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*$475,000 Chad Billingsley
*$415,000 Clayton Kershaw
*$405,000 Eric Stults
*$400,000 James McDonald
*Total: $11,695,000

Bullpen (7)
*$2,500,000 Takashi Saito
*$1,300,000 Scott Proctor
*$1,500,000 Jonathan Broxton
*$425,000 Hong-Chih Kuo
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*$410,000 Ramon Troncoso
*$400,000 Scott Elbert
Total: $6,955,000

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*$400,000 Tony Abreu
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*$600,000 Jason Repko
*$410,000 Delwyn Young
*$400,000 Danny Ardoin
*$400,000 Chin-Lung Hu
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McCourt May Give Marathon a Run For His Money
2008-08-26 14:55
by Jon Weisman

Dodgers at Nationals, 4:10 p.m.
Today's Lineups
Los Angeles
Matt Kemp, CF
Andre Ethier, RF
Jeff Kent, 2B
Manny Ramirez, LF
James Loney, 1B
Russell Martin, C
Nomar Garciaparra, SS
Casey Blake, 3B
Derek Lowe, P
Washington
Willie Harris, LF
Christian Guzman, SS
Ryan Zimmerman, 3B
Lastings Milledge, CF
Ron Belliard, 1B
Jesus Flores, C
Ryan Langerhans, RF
Emilio Bonifacio, 2B
Collin Balester, P
"Dodgers owner Frank McCourt has agreed to provide financial backing to a new Los Angeles company that hopes to buy operating rights to the Los Angeles Marathon from its Chicago owner," reports Greg Johnson of the Times.

* * *

Enough with talk of anger and passion and pride. Everyone on the Dodgers wants to win. It's just a matter of whether they can.




Comments (643)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-26 15:09:45
1.   Tripon
The Marathon should have a segway division.
2008-08-26 15:13:26
2.   Zak
1 I see multiple GOB references in 3, 2, 1...
2008-08-26 15:13:38
3.   D4P
I guess this means McCourt has a pot of money he's willing to spend on the marathon but not on the Dodgers. Not that I blame him: I wouldn't want Ned spending my money either.
2008-08-26 15:16:16
4.   Harold M Johnson
to be fair, he is spending quite a bit of money on the Dodgers it seems. He's done extensive renovations on the stadium and has a pretty high payroll from top to bottom.
2008-08-26 15:16:27
5.   KG16
picking up the last thread... I can't help but wonder if APS (average plus slugging) would not give us a better evaluation than OPS? We see the difference, according to the numbers reg posted, that the difference between AVE and OBP is about .050, but I would think that it overvalues walks to a large degree.
2008-08-26 15:16:52
6.   Ken Noe
Maybe he'll reassign Ned to run the marathon!

One beam of light in the recent gloom is the continuing ascendancy of Ethier over Pierre. I hope that carries over to 2009.

2008-08-26 15:17:23
7.   regfairfield
5 You could find the answer in five minutes with Excel.
2008-08-26 15:18:31
8.   cargill06
Have the matchups been announced for this weekend? Right now ESPN has Arizona throwing Petit, Davis and Haren against us, but what is stopping them from doing this and going for the jugular?
SD SERIES
Aug. 25th- Haren
Aug. 26th- Webb
Aug. 27th- Johnson
Aug. 28th- OFF
LA SERIES
Aug. 29th- Petit
Aug. 30th- Haren
Aug. 31st- Webb
STL SERIES
Sept. 1st- Davis
Sept. 2nd- Johnson
Sept. 3rd- Petit
Sept. 4th - OFF
LA SERIES
Sept. 5th- Webb
Sept. 6th- Haren
Sept. 7th- Johnson

If so 5 out of the 6 games vs. Johsnon, Webb, and Haren all on normal rest. That could be serious trouble.

2008-08-26 15:18:50
9.   Tripon
6 It'll be interesting to see if Ethier blocks players like Andrew Lambo and Kyle Russell in 2010/2011.
2008-08-26 15:19:10
10.   JoeyP
Excel regression analysis is awesome. I was terrified to do that stuff in the first college stats class I took, but it got easier & easier.

Excel has to be the best program Gates ever designed

2008-08-26 15:19:17
11.   KG16
7 - if I knew how to use excel beyond the most basic items, that would probably be true. But since I only use it for easy tables, probably not so true.
2008-08-26 15:20:00
12.   Humma Kavula
6 Maybe he'll change the marathon from 26.2 miles to 90 feet, and reassign Pierre to run the "marathon."
2008-08-26 15:21:50
13.   Tripon
8 Those two series against the Cards for the D'backs looks brutal. I wouldn't juggle my lineup for the Dodgers to give myself an edge against the Dodgers, and then put myself a disadvantage against a better team like St. Louis.
2008-08-26 15:23:49
14.   regfairfield
11 From 2007

OPS: .948
APS: .931

2008-08-26 15:24:16
15.   Zak
8 At least we will have Billz and Lowe going twice against them. That should help. Also, it will be hard for AZ to win a single game against STL with those SPs.

I feel like we only have to split with AZ and the schedule actually favors us to make up the three games. So, as long as we don't get swept in AZ and we can have a good showing in WAS, I think the Dodgers should do ok.

2008-08-26 15:25:56
16.   KG16
14 - interesting. would anyone consider .017 to be a statistically significant difference?
2008-08-26 15:27:28
17.   LogikReader
Before our game starts, I left out a very good restaurant from our Burger discussion some weeks back.

Islands!

Now they include fries with the burgers. I went for the first time on Sunday. Those bad boys were delicious. Mmmm... Kilauea is right in my wheelhouse.

Anyway, back to business.

2008-08-26 15:27:38
18.   cargill06
16 I see your point. Why use something not as accurate though?
2008-08-26 15:27:46
19.   D4P
What's the theoretical rationale for combining BA and SLG? I don't really see one. For one thing, there's a lot more double-counting in that then there is in adding OBP and SLG.
2008-08-26 15:28:17
20.   Jon Weisman
16 - Even if you think walks are overvalued, why do you want to eliminate them entirely and then undervalue them?
2008-08-26 15:28:50
21.   D4P
The other problem with BA and SLG is that they completely ignore walks. It's as if we're supposed to believe no one ever scores after drawing a walk.
2008-08-26 15:28:59
22.   Tripon
17 You should try Five Guys. Better fries than Inn & Out. And they give free toppings of bacon on everything.
2008-08-26 15:29:32
23.   Eric Stephen
15
Also, it will be hard for AZ to win a single game against STL with those SPs

Even if St. Louis was a 70/30 favorite in each game of the series, the chances of a sweep are only 34.3%.

Arizona is 23-29 in games started by the trio noted above.

2008-08-26 15:30:30
24.   regfairfield
22 Isn't there only one five guys on this side of the country?
2008-08-26 15:31:11
25.   D4P
And they give free toppings of bacon on everything

Not free for the pigs.

2008-08-26 15:31:47
26.   ToyCannon
Wouldn't a walk to Rickey Henderson be more valuable then a walk to Mike Scoscia? Is any of that put into consideration of the analysis?
2008-08-26 15:32:11
27.   underdog
Marathon... hmm...

"Is it safe?"

"I don't know what you mean. I can't tell you something's safe or not, unless I know specifically what you're talking about."

2008-08-26 15:33:15
28.   Tripon
24 In Carson, and they're opening up a place in Cerritos I think. But I live in Torrance and pass by the Carson franchise on the 405 every day to drive to UCI, so its an option for me.
2008-08-26 15:33:44
29.   ToyCannon
24
Plus it is in Carson. Who drives to Carson to eat a burger except someone who lives there?
2008-08-26 15:34:56
30.   ToyCannon
0
I'd rather have Carlos Santana in tow and the Marathoners can find somewhere else to toil.
2008-08-26 15:35:09
31.   D4P
26
Well, part of what you're getting at is that many of these statistical analyses produce "average effects". In other words, let's say that we were studying the effects of college education on incomes, and we found (hypothetically) that college graduates make $30,000 more on average than do non-college graduates.

We would expect to find some college grads who made more than $30,000 more, and some who made less than $30,000 more. We'd also probably find some non-grads who made more than some grads.

By the same token, if we find that a Walk increases Runs Scored by an average of X, we'd find some players for whom a Walk increase Runs by more than X and some less than X.

2008-08-26 15:35:09
32.   goofus
13 They don't have to beat St Louis to get into the playoffs but they must beat L A.
2008-08-26 15:35:12
33.   Tripon
29 People in Torrance!

Okay, I live in nowhereville. I admit it, but I want to move back to the city, I really do. :(

2008-08-26 15:36:09
34.   arborial
regarding being Dogmatic, I think the point is that those of the "old-school" refuse to change their ways, whereas those in the "new-school" are willing to change their ways you just have to provide some type of quantifiable evidence that would elicit such a change
2008-08-26 15:36:48
35.   D4P
30
McCourt can spend his money the way he wants, but it would still be kinda lame if we are giving away players (instead of taking on salary) just so he can buy the marathon.
2008-08-26 15:37:02
36.   KG16
combining batting average and slugging percentage makes sense because they are based on the same denominator, the same factors are considered in determining both.

I do think that many old schoolers undervalue walks, but I think many new schoolers over value walks. I have never suggested that "no one ever scores after drawing a walk", that would be an asinine thing to say.

Personally, I don't think combining any of the stats tells us much. In fact, I probably tell us less. I tend to prefer the BA/OBP/SLG approach to evaluating players. I can quickly determine the frequency with which a player walks, the type of hits a player gets, and how often he gets a hit. OPS or APS don't tell me that information. As D4P suggests, there's a whole lot of double counting when you start adding these numbers together, and that blurs the relevant information.

2008-08-26 15:37:04
37.   trainwreck
25
http://tinyurl.com/6faply
2008-08-26 15:37:17
38.   regfairfield
33 Hey don't diss Torrance. It's at least adjacent to interesting things.
2008-08-26 15:38:46
39.   ToyCannon
31
The averages seem pointless when you only have 600 players you need to evaluate.
2008-08-26 15:38:49
40.   cargill06
32 I agree, and LA vs. Ari games are 2 game swings if you win or lose. I'd rather load up against LA if I were Az.
2008-08-26 15:38:51
41.   D4P
I think the point is that those of the "old-school" refuse to change their ways, whereas those in the "new-school" are willing to change their ways

With the exception of the really young "new-school" folks, I would guess that most "new-schoolers" (myself included) have changed their ways. Most of us around here no doubt grew up worshiping BA, RBIs, etc., and changed our minds based on convincing advances in research and analysis that not only look good on paper, but that make sense in theory.

2008-08-26 15:38:57
42.   Kevin Lewis
17

I ended up going to Pie 'n Burger after that discussion to give them one more try. I was really impressed by the burger this time. Great overall package (bun, lettuce, tomato, cheese, excellent meat, and great Thousand Island dressing). However, it is the price that knocks it down for me. It should probably be about $1 less for every item on the menu.

You know, I generally like Islands, but any time I suggest it, I am shot down.

2008-08-26 15:39:45
43.   KG16
28 - why in the world would you commute from Torrance to Irvine, every day? I commute from Yorba Linda to Lake Forest (just south of Irvine) every day and hate it. And I love to drive.
2008-08-26 15:40:13
44.   Jon Weisman
My favorite part of the McCourt marathon story was this clarification:

"McCourt, who stays physically active but doesn't run marathons ..."

2008-08-26 15:40:17
45.   Tripon
38 But Torrance itself is pretty dang boring. Not as boring as Irvine, but close to it.
2008-08-26 15:41:04
46.   LogikReader
22

I had my chance at Five Guys in NY and I blew it. Ah well... I'll give it another shot when I return.

2008-08-26 15:41:32
47.   Kevin Lewis
38

Like RPV?

2008-08-26 15:41:53
48.   ToyCannon
43
I commuted from Woodland Hills to Irvine for a year. Obviously you do it because that is where the job is and you happen to like where you currently live.
2008-08-26 15:42:05
49.   regfairfield
45 Believe me, I know. I pulled the same thing (minus the commute). I still don't get how you can have every business adjacent to a college close at nine.
2008-08-26 15:42:59
50.   Tripon
43 Summer session at UCI, and didn't bother to try to find summer housing. I am moving back to Irvine in the fall. And I don't mind the commute that much, and when I started commuting to and from UCI(back in Fall of 07), gas was only $3.05-$3.25 and I was only paying $30-35 bucks a week, a small price to pay compared to rental rents around UCI. With gas prices over 4 dollars for most of the year, its not such a good plan at the moment.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-26 15:43:03
51.   KG16
49 - three words: master. planned. community.
2008-08-26 15:44:33
52.   regfairfield
51 That's some really poor planning on their part.

"Should we put a bar next to this college?"
"Nah, I think a children's dance studio would be way more popular"

2008-08-26 15:44:35
53.   arborial
41 I guess that was kind of my point. Thanks for saying it better than I :)
2008-08-26 15:46:45
54.   D4P
combining batting average and slugging percentage makes sense because they are based on the same denominator, the same factors are considered in determining both.

But you're adding the same thing over and over. Think about it: in your numerator, if a player hits a single, you add a "1" for BA and a "1" for SLG. If a player hits a double, you add a "1" for BA and a "2" for SLG. Triple = "1" for BA, "3" for SLG. HR = 1 for BA, 4 for SLG. What's the point in adding the 1s for BA? Why not just use the 1, 2, 3, and 4 from SLG? Plus, again, you're ignoring Walks.

I do think that many old schoolers undervalue walks, but I think many new schoolers over value walks.

But the value they place on walks is not abstract or theoretical: it's the result of statistical analyses that reveal the value of walks. They're not making it up. If you want to disagree, you essentially have to show that the analyses they're performing are flawed.

I have never suggested that "no one ever scores after drawing a walk", that would be an asinine thing to say.

But that's essentially what you're saying when you advocate a new stat (BA+SLG) that doesn't include walks over an existing stat (OBP+SLG) that does.

Personally, I don't think combining any of the stats tells us much. In fact, I probably tell us less. I tend to prefer the BA/OBP/SLG approach to evaluating players.

The issue is that OBP*SLG correlates more strongly with Runs Scored than do BA or OBP or SLG by themselves, which when you think about it, makes perfect sense.

OBP is good because it tells us how often a player gets on base, which you need to do in order to score. But it leaves out how far around the base baths the player gets.

SLG is good because it tells us something about how far around the base paths the player gets, but it leaves out how often they get on base in the first place.

Combining OBP and SLG, while not perfect, allows us to some extent to enjoy the benefits of both stats, while filling in some of the gaps in each.

2008-08-26 15:47:13
55.   Tripon
52 At least they finally have a pub on campus. Although I never have the chance to drink at the pub due having classes packed together. Decent pub fare though.
2008-08-26 15:48:13
56.   underdog
I commuted from Venice to Sylmar (far end of the SF Valley) every day for a couple of months for a film production job and wanted to commit suicide after a few weeks of it. Of course, I had to be there at 630AM usually so the traffic wasn't that bad at least!

I don't miss those days at all.

2008-08-26 15:48:24
57.   regfairfield
55 Yeah, they had that until they decided to close down the student center for the last three years I was there.
2008-08-26 15:50:36
58.   El Lay Dave
48 That must have been BRUTAL. My current Northridge to El Segundo run is at my limit.
2008-08-26 15:51:33
59.   Eric Stephen
I commuted from Long Beach to San Diego for about 9 months. It was awful. Now my commute is half a mile, and 9-10 minutes door to door if I walk.
2008-08-26 15:51:43
60.   MC Safety
Speaking of burgers... if you're ever in Long Beach go to Dave's on Atlantic and Wardlow, right off the 405. It's just a little stand and they don't make fries, but the burgers are amazing.
2008-08-26 15:51:57
61.   Kuo-fax
55 - Yeah, that pub was the only place within miles of campus, back when I was there... like an oasis, it was. At least for us Philosophy majors who needed a place within stumbling distance to engage in our debates!
2008-08-26 15:52:07
62.   Kevin Lewis
56

My wife used to work in Sylmar. Those are not fond memories.

2008-08-26 15:52:51
63.   D4P
I'm guessing all you commuters had to drive, too. Longish commutes aren't as bad if you can bus or train, since you can sleep, read, laptop, etc. But driving long distances is pretty much a waste of time, not to mention other resources.
2008-08-26 15:52:52
64.   Zak
23 Eric, Sorry if I made it sound like Arizona was going to get swept against St. Louis. I just meant that they would struggle more to win games in any series where both Webb and Haren are not pitching. That's all. I just meant that it is unlikely that they will have games where the SP will dominate for them resulting in an easy win. I hope they get swept, but I understand they probably won't.
2008-08-26 15:53:10
65.   cargill06
Just stumbled upon Brad Ziegler's stats, including '07 AA and AAA stats he hasn't given up a HR in 147.2 innings. I don't know when the last one he gave up in '06 was but I'm sure you can add at least a few more innings to this total.
2008-08-26 15:54:13
66.   underdog
63 Yep. One of the several reasons I moved back to SF eventually. (At least now there are some more train/light rail options in the LA area than there were back then.)
2008-08-26 15:57:15
67.   trainwreck
66
If I coming from East Bay on BART, what is fastest way to get to Golden Gate Park area? I have never used the buses in SF.
2008-08-26 15:58:55
68.   Zak
It looks like we will miss Jake Peavy during the home series against SD next week. It will be really really depressing if we don't win all of those games. Again, I understand we probably won't, but we really should.
2008-08-26 15:59:43
69.   D4P
It looks like we will miss Jake Peavy during the home series against SD next week

It sure seems as if we have missed an inordinate number of other teams' best pitchers this year.

2008-08-26 16:01:33
70.   fanerman
67 When I went to Golden Gate Park over the weekend from the East Bay, I got off at Embarcadero and took the MUNI "N-line" and got off somewhere around 19th and Judah or 31st and Judah. You could stay on BART until Civic Center and still get on the N-Line.

If you use BART, you can get a 25 cent discount on MUNI (so it costs $1.25 instead of $1.50) by grabbing a stub from a dispenser right after you get off the escalator from the BART tunnel but before you exit the BART area (ie, before you push the BART ticket through the machine and cross the gate). I think.

2008-08-26 16:02:20
71.   Eric Stephen
64
Yeah, I think I over thought that one. Trust me, I don't want AZ to shuffle their rotation against us, though. :)
2008-08-26 16:02:27
72.   Zak
It would be really cool if both STL and AZ are in a tight race when they meet the last week of Sept. We have a 10 game road trip in Sept against sub .500 teams, but SD always plays us hard, and we make heavy lifting of it in COL. I hope we are within 1 or 2 games going into that last week.
2008-08-26 16:03:12
73.   thinkblue88
69.
Yet the crappy ones still pitch great against us anyways.
2008-08-26 16:04:17
74.   Zak
69 Agreed. But it seems like we always end up facing Webb, so that sucks. Peavy and Webb have killed us over the years. And they're both young and not leaving our division any time soon.
2008-08-26 16:07:42
75.   Marty
I worked in Torrance 13 years and lived there 7.
Good things: Next to Redondo Beach, Snax Superburger, The Crest bar, the temperature.
Bad things: Relatively few trees, really bad ranch-style homes, what trees there are are covered in aluminum foil at Xmas time, refineries that explode occasionally.
2008-08-26 16:08:48
76.   underdog
67/70 - What fanerman said. Except you can also take the N and get off much earlier, if you get off at Stanyan you can walk down to the Stanyan entrance to park. Or get off at 9th avenue and walk down that way to where the museums are.

You can also transfer to the 5 Fulton bus or 21-Hayes bus or 71 Haight bus and take those along either side of the park (pick up on any Market street BART stop).

--

Okay, here we go Dodgers, time to begin your Wake Up and Smell the Coffee Tour!

2008-08-26 16:10:30
77.   Mike Scioscias tragic illness
5 Guys burgers, I must say, are massively overrated.

And really bad for you; a regular burger with fries there is about 1400 calories.

2008-08-26 16:10:38
78.   ToyCannon
We may be in a crappy division but with Peavy, Webb, Haren, Lincecum, Cain, Billingsley, and Kershaw we could put together quite a group of youngish rotational stars.
2008-08-26 16:10:58
79.   underdog
I know it seems that way, and it's happened more than we'd like, but if the crappy pitchers always fared well against the Dodgers they'd be below, well below, .500. And we've missed plenty of good pitchers lately, but if you look at all the matchups this season through all the months, we've faced more than enough good NL pitchers for my taste. Doesn't counter the fact the Dodger offense has often been non-existent, just that it's not quite as often as it seems.

Still, would be nice to get off the "schneid" against a team we should beat.

2008-08-26 16:11:35
80.   Tripon
Well, Matt Kemp didn't last long.
2008-08-26 16:12:12
81.   ToyCannon
1400 Calories - I wonder what an Astro Buffalo Burger is?
2008-08-26 16:12:54
82.   Tripon
Wow, that stadium looks dead.
2008-08-26 16:13:19
83.   underdog
So much for patient at bats to start. This pitcher must look awfully enticing to the Dodgers hitters or something.
2008-08-26 16:13:24
84.   Jim Hitchcock
75 You worked at the Daily Breeze?
2008-08-26 16:13:52
85.   underdog
82 It's just resting.
2008-08-26 16:14:12
86.   Zak
83 Is he wearing a halter top or a tank top?
2008-08-26 16:15:32
87.   Marty
84 Yes sir.
2008-08-26 16:15:36
88.   Tripon
Its amusing that the difference between a lineup with Kent and without Kent has Martin batting second and Ethier third, and with Kent has Martin batting sixth, and Ethier 2nd.
2008-08-26 16:15:55
89.   Zak
7 pitches. I think the Dodger strategy is there's no point in long at-bats against bad pitchers since we don't want them to leave the game early. That way, when they least expect it, we can surprise them with a.... walk.
2008-08-26 16:17:15
90.   Tripon
I'd like to see Ethier bat leadoff. He doesn't have a great OBP, but he works the count usually, and if you're not scoring runs, you want to tire the starting pitcher and make him waste pitches.
2008-08-26 16:17:36
91.   Jim Hitchcock
87 Back in the days of the battle between Hawthorne PD and the paper?
2008-08-26 16:17:41
92.   Zak
I think it's more amusing that now Martin has been tagged with the "can't hit in front of Manny" reputation and doesn't get to hit in the 3 spot anymore. Has he had any games batting 3rd since he was removed from that spot?
2008-08-26 16:18:05
93.   trainwreck
70 76
Thanks.
2008-08-26 16:18:41
94.   Gen3Blue
Uh-oh Has the worm not turned yet.

Will it ever.

2008-08-26 16:20:31
95.   underdog
Nice start for Lowe!
2008-08-26 16:22:05
96.   Tripon
Larry Brown: "The thing is they got guys that are willing to make a three-year commitment, which I think is tremendous," Brown said of this current Team USA. "We had guys that committed (for 2004) and then all of a sudden 9/11 happened, and then there were injuries."

http://deadspin.com/5042040/college-football-previews-3-ohio-state

2008-08-26 16:23:22
97.   Humma Kavula
We were living in Altadena. I was commuting to Hollywood and Lovely Bride was commuting to... Pasadena.

Then lovely bride got a new job and started commuting to Redondo Beach. As we were figuring out what we were going to do about her commute, I got a new job in Culver City.

We moved to Hawthorne.

2008-08-26 16:25:27
98.   scareduck
25 - the old saw: in eggs and bacon, the hen is involved, the pig is committed.
2008-08-26 16:27:04
99.   scareduck
97 - at one point I was investigating buying in Hawthorne. About the only part where I would really consider living is the Del Vista part (IIRC, it's been about a decade since I was seriously looking) west of the 405, the smallest part of Hawthorne. The rest was pretty much gangland.
2008-08-26 16:29:28
100.   underdog
Yay! Russell's learned to hit again.

He's not back to Golden God status but maybe at least Bronze God.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-08-26 16:29:55
101.   Humma Kavula
99 That's Hollyglen. That's where we live. It's a great neighborhood.
2008-08-26 16:30:24
102.   whodat807
Though I currently