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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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5) discussing politics
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They Don't Call Him Mister Ramirez
2008-08-04 15:55
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

I don't necessarily expect the Manny honeymoon to last - surely he'll do something annoying at some point (in fact, his effort on the ball to the gap Friday already qualifies) - but I'll enjoy what I can out of it and try to put it all in perspective, evaluating the overall package instead of isolated incidents, good or bad.

Comments (549)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-04 16:01:08
1.   Jon Weisman
I think the thing to understand with the debate over the curtain call is that there is a lot of pent-up angst at Dodger Stadium, and Manny provided an outlet. I think baseball's Emily Post crowd, of which I'm often a member, should try to forgive.
2008-08-04 16:02:07
2.   underdog
Now off subject (and LAT'd) but:

Speaking of Casey Blake, I have a new nickname proposal for him, instead of the muppet character idea:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Puma

I've been so wooooooooooooooooooooried about him.

2008-08-04 16:03:58
3.   regfairfield
Dodger fans get a ton of crap for being a generally uninvolved and dead crowd, but we're also not allowed to be excited when we make a huge acquisition.

What's the correct level of fan participation so I don't offend anyone?

2008-08-04 16:04:03
4.   Eric Enders
I guess the Dodgers are fairly fortunate in that having Ramirez for only two (or hopefully three) months significantly lessens the chances that everything will blow up in their face. Still, the chances that he'll pull some tremendously distracting and detrimental stunt by year's end are pretty good.

If he hits like he has been, though, then who cares.

Now that Manny knows for certain that he's going to be a free agent, at least he has a powerful incentive to be on his best behavior. Any incident will end up costing him a lot of money.

2008-08-04 16:05:25
5.   Greg Brock
Forgive Dodgers fans for a little exuberance. It hasn't been very fun the last, oh, however many years you'd like to pick.
2008-08-04 16:07:01
6.   Greg Brock
3 Just don't do the wave. That's all I ask. No beach balls, either.
2008-08-04 16:07:12
7.   Neal Pollack
Sure as hell beats booing Andruw Jones every time he comes to bat. That was such a great weekend.
2008-08-04 16:08:05
8.   Neal Pollack
6--I hear you, but that's asking too much of this fan base. They love their team, but have some pretty bad habits. Plus, the food on the loge has GOT to improve next year.
2008-08-04 16:08:21
9.   bhsportsguy
1 I hate to say it because it may be the dumbest reason of all, the fans were cheering because it was fun to be that excited. The crowd was just thrilled (I certainly was) to see it him hit that home run.
2008-08-04 16:09:24
10.   Neal Pollack
9--I've seen some exciting moments at the Stadium, but that HR Saturday night was sure up there.
2008-08-04 16:09:55
11.   ToyCannon
5
I had as much fun in 2004 as I've ever had at Dodger Stadium. It didn't end well but it sure had a lot of great moments. I wonder if the steroid spector of Gagne/Beltre has reduced that year for many. Still think if Penny had stayed healthy and Choi had been allowed to play 1st base we would have had a fighting chance instead of a Lima chance.
2008-08-04 16:11:47
12.   Eric Enders
3 Dodger fans don't really get criticized these days for being uninvolved. Those days at Dodger Stadium are long gone, what with the crowd's apparent need to boo at least three or four times a game.

Ramirez's home run last night was, I believe, the second curtain call that's been given at Dodger Stadium this year. Ask yourself this question: Was it really the second-best thing that's happened this year?

I'm all in favor of fans getting excited. Hell, I wish Dodger fans would get excited more often about Russell Martin, Matt Kemp, and Chad Billingsley, guys who have done 20 times more for the Dodgers in their lives than Manny Ramirez has.

It's a crowd that's willing to boo a great player and (presumably) good person like Jonathan Broxton, but will lavish an embarrassing level of praise on the biggest jerk in baseball simply because he happens to be the shiny new toy. I mean, I understand why it happens, but that doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

2008-08-04 16:12:17
13.   Tommy Naccarato
1 "I think baseball's Emily Post crowd, of which I'm often a member, should try to forgive."

Are you sure you don't mean baseball's Emily Litella crowd?

NEVER MIND!

IMHO, I think Manny has shown the masses the importance of having a bat in the line-up/where he is placed in the line-up; but that "Emily" crowd was well-prepped after Rafael went down. (for the year)(I'm guessing)

But then again, we do have Andr"U"w Jones....

Once again, NEVER MIND!

2008-08-04 16:12:22
14.   Xeifrank
Dodger fans may show up a little late and leave a little early, as is also the case in many other cities, but atleast our team is able to sell most of our seats. I've gone to a game at Chase Field (DBacks) and just walked up to the ticket booth at the stadium an hour before the game started and got good seats in the lower section between home plate and the first base dugout. And about a third of the fans were rooting for the visiting team.
vr, Xei
2008-08-04 16:13:14
15.   bhsportsguy
6 They did both on Saturday.

The rarest thing happened that night too, I was sitting behind home plate on the field level and in a span of 3-4 pitches, two foul balls were struck and hit right to the seats directly in front of me.

First time, the guy dropped the ball and bounced towards the aisle where a mad scramble produced the winner, the second time, the ball skipped off his hands into the seats to the right of me where a fan handed his prize to his son.

2008-08-04 16:13:46
16.   trainwreck
12
I still hear it all the time on ESPN and in the Bay Area.
2008-08-04 16:14:31
17.   regfairfield
14 As I learned previously on AZ Snakepit:

People show up in the third and leave in the seventh: hilarious, totally valid smack.

No one actually shows up for your games at all: invalid smack.

2008-08-04 16:15:00
18.   ToyCannon
Fox is plotting a Boston/Dodger World Series as we speak.
2008-08-04 16:15:18
19.   bhsportsguy
8 The plan is to enlarge the Loge concourses by next season, whether that means more Ruby's Diners or Canters, that I couldn't tell you.
2008-08-04 16:15:48
20.   Tripon
4 The problem with that argument is that the Dodgers then has to find somebody of Manny's caliber to reproduce what he does, both on the field and off the field. McCourt just won back the attention of L.A., I doubt he'll give it up so soon after having a real taste of recognition since the first time he came to buy the Dodgers.

In McCourt mind, the L.A. rivals aren't the D'Backs or the Giants. Its the Lakers in the fight for the hearts and minds of L.A. The Lakers can't lose Kobe Bryant or else they'll turn irrelevant for the number of years until they can reacquire somebody noteworthy. The Dodgers can't lose Manny unless they bring in somebody who can also excite people like he can. Is it C.C. Sabathia, or Mark Teixeira? I'm not sure. But I'm sure resigning Manny would put more butts in seats.

2008-08-04 16:16:44
21.   bhsportsguy
12 The Dodger Talk guys recall Blake DeWitt getting a curtain call after he hit the inside the park home run. I was there that night too but I don't recall that.
2008-08-04 16:18:29
22.   Jon Weisman
12 - I'm not suggesting that Manny's homer was the most exciting Dodger moment of the year, or that the Dodger crowd is a very educated crowd. But it wasn't a ridiculous moment.
2008-08-04 16:18:41
23.   Tommy Naccarato
11 What MLB city is Hee Sop playing in now?
2008-08-04 16:20:30
24.   Eric Enders
20 I believe studies have generally shown that in baseball at least, one individual player has a minimal impact on attendance. You might get a very short-term impact from someone as famous as Manny, or a phenomenon like Fernando, but it wears off fairly quickly, and even then those guys are the exceptions. Teams sell tickets because the ballpark experience is good or because the team is winning, not because of individual players.

Manny is valuable to the Dodgers' ticket sales not so much because he's Manny Ramirez, but because he's likely to help the team win. If different players help the team win next year, attendance will be just as good.

2008-08-04 16:21:16
25.   Eric Enders
21 Actually I do recall that, but I'd forgotten about it.
2008-08-04 16:21:38
26.   Tommy Naccarato
21 How many forget the recent events of (2) NEAR PERFECT games by the home team....
2008-08-04 16:21:39
27.   Frip
Jon: [Manny will] do something annoying at some point (in fact, his effort on the ball to the gap Friday already qualifies.

When I played baseball I didn't see the need to run hard for balls I determined were unreachable. Fruitless hussle to impress the ego, the coach, and the fans.

Why do we criticize those who don't hussle for the unreachable (a rational decision), yet don't criticize, BUT PRAISE, those who hussle for the ureachable (an irrational decision). Further, a decision that could cause unnecessary injury.

To heck with Joe Hussle. Joe Hussle's a moron.

2008-08-04 16:22:48
28.   underdog
23 The Kia Tigers in Korea.
2008-08-04 16:23:52
29.   Tommy Naccarato
28 Thank you.
2008-08-04 16:24:18
30.   Tripon
One good thing about American Imperialism. It spreads baseball to the far reaches of the U.S. I can't wait twenty years from now when we're all salivating of the first can't miss baseball player from Iraq.
2008-08-04 16:24:22
31.   Jonny6
Still getting up to speed on all things waiver-related.

So a question for EE stemming from the end of the last thread - the names placed on waivers are not publicly released? Does it ever become accessible information even after the season concludes or some other later date?

2008-08-04 16:25:04
32.   Eric Enders
27 I find the notion that it was impossible to prevent a ball in the left-center field gap from becoming a triple rather preposterous. If Manny runs hard, he gets the ball sooner and the runner stops at second base. It was rather obvious.
2008-08-04 16:26:20
33.   Xeifrank
32. I wasn't sure if #27 was being serious or not and avoided responding to the obvious.
vr, Xei
2008-08-04 16:26:32
34.   bhsportsguy
31 No.

Its commonly believed that just about the entire roster gets run through waivers during August, but this is business information only, not for the public.

2008-08-04 16:26:59
35.   Eric Enders
31 No, the names are never released, not even after the season. They're subject to the same leaks and rumors that other baseball information is, though, so sometimes it becomes public for a particular player.
2008-08-04 16:27:09
36.   Howard Fox
32 or you could make the argument that he was deferring to the centerfielder
2008-08-04 16:28:06
37.   Tommy Naccarato
30 And many on JDT will be lamenting, with disgust, that he isn't being put into the game to replace 80 year old Andruw Jones in center...

It's all that damn Colletti's fault!

2008-08-04 16:29:48
38.   Harold M Johnson
I was there on Sunday and I haven't seen Dodger stadium rocking like that since 2004, and even then this was something different. People were delirious, it was wild and a ton of fun. Will it last? Maybe not, but Sunday was a really fun day. We even got Larry Bowa to wave to us and crack a smile, right after Bison's HR.
2008-08-04 16:30:03
39.   Eric Enders
36 You could, yes. Which makes it a lousy judgment call rather than a lack of effort. Bad play either way.

It didn't help matters that the play happened only hours after Manny had declared that he expected the center fielder to field every ball hit to the gap.

2008-08-04 16:30:53
40.   ToyCannon
23
Nothing like a HSC reference to bring Tommy outside to play.
2008-08-04 16:31:57
41.   Eric Enders
38 I'm glad the atmosphere is great and that people are having fun. I really am. I guess I just wish it didn't take Manny Ramirez to convince people that baseball is fun.
2008-08-04 16:32:05
42.   Bob Timmermann
Pretty much every player on the 40-man roster will be put on waivers unless there is some sort of contractual reason not to. As long as the player is not placed on irrevocable waivers, a team can just pull a player back if someone puts in a claim and they don't want to make a deal.

I think if I started a band, it would be called The Irrevocable Waivers.

2008-08-04 16:32:12
43.   berkowit28
Near-LATed (or at any rate no response) in last thread:

Anyone else find that the MLB Scoreboard page for today (and any day except yesterday) gets an error page?

I'm in Firefox 3 Mac, if that matters (so anyone with same not have the problem?)

2008-08-04 16:32:52
44.   Howard Fox
36 or...you could say he consciously saw a 10 time gold glove cf coming over and deferred.....
2008-08-04 16:33:05
45.   Tommy Naccarato
40 Not fair! Not fair! Alls it took was Emily "Litella" Post!
2008-08-04 16:33:39
46.   ToyCannon
39
Maybe we can pick up Coco Crisp cheap. On the plus we will never need to worry about our left fielder taking out our SS trying to catch a flyball unless the SS makes it out to the running track.
2008-08-04 16:36:55
47.   Tripon
46 You want to add another outfielder to this crazy team?
2008-08-04 16:37:00
48.   Howard Fox
41 that is because this whole season it has been like pulling teeth, total frustration with the whole package, from Ned to Joe to half the roster to the lack of thought process behind the lineup....

one guy, Manny, energizes the team, which energizes the fans, etc

I think, for me, its been a long time since we had a real masher, a real threat in the middle of the lineup...

2008-08-04 16:40:51
49.   Bob Timmermann
Lots of people seem to define "long time" the same way John's older son would.

It really wasn't that long ago when Shawn Green and later Adrian Beltre were smashing home runs. Nor was Gary Sheffield that long ago.

At least by my reckoning. It's not like Dodgers fans have been wandering around the High Desert for 40 years hoping that they can find a restaurant that makes a mean burrito con manna.

2008-08-04 16:43:15
50.   Ian Capilouto
I have been to 7 Dodger games this year and they lost 5 of them and they weren't even well played ball games. Inept offense where they were only down by a run or two, and there was a feeling of no hope. I think the common fan does enjoy baseball, but this Dodger team has been beyond just mediocre up to this point. They have been boring. My friend comes to town a few weeks ago for his yearly visit to LA, he asks me to buy tickets for all of us guys, and the Dodgers go on to get shutout by a journeyman pitcher. A couple of curtain calls for some inspiring play, come on, fans deserve it after they spend the kind of money they do for Dodger games.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-04 16:43:16
51.   ToyCannon
41
I'm speaking for myself but maybe for other Dodger fans. Watching a player have fun when he plays the game helps me enjoy the game. Players like Jeff Kent who soldier through a season tend to suck the life out of a crowd.

When Martin and Manny showed as much excitement about the home run as the fans did, it just amps up the atmosphere. If a team was made up of 9 Jeff Kent's and showed zero emotion over playing the game would the fans care? Russel Martin is a solid catcher but it is his enthusiasm for the game that really puts him on my map. Until Saturday Night I'd hadn't seen Martin smile like that for what seems like forever.

2008-08-04 16:45:34
52.   Eric Enders
51 I guess he was too busy being "knocked down a peg or two."
2008-08-04 16:46:54
53.   ToyCannon
49
Based on some of the comments yesterday, Manny is already the greatest player to ever play for the Dodgers. It will be interesting to read what they say two years from now if we make the mistake of giving him a Boras contract unlike the one we gave A Jones.
2008-08-04 16:47:38
54.   Ian Capilouto
And I think it is kind of snotty to say that the common Dodger fan is unaware to a fault. I have lots of friends and family who are casual Dodger fans and they are smart, well read, well spoken people, but they don't know all there is to know about the Dodgers and baseball. Baseball, at its core, is about entertainment for the common fan.
2008-08-04 16:47:56
55.   Eric Stephen
49
There are a couple good Mexican restaurants in Victorville and Apple Valley.
2008-08-04 16:48:19
56.   ToyCannon
52
?
2008-08-04 16:49:58
57.   regfairfield
Whether or not it's a lack of hustle or a lack of skill Manny fails to reach a lot of catchable balls. It's totally fair to criticize him about this.
2008-08-04 16:51:00
58.   Howard Fox
53 I am definitely for giving him a contract...I want them negotiating now...he'll hit like this another 2 or 3 years...let's ride it out...I don't care about the 4th year when he is 40 and he falls off...let's have a winning team now...

we all saw what having Barry Bonds in the middle of the lineup did for the Giants, even in his late 30s/early 40s...everyone hit better cause of his presence...

Manny does that for us...there aren't many like him...we should take advantage...

2008-08-04 16:55:32
59.   Bob Timmermann
56
Eric E. is referencing a Rosenthal column where a "Dodgers source" said that Martin needed to be knocked down a peg or two after making an incorrect pitch call in a game against the Cubs.

It was probably Rosenthal's most odious column of 2008.

2008-08-04 16:56:54
60.   Ian Capilouto
Manny may very well turn out to be jerk, and not hustle, and that will disappoint me, but it is complete BS to say he needs to cut his hair or else he is being divisive. That kind of thinking is for the army. Conform or else. Maybe he just gets a bad rep because he likes to have long hair and say weird things.
2008-08-04 16:57:57
61.   Eric Stephen
59
It was probably Rosenthal's most odious column of 2008

That's quite a feat.

2008-08-04 17:00:52
62.   Bob Timmermann
60
I'm dressing up like Lou Gossett, Jr. in "An Officer and a Gentleman" on four Fridays in October now.
2008-08-04 17:01:02
63.   SG6
51 - And Manny's even getting Kent to have fun!

Ramirez is even getting loud ovations for making the simplest of catches in left field - and when he strikes out.

"I didn't know whether or not to give Manny a high-five after he struck out in the seventh, because they were cheering him pretty good out there," Kent said. "That just puts it in perspective. There is a lot of excitement going on right now with the fans."

2008-08-04 17:01:13
64.   Prescott Pete
60 Don't know much about the military, eh?
2008-08-04 17:02:48
65.   trainwreck
59
Wow, I don't remember that. I really wish we could find out who is using Rosenthal to air their dirty laundry.
2008-08-04 17:03:26
66.   bhsportsguy
Ken Gurnick did not write this article on Dodgers.com

James Loney, a young player who Torre has described as a bit goofy, likes having Ramirez in the clubhouse because he allows players to be themselves instead of feeling they need to act a certain way to conform to the peer pressure of the locker room.

http://tinyurl.com/55s3b6

2008-08-04 17:05:42
67.   Frip
32 If Manny runs hard, he gets the ball sooner.

Manny, having a better perspective on the ball than you, determined otherwise. Especially since the television viewer wasn't offered a wide-angle view of the situation.

2008-08-04 17:06:29
68.   Ian Capilouto
62 I will make sure to wear a mohawk and a peace sign earring when that happens.
2008-08-04 17:06:38
69.   trainwreck
It is completely pompous to ask someone to adhere to some stupid rule about cutting hair. Stop taking yourself so seriously. This is baseball. Filled with crotch-scratching, tobacco-chewing, constant child-like behavior, and beer guts.
2008-08-04 17:06:52
70.   Greg Brock
they need to act a certain way to conform to the peer pressure of the locker room.

Shut up so Jeff Kent can read his motocross magazines in peace.

2008-08-04 17:07:45
71.   Disabled List
Manny's performance over the weekend is giving lots of ammunition to the Boston fans who think he quit on the Red Sox because of his contract dispute.

I was going to call the Sox fans ingrates for the way they're throwing Manny under the bus after all he did for that team. But it's not like Dodger fans haven't turned on former fan favorites in the past, for far less perceived offenses.

2008-08-04 17:08:08
72.   bhsportsguy
70 After he listens to hip hop with Matty and Pee Wee.
2008-08-04 17:08:19
73.   Frip
Bob, do you or have you ever used the term "odious" in audial conversation?
2008-08-04 17:08:50
74.   Jim Hitchcock
I missed the games over the weekend, so I'll just plug in with a `Hoo-ray for MannyWood'.
2008-08-04 17:09:01
75.   Tommy Naccarato
Just thinking about it, so far this year we have had Manny Mania and Torre "Just Ask Joe" mania.
2008-08-04 17:09:54
76.   bhsportsguy
73 Only when talking about having to listen to Pete Arbogast talk about having to put on his Hawaiian shirt at halftime.
2008-08-04 17:10:29
77.   regfairfield
69 Ordinarily I'd agree, but there's a good chance that some oil could fly out of Manny's hair and blind Matt Kemp.
2008-08-04 17:10:47
78.   Eric Enders
73 Only when discussing Garfield's canine friend.
2008-08-04 17:11:59
79.   ToyCannon
58
I'm expecting Boras to try for 5/100 and I'd rather pass, but I won't argue that having Manny hitting over the next few years would not be the worse thing.
2008-08-04 17:13:13
80.   Jon Weisman
The DT Picnic has competition:

LOS ANGELES, CA – The Dodgers Women's Initiatives Network (DodgersWIN) will present a baseball clinic and luncheon at Dodger Stadium on Saturday, August 16, from 9 a.m. until 2:30 p.m. The fee of $125 for the event, called "Play to WIN," includes a ticket to any available regular season Dodger home game in 2008 and is open to fans 15 and older. Net proceeds benefit the Dodgers' official charity, ThinkCure! Tickets are on sale now via dodgers.com. DodgersWIN events are presented by Time Warner Cable.

The morning clinic takes place on the field and features instruction from Dodger second baseman Jeff Kent, Coaches Ken Howell and Bob Schaefer, and stars of the past such as Wes Parker, Maury Wills, Tommy Davis, "Sweet Lou" Johnson, Ron Cey, Al Downing, Lee Lacy, Bobby Castillo, Rudy Law, Ken McMullen, and Derrel Thomas.

Following the clinic, a luncheon features current Dodgers Russell Martin, Matt Kemp, Manager Joe Torre, and Hitting Coach Don Mattingly.

The event is part of the Dodgers' ThinkCure! Radiotelethon with KABC 790 and 95.5 KLOS Radios and KCAL television. The events and broadcasts of August 15-16 will raise funds for ThinkCure!, the Dodgers' partnership with City of Hope and Childrens Hospital LA, designed to fight cancer and find cures.

"All of us understand how vital the Dodgers have been to generations of Angelenos and to baseball fans worldwide," said Dodger President Jamie McCourt, who created the DodgersWIN program. "As an agent of social change, the Dodgers have created this network of initiatives to ensure that we reach out to women and present programs that play meaningful roles in their lifestyles. It's a key part of our commitment to the families of our community."

2008-08-04 17:13:31
81.   bhsportsguy
78 Have you ever found any Garfield strip funny?
2008-08-04 17:13:50
82.   Bob Timmermann
I use the word "odious" a lot in conversation. I pretty much speak the way I write.
2008-08-04 17:14:51
83.   silverwidow
The Dodgers had a list of players PIT wanted and agreed on Bryan Morris at 3:59 ET. So did they frantically call the Commisioner's Office with a minute to spare? That's sounds hard to believe.
2008-08-04 17:15:08
84.   Eric Enders
81 A few, I guess. It's not a favorite of mine or anything.
2008-08-04 17:15:47
85.   trainwreck
77
I was expecting it to blind Juan Pierre in center, which is not much of a problem for me.
2008-08-04 17:16:56
86.   trainwreck
BTW, there was a guy at UCSB who had dreads and clearly never used any of those chemicals to make them smell fresh. It smelt like his head went rotten.

I hope Manny does not do this.

2008-08-04 17:17:15
87.   Eric Enders
83 Over the years I've gotten the impression that the deadline is fairly elastic, and that you need only have the bare bones of a deal worked out before the deadline. The details can be worked out later in the day.
2008-08-04 17:17:20
88.   trainwreck
81
I loved the cartoon show as a child.
2008-08-04 17:17:28
89.   Howard Fox
79 5/$100...hmmm

I'd do it...in another year or two there is a ton of payroll coming off the books...if he can keep hitting for 3, maybe 4 years even...

in my mind, we are NL pennant contenders the entire time because we can score runs...and with our young pitchers...we are a threat to win the World Series every year...

I'd do it in a heartbeat...I'd be on the phone with Boras as we speak pinning him to that price

2008-08-04 17:17:30
90.   bhsportsguy
80 They are also having their luncheon to salute the teams of the '90s that day too.

But can anyone compete with breakfast and an opportunity to win a Jack Fimple & Mike Davis autographed baseball.

I did not think so.

2008-08-04 17:18:05
91.   Frip
What if Manny feels ugly with short hair? Some people...and not only women, would DIE before cutting their long hair. Men CAN have other reasons to keep it long OTHER than rebelliousness. A person's looks can go deep into their psychology. It's not only a public invasion of privacy, but a psychological invasion.
2008-08-04 17:19:09
92.   Eric Enders
85 That would be a huge problem for us. You assume that Pierre being blind would cause the Dodgers to leave him out of the lineup, although there's really no reason to believe they would.
2008-08-04 17:19:28
93.   bhsportsguy
88 I liked the stuffed animals stuck on car window.

90 I also have a special prize, a Steve Lyons autographed ball to be awarded sometime that day.

2008-08-04 17:20:33
94.   Jacob Burch
I'm working on prizes for some sort of card-playing tournament, baring interest. I still think Jae Seo cards for all but the top 6 finishers sounds good.
2008-08-04 17:20:43
95.   Eric Enders
89 Keep in mind the runs that we'd lose by playing only 8 defenders.
2008-08-04 17:21:34
96.   Jim Hitchcock
91 I'm still trying to find an F.P. Santangelo bobblehead on E-Bay!
2008-08-04 17:24:23
97.   Howard Fox
95 and how many defenders do we have now with Pierre and Kent in the lineup?
2008-08-04 17:25:53
98.   Ian Capilouto
The whole hustle thing with Manny is kind of a grey area for me. In a perfect baseball world, everyone would hustle on every play, but I have seen countless players dog it in every game I have watched. I watched Jimmy Rollins jog to first base after he popped up in the infield last night on tv when just that same day I saw a Diamondbacks player drop an infield fly. So the Manny not hustling thing, could just be the normal, "I'm a veteran, I don't need to waste my energy," type thing. It is poor playing, but the norm. Hopefully, but I doubt it, Matt Kemp and Co. never stop hustling down the line.
2008-08-04 17:27:59
99.   Linkmeister
97 You mean Kent reminds you of The Ancient Mariner, who "stoppeth one in three?"

(Apologies to Roger Angell, in one of whose books I saw that. It referred to someone other than Kent, though.)

2008-08-04 17:29:48
100.   still bevens
98 My favorite thing about the 88 World Series box set is watching Mickey Hatcher sprint down the line on every single play. Dude would get walked and he would run to first as fast as possible.

My second favorite thing is Dave Stewart immediately retaliating against Sax in the bottom of the first because Canseco got hit in the top of the inning. Theres still some of that going on these days but you dont usually see its results immediately.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-08-04 17:30:27
101.   Linkmeister
Addendum to my 99 : Good grief, I didn't realize that line is actually the 2nd line of the entire work!

http://tinyurl.com/6o2gdt

2008-08-04 17:30:40
102.   Nagman
82 Seriously? You use a lot of exclamation marks.
2008-08-04 17:34:22
103.   ToyCannon
Wily Aybar starting at SS for the Ray's tonight.
2008-08-04 17:34:45
104.   Ian Capilouto
100 I am sort of hoping that some of the hustle that Kemp & Co. display rubs off on Manny. Like he sees he is on a young team that hustles. As far as the reports that he was dogging it, it doesn't seem any worse than how most established players do it.
2008-08-04 17:38:19
105.   bhsportsguy
102 Bob follows the Elaine Benes rules of editing.
2008-08-04 17:38:25
106.   Alex41592
The fans are in the middle of a love affair with Manny. I still can't believe the guy is playing for us. Sure the second curtain call was a little much. But, most of the people at Sunday's game were probably not at Saturday's game so it was new for them.

During this past homestand the crowd has been on their feet for our outstanding pitching as well. When Torre takes the starter out of the game, after a solid outing, the crowd for the most part gives a standing ovation for that pitcher. Dodger fans get no respect.

2008-08-04 17:38:42
107.   trainwreck
If we just hide some top quality Yoda in the first base bag, Manny will run to it faster than Carl Lewis.
2008-08-04 17:40:16
108.   Ian Capilouto
100 I love seeing guys like Hatcher run it out like that. Nowadays, the players take a look to see where the ball is at. When I played in little league through high school, we were always told when leaving the box to sprint with our heads down and run through the base on a ground ball, and on anything in the air, to get around first base.
2008-08-04 17:40:25
109.   D4P
I don't care per se whether Manny gets his hair cut or not, but I do think it's kinda lame to have a separate set of rules for stars.
2008-08-04 17:41:53
110.   Zak
The whole Manny-doesn't-hustle argument is as thin as the whole But-Pierre-hustles argument. Who would you rather have in left field, Manny or Pierre? Sure, Manny is not the perfect baseball player who plays hard each time up and dogs it sometimes. It's infuriating to watch sometimes. But the guy has hit a thousand in OPS for his career. I can overlook a lot of flaws for that kind of production. At least he's not trying to hit fans with beer bottles or chokes his wife. I see so many people on this site saying they'd like to still have Bradley, but they don't bring up his character flaws like they do with Manny. Again, all things considered, I'd like the Dodgers to have the best player they can on the team. It that's Manny, awesome. We can do a lot worse.
2008-08-04 17:43:15
111.   Zak
109 Well, it is a lame rule. They should do away with it. I thought it was awful that they made Beimel cut his hair, so I'm not partial to Manny.
2008-08-04 17:43:55
112.   Eric Stephen
76
That's two anti-Arbogast comments today, BH. You are venturing near "on notice" territory. :)
2008-08-04 17:44:06
113.   Ian Capilouto
109 So Torre should just tell Beimel to go ahead and grow that mop back.
2008-08-04 17:44:09
114.   D4P
111
But I'd also think it was lame if they did away with the rule specifically so that Manny wouldn't have to follow it.
2008-08-04 17:45:19
115.   Greg Brock
Nobody goes hard 90 to first every at-bat. 98% of all groundballs are fielded cleanly, and you've got to play 162 games, man!

Jog it. I don't mind.

2008-08-04 17:47:15
116.   Linkmeister
What's with the haircut deal, anyway? Are we back in 1965? There were guys in my high school class getting suspended because they were wearing their hair just over the top of their ears, mostly because they'd seen The Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show or on the Meet the Beatles! album cover.
2008-08-04 17:47:29
117.   D4P
110
The point is that the thousand OPS isn't worth as much when you turn opposing team ground balls up the middle into triples.
2008-08-04 17:47:33
118.   Zak
114 Agreed. But I also think it would be lame if they did away with it this off-season like they should but still made Manny cut his hair because they don't want to seem partial to the superstars.
2008-08-04 17:47:34
119.   bhsportsguy
112 I promise no more.
2008-08-04 17:49:07
120.   Linkmeister
I mean, take a look at the hair length on that album:

http://tinyurl.com/637axx

Mine's longer than that right now.

2008-08-04 17:49:40
121.   Greg Brock
Are there that many people really opposed to grooming standards?

Buncha longhairs around here!

2008-08-04 17:49:43
122.   Zak
117 That is where we disagree then. A thousand OPS is pretty much always a thousand OPS whether a double turns into a triple or not. An extra base given up over three games does not negate a thousand OPS, and I doubt that over a full season, it would be even half that rate.
2008-08-04 17:49:57
123.   Ian Capilouto
115 See, I think it is grey area. There are opinions about it both ways. Personally I like to see guys hustle, but for other guys, they don't want to pull a muscle and be out for weeks, so they jog it.
2008-08-04 17:50:18
124.   Jon Weisman
From the moment the mega-contracts are signed and the barcaloungers are installed, from the moment the rookies are called up and the infernal carry-my-bags hazing begins, the 25 members of a baseball team stop being equals. Some of the inconsistency I would gladly dispense with, but I don't agree that every member of the team has to be treated equally.

In my high school, seniors got to leave campus during free periods. When I worked at the museum, I started at a cubicle and earned my way into an office. I don't think professional baseball players on a team are of equal rank.

Except they all get the same gift when appearing on the post-game show.

2008-08-04 17:51:07
125.   regfairfield
When hustling means the difference between getting thrown out by 20 feet or 5, I don't really care.

When hustling means the difference between catching a fly ball and letting it drop in front of you, I care.

2008-08-04 17:51:32
126.   Zak
Is the discussion even about hair length? If you are going to allow grown men to chew tobacco while playing baseball, can't they grow their hair out if they want?
2008-08-04 17:51:55
127.   Jon Weisman
122 - Who said "negate"? He was saying it was a factor. You guys are pretty much agreeing.
2008-08-04 17:52:57
128.   bhsportsguy
124 We got to leave as juniors I believe.
2008-08-04 17:53:10
129.   D4P
124
I think grooming standards should apply universally across a team. The whole point of short hair rules is to project an image about the team. There's no point if some players are allowed to have long hair.
2008-08-04 17:53:59
130.   Zak
125 I agree. I care too. But my point is not that it's ok to be flaky on defense. My point is that if I can get someone who can OPS 1.000 and be nonchalant on defense or someone who can OPS .800 and care about defense, I'll take the 1.000 guy almost everytime.
2008-08-04 17:54:27
131.   Linkmeister
121 from Kenny Loggins:

"Then there's a light in my
eye and a guy says
Out of the car long hair!
Oowee - You're coming with me
Said the local police"

2008-08-04 17:54:37
132.   Ian Capilouto
125 Yeah, but it all seems subjective to me either way. A fly ball dropping in front of a player could be better than the player diving and it rolling to the wall?
2008-08-04 17:56:05
133.   Jon Weisman
129 - So your stance is grooming-specific?
2008-08-04 17:57:12
134.   Eric Enders
124 "I started at a cubicle and earned my way into an office."

And yet, the same grooming standards probably applied to you both places.

I see your point, and agree with it mostly, but there's no good reason grooming standards should be different for different players, or for that matter, that they should exist at all.

2008-08-04 17:57:53
135.   Greg Brock
131 Stay out of my beach community, Lebowski!
2008-08-04 17:58:59
136.   trainwreck
I will fight to the death for the idea that any person on this Earth should grow their hair the way they want. Unless of course your bald and the decision has been made for you.
2008-08-04 17:59:56
137.   D4P
133
My stance includes grooming, but I don't know if it's limited to grooming. I think I'd probably have to decide on a issue by issue basis.
2008-08-04 18:02:22
138.   Greg Brock
136 What is your stance on men with frosted tips?
2008-08-04 18:02:38
139.   Lexinthedena
135 Joe Torre, real reactionary.
2008-08-04 18:02:50
140.   underdog
Speaking of office cubicles, I finally listened to this past week's Fresh Air interview with Rainn Wilson and I love that guy even more than I did!

He even loved ELO as a kid! Ya gotta listen to it.

2008-08-04 18:05:01
141.   underdog
135 "Do I make myself clear?!"

I'm sorry, I wasn't listening.

2008-08-04 18:06:50
142.   trainwreck
138
I need people to make fun of. That is why I endorse the New Jersey spiky-haired look.
2008-08-04 18:09:14
143.   GoBears
125. Exactly.

132. Of course it's subjective. Rules like "always run as hard as you can" are for dopey 8 yr olds whose judgment coaches don't trust, and are just told to act in a certain way all the time in the belief that, on average, that will turn out to be the right thing to do.

We're adults. The players are adults. We can all see when effort matters and when it is pointless (diving for first base, diving for a ball that is out of reach no matter what).

I often think that sportswriters, and even coaches/managers don't watch the game nearly as closely as we do. Actually, I know I miss a lot more when I'm at the game than when I'm at home (and can rewind and slo-mo if I want to).

To say that Ramirez would be a better defender if he cared a little more and tried a little harder is not to say that you'd rather have Aaron Rowand or Darin Erstad throwing themselves into walls to atone for their horrible hitting. Of course Ramirez is the better overall player. But not by nearly as much as the difference in hitting alone would suggest. And not by as much as he could be if he cared about defense.

Manny's terrific. But he's not above criticism.

2008-08-04 18:09:23
144.   regfairfield
142 I'm scared my haircut might not be trainwreck approved. I need an example of the New Jersey spikey hair.
2008-08-04 18:10:44
145.   trainwreck
144
Prepare to hate.

http://tinyurl.com/6lsdeo

2008-08-04 18:12:44
146.   regfairfield
I think I'm straddling a fine line between awesome and hate right now.
2008-08-04 18:12:55
147.   Jon Weisman
I wasn't opining on the narrow issue of grooming. I would go topic-by-topic as well.
2008-08-04 18:12:59
148.   Eric Stephen
Prince Fielder just pushed and slap/hit Manny Parra in the Brewers dugout. Thom Brennaman is not amused.
2008-08-04 18:15:09
149.   Eric Enders
148 And playing nicely into our discussion here, any disciplinary action will not be as severe as it would have been had Parra pushed and slapped Fielder.
2008-08-04 18:15:11
150.   Greg Brock
148 I can hear Thom Brennaman's faux outrage voice in my mind's ear.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-08-04 18:19:39
151.   Eric Enders
Brennaman just contradicted himself about three times in five seconds:

"It'll be very interesting to hear what comes out of that Milwaukee clubhouse afterwards. Of course, maybe nothing will. In fact, I'm sure nothing will. But one never knows."

2008-08-04 18:24:10
152.   Bob Timmermann
The thought of hearing Thom Brennaman speak has just given me a headache.
2008-08-04 18:26:34
153.   trainwreck
What's Thom Brennan's feelings on Supercuts?
2008-08-04 18:27:01
154.   trainwreck
Brennaman. I totally screwed that one up.
2008-08-04 18:27:58
155.   trainwreck
I blame him for spelling Tom as Thom. Totally messed up my equilibrium.
2008-08-04 18:31:06
156.   Ian Capilouto
143 I am not saying he is above criticism, I am only saying that maybe he really was painted in a bad light by the Red Sox. I just don't see his non-hustle as any worse than almost every other player I have watched.
2008-08-04 18:32:16
157.   trainwreck
146
It would be awesome if they did it as a joke. But they are totally seriousl
2008-08-04 18:32:39
158.   Eric Enders
My work today involves editing a timeline of Yankees history, and I just came across the following line:

"8/15/91: Don Mattingly is benched and fined $250 for having long hair."

2008-08-04 18:34:46
159.   regfairfield
157 I think the fact that I don't spike the sides and use something besides axle grease keeps me out of their territory.
2008-08-04 18:34:52
160.   bhsportsguy
I just hope Joe uses a little restraint but I guess they have decided to let Kuo go for the last 2 months.

Date - IP - R - H - BB - K - NP
8/3 - 1.1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 17
8/2 - 1.1 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 30
7/31 - 1.2 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 20
7/28 - 1.0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 2 - 15
7/27 - 1.0 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 1 - 7

2008-08-04 18:37:59
161.   trainwreck
159
I would hope so, because I respect you. I don't want to ever respect one of them.
2008-08-04 18:39:34
162.   Eric Enders
I was frankly a little concerned when they brought Kuo in last night and was shocked when they let him hit and asked him to pitch the next inning.

It seems Torre has only two labels for relievers: "Not to be trusted" and "Work to death." Everybody is grouped into one category or the other. Kuo has now changed groups.

2008-08-04 18:40:55
163.   Eric Stephen
158
The "Homer at the Bat" episode aired a few short months later, February 20, 1992.
2008-08-04 18:41:47
164.   Eric Stephen
162
Joe Torre doesn't have a dimmer switch in his house.
2008-08-04 18:41:55
165.   Paul S
My God these ads are cheesy. How much more do I need to contribute to clear the page?
2008-08-04 18:41:55
166.   GoBears
156 I just don't see his non-hustle as any worse than almost every other player I have watched.

Boy, I sure do. But I admitted that it was subjective, so you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Manny Ramirez seems like Randy Moss to me. Fantastic in some ways. Supremely talented. Fun to watch when he's really focusing. But selfish and lazy and easily distracted by shiny objects. Whether or not the good is worth the bad is a judgment call. And the price (in terms of money and talent) matters.

2008-08-04 18:43:53
167.   Eric Stephen
165
If you use Firfeox, you can block the ads using Adblock.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/10

2008-08-04 18:44:43
168.   Eric Enders
From the New York Times article about the Mattingly incident:

"It's nickel and dime," said the second baseman Steve Sax. "Somebody's hair is a ridiculous way to tear down a team."

In the article, Mattingly also requested that he be stripped of his team captaincy and asked to be traded from the Yankees to the Twins (!).

2008-08-04 18:44:57
169.   trainwreck
166
That is pretty much the most depressing comparison you can make for a Raiders fan. I was beyond happy the day we got Moss. I could not get over the fact we got my favorite player. After two years and me seeing him play in person, I began to loathe Randy Moss with a passion.
2008-08-04 18:46:28
170.   Eric Stephen
168
Mattingly was smart. He wanted to get a title!

I always felt bad for Mattingly. He was a great player, and I enjoyed him from afar. But it sucks for him that the Yankees appeared in a World Series in the year before and after he played, but not during.

2008-08-04 18:47:00
171.   Eric Enders
166 I do, as well. His non-hustle is so different from everyone else's that it's a sort of over-the-top parody of non-hustle.
2008-08-04 18:47:20
172.   Eric Stephen
169
The one Raiders jersey I own is a Moss #18. I'm debating whether or not to scrape off the "Moss".
2008-08-04 18:48:04
173.   still bevens
Anyone else watching the ESPN broadcast of the Rockies/Nats game? This is an impressive stream of incomprehensible babble going on by the three man broadcasting crew.
2008-08-04 18:49:15
174.   Eric Stephen
LaRoche just struck out swinging in the 1st with runners on 2nd & 3rd, 1 out. 1-0 Pittsburgh.
2008-08-04 18:49:49
175.   trainwreck
172
I don't blame you, I was set to get a Moss jersey too.

I have Firefox Adblock, yet those ads don't disappear.

2008-08-04 18:50:05
176.   Paul S
Thanks Eric, I tried Fox3, it had too many errors where I wanted to go. I've got a IE fix I'll try.
2008-08-04 18:50:26
177.   Eric Stephen
173
That's the normal Rockies' crew of Drew Goodman and George Frazier. In my opinion, they are the worst crew in the division.
2008-08-04 18:51:40
178.   Eric Stephen
175
I can't decide whether to get a McFadden or Russell jersey. Part of the decision is based on longevity. I'm leaning towards no jersey.
2008-08-04 18:52:51
179.   Eric Stephen
3 runs & 4 hits for the Pirates in the top of the first.
2008-08-04 18:53:42
180.   LogikReader
178

A Jersey of the fans, maybe?

---

The Dodger season may be turning around, and if it is, I have to think the turning point was when Eric Stults shut out the White Sox going all nine innings.

What do you guys think was the turning point of the Dodger season?

2008-08-04 18:54:43
181.   Greg Brock
178 A Kenny Stabler jersey would be cool.

Or a Bo Jackson jersey.

2008-08-04 18:54:45
182.   trainwreck
178
Yeah, it is really hard to say. I wish I had gotten a Ronald Curry jersey.
2008-08-04 18:55:11
183.   trainwreck
Bo Jackson would be very sweet.
2008-08-04 18:55:20
184.   Eric Enders
177 I think Goodman's fine. Frazier's a joke, but not as big a joke as, say, Bill Schroeder or Rick Monday.

Goodman almost openly roots for the Dodgers, which is kind of weird. I guess there are a fair amount of Dodger fans in Colorado, but still.

2008-08-04 18:56:37
185.   trainwreck
I want to get an Asomugha jersey, but I fear he could be gone. So next in line would be Thomas Howard.
2008-08-04 18:57:47
186.   Eric Enders
A Thomas Howard jersey, definitely. Him, or Johnnie Lee Higgins.
2008-08-04 18:59:43
187.   Ian Capilouto
166 I guess I just don't see much of a difference between players other than that Manny is one of the biggest names out there and has a quirky personality. I think it is easy to pick on that.
2008-08-04 19:01:02
188.   trainwreck
186
Wow, really? Why? UTEP fan?
2008-08-04 19:02:33
189.   still bevens
180 Im hoping Manny's presence will just let the team relax and not press. Now that the expectations are somewhat off all the youth they can just concentrate on playing the game.
2008-08-04 19:03:02
190.   still bevens
Also looks like bad news for St. Joba in Arlington. Had to leave the game after a visit from the trainer.
2008-08-04 19:05:41
191.   trainwreck
188
Wait, you went to UTEP, didn't you?
2008-08-04 19:07:05
192.   Eric Stephen
Bo Jackson is an excellent idea. My favorite all time football player.
2008-08-04 19:12:16
193.   Eric Enders
191 Not guilty, your honor. I do have season tickets, though.
2008-08-04 19:15:15
194.   Jon Weisman
How far can a major-league power hitter hit a ball off a tee?
2008-08-04 19:16:52
195.   Eric Enders
194 I don't know, but that would actually be a more interesting All-Star Break contest than the Home Run Derby.
2008-08-04 19:17:30
196.   max power
165 I'm not 100% on this, but I believe that if you use Adblock, the site loses out on the ad revenue from your visit.

It's quite easy to use my system, which I call AdIgnore, without costing Jon dough.

2008-08-04 19:18:18
197.   whodat807
Off days make me sad. :(
2008-08-04 19:18:47
198.   max power
196 was for Eric at 167 , not Paul at 165
2008-08-04 19:19:38
199.   trainwreck
193
Here is the sad thing. I got my Eric's confused. I am pretty sure you went to Texas University at Austin. Yet, Eric Stephen I think went to UCSD and is a USC fan.

And I still totally screwed it up.

2008-08-04 19:20:12
200.   Ken Noe
Not only is Manny's hair safe, apparently, but you'll be able to buy Dodger skullcaps and helmets with dreds attached at the next homestand.

http://tinyurl.com/62l9jy

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-08-04 19:20:20
201.   Greg Brock
194 The exit velocity on a wood bat is like 90/95 mph on a pitched ball. Stationary ball? No clue.

There. I've contributed. Physics DR or Johnny Nucleo can take it from there.

2008-08-04 19:23:43
202.   Alex41592
Arizona has realized whom they are facing 3-3 Bot 2.
2008-08-04 19:27:10
203.   Bob Timmermann
200
The ghost of Danny Goodman approves!
2008-08-04 19:29:55
204.   Alex41592
4-3 Pirates Top 3.
2008-08-04 19:31:22
205.   trainwreck
200
Yes, I love it! Drive Kent insane.
2008-08-04 19:33:25
206.   Icaros
I just have this feeling that acquiring Manny will be like a major coke binge. It's going to be super fun, and we're going to feel invincible at times. But it's also going to end, and when it does we'll be drowning in despair and emptiness.
2008-08-04 19:34:25
207.   trainwreck
206
That's why I stick to hallucinogens.
2008-08-04 19:34:45
208.   Bob Timmermann
On the DBacks broadcast, they are speculating how much a Mark Grace rookie card would sell for. Sutton and the guy in the stands thought it would sell for around $50-75. Grace said he would be shocked if it were worth more than $5.

Checking ebay, Grace's rookie cards sells for around a buck.

2008-08-04 19:36:08
209.   Greg Brock
206 You're doing the wrong drugs.
2008-08-04 19:38:38
210.   Icaros
Okay, maybe it's more like ecstasy.
2008-08-04 19:39:55
211.   regfairfield
Why do they put the extra strong button and the extra sweetener button on the coffee machine have to be so close together?
2008-08-04 19:39:58
212.   trainwreck
210
That's pretty much the exact same description as you said in 206 .
2008-08-04 19:40:02
213.   underdog
Man, it's weird to see Andy LaRoche wearing the Pirates uniform.

Then sometimes it's weird to see anyone wearing a Pirates uniform.

Happy for him he's playing though.

Pirates will likely find a way to lose this one but it's fine to see them make the DBacks nervous.

And I also see, or hear, that the DBacks/Chase Field are doing that annoying thing of having kids do PA announcing that they did for awhile at SBC Park, too. I love kids. I don't love kids on the PA.

2008-08-04 19:40:06
214.   Eric Enders
I used to have one of those. Come to think of it, probably still do in a box somewhere. 1988 Donruss. Head and shoulders shot. Red, blue, and black borders.
2008-08-04 19:40:59
215.   Icaros
209

I'm a student of Yoda, but I watched a few of Manny's games years ago.

2008-08-04 19:41:36
216.   Greg Brock
I'll take the elegant wood paneling of a 1987 Topps, thank you very much.
2008-08-04 19:42:22
217.   Icaros
212

I know, that's why I changed it.

2008-08-04 19:42:32
218.   max power
214 I'd offer it to Sutton for $40, stat.
2008-08-04 19:42:44
219.   Eric Enders
And while we're on the subject of Cubs rookie cards from the 1980s, I think Greg Maddux needs to re-grow his Gilbert Roland 'stache.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/215/462155353_c2b1842555.jpg

2008-08-04 19:44:27
220.   underdog
206 Just so we're prepared, will it be more like "Rush," or "Blow," or "Crank"? Or maybe it's just "The Seven Percent Solution."

On the other hand, I think the acquisition of Andruw Jones was more like the cocaine scene in Annie Hall; just a quick sneeze and it blows all over the place, without getting to enjoy the high.

2008-08-04 19:44:43
221.   Icaros
I'm a fan of the solid cardstock and classy powder blue fade of the 87 Fleer campaign, myself.
2008-08-04 19:44:47
222.   Eric Enders
Can we compare Pierre to a drug too? Sniffing paint maybe?
2008-08-04 19:46:48
223.   trainwreck
222
Juan Pierre is like Salvia. You feel like you have a brain tumor.
2008-08-04 19:47:14
224.   max power
222 Nitrous oxide. Good for about 10 seconds of laughs, followed by a dull headache.
2008-08-04 19:47:38
225.   underdog
It is amazing how near-worthless many of the baseball cards we cherished as a kid thinking they would be worth a fortune, players who had two amazing years and we figured they would be awesome for many years to come. Rookie cards for guys we once were excited to trade for that are now worth all of a buck.

I do have two of Cal Ripken's rookie card, though.

2008-08-04 19:48:30
226.   underdog
222 I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing scrap.

(That's the street name for a kilo of Pierre.)

2008-08-04 19:48:46
227.   Icaros
Ooh, this game will be fun. Andre Ethier is an antihistamine. Russell Martin is an imported beer.
2008-08-04 19:49:57
228.   max power
225 Haven't seen it for years, but I'm sure I have at least two versions of Cal's brother's infamous "Rick Face" card...
2008-08-04 19:50:19
229.   MikeLumHarris
219. Maddux looks like Genghis Khan on that card.
2008-08-04 19:50:33
230.   trainwreck
Sports cards got ruined, because in the began making all the insert cards have "game-worn jerseys" and "autographs." So if you don't have either of those, your cards are probably worth nothing.
2008-08-04 19:51:29
231.   trainwreck
*because they began

I really need to get a new keyboard that's stop deleting things.

2008-08-04 19:52:13
232.   Eric Enders
228 That card was great because they clearly couldn't decide what the hell to do after they noticed the profanity. Some versions have it whited out, some have it scribbled out, some have a black box over it.
2008-08-04 19:52:37
233.   Icaros
231

And adding apostrophes.

2008-08-04 19:53:48
234.   max power
228 I remember trying to track down all the variations. Fun stuff!
2008-08-04 19:54:40
235.   trainwreck
233
That's just my brain.
2008-08-04 19:57:32
236.   D4P
Man, it's weird to see Andy LaRoche wearing the Pirates uniform

Cause we were so used to seeing him in Dodger blue...

2008-08-04 19:57:45
237.   Johnny Nucleo
201 Physics Dr is the guy to ask for those types of questions. Math isn't my bag. I'm much more qualified to talk about hallucinogens.

An old friend of mine from high school once read that there is a hallucinogenic substance in banana peels. So he bought a pound (ed: !) of bananas, took the peels, dried them to a powder in the oven, and rolled it up with some tobacco. He didn't recommend it as a particularly enjoyable experience. Although he was able to make enough banana bread to last him for a week or two.

Also not recommended: smoking ladyslipper roots, morning glory seeds, or dried up toad skins. I can only speak for the first experience; the other two are mentioned in my Anarchist Cookbook, which also does not have very good things to say.

2008-08-04 19:58:06
238.   D4P
In fact, I think Andy now has more career ABs with the Pirates than he had with the Dodgers.
2008-08-04 20:00:18
239.   Johnny Nucleo
225 I hear you. Todd Van Poppel and Brian Taylor rookie cards were pretty hot back in 1991 though.
2008-08-04 20:04:01
240.   Greg Brock
Sports cards got ruined, because in the began making all the insert cards have "game-worn jerseys" and "autographs." So if you don't have either of those, your cards are probably worth nothing.

Baseball cards died in 1989. The culprit can be seen here:

http://tinyurl.com/2wy7c9

2008-08-04 20:05:17
241.   bhsportsguy
The most valuable "collectible" I own is the Incredible Hulk comic featuring the first cover and feature story of Wolverine.
2008-08-04 20:06:33
242.   Icaros
240

I have at least five of those.

2008-08-04 20:07:12
243.   underdog
LaRoche is up with runners at 2nd and 3rd and 2 out.
2008-08-04 20:07:40
244.   D4P
LaRoche doesn't get many hits out of his batted balls.
2008-08-04 20:07:43
245.   underdog
And he grounds out.
2008-08-04 20:07:45
246.   regfairfield
Andy shut down by a good pitcher.
2008-08-04 20:07:49
247.   bhsportsguy
243 2-0 pitch, ground out to third.
2008-08-04 20:07:50
248.   Alex41592
Andy grounds to third.
2008-08-04 20:09:04
249.   Greg Brock
LaRoche flied out to center.
2008-08-04 20:09:27
250.   Bob Timmermann
The good pitcher tonight has given up four runs on eight hits and Brandon Moss appears to own him.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-08-04 20:10:14
251.   underdog
241 I actually have Wolverine #1 and sometime years ago, probably during a party at my house, I spilled wax on part of the cover and didn't notice it in time and then made it worse when trying to remove said wax and... now it's not worth all that much. Sigh.

--

Man, Darren Sutton is such a homer. You'd think I'd remember this but it's just always such a shock to my system after listening to Vin most of the time.

2008-08-04 20:11:03
252.   D4P
Darren Sutton

Daron...!

2008-08-04 20:11:15
253.   underdog
Brock is watching a parallel universe version of this game.
2008-08-04 20:12:05
254.   underdog
Darren, Daron, Moron, whatever -- he's lame!

"Now let's get some runs!"

"Where did that pitch miss?"

Etc.

2008-08-04 20:12:33
255.   Icaros
251

Aside from getting a paycheck, Sutton loves the D-backs because they are one of the few teams in baseball not to have hit a home run off his dad.

2008-08-04 20:13:06
256.   underdog
All right, time to turn the game off, and get some writing done. And maybe smoke a little Pierre.
2008-08-04 20:13:22
257.   Alex41592
4-4 Tie.
2008-08-04 20:13:30
258.   trainwreck
251
I have that too. Signed by some guy in a Wolverine costume!
2008-08-04 20:14:09
259.   underdog
Just saw the Dbacks tie it, heard Sutton wet his pants, and now I am officially out of here.
2008-08-04 20:16:56
260.   Alex41592
5-4 D'backs Bot 5.
2008-08-04 20:20:51
261.   MonkeyBlue
Yeah I don't think Dodgers can rely on the Pirates to do anything even with the great Andy batting!
2008-08-04 20:30:24
262.   ToyCannon
The Yankee plan to count on Hughes, Kennedy, and Chamberlain has not worked out well. Hope it is not something serious for Jobe as he was fun to watch pitch.
2008-08-04 20:35:14
263.   Bob Timmermann
I believe there will be many words rhyming with duck and luck typed on Bronx Banter now.
2008-08-04 20:39:36
264.   Ian Capilouto
Any of you guys have a drug for dealing with a failed relationship? I could use that right now in my life.
2008-08-04 20:42:48
265.   Jon Weisman
264 - Time, therapy, friends, meeting someone else were pretty much my only weapons. I feel for you.
2008-08-04 20:43:00
266.   regfairfield
264
1. Open bottle of tequila
2. Point in general direction of mouth
3. Count to 15
4. Return tequila to upright position
5. Wake up on the bathroom floor
6. Be so hungover the next day you don't care about anything else
2008-08-04 20:43:23
267.   regfairfield
265 That's probably better advice.
2008-08-04 20:45:31
268.   bhsportsguy
264 Time is probably the only thing that really works. Friends and finding something else (it helps if it is non-destructive) to occupy your time.
2008-08-04 20:46:10
269.   trainwreck
A combo of 264 and 265 works. I think the key is to have reasonable expectations going into a relationship.
2008-08-04 20:49:24
270.   Ian Capilouto
Yeah thanks guys, any suggestion is nice. Sometimes it is just nice to read some people argue about the Dodgers than to deal with that stuff. I was just venting for a second cause sometimes it just gets to you.
2008-08-04 20:51:30
271.   trainwreck
270
Totally, it's annoying how much that stuff can consume you. You will know when you find that special someone.
2008-08-04 20:52:10
272.   Icaros
270

When it gets to me, I take it out on Pierre, Colletti, and Torre.

2008-08-04 20:53:16
273.   KG16
263 - actually, I'm guessing it's going to be one word typed over and over again.
2008-08-04 20:54:30
274.   Ian Capilouto
Thanks dudes.
2008-08-04 20:54:37
275.   trainwreck
272
Perfect time to follow 266 .
2008-08-04 20:55:27
276.   bigcpa
Chris B. Young triple followed by a botched squeeze. LaRoche ran him to the plate and bounced the throw to Mientcwtcvzsz to get him.
2008-08-04 20:59:17
277.   Icaros
275

Tequila hurts me, it does. Something else better, I like.

2008-08-04 21:01:02
278.   Bob Timmermann
274
Become a librarian, it's a great way to meet chicks!
2008-08-04 21:03:03
279.   Greg Brock
Being a teacher is also a great way to meet chicks. If you like prison.
2008-08-04 21:03:10
280.   trainwreck
277
I am a Scotch man myself.

Especially after Marty made fun of me for being young and drinking 7 and 7s.

2008-08-04 21:04:28
281.   Bob Hendley
Listen to some Dylan:

Positively 4th Street
Idiot Wind
Just Like a Woman
It Ain't Me Babe
Shelter from the Storm

2008-08-04 21:05:22
282.   Icaros
279

Good way to meet cougars, though.

2008-08-04 21:05:32
283.   Bob Timmermann
Harking back to an earlier thread, did anyone link to this bio of the famous Bill Bergen?
http://bioproj.sabr.org/bioproj.cfm?a=v&v=l&bid=925&pid=964
2008-08-04 21:07:40
284.   underdog
Ian:
I do like a glass of wine (or three) to mellow out though personally I find alcohol just makes me more depressed (at least after it wears off). But whatever works. I also recommend:
Writing, even if it's just ranting, cathartic emails to friends.
Exercise - get those endorphins up. (B vitamins, too.)
Hang with friends - listen to some live music, see evidence of the existence of other women.
Read Matt Groening's "Love is Hell" (Life in Hell) comics
Watch/rent "Spaced" on DVD.
Drink more.
Sleep.
Take a class.
Time.
Meet someone else.
2008-08-04 21:07:41
285.   Greg Brock
282 Amen, brother. High five!
2008-08-04 21:08:50
286.   underdog
279/282 - {Mental note to self; if eventually have children, do not send to Brock's school}
2008-08-04 21:09:29
287.   underdog
286 {except to pick up cougar moms}
2008-08-04 21:10:24
288.   Greg Brock
286 I'm a very serious educatorperson.
2008-08-04 21:10:30
289.   underdog
There's still one more ticket available on Stub Hub for our section for Friday night's Dodger-Giants game up here. Who wants to come up to see Zito lit up like a Xmas tree? Brock? BH? Air fare not included.
2008-08-04 21:11:35
290.   larry slimfast
Ian, try not to worry about things you cannot change... but most importantly, do what you love and love will find you.
2008-08-04 21:12:40
291.   underdog
288 Hee. I'm sure! :-)

My sister actually met her boyfriend at the high school they both teach (he teaches Japanese; she art and ESL) and they kept it under wraps for awhile because they were afraid they'd be frowned upon by gossipy, frowny-type colleagues but it was fine. And where else ya gonna meet someone when you spend all your time in one place like that? It's worked out great so far.

2008-08-04 21:14:02
292.   Bob Hendley
I am thinking that Manny could be a big draw and source of excitement on the road as well now that he is in the NL.
2008-08-04 21:14:25
293.   Greg Brock
What's the drive from Los Angeles to The City®? Six hours or summah like that?
2008-08-04 21:15:57
294.   Bob Timmermann
293
I think the time depends upon your respect for local traffic laws.
2008-08-04 21:16:22
295.   Megaballs
If Laroche was playing here for the rest of the year, would his numbers be comparable to Casey Blake?

Then next two years, his age 25,26 he makes $400k...what do we do next tear? Dewitt, is he ready? If we can't trust a 24 yr old like Laroche, how can they just give it to Dewitt...age what 23 next spring... they can offer Arb to 35 yr old Blake ...$6mil + or 2-3 yr deal to age 37...OK ...or Nomar or some other big million old guys...

Anyways, if we had just laid off the Blake...we could have sat on an offer of Morris and Meloan with a catching prospect and Andre Ethier...take it or leave it...Add Hanson, Moss...I think Bay/Manny deal gets done...we keep Laroche to see how he blossoms backed by Dewitt...Ned gets no more overvalued FAs this winter...of course he'd be gone then...and we'd finish the year with 4 OFs, Andre's not playing anyways...instead we have 5 OFs, no DY, and no Andy Laroche...

and we have to offer more in the way of prospects since we can take on zero payroll...why? because Ned's blown it already...

You ever notice how Ned always gets pushed into deals?

Thanks you for listening.

2008-08-04 21:16:42
296.   Greg Brock
294 Traffic laws are for losers.
2008-08-04 21:17:08
297.   Ian Capilouto
Hey I got a some laughs out of all the suggestions. Funny stuff. Thanks guys. Moving out and back to my aunt and uncles house will do me some good. A good place to chill and write. I got made fun of for ordering a rum and coke once by the old lady. She asked if I was reliving high school when sneaking drinks in the parents basement!
2008-08-04 21:17:12
298.   Icaros
293

Five if you floor it and don't stop to pee.

2008-08-04 21:17:22
299.   underdog
293 Sounds about right, up the 5. Seat belts securely fastened.

Here's that ticket:
http://www.stubhub.com/san-francisco-giants-tickets/?ticket_id=121515319

2008-08-04 21:17:53
300.   trainwreck
296
Yeah, about 6 on the 5.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-08-04 21:18:57
301.   underdog
297 See? That was a bad sign right there!
2008-08-04 21:19:05
302.   Bob Timmermann
298
I can set Greg Brock up with a "motorman's friend."

I think it's the same one Strom Thurmond used during his epic filibuster in the 1950s.

2008-08-04 21:19:57
303.   Greg Brock
There was a jazz club somewhere in San Francisco I absolutely loved. I wish I remember what it was called, or where it was, or how I got back to my hotel room. That was a great place.
2008-08-04 21:20:02
304.   Icaros
For the record, I made the same drive last year for DT Day.
2008-08-04 21:20:18
305.   underdog
What do you guys think about "Cup of Coffee" as a title for my baseball script? Will it make people think it's about Starbucks?

I know that it was the original title for the movie "Pastime" and maybe they were right to change it. But it fits. Maybe as a temp title, anyway.

2008-08-04 21:21:34
306.   underdog
303 In North Beach perhaps? Pearl's? Or Fillmore St. somewhere? Or did you dream the whole thing?
2008-08-04 21:21:50
307.   trainwreck
305
At least you would get people wondering what the title meant.
2008-08-04 21:22:56
308.   Jon Weisman
305 - When my brother and I wrote our baseball script, coming up with the right title was an endless struggle.

We ended up with "Joy in Mudville." Don't use that.

2008-08-04 21:25:35
309.   Greg Brock
305 Here you go!

http://tinyurl.com/5ukkjs

2008-08-04 21:28:43
310.   Bob Hendley
307 - Yep and every review would begin by explaining what it meant and people would feel like "insiders" and would bring it up in everyday conversation (probably in a Starbucks) to show people how hep they are. And then Starbucks would get interested and you could sell the soundtrack by the cash register.
2008-08-04 21:28:48
311.   bhsportsguy
305 1. Two on, Two out.
2. Breaking Ball
3. Infield Fly
4. Catcher's Interference
5. Foul Pole
2008-08-04 21:29:13
312.   trainwreck
309
Ducks on a Pond!
2008-08-04 21:29:21
313.   Greg Brock
Mendoza Line or Mendoza's Line always sounded like a goood movie title.

Just write a script about a latin baseball player. I've given you the hard part. Now just fill in the rest.

2008-08-04 21:30:02
314.   trainwreck
People will think it's Mighty Ducks 4.
2008-08-04 21:30:42
315.   underdog
308 Darnit! {crosses that one off the list}

309 Yay! Thanks.

I actually think I read a script called "The Mendoza Line" once. People who weren't baseball fans had no idea what it was when they tried to market it. It's also a great band name. How about "The Kid From Left Field"? No. "Rhubarb"? I'll put a cat in it.

"The Wheelhouse" might be a fun title.

2008-08-04 21:31:56
316.   underdog
311 Are those baseball movies or porn titles?

313 - Actually the main character is a Native American. I could call it "Tomahawk Chop THIS!"

2008-08-04 21:32:55
317.   underdog
"Bush Leagues" might get people thinking it's a political doc.
2008-08-04 21:32:56
318.   larry slimfast
305 ducks on the pond
2008-08-04 21:36:01
319.   Greg Brock
Ducks on the Pond sounds like something old people would like. And old people are to be laughed at, not catered to.

Call it "Eephus"

2008-08-04 21:36:08
320.   bhsportsguy
316 I think those could work in both cases.
2008-08-04 21:36:45
321.   Icaros
Gapper
Two Men On
Spray Hitter
Easiest Base
Force Out
2008-08-04 21:38:24
322.   Bob Timmermann
The umpires seem very determined for the Cubs and Astros to play their game to its conclusion.

The first rain delay was 165 minutes and now they're in another. And the first one caused AP to send out headlines like "Cubs fans seek shelter from the storm at Wrigley."

2008-08-04 21:38:27
323.   Greg Brock
You can imagine what happens next...
2008-08-04 21:41:06
324.   Lexinthedena
305 "Ballplayer"
2008-08-04 21:41:50
325.   larry slimfast
319 that reminds me of that mitch hedberg bit about the ducks getting free bread at subway.
2008-08-04 21:42:35
326.   trainwreck
325
Totally.
2008-08-04 21:45:08
327.   larry slimfast
brandon lyons and the pirates making things slightly interesting in AZ
2008-08-04 21:45:46
328.   larry slimfast
lyon not lyons and laroche is up bases loaded
2008-08-04 21:45:51
329.   Bob Timmermann
If Willie Bloomquist can load the bases, he can set up Raul Ibanez for a Fernando Tatis-like effort.
2008-08-04 21:46:28
330.   Bob Timmermann
There is no joy in the Steel City ...
2008-08-04 21:46:30
331.   Greg Brock
I'm going to lose so much credibility, but I have never heard anything from Mitch Hedberg. I saw him on Comedy Central about a month ago. I thought he would be nerdy lookin', not a longhair.

I know. I suck. Bill Hicks died and I gave up.

2008-08-04 21:46:32
332.   larry slimfast
and now he's not and it's not - alright
2008-08-04 21:47:33
333.   GoBears
Productive Out
Slappy McPopup
Scrappy
Rally Killer
Gamer
Play the Game the Right Way
General Soreness
Passed Ball
Born on 3rd Base (Thought He Hit a Triple)
Professional Hitter

Hey, this is easy!

2008-08-04 21:47:39
334.   trainwreck
331
Bill Hicks is great and Mitch Hedberg is great.
So happy I got to see him a few months before he passed.
2008-08-04 21:47:39
335.   Bob Timmermann
Andy LaRoche goes 0 for 5 and leaves 7 runners on base.
2008-08-04 21:48:23
336.   Bob Timmermann
TATIS ALERT IN SEATTLE!
2008-08-04 21:48:39
337.   larry slimfast
mitch hedberg's joke screw ups were almost funnier than the ones he nailed
2008-08-04 21:48:50
338.   MonkeyBlue
335. Our boy is growing up.
2008-08-04 21:49:14
339.   Bob Hendley
Cherokee Parks I?
2008-08-04 21:49:25
340.   GoBears
"VORP!"
"BABIP!"

and so on.

2008-08-04 21:49:40
341.   Bob Timmermann
Ibanez settled for a 2-run single.

The Mariners scored 10 runs in the 7th against the Twins.

2008-08-04 21:51:06
342.   regfairfield
How to tell a Mitch Hedberg joke:

1. Find some commonplace saying or object
2. Take it literally
3. Realize that this stuff is only funny with his delivery

2008-08-04 21:55:32
343.   underdog
333 "General Soreness: The Mike Marshall Story" - yes! That's my next script. Book it.

"The Gamer" might be kind of funny, actually, though maybe only people on DT would laugh knowingly.

--

Man, I miss Bill Hicks. We need him.

2008-08-04 21:56:53
344.   larry slimfast
I don't think anybody will ever kill a rally as mercilessly as Tatis did again... off the same pitcher and all. Cold blooded rally killer... put that on yer script and smoke it.
2008-08-04 21:59:37
345.   MonkeyBlue
K-Fraud and crappy D = Dangerous combo.
2008-08-04 22:00:31
346.   Xeifrank
Bob, if the Astros and Cubs don't finish their game tonight, will it be suspended and finished at a later date or considered an official game as is? Why are some games that go enough innings suspended and others considered completed games?
vr, Xei
2008-08-04 22:01:39
347.   Xeifrank
wow, Orioles tied it up in Disneyville.
vr, Xei
2008-08-04 22:01:51
348.   larry slimfast
I'm watching Sane Man right now.
2008-08-04 22:03:04
349.   Bob Timmermann
346
The Astros and Cubs game is over. The Astros won 2-0.

The game was called in the 8th due to lightning in the area.

The game was not suspended because:
1) it was not stopped because of a power failure or darkness
2) the game was not tied
3) the road team had not tied or taken the lead in the top half of the inning before the home team could bat.

2008-08-04 22:08:14
350.   LAT
Breaking Balls
60'6"
Splitter
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-08-04 22:09:04
351.   trainwreck
Now I am just sad about Bill Hicks and Mitch Hedberg.
2008-08-04 22:09:39
352.   Xeifrank
Sherril might get out of this jam.
vr, Xei
2008-08-04 22:12:11
353.   Greg Brock
351 At least we still have George Carlin.
2008-08-04 22:14:37
354.   trainwreck
Yet, Carlos Mencia and Dane Cook still get to live.
2008-08-04 22:18:39
355.   larry slimfast
Neil Hamburger is kinda fun and weird and different. He eats pieces of crap like Dane Cook for breakfast.
2008-08-04 22:20:44
356.   trainwreck
Dan Mintz, who was a writer on "Lucky Louie," is a newer comedian in the Hedberg-mold that I like.
2008-08-04 22:20:46
357.   ToyCannon
I think Vinny's bio should be called "Deuces Wild"
2008-08-04 22:24:35
358.   LogikReader
Where does Demitri Martin rate on the "Hedberg Scale?"

"I don't like NY Deli Sandwiches, too much meat on the sandwich... it's like a cow with a cracker on either side"

a funny joke, regardless of delivery.

2008-08-04 22:25:17
359.   trainwreck
355
I've seen him on Adult Swim, he's good.
2008-08-04 22:26:29
360.   trainwreck
358
He's like the hipster Seinfeld.
2008-08-04 22:27:21
361.   Lexinthedena
357 "The Pronunciation of Fransisco Cordova's Name, and Other Stories" By Vin Scully. with Alex Haley.
2008-08-04 22:32:17
362.   underdog
354 At least Dana Gould and Patton Oswalt are still goin' strong! Doesn't make up for Dane Cook but it's something.

(Some clips of Dana Gould on Youtube if you're bored.)

2008-08-04 22:33:35
363.   trainwreck
362
Yeah, I wish I saw Comedians of Comedy on tour.
2008-08-04 22:35:07
364.   Eric Stephen
353
At least we still have George Carlin

Ummm....Greg, you better sit down for this one.

Underdog, after careful consideration, I have decided the title of your script shall be "Ground Rule Triple". You're welcome.

2008-08-04 22:36:03
365.   Eric Stephen
358
"What would you like with that sandwich?"

"A loaf of bread...and some other people!"

2008-08-04 22:37:22
366.   trainwreck
Comedy Central is currently showing the Blurnsball episode. So if you keep wondering what people are talking about, you can now see.
2008-08-04 22:38:24
367.   underdog
364 Hrmm.

I guess it beats Bob's title pick of "CI: Las Vegas".

2008-08-04 22:41:51
368.   Greg Brock
Dana Gould is great.

And I submit that Leela at the Bat is required viewing, even if you don't like Futurama.

2008-08-04 22:45:44
369.   Greg Brock
Yeah, I crossed the streams with The Simpsons.

Go ahead. Mock me.

I'd mock you if you did it.

2008-08-04 22:47:11
370.   DaDoughboy
Just finished watching Doug Stanhope earlier tonight. Yikes.
2008-08-04 22:49:54
371.   preacherroe
Blue Darter
Baltimore Chop
Hit 'em where they ain't
2008-08-04 22:53:02
372.   Icaros
"Oh I can't help you play better than Tiny Iota. That guy was great."
2008-08-04 23:14:30
373.   gpellamjr
I don't know anything about Mitch Hedberg, but my students have often told me that I remind them of him.
2008-08-04 23:16:52
374.   Eric Stephen
373
I hope its not because of your casual drug use in front of class!
2008-08-04 23:20:30
375.   gpellamjr
374 No, but they do say I remind them of Jim Morrison for other inappropriate things I do in front of class.
2008-08-04 23:23:48
376.   Clive Clements
363 I saw Comedians of Comedy last year (excellent), but Patton missed it b/c he was doing promo for Ratatouille. So I was excited to see their last show in San Diego a couple of weeks ago (also excellent, and this time w/ Patton!), but bummed b/c Zach Galifianakis wasn't able to make it. The tour DVD that came out last year is pretty decent, though it's not quite the same as live.

362 Dana Gould is doing a short set tomorrow at UCB, but right now there's a waitlist: http://tinyurl.com/6dqdfh

2008-08-04 23:25:05
377.   LAT
Teenage girls . . . ugh!!!
I'll leave it at that.
2008-08-04 23:26:18
378.   trainwreck
376
I really want to see Zach Galafanakis live. Dave Attell once brought him on stage during a set, but he refused to do any jokes.
2008-08-04 23:32:19
379.   Greg Brock
Is Knott's Berry Farm really the #1 amusement park in America? That reeks of false advertising.
2008-08-04 23:35:38
380.   Greg Brock
I bear no personal grudge against the good folks of Knott's Berry Farm, by the way. As I recall, their funnel cake is quite tasty.

I can't, however, imagine a family of four from Missouri debating whether to go to Knott's Berry Farm or Walt Disney World.

2008-08-04 23:36:03
381.   larry slimfast
379 Cedar Point might have something to say about that... even if it is in Ohio.
2008-08-04 23:38:01
382.   SevenNineSixtyFive
379

I'm coming in very late on a long thread - which I haven't read half of - so maybe I'm missing your point... but in fact Knott's Berry Farm really was a berry farm back in the day - makers of Knott's jam and jellies - owned by the Knott's family - who were also famous as far right-wing conservatives... but that's probably another topic for another site... how it became an amusement park, is too long a story to get in to here...

2008-08-04 23:38:59
383.   SevenNineSixtyFive
I see now - I did miss the point - you meant as an amusement park.... yeah - it never impressed me - but they probably have some stretched metric to prove their claim
2008-08-04 23:39:56
384.   KG16
289 - only one? dang.
2008-08-04 23:40:03
385.   Greg Brock
382 I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
2008-08-04 23:41:31
386.   KG16
I haven't been to Knott's Berry Farm in years. I think the last time I went was Knott's Scary Farm in college, or right after (circa 2000). I heard they took out the soap box racers and really have no interest in going now.
2008-08-04 23:43:07
387.   Eric Stephen
385
GB, if you ever get tenure and get to name an elective class whatever you want, I implore you to choose "Burning Poo and the Human Response" as the title.
2008-08-04 23:43:38
388.   Eric Stephen
Knott's jelly and/or jam is also quite overrated.
2008-08-04 23:44:25
389.   Greg Brock
387 Dude, I teach Philosophy, too. I can pretty much do anything I want in that class.

I could fit that in, no problem.

2008-08-04 23:44:53
390.   KG16
I'm still trying to figure out why there's a full scale replica of Independence Hall.
2008-08-04 23:46:07
391.   KG16
389 - Philosophy in High School? dude...

they could never have had that at my high school. particularly with my class.

2008-08-04 23:48:15
392.   Greg Brock
391 You should read this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93192093

2008-08-04 23:48:22
393.   regfairfield
But they just saw No Country For Old Men and totally got it.
2008-08-04 23:51:49
394.   trainwreck
My only memory of Knott's Berry Farms is getting wet on the train ride and then being in misery the whole time as my wet underwear stuck to me.
2008-08-04 23:54:32
395.   Zak
379 Maybe it smells like pee there.
2008-08-04 23:57:10
396.   KG16
392 - that's awesome. i'm just thinking back to what i was like at 17, 18. I had it in me to consider Artisotle, Socretes, and Plato... but I was too much of a smartass (I know, surprising, huh?) to be anywhere near serious.
2008-08-05 00:00:17
397.   Greg Brock
396 The smartasses are the kids that love the class the most. They file the attitude very quickly when they realize it's not going to be like any class they've taken in high school before.
2008-08-05 00:02:18
398.   trainwreck
I remember the first time I thought I figured out the world and life.

Then the mushrooms wore off.

2008-08-05 00:02:42
399.   KG16
397 - huh, interesting. the closest i got to anything like that was AP government. which was probably the closest thing i had to a college course in high school.

probably the reason i majored in political science and went to law school.

at least i know who to blame.

2008-08-05 00:03:51
400.   Greg Brock
I had four students borrow Waking Life from me to watch it again at home. There aren't many classes where that happens.

Imagine if we taught Latin, art, and music as well. It would almost be like getting a real education.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-08-05 00:04:26
401.   KG16
398 - heh. my first time figuring out the universe was actually a byproduct of a bodysurfing session.

the next time was because of the yoda.

allegedly.

2008-08-05 00:04:57
402.   trainwreck
400
I got tested on that film in one of my film theory classes.
2008-08-05 00:05:59
403.   KG16
400 - i'd be down for art and music. latin, not so much. even in the law, where you'd still expect to see some of it, it's pretty much gone.

the question is... and i hope this doesn't step on rule 5... is what would you drop?

2008-08-05 00:10:46
404.   larry slimfast
Has anyone ever mentioned the somewhat offensive sponsor note on Juan Pierre's Baseball Reference page?
2008-08-05 00:11:21
405.   KG16
404 - I saw that the other day, kind of strange.
2008-08-05 00:12:50
406.   Greg Brock
I'd force English and History departments to coordinate, so that I'm teaching the Great Depression while the kids are reading Grapes of Wrath, or kids are reading Gatsby while studying the 1920's. Literature and History are not separate fields, as far as I'm concerned.

I'd make mathematics optional beyond rudementary algebra. I'd stop pretending that everybody should go to college and reintroduce vocational training. Hate school? No problem. Don't blame you. Go be a craftsman and make more money than I do.

And I'd take kids to museums and parks. You know, outside and stuff.

2008-08-05 00:17:15
407.   Jacob Burch
A lot of the great high school courses come from the teacher. At my local high school, everyone and their brother had to take AP Physics, even if you hated science. The lessons learned outside of it were too enormous. One of the funniest, most enriching classes I ever took.

A few of the honors/AP english classes were like that as well, but my penmanship kept me out of them and in normal (which may has well been remedial) . It's evil of me, but I'm looking forward to visiting again with my Highest Honors lit degree from UCLA.

I will then use it to kindle a fire before begging for money.

2008-08-05 00:18:33
408.   trainwreck
406
I am down with the Brock school of well...schooling.

I had to buy Grapes of Wrath for I think my history of California class. Never ended up having to read it.

2008-08-05 00:19:30
409.   Greg Brock
By eliminating vocational training, the implicit message is that being a carpenter, electrician, or plumber is for lesser humans. That we shouldn't help you do that. You need to deconstruct Hemingway...Because that's noble work.

Understanding "Hills Like White Elephants" is more important than learning a trade.

2008-08-05 00:20:36
410.   trainwreck
I am such a slacker that I went from Chemistry Honors in my junior year to GPS in my senior year, which is basically remedial science.

The previous teacher showed Simpson episodes and let the seniors ditch. Sadly, we got a real teacher that actually tried to teach. That was until she was driven insane by us and had to leave class.

2008-08-05 00:21:24
411.   KG16
406 - not bad ideas. not at all.

i was shocked the other day when i heard they wanted to make alegbra a requirement for the 8th grade. makes no sense. i took it as a freshman and hand several sophomores in the class (many of them who had to borrow my answers to get by).

2008-08-05 00:24:30
412.   Greg Brock
One of my best friends flipped out because his daughter got a "1" in reading comprehension in the second grade.

I don't even know what a "1" is. But I told him to throw the report card away and take the girl to MOCA.

2008-08-05 00:24:43
413.   Kevin Gross
305 Uncle Charlie
2008-08-05 00:25:20
414.   KG16
407 - honors chemistry, ap physics, ap government were those classes at my high school. at least that's how i remember it. my physics class was weird because it was only offered 5th and 6th periods, so 5th period was all athletes and cheerleaders. there were very few days everyone was there - the best was when we had a water polo game and six of us stood up to leave at the same time.
2008-08-05 00:26:08
415.   Jacob Burch
High Schools have become nothing but College-Admissions machines, and you need more and more of a "general" knowledge to get into the "good" schools, and if you don't, then--like Greg said with Vocational studies--you're a nobody.

Its sort of interesting that if you half-coasted in high school doing what you wanted to do, save up a little, go to europe, then just did community college (where the math requirement only goes up to a fairly easy statistics class, if I remember right--I took Calculus because I'm a dweeb) you'd get a much rounder and enjoyable education.

But that stigma that comes with not going right away to a four year (and a few problems that come from being a transfer student) are extremely crushing to a 17 year old, I remember very clearly. I'm very lucky that some unfortunate circumstances allowed me to bypass the otherwise silly high school system.

2008-08-05 00:27:06
416.   trainwreck
412
What is MOCA?
2008-08-05 00:28:41
417.   Greg Brock
416 Museum of Contemporary Art.

I wish Suffering Bruin was here. He'd back me up on this. That's my brother in arms.

2008-08-05 00:30:17
418.   Greg Brock
415 You know how many college freshman have to take remedial English?

If I told you, you'd cry.

2008-08-05 00:30:38
419.   KG16
415 - i was dead set on going to a certain uc school but it didn't work out. my parents (and a few friends) tried to convince me that i should go the jc route because transferring would be easy. i was too proud and instead went to long beach state (had to go to a four year school). ironically, i took a leave of absence one semester and ended up playing water polo at a jc that had recruited me out of high school.

i am convinced that i got a better education at long beach than i would have at the unnamed school. perhaps its because it was where i was suppose to be.

but yeah, the idea that everyone has to go to college was old even when i was going to college. it was especially odd to me, since my parents built a company worth a small fortune with nothing more than high school diplomas.

2008-08-05 00:31:57
420.   Greg Brock
I also wish Penarol was here. Talk about a parent that actually cares. That guy is great.
2008-08-05 00:32:28
421.   KG16
ok, i should get some sleep so i can go pay down some student loan debt
2008-08-05 00:33:09
422.   trainwreck
417
Okay, that is way cooler than I was expecting. I agree, take a kid to that.
2008-08-05 00:35:59
423.   Jacob Burch
418 It depends on how we define remedial, but I probably do. What I suppose I meant was back then, it would have kept me out of getting into a "good english program" (I hate using these stupid quotes, but I'm too tired to put the irony into Timmermanesque phrasings) was mostly because of a mild nerve condition I didn't want to bring up.

In the end, despite a fairly poor system, I've found that smart, culture/knowledge-driven people tend to get past any sort of circumstances and make a pretty good basis out of themselves. I was happy to get into UCLA, and felt it offered a few opportunities I couldn't have found else where (mostly due to my odd concentration than any sort of fake idea of prestige), but I probably learned just as much of two years at a local JC as I did with two years at UCLA.

2008-08-05 00:38:17
424.   Greg Brock
Okay, that is way cooler than I was expecting. I agree, take a kid to that.

We don't have time! Quadratic equations aren't going to solve themselves, trainwreck. And there aren't any computer programs that can do it for you in three seconds. Nope. Not a one. And we have a test in three weeks. Need to be ready for that.

2008-08-05 00:38:21
425.   trainwreck
I am going to sound like a total hippie here, but if there was no such thing as grades, I would be ten times the student I was. I actually enjoy learning, but grades take out so much of my enjoyment that I wouldn't show up to class and such. It just makes school a burden and something you do to just please your parents. It makes you cheat! I wouldn't cheat if I did not have to get good grades.

Even now, I want to go local JC and take classes, but then I think about having to do homework and nonsense.

2008-08-05 00:39:55
426.   old dodger fan
A million years ago or so while at university I made a few extra bucks tutoring math. I had a Lit major who just didn't get it. Finally one day he said, "I don't care what you say, you just don't multiply letters." He was dead serious, he got up and walked out and I never saw him again.
2008-08-05 00:55:11
427.   Greg Brock
The math requirements today are crazy. Mother Brock got into Harvard without ever taking a class above today's Algebra 1.

They are teaching that stuff in the eighth grade now.

Everybody who factors equations on a day to day basis, please step forward.

2008-08-05 01:06:06
428.   GoBears
425. Hippie.
2008-08-05 01:11:46
429.   Greg Brock
If e8 turns out correct, it will be the greatest victory in the history of hippies.
2008-08-05 01:13:24
430.   Jacob Burch
Bill James is rushing here to prove Greg Brock wrong.

I do it for fun, but yeah, I work in one of the "math is necessary" fields of computers and haven't -had- to do anything fancy for a while. Though I still do just for giggles.

It helps when reading Pynchon, though.

2008-08-05 01:16:04
431.   xaphor
Everyone who quotes Gatsby on a day to day basis, please step forward.
2008-08-05 01:22:27
432.   trainwreck
I have met real hippies in Yoda pipe shops and they are on a wavelength that I cannot even describe.

Pretty much take your most optimistic view of life and society and assume that will happen next year. That is how a hippie thinks.

2008-08-05 01:32:09
433.   trainwreck
I don't have any medical training, but I think I could do a better job than the guy who did Anna Farris's lips.
2008-08-05 01:36:50
434.   Greg Brock
Everyone who quotes Gatsby on a day to day basis, please step forward.

Everybody who has ever been in a high school classrom, and spent dozens of hours volunteering their time please step forward...

Would you like to be a guest lecturer? I'd love to have you.

I didn't think so.

2008-08-05 01:45:57
435.   Jacob Burch
I'm not going to bother with that beyond saying its about finding your own personal cultural niche (or niches). I probably relate something to Salinger's Nine Stories every other day, at least.

But alas and oh well. I am excited that Greg (and KG?) are going to be at the picnic.

2008-08-05 02:04:09
436.   trainwreck
I wish I was close enough to Greg Brock's school to be a guest lecturer.

I would be the realistic D.A.R.E. teacher.

2008-08-05 02:09:06
437.   xaphor
Hey guy, relax. We're all pals here, not ex-ballplayers.

Reserving judgements is a matter of infinite hope.

2008-08-05 02:16:28
438.   Greg Brock
437 This is fun stuff. I'm pretty sure we're all just fooling around and chatting it up.

Anybody who takes personal offense needs to grow a dermis.

2008-08-05 02:17:16
439.   trainwreck
My epidermis is showing.
2008-08-05 02:19:50
440.   Benjamin Miracord
425 Even now, I want to go local JC and take classes . . . .

"You may call my love sophia, but I call my love philosophy." -Van Morrison (A Sense of Wonder)

2008-08-05 02:24:51
441.   Jacob Burch
437 What Greg said as well--I just meant "I could go on forever about why I think literature is neat," so I stopped myself.

This is a record for comments without a Juan Pierre drop. So there you go. He sure is scrappy.

2008-08-05 02:31:45
442.   trainwreck
Ricky: The thing with kids and growings and getting learnings and stuff is that... You can't lie to them. Basically, if you wanna tell the children they can't do something they're gonna want to do it more. When I was young I did all kinds of crazy {Rule 1}and I turned out wicked. That's because my dad was {Rule 1} cool, he let me do {Rule 1}. I was allowed to drive his car around the park, basically took my dirt bike to school, let me grow dope in his shed in grade 7. You know, that's what good parenting is all about. You gotta let them have a bit of freedom.
2008-08-05 02:39:34
443.   Greg Brock
440 My favorite student last year named her child Sophia because of my Philosophy class.

So that was nice. Would have been nicer if, you know, she wouldn't have had a child at 17, but it is what it is.

Sometimes you just have to smile on the outside and cry on the inside.

2008-08-05 02:40:24
444.   trainwreck
443
Damn!
2008-08-05 02:53:25
445.   trainwreck
But yeah, that is really cool and nice in a completely flipped kind of way.

Your'e like Edward James Olmos. Mr. Brockmenez.

2008-08-05 03:06:38
446.   Greg Brock
445 It's pretty fun when you get this email:

[Name redacted] was taken from her home at 2:54 AM. Do not share her wherabouts with family members. Do not share any information. A social worker will be along shortly to brief you. If a family member attempts to contact you, notify the [redacted] Police Department.

Craziness.

2008-08-05 03:13:03
447.   trainwreck
446
Holy balls, that is insane. Now I can understand why you wanted to leave your old job so badly. Yet, they probably needed a good educator like you.

I don't even know who she is, but I just hope the best for her.

2008-08-05 03:18:18
448.   trainwreck
Not even the support of family members. That is really saddening. I am sincerely grateful that you did your best to make a difference in her life.

Seriously, I thank you for helping her out and others. I wish more people would do the same. I hope I can make a difference like that.

2008-08-05 06:19:52
449.   Ken Noe
My student teaching was in fifth grade. The next year, one of my kids committed suicide in a particularly horrible way. It still haunts me. I think the signs were there, I just didn't know enough then to recognize them. Anyone who's brave enough to teach junior high and high school kids has nothing but my admiration.
2008-08-05 06:55:30
450.   D4P
On a lighter note:

Female Olympians to follow in Beijing include:

Kara Goucher

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-08-05 07:15:10
451.   PDH5204
194 http://tinyurl.com/5g3h2f

If you can find the velocity of the ball off Manny's bat, we're almost home, though we would need to posit the height of the tee in question. And by almost I mean to say that we could do the math for a range of angles of ball off the bat and see just which angle spits out the farthest distance from the tee and advise Manny to hit the ball accordingly.

2008-08-05 07:30:47
452.   Pedro Astacio
There's an article on SI.com by Jon Heyman about the Manny trade.

It mentions we consider Hu untouchable. Personally I would rather have LaRoche than Hu. Maybe this means Furcal isn't coming back.

2008-08-05 07:46:18
453.   Jon Weisman
451 - Hey, you linked to my cousin-in-law's website! And thanks for responding to my question. Now, how do we find the velocity off Manny's bat?
2008-08-05 07:49:10
454.   Sam DC
Kinda interesting article about Lenny Harris and Lastings Milledge and the work of a hitting coach.

http://tinyurl.com/5bsk4m

2008-08-05 08:13:44
455.   Ken Noe
Here's a great DT money making idea...Haunted Dodger Action Figures! If it works at Gettysburg, surely it will work at DS!

http://tinyurl.com/5eqpkx

No, I am not the seller.

2008-08-05 08:24:23
456.   Bumsrap
Who is the person that most likely said this:

"We still have to pitch, we still have to play great defense and maximize everything we do," he said. "Adding one power hitter to the lineup isn't going to drastically change what you do if you can't execute."

2008-08-05 08:25:16
457.   Pedro Astacio
Sounds like typical Jeff Kent.
2008-08-05 08:26:44
458.   arborial
this question really belongs on the previous thread regarding McDonald but...

Perhaps you can clarify for me the logic behind not sending a pitcher (Kershaw for example) to a hitter friendly league. How is getting shellacked a couple of times at the minor league level any better than the occasional shellacking at the major league level. I would think that the difference in skill level in the major leagues would more than compensate for the "hitter friendliness" of a given park or league, therefore it seems like you are actually making it harder for the prospect.

Also I understand why a park can be hitter-friendly but how is an entire league hitter-friendly, is it just a bunch of hitter-friendly parks or is it more than that?

2008-08-05 08:37:24
459.   D4P
To reiterate:

Kara Goucher (from 450 ) is exceedingly nice to look at, and gives endearing interviews.

2008-08-05 08:44:19
460.   Daniel Zappala
It seems we always have pretty interesting conversations on education. I'm sorry I missed that one, though I tend to agree with Brock. One-size-fits-all is pretty silly.

There's nothing wrong with learning algebra in the 8th grade if you are so inclined. Our math standards have become so lax, that it seems like a big deal, but it really isn't a problem if math is taught properly in elementary school.

Also, if you want to take classes at a JC (or a university) and don't want to be bothered with grades or homework -- feel free. Just audit the class. You still have to pay the fee, but you get to participate without all that bother. You'll ease the burden on the instructor, so he/she likely won't mind.

2008-08-05 08:45:50
461.   Bumsrap
With all this talk about school maybe we could actually go back to school regarding the use of then and than. Take the quiz here: http://esl.about.com/library/quiz/bl_than.htm

Maybe tomorrow we can take a look at was vs. were when following if, wish, etc.

2008-08-05 08:48:19
462.   ToyCannon
Greg Brock is wise beyond his years.
2008-08-05 08:50:31
463.   jasonungar07
With you 1000 percent Greg and I normally don't get into the serious stuff
2008-08-05 08:51:02
464.   Daniel Zappala
Brock: My required "religion" classes in Catholic high school were actually philosophy classes. In addition to Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates, we read Kant, Hume, Kierkegaard, Descartes, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, and more. Fantastic classes.
2008-08-05 08:51:07
465.   Marty
456 Larry Bowa
2008-08-05 08:51:22
466.   ToyCannon
Kent now has an OPS of .553 in the last 28 days.
Baseball in August in Saint Louis will melt the best men, how did they do it in the daytime for all those years, in those wool uniforms?
2008-08-05 08:51:52
467.   Johnny Nucleo
458 It's the altitude, for the most part.
2008-08-05 08:54:02
468.   Marty
I can scratch Florida off of the places I've never been list. Now this is humidity.
2008-08-05 08:56:31
469.   ibleedbloo
461 I got 8 out of 9 (which is strange because it says there are 10 questions). I'm not really sure what rules of English I was following; I just chose whatever sounded better. Looks like I should go study a bit and then/than maybe I'll try the test again.
2008-08-05 08:56:31
470.   gpellamjr
464 I have always found Kierkegaard very difficult to read, because of his playfulness and silliness. For very different reasons have I found Socrates even more difficult to read.
2008-08-05 09:06:21
471.   underdog
460 That's true. When I was a senior in HS I took two classes at SBCC, auditing them but getting credit for them -- a great intro to film class and a mass media class -- and thus had two less classes to take in college. And they were certainly better than anything offered to seniors at the ol' high school. I made the mistake of kind of sliding through my soph year in HS and no matter what I did after that it made it hard to get into a top college. Oh well. I had fun.

If you ever want to hear my - or better yet my sister's - rant about standardized testing do let me know. It's all quite entertaining, and depressing.

2008-08-05 09:07:06
472.   delias man
466 I think the games were much faster then. Only standing out there 2 hours instead of three would help.
2008-08-05 09:07:11
473.   Eric Stephen
466
Kent is making a mockery of our bet, trying to make me look ridiculous. And a man in my position can't afford to look ridiculous...
2008-08-05 09:15:24
474.   underdog
When it comes to philosophy, I generally believe this:

Immanuel Kant was a real ---sant
who was very rarely stable.
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out consume
Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
who was just as sloshed as Schlegel.

2008-08-05 09:15:45
475.   Ken Noe
I just got around to reading the Heyman si.com article on the trade. Interesting that he confirmed Keith Law's suggestion that Ned has been trying to move Pierre and Jones, along with a chunk of their salary. Make it so!
2008-08-05 09:18:04
476.   Eric Stephen
472
I think the games were much faster then. Only standing out there 2 hours instead of three would help

Using Baseball-Reference.com, I compared the 1958 Dodgers to the 2008 Dodgers, and the difference was smaller than I (or you) thought.

There were game times listed for 83 games of the 1958 club, and the average time was 2:36.

Through 111 games this season, the average game time is 2:55.

2008-08-05 09:21:49
477.   arborial
467 thanks
2008-08-05 09:23:43
478.   ToyCannon
473
He's probably hurt, compensating and the results are no power.

Tony Abreu may have missed the opportunity of his career and ultimately may cost the Dodgers the pennant.

2008-08-05 09:25:03
479.   Daniel Zappala
471 Any rant on standardized testing is OK by me.
2008-08-05 09:26:42
480.   ToyCannon
476
We'd be talking about 1900 - 1938 games.

Which was worse playing in the daytime in Saint Louis in August on grass, or playing at night on Astroturf after it was heated up all day?

I guess a daytime game on Astroturf would be the overall winner of the worse miserable experience a player had to endure during the silly 70's.

2008-08-05 09:27:41
481.   Bob Timmermann
I love standardized testing. Because it made me look a lot smarter than I probably truly was.

God bless standardized testing!

For the record, the answers were:
ABEEACDDEAAABCDEEAAABBCDDDEAADDCCBBB

2008-08-05 09:29:36
482.   Eric Stephen
I thought this was odd. Check out how similar these stats are for the Angels OF:

LF Anderson: 102 G, 393 AB, 112 H, 2 3B, 60 RBI, .285 BA
CF Hunter: 103 G, 391 AB, 111 H, 2 3B, 60 RBI, .284 BA
RF Guerrero: 103 G, 391 AB, 111 H, 2 3B, 60 RBI, .284 BA

2008-08-05 09:30:52
483.   underdog
481 Darnit! I memorized that backwards.

But they didn't have standardized testing to the degree they do now, where whole schools and districts are judged by how well kids can memorize BS rote facts and figures without, you know, actually learning anything, and there's no time left over for anything else half the time except for preparing for these stupid tests and... oh, I said I wouldn't rant about it. Never mind. {inhale}

2008-08-05 09:31:48
484.   Eric Stephen
When I was in high school, I was all about the grade. I was less concerned with learning the material than I was with getting an A. It probably hindered me in the long run.
2008-08-05 09:32:07
485.   Bob Timmermann
483
They told you to erase completely and not leave any stray marks.

Bob Timmermann, King of Rote Facts!

2008-08-05 09:33:03
486.   D4P
484
I was that way too, at least into undergrad. When I started my masters program, I decided to take all of my classes pass/fail, specifically so that I would focus only on learning and not at all on my grade. It helped a lot.

I try to tell my students to focus more on learning than on their grade, but they don't buy it.

2008-08-05 09:35:11
487.   Eric Stephen
486
Wait. You...teach...people???!!! :)
2008-08-05 09:35:31
488.   wronghanded
482 That is crazy. Hindsight is always 20/20 but I was personally more in the sign Hunter camp than the sign Andruw camp. Sure Hunter wanted more years but we might still have LaRoche if we went that direction. We may have traded Ethier for Manny instead and had a Manny-Hunter-Kemp OF.
2008-08-05 09:35:51
489.   gibsonhobbs88
475 - I'm not sure how much stock to put into Heyman's article. Despite Ned's best efforts, who would really want Pierre or Jones right now? Jones has almost no trade value right now with his salary and lack of production. Pierre, maybe if the Dodgers are willing to eat the majority of his contract some team might take him off our hands for a B or C prospect. I'll believe it when I hear it happen, that is what I'll go by. I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.
2008-08-05 09:36:12
490.   D4P
487
Who said anything about people...?
2008-08-05 09:36:13
491.   gpellamjr
In high school I was not at all about the grades. But GPA was terrible. I was the same way in college. Now in graduate school, my GPA is terrible.
2008-08-05 09:37:11
492.   Bumsrap
Standardized testing kept me from being drafted in the late 60's, other than that, they confuse the art of teaching/learning.
2008-08-05 09:39:00
493.   KG16
435 - uh, actually haven't decided yet if I'm going to make it. i'm very tempted, if only to put names to faces.
2008-08-05 09:42:52
494.   Bumsrap
If Ned can't trade Pierre it is only because there are no Neds working for other teams. That should at least tell McCourt something about how much freedom he should give Ned in deciding who to trade for or sign as a free agent.
2008-08-05 09:43:23
495.   berkowit28
400 (Brock - education post that started all this)

Thank you.

2008-08-05 09:46:45
496.   KG16
I've taken god knows how many standardized tests - SAT, LSAT, MPRE, Bar Exam (twice, and two more in other states coming up), 3 AP tests, off the top of my head - I always liked them because I was a quick read and have a bit of a photographic memory.

Also, getting through multiple choice questions in a third of the time as everyone else is fun. Especially at the bar exam, when you freak out all the people around you because you finish a three hour test in an hour.

2008-08-05 09:47:16
497.   Bumsrap
If Ned is really trying to trade Pierre the question becomes one of is that the reason Pierre starts over Ethier. If that is not the reason, why would Ned/Joe want to trade the only true leadoff hitter the Dodgers have available to them (in their minds).
2008-08-05 09:50:20
498.   D4P
I have seen no evidence (none!) to suggest that Management is unhappy with Pierre and wishes to get rid of him.
2008-08-05 09:53:33
499.   delias man
480 I was thinking that far back as well. Just glancing at some season stats from 20's, 30's, BAvg's were not as low as i thought back then. Simple assumption would be lees hits, quicker games.
2008-08-05 09:54:46
500.   Ghost of Carlos Perez
I always enjoy education thoughts. I'm of the opinion that most formal education of children under the age of 12-14 is a waste of time.

My experience is that a 14-year-old can learn as much math in 6 months as a kid starting at age 6 can in 8 years.

I was homeschooled, which pretty much consisted of playing outside all day, until I was 13. I find that most of the things I did not learn have been forgotten by everyone else anyway.

Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2008-08-05 09:55:50
501.   ToyCannon
Bob and Eric in case you are bored. What is the longest plate appearance streak a lead off hitter has gone without a walk?
2008-08-05 09:56:08
502.   Jon Weisman
GMs are always looking to improve their teams. The fact that certain names are mentioned in discussions isn't really significant in and of itself. That's what makes so much of the trading-deadline reporting so silly. It's imbued with all this meaning that mostly isn't there.
2008-08-05 09:58:46
503.   Bumsrap
Here is the lineup I would like to see:
Kemp, Martin, Loney, Manny, Blake, Ethier/Pierre, Hu, DeJesus.
2008-08-05 09:58:58
504.   Eric Stephen
From Buster Olney's blog on ESPN, a sort of Lincoln/Kennedy (no, not this guy: http://tinyurl.com/6ztdea) look at the 2008 Rays and 1969 Mets:

--------------

How are the 2008 Rays similar to the 1969 Mets?

On the 1969 Mets, the ace starter was 24-year-old Tom Seaver.
On the 2008 Rays, the ace starter is 24-year-old Scott Kazmir.
The 1969 Mets had a 61-101 record in 1967, two years prior to winning the World Series.
The 2008 Rays had a 61-101 record in 2006, two years ago.
The 1969 Mets had a closer, Ron Taylor, who had won a World Series (1964).
The 2008 Rays have a closer, Troy Percival, who has won a World Series (2002).
The 1969 Mets were 53-39 at the All-Star break.
The 2008 Rays were 55-39 at the All-Star break.
The 1969 Mets manager had a three-letter first name (Gil) and a six-letter last name (Hodges).
The 2008 Rays manager has a three-letter first name (Joe) and a six-letter last name (Maddon).
The 1969 Mets had a rookie as their primary third baseman (Wayne Garrett).
The 2008 Rays have a rookie as their primary third baseman (Evan Longoria)

2008-08-05 09:58:58
505.   CanuckDodger
498 -- No evidence? Faith is the evidence of things not seen. Gotta have faith.
2008-08-05 10:00:32
506.   Bob Timmermann
501
This isn't plate appearances, but Vic Davalillo played in 44 straight games as a leadoff hitter without a walk in 1967-68.

He batted in other spots during his career.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/jQvP

2008-08-05 10:00:46
507.   Greg Brock
I've mentioned this before, I think, but the superintendent of my hometown district told his child's elementary school teachers "My child doesn't do homework. We got to parks and museums and concerts. So if you're going to give my kid failing grades on his report card, don't bother giving him a report card. We don't care."

THE SUPERINTENDENT!

2008-08-05 10:01:07
508.   D4P
GMs are always looking to improve their teams

Unless they're covert double-agents working on behalf of their team's arch-rival.

2008-08-05 10:01:09
509.   ToyCannon
Blake DeWitt 1 for 16 since his competition was traded after his hot start to his AAA career.
2008-08-05 10:02:52
510.   Daniel Zappala
I excelled at standardized testing, but it didn't seem to have any correlation to what I learned. I firmly believe that it is not possible for a multiple-choice test to determine how smart you are or how much you learned.

My focus in school was on learning, but a love of learning also led me to have excellent grades. I never found a conflict between the two, because I was perfectly willing to do assignments and follow directions.

2008-08-05 10:03:15
511.   Bob Timmermann
If it's a single season, Mickey Rivers had 178 straight PAs as a leadoff hitter without a walk for the Yankees in 1978. Rivers did bat 2nd at times during his streak and drew walks (2) in that slot.
2008-08-05 10:06:00
512.   MC Safety
Trainwreck needs better hallucinogens. He's not hanging out with the right hippies. Mushrooms are for kids. 4 or 5 hours is barely enough to watch a movie (if you're that brave). I'd recommend a 10 to 12 hour introduction, you get a much better idea of the way things work.
2008-08-05 10:07:12
513.   Hallux Valgus
450 459 This is probably no longer relevant, but I know Kara and her husband, and they are both amazingly nice people, to the point that I can't even find her attractive without feeling guilty. I went to college with her, and we used to tailgate at her cross country meets, because it was just about the only sport we were good at. Runners appreciate when you grill sausages and drink beer at 5 AM, I've found.
2008-08-05 10:07:19
514.   Daniel Zappala
Homework can be good for elementary kids. Rote practice helps to memorize math facts, which are essential if you hope to move on to more abstract math. But even more importantly, homework gives parents a chance to see how their kids are doing with their school work. My kids' teachers see 32 kids in the morning, then 32 different ones in the afternoon, on a split schedule. They don't catch the fact that my child didn't learn something. I catch it when I do homework with them, and then I teach them that concept.

I also do museums and parks and concerts, and we read a lot of good books together, but I wouldn't completely remove homework from the equation.

2008-08-05 10:08:20
515.   Daniel Zappala
My opinions on elementary education can be summed up pretty succinctly as: (1) class sizes are far too large, (2) parents are not involved enough with their kids.
2008-08-05 10:09:05
516.   ToyCannon
511
Thanks and strange. I always thought Pierre was the Mickey Rivers of the 21st century.
2008-08-05 10:10:43
517.   D4P
513
Thanks for sharing that. I seem to remember seeing her husband run for Colorado back at a meet in Eugene in the 90s some time. He was really good, and won his race by a huge margin. I had never heard of Kara until today when I ran across an article about 2008 Olympians.
2008-08-05 10:11:33
518.   CanuckDodger
509 -- About DeWitt, on a message board for Indians' fans I read something quite surprising, if it is true. Cleveland's front office is considered pretty saber-inclined, and the argument has been made by people just looking at minor league stats that LaRoche is bound to be a better MLB hitter than DeWitt, but an Indians' fan claims that the MLB.com reporter who covers the Indians said that the Indians' front office thinks more highly of DeWitt than LaRoche. Quite interesting -- if true.
2008-08-05 10:11:53
519.   D4P
My kids' teachers see 32 kids

Half of whom are Zappalas.

2008-08-05 10:12:13
520.   Eric Stephen
516
"I felt alone out there, like I was on a desert island. I felt like Gilligan."

-Mickey Rivers' response to playing left field for the first time

More good Mickey Rivers quotes here:

http://tinyurl.com/6halr9

2008-08-05 10:13:04
521.   Greg Brock
514 I agree that some homework is necessary. But I love that story!

Elementary teachers have kids for six hours a day, five days a week. If you can't teach a child the essentials with that much time, you are a terrible teacher.

2008-08-05 10:13:55
522.   herchyzer
305 . If it were a baseball-crime/heist movie it could be called "The Suicide Squeeze."
2008-08-05 10:14:02
523.   Greg Brock
My class size went up to 39 this year. So that's fun.
2008-08-05 10:15:10
524.   Hallux Valgus
517 If you're a running fan, perhaps you've heard her maiden name of Kara Grgas-Wheeler?
2008-08-05 10:16:30
525.   Hallux Valgus
523 Oy vey. What do you teach? My brother just finished 8th grade and they had 45 odd kids for 3 classes.
2008-08-05 10:18:53
526.   D4P
524
I'm really only a "running fan" around the Olympics, and hadn't heard her maiden name either. It's fun that they live in Oregon and are coached by Alberto Salazar, somewhat of a local celebrity when I was a kid.

Her face is well-nigh perfect. My wife has the same jawline.

2008-08-05 10:19:31
527.   Eric Stephen
Whether or not we think standardized tests or class sizes are important, we can all agree that it's imperative to get a good education.

Otherwise, you might end up like this guy:

http://tinyurl.com/6pl8vv (SFW)

2008-08-05 10:19:57
528.   D4P
523
I taught a class this past semester that had 70 students. It had 30 each of the previous two times I taught it.

70 was way too many. My course evaluations were much worse, even though I know without a doubt that the course was much better.

2008-08-05 10:20:18
529.   Bob Timmermann
305
Six kids, trapped in an inner-city hell. Baseball was their only salvation. They needed help. They needed to find a new home. They needed a ... Productive Out.
2008-08-05 10:20:57
530.   Who Is Karim Garcia
I've taught elementary school for 5 years thus far, and have similar experience with homework and parents. The word "homework" has such a bad reputation, but parents need to understand- and most do- that learning needs to extend to the home and homework is reinforcement and review. It shouldn't be a chore or take up the whole day, in my opinion, and should be fairly simple and something that the child can complete fairly independently.

I know many of my kids have their parents take them to museums, concerts, plays and other enrichment type activities. While I appreciate that, I have to say that it isn't enough. The HW is specifically designed to reinforce key parts of the curriculum as well as involve parents in the classroom activities.

2008-08-05 10:21:07
531.   Greg Brock
525 AP American History and Philosophy.

Philosophy is an elective, so I get all four grades in that class. The freshman are like new fish at Shawshank, trying not to make eye contact and hoping not to be noticed by the seniors.

The difference between a high school freshman and a senior can be measured in decades.

2008-08-05 10:23:19
532.   Eric Stephen
529
"In a world gone wrong, they're trying to hit to the right side...of the tracks."
2008-08-05 10:25:00
533.   Greg Brock
530 Less than an hour a day, right?
2008-08-05 10:27:12
534.   D4P
532
"With the deck stacked against them, they end up in St. Louis, and find favor with...the Cards."
2008-08-05 10:28:12
535.   regfairfield
518 It is, just remember that Kenny Lofton might be the best hitter they've acquired in the last few years.
2008-08-05 10:28:25
536.   Hallux Valgus
531 39 kids for an AP class? That's absurd. Praise Allah for Catholic education.

On Saturday, I was forced to witness the difference between a freshman boy and a freshman girl. It was the most uncomfortable thing imaginable. I can't imagine a "senior" or even a sophomore involved. I'm not sorry I'm done with that.

2008-08-05 10:28:27
537.   Eric Stephen
"They're saving the world...one sacrifice at a time."
2008-08-05 10:29:05
538.   cargill06
My guess is Dre will get a sympothy start tonight, so here's my guess....

1. Kemp
2. Blake
3. Martin
4. Manny
5. Loney
6. Kent
7. Ethier
8. Ozuna
9. The studliest pitcher in baseball.

2008-08-05 10:29:56
539.   Daniel Zappala
Homework for elementary school kids should definitely be less than an hour a day. Two of my (16?) kids are in accelerated learning classes. The idea is to move them through the material at a faster pace, and they do move faster, almost a grade ahead, but it also typically means heavy homework. They were in 3rd and 6th grade last year, and had an hour minimum, but many nights with 3 - 5 hours. I have come to loathe "projects".
2008-08-05 10:31:57
540.   D4P
Two of my (16?) kids

I bet it's easy to lose track.

2008-08-05 10:32:19
541.   bagg4
So far Manny has been exciting...

There's been much discussion of who did what to bring him to LA...I don't really care. The overcrowded outfield is another issue. Most of the bloggers and some of the beat writers are questioning Pierre's place in the batting order (1, 2, or 8) and the lack of consistent playing time for Ethier. When is McCourt going to realize that the emperor (Torre) and his court jester (Colletti) are not wearing any clothes?

2008-08-05 10:33:30
542.   D4P
"In a world of lies, they learn the meaning of honest...at bats."
2008-08-05 10:34:20
543.   Who Is Karim Garcia
530

Depends on the age level. My second graders get work fro about 25 minutes a day at the beginning of the year and work up to about 40 minutes of work.

Each night is 1 HW piece, 1 phonics, 1 short writing (an interesting picture that I pull from yahoo news) and teh kids tell me a story about the picture, and reading log which makes them read for 20 minutes and have parents sign the log.

I give the entire HW packet for the week on Monday and collect it back on the following Monday. I give kids and parents ample time to do it.

2008-08-05 10:35:27
544.   D4P
BTW - My movie taglines are being read by this guy: http://tinyurl.com/5mr9ha
2008-08-05 10:37:38
545.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2008-08-05 10:37:52
546.   Greg Brock
Five hours of homework for a child under 10 is criminal.

I give the entire HW packet for the week on Monday and collect it back on the following Monday. I give kids and parents ample time to do it.

That is so cool.

2008-08-05 10:39:23
547.   Hallux Valgus
539 Do you think it's worth it? The kid I own is a rising freshman with 2 sophomore level classes (1 honors), and another honors English class. I think it's good for the obvious reasons, but I worry that he's taking on too much and it won't matter going forward, at least enough to make a difference for college.
2008-08-05 10:41:20
548.   Daniel Zappala
543 I am a huge - HUGE - fan of homework packets that come once per week. There are some nights when homework is not possible, and I hate it when teachers give something due the next day. I will personally visit teachers and tell them, sorry, but my child will not have time to do that in one day, but will gladly turn it in a few days later.
2008-08-05 21:08:14
549.   MollyKnight
Do you send Kemp here? Tie game and on the road?

I kind of think so.

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