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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Puff 'n' Stuff
2008-08-07 07:18
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Manny Ramirez passed Ernie Banks and Eddie Matthews on the career home run list Wednesday. I know those guys aren't as high on the charts when they used to be when I was a kid, but passing Banks and Matthews (and Mel Ott, too)? That still makes me go wow.

Here's where Ramirez sits:

521 Willie McCovey
521 Ted Williams
520 Frank Thomas
513 Manny Ramirez
512 Ernie Banks
512 Eddie Matthews
511 Mel Ott
504 Eddie Murray

  • James McDonald struck out 10 in six innings in his AAA Las Vegas debut Wednesday. He gave up two walks, a single and a solo homer.

  • Though 2008 first-round pick Ethan Martin had to undergo knee surgery recently, 2007 first-round pick Chris Withrow was activated to pitch at Class A Inland Empire, according to Diamond Leung of the Press-Enterprise. Withrow had been needing some elbow zoom.

  • The thing I don't get about Wednesday's protest-inspiring incident is, even if he didn't know rule 3.08(a), section 2, why would Mark Sweeney step in the batters' box if there was doubt about Joe Torre wanting him to enter the game?

  • After reading this Hardball Times story, play the Baseball Ethics game.

  • Comments (90)
    Show/Hide Comments 1-50
    2008-08-07 07:43:06
    1.   JoeyP
    294 -- You're only saying that because DeJesus walked four times last night, in five plate appearances (in his only official AB he singled).:)

    Can DeJesus now be considered the Puerto Rican God of Walks?

    2008-08-07 07:51:13
    2.   Ken Noe
    So Ethier or JP today? Torre logic suggests Pierre--he got a walk, Ethier had an off-night, gotta placate the sullen PVL. But then I notice a glowing Ethier article on the official website. Plus I assume we'll have Ardoin behind the plate. Could be interesting.

    http://tinyurl.com/6ke7rs

    2008-08-07 07:57:49
    3.   D4P
    Hard to imagine Torre benching Pierre 3 games in a row.
    2008-08-07 08:02:16
    4.   Michael Green
    In the for what it's worth department, Mel Ott was the childhood idol of one Vincent Edward Scully.

    And according to Jim Murray, one of the only two Dodger players Vin ever disliked was Eddie Murray. What a pairing!

    The other player, by the way, was the pitcher Mike Marshall. Who ever would have thought that ....

    2008-08-07 08:04:58
    5.   okdodge
    2 Sometimes I think we need a "jump to conclusions" board on the sidebar when it comes to speculating about lineups.
    2008-08-07 08:05:37
    6.   okdodge
    Appropriate ad for those who were considering El Torrito on the last thread.
    2008-08-07 08:07:52
    7.   Jon Weisman
    4 - Mel Ott I knew about, but I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where Jim Murray voiced who Vin Scully's least favorite players were. When did that happen?
    2008-08-07 08:09:06
    8.   DXMachina
    I can remember when Ott was fourth on the list.
    2008-08-07 08:14:06
    9.   Sharkie
    Sweeney is a veteran. He knows how to win.
    2008-08-07 08:17:22
    10.   twerp
    Can anyone confirm a report that Maddux cleared waivers and/or update any Dodger interest in him? Thx.
    2008-08-07 08:19:46
    11.   Kris F
    "elbow zoom"? Clever!
    2008-08-07 08:20:01
    12.   Cliff Corcoran
    1 Or "OBP DeJesus"

    I'm disappointed to find out that this post has nothing to do with Graig Nettles.

    2008-08-07 08:22:44
    13.   Ken Noe
    5 Gee, and I thought my point was that I couldn't come to a conclusion.
    2008-08-07 08:30:14
    14.   okdodge
    13 - I understood that, I was just saying it would make things easier, while at the same time throwing out an Office Space reference since I missed the fun in the last thread.
    2008-08-07 08:32:54
    15.   cargill06
    10 Peter Gammons is reporting the issue is who is picking up the remaining of his $2.5 million dollar salary.

    Peter seems to think we have money issue's, and hearing McCourt compalin about the attendance, it maybe real.

    2008-08-07 08:35:45
    16.   Ken Noe
    14 Gotcha, excuse my confusion.
    2008-08-07 08:37:39
    17.   underdog
    15 McCourt has money issues, and Gammons has Manny issues.

    --

    cool to hear Withrow's finally getting some action. Hope he has a lot of grease for that elbow zoom.

    Go Kershaw!

    2008-08-07 08:39:36
    18.   D4P
    And Manny has many issues.
    2008-08-07 08:40:47
    19.   underdog
    And Leon's getting laaaarger!
    2008-08-07 08:43:13
    20.   LogikReader
    Dumb question:

    If the Dodgers finish below .500, with all the moves Ned Colletti made, will Ned make it to 2009?

    2008-08-07 08:48:08
    21.   Ken Noe
    20 I think your bar is low. Anything less than a playoff series victory and Ned is still out, I think. Even Ned is now talking about how McCourt and the entire staff brought in Manny, so I don't think that deal saves him.
    2008-08-07 08:49:15
    22.   Eric Stephen
    19
    Nice!

    It took me about 5 minutes to understand the Repozian headline, but I finally got it! :)

    My slowness this morning is to be blamed on last night's DT After Dark. I normally don't work blue, but it got a little weird last night, especially after the Sherpas showed up.

    2008-08-07 08:57:00
    23.   Eric Stephen
    I wonder what the chances are of Manny Ramirez leading the club in HR. It's got to be pretty slim, but something like 15 more HR from him (in 49 games) is not out of the question.

    Hopefully Kemp and his current 13 HR renders this discussion moot by getting into the 20s.

    2008-08-07 09:01:26
    24.   Jon Weisman
    22 - There may be less thought process behind that headline than you are giving me credit for.
    2008-08-07 09:04:18
    25.   arborial
    1 that reminds me of a question I had,

    What is the most walks a player has drawn in a single game?

    Timmermann I am looking in your direction.

    2008-08-07 09:05:22
    26.   underdog
    This blog post is a Sid and Marty Krofft Production. Straight outta Lidsville, man!

    --

    Btw, little known fact around here but I went to the same high school as Eddie Matthews. Thank you.

    2008-08-07 09:05:34
    27.   Jon Weisman
    Lineup:
    Pierre, CF
    Kemp, RF
    Kent, 2B
    Ramirez, LF
    Loney, 1B
    Blake, 3B
    Berroa, SS
    Ardoin, C
    Kershaw, P
    2008-08-07 09:09:18
    28.   Eric Stephen
    25
    Since 1956:

    Andre Thornton (1984) and Jeff Bagwell (1999) each had 6 walks, but each was in an extra inning game.

    There have been 61 games with 5 walks during that time.

    2008-08-07 09:11:00
    29.   Sharkie
    Nice lineup. JP and Kent in the top three. So therefore this means Kershaw doesn't know how to win ;)
    2008-08-07 09:11:13
    30.   ibleedbloo
    Anyone here familiar with Citizen's Bank Park in Philly? I will be there on 8/22 and I am considering a few different ticket options from EBay and Stub Hub. Does anyone know if the 300 sections are significantly better than the 400's? Are the 400's as far away as the Top Deck at Dodger Stadium, or would they be more comparable to the Reserved Level?

    Any help or advice is appreciated.

    2008-08-07 09:13:55
    31.   underdog
    I think we knew Pierre and Kent would be in today's day game, especially since the latter rested yesterday. Would be nice if he actually does what he used to do all the time, you know, hit. I am glad that Russ gets a couple of days off though, regardless of what happens today; he's really looked tired this week. At the plate and behind it. Hopefully when I see him in SF on Friday he's back to his old self!
    2008-08-07 09:15:06
    32.   D4P
    Kent in the #3 spot is just silly. Doesn't mean it won't work out, but still.
    2008-08-07 09:16:36
    33.   Sharkie
    Russ hasn't been rested as much as I would have like. I know they need his bat in the lineup, but if he gets worn out by early August, then what's the point? Hope he sharpens up for the weekend.
    2008-08-07 09:18:17
    34.   Eric Stephen
    25 ,28
    ...and the last player to receive 5 walks in a 9-inning game was Jim Thome, in April 2007.

    http://tinyurl.com/5wqrjp

    2008-08-07 09:20:57
    35.   Eric Stephen
    31
    Doesn't Russ only get one day off? The Dodgers play tomorrow night in SF.

    Of course, we all know Martin will be in today's game by the 7th anyway! :)

    2008-08-07 09:29:14
    36.   jasonungar07
    "A big part of [Ramirez's] protection [in Boston] came from the guys ahead of him. If he hits without runners on base, there's no guarantee what his average will be, or his patience. Guys at the top of the order, it's important for them to get on base to get him the pitch to hit.

    12 hours later, maybe?......

    2008 OB%
    Pierre .325 (.294 from leadoff)
    Kent .306 (.278 hitting 3rd)

    2008-08-07 09:32:00
    37.   D4P
    I'm assuming Torre thinks Kent will get More Pitches To Hit™ with Manny batting behind him.

    But I think we've successfully debunked this myth around here, and in fact, Martin's small sample size experience thus far suggests that hitters who are expecting a diet of meaty fastballs down the middle might actually harm their performance by being overly aggressive and swinging at everything.

    2008-08-07 09:36:10
    38.   Eric Stephen
    Ardoin has caught 3 of Kershaw's 11 starts, and they were all in a row:

    6/15 @ Det: 4 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 2/2 BB/K (the rain delay game)
    6/20 vs. Cle: 5 IP, 4 H, 4 R, 3/5 BB/K
    6/26 vs. CWS: 4 IP, 6 H, 2 R, 4/3 BB/K, Loss

    Small sample size of course, but here's the split:

    w/Ardoin: 13 IP, 12 H, 6 R, 9/10 BB/K, 4.15 ERA, 1.62 WHIP
    w/Martin: 40.2 IP, 45 H, 18 R, 20/33 BB/K, 3.98 ERA, 1.60 WHIP

    Not much difference there I guess.

    2008-08-07 09:45:43
    39.   regfairfield
    36 So far the guys hitting in front of Manny have been horrible except for Kemp so I'm thinking that effect's being a bit overstated.
    2008-08-07 09:51:00
    40.   Eric Stephen
    For those that are interested, the Red Sox were the team that claimed Brian Giles from the Padres. It appears the move was only to block him from going to Tampa (or the Angels, but that probably wouldn't happen). Sox have 48 hours to work out a trade with the Padres, but it's unlikely.

    Giles is not in the lineup for today's game at Shea.

    http://tinyurl.com/6ms7pe

    2008-08-07 09:52:10
    41.   Eric Stephen
    If a PGA Championship falls in the forest with no one around, does it make a sound?
    2008-08-07 09:52:50
    42.   D4P
    41
    I've been watching online all morning.
    2008-08-07 09:59:57
    43.   Eric Stephen
    Looks like the D-Backs, fresh off extending Haren, are looking to do the same for their ace as well.

    Apparently both sides agreed on a 3/$54m extension, with an option for 2014. However, Webb and the club are disagreeing over some minor issues and the deal is off, for now.

    I'm guessing part of the $54m is the exercising of Webb's $8.5m 2010 option. In fact, they might also add money to Webb's 2009 ($6.5m) and 2010 salary as well, as they did with Haren's deal.

    http://tinyurl.com/6q2f8d

    2008-08-07 10:02:34
    44.   regfairfield
    If we claimed Maddux on waivers, is there any compelling reason for the Padres to not just dump his salary on us? Barring a new level of boneheadedness from Ned they wouldn't get more than a PBTNL anyway. Would McCourt blow a fuse if he had to increase the payroll to accommodate Maddux?
    2008-08-07 10:05:50
    45.   Eric Stephen
    44
    I think for that reason, the Dodgers won't claim Maddux. They already have exclusivity anyway, in that he won't go to any other team, so McCourt's not going to add another $2.5m if he doesn't have to.
    2008-08-07 10:07:21
    46.   regfairfield
    Remember when there was an argument over whether or not Jacoby Ellsbury or Matt Kemp was more valuable? Those were the days.
    2008-08-07 10:13:39
    47.   ToyCannon
    Hold your hand up if you thought that the Ludwick fairy tale season was crashing to earth headed into the all-star game and are completely shocked to see this man still healthy, still banging.

    McGwire, Edmunds, Duncan, Pujols, Ludwick, Ankiel, and Rolen. They seem to know something in Saint Louis about physics. Big guys hit the ball a long way. Small guys play middle infield and are not allowed in chemistry class.

    2008-08-07 10:15:39
    48.   jasonungar07
    I would have liked to see Blake up there instead of Kent and Pierre nowhere near leadoff.
    2008-08-07 10:15:45
    49.   regfairfield
    47 Stupid things I've said about this season:

    The Cardinals are a worse team than the Pirates. They have nothing outside of Pujols.
    The White Sox are a suicidal organization.

    At least I predicted the horrible demise of the Padres.

    2008-08-07 10:16:28
    50.   gibsonhobbs88
    9 - If Ethier or Kemp or one of our young players did that when sent in as a pinch hitter, Plaschke and Simers would be having a field day of "kids not listening" and "kids not getting it", however when our veterans pull a bonehead mental mistake, we hear nary a peep from management or the writers.
    Also, on a night when we really needed at least an average game from Lowe, 6 innings 3 ER, we get that putrid performance. On a night when we actually generated some offense against a Cardinal SP for a change. Will we ever win a game again in the mound city in my lifetime? The Blue always seem to invent a new way to lose there. I feel bad for Kershaw today, my guess, they will lose 3-1 to Kyle Lohse and won't recover till they get to SF.
    Show/Hide Comments 51-100
    2008-08-07 10:16:42
    51.   Eric Stephen
    Posnanski's piece on Pujols today is great, per usual. I loved this excerpt:

    Mauer's No. 1 comp after last year was a catcher from the 1920s and 1930s named Shanty Hogan, who hit .333 in 1928 in his first year for John McGraw and the New York Giants and was, apparently, known for his remarkable appetite. He was apparently nicknamed "Shanty" because at 6-foot-1, 240 he looked like a small hut. God, I love baseball.

    2008-08-07 10:17:53
    52.   regfairfield
    The best part is that PrOPS actually has Ludwick under performing right now.
    2008-08-07 10:18:21
    53.   D4P
    The White Sox are a suicidal organization

    That's not necessarily a stupid thing to say.

    2008-08-07 10:18:26
    54.   Eric Stephen
    49
    When in doubt, its always best to have the correct one be in our division and be beneficial to the Dodgers. :)
    2008-08-07 10:18:31
    55.   ToyCannon
    46
    Yeah, because Matt has been so awesome that he's been outhit by the Hairston brothers.
    2008-08-07 10:20:21
    56.   regfairfield
    53 It was in the context of "why go for it when the Indians and Tigers are near unstoppable".

    55 Who knew Jerry Hairston was doing that this year?

    2008-08-07 10:20:46
    57.   Disabled List
    49 My fantabulous prediction in 2008: Seattle would win the AL West, Detroit would roll in the AL Central, and Cleveland would be the wild card. Ha ha. Ho. Hrm.

    I was right about the Rays and D-backs, though. And unfortunately, looks like I was right about the Dodgers not being much better than a .500 team.

    2008-08-07 10:21:17
    58.   LogikReader
    The last time the Dodgers won a series in StL was during 2003, arguably their worst offensive season of the decade.

    Of course MLB always schedules us to play in St Louis when the city is at its hottest.

    Fix!!!!!

    2008-08-07 10:21:34
    59.   Eric Stephen
    55 ,56
    I don't want to have to break up a True Blue LA fight, here!
    2008-08-07 10:21:35
    60.   Ken Noe
    47 I have him on my fantasy team--and benched him after the break. One reason why I'm in last place in my division.
    2008-08-07 10:25:39
    61.   cargill06
    49 I would compile a list of foolish things I've said over the last 8 months, but I may crash the server.
    2008-08-07 10:27:12
    62.   cargill06
    Fantasy question, I have kind of a wasted spot on my roster. I picked up Meloan in hopes he gets a shot at the closers role soon, any shot of that happening?
    2008-08-07 10:28:48
    63.   Jon Weisman
    The 2010 Pittsburgh Pirates:

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=7914

    2008-08-07 10:32:02
    64.   GMac In The 909
    20 A few nights ago, I had a dream -- nightmare? -- that the Dodgers finished 82-80, one game behind the first-place Diamondbacks. Arizona lost the final game of the year, but the Dodgers did too, 12-2. Almost immediately after the final pitch, McCourt fired NedCo.
    2008-08-07 10:32:37
    65.   ToyCannon
    61 I still think Andruw Jones is going to be a difference maker. If you are going to be wrong you might as well go all in, none of this seeing the landslide and heading back to safer ground. Just jump on that rock and ride it down into oblivion.

    One big hit in Sept is what I'm pinning my hopes on now.

    2008-08-07 10:32:45
    66.   Eric Stephen
    Manny Ramirez has had at least two hits in all 5 games as a Dodger.

    There have only been 22 streaks of 2+ hits longer than Manny's (who can forget when Jose Cruz was on fire in 2005?). The longest streak of such games was by Duke Snider's 8-gamer in 1959.

    http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/jSM9

    2008-08-07 10:33:05
    67.   regfairfield
    63 Interesting, it would be amazing if the Pirates could turn it around that fast because I had them as a five year rebuild project.

    Anyone know how Alvarez and McCutchen project defensively?

    2008-08-07 10:33:39
    68.   D4P
    I still think Andruw Jones is going to be a difference maker

    He already has been.

    2008-08-07 10:34:55
    69.   Daniel Zappala
    The Dodgers can still make my prediction of 97 wins this season, but they're going to need to stop losing. For the rest of the season.
    2008-08-07 10:35:46
    70.   Daniel Zappala
    65 I'm with you on Andruw Jones recovering his stroke. It might not be till next year, though.
    2008-08-07 10:36:56
    71.   ToyCannon
    67
    Don't they have to sign Alvarez 1st? I've heard he will move across the diamond so in a way Andy will be getting rid of his brother.
    2008-08-07 10:38:08
    72.   ToyCannon
    68
    I totally knew you were going to say that as I was writing my comment.
    2008-08-07 10:42:16
    73.   regfairfield
    71 Good point. They'd also be way short on depth so my five year estimate probably is still right.
    2008-08-07 10:45:25
    74.   D4P
    72
    Did Daniel know I was gonna say this:

    I'm with you on Andruw Jones recovering his stroke

    I believe you mean recovering from his stroke...

    2008-08-07 10:46:49
    75.   Eric Stephen
    69
    As far as I can tell, the best 49-game stretch in LA Dodger history is 36-13, accomplished by both the 1974 & 1985 teams.*

    The Dodgers merely have to go 41-8 to finish with your predicted record. But if they merely tie the record, my 92-70 prediction wins the day.

    *I skipped some years, so its possible (but not likely) there was a better streak.

    2008-08-07 10:49:43
    76.   Eric Stephen
    75
    For reference, the Belichickian 1951 Giants finished the season 37-7.
    2008-08-07 10:51:05
    77.   twerp
    5 okdodge "Sometimes I think we need a "jump to conclusions" board on the sidebar when it comes to speculating about lineups"

    The other day I told my wife that if it weren't for jumping to conclusions, she'd get no exercise at all. She took a bit of exception. I replied that if it weren't for overreaction, she'd have no reactions at all.

    Well...now that I have the last of my stuff moved into the storage building and Internet reestablished out here, it occurs to me that folks who get hyper over bad games or bad streaks, or bad or unlucky GM or managerial moves--or even hyper over good news like Manny has been--are kind of like her. (And, yeah, I'm kind of a slow learner sometimes.) :-)))

    Sometimes on DT--and often far worse elsewhere--it sounds like the Dodgers won't win another game ever, and Dodger management is the stupidest out there (probably not, tho sometimes it might be close). Or, now that Manny's here, he'll hit two 7-run homers every game and winning the WS is just a formality.

    Whatever happened to taking the good with the bad and enjoying the game for the great thing it is? It's generally true that every team will lose a third and win a third of its games over a season; the other third determine who goes to the playoffs. Whatever happened to that kind of perspective?

    I think sports radio and TV sports talk shows where the main requirement is to have an instant and strong (if probably uninformed) opinion on whatever subject is being discussed is what drives the scapegoating and negative tone of a lot of sports talk generally. Management usually likes on-air controversy, since it drives TV ratings and attracts listeners (and also helps sell papers). Often people who comment follow the obnoxious tone and example they've seen or heard in media--not always a good thing. Plus, most callers/commenters are anonymous, which emboldens many.

    There's nothing wrong with strong opinions. But they don't have to be expressed strongly, at least not all the time.

    I don't get to see as much of DT as I'd like, and don't comment much. Occasionally I'm stunned at the quality and depth of the conversations here. At other times, not so much. Only rarely do any DT commenters come close to replacement level, IMO. BTW, this is meant to be general; I have no specific comment/commenter/s in mind.

    Yeah, the Dodgers have a 20-year record of futility, underachieved in many ways by many people, not just the current regime. And this year may not work out too well. But the team is a long way from out of it yet, and strange things can and do happen. There's still time, but things do need to turn more in the right direction soon. Yeah, it's frustrating to have to wait year after year, moreso if this year doesn't turn out differently.

    But what was it some GM said recently? The Dodgers have the most talent of any team in the NL. The future is bright, whenever it arrives.

    2008-08-07 10:53:33
    78.   silverwidow
    Who gets DFA tomorrow: Falkenborg or Johnson?

    And, no, Troncoso isn't going down when he's pitching so well.

    2008-08-07 10:54:11
    79.   Eric Stephen
    For those fascinated with bizarre lineups, here is a portion of today's Mets lineup:

    5. Fernando Tatis RF
    6. Dan Murphy LF
    7. Robinson Cancel C
    8. Nick Evans 1B

    2008-08-07 10:54:43
    80.   Eric Stephen
    78
    My money's on JJJ.
    2008-08-07 10:54:43
    81.   dsfan
    Manny's final hit for the Dodgers will knock Colletti into the unemployment line. When Frank and Jamie realize they don't have the payroll flexibility to keep Manny from going to the Yankees, the full magnitude of Ned's wasteful spending will come to bear.
    2008-08-07 10:57:15
    82.   Eric Stephen
    Quick prediction: Kershaw gets his first major league hit today.
    2008-08-07 11:06:34
    83.   Tripon
    Quick prediction: Kent gets 3 singles today with nobody on.
    2008-08-07 11:07:10
    84.   Jon Weisman
    77 -I'm on board with that.
    2008-08-07 11:13:28
    85.   Jon Weisman
    NPUT
    2008-08-07 11:14:20
    86.   cargill06
    Quick Prediction: Kyle Loshe will remember that he is Kyle Loshe
    2008-08-07 11:18:25
    87.   underdog
    Game thread above ya!
    2008-08-07 11:20:50
    88.   goofus
    I know it's Rosenthal (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8419620?MSNHPHMA) but I still like it when he says Pierre can clear Waivers and the dodgers would only have to pay half his salary ($15,000,000) to get some team to take him. If I were the Dodger owner, I'd be all over that. He mentions other players that can be had. I wouldn't mind picking up Randy Winn (at least he'd quit hurting us) IF we didn't already have more outfielders than concession servers in the stadium. Come to think of it, we could utilize Pierre running up and down the aisles selling ice cream, and Andruw drawing beers. He looks like he's had a lot of practice...
    2008-08-07 11:32:05
    89.   JayB
    81 I agree; there will be a half-hearted attempt by the McCourts to retain Manny to appease the fans. There are just too many players to re-sign, or positions to fill in the off season, for the McCourts to put into the kind of Manny-money that Boras will require.
    2008-08-07 16:30:20
    90.   Michael Green
    Jon, sorry to come back in so far down the list. Murray made a reference to that in his autobiography, I believe. I could be wrong.

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