It would be really cool if there were a couple of tiny people in the middle of the model field looking at a tiny model...

Clearly, they're correcting the jetpack entrance oversight.

LAT'd from last thread: I'm not sure you can assume that this remodel will increase ticket prices and/or parking fees. Both of those are based on what the market will bear and not on costs, it seems to me. They charge the prices they do because 4 million people are willing to pay them.

I got LAT'd from the last thread, but I feel strongly enough about this to repost. Although the picture of our ethically spineless mayor glad-handing with Frank makes me a little optimistic in my sentiments:

I took a look at the models and renderings, and it makes me a little ill at ease. I guess something like this was inevitable, but it's going to be tough to pull off without ruining the charm of Dodger Stadium. What makes DS such a special space and a civic institution in Los Angeles is, I believe, the wide open space in the outfield. The panorama of the stadium stretches from the seats out past the pavilions and the parking lot to the Elysian Park hills, and beyond to the San Gabriels. That's a serene view, and I think it's one of the Stadium's best characteristics. From the renderings, it looks like two giant rectangular BOXES are going to built in the parking lot beyond the pavilions. It will completely obliterate that panorama, and in doing so, will destroy the charm of Dodger Stadium. The stadium itself looks like it's just going to be another feature of the Chavez Ravine Mall.

Remodeling, landscaping and building on the part of the parking lot outside the view of the seats (i.e., the terraced lots and the top of the park) is fine, I suppose. But leave the vista beyond the pavilions alone. I sincerely hope that civic pressure forces the McCourts to scale back this monstrosity.

And as others have touched on, this whole thing is worthless without some kind of public transit link to the Gold Line. Otherwise, it will be used exactly 81 days a year, when the Dodgers are home, and will sit vacant every other day on the calendar.

I see the Stat of the Week has Andruw Jones third in the majors in pitches seen per plate appearance at 4.51. Last year he wasn't among the leaders.

First on the list, for 2007 and 2008, is Jayson Werth.

Shouldn't there be a macro for "I apologise if this has already been mentioned." How about an acronym:

IAITHABM

On a similar note, SFW, although I hope bhsportsguy doesn't get after me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agaI4mqUDX4

So if that's a Giant mayor, that must be one heck of a gigantic stadium behind him.

Remind me never to capitalize the word "giant" again.

4 - I think there are plenty of successful gathering spaces in Los Angeles that don't have Gold Line access. If there's viable entertainment/amenities to be had, I don't know that it'll be dormant.

I agree about the importance of the panorama, but are you sure it's going to be blocked out?

6 Dave Thomas looks like a Japanese woodchuck. No problem from me.

And the late Dave Thomas's restaurants will now have to deal with being associated with Puddy.

If you want an alternate take from an OC point of view: I have to leave really early to even have a chance to get there without traffic nightmares, so I would welcome some options to stroll around the park, maybe have a drink, etc. So this looks pretty good to me.

8 - That's how I realized my initial headline was wrong!

Is anybody else reminded of the classic Twilight Zone episode "The Little People"?

12 Just to clarify, I meant leave home early. I take off around 4:30 to get to a Dodger game from Huntington Beach. Much later than that and I'll spend a lot of time in traffic.

14 That and the movie `Brazil'.

What is that? A stadium for ants? That stadium needs to be at least.....three times bigger!

All I can think of is "God knows they're squinters".

Mike Easler on Andruw Jones:

"I think it will come in bunches for him. He's sure working hard at it," Easler says. "It shouldn't be too long. About June, I think. Give him two months to work out the kinks."

June???

http://tinyurl.com/5cb25d

Maybe I will be able to afford to go to a Dodger game once in my lifetime.

"So yes, Mistah Mayah, you and your 'friend' can enter the stadium right he-ah next to the Dodga-dog Cafe."

Totally unrelated, but Jimmy Fallon is going to take over for Conan when he gets the Tonight Show.

Which means I will never watch Late Night again.

10 To answer your first point: Dodger Stadium is right in the middle of the city, but it is very much removed from the city. It is seperated by virtue of being on hilltop. Public transit brings it back into the urban fold. As long as the Dodgers are there to make it a destination, people will make the trip. Without the Dodgers, I'm not sure they will.

To answer your second point: The artist's renderings made it look like those building beyond the pavilions extend almost the entire length of the pavilions, and rise higher than the bottom of the reserved level. Anyone sitting in the field, loge or lower reserved will no longer have any view of the hills. The upper reserved and top deck might still be able to see some wide open space past the roofs of these structures, but the primary object in the view will be the structures themselves.

Artist's renderings and conceptions are notorious for overplaying or underplaying the impact of a proposed building, depending on how the builder wants it portrayed.

I didn't know the SF Giants had a mayor. This headline doesn't make sense to me. Do you mean the SF Mayor, or the Giants Owner?
vr, Xei

In today's St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Rams owners Chip Rosenbloom says that the team will not move back to Los Angeles.

Just in case anyone missed them.

20
You really need to work on your mooching skills.

19 LOL. Are the drugs on backorder or something?

Is this the real sequel to Cloverfield?

19. Two months?? That's not long enough. I'd ask for two years. He needs two years to work out the kinks. :)
vr, Xei

28
Is McCourt the parasite that has attached itself to Antonio Villaraigosa.

20 - You don't have $9?

23 - But again, if they successfully imitate CityWalk, why wouldn't people come? That CityWalk parking lot on the hill is overflowing, unless I'm mistaken.

It's predicated on them being successful in what they build. If people don't come, it'll be because there's no movie theater or the stops and restaurants aren't worth it. But it won't be because they have to drive there.

30
?

The entrance and "Dodger Way" especially immediately call to mind walking into Turner Field. About that park I have mixed feelings--the electrified carnival "let's have fun!" atmosphere always is an immediate turn-off, but the shops, restaurants, and museum are decent places to spend time after surviving Atlanta traffic.

31 The bare minimum cost is $24, right? $9 for a ticket and $15 for parking.

34 You could street-park and walk. Not fun at all, but, in theory!

I could have sworn there used to be a bus that would go from the china town gold line stop. Did this practice stop? I kind of liked the idea.

31 The very fact that we're comparing the "new" Dodger Stadium to an artificial tourist trap like CityWalk makes me queasy.

I'm also not thrilled with the likelihood that the Dodgers are about to become a very secondary interest to Frank McCourt, as this project picks up steam.

34. for me, add about $25 for gas. Car gas that is.
vr, Xei

I like the idea that there's something to do after/ before the game. That should help alleviate traffic a little because not everyone's trying to pour in and out at once.

34 - Bob'll give him a ride in the Prius.

31 As you know, $24 is the price to get in the parking lot and into the cheapest seat. A modest lunch brings you to about $36. And the cheap seats are really bad. A decent seat costs you $100 with parking the best seats... well they are for the very very privileged. All of this is sure to be WAY up by the time this plan is executed. Which brings me back to my earlier questions: Is it okay is a ballgame is a luxury item?

36. Atleast they aren't adding a roller coaster that circles around the stadium doing loopdee loops around the diamond vision scoreboard. vr, Xei

41 Honestly, I'm surprised they left that out.

That, and the casino.

41 That would be kind of cool, actually.

By the way, aren't all baseball stadiums, by definition, artificial tourist traps?

From last night's thread:

Trainwreck, Dirt Nasty?

Please tell me you were kidding around, Simon Rex is such a horrible rapper. Talk about one dimensional. How many repetitive, braggadocio verses can one man write?

Plus, add the cost for me getting to Los Angeles.

44
It is purposely hilarious.

43 There's something organic about a baseball stadium that comes from the action on the field, which is not artificial by any means (unless Barry Bonds is involved. ZING!) The more bells and whistles and shops and movie theaters and rollercoasters, the more artificial it is.

CityWalk is a simulated urban existence. It's artificial, and it sucks. The less that the "new" Dodger Stadium has to do with baseball, the more it will suck too.

41
The St. Louis Browns park back in the 19th Century had an amusement park attached to it.

One of the early parks used by the PCL Angels was called Chutes Park because it was attached to an amusement park with water slides.

A baseball park isn't going to generate any extra revenue for either its owners or its neighborhood unless it has something to draw people from out of the area to go there. The Dodgers won't go rich on cheap guys from South Pasadena mooching tickets and not buying food most of the time.

40 yes, if that's what the market will bear. I think the cheapest tickets to a Colorado Avalanche game is around $45.

However, I do think it behooves a franchise to cultivate a fanbase across class lines, since bigger fanbase= more fans, obviously. And attending a game at the stadium is a large part of becoming a fan, especially for kids (ie, the next generation of paying fans).

36 - I hate CityWalk myself, but that's another issue entirely and has nothing to do with whether people will come.

McCourt has already made the stadium and the business of the Dodgers a priority. This is nothing new.

40 - One of our family's season tickets - which I'll admit are ungodly expensive for my dad - plus parking does not cost $100. To say that a decent seat costs you $100 is an exaggeration.

I wouldn't want to sit in the Top Deck every game, but for a first visit to Dodger Stadium came up high, and it was thrilling. I'd argue that Dodger Stadium's cheap seats can be a pretty great experience.

46 If you come down to L.A. during baseball season, I will give you ticket to a game, heck I'll pick you up just to have someone explain to me why Rasshan still believes he can be a QB.

45. Yes, I mentioned that too. It would cost me $20-$25 in gas to get there. That's not the Dodgers fault, but it's another cost of going to a game. That's why I am so happy that the parking rates on my driveway have remained dirt cheap over the years.
vr, Xei

I was totally serious about the rollercoaster. That would be awesome. And, as Bob mentioned, rollercoasters behind the outfield fence are a baseball tradition going back to the days of Robison Field. The minor league park in Altoona has one also. As does, obviously, Keyspan Park at Coney Island.

50 Season tickets like that are more than $5K not even a consideration for most people. Single game tickets on the first two levels and inside the foul pole are $70+ parking. I don't think I exaggerated other than I should have said "good seat" instead of decent. Either way, it's a lot and it will go up.

51
I will actually try to go to a game late this season or next year. And possibly try to go to spring training.

52
Yeah, I have to fly to LA.

53 Don't the Dodgers put you on enough of a rollercoaster already? ;-)

Agreed with Jon, that people will come if its a worthwhile destination, regardless of a transit alternative.

The point about transit is two-fold. People already have a problem getting to Dodger games and the anecdotal evidence is that people skip out on going to games because of the difficulty in accessibility. This problem will only get worse as the region continues to grow and congestion in Central LA worsens. The second point is that the Dodgers themselves, in announcing this project, made a big deal about reducing carbon footprint and other environmental impacts. They're obviously hoping this will carry some weight in the EIR process. Well, you can plant all the trees you want, and use all compact fluorescent light bulbs, but if you're not cutting down on vehicle trips, in fact you're increasing them, I don't see how that's reducing carbon footprint.

looks sweet. I see an all-star game in our future.

Just sent the following off to my season ticket rep. These grandiose ambitions worry me and my checkbook:

"Dodgers Season Ticket Office,

I have just finished reading, quite excitedly I might add, the press release about the upcoming improvements to Dodger Stadium to be completed by Opening Day 2012.

While I am certainly in favor of these improvements, I saw nothing in the press release about how construction will be financed. I am currently a "2 for 2" season ticket holder in the Reserve level and have seen my season tickets more than double in cost the last 3 years--all of this I might add, with no major improvements made to the section in which I sit.

I wanted to voice my concern about the future price of my tickets. While I understand the need for minor price adjustments, I sincerely hope another substantial increase, along the lines of the 42% increase we experienced this year, is not on the horizon.

I hope Mr. McCourt realizes how much Reserve level tickets have already been raised (without a championship caliber team and/or improvements to the Reserve level) when considering finance options for the upcoming upgrades.

Again, I am certainly excited about these upgrades, but also a tad anxious that construction costs will make our season seats too costly.

I hope this letter finds its way to the appropriate party and I will be grateful for any response.

Thanks so much,

Season Ticket Holder

The thing about the ticket prices isn't that they're expensive now, but that they were laughably underpriced just a few years back.

My season tickets are not great at all -- way down the right field line -- but they're not terrible either. Four seats and a parking pass cost $68 or so this season. I'll repeat: FOUR seats. And parking included.

Where people (including me) get upset is that just four years ago, when I first signed up, the price was $38 for the same package. That's a big big increase in a short short amount of time.

So the idea that you can't take your family to Dodger Stadium is a myth. So is the idea that McCourt is pricing out the lower-income fanbase. Tickets are still very affordable. But with the increases of the past few years, we'll have to see what the future holds.

58 That didn't even occur to me. I'll finally get to plan my L.A. All Star party menu. Chili burgers? Tacos? Pastrami in inappropriate places? Pizzas with shrimp on them?

I feel like if we start talking about transportation costs to get to Dodger Stadium from outside Los Angeles County, we sort of lose the thread of the discussion.

The bottom line is that as expensive as it is, going to a Dodger game today can be about the same cost as going to a movie. At the low end of the ticket scale, it's competitively priced entertainment.

Doesn't mean it isn't more financially prudent to stay at home, but I don't think it's accurate to say that it's a luxury item for many people in Los Angeles, if they plan it right. Admittedly, it helps if you eat first.

51
My guess is that Osaar realizes he won't be playing football for a living, so he might as well play a position he likes. Even though, he won't play at all.

Well, you can plant all the trees you want, and use all compact fluorescent light bulbs, but if you're not cutting down on vehicle trips, in fact you're increasing them, I don't see how that's reducing carbon footprint

Along those lines, I've been wondering if, after a person procreates, there is anything they can subsequently do such that their overall impact on the earth either returns to (or is less than) their pre-procreation impact level. (I'm assuming the answer is "No").

Has anyone seen this issue addressed?

60 Meant to add -- my seat is way down the right field line in the loge. Inside the foul pole.

My point about public transit was parenthetical. My larger concern is the diminishing of the Dodger Stadium experience that we all know and love in favor of the CityWalk claptrap.

Wow, 59 and 60 were an amazing Point/Counterpoint. My conclusion - you're both right!

McCourt: "When we get the actual, uh, stadium, when we get the remodel, it'll...it'll follow exactly these specifications. I mean even these contours and everything?"

Villaraigosa: "Um, I'm not understanding it. What do you mean 'the actual stadium?'"

McCourt: "Well I mean...I mean when you build the actual stadium."

Villaraigosa: "But this is what you asked for, isn't it?"

McCourt: "What?"

Villariagosa: "Well this is the stadium."

McCourt: "This is the stadium?"

Villariagosa: "Yes."

McCourt: "Are you telling me that this is it? This is a stadium? Have you ever been to Dodger Stadium?"

Villaraigosa: "I was...I was...I was supposed to build it eighteen inches high."

McCourt: "This is insane. This isn't a stadium."

Villaraigosa: "Look, look. Look, this is what I was asked to build. Eighteen inches. Right here, it specifies eighteen inches. I was given this napkin, I mean..."

46 I realize it says comedy on his myspace, I just don't get it.

I have gone to 5 games so far this year, considering they have only played 10 at home so far, that's a lot.

3 games were part of my season ticket package, the other 2 I was a guest of two very generous friends.

I have paid to park 3 times, one game, I don't think bought anything to eat, the others I did spend a few bucks.

My tickets are right behind home plate in the Infield Reserve section and if you added them both up with the parking in comes to $61.

I'm not saying that is cheap, frankly its a luxury item that if I had to give it up I would. But as much as it is to watch games at home, it doesn't beat being there.

And I'm 4-1 so far.

68 "Spruce Moose" distant second on possible reference-dropping.

40 my favorite seats were always the top deck centered behind home plate. Well except the one time when I got to sit sub-ground level behind home plate. Those seats don't exist anymore though.

54 - I'm not at all suggesting that most people can afford season tickets. But I'm sorry, I'm not going to concede that a person going to Dodger Stadium has to sit on the first two levels to enjoy the game. No way. I sat in the reserved level two weeks ago with friends and had a great time and a fine view of the game.

69
He is just mocking what mainstream rap is like. I really only pay attention his song "1980". I do not care about the rest.

67 I agree. 59 isn't wrong. He's concerned, as am I, that we haven't seen the last of the high-double-digit price increases. He's worried that he'll be priced out of the market for the buy-2-get-2 deal, which is a fantastic deal for young families.

I'm worried about that, too, but I think this is one area in which McCourt is very, very smart. I think he'll find 59 's and my breaking point, stick the price there, and call it a day for several years.

62. There are a lot of people who live outside of LA County that have season tickets and/or attend many Dodgers and Lakers games. I can see your point about people having to fly in from out of state. vr, Xei

64 Not to be snarky, but I think that problem is corrected by dying.

64 extinction? What's the point of saving the earth if nobody is around to enjoy it.

77
That's the typical response, the problems with which are that (1) people can have more than one kid, and (2) people typically don't die immediately upon the birth of their offspring. Rather, they live another 50 years or so.

72 Those seats were actually not as good as the current Dugout boxes. Those seats were so low you couldn't see everything, they had a fence in front of and above them, they were further from the action and they didn't come with free food.
Of course they didn't cost $500 each either.

78
I'm not suggesting that no one should procreate, but rather that buying a hybrid, using florescent bulbs, buying organic, etc. etc. probably don't make up for the initial impact of procreating.

But I don't know if it's possible to make up for procreation or not, and I'd be curious to know if anyone has seen research in this area.

79
I don't have any kids, so presumably D4P won't be murdering me in my sleep.

The notion that a Dodger game is comparable in cost to a movie would be legitimate if there were movie theaters that charged you $15 to park. But I'm not sure there are.

Is D4P trying to convince us to join his cult?

80
The old Dugout boxes were one of O'Malley's pet projects. He saw them used in a stadium in Japan (I believe it was Korakuen Stadium in Tokyo) and he thought they would be a good addition to the U.S.

I don't believe any Japanese stadium has dugout seating now. The stadium in Chiba has a pressbox at ground level and it is soundproof and it's really weird to watch a game from that viewpoint and not hear anything on the field.

73 Fair enough. I'm spoiled and I'm sure you're right. But with parking and food being an almost necessary part of the experience (not to mention a program or a souvenir which the kids are begging for) , I disagree that it is equal to a movie in price. And I'm not sure most people can afford a movie anymore!

Attending a Dodger game getting compared to going to a movie. That is so typical of this blog. :)
vr, Xei

76 - Of course there are people from outside the county who go. But that's not news, and hardly relates to the merits of McCourt's plans, any more than a discussion of gas prices should spend time on the cost of a Dodger Stadium ticket.

If one can't afford to drive or fly to a game now, I sympathize. But that's not McCourt's fault.

74 Ok, good. Most of his stuff is just plain bad.

Can I get a confirmation from the Irony Police regarding Simon Rex (ex-MTV veejay/current friend of Paris Hilton) mocking mainstream anything?

83 - Many movie tickets here are more expensive than cheap Dodger tickets, so it comes pretty close.

83 there are, believe it or not

Don't forget, offer for free 10 day trial to try GreenCine.com is still good for fellow DT-ers. Secret promo code is "dodgerthoughts"

Have at it! Cheaper than a few beers at the stadium.

84 A children-free cult might be a welcome change these days. (I keed, I keed...)

90 and with the quality of movies lately, a Dodger game is much better entertainment

88. Ok, but my original comment was more geared towards your cost of $9 to go to a Dodger game. Only in a vacuum it is. And I admitted that transportation costs are out of McCourts hands (for the most part).
vr, Xei

80 yeah, was still cool the inning I got to sit there.

52 Yes, but explain to me why you park in a driveway and drive on a parkway.

83
Let's take Eric to Arclight sometime. We'll show him an expensive movie ticket.

And we won't tell him how to get his parking validated.

Or we could just take him to The Grove or to Paseo Colorado. When you go to see a movie there, the ushers literally pick you up by your ankles and shake you to see how much money falls out.

They have very strong ushers.

86 - Food is expensive at movie theaters too. And I sure don't get out of the theater without buying it for my family.

Look, I'm not going to hang my hat on the notion that Dodger Stadium is cheaper than a movie. But I agree with Humma Kavula - there's a bit of an overreaction to what Dodger Stadium costs when compared with what everything else in the world costs.

I do think it would be a monumentally good thing for the birth rate to slow down to the point that it equals the death rate. But you're sort of asking whether any sort of remedy for environmental issues is worthwhile short of zero population growth. And you're asking if there's research into this. That'd be a pretty complex study.

96
Parkways are, in theory, scenic highways that accompany parkland. The Pasadena Freeway started out as the Arroyo Seco Parkway.

Driveways just get you from the street to an offstreet parking area.

I hope this thread not descend into the "Friends" episode where Joey, Rachel and Phoebe got upset because Monica, Chandler and Ross always wanted to go to places that cost a lot of money.

I hope the Dodgers consider all their fans and work on ways to continue to embrace everyone at different price points.

But I also don't think my seats at $23 apiece are that expensive considering where they are located.

90 I'm admittedly quibbling more than is worth it, but comparing the most expensive movie ticket to the cheapest Dodger ticket isn't the best way to go about it.

I pay $5.50 to go to a movie.

Of course, this doesn't change your larger argument that a Dodger game can be attended relatively cheaply if you try hard enough. I'm sure it can. But I think bringing movie ticket prices into it only weakens the argument.

81 there are so many other people that don't procreate either. people are dying about as often as people are being born. These things have a way of balancing out.

97 And try taking your own food or drink into one of those places.

Does the word "balm" mean anything to you?

102 - Eric, don't you think you should account for what a movie costs in Los Angeles as opposed to where you live?

The secret is out. D4P's real name is Thomas Malthus.

if you are ever so inclined to go to the theatre, how much do you think those seats and the parking cost? entertainment costs alot, no two ways about it, but I, for one, won't spend 162 days a year inside watching baseball on TV

101 ha, I was just thinking that.

102
I pay $5.50 to go to a movie.

Are you a senior citizen going to a matinée?

How is that even possible?

senior citizen at a matinee? try $8 each

At AMC theaters, tickets on weekends and holidays are $6 before noon

A couple years ago, you could shove a few people in the car, stop at Jack In The Box before hand, and go to Dodger Stadium for 10 dollars. Today, that goes up to 15 dollars. Dodger games are probably the cheapest way I spend a weekend night.

111 - Fair enough.

98 and a professional baseball game can be seen live much cheaper than football or basketball.

$5.50 or 6.50 is matinee for most places in the East Bay.

101 How about the episode of my life where my friends and I sit around and debate how the characters on "Friends" can afford their beautiful, large Manhattan apartments on waitress tips, unemployment, and so on.

64 I'm screwed.

112
Just buy tacos.

{112] I assume that is per person.

And I agree, with you.

Again.

I pay $1 for movies, because I go to the $1 theater a lot.

I can also easily pay $5.50 using any number of available discounts, e.g. an Entertainment book.

I am also cheap and mean enough to refuse popcorn and soda to my kids at the movies (sorry, Jon), but I have been known to stuff their coat pockets with sweets and juice boxes during winter months.

118 I go Jumbo Jack and Two Tacos for $2.50.

112 hate to say it, but when I was in high school, we would drive to Dodger Stadium, and $5 would be enough for gas to get there, parking, a dog, peanuts and a soda, with money left over....

now $5 won't ever cover the peanuts

116 If they didn't need to have a 3 camera set up, they could have been smaller. Plus, how could fit 6 or more people in a real Manhattan apartment and make it look like fun.

"Joy Page, who played Bulgarian newlywed Annina Brandel in "Casablanca," died April 18 of complications from a stroke and pneumonia in Los Angeles. She was 83."

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117984571.html

120 I bet you even taught your kids to sneak from one theatre into the other to catch another movie

120 My nieces are used to a large drink and 3 straws.

105 "Eric, don't you think you should account for what a movie costs in Los Angeles as opposed to where you live?"

Of course. Thing is, it's cheaper in L.A.

For example, I'm on Fandango, and if I were concerned with getting the cheapest movie ticket (analagous to the cheapest Dodger ticket), I can buy a ticket to any movie this Saturday at Magic Johnson's theater in Crenshaw for $5.00. Or, alternatively, I could go to the Century 8 in North Hollywood for $6.00.

Light up the halo!

113 sorry, I actually wasn't arguing the cheap price correlation. It is just kind of a relevant fact, so consider it a PSA. I tell everyone who will listen.

And, to go even further- you can probably find $5 tickets outside the stadium if you don't mind the, um, resale market. I know I have.

Well, 127 was overkill. That's what I get for not refreshing.

127 yes, but would your car be there when the movie was over?

125 No, I don't stoop that low.

128 That game is in Boston.

132 why not? I taught my kids...just kidding

Liriano showing that it is not all a bed or roses after TJ surgery.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/boxscore.jsp?gid=2008_04_24_minmlb_oakmlb_1

98

Games are definitely cheaper for me than a movie. I pay $4 for a ticket (12 pack upper deck), and I love the seats there right behind home plate. I get to know all the people around me that have the packages, and I have had less problems there with rowdy people than being in Reserved. I walk into the stadium and pack my own food and drink.

That kind of value cannot be beat. My brother is extremely jealous that I get 12 games for under fifty dollars. He can barely get 2 games for that price in St. Louis.

132 yeah but you have one paying child go in and open the door in the back for the rest, right?

127
Comedy. I was thinking the same thing.

I meant 131
Shoot!

124

Customer: Are you sure this place is honest?

Carl: Honest? As honest as the day is long!

Did you know that Joy Page was Jack Warner's step daughter and that Casablanca was her film debut at age 17. Despite her short but memorable role, she never appeared in another Warner Bros. film.

Bronco fans, you just got Dewayne Robertson from the Jets for an undisclosed draft pick.

136 exactly, those are such good seats for the money. sure there are better seats, but you get such a great view of the field and surroundings. and like you said, none of that OF bleacher element that can ruin the experience.

upperdeck behind home plate is the best value for my $

141 sigh. expected, still not really wanted.

137 No, we save 50% by having small kids stand on the shoulders of the older kids. Then we dress them in over-sized clothes so it just looks like we have abnormally-tall kids.

144 now that is funny

or you bring all the kids in costume as your pet centipede

145 After the movie, they go storm the castle.

144 nice, I have 3 daughters myself so these are good tips. thanks DZ

141/143 - Saw that. Expected, as Hallux said, not thrilling. Though as long as it wasn't for a very high pick (like, gack, first) I'm mostly okay with it. The DT is not a real strong position in the draft this year after the first studs are taken, so if it keeps them from signing more ex-Browns or wasting a draft pick it's okay.

You could just buy one kid a ticket, and have him/her wander up to the ticket taker pretending to be lost. Then, while the ticket taker goes to find the manager to deal with that, the rest of the kids sneak in.

The top article at Baseball Prospectus right now opens with the rather stunning claim that the two best players on the 2007 Marlins were Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis.

149 "a late-round conditional 2009 draft choice" - doesn't sound like much of a risk, to me.

150 I thought we were the only ones who did that

152 Ooh, conditional '09 pick. I like that much better now. Still need to see the contract, but I expect it to be reasonable, with the way the rest of the offseason has gone

IAITHABM, but did the architects completely overlook the fact that a 'batters eye' will completely ruin the look of their prized 'grand entryway'?

... completely.

155 - IHBM.

I will accept the arguement that if you are trying to go to a Dodger playoff game or opening day it is expensive since the public does not get the opportunity to purchase very many seats and you have to attend via the scalper route if you want to go. Supply/Demand what's the beef?

I will not accept the arguement that going to Dodger Stadium during the season is expensive unless your determined to sit from 1st base to 3rd base and even then you can get discounts if you put forth an effort.

As with anything that involves saving money you have to be pro - active. Getting tickets these days is so much easier then it used to be for non-season ticket holders. The opportunities to score good tickets at a discount is exponentially higher with the advent of the email delivery device for season ticket holders. The non season ticket holder has a plethora of choices to get tickets via Ebay or Stubhub or Craigslist.

Sure no one is walking up to you and saying here is your ticket at 50% off of the box office price, but that is the reality if you put forth the effort.

Actually if your up to it, they do have scalpers offering tickets at 50-70% at Dodger Stadium. That is tough to do with a family in tow but for non - family people that is the way to go if you don't have tickets or a computer.

155 not completely

158 or you could apply the principle outlined in 144 above to Dodger tickets as well

158 On Goldstar.com, you can buy Baseline Box Seats for 50% off for tomorrow's Bobblehead night, it will still cost you over $200 but I believe you get to go to the new club for an inclusive buffet (I would call someone at the stadium first).

Also, they are selling some field level seats regularly priced at 75.00 for 37.50. Must buy before 11:00 a.m. tomorrow.

"Sure no one is walking up to you and saying here is your ticket at 50% off of the box office price"

HA, my corporate discount is actually 50% for some games, in some sections, and they email me the announcement every month.

135 Good thing I just activated him on my fantasy team.....

My English-Acronym, Acronym-English dictionary doesn't include an entry for "IAITHABM." FWIW, FYI.

I Apologize If This Has Already Been Mentioned

When it comes to Dodger games, I am always dependent upon the kindness of strangers. I most frequently go to games alone. Or if I go to games with people, I don't talk much.

I'm a lot more fun online for Dodger games.

When I purchase tickets for a sporting event, I aim for seats that are "pretty good." And then I just don't eat much during the game.

Phew! Just finally confirmed my backstage passes to Coachella!

167
Nice! Who do you want to see?

167 cool, were you on the phone K&B this morning who pulled over on the side of the freeway or is your wife the one wearing white pants

165 Ah. TY. NALOPKT. L8R.

Xei could probably do a better job with the odds but the weekend match ups line up to be.

Jiminez vs. Kuroda
Redman vs. Penny
Francis vs. Kuo

Offhand, I would say advantage Dodgers on Saturday, Sunday goes to Rockies, so tommorrow's game will be the one with no decided advantage as both teams have either never faced their opposing pitcher or don't have a lot of experience with that pitcher.

Aha, just as we were arguing about the relative value of attending a Dodger game, Diamond Leung points out this:

http://tinyurl.com/6dag3x

Bhsportsguy is going to end up in an L.A. tourism guide as a go-to source of free tickets, soon. I bet he's got an email from the Fodor's people in his spam trap, asking whether or not they ought to capitalize the first letter in his name.

81 You'll have to forgive me, but I heard Nancy P speaking of "greening" the earth then I heard her speak of reducing CO2 emissions. And there I was thinking that I've known, for as long as I can remember, that if you want a fertile greenhouse, you keep it hot and enriched with CO2. My favorite recent piece of scientific literature is that one piece from the NASA fellow so opposed to CO2 and any global warming. In that piece he notes that the loss of ice in the Artic and Greenland is accompanied by "rapid forestation" in northern climes that used to be permafrost and tundra. So if you want a green world, keep it hot with plenty of CO2 [anyone growing tomatoes in a greenhouse understands the point]. Oh, and amazingly enough, despite its continued deforestation, the Amazon rain forest is growing when it comes to total plant mass, since while we're busily hacking away the outer perimeter, the rain forest is getting a whole lot more dense there in the middle. Lastly, since this whole ethanol insanity and madness still rages on, well, what with corn being worth more now than wheat, some are growing less wheat, so when bread costs $5 a loaf, here's a handy startup guide for your own wheat greenhouse:

http://www.antiqbook.com/boox/pas/000615.shtml

Sorry, I lied, and so, I'm not worried about the impact of procreation, but I am worried about the impact of Nancy P and rocket scientists who've never operated a greenhouse.

And so you know, not many have their minds open and operating, and so not commented on by many is the frightening reality that for the very first time in human history the fuel and foods markets have merged. Note Toy Cannon's remark re supply and demand. So the corn will go where the money is, and that's fuel and not food, and farmers will plant what nets them the most, and that's corn and not wheat, and so we find tortilla riots in Mexico City, recent food riots in Africa, and now we have here at home:

"Rye flour stocks have been depleted in the United States, and by June or July there will be no more US rye flour to purchase, said Lee Sanders."

But that's what happens when humans not using their cerebral cortex for its intended purpose fail to understand that CO2 in the atmosphere means aerial fertilization for plants and a much greener earth.

171. My guess is the Dodgers will be favored in the Kuroda game as well. I will run a prelim sim (2500 games) on it with a swag at what the lineup might be (as if there is a set lineup) and report back. After 115 games it's oscillating between 55-60% win probability for LA. vr, Xei

168 The Verve, Prince, Animal Collective, Black Lips, Breeders, Portishead and Stephen Malkmus, mainly. I'd also like to catch Hot Chip, MGMT, Murs, Kraftwerk, Islands, Akron Family, Battles, Mum, Goldfrapp, The Teenagers, Aesop Rock, Little Brother, M.I.A., Yo! Majesty, Holy (Rule 1 violation, starts with F), Rogue Wave, Man Man and I think that's it.

174/175- Rule five is important.

174 175
No one around these parts should say an unkind word about Nancy Bea.

175/178 - Um, well, I'll leave it for now if no one's gonna freak out about it.

I'm gonna worry about tonight's game, first, but I think the summation of the Rockies' series sounds about right. Hope Kuroda is sharper this time around.

Speaking of greenhouse gases, I shouldn't have had that tofu and garlic salad for lunch. Or at least, I should've worked at home today.

177
I do not know most of the bands playing but the one group I would really want to see is Battles.

177 Portishead's first - and maybe only? - live performance in years is also pretty exciting, potentially. I'm jealous!

172 How do they figure out affordability? Is it just based on average ticket price? Do they factor in average income and cost of living in that particular city?

I'm not asking you, per se, but It's the first thing that popped into my mind, I didn't see it explained where they said they would explain their methodology.

b'wha did 174 say. at least tell me who posted it.

174 and 175 were a double post.

thanks Bob

mac, was just an accidental duplicate, same as 175.

Hey, I hope the Dodgers have that gnome handy again tonight.

I hope the Dodgers have that gnome handy again tonight

Should we spell his name "Gnomear" or "Gnomar"...?

184- I didn't, either. But Xeifrank is quoted on the Dodger specific page, so it's not a total loss.

189 Tee-hee.

Gnome-an is an island.

189- Kevin Kennedy made that joke, last night, on the post game show. The guy who's married to Wally George's daughter couldn't stop laughing about it.

re. D4P's posts and 175

personally I find the discussion fascinating. is it possible to have an educational discussion without it becomming ugly. I do think it's possible to have these things discussed without violating the rules.

Should we spell his name "Gnomear" or "Gnomar"...?

I'll stick with Gomar

Roberto Duran: "Gnomeas! Gnomeas!"

144 Man, I miss drive-ins. Trunks could accomodate a whole gaggle of kids in the '70's.

191 He's a peninsula.

193 I think the groundwork has been laid for that discussion turning ugly which is why no one wants to touch it.

169 LOL, neither. My girlfriend's dad owns a staging company. He's been building stuff for Pink Floyd/Roger Waters for years.

182 I like Battles, too.

183 You got to see Dinosaur Jr. and Pavement's prime years, stop complaining. ; )

On the coachella front (not going this year, too poor), you may want to check out:

Les Savy Fav (best show I've ever seen. dude is absolutely nuts), Spankrock (if ye be a fan of MIA and dance-tastic hip hop),Jens Lekman (magnetic fields inspired pop),swell season (the people from the "once" movie. lead singer of the frames, put on a wonderful show here at the wiltern a while back),My Morning Jacket (just youtube their performance on conan and it should be understood), diplo (dj behind MIA, among other things. also her boyfriend), the national (pitchfork fodder, but very fun live.),kate nash

I have about 8 or so per day that i would have had circled, but those would be "tier 1" for me.

A double attribution from LA Observed who took it from the NY Times, subsitute Dodger Paradise (or whatever name they give it for The Grove) and see if you agree with the writer's premise.

The first time you go to the Grove, the immensely successful and completely fabricated commercial center in Los Angeles, you will try to hate it. But then you will watch the old-fashioned trolley passing by, or the dancing fountain as it splurts jovially to the cadence of a Sinatra song, and you will drop your snobby urban integrity and walk around consuming things in a mouth-breathing stupor just like everyone else....

The Grove is everything that is horrible and spectacular about our brand-saturated American lives. It's a living version of every pretentious theory you may have read back in grad school: a facsimile of a space, a scripted zone, a generic city, a vituperative quote by Baudrillard or Deleuze. But it's also totally great!

see you in 3 years, Wesley Snipes

198 too bad.

"McCourt challenged civic leaders to follow his $500-million investment by extending bus and subway lines to the ballpark."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/baseball/mlb/dodgers/la-sp-stadium25apr25,1,5237467.story

202 I thought he worked something out

199 yeah, but does your girlfriend wear white pants...oh nevermind.

When these renovations are complete, Dodger Stadium will be nicknamed....

"Lambo Field"

You heard it here first.

192 Wait, WHAT! Who's married to the daughter of Wally George?

I remember the Wally George when the head guy from KNAC came on to defend heavy metal music. Absolutely classic show, imo. He truly was the best at interrupting people mid-argument.

Supposed to be around 101 in Indio this weekend. Nothing is worth seeing in that heat.

208- Rebecca De Mornay, whose husband is Patrick O'Neal.

209 101 is nothing. second year i went the !!! played in 116 heat.

204 That's a good start. I mentioned in the last thread that I'd be willing to represent Metro in mock-negotiations. So I'll start with this. Metro is $2 billion in the hole.

209 211 - I went to the first Coachella, which was in September or early October, and it was at least 109. But it was manageable if you had plenty of water. It was also hilarious on account of Morrisey was one of the headliners, so there were a lot of kids in black velvet and heavy makeup in that heat.

Tonight's lineup:

Furcal, SS
Jones, CF
Garciaparra, 3B
Kent, 2B
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
Ethier, LF
Kemp, RF
Billingsley, P

Yeah, that is a really weird lineup there.

210 They divorced in 2002.

old up top, young on the back end. It's like the mullet of lineups. business/ party.

Apologies if this has been discussed already, but I don't understand how Billingsley can be described like this:

Sure, for every Felix Hernandez there's a Dan Meyer, for every Cole Hamels a Chad Billingsley and for every Tim Lincecum a Homer Bailey, but Scherzer's unflinching composure and otherworldly stuff will take fantasy owners "Beyond Thunderdome" sometime this year.

http://tinyurl.com/5kktzk

Look at it this way: How often in Dodger history have we had such a potent #8 hitter?

Or such a weak #3 hitter, on the other hand?

208 My favorite Wally George show was when Michael Benner, from the Impact show on KLOS, stormed off the set.

I once called in to Benner's show on KPFK and brought that up, and he said `Oh, don't remind me'.

200 Yeah, Diplo can rock a party. I've only heard a few songs from MMJ and LSF. I'd also like to see Cut Copy and A-Trak+Kid Sister, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to withstand Sunday for the latter.

209 No comprendo.

210 Ah.

216 Hah hah!

Oh well, at least Nomar does seem to be swinging the bat okay these days. My guess is he'll sit at least one of the Rockies games, too. In general, let's count our blessings, the people in that line-up overall are who I want in the line-up.

Always good to get those low-OBP guys near the top of the lineup.

Also nice to have a power hitter in front of the pitcher, especially one with little discipline. That way, he'll get more pitches outside the zone to chase. And if he does draw a walk, the pitcher can bunt him over to second, and it'll be as if he hit a double...!

215- The unimpeachable arbiter of all human knowledge (wikipedia) doesn't mention that, so, I don't recognize the divorce. I'm not going to remember Patrick O'Neal's name, ever, probably. But I'll try to remember to call him Wally George's daughter's ex-husband.

at least Nomar does seem to be swinging the bat okay these days

How Nomar has swung the bat over the last 7 days:

.150/.227/.300/.527

219 Did you see the epic showdown between Rick "The Sleaze" Deez and Wally George?

At least Pierre doesn't much anymore.

I'm sure he wants to be traded.

LA Times, 7/8/2005

"Patrick O'Neal is a father himself, sharing custody of daughters Sophia, 7, and Veronica, 4, with actress Rebecca De Mornay."

223 It was on IMDB. But you're right, there is something inherently comic about the tag Wally George's daughter's ex-husband :)

224 numbers shmumbers

Tonight's lineup is arguably made out in inverse order of actual effectiveness as a hitter, if you start with Furcal and go backwards. (Of course, you have to skip the pitcher for this to work.)

Stop the madness.

217 I think the author is implying that the subject of the article is overshadowed by a more famous counter part but is still great in his own right, just like Chad Billingsley or Homer Bailey.

I think.

171. My simulator came up with a win probability of 57.88% (for the Dodgers, Pierre not starting) for the Jimenez v Kuroda game. vr, Xei

If anyone is going to the LA Times Festival of books on Sunday, here's an author you could meet:

2:00 PM
Danica McKellar
Author, "Math Doesn't Suck"

213 Yikes. Torre's revolving door lineups are becoming annoying. Andruw Jones in the 2 spot to snap out of a slump? How does that work?

Wesley Snipes gets 3 years in prison*.

The document says Snipes shipped millions of dollars to accounts in Switzerland, Antigua and the Isle of Man to avoid taxes.

The Isle of Man...?

*Not sure whether white collar resort or FPMITA.

219 No, I didn't, but i can only imagine.

This is just me man, but the bottom line (for me) if the team is really good I ain't gonna care to much about forking over extra cash (I only go a few times a year anyway) & judging on previous tendencies from the McCourts they do seem to care about winning. if your a true baseball fan & the team is doing really really well (I'm talking about world series fever well) I GUARANTEE you guys will be at the ball park as well.

235 - Oh, you know I mentioned that already.

Wesley Snipes deserves at least three years in prison for "Passenger 57" alone.

237 I figured he'd spent his millions on drugs when I saw him in that exercise thingamjigger infomercial.

I can't even successfully differentiate between Patrick O'Neal and the other guy who has about the same job, except he's usually in the studio, not at the game. White, thirty/forty-something, nondescript, never played the game. They all look alike to me.

237

wow, that's still going on? I remember reading about that 2 or 3 years ago.

Dude that shucks, I've never seen Saito swing a bat & I heard he finally got up to he plate yesterday (I fell flat a sleep) hopefully another opportunity will come.

243
Jim Watson is the other guy. He has darker hair than Patrick O'Neal.

244 He didn't swing at anything if it makes you feel better.

& like others have mentioned I have the option of parking outside still.

The Haren trade looks awesome right now for Oakland. Everyone they got (with the exception of Cunningham, who's injured) is producing good numbers in the system or for the big club.

220 grats on the tix. I'm too much of a fogey (not old) to be excited about all-day festivals in extreme heat.

the Black Lips for a crowd that big could either be the best thing ever, or just depressing.

MMJ's last record was pretty good. Kinda like if the Flaming Lips (Yoshimi era) crossed with more of a classic rock band. Never seen them, but I think it would be worth my time.

Get the Night Marchers record yet?

Old friend Brett Tomko off to a rough start tonight.

249 My friend's the Crystal Antlers opened for the Night Marchers last month!

251 Yikes. ..friend's band

220 249 - Also, Sharon Jones & the Dap-Kings are phenomenal if you like Soul & Funk (as in James Brown & Aretha Franklin).

Chef recommends.

251 ah, Long Beach band, eh? They've played with a lot of my friends and they are on that new Trust Us - Fidotrust Comp.

241

He also exposed us to that weird hair do in "Judge Dredd"

220 (coachella et al) My Morning Jacket is quite incredible live, i'd say easily better than on record. Youtube can be your friend here (i'll again stres the conan performance). Their new record (coming out in a couple of months) is pretty good after a few listens.

Also, if you're a fan of aesop/mia/diplo, i will would earmark Spank Rock if you can. Possibly my favorite hip hop record over the last few years, and apparently better live.

James McDonald scheduled to pitch at 5:05.

257
PDT?

224 I was more just thinking of past few days. It's not super impressive either, but not that bad. 3 for 12 with 4 RBI's and a homer. Still, I'd bat him like 7th or so if it were me.

258 - Yes, Pre-Dodgers Tonight.

I think Mayor Tony was asking Frank the Parking King if there was a place where Mirthala Salinas could open some sort of business in the new Dodgers pavilion and where would it be.

I've got to jump in on 175 and point to a really cool article on "cellulosic ethanol", which holds the promise of making fuel from waste products, from corn husks to trash, at $1/gallon:

http://www.wired.com/cars/energy/news/2008/01/ethanol23

This article also contains some good links on this topic:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/4260296.html?series=19

There is a possibility that we could have ethanol-based fuels using organic waste or non-food crops instead of corn.

262
There is a possibility that we could have ethanol-based fuels using organic waste

Whatever you say Doc Brown.

Isn't tonight going to be a potential DVR meltdown?

I've read that ethanol has its own special blend of carcinogenic exhaust. So while it may save us from oil dependency it will possibly kill us in its own subtle way.

At this point in time, ethanol is a net energy loser. It takes more energy to produce than it contains.

264

I double check all scheduled recordings and I am glad I did. The Office was being skipped for some reason. Problem avoided.

265

Doesn't everything do that to us now?

And if you insist on using disposable cups, now some are made with corn and biodegradable!

Lost is now on at 10 (PDT!) right? Just want to make sure.

I have no soccer game tonight so I shall be on media overload, like most of you I'm sure.

268
The hotel I stayed at in Kauai had forks made of potatoes.

I did not eat the forks.

269
10:02 to be precise.

271 My Tivo hates the new odd start and end times for some shows on NBC and ABC. Or rather, doesn't always acknowledge it.

I know a few people who could be described as net energy losers.

270 Why not? You ate the freakin' poi.

Two new posts up top.