If we had had this lineup for day 1, what would the Dodger record be?

good times.

When was the last time the Dodgers had this much home grown talent starting?

Hu
Young
Kemp
Kent/Abreu
Ethier
Martin
Loney
LaRoche
Billingsley

Maybe, just maybe if we played this lineup we could make the playoffs and feel really good about management and our prospects for next season.

Given the Dodgers have an afternoon start in Chicago tomorrow it's definitely good they have some of the young 'uns up now.

I'm from Indy, but a couple of other Dodger Fans from other parts of the country and I are making the final trek to Mecca (Dodgertown) this year. We were there for 11 days last year, but it will only be 6 or 7 this year. We have a nice 5 bedroom condo reserved.

If you, or anyone else is intersted, e-mail me at mark@ladodgertalk.com.

Here is the last game in which those four guys were on the same roster:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/2005afl/051113aflchamp.html

Of course, I'm ecstatic that Hillenbrand is gone.

I get it. I think. Bizarro 1995?

Alibis for the others:

-Anyone can lose a ball in the twilight.
-Oversliding. It happens. He had the base.
-Seanez has been spoiling us lately with his effectiveness. He's Roberto Hernandez without all the extra birthdays.

The second and third week of March. Probably a Wednesday through Tuesday thing. We have it reserved for 2 weeks, but can cut it back by the end of January. We also have Hotel Rooms at a good hotel (it's easy to get put up in a dump down there-been there, done that), in case we don't have enough people for the condo. I have a car and am picking up the guys at the Airport (Orlando is generally the best). Splitting costs make it very economical.

mark@ladodgertalk.com

I thought that quote by Canuck ROCKED & felt compelled to bring it over to the new thread. I feel like we really do need to put things in prospective (I'm guilty of not doing so my self) lets see what the baseball gods have in store for us today.

I am not Magical Marty

I think we overplay the team's reliance on veterans sometimes.

The Dodgers played Marlon Anderson down the stretch and started him in the playoffs because that was what was working.

Assuming that a team that was one game out of a playoff spot on the last day of the season and would trot out a lineup of guys who hadn't played much in the previous few weeks is a bit hard to fathom.

amen. i have a hard time believing ned/grady are as enthralled with veterans as most people here think, concidering that Kemp/Ethier/Loney are regularly hitting 3rd.

beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I thought Pierres choke job friday night was like getting punched in the stomach by Mike Tyson. Seriously, I thought that was a mood/momentum shifter for us, of course that's just a matter of opinion.

It's possible that Kemp or Loney could have slumped badly. Or gotten hurt. Or just about anything.

I personally don't believe hindsight is 20/20. Hindsight is mainly what you see in your own mind.

Personally, I have no imagination. I still can't figure out what John Lennon song is about.

I stated yesterday that he finishes of differently when he throws a fastball & when he throws a curve ball, & I really feel it's cause & effect, meaning he must ALSO START those pitches of differently as well (I might be wrong) maybe I'm just being paranoid but SMART HITTERS can catch stuff like that, veremos.

Only mark reynolds has an above average eqa. Young, Quentin, and Drew have all been dissapointments. Compare that to the immediate success that Loney, Kemp, and last year, Ethier, Broxton, and Martin have had.

Some people look at this and assume that thats proof that they should get more playing time - but I think its very likely it is because of the way management has eased them into the majors, slowly as to not overexpose or overwhelm them.

Rays up on the Yankees 8-2 in the 8th.

One thing Kemp does need to do is lay off breaking balls early in the count. The first one was a strike, but the second was way out of the zone. There was really no reasons to swing at either pitch because he couldnt do anything with them. He'll learn, and once he lays off the early count breaking stuff for balls, he'll see a ton more fastballs.

56 I personally don't believe hindsight is 20/20. Hindsight is mainly what you see in your own mind.

Reminds me of a wonderful Talmudic proverb: "We do not see things as they are, we wee them as we are."

Thats not true.

The Red Sox use alot of statistical analysis to draft players, with tremendous success.

Add Buchholz to Pedroia/Papelbon/Youkilis as gems they've pulled from the college ranks.

Marlins win 7-6.

Gameday showed two pitches over the plate.

ps just thinking out loud don't mind me.

besides, colletti and mccourt have to spend the ~$18m they are now spending on nomar and pierre - if not them they would have to spend it somewhere or the press would have grilled ownership for being cheap.

With their deep pockets, and Bill James/Epstein et al---they are going to be good for a long time. Hopefully the Dodgers can be like that, although with the current management that will not happen. It'll take new leadership.

Thats really a poor excuse for spending money horribly.

If the Dodgers are in fact ran like that, I hope McCourt sells the team.
No business is ran like that, c'mon.

I knew Plaschke posted on this blog!

Add Buchholz to Pedroia/Papelbon/Youkilis as gems they've pulled from the college ranks.

oh come on, Buccholz went to a CC, any statistical conclusions from CC competition is worthless.

I'm checking out of this thread and will not post again ever if I see the person from 97 posting in the same thread.

Do you think if he had sucked at CC, that he would have been drafted in 1st round?

of course not. But there are more players who dominant CCs that go on to do nothing in professional baseball. You can't seriously chalk up the drafting of Buccholz to statistical analysis used by the Red Sox. Yes of course they looked at his statistics but I bet they cared more about what their scouts thought of Buccholz.

Darn if we are not in one of these stretches where we make every pitcher look like Greg Maddox.

HS stats are irrelevant. competition at lower levels are so across the board that you can't really rely on stats to paint an accurate picture of a player.

Both?

it depends on who is doing the scouting reports. there are bad scouts and there are good scouts.

And promptly runs into an out on the bases. Oy.

He's a gem, just like a Matt Kemp is.

It was a straight steal. Matt never looked back, so it wasnt a hit and run. He wasnt expecting the ball to be put into play, and when it was, he had to find it by himself.

ps I don't remember him doing this AT ALL last year or even earlier this year, what gives!

It wasnt Kemps fault. Straight steal, bad decision by Kent to go after a bad pitch. I doubt either of the coaches helped Kemp find the ball, so he was on his own and didnt find the ball in time to get back.

I'm going with what you said it makes plenty more sense.

No, actually he's not just like Matt Kemp. Matt Kemp has a much larger sample of games in the major leagues. Matt Kemp is a hitter, and Buccholz is a pitcher. Since you're so statistically inclined, I'm sure you're familiar with TINSTAAP.

He has started two games.

... You're kidding, right? Are you going to tell me that any major league player worth the title isn't going to get back to the bag on a ball hit like that, regardless of whether he was running or not? It was a routine fly ball to center.

Kemp has a lot of upside, but this is a real problem of his; to just deny it and blame it on Kent is asinine.

I thought he might be joking but apparently not.

Stop changing the subject. I am adressing your point that Matt Kemp and Buccholz are exactly alike, which they are not.

Joba Chamberlain, as a reliever, is neither here nor there.

Do you know how hard it is to find the ball after running on a straight steal? He had no idea where it was. Even when loking at Cameron goingt o catch the ball, you still have to process things. Is he deking me? Did Kent hit the ball on the ground? Its a lot more complicated than it looks, and saying that is a routine play is false. If he WASNT going on a staight steal, then it is routine.

Duncan directing traffic would have been nice also no?

mean while, Bills is pitching a pretty darn good game so far! ugh!!!

That wouldnt really help, either. Out there in a big stadium with the crowd roaring, you cant hear much. Then, add it the infielders yelling at you, and it just gets all jumbled. The best help would be Donnelly at thrid, but based on his track record, i doubt he was doing anything helpful.

hes been our best starting pitcher. Sammy and Broxton have just been lights out though.

A lot to be excited about for '08....if they can just find a way to get rid of Pierre...

I really hope Ned blushes when he see that, if for anything else so he can learn from his mistakes. I sincerely mean it in a good way not in a bad way.

... Then explain to me why you never see that kind of play happening 99% of the time.

And the bashing of Donnelly is tired. It's not Donnelly's fault that the Dodgers run the bases poorly.

Generously, that was a busted run and hit.

It's interesting, because this is probably true. In far fewer innings, Billingsley has struck out over 100 batters, which Penny and Lowe have each managed to do in 170+ innings. At this point, he is a legitimately top end pitcher, although very few people seem to talk about it.

And if we are going to be judged on players who get drafted after our picks, here's my response:

Matt Kemp, Russell Martin, Andy LaRoche, Jonathan Broxton, and even Clayton Kershaw.

You are arguing the due to sample size, Kemp/Buccholz are not of the same value.

I disagree, bc prospects are not valued based upon their current value, but their expected future value. At this stage of the game, Kemp/Buccholz could be expected to garner the same type of talent in a trade on the open market. That is just the way the market is.

Buccholz dominated the minor league levels, just like Kemp has. Top end pitching, is valued more highly than corner OF'ers as well.

from what I've seen he chaises that out side pitch way to much (he did that earlier in the year) plus he stands WAY far from the plate for my taste, if I were an MLB pitcher I wouldn't throw anything else until he proves he can hit it.

After the experience with Jason Schmidt, after the experience with Randy Wolf, after the experience with Brett Tomko, after the experience with Mark Hendrickson, the Dodgers keep going back to the same old well of used up pitchers (c.f. Esteban Loaiza).

Teachability seems to be a problem for Ned.

To be quite honest, Dodger Thoughts just isnt Dodger Thoughts without Bob Timmermann's eclectic sense of humor. I really do enjoy that aspect of this blog.

You dont see it because most of the time on a straight steal when a guy has the bag stolen, there is no swing. Regardless on the outcomes, it was a bad play on Kents part. Obviously Kemp needs to improve his baserunning, but if you have never been in the position he was just in, you cannot comprehend how difficult it is to recover on that type of play.

Brian Cashman, Brian Sabean, Phillies, the list goes on.

Automatic Transmission.

As Dodger fans, we should demand more.

I SOOO!! want those days to come back. I'm still arrogant but my team has to do there part also!

ps we have the chips & the puzzle is almost complete, patience & it will come!

You have no point, honestly, so it's impossible to miss it. Matt Kemp has a .489 slugging percentage in 360 at-bats. He has a larger sample of major league experience to draw from.

Buccholz, for the millionth time, has TWO STARTS in the major leagues.

They are not the same. Accept it, and move on.

To further illustrate the point, wouldn't you agree that Billingsley is more valuable right now than Buccholz?

... This kind of play (run & hit, hit & run, flyball to the OF) happens dozens of times during a season to any team. 99% of the time, the runner going is able to make it back; most of the time easily, sometimes they barely get in there with a slide.

Kemp clearly blundered. He should have looked at his coach, or if he still had any doubt about where the ball was, he should have headed halfway back to first.

If it was, how come teams are willing to give up more for Clayton Kershaw instead of say Matt Kemp?

where is evidence of this?

... Let's not get hysterical over two at-bats. LaRoche is likely just pressing -- if he gets more chances down the stretch, he'll be fine. If not, wait until next year.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/Clay-Buchholz.shtml
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/K/Matthew-Kemp.shtml

So if you were going to start talking about records, that would be the place to start.

Young players with upside AND established major league success are more valuable than ones without a major league sample.

This is not a difficult concept. Any team that would give more for Clayton Kershaw than Matt Kemp is a team desperate for pitching, or more probably, foolish.

I just closed my eyes & imagined it, & I came to the conclusion that they'd be pimped heavily!

not necessarily. it all depends on what team is trading for him and their strengths and weaknesses.

Kemp is plain fast.

The Adkins/Sexton combo finally had a bad day. Or to more specific, Sexton had a bad day. In their last game of the year:
Adkins 3 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 2 K
Sexton 3.2 IP, 7 H, 7 R (5 ER), 2 BB, 4 K, 1 HR

Why Laroche didn't play yesterday:
"It had to do with Andy's healthy," Little said. "He missed a lot of time with his back recently and we wanted to make sure and get him another game under his belt. He made it through fine and we decided to make the move." One additional game makes him healthy? Ok

And to finish it, off, a quote from Laroche:
"I've stunk. Just look at the numbers," said LaRoche. "I've never had good springs and this spring my back started to bother me and I didn't think much of it, but when I got called up, it was bothering me and I was getting treatment. I felt it mostly fielding and running. And in airplanes and cars.
"I just didn't have any rhythm," said LaRoche, who also had to overcome a recurrence of chronic shoulder problems while at Las Vegas, shaking off a slow start. "It's just been a weird season for me. But I'm basically 100 percent physically now."

He's now at 46 strikes, 36 balls.

He's being very economical with his pitch count today, I don't get it.

that has to make you question his baseball knowledge no?

I think TJ is just stubborn.

Even worse, "those" are the worst kind.

I actually think thats what some of the guys call him. Sometimes when they follow a player in tot he dugout you can hear the congratulations and such, and a few times I've heard "Atta boy Kemper!"

If it's true, it's an interesting strategy, and definitely a worthwhile one. If the pitcher doesn't pay any attention to the runner, then the batter has no advantage, and could conceivably play against them. That, and a SB rarely adds a run anyways (like Furcal's, I'm guessing he would have scored on the Kemp/Kent hits regardless of the SB or Pierre's bunt)

Kempered Steel.

= 3 runs so far.

Into the bullpen deeper deeper!!

Germano came out, actually, it was Cameron who got hit.

D'oh!!

there not showing the MPH Nate but the ball is coming off his hand very very nicely today.

there using Proctor for the 8th JT Dutch.

Canuck and Nate never wavered in their support of Chad even when his control left much to be desired last year. I certainly had my doubts and it is nice to see Chad develop as they said he would.

Ned takes alot of heat, but I expect he could have dumped Chad last winter for a hitter and he didn't. That is the kind of non-action I give him credit for.

you rang?

I think there bringing in Beimel hopefully he can induce a DP.

But before powering off the phone, Buchholz had one of the most satisfying conversations of his life. That, of course, was with his parents -- Skip and Robin Buchholz of Lumberton, Texas.

"[My dad] was sort of lost for words," Buchholz said of his dad. "One thing he had been waiting for was for me to just give him the call that I was coming up here to get a start, but I don't think he ever thought of me calling and saying that I had thrown a no-hitter. He was real excited about that. It's what all of them dreamed about as I made my way through the organization and coming up here. I don't think they ever thought they'd see a no-hitter on the second start. It is what it is, and they were glad for it to happen."

Clay,

What'd you call your Dad for? You couldn't send him a telegram?

Listen, kid, you got the big bonus. Buy your dad Extra Innings or MLB-TV!

Sincerely,
The 21st century.

23 G, 148.1 IP, 3.16 ERA, 9 HR, 36 BB, 72 K

The 4.5 K/9 rate means he's probably been lucky and is due to regress, but I'm sure the Royals have enjoyed it this year.

Pena must be having the best season ever by a walk on positional player in my lifetime unless Fielder would be considered a walk on. He was signed from the Japanese league as a free agent while Pena was a non roster invite who made the team by the luckiest of margins.

If we lose this one, I am officially throwing in the towel.

However, now that Broxton is coming in, I think we're OK.

... Wasn't Broxton the pitcher who blew the 5-run lead that day?

Regardless of how this turns out, this was a hysterical display of over-managing. They're going to need Broxton in the close games, so there's no reason whatsoever to burn him in the blowouts.

Good one, Jon. Tumbling the dice, indeed.

Oh, and way to go, Broxton!!!!!!

Wasn't Nomar the 1B who blew the 5-run lead that day?

I wouldn't know, i don't pay attention to Arizona football....at all.

yeah, I don't like this umpiring crew either.

... I agree.

358

... Nomar was certainly a big part of that loss; no denying that.

My wife asks, "What gear are you in?"

"Second."

"So, what are you saving first gear for?"

If Grady let this game get away because he was trying to "save" Broxton, he'd be fired.

You're going to need Broxton in situations where the bases are loaded and the Dodgers have a ONE-run lead -- it's silly to burn him when the Dodgers are up by 5.

Why is that silly to use him in that situation? Proctor obviously stunk today and Little has him on a short leash. Beimel wasnt going to face Cameron with the bases loaded. You use your best reliever in that circumstance to keep the game a 5 run lead, you dont wait until the game gets closer. Brox hasnt pitched in 3 days, and stopping that rally was the most important part of the game. no reason not to use him there. I'd rather have Brox come in in that spot rather than have Beimel give up a bses clearing double to Cameron and have Brox come in with a 2 run lead and a man on second.

This is a reckless move IMO. Good lick Grits. You may need it.

... How does Proctor giving up a couple runs constitute "letting the game get away"? He gave up a single and a walk and got pulled. I can understand sending the pitching coach to the mound, but to pull Proctor was over-reacting.

Broxton will get enough use in the CLOSE games; it makes no sense to burn him in a blowout. None at all.

A manager using Roberto Hernandez is like having an eating disorder.

Id probably take cain/lincecum over them.

... I'm not going to break rule 8; my point's been made a few times already.

But I will say this ... stating that Proctor "stunk" after facing a grand total of TWO BATTERS, with a five-run lead in hand, is a ridiculous statement.

but I'm just have we salvaged one.

I might think the Dodgers are already out of it, but it's been pretty well documented that managers and players don't give up on getting into the post-season until their situation is much worse than this. As Vin Scully said, they've got 9 games left against AZ and SD after today, so they've still got a chance.

I completely support taking Proctor out there. He has worked harder than Broxton lately. The San Diego game is not one you want to fool around with. Overwork was not a consideration.

http://www.truebluela.com/poll_vote/1188584950_oiYkrAya

Awesome win today. Lots to be happy about. Good contributions from the kids, and Furcal had a great game. Billingsley was superb when it counted.

... The difference is that I don't automatically assume that every pitcher I bring in who isn't named Broxton or Saito or Meloan is going to automatically get lit up or give up a HR every at-bat.

If you can't trust Proctor or Beimel with a five-run lead in Petco Park, then why even have them on your roster?

Now we are still alive. We need to go 19-7 in our remaining games. And I think on this road trip we need to take at least 5 of the remaining 7 vs the Cubs and Giants.

... It was a FIVE RUN LEAD. That can't be hard to understand.

Remember this game if Broxton begins to fade later this month. "Wow, guess we really didn't need to use him in that blowout in San Diego, did we?"

Only 1 regular player from the 2005 team has been dealt out of the system, Martin, Billingsley, Broxton have been here since June 2006, Loney now regular at 1B, LaRoche hopefully will get a shot at 3B this month, maybe Young can solidify a 4th OF spot and the younger guys at Vero Beach in 2005, Kemp, Abreu, Hu are all here.

That's a lot of guys to come up from AA/High A in 2 years and to think that somehow there is some plan to showcase to prove that this team can't win just can't be taken seriously.

Tough game for Loaiza's 1st start tomorrow. Zambrano has been winless since he signed his big contract.

Loney's hit was the play of the game for me. Tough lefthander and he hit it 400 feet after Ethier and Martin failed in their jobs.

Atlanta will feel the pain of the trade for rest of this decade with Tex doing nothing while they got swept by the Met's.

How is a game a blowout when in the 8th inning the tying run is in the on deck circle? Sorry, but thats not a blowout, especially when the two batters are the 3 and 4 hitters in the lineup. You put your best player on the field in that spot, and its a guy who hasnt pitched in 3 days! How is that overusing him? If Beimel gives up a hit to Cameron, do you then put in Broxton? Why not just use him there and get out of the inning comfortably. The goal is to win the game, and this late in the season, you take no chances and play your best guys.

Hey, I had company today, so I was an exile from Dodger Thoughts. Otherwise, I would have commented sooner.

1) The imminent threat of the Dodgers' most important rival sending the tying run to the plate.

2) The possibility that a similar threat might happen on two more consecutive days against a team that the Dodgers are not in direct competition with.

Given that Broxton is completely rested, I don't know how you can make a case that the Dodgers should have held him out until today's game got more in jeopardy.

All that being said, guys, the Dodgers won. Might want to enjoy it.

Words to live by!

Btw, I kinda support not using Meloan today. He just made his MLB debut yesterday and pitched 2 innings - which is totally not outta the question for him, given he's pitched 2 a few times for Vegas and so on, but I think saving him for another day was the right move. Bringing in Hernandez is never a good move on the other hand but it worked.

Whew. So I didn't see any of his ABs, did Andy settle down a bit more after his first two clunky ones? Sounds like it... I hope he's in there again tomorrow or at least one of the next two.

PS: "Kemper"?

We're not out of it yet. Let's hope we keep scoring 5 runs a game. If we can do that, we can win 19 or 20 of our remaining 26 and make the playoffs.

Did anyone send a search party out for Bob, btw?

Well, I'm gonna enjoy the win, that's for sure! Not much turnaround time before they play the next one.

The good part is he frequently pitches multiple innings at a time, so he'd probably be the ideal "smokejumper" to pitch the 7th and 8th innings of tie games and so forth.

His injury history, by the way, I think only further indicts Colletti for not calling him up sooner. If a guy is that dominating but is likely to go down at any time, you'd rather have him waste his bullets in the majors instead of AAA.

426 I went to high school with him. I saw him play live many times. From what I saw of him, I think he's gonna be a major leaguer. He was a flat out beast!

Kemp also got in a bit of trouble in high school.

I think Lambo fell because of power concerns... although looking at what he has done so far in professional baseball, the reason(s) why he fell really confuse me and don't make sense.

He was offered (and accepted) a scholarship from Arizona State.

Sorry, the heat's getting to me. I'll skulk away now.

This proves you never saw him play. Though he'd hit well over .400, it was his power that was Lambo's specialty. He lead the Marmonte League in homeruns as a junior. And that is a division 1 league that produced the #2 overall pick this year.

you're right, i never saw him play. From scouting reports I read, they all questioned his future power output.

The trouble he got into HS was not unlike the trouble that most high spirited kids get into. It was quite unlike the Kemp incident.

By Tony Jackson
Los Angeles Daily News*

Ask most Dodger players, and they'll tell you that the team still has a shot at making the 2007 playoffs. But don't tell that to manager Grady Little, who sent a second-year failed reliever to the mound Sunday against the San Diego Padres in perhaps the most important game of the season to date.

In a must-win situation, Chad Billingsley walked yet another batter and threw 40 balls, failing to pitch into the eighth inning for the sixth consecutive start. But his teammates bailed him out yet again, scoring one run in the fifth and three in the seventh despite Billingsley making a rally-killing out in each inning.

Billingsley failed to strike out 16 of the 25 batters he faced, struggling through seven grueling innings and piling up 95 pitches before Little finally removed him.

Also, Billingsley has a gigantic ass.

I have, however, tried multiple times to post on Tony Jackson's blog and been unable to. Otherwise I probably would have posted 447 there.

I was kicking it watching the Cubbie game when it all unfolded.

I tried posting there just once. But got so fed up after jumping through some hoops that I gave up and never tried again.

common sense tells me you gotta make it very easy for a new recruit. at least that's the way I see it.

What does he think this is, the All Star game?

http://tinyurl.com/262ff6

Those schedulemakers should do manage to get it right.

My own personal scheduler hasn't really matched their performance, however.

Well, sure, for example, dropping a vial of Ebola at LAX would definitely be worse. And lots of other things too.

Full count . . .

Well, sure, for example, dropping a vial of Ebola at LAX would definitely be worse. And lots of other things too.

Full count . . .