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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

The Big Lineup Question Answered
2007-07-31 17:21
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Dave Roberts will be in center field for the Giants, according to Jill Painter of the Daily News.

Oh, and Barry Bonds will be in left.

* * *

Tonight's game:

Gameday

Retro Gameday

Comments (428)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-07-31 17:25:02
1.   Curtis Lowe
I see what you did there.

Pretty good, pretty,pretty,pretty good.

2007-07-31 17:26:30
2.   Lexinthedena
Hey....now THAT's funny....

OK, I'm out for real this time.....

Have a good evening folks!

2007-07-31 17:28:51
3.   D4P
And Nomar is firmly entrenched in the #5 spot of the lineup as the starting 3rd basemen.

In other news, the backup 2nd baseman is Lucille II, not, oh, say, Wilson Betemit. But no doubt Proctor will make up for whatever is lost in that tradeoff...

2007-07-31 17:28:55
4.   sanchez101
Im going to the game tomorrow; do I want Bonds to hit it tonite (assuming he has to hit it against the Dodgers) or do should I want to witness it tomorrow?

Also, do you think Vin has already decided what he is going to say should Bonds hit it in this series? I almost want him to go silent and let Dodger Stadium do the talking (like he did at times when Gagne made his entrance), but that doesn't really sound like Vin in this situation.

2007-07-31 17:30:10
5.   sanchez101
3. Wilson Betemit was never the Dodgers backup 2B in reality - only in the minds of stubbord DTers who apparently don't care much about defense.
2007-07-31 17:33:17
6.   Icaros
5

Yes, because Jeff Kent brings loads of defense to the table.

Enough with the DT generalizations. You don't know what everyone thinks.

2007-07-31 17:33:21
7.   Eric Enders
4 "Also, do you think Vin has already decided what he is going to say should Bonds hit it in this series?"

--------
http://tinyurl.com/2bckts

"Do you remember Aaron's home run?" asked Scully, who called it on the Dodgers broadcast. "Bill Buckner climbed that fence they had out there. What would have happened if you were in the middle of something prepared and he caught the ball?

"That's why I absolutely would not have anything prepared."

2007-07-31 17:34:04
8.   D4P
5
Would it be fair to say that Lucille is the backup 2B in the minds of folks who apparently don't care about offense...?
2007-07-31 17:35:20
9.   underdog
Why do people assume Bonds will hit one out this series? Okay, Tomko's pitching on Thursday, that would be the date I'd circle on my calendar. But you never know. Maybe it'll come tonight.

Honestly, if the Dodgers win these games, I won't care as much whether he does or doesn't.

Last call, SF-ers. Watch the game on TV at the 4th Street B&G, 4th and Mission, SF. 7pm. Email me at underdog8@gmail.com if you want us to look for you.

2007-07-31 17:35:23
10.   Eric Enders
5 "stubbord DTers who apparently don't care much about defense."

That's a fairly brutal mischaracterization of those who, perhaps quite rationally, believed Betemit's offense for a middle infielder would more than offset his admitted defensive shortcomings.

2007-07-31 17:36:48
11.   Eric Enders
Sorry, I didn't mean to pile on there. Then again, that statement was probably worth refuting three times.
2007-07-31 17:38:34
12.   gpellamjr
11 But the typo, what about the typo! Won't somebody please point out the typo?
2007-07-31 17:38:43
13.   D4P
Why do people assume Bonds will hit one out this series?

I'm predicting no HRs for Bonds this series.

2007-07-31 17:39:27
14.   Marty
This is how Joe Posnanski at The Soul of Baseball recently described Roberts:

Dave Roberts who I've been watching play center field like a tourist stumbling through Chinatown looking vainly for the Hang Ah Tea Room. Holy cow. I have not broken down center fielders yet defensively, but I have to predict based entirely on visual evidence that Roberts will not score well. I mean, he's fast and he seems like a generally cool guy and all that. But he also seems to be on an eight-second delay whenever the ball's hit.

2007-07-31 17:39:47
15.   Icaros
9

To me, the perfect scenario is Bonds breaking the record in LA while his team loses yet again.

And the fans in DS disappoint Dave Roberts (Barry's newest apologist) greatly.

2007-07-31 17:39:51
16.   Curtis Lowe
If Bonds hits one out I predict that Hendrickson will also hit one out.
2007-07-31 17:40:22
17.   Eric Enders
I'm predicting no HRs for Bonds against the Dodgers ever again.

Well, not really. But a guy can dream, can't he? And it actually is fairly plausible.

2007-07-31 17:40:24
18.   gpellamjr
13 Didn't you see the ESPN montage of big HRs hit against the Dodgers? It proved that all important HRs have been hit against the Dodgers, wherefore Bonds must tie and break the record against the Dodgers.
2007-07-31 17:41:05
19.   Marty
9 Wish I was up there to join you guys.
2007-07-31 17:41:22
20.   D4P
I'm sure there are a million holes in this, and that it doesn't really matter, but here goes:

2007 Rate2 at 2B:

Lucille: 90 in 19 games
Betemit: 113 in 12 games

2007-07-31 17:42:01
21.   sanchez101
I still astonishing to me to hear people still claim that Betemit can play 2B. I guess it's just an opinion - maybe I'm wrong ... along with the professionals in the Braves and Dodgers organizations who get paid to make these kinds of choices.

My main point was that Betemit was never the Dodger's backup 2B, I'm somewhat surprised that this is still disputed.

2007-07-31 17:43:02
22.   Eric Enders
15 "To me, the perfect scenario is Bonds breaking the record in LA while his team loses yet again."

The greatest thing about #71 was that it came in the game in which the Dodgers eliminated the Giants from playoff contention.

2007-07-31 17:43:17
23.   Sam DC
Did I just hear the name of the Reds' pitching coach correctly, or am I just a bad person?
2007-07-31 17:44:09
24.   gpellamjr
21 Who claims that Betemit was the back up 2B? I don't remember hearing anybody say that. There is, however, a question whether he should have been. I think it is a legitimate question.
2007-07-31 17:44:15
25.   trainwreck
9
Darn, wish I could get out to SF.
2007-07-31 17:44:24
26.   scooplew
68 (Previous thread) "Boychikz" is a great name for a team. It's the kind that Kevin Mench would feel comfortable on. I once played on a newspaper team called The Herald Angels.
2007-07-31 17:44:51
27.   JT Dutch
3

"And Nomar is firmly entrenched in the #5 spot of the lineup as the starting 3rd baseman."

... I suppose if Grady Little and Ned Coletti managed the 1983 Dodgers, Ken Landreaux would be leading off, Steve Sax would be hitting fifth, Pedro Guerrero and Mike Marshall would hit 7th and 8th, respectively, and Greg Brock would be traded to the Yankees for Dale Murray.

2007-07-31 17:46:17
28.   D4P
27
On the plus side, Moose would have never sniffed the starting lineup.
2007-07-31 17:46:38
29.   Icaros
The greatest thing about #71 was that it came in the game in which the Dodgers eliminated the Giants from playoff contention.

I've always felt the same way. It stung so much less. It seems like people forget that now.

2007-07-31 17:48:14
30.   sanchez101
20. Among other problems, Betemit has played 12 games at second his whole career, not in 2007. Moreover, he's only played 85 innings at 2nd in his whole career, which comes to less than 10 games. He's played .7 adjG (adjusted games played) which comes to about 6 innings in 2007. Why would you think that someone whose played less than 9 innings at 2B is the backup and why would you think someone who's played 12 games at 2B over 6 seasons can play the position?
2007-07-31 17:48:30
31.   Jacob L
This has got to be a downright depressing time to be a Giant fan. Sure, Bonds is going to break the record. I suppose if SF was my team, I'd take some satisfaction out if coming against the Dodgers, even to a chorus of boos.

Beyond that, the GM just failed to deal any of the over-priced veterans they have toiling for a last place team, save for Matt Morris. The return on Matt Morris, who went to a non-contending team, was less than thrilling. By next year, Bonds should be gone, and it starts to look pretty hopeless.

So, to wrap up, sometime this week, there's likely to be good night for Giant fans. It could be the last one for a long, long time.

2007-07-31 17:48:56
32.   sanchez101
24. see 3
2007-07-31 17:49:06
33.   Jon Weisman
Dodgers winning is most important to me tonight.
2007-07-31 17:49:36
34.   Eric Enders
Nomar has started in the #5 slot exactly five times this year, which doesn't scream "entrenchment."
2007-07-31 17:50:37
35.   Icaros
19

We could use more numbers on our side, considering the location.

Especially guys like you who probably came out of the womb breaking a bottle over someone's head.

2007-07-31 17:52:00
36.   scooplew
15 22 The Giants are 8-8 this season in games in which Bonds has homered once, 1-1 in games in which he has homered twice.
2007-07-31 17:52:40
37.   D4P
30
To be honest, I don't really have any idea how good Betemit is at 2B. But I operate under the logic of 10, which is that (Betemit - Lucille II on offense) is a positive number, and a larger number in absolute value than (Betemit - Lucille II on defense).
2007-07-31 17:53:30
38.   sanchez101
31. I think the Giants prefer to think that their problems are due to Bonds (at least if you listen to their owner). Trading away all their overpriced vets for youth might imply that the problem with the Giants is their over-aged roster. Just a theory.

Also, how do you gut half a roster for minor league talent and then finish the season? Its not like the Giants have much talent capable of stepping in right now, nor will they get much major-league-ready talent in trades.

2007-07-31 17:53:43
39.   underdog
Icaros said he'd pay for Marty and Trainwreck's travel expenses to come join us there, but maybe I misheard that.
2007-07-31 17:54:27
40.   JT Dutch
28

... Hey, I liked Marshall. Besides, you didn't want to put Monday in right. By 1983, Rick was already a statue.

2007-07-31 17:54:50
41.   Jacob L
38 Their season is finished.
2007-07-31 17:55:00
42.   D4P
I don't really understand why Giants fans care one way or another about Bonds breaking the record, given that the team itself is in last place and pretty much out of playoff contention. I also don't understand why they defend him against roid allegations, given that he hasn't done anything for them that is in jeopardy. It's not like they have a tainted world championship or something.
2007-07-31 17:55:09
43.   Marty
Hey, I'm going to Frisco!
2007-07-31 17:55:40
44.   Bob Timmermann
I appreciated the fact that Bonds' 71st homer came in a game that was the longest 9-inning game by time.
2007-07-31 17:57:07
45.   D4P
Hey, I liked Marshall

I touched his back at the first game I ever went to at Dodger Stadium. He was playing catch before the game, and was right up against the low fence along the foul line in RF. I was right behind him, and he leaned back into me to catch a high throw. He then turned around and gave the ball to a kid next to me.

I hate you Mike Marshall!

2007-07-31 17:57:22
46.   Eric Enders
44 Though it would not have broken the record if not for the artificial stoppage of play, right?
2007-07-31 17:57:49
47.   trainwreck
I'm only in Walnut Creek so I am not that far. Maybe I can make it if you guys go the next two days.
2007-07-31 17:58:01
48.   sanchez101
37. I get that, I have no idea how good he is or could be either. My problem was that considering that the guy was moved off of SS because he outgrew the position - how does playing 2B any sense. I you think he could play 2B, why not SS?

Also, if a lot of baseball scouts, proffesionals, and executives think Betemit isn't a 2B, I'm going to go with the experts over my opinion and my fellow Dodger Thoughts posters. It comes across as extreme hubris to me to think that I know better than John Schuerholz, Ned Colletti, Bobby Cox, and Grady Little.

2007-07-31 17:59:56
49.   sanchez101
41. Oh, I agree - Im saying that by trading away their old talent they might have trouble fielding a respectable team, they'd be Bonds, Zito and the Fresno Grizzles.
2007-07-31 18:00:13
50.   Icaros
If Trainwreck hops on BART from Walnut Creek, I'll compensate him with a drink or two.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-07-31 18:00:25
51.   still bevens
48 You have it switched. He outgrew SS because he was blocked by Furcal, and thought it would be to his advantage to bulk up to produce like a corner infielder should since he was being moved to 3B.
2007-07-31 18:01:03
52.   D4P
44
BTA, YNF.
2007-07-31 18:01:55
53.   Bill Crain
48
I'd just like to say that I think I know better than John Schuerholz, Ned Colletti, Bobby Cox, and Grady Little about almost everything.

Okay, maybe not Bobby Cox.

And Grady probably knows more about motorcycles.

2007-07-31 18:02:00
54.   Icaros
Come on up, Marty!
2007-07-31 18:02:20
55.   Dodger Jack
Betemit is gone. Let's get over it. The truth is that he could not even keep up with Kouzmanoff as a hitter this year. He was a big time prospect at Atlanta. They gave up on him. Now we have, too. Sure, he had his moments. But most of the season he was on the periphery of the Mendoza line. LaRoche can do better than that. Betemit is just not a second baseman. Abreu is, should Kent go on the DL for very long.

Proctor was a nice pick up. I expect him to outperform everyone in the bullpen except for Saito and Broxton.

Someone in the last thread gave Ned a C grade for waiver deadline trading. That is way too tough on hairpiece-man. He deserves a B just for standing pat and not trading ANY prospects. Most of us bleakly expected that we would lose one or two. Yet, they all survived! That is going to pay big dividends over the next couple of seasons.

2007-07-31 18:04:31
56.   D4P
The truth is that he could not even keep up with Kouzmanoff as a hitter this year

Sigh.

Betemit: .231/.359/.474/.834
Kouz: .233/.290/.411/.701

2007-07-31 18:04:49
57.   JT Dutch
48

"It comes across as extreme hubris to me to think that I know better than Ned Coletti"

... Hey, it isn't hubris to say that I wouldn't have re-signed Nomar, and signed Juan Pierre to a multi-year deal. But Coletti did.

2007-07-31 18:06:33
58.   Eric Enders
So Betemit couldn't keep up with a guy who's a career .332 hitter in the minors? What a wanker.
2007-07-31 18:08:18
59.   Paul B
56 Wow. Very interesting comparison, considering Betemit is only five months older than Kouzmanoff. I wonder what kind of response a Kouz-Proctor trade would have elicited.
2007-07-31 18:10:12
60.   Paul B
59 Uh, check that. According to B-R, Betemit is five months younger than Kouzmanoff.
2007-07-31 18:11:05
61.   Marty
54 I was responding to Underdog saying you were paying.

45 I touched his back at the first game I ever went to at Dodger Stadium

And he immediately went on the disabled list.

2007-07-31 18:11:30
62.   D4P
It comes across as extreme hubris to me to think that I know better than Ned Coletti

This is the kind of thinking that allows political leaders to do whatever they want. "He got elected: he must know what he's doing."

I don't buy it. Ned didn't get hired because he knows more than the rest of us about baseball stats and player evaluation. Do you really think he has any clue what VORP is or BABIP? I think it's safe to say not only that he has no clue, but that he doesn't want to have a clue. He openly mocks those kind of stats.

If anything, it's extreme hubris for people like Colletti, Joe Morgan, etc. to ignore advancements in baseball statistics and to tell the rest of us that traditional stats (e.g. BA, Wins, etc.) are all they need to know. It's like politicians tellings scientists that politicians know more than scientists about science.

2007-07-31 18:11:34
63.   scooplew
55 Ned succeeded during the trading period by not succumbing to the temptation to swap any of his core young players for any of the starting pitchers who were likely available. How long is Proctor signed for, or, because he has only four big league seasons, is he not eligible for free agency?
2007-07-31 18:11:44
64.   Robert Daeley
56 Would Wilson have kept that up over the additional 131 ABs? (156 vs 287)
2007-07-31 18:12:48
65.   ToyCannon
Hey, I don't mind you all banging on Wilson to make yourselves feel better about Ned dumping him but at least get your facts straight when comparing him to his peers. Who would have believed that D4P has my back.
2007-07-31 18:13:22
66.   D4P
To be fair to Kouzmanoff, his home stadium is (obviously) not a hitter's park. But his road splits aren't anything to email home about either:

.223/.282/.459/.741

2007-07-31 18:14:22
67.   Icaros
61

I know. I was playing along.

2007-07-31 18:15:06
68.   Robert Daeley
66 Neither were Betemit's:

.178/.295/.397/.692 ;)

2007-07-31 18:17:07
69.   trainwreck
Well I can't make it out to SF today, but possibly next two days.
2007-07-31 18:17:13
70.   Andrew Shimmin
In the history of the world, only Alex Cora has ever been able to play second base.
2007-07-31 18:18:48
71.   D4P
68
Ouch.

70
Others have played second base, but they have not done so intelligently.

2007-07-31 18:19:03
72.   Bob Timmermann
Wilson is gone.

Wilson is gone.

Alea iacta est.

2007-07-31 18:25:21
73.   underdog
Icaros, game at Paul's place instead? Check your email! g/f will be gone. Bachelor party, Dodger-style!

Train, if we go again we'll let ya know. Not sure I can do it Wednesday, and Thursday is Tomkoday...

2007-07-31 18:25:24
74.   Linkmeister
Man, if Wilson Betemit's departure generates this much angst, what would it be like had Colletti traded off Loney or Kemp?

I just hope Proctor can pitch the 7th inning of games effectively.

2007-07-31 18:27:09
75.   ToyCannon
74
It all depends on the return not on who was traded. Given our rotation Proctor better be able to pitch the 5th and 6th effectively every 4th and 5th game.
2007-07-31 18:32:05
76.   D4P
To follow up on 62:

It would be one thing if a GM (e.g. Ned) were to look into "sabremetrics" and make an effort to get up to speed on all the new-fangled stats and such, and then to decide that s/he still preferred to go with "traditional" stats. (I personally don't think this would be likely, as I think the more you learn about new stats, the more compelling they become and the stupider the old stats look. But that's a separate issue).

But it's another thing to deride and ridicule new stats and the pocket-protector wearing, laptop-toting people who supposedly care about them, and to believe instead that the fact you played baseball or have been around baseball your whole life makes you inherently more qualified to evaluate players and that all you need are the traditional stats that have always been relied upon and that the stat nerds don't know anything that you don't.

That's hubris of Greek mythological proportions.

2007-07-31 18:33:13
77.   Vishal
[62] D4P is fighting the good fight.
2007-07-31 18:34:13
78.   Vaudeville Villain
The trade was awful, but I don't have much to say about it that hasn't already been said.

I do take issue with this, however:
It comes across as extreme hubris to me to think that I know better than Ned Coletti

I feel like you're really underrating your intelligence if you feel that Ned Coletti is smarter than you are.

2007-07-31 18:34:33
79.   trainwreck
I don't know if I have ever seen someone wearing a pocket-protector.
2007-07-31 18:36:24
80.   Vishal
[79] i've worn 'em on a couple occasions. my dad had some extras lying around.
2007-07-31 18:36:40
81.   Vishal
it was mostly ironic, though.
2007-07-31 18:37:25
82.   Vaudeville Villain
Ned's going to be on Fox's pre-game show thing in a minute. Trade talk.
2007-07-31 18:40:08
83.   trainwreck
I wish I stilled lived down south. I miss Prime Ticket.
2007-07-31 18:41:18
84.   bluegold
Isn't there some kind of violation of rule 8 here: Bad trade, Colletti's an idiot. Over and over, all afternoon.

Just asking.

2007-07-31 18:41:43
85.   scooplew
With apologies to Hall (not Bill) and Oates (not Johnny), for those of you upset about the trading of Betemit, here is something to salve your wounds:
He's Gone He's Gone
Oh why? Oh why?
I better learn how to face it
He's Gone He's Gone
Oh why? Oh why?
I'd pay the devil to replace him
He's Gone He's Gone
Oh why? Oh why?
What went wrong?
2007-07-31 18:42:29
86.   D4P
I wouldn't be surprised if we learn (sooner or later) something about Betemit's "bad" character, work ethic, attitude, etc. Seems like just about everyone Ned gets rid of has some kind of "issue".
2007-07-31 18:46:18
87.   ToyCannon
84
I guess if you only read every other post you might come to the conclusion that the trade doesn't have any support.
2007-07-31 18:46:55
88.   Sam DC
84 It's a big event, and it just happened today. I don't find the discussion excessive or repetitive. Also, a lot of the renewed discussion has come from folks checking in after being offline all day. Certainly, it could get overdone before too long . . .

But I think we're about 25 mins away from a whole different subject.

2007-07-31 18:48:02
89.   Vaudeville Villain
86

Nah, he was on Fox and said that Betemit had the opportunity to win the 3rd base job and he didn't. I think it's really pretty simple. Ned only looks at the traditional stats.

Interestingly, they asked him about Proctor, and he gave out a bunch of nonsense about how Proctor pitched in a major market, and then he gave the Mark Hendrickson defense. "But he played in the AL East!"

2007-07-31 18:48:07
90.   natepurcell
84

I hope Proctor returns to his 2006 form. Thats about all.

2007-07-31 18:50:51
91.   Bob Timmermann
The Yankees have hit EIGHT homers tonight.

But none by Alex Rodriguez.

The major league record for a game is 10.

2007-07-31 18:51:19
92.   Vaudeville Villain
84

Why not offer up a differing opinion, then?

2007-07-31 18:51:27
93.   trainwreck
Brett Tomko does pitch in a major market guys, we shouldn't worry about him.
2007-07-31 18:51:51
94.   regfairfield
89 Does that count less when he doesn't have to face the Yankees? Not that it helped Hendrickson, Baez, or Carter.
2007-07-31 18:52:30
95.   bluegold
87. I don't profess to have read every post, but from the ones that I have read, it just seems that the following rule is not being observed:

8) making the same point over and over again

My point is not whether there is support for the trade. It is about repetition about it being a ludicrous trade and about Colletti's IQ and competency, etc.

2007-07-31 18:53:26
96.   trainwreck
The major market idea probably also explains the Morris trade.
2007-07-31 18:54:36
97.   Vaudeville Villain
95

Dude, a lot of people, myself included, are just settling in after work. Are we only allowed to talk about things during the timeframe that you have deemed appropriate for a subject?

2007-07-31 18:55:32
98.   natepurcell
95

I'm just worried Scott Proctor is Paul Quantrill 2.0 after Torre got through with him.

2007-07-31 18:55:47
99.   bluegold
88. OK, I can accept that. I would like to add that it does not seem the best of trade, but I don't think Colletti was operating in the dark -- that is, he is not an idiot.
2007-07-31 18:57:06
100.   bluegold
97. Well...yeah...since I was appointed timeframe monitor.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-07-31 18:57:31
101.   Andrew Shimmin
95- "Over and over again," is a judgment call. We'll mark you down in the Opposed column.
2007-07-31 18:57:54
102.   dzzrtRatt
I think the thing with Betemit is this: Anyone John Schuerholz gives up on is probably not going to live up to early expectations. Whether or not I said it at the time, I thought it. "Why don't the Braves like this guy?" The only other GM with the same appropriately jaundiced eye is probably Kevin Towers.

I don't necessarily trust Colletti to go outside the numbers and come to the right conclusions. I do think Schuerholz, however, deserves a nod. He might actually have an understanding of character, work ethic, whatever.

Odalis Perez is the great example for LA fans.

It'll be interesting to see if any of the players KC or TX got for Dotel and Teixiera really pan out.

Thus, my reaction to the trade is lukewarmly positive. I look at it this way: We needed a pitcher more reliable than Seanez, Hernandez and Tomko. Proctor looks like he could be that pitcher. In order to get him, we gave up a guy I liked but didn't love, who played a position where the Dodgers are well-covered. It's not a deal to get excited about either way, but it's a logical deal, a deal with a short-term upside, but minimal long-term downside.

Until LaRoche, Loney, Kemp, etc. get fully established as major leaguers, it's going to be hard for Colletti to finish any trade, because GMs are going to insist on getting one of them as proof to their fans of their "savvy." And Colletti, bless him, has resisted all attempts to get them.

2007-07-31 18:58:10
103.   regfairfield
95 Then sway some people to your side by answering why Scott Proctor isn't just a guy who had one good season at age 29, then probably blew up his arm pitching 100 innings causing his numbers to collapse this year. Or how a relief pitcher of arguable caliber can provide any real help for 20-25 innings.

People here tend to respond to reason, but most of your rebuttals seem to consist of "I don't have to answer that, it's Ned's job".

2007-07-31 19:00:25
104.   Sam DC
Jon's off welcoming Barry Bonds to Dodger Stadium so lets not launch into a Rule War. Your point is understood bluegold, but it's not like griping about a FA signing four months after the fact or complaining day after day after day that a particular player isn't starting or isn't getting rest. It's just not.

Also, it's not like one person is saying the same thing again and again. It's just the flow of the overall discussion.

2007-07-31 19:00:27
105.   Eric Enders
Good news for those of us on Extra Innings: Tonight's game and Thursday's will be Vinny broadcasts; only tomorrow's is a Giants call.

Bad news for those of us on Extra Innings: We're going to miss the start of the game tonight because the friggin' Yankees can never finish a game in less than three and a half hours.

2007-07-31 19:02:49
106.   Hallux Valgus
Hey, I remember this old guy singing the anthem!

102 You know- one of the things that worried me about Coletti with the break approaching is that so many of the top prospects weren't picked up on his watch.

That's why dealing with the Braves worries me, (and the A's). Those front offices know their systems like nobody's business.

2007-07-31 19:03:13
107.   Curtis Lowe
97 - What do you have to do at work that is so important that you feel the need to neglect your DT commenting duties?
2007-07-31 19:03:41
108.   Hallux Valgus
106 er, deadline, not break.
2007-07-31 19:04:24
109.   dzzrtRatt
The griping about Proctor has lasted, oh, about 1/100,000,000,000,000,000th as long as the griping about Juan Pierre.

And I still enjoy the griping about Juan Pierre.

Face it, rule 8 is highly subjective. In addition, I think you're misinterpreting it. The intent is to stop ONE poster from making the same point over and over again. It's not an overall community rule.

2007-07-31 19:05:45
110.   Sam DC
104 was unneccessary and overtaken by other comments by the time I got it posted. Sorry, wasn't trying to pile on a dead horse.
2007-07-31 19:06:40
111.   natepurcell
That's why dealing with the Braves worries me, (and the A's). Those front offices know their systems like nobody's business.

the same could be said about the Dodgers player development/scouting/evaluation people. I've read numerous quotes over the past year in regards to how teams should be leery of getting dodger prospects that Logan White has OKed to let go.

2007-07-31 19:06:49
112.   trainwreck
Giants broadcast just keeps showing Chan Ho Park giving up bombs.
2007-07-31 19:08:19
113.   dzzrtRatt
pile on a dead horse is Sopranos-worthy.
2007-07-31 19:08:38
114.   trainwreck
lol they are trying to suggest that the homerun Bonds hit off Chan Ho sent the Dodgers organization into a spiral for ten seasons.
2007-07-31 19:08:50
115.   Izzy
72. I must've missed that. The part where Coletti derides and ridicules newer stats and their plastic pocketed friends. When did that happen???
2007-07-31 19:09:21
116.   Dodgers49
Kemp's been in kind of a slump since his 3-run blast on DT day. We're facing three lefty starters in the next four games so it would be nice if he would hit a couple out.
2007-07-31 19:10:23
117.   Vaudeville Villain
Let's change the subject.

Topic: Explain, in the form of a Petrarchan sonnet, why Matt Morris will make the Pirates a playoff juggernaut. Cite at least five Greek philosophers. Maybe, throw in the quadratic formula, somewhere. Please show your work.

2007-07-31 19:11:47
118.   regfairfield
115 ''Do I use VORP?" Colletti said, referring to one such sabermetric tool, Value Over Replacement Player. ''I may be using it and not even know it, and if I am, it's nobody's business. There are a lot of different criteria in judging players. I think I use, um, esoteric qualitative mathematical review times five. That's one of them."
2007-07-31 19:11:53
119.   Sam DC
113 Blushes . . . beams . . . says 'aw shucks.'
2007-07-31 19:12:16
120.   Andrew Shimmin
Can we all agree that Dave Littlefield is dumb as dirt?
2007-07-31 19:12:21
121.   nick
91 That ties a Yankee record, Bob (set against the hapless 1939 A's)---personally, and some of you may share this feeling, I'd be quite pleased if the only historic blast tonight was #8, hit by one Shelley Duncan...
2007-07-31 19:13:04
122.   Hallux Valgus
111 yeah, I get that, but Ned's got the final say, and that still scares me.

Given the fact that the prospects we've given up have yet to set the world on fire, maybe my worry is nothing more than eternal scarring from the Pedro and Konerko trades.

2007-07-31 19:13:09
123.   trainwreck
120
Yes.
2007-07-31 19:13:55
124.   Vaudeville Villain
120

Nah, dirt does some cool stuff.

2007-07-31 19:15:39
125.   Sam DC
Don Sutton tonight (paraphrased): "Guess the Pirates haven't quite given up this year. Unusual move adding salary for a team where they are."
2007-07-31 19:16:51
126.   Bob Timmermann
112
That Bonds home run off of Chan Ho Park changed the course of history more than any other single home run in baseball!

If Bonds hadn't hit that home run, the Dodgers would have started a run of 10 straight World Series championships and the people of Los Angeles would have built a succession of 50 foot golden statues of Mike Piazza that pilgrims from around the globe would come and worship at.

Fred Claire would be working on his Hall of Fame induction speech.

Rupert Murdoch would not have bought the Wall Street Journal.

People would call the former Celtic, "the other" Bill Russell.

Food would taste better.

Global warming would have reversed itself.

And I would be living in a spacious three bedroom townhouse that I bought in South Pasadena because I had bet my entire retirement savings on the Dodgers winning the 1997 World Series.

Curse you, Barry Bonds! Curse you!

2007-07-31 19:16:55
127.   Andrew Shimmin
My theory is that it's a money laundering operation. I'm not sure how it works, but I can't see any other explanation.
2007-07-31 19:17:18
128.   trainwreck
Looks like Bonds and Martin are buddies.
2007-07-31 19:17:34
129.   Hallux Valgus
120 "I'm better than dirt... Well, most kinds of dirt. Not that fancy, store-bought dirt."
2007-07-31 19:18:04
130.   Eric Enders
102 "I think the thing with Betemit is this: Anyone John Schuerholz gives up on is probably not going to live up to early expectations. Whether or not I said it at the time, I thought it. "Why don't the Braves like this guy?" The only other GM with the same appropriately jaundiced eye is probably Kevin Towers... I don't necessarily trust Colletti to go outside the numbers and come to the right conclusions. I do think Schuerholz, however, deserves a nod. He might actually have an understanding of character, work ethic, whatever. Odalis Perez is the great example for LA fans."

I'm not really buying that one. Odalis is not a great example of the Braves giving up on a player who sucked; he made an All-Star team and twice finished in the top 10 in ERA when he was with the Dodgers. Schuerholz also gave up on Jason Schmidt and Jermaine Dye, among others. I don't think he nececcarily has magic powers as far as foretelling which prospects are going to pan out.

2007-07-31 19:18:07
131.   kadycee
booooo
2007-07-31 19:18:31
132.   Sam DC
0-1.
2007-07-31 19:18:33
133.   kadycee
nice
2007-07-31 19:18:34
134.   trainwreck
Well that was quick.
2007-07-31 19:18:41
135.   Curtis Lowe
YAY!
2007-07-31 19:18:49
136.   natepurcell
That made me smile.
2007-07-31 19:19:22
137.   Sam DC
Hmmmm . . . was ESPN2 just showing that AB or are they showing this game?

There was no "look in" type covering graphic, and they went to commercial right after.

2007-07-31 19:19:28
138.   Connector
Hi everybody -
I think it's great that Penny struck out Bonds, don't you?
2007-07-31 19:20:03
139.   Curtis Lowe
128 - Probably in the same way St. Peter greets people before he notifies them of their fate in hell.
2007-07-31 19:20:15
140.   Eric Enders
126 And there would be a different entry in the Sporting News Record Book for "Longest Nine-Inning Game by Time."
2007-07-31 19:20:44
141.   Hallux Valgus
137 whole game
2007-07-31 19:20:52
142.   trainwreck
137
Showing the game.
2007-07-31 19:21:30
143.   WillieD
There's a reggae DJ who goes by the name of Uglyman. Perhaps it's that constant sunny expression on his face, however, for me that moniker sure fits B. Bonds. Do they really need to show us his frowning face so often?
2007-07-31 19:21:43
144.   Gen3Blue
Oh my God. As I struggled to try and nap while waiting for this 10:05 EST start, why did I not realize that on ESPN I was going to have to listen to Joe Morgan as well as deal with BBs disgusting quest.
I don't know how long Morgans voice has represented a negative "homer" type presence that has seemed to mean insult and injury in broadcasts involving the Dodgers.
2007-07-31 19:22:13
145.   Sam DC
Wow. Bedtime nevermind.
2007-07-31 19:22:31
146.   Gen3Blue
11 Gold gloves! That means he's ancient.
2007-07-31 19:23:11
147.   Eric Enders
144 Do you mean "homer" in the "biased toward the Giants" sense, or in the "last day of the 1982 season" sense?
2007-07-31 19:23:50
148.   Izzy
118. That does sound like a little jab, although I'd never heard anything like it from him. Actually, not using newer statistics is alot like trying to look cool in a your underwear. Sooner or later, he will get it, and even is getting it. Then again, some stat heads, um
2007-07-31 19:24:08
149.   Vaudeville Villain
The rabbits are loose!
2007-07-31 19:24:44
150.   Bob Timmermann
Note to Mr. Lowry:

That guy usually swings at pitches close to the plate.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-07-31 19:27:55
151.   trainwreck
Blows past him with the heat.
2007-07-31 19:29:20
152.   Curtis Lowe
Nomar looks to be swining with more authority lately.
2007-07-31 19:30:23
153.   trainwreck
Wow, Nomar showing the patience.
2007-07-31 19:31:06
154.   KG16
126 - yes, that is exactly what would have happened, but you forgot the part about Eric Karros becoming a sure bet first ballot Hall of Famer because of his October magic.
2007-07-31 19:31:27
155.   Hallux Valgus
Pierre and Nomar both drawing walks? That's unpossible! I choose to give credit to Bill Mueller
2007-07-31 19:32:03
156.   Connector
Lowry's control is missing. That's good news!
2007-07-31 19:32:38
157.   Hallux Valgus
dang it.
2007-07-31 19:33:10
158.   Vaudeville Villain
When we load the bases, I resign myself to the fact that we probably won't score.
2007-07-31 19:33:14
159.   Curtis Lowe
Tex woulda laid off that.

j/k

2007-07-31 19:33:42
160.   Gen3Blue
Yesss! By some instinct I looked through DTV's channels and Found the game with Vin!
I don't have to listen to Joe!!!!
2007-07-31 19:35:13
161.   Sam DC
So do I have Vin on gameday audio because Joe and Erin and whoever are doing the tv game. Or how/why am I so blessed.

Though the audio is about 30 secs behind the teevee.

2007-07-31 19:35:14
162.   Louis in SF
I live in SF and have MLB EXTRA INNINGS, but unfortunately can't get anything other than the Giants homers.
2007-07-31 19:35:18
163.   ucladodger
Noah Lowry is one of those pitchers you watch and say : "How in the world does he not get hammered every game".
2007-07-31 19:39:56
164.   Bob Timmermann
163
Lowry has inherited the Kirk Rueter Honorary Chair for Soft Tossing Lefties.
2007-07-31 19:40:30
165.   Hallux Valgus
Did Vin just say there was a lot of interest in Matt? Matt Morris?
2007-07-31 19:40:48
166.   Gen3Blue
Praise the Hoove! Try and find at least an audio of Vin. It can make whatever happens at least somewhat bearable.
2007-07-31 19:40:49
167.   Bob Timmermann
There have been three walks in the game and they are by the unlikeliest three players among the 16 non-pitchers.
2007-07-31 19:44:18
168.   Andrew Shimmin
Somebody over at Where Have You Gone Andy Van Slyke wonders if the PTBNL in the Morris deal might be Jack Wilson. That would be a little exculpatory.

Unrelated: Jack Wilson's agent is called Page Odle.

2007-07-31 19:44:27
169.   Bob Timmermann
165
Matt Morris is a wily veteran and he can often baffle lineups full of inexperienced hitters.

That's what Peter Gammons said in 2004.

2007-07-31 19:45:07
170.   Sam DC
Guillermo Mota bears the weight of Glavine's push for 300. He comes in bottom 8 at Miller Park w/runners on 1st and 2d, one out, one run lead, v. Bill Hall.
2007-07-31 19:45:13
171.   Andrew Shimmin
168- Oh, but it can't be, right? Because they play in the same league, and that's against the PTBNL rules? Or am I misremembering that?
2007-07-31 19:45:14
172.   Bob Timmermann
No win #300 for Tom Glavine tonight as Heilman, Feliciano, and Mota cough up the lead in the 8th.
2007-07-31 19:46:17
173.   Marty
164 Without the Dumbo-sized ears.
2007-07-31 19:46:51
174.   Sam DC
Like Bob said.
2007-07-31 19:47:47
175.   trainwreck
Ok, now I like Lucille II even less for coming out to "Magic Stick".
2007-07-31 19:49:05
176.   Hallux Valgus
169 Then I guess a lot of the interest was coming from the low minor leagues. That makes more sense.
2007-07-31 19:52:14
177.   NorCal-Dodger
Ok, Raffy
2007-07-31 19:52:37
178.   Curtis Lowe
Furkie gets freakie.
2007-07-31 19:52:39
179.   Disabled List
Dunno if this was mentioned in the last thread, but what number is Gagne gonna wear in Boston? Schilling won't give up #38, he's got his blog to think about.
2007-07-31 19:52:47
180.   Hallux Valgus
170 I guess Mota needs to get stronger to handle that weight. I know a guy who could help him out...
2007-07-31 19:53:06
181.   WillieD
Nice throw from left. Yeah!
2007-07-31 19:53:19
182.   Bob Timmermann
174
I am on the strangely caching browser now.
2007-07-31 19:53:30
183.   NorCal-Dodger
Bonds arm looks the same...that throw would not have caught Sid Bream either.
2007-07-31 19:55:17
184.   Gen3Blue
JP beaten by an eyelash. How many times have I heard that this year.
2007-07-31 19:55:33
185.   Sam in SC
cb bucknor is the umpire at first. no good can come from this. no good can come from him being in this series, in fact.
2007-07-31 19:56:06
186.   Bluebleeder87
It's been very rear this year when Furcal comes thrue in the "clutch" it's a nice thing to see.
2007-07-31 19:59:38
187.   King of the Hobos
168 If I understand PTBNLs correctly, they can't be of the same level as the player they're traded for, so the PTBNL would be a minor leaguer. However, I'm sure Wilson would pass through waivers, although knowing the Pirates, he's going to stay there.
2007-07-31 20:01:09
188.   Connector
One of the strange flukes I experience with watching the game on MLB.TV is that the game is streamed in 10-13 seconds later than Gameday. So when Gameday writes "in play, run(s)" there's an agonizing wait before I find out what happened.
2007-07-31 20:01:41
189.   Hallux Valgus
168 187

here are two rules to a PTBNL transaction. The deal must close within a six-month timeframe following the conclusion of the rest of the trade, and the player must change leagues. Because of these two rules there have been some interesting circumstances. In 1962, when Harry Chiti was traded by the New York Mets to the Cleveland Indians for a PTBNL, and the teams could not agree on a final deal within the six-month timeframe, the PTBNL was, oddly enough, Harry Chiti. The New York Mets traded him back to Cleveland for himself, in essence to negate the trade altogether with neither side losing or gaining anything. Another interesting circumstance involves the second rule: players must change leagues. Generally to work around this rule minor leaguers are chosen, and thus very few PTBNLs are of star quality. However, some minor league PTBNLs who have turned out to be productive in the majors include Jeremy Bonderman, Scott Podsednik, Coco Crisp, Moises Alou, Jason Schmidt, and David Ortiz."

2007-07-31 20:02:50
190.   Bluebleeder87
Nice chest move by Grady
2007-07-31 20:03:14
191.   kadycee
I kind of wanted to see Penny pitch to Bonds again...
2007-07-31 20:03:15
192.   Hallux Valgus
boo, walk!
2007-07-31 20:03:17
193.   Connector
Vin is so funny..."hark, Bonds approacheth."
2007-07-31 20:03:46
194.   Hallux Valgus
never mind. Yay, walk!
2007-07-31 20:03:59
195.   kadycee
but I'd rather see a double play
2007-07-31 20:04:11
196.   The Mootz
It'd be a shame if Barry got injured breaking up the double play.

Don't see it happening.

2007-07-31 20:04:38
197.   Robert Daeley
Darn.

"Derek Lowe's Wednesday bullpen test of his injured left hip took on greater significance Tuesday with news that disabled starter Randy Wolf will be out at least another month, and possibly the rest of the year, with continued shoulder problems.

"Wolf had another MRI Tuesday that revealed capsulitis in the same shoulder that was diagnosed a month ago with bursitis. There were no tears of the rotator cuff or labrum. Wolf was told by Dr. Lewis Yocum and Dr. Neal ElAttrache that the condition should respond to medication, strengthening and stretching exercises."

http://tinyurl.com/yohrhg

2007-07-31 20:05:10
198.   Bluebleeder87
DP, how can you boo that {192} unless it was a sarcastic boo then i understand. :o)
2007-07-31 20:05:55
199.   Robert Daeley
Oh and on the same story:

Delwyn Young was promoted to take Wilson Betemit's spot on the bench and general manager Ned Colletti said that third baseman Andy LaRoche, who is on a home run tear, has the front office taking notice.

"He's pretty close to earning his way up," Colletti said of LaRoche. "We feel he's on the verge. Whether when he comes up and plays full-time, that's not my decision."

2007-07-31 20:06:02
200.   Hallux Valgus
197 Don't worry about it, we've got Scott Proctor.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-07-31 20:06:35
201.   trainwreck
197
Laaame!
2007-07-31 20:10:46
202.   trainwreck
199
Well that is good.
2007-07-31 20:11:01
203.   Hallux Valgus
198 I took it back, jeez :-)

Actually, I'm not one to boo, but I want to see the Dodgers pitch to Bonds. Frankly, I want to see him hit 756 on Thursday. Like I said before- I am selfish and would like to say I witnessed history. Until A-Rod breaks Bonds record, I can watch the replay and say I was there when...

Of course, I still want the Dodgers to win. Hence the hindsight yay!

2007-07-31 20:12:44
204.   Bluebleeder87
but I want to see the Dodgers pitch to Bonds

very true, but if the situation calls for a walk why not walk 'em right.

2007-07-31 20:13:49
205.   kadycee
203. Me too. I was there September 18 last year and I'd like to have another once in a lifetime moment this season.

Though I'm really only going for the Martin bobblehead.

2007-07-31 20:14:35
206.   Retire 55
One pitch out by Nomar.

FREE ANDY LAROCHE

2007-07-31 20:18:53
207.   Disabled List
I don't want Barry to break the record at Dodger Stadium, only because I fear the reaction. Booing would be the mildest. I don't want to think what the worst would be. Whatever happened, it would be memorialized on TV for eternity.

My expectations for classy behavior from some Dodger fans in recent years has been lowered almost to the point of non-existence.

2007-07-31 20:20:21
208.   ToyCannon
So no one thought it was strange that Vinny would talk about a level playing field and then give Ruth 3000 more ab's without mentioning he did it pre-1947? I mean if were going to talk about level playing field lets talk about level playing field.
2007-07-31 20:20:36
209.   Robert Daeley
From a Yankee fan who wasn't enamored with the deal today:

"Speaking of the Dodgers their VP and GM Kim NG use to work for Cashman in the NYYs. She was on the team that put together to get the players who brought us 4 rings. She left went to Chicago, did the same for the White Soxs. Where is she now, LA doing it for the Dodgers. I am beginning to think she was the brains and Cashman was the money guy. Don't be surprised if the Dodgers go the distance while she is there. Maybe we should have traded the Dodgers Cashman for her."

2007-07-31 20:22:06
210.   Retire 55
I love watching Loney hit
2007-07-31 20:22:17
211.   Hallux Valgus
207 well I can agree with the second part. But I don't think the rest of the country holds dodger fans in very high regard in general (honestly, I have a hard time thinking very highly of most of them), so it really doesn't bother me. Plus, the selfish thing.
2007-07-31 20:24:30
212.   ucladodger
is it me, or does Kemp get thrown inordinately tough pitches and doesnt get any help from the home plate umpire?
2007-07-31 20:25:00
213.   Hallux Valgus
205 My favorite live Dodger moments are 2:
Martin's walk off GS.

Orel Hershiser throwing a 35 foot pitch. It was the only time I've ever hard 45,000 chuckle simultaneously.

Also, I want my BobbleRuss. Actually, I have an extra ticket, so I want 2.

2007-07-31 20:28:07
214.   kadycee
211. That's because they think we don't know anything about baseball and aren't passionate about the game. In my experience, most people are wrong about Dodger fans--in that regard at least.
2007-07-31 20:28:43
215.   Bluebleeder87
209

It's a Yankee fan it's like me praising Dan Evans.

2007-07-31 20:30:08
216.   Gen3Blue
212 Somehow, I think that is the other side of saying Kemp needs to get some regular playing time, and eventually will start to do well.
2007-07-31 20:33:32
217.   Gen3Blue
Vin just called Penny Barry Bonds!
2007-07-31 20:33:40
218.   Bluebleeder87
man, Brad Penny is having one of those years with the bat isn't he.
2007-07-31 20:34:41
219.   kadycee
213. I'd have to add seeing Gagne pitch about 8 times during his streak. I love that man always.
2007-07-31 20:35:16
220.   kadycee
217. I thought I heard wrong. I was confused for a second...
2007-07-31 20:37:22
221.   Bluebleeder87
"They have hand cuffs on Pierre" classic Vinnie.
2007-07-31 20:37:59
222.   Gen3Blue
Bad pitch coaching IMO.
2007-07-31 20:39:21
223.   Gen3Blue
220 I had to take a second to see what color the uniforms were.
2007-07-31 20:39:28
224.   NorCal-Dodger
Ok..make them pay! LuGo
2007-07-31 20:39:39
225.   Hallux Valgus
211 I think the national perspective is "come in the 3rd, leave in the seventh."

My perspective is (and I only moved back to LA 2 years ago):
1) At a Giants game last year, the guy in front of me was the loudest Dodger supporter in our section. He was screaming and booing and "Barry Sucks-ing" starting before the game. Then he spent the entire game asking me who our players were.
"Who's the first baseman?"
"Um, Nomar Garciaparra."
"He's not in Boston any more?"
He honestly had no clue, but he was a passionate fan, I guess

2) At every game I've gone to, Dodger fans seem to boo opposing fans. Not so much the other team, or bad Dodgers- the other fans. Watch next time you go to a (non-Giants or Padres) game- something good will happen for the other team, their scattered fans will cheer, and only then will the Dodger fans boo. It's frustrating, unnecessary, and annoying. I know this happened at DT day. I mentioned it aloud.

2007-07-31 20:40:36
226.   Gen3Blue
What an insult to Gonzalez.
2007-07-31 20:40:40
227.   Hallux Valgus
er, 214
2007-07-31 20:41:46
228.   Bob Timmermann
After attending the SABR convention both this year and in previous years, I can tell you that Dodgers fans are held in very low esteem by people on the East Coast and in the Midwest.
2007-07-31 20:42:04
229.   kadycee
225. Maybe that's changing now that the McCourt has figured out the parking thing. You can actually get in before the game ends and home before the next one begins.
2007-07-31 20:43:42
230.   kadycee
225. By the way, the rest of what you say is often sadly true...and depressing somehow
2007-07-31 20:43:50
231.   Bluebleeder87
It looks like standing room only at Dodger Stadium too, wow.
2007-07-31 20:44:19
232.   Bob Timmermann
One of the games I attended in St. Louis, I got tickets through a Milwaukee Brewers connection. I asked one of the Brewers fans near me when Kevin Mench was batting, "Mench doesn't walk much."

He replied, "We have a saying about Kevin Mench. It's 'Kevin Mench doesn't walk much.' We're not very original in Milwaukee."

2007-07-31 20:49:17
233.   Hallux Valgus
229 I honestly don't think it'll change. We had a short discussion about this on Jackie Robinson Day when the stands were barren for the ceremony. The perspective is largely ingrained in the general public.

Also, I know Rockie fans aren't pleased with Dodger fans because:
A: There are generally more of them at Coors Field
B: In the first Dodger series at Mile High Stadium, there was an on field fight involving Darryl Strawberry, as I recall, and then almost another fight the next day.

Those are okay reasons not to like us, I suppose.

232 That was hilarious.

2007-07-31 20:50:14
234.   trainwreck
So weak.
2007-07-31 20:51:01
235.   kadycee
228. Sure some aren't just jealous 'cause the sun is always shining and we have the most beautiful ballpark in baseball? Of course, as a Dodger fan, I'm biased. Naturally, I don't think of myself as philistine.
2007-07-31 20:54:01
236.   kadycee
233. So there are a lot of Dodger fans in Colorado? Thought the crowd seemed very supportive there.
2007-07-31 20:54:46
237.   kadycee
232. lol
2007-07-31 20:55:05
238.   Bluebleeder87
Noah Lowry is one of those pitchers you watch and say : "How in the world does he not get hammered every game".

all of a sudden he's winning 3-1 in the 6th!

2007-07-31 20:57:50
239.   kadycee
thank goodness that's over.
2007-07-31 20:58:49
240.   preacherroe
Maybe I missed it ,but does Nate Purcell or someone know why Kershaw got pulled in the second inning last night? Also what has become of Xaviar Paul?
Comment : Someone in the Delwyn Young thread
said Young was a terrible second baseman. I beg to differ. I saw him play a few games at second
in AA and he didn't look that bad other than having somewhat limited range. The boy can flat out mash.
2007-07-31 20:59:32
241.   Bob Timmermann
I was also told at the SABR convention that L.A. is not a sports town (because we have no NFL team) and you will find a lot of Cubs fans once you cross over the Mississippi and go to Illinois.
2007-07-31 20:59:56
242.   Bluebleeder87
236

there's a lot of Dodger caps when you watch on t.v.

2007-07-31 21:00:04
243.   still bevens
213 Just spin it. Get there early, use your one ticket to enter the stadium from another level (preferably one close to where your seat is), go back to your car and drop off your prize, then go back to your original seat with bobblehead #2.
2007-07-31 21:00:55
244.   Hallux Valgus
233 Oh my, no. I lived there from for 89-95. There were a lot of SoCal expats, a lot of Cubs fans, and a lot of Red Sox/ Yankees front runner fans. The Rockies crowd is largely apathetic.

I loved going to games at Coors, because (after I gave up season tickets) I could park for $3 and pick up a scalped field level ticket for $10 at any game that didn't involve the above teams or fireworks.

2007-07-31 21:01:47
245.   kadycee
241. Cubs fans are so nice. And well dressed. I can always spot them at Dodger games. Lots of khakis and polos and wire rim glasses.
2007-07-31 21:02:38
246.   trainwreck
240
He was only scheduled to pitch one inning.
2007-07-31 21:03:37
247.   kadycee
242. Actually, I have a friend in Colorado Springs (from L.A.) and almost every person I met there was a So Cal transplant. So I guess it follows.
2007-07-31 21:06:29
248.   Bluebleeder87
Nice at bat by Kemp he wen't from 0 & 2 to an eventual walk, very nice.
2007-07-31 21:07:25
249.   NorCal-Dodger
Tomato?
2007-07-31 21:07:33
250.   Hallux Valgus
247 A lot of the Springs consists of defense contractors and evangelicals who've moved from Orange County. But the point stands. Hell- we had season tickets for 10 years (my previous statement should've read 89-05, not 95) with 7 other families. 4 of them were from SoCal, 2 of them were Cubs fans, and 1 was a Braves fan.

Note the reach of the Superstations WGN and TBS.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-07-31 21:08:06
251.   trainwreck
No, let Penny hit instead of Saenz.
2007-07-31 21:08:49
252.   Marty
Colorado Springs is where my mother's side of the family is from. They came out to L.A. in 1918 "for the air"
2007-07-31 21:08:55
253.   Bluebleeder87
at this point I trust Penny with the bat more so then I trust the Tomato.
2007-07-31 21:09:06
254.   Gen3Blue
The D's offense has had terrible luck, but it will turn. Penny with five walks, most of them inexcusable, could well lose. Penny should have batted against Lowry, but both are gone.
2007-07-31 21:09:39
255.   Xeifrank
Quality start for Penny. 6IPs, 3ER, 6Hits and 5Walks. Gotta love the QS.
vr, Xei
2007-07-31 21:10:57
256.   Im So Blue
From tomorrow's New York Times, Legendary Voice Will Let Fans Do Call on Bonds

When Hank Aaron broke the career home run record 33 years ago, Vin Scully made a call that evoked race, history and the American experience.

When Barry Bonds breaks the career home run record, Scully would prefer if he did not have to say anything at all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/01/sports/baseball/01scully.html?_r=1&ref=baseball&oref=slogin

2007-07-31 21:11:58
257.   Eric Enders
I get subjected to Rockies announcers a lot. They are total Dodger homers. That would be really annoying to me if I were a Rockies fan, but I guess they're just playing to their audience since there are a heck of a lot of Dodger fans in Denver.
2007-07-31 21:13:10
258.   Bluebleeder87
uuuhhh!! that was your pitch Saenz, just missed it.
2007-07-31 21:13:30
259.   trainwreck
Steve Kline insulting fans who are no doubt talking crap about him.
2007-07-31 21:13:50
260.   Xeifrank
Too close to let go.
vr, Xei
2007-07-31 21:14:12
261.   trainwreck
I think I could strike out Saenz.
2007-07-31 21:14:14
262.   NorCal-Dodger
258 Saenz been missing those pitches much too often.
2007-07-31 21:14:49
263.   Retire 55
As if it's the least bit surprising that a guy who can't get around on a major league fastball anymore gets punched out.

Fire the manager

2007-07-31 21:14:49
264.   kadycee
252. Well, that makes sense since there is no air in Colorado. I was happy get home where I could see the stuff again.
2007-07-31 21:15:03
265.   max power
Olmedo figured one hit for the month of July was enough...
2007-07-31 21:15:43
266.   Bluebleeder87
262

He was so money last year though, oh well.

2007-07-31 21:15:45
267.   dzzrtRatt
Saenz '07 is starting to make me forget Saenz '06 (and '05). Rats.
2007-07-31 21:15:50
268.   NorCal-Dodger
Is D. Young already up here?
2007-07-31 21:15:59
269.   Hallux Valgus
257 weird. My mother doesn't hate much, but she's hated 3 announcers in her lifetime- Ross Porter, Al Michaels, and Rockies announcer Jack Corrigan.
2007-07-31 21:16:18
270.   kadycee
256. Good move by Vin. Of course.
2007-07-31 21:16:24
271.   Sam DC
There's a little bit of Timmermann in this one (from Soul of Baseball): http://tinyurl.com/2bte77
2007-07-31 21:17:23
272.   Bluebleeder87
265

I was at the game were he ended it in the 10th against the Blue Jays so he still has points in my book.

2007-07-31 21:17:24
273.   Gen3Blue
I bet Penny is glad to be out of there. Two teams with out much hope. But think how good the D's could be next year, and how bad the Giants could be. I'm so glad I don't have to listen to Joe Morgans drivel.
2007-07-31 21:17:57
274.   natepurcell
Dodgers seem to be officially in a funk. I hope we don't far too far behind first place before we get out of it.
2007-07-31 21:18:25
275.   JoeyP
Saenz cant hit right handers.
2007-07-31 21:18:25
276.   DadofMondy
Did anyone notice the bunt by Lowry, with runnersthat Penny dropped on purpose? I am fairly certain that the umps got it wrong. #1--it was not an infield fly, as it was a bunt, per 2.00. #2--according to 6.05(l), the ball is only dead on an intentionally dropped fly ball or line drive. By definition, a bunt is neither one of these.

What am I missing?

2007-07-31 21:19:35
277.   Hallux Valgus
Comebacker Beimel does it again.
2007-07-31 21:19:37
278.   DadofMondy
to clarify, rule 6.05(l) says the ball is dead AND the batter is out.
2007-07-31 21:19:44
279.   NorCal-Dodger
Beimel, is really quite the combacker specialist
2007-07-31 21:19:46
280.   Marty
276 I think they ruled that he had the ball long enough to still call it an out.
2007-07-31 21:20:25
281.   Xeifrank
ESPN not breaking in.
vr, Xei
2007-07-31 21:20:28
282.   regfairfield
Odds that Beimel regresses to the mean against Bonds?
2007-07-31 21:21:12
283.   Hallux Valgus
I've gone on record calling Bonds off Beimel for 756. I don't want 755 to come right now though.
2007-07-31 21:21:47
284.   Hallux Valgus
281 check ESPN2
2007-07-31 21:22:19
285.   kadycee
Uh...Raffy...?
2007-07-31 21:22:22
286.   Hallux Valgus
oh my. Where was LuGo???? That was his play.
2007-07-31 21:22:34
287.   Xeifrank
wow, that looked like a disaster from the get go. 2B catching a popup in left center field?
vr, Xei
2007-07-31 21:23:13
288.   Xeifrank
284. They were showing a Joe Paterno special on my espn2.
vr, Xei
2007-07-31 21:23:37
289.   Bob Timmermann
Actually, it was the shortstop running into left center field. He just started from second base!
2007-07-31 21:24:00
290.   trainwreck
Beimel should not try that again.
2007-07-31 21:24:14
291.   Bob Timmermann
286
Furcal called off Gonzalez. It was not one of his better ideas.
2007-07-31 21:24:16
292.   DadofMondy
I always hated it when infielders would come out and insist on taking a fly ball from me, in the outfield. Truly inexplicable, and the coaches I had NEVER said anything to them about it. I've hated some SS I've played with for being so "enthusiastic". The play's way easier for an OF, assuming your normal can of corn.
2007-07-31 21:24:40
293.   kadycee
Why doesn't Beimel get his own pants and stop borrowing Broxton's?
2007-07-31 21:24:47
294.   somar58
274. They are in a funk because the players finally realized they only have 1 good pitcher on the team and he just got pulled out of the game.
2007-07-31 21:25:53
295.   Bob Timmermann
Gonzalez did appear to be running in from the warning track on that pop up by Bonds.
2007-07-31 21:25:55
296.   DadofMondy
How do you quote other people's comments, BTW? #280--that makes sense; it's hard to tell from the umpire's mechanics.
2007-07-31 21:26:33
297.   Hallux Valgus
288 crazy. My ESPN2 is blacked out because the game is on Fox Sports. You know, home run record against a hated rival and all.

But yeah- go with Paterno. That's timely.

2007-07-31 21:27:20
298.   King of the Hobos
296

Brackets, such as [ 296 ] without the spaces

2007-07-31 21:28:20
299.   DadofMondy
298 thanks
2007-07-31 21:28:21
300.   Hallux Valgus
291 That should be LuGo's ball to call off, though.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-07-31 21:28:53
301.   Bob Timmermann
296
You quote comments by cutting and pasting. There's no double secret reply function that we're hiding from you.

Well, there's a triple secret one that I will tell you if you send me a check, payable to "Cash" for $100.

2007-07-31 21:29:46
302.   Xeifrank
297. perhaps, I'm not considered the LA market? Maybe the Pleasant Valley market? who knows.
vr, Xei
2007-07-31 21:30:09
303.   Bob Timmermann
The Brewers win and hold on the lead in the NL Central.
2007-07-31 21:31:12
304.   PDH5204
292 Next time, run the infielder over. That ought to do the trick. In the usual circumstance it was Gonzo's ball all the way as he's coming in while Furcal is going out. So much of our veteran leadership exerting its presence [though my true belief is that Gonzo started from so far back (Ventura County) that he had no chance of making the play)].
2007-07-31 21:31:21
305.   Xeifrank
17.8% win expectancy, and that's not taking into consideration that Pierre is up.
vr, Xei
2007-07-31 21:32:03
306.   Xeifrank
304. I gave him a push!
vr, Xei
2007-07-31 21:33:04
307.   Gen3Blue
I agree that the D's can't win with 1 or 2 starting pitchers, but I am relieved that they didn't trade the future for them. Pitching is so ephemeral that their opponents could just as easily fall apart, and I think the D's are in a good position to develop more pitching, which is about the only path to success. Its too bad about this year, especially Schmidt.
2007-07-31 21:33:05
308.   Eric Enders
301 Somebody should do a "Who's on First" type of skit with Johnny Cash trying to deposit a check at the bank. "But you can't deposit it, it's made out to Cash!"
2007-07-31 21:33:35
309.   Bluebleeder87
I wanna see the Bison™ hit one out.
2007-07-31 21:37:12
310.   still bevens
I was on the phone, but it appeared to me that a majority of the called strikes on Pierre were the exact opposite.
2007-07-31 21:37:47
311.   Hallux Valgus
308 I fully support this. Especially if someone can include a David Sacagewea and Susan BuffaloNickel.
2007-07-31 21:37:50
312.   Sam DC
Thursday Night is the first promotion dedicated to Washington Baseball history that I know of in DC since the ExpoNats moved in. It is the 100th anniversary of Walter Johnson's first game for the Sens. They will wear Senators caps and his daughter will attend.

Friday night is Negro Leagues tribute night and the Nationals and Cardinals will both wear NL jerseys. Josh Gibson's grandson, I believe, will attend and throw out the first pitch.

The new stadium will have statutes of Johnson, Gibson, and Frank Howard out front.

And this is the first major piece on Johnson to run in the Post since baseball returned to DC, at least as far as I recall. It's a good article, with a lot of color from Johnson's first game, including Ty Cobb's reaction to the rookie. http://tinyurl.com/yr87p2

I hope they find a way to honor montreal too, but these are good steps for the Nationals to take I think.

2007-07-31 21:39:12
313.   Bluebleeder87
It's a darn shame Benitez isn't with the Giants anymore, so who closes for them these days?
2007-07-31 21:43:45
314.   kadycee
grrrrr
2007-07-31 21:47:06
315.   Bluebleeder87
314

if anything at least the run didn't score.

2007-07-31 21:48:24
316.   PDH5204
313 Brad Hennessey.
2007-07-31 21:49:36
317.   DadofMondy
301 ah, but how do they come out in bold, pray tell?
2007-07-31 21:49:38
318.   kadycee
315. I was worried there for a minute, watching Nomar
2007-07-31 21:50:13
319.   Bluebleeder87
any chance Jon is sitting in the LF pavilion or the all you can eat?
2007-07-31 21:50:49
320.   kadycee
Who knew Jeff Kent would be our superstar? I miss him.
2007-07-31 21:51:11
321.   kadycee
Seems like they just want to get home and watch Letterman.
2007-07-31 21:51:20
322.   somar58
307 What is the future? In L.A. you can't keep waiting for the future for too long. Fans want to win now! There is a fine line as to when you can hold on to potential or trading for proven players.
2007-07-31 21:52:38
323.   Bob Timmermann
312
To really get into the spirit of the centennial of the Big Train's major league debut, the Nats should lose just like they did back in 1907.
2007-07-31 21:54:27
324.   still bevens
307 I'm really bummed about Elbert. If he was still in commission he would have been a callup option this year with all these injuries. Would have been nice to at least see what he could have done given the opportunity.
2007-07-31 21:54:51
325.   Hallux Valgus
321 looks that way. Based on the game, I'm of that persuasion as well.
2007-07-31 21:57:49
326.   kadycee
This team is losing games it should win easily. Is it hoodoo? Voodoo? A collective malaise? Baseball teams are so weird.
2007-07-31 21:57:50
327.   immouch
hernandez spent the first few years of his big league career making bronze. if proctor ushers hernandez into retirement, i'm in favor of today's trade.
2007-07-31 21:57:58
328.   Vishal
i officially hate randy winn.
2007-07-31 21:58:00
329.   trainwreck
Roberto Hernandez is like our own white flag.
2007-07-31 21:58:15
330.   Bluebleeder87
DFA R. Hernandez already!
2007-07-31 21:59:46
331.   dzzrtRatt
327 who else could it be? Hernandez is the most likely candidate to be dumped. He can't pitch, which places him slightly ahead of Seanez, Tomko and Hendrickson.
2007-07-31 21:59:53
332.   kadycee
327. agreed. This guy totally demoralizes me.
2007-07-31 22:00:21
333.   Bluebleeder87
{328}

I'd bean him tomorrow & pretend I didn't do it on purpose.

2007-07-31 22:01:15
334.   Hallux Valgus
even down 3-1, I don't like Hernandez
2007-07-31 22:01:40
335.   trainwreck
Giants announcers won't shut up about that ridiculous Plaschke article. It is complete garbage!!!
2007-07-31 22:02:01
336.   kadycee
329. Used to be Tomko. We have too many "white flags" on the pitching staff at the moment. I'm all for Proctor if he can usher in a little hope...please...
2007-07-31 22:02:52
337.   immouch
we are down by a whopping two runs. yet we've put the B-team on the mound. an 800-mph out!
2007-07-31 22:02:53
338.   Hallux Valgus
335 doesn't that go for pretty much any Plaschke article?
2007-07-31 22:03:47
339.   King of the Hobos
Hull in the pen, so it's good to know he's not at the airport.
2007-07-31 22:05:06
340.   immouch
here's another story about bonds. kinda interesting... http://www.ocregister.com/life/barry-bonds-steroids-1789096-baseball-homerun
2007-07-31 22:05:24
341.   kadycee
nice, Nomar
2007-07-31 22:05:30
342.   Hallux Valgus
what's Hunnycutt going to tell a guy who's almost as old as Honeycutt? Stop walking dudes?

well okay then.

2007-07-31 22:06:16
343.   Bluebleeder87
hopefully the Dodgers make it interesting in this up coming inning
2007-07-31 22:06:24
344.   kadycee
338. YES
2007-07-31 22:07:07
345.   twerp
If this team makes the playoffs, it's unlikely to advance if it doesn't field much better.

Some of these senseless errors are going to bite--hard--at a bad time...

2007-07-31 22:08:31
346.   Bob Timmermann
335
If Barry Bonds hadn't homered off of Chan Ho Park back in 1997, there would be no crime in Los Angeles.

We'd all be too caught up in the 10 straight World Series championships.

Eric Karros would never have to buy a meal for himself in this town.

2007-07-31 22:09:08
347.   Hallux Valgus
alright Kemp- it's your time.
2007-07-31 22:09:41
348.   Hallux Valgus
wrong time.
2007-07-31 22:11:20
349.   ucladodger
Again, nothing really there for Kemp to hit.
2007-07-31 22:11:25
350.   Bluebleeder87
345

our up the middle D:

Russell Martin (good & will get better, 9 errors so far this year not good)

Kent (Old with no range)

Furcal (has played well even though he has a bad knee)

Pierre (he's playing o.k. CF, I guess?)

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-07-31 22:11:33
351.   trainwreck
If Bonds did not that home run, police would have gone back in time and prevented the Rodney King beating and saved Nichole Brown Simpson.
2007-07-31 22:11:57
352.   Woden325
257.
That's not the impression I get listening to KOA. They're (particularly Jeff Kingery) Rockies homers. Which is fine with me, having become a (long-suffering) Rockies fan by osmosis.
And Jack Corrigan is vastly less annoying than his predecessor, Wayne Hagan.
2007-07-31 22:12:47
353.   Bluebleeder87
Noah Lowry basically put the Dodger offense to sleep with his offspeed stuff.
2007-07-31 22:12:59
354.   kadycee
346 If only I'd realized that -- I could have been wracked with regret and longing all these years. Instead, I lived in blissful stupidity. Oh well.
2007-07-31 22:13:36
355.   Hallux Valgus
350 Furcal has a bad ankle, but I get it.
2007-07-31 22:14:11
356.   kadycee
Stupid loss.
2007-07-31 22:14:16
357.   immouch
why does it seem the dodgers lost this game in the second inning or so... it's one thing to not hit. it's another to not even be able to envision hitting....
2007-07-31 22:14:41
358.   Bluebleeder87
very surprised Russell had that many errors.
2007-07-31 22:14:51
359.   Eric Enders
352 Yeah, although I didn't say so I was really talking about their TV announcers, Goodman and Frazier.

I guess Frazier liked the Dodgers so much that he decided to lose 3 games to them in one World Series.

2007-07-31 22:15:08
360.   oswald
346 i heart bob timmerman. there, i said it.
2007-07-31 22:16:32
361.   Bob Timmermann
359
George Frazier's favorite player of all time was Lefty Williams.
2007-07-31 22:16:35
362.   kadycee
Kennedy is blaming this loss on Bonds. Barry's quite the hobgoblin, isn't he?
2007-07-31 22:16:56
363.   Hallux Valgus
352 I loved Wayne Hagan. I hate Corrigan. Hell, Hagin went to the Cardinals. Corrigan is stuck with the Rockies. Hagin got the better deal, regardless.
2007-07-31 22:17:10
364.   imperabo
Man, is it possible to unwatch that game?
2007-07-31 22:18:38
365.   kadycee
364. LOL. I wish. There's a lot of un-watching I'd do, as a matter of fact. Going back to the '70s.
2007-07-31 22:18:55
366.   Bluebleeder87
Tomko tomorrow will have me at the edge of my seat. 355 guess i don't know body parts all that well. :o) Good night peepz, late.
2007-07-31 22:19:51
367.   kadycee
366 I think it's Hendrickson tomorrow, Tomko Thursday (when I'm there). Not that it matters, really.
2007-07-31 22:20:20
368.   Hallux Valgus
359 Their TV announcers are awful. I forgot that included Drew Goodman, who was crappy as a high school football announcer. I really hate Drew Goodman.
2007-07-31 22:22:10
369.   Woden325
359. Oh, those guys. I don't like them.

361. heh.

Anyhow, I found it amusing that the radio guys that took over for Vin Scully were blaming the Dodger's bad performance in Denver on the infield grass. Hint: if you hit line drives or fly balls, the grass isn't an issue.

(and I still can't figure out how to make a clicky link)

2007-07-31 22:24:01
370.   Hallux Valgus
368 Also, Drew Goodman is the tiniest man I've ever met. He's like a Hummel you can stick in your pocket.

He very much has a Napoleon syndrome.

g'night, kids!

2007-07-31 22:28:15
371.   twerp
355. Furcal's ankle is another reason to let the OF play the ball he let drop. Plus, pulling off it=less strain on his ankle. With less strain, maybe it gets better quicker. (But I think he's said it won't completely heal this season)...

Part of good defense is using your head.

Fortunately that particular goof didn't hurt.

2007-07-31 22:30:39
372.   MMSMikey
was at the game tonight, and it was absoultely nausiating watching the dodger offense. pierre, gonzo, and kemp looked completely lost. And how is olmedo seanz still getting at bats in critial situations. would have much rather seen Ethier in that stop.
2007-07-31 22:32:52
373.   LAT
Went to the game. Some observations:

1. Getting into the Stadium on a sold out night is so bad its not worth going to the game. Go at 5:30 or don't go at all. I was on Sunset and Grand at 6:40. In my seat at 7:50.

2. Jon is right. The concession people are a big problem. A problem that will not be fixed until they get people who care, even a little, about the customers. The woman who poured me a couple of beers was inept, incompetent, indifferent and rude.

3. All things considered the crowd was pretty well behaved. One benefit of a sold out game is that most seats were filled with their actual ticket holder so no Raider fans were moving in from the foul poles. Another advantage a lot of attractive women.

4. Game was very anti-climatic. But you already knew that.

2007-07-31 22:47:14
374.   MMSMikey
.373

Let me put the 5th observation on your list.

5. Olmedo Seanz is done.

2007-07-31 22:50:39
375.   Dodgers49
Yankees Have Pitching, So They Add Betemit

>> On July 8, the day before the All-Star Game break, the Yankees led the Angels by 10 runs when Scott Proctor was sent in to pitch the eighth inning. To the Yankees' decision makers, this was an obvious sign that Manager Joe Torre would probably always favor Proctor over a pitcher just up from the minors, no matter how promising that pitcher seemed.

So when the trading deadline arrived at 4 p.m. yesterday, the Yankees took away Torre's go-to reliever <<

http://tinyurl.com/22bkle

2007-07-31 23:02:21
376.   still bevens
Looks like Wolf might be out of the rest of the season. No surprise there, I guess.

"There's a chance," said Wolf, who has been on the disabled list with shoulder stiffness since July 4. "I have to be realistic. I'm not going to take the ball until I feel perfect. So that's what I'm going to work for."

Wolf made a minor league rehabilitation start last week but didn't pitch well, giving up three runs and six hits in 57 pitches. Afterward he said his left shoulder stiffened again so he underwent a second MRI exam on Tuesday, and though the exam found no damage, it did show the inflammation had returned.

"It's frustrating," Wolf said. "We probably went too fast the first time. I probably wasn't ready to go."

I'm kinda glad we didn't do anything crazy at the deadline, but I really don't like our playoff chances if we have to rely on Hendrickson and Tomko. It makes you wonder if Ned thinks something can be done near the waiver deadline or if he likes our chances.

2007-07-31 23:16:21
377.   Scanman33
Don't know if these Proctor gems have been posted yet, but:

"They (the Dodgers) have a long history. Well, not as rich as it is here, unfortunately."

"We have the best baseball fans in the world here (NY), but you know, Dodger fans are the next best thing".

Way to go out and get some true Dodgers, Ned.

2007-07-31 23:16:58
378.   Humma Kavula
Didn't watch tonight's game.

Watched The Bourne Ultimatum instead.

Sounds like I had the better end of the bargain.

2007-07-31 23:18:26
379.   underdog
Enjoyed watching the game tonight with Paul and Icaros, even if the game was twenty different variations of suck. I will probably watch tomorrow's, and skip Thursday's, and hope the team can snap out of their sort of mini funk here. Having Kent back would be nice, he does still make a difference on offense, though I don't know if it would've mattered much tonight.

And I agree with the above, Saenz (even if that called third strike was questionable) just doesn't seem like any kind of threat at the plate at this point. Maybe LaRoche can be called up and be his replacement.

Ah well. Night all!

2007-07-31 23:18:56
380.   underdog
How does it compare to the first two Humma? I can't wait!
2007-07-31 23:19:16
381.   Dave G
Just got back from the game. Sat in the RF pavilion. Really remarkable atmosphere--almost like a playoff game, with that level of attention and interest, but with a lot more vitriol, and for lack of a better word, just anger. Never really seen anything like it. Wasn't full of name-callers; the crowd was pretty well-behaved, and I figure that because the pavilion's 35 bucks now* it was a slightly more affluent group. The emphasis on Barry was just remarkable--a few "Barry Sucks" chants and boos every time he touched the ball. There was real hatred in the air, and it was hard not to feel like you were part of a mob that was ready to explode should he hit that HR.

*With the all-you-can-eat thing, which I seriously DO NOT recommend; all you get is regular steamed dogs, nachos, and sodas--although if you go to a day game there's free bottled water, which might make it worth the price.

And as for the Dodgers, it was just a pathetic performance. What else can you say?

2007-07-31 23:22:48
382.   Humma Kavula
380 It's very good, compares most directly with The Bourne Supremacy (not surprising, since they have the same director). Lots of action, you still care about the character, nice payoff at the end. Definitely pays to review the first two movies going in, but you'll also be ok if you don't. (If you like the first two, you'll like it just as much.)

Not that it matters, but it's going to make a lot of money.

2007-07-31 23:26:27
383.   underdog
Oh, I forgot to ask - where are we on the Countdown to DFA Hernandez Clock?
2007-07-31 23:38:40
384.   somar58
376 The Dodgers got rid of Murray due to their poor hitting. Shouldn't they get rid of Conte for all these pitcher injuries?
2007-08-01 00:18:00
385.   Dodgers49
383. Oh, I forgot to ask - where are we on the Countdown to DFA Hernandez Clock?

Tony Jackson says a change will be made Wednesday:

>> Proctor will join the team tomorrow. They called up Delwyn Young to take Betemit's spot, and a pitcher will be sent down tomorrow to clear a roster spot for Proctor. ... <<

It wouldn't surprise me if Hull is sent down. They may give Hernandez more time to get his arm in shape. Ned and Grady really love veterans.

2007-08-01 02:50:00
386.   Greg Brock
The Ned quote on LaRoche is priceless. The subtext is:

He deserves to come up and play third. But playing third is up to the manager. Benching Nomar would be up to Grady. So, basically, it's all on Grady Little to bench Nomar Garciaparra and play LaRoche. But I'm not going to be the guy who does it.

Classy.

2007-08-01 03:16:03
387.   Dodger Jack
I am out here on the East Coast, checking in after last night loss. I was amused at the discussion of pocket protectors and new stats. It seems that some of you guys are still pining for Paulie. I find that amusing, too. I don't miss him at all. Remember the immovable first baseman he burdened us with? Using the "new stats," you split hairs over who is worse, Kouz or Betemit. They are both big disappointments and most teams would be hard pressed to win a division with one or the other at the corner. It doesn't take a pocket calculator to figure that out. So what if Kouz hit .332 in the minors? The team that originally drafted him gave up on him and the Pads are apparently beginning to as well (how else to explain their signing Engsberg?).
2007-08-01 04:23:44
388.   D4P
386
Yep. It's up to Grittle to call up LaRoche from AAA, because that's what field managers do.
2007-08-01 04:34:06
389.   Andrew Shimmin
Teams are hard pressed to win a division with A-rod and Miguel Cabrera at third, this year. It's sort of the nature of division winning, that it's hard. You're quite right that it doesn't take a calculator to tell that Betemit has been significantly better than Kouzmanoff. If you're disappointed by Betemit, perhaps your expectations were out of whack. He's beating his 75th percentile PECOTA projection (hope that's not too amusing a point to make) for EqA.

I won't speak for (or at) everybody else, but I'm well over DePodesta's departure. I'd just rather Colletti didn't turn useful players into middle relievers at the trade deadline. Is that really such a hard line ideological point?

2007-08-01 04:53:58
390.   Dodger Jack
When I see I a failed player like Betemit flirting with the Mendoza line, I will have to remember that he exceeded his "PECOTA projection." That will salve my disappointment for sure.

Whatever happened to batting averages? I suppose they don't count anymore. Both Kouz and Betemit have terrible BAs, though Kouz's is a little higher.

Was Betemit a useful player? Sure. He can play more than one position and he sometimes hits a dinger. But he was maddingly inconsistent and he blocked LaRoche. I am relieved to see him go.

As for Proctor, don't you consider him a "useful player"? He is an innings eater with a decent ERA. I would say that we need him badly. But am I being too hasty in my judgment? Maybe I should check his PECOTA projection before coming to that conclusion?

2007-08-01 04:58:47
391.   D4P
I am out here on the East Coast

Lake Tahoe is on the East Coast...?

2007-08-01 05:22:15
392.   Andrew Shimmin
390- What happened to batting average is what happened to ERA. People learned that there were better measures of a players production. Are you really so sure batting average is all that matters that you're unwilling to even investigate whether that's true? It would require looking at statistics (to see how runs produced correlate to different statistical measures of production), and I can't tell if you think that's inherently inauthentic, or just too much trouble.

Fine if you don't care about PECOTA projections--what did you expect of Betemit? What sort of line, coming in to the year, did you expect to see from him, using whatever you do to project a players performance?

Enough has been said, in the last few threads, that mirrors my estimation of Proctor that I don't think it's necessary to repeat it.

2007-08-01 05:23:28
393.   Andrew Shimmin
Two missing apostrophes mean I haven't had enough coffee.
2007-08-01 05:33:52
394.   D4P
393
Either that or you got up way too early.
2007-08-01 05:38:40
395.   D4P
The Giants may have won the game last night, but at least our starting pitcher got a Quality Start.
2007-08-01 05:39:16
396.   Andrew Shimmin
394- I dozed off toward the end of the game last night. If I hadn't, I would have made a point of crowing about my D'backs' HUGE win over the Padres.
2007-08-01 05:48:11
397.   D4P
Your D'backs are currently the luckiest team in the MLB, a full 8 games ahead of their Pyth rec.
2007-08-01 05:53:48
398.   Andrew Shimmin
397-

D'backs keep rolling.
Trolls keep trolling.

I'm not takin' your hate bait.
Not gonna do it.

2007-08-01 06:08:41
399.   D4P
I want to marry Paul DePodesta.
I want to murder Ned Colletti.

If you feel the same way, email me at

d4p@dodgerthoughts.com

2007-08-01 06:13:19
400.   Andrew Shimmin
399- The classic Odalis complex. Make sure whatever you use to poke out your eyes is sharp and sterile.
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2007-08-01 07:05:27
401.   Sam DC
Someone asked about bolding comments and I didn't see an answer.

You put astericks (shift 8) before and after the thing you want bolded. No spaces between the asterick and the first (or last) character.

Can only do one paragraph at a time - need to do it again if you go for two.

2007-08-01 07:44:06
402.   Bob Timmermann
Those are bold words.
2007-08-01 07:56:37
403.   Penarol1916
It appears that D4P awoke a sleeping dog with comment 391.
2007-08-01 08:00:45
404.   GobiasIndustries
400
Don't you mean Oedipus?
2007-08-01 08:06:05
405.   weatherman
404 - I think he meant Odalis. It's funnier that way.
2007-08-01 08:07:18
406.   Hythloday
404 - Only if there is some incest going on in the front office. Which I think would make Kim Ng Antigone (Or is it Ankimngone?). Otherwise I think Odalis is appropriate.
2007-08-01 08:09:50
407.   GobiasIndustries
So we didn't even have to wait a full 24 hours before witnessing first hand that the Betemit trade is going to come back to bite us time and time again. Fatmato Saenz striking out in the bottom of the 6th looking? Come on! At this point in the season how many people can actually say that they would've rather seen Saenz pinch hitting in that spot than Betemit?
With the way Saenz has been hitting or not been hitting this season, especially in crucial situations, what better option than to go to a switch hitting, power producing Wilson Betemit. Oh yeah our genius Weekend at Bernies lookalike GM traded him for a guy who was never good enough to make the big show the first time he was with the team so let's put in the killer Fatmato and see how he fares.............Get used to seeing that scenario play out on a regular basis. Now I'm not saying that Betemit would've come through with a hit for sure, but he would've been a better option than Saenz.
2007-08-01 08:17:57
408.   imperabo
The ball was low.
2007-08-01 08:21:39
409.   still bevens
And Grady would have probably put in Saenz anyway, regardless of whether Betemit was on the bench or not.
2007-08-01 08:23:11
410.   Terry A
386 - And the sub-subtext was, "I just made our team substantially weaker. Now it's up to them to win."
2007-08-01 08:24:44
411.   Sam DC
Lost-related book club online chat, tady at 9 am pacific. http://tinyurl.com/yosmah

First book -- Watership Down.

Why Watership Down: "Because it's the first book to make a prominent appearance in the series; Sawyer is seen reading it twice during season one, including during the appropriately titled 'White Rabbit' episode. Also, we like bunnies. And Jen digs the fact that the 1978 animated version of "Watership Down" appears as an Easter egg in the director's cut of 'Donnie Darko,' since 'Darko' and 'Lost' are pop culture siblings of a sort."

2007-08-01 08:33:06
412.   Summer Saint
In today's New York Times, regarding Bonds' chances of tying/breaking the homerun record while at Dodger Stadium, Vin Scully is quoted as saying "This to me is different. Aaron was received with great love, affection, adoration. I'm not sure how this one will be received. The story won't be what I say. The story will be what the crowd will say. So I will shut up and let them take it."

http://tinyurl.com/2wme7p

Is it traitorous of me to kind of hope that Bonds does in fact break the record in this series?

2007-08-01 08:47:13
413.   Bumsrap
If this hasn't been already beat to death, off the top of anybody's head, who would be the Dodger counter parts to the players traded yesterday? Did the Braves give up a Kershaw? Did Boston give up a Loney?
2007-08-01 08:50:24
414.   Penarol1916
412. Yeah, those people are absolutely crazy. They seem to be reading way too much into Lost, and if ends up being as bizarre and convoluted as they seem to make it every week in their discussions on Liz Kelly's blog, then I will be even more disappointed in that show.
2007-08-01 08:50:52
415.   Bumsrap
Will Kemp and Young platoon with Gonzo and Ethier? Will Kemp begin to hit again? With Young up is Saenz soon out?

An interesting finish to the season coming up.

2007-08-01 08:51:30
416.   WillieD
Thanks, Sam DC, for the tip on bolding....

I'm still feeling pretty happy that the Dodgers didn't send off any great prospects (Betemit is MLB level talent.) Ned did a fine job of resisting overpaying at the trading deadline, for the most part. I sure wish we would have won the game last night, however.

2007-08-01 09:03:58
417.   gpellamjr
415 Will our younger readers get the "Soap" reference?
2007-08-01 09:17:21
418.   underdog
"This is the story of two teams. Atlanta Braves and LA Dodgers. These are the Braves, and these are the Dodgers, and this is Soap."

I wouldn't say the Braves traded away exactly the equivalent of a Kershaw, since they don't have a pitcher in the minors rated as highly, but they did give up one of their top pitchers (the top pitcher according to Street and Smith's), and their two top position prospects. And another top prospect. So I'd say they gave up a lot.

Boston didn't give up quite as much for Gagne. One fairly highly rated pitching prospect (whom scouts are mixed on)...

The Rangers sure did haul off a lot of good young players, though.

2007-08-01 09:22:44
419.   Wilbert Robinson
386 sorry missed this...is this an article or tv/radio? Anywhere I can find it?
2007-08-01 09:26:43
420.   Humma Kavula
386 "Also, I seem to have misplaced Grady's number. Perhaps he and I should have a conversation about the makeup of the team and which personnel are expected to play. Thank goodness this team did not just recently go through a period marked by a wall of separation between the general manager and the field manager; that would make my previous quote frought with peril."
2007-08-01 09:26:56
421.   fanerman
417 Soap?
2007-08-01 09:30:15
422.   Bumsrap
Playing time is going to be the key to who is on the 25 man roster. Saenz is not doing well with limited at bats. If LaRoche is called up he might get more at bats and then both LaRoche and Garciaparra could be the right side pinch hitters when they are not in the starting lineup.
2007-08-01 09:33:09
423.   JoeyP
Jose Cruz Jr must be getting used to only playing till August or so.

Second straight year he's been released.
I'm kinda surprised the Padres would release both Cruz/Branyan. I'd rather have those two than Mackowiak/Ensberg.

2007-08-01 09:36:11
424.   still bevens
423 Im glad he finally fell back to earth. Earlier in the season he kept piling up extra base hits and contributing to SD's early season success. I wondered how it was possible he could keep it up and it turns out the answer was he couldn't.

I just wish our offense would come back to life and help us win games. Lord knows were not getting the help on the pitching side.

2007-08-01 09:37:38
425.   Humma Kavula
421 TiVo it. You will not be disappointed.
2007-08-01 09:40:43
426.   underdog
Just because the deadline's passed doesn't mean trades still can't happen, as you all know. For anyone who is unsure how that works, mlbtraderumors reposted a helpful set of rules about it (okay, they were from Steve Phillips, but still...):

Any player can be put on waivers by his team, and the player does not need to be informed.

Other teams have the chance to make a claim on the player during a 47 hour window.

If the player is claimed, the team that placed him on waivers has the option of pulling him back. If the team pulls him back they can't trade him for 30 days.

If his team decides not to pull him back:

Option 1: His team can work out a trade with the team that claimed him. Any player involved in the trade who is on a 40 man roster must go through waivers first.

Option 2: His team can just dump him and his salary on the team that claimed him, getting no player in return.

Option 3: No one claims him, and his team is free to trade him to any team.

If more than one team places a claim on a player, the winning claim is awarded based on worst record or the league the claiming team is in.

2007-08-01 09:46:31
427.   Bob Timmermann
Waivers:
http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2006/08/death_taxes_and_1.php
2007-08-01 09:53:26
428.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

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