Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Help
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Frozen Toast
Search
Google Search
Web
Toaster
Dodger Thoughts
Archives

2009
02  01 

2008
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2007
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2006
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2005
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2004
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2003
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2002
09  08  07 
About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Big D
2007-11-08 18:50
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

A great Dodger photo I hadn't seen before is on the cover of photographer Neil Leifer's new book.

Shouldn't take some of you too long to place the date. Four games, four runs.

Keep clicking through the gallery to see more great pics.

Comments (64)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-11-08 18:57:26
1.   Bob Timmermann
And look at how many fans left early! ;-)
2007-11-08 19:03:51
2.   Frip
Speaking of high school ball from the last thread. I live in Upland and was talking to a guy at the local Outback Steakhouse bar the other night. Turns out his son is the kicker for Upland High Scool. Big deal?

OK, this kid is a freshmen, 15 years old, and he can kick a 60 yard field goal. His name is Jake Van Ginkel, and you'll remember this post one day when he's the best kicker in the NFL. I talked to his dad at a bar. Does that make me a hero? I like to think so.

The Wall Street Journal did an article on high school kickers, and a YouTube news segment on Jake, here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0oLGoYvum4&NR=1

2007-11-08 19:05:54
3.   Daniel Zappala
Very nice pictures. $400 for the book. I'm taking donations.
2007-11-08 19:11:28
4.   Sam DC
2 I'm psyched to have been there at the begining.

You ever eat at the Sycamore Inn in (I think, or maybe it's just close by) Upland?

Awesome red leather wingback chairs.

2007-11-08 19:22:00
5.   regfairfield
2 It's actually not that uncommon unless he's draining those in games. I was buddies with the kicker from my high school and he was nailing those in practice.
2007-11-08 19:23:56
6.   dzzrtRatt
I'm sending the link to any friends who don't understand why I like baseball so much. Thanks, Jon.
2007-11-08 19:31:55
7.   natepurcell
http://tinyurl.com/27fzjs

new latimes Miggy Article...

"[Forget] the veterans," Cabrera told the Palm Beach Post. "They haven't told me anything and they better not come tell me anything, either. I don't want to hear anything else. I want to play baseball, give what I have to give on the field of play and win. That's all I want."

No respect for PVL!!!

2007-11-08 19:32:48
8.   Sam DC
Bucs Dugout: "I do not like Ned Colletti one bit."

http://tinyurl.com/2wm4m7

2007-11-08 19:33:06
9.   natepurcell
People who follow Angels prospects, what are your opinions on Nick Adenhart.

He is a big name but for me, the numbers don't really back up his elite status.

2007-11-08 19:35:35
10.   regfairfield
8 Could we swing Delwyn Young and John Lindsey for Andrew McCucthen now?
2007-11-08 19:38:24
11.   natepurcell
An Angels package of Wood, Kendrick and Adenhart is similar to a Dodgers package of which players?

Laroche, Kemp and McDonald?

2007-11-08 19:48:55
12.   Daniel Zappala
9 I follow Chronicle of the Lads to learn about Angel prospects. Here's what he says about Adenhart this year:

Nick Adenhart, RHSP, AA Arkansas

W L SV G GS IP H HR SO BB ERA ERA+ PR
10 8 0 26 26 153.0 158 7 116 65 3.65 112 + 8

The only worry here is the strikeouts; Adenhart was a bit below average in a park that should have helped him. But with his age and groundball tendencies, I think there's a lot to be excited about. Just stay healthy, kid.

He's still their top pitching prospect, but I don't think that he's held in the same regard as Kershaw here. Maybe a notch below.

2007-11-08 19:50:55
13.   Daniel Zappala
11 Somewhat comparable, although LaRoche I think has more potential than Wood, due to Wood's high strikeout level, tempered only by his back trouble. Kemp > Kendrick because of his power. If they are competing with the Angels offer, I think throwing in Kemp goes beyond the Angel offer.
2007-11-08 20:02:34
14.   Bob Timmermann
Missed field goals in high school all go out to the 20 (unless they don't make it to the end zone). So coaches will try long on.

The longest attempt I was 67 and it was only that long because the QB on the other team got called for intentional grounding when he was trying to spike the ball to stop the clock (I think that was what happened).

The kick was just short.

2007-11-08 20:08:19
15.   Hallux Valgus
I knew a kicker who could nail from 60 yards in a game consistently. He was the highest rated kicker in the country, but he was terrible when he got to Florida State, because high school uses a tee and college does not.

For me, it always seemed harder to get it set on a tee, but I was a crappy kicker either way.

2007-11-08 20:10:04
16.   El Lay Dave
7 Also in that article:

Dodgers General Manager Ned Colletti would not discuss Cabrera in particular but indicated he could do a deal without such a [contract extension negotiation] window. "I don't think you negotiate a window with someone not on the verge of free agency," Colletti said.

Cabrera has two season left before being FA eligible. What does Ned consider "on the verge"? What GM in their right mind gambles three top-notch prospects on a guarantee of only two years of Cabrera?

2007-11-08 20:11:49
17.   El Lay Dave
14 Key verb missing there. Were you the kicker or an observer?
2007-11-08 20:12:08
18.   Frip
Sam DC, do you live in Upland? Yes, I go to the Sycamore Inn frequently. The high back chairs are nice, but I find them a bit scary. I feel like JR Ewing is going to walk in and tell me to get the hell outta his chair.

5 I didn't know that 65 yard field goals for 15 year olds were not that uncommon. I guess I'm not so cool after all. The dad was kind of annoying anyway. All he did was talk about his son. Fine, I was interested. But he's one of those guys that when you pipe in with one of your own little tid-bits, he completely ignores it and goes right on talking.

2007-11-08 20:15:29
19.   Bob Timmermann
15
The really good high school kickers won't use a tee because they don't want the colleges scared off.

However, it's REALLY hard to get a scholarship to play college ball as a kicker. Most schools are hesitant to have more than one or two kids on full rides at that position.

2007-11-08 20:15:34
20.   CanuckDodger
7 -- Geez, Cabrera said that? I'll say right now that if Loney, Martin, Billingsley, Kemp, or Broxton said anything like that -- especially the veterans "better not come tell me anything" part -- I would be calling for the jerk to be traded right now. If you don't believe me, look how fast I turned on Joel Guzman when it came to light what his character was like, and I had been a huge Guzman supporter. The only evidence of a bad attitude I have heard of Kemp having is that he moved a damn trash can, and we want to bring Cabrera's attitude to the Dodgers? Colletti is such a hypocrite, preaching about good character but always willing to forget about it if a guy with bad character, like Jeff Kent, is "proven."
2007-11-08 20:18:58
21.   Bob Timmermann
18
Making a 60-yard field goal in high school is a big deal with a tee or without however.

I've seen only one or two high school kickers who could do that in the years that I covered the sport.

I've seen more punters who have had punts that were negative yardage without being blocked. (And a blocked punt officially has zero yardage.)

2007-11-08 20:20:17
22.   Hallux Valgus
19 In Colorado, tees are required. Or at least were when I was there. We also specialize in kickers at the college level. I think it's because kids believe in the altitude, so good kickers come to CU and CSU.
2007-11-08 20:22:37
23.   das411
Man oh man, I missed Bowa Thoughts in the last thread but I am about 99% sure the one word that best describes him has been banned by Jon here already!

...and is anybody else starting to think that any possible package of prospects the Marlins would want for Miggy C, would be far far more than that team's fans would be willing to deal? Unless the trade is, say, Dave Wright for him straight up, is it really worth it for ANY general manager to trade two or more elite prospects for one potentially-great player?

2007-11-08 20:23:26
24.   Sam DC
18 Lived in Claremont for a couple of years, about 10 years ago. Although I did not attend any of the Claremont schools.

I really came to like the kind of old neighborhoods around Upland, La Verne, used to drive up to Mt. Baldy from time to time. Happy times.

2007-11-08 20:24:16
25.   Sam DC
23 Isn't that two words?

And didn't Jon let Alex Belth get away with it?

2007-11-08 20:25:44
26.   Bob Timmermann
24
The Upland area is known for its kickers. The Zendejas family is from around there. I believe they all went to Don Lugo.
2007-11-08 20:27:53
27.   CanuckDodger
12 -- Adenhart is further below Kershaw than just a "notch." Kershaw is regarded as either the best pitching prospect in the minors or just behind Buchholz, depending on who is doing the ranking. Adenhart does not have ace potential. And Kemp is better than Kendrick, and LaRoche is better than Wood. LaRoche has mastered the PCL two seasons in a row. Playing in an equally hitter-friendly park as LaRoche in the same league in 2007, Wood had a very worrying year, which makes him look somewhat comparable to Joel Guzman, a guy who wowed everybody below Triple A but whose tendency to whiff finally caught up with him in Triple A, exposing a possibly fatal flaw.
2007-11-08 20:30:28
28.   natepurcell
27

So what do you think would be a comparable Dodger package to that Angels one?

2007-11-08 20:31:56
29.   El Lay Dave
27 So the Shaikin's imaginary Angels' package is more comparable to LaRoche, Abreu, McDonald maybe?
2007-11-08 20:33:08
30.   El Lay Dave
29 (the thinking being LaRoche > Wood, Abreu < Kendrick, McDonald ~= Adenhart)
2007-11-08 20:38:23
31.   natepurcell
30

hmmm that package allows the Marlins to replace Miggy at 3b with Laroche, shift Hanley to CF to solve their CF problems and start Abreu at SS. And also have one the minors leading strikeout pitchers.

2007-11-08 20:43:52
32.   CanuckDodger
28 -- I hold McDonald in about the same esteem as I do Adenhart, but I can't really think of Dodger equivalents for Wood and Kendrick. If I were the Angels, I wouldn't give up Wood, Kendrick, and Adenhart for Cabrera, but if the Angels did get him, he should immediately be moved to DH. The guy is simply not a good fit in the field anymore outside of possibly first base, and he shouldn't displace Kotchman (or Loney, if he came to the Dodgers), two defensively gifted first basemen.
2007-11-08 20:45:08
33.   Bob Timmermann
And West Virginia survives its game against Louisville and seems primed to play D4P's duck in Pasadena in New Year's Day as long as West Virginia beats UConn.

The city of Pasadena is looking forward to a visit from a bunch of eager West Virginians ready to enjoy the Crown City.

2007-11-08 20:53:55
34.   Daniel Zappala
Except the Ducks may go to a BCS bowl if Ohio State or LSU loses. I wouldnt be surprised to see Michigan beat OSU.
2007-11-08 20:58:28
35.   KG16
I'm beginning to think the price for Caberra is too high.

It's starting to look like the Kobe deal, two years away from being able to leave, the team looking for "close to equal value", and no one wanting to gut their team for the talent.

Like Kobe, I don't see Caberra going anywhere this year.

2007-11-08 20:59:12
36.   regfairfield
27 Why would you say Kemp is better than Kendrick? Kendrick looks like he could be the greatest contact hitter of this generation, could develop 15-20 home run power, and plays strong defense as a middle infielder. I love both, but I would put Kendrick slightly ahead of Kemp.
2007-11-08 21:02:56
37.   Hallux Valgus
26 The Zendejas family owns a few Mexican restaurants around there. We used to love them back in the late 80's
2007-11-08 21:07:30
38.   gvette
37- There's still a Zendejas restaurant in San Dimas; don't know which of the brothers runs it.
2007-11-08 21:10:08
39.   Hallux Valgus
38 I was from Glendora, and that's the one we went to. there was a picture of Tony on the wall. I loved that restaurant. But they had a few around the area. I don't know who actually ran it.
2007-11-08 21:20:07
40.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
"Four games, four runs."

I don't understand that comment, Jon. The pic is from the '63 sweep, not the '66 Series. What am I missing?

2007-11-08 21:22:30
41.   Bob Timmermann
5-2, 4-1, 1-0, 2-1.
2007-11-08 21:23:33
42.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
40 Oh, now I see. The Yanks got only 4 runs. Sheesh, it's late here in PA.
2007-11-08 21:26:15
43.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
Anybody watching the Warriors-Mavs game?
2007-11-08 21:27:33
44.   Daniel Zappala
BYU over TCU, 27-22.
2007-11-08 21:28:28
45.   gvette
40--Unfortunately, the '66 Series was "Four games, two runs"
2007-11-08 21:29:55
46.   Bob Timmermann
44
As usual, most great theological disputes are settled on the gridiron.
2007-11-08 21:31:08
47.   A Dodger expatriate in Pennsylvania
45 Sheesh again. Time for sleep.
2007-11-08 21:38:33
48.   Daniel Zappala
46 And when you get two Catholic high schools playing each other in Anaheim stadium in front of 25,000 fans, we call that "mass".
2007-11-08 21:45:04
49.   natepurcell
48

I have a dislike for Mater Dei being a Santa Margarita alum.

2007-11-08 21:47:48
50.   dzzrtRatt
23 "is it really worth it for ANY general manager to trade two or more elite prospects for one potentially-great player?"

Cabrera's numbers have been posted on several threads so I won't repeat them. But he's not potentially great. He's great. Now. At 24.

I love our elite prospects as much as the next guy. It is one very good use of elite prospects to bring back a sure thing, if a sure thing should ever come along. Which Cabrera is.

At some point, the price is too high. But there are combinations of elite Dodger prospects I would trade for Cabrera.

Winning teams do this to get superstars.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-11-08 21:54:15
51.   KG16
49 - my dislike of Orange County Catholic Schools is reserved mostly for Servite.
2007-11-08 21:58:52
52.   CajunDodger
Speaking of great pictures, Sons of Steve Garvey may have the funniest picture I have ever seen posted.

Absolutely hysterical.

2007-11-08 21:59:05
53.   Bob Timmermann
51
You don't like schools that have big banners saying "Credo"?
2007-11-08 22:01:08
54.   Daniel Zappala
51 KG16 and I may have to become mortal enemies. I graduated from Servite, though some of my brothers graduated from Mater Dei.
2007-11-08 22:01:34
55.   KG16
53 - it's not so much because of football (I'm not sure my alma mater actually played Servite while I was in high school), but because of my sport of choice.
2007-11-08 22:12:29
56.   Eric Enders
50 "Cabrera's numbers have been posted on several threads so I won't repeat them. But he's not potentially great. He's great. Now. At 24.

I love our elite prospects as much as the next guy. It is one very good use of elite prospects to bring back a sure thing"

You're correct that Cabrera is great and not "potentially" great. However, our "elite prospects," at least most of the ones being discussed in this trade, are not prospects at all. They are established major leaguers, and excellent ones.

2007-11-08 22:19:14
57.   trainwreck
I like how I actually know some of the schools you guys talk about, just from following recruiting.
2007-11-08 22:21:40
58.   dzzrtRatt
56 Largely true. If it was up to me, Billingsley and Loney would be off the table, and if Kemp is included, they only get one additional elite prospect (presume it's LaRoche.) We have a lot of elite prospects who are still prospects who are not Kemp, Loney, or Billingsley. Our depth in elite prospects creates this opportunity.
2007-11-08 22:22:23
59.   Andrew Shimmin
Tony Zendejas owns the San Dimas restaurant. And they have free WiFi! I've only been once, but I like the coffee house across the parking lot.

http://www.zendejasmexicanrestaurant.com

2007-11-08 22:22:46
60.   CanuckDodger
50 -- Your point is negated by the fact that there is, flat out, no combination of Dodger prospects that could get Cabrera. None. Any package for Cabrera from the Dodgers would have to include one and possibly two of the Dodgers young MLB players who are already young stars and vital to the Dodgers in 2008.
2007-11-08 22:24:30
61.   KG16
59 - I know that coffee house, if only from passing by it.
2007-11-08 22:28:10
62.   Eric Stephen
59 That is the busiest website ever.
2007-11-08 22:30:49
63.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2007-11-09 09:15:24
64.   popup
Thanks for the pictures Jon. I remember the last out of Don's shutout like it was yesterday. When Pepitone made contact I was sure the ball would be in the seats. I am sure glad the fences were further back in Dodger Stadium in 1963 than they are now.

Stan from Tacoma

Comment status: comments have been closed. Baseball Toaster is now out of business.