He was a revolutionary in a very staid and conservative profession. I'm sorry to hear of this, although it wasn't unexpected.

As a child, I loathed the Niners. When I grew older and realized what Walsh was, and who he was, and how he did things, well, I look back on those Niners teams, that crushed my Rams and made me sad, with fondness.

Bill Walsh was amazing.

Was Walsh really so amazing? I mean, didn't he have The Best Quarterback in NFL History™, The Best Wide Receiver in NFL History™, The Best Safety in NFL History™, ad nauseum? Not to mention the infamous "49er Huddle" utilized by countless teams of referees to overturn unfavorable calls.

Makes me sick to even think about it.

3 - Can't tell if that's sarcasm, but those players weren't born 49ers. Bill Walsh had a lot to do with them becoming The Best ___™.

The 49ers were my first team, even before the Dodgers, and Bill Walsh was responsible for that happening. He will be missed.

3 He changed the way football was played. How many people can you say that about? You can't say it of Lombardi, Knoll, or any of those guys. Can't say it of Landry.

He practically invented modern offense.

The Forty-Niners of the '80's were the first football team I ever really paid attention to. Bill Walsh seemed like such a grandfatherly type to me at the time. And to echo the post in the earlier thread, just check out his coaching tree, wow.

Bill Walsh invented the West Coast office. That alone qualifies him for greatness. On top of that, he won many championships during a time when there was less parity and thus greater competition in the league. He also has created a massive coaching legacy -- see his coaching tree at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Walsh_(football_coach)

I was a huge Rams fan and was sad when the Niners always beat the Rams, but even so I recognized that Walsh was a great coach.

From what I could tell, the 49er offense consisted primarily of very short passes to very fast receivers who ran very long distances through very porous NFC West (esp. Ram) defenses. I gave most of the credit for that to the receivers, not the weak-armed QB who threw the 5-yard passes or the coach who called what became no-brainer plays.

It's like giving credit to Phil Jackson for dumping the ball into Shaq. When you have a guy who will either dunk or get fouled, of course you dump the ball into him every time. It's the right thing to do, but it doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

On a somewhat related note, I've never understood people who were 49er-Dodger fans. It just doesn't make sense.

In Baseball news, Rosenthal is reporting Dotel to the Braves and Castillo to the Mets.

I grew up a Bears fan in Chicago. I disliked Walsh and 49ers simply because they were always in our way because they were an offensive machine. When the Bears won in 85' (Super Bowl XX in '86), we finally got past them. Then Walsh landed Steve Young and it started all over again. He was a brilliant coach and a true sportsman.

R.I.P Bill. You remain a respected opponent and you gave the game and the fans a lot to be proud of.

8 You're not helping your pledge drive for minions one bit.

8 - people who were 49er-Dodger fans.

7-year olds are funny that way.

11
Love me, love my 1980s-1990s 49er hatred.

Hey, I was a Dodgers fan early and a 49ers fan late. I never lived in LA when the Rams were there, and we Hawai'i football fans had to look to the West Coast to place our allegiances.

I think Walsh's genius came in part from recognizing talent and figuring out how to use it. Montana's arm certainly wasn't close to many of his contemporaries at his position, but Walsh designed an offense to make use of the skills the guy had (and the intangibles; I remember that bowl game comeback).

9 Castillo to the Mets

That can only mean the Twins are clearing the way for a Betemit-for-Garza trade. :)

As for Walsh, my tribute to him is the indentation my knuckles left in a wall when the Niners knocked the Rams out of the playoffs one year. He stomped on my heart like few others.

13 Who scouted and drafted all those guys? Walsh did.

8. They only became no-brainer plays after the fact. Coming up with a great formula doesn't make it any less impressive when it becomes so successful that it seems obvious to us in retrospect that it is the right way. It seems obvious to us, because now everyone runs a variation of the West Coast offense.

I grew up in LA as a Dodger fan but when I was a kid my father did a business deal with Gene Washington of the 49ers and he came to our house for dinner. He was the first sports figure I met in person. Thus, a 49er -Dodger fan was born.

I loved Bill Walsh. After years of suffering thorough John Brody, Tommy Hart and the rest of the hapless 49ers, Bill Walsh made them a dynasty.

As for having the best player. Ask Brian Seabean what kind of guarantee that provides.

I think it would take a lot more than Betemit to get Garza.

Lohse to the Phillies according to Fox.

Twins tv guys consider Garza their best young pitcher so he is probably the least likely to go. Scott Baker would be more likely but Ryan rarely trades pitching.

Lohse to the Phillies.

So I guess Garnett is going to be a Celtic. Wow.

I feel honored that Bill Walsh's last football activities were to come to Raiders minicamp and give advice to our team. Bill Walsh was a true football genius and more importantly was a great man.

RIP

22 That's the only topic on Minnesota sports talk radio today.

If Rosenthal is correct, the Braves will have done two favors for us over the past 24 hours.

Would much rather have Greinke and/or Snell than Dotel, even if it would cost us a better player.

I was a Rams fan before I was a Dodger fan. My Dad moved with his family to Los Angeles in 1951, and the family had Ram season tickets for three decades.

I became a real sports fan at a Rams exhibition game in 1975. I didn't really start caring about the Dodgers until the following year. But between Georgia Frontiere and the move to Anaheim, I lost my passion for the Rams. And my dad got rid of our Ram tickets. We got season tickets for the Dodgers in 1982.

The Stanford side of my family had me rooting for the 49ers under Walsh even when he was 2-14 or whatever it was in his first season. That he turned out to be brilliant made it all the better. Those 49er teams were so much fun to watch.

When the 49ers played the Rams in the 1980s, I was torn, but I found the 49ers very easy to root for.

Montana's arm certainly wasn't close to many of his contemporaries at his position

Nor were his legs. In fact, he had virtually no discernible football skills. Couldn't throw and couldn't run. All he could really do was throw short passes to fast receivers who did the rest.

But I've said enough.

27 You realize that these are very tough sells, right?

I remember Walsh saying he told his scouts that he wanted to see the five best plays a player made before he made a decision about whom to draft. He was very into what a person was capable of doing and that has influenced me to this day. Too many people focus on the negative and that rarely helps anybody.

About the time the 49ers became great, the Rams lost their owner in a drowning and his wife, Georgia Fronterie, became owner, fired her step son, traded Hacksaw and Dyer (one of the all time best pass rushing defensive ends of all time if I have his name right) to the 49ers, failed to trade up in the draft like the 49ers did to get Ron Lott, donated to the opera, and thereafter drained the Rams only to be rewarded by St. Louis.

As a pup I was a big Vikings/Reds (NFL/MLB) fan and rooted hard against the Rams/Dodgers. Then later in life i discovered the whole home-town loyalty aspect of being a sports fan. I became a Rams fan and it seemed like when the Rams and 49ers would always beat each other on the road there for a while. I never really hated Bill Walsh or the 49ers. I had a quiet respect for them. Mr Walsh seemed like a nice person, but I will leave the accolades to those that knew him. More importantly, I hope his family is coping with their loss. To me that's the most important thing when someone dies, not how much you loved or hated his teams. When someone passes away, it doesn't seem all that respectful to be a "hater".
vr, Xei

27
If only that was true.

Ingrid Bergman is one of those people in film that I have heard so much about, but really never got to see what he did. I have only seen La Passion de Jeanne d'Arc, but the man obviously had tons of talent and has influenced so many filmmakers that he had to be doing something right.

If it weren't for my Dad, there's a good chance I'd be a Giant fan. Most of my family is from SF/Sacto and are big time Giant and Niner fans, and I lived up north until I was about 8. I grabbed the Niners first, followed by the Dodgers by way of my Dad. I didn't really care about basketball until I moved down South, and Magic took care of the rest from that point on.

29 Talk like that about the Rams just makes me sad. What a shame that they didn't stay and aren't still LA's team.

How's the Potter chat going?

30
It doesn't do one much good to be "hater" at anytime. I outgrew that when I grew up. It took me 40 years but eventually I got there.

35 Slower than I thought it would be.

The city of Los Angeles was taken for a ride by that owner. Used and discarded, almost with contempt. Where's Jim Healy when you need him? Oh yeah....

19 I think it would take a lot more than Betemit to get Garza.

Yeah, that was really not meant as a serious possibility. The Twins have no reason to trade Garza. but Betemit would be a good fit for them.

You realize that these are very tough sells, right?

Absolutely. I'm one of a small minority who never bought into the hype. People look at Montana's stats and think he's great. To those who watched the games, it was pretty clear that other people did most of the work. He threw short passes, which bumped up his completion % and kept his INTs down, and then the fast guys ran a long way after catch, which bumped up his yardage and gave him TDs.

There's no doubt in my mind that virtually any other NFL QB could have thrown similar 5-yard slant passes to Rice and Taylor with similar success.

29 - That's Fred "Two Safeties in One Game" Dryer.

Growing up, our family always believed that Georgia had Carroll murdered. He was reported to have drowned in four feet of water.

34
I should have walked up to the Edward Jones Dome last week and cursed Georgia Frontiere!

Georgia took me from avid Rams fan to barely caring about the NFL. I watch about 3 games a year now, maybe.

Oh, no!! Jimmy Fallon is replacing Conan O'Brien when Conan takes over for Leno.

32 Careful, D4P will go on a rant about how Bergman was an overrated hack who was lucky to work with good actors. Anybody can point a camera at a movie star. ;)

My mother absolutly forbid me to say I hated something, even the cough medicine, but she did allow me to have water with it. It worked, I can say I have never hated. I also learned the difference between observing and judging and am now a much better observer.

43 - He's just on a list of candidates. But Evan Grant calls it a lock.

46
Yeah, the headline jumped the gun.

Bergman's arm certainly wasn't close to many of his contemporaries at his position

Nor were his legs. In fact, he had virtually no discernible football skills. Couldn't throw and couldn't run. All he could really do was throw short passes to fast receivers who did the rest.

Certainly Walsh was a great coach. I may be wrong, but rather than inventing his offense, I always thought it was more of an evolution of the Sid Gillman, Don Coryell style of pass-offense, but adapted to be more horizontal than vertical. It may be, however, that both have been referred to as West Coast offense.

40 I still go back and listen to Healy clips online. His roundabout allegations were hilarious.

Georgia was Rachel Phelps. The villain.

43 The real thing that blows my mind is that NBC is debating cutting bait on Conan replacing Leno and eating the money that he's owed as part of his contract. For all I know the contract is setup a specific way, but from what I read it seems like NBC would rather pay $40 mil owed to Conan to keep Leno.

51
If Conan goes to CBS, then I will follow. IF anything wouldn't Conan bring a new audience to the Tonight Show? The people who watch it now, will probably still watch it.

39. Well, you would be wrong. While I'm not going to argue that Montana was the best quarterback, you are severely underestimating what is important in being a good quarterback. Most anyone can throw a 5-yeard slant, the key is in reading the defense and knowing when to throw it, to whom to throw, where to put the ball when you do this. These are very difficult things to do, particularly the first two, which is why you see so many highly drafted quarterbacks do poorly. To me, the things that make a quarterback very good are among the most intangible in all of the sports. The ability to make a quick read and to do what you want to do under pressure are nearly impossible to measure, as long as a meet a minimal (for NFL players at least) phyiscal threshold you will be a successful NFL quarterback if you can do these two things, Montana was among the best at these things.

49 I was under the same impression.

Also, Jerry Rice wasn't particularly fast.

Not a good time to be very well known, re: Snyder, Bergman, Robinson, Walsh.

Sadly, Lohse was probably the best pitcher that was realistically available, so there goes that option.

Odalis is now probably the best pitcher that's available. Ponder that for a second.

Vin Scully was the TV play by play guy when Montana hit Clark in the back of the end zone according to the Colorado announcers the other night.

56 - Time flies and that was the shortest second in recorded history.

57
That was Scully's last football game. He left CBS because they wouldn't give him the Super Bowl assignment.

Heh. Odalis isn't happening, thankfully. Hard to come back when you've been treated like a trash.

Why jimmy Fallon? I was thinking that Tina Fey would be a funny progressive replacement for Conan.

At least it wont be Dane Cook.

Love this from Olney re the TEX/ATL deal:

"The deal reminds me a little of the fire-sale trades made by the Padres in 1993. At the time, San Diego swapped perennial All-Star Gary Sheffield for young players that casual fans wouldn't know, and Padres GM Randy Smith was excoriated for the deal. And one of those three young players is going to the Hall of Fame -- Trevor Hoffman -- rather then just a middle reliever with a great arm."

I think Lohse would have been a poor acquisition. He's maddeningly inconsistent, and that never works well down a stretch drive.

Is there any substance that Snell or Greinke are even available?

61 How about Tina behind the desk and Jimmy as the Ed McMahon sidekick?

And one of those three young players is going to the Hall of Fame -- Trevor Hoffman -- rather then just a middle reliever with a great arm

What if he's just a middle reliever with a great arm who's going to the Hall of Fame...?

63 Oh, he's not guaranteed to be better than Tomdrickson, I'm just saying he was the best pitcher available.

I join the chorus of those here that are concerned about Bonds breaking the record at Dodger Stadium.

It would probably be a lot of booing, and that's it. But man, there is a capacity for serious shenanigans.

I think if we make any deal it will be for a starting pitcher that no one thought was available. We have enough talent to make anyone available. I just said that last line to make those who like to be nervous, nervous.

67 I think the guy who posted previously about thousands of Russ bobbleheads being thrown onto the field should Barry go yard on Thursday was onto something.

I think if we make any deal it will be for a starting pitcher that no one thought was available

Barry Zito...?

21
I could see us going for Matt Morris.

32 Train, Carl Theodor Dreyer was actually the director of that amazing film Passion de Jeanne d'Arc. I can see how you can get them mixed up, though, both being moody Scandinavian directors.

It's eerie, because I'd just rented The Seventh Seal, realizing I had only seen pieces of it in film school. Had no idea how prescient or symbolic that rental would be. Some of his films are truly depressing even if beautiful, but many were a bit more up - Smiles of a Summer Night, Wild Strawberries is beautiful, many others.

Btw, I always hated the 49ers because I was a Broncos fan living in the Bay Area and then the Niners put the smackdown on Denver in the Super Bowl which sealed it for me. But I also always respected the heck out of Walsh.

That should be a 70 under 71.

My Dad always believed Rosenbloom was murdered. But he thought it was gambling problems.

He claimed to know that Rosenbloom was a very strong swimmer.

And man did he hate Goergia Frontiere.

73
How does one try to type "70" and type "21" instead...?

75
No idea.

75 By closing one's eyes.

I think I accidentally typed over it, while typing to someone on Aim.

Anyone worried about the Dodgers giving up anything to acquire Dotel can probably - probably - breathe a sigh of relief now. Via Ken Rosenthal: the Braves are close to a deal for Royals' closer Octavio Dotel. They apparently have made a better offer than finalists Cleveland and Los Angeles.

There is no way I will throw my Martin bobblehead at Barry. It is too valuable to me. It is getting kind of sick...last night I dreamed that I went to the game early and got to chat with Martin by home plate. I woke up very sad to be in reality.

For some reason I will be happy to witness such a historic event if Barry hits it out on Thursday.

I hated Montana like cancer (Notre Dame AND the 49ers?), but man was he a great quarterback and sell him short at your peril.

79
The better news is that we might be interested in Benoit becuase the price on Dotel was to high. Benoit would have been one of my top choices if we had to get a reliever. I'd rather see him pitching the 6th/7th and the occasional 8th then high priced closers being converted to setup men. His skill set has been on the rise for 4 straight years.

79 - Stark mentions on ESPN.com the names of Farnsworth and Benoit now as LA "targets".

71 - I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see Matt Morris on the Dodgers.

79 How is it that the Braves could make a better offer for Dotel when they allegedly threw all of their young talent at the Rangers to get Teixeira?

Happy 48th birthday Rickey Horton ! He pitched 4 scoreless innings in the 1988 NLCS.

84 - We don't know what LA's offer was for Dotel. If not Hu, then who?

82 You make a good point about going for a setup man to be your setup man rather than going for a closer. That said, Dotel is a pretty good pitcher to pitch a 6th/7th stint. Are the Orioles still waving Bradford around or has that stopped now that Chris Ray is injured?

84 They still have Lillbridge who is probably worth more than Hu. Not that this would unnecessarily happen.

The "word" is that since Moore knows the Brave farm system better then anyone he knows who he wants for Dotel. Lillbridge was acquired this winter when Moore was already gone so I'm not sure he is the target.

87
Dotel might very well be a good setup man but Beniot can do the same job for less. Of course most of us think Meloan can do the same job for the price of a phone call.

*MEDIA ADVISORY*
FRANK MCCOURT, OWNER AND CHAIRMAN OF THE LOS ANGELES DODGERS,TO MAKE MAJOR CHARITABLE ANNOUNCEMENT
WHEN: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 4 p.m.

There's a trading deadline joke to be made here.

88 Thanks. Yes, Lillibridge is still a chip for them. He's not exactly tearing up the AAA though.

90 You are on top of your one-liner game today, Jon.

I would like to ask bluegold (referring to his post in the last thread) what trade he thinks could have been made to "win now". People wanting not to trade Loney and Kemp and Billingsley want not to trade them so that we can win now and win for years to come. What trade is there out there to put the Dodgers over the top this year? I can't think of a single one.

90 Why in the world would somebody make a huge announcement for charity three hours after the most frantic moment in baseball?

Weird

89 You think most of us think Meloan is as good a reliever as Dotel? As good as Benoit?

92 - He's not a fan of developing Billingsley, so I would assume a package would start with Chad for a "proven" starter like an Aaron Harang or Javier Vazquez.

Having seen submariner Chad Bradford miss some bats at Camden Yards, I wouldn't mind seeing him in Dodger blue.

Ugh, Matt Morris? Ugh. I hope not.

Benoit might be interesting, and cheaper than Dotel, I'd wager. But I still think the Dodgers need depth for SP, not relief - and I don't know which SPs are available that would be much of an improvement over the Young Frankensteins we're throwing out there now. But maybe there are some available that we - and Ken Rosenthal - just don't know about yet.

93 It is indeed odd. I wonder if Frank McCourt knows about the trade deadline? (Okay, I'm pretty sure he does.) Maybe it's meant as a distraction while the Dodgers quietly announce a trade.

93
Maybe because we are not going to do anything at the deadline or trade prospects and he wants to look good?

98 Whether its a middle reliever or a middling starter, we're going to do something.

84 Huh. According to the KC Star, "the Royals appeared to ready to trade veteran closer Octavio Dotel to the Atlanta Braves on Monday afternoon for right-handed starter Kyle Davies." Huh.

What do you suppose it would take to get Javier Vázquez? I thought the White Sox were ready to have a fire sale.

Buster Olney says the Dodgers and Yankees "continue to discuss" a Betemit for Proctor swap. The Yanks have wanted Betemit for awhile -- apparently they would stick him at 1B -- so this is probably a New York leak. I wouldn't mind having Proctor but I don't know that he's worth Betemit, especially with both Kent and Nomar getting older and more likely to get hurt (like Kent did yesterday).

101-Vazquez has a no-trade clause to all NL West and AL West clubs.

100 Kyle Davies? We can match that offer!

Betemit at first base?? Proctor? My head hurts. Wake me up on Wednesday.

102-I wouldn't mind trading Betemit if that gets LaRoche up here sooner.

Heck, how about trading Betemit back to the Braves f