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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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November 19 Open Chat
2007-11-19 09:29
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

For baseball talk and the usual stuff ...

  • Conversation fodder at Sons of Steve Garvey.

  • Chan Ho Park may not attempt a comeback with the Dodgers after all according to the Korea Times (via Diamond Leung at the Press-Enterprise).

  • Comments (350)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2007-11-19 09:37:17
    1.   Jacob L
    Well, I didn't think it belonged in the thread below. I just wanted to pass along a hearty mazel tov to the Kavulas.

    Love the name!

    2007-11-19 09:38:00
    2.   CajunDodger
    I wonder if the Angels trading their second or third best offensive threat and their best defensive infielder is a sign that Miggy Cabrera is coming to Anaheim...
    2007-11-19 09:40:05
    3.   Daniel Zappala
    There's definitely got to be other moves coming for the Angels. Didn't see that one coming.
    2007-11-19 09:41:10
    4.   Benaiah
    So the Angels traded Caberra for Garland. ESPN says they had to pay a steep price, but I see a guy who has had as many seasons with an OPS in the 600s as the 700s in the past four years. Maybe that Juan Pierre rumor was real. Maybe we can still foist Pierre on them.
    2007-11-19 09:42:23
    5.   LogikReader
    Having two Cabreras on the team would yield a conflict of interest. =)

    Cabrera traded to the Sox for Garland. Interesting weekend on from the stove. That puts an end to the Pierre trade talk, unless, he gets traded for Contreras.

    I had something else I just thought of, but I forgot.

    2007-11-19 09:42:58
    6.   D4P
    I love how ESPN labels Cabrera's 2007 a "career year".
    2007-11-19 09:43:00
    7.   CajunDodger
    3
    This guy is no Stoneman. He may be willing to trade the jewels of the farm for Miggy.

    That is quite the pitching staff. That also creates a placeholder in case Adenhart is traded. Very interesting move. Not sure who got the better of the move, but interesting nonetheless.

    2007-11-19 09:44:16
    8.   LogikReader
    Oh here we go, I just remembered it.

    I'm getting a real kick out of Torii Hunter this week. Two weeks ago, he talked up the White Sox, a week ago, he talked up Texas, and apparently, two threads ago, there was a report he talked up the Dodgers.

    Torii is a terrific spokesperson for himself.

    2007-11-19 09:46:59
    9.   Daniel Zappala
    Now that I think about it, Cabrera can be pretty easily replaced by Maicer Izturis. Not sure how his glove compares, but his bat is just as good.
    2007-11-19 09:47:31
    10.   LogikReader
    Now I'm getting a kick out of this...

    Ken Rosenthal: The Dodgers are desperate for offense. They want to upgrade in center field. They need a veteran leader to mend their clubhouse.

    A veteran... to mend the clubhouse? It was a veteran who ripped it up in 2007.

    2007-11-19 09:48:10
    11.   LogikReader
    10

    Tiny url is down, so here's the link to the above

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7445434

    2007-11-19 09:48:11
    12.   regfairfield
    It's rare you see two terribly overrated guys coming off fluke years traded for each other with no way to replace the hole they created on either side.

    I really don't see how either side gets any benifit from it.

    2007-11-19 09:54:24
    13.   Daniel Zappala
    12 Wasn't Garland's fluke year back in 2005? Can't the Angels replace Cabrera with Izturis easily enough?
    2007-11-19 09:55:00
    14.   CajunDodger
    12
    I see Anaheim as the winner because they get a solid 3-4 type who buys them time to get their offense in order. They now have 5 pitchers that they will control for 3 years. This allows them to focus almost all their attention on Cabrera now that their starting rotation is probably tied with Boston for the deepest in Baseball.
    2007-11-19 09:56:55
    15.   CajunDodger
    14
    Probably could have stated that better. Garland is a one-year bridge that allows one of their youngsters to step up. Didn't mean to imply that they had Garland for 3 years...
    2007-11-19 09:57:08
    16.   Benaiah
    Imagine this lineup(from Rosenthal's article):

    Rafael Furcal
    Juan Pierre
    Cabrera
    Kent
    Hunter
    James Loney
    Russell Martin
    Andre Ethier

    I tried to imagine that and it made me angry.

    2007-11-19 09:57:40
    17.   LogikReader
    14

    By Cabrera, may I assume you mean Piggy Cabrera? It sounds like a win-win if the Angels go for it.

    2007-11-19 09:58:36
    18.   regfairfield
    13 You can have multiple fluke years. He somehow managed to succeed with a strikeout rate in the low fours this year and a 1.71 K/BB. Garland doesn't deserve a spot in most rotations, let alone the Angels.
    2007-11-19 09:58:51
    19.   MC Safety
    There has to be something much larger in the works. I will guess Brandon Wood, Nick Adenhart, maybe Willits/Santana gets it done.
    2007-11-19 09:59:58
    20.   regfairfield
    13 I don't know how good Maicer's D is at short to make a judgement.
    2007-11-19 10:03:01
    21.   Bob Timmermann
    For entertainment purposes only:

    USC -3 1/2 at Arizona State
    Oregon -2 1/2 at UCLA

    2007-11-19 10:03:19
    22.   MC Safety
    20- He's an Izturis, he was born to play shortstop.
    2007-11-19 10:05:04
    23.   CajunDodger
    22
    Like a Molina at Catcher...
    2007-11-19 10:05:08
    24.   Kevin Lewis
    21

    I just remembered that Oregon's QB is out, so that is why the spread is so small.

    2007-11-19 10:05:51
    25.   Bob Timmermann
    22
    The good-fielding shortstop gene in the Izturis family is a sex-linked trait and only carried on the X chromosome.

    Maicer and Cesar have different moms.

    2007-11-19 10:06:39
    26.   D4P
    Oregon -2 1/2 at UCLA

    Wow. If that line weren't just FEPO, I'd bet the house on the home team.

    2007-11-19 10:07:05
    27.   Bob Timmermann
    24
    UCLA has two quarterbacks out, although neither of them were particularly good to begin with.
    2007-11-19 10:07:45
    28.   JoeyP
    I like this trade for the Angels.
    Garland is still in his prime (29 years old), is very durable (200+ innings the last 4 years), and has pretty good control.

    Orlando Cabrera is 33 yrs old and has a career OBP-.321, SLG-.403.

    Not sure if this was covered last week--but what on earth was Brian Sabean thinking when he re-signed Omar Vizquel?

    The guy cant hit, is older than dust, and you're going to give him 5 mils bucks a year?

    How do Giants fans maintain hope?

    2007-11-19 10:08:41
    29.   Benaiah
    20 - Garland has had an ERA under 5 every year since 2001 and an ERA under 4.6 every year except one in that same time frame. He shouldn't be able to do it, he should get rocked with that WHIP, K/9, K/BB ect. On the other hand, the fact that he has been a very serviceable back of the rotation pitcher for 6 or so years leads me to believe that his regression will be less than you think.
    2007-11-19 10:09:45
    30.   CajunDodger
    27
    I gotta say that Ben Olson may have missed his calling. I coached against his team in high school basketball and was awed by this kid's athleticism. I asked around at the game and was told that basketball was just a hobby for him and that he was planning on a football career.

    He could have been one heck of a college basketball player. Maybe not good enough for UCLA, but definitely a D-1 PAC 10 starter.

    2007-11-19 10:10:32
    31.   Benaiah
    Also, his Fielding Independent Pitching ERA has been about what his real ERA has been the last 3 years. His walk rate is pretty low, and he doesn't give up a ton of home runs. Even that is enough to be a worthwhile starter now.
    2007-11-19 10:10:53
    32.   Bob Timmermann
    And just to cover the entire Pac-10:
    Washington -5 1/2 vs Washington State
    Stanford -3 1/2 vs Notre Dame

    And for our friends across the pond:
    Hawai'i -4 vs Boise State

    2007-11-19 10:11:30
    33.   CajunDodger
    31
    That's their rotational insurance, ours is Loaiza.

    {Grumble}

    2007-11-19 10:12:53
    34.   JoeyP
    29--My theory on pitchers like Garland (whom seem to always give up less runs than what their peripherals say) is that he probably gives up alot of solo homers. Garland's a guy with good control, he's going to get ahead in the count, and batters are going to put the ball in play early thus he doesnt K many, nor walk many.

    It's probably Garland's GB/FB ratio that allows him to be successful, similar to Derek Lowe. He's probably just a little careless with givin up the solo homers early in ball games when he's trying to just get ahead in the count.

    2007-11-19 10:12:59
    35.   CajunDodger
    32
    Just to have a bit of Southern Representation:

    LSU -13 over Arkansas.

    2007-11-19 10:13:08
    36.   MC Safety
    25 Ah, although Maicer's hair stylings would lead me to believe he was the slick fielding SS of the family. The slick curls just scream SS to me.
    2007-11-19 10:13:28
    37.   dzzrtRatt
    Welcome to the world Naomi! Congratulations HK and bride of same. So happy for you all.
    2007-11-19 10:15:35
    38.   Linkmeister
    32 It shows how little I gamble on sports, but I don't understand that. Does that mean Hawai'i is favored to win by four?
    2007-11-19 10:16:26
    39.   bigcpa
    Third hand rumor:
    Miguel Cabrera & Dontrelle for Jered Weaver, Nick Adenhart, Kendrick , Mathis, Willits
    2007-11-19 10:17:48
    40.   CajunDodger
    39
    Good Lord...Just give them the Travelers while you're at it.
    2007-11-19 10:19:17
    41.   JoeyP
    I cant tinyurl link this story from yahoo, but apparently Mike Tyson was sentenced to 1 day in jail for felony possession of cocaine and DUI.

    How does a person with Tyson's record, only get 1 day in jail for felony cocaine possession?

    2007-11-19 10:19:58
    42.   MC Safety
    39 Wow, that's a mighty package. I don't think we could/would want to top anything near that. I guess you gotta pay to play.
    2007-11-19 10:21:33
    43.   Linkmeister
    32 To be clearer, it's the minus sign that throws me.
    2007-11-19 10:26:06
    44.   Benaiah
    33 - I don't understand why anyone has a problem with Loaiza. The man is the anti-Garland in terms of consistency, in 2003 he led the AL in ERA and in 2005 he had a 3.77 ERA with Washington, but he had an ERA over 5.7 in 2004 and 2007 (and a below average 4.89 in 2006).

    So who knows what he is going to do for the Dodgers, but I do know that the 4th best starter for the Dodgers last year in terms of ERA was Randy Wolf with 18 starts, 102 innings pitched and a 4.72 ERA. After that the next best starters are David Wells (5.12 ERA, 38.2 IP), Brett Tomko (5.56 ERA, 79.1 IP) and Eric Stults (5.68 ERA, 25.1 IP). Our top 3 pitchers were all very good, but the back of the rotation was absolutely putrid, so Loaiza doesn't have to set the world on fire, just pitch 150+ innings of sub 5 ERA ball and keep his seat warm for McDonald and Kershaw. Considering that his last full year in the NL (in a ridiculous pitcher's park, but still) his FIP was 3.50, I think he is a good bet.

    2007-11-19 10:29:46
    45.   Bob Timmermann
    43
    If you bet (for entertainment purposes only) on Hawai'i, the 'Bows would have to win by more than four points for you to win your bet.

    Which is for entertainment purposes only.

    2007-11-19 10:31:25
    46.   CajunDodger
    33
    My point is that our expectations for our 4-spot in the rotation is especially low.

    If Schmidt comes back and pitches in the 4.0 ERA range, that would be like Pierre with an OBP of .360. Not completely unheard of but a surprise nonetheless.

    That would put Loaiza in the 5-hole where a 4.8-5.0 ERA is acceptable. If Loaiza has to pitch in the 4-hole, I think that is an issue for the Dodgers.

    2007-11-19 10:31:38
    47.   Benaiah
    34 - That is the thing, Garland doesn't have a very high GB%. Derek Lowe's GB% is 65.1% for his career, Garland's is 43.4%. I don't know how he does it, but he does it every year.
    2007-11-19 10:32:07
    48.   D4P
    I don't understand why anyone has a problem with Loaiza

    1. He's not very good
    2. He'll be 37 years old when the season starts

    2007-11-19 10:32:44
    49.   CajunDodger
    Lowell just signed with the Red Sox.
    2007-11-19 10:35:32
    50.   D4P
    49
    Both sides have been in intense negotiations all Monday. According to ESPN's Peter Gammons, both the Phillies and Dodgers were apparently willing to go to four years, but Lowell wants to remain in Boston.
    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2007-11-19 10:35:38
    51.   underdog
    49 Great! One more overpriced veteran off the market.

    Now if only someone else will sign Aaron Rowand, and then Pierre is traded to the White Sox for a pair of sox, and then the Dodgers sign Andruw or Torii or do nothing, and I'll be relieved.

    2007-11-19 10:36:42
    52.   Benaiah
    48 - He is signed to a one year contract and he isn't expected to carry the team. As I pointed out, he will be expected to replace 5+ ERA performance, not be the team ace.
    2007-11-19 10:37:48
    53.   Linkmeister
    45 Thanks. Minus signs, bleah.
    2007-11-19 10:39:19
    54.   JoeyP
    Why would the Dodgers committ 4 years to Mike Lowell?
    2007-11-19 10:39:23
    55.   D4P
    52
    I don't disagree with that, I just see reasons to "have a problem" with the guy. Plus, he's getting paid $7 million to do what Tomko did for $4, and Hendrickson did for less than $4.
    2007-11-19 10:39:27
    56.   LogikReader
    51

    Hooray for the Red Sox!

    So once again, NedCo is thwarted by the other teams. Part of the fun in all this is the degree to which Ned has become oh so predictable.

    2007-11-19 10:40:07
    57.   Kevin Lewis
    53

    Just picture the score starting out as

    Hawaii -4
    Boise 0

    2007-11-19 10:40:43
    58.   D4P
    Why would the Dodgers committ 4 years to Mike Lowell?

    This is the same team that committed:

    1. 3 years to Mueller
    2. 2 years to LuGo (which he declined)
    3. 5 years to Pierre

    2007-11-19 10:40:47
    59.   Kevin Lewis
    54

    It is kind of like Gonzo turning down 2 years. We keep getting lucky in spite of Ned.

    2007-11-19 10:42:39
    60.   LogikReader
    59

    Honestly, I just don't get it... Ned wants to "win now" but for 3-4 years?

    2007-11-19 10:44:42
    61.   D4P
    The surprising thing to me about Ned's pursuit of a 3B is what it would mean for Nomar. Is Ned really gonna pay Nomar $8.5 to sit on the bench? Or is Nomar moving over to 1B, to replace the benched/traded James Loney?
    2007-11-19 10:45:20
    62.   bhsportsguy
    59 As ToyCannon and I were discussing last night, don't believe a lot of what you hear in terms of offers from other teams, the fact is that Mike Lowell never wanted to go anywhere else but Boston but he wanted one more year but Boston would not budge, the reports of additional years could be put out there as cover as agents and players are wondering what is happening to the market.
    2007-11-19 10:45:56
    63.   MC Safety
    41 That is amazing. Whatever remaining clout he must have had is probably gone. This has to be that guy's last chance.
    2007-11-19 10:46:09
    64.   MC Safety
    41 That is amazing. Whatever remaining clout he must have had is probably gone. This has to be that guy's last chance.
    2007-11-19 10:46:22
    65.   Rob M
    Mike Lowell for four years...what in the hell is Ned thinking? That dumbfounds me. What do Kim Ng and Logan White think about that? Is there no sense in that front office?
    2007-11-19 10:47:05
    66.   MC Safety
    whoops..sorry
    2007-11-19 10:47:50
    67.   Andrew Shimmin
    There are lots of tinyurl counterparts.

    http://lists.econsultant.com/top-10-url-redirection-services.html

    2007-11-19 10:49:06
    68.   Benaiah
    It was weird that the Dodgers didn't get any good, short starting seasons last year. In 2006 Aaron Sele, Kuo, Billingsley and Stults combined for 37 starts with cumulative ERA under 4, in the valley of dry bones, 2005, Dessens and Derek Thompson got 10 starts under 4, and in 2004 the Dodgers got 151 innings from Jose Lima! Every starter other than Billingsley, Penny and Lowe was below average last year.
    2007-11-19 10:49:52
    69.   alexx
    I predict La Roche will outperform Lowell in each year of Lowell's new contract.
    2007-11-19 10:50:48
    70.   bhsportsguy
    I mean really, I know GMs don't talk so all you hear is from one side but its obvious, something is amiss right now, spending isn't crazy and once A-Rod couldn't get his mega mega mega deal and just his mega deal, it really changed the dynamic of this off-season.

    I think folks are so ready to dump on Ned that every rumor gets scrutinized and disected.

    A lot of face saving is going on right now, and Don Fehr is probably real suspicious about that GM discussion where everyone talked about what they are looking for their ball clubs.

    2007-11-19 10:51:16
    71.   fiddlestick
    I enjoy seeing reactions when a reporter reports something without a source but reinforces one's particular opinion. It's automatically regarded as 100% true.
    2007-11-19 10:52:25
    72.   ssjames
    Not that it necessarily meant anything, but on Monday of last week, I played in the Mike Scioscia charity golf tournament at Woodranch country club. Also there was Garland and Scioscia was saying that he wished the Angels would get him. At the time, I figured it was just a joke, but he also said that he would want them to get Jack Wilson, who was there as well.
    2007-11-19 10:52:41
    73.   Daniel Zappala
    This is going to be my pet peeve for this offseason I guess. Gammons says the Dodgers apparently were ready to give Lowell 4 years, with no sources, and everyone here assumes this is true and stupid old Colletti was saved by another GM. I'm not a huge Colletti fan, but come on, these are rumors, guys. You're all sentenced to writing out Jon's rumors post 10 times. Here's the URL:

    http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/866211.html

    2007-11-19 10:52:54
    74.   underdog
    I agree with BH, above - we have no proof or confirmation that these rumored contract offers have any basis in truth. A lot of stuff is put out there by agents, in addition to lazy sports writers. I wouldn't overreact based on something that may or may not be true that certainly isn't happening. (Not that it isn't possible, or is beyond Ned Colletti's modus operandi to make such an offer. Just sayin'.)
    2007-11-19 10:53:11
    75.   underdog
    Or, what Daniel said.
    2007-11-19 10:53:38
    76.   CajunDodger
    55
    The only good things I can see about Loaiza are:

    A. Only one year
    B. Potential to be very good if healthy.

    2007-11-19 10:54:25
    77.   Daniel Zappala
    62 bhsportsguy is spared, obviously
    2007-11-19 10:55:28
    78.   silverwidow
    I guess this is what the Angels have now:

    C Mathis/Napoli
    1B Kotchman
    2B Kendrick
    SS E. Aybar
    3B Figgins/Wood
    LF Willits
    CF Matthews
    RF Guerrero
    DH Anderson

    2007-11-19 10:56:05
    79.   bhsportsguy
    77 Its printed out and is taped on my monitor. :)
    2007-11-19 10:57:00
    80.   Andrew Shimmin
    Mueller was a two year contract. Surprising that it even seemed longer, given it only lasted 107 ABs.
    2007-11-19 10:57:40
    81.   bhsportsguy
    77 Did any Angel fan see this coming? Is Brandon Wood going to move back to SS, is Aybar ready or is another Izzy going to play SS for another So Cal team?
    2007-11-19 10:59:16
    82.   Xeifrank
    Loaiza's biggest problem is his propensity of giving up too many home runs. His K/9 is projected to be better than Lowe's and equal to Penny's. His K/BB better than Billingsley's. His K-BB/IP better than Lowe's. But his HR/9 is pretty bad. Chances are he will be good in Petco and SF, bad in Colorado and Arizona and good/bad in LA. The salary is a little high for his skill sets, but as a 5th starter and only signed for one year, he's not an albatross. I think he's a little better than Stultoun.

    vr, Xei

    2007-11-19 11:00:56
    83.   underdog
    This is totally off the subject, but thought I'd plug an interview I just put up: Todd Haynes talks about his new crazy Dylan movie:
    http://www.greencine.com/central/toddhaynes
    2007-11-19 11:02:41
    84.   CajunDodger
    78
    Potential is good, but yuck.

    The Angels are definitely not done. That was just the first domino.

    2007-11-19 11:03:55
    85.   Daniel Zappala
    78 ,81 Assuming no other trades, I think M. Izturis starts at SS for the Angels, with Wood/Figgins at 3B. They also have McPherson coming back from an injury. My guess is McPherson at 3B in AAA, Wood at 3B with the Angels.

    The struggle to replace Glaus with McPherson may be weighing on their minds as they look at Wood. I wouldn't be surprised if they traded for Cabrera, sending a good package of prospects + Santana. I just hope they don't trade Kendrick.

    2007-11-19 11:05:02
    86.   Daniel Zappala
    BH, no I don't think any Angels fan saw that coming. There's no way the Angels are done though.
    2007-11-19 11:08:42
    87.   bhsportsguy
    Just wondering, if folks would have thought a Furcal for Garland deal would have been a good trade, me no because that would probably give more excuses to keep Pierre but also Hu may not be ready to start the season at SS.
    2007-11-19 11:12:17
    88.   LogikReader
    You are right, Daniel. I should know better.
    2007-11-19 11:14:00
    89.   CajunDodger
    87
    I would not care for that trade too much. I just looked over the ChiSox roster, and an equitable trade just doesn't seem to fit.
    2007-11-19 11:15:16
    90.   JoeyP
    87--It depends on what the Dodgers would have used the Furcal money (13 mils) on.

    I'd have liked that deal, just bc Furcal is way way overpaid.

    2007-11-19 11:21:01
    91.   dzzrtRatt
    71 Case in point: Every political blog and most political pundits. The "too good to check" rule applies to how every rumored scandal is reported nowadays. If you happen to find logical inconsistencies in a given allegation, you will be met with ad hominem attacks about your presumed political affiliations.

    The "Ned is so stupid he would probably give Aaron Rowand a 10-year contract" type of comment is the one blemish on this otherwise wonderful oasis of baseball conversation. For me anyway. I disagree with a lot of what Ned has done, but you can't extrapolate from his mistakes that he will make blatantly illogical decisions any more than you can claim all his good moves make him a genius.

    2007-11-19 11:21:35
    92.   Fallout
    The Angel trade was a big surprise to me. I like Orlando Cabrera a lot. I think that this was a move to setup a Miguel Tejada trade.
    2007-11-19 11:23:12
    93.   silverwidow
    90 I believe the Dodgers owe Furcal $17 million (which includes a $4M signing bonus to be paid in 01/09).
    2007-11-19 11:23:48
    94.   Terry A
    91 Can I still say that Ned Colletti's momma is so fat she ate the internet?
    2007-11-19 11:24:48
    95.   CajunDodger
    91
    I know that I have become much more "sky is falling" concerning the Dodgers than I used to be. Speaking just for myself, our inconsistency as an organization and McCourt's OCD with his public image has tinkered with my logical abilities.

    I want to trust Ned and have him do a good job, but my expectations are irrationally low and this is where I vent.

    2007-11-19 11:25:45
    96.   underdog
    87 No, I would've hated that trade. Furcal had a down 07 because of injuries, but when healthy he's a key cog in the Dodgers' offense. You don't trade that - large contract or no - for an average starter, in my opinion.
    2007-11-19 11:26:42
    97.   LogikReader
    91

    I take 13.7% responsibility for the Sky is Falling Attitude.

    2007-11-19 11:28:54
    98.   fanerman
    I, for once, did not contribute to today's SIFA.
    2007-11-19 11:28:54
    99.   bhsportsguy
    90 Wouldn't a lot of that money been spent on acquiring Garland?
    2007-11-19 11:32:29
    100.   gvette
    91 The correct statement would be;
    "Kevin Malone is/was so stupid he would probably give Aaron Rowand a ten year contract."
    Show/Hide Comments 101-150
    2007-11-19 11:32:47
    101.   Disabled List
    Lowell turns down the extra year (allegedly) to stay with the BoSox... How come we couldn't get that kind of loyalty from Eric Gagne and Adrian Beltre? I guess the World Series title and an incredibly rich owner have something to do with it, but still...
    2007-11-19 11:33:25
    102.   Bob Timmermann
    Kevin Malone would have bid himself up to giving Aaron Rowand a ten-year contract.
    2007-11-19 11:34:40
    103.   CajunDodger
    100
    That joke has a lot of punchlines:

    Kevin Malone is so stupid, he would _______.

    2007-11-19 11:35:37
    104.   CajunDodger
    102
    I bet we would have gotten ARod, though by paying roughly $450 mil for 12 years...
    2007-11-19 11:37:53
    105.   Ken Noe
    FWIW, Rotoworld doubts that NedCo offered Lowell four years. Kevin Malone...no, I'm shuddering so much thinking about him that I can't finish it.
    2007-11-19 11:38:16
    106.   Disabled List
    Kevin Malone is so stupid, he would make multiple trades with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays and NOT acquire either of their two best players.

    Wait... what?

    2007-11-19 11:40:17
    107.   Bob Timmermann
    105
    Doesn't it make you want to go to Malone's car dealership and see what kind of deal you can make?
    2007-11-19 11:40:18
    108.   bhsportsguy
    104 If LSU were to somehow lose the SEC championship game, we could have an exciting Kansas vs. Ohio State BCS Title game, just think a lot of mid-westerners walking around Bourbon Street.
    2007-11-19 11:40:53
    109.   CajunDodger
    105
    That does not seem like Ned's MO. Pierre is the one guy offered a long term deal, but Furcal, Schmidt, and Nomar (the first time) got short term, above market money deals.
    2007-11-19 11:42:25
    110.   Bob Timmermann
    Tinyurl is back in business:

    St. Louis is no longer America's most dangerous city. It's now Detroit.

    http://tinyurl.com/yqbavm

    The buzz from the 2006 World Series must have made a difference.

    2007-11-19 11:43:03
    111.   dzzrtRatt
    95 , I think 94 's solution solves the need for venting. Don't know if Jon agrees, but I think Colletti's mustache is fair game. And maybe his momma too.

    I just don't like the adrenalin rush these dire predictions put me through. Plus, in thinking about what Colletti might do, it's important to factor in the market he's dealing in. It's not as if Ned went into a store, saw Juan Pierre on the shelf and put him in his basket. There are a lot of strands to that story.

    Colletti's big blind spot is his lack of confidence in young players. That's why we have Pierre, that's why he allegedly pursued Lowell. I'm hoping his experience with Martin, Loney and Billingsley has begun to persuade him differently. But given that bias, most of his moves have a logic to them.

    2007-11-19 11:43:23
    112.   CajunDodger
    108
    Perish the thought. I am hoping for an Ohio State V. LSU matchup, but I wouldn't mind seeing what Arizona State would have in the tank should they beat USC.
    2007-11-19 11:46:39
    113.   Daniel Zappala
    107 I did buy a car from Malone's dealership -- Stockton to Malone Honda.
    2007-11-19 11:47:01
    114.   bhsportsguy
    112 For that you would need Kansas or Missouri to lose the Big 12 title game. ASU would seem to have a lot of hurdles, isn't really just 3 other teams assuming LSU wins out, either Kansas, Missouri or Ohio State?
    2007-11-19 11:48:22
    115.   dzzrtRatt
    101 Mike Lowell: The Movie.

    In a world where loyalty is a distant memory, one man was willing to sacrifice for his team and its fans...Mike Lowell. He wanted four years, he needed four years, and his brilliant agent got him four years. But he only took three ... so he could play again for the fans he loves.

    I can't help but believe the supposed offers Lowell got for four years are pure fiction from an agent trying to make himself and his client look good.

    2007-11-19 11:49:30
    116.   Bob Timmermann
    112
    America does not need to see Ohio State play in the BCS championship for 10 more years after the Buckeyes' performance this past January.

    Maybe 20 years.

    I'm not sure what the recommended minimum sentence is for that sort of performance. But I do believe sweater vests should be outlawed. Preferably by some sort of UN convention.

    2007-11-19 11:51:05
    117.   bhsportsguy
    116 Are sweater vests on the list, what about Bellichek's hoodies?
    2007-11-19 11:51:12
    118.   Linkmeister
    83 I'm reading that right now. I'm strongly tempted to load up iTunes and play "Like a Rolling Stone" while doing so.

    Is that overkill? ;)

    2007-11-19 11:54:17
    119.   gvette
    107 "Let me get this straight Kevin, besides the Benz you're throwing in free gas, I get my own personal mechanic named Rolf,unlimited free trips to the Daimler factory in Germany, PLUS the floor mats,key chain and travel mug?"
    2007-11-19 11:54:27
    120.   Bob Timmermann
    117
    I believe the subject of the professional football team in Massachusetts is soon going to become a Rule 14.
    2007-11-19 11:55:45
    121.   D4P
    Mike Lowell. He wanted four years, he needed four years, and his brilliant agent got him four years. But he only took three ... so he could play again for the fans he loves.

    He "needed" four years...? In what way did he "need" four years? And if we take as given the ridiculous contention that he "needed" four years, why then did he "only" take three?

    2007-11-19 11:56:40
    122.   D4P
    121
    Rule 15: Reporting that Rule 14 caused you to violate Rule 13.
    2007-11-19 11:57:02
    123.   Jon Weisman
    120 - I don't think I'll need that as Rule 14. I'll just start rooting for the Patriots.
    2007-11-19 11:58:36
    124.   CajunDodger
    116
    Why do you think I want to play them so badly? Ohio State looks a lot like the Virginia Tech team we demolished. Strong defense, semi-one dimensional offense.

    I no longer think that LSU, if they make it through the SEC title game, needs to prove anything after beating 5 ranked (at the time of play) teams and one more in the SEC title game (assuming we get through Arkansas).

    I would love to play Southeast Missouri State in the BCS title game.

    2007-11-19 11:59:00
    125.   bhsportsguy
    123 What's your thought on this off-season where players are resigning with their teams and money, while not bargain basement, thus far no outragous signings yet?
    2007-11-19 12:00:21
    126.   Bob Timmermann
    124
    But perhaps LSU should play Ohio State, so Les Miles can get ready for coaching against Jim Tressel next year.
    2007-11-19 12:00:29
    127.   old dodger fan
    If the Red Sox, Patriots and Celtics all win titles this year I will be sick. Even BC is good this year.
    2007-11-19 12:00:34
    128.   Robert Daeley
    121 I get the feeling D4P is a Don Quixote whose windmills are also imaginary. ;)
    2007-11-19 12:00:39
    129.   underdog
    118 Not at all! Now, if you were reading that, listing to Dylan, and had "No Direction Home" documentary on in the background, that would be overkill.
    2007-11-19 12:00:54
    130.   CajunDodger
    125
    JC Romero?
    2007-11-19 12:02:53
    131.   Sam DC
    I am certainly amazed that Tom Glavine left, what $5 million, on the table in moving to Atlanta. Did he misread the market, or did he know he he was doing this when he turned down his Mets option?
    2007-11-19 12:03:45
    132.   CajunDodger
    126
    I will ignore that statement.

    Just like Twins fans are ignoring the fact that Santana's contract is expiring...

    2007-11-19 12:04:04
    133.   Jon Weisman
    125 - My first thought is it's too early to draw any real conclusions. Maybe things'll keep calm, but there's plenty of time for something outrageous.
    2007-11-19 12:04:57
    134.   bhsportsguy
    130 But he just re-upped with the Phillies right?

    I think there is a different category for guys like Lowell, Schilling, Posada, Rivera, and even A-Rod going back to their same club. Glavine too went back home for less money than he had guaranteed from the Mets.

    Why hasn't Kyle Loshe or Andruw Jones had any serious offere yet.

    2007-11-19 12:05:04
    135.   CajunDodger
    131
    That's nothing. When Boras does his press conference with ARod, he will opine that he left about $80 mil on the table to "make sure that his family was comfortable".
    2007-11-19 12:05:39
    136.   Linkmeister
    129 Ah, good.

    Actually, when I bought and installed the new turntable last week the first album I put on was "Blood on the Tracks." I have to admit, though, it was because it was handy, not because it was a totem.

    Dylan Thoughts!

    2007-11-19 12:05:47
    137.   dzzrtRatt
    121 I was doing an imitation of the movie trailer guy. Maybe the joke wasn't properly flagged. My point was, Lowell probably didn't have a four-year offer from anybody, including the Dodgers. His agent just wants you to think so, because it makes him look good as a negotiator and makes Lowell look like a great Boston hero.

    Maybe if I'd ended it with Cue: "Dirty Water"

    2007-11-19 12:06:35
    138.   Benaiah
    The Norman Lear Center and Zogby completed a study that compared political opinions and entertainment choices and discovered that entertainment was just as divided as politics. I thought I was a true original, but it turns out all you need to know is one word and you can extrapolate the rest.

    http://www.learcenter.org/html/projects/?cm=zogby

    2007-11-19 12:07:31
    139.   old dodger fan
    ESPN lists all the available free agents. Of the starting pitchers, excluding Pettitte who does not seem inclined to go anywhere, they rate the 2 best as Kyle Lohse and Carlos Silva. They seem like a poor #3 or a good #4 starter to me.

    Any ideas as to what kind of contract a player like that will get?

    2007-11-19 12:07:50
    140.   CajunDodger
    134
    I think that Boras will wait for Hunter and Rowand to define the market. The same for Lohse. I think that his market will be defined by Carlos Silva.
    2007-11-19 12:14:03
    141.   underdog
    136 Um... turntable?

    Dinosaur Thoughts!

    2007-11-19 12:16:08
    142.   bhsportsguy
    140 I think that his market will be defined by Carlos Silva.

    I cannot believe that such a sentence could actually be written.

    2007-11-19 12:16:44
    143.   Sam DC
    RIP Mr. Whipple.
    2007-11-19 12:17:52
    144.   bhsportsguy
    141 I believe now in the space that a turntable took, an entire audio/visual control center including CD/DVD could be placed.
    2007-11-19 12:17:56
    145.   fanerman
    I just clicked on Dodger Blues, and saw that they now have a countdown for "games until Pierre's contract ends." That's great. How long has that been up there?
    2007-11-19 12:18:28
    146.   bhsportsguy
    143 Your children will never know the magic of squeezing toilet paper.
    2007-11-19 12:18:59
    147.   dzzrtRatt
    141 Trendy new music thing: Sell a new album in LP form, but provide either a CD or a downloading code with it.

    So, yeah, turntables are making a comeback. Some would say "warmer sound," but I have to think another motive is to provide something with perceived value to the buyer, instead of a bunch of zeros and ones on a shiny disk, which seems like it should be cheaper.

    If it means we can bring back Hipgnosis and other cover art masters, I would be okay with this trend.

    2007-11-19 12:20:07
    148.   CajunDodger
    142
    God bless the Hot Stove season where the FA burner has been turned off.
    2007-11-19 12:20:40
    149.   fanerman
    147 I think LP's have always had their place in the audiophile world. I myself have looked into getting one for quite some time, but I keep finding other things that ought to be higher priority. I already have various ways of playing music.
    2007-11-19 12:21:52
    150.   the2pin
    Reminder: So far the Dodgers have missed out on every premium player in the market

    Now that the Angels have Garland, is there any doubt they are loading up for Cabrera?

    The Dodgers may be competitive by playing the kids, but it is laughable that in one of the most prestigous sports markets in the nation (Los Angeles), a wealthy franchise cannot land a marquee free agent.

    Show/Hide Comments 151-200
    2007-11-19 12:22:04
    151.   Bob Timmermann
    144
    But what am I going to do with all my wax cylinders I have left?

    When I was in library school at Berkeley, we had a field trip down to Stanford and got to see some wax cylinders in an archive there. They didn't play any of them for us.

    2007-11-19 12:23:15
    152.   regfairfield
    142 Man Estaban Loaiza looks good right now.
    2007-11-19 12:25:27
    153.   bigcpa
    150 How many premium players have switched teams so far?
    2007-11-19 12:25:39
    154.   regfairfield
    150 Every "marquee" free agent that's signed has just gone back to their same team at a discount, I don't think we can compete with that.
    2007-11-19 12:26:18
    155.   CajunDodger
    152
    As bad as Loaiza could be, at least we have committed $7 million instead of $45 million.

    I think that is what the Rangers said when they acquired Kenny Lofton last year.

    "He may not be great, but at least we didn't pay Matthews or Pierre $50 million."

    2007-11-19 12:28:59
    156.   D4P
    As bad as Loaiza could be, at least we have committed $7 million instead of $45 million

    I understand your point, but I hope we haven't gotten to the point where it's "OK" to pay someone $7 million a year to do a bad job and then to sit on a bench, only to be used sparingly before being released outright and paid the remainder of the $7 million to do whatever the heck they want to do.

    2007-11-19 12:30:11
    157.   fiddlestick
    145-- Since about half way through the season last year if I remember correctly.
    2007-11-19 12:32:36
    158.   driches
    not sure when this broke and if it's old news, but the Dodgers' would-be 2008 third baseman just won his third MVP award.
    2007-11-19 12:33:20
    159.   Dodgers49
    Dodgers Mailbag: Trade chips prove enticing

    1). Why does every trade rumor involving the Dodgers mention their best hitting prospect in the last 15 years, Matt Kemp, and arguably the best lefty pitching prospect in all of baseball, Clayton Kershaw.
    2). What if Jeff Kent doesn't return?
    3). With the Dodgers being in the largest market outside of New York, why haven't they built a modern stadium to improve revenue so they can afford the top available talent (like the Yankees are doing)?
    4). Why are the Dodgers planning to play games in China this spring, instead of spending their entire final spring in Vero Beach?

    2007-11-19 12:33:51
    160.   Benaiah
    156 - You are describing the worst case scenario, Ned didn't pick him up because we need one of those guys, but rather because if healthy he will probably give us a 4-5 ERA at a position where there is NO ONE on the market. I bet Loaiza would get a contract higher than 1 year 7 million on the market this year.
    2007-11-19 12:34:00
    161.   D4P
    158
    That reminds me: was there an MVP award for the baseball World Cup, and if so, did the Dodgers' should-be 2008 third baseman win it?
    2007-11-19 12:36:50
    162.   Bob Timmermann
    Jayson Nix was named MVP of the Baseball World Cup.
    2007-11-19 12:37:23
    163.   D4P
    159
    But Kent hasn't officially told the Dodgers (he would return).

    Maybe that's why the Dodgers have spoken to free agents Geoff Blum and Tadahito Iguchi.

    2007-11-19 12:38:05
    164.   thinkblue0
    I believe now in the space that a turntable took, an entire audio/visual control center including CD/DVD could be placed.

    yeah, but none of that would sound nearly as good as the vinyl.

    2007-11-19 12:38:53
    165.   Bob Timmermann
    Cumulative stats for Team USA in the World Cup:
    http://s29178.gridserver.com/images/country_stats/usa.htm

    Supposedly, one game's stats were wiped out because Paname forfeited although I don't know if that is reflected in those states.

    The U.S. played 10 games. The pitchers are credited with just 9.

    2007-11-19 12:39:22
    166.   Dodgers49
    150 Now that the Angels have Garland, is there any doubt they are loading up for Cabrera?

    Could be. Somehow I'm reminded of the DePo trade when everyone expected Randy Johnson to end up in Los Angeles. Let's hope things work out better for the Angels and their new GM.

    2007-11-19 12:39:29
    167.   still bevens
    159 So it looks like a bunch of split squad games will be played in Florida all spring. Wont that consist of alot of players the posters would like to see? Guys like Hu, Young, Kershaw, etc? At least I hope so and its not the John Lindseys and Mitch Jones' of the world.
    2007-11-19 12:39:36
    168.   fanerman
    164 I think SACD/DVD-A ought to sound as good or better than vinyl. Or at least they mimic the vinyl "warmth."
    2007-11-19 12:39:41
    169.   CajunDodger
    160
    I tend to agree. Taking a one-year gamble on Loaiza is much better than signing a putrid major leaguer to a $900,000 contract and knowing that he will suck.

    It seems to be better than putting up 4 years for a guy that will probably be league average or slightly worse.

    2007-11-19 12:40:21
    170.   Bob Timmermann
    The stats do just count 9 games for the World Cup for both pitchers and hitters. LaRoche was 3 for 4 against Panama, but that game isn't included.
    2007-11-19 12:43:03
    171.   dzzrtRatt
    150 Landing a "marquee free agent" is so last century. In this decade, most of the marquee FA's have proven to be either disappointments or nightmares. Even the ones who worked out, like Soriano, required the winning team to give away much too much.

    I think one of the stories of this year's offseason is teams dialing back from the 7-year, $140 mil types of contracts. Nobody's so desperate they're willing to get stuck with another Carl Pavano, Mike Hampton or Jason Giambi.

    The more modern trend is to do what Boston's done: Gather up some prime prospects and trade them to a poor team with a superstar they can't sign. The concept of free agency becomes a factor in those deals, but it is never actually used.

    The other modern trend is Ned's signing of Furcal. Too much money, but not too many years. Arguably, the year he did it, the Furcal signing was the best FA signing of the offseason.

    2007-11-19 12:45:36
    172.   fanerman
    171 If Ned trades some prime prospects for Cabrera, should we start calling him: Ned "The Trend Setter" Colletti?
    2007-11-19 12:46:33
    173.   MC Safety
    147 Hipgnosis did I, Robot for Alan Parsons Project!
    2007-11-19 12:48:31
    174.   LogikReader
    171

    It has to be one of the strange consequences of free agency.

    --

    Anybody see that Subway commercial for the Subway Feast? That was one of the best Subway commercials in a long time.

    What does it say about me when a cartoon convinces me to eat a sandwich?

    2007-11-19 12:51:55
    175.   D4P
    What does it say about me when a cartoon convinces me to eat a sandwich?

    That you qualify for a GM position.

    2007-11-19 12:55:08
    176.   silverwidow
    Matthew Pouliot at Rotoworld predicts:

    Ethier to Rangers for RHP Frank Francisco and RHP Armando Galarraga

    2007-11-19 12:57:44
    177.   underdog
    And how often is Rotoworld accurate about trade predictions? Do they have an inside source? Just asking.
    2007-11-19 12:58:37
    178.   Ken Noe
    163 So no one considering retirement ever calls Ned back?
    2007-11-19 12:59:48
    179.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
    158
    I think that news broke back in September sometime.
    2007-11-19 13:00:25
    180.   dzzrtRatt
    176 At least there is a logic to it. We've got a lot of outfielders and might get another one, but we don't have a lot of pitching prospects as a hedge against injuries in the starting corps.

    But it's probably imaginary.

    2007-11-19 13:02:23
    181.   dzzrtRatt
    oh wait, Francisco's the chair-tosser. Not a prospect. More like a felon.
    2007-11-19 13:04:14
    182.   silverwidow
    Not a prospect. More like a felon.

    Oh man, that was HILARIOUS.

    2007-11-19 13:05:50
    183.   D4P
    I wonder if the "really old scout who was the only one to have heard of the AA minor league player of the year that the computer-users had never heard of" would be sad if Ethier were to be traded.
    2007-11-19 13:06:09
    184.   Sam DC
    The other guy came from the Nationals in the Soriano deal.

    Here's what a Nats minor league observer said about him at the time: http://tinyurl.com/cndn6

    Lots of water under the bridge since then, however.

    2007-11-19 13:06:38
    185.   Ken Noe
    180 The writer did say that they were his thoughts, not reported rumors.

    163 Blum's supposedly signed with the Astros, according to Richard Justice of the Houston paper. Rotoworld reports that Iguchi wants three years but will be lucky to get two.

    2007-11-19 13:11:20
    186.   underdog
    If Kent doesn't come back, I do actually like Iguchi - an Iguchi-Abreu platoon wouldn't be too shabby. (Though not anywhere close to Kent's slugging numbers.) But yeah, anything more than 2 for Iguchi is wishful thinking on his part.

    By the way, wouldn't it be funny if Kent retires and then the Dodgers win the world series in '08 without him? I'd laugh.

    2007-11-19 13:13:08
    188.   D4P
    By the way, wouldn't it be funny if Kent retires and then the Dodgers win the world series in '08 without him? I'd laugh

    A man after my own heart. Kemp could be the MVP, of the season and the series.

    2007-11-19 13:13:54
    189.   TheBigGrabowski
    83 The soundtrack is really good as well. My favorite off it is Stephen Malkmus covering Ballad of a Thin Man.
    2007-11-19 13:17:29
    190.   old dodger fan
    188 And Juan Pierre steals home in the bottom of the 10th inning in game 7 to win it.
    2007-11-19 13:20:57
    191.   Bob Timmermann
    And we have a winner of the new reality show "Make the Most Inappropriate Comment."
    2007-11-19 13:24:57
    192.   D4P
    191
    And I thought I was the biggest jerk for pointing out that the photo in the Shawn Reeder-related thread did not show the player the caption said it did...
    2007-11-19 13:26:36
    193.   Ken Noe
    186 188 Kent will be back for his money, he just wants to give Charlie Kemp hope before he pulls the football away.
    2007-11-19 13:29:57
    194.   bhsportsguy
    167 Somehow, I have to believe Hu will be going to Asia.

    Don't know why, call it a hunch.

    2007-11-19 13:30:38
    195.   Linkmeister
    141 et. seq. on turntables:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/56759872@N00/2047658427/

    I got it because it was half-price at Amazon ($87.99) and because it has digital software and cabling capacity. I have about 300 LPs, maybe half of which I'd like to burn to CD.

    2007-11-19 13:34:22
    196.   underdog
    That's cool, Link. I love LPs still, myself, and think it would be cool to have the means to burn them to CD. It's just unusual these days to meet anyone with a record player, other than my DJ friends. I do need a way to copy my old ELO records to CD... hm.
    2007-11-19 13:35:31
    197.   LogikReader
    I hope I don't rule 8 this...

    I love crossing off names on my "Don't want to happen" list. Mike Lowell is now a non-issue :)

    2007-11-19 13:37:16
    198.   Linkmeister
    I actually now have two working turntables (the new one and one of those retro Crosley "portable" things with a terrible stylus and no ability to swap it out -- it was a Christmas gift a couple of years ago) and one that I'd really like to have functional. Unfortunately the latter (the Pioneer on the left in the picture) had the belt disintegrate in place around the platter, and I've not been able to get the residue off yet.
    2007-11-19 13:44:25
    199.   El Lay Dave
    181 The chair-tosser once at IU was known as "The General". Should the Texas Ranger be known as "El Generalissimo" Francisco, Frank?
    2007-11-19 13:44:34
    200.   LogikReader
    Well as long as we're talking about it, I have a Dual 506 that has been collecting dust for the last two years. I love it, but there's no room in my apartment to put it, nor is there time to listen to records on it. Man I love listening to records. It's an organic experience that's hard to beat, even with the surface noise. The best thing is, the "software" comes pretty cheaply, even the new LPs.
    Show/Hide Comments 201-250
    2007-11-19 13:48:16
    201.   MC Safety
    I love vinyl. I remember looking through my parents collection as a kid and being so interested. Ive been buying random vinyl ever since.
    2007-11-19 13:55:29
    202.   bhsportsguy
    201 First LP, More of the Monkees.
    2007-11-19 13:58:15
    203.   El Lay Dave
    I still have a working Technics turntable. The exact model escapes me, but it was DJ-quality c. 1984 when I acquired it. It is useful for playing my vinyl, more than 1000 albums.

    I have to second the notion that it is album-art that has really suffered in the CD-era; so much more can be done on a 12"x12" canvas. Of course, soon enough, the entire experience, audio and visual, will be purely digital datastream from the internet.

    2007-11-19 13:59:12
    204.   Penarol1916
    Wait, so we have a BCS discussion and noone realizes that Ohio State is not just behind the Big 12 teams in the pecking order but also West Virginia? My mother is very torn about this weekend's game, PhD from KU, professor at MU, what to do? Oh wait, she doesn't care, she's letting my brother go with my dad go to the game in Kansas City with her ticket.
    2007-11-19 13:59:14
    205.   Terry A
    201 - So by "vinyl," you mean an actual LP, right?

    Greg Brock's jargon -- the silliness, the yoda, etc. -- leaves me wondering these days. And if you replace "vinyl" with "marijuana" or "pornography" or whatever in your sentences above, it still makes sense. Grammatically, that is.

    2007-11-19 13:59:18
    206.   Ken Noe
    202 Elton John, Honky Chateau, 1973, Crossroads Mall, Roanoke, VA. I was wearing my Dodger cap and somebody made fun of it. That and I now forget where I parked my car.
    2007-11-19 14:00:51
    207.   fanerman
    205 Haha. But vinyl could refer to LP's, EP's, 45's, etc. right? LP's refer to a specific size and type. I'm no expert.
    2007-11-19 14:03:10
    208.   Kevin Lewis
    198

    My wife bought me a record player back when we were dating, but it was one of those Restoration Hardware ones without the capability of hooking it up to my sound system. It sits in the storage space under the stairs.

    2007-11-19 14:05:02
    209.   Kevin Lewis
    Come to think of it, I should sell that on Craigslist
    2007-11-19 14:08:26
    210.   MC Safety
    202 My favorite record as of late is The Beach Boys Today! "Girl Dont Tell Me Your Right" is my favorite Beach Boys tune as well. That album inspired alot of Shins stuff as well.
    2007-11-19 14:09:28
    211.   bhsportsguy
    209 Is that the one that converts vinyl to MP3 formats? Restoration Hardware is selling online for $199.00
    2007-11-19 14:11:29
    212.   Sam DC
    Jackson Browne, Running on Empty.
    2007-11-19 14:11:29
    213.   Bob Timmermann
    I tried converting a vinyl record to mp3 and all I got the necessary equipment (which isn't all that much).

    It took me four hours to convert one EP.

    I gave up after that.

    I will give my life over to easier pursuits, such as trying to make an apple pie for Thanksgiving.

    2007-11-19 14:12:38
    214.   LogikReader
    203

    I know what it is! I'll bet you it's the Technics SL-1200. A legend all by itself.

    http://tinyurl.com/27q4m8

    2007-11-19 14:12:41
    215.   MC Safety
    205 Well 45's and early 10 inch I believe arent considered LP's as those are 12 inch's no? I could be totally wrong, I dont know why I chose that term.
    2007-11-19 14:14:29
    216.   Kevin Lewis
    209

    Nope, just a basic record player with built in speakers

    2007-11-19 14:14:44
    217.   Daniel Zappala
    Funny, I've been thinking about turntables for ripping my LPs lately too. I've been looking at this USB turntable:

    http://tinyurl.com/ynq3ve

    but this one makes the case for a better quality turntable:

    http://tinyurl.com/yspdg9

    2007-11-19 14:16:46
    218.   bhsportsguy
    First 45, Crocodile Rock by Elton John, for those from LA and surrounding areas, I bought it at White Front. As I look back, a strange name for a store but then there was also Newberry's where I could by tadpoles (I thought that was so neat), Clark Drugs and Food King.
    2007-11-19 14:16:59
    219.   Linkmeister
    205 Brief dicussion of distinction between EP and LP:

    http://xrl.us/bbf4z

    (If you do a search for "short url" via Google you get lots of choices which do what tinyurl does. That one's from something called Metamark.)

    2007-11-19 14:18:31
    220.   Sam DC
    I recently made a joke at work about something being "B-side material." Then I had to explain to the jokee (who had never heard the term) what a "B side" was and why my joke was so funny.

    She was 23.

    I was cranky the rest of the day.

    2007-11-19 14:19:44
    221.   Linkmeister
    Discussion of 45, 33 1/3, 78rpm records:

    http://xrl.us/bbf45

    2007-11-19 14:20:22
    222.   fanerman
    220 I'm 22 and I know what a B-Side is. The term is still used with singles today, even when referred to CD's. But I guess kids don't normally buy CD's anymore.
    2007-11-19 14:20:41
    223.   bhsportsguy
    220 I went to Disneyland yesterday with some friends and their kids, I thought about using E-ticket to explain why certain rides were so crowded but there is no way to explain the concept of tickets for individual rides to anyone under 30, much less under 10.
    2007-11-19 14:23:20
    224.   Xeifrank
    Record player thoughts? I thought I'd seen it all!!! :)
    vr, Xei
    2007-11-19 14:23:51
    225.   Sam DC
    222 Yes but, as your sidebar quote shows, you are an informed and distinguished observer of the History of Science and Technology.
    2007-11-19 14:23:51
    226.   El Lay Dave
    214 Yes, exactly. The MK-2 specifically.
    2007-11-19 14:26:20
    227.   bhsportsguy
    Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields Forever or God Only Knows/Wouldn't Be Nice as the best singles ever released?

    The Beatles probably have more hit "singles" because (and correct me if I am wrong) some of their songs were only released as singles and not put on albums.

    2007-11-19 14:26:25
    228.   Daniel Zappala
    First album I got was Murmur, by REM, 1984. I like to think it was the one time I was cool, since I was way ahead of the curve on them.
    2007-11-19 14:27:24
    229.   Sam DC
    224 LOL.
    2007-11-19 14:27:51
    230.   El Lay Dave
    214 Yes, specifically the MK-2.

    First album was Elton John's "Don't Shoot Me, I'm Only the Piano Player", featuring 218 's first 45.

    2007-11-19 14:27:59
    231.   Andrew Shimmin
    Four hours to rip an EP? Were you encrypting highly classified documents into the files? Were you defragmenting the hard drive while ripping?
    2007-11-19 14:28:24
    232.   fanerman
    225 Thanks! That made my day.

    227 Penny Lane/Strawberry Fields was a double-A side single.

    2007-11-19 14:28:31
    233.   bhsportsguy
    229 If I recall my stories correct, how was that whiskey or scotch that you opened the other night?
    2007-11-19 14:29:06
    234.   Bob Timmermann
    231
    I tried to do it without reading the instructions.
    2007-11-19 14:29:36
    235.   El Lay Dave
    227 Add Hey Jude/Revolution to the candidates.
    2007-11-19 14:29:37
    236.   Sam DC
    233 It was Cognac and it was very, very wow.
    2007-11-19 14:30:40
    237.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
    220
    Is B-side material good or bad? Some of my favorite songs were b-sides, and never made it to an album (Yellow Ledbetter, Hey Hey What Can I Do, come to mind).
    2007-11-19 14:30:58
    238.   bhsportsguy
    232 Corrected by a 22 year old. ;), yes I knew that and I should have noted that, the Beach Boys single alternated the songs on different sides in the US and the UK.

    I like Penny Lane more than Strawberry Fields but that is because I am such a happy person.

    2007-11-19 14:32:10
    239.   El Lay Dave
    220 Sounding like a broken record and sounding like a defective digital audio file don't have the same connotation either. :(
    2007-11-19 14:33:03
    240.   bhsportsguy
    236 Nice.

    237 I don't think necessarily they are bad songs, often I think it was just what otner songs were on the album that they never thought could be released as a single.

    2007-11-19 14:34:13
    241.   Sam DC
    Honky Tonk Woman was the A side to Can't Always Get What You Want's B side.

    Take that for what it's worth.

    (I don't know if For What It's Worth was an A side or a B side.)

    2007-11-19 14:36:07
    242.   CajunDodger
    241
    U2 had a greatest hits album set entitled "The B-Sides"
    2007-11-19 14:36:41
    243.   Linkmeister
    My first album purchase might have been one of Bill Cosby's comedy records.

    What was the last vinyl album you bought?

    I picked up the original Crosby Stills and Nash album last week (after the new turntable buy) and regretted it, since it skipped in a couple of spots. Used CDs are a better bet than used vinyl, I conclude, because they don't have the same potential for wear and tear.

    2007-11-19 14:37:36
    244.   El Lay Dave
    B-side quality varies wildly. Some were other tracks from the album that featured the A-side. Some were outtakes. Some pure filler. Springsteen put out a very listenable box set, "Tracks", that contained a lot of B-sides. It all depends.

    When I first heard "Hey Hey What Can I Do", I thought the woman in question liked sports, beverages and lying.

    2007-11-19 14:37:55
    245.   still bevens
    237 You kinda answered your own question there. But yeah some is great, some is bad, some is terrible. I find myself liking some b-sides more than I should because I went through with the effort of tracking the songs down so they mean more to me. I guess in this digital age tracking down b-sides is really easy, but I used to hit up record stores within a 20 mile radius of where I lived to hunt down japanese import singles, etc.
    2007-11-19 14:38:25
    246.   LogikReader
    223

    My parents taught me that saying.

    ---

    If Ned Colletti could be an LP, what would he be?

    2007-11-19 14:40:10
    247.   El Lay Dave
    241 Wasn't Ruby Tuesday the B-side to Let's Spend the Night Together?
    2007-11-19 14:41:17
    248.   still bevens
    246 That terrible Pat Boone cover album with Metallica songs, etc.

    Was that even released on LP? Ill go back to the drawing board.

    2007-11-19 14:42:01
    249.   Brent Knapp
    237 Pearl Jam is a a rare band that still puts out great b-sides. Ledbetter might be the greatest of all time. How about U or Down?
    2007-11-19 14:42:10
    250.   underdog
    Ken Arneson, if you're out there, I hope this thread makes up for yesterday.
    Show/Hide Comments 251-300
    2007-11-19 14:42:13
    251.   El Lay Dave
    242 Also quite listenable. Prince could put out a reasonable B-side collection.
    2007-11-19 14:46:01
    252.   bhsportsguy
    The B-sides to Earth Wind and Fire singles were usually my favorite songs on their albums.
    2007-11-19 14:46:49
    253.   MC Safety
    246- Easy, Ned Coletti couldbe one of those mediocre neglected Chicago records you see at every place that sells records. I swear they printed more Chicago records than any other band. Or maybe its just because nobody likes Chicago, although Transit Authority is pretty good.
    2007-11-19 14:48:11
    254.   The Blue Legend
    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7466954

    Ken Rosenthal says right now the Dodgers are the leading candidates to get Cabrera. Rumors keep changing hourly.

    2007-11-19 14:48:29
    255.   El Lay Dave
    243 I believe the last vinyl albums I bought were used copies of Fleetwood Mac's "Black Magic Woman" (1971 repackage) and Traffic's "Low Spark of High Heeled Boys", at a neighbor's garage sale.
    2007-11-19 14:48:39
    256.   bhsportsguy
    253 Just letting you know, Greg Brock, huge Chicago fan.

    Be forewarned.

    2007-11-19 14:48:40
    257.   LogikReader
    Question: Do you qualify songs from other albums (or even the same album) as B-sides on a single?

    My guess is no. To me, a B-Side is a song that doesn't land on any album and can only be found on said single (not including best-of's). "Spirits in the Material World" (by the Police) had an interesting instrumental for a B-side.

    2007-11-19 14:50:32
    258.   LogikReader
    253

    Btw, what are they up to now? Chicago 58?

    2007-11-19 14:51:15
    259.   D4P
    The Marlins first showed heavy interest in Kemp last spring, but at that time the Dodgers deemed him untouchable. However, the availability of Cabrera — combined with questions about Kemp's attitude — could lead the Dodgers to alter their stance.
    2007-11-19 14:52:04
    260.   bhsportsguy
    254 Here't the problem with that article, Rosenthal's premise that failure to get Cabrera would be another emabarassment for the Dodgers especially if the Angels get him.

    Somehow, I don't see that as reporting, its more opinion with a lot of unsourced "information" being put in as filler.

    2007-11-19 14:52:04
    261.   silverwidow
    254 It sounds like the Marlins have "lowered" their demands: It's now Kemp/LaRoche/Kershaw

    Kershaw is the deal breaker for me.

    2007-11-19 14:53:02
    262.   silverwidow
    I fear something might go down soon.
    2007-11-19 14:53:26
    263.   Linkmeister
    255 My goodness, I bought that Traffic album on cassette!
    2007-11-19 14:53:48
    264.   El Lay Dave
    260 Rosenthal's "story" contains about zero information. Somehow, I am not surprised.
    2007-11-19 14:54:06
    265.   The Blue Legend
    I think Ned is going to pull the trigger and then throw a bunch of money to Rowand.
    2007-11-19 14:55:27
    266.   old dodger fan
    If we start a rumor here will that make it come true?

    A voice in my head said Cabrera for LaRoche and Proctor. Send it to at least 10 people or something terrible will happen.

    2007-11-19 14:55:50
    267.   silverwidow
    Furcal
    Pierre
    Cabrera
    Kent
    Rowand
    Martin
    Ethier
    Nomar
    2007-11-19 14:55:50
    268.   El Lay Dave
    263 Then you missed out on the custom-cut cover package (the lopped-off corners).
    2007-11-19 14:55:55
    269.   D4P
    If Rule 8 didn't exist, I would express frustration that there are "questions about" Kemp's attitude but not about Kent's.
    2007-11-19 14:56:24
    270.   El Lay Dave
    265 Then he would be pointing at his own foot.
    2007-11-19 14:56:47
    271.   silverwidow
    267 Scratch Nomar and insert Loney.
    2007-11-19 14:57:43
    272.   El Lay Dave
    253 I also like Chicago, at least until Peter Cetera and David Foster met each other.
    2007-11-19 14:58:32
    273.   MC Safety
    256 I would have never guessed. My favorite Chicago song is "Beginnings". They have some great tunes, I am definitely a fan of Chicago.
    2007-11-19 14:58:37
    274.   LogikReader
    Again, I'll invoke the commandments of "how to avoid being snagged by the rumor mill." But in theory:

    This proposed trade, by the same writer who insisted we'd trade for Texiera, breaks down like this to me.

    Miguel Cabrera for Kemp and LaRoche with Kershaw in between.

    In a way, I kind of like it. However, this is contingent on whether Cabrera can get it together at the gym. In another way, it's not as cool as having those home grown options instead.

    Seriously, what is the incentive for trading Kemp? I remember, in 2001, Sheffield trade rumors ran rampant, but he stayed and put up some big numbers that year. LaRoche is not as big a deal since Cabrera comes our way.

    Again, just in theory. I won't believe it until I see it.

    2007-11-19 14:59:33
    275.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
    What makes this site different from the comment sections on SI, ESPN, FOXSports, etc.?

    The comment sections following most articles are barely readable, and always end with "GO TEAM!!!"

    I'd be curious to see how the demographics of this site's users compare to those of other sites'.

    2007-11-19 15:00:36
    276.   The Blue Legend
    We should just buy out Nomar so we don't have to worry about him during the season. Remember how he sulked in boston in 04? We don't need that in our clubhouse in 08.
    2007-11-19 15:00:40
    277.   CajunDodger
    267
    Do you have Nomar playing 1st?

    I would read it to be

    Furcal
    Pierre
    Cabrera
    Kent
    Rowand
    Loney
    Martin
    Ethier

    2007-11-19 15:00:52
    278.   LogikReader
    272

    That's me as well. Although I think Terry Kath's death and Foster's presence nearly coincided with one another. I'd consider that a "jump the shark" moment.

    2007-11-19 15:01:47
    279.   CajunDodger
    271
    Sorry...posted late.
    2007-11-19 15:02:25
    280.   Lexinthedena
    I really hope the Angels get Cabrera....in my humble opinion, Kemp is going to put up very similar numbers to Miguel "mas lento con las arepas" Cabrera....plus speed and D.....

    and it might force Frankletti's hand in going hard after Andruw.....and maybe Pierre will still be dealt!

    I also think that San Fran is gonna make a hard run at Tejada, and that they will sign Rowand if Ned doesn't...

    You heard it hear first (I think)

    2007-11-19 15:03:42
    281.   CajunDodger
    In theory, if the Dodgers get Cabrera, what will the Angels do for offense? I thought them trading Cabrera was a sign that they are close to a deal with the Marlins, but if the Dodgers get Miggy, that will be an absolutely brutal offense in Anaheim next year.
    2007-11-19 15:06:24
    282.   The Blue Legend
    I still honestly think The Angels will get M. Cabrera. Ned will say he made several offers to the Marlins. Then we'll just get rowand and trade some guys for some middle of the road pitcher. Come on guys we should be used to not getting the big names.
    2007-11-19 15:06:43
    283.   still bevens
    264 The kicker is the first paragraph. Seems like rank speculation to me. "Since x happened, y is clearly now the case."
    2007-11-19 15:09:46
    284.   regfairfield
    274 Why, the man can put up a 1.000 OPS as a fat toad. Who cares what he looks like if he can rake.

    281 Same thing they do every other year. Nothing. It seems to work out for them most of the time.

    2007-11-19 15:11:33
    285.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
    261
    I think I would make that trade. If we could also include Pierre in exchange for getting Ross back, then I'd do it in a heartbeat.
    2007-11-19 15:11:40
    286.   fanerman
    284 We're not trying to sell jeans?
    2007-11-19 15:11:51
    287.   LogikReader
    282

    Correction (a la Ted Mosby):

    We get the big names, but usually in the twighlight (or no light) of their career. See Nomar, Gonzo, R. Hernandez, etc.

    2007-11-19 15:14:00
    288.   CajunDodger
    283
    Agreed that the article could be crap, but unless something completely falls from the sky to the Angels, Miggy is the last impact bat other than Tejada on the market. Maybe Tejada was the target all along and they were just baiting the Dodgers into a prospect bidding war.

    If I took out all the maybes and inserted a phrase like "sources close to the Angels say", then I could be a baseball rumormonger.

    2007-11-19 15:16:52
    289.   CajunDodger
    How do you define "in the lead" anyway? Is there a dry erase board in Benifest's office that has

    1. Dodgers
    2. Angels

    Did Rosenthal see said board?

    2007-11-19 15:25:30
    290.   Ken Noe
    "Major league sources" equals what? Not anyone in the LA front offices.
    2007-11-19 15:26:42
    291.   Curtis Lowe
    Swap Ethier for Kemp and I make that trade on the premise that Kershaw should be considered the centerpiece.
    2007-11-19 15:28:47
    292.   dsfan
    274--

    The weight concerns relate to defense, not hitting. Cabrera is a borderline liability defensively. If he continues to gain weight, his best position will be DH.

    Fair to say, there's a practical impact his fatness has on his defense and baserunning, and probably his durability. It's a shame, because he has the talent to be a good 3B, but not when he's bloated like this. Remember, when Cabrera signed, people were saying he might be able to play some SS. He's a frustrating player, because his bat might Hall of Fame-caliber, his latent athleticism is more than suitable for 3B, but his defense and baserunning are lackadaisacal and his work habits are quesitionable.

    His immense weight gain calls into question his work ethic and lifestyle. It's not easy to gain 30 pounds in your early 20s, especially when you're playing baseball every day, often in tropical heat. How is he gaining that much weight? Does he have a heavy liguid diet up until 2 a.m.? These are questions a smart club needs to take into account. Do the Dodgers have the people in place to create a good environment for him?

    If I'm an AL club, he's a bit more attractive, because you can make him a DH if his defense continues to decline.

    I think the Dodgers should strike a hard bargain. If the Angels outbid them for Cabrera, fine. Let Nomar/LaRoche take over at 3B, throw a ton of short-term money at Andruw and get creative in adding to the pitching staff, then call it an offseason.

    2007-11-19 15:28:55
    293.   Bob Timmermann
    There is a white board in Larry Beinfest's office, but all keeps track of is the total number of Marlins fans.

    Interestingly, that number is the same as the number of survivors on President Roslin's white board in "Battlestar: Galactica."

    2007-11-19 15:29:28
    294.   underdog
    Wasn't Ken Rosenthal the guy who confused the Diamondbacks playoff opponents when dissing them from the sidelines during NL championship series? Isn't he also wrong about almost everything else? Doesn't he work for Fox? Sorry, I'm filing that in the "la la la not listening" folder until I hear from the Dodgers.
    2007-11-19 15:32:36
    295.   still bevens
    292 I remember Ozzie Guillen blamed Cabrera's weight problem on his Venezuelan-ness and his wife's cooking.
    2007-11-19 15:32:43
    296.   bhsportsguy
    291 I can see where the deal could come down to Kershaw being the hold up. Kemp and LaRoche for Cabrera for next year, depending on who else plays outfield could be the difrerence in winning a playoff spot.

    And I don't see how the Marlins make the deal without getting Kemp.

    But its that third player, like Nate said weeks ago, if Elbert were healthy, than I could see him being the other player and frankly, though if healthy he would be among the the top 10 pitching prospects, Kershaw is already ahead of him.

    2007-11-19 15:34:18
    297.   fanerman
    294 If Ken Rosenthal starts talking on a Fox broadcast, I immediately mute the TV or change the channel. My roommate gets a little annoyed.
    2007-11-19 15:36:47
    298.   dsfan
    Rosenthal implies that the Dodgers' offense will stink without Cabrera, because it stunk last year.

    Well, let's say the Dodgers sign Andruw Jones. That's a huge, huge improvement in CF power production with a comparable or better OBP.

    Reasonable to expect Furcal to bounce back because he should be healthier.

    Maybe LaRoche/Nomar produce more than last year's 3B-men did.

    Factoring a full year of Kemp, one corner OF spot should be more productive than it was last year.

    It's not crazy to think that offense could be middle-of-the-pack in the NL, and Jones would help the defense.

    2007-11-19 15:36:52
    299.   D4P
    I think it's generally accepted around here that Ned fears for his job security, and is thus more likely than normal to adopt a short-sighted "win now" approach.

    If I'm McCourt, I take a longer-term view and don't let Ned sacrifice the future for the sake of his own job security. I either make it clear to Ned (if such is the case) that his job is not in jeopardy, or I simply veto any myopic trade I don't like.

    2007-11-19 15:37:59
    300.   goofus
    61 Linkmeister, I tried to answer this an hour or so ago but Jon's server went out. That happens too often, I hope Santa brings him a new one... Sports books and bookies give points to stimulate betting on a team. They get their profit by taking a percentage of what is bet, 15% to 20%. So they want the same amount of money bet on Team A as on Team B. Let's take your team Hawaii as an example. Apparently most people think they will win but not by much. So the book gives the other team 4 points so more people will bet on the other team. If a lot of people bet on Hawaii and they won, then the book would lose a lot of money. That is a risk they don't want to take, they are quite content to have the money even on booth sides and they take their percentage. So the points quoted doesn't mean they see the game that way, the points are just incentives to get the same amount bet on both sides.
    Show/Hide Comments 301-350
    2007-11-19 15:39:17
    301.   fiddlestick
    Rosenthal reminds me a lot of Leo Getz from the Lethal Weapon movies. Diminutive, talks way too much without actually saying anything, and a hanger-on desperate for approval from people who do his job better than him.
    2007-11-19 15:42:41
    302.   dzzrtRatt
    210 That's a funny mishearing. The song is actually called "Girl Don't Tell Me You'll Write." The singer is anticipating that his school-year girlfriend will forget all about him in the summer.

    246 If Ned Colletti could be an LP, I think he'd be "Frampton Comes Alive." Or maybe the follow-up, "I'm In You."

    254 This piece is a real thumbsucker. And I wonder if Rosenthal spoke to his "major league sources" before or after the Angels traded for a pretty good pitcher, meaning they could part with Adenhart or Santana more easily.

    I could get a big pie in the face for saying this, but I don't think Colletti wants to trade Kemp. Not saying he won't do it, but I think his public comments this week were, in effect, "Larry, you said you wanted prospects. We have lots of good prospects; go ahead and look 'em over. But Kemp isn't a prospect."

    2007-11-19 15:44:54
    303.   Jon Weisman
    300 - Is anyone else having this problem? I notice the server going out occasionally, but not enough for it to be an issue.
    2007-11-19 15:49:45
    304.   Benaiah
    300 - No. I have been here off and on all day with no problems. It certainly isn't a frequent issue.
    2007-11-19 15:50:35
    305.   Dodgers49
    Here's the part that always gets me:

    >> Cabrera is two years away from free agency, Kemp five years away. But the difference would not necessarily deter the Dodgers, who possess the resources to sign Cabrera long-term. <<

    Of course they have the resources. They also had the resources to sign A-Rod for that matter. Having the resources to sign someone and actually signing them is not the same thing. If Miggy decides in two years that he want to let the market dictate his worth there is no guarantee that the Dodgers will be the winner. I still would not give up Matt Kemp without an extension and I certainly would not give up both Kemp and Kershaw without one.

    2007-11-19 15:54:19
    306.   bhsportsguy
    303 not me.

    299 I don't accept that as a premise. And McCourt should not be telling him not to make trades just because it could involve some younger players.

    2007-11-19 15:54:34
    307.   CajunDodger
    303
    Not me. Everything seems fine.
    2007-11-19 15:56:18
    308.   Benaiah
    305 - Why in the world would Caberra sign an extension though? He has no loyalty to the Dodgers and will make huge amounts of money on the open market. Even worse, a long term contract might remove the only incentive he has to put down the fork.

    The Dodgers didn't have a good offense last year, despite being well above average at a couple of positions and at least average at a few others, I wonder why? Maybe it is because they were horrible at SS, CF and either 1B/3B (where ever Nomar was) and even worse they gave the lion's share of the at bats to those positions. Fix the problems rather than trade the players that were good last year.

    2007-11-19 15:57:54
    309.   D4P
    And McCourt should not be telling him not to make trades just because it could involve some younger players

    McCourt should be telling him not to make trades that involve younger players if McCourt is taking a longer-term view and considers those young players to be integral to a longer-term plan.

    In other words, if Colletti wants to get rid of young players in order to "win now", and McCourt doesn't share that philosophy, he doesn't have to allow Ned to pursue it.

    In still other words, McCourt has the last word, such that any "win now" panic attack trade that Ned pursues still has to get approval from McCourt.

    2007-11-19 15:58:30
    310.   MC Safety
    302 Correct. That is such a good song.
    2007-11-19 16:01:02
    311.   dzzrtRatt
    Colletti's surest route to job security is for Torre & co. to make men out of our boys, and present the McCourts with a popular, mostly homegrown team that competes for the title in 2008 and looks to keep improving. That was the Campanis formula, and he GM'd for almost 20 years (and basically fired himself.) He inherited most of the core of the 70s team (although he had been a Dodger exec before being promoted) just as Ned will have inherited most of the team now. Smart executives in any field will tell you sometimes the bravest and best decision is to do nothing.

    His surest route to job insecurity is to stock the team with more of the Grade B and/or slightly over the hill veterans, and finish near .500 again. It doesn't help him if he trades Kemp, LaRoche, Ethier or someone else in the prospect/young category and they flourish elsewhere.

    2007-11-19 16:07:07
    312.   CajunDodger
    311
    It almost seems like a foregone conclusion that we will be getting an outfielder in the FA derby, so Ethier/Young will either compete for playing time with Pierre or he will be traded. If that is the worst that happens, I will be nice and happy.
    2007-11-19 16:12:58
    313.   Benaiah
    308 - To continue, here is the Dodgers line up with their Bill James projections next year.

    C - Martin .292/.379/.456/.835, 17 HR
    1B - Loney .302/.359/.465/.823, 14 HR
    2B - Kent .290/.368/.486/.854, 22 HR
    SS - Furcal .286/.352/.403/.755, 11 HR
    3B - Laroche .275/.367/.458/.825, 19 HR
    LF - Kemp .322/.365/.508/.873, 16 HR
    RF - Ethier .304/.371/.477/.848, 16 HR
    CF - Pierre .298/.343/.361/.703, 1 HR

    Replace Pierre with Andruw Jones (.253/.343/.491/.834 34 HR) and you have a fine offense, balanced if not outstanding at any one position.

    2007-11-19 16:12:59
    314.   Dodgers49
    288 Tejada was the target all along

    My first thought when I saw the Angels had traded their shortstop was that they were going after Tejada, a player who doesn't want to move to 3rd base. I guess we'll find out within the next few days.

    2007-11-19 16:13:12
    315.   dzzrtRatt
    Ned can bring in any FA outfielder he wants if the net result is that outfielder replaces Pierre on the roster. I might even take back Luis Gonzalez. Or J.D. Drew. I'm certainly okay with Aaron Rowand coming in and taking away all Pierre's playing time. Jones or Hunter, even better. So long as Kemp is on his left and Ethier on his right and Pierre is somewhere else.
    2007-11-19 16:16:39
    316.   CajunDodger
    313
    James is certainly much smarter than I, but Kemp with a .508 SLG and only 16 HR doesn't seem to work. If he truly does slug that number, I think he will have closer to 25 HR and a lower batting average.
    2007-11-19 16:17:43
    317.   bigcpa
    It seems like we're being asked for LaRoche/Kemp/Kershaw just because FLA wants 3 players. It just so happens that our 3 players are a 9 and two 10's. Ned can take Kemp out and still top anyone's offer. If they'll throw in Scott Olsen I'll throw in Ethier.
    2007-11-19 16:20:43
    318.   Daniel Zappala
    314 The Angels have flirted with Tejada for a while, but I don't see the sense him going after him now. I don't think he's the big bat they're after. I strongly suspect they're trying for Cabrera.
    2007-11-19 16:21:41
    319.   El Lay Dave
    If Frank McCourt truly believes that he has "stewardship" of the Dodgers, as he stated to some of us at DT day at the stadium, then his message to Colletti should be "win now, but win later too", which should at least give Ned some pause when he considers how many young players he can afford to trade.
    2007-11-19 16:24:56
    320.   bhsportsguy
    As regfairfield has said, Miguel Cabrera is probably the best offensive talent in the NL next to Albert Pujols, as good as LaRoche could be and as big a prospect that Kershaw is, if I was Florida's GM, I would not make the deal without Kemp. I need someone to showcase on Opening Day and Kemp would be that guy.
    2007-11-19 16:25:03
    321.   CajunDodger
    317
    If someone wants a high-ceiling throw-in from the Dodgers, I am surrised that Elbert is not getting much consideration. If Kemp is the centerpiece, then throwing in LaRoche and Elbert seems more reasonable.
    2007-11-19 16:25:20
    322.   Xeifrank
    303. I'm seeing something wierd. Everytime I hit refresh, I get a post about LPs and 45s. Almost as if the Toaster needs it's cache cleared or something. Perhaps Ken can save us. I don't think most of the baseball related posts are making it through. :)
    vr, Xei
    2007-11-19 16:27:08
    323.   bhsportsguy
    322 All I see is a rehash of the Cabrera deal over and over again so I'm with you Xei. :)
    2007-11-19 16:28:37
    324.   Linkmeister
    322 "Almost as if the Toaster needs it's cache cleared"

    Discleaner, stat!

    2007-11-19 16:37:31
    325.   Daniel Zappala
    321 How many prospects did the Marlins get for both Beckett (front-line starting pitcher) and Lowell (above-average 3B)?
    2007-11-19 16:39:33
    326.   still bevens
    325 From Beckett's BR page.

    Traded by the Florida Marlins with Mike Lowell and Guillermo Mota to the Boston Red Sox for Hanley Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez, Harvey Garcia, and Jesus Delgado (minors).

    2007-11-19 16:42:40
    327.   Daniel Zappala
    326 Yes, that's my point. I don't think it's reasonable to ask for Kemp, LaRoche, and Kershaw, even for Cabrera.
    2007-11-19 16:45:28
    328.   bhsportsguy
    327 I think that is the hangup, again, by now for the Marlins to drop either Kemp or Kershaw (LaRoche is definitely in the deal), it would seem like such a letdown, I don't think for PR purposes they would do the deal.
    2007-11-19 16:45:37
    329.   bigcpa
    Yabbut if Kemp is Hanley then James McDonald is Anibal. No idea who replaces Harvey and Jesus.
    2007-11-19 16:48:31
    330.   Lexinthedena
    I'm sure Bill James knows a lot...but I could see Kemp having 16 hr's by the All-Star Break....

    Watching Kemp mature into a super star elsewhere would be very painful.....

    2007-11-19 16:49:04
    331.   silverwidow
    Tim Brown at Yahoo Sports reported that the Dodgers have discussed the parameters of a Bedard trade. The centerpiece, of course, is Kemp.
    2007-11-19 16:49:21
    332.   CajunDodger
    328
    They have never seemed too worried about PR in the past.
    2007-11-19 16:52:17
    333.   Lexinthedena
    331- Oh god....I don't care how good Bedard is...he had arm problems and was shut down!....

    I wish Ned was trustworthy in his baseball smarts....

    2007-11-19 16:54:13
    334.   silverwidow
    333 I believe he was shut down due to an oblique injury (which isn't a long term issue).

    His strikeout numbers are incredible, but I wouldn't do it.

    2007-11-19 16:56:10
    335.   CajunDodger
    334
    I might not mind if Kemp was the only player, but he will inevitably be part of a package.
    2007-11-19 16:56:57
    336.   Lexinthedena
    334- Your right....I guess I still don't trust pitchers....The truth is I don't think I would trade kemp for anyone...
    2007-11-19 16:58:27
    337.   Jacob L
    Years ago, I used to write for Dodger fan website. This was in the days before blogs. It was the "post an article, go to a separate message board to discuss it" model. It was also, unfortunately, in the days before I had any clue what I was talking about. I don't claim to know much now, but I'm pretty confident of improvement.

    In my earlier incarnation as a fan, and internet pontificator, if you'll allow me that, I used to buy in to, as well as produce, a lot of talk about how the Dodgers needed an owner who saw himself as a steward. How Dodger fans deserved a winner. How the Dodgers should both plan for the future and field a contender today.

    I think I recognize today that those types of comments are, at best, beside the point. Mind you, during the Newscorp era, it was totally legitimate to ponder the idea that Dodger ownership was not pure of intent, that the Dodgers were merely a pawn in their larger business workings. The more paranoid among us could, I suppose, make that same argument for the current ownership.

    Me, however, I don't doubt that McCourt views himself as a "steward," that he has both the short and long term interests of the team at heart, etc. etc. I'm even willing to extend that presumption to his baseball staff.

    Anybody who's still reading this post will probably know what the punchline is. I think the McCourts and Coletti are fine at goal setting (win now, win in the future, etc). I have serious doubts about their ability to craft and execute a plan that achieves those goals. I don't think they know what pieces contribute to winning now or winning in the future, and I don't think they grasp the relative value of those pieces in a dynamic marketplace. If that's a bit harsh, let me put it this way - their grasp of these concepts doesn't put them at an advantage over their competitors.

    I'm not sure what any of this has to do with current events. A Cabrera trade may or may not be a good deal, depending on how it goes down. I just don't think that McCourt's or Coletti's intentions are the story.

    2007-11-19 17:00:11
    338.   the2pin
    From 313

    C - Martin .292/.379/.456/.835, 17 HR
    1B - Loney .302/.359/.465/.823, 14 HR
    2B - Kent .290/.368/.486/.854, 22 HR
    SS - Furcal .286/.352/.403/.755, 11 HR
    3B - Laroche .275/.367/.458/.825, 19 HR
    LF - Kemp .322/.365/.508/.873, 16 HR
    RF - Ethier .304/.371/.477/.848, 16 HR
    CF - Pierre .298/.343/.361/.703, 1 HR

    I agree with this assessment. This is a very solid and inexpensive team. My problem with this team is that it lacks any star power, with the possible exception of Matt Kemp and his 16 HRs.

    Neither Loney nor Ethier is going to be a star. They are solid, but replacable. Minor league pitchers -- remember Edwin Jackson? -- are always a risk.

    If the Dodgers don't make a move and the young players develop, the team is above average. Cabrera's bat or Johan's arm make them an automatic contender.

    As we have seen, star players are almost always resigned. Miguel Cabrera -- maybe Johan Santana -- is the rare exception to the rule.

    What is the point of cutting costs with young players if your organization doesn't have the balls the sign All-Star talent on the rare occasion it becomes available?

    2007-11-19 17:01:40
    339.   fanerman
    The fan in me wants to just see what someone like Kemp can do. Like Jon said, he's the most exciting player we've had in a long time. Of course there's the homegrown/hometown player bias, but the potential and ability is there. Maybe not as high as someone like Miggy, but it's there.
    2007-11-19 17:01:55
    340.   MJW101
    If the Angels do acquire Tejada then their interest in Cabrera should disappear since they would not have goods to trade.

    If that is the case then the LADs become the only serious suitor for Cabrera since the NYY and BoSox have already satisfied their 3B requirements.

    With that in mind Ned should offer Elbert, Ethier, Abreu, Orenduff, DeJesus and DeWitt for Cabrera.

    We can afford to lose Elbert and Orenduff with Kershaw and McDonald coming along. We can afford to lose Abreu, DeJesus and DeWitt with LaRoche and Hu in the wings (assuming Cabrera plays LF because of his defensive deficiencies at 3B).

    The Marlins will have to reduce their demands or pay & play Cabrera then let him become a FA.

    2007-11-19 17:01:59
    341.   CajunDodger
    336
    The scary thing is that Bedard is a power lefty...similar to another Dodger whose name rhymes with Shmershaw. If the Bedard trade goes down, does that make Kershaw a trade chit?
    2007-11-19 17:03:14
    342.   silverwidow
    Neither Loney nor Ethier is going to be a star.

    Loney will certainly be a star. His major league numbers at his age bear that out.

    2007-11-19 17:04:02
    343.   bhsportsguy
    I think it just bears repeating again and again, if the Dodgers are involved in any deal, writers and the other 29 GMs who probably don't obsess about our players are going to use the names that they know.

    So a sample of the source could be, reporter to source, Orioles offering up Bedard huh, source says yes, reporter, Dodgers involved in any prelim discussions, source, yes, who do they want, Kemp?, source says yes.

    Its not as if the reporter or the source can break down the Dodger minor league system also Matt Kemp is a safe pickup from the other team's perspective because he has already arrived and been successful. James McDonald, Chin Ling Hu, Jonathan Meloan, have good resumes but can they make it to the next level.

    2007-11-19 17:06:35
    344.   Jon Weisman
    New post up top.
    2007-11-19 17:06:40
    345.   Lexinthedena
    340- No way the Marlins do that...they will go into the season with Cabrera, and either trade him at the deadline, or wait till next year and do this thing all over again....If the Angels get a bat other than Tejada, the Marlins are still going to ask for Kemp, LaRoche and Kershaw....the Nerve!
    2007-11-19 17:11:04
    346.   bhsportsguy
    337 I agree but I don't think they are the only ones, few teams in any professional sports can carry out that plan unless you have a lot of money like the Yankees but that is no guarantee either.

    Now, like your mom always said, just because the neighborhood kids do something, doesn't mean you have to follow but an illustration could be what is going on at Staples right now with the Lakers. No question despite how he did it, Kobe Bryant had a point on how the Lakers front office was going about trying to rebuild. The fact that never went out and said that is what they were doing was a problem but right now, they are looking like some of the younger pieces may finally be reaching their ability to play in the NBA and then you still have Kobe to bring them over the top.

    But most sports teams don't have a plan and certainly not one that is sustainable for a long time. Maybe Boston is putting something together but again they also have a lot of money plus they will have issues with replacing Manny and Ortiz before too long.

    2007-11-19 17:12:25
    347.   the2pin
    342 Sorry, but Loney will not be a star. Above average? Probably. Star? At 1B? Certainly not.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/gracema01.shtml

    2007-11-19 17:22:52
    348.   Daniel Zappala
    337 Very well said. I'm hopeful that Colletti has the help he needs to better evaluate player talent.

    338 Here's where I differ from you as a fan. (1) I have great hope that LaRoche and Kemp can be stars, and that Loney will be a great player. (2) I would much rather watch a young Dodger team like that mature, with some of the players becoming stars, and win many times long term, than import a star, win short term, and lose him after a few years, with little to show for it.

    2007-11-19 17:27:46
    349.   JRSarno
    As bad enough as it would be to lose the potential impact of Kemp in such a trade for Cabrera, Kershaw has to be the ultimate deal breaker. It's simply asking for too much. Needing a huge bat has been an ongoing concern for us, but to lose a pitching prospect of his Kershaw's caliber would be utterly disastrous. Especially in light of the fact that Lowe will be gone soon, and Schmidt has essentially become the reincarnation of Dreifort/Brown. This deal forsakes raw young power coupled with future pitching talent. Ned is sweating right now, I am sure, and I am not confident in his decision-making "abilities."
    2007-11-19 17:44:04
    350.   the2pin
    338 Good reply. Maximum respect. I also hope that Loney and LaRoche will be stars. However, I dont think this is likely that these guys become star players.

    Johan Santana doesn't require a leap of faith. Johan Santana is a dominant player -- the type of guy that can advance you in a playoff series almost by himself.

    2007-11-19 20:38:08
    351.   Scanman33
    Is Matt Kemp the center of a PR hit job?

    It certainly sounds like Kemp's supposed "attitude" is being played up within the local media (where stories of him "moving a trash can" have been lapped up by the Plaschkes of SoCal) and the national media (whenever Kemp's name comes up in trade talk).

    Is this a concerted effort to justify moving him to the fans who want to see more homegrown talent and want the Dodgers to keep and play the younger guys? It really does nothing to deflate his potential value to trade suitors, who would gladly take on any supposed "attitude" issues for the tremendous upside and talent Kemp brings. If he does have an attitude, does it derail a team like the Marlins from winning the 73-75 games they can reasonably be expected to tally this year?

    If/when he is moved, the "Well, he could have been the next Milton Bradley or Raul Mondesi" feeling is supposed to be enough to take the sting out of the deal. Sure, it will be a temporary elixir, as Kemp will go on to blossom elsewhere in 2 to 3 years. But since when were PR moves designed to make people feel good for the long term? Short-term, feel good fixes are the MO of the McCourt regime, so it certainly wouldn't be out of character and it would certainly show the veterans that Colletti desperately wants to attract to L.A. that this organization doesn't allow the young punks to run the show.

    Anyway, it seemed the drumbeat about Matt Kemp's attitude is designed to turn him into an afterthought in any deal the team makes, as if the Dodgers HAVE to include a Kershaw to make a team swallow Kemp. Welcome to San Francisco South folks.

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