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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

You Know It's True
2008-08-09 22:51
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

The one-eyed man is king in the land of the blind, which is certainly an interesting place for a Dodger squad with the facial stability of Mr. Potatohead to be.

It was a team loss tonight: rough situational hitting, shaky defense and one double too many allowed to Dave Roberts. Arizona lost even bigger, dropping not only a home game but losing their star second baseman, Orlando Hudson, to a serious wrist injury.

The Dodgers are still trying to get all the pieces in the right place, still trying to plug those holes. It's an endlessly fascinating game ...

Comments (106)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-09 23:01:56
1.   Kevin Lewis
I'm on board with 534 of the last thread. Tonight was just baseball being baseball.
2008-08-09 23:01:57
2.   sporky
I'm grateful that I have endless Olympics footage to occupy myself with.
2008-08-09 23:04:40
3.   gpellamjr
I don't know why, but I feel extremely confident about the Dodgers' chances after this game. It probably has a lot to do with Ethier's being allowed to start, Kuroda's awesome game, Kemp's awesome arm, Manny's general awesomeness, and the hope that Kent's HR tonight is a sign of good things to come.

And I am extremely grateful to the Braves for hammering Arizona this series.

2008-08-09 23:05:30
4.   sporky
546 The Korean peninsula thanks Phelps for sitting that one out. 'Cause, you know, South Koreans are the biggest whiners when it comes to losing in an Olympic competition.
2008-08-09 23:07:02
5.   Alex41592
1 - Baseball being baseball. That's exactly what happened tonight.

Ethier's ball that may have hit the line as well is something to think about.

Also, Ethier vs. Matt Cain: 11 for 19.

2008-08-09 23:09:23
6.   Andrew Shimmin
4- I think Phelps could have beaten the Australian woman, too, if the IOC weren't such prudes.
2008-08-09 23:13:04
7.   whodat807
4 I was about to respond to you by pointing out how Korea wuz robbed in the men's individual gymnastics competition in Athens and how Ohno's a little **bag cheater, but (being Korean and all), I guess that'd only prove your point.

I'm excited to see Phelps v. Park in the 200 free, though I'm rather certain Phelps will dominate like he does in every race he's in. I bet he could probably race in every single swimming event that doesn't require synchronization, but the man has only so many hours in the day, I suppose.

2008-08-09 23:16:19
8.   Greg Brock
7 Since S. Korea is the beneficiary of the greatest travesty in Olympic history, we'll call it even.
2008-08-09 23:16:52
9.   sporky
7 I was referring to comment 41 in this thread.

http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com/archives/1088554.html

2008-08-09 23:17:06
10.   Alex41592
The Rays are in the exact same situation the Dodgers were in. Bases loaded and one out in the 10th inning. Replace Broxton with Bradford and Rowand with Beltre.
2008-08-09 23:18:09
11.   Alex41592
Joe Madden is playing 5 infielders. With Upton playing behind second base.
2008-08-09 23:19:29
12.   Alex41592
5-2-3 DP. Rays get out of it.
2008-08-09 23:20:16
13.   whodat807
8 I'm not saying Korea's the only country to be robbed; it's just my opinion that everybody's got a right to complain about these things. Isn't that what sports, and by extension, comment boards on blogs about sports, are about?
2008-08-09 23:21:13
14.   sporky
12 Sigh.
2008-08-09 23:21:21
15.   thinkblue88
12.

Three old friends involved in that play.

2008-08-09 23:22:52
16.   ToyCannon
Russel Martin with a 638 OPS since the all-star game and his BABIP at .328 is higher so he's not hitting into bad luck.

Brian McCann on the other hand has been a beast. The conversation about who the best catcher in the NL is should be a short one this winter. I don't know if this is a faulty memory but the Russel Martin playing defense these days does not remind me of the Russel Martin who was playing defense in 2006. Good thing he can still take a walk because that is the only part of his game these days that is above average at the moment. Hopefully he collects a 2nd wind otherwise we are in trouble if continues to pull a LaDuca.

2008-08-09 23:25:48
17.   Chiron Brown
8 Tell that to the 1972 U.S.A. basketball team.
2008-08-09 23:28:35
18.   Greg Brock
17 Ha. I knew that was coming. I think Park Si Hun over Roy Jones was worse.

The basketball game was remotely close. The Jones fight was a joke.

Either way, I guess.

2008-08-09 23:29:09
19.   whodat807
9 Ah, I see. I don't actually disagree - the Ohno incident, in particular, seemed a bit overblown - then again, when you're a small country as nationalistic as SK is, you tend to get worked up these sort of things. Again, I don't begrudge their right (and mine, b/c I admit, I too loudly bellyached over the 2004 gymnastics competition) to complain, and I don't begrudge others' rights to complain about our complaining.

About the smog: people were really worried about it affecting the health of athletes, but today's road race - which is one of, if not the most, grueling outdoor endurance events - went off without a hitch. I don't doubt that the air quality is terrible in Beijing, but perhaps the story, in regards to it effecting the health of athletes, was overblown? L.A. in '84 had terrible smog problems too (what with kids not being able to go out and play during recess when the smog level was 'orange' or worse), but that didn't result in any health crisis...

2008-08-09 23:29:57
20.   LAT
How rude! No NPUT warning. True to form, I have been posting all by myself on the last thread.
2008-08-09 23:31:17
21.   Andrew Shimmin
There was an NPUT, it was just hidden in a challenge.
2008-08-09 23:32:24
22.   ToyCannon
Did they ever show the saber medalist on NBC?
2008-08-09 23:37:26
23.   LAT
That's what I get for not reading more carefully.
2008-08-09 23:40:00
24.   Chiron Brown
22 I saw the medal ceremony for the women's saber that was swept by the U.S.A. earlier today. I think they were the first medals given.
2008-08-09 23:41:35
25.   sporky
Washburn cleared waivers.
2008-08-09 23:44:19
26.   Andrew Shimmin
I saw it too, but I don't remember which channel it was on.
2008-08-09 23:48:12
27.   sporky
The photo of Berroa on the Dodgers website is frightening.
2008-08-09 23:50:51
28.   Alex41592
Pau Gasol and Spain are facing Greece on the USA Network.
2008-08-09 23:51:41
29.   Gagne55
27 That the Dodgers are using Berroa as a starting shortstop is frightening.
2008-08-09 23:53:48
30.   sporky
I know nothing about gymnastics, but the Chinese men's team is pretty durn impressive.
2008-08-09 23:54:02
31.   ToyCannon
Dora Torres reminds of the Battlestar Galactica kick butt blonde pilot.
2008-08-09 23:57:10
32.   ToyCannon
28
Thanks, didn't know the USA network was showing Olympic stuff.

Team handball looks like it would have been a gas to play.

I'd like to see Yao take out the redeem team.

2008-08-09 23:57:30
33.   Chiron Brown
18 The difference is that in 1972 I was a ten year old who rooted for my country (U.S.A.) and believed the Olympics (and life) were fair. Munich took the better part of my innocence. I never really got over the disillusionment of '72 until the U.S. hockey team in 1980.
2008-08-09 23:59:39
34.   sporky
For the past week or so, DeWitt has only played at 2B.
2008-08-10 00:01:33
35.   Andrew Shimmin
How does team fencing work? It sounds like it would be awesome, but also dangerous.
2008-08-10 00:03:02
36.   Greg Brock
33 I'm pretty sure Munich will hold the "Worst Olympics Ever" tag for a very, very long time. Let's hope it doesn't get outdone.
2008-08-10 00:03:20
37.   Andrew Shimmin
I guess they don't call traveling in Olympic basketball, either.
2008-08-10 01:12:12
38.   bablue
Back from the game, obviously very disappointed. I'm going tommorow though so hopefully we can take first place then! But a few thoughts without reading any other comments:

Manny didn't get to at least two balls that Pierre/Ethier would've gotten too.

Torre should have pulled Kuroda and put in Kuo for the 8th, even though the move worked out. Kuroda was getting hit noticeably harder in the 6th and 7th and the leadoff hitter (Roberts) was left-handed.

Wasn't Ethier's ball in the 9th fair? I thought it was and so did every other Dodger fan near me. Seemed obvious to me, but there was no replay.

Ultimately, tough loss. One play goes differently and we could've won. Still, if we can win tommorow we should be very happy taking 2 out of 3 on the road, even if it is the Giants.

2008-08-10 01:16:21
39.   Louis in SF
Much of what I say may have already been covered, but just came back from the game and some drinks by the Bay, a beautiful night with the exception that the Dodgers didn't win.

A few really nice things tonight, Kuroda's performance-he gave the Dodgers a great chance to win, the Ethier at bat in the 9th was really amazing and it almost made it certain that we got Tyler Walker in the 10th, which gave us a chance to win.

Will no longer go to Giant Dodger games on Saturday, I am 0-2 this year-but a great game and hopefully we get a win tomorrow.

2008-08-10 01:19:18
40.   Andrew Shimmin
A couple of months ago Saito-anxiety was high, now it's Broxton's turn. As long as the argument is that Broxton isn't as good as '02-'04 Gagne, I think it's probably best to concede that. But if that's the standard we're going to set for being a closer, that's a little like deciding that any woman who isn't Audrey Hepburn is ugly. Seems like an unpleasant way to go through life.
2008-08-10 01:20:34
41.   Andrew Shimmin
38- From the replay, it was clear that the ball landed squarely on the line.
2008-08-10 01:21:05
42.   trainwreck
How is horse dancing an Olympic sport? The human does not even do anything.
2008-08-10 02:32:01
43.   bablue
41, Thanks. I started cheering as soon as the ball hit the ground without even lookng at the umpire, thinking the call was so obvious. How could someone standing on the line get it wrong?

38, Yeah I agree the the Giants would have kept Wilson in if Ethier had gotten out quickly. But if they had gotten the call right we could have won in the 9th. That one really hurt.

2008-08-10 06:13:52
44.   Bob Timmermann
I've thought for about the past twenty years that the USA basketball team's way of dealing with the loss in the 1972 Gold Medal game was an embarrassment.

Yes, the tournament and its closing seconds were incompetently mismanaged. But that happens in sports. It happens in life. Sometime in life, you will get screwed out of something you deserve.

And most people... move on....

So sayeth the man with the 40 foot grudge obelisk.

The USA could have avoided a lot of problems if:
1) The Powers That Be weren't so enamored of Hank Iba as a coach after his success in 1968. The team didn't need to run an offense out of "Hoosiers."
2) They actually picked the best players in the country to play on the team. The team was split between the NCAA and AAU. AAU players of the time weren't all that good. It didn't help that the Olympic folks had pissed off John Wooden, who cut off UCLA players from participating.
3) Perhaps Hank Iba should have brushed up on the rules.

The final score of the game was, I believe, 51-50. There's no way the USA team should have scored so few points.

Losing that game is akin to blaming a baseball team's closer for blowing a 1-0 lead after a bad call on a walk and then surrendering a home run that was likely foul. You shouldn't have been in that position to begin with.

There 39 minutes and 37 seconds to avoid catastrophe and the US men just plunged headlong into it like Doug Collins hitting the basket support near the end of the game.

There are a lot of awful decisions in Olympic and other sports history (five downs Colorado? Five downs!).

Unless someone shows me a payoff from the Soviets to the Britsh head of the Basketball Federation, I'm still chalking up 1972 as unfortunate and wrong, but not the end of the world.

2008-08-10 06:29:48
45.   Bob Timmermann
I fully expect that most people will react to my opinion of the 1972 Olympic basketball final will be to tell me to sit down and shut up.

It's a battle that is both quixotic and unpopular. It's like tilting at a windmill that fights back!

2008-08-10 06:30:48
46.   Frip
41 From the replay, it was clear that the ball landed squarely on the line.

There was nothing "clear" or "square" about the replay.

It APPEARED that POSSIBLY the ball may have hit the line. But it also APPEARED that POSSIBLY it may have been a fraction to the left of the line. It was fuzzy. And if you're talking centimeters, you can't go on fuzzy.

That's why they put umpires on the field. In this case I'll defer to him since he was there, and the replay was NOT conclusive.

Besides, instead of fouling 15 pitches, maybe Ethier could have HIT one of them. I can't stand chronic foulers. Total buzzkills.

2008-08-10 06:33:43
47.   Bob Timmermann
Yes, but a conspiracy theory is more fun!
2008-08-10 06:34:34
48.   Frip
44 Good post Bob, but I'm not going to sit here and chat with you in my underwear.
2008-08-10 06:36:01
49.   Bob Timmermann
They make me wear pants in the airport.
2008-08-10 07:04:41
50.   jtrichey
46 It seemed pretty clear to me. The Giants had a great replay that was zeroed in on it and it landed directly on the line. Clearly.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-10 07:19:09
51.   Bob Timmermann
I'm also guessing horse dancing is a sport because most horses don't like to dance without some training and control.

Assuming that a human can easily control and train an animal as large as a horse is a dangerous assumption.

2008-08-10 07:27:29
52.   herchyzer
I loved the last post of the last thread, the metaphors piled up like cordwood.
2008-08-10 07:31:47
53.   bhsportsguy
51 So, did you see the "Spirit of St. Louis?"
2008-08-10 07:40:44
54.   Gen3Blue
Wow, I just saw Kemp's throw from last night. I can't help but be reminded of a super fit young centerfielder of almost a decade ago by the whole play. Yes it's Andruw.
2008-08-10 08:06:41
55.   ryu
Basketball news: USA 49, China 37 at the half.

The USA struggling to put away the Chinese, who went 8-for-16 from the 3-point line. Meanwhile team USA is having trouble with its outside shot, going only 1-for-12 from beyond the arc. It's mainly relying on its athleticism.

2008-08-10 08:13:43
56.   Samhain
First Broxton was rested with a "tired" arm. Now he's had two appearances since where, respectively, he's been less than impressive and then terrible.

Best case scenerio in my opinion: he's going through a "dead" arm phase.
Worst case? He's got a sore arm, which he is hiding from the team because of Saito's absence.

Unfortunately, I bet it's the latter

2008-08-10 08:45:42
57.   underdog
Anyone know when the US men's soccer game is on TV today, or is it even on, or did I miss it already? I can't keep track.

Speaking of Olympic soccer, I'm off to my own not-quite-Olympic-level game.

2008-08-10 08:46:22
58.   underdog
Btw, now that Orlando Hudson is hurt, do you think the Dodgers will definitely sign him in the off season? :-/
2008-08-10 09:08:25
59.   ToyCannon
Hudson is like Furcal, that is twice he's gone down for the Diamondbacks. To bad they traded all their middle infield help over the last two years.
2008-08-10 09:10:06
60.   Bob Hendley
57 - Given delays,TiVo, and time differences, I am afraid to answer this question beyond saying that the match has already been played.
2008-08-10 09:12:32
61.   Greg Brock
57 The NBC Olympics tv listings page is terrible. Maybe you'll have better luck getting it to load properly than I have.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/tv_and_online_listings/tv.html

2008-08-10 09:28:12
62.   thinkblue88
55.

So has the game aired already?

2008-08-10 09:31:43
63.   Kayaker7
To revisit the Roy Jones issue, I just want to point out that a group of Buddhist monks in Korea apologized to Jones. A small gesture, but I don't consider it totally meaningless.
2008-08-10 09:32:45
64.   thinkblue88
Ah, I'm guessing, like usual, West Coasters will get it taped.
=/
2008-08-10 09:44:32
65.   Bob Hendley
51 - Or as small as a cat, for that matter.
2008-08-10 09:52:01
66.   Andrew Shimmin
64- NBC starts showing it out here in ten minutes.
2008-08-10 10:03:10
67.   Who Is Karim Garcia
I looking forward to seeing the Chinese guard that the Lakers just signed.
2008-08-10 10:03:31
68.   Icaros
66

They're letting you guys watch in prison?

2008-08-10 10:04:51
69.   Icaros
Ooh, I haven't heard the Tesh-penned NBA on NBC theme in some time.
2008-08-10 10:06:36
70.   Who Is Karim Garcia
69

It's my ringtone. It gets me so many chicks.

2008-08-10 10:09:08
71.   Icaros
70

So, do you have someone call you when you're standing next to one you like?

2008-08-10 10:09:48
72.   Andrew Shimmin
68- I think you mean that it APPEARS that they're PROBABLY letting us guys watch in prison.
2008-08-10 10:12:43
73.   Who Is Karim Garcia
70

Sometimes. Mostly I have fate take over. Tesh knows when to make himself heard.

2008-08-10 10:16:57
74.   Who Is Karim Garcia
Hey fellas, any of you have the details on the meet up? Time and place?
2008-08-10 10:18:46
75.   student of the game
Why didn't Torre play Kent and Ozuna at double play depth with one out in the 10th? If he did, the Dodgers would have likely been out of the inning on Rowand's grounder. What does "The Book" say to do in such situations?
2008-08-10 10:22:51
76.   Icaros
I'm sure Phil Jackson can find something for a 6-9 guard with an outside shot.
2008-08-10 10:26:59
77.   Alex41592
75 - Well sure, but think about it from the other side. Assume the middle infield is playing at double play depth and Rowand hits a slow chopper to short or second.

The infielder is most likely going home on a play anyway. Not throwing to second because if Rowand beats it out on the throw to first the game is over. So you pick your poison and it didn't work out.

2008-08-10 10:30:52
78.   Gagne55
It seems like the vast majority of groundballs (for average runners) are DP balls. This would suggest infield back is the correct move. But I have no data to back my assertions. Clearly if the batter is a guy like Ichiro or Pierre then the infield would have to go in.
2008-08-10 10:33:06
79.   Andrew Shimmin
When your middle infield is Pablo Ozuna and Jeff Kent, betting on the DP is gutsy.
2008-08-10 10:36:48
80.   Alex41592
I have no problem playing the infield back or up in that situation. Joe Madden was in the same situation in the Rays game and chose to use five infielders and the ball was hit to third. The result was a 5-2-3 double play.

The result is the issue. We know now playing the infield back would've probably resulted in a 4-6-3 DP. But, I wasn't exactly upset at the time until the ball got by. Just as I would've been upset if we were playing back and Rowand hit a slowly hit ball to short/second. Remember, Dave Roberts was at third.

2008-08-10 10:42:53
81.   twerp
From dodgers.com===

"SAN FRANCISCO -- Having pitched in three consecutive games, Jonathan Broxton might not even be available to bounce back Sunday from his blown save Saturday night."

From Joe Torre via. dodgers.com about last night==

"There's not a lot we did that we'd do different."

Hoping not to repeat too many points about last night nor wallow in it, but is Torre showing that HE's the ultimate PVL on the Dodgers?

Get that team personnel formula down and then don't vary from it, period. Your closer must pitch the last inning in a save situation, and don't EVER vary from that.

No matter that Torre said not long ago that he didn't think someone who throws as hard as Brox could pitch every day....and then runs him out there three straight. As usual, watch what Torre does, not what he says.

Probably the most puzzling thing about not leaving Kuo in last night is that Torre has said he doesn't want to overuse him and risk blowing out his arm again. And Torre has been good about actually using Kuo about every time he has warmed up.

Which leads to a question: if Kuo has coasted thru the 9th on very few pitches, and the Giants are showing no signs of solving him, and as Jon pointed out the first Giant in the next inning is a lefty, and if you're trying to avoid using Kuo in back-to-back games, why does it seem to be a no-brainer to leave him in and probably accomplish these things--

1) win the game
2) maximize Kuo's usage
3) give Broxton a break
4) prove to Joe that Kuo has an assassin's mentality about pitching...doesn't seem to matter to him what the game situation is, he just treats hitters as dead meat--which they most often are--so, yes, he actually can be trusted in save situations
5) fill in the blanks with anything I may have missed

I'm going to try to refrain from commenting about Torre's by-the-book formula managing any more. Try.

And, here, on "Jon Weisman's outlet for dealing psychologically with the Los Angeles Dodgers and baseball." I'm going to go:

AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!

2008-08-10 10:52:07
82.   Andrew Shimmin
Labron James is pretty good at basketball. I think this is the first time I've watched him play (if he wanted me to watch, he should have gone to college at a Pac-10 school).
2008-08-10 10:52:39
83.   Alex41592
80 - My apologies Roberts scored the second run. Winn scored the winning run.
2008-08-10 10:55:14
84.   silverwidow
Tony Jackson:

Kemp, CF
Ethier, RF
Kent, 2B
Ramirez, LF
Loney, 1B
Martin, C
Blake, 3B
Berroa, SS
Billingsley, P

2008-08-10 11:00:39
85.   Tripon
84 Glad to see he kept the same lineup.
2008-08-10 11:03:14
86.   JJ42
69 that NBA on NBC theme is awesome. I don't watch much NBA anymore but probably would if NBC ever got to televise it if only for that theme.
2008-08-10 11:04:55
87.   Alex41592
84 - Ethier owns Matt Cain. Keep an eye on Loney as he does well against Cain as well. Kent also has had success. And Kemp is Kemp. Manny is Manny. Go Dodgers.
2008-08-10 11:07:40
88.   silverwidow
Kemp's arm is far too valuable to replace him with Pierre. I don't see JP playing much anymore.
2008-08-10 11:09:47
89.   Alex41592
88 - When you see what Kemp did last night and Pierre can only play center field with Manny in the lineup. Put it together and Pierre ends up sitting. Kemp playing great centerfield is in Ethier's best interest and ours.
2008-08-10 11:10:56
90.   Fallout
75 student of the game
Have you tried amazon.com?
2008-08-10 11:11:35
91.   Tripon
Women's beach volleyball is the best sport ever. EVER.
2008-08-10 11:14:18
92.   Alex41592
Also, I watched the Winn single in the 10th inning again. Manny was playing deep and the only player who would've had a shot to catch the ball was Pierre. But, even that would be a tough sell. Ethier probably would've played it safe and let it fall as well.

New game? New game now please?

2008-08-10 11:20:52
93.   LoneStar7
Sun Yu rejects Dwight, that was pretty crazy
2008-08-10 11:29:23
94.   silverwidow
David Price is being promoted to AAA after destroying two minor league levels (sub 2 ERAs).

He could win the AL East for the Rays.

2008-08-10 11:46:43
95.   Bob Hendley
0 - The one-eyed man is king in the land of the blind...

Saramago's take on this is probably more appropriate for DTers.

2008-08-10 11:59:30
96.   Alex41592
Giants counter with:

Roberts
Ochoa
Winn
Rowand
Bowker
Castillo
Burriss
Holm
Cain

2008-08-10 12:03:01
97.   D4P
96
Pathetic.
2008-08-10 12:03:20
98.   Andrew Shimmin
12:02 PM PDT--I have seen my second soccer goal!
2008-08-10 12:07:01
99.   Ken Noe
Happy about the lineup, but it sure points out that there's not much sense getting excited about Torre's pronouncements on lineups. He changes like the weather.
2008-08-10 12:10:42
100.   Andrew Shimmin
The weather hasn't changed in weeks.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-08-10 12:17:42
101.   Tripon
David Ross's been DFA by the Reds.
2008-08-10 12:26:36
102.   Andrew Shimmin
The potential for the Reds to be terrifically funny for the next few years is high. Ross may not be any great shakes, but if you're picking Paul Bako over him, well, good luck with that.
2008-08-10 12:29:21
103.   D4P
Pretty easy to see how Dusty made his decision:

2008 OBP

Ross: .381
Bako: .289

2008-08-10 12:29:52
104.   Tripon
David Ross could hit 10 homers if you gave him 1000 at bats.
2008-08-10 12:30:16
105.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2008-08-10 12:30:29
106.   natepurcell
David Ross is probably better than Danny Ardoin... lets pick him up.

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