In a bit of irony, Tony Gwynn Jr Ties game in bottom of the 9th

Somewhere, Tim Kurkjian is saying "This is why baseball is such a great game" regarding Tony Gwynn Jr. standing in the way of the Padres making the playoffs.

GTIO?

ohhh game thread is open.

how ironic tony gwynn jr putting the pads playoff celebration on hold.

Hoffman blows save. 6th of the season. Brewers winning run on 3rd

OH MAN INTERCEPTION!!!!!!1

rom ItD todays lineup:

Pierre, CF
Valdez, 2B
Kemp, RF
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
Young, LF
LaRoche, 3B
Hu, SS
Billingsley, P

________________________________

Martin batting 5th is a little surprising, I'm glad Grady is starting to like D.Young more & more.

Going to extra innings in Mil.

Wooo!

Do Cal and UCLA have the same fight song?

Vishal, GTIO = G ame T hread I s O pen

How does Hoffman remain a closer. He never throws a fastball anymore.

That was so UCLA!!!

Hearing Matt V almost cry when Gwynn Jr got the hit was priceless...Yes this whay baseball is a great game!

8 I want to know the name of the guy playing shortstop.

13 Volume, Marty. Volume.

11
They have the same melody for one of their fight songs, but different lyrics and they are played at slightly different tempos.

Oregon giving Cal one last run. Ball at the 20 with .39 to play

I think I've got it figured out...

Bob spends lots of time at the library + Bob knows everything...

Bob = Kim Peek

what a nailbiter.

20 well, bob also happened to attend both ucla and cal.

This is a wild game.

I don't know one iota about football & I'm kind of ashamed to admit that...

the Phillies are down to there final 2 outs.

Listen to Dan Fouts. That was great.

Dan Fouts is dying inside.

clearly out before the goal line

oh my god. what a relief.

Time to watch the Bruins.

Sigh.

That was a fun game to watch.

Da Bears!

No worse than #5 now.

How common is it for refs to blow a Field Goal call?

It's also fun to listen to "analyst" Eric Karros try to figure out the playoff permutations.

Wow. Bummer, Ducks.

On the other hand...Go Beavers!

34 lol, a little reverse psychology with yourself?

Did anyone else notice the irony of Tony Gwynn Jr.'s being the one to get the game tying hit?

35
He wants Dorrell fired.

UCLA is going to need a losing record for that to happen.

35 No, a little sabotage to get a coach fired. We must destroy the village in order to save it.

Lose.

what the hell is jason lane doing?

Prince Fielder hurt on head first slide into 1B by Jason Lane.

38 what would you call that... big picture fandom, i guess?

41
Hope.

Greg Brock wants to frag Dorrell.

Belly whopper by Jason Lane to no avail.

Even if Dorrell makes it through this year, he is gone for sure after next season. That team is going to be so young and he will start the mediocre veterans over the good young guys anyways.

No way we have a winning record.

Chef Emeril Lagasse" will throw out the ceremonial first pitch at Dodger Stadium before Saturday night's game against the Giants

John and friends will get to see the Grand Mashal of the Rose Parade and star of the Cooking Network in action.

41 It's not like I'm happy about it. But yeah, big picture fandom nails it.

Oh, my. 14-0 Beavers. BUMMER.

Leadoff double for Mil

C'mon Brewers.

Seems like UCLA's stranglehold on the top spot of the Pac-10 may come to an end today.

45 are you talking about dorrell or grady little?

Winning run at 3B with one out

Brewers win 4-3

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

im a big vinny rottino fan. he just sounds like a hard nosed scrapper.

Brewers win. Keep the cork in the champagine

51
I knew that was coming.

What happens if Philly and Ny win and SD lose.

If the Padres don't end up making the playoffs, can we go to Ducksnorts to give them advice about what's wrong with their team and what they need to do to improve it?

55. The only non-macho Vinny ever is our announcer.

I seem to be the only one rooting for San Diego because of their Special Assistant to the General Manager of Baseball Operations Director.

58
That depends upon what Colorado does the next two days.

Since the Padres won't be in a must win situation tomorrow and will be in at least a Monday playoff, Brett Tomko will start Game 162 for the Padres tomorrow against Jeff Suppan.

58 Eric Karros wants to know too.

If NY, PHI and SD are all tied. DO they have a div playoff and the loser than has a playoff with SD and then the playoffs start?

And the DBacks are the NL West champs and they have homefield advantage for the first two rounds.

61 Yes, you are. Not much of a reason.

65
Yes.

Not much of a reason

But it represents something much larger, at least to me.

I can't remember what I said I would do if Notre Dame beats UCLA, but now I am scared.

Forcing UCLA fans to listen to Petros Papadakis is just piling on.

Bob, do you know how is home field determined for either series?

Isn't rooting for the Padres because they have hired DePodesta somewhat similar to feeling that Colletti is more loyal to the Giants than the Dodgers.

Front office executives change jobs a lot. Managers change jobs. Players change jobs.

Their loyalty is to whomever signs their checks. Which may sound mercenary, but it certainly helps give the game a veneer of respectability.

70
Oh yeah, I said UCLA should just get rid of the football program.

73
It's less about loyalty and more about philosophy. I like the idea of San Diego's ostensible philosophy (and small payroll) making the playoffs, while Sabean/Colletti and their large payrolls don't.

I mean, shouldn't this idea make a lot of us happy (given that the Dodgers aren't going to make the playoffs)?

73 today bob is the bucket of ice water that douses everybody's convictions.

75 it's charming when it's oakland or minnesota. when it's in your own division it's just annoying.

D4P seems to be loyal to sabermatricians & not the Dodgers

75
The D-Backs have the same philosophy.

I'm about results, philosophy be damned...

A first down!

79
Then I guess I'm happy the D-Backs made the P-Offs too.

72
Your questions should be answered here:
http://tinyurl.com/ynmfw4

If you want to root for a philosophy, you might as well put on a sweater, grab your pom pons and start thinking of ways to work Aristotle, Kant, Hume, and Russell into a chant.

83. Thanks Bob.

Travis Blackley is a Sept. call up I guess cause he only has 1 previous start, anyway he only allowed 2 ER's in 5 innings in that start.

I thought that we were rooting against the Padres in order to ensure the protected 1st roud draft pick. If we lose today, do we clinch that spot?

The DBacks should open the playoffs at Chase Field on October 3. They will play either Chicago (most likely), Philadelphia, or New York (less likely).

75--Exactly.

As long as the Yankees/Red Sox play against either Padres/Dbax then the right philosophy will have won out IMO.

The Yankees deserve to win because they use their funds to bring in the very best of the best players they can get. The Red Sox got Bill James/Epstein.

Dbax/Padres have the sabermetric thing going.

As long as it isnt a Cubs/Angels World Series, October baseball should be entertaining.

The Giants/Dodgers finishing in 4th/5th place is enough of a statement to McCourt that payroll allocation needs to be better if the Dodgers are to compete in the future. That would include giving Colletti the ax.

87
The Dodgers have to finish with a worse record than the Brewers. If the two teams finish tied for 15th best record, the tiebreaker to determine who is 15 and who is 16 is 2006 record.

Just got back from my first Ducks game. What a depressing ending :(

Glavin vs. D Train tomorrow in Mets/Marlin finale. Should be interesting to see which Willis shows up.

I would find Cubs vs. Angels World Series very compelling.

The whole idea of rooting for a team because it was built the "right" way is one of the least interesting ways of choosing your favorite teams.

Just root for the team you like.

It's a sporting event. It's not some abstract intellectual exercise.

McCourt is still signing DePo's checks (half of them, anyway), isn't he? I understood the terms of his dumping to include paying off his contract, unless he found another GM job.

Id take place in an ancient far east suicide before i rooted for the padres or d backs. But I did like DePo.

91
Too bad they had to lose your first game. Did you make the trek across the Autzen footbridge over the Willamette? And is that US flag still up in the tree?

I'm really stoked about Kelly Pavlik Vs. Jermain Taylor, I'm sure Greg Brock should be pretty happy about tonights fight as well, Pavlik (from what I understand) has AWESOME power but lacks J.Taylor's overall quickness which = a great great MATCH UP for the viewers.

91 sorry, buddy. what a game, though!

90. It's not head-to-head record when applicable? That's just a kick in the shorts.

93 but i don't "like" either of those teams. in fact, if the rockies don't make the playoffs (and it doesn't look as if they will), i'd like none of the teams. though i suppose i'd want the NL west team to win it all.

I'll be in Chicago Wednesday. I wonder if the Cubs will be home then. I doubt I have enough pull with Tribune to score tickets anyway.

97 I think it's going to be an outstanding fight.

95

I liked Home Depo as well it's to bad McCourt gave him the boot prematurely. I really felt he built a pretty good team in '05 of course the injuries happened & it all went down hill after that.

99
I think the idea is that if you weren't all that good in 2006 and weren't all that good in 2007, you need help.

97 i know less about boxing than you know about football.

101
The Cubs will be on the road Wednesday.

I can't believe UCLA is this close.

If the best fighters would fight each other, boxing wouldnt be that bad. currently, its pretty bad.

And with their season on the line, the Rockies send Mark Redman to the hill. And he throws a perfect first inning.

108 I actually think we're in the best era of fighting since the early '80's, and the welterweight division and middleweight division are insanely good. The heavyweights stink, but I don't like the heavyweights anyway. Huge guys throwing 18 punches a round.

Does Cleveland meet with the philosopher warriors' approval? Also, how much money is Colletti going to throw at Joe Borowski in the off season? 43 Saves!

107
Oregon State's QB has thrown 11 interceptions on the year now.

96- yea I did...don't know about the flag. I was also there around 7:30 this morning to check out espn gameday. Autzen is a great place to watch a football game.

UH 48, Idaho 10, 7:30 left in game.

I have no logical reasons for picking my rooting interests.

I'd love Cubs-Angels. I'm sick of Boston and NYY. Phillies would be fun, since they haven't been there since 1980. Cleveland too would be fun for similar reasons. Mets, okay only if Glavine could win another WS game. D-Backs/Padres, eh.

110
I agree, though I do wish the heavyweight division had more talent.

whats up with the huskies trying to look like notre dame? purple gets no love.

I am rooting for the Indians, that is it.

I do not really hate the D-Backs, but I know I will in the future as we battle them every year.

113
Autzen is a great place to watch a football game

Mac Court is great too. Be sure to go this year before they tear it down, and build another Nike Dome.

So, where are you living? How is school?

The heavyweight division is a laughing stock. The fact that Evander Holyfield can still step inside a ring says alot about the heavyweight division, and boxing in general imho.

111 None. He already has a closer. Borowski would have no role.

120- Danys Baez smiles and waves.

When Uncle Miltie said he went to a Ducks game and found it depressing, I was wondering why he was in London.

3-0 Rockies in the first.

In a perfect world, I'd love to see a Cubbie Vs. Halos series but I wouldn't mind a Cubbie vs. BoSox series.

119 Old fighters staying in the ring too long is as old as boxing. It's always been that way. I don't see how something that has always happened makes the sport bad now.

125- I was referring to his hgh/performance enhancing drug stigma, which is hard to ignore no matter how you slice it.

124. Long as the Cubs don't win. Baseball is better when the Cubs lose.

4-0 Rockies in the 1st.

The NL playoff ship is headed for a rocky reef.

126 It's hard to ignore in every sport that has HGH/PED problems.

So, it's hard to ignore in every sport.

Pavlik can take a punch & he also has this calm cockyness about him that I find intriguing, but Jermaine Taylor brings big stage experience to the table & stealth like quickness, I really feel it's gonna be a pretty darn good fight.

in other words IMHO Pavlik needs to knock out Taylor to win the fight, no way Pavlik goes all the way, He's got GREAT power to do it too.

SC loses half their starting OL on one play. This isn't looking good.

129- That is very true. When you think about it, why wouldnt an athlete try to get an edge? Although, I kind of ( sort of ) want to believe that it doesnt help you hit a baseball, but I dont think thats the case.

I'm starting to wonder if Oregon State's quarterback might not be very good at football.

switching back to baseball (looking at Bills splits) Billingsley hasn't gone further than the 5th inning in his last 2 starts so hopefully he can end his season with a flurry. He last went to the 7th inning Sept. 2nd were he gave up 0 runs on only 4 hits. Talk about coming to his own, uh peepz.

The Rockies are doing their best to hold off the fishes.

135- He got into the sixth inning in both games of the last two games.

128 Is there even a set format for deciding the scenerio in which the Phils/Mets/Pads/Rockies all finish tied? If not, is it simply Bud Selig's decison?

Not that anyone cares but I just saw this. Whatever problem the Mets have had in the last two weeks they can't blame Shawn Green.

In the last 14 days:

BA .465
OPB . 595
OPS 1.276

I'm starting to wonder if UCLA's quarterback might not be very good at football.

139 That means he has a .681 slugging percentage by my calculations. :)

I like the lineup. I have a premonition that I won't get the game on DTV. It is not listed in the Extra Innings schedule. Inexplicably, I am at the moment getting the Fox Sports channel that will carry the D's/Giants game right now, but I think it will black-out at game time. The rules governing why I get various sports channels from all over the country at some times and not at others are incomprhensable. These are seperate from the baseball package.
But Gameday will be OK.

140
I read that pretty much no QB has been very good after going on a two year mission.

You can add Olson to the list.

140 I'm starting to wonder if USC is good at football. I'm fairly sure they'll win this game in the end but it ain't looking good so far.

142 This means there is no way to watch the game on TV in Boston? That'll affect my evening plans.

144 you spoke too soon. people seem to be dropping like flies in that game though.

144- Outside the interception, Booty looks sharp. They should open it up pretty soon here.

145 I wish I could tell you for sure. The D's are on "Prime" which has always meant they were on DTV, (I think). So I am very surprised they are not listed. Right now I am getting 653 on DTV(a west coast sport station). We may need some luck, and mine has been running about like the D's lately.

Dis-regarding what we might do tonight and tomorrow, Do you realize if we had won a lousy one extra game every two weeks, we would be the division winner right now. Actually one more win out of every 16 games we played. Naturally, there are a multitude of reasons we lost, but if we could avoid losing the games we lost from bad manager decisions, we'd be home free. Grady Little must go. Colletti too.

This is the first game that I have really watched UCLA. They are not very good. Cal and USC are going to absolutly destroy them.

148 I couldn't get the game last Saturday. In my experience when it isn't listed on Extra Innings that's a bad sign. I second your frustration with this system.
Nevertheless I am taking off the lab coat and going out to test my luck.

150 I sure hope so.

137

Sorry about that, I guess I didn't explain my self properly (what surprise) I guess I should have said he's gone INTO the 6th but not completed it? that's the best I can do bro.

As a Cal fan do i want USC to win or to lose?

154
Lose. You want to win the Pac-10.

How many teams wouldn't be in a playoff spot with 12 extra wins? Does their management need to go? How about the teams that wouldn't be helped with those wins, obviously they're even worse off.

Do I think Colletti seriously blew the roster construction this year? Yes, but firing a guy because we would be in a playoff spot with another 12 wins would but many GMs on the hot seat. Should Sheurholtz go? Jocketty? Melvin?

But I also want to gain some street cred when we potentially beat them. Hm.

Ned is about to give an interview on the pregame show.

157
You would get plenty of credit if you beat them.

Look at UCLA. Everyone thought we turned the corner.

Oopps.

50 Go Beavers!

I'm feeling your pain, Marty

watching "The Insider" an exotic dancer has some pretty racy (in drag???) pictures of Oscar De La Hoya during his time in Phillie, wow. He claims they were photoshoped.

Watching Colletti's interview on the pregame show, he does not sound like he has any thought of trading Kemp. "That's from the blog world."

158

thanks much for the heads up silverwidow.

OK, I'll be the idiot to ask. Why is the post called James Loney '84?

165 LOL Thanks.

163 Well, the LA Times does have a baseball blog..

I missed it! I only heard him say "we will stay the coarse" did he say anything else insight full?

165 166
I don't get it either.

162 i thought the consensus is that they were photoshopped.

I can't believe UCLA is going to win this game.

Talk about winning ugly.

168 - He specifically mentioned a need to improve the pitching staff. He also was very impressed with Loney's emergence.

169 he was born in '84 and this is his 84th game started, that's all i've got.

165 - Loney = fine as wine...?

After watching the whole pregame show with Kevin K. and friends and even having to watch a Barry B. tribute with sentimental music it will be difficult in about 7 minutes if the screen goes black.

165 , 166 , 169 -

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?n1=loneyja01&year=2007

He has 84 games started this year.

UCLA has scored 21 points since I walked in the door.

And I didn't walk in the door that long ago.

167. Heck, the Dodgers have a blog. He says it as though blogs have no value. But you have to wonder if he is dismissing the romur, where did Plaschke come up with it (if anywhere).

The apostrophe in '84 is a clear reference to a year, which is Loney's birth year. I think Vishal got it right in 173 .

The 84 games started I would guess is just a coincidence.

Can't believe the Beavers imploded like this.

Sheesh, UCLA blocked a punt and they weren't even trying to do that.

I liked DePodesta. I don't love him enough to follow him around his whole career though. He's working for a team I've rooted against and loathed for its entire existence. And while I don't think he deserved to be fired, I think Jon has marshaled the evidence more than once that DePo's decisions and Colletti's are actually pretty comparable. Which is not to defend Colletti, but instead to say DePodesta was an imperfect acolyte of his own stated creed.

And the D-backs are a sabermetrical team? This is the first time I'd heard that. I thought the consensus was that they were a remarkably lucky team.

Maybe I've misunderstood the meaning of sabermetrics all this time. Maybe it's just a synonym for "whatever worked, in retrospect."

Regardless of philosophy, I'll root for the Angels and Cleveland in the AL and somebody other than San Diego if they make it and somebody other than the Cubs the NL. I can root for Arizona, Colorado, New York or Philadelphia without feeling compromised.

180 - Any Oregon State loss is a Rule 1 violation waiting to happen.

163 So Plaschke comes out in the mainstream paper saying Kemp should be traded, and Colletti says it's "from the blog world"???

There seems to be a failure to properly assign blame/responsibility here.

172
Dodgers NL Rank In Runs Scored - 8th
Dodgers NL rank in runs allowed - 3rd

Yep, pitching, that's what we need.

182 Josh Byrnes has always been noted saber guy.

184 Colletti probably reads Dodger Thoughts to get all his information about the team. Maybe he thinks Bill Plaschke is a fictional character Jon made up to represent the essence of baseball stupidity, like Joe Sixpack.

Rockies up 6-1 in the 5th, in a game that is inexplicably not televised on Extra Innings.

188
The Fox channels in Arizona have to show football. The Fox channels in Colorado have to show football too.

It's not like they were expecting this game to be meaningful.

Anyone catch my letter in today's Times? I was so mad at Plaschke I wrote two.

189 They should have found a way for this game to be on Extra Innings.

They, being the dark overlords of baseball.

184 It's failure to adequately assess the world around you.

Newspaper man goes ballistic.
"Blog World" universally screams against Newspaper
GM blames trade rumors on "Blog World"

That's incompetence.

170

Judging from the "Entertainment Tonight" professional they are inconclusive, I really doubt a guy like Oscar De La Hoya would put him self in that position, I really feel there fake.

That is cold, they even let me watch the ads in between the pre-game and the game. Then Blackout at 10:02. And its not on extra innings either. Very wierd. Its hard to figure why they must black it out in New England when there is no other way to get it. I promise showing it won't keep me from catching the pre-game and then trying to hop a jet to LA. ButI guess it might keep me from subscribing to MLTV. But I won't anyway,till it gets better.

Oregon St. has a wide receiver named Catchings. Darrell Catchings. UCLA has a wide receiver named Ketchum. Gavin Ketchum.

182

Nice write up dzzrtRatt...

I'm not convinced there's such a thing as a sabermetric team. There are executives who consider themselves sabermetrically inclined, and who work in ways the saberists prefer. But baseball teams are just baseball teams. Arizona is a lucky team, but not unsabermetrical because of its luck.

193 de la Hoya has hired Sitrick, the "crisis PR" firm favored by celebrities who've done something truly inexplicable.

193 You really want to believe those are fake. I don't think so.

197 Well, that's just semantics then. For the record, I consider Boston, Oakland, Texas and Arizona sabermetrical teams with San Diego, Toronto, and Cleveland getting honorable mentions.

188 , 191 - MLB.tv rocks at moments like this.

197 I think you're right. It's a good tool for assessing and comparing players, but I don't think we'll ever see a GM go out there and say "My plan to win is to build a team that scores high on sabermetrics." Part of what makes sabermetrics sabermetrics is the idea of going into the market with better information. That advantage is disappearing as more GMs become familiar with some of the tools.

202 When there are still GMs that don't believe getting on base leads to more runs, let alone the ones that openly mock things like VORP (read: Ned), I think there can still be a clear delineation between a saber friendly team and a non stat heavy one.

174 If Jon had used bouquet instead of aroma I might have figured it out.

200
Daniels is into sabermetrics? Never heard him associated with it.

Tulo hits a grand slam. 11-1 Rocks.

194 They did get me to subscribe to MLBTV, although I've been thinking it isn't worth it for the few games not on Extra Innings which are on MLBTV. Then, as if to tell me, "See, you need this too," they pull this tonight. I don't understand it.

As far as OSU's implosion? I think it was due to my mention of them here. Sheesh.

The Arizona-Colorado game is listed as appearing on "Channel 12" on EI tomorrow. But Time-Warner only goes up to 10.

I assume ESPN is showing NL East games tomorrow.

Well, I'm surprised I'm the only one with any sentimental leftovers for Depo. I guess I feel a little guilty about being so critical of him back when I was completely ignorant of what he was doing, and I now feel like I want to make it up to him somehow.

200- That list looks good to me. And, it demonstrates that sabermetric isn't just a way of claiming credit for good teams. Not all bad teams are constructed by blithering idiots. The question will be: do all blithering idiots construct bad teams, no matter how good Logan White is at his job?

198 ,199

if there real, shame on De La Hoya for letting an exotic dancer take those pics (He must have been really plastered) in any case, who cares the dude in a millionaire, what ever...

I have sentimental feelings for DePo, but it does not transition to the Padres.

211
I am sure his wife cares.

205- He went to Cornell. Like Andy Bernard.

Mean while, Bills is going to his old wild pitching ways.

I love the way Pierre doesn't just accept that he can't throw. Every time, he positions himself well, and runs up on the ball, and does an all around great job of looking like he thinks he has a chance. I've usually stopped laughing about the whole thing by the time the ball rolls to the catcher.

From Gameday it looks like Chad is not having a good night, at least he is not in the groove yet.

I just caught up on the game after going shopping. What a horrible game so far for SC. When are they going to just leave Stephon Johnson in all the time? It's obvious he's the best running back.

I hope Bill's pitches weren't where GD showed them--obviously not for he got a K.

A few months ago I wouldn't have guessed pitching would be the D's critical need for next year.

209

I still like Depo. It seemed like he got fired for 1)bad team chemistry and 2)not spending enough on free agents.

Although Ned has not found a cure for the former problem, he has more than made up for the latter (thanks to his work with Pierre, Furcal, Schmidt, et al.).

218 I'm with you, Marty. I like Chauncey Washington, and he even had a long run, but Stafon Johnson is the class of the RBs and should get the bulk of the carries.

I'd never noticed it before, but Valdez has a funny nose. If he's willing to grow a beard, I wouldn't mind seeing him on the 25 man roster next Spring.

I'm just stunned that anybody liked Paul DePodesta so much that they would root for the Padres!

The Padres

Sheesh. He was a front office guy. So his firing may not have been the best idea, but he didn't suffer from some horrible miscarriage of justice. He got his contract paid to him. He's found employment.

Then again in 75 , there is a descriptions of team's that have "proper" philosophies, which pretty much boil down to "win a lot of games."

Although, the Angels are considered to be unworthy of respect. Because they don't win the way some people think they should.

223- Just a couple more days till I join SABR, and acquire all the attendant moral and intellectual superiority you so jealously guard. The day of reckoning is nigh, Bob. Nigh!

Bills is being outdueled (and so far outhit) by Travis Blackley. C'mon, Chad, I know this game is basically meaningless, but snap out of it! He's totally up with everything.

Just to be clear, my dislike of the Angels is based entirely on petty jealousy.

And Li'l Davy Eckstein.

Jon will be thrilled, I'm sure, to be there in person if Hendrickson has to replace Billingsley early.

Randy Winn hits like a highly priced hitter against us.

I read a column--forgot where--listing all of the Phillies GM screwups. Much worse than Ned. He is not getting fired.

223 - Although, the Angels are considered to be unworthy of respect. Because they don't win postseason games anymore the way some people think they should.

Fixed. Seriously, Bill Stoneman has kept draining the club of power. They've gone about as far as they can with this first-to-third stuff, but they're a dead duck in the first round.

Let's check in on the SC game. . .

A source close to the Dodgers' front office informs me that Bob Timmermann is extremely frustrated with the situation at the Dodger Thoughts comments section and may not be back next year.

227

I say bring in Meloan...

I'm afraid maybe Bills is deeper in a season than he's been before, and is reverting a bit. He should be good next year, but I think we may need a new starter or two.

if two teams have the same record, does the previous years record decide their draft slot?

234 I think we may need a new starter or two anyway.

The Bison GUNS him at the plate.

Woah, I bet Jon loved that throw from Kemp, he's watching it live!

232 Someone moved Bob's kitchen trashcan?

Yeah Kemp! Nice throw.

235 Yep. See Bob's 90

A bison just hunted down a human....revenge!

237 part II

At the stadium...

So we need to lose out an the brewers need to win tomorrow.

eh.

Stupid Feliz just robbed Delwyn.

Welp, in a few minutes we're gonna watch the last two episodes of Rome. Which will probably end even more disturbingly than the Dodgers' season.

I don't claim to have moral superiority. That exists in 75 .

I just like the guys who have the coolest uniforms.

Well, if the Trojans manage to actually win this game, they can't complain if they get dropped out of number 1. What a horrible performance.

234 Billingsley only threw 147 IP this season. He threw 161 in 2006 (combined majors and minors), and 146 in 2005.

With Kuo, Holton and Stults out of options and assuming Ned drops the following from the current 40 man roster:

David Wells non-tender
Rudy Seanez non-tender
Roberto Hernandez non-tender
Mark Hendrickson non-tender
Chad Moeller non-tender
Shea Hillenbrand non-tender
Olmedo Seanz non-tender
Luis Gonzalez non-tender
Jason Repko DFA
Tim Hamulck DFA
Mike Megrew DFA
Zach Hammes DFA
Wilson Valdez DFA

while keeping the following on the 40 man:

Eric Hull
Jon Meloan
Greg Miller
Andy LaRoche
Chin-Lung Hu

Which of the following minor leaguers newly eligible for the rule 5 draft will he protect?

Westley Wright
James McDonald
Justin Orendorf
Ramon Troncoso
Corey Wade
Xavier Paul
Jamie Hoffman

?????????

I'm sure no one cares, but I'm curious about what everyone else plans. Of the NL teams that still have a chance, I will root in this order: Rockies, Phillies, Diamondbacks, Padres, Cubs, Mets. But I really wouldn't root for the Padres, Cubs, or Mets.

In the AL I'm rooting for Cleveland, but I'll root for whoever comes out of the NL in the WS.

246
LSU's win wasn't overly impressive. #3 Oklahoma lost as did #7 Texas.
#4 Florida is tied in the fourth.

Topps is missing a good bet: Throw in some pictures of General Managers and other front office personnel with the bubblegum packs.

I'm not 100% sure Repko will be DFA'd but maybe... and of the others on your last list, I'd say McDonald for sure, and Orenduff. Not sure about the others.

249 Cubs and Indians. No Yankees. No Phillies. That's the overall rooting.

watching Pavlik on the pre-fight interview he seems pretty calm & collective.

245- SABR membership doesn't come with Prius/Mac ownership levels of moral authority? This is very disappointing. Is there a $40 dollar entry into that realm?

i really want florida to lose.

253 i'd be happy with that.

Washington's throwback uniforms, reminds me of ND.

255
I'll show you the high moral ground!

I'll show you the life of the mind!

248

R. Hernandez should have never been a Dodger, he should have gracefully boud out.

washington is just frittering away these opportunities.

No Angels. No Yankees. No Padres, That's pretty much the order.

253 You left out a certain team that happens to be coached by a certain former catcher for a world championship team in the final years of the Reagan Administration. I think there's a significant percentage of regular readers of this site who will root for a certain home team that shares part of its name with the team that is the focal point of this site and at one time shared its baseball stadium as well, although referring to it by a different name during that period. A team noted for having one of the early letters in the alphabet embossed on its cap and other merchandise.

Vin talks too much and gets on my nerves, but any announcer who can still relate first-hand stories about Tommy Dorsey is a certifiable treasure.

I'm just stunned that anybody liked Paul DePodesta so much that they would root for the Padres!

I've never hated the Padres. I feel like that gives them too much credit. I grew up hating the Giants, Yankees, and Braves. The Padres were "meh".

264 Vin talks too much and gets on my nerves

Not this again.

265. You obviously have never lived in San Diego.

oh washington. it's already at mid-field. FAIR CATCH IT.

263 I'm ambivalent about the Angels. Don't really like 'em, but don't really root against them. Win, don't win. Meh.

264 Over here, someone's rooting for the Padres. Over there someone says Vin Scully "talks too much" and "gets on my nerves."

When did I fall into Bizarro Dodger Thoughts?

Jon, come back!

259- Will there be a button, or a badge of some sort, so that ordinary people know that I'm above them, without my having to tell them?

By the way, you keep linking 75, but is that the one you mean? Any philosophy that's elastic enough to include both the Yankees and the D'backs, but doesn't have room for the Cubs wouldn't seem to be coherent. Unless there's some element I can't see that ties them together.

Woo!

264 265
May both of you be forced to watch or listen to baseball games with no other options than Matt Vasgersian and Ted Leitner.

Again, you will see the life of the mind.

263 i for one would hate that. i know i'm not the only one here who prefers the other team with an early letter of the alphabet (albeit with an apostrophe-s) embossed on their caps.

271
Sorry I meant 89 .

I will sell you a "High Moral Ground" wrist bracelet.

271- I meant Angels, not Cubs. Though I don't understand the grounds for slighting either.

The name Matt Vasegersian makes me think he is an ObGyn

This place needs to seriously re-evaluate itself if it can't handle any comments about Vin that aren't 100% positive.

Vin's going to die soon.

277 On 2nd thought Vasgersian, sounds more like something an ObGyn would prescribe...

278- Define handle? This isn't the first time you've mentioned that you think he talks too much--DT hasn't imploded in on itself over it yet. Maybe if you branch out and insult his hair color, or neckties. I love the man like a million grandfathers, but he's got some thirty year-old ties that make me wince.

279 Oh my God, you MUST be kidding. I haven't seen anything that dramatic since Dark Shaddows.

I think USC is trying everything possible to lose this game.

Youngstown, Ohio is at there feet as Pavlik makes his way into the ring.

I am a moral relativist. I will laugh at things that make most people sick. I have to pretend to care about certain things, lest I be pelted with stones. But there is one thing that I can't stand for, one thing on this earth that really bothers me. That is insults against Vin Scully. I am going to stew over this, and I'm going to enjoy it.

We can handle people not liking Vin Scully. Most people disagree.

It's not like you called him a Nazi.

YAY, ONE MORE HR!!!

278 If you want to criticize Vin for obsessing over children in the stands, fine.

If you don't like Vin ever really criticizing anyone, OK.

If you want to call Vin out for getting names wrong on a more frequent basis, no problemo.

But to say Vin talks too much is ludicrous. It's asinine. Vin is known for shutting up and letting the play on the field tell the story. I honestly think you either don't watch enough of other announcers or don't appreciate that Vin is the only announcer that calls a game by himself.

His words per minute (or however you want to describe it) have got to be among the lowest, if not the lowest, of all announcers, but simply because he's the only one in the booth there is more time for him to talk.

I call Vin a treasure, and you people have meltdown. You're all sick! Goodnight!

279 okay, that was totally unnecessary.

Shimmin nailed it. It's the ties.

I would say that Vin didn't say anything for a period of about 12 seconds in between the last two pitches.

That's a fair amount of dead air for someone working alone.

289
Good night!

Either LaRoche or Hu needs to get on base. Or both. Whatever it takes to get Hendrickson out of the game. It's close enough now that I want to watch, but I'm not going to give up a perfectly good grudge.

There we go, just have to stay out of the double play. . .

Meltdown means different things to different people.

I dunno, Hendrickson has shown signs he can be very good for a while. (April 2007)

There is an eerie relaxing feeling watching Dodger games that don't count for anything. There's a pleasantness to it that I didn't feel in '05.

You've got to be kidding me.

Fire Grady Little!

lawl, letting Hendy bat?

Speaking of melting, I'm happy for Modern English that they were able to cash in for the new Taco Bell commercial, but every time I see that commercial, all the cheese coming out of everyone's mouth looks ridiculous.

I know, looking for believability in a commercial is a fruitless effort, but that commercial really chaps my hide for some reason.

299 That proves it. Grady Little reads the blogs. And he hates Andrew Shimmin.

and i thought nomo was the worst bunter we ever had

well, he got it down.

Pierre's due for a HR...

It seems a little dumb that JP's AB music has Jay Z mentioning his name, but I suppose if I had a recorded song that mentioned my name I would play it a lot too.

Unless I was "you" in Positively 4th Street.

301
I hate that commercial too.

Mmmm. I love eating snot.

302- He's envious that I'm going to join SABR in a couple of days, at a discounted subscription rate. He wishes that he were under thirty.

way to go Pierre.

If Jp keeps up this clutch hitting, Grady will have him batting 3rd tomorrow.

302 & 307 For the record, I hate Andrew Shimmin, too, and his SABR membership-to-be.

You know, if you divide JP's RBI by his HRs, you'll see that he is far the most valuable player in baseball.

USC won but may drop in the rankings..

310. RBI per HR? What kind of stat is that?

307
See you in Cleveland, Shimmin.

311 I don't think there should be polls until mid October anyway, but I have no problem with LSU being voted #1 now. And I'm a USC fan.

I finally found out what would happen if the Mets, Phillies, Padres, and Rockies all finish with the same record tomorrow.

It's not pretty. I posted it on the Griddle. The NLCS wouldn't start until Thursday.

313

I wonder if Bob has a map of the world with colored needles to each place he's been in.

314 I was wondering what was wrong the first time I met you. Now it all fits into place.

There was a missing spot where your soul should have been.

USC won but SHOULD drop in the ratings.

Right now I want Vin Scully to quarterback the Trojans.

313- Probably not. I'm not big on going places, or doing things. I do like to know that, if I wanted to go places or do things, I'd be allowed to.

314. I'm in concurrence, this might be a wake up call for USC, hopefully we get to play LSU in January to decide it all. Which is the only thing that matters.

ESPN will likely name Auburn #1 because by winning an SEC game on the road, they are automatically the best team in the country.

That's what Mike Patrick and Ron Frankin have taught me after all these years.

317
I have no soul either:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1264/1255405091_637985b52c.jpg

312 http://tinyurl.com/2aqllh

After looking over the potential free agent class, I don't really see anyone that is appealing or even that many type A free agents.

I think we will be safe at slot 16.

Ortmeier bomb!

until next year, lurch.

UCLA could move into the rankings now, which would be hilarious.

301 on of my favorite bands from the 90s, hum, is in the new cadillac commercial.

322 But I already knew that.

And that picture makes me a very sad panda. VERY sad. But those hardwood floors are legit.

319- I'm really excited about the SABR listserv. I haven't subscribed to a listserv in probably eight years. I can't decide which email address I should use for it.

325
I knew it, Bob does love San Francisco.

Are we going to get a pick if we offer Gonzalez arb?

you guys who are talking about usc falling out of #1... did you guys watch the LSU game any? they were lousy for like 3 quarters.

328

I know exactly which one your talking about, I dig it as well.

331 just their baseball team.

322
That is more embarrassing than the Oscar De La Hoya pictures.

330
The listserv will introduce you to people who are like me. Except more so.

And some aren't as socialized as well. You will learn a lot about baseball games that last longer than five hours.

Trust me on that.

But you might from time to time see a message from Bill James or Buzzie Bavasi.

332

He'll probably be a type B free agent. So yea, we would get a 1st round comp pick.

322 geez, bob, did you lose a bet or something?

333
But they were facing Bob Toledo.

You can only hope to survive a matchup with Bob Toledo.

I'm pretty much getting my Dodger updates from the comments, I'm intrigued by the fight, very much.

OH MY GOD!!! Pavlik won!!!!

339
I forgot to bring a sweater driving up to the Timberline Lodge at Mt. Hood. My girlfriend brought two and the USC sweatshirt was the only one suitable for a man to wear.

However, it wasn't as warm as the sweater she was stuck with.

So I did lose a bet.

But I was warm.

BlueBleeder, if you're out there:

OH. MY. GOD.

Well we all knew it was only a matter of time for Taylor.

333 I didn't see the LSU game. I only assumed, like any good paranoid Trojan fan, that LSU dominated.

343 i would have remained cold and relied on my pride to keep me warm. :P

(and my girlfriend)

347 348 Awesome.

I don't know what hell is like, but I'm pretty sure I'm going there, and I'm pretty sure I'll have to wear a Southern Cal sweater.

But again, those hardwood floors! Fabulous!

349
I am pretty sure you will be wearing a Karl Dorrell jersey and have a sheet of plays stuck in your pants.

LaRoche would be great to have at a kids' birthday party.

350
And then Greg Brock will be tormented by a tall left-handed, red-haired devil who will be indecisive about how to torment him and Brock will get away.

352
Are you saying the Mormons are wrong?

342 I knew I shouldn't have been in here, just in case somebody talked about the Taylor/Pavlik fight. I will now watch it on tape delay with the same interest as that of a fight on ESPN Classic.

Oh for pity's sake. Hendrickson is still pitching?

Just back from a night out, after watching the Oregon-Cal game. The Ducks gave that game away, too bad. Just a really hard way to lose that game.

Upside: early snow in the mountains. 38 degrees today. Can't wait for the ski season to begin.

353
No, it's just that Satan can take on many forms.

Last night, I saw him at Trader Vic's having a pina colada. His hair was perfect.

354

You won't be disappointed Eric, great fight, believe me. Mean while if anything at least the Dodgers tide it up.

The Ducks gave that game away, too bad

when did they really have control of the game? they were up by a touchdown a couple times, but that's not giving the game away.

354 No, dude, it was awesome. Taylor crushed Pavlik in the first round, knocked him on queer street, and sent him to the canvas. Pavlick recovered, won almost every round, and knocked Taylor into the stone age.

There, now you really don't have to watch the fight. But you should.

ahh-ooo!

359 your continual use of homophones reminds me of something... but i can't come up with the proper analogy.

361 That's all I ever ask of a fight. Non-stop, relentless action! Perhaps my standards are too high.

My interest in the fight is now back. Thanks for the description.

It was a very good fight. I expected Pavlik to win.

And I have never heard of queer street before.

363 It's Joycean. Finnegans Wake. Dreaming while awake.

Brock comes up with great terms. The other night he used "pull wool". It was awesome.

360
Poking around the internet about missed field goals, I discovered that Virginia coach Al Groh successfully challenged a missed field goal call this year. However, such calls are not listed among calls that can be reviewed.

Which is pretty silly since it's usually an obvious call. I wish ABC had had a better angle of the "missed" field goal.

367 Imagine if there was no Rule 1. This is the tip of the phrase iceberg.

This article about the errant field goal call in the ACC game also explains what the officials are supposed to do:
http://tinyurl.com/2jb9ny

On field goals, the back judge is always under the crossbar on the side opposite the press box and the field judge is under the cross bar on the side near the press box.

Replays showed the ball barely cleared the bottom left corner just above Valdez; Valdez seemed to jerk away as if to avoid being hit.

"The proper mechanic is each official has the upright he is standing under. The ball has to entirely pass inside the imaginary line of the pipe. If any part of the ball is over the pipe, it's no good," Rhoads said.

"Now, as the ball is coming down, they have the crossbar to contend with. It's the back judge's responsibility for any play that hits the crossbar."

THis time, Rhoads said, "It looks like it's almost going to strike him. He moves to avoid being hit, and when he does, he loses his concentration."

What should happen is the back judge and field judge look at each other, verbally assess whether the field goal was good or not, and make the call together, he said.

368
They actually brought that up during the game.

The real bright note in this game is the fact that Hendrickson has clinched the 5th starter spot for next year. Glad we have that straightened out and we don't have to worry about gambling with a 3rd year player starting the year in the rotation.

368- Would the replay booth have had any different angles? I can't imagine overturning the ruling (no matter which way it had gone) based on the replays ABC had.

360 Giving the game away is perhaps too strong. I felt they could easily have won the game without the late turnovers.

369

Yep. If there was no Rule 1, I'd feel like A-Rod being given an aluminum bat.

370 well, i guess i'll have to take the official's opinion for it. it still looked like it was inside the left upright as it passed. it was spinning... anyway, at least it didn't impact the outcome.

Andre Berto had another exciting fight on the undercard tonight.

He is a fun fighter to watch.

369 This place is an oasis of interesting language due to Jon's profanity ban.

Other sites I visit, the commenters all eventually resort to all the permutations of f and s. It makes even the most erudite discussions of public policy sound like a 1:45 a.m. at a greasy pub. I can't believe how many people still think it's funny and original to put the suffix (?) "-tard" after the f word.

Greg Brock, I have faith you would use your privileges in a creative way. But then a linguistic Gresham's law would take over and your innovations would be driven out.

Not too shabby there, Mr. LaRoche.

Bringing all of this together, I will accept anyone criticizing Vin's use of the nickname "Sugar Ray" for Ray Durham.

That nickname is reserved for two people. I knew only Leonard growing up, but of course later learned of Robinson. I look at this as kind of an exception like the Yankees having two retired #8s.

Even though I really liked Sugar Ray Leonard, I still think Hagler won their 1987 fight.

I think the reports that said Andy LaRoche struggled defensively at third were just plain wrong.

375 That's why I want a "No Rule 1" day. 364 of goodness, 1 day of badness.

380
Hell yeah!!!

Marvelous was robbed.

382

It could be called Blue Monday, and happen on a Monday.

BYU wins, 31-24. New Mexico looks like Washington State.

And we all have to drink Blue Moon beer.

380 So does Hagler.

That fight is the last one I really enjoyed with a crowd of people. At the time we all thought Leonard won, but when you view it again it seems Hagler had the advantage.

Go's to show how a sentimental favorite can change perception.

From latimes.com
Bill Shaikin says next season starts today - if McCourt says so.
http://tinyurl.com/35vmjh

380 Hagler won that fight. Everybody knows it. Ray Leonard knows it. You know it. I know it.

Running around and flailing jabs doesn't win a fight. One of the happiest days of my boxing fan life was when Terry Norris destroyed Ray Leonard. You're not Sugar. You're not Ray Robinson. And you got destroyed. Loved it.

382- If Jon caved in to foul-mouth day, where would it end? How could he say no to the next identity group that came down the pike, demanding a day of it's own, like the Korean American community, or neo-Nazis. Where does it end?!

380
I added the other permutation for you, Eric.

So how many points is USC going to beat Stanford by next week?

I don't sense a good outcome in the offing for the Cardinal.

Hagler, Hearns, Leonard, Arguello, Pryor, Duran.

What an amazing era. I wish I could have not been five years old during that era. I can't see any way that ever gets topped.

Is anybody else listening to the game on Gameday Audio? Because I'm hearing some weirdo yelling just audibly enough to make the whole thing annoying, like they've mixing another feed.

391 Thanks, Bob. All I want is more days of baseball!

Yeah, I have had to watch tapes of all those fights or on ESPN Classic.

393 Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton

392 46.

398
And yet Stanford is the last team to beat USC at the Coliseum.

389 I was 11 for the Hagler/Leonard fight, and I don't remember if it was mentioned during the broadcast (normally I remember everything Barry Tompkins says -- "they better stop this fight before somebody gets killed!"), but it was an effective strategy for Leonard to steal rounds by having a corner guy yell when 30 seconds were left in the round. Leonard would then finish with a flurry that was at least superficially impressive, and it probably got him the points he needed to win.

399 Led by Ty Willingham!

Willingham was 4-3 against USC, while at Stanford.

I really miss the Trojans not being dominant.

397 Patterson was a heck of a fighter too.

Final note on field goals that were or weren't.

On December 26, 1965 (I was 16 days old and I celebrated the day by crying and soiling myself), the Green Bay Packers beat the Baltimore Colts in a playoff game in overtime, 13-10 on a 22-yard field goal by Don Chandler.

The Colts insist that the kick was wide, but Chandler kicked the ball over the top of the uprights which were much shorter in those days.

The controversy inspires the NFL to force all teams to put in taller goalposts like they have today.

A little late-season, nothing-to-play-for boneheadedness by Martin.

404 Wow, shanking a 22-yard FG? That doesn't happen too often. It's essentially an extra point, which is what, 95% accurate?

400 Ray Leonard was the flamboyant Negro that people wanted to like. It was like a smaller, less talented Ali, and everybody loved him. But Hagler beat him, he ran and chased easy rounds by throwing weak punches with ten seconds left in the round, and everybody ate it up.

I despise Ray Leonard.

393 That was when I was paying attention to boxing. There was a local legend called Randy Shields who was quite the fighter in the welterweight division then. He had a great fight against Pipino Cuevas who was considered a monster at the time.

Leonard was the real deal. He destroyed Hearns and deserves all the accolades he's gotten.

404
Did not stop Janikowski from hitting the top of one from 52 yards away.

Of course, he missed it as he tends to do.

407
At least he will never be the successful Italian movie star that Marvin Hagler is.

The latest "Zero > One" post on FJM is hilarious. Short and sweet.

So it seems like Shaikin mentioms every plausible scenario except trading pierre....

408 Speaking of Hearns, my first thought from the description here of tonight's Taylor/Pavlik fight was of Hagler v. Hearns. Just unyielding action.

412

He keeps wanting to put Pierre in left. Why not first base?

Greatest fight I ever saw was Ali vs Frazier in 1971. I was an usher for Pacific Theaters (the Paradise in Westchester) back then working my way through college. There was no cable pay per view back so big fights were shown at movie theaters as a closed-circuit telecast. I got sent to the Pacific Theater in Hollywood that night. Worked the concession counter before the fight and sold popcorn to Paul Newman, Telly Savalas, Ed McMahon, Buddy Hackett, and other stars of the era. When the fight started I got sent to one of the side aisles to keep an eye on the crowd. Everyone stood through the entire fight. It was the most amazing sports crowd I have ever been a part of. I believe Frazier was 27 years old and Ali was 29.

415 Mike, you may have sold popcorn to my father.

Corrales vs Castillo was the greatest fight I have ever seen.

The fight was action packed and the ending just made it special.

406
Kickers weren't all that good in 1965. Nearly all of them toe-kicked the ball, which is a really dumb way of kicking a football. The has marks were farther apart back then too, so the angles were tougher.

In 1965, I think only the Gogolak brothers, Jan Stenerud, and Garo Yepremian kicked like an athlete who plays a sport where kicking is important would do it.

Fred Cox led the NFL with 23 field goals that year. He missed 12. Pete Gogolak led the AFL with 28 and missed 18.

I don't know if an NFL kicker would keep his job if he missed 18 field goals in a season. Or even stay around long enough to miss 18 field goals.

He destroyed Hearns

On what planet? Hearns crushed Leonard until they beat the heck out of each other, and Leonard pulled out the TKO when Hearns detached his retina.

Hearns put Leonard on the canvas twice in the second fight, and it was a draw because America loves Ray Leonard. Hearns kicked his tail from here to Katmandu.

414

Then the Dodgers could move Juan Pierre to left and trade Andy LaRoche and either Kemp or Ethier for a strong young arm or two. Jeff Kent would remain at second base, no longer the only power threat in the batting order.

hmmm, what strong, young arms are available?

I can only think of Ian Snell and Scott Olson due to their activities from this year.

Hearns detached his own retina?

Marty - at the fight? or at the Paradise in Westchester?

420- Dontrelle Willis. Ethier and LaRoche should get that done.

Delmon Young of Tampa Bay has played in 161 games this season and then got yanked by Joe Maddon in the sixth because he felt he wasn't hustling on a ground ball.

Young yelled at him and might be benched for game 162.

I had no idea that Walker was back on the Giants.

425

There was a disturbance in The Force. You must've missed it.

423 - Jim Baker of BP was advocating in a chat session the Dodgers go get Santana - he likens it to a fan seeing Koufax on the mound in 63 & 64. Implied Dodger Stadium would make Santana the dominant pitcher in the NL.

421 You know, I gave you the Pat Haden Clause. I said how much I liked you, despite your Southern Cal shenanigans. Now you say Leonard was better than Hearns. Fine.

Marty is no longer covered by the Pat Haden Clause. He's just another Southern Cal fan. Eric Stephen gets the Pat Haden Clause.

Marty and his palacial Pasadena estate are dead to me.

427- I expect Santana would cost much more than Ethier and LaRoche.

Anyway, I can't stand by any theory that says the Dodgers should discard two guys who'd be passable LFers in order to let Juan Pierre play. Finding new ways of making the Pierre contract dumb is not a game I'd like to see Colletti play.

428
Marty lives in Altadena, not Pasadena.

There's a difference. For starters, if he needs an ambulance, he gets to wait about half an hour for the County to show up.

429 - Agreed. The price for Santana would be very steep.
Is Coletti smart enough and bold enough to admit a mistake, and pawn off Pierre for an arm in the BP, or a backup catcher who can hit a little and is under the age of 30?

Sorry Greg. We just differ.
I think Leonard was a lot better than Hearns. Because he won. Hearns never won a really big fight. Just lead-ins to big fights. He was a great fighter, but doomed to be in the same era with better ones.

431- He doesn't see Pierre as a mistake. Colletti is a certified Pierre-lover. Colletti gets thrown out of McCourt's office at least once a week for pitching a gate promotion give away of Pierre related memorabilia, including such items as Eau de Pierre perfume, Juan Pierre stationary, Juan Pierre beany-babies, Miniature Juan Pierre batting helmets (they're the size of a thimble; get it?), etc.

He loves Juan Pierre. Not that there's anything wrong with it.

Bill Plaschke's column would be much more enjoyable if I were his insider source.

Alright Russ. Time to turn 20.

Walker's sweating like David Wells.

Russell is not going to be very pretty by the time his career ends.

Is that the first bat broken over a Dodger's knee since Milton Bradley left town?

We can't have players who come up short in clutch situations of a meaningless game.

Martin needs to go.

Wait a minute, Brock. I thought I had the Pat Haden Clause. Or was that some other Clause or Exception? I forget.

Ned Colletti is to Juan Pierre as Robert Downey Jr. was to cocaine. It'll take him down until he finally realizes he can quit.

438 Obviously Martin was angry and disappointed and perplexed . . . bitter . . .

I saw Foreman defeat Joe Roman live in Tokyo in 1973, or at least I think I did. I was up in the nosebleed seats, but that was the event I paid for.

440 You, LAT, and Marty have the Haden Clause. Marty just lost the Haden Clause. Marty is now just another Southern Cal fan.

You're still in the clear, Professor.

Looking it up, I also saw via closed circuit the Leonard-Duran "no mas" fight in November 1980.

Luis Gonzalez is still with the Dodgers? I thought he quit a couple days ago and was working at a Starbucks.

One last at-bat for Gonzalez. Will it be memorable?

444 Oh, whew. Because I liked Sugar Ray Leonard, but looking back now it was only because I was young, impressionable, and misled by the media machine. I'm perfectly willing to forget all about it if you are, especially since I could care less about boxing. Unless it's Boxing Day, which is a cool holiday and also my son's birthday.

Doesn't that beat all?

Team Unity!!!

"How about that?"

Aw...now that's just cute.

My sister spent a year studying in England, and now keeps trying to make our family celebrate Boxing Day. No dice.

Hooray! He's a hero. In a meaningless game. But we'll take the win.

Nice to see Hu and LaRoche contributing well tonight.

Was that Matt Kemp group-hugging Gonzo? Pretty funny.

"We've got some great young kids here. We just wish there'd been a different game plan from the start." LuGo, 9/29

Team Unity, indeed. Just a few weeks late. Winning does bring more unity, of course.

Above .500, baby! w00t!

D4P is very happy, yes? But will he be rooting for the Dodgers to lose tomorrow?

Well, at least that confirmed a winning season.

Trying to look for silver linings after a couple of weeks of staring at clouds ...

456 - Weaver's 2nd Law of Managing
If you don't make promises to your players, you won't have to break them.

A day off work to watch sports on the telly and gorge on pork pies. What's not to love about boxing day?

453 Canadians typically commemorate Boxing Day by going shopping. It's not a very complicated holiday to celebrate up there.

Yay, win!

Even Kevin Kennedy is dissing Plaschke, lol.

456 I think he means two different "we's" in that quote.

First use: "We" the Dodgers.

Second use: "We" the proven veteran leaders.

I have no idea what Gonzo means by that - a different game plan, meaning benching his butt and the other veterans from the start? He'd approve of that? Or playing nonstop veterans, no kids from beginning to end? That clearly wasn't going anywhere. Ah well. He gave us some good at bats this year. And I won't miss him all that much.

I'm paraphrasing, but this made me lol. Kid is learning.

Soto: "These past few weeks... lot of drama. What's it been like?"

Kemp: "No comment!"

466 - I believe he meant that management made a mess of the roster, and the day to day lineups, and the players never really understood their roles on the club.

So after this season the Dodgers free agents will be Gonzo, Roberto Hernandez, Shea Hillenbrand, Olmedo Saenz, Mark Sweeney, Rudy Saenez and David Wells.

Of those, I predict none will be resigned except possibly Sweeney. And that's fine by me.

They hold 2008 options on Lieberthal, Martinez and Wolf.

That lot's harder to predict. I think they may resign Lieberthal if he's cheap enough, though maybe they'll go with the even cheaper Chad Moeller. Wolf, again if he agrees to a cheap deal, I could see them bringing back. I'm assuming Lucille II is gone since they have cheaper in-house options like Valdez, Abreu and Hu, but who knows how deep Ned's love for him goes. But if predicting, I'd say Wolf and Lieberthal come back and Lucille is gone.

468 Well if that's what he meant, there's some truth to it. I just don't buy that he'd prefer the option of the game plan being the young players from the beginning.

469 Not going out on a limb with my FA predictions there above, of course.

469 - How much would Moeller cost?

Grady could be a spokesman for skincare products (How unnerving).

470 - Gonzo never would have signed with the Dodgers if he had known he would not be the everyday LF. Promises must have been made, and were then broken.

Where does LuGo end up next year? Chicago (south side), Cleveland, Kansas City (or can Butler handle LF?)? Baltimore would be perfect, if they could get rid of Payton.

471 Or maybe he's saying he thinks Colletti lied to him and others of his generation. Kent, who's a little nutty, took it out on the young players themselves, but I think Gonzalez expected his veteran-ness and bubblegum card numbers to be respected by management; and that management was going to do its job and explain to the kids that if they were going to be on the big club, they were going to spend most of their time watching and learning from their forefathers unless someone needed a rest.

Gonzalez might have a case here. Colletti might've misled him as to how the season would unfold. Gonzalez might've been given some kind of vague assurances that the Dodgers would do what it takes to win in 2007.

Maybe the second-half letdown was the response when the PVLs realized Colletti wasn't going to follow through by trading youth for the missing pieces that would've put the Dodgers over the top. They had a giant mood swing.

474 - San Francisco. They need an LF. They like veterans. Gonzo signed with the Dodgers and took less money to stay closer to his family in Arizona. He's the father of triplets.

Oops I was actually responding to 470 .

Gonzo signs deal with Dodgers: Source says ex-D-Backs star lands $7 mil deal
Joseph A. Reaves, The Arizona Republic, Dec. 6, 2006

"Gonzalez, 39, turned down a more lucrative offer from the Baltimore Orioles to stay close to home - in part to continue his tradition of community service in the Valley and in part for the prospect of taunting the team that told him he was too old to play anymore."

I must say, one of my favorite parts of 2007 is how the Dodgers, and their fans, have completely ignored the fact that Luis Gonzalez is one of the most blatant steroids users of the decade.

57 home runs. Really. Totally natural.

478- Could be. The way Sabean shipped out Morris, I guess it would surprise me if he went back to tossing money at old guys, again, three months later. But it's Sabean, so who knows.

Greg, I'm honored to receive the Pat Haden treatment. Ironically, I also use the Pat Haden treatment to absolve someone connected with Notre Dame if they are generally decent and/or have ties to USC.

I'm watching the fight right now, and Pavlik just got put on "queer street" in Round 2. If Lennox Lewis was the referee, the fight would have been over right then and there. He said "that's it!" when Pavlik went down.

Listening to Larry Merchant is a thoroughly enjoyable experience.

My cable system indicates that the Washington-Philadelphia game will be Extra Innings "Game 11".

However, my system has just 10 slots for Extra Innings.

Colorado-Arizona is "Game 12".

But I will get to see Tampa Bay-Toronto and St. Louis-Pittsburgh!

483 Always seeing the bright side, Bob.

484
I can't even figure out why they used 11 for the Washington-Philadelphia game except that it starts at an odd time, 10:35.

I can watch the Mets-Marlins game and that will have the Florida feed. If I could watch the Nats-Phils game, it would be the Nats feed. The Brewers-Padres game will be the Brewers feed and the Rockies-DBacks feed will be from Colorado.

485 At least you will be spared George Frazier!

I just finished the Pavlik/Taylor fight. It was a great fight, despite knowing the outcome.

Dave Anderson:
Still an angry man

http://tinyurl.com/35h8q6

The NYT writer, not the former shortstop

For an encore, the NYT is planning to dig up a crotchety New England loyalist to pen a piece on the American Revolution.

D4P is very happy, yes? But will he be rooting for the Dodgers to lose tomorrow?

Last night's unlikely victory eliminated Bill Crain, leaving:

d4p 82
trainwreck 83
clair malone-evans 83

The keeper of the crown will be decided by tonight's Zito-Stults matchup. Tiebreaker queries should be directed toward Bob.

Hmmm...Kent says he wouldn't mind playing with Bonds again, but complains that too many teams are going with youth to make it happen.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/09/30/SPG7SH3FB.DTL

489
Rock, paper, scissors is the tiebreaker.

Best of five.

Originally, I titled this post "Smell the Bouquet." Then I read this and thought someone would criticize me for not knowing anything about wine:

"Bouquet: The complex of aromas that develops with age in fine wines; young wines have aroma, not bouquet."

I certainly thought "'84" would be self-explanatory - what else does a two-digit number mean when it has an apostrophe in front of it? But, I was wrong ...

I mean, "Savor That Bouquet"

492
I wouldn't have criticized you. But I know nothing about wine.

I was just watching Kemps great throw & I gotta tell you, equally impressive was Russell Martins great SHORT HOP catch (considering he also had to deal with a major leaguer running down the line trying to knock 'em down) Russell Martin is just flat out SICK!

Happy 75th birthday Johnny Podres!!! Podres spent parts of 14 seasons eith the Dodgers from 1953 to 66. Podres last season in 1969 was with the Padres in their fist season.

494 - Somebody here must.

New post up top.

482 Larry Merchant has a daughter in the same school and grade as my daughter. Actually I should say his grandadughter who I believe he has custody of. He pretty much keeps to himself. I have said hello to him a few times and it seems like an effort for him to say hello back.

Oh, LATty, LATty, LATty.