Pretty good, pretty,pretty,pretty good.

OK, I'm out for real this time.....

Have a good evening folks!

In other news, the backup 2nd baseman is Lucille II, not, oh, say, Wilson Betemit. But no doubt Proctor will make up for whatever is lost in that tradeoff...

Also, do you think Vin has already decided what he is going to say should Bonds hit it in this series? I almost want him to go silent and let Dodger Stadium do the talking (like he did at times when Gagne made his entrance), but that doesn't really sound like Vin in this situation.

Yes, because Jeff Kent brings loads of defense to the table.

Enough with the DT generalizations. You don't know what everyone thinks.

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http://tinyurl.com/2bckts

"Do you remember Aaron's home run?" asked Scully, who called it on the Dodgers broadcast. "Bill Buckner climbed that fence they had out there. What would have happened if you were in the middle of something prepared and he caught the ball?

"That's why I absolutely would not have anything prepared."

Honestly, if the Dodgers win these games, I won't care as much whether he does or doesn't.

Last call, SF-ers. Watch the game on TV at the 4th Street B&G, 4th and Mission, SF. 7pm. Email me at underdog8@gmail.com if you want us to look for you.

That's a fairly brutal mischaracterization of those who, perhaps quite rationally, believed Betemit's offense for a middle infielder would more than offset his admitted defensive shortcomings.

I'm predicting no HRs for Bonds this series.

Dave Roberts who I've been watching play center field like a tourist stumbling through Chinatown looking vainly for the Hang Ah Tea Room. Holy cow. I have not broken down center fielders yet defensively, but I have to predict based entirely on visual evidence that Roberts will not score well. I mean, he's fast and he seems like a generally cool guy and all that. But he also seems to be on an eight-second delay whenever the ball's hit.

To me, the perfect scenario is Bonds breaking the record in LA while his team loses yet again.

And the fans in DS disappoint Dave Roberts (Barry's newest apologist) greatly.

Well, not really. But a guy can dream, can't he? And it actually is fairly plausible.

2007 Rate2 at 2B:

Lucille: 90 in 19 games
Betemit: 113 in 12 games

My main point was that Betemit was never the Dodger's backup 2B, I'm somewhat surprised that this is still disputed.

The greatest thing about #71 was that it came in the game in which the Dodgers eliminated the Giants from playoff contention.

"And Nomar is firmly entrenched in the #5 spot of the lineup as the starting 3rd baseman."

... I suppose if Grady Little and Ned Coletti managed the 1983 Dodgers, Ken Landreaux would be leading off, Steve Sax would be hitting fifth, Pedro Guerrero and Mike Marshall would hit 7th and 8th, respectively, and Greg Brock would be traded to the Yankees for Dale Murray.

I've always felt the same way. It stung so much less. It seems like people forget that now.

Beyond that, the GM just failed to deal any of the over-priced veterans they have toiling for a last place team, save for Matt Morris. The return on Matt Morris, who went to a non-contending team, was less than thrilling. By next year, Bonds should be gone, and it starts to look pretty hopeless.

So, to wrap up, sometime this week, there's likely to be good night for Giant fans. It could be the last one for a long, long time.

We could use more numbers on our side, considering the location.

Especially guys like you who probably came out of the womb breaking a bottle over someone's head.

Also, how do you gut half a roster for minor league talent and then finish the season? Its not like the Giants have much talent capable of stepping in right now, nor will they get much major-league-ready talent in trades.

... Hey, I liked Marshall. Besides, you didn't want to put Monday in right. By 1983, Rick was already a statue.

I touched his back at the first game I ever went to at Dodger Stadium. He was playing catch before the game, and was right up against the low fence along the foul line in RF. I was right behind him, and he leaned back into me to catch a high throw. He then turned around and gave the ball to a kid next to me.

I hate you Mike Marshall!

Also, if a lot of baseball scouts, proffesionals, and executives think Betemit isn't a 2B, I'm going to go with the experts over my opinion and my fellow Dodger Thoughts posters. It comes across as extreme hubris to me to think that I know better than John Schuerholz, Ned Colletti, Bobby Cox, and Grady Little.

Okay, maybe not Bobby Cox.

And Grady probably knows more about motorcycles.

Proctor was a nice pick up. I expect him to outperform everyone in the bullpen except for Saito and Broxton.

Someone in the last thread gave Ned a C grade for waiver deadline trading. That is way too tough on hairpiece-man. He deserves a B just for standing pat and not trading ANY prospects. Most of us bleakly expected that we would lose one or two. Yet, they all survived! That is going to pay big dividends over the next couple of seasons.

Sigh.

Betemit: .231/.359/.474/.834
Kouz: .233/.290/.411/.701

"It comes across as extreme hubris to me to think that I know better than Ned Coletti"

... Hey, it isn't hubris to say that I wouldn't have re-signed Nomar, and signed Juan Pierre to a multi-year deal. But Coletti did.

45 I touched his back at the first game I ever went to at Dodger Stadium

And he immediately went on the disabled list.

This is the kind of thinking that allows political leaders to do whatever they want. "He got elected: he must know what he's doing."

I don't buy it. Ned didn't get hired because he knows more than the rest of us about baseball stats and player evaluation. Do you really think he has any clue what VORP is or BABIP? I think it's safe to say not only that he has no clue, but that he doesn't want to have a clue. He openly mocks those kind of stats.

If anything, it's extreme hubris for people like Colletti, Joe Morgan, etc. to ignore advancements in baseball statistics and to tell the rest of us that traditional stats (e.g. BA, Wins, etc.) are all they need to know. It's like politicians tellings scientists that politicians know more than scientists about science.

.223/.282/.459/.741

I know. I was playing along.

.178/.295/.397/.692 ;)

70
Others have played second base, but they have not done so intelligently.

Wilson is gone.

Alea iacta est.

Train, if we go again we'll let ya know. Not sure I can do it Wednesday, and Thursday is Tomkoday...

I just hope Proctor can pitch the 7th inning of games effectively.

It would be one thing if a GM (e.g. Ned) were to look into "sabremetrics" and make an effort to get up to speed on all the new-fangled stats and such, and then to decide that s/he still preferred to go with "traditional" stats. (I personally don't think this would be likely, as I think the more you learn about new stats, the more compelling they become and the stupider the old stats look. But that's a separate issue).

But it's another thing to deride and ridicule new stats and the pocket-protector wearing, laptop-toting people who supposedly care about them, and to believe instead that the fact you played baseball or have been around baseball your whole life makes you inherently more qualified to evaluate players and that all you need are the traditional stats that have always been relied upon and that the stat nerds don't know anything that you don't.

That's hubris of Greek mythological proportions.

I do take issue with this, however:
It comes across as extreme hubris to me to think that I know better than Ned Coletti

I feel like you're really underrating your intelligence if you feel that Ned Coletti is smarter than you are.

Just asking.

But I think we're about 25 mins away from a whole different subject.

Nah, he was on Fox and said that Betemit had the opportunity to win the 3rd base job and he didn't. I think it's really pretty simple. Ned only looks at the traditional stats.

Interestingly, they asked him about Proctor, and he gave out a bunch of nonsense about how Proctor pitched in a major market, and then he gave the Mark Hendrickson defense. "But he played in the AL East!"

I hope Proctor returns to his 2006 form. Thats about all.

But none by Alex Rodriguez.

The major league record for a game is 10.

Why not offer up a differing opinion, then?

8) making the same point over and over again

My point is not whether there is support for the trade. It is about repetition about it being a ludicrous trade and about Colletti's IQ and competency, etc.

Dude, a lot of people, myself included, are just settling in after work. Are we only allowed to talk about things during the timeframe that you have deemed appropriate for a subject?

I'm just worried Scott Proctor is Paul Quantrill 2.0 after Torre got through with him.

I don't necessarily trust Colletti to go outside the numbers and come to the right conclusions. I do think Schuerholz, however, deserves a nod. He might actually have an understanding of character, work ethic, whatever.

Odalis Perez is the great example for LA fans.

It'll be interesting to see if any of the players KC or TX got for Dotel and Teixiera really pan out.

Thus, my reaction to the trade is lukewarmly positive. I look at it this way: We needed a pitcher more reliable than Seanez, Hernandez and Tomko. Proctor looks like he could be that pitcher. In order to get him, we gave up a guy I liked but didn't love, who played a position where the Dodgers are well-covered. It's not a deal to get excited about either way, but it's a logical deal, a deal with a short-term upside, but minimal long-term downside.

Until LaRoche, Loney, Kemp, etc. get fully established as major leaguers, it's going to be hard for Colletti to finish any trade, because GMs are going to insist on getting one of them as proof to their fans of their "savvy." And Colletti, bless him, has resisted all attempts to get them.

People here tend to respond to reason, but most of your rebuttals seem to consist of "I don't have to answer that, it's Ned's job".

Also, it's not like one person is saying the same thing again and again. It's just the flow of the overall discussion.

Bad news for those of us on Extra Innings: We're going to miss the start of the game tonight because the friggin' Yankees can never finish a game in less than three and a half hours.

102 You know- one of the things that worried me about Cole