Wow. That Camden Yards review makes want to hop on a plane. Great stuff. I know--I mean, I know--that someone here is going to knock it out of the park for Dodger Stadium.

Camden Yards in my favorite stadium that I have been to. I have not been to that many outside California though.

An article on Eugene from ESPN:

http://tinyurl.com/5egzpk

Camden Yards is great, and eases the pain of losing Memorial Stadium. The thing is, however, if you went to Memorial Stadium, you (and all those around you) were obviously there to see a ballgame. With Camden Yards, people go for the experience of being there. The new National Stadium is also quite wonderful but, likewise, there was only one reason to go to RFK.

In high school a friend and I drove from Toronto down to Baltimore to watch a game during Camden Yards' inaugural season. We bought standing room tickets. The thing I remember most about the stadium was that the bullpens were right below the standing room concourse - it was such a thrill to see Dennis Eckersley at the height of his powers warming up no more than twenty feet away from me.

Robothal has us in on Sabathia:

http://tinyurl.com/65za3o

McDonald, Hu and LaRoche. I'm leery of bailing on LaRoche would prefer to move DeWitt instead, but the Indians aren't fools. They want upside.

Apologies if this has already been covered...
bluto

The Dodgers are playing the Giants and Fox decided not to pick up the telecast. :(

"We're more open-minded about who we might have to move than we were in the past..." Colletti said in today's LAT article. I'm telling you, a disastrous team-ruining trade of epic proportions, something along the lines of Matt Kemp for Jack Wilson, is coming. The MSM is behind Colletti, and most fans don't care.

Also, I loved how Torre said that Andruw Jones is "still rehabbing," and that Sweeney still has something left. Management really doesn't know what it's doing.

This is great. The offense starts clicking again against a decent pitcher that doesn't play for the Reds, and now we have to deal with this crap in the paper.

I hate Frank McCourt.

7 The Yankees-Red Sox juggernaut can not be stopped

6 Indeed. See previous thread.

As i said there, I really don't understand the Sabathia rumors at all. Assuming they're even true, which with Rosenthal you never know. But the last thing the Dodgers need is additional pitching unless they're planning on trading one of their current front line starters. And as I said, too, I really like Jack Wilson but don't trust Ned at all to be anything other than fleeced in a trade for him. (I would almost be willing to give up one sort of top prospect for him but none of the "kids" currently on the team.) Better still is to just see how Nomar does. And maybe call up Hu or DeJesus at some point to spell Nomar a couple days a week.

Ned can't be dumb enough to trade Kemp can he? No reason to fill the hole at SS by creating a bigger hole in the OF right? The only way Kemp's gone is if someone like Bay or Nady is also included in the deal.

Vin would be happy with Jack Wilson, but I think that's because he's met his parents. Vin loves every player if he's met his players. He likes Ethier's parents.

13 - He's not and even if Ned wanted to trade Kemp he'd have to convince a lot of people in the organization that it's the right idea. I don't think any of the core is in danger (Kemp, Martin, Loney, Bills, Kershaw) as well as Ethier. I don't know what to make of his willingness to trade 'one of the kids' except that we've heard it all before and it's all politics. All talk and nothing much happens. That's July in major league baseball. Rosenthal's rumors are fun to read but that's about it.

I heard somewhere that Jack Wilson's father works at the Newbury Park post office. I can't ascertain the specific source........

:-)

7
Wouldn't you rather watch a Dodgers-Giants game with Vin Scully calling the action instead of Dick Stockton or Thom Brennaman?

But this is Rivalry Weekend in the majors:
Dodgers vs Giants
Red Sox vs Yankees
Cubs vs Cardinals
Rays vs Royals

17 Or the game could be on KCAL-9 again and since I'm visiting my parents in central California I won't be able to see it :(

12 Alas, I apologize. I tried to rely on my Google-Fu, where actual gumshoe investigation would have worked.

18 Not to mention Marlins vs Rockies...

12 - I am pretty certain that Nomar will do alright at SS, as compared to others, but I am just as certain that he will get injured, so now is the time to get someone, not later, and I am thinking that it has to be someone who is not just a stop-gap, given Furcal's situation. Even if he comes back hard to imagine signing him up again at this point. Just hope that we give away the farm and not one of the so-called prospects, who are actually now contributing.

I think instead of signing another big ticket free agent Ned ought to just buy a hospital.

OT: What's the "PVL" acronym mean, as used here on DT?

Proven
Veteran
Leader

Dodgers have officially been removed from the NL West.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings

25.

Thanks. That makes a lot more sense than Pro Volleyball League, which was Google's answer.

LOL, you guys are a bunch of doomsayers. Just relax. Time and time again Ned has refused to make a trade with established youngsters. He has yet to do it. So until he does "Kemp for Wilson", gimme a break.

And mad props to my guys Kent and Ethier. They both play so hard each game and for his age, what Kent is doing is, as I recall, a first.

Yes, yes, in praise of Kent. He's the only PVL, all along, who's been able to keep up with the youngsters when they're going good. Nomar shows flashes as well, but then he pops something.

24 , 25 Or maybe in some cases--

Proven
Veteran
Liability

Sabathia makes no sense unless it also means trading Lowe or Penny for someone like Renteria. Even then, renting Sabathia makes no sense. I wish Rosenthal, and Plashke would buy a horse, ride off into the mountains and not bother anybody.

28
We're old school here. We prefer "Nattering Nabobs of Negativity."

Fortunately, I think a Gamel or LaPorta offer from the Brewers trumps most any reasonable offer LA can throw out there.

We'll never know this. But wonder how many times Torre has pondered how many more WS titles his Yankees could have won with anything near the level of pitching his Dodgers have shown...

31 Trading for Sabathia makes sense if you think that trading for him gives you a better chance to resign him.

The problem with the Dodgers in the McCourt era has always been management . When the team wins, they win in spite of them, and because circumstances forced them into playing the correct players. When they lose it's because things are as management planned. I'm not saying they plan to lose, only that they are incompetent and incapable of making the correct decisions

34 or how many he would win now with that yankee hitting

31 , 35

Or, you consider the fact that if he leaves you get the two comp picks in the draft to offset the prospects you just passed along.

bluto

This would be different: Blake DeWitt actually looks pretty slick in the field. I can see him switching to second base and I wonder how he would do at shortstop. He has some offense and Torre is in love with him; how about he and Nomar split the time at shortstop and that opens up third base for LaRoche.

37 i just realized that thats pretty much the same thing..except one scenario involves this hypothetical team coming together for the yankees, and the other involves it coming together to play for the dodgers..

all in all just ignore 37 lol..

35 Trading for CC is like any other trade. Whether or not it makes sense is largely related to what you are giving up.

The Dodgers do not have 5 starting pitchers better then CC, so obviously he could be used down the stretch.

The problem is who they give up. Again, I wouldn't give up on LaRoche. I could live with a DeWitt, McDonald and Hu trade for CC. If it takes some other lower level prospects so be it. If they want LaRoche or Kershaw or someone of that nature, you pass and let the Brewers have him. That is where it gets to the "it doesn't make sense" part.

23 - More than Ned, what would Torre do without injuries? A lot of what happens seems to be based on him running people out there who stink until they get injured and he has no choice but to play someone else.

No reason to fill the hole at SS by creating a bigger hole in the OF right?

With Pierre's belly full of guts, he'll be back on the team on his first day of eligibility.

At that point, there is no hole in the OF, if you're Joe Torre. You've got Pierre, who simply has to be out there every day, he's responsible for all the runs the Dodgers score; you've got Jones, who will turn it around any day now, he had some really good swings yesterday; and then you've got these two worthless punks to share right field, playing the game the wrong way, for the wrong reasons, in the wrong century. If one of those was sent away for a shortstop, would anybody remember by the time of Pierre's HOF induction? No.

36 When have we won in spite of ourselves in the McCourt era? Who suddenly inherited playtime and lead the team to the promised land?

I am wondering more and more if Torre and Ned are the only people in baseball that would have brought Jones back before he played at least 10 games in rehab.

Torre may have been the perfect Manager for the Yankees because the team was loaded with PVLs and he was great at dealing with the media and Steinbrenner.

Torre window of success as a Manager was a good sized window and his window of mediocrity as a Manager might be even bigger.

If I were Frank McCourt I think that I would find it interesting that Ned and Joe were blaming the Dodgers sub .500 record on youth's inexperienc and attitude while not objectively commenting on the input of Pierre, Kent, Jones, Penney, Schmidt, Nomar, Lowe, and Sweeney on the current Dodgers record.

The problem with Wilson for LaRoche is that Wilson, a good player, has no power. Among Martin, Loney, Kemp and DeWitt, there is already a shortage of power, nobody there who will hit more than 20 home runs consistently. LaRoche is still proving himself, but if he delivers on his potential, he'll be the meat of the lineup in the future. I'll just be sick if we trade that guy and he turns into a 35-40 HR hitter. The Dodgers have the hardest time finding that kind of power, and when they get it, they always seem to lose it.

I'd rather see Ned do a little-ball trade: Give up one good prospect for a decent back-up SS, better than Berroa hopefully, to spell Nomar twice a week.

What's Cesar Izturis been up to lately?

Cesar Izturis is the starting shortstop for a team that is in a playoff spot.

He has an OPS+ of 68 this season.

Basically, Izturis stands at shortstop and lets all the other guys on the Cardinals create offense.

46 The problem with Wilson for LaRoche is you're trading our number two prospect for a 30 year old shortstop best described as "decent". At best you give up a DeJesus or a Meloan for him.

Sadly, Izturis is the starting shortstop for a contending team, so he's out.

Basically, Izturis stands at shortstop and lets all the other guys on the Cardinals create offense

So, basically, Izturis has taken over for Eckstein.

Let's just hope no trades are made.

I'll go on record with respect to not opposing the idea of trading Kemp. I think the current conception of his potential is higher than what he'll actually turn out to be, which (as a general rule) would suggest that trading him is a good idea.

However, I am opposed to the idea of Ned trading Kemp, for at least three reasons.

1. Ned's motivations for trading Kemp (e.g. doesn't listen, doesn't work hard, moved trash can, etc.) are stupid.

2. I've never supported having Pierre and Jones in the outfield simultaneously (or at all, for that matter).

3. I have no confidence in Ned's ability to get something good in return for Kemp.

Ahh, Ticketmaster.

My discounted $6 infield reserve ticket for Thursday's game ended up costing me $14.10.

He's starting?

There must be someone in the wings they'd rather play than Izturis. That guy could go to the HOF as a late inning defensive replacement and/or designated shortstop for a ground ball pitcher.

17 I don't have cable right now.

52
Call Eddie Vedder.

If Laroche is fully healthy, he is just as valuable as the other established young players that we have. The only reason to deal him is if the Dodgers believe the injuries he has suffered the last couple of years are going to hamper his abilities permanently.

The Dodgers need 8 hitters that can contribute to the offense and better than that in the 3, 4, and 5 spots. Kemp may or may not ever fill the need in the 3, 4, or 5 spot but he is cheap and will qualify for one of the 8 that contributes to the offense. Good defense, great pitching, 8 contributing hitters with strength in the 3, 4, and 5 spots and the team is competitive.

41 Are you suggesting all three for Sabathia? That seems steep for someone who will only be there half a season. And as others have pinted out, right now pitching does not seem to be the biggest hole.

I think Wilson, who I agree is only decent, would be a good acquisition. I wouldn't trade kemp for him but there are more reasonable options. We would have Wilson for next year too, right? Would the Pirates take Hu or DeJesus or do they have someone already to replace Wilson?

From Tony Jackson's article from yesterday..

Although Colletti has never publicly identified any player as one he would be unwilling to trade, that list was always widely believed to include catcher Russell Martin, outfielder Matt Kemp, pitcher Clayton Kershaw and perhaps pitcher Chad Billingsley.

Perhaps? Perhaps Tony? You must really dislike Chad huh? Maybe as much as elevators..

Hu, McDonald and Laroche for Sabathia would be a heist for the Indians; especially if the Dodgers cannot re-sign CC.

58 The Pirates have nothing of any value pretty much.

OT: This new version of Firefox... Is everyone having problems with it, or am I just cursed? I tend to think it's not just me, because it's flinky on both my PCs.

Am I going to have to start using IE again?

Most frustrating thing: Refusal to go to a new URL you've typed into the address field. It just acts like you never typed it in.

Tony Jackson, the Mark Sweeney of sportswriters...

I just downloaded the new Firefox on a computer I use at work and it works very well.

The only thing I don't like is that when you bookmark something it goes into "unsorted bookmarks" and then you have to move it somewhere to be able to see it.

You would assume that as a librarian, I would try to keep all bookmarks neatly arranged. But I don't.

I seem to remember that a lot of DT regulars don't like Eckstein but it seems to me that you could probably get him for a couple of old bats and his OBP is usually in the middle .300's

59 I would hope that even Ned views Billingsley as untouchable.

I am convinced now more than ever that Kemp is going to be traded. He's going out for a PVL.

If we ask JoeNed Collettorre to rate the young players who are with us right now in order of preference, the list would start with Russell Martin. He woujld be followed by Chad Billingsley. After that, I think they would see either Loney or Ethier. That leaves LaRoche, Kemp and Delwyn Young who, in my opinion, are the most likely Dodgers to get traded before the trading deadline with Kemp heading the list. "We're so deep in young players who are learning the game, we need some guys who know how to play right now," JoeNed might say.

Because the last thing anyone would ever want to do is trade a veteran. Sacrilege to even suggest as much.

(sigh)

I swear, the next Dodger deal might determine whether I start wearing a halo cap. I won't, of course, but cripes this is frustrating.

I didn't see it mentioned here, but the Indians just signed Jeff weaver to a minor league deal. Maybe they are getting ready to unload Sabathia. :)

Getting Shortstop could be difficult for Dodgers is the Daily News headline.

Getting anything will be difficult when you broadcast that is what you want. Ned instantly puts himself in a horrible position as soon as he says that.

Morons. I've got morons on my team.

51
Great post, even though I disagree.
You guys ever play Yahtzee? It's a kinda lame dice game (my grandparents were huge Yahtzee fans, so all of us kids played a lot with them...) Anyway, the reason I bring it up is this: The best way to win at Yahtzee is to maximize the possibilities of rolling Yahtzee (5 of a kind) as often as possible. You don't always win this way; but, over time, you win more when you try for more Yahtzees. And it's why you don't trade Kemp. The possibility of him achieving his essential Yahtzeeness remains in effect, though I agree with you that it's less than even money that it'll happen. I'd argue that goes for LaRoche as well. Maybe even Loney and Billingsly. I'd keep Martin, too, because he's already a Yahtzee.

I'm really thinking that playing poker against Colletti would be easy.

He would look at his first two cards and say, "Shoot, a duece and a trey, I hope I get something better. OK, I'll raise!"

"Morons. I've got morons on my team. We don't have to worry going down the mountain. We haven't got any money coming down the mountain. When we've got the money, then you can start to sweat."

The great Strother Martin.

Ned is sweating while he's going down the mountain.

68 -

Definition of giving up on a season: signing Jeff Weaver to replace CC Sabathia

70 Yahtzee? Lame?

Damn youngun's...

Lets assume the Dodgers wanted to trade Kemp. Personally, I don't believe they do. But, lets say they want to do so. Pierre isn't coming back until after the deadline and with any injury you never really know they're coming back until they do. So, Kemp seems very safe to me.

74
i said "lame" just to seem cool. i've forced all my nephews and my kids to play yahtzee.

I still feel like the more we keep winning, the less likely a trade will be. The front office is just too fickle to not let something like a win-streak and "everybody coming back healthy" not affect their decisions.

To me, this is such a crucial time leading up to the trade deadline. We need to keep this win streak going. Nomar absolutely MUST stay healthy and play shortstop reasonably effectively. If he can do that, what holes do we have exactly? Aside from DeRoche/LaWitt, there shouldn't be any positional controversies at all.

LF - Ethier
CF - Jones
RF - Kemp
3B - DeRoche/LaWitt
SS - Nomar
2B - Kent
1B - Loney
C - Martin

That line-up probably will play regularly and will score some runs. If they can just hang in there, continue the winning, and secure 1st place, the front office should be less inclined to make a trade and more inclined to "not break up what you've got" (or however the cliche goes).

Can't see Kemp involved in a straightup deal for an SS, given the OF hole issue. I am thinking that if we are dealing with the Pirates for Wilson and it involves Kemp, Bay would have to be in the package. For myself, I might be willing to lose Pee Wee (bite my tongue)if he could be packaged with JP, instead of losing the beloved Bison.

From Diamond Leung. I'm quoting in full here, h/t 6-4-2:

"Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti will be looking for a shortstop among other things before the July 31 non-waiver trading deadline, and the team is willing to adjust its philosophy of keeping their young players off-limits.

"We're more open-minded to who we may have to move," Colletti said.

Asked if he were referring to the young players, Colletti said, "They're not really young kids anymore."

Colletti's comments echoed what owner Frank McCourt told me earlier in the week when asked about the possibility of trading some of the kids. He said the ones they will hold onto are "the ones who are prepared to put in the work, listen to coaches and get better every day." The kids who they would be willing to part with are "the ones that can't do those things."

Gee, I wonder who Frank is talking about?

76 No sweat, my man. I wouldn't admit to playing the damn game if the game itself wasn't insulted first, speaking of trying to act cool...:)

79
I posted that excerpt yesterday, and have little doubt that it's aimed at Kemp (and possibly LaRoche). Who else fits the bill?

77 - Has anybody else noticed that LaRoche has better at bats against RHP. A platoon is not best for him.

79
Plaschke would arrange the players chromatically.

77 - I readily agree that this line up should be able to do the job, but I don't think that we can just wish away Nomar's injury risk. Its gonna happen, so the question to me is do we want to pull the trigger now or wait until we are really desperate?

81 Sorry, boss.

83 Has to be the funniest thing I've seen written about Plaschke. By the by, Bob, I also noticed that Bill was praising to the skies the attitudes of the white guys. Made me think of a wonderful FireJoeMorgan post from 4/15 where a Santa Clara writer was talking about gamers vs. non-gamers. Care to guess what the racial makeup was on that list?

81 - I always felt good when Ned/Joe starting talking up JP, because I always thought it was a prelude to a trade. How can a GM badmouth players that he wants to get some value for from the market?

79 I had commented on this at the end of the last thread.

Why would you even say something like this? In otherwords, we're willing to give you our slackers and malcontents.

Why couldn't they say - we know we have some holes to fill right now. Fortunately we have some good young talent that we can afford to lose now and not adverserly effect the future. We are not giving up on these people, we see them as a means to and end - a winning ballclub now and into the future.

How can a GM badmouth players that he wants to get some value for from the market?

Moronically.

I've actually been thinking that Torre's decision to put Kemp in the leadoff spot is not so much an indication that Torre thinks Kemp should bat leadoff, but rather a "showcasing" gambit intended to make Kemp look versatile.

85
With all of Plaschke's half-baked suppositions, I feel very comfortable in playing the race card against him.

Why would you even say something like this?

Because despite all of Ned's alleged PR experience and savvy, he's ultimately incompetent, defensive, and insecure, and lashes out in an effort to defend himself and his job (rather than, for example, being diplomatic and strategic in his public communication).

In essence, he's a feeler more than a thinker (an "F" rather than a "T", in Myers-Briggs terminology)

They are going to trade Kemp. I have sat here all day, working myself into a panic, and now I truly believe it.

84 I'm not wishing away the risk. I'm wishing Nomar stays healthy til after the trade deadline.

I like Delwyn Young but, I think he may be the guy to go. He seesm like the odd man out in the outfield and may actually net us something of value in the right deal. Maybe the Pirates would go for him for Wilson.

Ironically, if he were to go, it's hard to imagine that Young fits the description of some who is not prepared to put in the work, listen to coaches and get better every day.