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2008 Season

Dodger home record: 50-35 (.588)
When Jon attended: 9-5 (.643)
When Jon didn't: 41-30 (.577)

1991-2008

Dodgers at home: 795-635 (.556)
Jon attended: 302-238 (.559)*
Jon didn't: 498-404 (.552)
* includes road games attended

2009 Payroll Worksheet

Current Roster with Estimated 2009 Salaries
(updated November 14)

Most figures are estimates (some are wild estimates) but will be updated as information comes in. Corrections welcome.

More contract details here.

Starting Pitchers (5)
$10,000,000 Hiroki Kuroda
*$475,000 Chad Billingsley
*$415,000 Clayton Kershaw
*$405,000 Eric Stults
*$400,000 James McDonald
*Total: $11,695,000

Bullpen (7)
*$2,500,000 Takashi Saito
*$1,300,000 Scott Proctor
*$1,500,000 Jonathan Broxton
*$425,000 Hong-Chih Kuo
*$420,000 Cory Wade
*$410,000 Ramon Troncoso
*$400,000 Scott Elbert
Total: $6,955,000

Also on 40-man roster
Mario Alvarez
Yhency Brazoban
Greg Miller
Justin Orenduff

Starting Lineup (8)
$17,100,000 Andruw Jones
*$3,000,000 Russell Martin
*$2,500,000 Andre Ethier
*$600,000 Matt Kemp
*$600,000 James Loney
*$500,000 Angel Berroa
*$410,000 Blake DeWitt
*$400,000 Tony Abreu
Total: $25,110,000

Bench (5)
$10,000,000 Juan Pierre
*$600,000 Jason Repko
*$410,000 Delwyn Young
*$400,000 Danny Ardoin
*$400,000 Chin-Lung Hu
Total: $11,810,000
Note: Team can buy out Ozuna's 2009 option for $200,000

Also on 40-man roster
A.J. Ellis
Lucas May
Xavier Paul

Disabled List
$12,000,000 Jason Schmidt

Also Paying ...
$2,000,000 Brad Penny (buyout of $9,000,000 option)
$50,000 Gary Bennett (buyout of $900,000 option)
Note: Kansas City is responsible for $500,000 buyout of Angel Berroa's $5,500,000 option for 2009.

Working total: *$68,020,000

The 2008 Dodgers

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Partners in Fallibility: Arizona and Los Angeles Stumble to the Finish
2008-08-28 08:16
by Jon Weisman

To paraphrase Gregory House, "Everybody loses." Dodger fans can't understand how their team is still in the National League West race; Arizona's faithful must wonder how their team can still be in first place. But there the Diamondbacks sit, mocking Los Angeles with their grandiose .511 winning percentage. It must feel pretty special (relatively speaking), right?

To get the lowdown on the day before another three-game showcase showdown between the two struggling clubs, I checked in with Jim McLennan of AZ Snakepit. Here's how our chat went:

Jon: Jim, the Dodgers have been nipping at Arizona's heels for months now, but haven't been able to do the leapfrog thing. In fact, now the Dodgers are back under .500 and as far out of the NL West lead as they've been all summer. How confident are you guys feeling about winning the division?

Jim: According to coolstandings.com, we have a 71.3 percent chance of winning the division at time of writing, but you'd be hard-pushed to find any Arizona fan who feels anywhere near that confident. Obviously, being in front is the place to be, and every game where the Dodgers don't catch up helps the Diamondbacks: time is on our side, not yours. That said, I'd be a lot more optimistic if both teams were playing well: it's hardly comfortable when our team motto is no longer, "Anybody, anytime," but "Well, at least Los Angeles lost, too." The question is as much, how confident are you guys feeling about not winning it?

Jon: The Phillies series, which reversed the Dodgers' four-game sweep of them earlier in the month, was as big a morale destroyer as I've seen all year, and things haven't gotten any better in Washington. But Arizona losing five of six during the same period just showed that, though Dodger fans shouldn't necessarily be confident, they shouldn't give up either.

Jim: Both teams made post-deadline moves, acquiring sluggers in Manny Ramirez and Adam Dunn. Why did the Dodgers not put in a claim on Dunn, to stop the Diamondbacks from getting him? And do you think either team has a realistic shot at signing their player long-term?

Jon: The Dodgers haven't addressed the claiming Dunn question officially; the conclusion we're left with is that it was a non-issue for them, and/or they didn't want to deal with the potential financial and roster implications of having him on the team. Neither of those answers are particularly satisfying for a lot of us.

The Dodgers will have the ability to sign a top-tier free agent this offseason, so I think they have a shot at Ramirez, but I don't know if the will is there. During the brief period in which Alex Rodriguez was a free agent last fall, the Dodgers didn't position themselves as serious contenders. I'm not saying the situations are identical, but I don't tend to think that a Ramirez deal will get done. I have to admit, I hadn't even gotten to the point of wondering whether Dunn would be with Arizona in 2009. What do you think?

Jim: While I'd like to see it, I'm doubtful we have enough room to make a competitive offer. It's a relatively thin free-agent market this year, and it's probable that we also have to replace Orlando Hudson at second base. If we hadn't already committed to paying Eric Byrnes through 2010, I could see us moving Conor Jackson to LF permanently, and making an offer, but I think we'll take the two draft picks and move on.

Here in Arizona, we expect to see pitching phenom Max Scherzer added to the Diamondbacks roster as part of the September expansion, though it's not sure if he will see playing time as a starter or strengthening the bullpen, which has struggled of late. Los Angeles have their own phenom in Clayton Kershaw, but there's some question as to whether he would be available in the playoffs, or even for the full season. How far do you see him going?

Jon: Part of the rationale behind the Greg Maddux pickup was to allow the Dodgers to stick to their plan of curtailing Kershaw's innings at about 170. You won't see Kershaw start in the playoffs even if the Dodgers have the opportunity, and I think he would be used sparingly in relief. Chad Billingsley, Derek Lowe, Hiroki Kuroda and Maddux would form the postseason rotation. It might be worth noting that James McDonald is another young starter who could see some action at least out of the bullpen in September.

I've noticed several commentators of late leaning toward Arizona because of their big three: Brandon Webb, Dan Haren and Randy Johnson. But Johnson's not exactly the pitcher he used to be. What's your feeling about the Diamondback rotation overall heading into the stretch run?

Jim: Johnson has been a second-half revelation. Many people expected him to flag, or be skipped occasionally to keep him fresh, but he hasn't missed a game all year - and has a 1.82 ERA, with a K:BB ratio of 53:7, in eight starts since the All-Star Game. He seems to have benefited from a side session he threw during the break, under the eye of pitching coach Tom House. Can he keep it up? Well, he could double that post-break ERA and still be a formidable #3. Personally, I'm more concerned about Doug Davis, who may be wearing down - understandably - after having his cancerous thyroid removed in April, or Yusmeiro Petit and his amazing .195 BABIP.

The Dodgers offense, even with Ramirez, is scuffling badly. The series opener against the Nationals made it eight consecutive games scoring three runs or less, tying an NL season-high. Is there a particular cause? And, perhaps more importantly for L.A., a cure?

Jon: They're slumping, slumping badly. This is a challenged offensive team, reliant for the most part on stringing hits together, but clearly, if this is some record-high streak of ineptitude in the NL for 2008, it's not the Dodgers' usual behavior. They are leaving runners on base rather than not getting them on in the first place, which is usually a sign that a team isn't hopeless at the plate. So the cure is time. Whether that cure will come soon enough, or with enough time remaining in the schedule, I don't know.

And yet, there's Arizona, with a chance to go four up in the division, letting San Diego knock out Webb. Neither of these teams can really seem to get their act together. Webb losing is obviously a fluke, but what is the Diamondbacks' biggest worry?

Jim: If anything is going to sink us, it's the bullpen. They have a second-half ERA of 5.34, and an 0-8 record after July 10. I've a nasty feeling manager Bob Melvin blew out Brandon Lyon's arm by using him in hard, back-to-back-to-back outings just after the break: his ERA before that was 2.43, but balloons to 12.75 since. Any apparent resulting lack of blown saves is largely because we've only had three in August - and Lyon had to be bailed out in one of those. While Melvin still professes confidence in his closer, I have little, and set-up man Jon Rauch, with his 6.19 ERA for us, isn't much more inspiring. We have good relievers - Juan Cruz and Tony Peña have generally been solid recently - but Melvin apparently dislikes using them in high-leverage situations for some reason.

But enough gloom and depression! Who - presumably outside of Manny - do you expect to step up and carry the Dodgers through the last month of the season?

Jon: Aside from Ramirez, I think it's really going to be up to the younger non-rookies - Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, James Loney and even Russell Martin, though he has logged more than 1,000 innings behind the plate, to have enough left to carry the offense. It's getting to be too late for Rafael Furcal to have much of an impact, though perhaps he might be able to offer occasional help off the bench in September. But overall, I think the key to the Dodgers winning will have to be pitching depth. Though Los Angeles can't match Arizona ace-for-ace, the Dodgers do have a solid staff top-to-bottom. There have been some blown saves, but I'm still confident in the group overall. I'm really hoping they can keep the muzzle on opponents in September.

And who will be Arizona's heroes, should they have heroes?

Jim: Justin Upton should return, and certainly has the chance - if he can regain his April form, where he batted 327/.372/.554. It's a big "if" however, since he hit below .200 after that. Third-baseman Mark Reynolds is notoriously streaky, so could get hot down the stretch too. But it's the rotation that has taken Arizona this far, and it'll be them that we need to keep us in games. In particular, I'd love to see Davis come through with some clutch performances: it'd be the ultimate feel-good story off the season, to go from being diagnosed with cancer to leading his team into the playoffs.

Looking into the post-season, how do you think the Dodgers would match-up against the other contenders? Who do you fear most?

Jon: I mostly fear the television industry making fun of the Dodgers even being in the postseason. I can't even think about potential Dodger playoff opponents. I just know that the pitching staff would have to come up huge, and the Dodgers would basically just need to get some of the luck that has eluded them since 1988.

Jim: I look forward to the ESPN angst if L.A. or Arizona make the playoffs, and the Yankees don't, despite a better record! I feel the same about Arizona's chances - but once you reach the playoffs, the first 162 games become meaningless. That's probably the biggest thing either of our teams have in their favor.

Jon: Okay, that should do it for now, Jim. Thanks for the chat – and we'll just wait to see if Colorado passes both these teams by ...

Comments (197)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-08-28 09:08:32
1.   Prescott Pete
I really feel like giving up. But I can't stop watching this train wreck.
2008-08-28 09:14:43
2.   regfairfield
We're not so different, you and I.
2008-08-28 09:28:46
3.   LogikReader
Jon, that was one of the most fun chats I've read in a long time. Thanks for sharing that exchange with us.

It's good to see that we're not the only ones with problems in MLB... and that Dbacks fans share the same frustration.

So no matter what the differences are between division rivals, fans of every team have the same passion for the game. That's comforting to know.

2008-08-28 09:30:22
4.   Eric Stephen
I was looking forward to listening to today's 10am game at work, so imagine my surprise when I find out the game doesn't start until 4pm.

The Dodgers are in Washington, roughly 2,300 miles away, and they have to play tonight, then travel to Arizona for tomorrow night's game, while Arizona played a day game yesterday San Diego, took the hour flight home, and gets today off.

I have two different brothers attending Dodger games in the next three days, so hopefully they can bring them more luck than I have.

2008-08-28 09:32:38
5.   underdog
That was indeed a fun read, Jon, thanks to you and Jim for taking the initiative. We'll show those DBacks and their fans a thing or two about struggles and frustrations, hoo boy, boy howdy!

4 Yah, I had the same reaction. Assumed it was a morning game and lo! The schedulemakers add a cruel twist to the Dodgers already rough past week. Be nice to get on that plane with a win, at least.

2008-08-28 09:33:01
6.   scareduck
Somebody in yesterday's or the day before's thread was lamenting Bob Timmermann's absence to answer a question regarding the team's worst road skids. The Los Angeles Dodgers have had only one road skid of 8 or more losses, and that was in 1992 from June 2 through June 21, during which they lost to the Pirates, Reds, Braves, and Astros. The worst road skid in franchise history hit the 1944 team, losing 17 games from June 18 through July 16 to Philadelphia, Chicago, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Boston.
2008-08-28 09:34:44
7.   Bluebleeder87
thanks for the Chat Jon & Jim. Should be a great series.
2008-08-28 09:39:58
8.   GMac In The 909
Everything ends badly ... or else it wouldn't end.
2008-08-28 09:41:28
9.   underdog
Speaking of ending badly, I can't imagine Shawn Merriman's decision to play despite torn knee ligaments will end well.
2008-08-28 09:46:56
10.   Howard Fox
9 he will anchor their defense, they will have a terrific season, and his knee will give out during the first playoff game, throwing them into disarray
2008-08-28 09:47:42
11.   kinbote
Great read, Jon. Thank you.

For better or worse, I pretty much gave up on this team when we traded Carlos Santana for Casey Blake. At that point, I just could not deal psychologically with our upper management.

More recently, the team's almost daily inability to capitalize on opportunities has made me give up again [!]. Good teams take every advantage given to them; we don't. The only hope we have left is if we somehow radically turn it all around. I just don't see that happening.

The Arizona situation just makes this year all the more frustrating. The fact that the division leader is mediocre doesn't change my impression of this team at all. We are less than good.

The Ned Colletti era is going to end with the quietest of whimpers--and a whole lot of decisions to be made this offseason.

2008-08-28 09:54:36
12.   Eric Stephen
I'm not sure I'm capable of giving up until the Dodgers are mathematically eliminated, but the Dodgers pretty much have to win at least 4 of the 6 games against AZ to have a chance in my mind.

It would be nice being only 1 GB (or better) with 19 games to play, heading into the series in San Diego, which will be the first Dodgers' sweep in SD since June 28 - July 1, 2001.

2008-08-28 09:58:00
13.   Eric Stephen
I just realized technically the Dodgers can't be 1 GB with 19 to play because of the different schedules. Starting after tonight's game, the dreaded ½ game will apply through September 22, the final Monday of the regular season.
2008-08-28 09:59:50
14.   ToyCannon
We only need to be 3 games back with 3 games left to play.
2008-08-28 10:00:29
15.   LogikReader
6

That was me. Thank you for looking that up, scareduck.

Wow only 8... let's hope it stays that way.

2008-08-28 10:01:09
16.   Eric Stephen
14
Once you've experienced 1980, anything can happen!
2008-08-28 10:05:22
17.   briano
The Dodgers season is over. Why consider anything more. This team left its heart in San Francisco a few weeks ago and that was the determining series for me. Unfortunately, the Joe Torre experiment hasn't worked and to think that the Dodgers may consider Brian Cashman when they get rid of Ned scares me. The Yankees haven't been going anywhere since 2000 what makes any Dodgers fan think Yankees west could do any better (without the payroll of Steinbrenner). Again, ad nauseum, we need to go back (way back) to the Dodger Way. Remember, the Dodger Way. Just look south on the 5 and you'll see how it is and how it use to be in Dodgerland. I don't even want to start putting together my suggestions for next years management team or the field team, for that matter. This organization needs to come to the conclusion that it is far off course in its judgment of player and management personnel. Sadly, until the McCourts change their perspective, this organization is going nowhere for many more years
2008-08-28 10:08:31
18.   Eric Stephen
On July 30, 1982, the Dodgers -- losers of 5 of their last 7 -- stumbled into Atlanta, trailing the Joe Torre-led Braves by 10 games. Over the next 13 games, the Dodgers won 12 -- including all 8 against the Braves -- and took the division lead.
2008-08-28 10:09:27
19.   kinbote
Just look south on the 5 and you'll see how it is and how it use to be in Dodgerland.

Well put. The combination of productive farm system, high payroll, and attractive geography/history should make failure not an option.

2008-08-28 10:10:12
20.   underdog
17 That's the spirit!
2008-08-28 10:13:30
21.   briano
20 - I want to believe this team and organization will pull through, but the reality of the situation is the Dodgers have no heart and the organization is not willing to do what is really necessary to bring it back to prominence.
2008-08-28 10:14:39
22.   GMac In The 909
17 I'd like to sign up for your newsletter ... but only if the Nationals complete the sweep.
2008-08-28 10:16:01
23.   Howard Fox
21 and just what should they do to achieve that?
2008-08-28 10:17:32
24.   whodat807
The worst thing about this terrible week is it transforming Dodger fans into pre-2004 Red Sox fans.
2008-08-28 10:18:16
25.   Jon Weisman
"the Dodgers have no heart"

Please explain how you know this.

Is it basically, teams that lose have no heart?

2008-08-28 10:18:47
26.   LogikReader
I'm not going to give up just yet, just because whats the worst that could happen anyway?

The combination of productive farm system, high payroll, and attractive geography/history should make failure not an option.

That's part of the problem, though. I think the Dodger organization, for 20 years at least, rested on its laurels, assuming that great players will just run to Dodger Stadium.

Somewhere down the line the Dodgers as a whole has to realize "we are not very good, we have not been very good, and if we don't recognize our weaknesses, we will never be any good."

I thought the Dodgers were getting there until the last two years. Then Ned and Frank assume that, once again "we're just a player away." It's just not true.

2008-08-28 10:25:06
27.   scareduck
26 - it seems to me that little has changed since 1988. The Dodgers have never really adapted well to the realities of free agency, and this trend has gotten worse over time.
2008-08-28 10:25:10
28.   Eric Stephen
24
It's better than post-2004 Red Sox fans!
2008-08-28 10:25:42
29.   bhsportsguy
21 the Dodgers have no heart and the organization is not willing to do what is really necessary to bring it back to prominence.

Whether you agree or not agree on how they allocated their spending dollars, if we are use their payroll as an example of anything, it would be that they are willing to spend the money to try and build a competitive team.

As far as heart goes, for this year's team, heart was certainly apparent when I saw them comeback against the Phillies down 6-1, two weeks ago. I always think a run scoring drought does more to affect a fan's psyche than bad pitching or even a blown save. When a team is constantly leaving runners on base or doing things out of synch, it just looks to the fan like the players are out of it.

We all follow the numbers here to a certain extent, some a lot more than others and yet its hard to believe that while the other seems to get that one break to score a run with 2 outs, this team somehow blows chance after chance, even with the bases loaded and nobody out.

The Dodgers may not be able to recover this nearly 2 week stretch but they still have their fate in their hands, it might be painful and discouraging, but I will be there until the end.

For the Dodgers sake, they should try to be no more than 1-2 games out by next Friday since that is the deadline for playoff tix.

2008-08-28 10:26:05
30.   scareduck
23 - The Dodgers need some patience. So long as Frank McCourt is running the show, that will never happen.
2008-08-28 10:27:34
31.   CodyS
25 I think it's teams that lose to beatable teams at critical junctures of the season, making mental errors, failing to provide situational hitting, and just generally playing their worst ball when it counts most.
2008-08-28 10:27:41
32.   briano
21 - Talk to the people that were there for the glory years. Sit down with them in complete humility, shut up, and listen. Who? Talk to Garvey, Cey, Russel, Snider, Tommy Davis, whoever was in the Dodgers organization back in the 60's and 70's and 80's. This was the top organization in all of sports at one time. Pride and arrogance is what has brought this organization down. It started with complacency in the 90's under O'Malley, then went down in the arrogance dept. under Fox. Now McCourt needs to forget about the two organizations in the American League East and concentrate on what was with the team that was the best for decades. Again, its working consistently down in Anaheim. There's no coincidence here. Scioscia, Hatcher, Roenecke are all from the Dodgers farm system (not sure on Roenecke though). Mike brought the Dodgers attitude with him down south and it has transferred to their farm system. They have set a standard that will last for years to come. Arte Moreno is Walter O'Malley. He is a true visionary and it's working. Can anyone doubt the success they have had. I tip my cap to the organization. Now, McCourt & Co. need to swallow their pride, take a good look at themselves, look at the Dodgers past, and look at the Angels, and see their possible future. That would be a fabulous start.
2008-08-28 10:32:15
33.   Jon Weisman
32 - First of all, I thought you were talking about the team, not the management. The Dodgers have been arrogant - no doubt about it. But does that mean they don't have heart?

I'd argue that the problem is not so emotional but just a matter of smarts.

So maybe we're just having a semantics issue here. You're throwing a lot of words out there, some of which I'd agree with: pride, arrogance, lack of vision. But "heart" to me implies caring, and I don't think it's fair to accuse members of the Dodger organization of not caring.

2008-08-28 10:32:19
34.   Howard Fox
30 you name one successful business owner who has patience
2008-08-28 10:33:56
35.   LogikReader
Part of the phenomenon is attitude. I get a sense of entitlement from the media and some fans about the Dodgers which doesn't exist for other NL West Teams. If you watch a Giants game for instance, they already know they're going to be awful so they kick back and enjoy the moment.

Meanwhile you get this sense from Charley and Steve that the Dodgers are expected to win every game. Confidence is good, but that kind of arrogance isn't good if it isn't earned. You can't expect a team built to go .500 to win 120 games. There needs be perspective.

2008-08-28 10:33:59
36.   Tripon
34 Warren Buffett
2008-08-28 10:34:41
37.   Jon Weisman
I am very much an also-ran as far as my career goes. Does that mean I didn't have heart?
2008-08-28 10:36:35
38.   LogikReader
33

Jon is right. No matter what the liabilities are for our club, "not caring" will never be one of them.

2008-08-28 10:37:19
39.   Howard Fox
36 maybe now he has patience, but he is already successful

37 success is measured in different ways for different people, and it is by what is important to them, not to others

2008-08-28 10:37:23
40.   Eric Stephen
32
I'm asking in all honesty: what is it about the Angels that makes them current torchbearers of the Dodger Way? Is it just that Scioscia, Hatcher, et al were ex-Dodgers? They have obviously been successful in the past few years, but what are the specifically doing different besides "attitude" that makes them successful?
2008-08-28 10:38:06
41.   Gen3Blue
Excellent idea for a post and also well done. I'm not giving up yet and see a lot more of bad luck and injuries, than of lack of heart in the current situation.

If you extend that situation to the past several years you have to consider management and ownership. I will be nearly suicidal if we emerge from this long run of great farm system work only mediocre. Its hard to state how hard it would be to botch things up after the string of gifts the farm system has yielded, and we haven't quite messed it up yet.

2008-08-28 10:38:21
42.   Humma Kavula
37 When I first moved to LA, I was the cliche guy-trying-to-be-a-screenwriter. I wrote a few screenplays with went no-ho-ho-where. I eventually found success in an entirely different field.

When people ask me why I don't write my own stuff anymore, I say, "I just don't want it all that much."

In other words, I have no heart.

2008-08-28 10:38:25
43.   briano
Jon, they show no heart when I see them in the dugout staring in the distance as if they just had the wind kicked out of them. I understand it's a long season, and they are tired. However, leadership tells them they can still win that particular game. Losing is not an option. Torre has too casual of an attitude towards losing. The players and managers body language seems to me to say, "Oh well, there's always tomorrow's game." That's not what I witness when I watch some other teams that are champions. They won't tolerate losing. And it shows in their actions and in their demeanor. In other words, they don't seem to have any fight in them.
2008-08-28 10:38:26
44.   LogikReader
I get the feeling all of this talk will dissipate if the Dodgers blow out the Nats tonight.
2008-08-28 10:39:44
45.   Humma Kavula
Also, whenever The Dodger Way comes up in conversation, I can't help but remember Jon's words: there's only one franchise that traded Jackie Robinson.

And yes, I know why that's a problematic sentence, but the point is still valid.

2008-08-28 10:41:04
46.   bhsportsguy
32 Hey, I was there, those were the first teams that I would call my Dodgers but I do think we tend to look back at only the good things and fail to remember some the disasterous free agent signings that were made as well as really the slow and ultimately death of the farm system and poor drafts that started in the early '80s.

Also, since the Angels are winning, their past few years of wildly spending Arte's money gets underplayed and certainly they had some contracts leftover from the Stoneman/Disney days that they are finally getting rid of but giving extensions to Kelvim Escobar with his injury history, the large contract to Bartolo Colon, Gary Matthews Jr., numerous middle relievers and their farm system, while certainly productive, has had their share of misses.

I am not saying that the Dodgers will ever be like it was in 1977, it can't be, free agency changed that forever. But baseball teams and management is and always will be pretty much the same, the problems that bother the 2008 Dodgers were probably no different than any other frustrating ball team that has picked up a glove and bat in the long history of the game.

2008-08-28 10:42:16
47.   Howard Fox
44 I'd be happy with just a win

all this talk about heart reminds me of barracuda

2008-08-28 10:43:12
48.   briano
33 Jon, I agree with you. I think the team cares, I just want to see more fight in the team's attitude.
2008-08-28 10:44:13
49.   Tripon
Obviously the Dodgers should start to get Pigs hearts, and chitlins, and chicken feet and the beaks of ducks to get their mojos back.
2008-08-28 10:44:58
50.   Jon Weisman
43 - So when I see Matt Kemp thoroughly frustrated after his eighth-inning bases-loaded out, and putting all the blame on himself after the game, what am I to conclude?

You compare the Dodgers to the look that champions have, but don't you think it's a lot easier to project the right image when you've been on a winning run? Did the Dodgers have the look of no heart when they were down by five against Philadelphia two weeks ago?

I think trying to judge a team's emotional worth from a snapshot of TV images is a waste of time, but we can agree to disagree.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-08-28 10:45:09
51.   Howard Fox
49 sounds great, I'll fire up the BBQ
2008-08-28 10:46:01
52.   LogikReader
Whatever happened to that gnome that worked for us?
2008-08-28 10:46:12
53.   briano
32 Those Angels teams won and went to the playoffs. Every great team and organization has made mistakes. Look at the Lakers we all see the blunders they have made, but they always seem to make a comeback and get back in the Finals.
2008-08-28 10:46:14
54.   bhsportsguy
Its interesting that in both the '70s and '80s team luncheons I went to this year, its apparent that no matter how big a star that player was, outside of Fernando, Tommy Lasorda was the straw that stirred that cocktail for the most succesful run after Koufax, Drysdale and Wills teams.

And to that extent, I do tend to believe that some fans (I am not saying this about anyone on this particular thread), really miss Tommy's constant chatter and emotions on his sleeve approach to managing.

Which is totally counter to both Mike Scioscia and Joe Torre.

2008-08-28 10:47:04
55.   briano
Sorry I meant 46. My apologies.
2008-08-28 10:47:34
56.   Doctor
The problem with this team is what it has always been all year. The model of play the cheap kids and give them some help with 3-4 big ticket free agent doens't work when none of the big ticket free agents helps the team. Jones/Pierre/Schmidt/Furcal are half the payroll and they are useless. I know its been said before, but it is what it is.... that is why this is a busted year. Ned's plan didn't work. Turns out IQ matters.
2008-08-28 10:48:25
57.   okdodge
52 - Kemp must have moved the little guy.
2008-08-28 10:51:22
58.   bhsportsguy
53 It's interesting to me when people point towards the Angels. Since it sounds like you have been following baseball for a while, you have to realize that while the Angels have an incredible run, for the first 4 decades of their existence, it was pretty much not even a fair fight, I guess the 90's could be a draw but it has only been the last 5-6 years that has caused this apparent slide. You could argue that the Angels have made this a two market area because up until recently, it wasn't.
2008-08-28 10:51:50
59.   briano
50 Jon, I can't disagree with your logic. It's solid. However, seeing "the heart" of the boys two weeks ago should still be there in their 6 game skids as well. It's called faith in your abilities. We are problably long on the road of semantics now. Maybe I'd be better to say this: I want this team to appear to believe in themselves and their abilities. I guess that's all I'm trying to convey. But the organization is a different argument.
2008-08-28 10:52:56
60.   Jon Weisman
59 - Yeah, I think we both want the same things.
2008-08-28 10:53:16
61.   bhsportsguy
56 Then, I guess I would have to fire myself as a fan since I agreed with 3 of those moves, it just didn't work out, it happens.
2008-08-28 10:53:36
62.   Howard Fox
60 yes, life liberty and the pursuit of happiness
2008-08-28 10:54:06
63.   briano
58 Since Sciosia and the Dodger Way was instituted. Absolutely my point.
2008-08-28 10:55:37
64.   Tripon
Wonder what the Dodgers eat? Burgers, Fruits, Veggies? Seriously, I think its time to spike the food with heart juices from the blood of new born calves.
2008-08-28 10:55:58
65.   Howard Fox
61 no, we'll just put you on the fan 15 day DL but continue to pay you
2008-08-28 10:57:41
66.   briano
58 Sciosia may not appear to wear his emotions on his sleeve from what I've read over the years he has no problem letting his players know what he expects. Walter Alston was the Quiet Man too. But if you saw that movie, he knew how to get his punch, er, I mean, point accross.
2008-08-28 10:57:43
67.   fanerman
64 Heart juice! So simple.
2008-08-28 10:58:18
68.   Alex41592
61 - I fired myself as a fan when I left early Opening Day 2005. But, the Dodgers keep letting me in so who am I to tell them different?
2008-08-28 10:59:40
69.   Eric Stephen
58
It's generous to call the 1990s a draw. Certainly the Angels have dominated the landscape during the aughts, but the Dodgers relatively ruled the roost in the 1990s:

Dodgers
797-757 (.513), 2 divisions (counting '94), 4 more 2nd place finishes (1 Wild Card), only finished lower than 3rd twice

Angels
738-817 (.475), 3 second place finishes (their only finishes higher than 4th), no playoff experiences

Factor in the periwinkle uniforms of the latter portion of the decade, and the 1990s was all Dodgers. :)

2008-08-28 11:00:18
70.   Doctor
61

Ha, yea... I hear ya. I think you can hold the GM to higher standards though. You probably were not at Andruw's physical, Schmidt's doctors office/scout room etc..... sure, stuff happens though.

2008-08-28 11:00:50
71.   Howard Fox
69 yes, but the angels had heart
2008-08-28 11:02:25