:23
58.   Bluebleeder87
And I really thought he should have sat today

I echo your thoughts also, we did squeeze two dingers out of him today.

2007-04-08 18:16:34
59.   Bluebleeder87
56

they really should be hating on Sebean (sp?) I can't believe the news papers out there don't call for his head.

2007-04-08 18:22:21
60.   Dodgers49
We're facing a lefty tomorrow, it's another day game and LuGo just hit two home runs. So Little can safely rest him now. So I wouldn't be surprised if LuGo gets tomorrow off. We shall see. :-)
2007-04-08 18:29:56
61.   Andrew Shimmin
Tomorrow's opening day. Gonzalez will be in the lineup for the same reason Schmidt will be.
2007-04-08 18:31:57
62.   Dodgers49
61 - You're probably right. I guess we'll just have to wait for his next two-homer game. :-)
2007-04-08 18:32:10
63.   Gen3Blue
61 Pay?
2007-04-08 18:38:19
64.   Andrew Shimmin
It's not just pay. Opening day is a showcase; winning is the primary concern, but not the only one. So, it's like every other day, but more so.

Whether Kemp or Ethier gets the start will be interesting to see.

2007-04-08 18:41:49
65.   dsfan
59

Sabean's part of the problem, but the bigger problem is Giants ownership, which drove the overspending for Zito, Bonds, Morris and others and has mandated that Sabean go the veteran route, in the wild hope that the Giants can finally win it all with Barry. In a word, the Giants are deluded. The window on the World Series shut on them a few years ago. I know it's heresy to say it here, among Giants haters, but it's really a shame. The Giants have a terrific ballpark and a huge fan base. Their product shouldn't be shoddy.

Thing is, the Giants fans I know would have been understanding if the club had told fans, 'Hey, we've had a good run from 1997-2003, making the playoffs several times, but we need to start producing our own players, we need to get younger. The next few years will be difficult, but we'll be better off in the long run.'

Every year that the Giants failed to take their medicine, their illness got worse and now it's a sickly franchise. For their sake, I hope they have a terrific draft thisyear. They do finally have a lot of draft picks. After they host the All-Star game, they should auction off as many veterans as possible, blow this thing up.

2007-04-08 18:45:41
66.   Dodgers49
64. Whether Kemp or Ethier gets the start will be interesting to see.

I'm happy to see my favorite player (Kemp) doing well with his opportunities so far. I'm a little sad that it's coming at the expense of Ethier because I think deserves better.

2007-04-08 18:48:58
67.   Dodgers49
66 - "he deserves better."
2007-04-08 18:50:48
68.   Andrew Shimmin
65- Somebody has to be bad. It seems fair that the Giants take their turn.
2007-04-08 19:07:43
69.   Nagman
Tony Jackson has info on tomorrow's lineup at his blog. I guess Grady liked what he saw today.
2007-04-08 19:12:25
70.   dsfan
Does Abreu come up to play third as a quasi-platoon partner to Betemit? Abreu has been playing at third lately.
2007-04-08 19:17:01
71.   Louis in SF
56 Has it dead on. Having lived here for a number of years and seeing the benefits of both cities, people in San Francisco are more insecure about where their city ranks and hating on LA and the Dodgers is the extension of that insecurity. On a level larger than baseball teams I believe that the cities are far closer in many ways than they used to be.I went to SF State in the late 70's.

The next time you want to have some fun, listen to KNBR after a Giant loss especially aginst the Dodgers-the pain is wonderful to hear. Part of it is the entitlement in the voices of their fans.

2007-04-08 19:26:12
72.   Andrew Shimmin
Alex Cora, the smartest man in baseball, just made a mental error.
2007-04-08 19:39:03
73.   Gen3Blue
Many of the last 20 posts. As an east coast fan whose family has followed the D's since Brooklyn I feel both a part of, and a step removed from the LA-San Fran rivalry. I could have easily have been a Giants fan who followed their move west. At a major coorporation I worked with an obsessed Giants fan who harassed me cruely through the 90's. I couldn't understand how the Giants org. seemed to often and easily best us with less of a payroll. I remember thinking they had ruined baseball with their big Bonds contract--but it worked for them. It seemed so inflationary at the time, but it was in reality a stroke of genius.( although drugs may have played a part). Then there was our amazing contract for Kevin Brown. It seemed inflatiionary, and it was a stroke of idiocy, that would have destroyed a less resilliant franchise.
Now that we seem on top, I certainly won't feel bad about enjoying it unless it goes on for more than ten years, at which point I will take my time reevaluating.
2007-04-08 20:18:51
74.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
56 My only question is why it is just occurring to you now.

Example: they boo Jeff Kent. Today, they cheered when Zito threw a high brush-back pitch at Kent.

It is rather challenging to live in San Francisco, bleed Dodger blue and be afraid to wear an LA cap around town for not wanting to be hassled. I've had so many unprompted bad incidents at Dodgers-Giants games that I don't care to retell them all, but I have come to understand when to blend in (if the Dodgers lose) and when to be comfortable (if the Dodgers win).

I have thought about this often and from many angles, often debating with a friend if I was biased in my thinking that the Giants fans are insecure and filled with hate while most Dodger fans just want to win (it all, actually). So I wonder if any Giants fans living in LA feel it hard to admit their loyalty to others, feel it scary to wear an SF hat in LA, and feel that Dodger fans are more interested in being abusive to them than having their own team win.

But mostly, I could care less about the Giants.

2007-04-08 20:24:53
75.   Andrew Shimmin
The Extra Innings free preview was extended through next Sunday. So, another week of getting nothing done.

Hooray!

2007-04-08 20:29:27
76.   D4P
75
I'm guessing the world is a better place when your work goes undone.
2007-04-08 20:32:56
77.   Dodgers49
>>> MITCH JONES, 1B

Las Vegas; Class AAA

The Dodgers signed Jones to a minor league contract in the spring hoping he could be a late-blooming power hitter. The power has always been there — he has 165 home runs in seven minor league seasons and twice won minor league home run derbys — but an inability to make contact has held him back. He strikes out a lot and has never hit better than .268. Still, his start this season is encouraging. He had five hits, including a home run and a double, in his first eight at bats. The three outs he made were strikeouts, meaning he has yet to make an out when he put the ball in play. <<<

http://tinyurl.com/yp88mk

2007-04-08 20:33:02
78.   Bluebleeder87
For their sake, I hope they have a terrific draft thisyear.

The rivalry is that much more fun when BOTH TEAMS are good.

2007-04-08 20:33:34
79.   Louis in SF
74 Brent, gather you are a Dodger fan living in SF as I do. What do you think about my contention that their is a lot of jealosuy and envy of LA in general by people in SF. Where people in LA think overall that SF is cool. These conflicting themes end up coloring the rivalry.
2007-04-08 20:33:56
80.   Greg Brock
75 Those nerve agent warheads aren't going to deliver themselves, Andrew.

Baseball should never take a backseat to work.

2007-04-08 20:38:24
81.   D4P
BTW: Does anyone know why the Pythagorean Record uses the squares of Runs Scored and Runs Allowed rather than just the raw numbers? Looking at 2006 data, I found that the correlation between (1) winning percentage and the squares, was exactly the same as the correlation between (2) winning percentage and the raw numbers.

Maybe the correlations differ for other years, but I wouldn't think so, given that they were the same in 2006.

2007-04-08 20:39:48
82.   Dodgers49
>>> SCOTT ELBERT, P

Jacksonville; Class AA

Elbert, 21, the Dodgers' top pitching prospect, retired the first nine batters in order in his opening-day start for the Suns and finished with nine strikeouts in six innings, giving up only four hits. He took the 3-1 loss, giving up three runs on three hits and a walk in the fourth inning, but the performance indicates he's ready should injury or poor performance strike any Dodgers pitcher. He was a combined 11-9 with a 2.90 ERA and 173 strikeouts in 146 innings at two minor league stops last season, but he had command problems with 85 walks. He walked only one in his first start this season. <<<

http://tinyurl.com/yp88mk

2007-04-08 20:49:24
83.   Dodgers49
Abreu, 51s roll against Bees

>>> Tony Abreu drove in three runs and Las Vegas pounded out 18 hits to top host Salt Lake, 9-4, on Sunday at Franklin Covey Field. <<<

http://tinyurl.com/2oewzq

2007-04-08 20:55:52
84.   Andrew Shimmin
76- That can't be true. If it were, the world would be perfect.
2007-04-08 20:57:47
85.   be2ween
I lived in SF (and Berkeley) for the better part of '83 - '97. It was/ is comical, bordering on pathological, how much the Gigante fan despises the LA Dodger. It's some superiority thing. People in SF, like to say for example, 'LA is concerned about looking healthy, WE are concerned w/ BEING healthy.' I know that some of the country thinks of SF as being the homosexual mecca and therefore 'it's gay'. Methinks the Giant fan protesteth too much, and is over-compensating for some unnamed need/ drive/ desire to be accepted. Dodger fan seems to not be as 'caught up in it' as much. I do know that since I returned to LA in '97, I have loved loathing the Giants ever the more! :) Payback!
2007-04-08 20:59:40
86.   D4P
84
Amen, my brother.
2007-04-08 21:06:32
87.   LAT
74. Life for a Giant fan at Dodger Stadium is not much diffrent, maybe worse. I have often gone to Dodger-Giant games at DS with one of my close friends who is rabid Giants fan and he gets abused pretty badly for a Giants hat or tee-shirt. On one or two occassions a couple of tatted, drunk gang looking types dropped F-bombs at him and his 7 yr old daughter and made they uncomfortable enough to change seats.
2007-04-08 21:20:30
88.   underdog
I live in SF, too, and I've also lived in LA before (grew up in SoCal) went to college and grad school up here and stayed because I love SF. Hate the Giants, though. I mean, look, i think you guys may be oversimplifying the LA vs. SF thing just a little, though I do think there's something to the insecurity sometimes expressed, especially via the vitriol Giants fans spew towards LA and the Dodgers. It's part of the "fun" I guess, though I get pretty tired of it (especially last year when I witness firsthand the Baez meltdown in the 9th, lucky me). THEN I felt a little nervous about wearing my Dodger hat, or like I didn't want to deal with it. But I wear it around town all the time and no one says boo. I see a lot of Dodger hats around here these days actually. And there are a lot of native Angelenos living here.

And as LAT notes above I've seen terrible behavior on the part of Dodger fans towards Giants fans at Dodger Stadium, terrible, embarrassing drunken behavior. So we should watch the righteousness a little.

That said, I do think there's something of an imbalance in the rivalry, and the amount of overall hatred up here for LA - though it has weakened over the years, maybe because there are more people who have lived in both places?

And I agree with the previous poster that it's a little more fun when the teams are evenly matched, the rivalry that is. The analysis of what the front office has done wrong there the last few years is dead on. I've read a lot of criticism of Sabean this year, maybe for the first time, in the local papers as well as online, so I don't think people are blind to it. (The continual worship of Barry is another matter...)

2007-04-08 21:38:44
89.   das411
29 - Ooo we can have some fun with this one, I'll start!!

"People generally don't know what to do when [Derek Jeter] falls short or does something bad. It's a very interesting phenomenon. "

65 - So what you're saying is that the Giants should try to fill long term holes, like say at 1B, after the deadline by shipping off certain veterans...hmm...

2007-04-08 21:38:58
90.   s choir
81 Disregarding the squares works better as the runs scored/runs allowed ratio approaches 1. The greater the disparity, the more inaccurate the predictor. In plain English, using the raw numbers works for, say, the Cardinals, but it doesn't work for teams like the Mets (or, conversely, the Royals).

The mathematical reason behind this has something to do with derivatives, I think. I only went as far as calculus, and I just got a C, so I don't really have a great concept of how it all works.

2007-04-08 21:45:38
91.   bhsportsguy
Does anyone think that the move to the California League is going to hurt the development of our young pitchers?

On the one hand, Blake Dewitt and Lucas May may have double digit home runs by Mother's Day but you have to wonder on how the very hittable conditions going to affect the young arms.

One thing to watch is the play of Lucas May and the experiment of moving him to being a catcher, he OPSed .825 last year in Sally League, he will certainly hit better than that in Cal League so just look for how he is doing defensively. He is 22 but it looks promising.

2007-04-08 21:50:40
92.   underdog
Speaking of that Vegas game:
Vegas starter Greg Miller threw three innings, yielding a run on one hit and five walks. He struck out three.

Not bad, not great control. Not getting a lot of innings in yet...

2007-04-08 21:59:37
93.   FirstMohican
I leave for Mexico w/ the Dodgers 0-2 and come back to 4-2. Awesome.

74 - Not to say being a Dodger fan in SF isn't hard, but I would rather be there than a SF fan at an LA game. I feel sorry for the SF fans who sit in the all-you-can-eat-pavillion, where the nacho, and presumably the cheese, is free.

Of the 3 Giants games I've been to (1 at Candlestick, 1 at SBC, and 1 at AT&T) I've felt like the laidbackedness of Giants fans was leaps and bounds above the Dodger fans'.

2007-04-08 22:06:17
94.   LAT
As an entertainment only betting proposition, I an setting the over/under line on the number of DT posters at Opening Day at 27.

I count as 1.

2007-04-08 22:08:25
95.   bhsportsguy
94 Two, as in DT Poster No. 2, in the shade though that might not be necessary, if anyone wants to meet up somewhere like the store or LF Pavillion for batting practice let me know.
2007-04-08 22:12:32
96.   bhsportsguy
93 I have attended two games in then Pac Bell Park, may be the most famous game since it was the one where Barry hit Nos. 71 and 72, but the Dodgers won that game so all was good, then we went the next day, Barryless but Arnold Palmer was in the park, the Dodgers won that day too so my trip was pretty successful in that regard.

We wore our Dodger gear and was not really yelled at or anything, talking to the fans there, they remarked that the crowd was less vocal about it since the move from the Stick. Of course, that was 6 years ago so times may have changed.

2007-04-08 22:21:39
97.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
87 The kind of behavior you site is (obviously) deplorable, but hopefully exceptions more than rules.

There are a handful of things I'd point out in my classic debates about this topic:

- The "Beat LA" slogan is chanted 5:1 vs. the "Let's Go Giants" slogan. Hm. Wanna cheer for your team, or against the others? In non-scoreboard-led chants, "Beat LA" and "Dodgers s__k" chants tend to come up a lot.

- From time to time, the Giants organization tries to exploit the vitriol by including it in their marketing plans/advertisements.

- Local sponsorships produce "Beat LA" signs.

These kinds of things stir up the idea that the Dodgers are to be hated, and I just don't know if, outside of parallels to the Boston-New York rivalry, if one sees that outside of collegiate rivalries. I also don't recall ever seeing it in LA. (I'm not saying it isn't there -- I just wonder if it is and don't know about it.)

I do agree with 88-- it seems to have lessened in recent years. I think that the period of '97-'03 was when it built to a fervor, and I relate it directly to what I have observed at the ballpark, too: when the Giants beat the Dodgers, the fans are unruly and emboldened, but when they are defeated, they are energy-less. Hence, when the going was good for the Giants from '97 to '03, the hatred for the Dodgers manifested more greatly, as they were finally superior to the Dodgers for a stretch.

What I find most sad is the jealousy explanation, because it might be true. San Franciscans have so much to feel good about, and LA shouldn't be on their minds so much. But it seems to be. "Oh, you're from LA? Ew." -- I've heard that many, many times.

I choose to live in San Francisco, and I love it. I also think LA has a heck of a lot to offer, and I don't see the two ideas as mutually exclusive.

2007-04-08 22:33:19
98.   Just Blue
All my life I've observed Giant & Padre fans chanting "Dodgers Suck!", but I don't ever recall DS crowds chanting against the Giants or Padres. Dodger crowds are definitely guilty of harassing Bonds, but doesn't he deserve it.I've been personally harassed at games in SF & SD, but have lived in peace with their fans in our park.

IMO Dodger fans want to win it all regardless of who they're playing, but SF fans really delight more in beating the Dodgers than in having a winning record. I've never lived in the Bay Area, but I used to live in SD and they definitely had a jealousy problem with LA...to the extent that they felt LA looked down on them like their ugly little sister.

2007-04-08 22:49:41
99.   Bob Timmermann
I had read somewhere that the most accurate exponent to use for Expected Wins and Losses was something like 1.86 and not 2.

But it's easier to figure things out with a power of 2.

2007-04-08 22:57:09
100.   Greg Brock
99 There may have been others, but this one is the one I know about:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=342

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-04-08 23:05:04
101.   gibsonhobbs88
97 - The rivalry in terms of the fan reaction was definitely more one-sided as most Giant fans who hate the Dodgers have been that way and was evident in the late 90's through 2002-03. However, in the last few years including our Finley winning grandslam in 2004-the Dodger fans have become more territorial and less tolerant of Giant fans than in years previous. When the Giants start their Beat LA chant at our park, I start yelling "Crisco Frisco" or "How many WS have you won in SF, Nada"!!
We got 5 to your None, Scoreboard baby!!!
My personal dislike for the Black and Orange "Hated Ones" doesn't detract from enjoying the city when my wife and I visit there, though I have refused to catch a game there until Bonds retires. My dislike for everything he stands for, outweighs any desire to spend money at their park to see him play!!
2007-04-08 23:37:58
102.   StolenMonkey86
I've told this story before, but not for a while. I live on the east coast, but on a flight from Richmond to Dulles I had my Dodger cap on, and I hear a guy say "See him, we don't like him." I turn around, and I see this guy with a kid that couldn't have been more than a year old. I said, "Are you a Giants fan or something?" and he said "yeah."

Actually, what amazed me the most was that I didn't hear the kid for the whole flight. Sure it was a 30 min flight, but that's still quite a trick.

2007-04-08 23:38:20
103.   Just Blue
{Wilson Betemit and his .067 batting average were benched Sunday, with Ramon Martinez starting at third base. Betemit is also out of options, so he would be vulnerable to the same risk as Valdez.

Betemit said he feels he's seeing pitches well, but batting in the eighth spot with the pitcher providing no protection, he sees few good pitches to hit and has been missing them.

"He's playing outstanding defense, but he needs to be better with the bat," said Little.}

He probably isn't seeing many good pitches in the 8th spot. I'd like to hope that Grady would consider batting Pierre 8th when Furcal returns, since he's a slap hitter anyway.

2007-04-08 23:40:34
104.   StolenMonkey86
funny, Ramon Martinez also has an .067 batting average. Betemit does have 4 walks compared to Martinez's 1, though.
2007-04-09 00:18:32
105.   Michael D
Why do the Giants wear halloween colors, they never win in October.

/zing

2007-04-09 00:25:49
106.   Out in the desert
94- I'll be there behind home plate, in the upper deck. I guess that makes me #3.
2007-04-09 00:49:17
107.   Andrew Shimmin
Watching the replay on FSNPT, it looks like Kent's ninth inning double was foul. Oh well. I like the the umpire gave Bochy a chance to not get kicked out, walking away after hearing him through, the first round. Bochy followed him over to keep it going. He wanted to get chased. Which, to me, was the least he could have done. If you're going to get swept at home by the Dodgers, the fans should get something out of the day.

It's fine with me if Grittle wants to chase the Valez rainbow, but it seems like he should be taking ABs away from Martinez, instead of Betemit. It's nice that the guy is hot, but that's what it is. He doesn't seem at all likely that he's suddenly become good. If he clears waivers, does that mean Thomas Perez gets released?

Get well soon, Furry. . .

2007-04-09 01:04:55
108.   Improbable88
4 -- Work? Um...no.
2007-04-09 01:35:58
109.   bhsportsguy
After tomorrow, there is only one LH starter scheduled in the next 9 games, David Wells, who is slotted to start Friday night for the Padres (they could skip him but that seems unlikely based on his first outing of the year). Other than that start, the Dodgers will face 2 righthanders for the Rockies after Francis, two tough righthanders in Peavy and Young for the Padres over the weekend, 2 righthanders in Arizona next week as well as Cook and Fogg for the Rockies in Denver.

When the Dodgers return home to face the Pirates, they are likely to face 2 lefties back to back before closing with a righthander.

Sometime during all this, Furcal is supposed to be back, interestingly Gurnick is beginning to mention that it may be Ethier who goes back down instead of Kemp though Valdez is still likely to be the odd man out when Raffy comes back in a few days.

Betemit should get a fair chance to play in the next 2 weeks but I think there is already some guys not named Martin, Nomar, Kent and Furcal who may want to step it up this week at home. (Both Pierre and Luis are also going to play the majority games but right now I think a lot of things are going to be in flux)

2007-04-09 02:13:08
110.   bhsportsguy
Last year it took until game number 10 before the top 4 starters each won their first game. Same in 2005, 10 games and in 2004, 12 games. This year, thus far in one week, the starters have all the decisions and they all have one win to their credit.

Most unlikely record based on their runs scored and against thus far, Atlanta being 5-1 with 25 runs scored and 25 runs against.
(In their 5 wins, they have a 24 to 14 advantage, in their sole loss, they lost 11-1)

2007-04-09 07:24:53
111.   Benaiah
This is a very funny article, that looks at why the Dodgers were successful in 06 and wonders if they can do it again. It should probably stir up some debate around the ole watering hole.

http://tinyurl.com/2zwtzh

2007-04-09 07:25:14
112.   D4P
100
I guess that answers my question. In reality, the Pythagorean Record doesn't seem to have much practical value, in that we already know that scoring runs is good and allowing them is bad.

On a related note, using 2006 data, I looked at the relationships between Winning Percentage, Runs Scored, and Runs Allowed. I found that Runs Allowed has a stronger influence on winning than does Runs Scored.

2007-04-09 07:25:26
113.   Benaiah
And in fairnes, I was referred to that article from Andrew's site: truebluela.com.
2007-04-09 07:29:19
114.   D4P
111
I found that article yesterday through True Blue LA. I liked it, and was kinda surprised by the readers' comments.
2007-04-09 07:45:29
115.   Benaiah
114 - BTF has the worst commenters. The amusing thing is that he made a joke about how all stat heads are 30 year old, pimple popping virgins and immediately proceeded to get very stat happy, which seems like the equivalent of a Chris Rock show (he can say it, but Michael Scott can't). Yet, all the yahoos got upset (perhaps this was a little to close to home?). I really liked the article, it was funny and it pointed out stuff that I didn't know about the team (which is pretty rare considering my consumption of all things Dodger related).
2007-04-09 07:50:53
116.   Jon Weisman
I read it and thought it was a bit overwritten, and that it wasn't news that the 2005 Dodgers weren't as bad as they appeared on paper, but there were some good points in it.

New post coming up top.

2007-04-09 08:03:15
117.   Frip
31
"You guys are missing Bochy going ballistic on the ump."

Rule #6 violation.

A somewhat heated disagreement at most.

2007-04-09 10:31:14
118.   slatkin
74
Simple...I just moved to San Francisco from Arizona within the past year. I was talking this over with my friend at the game (an innocent Padre fan)...Giant fans are obsessed with beating the Dodgers whereas Dodger fans could care less about beating the Giants and are more focused on winning the division, the pennant, the World Series. I guess when your city has 0 World Series victories you gotta aim small....

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