Baseball Toaster: Dodger Thoughts : Dodgers Plan Six-Man Rotation Once Kuroda Returns

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Dodgers Plan Six-Man Rotation Once Kuroda Returns

2008-06-26 12:49

by Jon Weisman

From Ken Gurnick at MLB.com:

After Eric Stults' complete-game shutout Wednesday night, the Dodgers manager said he would go to a six-man rotation until the All-Star break just to keep Stults in it. ...

He said a sixth starter would allow an extra day of rest for hard-throwers Kershaw and Chad Billingsley, as well as pitcher Hiroki Kuroda, who is expected to return from the disabled list to the rotation next week. Torre said the idea stems from the fact that the Dodgers play 20 consecutive days leading to the All-Star break. When Kuroda returns to the rotation, Chan Ho Park will return to long relief.

Torre said the rotation would be re-evaluated for the resumption of play after the break, depending in part on the uncertain return of Brad Penny from the disabled list.

It's an interesting notion. I have no idea whether the extra rest will help or hurt in the short run, though I expect it could help in the long run. I wonder if any starting pitchers would thrown an inning of relief here or there.

Update: The return of Kuroda would give the Dodgers six starters with Park in the rotation. The return of Penny, whenever that comes, would then push Park to the bullpen.

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Comments (677)

Show/Hide Comments 1-50

2008-06-26 12:54:43

1. larry slimfast

It's the Dodgers version of the Price is Right Showcase Showdown. What are you gonna bid for one of these guys?

2008-06-26 12:55:21

2. larry slimfast

It's the Dodgers version of the Price is Right Showcase Showdown. What are you gonna bid for one of these guys?

2008-06-26 12:55:30

3. okdodge

0 I like the idea, extra rest usually sounds like a good idea. If for nothing else, it keeps Kershaw's arm more rested for next year.

2008-06-26 12:55:40

4. larry slimfast

oops

2008-06-26 12:55:41

5. MonkeyBlue

Sigh... Young and Pierre in the outfield... what a combination.

2008-06-26 12:56:17

6. underdog

Crud, did Pee Wee's muff cost a run or would he have scored anyway? That was actually a nice piece of hitting there, was not a bad pitch.

2008-06-26 12:56:39

7. KG16

I'm all for it if it means the starters can go longer into games. If not, I don't see how it helps. I'd prefer a five man rotation with a spot starter every couple of times through the rotation, if every starter is going 5 or 6 innings, more flexibility later in the games.

2008-06-26 12:57:49

8. bhsportsguy

I can't see a six-man rotation without Penny coming back if Park is returning to pen when Kuroda comes back next week.

2008-06-26 12:58:29

9. Jon Weisman

7 - That's kind of what I find intriguing. On the one hand, it might mess up a pitcher like Lowe, who seems to need frequent work to keep his timing. But on the other hand, could it help someone like Billingsley?

2008-06-26 12:58:32

10. MonkeyBlue

Martin with a great play.

2008-06-26 12:58:39

11. scooplew

This game has the makings of a scenario I have seen too often this season. We fall behind slightly at the beginning, we waste several scoring opportunities, and we get crushed near the end. I hope that I am wrong.

2008-06-26 12:58:58

12. underdog

Oh and I don't think the 6 man thing is such a bad idea. Especially because I think Kershaw could use a little more rest and it seems like the other guys do better on an extra day, too. Or at any rate, it seems worth a try, gives them more flexibility.

Wow, Russell's a stud over there today.

2008-06-26 12:59:07

13. bhsportsguy

7 Probably doesn't change anything like that, I mean they are not going allow anyone to throw 130 pitches.

2008-06-26 12:59:30

14. Jon Weisman

8 - Yeah, you're right. Something doesn't add up?

2008-06-26 13:00:21

15. Jon Weisman

And then there's the question of whether Kershaw stays in the rotation as well.

2008-06-26 13:00:33

16. bhsportsguy

Oh and now we have seen the dreaded runner tagging up from first on a flyball to the left.

2008-06-26 13:01:25

17. bhsportsguy

I guess Quentin avoided a Steve Yeager moment there.

2008-06-26 13:01:29

18. El Lay Dave

I don't get it, who are the six starters? The current rotation is, in no particular order:

Lowe, His Royal Thighness, Stults, Kershaw, Park.

If "When Kuroda returns to the rotation, Chan Ho Park will return to long relief", that's still FIVE starters. Given the Penny comment, he isn't the sixth guy.....

Wait....could it be... Hong-Chih KUO?

2008-06-26 13:02:40

19. bhsportsguy

18 No way, he needs to be saved for multiple tag team opportunities.

2008-06-26 13:03:18

20. Andrew Shimmin

18- Looks to me like Russ Martin is going to get a chance to take the mound.

Finally.

2008-06-26 13:03:36

21. bryanf

Yeah, the math is messed up. Maybe they mean the sixth starter will also be in the bullpen...Park? Weird.

2008-06-26 13:03:36

22. El Lay Dave

Is that right - 48 pitches for Kershaw in 3 IP despite the seven baserunners?

2008-06-26 13:03:40

23. Xeifrank

Perhaps if Guo was given another start, Torre could then implement a 7 man rotation.
vr, Xei

2008-06-26 13:04:04

24. LoneStar7

20 hahaha

2008-06-26 13:04:06

25. bryanf

20 I thought he was looking to play SS first...

2008-06-26 13:04:08

26. underdog

18 I believe it meant those five guys plus Kuroda when he returns. I think they still want Kuo to pitch long relief.

And by gum we'll probably see him today!

16 I think he would've tagged up and gone to third no matter who was out there, that was pretty deep. Oh, well, yeah he could've just thrown to 2nd. Hrm.

2008-06-26 13:04:28

27. Jon Weisman

18 - I've taken down my personal Penny comment. I think something got lost in the translation. Gonna see if I can find out.

2008-06-26 13:04:48

28. bhsportsguy

22 He had a 6 pitch first inning.

2008-06-26 13:05:01

29. underdog

Oh wait, yeah if Park goes back to relief at that point... hmm... I don't know. Does. Not. Compute.

2008-06-26 13:05:22

30. Neal Pollack

We had best cash this one in...

2008-06-26 13:05:35

31. Bob Timmermann

Six-man rotations are the norm in Japan. Kuroda shouldn't have trouble with it.

2008-06-26 13:05:36

32. KG16

13 - why not if they get an extra day of rest? Isn't part of the pitch count theory tied to rest for the pitcher between starts? If a guy gets 5 days (or 6 with a scheduled off day) between starts, why wouldn't that allow him to throw 20-35 more pitches per outing?

2008-06-26 13:05:56

33. underdog

The Rabbit and Bison on the basepaths again! Let's not DP here, Dodgers.

2008-06-26 13:06:23

34. LoneStar7

ok no more wasting opportunities!

2008-06-26 13:06:36

35. Xeifrank

31. So is throwing 200+ pitches in a High School game.
vr, Xei

2008-06-26 13:06:49

36. El Lay Dave

28 Oh, right, the GIDP helped there too.

2008-06-26 13:07:32

37. MonkeyBlue

Oh Russel, what a wasted at bat.

2008-06-26 13:08:16

38. bhsportsguy

Russell that's two bad at bats and now you have Mr. Double Play up, Matt better being going.

And I love James Loney so I am just being a little worried in this situation.

0-4 with RISP.

2008-06-26 13:08:40

39. El Lay Dave

Send Kemp with Loney up!

2008-06-26 13:10:33

40. MonkeyBlue

hahahhahahhahahhahahhahahhahahhaha

2008-06-26 13:10:41

41. Andrew Shimmin

Last night I watched the first couple of episodes of a show called The Wire. I think it was on HBO, or something. Anyway, don't know if you guys have heard of it, but it's pretty terrific.

2008-06-26 13:10:52

42. bryanf

Did somebody say Shawn Green? I heard Mr. Double Play and got confused...

2008-06-26 13:11:12

43. underdog

No comment. James.. mumble... mumble...

2008-06-26 13:11:19

44. KG16

I'm wondering if rather than having a set rotation, would having, say 7 starters on a roster and running them out based on match ups and rest be a workable idea?

Say, Lowe gets to go out every five or six days, Billingly and/or Kershaw occasionally gets pushed back a day, and so on. Would that be workable? Sort of having 7 guys as spot starters?

2008-06-26 13:11:31

45. bryanf

Wow I guess he is Mr. DP

2008-06-26 13:11:32

46. Gagne55

33 As you were saying....

2008-06-26 13:11:55

47. underdog

Maybe Russell gets distracted when he plays third and his offense suffers after all. Nah.

2008-06-26 13:12:14

48. bryanf

41 Everyone I've talked to says that. I guess I should jump on the bandwagon...

2008-06-26 13:12:20

49. bhsportsguy

44 Pitchers are creatures of habit, especially starters, they have their workouts and throw days all based on when they will pitch.

2008-06-26 13:12:33

50. fanerman

{Sigh}

Show/Hide Comments 51-100

2008-06-26 13:12:52

51. Jon Weisman

44 - As long as we're spitballing, there are some who believe that tag-teaming four pairs of pitchers is the way to go. It'd be like the Park-Kuo combo, times four.

2008-06-26 13:13:17

52. Gen3Blue

You know things aren't going our way when twice we get the first two on and Martin makes an unproductive first out, and they get their leadoff man on every inning.

2008-06-26 13:13:32

53. LoneStar7

I think im gonna step away for a bit...thats just disgusting baseball all around

2008-06-26 13:13:54

54. Bluebleeder87

thanks for the sportsline recomendation BrianF it's a little better than Yahoo, like the other person said it ain't to good..(Yahoo gameday)

2008-06-26 13:14:26

55. underdog

I think today may be a Kuoshaw day, actually.

2008-06-26 13:14:31

56. Gen3Blue

I'm afraid it may be time to tag-team Clay.

2008-06-26 13:15:23

57. Gen3Blue

55 you know what they say about great minds...

2008-06-26 13:15:29

58. KG16

49 - ok, I'll give you that. But I would think that the manager/pitching coach would be able to figure out when guys would be going a week or two in advance, based on the schedule and match ups.

2008-06-26 13:15:32

59. underdog

In fact the whole Dodger rotation could be tag teamed with:

Kuowe.
Chan Kuo Park.
Kuoshaw.
Kuoults.
Hong Chillingsley.

2008-06-26 13:16:02

60. Bob Timmermann

The problems you can run into is that a pitcher like Lowe and pitcher like Kuroda have had entirely different preparation regimes during their careers.

2008-06-26 13:16:05

61. MonkeyBlue

Lucky that single wasn't hit to Pierre.

2008-06-26 13:16:14

62. underdog

In fact...

2008-06-26 13:16:20

63. sporky

40 I fail to get the punchline.

2008-06-26 13:17:17

64. Andrew Shimmin

Danny Ardoin: He ain't Gary Bennett!

2008-06-26 13:17:41

65. underdog

WHOA. I thought that was gonna be a triple play for a second!

2008-06-26 13:17:50

66. bhsportsguy

Wow, that's sound almost as impossible as the double play last Friday.

2008-06-26 13:18:00

67. MonkeyBlue

63. That was me going insane. No joke intended.

2008-06-26 13:18:05

68. Bluebleeder87

53 well I guess I'm not watching this gem. They were down 2 runs last I checked.

2008-06-26 13:18:11

69. sporky

Kuo-time!

2008-06-26 13:18:12

70. JoeyP

That was awful baserunning all around.

2008-06-26 13:18:48

71. underdog

Bennett would've thrown it to the pitcher for the first time ever right at that moment.

2008-06-26 13:19:42

72. fanerman

Wow. GIDP on bunt!

2008-06-26 13:19:53

73. LoneStar7

how did the runner not go on the bunt?

2008-06-26 13:20:22

74. underdog

Yay. Public Enemy #1!

2008-06-26 13:20:46

75. LoneStar7

ok that may be the change in events that gives me hope for this game...please bats come to life

2008-06-26 13:20:48

76. Vaudeville Villain

As badly as this game has been played on our part, we're still only down two runs and have been getting runners on base pretty consistently.

2008-06-26 13:20:58

77. bhsportsguy

73 Sounds like he was looked back but with Hall at first, Ardoin had time to throw to second and then still got the runner at first.

2008-06-26 13:21:07

78. regfairfield

Any team that makes an effort to keep Eric Stults in their rotation deserves terrible things to happen to them.

2008-06-26 13:21:09

79. underdog

73 It was a terrible bunt, right in front of the plate. And he thought it was foul at first so he didn't even run for the first few seconds.

2008-06-26 13:21:11

80. bryanf

54 No problem. It's definitely not as bad as Yahoo, though sometimes CBSSportsline bothers me too... I've really never had much luck with Gameday.

I think I really need to just get a freaking Slingbox, though I imagine I'd have some trouble getting it through the firewall at my work.

2008-06-26 13:21:28

81. Linkmeister

Gameday is confused. It went from Ramirez doubles, no out, to Cabrera strikes out, three outs. Good thing there's television today for me.

2008-06-26 13:23:16

82. sporky

Andy!

2008-06-26 13:23:25

83. bhsportsguy

Nice one Andy, and the streak continues.

2008-06-26 13:23:38

84. LoneStar7

77 79 thanks, and thats pretty amazing, hopefully that jump starts us

2008-06-26 13:23:46

85. GobiasIndustries

I could care less if we had a 10 man rotation. Pitching is not our concern. In fact the pitching is one of the only reasons I continue to punish myself by watching these "games", and I use that term loosely, the past month or so. It's these lame attempts at at bats that are driving me to drink. This lack of offense is what needs to be improved as if I'm not stating the obvious. I'm tired of hearing about how the young guys are too impatient or how as soon as blah blah blah overpriced veteran comes off the DL this and that is going to happen. Just hit. Please. I'm not asking for HR's and power displays, but just hit and for the love of all things holy give us a CHANCE to win some games.

2008-06-26 13:23:50

86. Andrew Shimmin

If Martin were playing 3B for the White Sox, too, LaRoche would have been out.

2008-06-26 13:24:08

87. underdog

Andy down the line!

Okay, lead off runner on, again.

/sweat

2008-06-26 13:24:25

88. MonkeyBlue

Let see if they cash it in.

2008-06-26 13:24:36

89. Jon Weisman

78 - I'm going to have to disagree with you. I don't believe that Stults has a long career ahead of him, but he has shown flashes of ability for a couple of years, and has now been pitching the best ball of his life at a year you'd expect him to peak at. He has been striking out batters and keeping them off base in Las Vegas. I wouldn't sign him to a long-term contract, but what is there about him that says he isn't good enough to be in a major-league rotation in 2008?

2008-06-26 13:25:37

90. Andrew Shimmin

He's good enough to be in the rotation, he's just not good enough to come up with zany strategeries for keeping him in it.

2008-06-26 13:25:49

91. Jon Weisman

89 - Or at least until the scouting reports catch up with him, which might take a few more starts (i.e., into the All-Star Break)?

2008-06-26 13:26:13

92. sporky

From TJ: Ivan DeJesus Jr. named to the Futures Game.

2008-06-26 13:27:03

93. Doctor

can we get a fly ball here?

2008-06-26 13:27:29

94. El Lay Dave

DY with the productive out, but right at the edge of the black hole.

2008-06-26 13:28:16

95. Vaudeville Villain

Haha, wow, we almost blew it again.

2008-06-26 13:28:16

96. regfairfield

89 He might be good enough to be in one, just not in ours. If you could, you would run your best pitcher out there every day, and every pitcher you use in front of him makes your best pitcher throw less and less innings.

Then again, this is a way to limit Kershaw and Bills' innings, so there is some benifit. I just like the tag team system better.

2008-06-26 13:28:30

97. MonkeyBlue

Dodgers got lucky right there.

2008-06-26 13:28:39

98. underdog

Huh. Okay, I thought GrampBerroa had a basehit there. Oh well.

2008-06-26 13:28:56

99. bhsportsguy

96 It might be moot if Penny doesn't come back next week.

2008-06-26 13:29:26

100. Jon Weisman

96 - Who do you like better as a starter, Stults or Park?

Show/Hide Comments 101-150

2008-06-26 13:29:51

101. Jon Weisman

Can someone describe the Berroa play?

2008-06-26 13:30:14

102. underdog

92 Nice!

2008-06-26 13:30:30

103. LoneStar7

I wish I were watching this game...grandpa wesley reaches, laroche doesn't go, and there was no error on the play?

2008-06-26 13:30:36

104. Neal Pollack

Nice backhanded play by Danks, he threw to third, and LaRoche was safe.

2008-06-26 13:30:41

105. underdog

Would you pinch hit for Kershaw now, or too early? since he seems not long for this world anyway...

2008-06-26 13:31:14

106. regfairfield

100 Stults, but you could put almost any other name in there against the Chanitor and I'd go with them.

2008-06-26 13:31:19

107. Neal Pollack

It's sad...we get a leadoff double, and I'll be surprised if he scores.

2008-06-26 13:31:48

108. Vaudeville Villain

101

Basically, with LaRoche at third, Berroa hit a meek comebacker to the mound which Danks dropped. LaRoche leaked off third and Danks tried to throw him out, but failed. This allowed Berroa to reach.

And we blew it anyway.

2008-06-26 13:31:50

109. Andrew Shimmin

Danks is also not Gary Bennett.

2008-06-26 13:32:07

110. Linkmeister

Oh, crap. It's just not our day.

2008-06-26 13:32:14

111. underdog

Um. What the...? Sheesh.

2008-06-26 13:33:33

112. Vaudeville Villain

The level of suck in the black hole is unprecedented. It sucks so bad, it even made it so that Kershaw will lead off the next inning.

2008-06-26 13:33:40

113. scareduck

101 - bounced into Danks' glove, he tried for an out at third while he was pointed that way, and didn't get it.

2008-06-26 13:33:52

114. fanerman

Line DP? What happened?

2008-06-26 13:33:54

115. bhsportsguy

0-8 with RISP, 0-4 with a runner on 3B with less than 2 out.

2008-06-26 13:33:58

116. scooplew

With fewer than two outs, freeze on a line drive...One of baseball's oldest warnings...

2008-06-26 13:34:04

117. El Lay Dave

Ooof lineout DP. Time for a meeting. I guess I'll only know later if that's a good or bad thing.

2008-06-26 13:34:19

118. JoeyP

Error on Berroa.

2008-06-26 13:34:22

119. Doctor

sueeze play? something? anyone? this is pretty terrible.

2008-06-26 13:34:30

120. MonkeyBlue

Wow, just wow. Watching Dodgers games are not good for your health.

Angel! you bum.

2008-06-26 13:34:44

121. bhsportsguy

112 Umm, Martin and Loney are 0-4 with RISP.

2008-06-26 13:34:56

122. Neal Pollack

PLEASE get healthy soon, Furcal. Shameful.

2008-06-26 13:34:59

123. El Lay Dave

The level of suck in the black hole is unprecedented.

By definition!

2008-06-26 13:35:27

124. scareduck

78 - Stults has his value, but not if you long-term him. This year -- heck, yesterday -- could be his high-water mark.

2008-06-26 13:36:06

125. Andrew Shimmin

119- Liner, looked like it was headed up the middle; Danks leapt up to stab it, and threw to first getting Berroa.

2008-06-26 13:36:23

126. dzzrtRatt

that's the Berroa we were told we'd see. He danced around that ball as if it were screwed into the ground.

2008-06-26 13:36:28

127. JoeyP

121--I think Vaudeville is referring to the entire season, not just 1 game.

Yes, Martin & Loney are 0-4 today.

That doesnt take away from the black hole of suckitude that is Ardoin/Berroa/Pitcher/Pierre.

2008-06-26 13:36:36

128. underdog

Kershaw's not getting much help. And he's not helping himself much either.

2008-06-26 13:36:38

129. cargill06

would it really cost us more to have laroche play SS and take whatever happens on defense?

2008-06-26 13:37:09

130. Jon Weisman

119 - Sometimes, bad things happen even with good efforts. Did the last man up not hit what should have been an RBI single? Or was it not hit that hard?

2008-06-26 13:37:31

131. dzzrtRatt

as if it was screwed into the ground. Sorry.

2008-06-26 13:38:03

132. Andrew Shimmin

129- Or have Martin play SS, LaRoche and DeWitt at 3B and 2B.

2008-06-26 13:38:07

133. bigcpa

Yesterday Steiner said Quentin bounces at the plate like he's riding an imaginary donkey.

2008-06-26 13:38:33

134. Jon Weisman

Okay, it appears the answer to the six-man riddle is that Park returns to the bullpen after both Kuroda and Penny return.

2008-06-26 13:38:40

135. Indiana Jon

132 Would Kent catch?

2008-06-26 13:39:28

136. underdog

If I knew the theme to "Growing Pains" I'd hum it right now.

Fortunately, I don't.

2008-06-26 13:39:42

137. sporky

133 Imaginary donkey. Awesome.

2008-06-26 13:40:07

138. Andrew Shimmin

135- Ardoin would catch. I'm just talking about today. I really want to see Martin at SS.

And Pitcher.

2008-06-26 13:40:18

139. &