Silence. Oh the poor hero, I will play in incredible pain even though the injury will cause me to play below replacement level, because just the sheer fact I'm on the field will inspire my legions to victory.

0 Carl Pavano?

Jon -

Do you know where TMYLM supposedly takes place? (I've read where it's filmed, but can't quite figure out where it's supposed to be. My guess in the midwest somewhere).

BTW: We've started watching "Big Love". It's very good.

I have learned that there are at least two things that bug our esteemed DT author, one is this belief that young players have to prove themselves while veteran players get multiple chances and two, all players and team's medical staffs not being forthcoming about their injuries and status thereof.

Should an injured player play if his injured performance is still better than the expected performance of backups? Does the answer to this question depend upon the situation (e.g. in pennant race, eliminated from playoffs already, etc.)?

257 - I thought it was set in Chicago, but I could be wrong.

4 - That's good, but it's a longer list than that. You guys should be able to fill in more :)

3 If that is a movie, go here:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/tools_data/production_listings/index.jsp

It shows locations, production start dates, etc.

Tony Abreu. Well, it was a moral victory. . . Maybe.

4- Also, the word: meme.

6 You know Jon, DT isn't just about your angsts.

Or is it?

:)

Furcal should have just used HGH .... he would have healed faster ...

(end snark alert)

Furcal should have just used HGH

Maybe he did...

I thought it was set in Chicago

But a suburb, right? We've never seen a big city environment. Carolyn's law firm and May's office seem to be in the "downtown" area, which is relatively small.

I can't find any news on when the second season is supposed to start.

Managers have to take some responsibility here. Since 99% of the Dodger community knew that Furcal was hurt and it was effecting his performance, you would hope a manager might be clued into the same thing.
Just as you might hope a manager might be clued into the fact, the center fielder your playing every single bloody day is not very good and you have other options and helping a lousy player continue a games played in streak is an affront to baseball itself.

I'd-rather-play-poorly-than-make-excuses mentality

this phrase would work just as well if it you had said "i'd-rather-play-poorly-THEN-make-excuses-mentality", because though they might not want to make excuses at the time for not playing, inevitably after playing through the injury, and thus playing poorly, that's what happens. articles like these blaming the injury and using it as an excuse. well, if it wasn't allowing you to play well, WHY DID YOU PLAY?

If your going to cheat you might as well use the stuff that will help you. I'm disapointed in how many Dodgers used HGH instead of steroids. At least Beltre picked the right stuff.

The sad thing is that the usual excuse is that the player "did it for the team". The team would have been better off without you playing. If you really want to do something for the team, rest, let a backup play, and then come back strong a few months later.

Tomorrows headline: Dodger brass confirms, Schmidt's off year attributed to arm trouble

Tomorrows headline: Dodger brass confirms, Schmidt's off year attributed to arm trouble

9 Jon Weisman's outlet for dealing psychologically with the Los Angeles Dodgers and baseball

it kind of IS about dealing with jon's angsts :)

Could someone explain his ankle injury to me. I am not questioning it, I just don't understand it.

For those of you who saw him play regularly how obvious was the injury? Shouldn't the trainers have noticed it and said something to Grady? Was his defense impacted? He still attemted 31 SB's. Perhaps it was injured and began to heal and playing everyday he reinjured it a few times along the way.

Any insights?

12 - Thanks to the strike, nobody knows when almost any scripted TV filming will commence.

20 the story there was that at some point it was allowing him to do some things such as run forwards and laterally, but he was having difficulty putting weight on it, especially while swinging the bat.

at least that's what i think i remember hearing.

I'm not really sure why HGH - when used in a medicinal manner, such as to heal an injury - is banned anyway. When it's used as a shortcut to build bulk and muscle, then yes, that's cheating. But if you can't avail yourself of HGH to get a torn tendon to heal, then you shouldn't be able to undergo Tommy John surgery, either.

I'm not really sure why HGH - when used in a medicinal manner, such as to heal an injury - is banned anyway

Is HGH use that has been prescribed by a doctor banned...?

5

I think the context of Furcal's injury begins to answer your question. In this context I wish he had not played at all until he was healed. He was such a catalyst in 2006 that it would have been tremendous to have him come back to the top of the order in full form. Now, if we are talking a pennant race or the playoffs, than it's a different story.

I wonder if Repko and Furcal hung out at all this year?

20 It wasnt Adrian Beltre noticeable, but it was noticeable.

Grady Little had no business penciling his name into the lineup card, I am so glad that pinhead is gone.

Like I said last year (I hate starting off a sentence like that, sorry), how bad can his ankle have been if he's playing the most demanding field position in baseball? With herky-jerky split second lateral movement required.

Why should we discount that it's an 80% made up excuse for a mediocre-to-poor season?

I think this injury excuse happens alot. Especially in the form of, "oh I didn't want to say anything...". You're a grown MAN, SAY SOMETHING!

It just strikes me as a lot of bologne sometimes. And I'm not buying the wife bit either.

Would it be permissible for Schmidt to use it if he quit using it 6 months (or some period of time) before his first regular season game and it was perscribed by a Dr.?

24 I've yet to hear a single athlete say they were put on an HGH regimen by a doctor. There could be multiple reasons why this is true: HGH is verboten in all circumstances, or maybe doctors have valid health-related reasons not to prescribe it.

I'm just wondering what the deal is.

" '[W]e have never granted a (therapeutic use exemption) for human growth hormone, ever,' said Rob Manfred, MLB's senior vice president for business and labor.

http://tinyurl.com/33zvag

27 You could be right, Furcal certainly didnt look injured that one series agianst the Pads towards the very end. He was running like the second coming of Rickey Henderson. Didnt he have like 4 sb's that one game?

You guys are missing the point from this post. The real question is where is there an 11 story penthouse in La Canada? None that I know of.

32 I know the 5th grade camp I went to was in La Canada. Anyone else go to Camp Hi-Hill?

I for sure dont remember seeing any 11 story penthouses in the forest though.

Oops. Should have read the article first. The penthouse is in the DR.
I'll go back into my corner now and be quiet.

30 Good article. It seems to me that a licensed athletic trainer, in consult with a sports physician, ought to be able to prescribe HGH for therapeutic purposes in a dosage that allows injuries to heal, but does not illegitimately increase muscle mass. MLB could establish a clearinghouse to keep track of exactly what is being prescribed to whom, and could strictly limit the number of medical professionals able to dispense the medication.

I'm not really a licensed sports injury therapist. But I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

No one is going to get past the "the better-to-play-at-50-percent-than-heal, I'd-rather-play-poorly-than-make-excuses mentality".

It is ingrained into sports from a very early age. You hear things like, "Rub some dirt on it." You hear stories of Wally Pipp. You come to believe that you are helping the team by playing hurt because the team needs you.

There is also the fact that pro athletes love what they do (for the most part) and most will choose to play, even when hurt, because it is better than not playing. And then you get stories like Byron Leftwich at Marshall, being carried down the field by his o-linemen; Shilling and the magic bloody sock; Jordan dropping 40 with the flu, and guys figure if these guys can do it, then they should too.

Coaches can't be expected to sit players because, for the most part, they are former players and grew up with the same understanding.

There's also the slippery slope problem. Where do you draw the line on what injuries require the player to go to the DL when he can still play (even if at 50%)? It's one of the reasons that JD Drew got so much flack here in LA (that and his apparent desire to take a walk rather than get a hit).

33
It's probably very close to the Glendale line.

34
Don't you have an errand to run?

La Canada does have some impressive properties.

37
And I didn't read Marty's comment then, so I compounded the error.

I don't have a problem with players, playing through pain while hurt. I only have a problem if they suck when attempting to play through pain while hurt.

I don't see why doctors don't prescribe HGH. I may be mistaken, but I believe Bonds and Biggio, among others, had their elbow armor prescribed by a doctor.

well at least we know why Ned wouldn't let Grady bat Pierre leadoff:

"I don't think any lineup would be productive without the leadoff hitter being able to get on," Dodgers General Manager Ned Colletti said.

Gary Burghoff was a NRI! Did I miss an inside DT joke thread?

Non-Roster Invitees
Rick Asadoorian
Gary Burghoff
Fernando Desgue
Brian Falkenborg
Greg Jones
Mike Koplove
Chan Ho Park
Brian Shackelford
Tanyon Sturtze

41
If baseball players suffered from mental or developmental retardation from a hormone disorder, then I'm all for doctors prescribing HGH. Or maybe acromegaly.

33 Wow, so I guess Camp Hi Hill is only for Long Beach and Catalina kids. That explains why we went with Avalon now.

41. Ok, I'm going to chime in the whole HGH discussion. My mother owns a wellness center that specializes in BHRT (BioIdentical Hormone Replacement Therapy). Basically HGH is prescribed to MANY people who are deficient in either testosterone or estrogen both men and women. It is not dangerous as some have stated. And let me just tell you, by testing your hormone levels, if you're deficient you should have every right to be on HGH. If you aren't then it is cheating. HGH testing is simple. Test your hormones and see if it is at an unusual level and if so, put them on the opposite hormone. I know lots of athletes that come to my mother's wellness center that are in the NFL, Olympics, MLS, and so forth so this isn't a big scandal. It is a true medical condition.

Thanks.

I agree in principle but just about every pro athelete has dreams of being a hero. What's more heroic than gutting it out for your team while you're injured and have no business playing? Practically, these guys probably know they are ineffective playing with whatever injury they have but there seems to be so much to gain in the public eye and with your teammates on the off-chance that you will be remembered as the next Gibson or Schilling.

That is where you need trainers and medical staff to overrule the player (and a manager/coach that will listen).

My oldest brother who survived polio in the 1950's is now undergoing HGH therapy. Evidently polio survivers are getting hit again after the age of 55. His muscle mass took a deep hit and since he's a carpenter he kind of needs his muscles to work.

I apparently was given plenty of HGH by the DNA gods.

Just in case it isn't clear, 47 was regarding the macho attitude, not a player's decision to use HGH.

An article like this seems about as simple as damage-control from the Furcal/Dodgers PR team.

These, "I had a bad year but its only because of injuries"---> after the season, seem nothing more than excuses, especially when the player never goes on the DL.

Tribune CEO steps down.
http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2007/12/fitzsimons_farewell.php#more
I wonder if Sam Zell likes Plaschke?

If Kirk Gibson had struck out against Eckersley, it's not as if I would have held it against anyone for giving it a go.

But to consistently play a subpar player in the regular season, that's another story.

53
This is all because Kerry Strug snubbed you isn't it?

The article mentions that Furcal is playing second base to protect his "shoulder strain" - so he is still playing hurt.

Instead of playing winter ball, why on Earth wouldn't he just give the ankle another three months rest AND rest his apparently hurt shoulder at the same time? Wanna bet we hear about Furcal's ankle and shoulder bothering him during the 2008 season?

When JD Drew was here, the complaints were that he wouldn't play with a hangnail. (Jon was not among the complainers).

Anyway, in the case of Furcal, I still hold the position that he did the right thing and that while the "macho" problem is real, this is not a case of it.

As you said Jon, everyone knew about this. This is not some case of an athlete hiding his injury. Furcal was completely open about the situation and I can recall several times last year when Little said that Furcal was suffering at the plate, but not on the field. The Dodgers made a choice to have an Izturis equivalent play rather than letting Furcal heal.

Should the Dodgers have let Hu play and rested Furcal since they all knew Furcal was not likely to hit well? Probably. But that choice - right or wrong - was made rationally. Furcal's "machoism" had nothing to do with it.

From the last thread:

No defensive metric puts Loney at anything better than slightly above average.

Furcal lead the team in VORP in 2006 by a huge margin, and was behind only the elite shortstops in VORP for the season. Combine this with amazing defense and you have one heck of a player when he's healthy. Maybe Hu and Abreu's peak production will equal Furcal, but there's no way you can just pencil them in for the same numbers. Furcal is not, by any measure just PVL. Players over 25 actually can be useful, believe it or not.

Kerri Strug.

Huh. She's a bureaucrat now. Too bad.

I think several hurt players lie to themselves throughout the course of the season. Furcal probably continued to tell himself, "well I'm in pain, but my swing feels good, my arm feels good and the team needs me". The "good enough" to play mentality is common in athletes, its a manager's job to step in and tell them to take some time off. Furcal technically was good enough to play, he just wasn't good enough to play up to our expectations. It also didn't help that he had that stretch of what 15 hits in 4 games (guessing here), that certainly skewed his and obviously Grady's perception of the injury.

43 -

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/886007.html

53 This was a managerial decision correct?

I dont understand how people were giving Grady the benefit of the doubt before Torre came over. A manager has to be able to spot that and take action if the player is not performing. Grady switched Juan to leadoff like twice and then the story about Furcal being the leadoff hitter came out and that was it.

i dont doubt Furcal wanted to earn his 13 million bucks with a good season, then say "Hey, that was nothing, I was injured the whole time." Instead he flopped, and now he has to resort to asking his wife to vouch for his competitiveness.

56 - That's fair, but I do personally think there's a macho element to it. I think there had to be fear about Furcal resting and not being a gamer, given the fact that he could play.

If McCourt is willing to pony up to have Kerri Strug be the keynote address at next year's DT day, I could maybe spot the team 20 LF appearances for Pierre, before I quit rooting for them.

http://www.theagencyspeakers.com/speakers.php?id=16

Furcal isn't PVL at all. We got him for what should (barring injury) be his peak.

His signing was Ned's only really outstanding move (in fact, one of only a few that I would not call bad). I don't think penciling in Hu is by any means the automatic thing to do. Ned should, in fact, be thinking about a 2-3 year extension on Furcal (though, again, that is not a no-brainer).

55 But if Furcal sat out the first third of the season, who could take his place? Who is available? Who has the skills necessary? Do you know who?

61
Thanks - I guess I could have searched myself but then everyone would not know how lazy I am.

65
Of course he's a proven veteran leader. It doesn't always have to be a bad thing.

68 Proven veteran leader and PVL have different connotations, at least here.

66 A man named Wilson Betemit.

The team was lousy with shortstops, last year. Betemit, Abreu, Martinez, Valdez. Nomar could have slid over to let a real hitter play first.

66 - I was actually referring to the three winter months, but hey, if his recovery period lasts into the season, I know who... and it ain't Horton.

66
Abreu was able and ready to play SS. If you recall he was brought up to play 3rd which he had never done before. He had extensive training at SS. He would not have done any better then Furcal during the time he played but he might have given Furcal the time to heal so when he did play again he would have played like the Furcal of 2006 not 2007. This is not hindsite, this discussion took place all season long. I agree with Paul that management did know the extent of his injury and decided a hurt Furcal was better then the other options. I think they were wrong. All these choices effected our season. Those who didn't follow closeley(Mark Donohue) and only look at the final standings evidently don't remember that until that fateful doubleheader in Sept we were in the thick of the race.

Furcal's most valuable tools are his speed and his throwing arm strength. He needs speed to beat out infield groundballs and bunts, which will raise his OBP, and provide him more opportunities to steal bases and score runs. Take away his speed, and his value on offense is severely impacted.

Furcal's arm strength allows him to make up for any lack of range (perhaps caused by injury) or positioning mistakes. Take away Furcal's ability to make strong, accurate throws to first base - and Rafael is a liability on defense playing shortstop.

In his time with the Dodgers, Rafael has had knee surgery (prior to the start of the 2006 season), a severe ankle strain for all of the 2007 season, and perhaps now a potential problem with his lower back (disk?).

Shortstop is the 2nd most demanding defensive position (catching being #1 and excluding pitchers). In 2008, the Dodgers must be careful how they manage the inevitable aches & pains of their two key players - Rafael Furcal and Russell Martin. This is the type of managerial problem that Joe Torre needs to handle better in 2008 than Grady Little did in 2006 & 2007.

69
The fact that Joe Torre played Betemit at 2nd and SS last year bought a smile to my face.

I'd like to revisit the notion that Dan Haren is going to give Arizona the best starting pitching in the NL West.

Haren is going from the second most pitcher friendly park to the fifth worst. ESPN shows the following numbers for the two parks:

Rank
Chase Field 5
Oakland 29

Runs:
Chase 1.111
Oakland 0.833

HR:
Chase 1.112
Oakland 0.786

Since being traded or going free agent, Mulder, Hudson, and Zito have yet to show the kind of dazzle they had when they played in Oakland. I know that there have been injuries, but still none of them have been the same domanent pitchers they were with the As.

Haren has a gopher ball problem and it is only going to get worse when he moves to one of the most hitter friendly parks in the game.

Dan Haren is a VERY good pitcher, just don't expect him to put up the same kind of numbers he had with the As and definitely do not expect him to post better numbers.

75 He's also leaving the league that has the DH and most of the good players in baseball. It should balance itself out.

75 Very compelling argument and I agree in principle that Haren will not be the same pitcher in '08. He is certainly an upgrade over Livan though right? So I think Arizona has improved their rotation, especially if Randy Johnson can come back healthy. I would still take our rotation and the Pads over Arizona's.

Nate would have enjoyed this game. Who knew it was taking place right in our backyard.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/highschool/features/265353.html

75 - related to your comment

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7004

75 The consensus in the baseball universe is that the American is the better or more dominant of the two major leagues.

But what about the other end of the spectrum. Which of the two leagues has the weakest teams? Are the top AL teams so great because the AL bottom dwellers are more pathetic than the weakest teams in the NL?

80 I'd say the bottom dwellers are about equal in each league. Baltimore, Tampa Bay, and Kansas City versus Washington, Pittsburgh and San Francisco seems like a fair fight.

81 Tampa wins that fight easily next year.

There's really no excuse for San Francisco to be a bottom dweller. With the possible exception of librarians, it's a nice play for people (with money) to live, and the team has plenty of money to spend, not to mention a new stadium.

I can't fathom that their ownership thinks their management has done a good job.

80 - the baseball universe is wrong.

NL (2007): .266/.334/.423
AL (2007): .271/.338/.423

NL WHIP/ERA: 1.40/4.43
AL WHIP/ERA: 1.41/4.50

The leagues are even, the elite teams in the AL may be better than the elite teams in the NL (are there any elite teams in the NL?), but as a whole, the leagues are within half a run and a hit per game.

81 We can add Oakland to the AL list in 2008. If and when they trade Joe Blanton & Houston Street, they may have the worst pitching staff in MLB.
The Florida Marlins should be a lot of fun to watch this season, too.

Great column Jon.

As I read it, I thought about the Cal Bears football season and Nate Longshore's ankle that never healed.

84 - That doesn't really show anything, since they're not facing the same competition most of the time.

2007 will be the last year Tampa will be in this conversation. Not an organization I would take in baseball over what they currently have and what they are going to get in the next 24 months.
A 2010 rotation of Kazmir, Shields, Price, W Davis, and either Garza or McGee will give David a shot at bringing down Goliath.

80 I see Tampa Bay having the potential for a Milwaukee-esque rise to respectability in 2008; the problem is, they play in a division with NY & BOS. If that's not a death knell, I don't know what is.

85
Even if they don't trade Blanton they should be one of the worse teams in baseball. They were going to be a lousy team even with Haren. When Ha