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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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They're Arrivin' Like Flies
2008-01-24 16:46
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Jose Vizcaino is returning to the Dodgers, as a special assistant in baseball operations. He will also be an on-field instructor during Spring Training and at the Dodgers' academy in the Dominican Republic.

I don't know if Vizcaino ever officially retired as a player, but he ended his career by going 8 for 23 in a final stint with the World Series champion St. Louis Cardinals in 2006.

He began his career at age 21 with the Dodgers in 1989. Perhaps fate did not want the Dodgers to win a World Series while Vizcaino wore a major league uniform. Who's to say?

Comments (79)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-01-24 17:05:39
1.   CanuckDodger
I'd like to respond to El Lay Dave's comment in #157 in the last thread. He said that Beane can't draft like the Dodgers because with their smaller revenue stream they can take fewer chances and need "a guaranteed return from the draft." But the thing is, their way of drafting, focusing on college players, is NOT guaranteeing them a return. They have been getting a very poor return, and certainly not as good of a return as the Dodgers have been getting. The Twins probably have a smaller revenue stream than the A's, and that has not kept them from drafting high school players, and getting more out of their drafts than the A's in the last four or five years.
2008-01-24 17:07:15
2.   Bluebleeder87
I've always thought Vizcaino was a very nice guy with a good bat & even better glove, nice to see the Dodgers hiring him. I'll always remember him getting a clutch hit with the Astros to drive in the winning or tying run a few years back, I thought he was gonna K but he came thrue like a champ.
2008-01-24 17:08:40
3.   regfairfield
1 Exactly, the draft is where the A's should be taking risks and where they can get by far the best return for their money. Yes, they could end up blowing a few million here or there, but since their scouting is clearly boneheaded in someway, they need to spend the money to take whatever player falls into their lap that shouldn't.
2008-01-24 17:12:05
4.   El Lay Dave
1 The A's return hasn't been good, but a bad return does hurt them more than a large revenue stream team because it is harder for them to make up that loss in other ways. Am I off-base that the A's thought they could more accurately project the older college players than the HS players - even if it didn't turn out that way - thus perceiving they were taking a smaller risk? If so, is this irony?
2008-01-24 17:13:00
5.   CanuckDodger
1 -- And I should also have mentioned the Rays as a team that doesn't shy away from HS players notwithstanding their limited revenue, and their farm is ranked #1 for the second year in a row.
2008-01-24 17:14:08
6.   overkill94
bluebleeder, why'd you get a vasectomy?
2008-01-24 17:16:25
7.   Bluebleeder87
2

of course you guys know I'm talking about an Astros playoff game a few years back...

2008-01-24 17:18:01
8.   CanuckDodger
4 -- Yes, the A's did think that. It is explained that way at length in Moneyball. And yes, they were wrong. And I do think it is ironic. They thought they were playing it "safe" but their philosophy caused their farm system to big crash.
2008-01-24 17:19:27
9.   Bluebleeder87
6

Because of my poor grammar & spelling (I don't wanna spread it) just kidding, I have my reasons & I'm very happy with the decision.

2008-01-24 17:19:30
10.   CanuckDodger
8 -- That should be "a big crash."
2008-01-24 17:19:42
11.   Jim Hitchcock
2 The last game I saw Jose play at DS he got 5...count 'em, 5 hits! It was a wonderful night for him.
2008-01-24 17:22:05
12.   paranoidandroid
Didn't we trade old friend Jose V to the Cubs for a second baseman that never stuck with the big club? I can't remember his name. I think it was Greg something. I'll be back after a quick Google.
2008-01-24 17:27:27
13.   Eric Enders
When I was, I think, 11 years old, I took a photo of Jose Vizcaino as an Albuquerque Duke. I sent him a copy to see if he would autograph it. A few weeks later I got a phone call out of the blue from his wife. Apparently they were in the habit of collecting a framed photo of Jose in each of the different uniforms he wore in baseball. She liked my photo and wanted to know if I had the negative and could send her an enlargement. Which I did. So somewhere in his house, probably in a drawer collecting dust, Vizcaino has a photo that I took.
2008-01-24 17:27:32
14.   Ken Arneson
4 I'll point you here:
http://catfishstew.baseballtoaster.com/archives/894455.html

where I take issue with this kind of blanket characterizations of the A's drafts as failures. They've failed in some ways, and succeeded in others, but it's not a HS/College issue. It's more that they've succeeded at those positions (corner OF, 1B, pitching) where stats are reliable predictors of success, and failed at those positions (SS, 2B, CF) where the athletic demands of the position make scout-based projections more relevant to the projections. The holes in the farm system primarily came from spending recent first round draft picks at those positions, and seeing them fail.

2008-01-24 17:27:38
15.   paranoidandroid
I can't find any trade info on Viz. He did hit a big homer in 2000 for a manager named Joe. I don't remember it, but there's more info on that than on his trade history.
2008-01-24 17:28:57
16.   Bluebleeder87
Vizcaino is still fairly young I'm sure he could have played a few more years but I guess he felt it was his time.
2008-01-24 17:39:31
17.   Dodgers49
12 December 14, 1990: Traded by the Los Angeles Dodgers to the Chicago Cubs for Greg Smith.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/vizcajo01.shtml

2008-01-24 17:42:09
18.   silverwidow
BA.com has an article on the hardest throwers in the minors. We had two entrants:

Clayton Kershaw (Peak Velocity: 99 MPH)
Chris Withrow (Peak Velocity: 98 MPH)

2008-01-24 17:44:01
19.   CanuckDodger
No college stats are reliable at predicting pro success. Danny Putnam is a corner OF that scouts were skeptical of, while scouts liked Ethier and Buck. What college starting pitcher drafted by the A's in the top rounds since Blanton (2002) has proven to be a good pick? Too early to say about Simmons, but that is another guy who is likely to have a pretty low ceiling even if he does make it.
2008-01-24 17:45:30
20.   paranoidandroid
17 Thanks. Smith was not too memorable.
2008-01-24 17:55:42
21.   Dodgers49
After reading Diamond Leung's entry I'm thinking we signed Vizcaino more because he is an ex-Giant:

>> Vizcaino, who formed a nice double-play combination with Jeff Kent on the Giants, will fill a role similar to the one created for Bill Mueller, the third baseman in San Francisco back then. <<

http://www.beloblog.com/Pe_Blogs/prosports/

2008-01-24 18:00:16
22.   D4P
will fill a role similar to the one created for Bill Mueller

And just what was the nature of that role again...?

2008-01-24 18:05:04
23.   bigcpa
http://tinyurl.com/2f43k7

With less than a month remaining until position players report for Spring Training, the lone hole that currently remains in the Twins lineup is in center field. And that hole is a gaping one.

If the Twins take the Mets package then they still need a CF!

2008-01-24 18:09:29
24.   Uncle Miltie
D4P- I'll be at tonight's UCLA/Oregon game in the pit.
2008-01-24 18:14:13
25.   D4P
24
Sweet. That'll probably be the best crowd of the year. Not that the Ducks will necessarily win, but it'll be fun anyway.

Have you enjoyed going to the games thus far?

2008-01-24 18:15:36
26.   El Lay Dave
24 "We are open to anything that would make our club better," [Twins GM Bill] Smith said of possibly adding another center fielder to the mix. "If something else comes that we can supplement that then we will certainly consider that."

Can Bill Smith be convinced that a certain Dodger surplus CF could make his club better?

2008-01-24 18:18:35
27.   bigcpa
26 What helps our cause is they need a leadoff hitter too.
2008-01-24 18:22:09
28.   El Lay Dave
27 Certainly they know that a guy who's had around a .330 OBP each of the last three years (with one of the largest sample sizes) isn't a leadoff hitter.
2008-01-24 18:26:42
29.   LAT
Bluebleeder87, I have two words for you: FROZEN PEAS!!!
2008-01-24 18:34:05
30.   El Lay Dave
14 Thanks. I actually read that entry when it was new, but forgot about it in this context. The recent trades by the A's do create a perception of farm failure, though, and seems like an admission of something lacking there, serious enough to warrant peddling the talent they do have.
2008-01-24 18:34:51
31.   El Lay Dave
29 How does that help with homonyms?
2008-01-24 18:35:30
32.   bigcpa
28 They will certainly focus on his career .348 OBP and the fact that their top returning SB guy was Nick Punto with 16. They absolutely need Pierre so get with the program!!
2008-01-24 18:36:12
33.   Bob Timmermann
A look at Jose Vizcaino back when I thought his career was over.

http://tinyurl.com/2e7fmn

2008-01-24 18:44:06
34.   Andrew Shimmin
Pea is a homonym most people wouldn't get wrong more than once. It'd be memorable.
2008-01-24 18:50:18
35.   LAT
Frozen peas lead to frozen pees. But not the other way around.
2008-01-24 19:04:28
36.   Andrew Shimmin
Oregon State is taking crazy pills.
2008-01-24 19:16:40
37.   El Lay Dave
36 Oregon St. has hit 1/4 of their twos but 1/3 of their threes. Just hoist them from long range boys!
2008-01-24 19:29:49
38.   Andrew Shimmin
Rather than watch the end of the bombardment, I switched over to Jeopardy. The returning champion lost because she misspelled Rockefeller, RockeRfeller. If I were to lose a game of Jeopardy in that fashion, there would be a hostage situation. And it would not end nicely.
2008-01-24 19:31:54
39.   Andrew Shimmin
She also lost because she bet like a jerk. So, there's that.
2008-01-24 19:41:00
40.   natepurcell
Chris Withrow (Peak Velocity: 98 MPH)

How the hell did that happen?

I mean, if that is actually true and Withrow is healthy this year.....here comes another top pitching prospect.

2008-01-24 19:43:46
41.   Jon Weisman
Arizona beat WSU.
2008-01-24 19:46:23
42.   Jon Weisman
If Washington and Oregon hold their current leads, the standings would be rather compressed - eight teams within a game of first place:

4-2 ASU
4-2 Stanford
4-2 UCLA
4-2 WSU
4-3 Oregon
3-3 Arizona
3-3 USC
3-3 Washington
2-4 California
0-7 Oregon State

2008-01-24 19:48:50
43.   ToyCannon
Peak velocity based on fewer innings then the number of my fingers. I'll wait a season before I get interested since he never came close to that before.
2008-01-24 19:50:33
44.   Bob Timmermann
Ooh, a Nikola Dragovic sighting.
2008-01-24 19:51:55
45.   paranoidandroid
That report of 98 mph reminds me of that kid the Mets had in spring training years ago. Sports Illustrated did an interesting piece on him. Threw well over 100 and he was a secret weapon that nobody ever knew about. Of course he didn't really exist, but I don't think Withrow's 98 does either.
2008-01-24 19:53:47
46.   natepurcell
45

So how many pitchers are we allowed that only exist in fantasy?

2008-01-24 19:54:07
47.   Bob Timmermann
I think UCLA and USC fans should start booing every Southern California player who doesn't play for one of the two local schools.

The nerve of those kids.

2008-01-24 20:07:41
48.   CanuckDodger
45 -- What do you mean Withrow's 98 MPH doesn't "exist?" It "happened." Are you saying it won't happen again, or are you saying the reports of it happening at all are fictitious? Roger Clemens had never thrown a pitch that reached 90 MPH when he was Withrow's age.
2008-01-24 20:08:59
49.   Andrew Shimmin
Oregon's coach is wearing one of those Steve Lavin shirts, with the curvy collar. I suspect D4P designed those back when he was working at his Peruvian Pimp Haberdashery.
2008-01-24 20:13:47
50.   Andrew Shimmin
UCLA's white guy who isn't Kevin Love doesn't seem to be very good at basketball.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-01-24 20:16:22
51.   Bob Timmermann
50
There are two guys matching that description in James Keefe and Nikola Dragovic. The latter isn't very good, but the former is useful. But neither of them are an Andrew Bogut.
2008-01-24 20:17:05
52.   Lexinthedena
Powersauce!
2008-01-24 20:20:17
53.   Andrew Shimmin
Keefe is the one I meant. I saw your note about Dragovic, but thought he was a Duck.
2008-01-24 20:22:01
54.   Bob Timmermann
Does Maarty Leeunen's butt get an assist on that last basket by Westbrook?
2008-01-24 20:25:20
55.   ImHurtn
29

Frozen french fries will have to do LAT.

2008-01-24 20:25:54
56.   Andrew Shimmin
No. But, if I were the ref, I'd let him give Westbrook an elbow in the ribs on the house.
2008-01-24 20:33:12
57.   Andrew Shimmin
Anybody know who the woman giving the half time scores is? Haven't seen her before. She should be the new Jeanne Zelasko.
2008-01-24 20:42:17
58.   trainwreck
57
Danyelle Sargent. She used to be on ESPN and Sportscenter.
2008-01-24 20:45:42
59.   trainwreck
58
Mostly ESPNews.
2008-01-24 20:47:10
60.   Andrew Shimmin
Here wikipedia page leads somewhere funny.
2008-01-24 20:52:56
61.   El Lay Dave
Tornado warning for Malibu to Pacific Palisades!
2008-01-24 20:57:34
62.   Xeifrank
The officiating is making the UCLA game hard to watch! vr, Xei
2008-01-24 21:06:39
63.   El Lay Dave
More tornado warnings. (Sorry about the all caps, but that's how the NWS rolls.)

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN OXNARD HAS ISSUED A

* TORNADO WARNING FOR... SOUTHERN LOS ANGELES COUNTY IN SOUTHWEST CALIFORNIA... THIS INCLUDES THE CITIES OF LONG BEACH...SAN PEDRO... TORRANCE AND LAKEWOOD

* UNTIL 1000 PM PST

* AT 848 PM PST...NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE DOPPLER RADAR INDICATED A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WITH GOOD ROTATION CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A TORNADO. THE CELL WAS 9 MILES SOUTH SOUTHWEST OF LONG BEACH... MOVING NORTH AT 25 MPH.

* OTHER LOCATIONS IN THE WARNING INCLUDE BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO HAWTHORNE...NORWALK AND LYNWOOD

Toto, am I in Kansas again?

2008-01-24 21:12:23
64.   Daniel Zappala
This is pretty amazing weather:

http://tinyurl.com/yt8gqk

2008-01-24 21:12:48
65.   Xeifrank
63. You can monitor the cells here in real-time.
http://tinyurl.com/r9fl4
(SFW: Doppler radar). Deselect some of the options and you can view the tornado warning areas (red box just off the coast).
vr, Xei
2008-01-24 21:16:43
66.   Andrew Shimmin
I refuse to acknowledge any NWS advisories until they stop shouting at me.
2008-01-24 21:21:07
67.   Bluebleeder87
63

Tornado's in California? now I've seen everything.

2008-01-24 21:26:22
68.   El Lay Dave
67 And you thought the weirdest part of your day had already occurred.
2008-01-24 21:28:47
69.   Andrew Shimmin
That Westbrook fellow isn't bad.
2008-01-24 21:28:47
70.   El Lay Dave
65 Thanks. I was looking at radar maps elsewhere, but they don't have the tornado warning areas outlined. For us, that's impressive weather.
2008-01-24 21:29:29
71.   Xeifrank
I am trying not to jinx the Bruins by not watching any more of the game. When I had it on for a few mintues they called 5 fouls in a row against UCLA. vr, Xei
2008-01-24 21:30:43
72.   Xeifrank
70. My friend works for the NOAA in Oxnard and has me setup with all the great links. Can even read their insider weather discussion and view the flow of the local creeks in case of flooding danger.
vr, Xei
2008-01-24 21:31:47
73.   Bob Timmermann
If you asked Mike Davis (the writer, not the guy who got the walk before Kirk Gibson), there are HUNDREDS of tornadoes EVERY YEAR in Los Angeles.

He was a little off. They are infrequent, but not unheard of in these parts.

2008-01-24 21:32:25
74.   Bob Timmermann
72
Weather nerd!
2008-01-24 21:34:19
75.   Xeifrank
74. My two rain gauges in my backyard take offense to that comment.
vr, Xei
2008-01-24 21:36:55
76.   Xeifrank
UCLA was predicted to win 77-70 tonight, it's going to be pretty close to that score.

http://kenpom.com/sked.php?y=2008&team=UCLA&t=p

They also have UCLA ending up 26-5 and 14-4 in conference.

vr, Xei

2008-01-24 21:42:39
77.   Bob Timmermann
I would say that a 26-5 record for UCLA would not be unexpected.
2008-01-24 21:43:16
78.   Xeifrank
Whew, the anti-jinx worked. :)
vr, Xei
2008-01-24 21:48:01
79.   Jon Weisman
NPUT

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