LAT'D

Colleti: "I will not trade [the kids] for a chance to win for one year. But for a chance to win for many years? I'd do it in a heartbeat."

For a former PR guy he's completely tone deaf. No feel for how he comes across. "I'd do it in a heartbeat". I can't think of a better phrase to use if you want your (young) players to feel like they're nothing but objects and un-cared about. Way to build unity and team spirit you buffoon. Go wash cars.

Right or wrong, at the very least, this was a completely unnecessary way to put it. Especially right now

1 - where did you read this?

1 - I agree. Plus, as someone mentioned earlier, the whole point of a great kid is that he's usually the multiyear winning option.

2 - Plaschke today.

2 - never mind. Ugh.

But anyway ... Russell Martin!

I wonder if Plaschke wants us to trade him too?

Le capitaine!

The most important question of the day is a pressing issue almost a year old...
Is Russell Martin the Golden God, Backstop Bacon, Blue Trane, or Russeldinho?

He inspired me to buy tickets to several Dodger games.

6 -

Reds fan, Feb. 2000: Ken Griffey, Jr.!
Rangers fan, Jan. 2001: A-Rod!

I could go on. Sadly, one player does not a good team make.

Martin's 21 steals are the most by a Dodger catcher in a season in franchise history, a record previously held by Con Daily for 115 years.

that last tid bit is just flat out freaky/awesome, wow.

I vote Russeldinho. It's a blue thing.

Dear Russell: Please consider hitting two homers in the next four games. Thank you.

I thought it was totally mature of Martin to respond to this controversy the way he did. This guy is all about PLAYING THE GAME. The rest to him is chicken feed. The vets should learn a lesson from HIM.

9 Captain Coltrane!

8

El Oso De Oro!™

Russell Martin -- All-Star catcher Russell Martin -- had better be the centerpiece of the Dodgers' advertising campaign next year.

14 he'll take it under advisement

11 - Speaking of A-Rod, this quote:

"We would be in third or fourth place if it weren't for the young players," Alex Rodriguez said recently. "They are the foundation of our team."

Article:
Rookies adding to teams' playoff push - Clubs leaning toward callups rather than trading for veterans

Link:
http://tinyurl.com/2jd9uo

17 Isn't that Jeff Kent?

Russell is Double Nickels on the Dime (okay, that's for all you Minutemen fans out there). But he wears 55 so there's something there. BlueTrane works for me.

I can't remember who it was, but kudos to whoever suggested that the Dodgers' TV marketing campaign should consist of Martin saying "Hi, I'm Russell Martin. If you come out to Dodger Stadium, you get to watch me play baseball."

20 "Rodriguez continued, 'The Dodgers, on the other hand, though they have great, young talent, would be in fourth place without me -- oh, wait, they don't have me. Oh. Sorry.'"

20

Good, he is already preparing for LA next year.

I wish Colletti was an avid fan of extreme sports. Lots of skydiving, bungee-jumping, restraintless rock-climbing, helmetless mountainbiking, etc.

Something good could come of that eventually, but he's probably another Al Bundy when he gets home from the office.

21 - the bear of gold? For Kent? Somehow, "El bigote arrugado" comes to mind, after playing with babelfish.

21

I don't think so? I just kind of freestyled that one.

24 Also: "As owner of the Cubs, I've decided to trade Aramis Ramirez to the Yankees in exchange for myself."

27 , 28 Jeff Kent... Golden Bear...

Russell Martin es el Dios de Oro!

I'd love to see an '08 marketing campaign similar to what the A's did back when they Giambi, etc: they showed the young players goofing around, acting like kids (jumping on beds, etc) with the tagline "They're young.... but they can play."

Martin is already practically the face of the franchise (and will firmly be there once Nomar gets dumped). Martin, Loney, Kemp, Ethier, Billingsley, Broxton..... have 'em all grace the side of Dodger Stadium.

Seriously, they already play The Who a lot at Dodger Stadium... why not add "The Kids are Alright" to the repertoire?

26 "restraintless rock-climing"

Really, they do that? wow

Maybe we could hire one of those advertising planes to zoom back and forth in front of Coletti's house with a RESTRAINTLESS ROCK CLIMBING! banner.

33 - I would love that.

I teach 5th and 6th graders. In my classrroom, Russell Martin is the most popular Dodger on the team. Jackie Robinson would edge him out if we were talking all time Dodgers. My kids don't consider Russell one of the new guys. They see him as the leader. This is based on a lunch time conversation we had yesterday.

36 - That reminds me - I haven't done DT Kids Day this year. I should do that this weekend.

33.
Great idea! But I love to hear the Who just about anytime. "My Generation" might take it a bit too far though. :-)

I don't think it was mentioned much but I really liked what Martin said in the Plaschke column:
"There are times I felt like I wanted to say something, but it's just not my time," he said. "I'm not going to be one of those young guys who talks a lot. I need to have the team's respect before I do that. And I still have to earn that respect."

I don't think anyone would blame him if he did step up but words like this show respect and are the exact sort of thing that Kent seems to be saying doesn't happen. Part of being a great leader is earning your leadership position.

My dream ad campaign next year (with it being an anniversary year and all) would be for the current crop of young guys to team up with the crew from the mid 70s/early 80s. Martin and Yeager; Garvey and Loney; Cey and LaRoche - do like a Rip Van Winkle sort of thing, guy falls asleep watching Drysdale and Koufax, wakes up to see the Big Blue Wrecking Crew, goes back to sleep until 1988, wakes up again next year with all the kids, says something like, "Yep, that looks like Dodger baseball"

38

People try to put them down (in fact, they succeed in putting them down) just because they get around (the bases)....

37.

Jon, that would be great! I would feel very comfortable recommending this site to my school kids. As a matter of fact, this is a perfect time for me to thank you for Dodger Thoughts. It truly is my favorite place to read about the Dodgers.

41. People try to put them down (in fact, they succeed in putting them down) just because they get around (the bases)....

True. But the "hope I die before I get old" line might really widen the rift!

43 I just hope they play before they get old.

I don't know which is harder to fathom, that The Who were huge at one time, or that Deep Purple were. I suppose a few good songs can take you a long long way.

40

wow, that's actually pretty good KG16

Gulp time at Shea. Mets were up 5-0. Now they are up 6-5 in the top of the fifth, two on, no outs.

Pedro coming in to pitch.

Pedro Feliciano.

My ideal NL playoff scenario:

Phillies win East
Don't care about Central
Padres win West
Rockies win Wild Card

45 - Oh, lord.

46 - thanks, I figure if you're going to run a campaign based on 50 years in LA, you might as well use the whole 50 years, tie it all together (except the Fox years)

7-6 Nationals over the Mets.

40 is a really great idea for an ad campaign. Didn't they do something a little similar where an image of Koufax pitching morphed into Ramon Martinez or something?

48 I want the Rockies to make the playoffs both because it would be a great story, and I'd look like Nostradamus for even giving the Rockies hope at a playoff shot.

45 I don't really understand. Are you saying that The Who was something other than compelling and incredible?

Does not compute.

"The Kids Are Alright" is a better choice than Ned's pick, "I Can't Explain" or Plasche's, "Substitute".

45 Whoa. Did you just take a shot at The Who?

Not cool.

My worst nightmare:

Kemp, Broxton, Kershaw for Cabrera. Cabrera shows up at Vero weighing 300 lbs. He plays third until the end of June and at that point it is obvious that he can't play third anymore. Ned and Grady examine the rulebook and discover there is no DH in the NL (Dang! How did that happen?). Cabrera gets moved to first. Loney is traded. We finish in fourth place, barely ahead of the Giants. Logan goes to work for another team.

Russel is awesome! Heck, even Lieberthal knows that. Didn't the Dodger used to have a team captain back in the day? Like Lopes or somebody? I know Pee Wee was. Grady should just appoint him, because he already is and it might calm this tiresome frenzy.

56 Wake up! Wake up!

45 I must disagree. The Who's rock opera, Tommy, was one of most creative things ever done. I would rank them third during their time after the Beatles and the Stones, and that is very select company.

Greg -- I know you've had ups and downs lately, and I hope things are on a good path for you.

Is it poor form/selfish to say it's nice having you back around the place?

And not just because you stand up for The Who.

I really hope Milwaukee wins tonight.

Unless he is injured, or stalking Simers, I see no reason that Kemp is not in the starting lineup tonight against righty Fogg. Even at this lost stage of the season, Little insists on playing Pierre. That is difficult to understand. He must be smitten.

The Who put out their share of dross. But I would put their best work (and there is a lot of it) up against any rock and roll band. I saw them many times; the two most memorable were at the Forum in 1970 and in 1973. The effect was permanent! Deep Purple? I don't really know much about them, other than the hits.

59.

This may surprise you, but I would squeeze Hendrix and the Stones into the two spot ahead of the Who.

60 I'll survive. Anyway, anyhow, anywhere...

Man - The Who at the Forum in 1970 must have been something.

57
Davey Lopes was the Dodgers last team captain. He quit in a huff.

59

yeah, but there all Brits though (nothing wrong with it, just saying) how about some love for The Doors.

45 You should consult Greg Brock (he of post 55 fame) for advice when he teaches the next course in his "Against The Grain" series, entitled "How To Insult Rock & Roll Legends."

Also, why not play "The Who" for Chin Lung Hu PA? Then again, I always wanted to play "Yellow Submarine" when Byung-Hyun Kim came in to pitch.

66 The Who at the Hollywood Bowl a couple of years ago was great. Even without Moon :-(

62 - Matt Kemp is not stalking Simers, he is waiting in the parking lot for Plaschke.

"I'm not going to be one of those young guys who talks a lot. I need to have the team's respect before I do that. And I still have to earn that respect."

I know he's Saint Russ and all, and this is his even his own personal thread, but my first reaction on reading this was that it was a veiled shot at other rookies who are talking a lot without having earned that right.

I don't strongly think it's that. I just think it could be. And folks in the locker room can probably tell right away if it is or if it's not.

I don't have anything against The Who, necessarily. They had a few good songs. But I probably wouldn't put them in my top 200 bands/artists of all time.

I've always put the British rockers in a different category from their American counterparts.

British Rushmore of Rock Legends: Beatles, Stones, Who, Zeppelin

Americans: Doors, Hendrix, Dead, Joplin (even though she was really more of a blues singer)

72 I wasn't super-pumped about that quote.

I don't have anything against The Who, necessarily. They had a few good songs

And Nolan Ryan had a few strikeouts.

66.

It was amazing. I was 15, and a major music fan. I had been to a few shows before- Strawberry Alarm Clock, Brenton Wood, Joe Tex, the Chambers Brothers, Canned Heat. But nothing prepared me for the Who, playing the Who's Next material. That was definitely an adult portion. The synthe sounds so dated now, but "Baba O'Reilly" and "Won't Get Fooled Again" were just stunning. Having said that- the 1973, Quadraphenia show was even more memorable.

69
My favorite musical moment was at a Padres game a few years back (at the Murphy stadium) when Mike Myers came in to relieve. They played the theme from "Austin Powers" as he was warming up. It had to get to him.

72 I thought it wasn't all that veiled. The 25-and-under set views Martin as their unquestioned leader. I mean, look at LaRoche's quote from his chat yesterday. I think this was just Russ' way of letting them know it would behoove everyone to keep things in-house. Which I suspect he may have discussed with them in person already (though that's pure speculation on my part).

No love for Sabbath?

Like Jimi, I saw The Who at the Forum in '73. Best concert ever. Plaschke's favorite Who tune, "Tommy Can You Hear Me?"

72. It made me appreciate Martin even more.

76 Long career of varying quality, overrated by the general public, but still clearly a Hall of Famer. Yeah, I can see the Who being Nolan Ryan.

72, et al - what troubles me about his quote is that he doesn't think being the only All Star starter on the team, and the most consistent player for two years, is enough for him to earn the respect of the other players. Really, if it isn't enough for some of the vets, then there is something seriously amiss in the clubhouse.

83 - those are fighting words, on both fronts

El Duque in to relieve in Flushing. Still 7-6 Nationals, now in the seventh. Phillies ahead of the Reds.

83
The Who's vast body of work ensures that CBS will be able to create an undending series of "CSI" spinoffs.

CSI:Milwaukee - Theme song "Mama's got a Squeezebox"

CSI:Rochester, NY - Theme song "My Generation."

CSI: Belleville, IL - Theme song "Cousin Kevin."

85 Hey, tell it to Timmermann!

81. The show I went to was the ONLY concert I have attended where the applause didn't stop when they brought the house lights up and put on the canned music. My detail obsessed friend says the applause lasted 12 minutes before we got our
fourth encore- Pete smashing the only guitar of the tour. Sorry to derail the Dodger talk! Trust me, I want this win tonight. Its getting harder to justify all this couch sitting. :-)

I was just watching D.Youngs dinger, the ball was on a T & D.Young just flat out crushed it, nice swing.

Sorry to derail the Dodger talk!

Yes. Let's shift the focus from The Who back to The Hu.

88 I read Bob's comment in 85 as The Who had many, many hit songs, more than a few, just like Ryan had lots and lots of Ks.

Phillies ahead of the Reds.

Well, it was the Braves who ended up losing to Philadelphia.

Earlier today from a BA chat with Jim Calis:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kyle (Minneapolis): What do you think of the report of the Dodgers offering up Kershaw and Kemp for Johan in the offseason? Enough to get him?

Jim Callis: Didn't see that report. If I had to trade Santana, that would be a good starting point. And as crazy as this sounds, the Dodgers might regret that trade. If Kershaw and Kemp reach their potential, they'll be bargains while they're cost-controlled.

Later somewone threw in Loney and Laroche to the proposed trade in which Callis replied that the Dodgers would pretty much be crazy to trade away 4 cost controlled cornerstones of a franchise for Santana. Anyway, it's nice to know there are people out there who like our prospects enough to not be willing to part with 2 of them for one of the best pitchers in baseball.

93 Oh what, you thought I was talking about tonight's game? I was, you know, talking about season totals. That wasn't obvious?

64 I had the Stones in the No. 2 hole. Hendrix' career was meteoric; he was kind of like Fidrych -- brilliant, but short-lived. Of course, Fidrych didn't burn his glove on stage; Hendrix set his guitar on fire at the Monterey Pop Festival in 1967.

The destruction of musical instruments does not impress me much.

94 I think Loney has progressed beyond the prospect description.

97 Agreed. It was a historical footnote.

no love for Country Joe and the Fish? Paul Butterfield Blues Band?

ok, just kidding

I haven't fallowed Kershaws career (like I did Russell, Bills & others on Jax.tv.) to have an opinion on him but from everything I've heard he's got an electric arm & from watching Kemp if he figures things out we can have a special crop of young'uns like 94 & Jim Callis (BA) have suggested (very cheap & under our control for many years) Neds own job can be at stake here if he makes a bone head move this winter, veremos.

97. Of course. But, as theatre, it was remarkable to see Pete do it.

Agreed. It was a historical footnote.

a historical footnote that NOBODY HAD DONE (from what I understand) which made it unique back in '67, gets total original points from me.

My favorite The Who related album:

http://tinyurl.com/yrt5r8

No Cream or Yardbirds either?

Bonds is not playing in Los Angeles this weekend. Tonight is his final game of the year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3038065

105. Uh oh, I can go on like this all night! No Kinks or Buffalo Springfield either? (Actually, I'm not as mired in the 60's as it may seem. Although a Koufax, Drysdale 1 and 2 sure sounds pretty good right about now.)

Can I get a little help here? I just had to endure Bill Plaschke trashing Matt Kemp, could I be spared having to read people trash the Who?

104

How is Peter Frampton related to The Who?

I also hope Scott Elbert makes some noise in ST if anything at least for he could get a sept. call up in '08.

108. You'll never hear me trash the Who or Kemp. But I'm ready to pile on Plaschke again. I wish I could stop reading him- but I can't seem to find the will power.

How is Peter Frampton related to The Who?

Uh, I don't know much about classic rock...

It's funny listening to those 1960s bands. To me, they sound like classical music, compared to some things that came afterwards.

Not knocking all post-hippie era music, but I was in high school just as the Sex Pistols/ Ramones, etc. broke out and started all that new stuff. It's very funny to hear "Blitzkrieg Bop" played at a sports stadium when I can remember that sort of music scaring people.

108 The Who is easily- EASILY- my favorite band of that era. to make you fel better, I recommend heading down to Amoeba Records tomorrow and picking up the new Springsteen on vinyl.

The Cubs lost. The Brewers are behind 3-2 to the Cardinals in the 7th.

Isn't the game supposed to be starting about now?

585. Jon Weisman 2007-09-26 07:37:46
Great comments last night. You guys are calmer than me. New post up top.

This must be the most stunning comment in the history of DT. And, Jon, I mean that as the highest compliment. Excellent post in the last topic.

MLBTV now has team commercials during breaks.

Goodman, keep it Lowe.

Where are we; did someone say new post up top.

wow. The stadium is empty.

Does Hu come out to "Head Like a Hole?"

That is awesome, if he does.

What just happened in Milwaukee? Pitcher hit Pujols and was ejected?

Did the ump think it was on purpose? In a critical game trailing by one?

darn it, just missed it, D. Young.

121 No

I think he missed his 2nd home run by about 2 or 3 feet.

9-6 Nationals. Still in the top of the ninth.

Man this Young is can rake. He should be found a spot, or be the trade bait. But one way or another he should be playing. A small market team would give a good, but expensive player in his prime for someone someone like Young.

obviously, Loney does not know how to manufacture runs.

Man Shea fans are hating on their team.

I think the Mets will make the playoffs, but that bullpen of theirs looks horrible now.

Oh Yeah!

"Dead alligator or no, Delwyn Young can hit." I love Vin.

nice DP, it looks like Phillie is having there way with Zona, 5-1 Phills.

130 - They could benefit from having Roberto Hernandez in the BP.

Home run Randy Winn. Giants lead 1-0 after 1.

128 Loney only knows how to score or drive in runs. Very limiting.

133
Get a map of Pennsylvania, bluebleeder.

Go find Philadelphia.

Then head west.

Sort of Old Friend Kelly Stinnett batting for St. Louis with the bases loaded and two outs in a 3-2 game for the Cardinals against Derrick Turnbow.

St. Louis has loaded the bases in the top of the 8th - they lead 3-2.

Time running out for Mil. if they can't find a way to grab this game.

133

arrr, sorry Phills should be Pittsburgh.

136 We should trade him for a proven vet. I hear Doug Mientkiewicz is pretty proven.

Was told that, after the Phillies won against the Texarkana Hissing Roaches tonight they kept the ballpark open and put the Nationals/Mets up on the jumbotron.

Fun stuff.

Remember when I used to be the edgy one? Frip hates Vin Scully and The Who. Plus I suspect him of having once moved a trash can without my permission. Lousy rookies.

"Stinnett should not be swinging. He might as well have a plastic bat in his hands."

Turnbow walked in a run.

The Brewers could have avoided this mess if Spurling hadn't deliberately plunked Pujols and gotten ejected.

man, Troy Tulowitzki arm looks like it's gonna fly off every time he hot dogs his throws.

Nationals win. The boos are so loud at Shea.

So the Mets drop 5-6 to the Nationals in the last two weeks of the season. Ouch.

Wow, next inning we put up Valdez, Lowe, and Pierre. Can you pass like in bridge?

Actually Valdez is not bad.

A single and two doubles put the Padres up 2-1.

Taguchi with a book rule double for a 6-2 Cardinals lead.

If Ned can withstand the temptation to trade, this young nucleus of Loney, Kemp, Martin, Broxton, Billingsley, Ethier, Abreu, LaRoche and several still in the high minors could rival two other confluent periods in club history. From 1946 through 1949, the following came on the scene: Furillo, Robinson, Snider, Hodges, Campanella, Erskine and Newcombe. (Hodges actually played one game in 1943 prior to military service). The next period was from 1969 to 1972 during which the following arrived: Russell, Garvey, Buckner, Valentine, Ferguson, Hough, Cey, Lopes, Lacy, Yeager and Rau. Two wonderful eras. May this be a third.

I love the Who. But I think Tommy is almost unlistenable.

How does the turtlesque Yorvit get a double off Hu??

Infield hit for the Cardinals and it's 7-2 Redbirds in the 8th.

Long faces abound in the Cream City.

151.

I also like Hu. But when Tommy starts doing his, "I bleed Dodger blue" schtick, I can't help but buy in.

Lowe is going to strangle Hu and Andy tonight.

151 . A skee ball man?

155 ... Andy hasn't misplayed a single ball tonight.

Is Young's defense at second worse than Kent's?

Holy cow--did Lowe get on for tiny head. Of course my sound is off now.

158 To quote BP:

"Flailing, slugging middle infielder who's about to embark on a magical journey down the defensive spectrum. Young's got power to burn, can hit for average, and has occasionally worked the strike zone pretty well. What he can't do is field. Think Julio Franco at second base; not back when he was 25 and could play there without the team instantly forfeiting, but rather eight or nine years from today. Perhaps after hip-replacement surgery."

147

he definitely has a glove.

As fast as Pierre is, how can he get beat in a DP by 10-15 feet. He would have to bunt ist right at an infielder. Almost impossible!

160 so, no?

157 - He didn't, and neither did Hu. That's not going to stop Derek, though.

Aflac Trivia:

Greg Maddux...?

maybe it's rookie jitters but Hu hasn't impressed much with the leather.

Marty not liking the 90's Dodgers kind of baffles me, I mean we had guys like Mondesi, Piazza, Karros & so on, just thinking out loud.

161 Yes he does. I can't help think that he could be very effective on some team that has a low payroll. I can't understand why people like Valdez and Young are not the stuff of trades for teams trying to lose expensive players in their prime. It must be that there are GMs around who believe you must trade hipo position players to get prime players reaching their payday. There can't be many GMs that stupid, can there?

I have to believe that if Mark Grudzielanek could become an acceptable second baseman, anybody can.

Andy's song makes me laugh. forever and for always. For this reason alone, please don't trade LaRoche.

169 Soriano disagrees. Man that guy was brutal.

Bonds looks to be in a lot of pain. I'm not sure if he goes out for more. His last AB as a Giant could be a 1U groundout.

Bonds is going to keep going it appears.

169 Someone wanted his bat I guess. And you sure wouldn't want to see him at ss or even 3rd. Poor Grubsack.

166 Last night, not a single ball was hit near Hu. He did double-clutch a possible-DP relay throw, but I didn't think that ball was hit hard enough to get it anyway. What has Hu had to field tonight (I'm not watching, but the play-by-play tonight has only an IF hit to SS) ?

hey, you guys don't think Kent looked like a large chipmunk running to home yesterday?

Valdez could have been claimed off waivers earlier in the season, at no cost. He wasn't. Young will be traded for a middle reliever, next year. We will argue over whether the fact that he was traded for a middle reliever means he wasn't worth more than one. I can't wait!

176 - I only remember teeth. Big, white teeth.

175

Lowe gave up a pretty hard hit ball up the middle (looked playable) that just went thrue Hu's glove.

Man, how come I always come in late for the rock n' roll threads?

Brock, were you at the Who Hollywood Bowl show two days after Entwhistle died? That was tremendous and emotional. I was expecting a mess - and saw greatness. Hats off to Pino Paladino for getting ready with one rehearsal.

And I love watching Zak Starkey go wild a la Moon. As a kid, he took lessons from Keith, ya know.

Feliz boots a grounder by Kouzmanoff and the Padres get a run. They lead 3-1 in San Francisco.

Hairston was given a hit though.

179 Sample size: one. Sort of amazing to have Lowe on the mound and so little work for the SS.

Jeff Kent wouldn't have been out on that interference call.

for the record I like Wilson Valdez a lot I'd take him on my team any day (instead of RM2) I've just always like the guy.

49 Oh, (Jon) lord ?

He was safe at second--he was safe at first!!!

So you wanna be a rock & roll star . . .

http://tinyurl.com/2ugax7

Greene singles in two and it's 5-1 Padres, so the three-way tie for the wild card looks more unlikely.

But Arizona has to be sweating.

I wouldn't mind having Valdez on the team any day in September. But he doesn't belong on the 25 man roster. He's hitting .224/.250/.293, this year. That's ten OPS points better than his career average.

Lowe is giving us a pretty good start. But not playing Martin, Kemp, Kent, Gonzalez,and Abreu could be construed as crippling our offense. Personally I would rather see the younger players play. But I am uneasy about the motivations.

7-1 Padres. I guess I will go back to the game in L.A.

Hurdle looks like a corrupt prison guard in some '70s prison film.

yeah, I was gonna say, 132 RBI jumps out when looking at Hollidays #s.

Was Ethier out at third on an FC some sort of baserunning gaffe?

194 - Interference on a check-swing 'single.'

189

I guess it depends oh how you'd view it, I really get upset at bad fielding plays, I'd take him on my team just for his glove, but I hear you.

194 - I guess I should elaborate. Ethier was debating whether or not to go to 3rd, and happened to get in Tulowitzki's way on a (very) slow roller. No one's fault, really.

Josh Fogg is doing a # on the Dodgers so far...

Fogg pitches around Delwyn, lol.

199 - He's a .500 hitter; he's dangerous!

so I guess Peavy will get a shot at winning 20 this year it seems, yes?

160 - so, you're saying it's a wash?

btw, did I miss anything in the first six innings?

"You think about all those games at the beginning of the year with Nomar at first..."

I try not to, Vin. But thanks.

A three run BOMB here would be sweet.

this is an interesting rally...

205 - Or a grand slam, but a double will do. I'm not greedy :D

This is the problem with the Dodgers' kids, they just don't have any plate discipline. They need to learn from their elders, like Nomar and company.

204 - what was the rest of that sentence? Just the context would be nice.

208 - and Juan Pierre especially.

That was a terrible call.

197 Thanks sporky.

kidding me? andre?

211
On the second strike.

Sigh. Oh well. That looked like a rally, smelled like a rally, but we were deceived.

Did we ever decide who KG16 is? Neither Kevin nor Kip Gross wore 16. Is there a big list, somewhere, of Dodgers by number?

Or is it a secret?

213/214 - the first and second strikes were questionable at best...

Yeah that second strike call was bizarro - it was both high and outside. Other than that, definitely a strike. Then Ethier obliged Fogg on the next one.

213 Both Loney and Andre were at a huge disadvantage. The ump kept calliing that sinker that was way outside for a strike.

what's the winning streak record AT THE END OF A SEASON? the Rockies seem to be on a role...

216 - KG are my initials. 16 was my number when I played a variety of sports (baseball, soccer, waterpolo)

No actual baseball reference

209 Oh, he was just reciting history. "And then Nomar moved to third and Loney came up" or something to that effect.

But I draw my own inferences from the retelling of the first base saga. Vin hasn't exactly been shy about his Loney fixation.

216 - didn't SABR come out with a book of players by team*uniform number?

So Peavy is at 71 pitches through 6. If you're Bud Black, you pull him with a 6-run lead and turn the game over to your very reliable bullpen and then have Peavy in better shape to start on 3 days rest in Milwaukee on Sunday if need be?

Or do you start Brett Tomko on Sunday?

If the Dodgers lose tonight, they would finally be alone as the team with the 16th best record, thus securing their first round draft pick for next year.

216 Not a baseball reference at all. It's Kid Gavilán, currently fighting the 16th round for all eternity.

223
There is a book called "Baseball by the Numbers" but it isn't a SABR publication.

I wish Lowe could have pitched like this a week and/or two ago when the Dodgers were still in this thing, but this is more typical with his season before his hip problems. Pitch well, little support.

What happened to Ethier? The great .300 hitter from last season? He's got to be more than a flash in the old pan.

216 - I will also admit to rooting a little harder for guys that wear 16 (Lo Duca and now Ethier)

221- Right, but didn't you play with the Dodgers? Or did I misinterpret that? I thought you were the one who'd roomed with... now I forget who the player was, but some early 90's Dodger. Also that you had friends with the Angels.

222 Vin has a Delwyn Young mancrush too it appears. Kinda cute actually. He sounds like Father Mulcahy: "It's really quite remarkable."

224

Hell no! (If I were the manager) take Peavy out & have him start on 3 days res (71 pitches, pretty darn good) unless he wants to lose then give the ball to Tomko.

Good start for Derek Lowe. Too bad the Dodgers haven't managed any runs.

229 He's just a 290 hitter this season. (With a double tonight.)

Not quite a flash in the pan, but it will be nice to see him pick up the power a bit next season. Maybe playing more than half time will help.

224 Bob Timmermann

Play it one game at a time.

231 - nope, never played beyond little league. family friend was a journeyman pitcher in the 80s; went to high school with Lance Parrish's kid, and Greg Miller went to my high school long after I had left, but that's about it.

And in the early 90s, I was in jr high and high school

The grimace on Moeller's face says it all about the ump tonight.

Add Lowe: 7 IP, 7K, 0 BB, 2 R, 5 H, 89 pitches, 9/4 GB/FB. Those usually translate to a win.

229

Andre Ethier 2006:
.308/.365/.477

Andre Ethier 2007:
.288/.353/.457

I'd say that's within the standard deviation.

I think Grady should bring Blowberto in again now just so we can all turn the game off and get on with our lives.

Peavy back out for more. It's actually just the bottom of the 6th.

He has no Ks through 5.

Be nice to see Matt Kemp PH for Pierre here, but that would be too much to ask for.

PR Kemp and 2-1 with Pierre, please.

241

it looks like he's gonna bring in the bull Broxton though...

243 >>>> 244

235 I've always disliked the 3.5 tag. I think Ethier is a legit starting outfielder, just not in an outfield that starts Pierre and Gonzo. That's 2.0, -5, 3.5 across the diamond.

I say keep Sweeney and make salsa out of the Tomato for next year.

240

well considering Ned just wanted to get rid of Bradley I'm pretty sure he STILL thinks of it as a victory.

237- Okay. I was really hoping you were Kip Gross. But, okay.

4 more years of slappy.

248 The entire Navy doesn't attend the armed forces day in San Diego either.

ARE THEY GONNA SCORE tonight?

251 - sorry to disappoint.

248

Frip & the inner workings of his/her mind...

You raise a serious question though, from what I remember it's always bin Hispanic night & so forth...

248
Because the night is to honor people who do a lot of community work for other Japanese-Americans. Such as church groups, social organizations, and charitable societies.

So the title seems to make sense to me.

I'm sure the Japanese are glad to be lumped in with those other groups you included.

From Blue Notes:

Probably the most interesting part of the pregame came when Little was asked which young Dodger has impressed him most with his improvement. Go back 12 months, and that would be Matt Kemp. Little said his plate discipline, approach, and general quality of play have improved, though he's still a long way from being fully baked. The baserunning mistakes are there, but Little anticipates he'll be better down the road.

"He went through a spell there where he made some baserunning errors, and they came all in a bunch. Five or six in a ten day period, which is what makes them stand out in everyone's mind. But for every one of those, I think he's taken an extra base or stolen a base to create a run for us more times over."

249 I think that's pretty likely.

246 Alas, #9 < 0.

253 It's hard to attend a baseball game when you're getting loaded in TJ.

249. Keep in mind that Nomar will likely be playing the part of the Tomato next year. An 8 million dollar tomato.

At this stage of the year, there is no reason for Pierre to face the LOOGY at this point in the game.

And if it remains 2-0 and Broxton pitches after what happened last night, I may completely implode.

255- Hey, don't feel bad. Hardly anybody is Kip Gross.

I really think 248 is one of the most offensive things I've ever read here.

243 If you keep suggesting Kemp should bat for Pierre, we're just going to have to trade him. We just can't take this anti-Pierre dissension.

The Santa Anita Race track once had the whole Japanese community in it....

264 I'm just taking it as someone who has just fripped his lid...

264 I'm hoping it was poorly stated, but it rubbed me the wrong way.

After tonite, 4 more left...1 more win to reach that magical .500 mark...can we do it?

It's Bionic Wednesday.

just a reminder.

264 I don't know if it was so much offensive as just dumb. Especially for here. I can barely discern the politics of any of the regulars, but I suspect none of them would go on such a silly Andy Rooney-meets-Rush Limbaugh rant.

well Broxton looked sharp...

Angry Enders is my favorite Enders, But Angry Timmermann just scares the bejeezus out of me.

271
If Jeff Kent or Derek Lowe had said it, it would have been condemned 10 ways to Sunday.

271- The Ali G interview of Andy Rooney is one of my favorate things ever.

273
I'm being angry for two tonight.

275- Favorite*

274- The L.A sports media would find a way to blame it on Matt Kemp....

woah, D.Young looked safe but in all honesty I thought he was gonna be safe by a few steps...

safe. anyone else sick of seeing tulowitski make plays.

276- Congratulations! When are you due?

how did tulo not catch that one

Peavy gets his first K in the 7th.

He just wants a night for himself.

280
End of the regular season.

274

Hahaha.. (nice timing Lex)

274 Well, judging from the Times lately, they would blame it on the Japanese community for causing Kent and Lowe to feel disrespected.

Just in case, I hope the Dodgers distributed bubble gum cards to all the fans tonight. We don't want anyone respecting the wrong players.

Andy La Roche gets no love from the umps.

Is tonight "Special Umpire" night?

I'm really sure Frip didn't mean anything by it. Just an obersvation that, perhaps, wasn't fully formed and articulated before being stuffed in the tubes. Any kind of ethnic/observational humor is walking a serious tightrope. Chalk it up to a poorly-worded yet harmlessly intentioned joke.

/Reconciliation

This commercial with the Nomar van is kind of annoying.

287/288 - yeah, this ump seems to be a little tight against the Dodgers.

Saito, really?

I think Bud Black and Charlie Manuel don't mind Saito coming in.

If Colorado makes the playoffs, shouldn't they send a card and some flowers to the Dodgers?

Who gets home field advantage in a wild card-division winner divisional series match up if the wild card team has a better record?

290 Cuz we're playin' spoilerball.

I secretly have hoped all night that the Dodgers would lose. I want Colorado to pass San Diego.

I want Loney, Kemp, LaRoche and Broxton to do well, and Lowe and Gonzalez to do poorly, and then see if they blame Kemp.

But I kept it a secret. Look at him. He wouldn't even hurt a fly.

I wonder if Saito's thinking, "Fred Claus... Fred Claus... do I want to see that movie? Looks like it could be either funny or really dumb... Argh! I'm distracted!"

Look at him. He wouldn't even hurt a fly.

A boy's best friend is his mother...

290 You'd prefer Hernandez again?

293
The wild card team never gets the homefield advantage unless it's the World Series.

I deleted 248.

Remember when we were saying things such as,"Why does Grady like this Saito guy so much?"

From dodgers.com:

Kemp trade bait: That was the suggestion of one local columnist, but here is Little's reaction to that:

"Don't believe what you read or hear on the radio."

Little was outfielder Matt Kemp's biggest fan last year and Kemp has done nothing to diminish the support, even with the rash of baserunning mistakes he's made in recent weeks.

"In no way is Matt Kemp a finished product, but he's made a lot of progress in his plate discipline and learning how to play the game every day," said Little. "A lot of players learn from their mistakes. He will be a good baserunner. He went through a spell of running errors and they came in bunches, five or six in a five-day period. But for every one of them, there were extra bases he took many times over."

I am hoping for a five way tie between the Mets, Phils, Rox, Dbacks, and Pads. Since the Rox play the Dbacks, I think the Rockies will have to be either 1 back or 3 back before their series starts.

I assume Bob knows what will take place if the season ends like that, not that I'm asking.

It was a one-run game last night - following an off day - and neither Broxton nor Saito were used. Instead, we saw Roberto Hernandez. I just don't understand this, even if they "need the work"; maybe tomorrow will be a hold/save situation.

Yesterday was Japanese-American Community night at DS. Would have seemed appropriate to see Saito then. ;)

300 Did we? I don't ever remember thinking that, liked him right away, especially when compared to Baez and some of the other choices.

I also remember thinking, "Why is Hernandez in the game, or on the team for that matter?" but that was as recent as last night.

297 - no, it just seems strange to me to use Broxton and Saito when you're down 2 runs. There's Proctor, Meleon, Beimel, Houlton, Hull, and Stults that can be used.

298 - thanks, that what I figured, but my mind has gone into NBA mode

294- Plus it Colletti-proofs the first round draft pick. I'm right there with you. Except I'm watching the cockroach/lawsuit show on Fox, instead of the game.

coming up to bat:

1)Ethier
2)Moeller
3)Valdez

I'm pretty sure we'll see the Tomato for Moeller (or maybe Kemp) & I'm pretty sure Grady will bring in somebody from Wilson Valdez no?

If the Mets-Phils and DBacks-Rox-Pads all have the same record, there is a very long playoff.

First each division has a playoff. The East would take one day and the West would take two days.

The three losers would then play another two-day playoff to determine the wild card.

So now that the season's almost over, MLBTV's decided to inundate us with ads between innings, even though we've paid a fair amount for a subscription. Greedy buggers.

This one's for Jon.

"The Kids are Alright" is one of the greatest singles ever.

"The Who Sell Out" is the most brilliant concept album of the rock era.

"Tommy" is wonderful. I saw them play it live at Anaheim Stadium in 1970. Amazing. If you don't have the expanded "Live at Leeds" that devotes one disk to a live performance of Tommy from that era, you're missing something amazing.

"Who's Next" is the very definition of classic rock. People will listen to "Baba O'Reilly" in 100 years.

After that...I don't think the Who were quite as good, but Quadrophrenia, Who By Numbers and Who Are You all have some good songs. I personally have always loved "Slip Kid."

I'm more of a fan of the Kinks, Stones and Beatles, but when I'm in the right mood, there's nothing like the Who.

Just pointing out our unnecessary and selective use of edifying labels such as "community". Nothing to be offended about.

But I'll desist.

Chad Moeller looks like Clint Dempsey. I'd rather have Dempsey.

Wow, Jeff Kent on the bench laughing, yukking it up with a couple of teammates. Guess that's a good sign. ...?

313 - With who?

291 I think they would have liked it better last night.

304
During spring training and then when we called him up from Triple A.

This ump is absolutely atrocious. But I guess he's been consistently atrocious.

311
That didn't work out so well did it?

313 Laughing... during a loss!? What a disgrace to the game of baseball.

313 Maybe Kemp snuck him some Ecstasy.

I wonder if Gonzo finds this insulting?

were gonna get blanked by the Rox, not good...

dkminnick

I completely spaced on your The Who question earlier. I went to the Hollywood Bowl show the year later, after Entwistle had been gone. I missed the show immediately after his passing.

I saw Gary Miller at that show, and he went with the "Hawaiian shirt tucked into the khaki shorts with docksiders" look. Terrible...Just terrible.

320 Hah hah. Now there's an image! "Here, Jeff, try a cup of my mushroom soup..." 314 Couldn't tell, probably a couple of veterans.

Way to get on base Slappy McDribble!

Forgetting about the game in progress...

Wow, is Grady Little really that high on Kemp? (according to the Dodger Notes on Dodgers.com) Little is a cooler manager than I thought.

I will watch Bull Durham sometime next month in his honor.

It appears from watching these Dodgers that it's advantageous to play a team that has just recently been knocked out of the race as opposed to a team that has been out of the race for some time.

If the Padres can help the Cubs clinch on Friday, they might be playing a very uninspired team over the weekend.

As soon as Saenz hit that, I said "he's too slow to beat that out." Huh.

Wow, I never expected Saenz to make it.

That must have been one perfectly placed swinging bunt.

Wait. Kemp is pinchrunning and Pierre is batting???????????? (to infinity).

LOL. I've never seen Saenz beat one out like that. Hilarious. That almost makes up for the bad call vs. Delwyn.

why pierre!

that's pretty weird isn't it, dwib singles from Gonzalez & Saenz, woah...

331 Well you have to have someone pinch run for Saenz and they have hardly anyone fleet left to do that.

I don't think I've listened to the Who more than a couple of times. I fully expect to be banned for this, but it was hard to listen to anything when one brother played electric guitar and another the drums.

333

why not?

And Nomar on deck? Grady has officially gone insane.

The one thing we know Kemp doesn't do well: Run.

The one thing we know Pierre doesn't do well: Anything involving a baseball.

And before I can even finish....

are we first round proof yet?

Dead team walking.

I'd be less surprised if Pierre hits it out than if saenz hits an infield single.

Too bad you can't have Pierre jump in and run for Saenz and have Kemp bat for him.

Well, it doesn't matter now. Pierre is one of the least clutch hitters I can remember, without look at stats anyway.

Probable NL standings after tonight

88-70 Arizona
87-71 New York
87-71 San Diego
86-72 Colorado
86-72 Philadelphia
83-75 Atlanta
83-75 Chicago
81-77 Milwaukee

331

& yesterday bringing in R. Hernandez...

maybe Grady was to embarrassed to take Pierre out, but boy....

I guess they could've pinch hit Nomar for Pierre but that hardly gives me any more confidence.

Well, night. It was fun hanging with y'all through yet another loss.

342 Clutch doesn't exist.

339 We don't need draft picks. We need 27-31 year old guys that can "help the kids learn without the petty jealousies and personal agendas that sometimes affect older players."

I'm just fast-forwarding to the part where Boston wins this year's World Series.

It's not like we're in the middle of a pennant race or anything, what ever. But Grady does make head scratching moves some times that's for sure...

346 So Pierre can only drive an automatic is what you're saying?

(An automatic out with runners on base, that is.)

I think the Indians have a good chance this year as long as Vaughn trusts the fastball and Cerrano gets his mean streak back.

Jamie Sommers version 2.0 does not make the
classic 'bionic sound' that original did.

She is silent when using her new powers.

351 We're contenders now!

351 You've already named two more Cleveland Indians than I am able to.

Very odd. After Gonzo reached, I bat Kemp or Kent, not Oldmedo. And after Saenz reaches, a power bat has to hit for Pierre, handedness be damned.

we'll we are in 15th place overall. Toronto and MIL are our competition.

I don't understand why Pierre can't sit for a few nights while younger players play CF. If the only worry is his consecutive game streak, take him out after the 1st. All teams give their players a rest once they are out of contention.

Gurnick's notes:

Penny has been nursing a lower abdominal injury most of the second half.

358 My favorite time of year. When all the nagging injuries come out, excuses are made, and players are lauded for their toughness.

I hear Nomar played the whole year with diverticulitis. And the shingles.

Derek Lowe pitched the second half with a ruptured spleen.

Luis Gonzalez played despite fallen arches.

Jeff Kent suffered all year with irritable bowel syndrome.

Mark Hendrickson battled chronic tumescence.

Matt Kemp - severe diaper rash.

Brett Tomko faced off against restless leg syndrome.

I write for a small local paper here in the San Gabriel Valley called the Mid-Valley News. My latest article is about this Colletti-induced debacle:

http://zaybot.com/mvs/content/view/182/62/

Mark Sweeney contracted SARS.

Juan Pierre played all year with a bad arm, a lousy eye and a general lack of talent.

Oh, I guess I don't get how this game is played.

Saito toughed out an aggressive strain of typhoid fever.

Juan Pierre played most of the season with nagging Fox-Fordyce disease.

(You'll have to look that one up, and then you'll laugh. I'm glad returned to check this blog, obsessively.)

Olmedo Saenz apparently played the entire second half of the season fighting through Lycopersicon esculentum.

Lowe Goes After Hu (and Grady).

After being questioned about having the kids play behind him says:
"Pun intended, it doesn't matter Hu is playing behind you, you know that the other team is fielding their best players."

{he was questioned on the impact of Little having "call ups" field a ground ball pitcher)

366 Awesome. The more people speak out, the better. Nice job.

Jeff Kent has Munchausen's by Proxy. He kills the kids to draw attention to himself.

374 Apparently it is contagious, see 373

374: Thanks. Ned's been getting a free pass from his media buddies in an attempt to protect one of their own.

Of course, now I'm ticked because I found a typo and it already went to the editor.

373 Seriously, Jeff Kent apparently was resting his jammed kneee, Abreu is hurt, Furcal is hurt - just who exactly did Derek Lowe expect to be playing middle infield tonight - Wilson Valdez AND Ramon Martinez?

375 It's not often that Munchausen by Proxy makes for good baseball humor. But it fits.

Mark Sweeney played despite a bout with mumps.

373
Does Derek really want to leave?

155 - I was half-joking when I said that. Derek can jump in a lake.

I saw a commercial for, "The Comebacks."

It looks like the worst movie ever made.

Jayson Addcox on mlb.com, game recap:

Chin-Lung Hu, who started in place of injured shortstop Rafael Furcal, mishandled a grounder by Matt Holliday allowing Matsui to score.

Of course, it was ruled a hit. Nice reporting.

376 I have a good friend who plays MLB, a couple of friends who are in the minors, and a really good friend who covers baseball for a Midwest paper.

They despise jock-sniffers like Plaschke. To them, he's a dork who never played competitive baseball, and is a joke. I've spent hours with major and minor league baseball players, in a number of organizations, and they paint a picture quite different. Bill Plaschke doesn't know the first thing about baseball...He's just a non-athlete who cozies up to baseball players because it makes him feel cool.

Bill Plaschke is the high school dork who got a writing job.

381 I have a "Comebacks" T-shirt! My exchange student left it for me; she received it after being in a crowd scene shot at CS Fullerton in December.

So, it would have been better off if Hu didn't get to the ball at all (as most likely the case would have been for Furcal, Martinez, et al)?

No one on this current roster and about 25 others around MLB would have made that play.

Jeff Kent also battled Rose Rosette Disease and a severe aphid infestation.

383
Aren't most sportswriters like that?

Not that I think that is a bad thing at all.

377 Actually, Lucille II has a sore elbow also, doesn't he? So, really, it was either Hu/Valdez, Hu/Young(!?) or Valdez/Young(!?) at middle infield. I think D. Young at 2B with D. Lowe on the mound might have to be rated PG-13.

383-We have a press pass at the paper and we just haven't used it. I'm just not into the idea of running down into the locker room because I like to write my column from the perspective of a fan. I feel that would be compromised by going down on the field and hanging around the players.

I've met enough big leaguers, former big leaguers and former pros not to be awestruck by them. This isn't my main occupation, so I guess I have that advantage over a guy like Plaschke, who needs to make nice with as many people as possible so that they'll talk to him.

368 is some funny stuff.

373 BTW, is there a link for that quote, or was it heard on the radio?

389 I agree with Brock; good article, the more sane voices the better.

389
Objectivity in sports writing, what a novel concept.

Nice article, by the way.

Sorry about the rule 1 violation in 393. Please delete it.

Paraphrased: I cannot believe people are really saying that Hu misplayed that ball. I was amazed that Hu got in front of it at all.

392, 394: Thanks for the kind words.

I wonder if Bill Plaschke realizes what a tool he is. And I don't mean "tool" in the hipster sense. I mean it in the "instrument" sense.

Plaschke loves to cozy up to the Dodgers Vets because he's a jock-sniffer. He loves being in good graces with the established vets. He's a sycophant, a wimp, and a company man.

Its not going to be funny to the Yankees when they lose Arod to us and not even get a first round pick.

Teeehehehe!

395 Just Jayson Addcox and 179 , that I've seen. But Addcox is paid to write his stuff. Bluebleeder might consider retracting based on your observation.

398 Trying to prime your dream machine before you hit the pillow?

400

It's going to be a glorious night sleep.

On the post game show, Psycho played the tape of Hu sliding to get the ball, with a leg collapsing underneath him, thus slowing him down. Psycho opined that diving for the ball would have kept the run from scoring. He also opined that Furcal "would have surrounded" that ball.

I seldom watch the post game show. Does Psycho show similar footage of Gonzalez or Pierre allowing a crucial runner to advance with a weak throw?

LA seems to have sports reporters with more PVL blinders than several other cities. I remember particularly, in the last D-Back series, Sutton and Grace chortling about a recent occasion when Grady played Saenz at first over Loney. As an out of area Extra Innings viewer, I hear much more positive stuff about the kids from opponents' broadcasters than from much of the LA media.

Man I hate when the ESPN top play is against the Dodgers. Thank you Troy Tulowitzky

403 - since Tulowitzky is a former Dirtbag, I don't mind so much. Plus, that was a great play.

402 - I've watched a little bit of the post game shows lately (if only to remind myself why I don't normally)... Psycho says lots of strange stuff, but I don't think I've ever seen him break down a play like that. That's usually something that Kennedy does. He's usually pretty fair with his assessments - when you can understand them. I didn't see the play, or the analysis, so I can't really say what he's talking about.

From the LaRoche chat:

jacmacho: Who do you hang out with on the team when you're not on the field?

LaRoche: A lot of the guys I came up with, Russell Martin, Matt Kemp, James Loney and Dewlyn Young. Also Joe Beimel and Brad Penny. Mostly it's the younger guys. Chin-Lung Hu and I will go out to sushi together. It's a good group of guys and I like hanging out with them.

I hope they will continue to have the opportunity to do so.

404 But on the best play of the night shouldn't the runner be, you know, out?

The second half of 2007 may have been one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember. First, the Dodgers ment down. Then there is the meritless debate about the effectiveness of the kids. Then the Yankees, who I hate, come back from the dead to make the post season. Meanwhile, the Mets who I like are turning to mud and Shawn Green announced he is considering retirement. Not much baseball going my way. Only one thing can salvage this season.

9/30/07. Asile 14, Row H, Seat 6-9. Hobie Cat. (Frank I summon you to put the fix in.)

The Master weighs in on the season:
http://tinyurl.com/2ec2s7

>>Scully said his personal philosophy is to never second-guess the manager on the air.

"Because it doesn't help anything anyway," he said. "And let's face it, I'm trying to help this team. I'm trying to get people to come see it. I don't want to dwell on negatives. And I don't think that's my job anyway. My job basically is between the lines. I've always thought: That's enough."

To Scully, that includes the rift between older and younger players that became public last week.

"When I think of the individual players who had problems, I was never aware of them," he said. "I didn't know Steve Howe was having his [drug] problem, I wasn't aware Bob Welch was having a [drinking] problem. Because I respect their privacy.

"I don't want to get too close to the players. I don't want a strong friendship to perhaps interfere with what I see. Maybe I would start protecting a guy who was not playing well. It's just not good. Red Barber taught me that, and I've always followed it: 'Don't get close to the players.' So I say hello to all of them and move on.

"So I'm not aware of those things. And I don't think it would help anyway. All I'm trying to do is describe. I don't see how, if there was a problem, that would be a help at all."<<

Scully used to vacation in the Catskills with Jackie and Rachel Robinson. Of course, he was younger than the Robinsons were. Now he's old enough to be Loney's great grandfather, so I'm sure the opportunity for camaraderie is a lot less.

408 "I don't want to get too close to the players. I don't want a strong friendship to perhaps interfere with what I see. Maybe I would start protecting a guy who was not playing well. It's just not good. Red Barber taught me that, and I've always followed it: 'Don't get close to the players.' So I say hello to all of them and move on."

Hmmmmmmm. Methinks there may be certain L.A. sportswriters that could stand to learn this lesson.

409 On the other hand, Jeff Kent is as curmudgeonly as an 80-year old.

So I'm reading the Kemp thread on mlbtraderumors and it makes me a sad panda to see all the different ways mlb teams can get Kemp for 25 cents on the dollars.

Kemp for Cliff Lee plus other Indians trash!

I heard a pre-game interview with Howe a few days before his first suspension, and it sure sounded to me like he had a drug problem.

So I'm looking at Furcal's contract and I see the 4m payment in Jan of 2009. But his 2008 Salary is still only 13 mil.

He could be tradeable since the 4mil payment would have to be paid by LA anyways. What team wants a 13mil shortstop coming off an injury plagued year though?

What are deciding factors for draft slots if teams have the same record?

After nearly 24 hours of having the vapors, I'm officially over the Kemp is traded speculation.

I now think the whole scenario has been blown out of proportion. Plaschke talked to someone who has an angle on all this that is not necessarily the right one. I'm not saying Ned won't trade Kemp, but I don't think it's like Plaschke depicted it, like he's on a mission to trade him.

The last thing Ned or McCourt want is to be Pedro Martinez-style embarrassed. That haunts your whole career. Cooler heads will prevail.

I think what will happen next year is some kind of playoff among Kemp, Young and Ethier to anchor the two spots not reserved for Juan Pierre. If there's a PVL in our future, he'll be a third baseman.

Part of my confidence comes from commenter Branch Rickey, who seems to have sources at least as good, probably way better, than Plaschke's.

The race for the # 15 draft slot

Toronto has one more game with balt then 3 game series with tampa. They are one game ahead of us, so it looks pretty good they will finish with more wins then us.

Milwaukee is another matter. They start a 4 game series at home against the Padres. If they can split, I think we will secure a first round pick.

Of all the kids, if anyone could use some more seasonong, I think its LaRoche. As such, I agree if we go for some PVL it will be 3B, Mike Lowell or Troy Glos but given the Boston connection I'll say Lowell.

BYW, where will Repko be playing next year?

418

Then what do you do with Nomar?

question, is Miguel Cabrera even the best player on his team?

I don't know, I like the way LaRoche has looked, especially defensively.

418 Perhaps Florida?

So far, I think D. Young has a nice head start over Repko for the fifth outfielder's spot. (Because you know Ned is going to sign a PVL as the fourth.)

420 This year, absolutely not.

422

I just checked HanRam's stats and holy snikes, I can't believe how much he has cut his K rate down in only one year. I wonder how close will he come to achieving 40/40 in his career.

419. Have Jeff Gilooly pay him a visit.

The most-rumored deal, Santana for Kemp, Kershaw and someone else, makes no sense because it's a one-year rental. No one will bite if that's the kind of asking price Minnesota will put on him. I have no doubt Santana will insist on testing the market after 08. There will be no hometown discount for whoever nabs him. We can get him for that price and give up a draft choice, if we wait a year.

If Kemp goes out the door, or Kershaw, it'll have to be for someone we control for at least two seasons.

But who would think a one-year Santana rental was a great deal, worth giving up bubble-gum-challenged prospects for? How would this talk get going? Well, the agents for Jeff Kent, Derek Lowe and Rafael Furcal, to name three players who are in the walk years next year. That's where this is coming from, I'll bet. Either that or Minnesota, or Santana's agent who would also love to put his guy on a pennant winner heading into free agency.

425

I think its a great deal. That is what your minor league system is for; to help the big league club.

-Derek Lowe

425 - I was kicking around foolish trade possibilities earlier today, and one idea popped into my head that was just the right amount of crazy that I could see Colletti consider it...

Kemp, Kershaw, and La Roche for Colón, Figgins, and Willits (or some other marginal young out fielder).

Really, I hope that there isn't any trade involving any of the young guns this off season, but I just get the feeling that something absurd like this will happen. On the bright side, I'd get to see Kemp, Kershaw, and La Roche play all the time in Anaheim, so that would be cool.

According to ESPN, you know who isn't scheduled to play this weekend at the Stadium. I have mixed feelings about this

Bonds looked to be in a lot of discomfort tonight and he wasn't moving around very well.

429 - as much as I dislike the guy, I've grudgingly accepted how good he really was. It's probably a good thing that his final game was in SF and not in LA.

420 Yep, at least until Hanley moves off short.

Last night's loss eliminated scareduck and Greg Brock from the Pre-Season Prediction Competition. The following 9 posters are still alive:

marty 80
bill crain 81
d4p 82
trainwreck 83
clair malone-evans 83
joeyp 84
humma kavula 84
schoffle 84
regfairfield 84

It's annoying that none of the blame for this season's demise is being directed at Furcal/Pierre.

Dodger MLB OPS Rankings by Spot in Lineup:

#1: 25th in MLB
#2: 29th in MLB

There is some hilarious stuff in this thread.

And LAT, I'm pulling for you and the Hobie.

414- that injury plagued shortstop was also 2nd in the majors in Range Factor on a club with the 3rd highest K/9 rate in MLB, 2nd highest in the NL.

433 Blame to Furcal would be unfortunate. He was injured; the Dodgers knew he was injured (he was not hiding it) and a decision was made to play him - so I don't see how he gets any of the blame for his production being a career worst year. Personally, I think playing him through his injury was probably the right thing to do, given his defense. The problem, as it turned out, was sticking him at the top of the order - at least after it was clear he was not going to be able to produce offensively. The point being, whatever his production - management, not Furcal has to take the hit on that one.

Pierre sucks. Why most baseball people can't recognize that is beyond me.

436
Blame need not be malicious. His offensive production was bad, whether it was his "fault" or not. It hurt the team. It's fine to hold Management accountable for not moving him out of the top of the order, but his production (or lack thereof) should still be identified as one of the primary reasons the team struggled on offense.

437 OK. "Blame" typically means something different for merely "reason" or "contribution". But if that is all you meant by it - a mere statistical notation - sure.

436, yeah. Plus you can't have even one bad defensive player in the middle infield and have a noodle arm in center. That's one thing that ought to be really clear after this season. Kent set off a bad dominoe effect, because usually the 2B has speed as well as range, so there was a perceived need for a base stealer. Plus the only other place to put Kent you'd be blocking Loney. Pierre ought to go down as one of the worst Dodger aquisitions ever.

Can the Dodgers trade Plashke, Little, Coletti, Kent, Pierre and McCourt to the Padres for Milton Bradley? Maybe to the Saints for Reggie Bush?

The crazy thing is that Pierre now has 1434 hits. If he remains healthy throughout his current contract, he will have about 2200 hits when he leaves the Dodgers. I think that's likely, actually (barring major injury).

Now we enter the realm of the unlikely-but-possible. At that point, Pierre will be entering his age-34 season. Wouldn't he have to be looking to get 3000 hits for his career? If he reaches it, would the writers elect Juan Pierre to the Hall of Fame?

Again, it's unlikely. Pierre's, um, skills, such as they are, are too likely to fade quickly when they go. Still, it's entirely imaginable. Hall of Famer Juan Pierre. The mind boggles.

440- no because Milton Bradley will be a free agent next year

and by next year I mean in a month and a half

436. I give no credit to management or Furcal for playing injured. I don't know how long it would take to heal but if you shut him down for a month at the begining of the season would his production for the other five months not sucked? I would rather have had him at 100% for 4/5 of the season than 70% for the whole season. Further, if they could not shut him down because there was not a suitable backup for a month, that is on Ned.

439. To be fair, while most 2B do not have cement feet, they don't have Kent's power either.

To be fair, while most 2B do not have cement feet, they don't have Kent's power either

slug
–noun

1. what Kent does.
2. what Kent is.

444. Oh yeah. I think Kent was actually an OK move. Professional hitter and all that. Even turns a pretty decent and consistent play. But I do think that he's one reason they went after Pierre. I still sort of like Kent, curmudgeon and all. But that stuff he said was stupid and way out-of-date on being useful. The best quote out of it all for me was the "who says he's a leader?" That really rang true for me, where as Kent's words just seemed like whining.

Visions of A-Rod in a Dodger uniform are dancing in everyone's heads these days. So I hate to be the bucket of cold water, but all of NYC is very warm and fuzzy for A-Rod at the moment. He's the toast of the tabloids, and he's returning the affection: On the radio this morning, one of the shows had a quote from A-Rod saying that (paraphrasing), he was happy to be in New York, he loves the city, it feels like home to him, it's always felt like home, and he couldn't remember what it was like to play anywhere else.

Of course, we all remember JD Drew's comments last year. And I'm sure Alex is just one lousy playoff series from being scalped by the NY press again. But I wouldn't count on A-Rod leaving the Bronx.

I was taken back today hearing am570 Rogan, Simers & Tracy wont be doing there morning show anymore? I thought they were o.k. Fred Rogan is a champ on the radio.

373

the last couple of days D-Lowes made some bizarre comments it almost seems like he's from another planet these days.

447 - NYC media has already tagged him as "less than clutch," so I suspect the damage -- however much it matters -- is done. The real decision for A-Rod will hinge on whether there's a real market for him this winter, and Boras has already determined that, I'm sure. You're spot on in referencing Drew's situation last year.

Are Boras and A-Rod sure there are teams out there willing to pay the slugger?

They'd better be.

448. Did they give a reason for ending the show. I liked their show because it was focused on local sports issues and there was a lot of Dodger, Laker, Clipper, USC and UCLA talk.

450

Q: What is the difference between Plaschke and Don LaFontaine?

A: LaFontaine has an unmistakable, sinister voice.

451

what I heard is that they were only hired to do the morning show till December & they hired some new people already so they decided to give them the boot early.

What would the clubhouse be like where there is a $33,000,000 a year position player surrounded by 5 $400,000 a year position players?

If the Yankees win the World Series would that make it easier or harder for AROD to leave the Yankees?

Jon's a star.

(Us too a little bit!)

http://tinyurl.com/39ux9e

If Yankee fans want AROD back next year do they dare boo him if he has another bad playoff?

455 - Arod: "This feels like home. It's hard to believe that I played for another two organizations. So much has happened to me here - adversity, some success - that I feel like anything but New York feels weird for me now," Rodriguez said.

Until he opts-out, of course.

Until he opts-out, of course

Yep. "Feeling like home" won't put food on the table.

Diamondbacks set to try and avoid the sweep against the bucs in a few minutes. Pirates are trotting out failed 2001 8th overall pick John Van Benschoten against Brandon Webb. Van Benschoten is 0-6 .93 K/BB 46 ERA+ and his BB/9 at Fangraphs is literally off the charts. He apparentley was a power hitting prospect in high school and closer. After the Pirates drafted him they converted him to starter. He has since torn his labrum in each shoulder. These are the David v. Goliath moments I really love and even if Matt Kemp and Andy LaRoche are traded for garbage and I am forced to swear off the Dodgers at least there will be Van Benschotens to root for.

LaRoche saw Van Halen. That was my first concert ever. Van Halen 1984. I was 13 and it was at the fourm.

Poor Andy. I saw Van Halen in their prime!! He was not even born yet! The Van Halen he just saw was the 2007 Luis Gonzales version. I saw the 2007 A-rod version..

And no, I have no desire to see the 2007 Van Halen.

460 well it looks like Melvin just switched to Owings due to a possible oncoming rain delay.

I am sitting in the Dugout Club tonight. Even though I know it is unlikely, I'm hoping that Frank McCourt might be there and I can "casually" chat with him. If this is the case, what should I say? I was thinking something along the lines of:
This is only one fans opinion, but I feel that I speak for a sizable group of dedicated Dodger fans when I say the biggest mistake we feel you could make would be to trade any of the great young players who have come up together through the farm system. You have the chance to build a legitimate dynasty that will rival any in sports, but in order to do so, you have to protect Kemp, Loney, Andy, Billz, Broxton, Kershaw and help them grow into the superstars that they will certainly become.
Also, sign Arod.

Drew homered in the first and AZ leads 1-0.

If the Pitt-AZ game is David vs. Goliath, I would bet on Goliath.

453 - http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/archives/2007/09/klac_patrick_in.html

Van Benschoten is now terrified of throwing strikes. That ball Drew hit was destroyed.

463

The last two words should be good enough. I'd just say "I love Matt Kemp, I think he's one of the more awesome guys on the team... but I'd buy like a whole season of tickets if you signed A-Rod, and I'd get my friends to buy whole seasons too!"

Enthusiasm, my friend.

465 Funny you should say that because I actually bet my coworker 10 bucks on David +1.5. Not feeling good about it right now.

uh oh; the way I phrased that sounds like I'd rather have Arod over Kemp... I should say "I love Matt Kemp, etc etc, and I think he'll be great for many years. I also hope you add Arod, etc etc."

This line from MLB Traderumors is great...

Then there's Bill Plaschke, who feels Kemp's power and speed "have been negated by silly at-bats and baserunning mistakes." By my calculation Kemp would have to make 742 baserunning mistakes per year to negate his .331/.364/.509 line.

470 I think you would rather have Arod over Kemp. I'm the biggest Kemp fan around, but if I had the choice between the two, Arod would be the man. Now if we could have both and get rid of Furcal instead, perfect.

432

I finally know what all those figures mean. For the longest time I thought you were tracking how many posts people were making in a thread. I will now go hang my head in shame.

After the way the Dodgers finished the year and with the negative press from youth versus age, and the Angels winning, the Dodgers need a $33,000,000 marketing program to get fans excited about next year.

Trading a couple of under 25 year olds for another team's unsignable is not a marketing program that can erase the taste of this year's ending.

The taste that refreshes looks like this:
Furcal
Young
Loney
AROD
Martin
Ethier
Kemp
Abreu

Billingsley
Kershaw
McDonald
Cain
Penny/Lowe

Yes, Pierre and Lowe for Cain and Wilson.

474 - Cain?

Dan Patrick seems way to serious for my taste but maybe he's different on the radio.

476
Maybe he meant "Cane." CBS has been publicizing that show a lot.

It's 3-0 AZ in the second.

Do the Pirates have a pitching coach?

Maybe he meant "Dean Cain". If a punter from Nebraska can play in the MLB, why not a quarterback from Princeton...?

I'd venture a guess that Colby still does pitcher coaching.

'Byrnsie' just got picked off.

479- Jim Colborn

480
Dean Cain was a defensive back in college I believe.

oh no he didn't never mind

well now he got picked off.

Didn't cain also set a record for interceptions in a game or something like that?

487 - A season, I think.

Dean Cain had an NCAA record (for Division 1-AA) at the time with 12 interceptions during the 1988 season.

474

Cain is never going to happen.

490 - I'd add him to Andrew's list yesterday of "players I'd trade Matt Kemp for" though.

Van Benschoten is out. 2.0 IP 6H 2BB 1K 4ER. So much for David. I guess the the next David Goliath matchup to look forward to comes later tonight starring Esteban Loaiza as David.

492

it's pretty rear (one would think) that the Rockies would sweep us in our home turf I don't think I can ever remember that happening, hopefully Loaiza gives us a good enough start.

436 "so [due to his ankle] I don't see how Furcal gets any of the blame for his production being a career worst year."

Actually, going on OBP which is the most important stat for a 1 or 2 guy, he's had two worse years, '01 & '02.

But anyway, I think his ankle "injury", doesn't really exists in any significant way. It's largely just his excuse for poor play.

I've lived with bad ankles and ankle injuries my whole life. About once a month I'm startled awake at night thinking I've injured my ankle again. I'm telling you, you can't play shortstop like he does with an injured ankle. The sudden lateral movement required would make it impossible, both physically and psychologically.

Bottom line, if he can make those super quick athletic plays at shortstop, he should be able to bat a ball. Enough with his "bad ankle".

I'm a little bummed. I just found out (reading a column in the Times) that next year is Vin's last on his contract. I know we don't get him for every game, but having him for none is flat out depressing.

If Nomar and Gonzo start tonight, I might seriously consider leaving the game in time to catch The Office.

Kevin, are you going to the game in person?

CNN.com has an article on its website about serious conditions that doctors off misdiagnose from innocuous symptoms.

Things that could lead to death.

It's an alert for hypochondriacs everywhere.

491 No way. Cain is terrific but no way do I want to see Kemp mashing in a Giants uniform, I don't care how good Cain is. That would make me ill. We'll trade them back Sweeney and cash.

496 With Loiaza pitching my confidence in the game is pretty low already, but you're right if you're there in person in particular it would be more fun to watch more of the kids. Nomar starting would be okay but not the both of them I hope. Maybe bring your Tivo to the game to tape it and stay home to watch The Office.

I mention Cain because I would rather have him than Santana as Santana would cost too much and I worry about the southernly direction his performance is taking.

The Giants need an infusion of talent. They are old. They have pitching depth. I would rather the talk be about getting someone elses young stud than giving away our young studs.

493 I'm thrilled they're pitching Loiza tonight. Nothing bad can happen. Either:

-- He's terrible, the Rockies win and if the Brewers beat the Padres, the Rockies are tied for the WC lead, which is something I want to see. The Rockies have been the best team in the NL since May. They are exciting. Unlike every other NL contender, they wouldn't be backing into the playoffs. They'd be the NL's best shot at winning the WS. Loiza pitching poorly would help bring about that desired outcome.

-- Loiza's good, and I feel slightly less annoyed about his presence on the 2008 roster.

499 - I never said I wanted to trade Kemp. In fact, he is in that lineup with Cain.

494 I don't think his ankle injury affected his entire season, but it can also take him awhile to get going and that made it even worse. He was the fire that ignited their offense last year and it can't be a total coincidence that he wasn't much of a factor this season. I've played with ankle injuries too and you can play through it but they are nagging, take a long time to heal - and it's possible he was gritting through it on defense with the adrenaline but at the plate when things are slowed down it can still affect your swing and your timing.

497

Yes I am.

502 I was referring to comment 491 , not yours.

But I probably combined multiple trade rumors into one.

At any rate, we definitely know that Cain is able (sorry), but I can't imagine the Giants trading him to LA for anything.

498- Link:

http://tinyurl.com/3amgsz

Here's the meme I hope every writer uses when talking about the possibility of the Dodgers getting Santana:

One. Year. Rental.

Look, I'd love to have him. But the asking price should not be the equivalent for a franchise player. We'd control him for one year. And then we'd be bidding against everyone, just like we could be doing after 2008.

I can just see the Plaschkes of our media demanding that Colletti trade Kemp or Loney to get "this generation's greatest pitcher." It's fool's gold I tell you. One fine year from Santana -- which is of course not guaranteed -- is not worth a bagful of great prospects.

One-year rental. One/Year/Rental. oneyearrental.com Learn it. Use it. Make Plaschke deal with it.

505 - I see that point of view, but Cain is awesome. I guess that's the type of value I'd want in a Kemp trade: young, dominant pitching.

508 - Boras isn't his agent; maybe he'd be open to an extension prior to hitting the market.

That Santana rumor probably has ZERO validity. It's unsourced and therefore almost certainly false.

In other news, anyone watch the Brazil-US world cup game this morning (if you Tivo'd it)? I did, mostly on fast forward. I won't spoil the result for you if you're watching it later but will say it featured the single worst yellow card call I've ever seen in my life.

Stanford alum alert: Trent Edwards is starting at QB for the woebegotten Buffalo Bills next Sunday vs. Jets.

Imagine our 2009 rotation if Santana is signed:

Santana
Billingsley
Kershaw
McDonald
Penny

512 "mostly on fast forward"

Yes, that's sort of the only way to watch it isn't it.

512
I think you can watch the match by just leaning on the Fast Forward button all the way through.

The closer we get to the offseason, the more I quiver in fear at the half-assed moves we are likely to make. This team should--but it likely won't--pick up A-Rod. Alas, Colletti's modus will continue to be (I'll bet you) "depth." And the trouble with his version of depth is that you're stuck with Esteban Loiaza. He wouldn't have the stones or the vision to deal a veteran (like Lowe or even Penny) for two or three young pitchers who could help us down the road. No, no, he's going to give us Loiaza. And Wolf, or someone like him. So instead of seeing McDonald we're going to have half a season worth of cruddy starts from the back end of our rotation, just as we did this year. Loiaza. If we're obligated to him next year he should get three starts before we punt. Instead, he'll go 2-10 and no one will quite recognize that those losses in May and June are as expensive as those in August.

That's what scares me, frankly.

516 Well I didn't want to fully spoil the result but that's about right, alas.

The US coach made a few questionable moves for that game and during it, but whatever...

518
How many people here besides underdog and I actually cared about the result of that match?

C'mon let's see a show of hands.

Hand raised

Well, if Greg, Hallux and a few others were here right now they'd probably raise their paws, er, hands. But that's probably about it.

And Kevin.

So did you see the yellow card call I'm talking about?

520
Hey, that's not a hand! Watch it!

523 Gives Kevin a yellow card for raising hand somewhere in the vicinity of another player.

I usually root for other countries / players to beat us, simply because it makes other countries so bleeding happy.

I watched 15 minutes of it live this morning before work.

521. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not like anyone else comes to mind when discussing the sport. It's not like a poster on this blog has the name of a famous soccer club or anything.

Rain delay in Pittsburgh. 6-0 DBacks. Micah Owings is 4 for 4 with 3 doubles.

527
There's a famous soccer club named Frip?

528 8-0?

529. Yes, it's Belgian I believe, their rivalry with Anderlecht in the 1930's rivaled Boca and River for bad blood and violence.

474 I thought you might be referring to Cain who slew Abel. He's been wandering the earth since almost the beginning of time; so he's got that PVL that Ned cherishes so much. While he may not greatly improve the locker room chemistry, I bet he has a wicked cut fastball and a deceptive delivery.

530
It's been easy to lose count.

532 And a, um, killer slider.

I have not watched it, but I might FFWD it over lunch. When does the yellow card happen? I want something new to be upset about

519. I´m very happy, Bob. Marta is the best!

532
Cain has certainly made his mark. Or did someone make it for him?

Simers would criticize Cain for not giving him a straight answer about who takes care of his brother.

517 - I'm willing to give Loiaza the benefit of the doubt going into next year. He's coming off an injury, next year he should be 100%. Plus we'll have Kuo back, hopefully. Schmidt is an open question, I'd like to see him back, but I suspect he will be joining Driefort as a minor league coach (that's what Driefort is doing now, right?).

I'm more than willing to move Lowe at this point.

Penny/Billingsly/Kuo/Loiaza/mystery starter. Not an entirely bad line up. With Hendrickson, Stults, and another spot starter. Then the July call up of Kershaw, and we are GOLDEN!

Marta is pretty awesome.

535 I think it was mid to late into the first half, maybe about ten mins left?

538
I don't believe Dreifort is a coach. His father, a professor at Wichita State, was at the SABR convention and mentioned that his son was getting an operation on his LEFT elbow.

538 I dunno, Lowe had his hip problem this year and is getting older and can be a nutball, but he's also been one of the most consistent starters in baseball over the past few years. With Schmidt as you say a mystery, Loiaza hard to count on, Kuo a mystery, I'd be loathe to give him up unless something great was coming back.

"If so, it also may be an indication of the type of influence Jeff Kent -- a clear Kemp detractor -- has with the owner's wife, Jamie McCourt, a confidant of the second baseman's."

542 What's that a quote from?

540 - I thought I had heard that he was going to give coaching a try, maybe it was just a rumor.

541 - I'm worried about Lowe's decline and his attitude. At the same time, if we've learned anything as Dodger fans in the last 15 years, it's that it doesn't hurt to have a lot of depth in the pitching staff, particularly the starting rotation.

542 Jamie and Jeffie, sitting in a tree, k-v-e-t-c-h-i-n-g...

Wow, of all the players for her to cuddle up with. I would think all the front-office gals would prefer Russell Martin, but I don't understand what women like.

540 Dreifort's getting another arm operation?? He hasn't even been pitching for years. Poor guy.

Derek Lowe, quoted by Gurnick mlb.com:

Lowe said this fourth-place finish will be tougher than the last one, "Because of the transition [to youth] during a pennant race," he said. "You kept hearing it would happen in 2008, then all of a sudden you see it happening in a race. You hope when it happens, [management] has the team's best interest, but it didn't work out as well as anyone wanted. We have to make sure it doesn't happen again.

"This could be pretty much the same team Opening Day next year. We have to find a way to put aside our differences and play as one. Not this group here and that group there. It's up to us players to figure it out. We have to see a different attitude from this team. It's not the most positive place right now. I believe everyone has to be on the same page. We can't act like it didn't happen."

The last paragraph can pass as sage veteran leadership. The Dodgers can't act like it didn't happen and the players do have to come to some agreement on how they are going to co-exist. They don't have to be buddies, but they do need to keep from the atmosphere from being poisonous.

545 Jamie likes the mustache, something Frank doesn't sport.

Tony Jackson quotes Lowe this way:

It's up to us as players to figure that out, and I know we will.

"Everybody wants to win. There is too much talent here for us to be a .500 team over the course of six months."

-----------------------------------------

It's partly cliche, partly party line, but finally a veteran is saying some of the right things.

I didn't care about the women's soccer match, but I did hear something about a player publically criticizing the coach to the press?

You kept hearing it would happen in 2008, then all of a sudden you see it happening in a race.

So Lowe was thinking 2007 would be the last time for the Dodgers to be in a race, then the Dodgers won't be competitive in 2008 so it would be OK to introduce the kids then?

Maybe we're just exhausted now from the Dodger diatribes, but a noon-hour cycle in posting?

549 - Tony Jackson is coming off as positively optimistic!

Now that the vets are inoculated against the kids, hopefully there'll be less griping in 2008.

The second part of Lowe's quote above is pretty spot-on. The first part makes me want to slap him. But then that's Derek Lowe in a nutshell.

550 Probably about his decision to start a different goalkeeper, which was entirely stupid.

551 You can also interpret it as Lowe thought the vets would perform well enough to hold off the kids until 2008, but Nomar's bat never really came around, esp. for power, and Loney had to be tried, LuGo, after a hot streak, fell into a slump, and Kemp had to be tried, esp. for team needing a power bat, and the transition was bumpy.

Listening to the Loose Cannons here locally in So Cal and Steve Hartman agrees that Grady Little has lost control of the Clubhouse and the best solution would be strong disciplinarian Kevin Kennedy. He states that Kennedy has had several opportunities to manage and has turned them down to stay in So Cal. Kennedy isn't the worst recommendation. Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton says the Dodgers should bring back the soon to be fired Jim Tracy. Their you go Jon. Enjoy.

Well, one good thing about the spat: at least Jon will have an easy time writing "Five Questions: Los Angeles Dodgers" next spring for the Hardball Times.

556 Lee "Hacksaw" Hamilton (not his real name) ... Fixed.

BTW, does anyone know why Hoffarth always references Hamilton this way (and he has for many, many years)?

556-It's hard to think of a pair of suggestions more horrible, and thankfully, less likely. Who would be worse than Jim Tracy? Kevin Kennedy. No, wait...One could go round and round between the two of them forever. Thankfully, neither one will be the next Dodger manager.

It's hard to second guess the transition from older players to younger ones in mid-stream. Nomar got hurt. Loney played very well in his place. Nomar was given the benefit of the doubt and moved to another position, and another young player was traded to facilitate that. He got hurt again, as did the only young player available to take his job. So they brought in another older player, Shea.

As for the outfield, the logjam there was apparent from Opening Day. Ethier was a bench player, until Kemp got hurt. Ethier played well, Kemp played well, Gonzalez had also played well. Mid-season comes, Gonzalez fades, Ethier gets very hot, Kemp is promising.

At no time was a veteran displaced by a prospect for any reason other than the veteran's injury. Whenever possible, Colletti brought in other veterans to replace the injured ones. Starting the prospects was his last resort in every case, and they had to outperform the veterans in order to keep their jobs, and even then, they were frequently benched.

On the pitching staff, Billingsley only became a starter because we didn't have enough starters. Little wanted to keep him in middle relief this season, which he made clear. Broxton earned his job in '06. Stults and Houlton were brought up out of desperation. When Tomko and Hendrickson lost their SP roles, these were richly deserved demotions. In Hendrickson's case, he's clearly more effective as a reliever. We have two seasons' worth of evidence to that effect now.

If the conventional wisdom on the Dodgers' '07 season becomes "they rushed the kids," then that's a 180 degree reversal of reality. The prospects who got to play, only got to play because it would have been embarrassing to continue sitting them given the numbers they were putting up.

560 Absolutely. But stop being so rational! Stop looking at facts! TJ Plashmers doesn't have time for that.

Was Nomar hurt when he lost 1B? He missed a couple days after Loney took over 1B permanently, but I'm pretty sure that was just to re-acclimate to the position, taking pre-game groundballs, etc. I thought he'd very clearly lost his job over his inability to hit.

What TJ Plashmers should look at is "management." Little, Colletti and McCourt. Those were the deciders, and they each made decisions that clearly hurt the team's fortunes. I don't expect anyone to be fired, much as I think Little deserves it. But I hope these alibis and mis-readings of history don't blind them to what they did wrong, so they can correct their mistakes.

I'm sorry, but Derek Lowe needs to shut his pie hole, as does every other player on the Dodgers.

It's getting ridiculous.

{Sharpens pitchfork.}

{Lights torch.}

Harrumph!

563 But... but... when are Deciders held responsible?

And veterans for that matter? Apparently not often.

558
For starters, Hamilton's real name isn't close to Lee Hamilton. I also think Hoffarth doesn't particularly care for Hamilton.

But he also used to get on Dan Patrick a lot for using a stage name. But he seems to do so less now, probably because Patrick is a friendlier interview topic.

564
And people are scared about angry Timmermann.

At least I don't even have subpoena power!

Paul G. Mahon, according to the Final Arbiter of All Human Knowledge, Wikipedia.

There is no such thing as angry Zappala. Unless you continually forget to do your chores, and then you get grounded, which means no playing outside for you!

567 Since Dan Patrick uses his first and middle names, I wouldn't equate that with a stage name.

The Zappala chore matrix must be huge. 17 rows and Lord knows how many columns.

570
My dad was rarely angry. Unless you showed up late for work for him. And he employed all of us at his store.

My grandfather was a short-tempered man and my father vowed not to be like him and he succeeded.

572
Did you ever see the movie "Yours, Mine, and, Ours."

The good professor is like Henry Fonda in that movie. There are color-coded pieces of paper to indicate the chores.

572 One whole wall of the basement. And try keeping track of who is grounded, who needs to go to bed early, who has homework left, who needs to be picked up from soccer practice, and who is trying to go through the line twice to get two scoops of ice cream instead of one.

Beware the Fish:
Marlins 3, Cubs 1 in the 2nd.

573 I try not to be angry after I noticed I was getting too angry. My kids probably think I'm a miserable failure at this. Good for your father. I remember my grandfather yelling at my grandmother in Italian, but for all I know he was telling her how much he loved her.

574 Haven't seen that one, nor its remake. I'm guessing the first one is better?

578
Neither film is great, but the first one is a little better. Then again, I haven't seen the second.

In the first film, all the kids came up "through the farm system." In the remake, many of the children are "free agents" (aka adopted).

543. I wanted to ask to the guy that posted it in this link: http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=283#s=283&f=2094&t=696814&p=24 .

But maybe it´s true: http://tommy.mlblogs.com/photos/uncategorized/c070305w034.jpg

Did you ever see the movie "Yours, Mine, and, Ours."

Nope. I did, however, see "You, Me, and Everyone We Know". Completely unrelated film, but similar title. Wasn't great.

There was also a sequel called "Theirs, Another Guy's and Someone Else's," but it didn't do as well at the box office.

There was also a sequel called "Theirs, Another Guy's and Someone Else's," but it didn't do as well at the box office.

then you get grounded, which means no playing outside for you

BTW: For whom is inside confinement more punishing: the kids or the parents?

581 Was it a lot like "You, Me, and Dupree"?

581 Wasn't great? Different strokes for different folks, I guess, because:

In my opinion, You and Me and Everyone We Know was the very best film of its year. It moved me very, very deeply.

Actually, the film was called "Me and You and Everyone We Know".

586
I liked it, but I didn't love it.

584 Definitely for the kids in our case, because being inside means you are missing out on what is going on outside with all the neighborhood kids. They would lobby the UN to have inside confinement added to the list of methods considered to be torture, but they are too politically savvy to believe the US would listen to the UN.

580 If McCourt finds the two of them in a closer clinch than this, we might be shed of this guy Kent sooner than we thought.

Perhaps Derek Lowe can arrange a discreet love nest for them. He knows where all the best ones are. Then we send in Rob McMillan with his telephoto lens...

Updating the scorecard from: https://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/710090.html

White: 175.9
DePodesta: 143
Colletti: 103.3
Creech: -5.3
Evans: -6

I think You Me Dupree and Everyone We Know would have been an awesome film. Miranda July and Owen Wilson, together at last!

Me You and Everyone Derek Lowe would have been interesting, too.

588 You share Mrs. Kavula's opinion. She endured my raves, saying, "It was okaaaay, but..."

Pauline Kael once told a story about a guy who dumped his girlfiend when she didn't have an emotional response to "McCabe and Mrs. Miller." This story went through my mind when Mrs. Kavula didn't have an emotional response to "Me and You and Everyone We Know."

Before the tought was even complete in my mind, it was clear to me that (a) Mrs. Kavula loves me a lot; (b) I love Mrs. Kavula a lot; and (c) Dumping someone because they don't like a movie -- even "McCabe" might make someone extremely strange and alone.

531 . I cannot recall a club named Frip, although Belgium does have a Brugge which would make a fantastic alias on the condition you pronounce it like a drunken Aussie.

Now the valiant English lasses proved as useless as their male counterparts I've resorted to pulling for anyone but Germany. I had you lot down as our best hope and it is always nicer hearing "knocked out be eventual champions". Oh well.

591 updated:

White: 175.9/12 players
DePodesta: `43/4 players
Colletti: 103.3/26 players
Creech:-5.3/1 player
Evans: -6/2 players

Would people here be interested in trading for D-Train? He had a down year, but is still young and should rebound. If so, What would you think is a fair trade that the Marlins would accept? (Please, no answers involving Pierre. He is our CFer for the long haul. No one is taking him off our hands.)

580 I don't know about "confidant", but it is the case that Jeff Kent has made appearances or lent support to certain charitable activities that are favorites of Jamie McCourt's, though I can't remember where I read that. Mrs. McCourt is 53 or 54, so she's likely to relate more easily to the eldest vets as compared to the kids less than half her age.

As the owner of one of America's last frost-free refrigerators, I'm in the process of defrosting it. I started around 2:20.

I have a buildup in the freezer that would make you think global warming is a myth.

I think I will be done by 3:30. I'm very good at defrosting freezers. It's the only household chore I'm good at.

592 You need a Dog Named Boo in there.

599
Lobo's greatest hit!

596 I don't see the point in trading for Willis. He might be a little above average or he might be a little below average. Toss in a small percentage that he'll be fantastic, like he was in '05, but I'm not betting on that...

...in other words, Dontrelle Willis is a 25-year-old version of Esteban Loaiza, and we already have him.

Hanley Ramirez homer makes it 4-1 Fish in the bottom of the 5th.

601
But Dontrelle Willis is left-handed.

And hits better.

And he has a ring.

And he knows where trash cans should go.

603 All true. Clean out your locker, Matt!

...I shouldn't even make jokes about that. I'm very sorry.

594. That was a joke by Bob that was carried forward. There was a never a club named Frip. It is another poster who handle is a famous soccer club.

604
It's much harder for Kemp to clean out his locker since the trash can isn't as close to it anymore.

606 Rookie mistake. Don't move the trash can; yaneverknow when you're gonna have to throw something away.

I only repeat the joke about the trash can because I still can't figure out what the LA Times story meant with that anecdote.

It was poorly written and compounded by poor editing.

5-1 Fish after a Cabrera double that was fair by about 1/16th of an inch drives in Uggla.

The saddest thing is that even if Ned bites the bullet and keeps all of the kids (unlikely given that McCourt has never shown the backbone to go against the media) it will never be like it was. The honeymoon isn't just over, but there is really bad blood and tarnished reputations. The whisper campaigns Ethier (doesn't sign autographs), Abreu (fakes injuries), Loney (complains when he is sent down), Kemp (arrogant and doesn't play the game the right way) have coalesced into the dominant storyline of an embarrassing season. It will never be as wonderfully pure and thrilling as the promise of a homegrown dynasty. Now it is some sort of compromise to like these kids, they are good, but...

Meanwhile, the real failures this season are completely let off the hook. The McCourt era is making me feel like a masochist.

As long as people are repeating stuff, does anyone have access to the program that'll figure out Juan Pierre's chances of getting to 3000 hits? Is it the Favorite Toy that does that?

...and if he does make it, will he be elected? And if he is elected, would he be the worst player in the HOF?

I find this fascinating.

601 That's a pretty harsh comparison - Willis & Loaiza. Some time after the game, Dontrelle's ears will be burning and he'll have an uncontrollable urge to cry.

612 I already made Dontrelle cry once this year.

I'm not kidding.

612 The time I made Dontrelle cry:

http://tinyurl.com/27t6d8

611
30.2% chance of reaching 3000 hits. The favorite toy projects around 2700 hits.

I used this year's numbers and didn't add in any hits Pierre will get the last four games.

http://tinyurl.com/2clxty

What's the fewest HRs hit among players with 3,000+ hits?

611- The Bill James Handbook 2007 has his projections (it was published before this year, so they're likely at least a little different, now). I don't have it (somebody here probably does), but it looks like he put Pierre's chance of getting 3000 at 29%, based on this:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/11/two_year_offer_.html

614 I thought it was because you scared him with your telescoping mechanical spider legs.

616 Looks like Nap Lajoie, with 83.

Or there's always Bob's answer; righter, quicker, funner. He's like Eric Byrnes.

619 Whoops -- I missed Eddie Collins. 47 career home runs.

Hope Solo is attractive. And I like that one of the players has tons of tattoos.

Marta has some sick moves, I really liked where she kicked the ball over the other players head and went and go it.

That is my women's soccer analysis.

Given his current pace, Pierre would have roughly 25 HRs were he to reach exactly 3,000 hits.

598 We kept an old tired Electrolux canister vacuum cleaner around for years, just to enable quick defrosting of our small back-of-the-bar refrigerator. It had a nice "reverse air flow" function which allowed lots of hot air to be blown directly on the six-inch-thick blocks of ice which accumulated in its freezer.

It is worth noting that Wade Boggs hit just 118 career home runs. 24 in '87; 11 in '94; no other season more than 8.

Boggs also had 61 triples.

He ranks 18th all time in doubles, with 578.

501 Ah, to be thrilled. That was so much easier when we were still in the race. I keep telling myself, "the youngsters, watch them.... and there's Vin, four more games this year of Vin Scully...and, more depressingly, the long off-season awaits. So enjoy it while you can."

I so, so, so hope that Juan Pierre makes 3,000 hits.

The debate over whether he's a Hall of Famer would cause many a head to explode.

Rod Carew: 92 career home runs.

Rod Carew: .393 career OBP.

I so, so, so hope that Juan Pierre makes 3,000 hits

Me too. Are there currently any 3,000 hit players not in the HOF...?

622 Hope Solo's not only cute but she should have started in goal today, too, given she'd shut out all their previous opponents but one with her in goal.

629 Rose, Biggio, Henderson, Palmeiro...

...other than them, no.

629
In addition, he will probably have somewhere between 650-750 steals...

630
Yeah, that was obvious. It is like benching Shaq for Elden Campbell, because Campbell had some success against the Spurs.

628
The flip of that question: What is the lowest OBP for a HOF hitter?

Rose, Biggio, Henderson, Palmeiro...

So, I guess Rose is the only eligible 3,000 hit guy not voted in.

Lowest career OBP among the 3000 hit club:

Ripken, .340
Yount, .342
Brock, .343

Juan Pierre is at .348 and falling.

Bill Mazeroski had a career .299 OBP.

Ned could solve all his problems by:

Signing Tori Hunter for four years at $15M per year. He has to be a better defender than Pierre with more power and about the same OBP.

Trade with Twins-
Lowe $10M in 2008
Pierre $10M per year
Ethier $400K in 2008
McDonald <$400K
for
Santana $13.25 in 2008

Lowe and Santana replace each other in the rotation in 2008. McDonald replaces them in the Twins rotation in 2009. Pierre replaces Hunter in the Twins OF. Ethier helps replace Hunters offensive production.

Santana replaces Lowe in LA rotation. Hopefully signing a long term deal with Dodgers.

Trade trade with Astros-
Kent $10M
Elbert <$400K
Stults <$400K
for
Lance Berkman $14.5M per year 2008-2010
$15M option in 20011.

Kent replaces Berkman at 1B and Elbert and Stults give the Astros some decent younger pitching. Saves Astros some $$$. Kent and Berkman's VORP are close 42 vs 40.

2008 lineup:

SS Furcal
C Martin/Loney
RF Kemp
LF Berkman
CF Hunter
1B Loney/Martin
3B LaRoche
2B Nomar
MORE POWER

Rotation:
Santana
Penny
Billingsley
Loaiza/Houlton
Wolf/Schmidt

622 Hope Solo is simply a great name.

635 - Did I miss something? Rose not in the HOF?

I'm not going to make my 3:30 pm target for defrosting my freezer. There is a troublesome section that's preventing air flow to one section.

And I seem to be getting an asthma attack too.

641 - Talk to it Bob.

600 Actually, "I'd Love You to Want Me" is a slightly bigger hit. (I was going to type "FWIW" at the end of that, but it isn't worth anything.)

641
I'm taking an aggressive approach. Steam, a spray bottle of water (best tool in the world), and withering glares.

638 - Unless the Twins get a better offer and Berkman doesn't wind up being only a first baseman...

641 I actually have a stand-alone freezer that I need to defrost. Hmmmm, I needed a fun activity this weekend and enjoying a meaningful Dodgers/Giants game fell off the list ....

It's 5-4 Fish after 6. The Cubs got three thanks to a big error by Cabrera. The Fish loaded the bases with none out, but Wood came into to get a strikeout and then got Ramirez to ground into a DP.

I think nearly all the fans at the games are rooting for the Cubs.

Pierre, CF
Young, LF
Kemp, RF
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
The Rock, 3B
Valdez, 2B
Hu, SS
Loaiza, P

636
How interesting would his HOF case be if he had the following:

3000 hits
700 steals
1500 runs scored

<.710 OPS
<.370 SLG
<.340 OBP

An anonymous source has told me that among players presently eligible for the HOF, Harold Baines has the most hits at 2866.

638 Ned could solve all his problems by: Signing Tori Hunter ...

But JP isn't Ned's problem, just ours.

Bill Mazeroski had a career .299 OBP

And a full line of .260/.299/.367, with 138 HRs and 27 SBs. EQA of .249.

Horrendous. Did he really make it in because of his WS HR?

640 Yes, you missed something. You forgot about the whole lifetime ban from MLB thing?

JUAN PIERRE
Colorado, N.L.
Florida, N.L.
Chicago, N.L.
Los Angeles, N.L.
Baltimore, A.L., 2000-2017

ONE OF THE MOST LIKEABLE AND DURABLE PLAYERS IN MAJOR LEAGUE HISTORY. RETIRED WITH OVER 3,000 HITS, 700 STOLEN BASES, AND 1,500 RUNS. LEGENDARY FOR HARD WORK, DETERMINATION, AND HOURS SPENT AT THE BALLPARK. WON WORLD SERIES WITH FLORIDA AND PART OF THE LOS ANGELES CLUB THAT WON FOUR STRAIGHT WORLD SERIES, 2008-2011.

651
I fully expect Ned to sign one of the triumverate of Hunter/Jones/Rowand, trade Ethier and another minor leaguer for a Jarrod Washburn-Type, and sign a couple of "throw them against the wall to see if they stick" middle relievers and bench guys and call it a day.

When all is said and done, I do not think Ned is not going to trade Kemp, so my take on the '08 lineup is:

SS Furcal
LF Pierre
RF Kemp
CF Hunter/Jones
2B Kent
1B Loney
C Martin
3B Nomar

652 Bob knows more than I do, but I believe that Bill Mazeroski is considered the single greatest second baseman who ever lived. I believe there is no one who was ever better at turning the double play.

Plus there was that home run.

656 That should say defensive second baseman.

648 Not a bad line-up except for Valdez, who isn't that bad, and Loiaza, who will probably blame his loss on the kids playing behind him.

If Ned were to sign a Hunter/Jones like player, I'm not convinced Pierre would necessarily move out of CF.

656
Does that mean there's HOF hope for Neifi!...?

656
Mazeroski got in because of his glove and the old Veterans Committee liked him. Under the new voting sytem, he'd never make it.

Mazeroski participated in 1706 double plays. That's 201 more than Joe Morgan had, for example.

660 No.

659
I don't see either of those guys coming to LA unless a promise of position was made. Jones, I think, wants to cement his place in the HOF over the next 5 years or so, and can not do that out of left or right. I really can see Jones coming here on a 3-year 42 million-type deal and Hunter either going to Texas or the Yankees.

Cubs have the bases loaded with two outs in the 7th against the Fish. Jones batting against Pinto and ...

Strike three.

5-4 Fish going to the bottom of the 7th.

Cubs briefly threaten in the 8th, but don't score.

5-4 Fish.

The Cubs will have 3-4-5 up in the 9th.

Time for a guessing game. Which is greater...

Juan Pierre's chances for 3000 hits or Alex Rodriguez's chances for 850 home runs?

All you people with freezers that need defrosting really need to dump them. They probably are killing your electric bill.

ooh, I was THAT close to post 666

667
Such is the life of a renter.

Reminds me of a Dido song:

But if my life is for rent and I don't learn to buy
Well I deserve nothing more than I get
Cos nothing I have is truly mine

Old Friend Cody Ross doubles home Almost Old Friend Reggie Abercrombie to make it 6-4 Fish in the 8th.

Surely your landlord will reimburse you for the cost of a new fridge and lower your rent when he/she realizes the savings on electricity Bob. Right?

667 You're right. I've been meaning to defrost it and not plug it back in.

I wonder if it's old enough to be considered "hazardous waste" in this day and age.

672
I pay the utilities.

I just heard the final ice shelf give way! I think some of those pieces are the size of Rhode Island.

658 I suspect that Kent may be resting his knee; wasn't it jammed on the ill-fated slide home Tuesday? If so, Hu and Valdez are the only healthy middle IFs, if you don't count Young as a 2B.

Marlins finish off the sweep of the Cubs 6-4.

675 They probably could beat the crap out of RI in a war.

I sense an epic post coming from Jon.

Or he's just really busy today.

I have no idea how the Marlins can possibly win any games in New York with the state their pitching is in.

Then again, the Mets pitching doesn't appear to be able to win any games.

The Phils lead 1-0 in the 1st.

Phils go single, then bunt single and error to score a run and send a runner to third, then another error brings home the second run.

Ryan Howard homer makes it 4-0 and there's no one out in the first.

Smoltz is pitching for Atlanta too.

The Phillies rely heavily on what I like to call the "far ball".

676 - if Kent counts as a second baseman, I say Young counts as well

684 Young's even worse, from what I've heard. But I guess in an emergency. So yeah, makes sense that Valdez is starting, I was just saying he can't scare the opponents all that much.

Let's say the Kemp/Kershaw for Santana rumor has legs. Ned will replace Kemp with one of those FA CFer's and move Pierre to left.

Furcal
Pierre
Loney
Kent
Rowand (or Torii or Andruw)
Martin
Nomar
Ethier

with Santana, Lowe, Penny, Billingsley and Schmidt leading the rotation.

Expensive and chockful of veterany-goodness, Ned's two great tastes that taste great together.

I wonder if Pierre is playing for consecutive games, 200 hits (10 short - unlikely), 100 runs (5 short, possible), .300 BA?

There are four games left. If Pierre gets 20 ABs in those games, he needs 11 hits to hit .300. Or 10-16.

686 Boy, is that a tough team to root for.

New non-epic post up top.

Cardinals lead the Mets 1-0. I assume that since this is the last Cardinals game that will mean anything (they finish with three in Pittsburgh) that La Russa is going to pull out all the stops. Or at least all the stops that are possible.

Kelly Stinnett is still starting.

686
That would singlehandedly give the Twins a Cleveland/Rockies group of young talent that would be a WS contender for at least 5 years (Mauer, Morneau, Liriano, Kershaw, Kemp, Nathan).

The Dodgers, meanwhile, would end up losing Penny, Furcal, Kent, Lowe, and Santana by the end of the year to FA...

Back to square 1 in 2009...with much less top end talent to replenish the club.

"Sooner came before later... and boy did he hit that thing hard."

Yes, Vinny, he certainly did.