Baseball Toaster Dodger Thoughts
Log in | Register | Help
Jon Weisman's outlet
for dealing psychologically
with the Los Angeles Dodgers
and baseball.
Hot from the Toaster
BlogAds
Search
Google Search
Web
Toaster
Dodger Thoughts
Archives

2008
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2007
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2006
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2005
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2004
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2003
12  11  10  09  08  07 
06  05  04  03  02  01 

2002
09  08  07 
About Jon
Support Dodger Thoughts

Dodger Thoughts T-Shirts
On sale through February 16, 2008
DT Blue on WhiteDT-WhiteonBLue
Click here to order.

* * *

Cover 11.25 jpeg

The Best of Dodger Thoughts
A 325-page book featuring the top selections from this website from 2002-2005.

Click here for more information.

On Sale Now at Lulu.com

Support independent publishing: buy this book on Lulu.

* * *

Or, just make a donation to support the site. Many thanks.

"Dodger Thoughts, like TiVo, is one of those things you can completely do without until you start using it."

- Fanerman

Dodger Sites
Dodger Resources
Non-Partisan Baseball Sites
Partisan Baseball Sites
Baseball, Among Other Things
Invaluable Resources
Less Dodgers, More L.A.
All in the Family
Other Writing by Jon on the Web

SI.com
NL West Preview
Evaluating Defense
Colletti and Depo
World Baseball Classic
Minor League Broadcasters
Slow Starts
Eric Gagne
Groundball Pitchers
Dodger Prospects
Albert Pujols
Humbled Angels
You Be the Manager
Eric Gagne II
Unreliable Relievers
Revived Angels
It's Okay To Sell
Dodger Turnaround
Andre Ethier
Padres-Dodgers Showdown
NL Final Weekend
Mets-Dodgers NLDS
Postseason ratings
NL Wish Lists
Manny vs. J.D.
McGwire Controversy
Dodger Offense
Trainers Matter

Variety
Will Arnett
John C. McGinley
Laura Dern
Imelda Staunton
SAG Awards
Ellen Pompeo
Grey's Anatomy
2004-05 Rookie Dramas
Anthony Hopkins
NATPE
Scrubs
Award Shows
Topher Grace
Ashton Kutcher
Writing on Improv Shows
Rainn Wilson
T.R. Knight
Guest Actors
Animation Guests
Joey Carson and Tennis
Donald Trump and Golf
2006 Emmys Nominees*
*Comedy Series
*Comedy Director
*Comedy Writer
*Comedy Actor
*Comedy Supporting Actor
Blue's Clues
Lizzy Caplan
Ann Donahue
CMT: Giants
CMA Awards
Little Miss Sunshine
Actor-Directors
Freshman Series
Clint Eastwood
Showrunners vs. Censors
Little Children
Breaking and Entering
Tartikoff Legacy Awards
Jackie Earle Haley
Knights of Prosperity
Office Online
2007 Screenplay Noms
Friday Night Lights
Robert Benton
ABC Fridays
Rookie Actors
Global Casting
2007 Pilot Casting
Sublime Slime

Also ...
A Season in Savannah (Stanford Magazine)
Five Questions: Los Angeles Dodgers (2005) (Hardball Times)
Rick Monday (Baseball Analysts)
Baseball's Odd Couple (Baseball Prospectus)
Five Questions: Los Angeles Dodgers (2006) (Hardball Times)
Five Questions: Los Angeles Dodgers (2007) (Hardball Times)

More Shameless Self-Promotion
2008 Season

Dodger home record: 50-35 (.588)
When Jon attended: 9-5 (.643)
When Jon didn't: 41-30 (.577)

1991-2008

Dodgers at home: 795-635 (.556)
Jon attended: 302-238 (.559)*
Jon didn't: 498-404 (.552)
* includes road games attended

2009 Payroll Worksheet

Current Roster with Estimated 2009 Salaries
(updated November 14)

Most figures are estimates (some are wild estimates) but will be updated as information comes in. Corrections welcome.

More contract details here.

Starting Pitchers (5)
$10,000,000 Hiroki Kuroda
*$475,000 Chad Billingsley
*$415,000 Clayton Kershaw
*$405,000 Eric Stults
*$400,000 James McDonald
*Total: $11,695,000

Bullpen (7)
*$2,500,000 Takashi Saito
*$1,300,000 Scott Proctor
*$1,500,000 Jonathan Broxton
*$425,000 Hong-Chih Kuo
*$420,000 Cory Wade
*$410,000 Ramon Troncoso
*$400,000 Scott Elbert
Total: $6,955,000

Also on 40-man roster
Mario Alvarez
Yhency Brazoban
Greg Miller
Justin Orenduff

Starting Lineup (8)
$17,100,000 Andruw Jones
*$3,000,000 Russell Martin
*$2,500,000 Andre Ethier
*$600,000 Matt Kemp
*$600,000 James Loney
*$500,000 Angel Berroa
*$410,000 Blake DeWitt
*$400,000 Tony Abreu
Total: $25,110,000

Bench (5)
$10,000,000 Juan Pierre
*$600,000 Jason Repko
*$410,000 Delwyn Young
*$400,000 Danny Ardoin
*$400,000 Chin-Lung Hu
Total: $11,810,000
Note: Team can buy out Ozuna's 2009 option for $200,000

Also on 40-man roster
A.J. Ellis
Lucas May
Xavier Paul

Disabled List
$12,000,000 Jason Schmidt

Also Paying ...
$2,000,000 Brad Penny (buyout of $9,000,000 option)
$50,000 Gary Bennett (buyout of $900,000 option)
Note: Kansas City is responsible for $500,000 buyout of Angel Berroa's $5,500,000 option for 2009.

Working total: *$68,020,000

The 2008 Dodgers

ESPN BR BP Cube Alvarez
ESPN BR BP Cube Abreu
ESPN BR BP Cube Beimel
ESPN BR BP Cube Bennett
ESPN BR BP Cube Billingsley
ESPN BR BP Cube Brazoban
ESPN BR BP Cube Broxton
ESPN BR BP Cube DeWitt
ESPN BR BP Cube Ethier
ESPN BR BP Cube Furcal
ESPN BR BP Cube Garciaparra
ESPN BR BP Cube Hu
ESPN BR BP Cube Jones
ESPN BR BP Cube Kemp
ESPN BR BP Cube Kent
ESPN BR BP Cube Kuo
ESPN BR BP Cube Kuroda
ESPN BR BP Cube LaRoche
ESPN BR BP Cube Loaiza
ESPN BR BP Cube Loney
ESPN BR BP Cube Lowe
ESPN BR BP Cube Martin
ESPN BR BP Cube May
ESPN BR BP Cube McDonald
ESPN BR BP Cube Meloan
ESPN BR BP Cube Miller
ESPN BR BP Cube Orenduff
ESPN BR BP Cube Park
ESPN BR BP Cube Paul
ESPN BR BP Cube Penny
ESPN BR BP Cube Pierre
ESPN BR BP Cube Proctor
ESPN BR BP Cube Repko
ESPN BR BP Cube Saito
ESPN BR BP Cube Schmidt
ESPN BR BP Cube Stults
ESPN BR BP Cube Sweeney
ESPN BR BP Cube Troncoso
ESPN BR BP Cube Wade
ESPN BR BP Cube Young

Selected Recent Ex-Dodgers

ESPN BR BP Cube Alomar
ESPN BR BP Cube Alvarez
ESPN BR BP Cube Aybar
ESPN BR BP Cube Baez
ESPN BR BP Cube Bako
ESPN BR BP Cube Beltre
ESPN BR BP Cube Bradley
ESPN BR BP Cube Cabrera
ESPN BR BP Cube Carrara
ESPN BR BP Cube Carter
ESPN BR BP Cube Chen
ESPN BR BP Cube Choi
ESPN BR BP Cube Cora
ESPN BR BP Cube Crosby
ESPN BR BP Cube Cruz
ESPN BR BP Cube Dessens
ESPN BR BP Cube Dreifort
ESPN BR BP Cube Drew
ESPN BR BP Cube Encarnacion
ESPN BR BP Cube Edwards
ESPN BR BP Cube Erickson
ESPN BR BP Cube Falkenborg
ESPN BR BP Cube Finley
ESPN BR BP Cube Flores
ESPN BR BP Cube Gagne
ESPN BR BP Cube Grabowski
ESPN BR BP Cube Green
ESPN BR BP Cube Guzman
ESPN BR BP Cube Hanrahan
ESPN BR BP Cube Hernandez
ESPN BR BP Cube Hundley
ESPN BR BP Cube Ishii
ESPN BR BP Cube Izturis
ESPN BR BP Cube Jackson
ESPN BR BP Cube Karros
ESPN BR BP Cube Ketchner
ESPN BR BP Cube Ledee
ESPN BR BP Cube Lima
ESPN BR BP Cube Lo Duca
ESPN BR BP Cube Lofton
ESPN BR BP Cube T. Martin
ESPN BR BP Cube Mayne
ESPN BR BP Cube G. Mota
ESPN BR BP Cube Mueller
ESPN BR BP Cube Myrow
ESPN BR BP Cube Nakamura
ESPN BR BP Cube Navarro
ESPN BR BP Cube Nomo
ESPN BR BP Cube Osoria
ESPN BR BP Cube A. Perez
ESPN BR BP Cube O. Perez
ESPN BR BP Cube Phillips
ESPN BR BP Cube Proctor
ESPN BR BP Cube Roberts
ESPN BR BP Cube Robles
ESPN BR BP Cube Romano
ESPN BR BP Cube C. Ross
ESPN BR BP Cube D. Ross
ESPN BR BP Cube Sanchez
ESPN BR BP Cube Schmoll
ESPN BR BP Cube Sele
ESPN BR BP Cube Seo
ESPN BR BP Cube Shuey
ESPN BR BP Cube Stanley
ESPN BR BP Cube S. Stewart
ESPN BR BP Cube Thompson
ESPN BR BP Cube Thurston
ESPN BR BP Cube Valentin
ESPN BR BP Cube Venafro
ESPN BR BP Cube Ventura
ESPN BR BP Cube Weaver
ESPN BR BP Cube Werth
ESPN BR BP Cube Wilson
ESPN BR BP Cube Wunsch

Dodger Thoughts Land
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Syndication

rss2.0

Add to My Yahoo!
'Or'
2008-08-19 14:01
by Jon Weisman

The exact phrasing from the Dodgers' official Greg Maddux announcement:

The Los Angeles Dodgers today announced that they have re-acquired right-handed pitcher Greg Maddux and cash considerations from the San Diego Padres for two minor league players to be named later or cash considerations.

* * *

Double-dog dare:

"It's very rare that you get the opportunity to add a pitcher like Greg even one time, let alone twice," Dodger general manager Ned Colletti said.

Comments (155)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-19 14:03:40
1.   Bob Timmermann
Quick everyone! To the Boolean operator translator!
2008-08-19 14:04:37
2.   Marty
Old friend Toby Hall denies that his latest shoulder injury was caused by Jermaine Dye blocking his attempt to shove a shaving-cream pie in Dye's face.
2008-08-19 14:05:16
3.   Greg Brock
Cash Considerations never proved he could hit above AA ball. It was time to move on.
2008-08-19 14:06:13
4.   Tripon
cash considerations?

Who's getting paid, Maddux? or the Padres?

2008-08-19 14:06:45
5.   Xeifrank
Dunn has more HR at GABP, but he also K's just as often there; a hitter at home can expect about 94.3% of the K/PA they get on the road, but Dunn is up at 99.6%. Home hitters also walk more often, 106.7% of their road rate; Dunn's just been 103.0%. And his wOBA on balls in play is .297 at home and .299 on the road; the norm is .312 at home and .306 on the road. So, while Dunn's HR total has been helped by his ballpark, the simplest interpretation is that trying to hit the extra HR at GABP means he doesn't benefit from the HFA in K, BB, or balls in play as much as a typical player.

Tom, interesting stats. What is the boost in HR/PA that a player gets at home vs road? Also, did you calculate these numbers yourself, or where did you pull them from? What years are included in these stats?
Thanks.
vr, Xei

2008-08-19 14:07:10
6.   Humma Kavula
Somebody should start a Tigers blog called "Norm Cash Considerations."
2008-08-19 14:08:30
7.   bhsportsguy
4 That means if the Dodgers and Padres cannot agree on what players are in the deal, the Dodgers could just send cash.
2008-08-19 14:09:33
8.   Disabled List
Wouldn't the "or" here imply that the Dodgers might be sending money instead of minor-leaguers to the Padres?

If so, no big deal. A (presumably) rich team pays off a not-as-rich team for one of its players. That's the natural order of things in the jungle.

If the cash considerations were going the other way, that's another story.

2008-08-19 14:10:01
9.   El Lay Dave
6 Or a Pennsylvania baseball blog called "Dave Cash Considerations".
2008-08-19 14:10:11
10.   bhsportsguy
3 Why aren't you living the good life in one of the most beautiful spots in California?

There must be something better to do there than read this stuff.

I guess the guy just loves his new toy.

2008-08-19 14:11:00
11.   timm
Apparently the deal is predicated on how much Maddux condributes.
2008-08-19 14:12:54
12.   bigcpa
So this makes 3 first ballot HOF'ers and 3 maybe's on the 40-man roster. That's gotta top the Yankees.
2008-08-19 14:13:05
13.   Greg Brock
10 I went Kayaking this morning and into SLO to walk around and shop. I'm taking a break from vacation.

Plus my friends aren't coming up until tomorrow. I have to pace myself.

2008-08-19 14:13:38
14.   timm
11 Or maybe not!
2008-08-19 14:13:54
15.   Ken Noe
So if we don't like Cash Considerations this time, having re-acquired him along with the Professor, we can trade him back?
2008-08-19 14:14:51
16.   caseybarker
6 The first entry could be entitled, "Put a Cork in it, Gary Sheffield."
2008-08-19 14:14:55
17.   GoBears
That Colletti quote is almost Yogi-esque.

Oh, and someone tell Mr. Colletti that acquiring washed-up FORMERLY great players is actually pretty easy. That's why he's able to do it.

2008-08-19 14:16:09
18.   El Lay Dave
So if Padres send money now and the Dodgers send back money later, isn't that called a loan?
2008-08-19 14:16:44
19.   timm
17 Washed up? His ERA is less than 4 this year.
2008-08-19 14:17:34
20.   El Lay Dave
Right now Colletti has the opportunity to add Roger Clemens too.
2008-08-19 14:17:45
21.   timm
19 Or maybe not!
2008-08-19 14:18:13
22.   El Lay Dave
19 However, it is well over 6 outside of Petco.
2008-08-19 14:18:29
23.   still bevens
So does he start tonight or tomorrow. Ticket holders for tomorrow's game want to know.
2008-08-19 14:19:05
24.   Sushirabbit
I'm a bit surprised by Loney's drop in slugging; did anyone else expect a 100 or so drop? Or is it not that big a deal? I guess he could go on another september tear and up it a bit.
2008-08-19 14:19:17
25.   Bob Timmermann
18
I believe the Dodgers and Padres have started a lend-lease program similar to what the US and the UK had in 1940.

The Dodgers will pay the Padres later for the use of their hose to put out a fire.

Meanwhile, Matt Kemp and Manny Ramirez will save the world from fascism.

2008-08-19 14:19:55
26.   timm
My guess, Sat, against the Phillies
2008-08-19 14:21:03
27.   bhsportsguy
Boston acquired Paul Byrd under the same terms.

"The 37-year-old veteran is heading to the Red Sox for a player to be named later or cash considerations."

2008-08-19 14:22:10
28.   D4P
I'm a bit surprised by Loney's drop in slugging; did anyone else expect a 100 or so drop?

Well, he BA'd .331 last season...

2008-08-19 14:22:52
29.   Jon Weisman
10 - "There must be something better to do there than read this stuff."

Judas!

2008-08-19 14:23:01
30.   El Lay Dave
27 But Cleveland didn't send any money. Last season, Mark Sweeney was also acquired (8/9) for PTBNL or cash; Travis Denker was named on 8/27.
2008-08-19 14:24:35
31.   regfairfield
24 His total inability to hit for power in Vegas made me think he's struggle in that department this year.
2008-08-19 14:26:12
32.   El Lay Dave
25 I thought one simply returns the hose after the fire is over.
2008-08-19 14:27:06
33.   Eric Stephen
29
Judas!

Oooh, now I expect BH to call you a liar and say he doesn't believe you, followed by an amazing version of his most well known post.

2008-08-19 14:27:21
34.   Bob Timmermann
32
But sometimes the hose can't be reused.
2008-08-19 14:27:44
35.   bhsportsguy
29 I thought that would get a reaction from you.
2008-08-19 14:29:15
36.   Tom Meagher
The comparison H/R splits were all major league PA from 2003-2007. I/myspreadsheet calculated the numbers, yeah. The Dunn numbers are his career home/away splits through yesterday, so whatever his numbers with Arizona have been might be screwing it up a micron or two.

By HR/(PA-IBB-SH), Dunn has been .0654 in CIN and .0544 elsewhere; the "norm" as above is .0288 at home and .0275 away. So, a 20.1% gain for Dunn instead of a 4.7% gain. His wOBA on the three true outcomes (including HBP, excluding IBB) has been .495 at home and .458 away. The 03-07 ML had a .429 wOBA on TTO at home against .401 on the road. So, Dunn has been 8% better on those against the norm of 6.9%.

I have a way of splitting up wOBA (right now, ROE not included) between Plate contribution (K, BB, and number of balls put into play) and Yard contribution (i.e., how well the ball traveled - 1B, 2B, 3B, HR, Outs in play); might publish the details some day. Anyway, Dunn's Plate is .327 H / .325 R, vs. 03-07ML's .334 H / .329 R. Dunn's Yard is .396 H / .379 R vs. 03-07ML's .335 H / .328 R.

While GABP has helped Dunn's raw totals, it has not done so to a greater extent than the typical park factors used to adjust his numbers would suggest.

2008-08-19 14:30:06
37.   Jon Weisman
35 - Rule 3~!
2008-08-19 14:30:22
38.   El Lay Dave
25 Wait - does that mean:
Frank McCourt = King George VI
Jamie McCourt = Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon
Ned Colletti = Winston Churchill
???
2008-08-19 14:32:12
39.   Gen3Blue
The way that transaction is worded is delightful, because cash considerations could concievably flow both ways, which would almost certainly be counter-productive. Of course we have to assume that Colletti knows that three of the teams in our division are cash constrained and have to develop young players to be competitive, so he wouldn't have offered them really useful prospects.( I'm chocking at this point).
All in all, though Ned has not been too disastrous for our first tier prospects, he has pretty well cleared out the second tier, and going back to the trades with TB,(Jackson and Tiffany?) I'm not sure what we have got of lasting value.
2008-08-19 14:32:18
40.   Dodgers49
Replacing Greg Maddux on the San Diego roster is none other than old friend Brett Tomko.

http://tinyurl.com/6bb899

2008-08-19 14:32:52
41.   bhsportsguy
37 Oops, its good thing your kids liked the lemon bars.
2008-08-19 14:34:19
42.   Xeifrank
36. What is the league average number for HR/PA at home vs road? If I missed it and it's somewhere in one of your posts, I apologize.
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 14:34:25
43.   Jon Weisman
41 - Yes it is. Yes it is. :)
2008-08-19 14:37:45
45.   El Lay Dave
Josh Rawitch is pushing the Think Cure on-line auction, particularly his prize, which does sound pretty nice.

http://insidethedodgers.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/08/maddux_is_official.html

* Spend a day at the stadium with Josh Rawitch, the key behind-the-scenes link between the players and the press. See how game-day stats are assembled, how to handle questions from reporters on deadlines. Experience the fast-paced excitement of Major League Baseball from the inside.

* Meeting Joe Torre and taking part in his pregame media session

* Standing on the field at Dodger Stadium for the National Anthem

* A private tour of the stadium, including areas that the public tour doesn't go (underground batting cages, player's lounge, Dodger offices, press box, broadcast booths, DodgerVision booth...

* every day of my job requires me to interact with all of the Dodger broadcasters

* I spend about an hour of each day in the Dodger clubhouse, as would the fan who purchases the package to go Inside the Dodgers.

High bid currently $430.

2008-08-19 14:37:50
46.   bhsportsguy
Molly Knight did a podcast on the LAT Dodger blog today but I cannot get the link to work.
2008-08-19 14:38:44
47.   skybluestoday
Whoops, sorry, Jon. No offense intended, and I don't have a history of it.
2008-08-19 14:42:31
48.   Kevin Lewis
46

It worked for me about 3 hours ago.

2008-08-19 14:43:49
49.   El Lay Dave
Maddux wore #36 in his last LA stint. Ardoin has 36 at the moment. His Braves' number was 31, which is Penny's, of course. He wore 30 on the Padres, currently Blake's number.
2008-08-19 14:43:50
50.   Paul Scott
27 That is very very far from the same thing. Boston got Byrd for ONE PTBNL -OR- cash. We got Maddux AND Cash for TWO PTBNL.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-19 14:46:43
51.   Xeifrank
49. Maybe he will take the average and wear number 32-1/3. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 14:48:25
52.   Kevin Lewis
49

Penny doesn't really need his number right now, right?

2008-08-19 14:48:36
53.   El Lay Dave
50 You mean "... TWO PTBNL" or cash considerations. (See Jon's original post.)
2008-08-19 14:48:36
54.   Jon Weisman
50 - We got Maddux AND Cash for two PTBNL OR cash, according to the announcement. Hence the similarity. Not that I'm counting on us not giving up any players.
2008-08-19 14:48:44
55.   cargill06
49 32 is my guess.
2008-08-19 14:49:00
56.   GiantturnedDodger
Is it 7:10 yet? I hate off days.
2008-08-19 14:49:12
57.   bhsportsguy
50 To be fair, add "or cash considerations."
2008-08-19 14:49:40
58.   El Lay Dave
Perhaps McCourt will send cash instead of players if he realizes extra revenue from playoff games?
2008-08-19 14:50:04
59.   Jon Weisman
From the press notes:

Highest Slugging Pct in August, NL Players, 2008

(minimum 40 AB)

Ty Wigginton, Hou .932
Ryan Ludwick, StL .803
Andre Ethier, LAD .786
Manny Ramirez, LAD .780

2008-08-19 14:50:38
60.   bhsportsguy
And while the addition of that last three words may not mean anything, certainly if it wasn't an option, they wouldn't use it in the official release.
2008-08-19 14:50:47
61.   Jon Weisman
Also:

"Each of the Dodgers' last nine games have been decided by one or two runs. They are 6-3 in that stretch, including wins in six of the last seven. Beginning July 23, in fact, 20 of the Dodgers' 24 games have been decided by three runs or less. Los Angeles is 11-9 in those 20 games and 15-9 overall in that time. The Dodgers are 17-18 in one-run games and 11-14 in two-run contests."

2008-08-19 14:51:47
62.   bhsportsguy
58 I think the cash part has more to do with the list of players the Dodgers give the Padres and how much the Padres would rather have money as opposed to players.
2008-08-19 14:51:56
63.   bearlurker
Has Rosenthal's article criticizing the Dodgers for not claiming Dunn already been linked?
2008-08-19 14:52:18
64.   scareduck
Regarding Tom's question at 201 in the last thread, the 1965 Giants also had the same RoY configuration at first.

The Lahman database doesn't provide data for particular outfield usages prior to 1995 (i.e., the "OF" designation is widespread), making it difficult to say with any certainty how things broke down. Nevertheless, and relaxing things a bit for the sake of convenience (RoY only, any named position, including pitchers and DHs):

1962-64 Giants, OF: Cepeda, Kuenn, Mays, McCovey
1964-65 Giants, 1B: Cepeda, Kuenn, Mays, McCovey
1958-59 Senators, OF: Bob Allison, Albie Pearson, Roy Sievers
1959, 1961-1964 Dodgers, OF: Jim Gilliam, Frank Howard, Wally Moon
1976 Yankees, DH: Chris Chambliss, Thurman Munson, Lou Piniella
1977 Mets, P: John Matlack, Tom Seaver, Pat Zachry
1980-81 Dodgers, P: Steve Howe, Rick Sutcliffe, Fernando Valenzuela
1983 Dodgers, P: Steve Howe, Fernando Valenzuela, Pat Zachry
1986 White Sox, DH: Carlton Fisk, Ozzie Guillen, Ron Kittle
1993 Orioles, P: Gregg Olson, Rick Sutcliffe, Fernando Valenzuela
2000 Yankees, DH: Jose Canseco, David Justice, Chuck Knoblauch

2008-08-19 14:53:04
65.   bhsportsguy
63 Yes, this morning in the previous thread.
2008-08-19 14:54:06
66.   MollyKnight
^Yep.
2008-08-19 14:55:44
67.   bearlurker
65

Thanks, just found Jon's post linking it from the previous thread.

2008-08-19 14:56:07
68.   GoBears
59. Just like many here said. Adding Ramirez has helped, but benching Pierre and freeing Ethier has helped even more (by this measure - MR's OBP is absurdly high too).
2008-08-19 14:56:40
69.   regfairfield
Look at the protection that Darin Erstad provides.
2008-08-19 14:57:31
70.   the count
I missed the previous thread so sorry if this has been discussed. But, is anyone frightened by Maddux's home/away splits this season? His ERA is a full 3 runs higher on the road.
2008-08-19 14:58:39
71.   MollyKnight
Does the wording of that press release mean we COULD be getting a Maddux rental plus cash for prospects?

That would fit with the current philosophy.

2008-08-19 14:58:48
72.   Alex41592
Do we EVER find out what cash considerations becomes? I've also seen 'So and so player for future considerations'. Future definitely seems to have more upside than cash.

So, it looks like it's a salary dump. If the Dodgers don't like the Padres player decisions they can write them a nice check and say no thanks.

2008-08-19 14:58:49
73.   cargill06
Matt Kemp logged 14 Non-IBB last month in 122 PA's, this month 1 Non-IBB this month in 74 PA's
2008-08-19 14:59:34
74.   underdog
13 You could always go visit my mom and stepdad in beautiful Sta Barbara, just halfway from there to LA. Or go hang around the Cal Poly campus like Joe Cool (or Joe Cougar).

I kayaked in Morro Bay once and saw quite a few otters; it was awesome.

2008-08-19 15:00:44
75.   cargill06
73 In cast I didn't make myself clear I was talking about this month with the 1 non-IBB taking place in this month.
2008-08-19 15:02:18
76.   JoeyP
72-> I think you have it backwards. If the Padres dont like the list of players the Dodgers give them to pick from, then they can get money instead.
2008-08-19 15:02:35
77.   Tripon
Mets Wagner's is out indefinitely.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3543296

2008-08-19 15:03:16
78.   Alex41592
76 - That's fine as well.
2008-08-19 15:05:05
79.   goofus
46 If you can email him, tell him to add: Admission to the after-game-meal with the players, and the bid will really go up. Too bad Andruw isn't there, but we still have Penney...
2008-08-19 15:05:32
80.   Xeifrank
70. Maddux FIP ERA (this season)
Home: 4.04
Road: 4.00

Not too worried.
vr, Xei

2008-08-19 15:06:52
81.   Jon Weisman
The only compensation the press release seems to rule out is a single player, which I find a little odd.

In any case, we might be sending the Padres two minor leaguers or we might be sending them cash. I don't see that it's worth trying to play the guessing game until the answer just comes.

2008-08-19 15:07:23
82.   Tom Meagher
42 First sentence of paragraph 2 of 36 :
"the 'norm' as above is .0288 at home and .0275 away."

Ken Gurnick wrote this of Maddux:
"Maddux went a tough-luck 6-9 with 11 no-decisions and a 3.99 ERA for San Diego." Where exactly did the tough luck come in? The Padres have scored 3.82 runs per game, and Maddux has allowed 4.70. I actually think Maddux is still a slightly above average SP (NL SP have .486 Wins/Decision), but to call that 6-9 tough luck is a huge stretch.

2008-08-19 15:09:23
83.   cargill06
80 Wow, fantastic point. His HR is almost identical H/R this season.
2008-08-19 15:10:57
84.   himynameisyoo
80
what exactly is FIP ERA?
2008-08-19 15:12:13
85.   regfairfield
Maddux allowing more home runs on the road than in Petco: the genius of Greg Maddux, or lucky fluke that's going to kill us at the worst possible time?
2008-08-19 15:13:49
86.   Terry A
Cash considerations could be a lot of things. Timeshares; free parking (selected Boston lots only); tickets to the AYCE pavilion in Dodger Stadium; personal visit from Tom Lasorda.

It all depends on who's doing the considering, and who doesn't have any cash.

2008-08-19 15:14:13
87.   Xeifrank
"the 'norm' as above is .0288 at home and .0275 away."
Sorry I am having trouble reading this. In your posts on the previous thread you listed a single coefficient that the typical major leaguer would see his strikeout and walk totals rise by, from shifting from a road to a home game (ie K/PA was something like 0.94). What is the coefficient you have for HR/PA moving from a road to home game? Should be just one number, something like 1.047?
Thanks, sorry for the confusion.
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 15:15:51
88.   silverwidow
55 Don't know if you were joking, but 32 is retired. Some guy named Koufax wore it.
2008-08-19 15:16:07
89.   Xeifrank
84. FIP ERA =
((13HR + 3BB - K2) / IP) + 3.2

it's the "best fit" regression formula for converting the fielding independent pitching stats into ERA (developed by Tom Tango, I believe).
vr, Xei

2008-08-19 15:16:08
90.   GoBears
80 That's interesting. Does that mean he has allowed more unearned runs at home, or that he's been plagued by bad defense on the road, just without actual errors?

It looks like the diff. b/w ERA and FIP is bigger on the road - so it's the latter, right?

Please 'splain the implications of the stats you just provided, if you're so inclined. My brain is suffering from a lack of lunch.

2008-08-19 15:18:12
91.   Xeifrank
90. Basically, based on fielding independent pitching stats (HR, BB, K), the three stats a pitcher can control, Maddux has been unlucky on the road. You could also take a look at his BABIP home/road if you'd like. I will leave that excercise for others. :)
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 15:19:12
92.   cargill06
89 It also shows, how unlucky/lucky a pitcher's been this year. Like Dice K for example, his FIP is nearly a 1.4 runs higher than his acutal ERA and if he continues this pitching trends you would expect his ERA to rise.
2008-08-19 15:19:36
93.   Dodgers49
Rangers' Kinsler heads to DL with sports hernia

>> Rangers All-Star second baseman Ian Kinsler was placed on the 15-day disabled list Monday with a sports hernia, and could be headed for season-ending surgery. <<

http://tinyurl.com/5ljfus

This is bad news. See Abreu, Tony.

2008-08-19 15:20:49
94.   Tom Meagher
64 '62-'65 met my first criteria alone, but '64 met and exceeded both of my criteria. (Mays did not play 1B in '65, and Kuenn and Cepeda barely played there.) Kuenn, Cepeda, and McCovey all played the same position in each of those four seasons: 1962, LF and RF (one game at each for Cepeda); 1963, LF; 1964, LF and 1B (only one PLAY for Cepeda in LF); 1965, 1B. In '65, Mays, Cepeda, and Kuenn all played LF, as well.
2008-08-19 15:22:37
95.   regfairfield
91 With the Dodger defense behind him, he's more likely to continue being unlucky.
2008-08-19 15:24:01
96.   Bob Timmermann
93
It's bad news for the guy who had Ian Kinsler on his fantasy team.
2008-08-19 15:25:20
97.   Tom Meagher
87 That was the next bit:
"So, a 20.1% gain for Dunn instead of a 4.7% gain." As a single coefficient, it's 1.0468, Dunn's being 1.2013.

91 If I recall correctly, his BABIP split has been .230 at Home and .350 on the road this season. Keep in mind that the denominator in FIP is IP, which is BABIP-impacted.

2008-08-19 15:25:51
98.   D4P
it's the "best fit" regression formula for converting the fielding independent pitching stats into ERA

Any idea what the "r-squareds" usually are on such models...?

2008-08-19 15:28:44
99.   GoBears
91 Thanks. I get it now.
2008-08-19 15:30:11
100.   scareduck
94 - I know; as I said, I was relaxing the requirements a bit so I could get some answers without having to spend the rest of the day refining my answers. Part of the problem is that the Lahman database only provides outs played per position back to 1995 (maybe earlier, but I'm assuming the data has the same foibles as the OF oddity). I thought it was an interesting list, anyway.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-08-19 15:38:32
101.   Xeifrank
98. Fair question, that I don't know the answer to. I will try to ask the author.
vr, Xei
2008-08-19 15:44:36
102.   CodyS
89 Wow, I always assumed FIP was something more meaningful than that. I imagined it had to do with watching the games and evaluating the plays made/not made compared to average. Or at least involved some aggregate measure of the team defense.
2008-08-19 15:48:12
103.   cargill06
102 I thought so too. It looks pretty accurate over the long run. I found a couple statistical exceptions. Carlos Zambrano's FIP is always a lot higher than his ERA and AJ Burnett's FIP is usually a lot lower than his actual ERA. Of course, it's not perfect but it seems very accurate to measure defensive help/lucky or unlucky seasons.
2008-08-19 15:56:31
104.   D4P
Depo has a comment up on the Maddux trade. Unfortunately, he's not allowed to talk about any Dodger players the Padres might be interested in.
2008-08-19 15:58:59
105.   ToyCannon
Who will be the best pitcher from here on out. Randy Johnson or Greg Maddux?
2008-08-19 15:59:24
106.   GoBears
102. Yeah, me too. But FIP is basically BABIPIP.

Interesting in Maddux's case. That his home and road FIP are so similar means that he gives up more HRs and BBs in Petco than I would have expected. I'd think that for a control pitcher, Petco would be nirvana - just toss up hittable (but not crushable) balls and let the defense run under them.

Dodger Stadium's slightly better-than-average HR factor plus a pretty lousy defense suggest that a Maddux who could not even take full advantage of PETCO (more lucky than good, evidently) might be hard to watch here.

2008-08-19 16:01:21
107.   Tripon
Anybody got a lineup?
2008-08-19 16:01:25
108.   Blue in SF
Russel Martin is on TMZ: http://www.tmz.com/2008/08/19/dodger-catcher-im-not-mannys-nanny/

Anyone recognize who he is with?

2008-08-19 16:01:40
109.   silverwidow
It's Fantasy Football season and I've got the 8th pick next week. I'm hoping seven people get cold feet and don't pick Steven Jackson because of his holdout. Then he's MINE.
2008-08-19 16:05:16
110.   ibleedbloo
I think everyone is missing the real story here. I am on the edge of