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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
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11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

4 x 200
2008-09-15 08:22
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

Though Hong-Chih Kuo took the loss Sunday, he and three other Dodger relievers are on the verge of doing something unprecedented.

Since 1901, no quartet of relievers from one team in major-league baseball has ever had each member post adjusted ERAs of at least 200, with a minimum of 40 innings pitched in a season.

In addition, not since 1968 and only once since 1916 has a team had four relievers with ERAs at 2.25 or below.

The Dodger reliever numbers:

2008 Dodger Bullpen Leaders
Name Innings ERA ERA+
Joe Beimel 43 2/3 2.06 214
Hong-Chih Kuo 80 2.14* 207
Takashi Saito 41 1/3 2.18 203
Cory Wade 64 2.25 196
Chan Ho Park 90 2/3 2.88* 153
Jonathan Broxton 63 2/3 3.25 136

*Kuo has a 1.69 ERA as reliever; Park has a 3.15 ERA as a reliever.

In order to get ERAs below 2.00, Beimel needs to pitch 1 2/3 shutout innings, Saito four and Wade 8 1/3. Perhaps the most memorable bullpen in Dodger history, the 2003 unit, had three such players: Eric Gagne (1.20), Paul Quantrill (1.75) and Guillermo Mota (1.97).

Two weeks to go.

* * *

Surmising that Adrian Beltre might have played his last game for the Seattle Mariners, Dave Cameron of U.S.S. Mariner reviews Beltre's four years there and pronounces him a success.

As a Mariner, Beltre has hit .267/.320/.455, which works out to about five percent better than a league average hitter would perform playing half his games in Safeco. Five percent may not sound like much, but a sustained advantage over four years adds up, and Beltre’s been worth about a total of 1.5 wins above an average hitter while wearing a Mariner jersey.

Of course, we all know that Beltre isn’t just a hitter - he’s also one of the best defensive third baseman alive, and he’s been a tremendous asset with the glove as well. ...

The Mariners have paid Adrian Beltre about $50 million over the last four years, including annual salaries and a prorated portion of his signing bonus. $50 million for 13.5 wins works out to about $3.7 million per win - the going rate for a free agent the last few years has been between $4 and $5 million per win.

No matter how you slice it, Adrian Beltre has been a relative bargain for the Mariners - a high quality player signed to a below market contract. Often maligned for his contract by those who don’t understand how valuable he’s been, Beltre has been one of the shining lights in a stretch of dark seasons.

If we really have seen the last of Adrian Beltre, it’ll be a shame. The Mariners need more players like Beltre, not less. I’m afraid that Beltre is doomed, however, to be the next Mike Cameron - wildly underrated during his time here and highly valuable to the teams that employ him after the M’s cut him loose. The Mariners have never been able to replace Cameron in the outfield, and it’s unlikely that they’ll be able to replace Beltre at third anytime soon.

Beltre turns 30 on April 7.

* * *

El Cholo is hosting an evening with Tommy Davis.  For more information, check out the ad on the right-hand sidebar.

 

 

 

Comments (328)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-15 08:32:00
1.   dianagramr
I'd love to Beltre in a Yankee uniform next year (with A-Rod moving to SS, Jeter to 2B and Cano to CF)

(yeah ... I'm smokin' something)

2008-09-15 08:36:41
2.   D4P
I kinda suspect that Dodger Stadium has devolved into a great pitcher's park this season.

Dodger Runs/Game

Home: 4.17
Away: 4.32

Dodger ERA

Home: 2.93
Road: 4.43

The 1.5 run difference in ERA is the 3rd largest in the league.

2008-09-15 08:38:51
3.   MC Safety
1 The guy that started this hubbub must have been smoking something as well.

KINSHASA , Congo -- At least 11 people were killed in a stadium riot in eastern Congo after a soccer player tried to use witchcraft to win a local match, U.N.-backed Radio Okapi reported on Monday.

http://tinyurl.com/5oksgk

2008-09-15 08:42:10
4.   Jon Weisman
2 - Maybe, but how would you explain it. The addition of Canter's Deli?
2008-09-15 08:43:11
5.   ToyCannon
Come on home Adrian. By the time he's done he will be one top career all time home run hitters as a 3rd baseman. Entering the 2008 season he was 30th on the list. At this moment he is now 22nd passing Decinces, Howard Johnson, Fryman, Chavez, Batista, and Horner.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/vdpz

I figure he will end up with at least 367 home runs putting him between 7-10 on the all time list.

2008-09-15 08:43:36
6.   Gen3Blue
My luck seems to have turned with the Dodgers as I avoided being LATed by seconds.

Anyone else like Beltre as a Dodger?

2008-09-15 08:45:05
7.   D4P
Maybe, but how would you explain it

Dunno.

2008-09-15 08:46:21
8.   ToyCannon
4
Digging into the mountain for the new concessions may have had bigger ramifications then expected.

This is funny in that for the last few years I've been wasting energy telling people who insisted that Dodger Stadium was a pitchers park that they were wrong, only to have it turn back into a pitchers park.

2008-09-15 08:48:14
9.   Disabled List
Beltre still has another year to go on his contract, which means that Seattle is gonna want a prospect haul if they trade him. And the Dodgers don't have a whole lot of prospects any more.
2008-09-15 08:51:23
10.   Sharkie
Pass on Beltre. His low OBP and age (30) probably means he won't age well. Once the power declines, what do you have left?

Dodger BP has been ACE!

2008-09-15 08:56:10
11.   D4P
Is there some stats site that allows us to look at home/road splits for relievers?
2008-09-15 08:58:04
12.   delias man
If the deal was right, I would love to have Belly back for his contract year. Worked well in 04. Then, maybe 2 #1 picks...
2008-09-15 09:01:31
13.   MC Safety
10 Good points, but I'd take Beltre's numbers and his glove over someone like Blake or Crede.
2008-09-15 09:02:18
14.   Disabled List
Any trade discussions for Beltre would probably start with McDonald. I don't know who else the M's would be interested in. (Lambo? DeWitt?)

At least Kemp and Kershaw have officially been removed from trade discussions.

2008-09-15 09:02:34
15.   dianagramr
9

Would you be interested in Robinson Cano or Melky Cabrera?

2008-09-15 09:04:09
16.   D4P
Ethier out-OPSing Kemp by 101 points.
2008-09-15 09:05:52
17.   silverwidow
15 No. I like DeWitt at 2B and Cabrera isn't any good.
2008-09-15 09:12:32
18.   ToyCannon
Did Andrew disappear?
2008-09-15 09:13:15
19.   regfairfield
10 Defense. Even Pedro Feliz is a valuable player thanks to his glove. I wouldn't want the guy for five years but he's going to be a useful player for at least the next couple years.
2008-09-15 09:13:47
20.   regfairfield
18 That was well timed. I went out of town this weekend.
2008-09-15 09:14:33
21.   ToyCannon
1
Wouldn't Jeter be a better CF then Cano?
2008-09-15 09:16:18
22.   ToyCannon
Andy LaRoche had 3 hits yesterday. Primed for a big series against the best team in the NL at the moment.
2008-09-15 09:20:43
23.   Bluebleeder87
6

I like him, but I really doubt we'll see him in a Dodger Uni.

2008-09-15 09:34:35
24.   old dodger fan
In 2008-
Beltre (age 30) 25 HR/ .266/.327/.457
Blake (age 34) 20 HR/ .279/.348/.469

I'd be OK with either one of them in '09 but if I had to give one a 4 yr contract it would be Beltre. Problem is we would have to give up something else to Seattle to get Beltre.

2008-09-15 09:36:03
25.   MollyKnight
Someone asked me to ask Beimel about the toughest lefties he's faced this year. I did. And he said: "Ha. I don't wanna answer that. I've got to keep any mental edge I've got, and I don't want the guy reading it and thinking he can get me next time."
2008-09-15 09:37:16
26.   Bluebleeder87
looks like Andre Ethier will return on Tues. Per Diamond Lung [ http://tinyurl.com/5kgw53 ]
2008-09-15 09:38:11
27.   cargill06
I'd like to see a DeWitt, Hu, DeJesus, Loney infield next year. That infield should be illeagal because it catch everything.
2008-09-15 09:41:02
28.   Ken Noe
I never wanted him to go, and I'd love to get Beltre back if the team could get him largely for cash in a Seattle salary dump instead of for too many prospects. But that's the unlikliest scenario of all.
2008-09-15 09:41:04
29.   old dodger fan
27 Why doesn't Ned just buy the Marlins infield?
2008-09-15 09:41:04
30.   eusmus
27 So pretty much the exact opposite of the Marlins infield... all defense, zero power.
2008-09-15 09:41:52
31.   ToyCannon
27
They would have to because it would be a below average offensive quartet.
2008-09-15 09:43:07
32.   cargill06
30 It would be a crazy good defensive infield, and would free up money to go for Manny and maybe Lowe/Sheets.
2008-09-15 09:48:39
33.   unlazy4sports
27 Derek Lowe would definitely want to come back for that defensive infield..
2008-09-15 09:48:43
34.   underdog
I'd love to have Beltre back as well. Seems he's doomed to have had his best offensive year(s) as a Dodger, but we probably won't see him in Dodger blue again. I would've rather given up Carlos Santana for him (not that it was an option at the time), but dunno if he's worth the haul they'll ask for. If he was a free agent this off-season I'd be interested but the Dodgers have too many things they have to figure out (Manny, Furcal, getting rid of Pierre or Jones, adding a pitcher perhaps) anyway. Still, I'd love to see him back and also hate the thought of him playing in San Francisco or something.
2008-09-15 09:51:02
35.   ToyCannon
32
D Lowe would sure love that infield. As much as I'm a fan of Ben Sheets I'd rather take a chance on the dependability of Lowe over the next 3 years then Sheets.
2008-09-15 09:55:29
36.   ToyCannon
34
If Beltre had been healthy I'd much rather have traded Santana and Meloan for him then Blake.

0
Great stuff on our bullpen. Without a doubt it is our strongest suit as we head into the playoffs provided Kuo is healthy. When BHSPORTSGUY said Wade was our rookie of the year, I sniggered but since he came back he has continued to prove how valuable he is to the team. I'll have to take back my snigger.

2008-09-15 10:01:10
37.   Jon Weisman
El Cholo is hosting an evening with Tommy Davis. For more information, click the ad on the right-hand sidebar.
2008-09-15 10:01:32
38.   goofus
Beltre has, what, 12 or 14 million coming next year? How about we send Pierre to Seattle along with a lot of money? They're happy, we're happy.
2008-09-15 10:01:54
39.   underdog
36 Yah, that's what I'm saying. Again, it wasn't really an option at the time.

Yeah, the bullpen has been so impressive. It's like the great unsung hero (as a unit) of the Dodgers that gets almost zero press outside of LA, but maybe that's just as well.

2008-09-15 10:06:15
40.   bhsportsguy
36 No need TC, Cory Wade said in today's LAT notebook was all he hoped for this year was a September call-up, instead he too had his first child, got married (yes in that order) and bought a house with his major league salary in Daniel Z's neighborhood.

Here's a link to a Pitt. Pirates notebook on how their GM still has hopes for Andy LaRoche but its curious on the things he says that Andy needs to improve over the off-season. One thing that stand outs for me, 8 errors in a little over a month.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08259/912234-63.stm

2008-09-15 10:07:44
41.   Tripon
Joe Crede and the White Sox are parting ways. The White Sox cleaned out Crede's locker due to the long time Crede is taking for his back rehab.
2008-09-15 10:07:59
42.   silverwidow
26 There's a chance Ethier will play today.
2008-09-15 10:10:06
43.   Tripon
"He gives us a quality at-bat, works the count, does the thing we're looking for our hitters to do. Yeah, the average isn't showing the results anybody wants. But the breakdown indicates he's had some bad luck, hit a lot of balls right at people and, yes, chased some fastballs up out of the zone. So, we do have work to do with him."

That sounds a lot like what Torre says about JP, justifying JP in the lineup earlier in the year.

2008-09-15 10:11:59
44.   Jon Weisman
40 - What stands out to me as well is this is the first I've heard that they forced him to learn a new approach on the fly:

Yesterday, LaRoche's three hits all went to right field, part of what he described as "finally relaxing" with the new approach Long is instilling. The coaching staff's primary focus has been addressing a timing issue between LaRoche's upper and lower body.

"We've been tinkering with just about everything, and I've been going up there all stiff trying to keep everything in place," LaRoche said. "Today, I just made up my mind to stop thinking. Just relax. Get comfortable. Go with the pitch you get."

2008-09-15 10:12:01
45.   MyTummyHurts
37

I'll definitely check it out. Greag cuisine from what I've been told.

2008-09-15 10:13:06
46.   bhsportsguy
45 Better margartitas.
2008-09-15 10:14:10
47.   regfairfield
43 He has a .170 BABIP with a 14.4% line drive percentage. He wasn't making solid contact before but lately he's been hitting line drives right at people.
2008-09-15 10:15:54
48.   old dodger fan
37 What a great opportunity. TD was one of my favorite Dodgers when I was a kid. What a year he had in '62.

I would love to hear him talk about the injury and what he had to do to come back from it. A lot of people thought he was done.

2008-09-15 10:16:03
49.   Dexter Fishmore
For those, like me, following Angel Berroa's quest for a positive VORP, note that he's now only 0.2 shy of Platonically ideal replacement-level offense for the season.
2008-09-15 10:29:49
50.   Ken Noe
Boras and Manny, Boras and Jones, Boras and Crede--Boras may be the key to our offseason if McCourt does want to keep Manny.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-15 10:37:10
51.   KG16
4 - better pitchers through out the division, who happen to play more games at Dodger Stadium than other teams? Or conversely, worse offense within the division (SF, SD, CO) that play more games at Dodger Stadium?

Also, seems like the Dodgers have had fewer home day games this year, and the ball seems to travel better in the day (both at Dodger Stadium and Angel Stadium) than it does at night.

Just spit balling here.

2008-09-15 10:41:55
52.   Harold M Johnson
If Blake's injury turns out to be serious, will Nomar be the everyday 3rd baseman down the stretch? Or will we see a lot of mix and match infields with DeWitt, Hu, and Nomar rotating around?

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080914&content_id=3473642&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

2008-09-15 10:41:58
53.   UVaDodger
50 I am no expert on Sports Law, but doesn't an agent owe absolute loyalty to each client? Can Boras sacrifice his other client's interests to help us get Manny a huge payday? Seems that if what helps Manny hurts Jones that he couldn't do much for us.
2008-09-15 10:45:32
54.   Jon Weisman
52 - From Dylan Hernandez:

Garciaparra is also hurting enough that Torre said he is unsure whether the veteran is physically capable of being the team's everyday shortstop again. Torre said that physical limitations, not performance, are the reason Garciaparra is not starting regularly.

Garciaparra said he remains hindered by the problems that affected him last month, when he started 14 of the Dodgers' 17 games on Aug. 12-29.

The strained calves that sent Garciaparra to the disabled list in April continue to bother him. So does the sprained knee that landed him on the disabled list in August.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/printedition/la-sp-dodgers15-2008sep15,0,274937.story

2008-09-15 10:45:33
55.   Tripon
52 Mix and matching. Nomar's hurt too. He's not an everyday player this year.
2008-09-15 10:45:54
56.   Ken Noe
53 I'm not thinking sacrifice so much as wondering how hard he might insist to McCourt that yes, Frank, you really want Crede as well as Manny.
2008-09-15 10:46:54
57.   old dodger fan
When I read about the state of the investment world (especially today) I wonder where McCourt (and other baseball owners) has his money.
2008-09-15 10:48:20
58.   Bob Timmermann
56
The Koufax-Drysdale holdout inspired the owners to put in a collective bargaining rule that eliminates "package deals."
2008-09-15 10:48:34
59.   Tripon
56 Boras dream would be a Dodgers team employing Manny, Jones, Crede, and Lowe at the same time. And then trading those younglings like Kemp and Ethier because he's not their agent and can't make money for them.
2008-09-15 10:49:37
60.   KG16
53 - sort of. Boras has a duty to act in the best interest of each of his clients. The trick is, determining what is in the best interest of each client. I also suspect that they are required to sign a conflict waiver - as an attorney will often require clients to do when there's a potential conflict of interest.
2008-09-15 10:55:51
61.   UVaDodger
60 Conflict waivers, of course. That makes sense.
2008-09-15 10:56:07
62.   MyTummyHurts
I watched Jerry Maguire this weekend.
2008-09-15 11:00:45
63.   Eric Stephen
40
had his first child, got married (yes in that order) and bought a house with his major league salary in Daniel Z's neighborhood

If you read the underlined part out of context, it can sound like you're saying Daniel earns quite a hefty salary from BYU, rather than that Wade bought a house in Utah. :)

2008-09-15 11:01:30
64.   Bumsrap
I am thinking that if Manny wants to play in LA more than Jones does, and if only one of them will be in LA next year, then Boras will have to help move Jones. Isn't Beltre with Boras as well?
2008-09-15 11:01:37
65.   ToyCannon
57
Does he have any investment capital that is not tied up in real estate or the Dodgers?
2008-09-15 11:02:16
66.   Bob Timmermann
Wait, Cory Wade fathered one of Daniel's daughters? And then Daniel bought him a house?
2008-09-15 11:04:11
67.   ToyCannon
If you had to pair friends would you rather have Furcal/Jones or Berroa/Manny in 2009?
2008-09-15 11:04:17
68.   Eric Stephen
I was internet free yesterday, but seeing news of Zambrano's no-hitter in Milwaukee reminded me of Kareem breaking Wilt's all-time scoring record (points, not the other, unbreakable one!) in Las Vegas.
2008-09-15 11:04:54
69.   Lexinthedena
With Blake out, maybe we will see Pee Wee get a start or two at 2B, with Do-It at 3rd.
2008-09-15 11:05:02
70.   Humma Kavula
59 Why is that Boras's dream? I would imagine that he cares most about getting the best deals he can for each of the players he represents. Why would his dream be to have them all with one team? And why the Dodgers?

Maybe you're right, but spell it out for me. I don't follow at all.

2008-09-15 11:05:41
71.   Eric Stephen
66
It was quite a dowry.
2008-09-15 11:06:25
72.   Gilberto Reyes
36 If Beltre was available, the Mariners would have wanted much more than Santana and Meloan. And I'm sure Seattle will be asking much more than that in the off-season.

In hindsight, the Dodgers should have signed Beltre to that same contract that Seattle did after his 2004 season. It hurt to see a home-grown talent like Adrian leave at such a young age, and the Dodgers have never managed to fill the void. But dealing with Boras can be such a nightmare.

2008-09-15 11:06:28
73.   Eric Stephen
69
I hope our Blake becomes a star just for the Nike "Just DeWitt" marketing campaign!
2008-09-15 11:06:54
74.   Xeifrank
Skyrocketing salaries helped make Beltre's contract palatable. Of course if the Seattle management had taken that into consideratin beforehand, then more power to them on what turned out to be a decent signing. I would think that Mariners fans would've expected a little more offense out of Beltre than what they got. His wonderful last season as a Dodger appears to be an outlier.
vr, Xei
2008-09-15 11:07:14
75.   Lexinthedena
67 good question!

I would take Mangel over Furdruw....

I like the all glove no hit infield of DeWitt, Hu, DeJesus, and Loney, with Ethier, Kemp, Manny in the OF....all the while Berroa backs up at 2nd and short, while providing Jack Haley good vibes.

2008-09-15 11:07:36
76.   CodyS
I like Beltre as a Dodger. He's Casey Blake at the plate, with better fielding. At 30, he should continue producing at this level for the next several years. So even apart from the fact that he used to play here and created good memories, he makes a lot of sense.

Now what to give up in trade for him is a different question.

Signing a free-agent young as the Mariners did, you get the flip-side of something we talked about before. We talked about signing older free agents to multi-term deals, knowing you only get great production for the first one or two years and just considering not the marginal value of the third year at the third year price, but the expected total contribution over three years for the three year price.
In Beltre's case, they may have overpaid the first year or two, but the market has had its normal inflation and now they can reasonably say that they are paying him fairly or even underpaying him.

2008-09-15 11:09:25
77.   ToyCannon
The problem with Corey is that he's having his career year long before he can earn any money from it. By the time he's arbitration eligible he will probably be fighting for a pitching spot and just get non-tendered. As a group middle relief pitchers must be the Taco Bell on the salary food chain.
2008-09-15 11:11:29
78.   Bluebleeder87
68

I didn't catch it till late last night also Eric... from the highlights, his fastball had a lot of great late movement in 'em.

2008-09-15 11:11:33
79.   Lexinthedena
Beltre is not worth Lambo, or McDonald IMO. If he had three more years remaining, then I would do it.
2008-09-15 11:11:44
80.   ToyCannon
75
Furdruw will be at Fudruckers signing burgers this coming off season.
2008-09-15 11:12:50
81.   underdog
76 Money + Pierre or Jones + a decent prospect = Beltre. Just taking a stab at it.
2008-09-15 11:15:05
82.   Eric Stephen
77
As a group middle relief pitchers must be the Taco Bell on the salary food chain

What position is the partner, the KFC if you will? I nominate backup catcher.

2008-09-15 11:15:05
83.   Bumsrap
If only Ted would have given Jones a one year $20,000,000 contract.
2008-09-15 11:17:11
84.   ToyCannon
74
In retrospect I'd rather have had Beltre over the last 4 years then Jeff Kent. It would be interesting to ponder what the team make up would be if Kent had never set foot in LA.
2008-09-15 11:17:55
85.   Bluebleeder87
from MLB.Com [ http://tinyurl.com/5guoqc ]

"I'm a little confused right now," Zambrano said. "I still can't believe it. It's a great feeling, and it's a feeling that you can't describe. To throw a no-hitter is good, man. This is one of the few things in baseball that you most enjoy."

you can FEEL his excitement

2008-09-15 11:18:15
86.   Disabled List
81 Ned Colletti works for the Dodgers, not the other way around.
2008-09-15 11:20:04
87.   blue22
81 - There's still the little matter of Beltre's no-trade clause with Los Angeles.
2008-09-15 11:21:52
88.   ToyCannon
82
KFC is not cheap, while Taco Bell is. I was not referring to the quality of the food.
2008-09-15 11:22:41
89.   Bob Timmermann
The Astros are still wearing gray pants.

I guess they just didn't bother to pack any for the trip as they are heading out on a real road trip.

2008-09-15 11:23:48
90.   Humma Kavula
84 I was surprised by this comment, and I'll admit to not being all that well-versed in how well Beltre has hit over the past four years, so I looked it up.

Beltre has had OPS+s of 93, 105, 112, and 109 to go with stellar defense.

Kent has had OPS+s of 133, 119, 121, and 89, to go with... well, let's call it poor-and-getting-worse defense.

I don't root for Kent other than as a member of the Dodgers -- I've never liked him as a player. But there's no doubting the man could hit. Beltre over Kent for 2005-2008? Maybe. It depends on how much you value Beltre's defense. I would think that even if you rate Beltre over Kent, it would be close.

2008-09-15 11:23:52
91.   Eric Stephen
RE: Zambrano, I like to think this is his second no-hitter. In 2003, I was in Arizona for a family golf outing, and we took in a D-Backs game. They happened to be playing the Cubs, and Mr. Zambrano had a no-hitter through 7.2 IP.

Shea Hillenbrand was awarded an infield single on a ground ball even though he was clearly out, from our stellar vantage point on the top deck! :) Zambrano retired the next 3 hitters, so in my mind I've witnessed a no-hitter in person!

Congratulations on #2, Big Z. You can use this memory to console yourself after the NLDS Game 1 shellacking.

2008-09-15 11:25:39
92.   Eric Stephen
88
But are there that many stand alone Taco Bells or KFCs anymore? It seems that they're always paired up together.
2008-09-15 11:25:56
93.   Eric Stephen
91
Forgot to link to the game:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/ARI/ARI200308220.shtml

2008-09-15 11:26:08
94.   Gilberto Reyes
79 The Mariners would want more than Lambo or McDonald for Beltre.

Even for only 1 year of service, you are talking about one of the top ten third baseman in all of baseball who plays gold glove defense, is only 30, and is not currently overpaid. A guy like that will not come cheap.

2008-09-15 11:26:15
95.   silverwidow
92 I thought Taco Bell was paired with Pizza Hut.
2008-09-15 11:27:07
96.   Lexinthedena
81 No way. There will be interest from SF, AZ, Minn....that's off the top. I'm sure there will be other teams interested in his servives with more too offer than garbage + money.

I think Pierre will be a Red next season.

2008-09-15 11:27:26
97.   ToyCannon
90
Production wise it would be close, but I think a clubhouse with Beltre over a clubhouse with Kent would have been better for this team over the last three years. For one thing I think Depo would still be here.
2008-09-15 11:28:20
98.   bhsportsguy
Reggie Abercromie has now struck out 21 times in 49 PA (1 BB) after striking out in the first inning. He is currently 13 for 25 in balls hit in play.
2008-09-15 11:29:45
99.   Louis in SF
76

I posted the other day on what it would take to get Beltre. If you traded for Beltre, you would have to be able to sign him for more than one year. However, his agent is Boras who usually takes his players to free agency, so I am doubtful it will happen for the Dodgers. Wonder if the M's would take Jones and a prospect for Beltre, we would have to pay some of the Jones contract?

Those who have raised the potential conflict of interest question Boras being the rep for both Manny and Jones definitely brings up conflict of interest. I would love to ask an agent this exact question, especially since Ramirez seems to be such a good fit for LA, and Jones doesn't have a place here.

2008-09-15 11:29:50
100.   Humma Kavula
97 That's a fair use of "intangibles," I think -- when comparing two players with close production between the lines, give extra points to the one with the better clubhouse rep.

Okay, I'm with ya -- Beltre over Kent for the past four years. To the Wayback Machine! :-)

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-15 11:30:41
101.   ToyCannon
I like Beltre but I wouldnt' trade for him. For one thing it would be very irritating to have traded Santana and Meloan for a 3rd baseman, and then upload more prospects to fill the void when Blake leaves.

This is what Scareduck and others are talking about when they decry the deadline deals Ned made. I understand how the deals have hurt our future prospects, but I'd still rather be in this pennant race and worry about future pennant races then stood pat and play for next year.

2008-09-15 11:32:17
102.   bhsportsguy
97 I don't think Adrian Beltre could save DePo's job unless he repeated his MVP season and he could have stopped two pitches from hitting Werth and Drew.
2008-09-15 11:32:34
103.   ToyCannon
98
Our old friend Reggie may be one of the worse offensive major league baseball players in this decade who keeps getting chances.
2008-09-15 11:33:09
104.   Gilberto Reyes
84 90
Beltre over Kent for 2005 to 2008? That is a tough call. I think Toy Cannon is factoring in Kent's clubhouse presence into the equation which makes things more difficult to access. Kent clearly does not mesh with the young players or Dominicans as well as Beltre does. But Kent's offense for the first three years was outstanding despite his age.
2008-09-15 11:35:16
105.   bhsportsguy
101 Are the Colorado Rockies still a team of the future?

BTW, the Giants are a sweep away from being a half game out of second.

2008-09-15 11:35:43
106.   Harold M Johnson
It would be great to have Beltre back, but the price from Seattle is way too high. Lots of teams are going to be interested in Beltre between the off-season and the deadline next year, and Seattle is in desperate need of prospects.
2008-09-15 11:36:08
107.   Humma Kavula
101 and others -- I also like the idea of the all-homegrown Loney-DeJesus-Hu-DeWitt infield. I do wonder if there's anybody in that group who will hit well enough to stick at 3B, but I might give that a shot.

However, I'm not getting my hopes up for that. I think there's very little chance that we'll actually get that infield next year. There will be at least one free agent starting infielder signing. That's a prediction, not an endorsement.

2008-09-15 11:38:36
108.   blue22
106 - Lots of teams that aren't on Beltre's no-trade list too. For Beltre to lift that, don't you think LA would need to kick-in a little something to make that happen? Boras isn't into giving freebies, especially for the Dodgers.
2008-09-15 11:39:01
109.   Gilberto Reyes
99 You could not give Andruw Jones away at his current salary for next year to any team. He came to spring training overweight and we all know what kind of year he had. Plus his health is now in question. Therefore, including him in a deal for Beltre would only increase the price of any Dodger prospect(s).
2008-09-15 11:39:44
110.   bhsportsguy
Another random observation, as much and as deservedly Billy Beane gets plaudits for his work in Oakland, I think the blueprint for a successful low-mid market team is the Minnesota Twins.

I wonder how much that will change when they move to a new ballpark.

2008-09-15 11:42:55
111.   regfairfield
From 2005-2008

Beltre: 78 VORP, +70 defense
Kent: 136.3 VORP, -48 defense

It's close, but I'd give a slight edge to Beltre in overall performance. Kent's been a lot cheaper though.

2008-09-15 11:43:34
112.   Gilberto Reyes
106 I completely agree. Beltre's price will be steep next year. Team's will definitely compete for his services and drive the price up. Offers like Lambo, McDonald, or Andruw Jones would be quickly dismissed. Seattle can take full advantage by trading to the highest bidder.
2008-09-15 11:47:07
113.   bhsportsguy
Listening to this "home" game between the Astros and Cubs, I cannot think of a worst situation for the Astros to be in, family and friends suffering through a natural disaster, having to leave early on Sunday morning to fly up to Milwaukee for two games to be played in less than 24 hours and then have to fly down to Florida to start a 6 game road trip on Tuesday.

The Cubs have been at home since Thursday night, they get an easy bus trip to and from Milwaukee, they'll be home in time for dinner tonight before Houston even leaves for Florida.

2008-09-15 11:49:55
114.   old dodger fan
I wonder if next year being the last year of his contract Jones will be content to coast again, collect his $18 million and ride into the sunset or if he will show up in shape and actually be a good player.
2008-09-15 11:55:05
115.   bhsportsguy
Not many players get traded after having two surgeries. Beltre's recovery time for the thumb surgery is estimated to take 4-5 months or right before ST.

The Mariners will not be in a strong bargaining position until ST and may have to wait until June to see what they can get for Beltre.

2008-09-15 12:00:52
116.   blue22
115 - Their only other tradeable commodity, Bedard, is in a similar situation. I wouldn't be shocked to see them make one last run with the current group of veterans, and then dismantle at the break (once Beltre and Bedard have hopefully re-established their value).

If they can get some decent offense out of 1B, and get some level of performance from Washburn and Silva, they might not be terrible.

2008-09-15 12:01:59
117.   ToyCannon
For all the grief Jeter gets about being overrated, he's had 4 of the top 10 OBP numbers for SS from 2005-2008.
http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/hwcd
2008-09-15 12:05:02
118.   Bob Timmermann
Ned Yost is out of a job.

http://griddle.baseballtoaster.com/archives/1129582.html

2008-09-15 12:05:25
119.   Gilberto Reyes
114 Only Andruw knows the answer to that question. It's entirely up to him. Will this season's performance motivate him?
2008-09-15 12:06:01
120.   Bob Timmermann
117
I believe the crux of Jeter's "over-ratedness" is his defense.

And the degree of dreaminess of his eyes.

2008-09-15 12:08:02
121.   D4P
I wonder if next year being the last year of his contract Jones will be content to coast again, collect his $18 million and ride into the sunset or if he will show up in shape and actually be a good player

One thing's for sure: Bob won't care either way.

2008-09-15 12:08:10
122.   Eric Stephen
117
I would argue that even his harshest critics recognize his offensive excellence.
2008-09-15 12:08:32
123.   cargill06
120 But he's the clutchest clutch to ever clutch. Unlike the evil one to his right.

(much sarcasim in this comment)

2008-09-15 12:08:54
124.   Gilberto Reyes
115 Good point, but I don't think either surgery is considered serious enough to make his health an issue. He has putting off the thumb surgery for quite some time so I would think that successful surgery would actually increase his value.
2008-09-15 12:10:22
125.   regfairfield
120 I think it's that he's not the greatest player of all time.
2008-09-15 12:11:08
126.   Bob Timmermann
121
You have to say that in a Tommy Lee Jones voice.
2008-09-15 12:12:12
127.   D4P
126
Wait: was I Gerard or Kimble...?
2008-09-15 12:12:24
128.   Tripon
120 I thought it was because Jeter basically forced the best shortstop our time to 3rd base.
2008-09-15 12:13:12
129.   ToyCannon
I think it it also a reflection of just how weak the OBP is for shortstops these days. When the 11th best OBP for the last 4 years is only in the 360 range we are not looking at an elite group.
2008-09-15 12:13:14
130.   bhsportsguy
118 Well, at least Sveum gets to hand the ball to Sabathia and Sheets in his first two games.
2008-09-15 12:15:08
131.   ToyCannon
128
Arod forced himself to 3rd base. He made sure he was a Yankee, if playing SS meant something to him instead of never winning a championshsip then he'd have chosen a different team.
2008-09-15 12:15:18
132.   Bob Timmermann
127
I'm Gerard.

I don't care that D4P didn't kill his wife.

2008-09-15 12:16:16
133.   Eric Stephen
130
...with the hope that he gets to hand them the ball in his 13th & 14th games as well.
2008-09-15 12:16:18
134.   Bob Timmermann
130
But in the middle of a tough road trip. The Cubs are up next for the Brewers.
2008-09-15 12:16:35
135.   cargill06
If the Phillies win the wild card would the 1st round match-ups look like this?

Phillies @ Cubs
Dodgers @ Mets

2008-09-15 12:17:56
136.   Eric Stephen
135
Yes, assuming the Cubs have the best NL record.
2008-09-15 12:18:10
137.   D4P
I don't care that D4P didn't kill his wife

Someday, somewhere, you'll have a change of heart and give me one of those soothing (disposable?) implements for sore previously-handcuffed wrists.

2008-09-15 12:18:58
138.   Eric Stephen
136
Actually, the best record won't matter since the Phillies and Mets are in the same division. My bad.
2008-09-15 12:19:40
139.   blue22
135 - Yep, it's:

Dodgers/Cubs if the Brewers/Astros get the WC
Dodgers/Mets if the Phils get it.
Dodgers/Phils if the Mets fall to the WC.

2008-09-15 12:21:22
140.   cargill06
How would you rank what teams you'd rather play round 1?

Here's my list;
1. Astros
2. Mets
3. Brewers
4. Phils
5. Cubs

2008-09-15 12:22:52
141.   blue22
140 - A five-way tie for "anyone".
2008-09-15 12:23:00
142.   cargill06
140 Brewers and Astros are virtually impossible but just threw it up there.
2008-09-15 12:23:43
143.   underdog
140

1. Brewers
2. Mets
2. Astros (tie)
4. Phillies
5. Cubs (the pitching in a Dodgers-Cubs series could be phenomenal, however).

2008-09-15 12:23:44
144.   Kevin Lewis
Would we be better off playing the Cubs in a best of 5 instead of 7?
2008-09-15 12:25:46
145.   bhsportsguy
The Cubs are only paying Jim Edmonds a pro-rated amount of the MLB minimum, since the Padres and Cards are paying millions to him.

Edmonds just hit his 18th home run of the year, 17 have been hit as a Cub. Going into today, he had a .933 OPS as a Cub.

2008-09-15 12:27:09
146.   LAT
I need the help of my friends at DT. A co-worker and I were discussing the prospects of Beltre retuning to the NL. I opined that his numbers should go up because pitching in the NL is generally weaker than the AL. I held up Manny as Exhibit "A" to which he responded small sample size and now Manny is trying cause he is in a contract year. My friend said Beltre's numbers will go down because the AL typically scores more runs because of the DH and because its a more offensively oriented league. Who is right?
2008-09-15 12:27:28
147.   Bob Timmermann
What's more surprising?
1) Dodgers fans attributing a great deal of success on the season to Cory Wade
2) Astros fans blaming their lack of offense on an injury to Ty Wigginton
2008-09-15 12:27:29
148.   blue22
143 - 1. Brewers

I mean, I'm a "bring 'em on" type, but Milwaukee as your #1 matchup? Is it because they're slumping? CC and Sheets in a short series, with a pretty good lineup, could be a problem.

2008-09-15 12:27:37
149.   Tripon
David Cone, who threw 88 pitches to catcher Girardi in fashioning a perfect game with the Yankees in July 1999, is an analyst for the YES Network. Cone said Girardi was excellent at maneuvering his relievers, an area in which Torre drew criticism. Torre overused some pitchers and did not trust others. Girardi squeezed contributions out of Kyle Farnsworth and production from José Veras, Edwar Ramírez and Brian Bruney.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/sports/baseball/15girardi.html?_r=1&ref=baseball&oref=slogin

Thought this was a bit interesting since Torre basically is using the Dodgers bullpen better than I thought coming into the season. Of course it helps that the Dodgers actually has a quality pen.

2008-09-15 12:27:50
150.   Gilberto Reyes
1. Cubs (They have a curse!)
2. Astros
3. Brewers
4. Phils
5. Mets
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-09-15 12:27:53
151.   Alex41592
This is getting ridiculous:

For the second straight day the Cubs/Astros game is interesting.

2008-09-15 12:28:25
152.   Bob Timmermann
In 1999, the Yankees finished the season in a horrible slump.

It didn't make much of a difference once the playoffs started.

2008-09-15 12:29:34
153.   Tripon
146 NL west has more quality pitchers than the AL west.
2008-09-15 12:30:43
154.   cargill06
150 Mets 5?

I'd be happy being within 3 runs of the Mets with 1 out remaining and no one on base. That's probably what a WE of 30%?

2008-09-15 12:32:49
155.   underdog
There's something about having (old sort of friend) Reggie Abercrombie batting lead off for you that doesn't bode well for the offense, anyway.

I do feel the Astros have been a bit screwed by the whole hurricane/relocation thing, but they have to wake up regardless.

2008-09-15 12:33:14
156.   Gilberto Reyes
146 It depends more on the home park than the league you are in. Safeco is not a good park for right-handed hitters. So you would expect his numbers to increase in any NL park except for San Diego.
2008-09-15 12:33:18
157.   regfairfield
146 The AL suppresses numbers and Safeco is a very pitcher friendly park. His numbers would go way up in the NL.
2008-09-15 12:34:13
158.   delias man
102 He would have stopped them. Batting order would have been different, along with all other intangibles.
2008-09-15 12:34:37
159.   Bob Timmermann
155
The Astros announcers are a bit peeved that Tampa Bay didn't offer their stadium up for the series.

The Rays are hosting the Red Sox for three games starting today so they couldn't play there today and the Rays certainly weren't going to give up a rare sellout to play a doubleheader.

2008-09-15 12:36:40
160.   Gilberto Reyes
154 I can't put a finger on why, but I still have bad memories of that 2006 series against the Mets. I might feel better if they kept Beimel in his hotel room in New York this time.
2008-09-15 12:38:24
161.   Humma Kavula
146 TEAMS score more runs in the AL. Does the average player in the AL have better run production than an average NL player?
2008-09-15 12:39:26
162.   Humma Kavula
160 I knew it was time to leave my job when I was sitting in my office listening to two runners get thrown out at home on the same play of a playoff game.
2008-09-15 12:39:42
163.   bhsportsguy
160 It would not surprise me if the Dodgers had 3 lefties in the pen if they make the playoffs, Beimel, Kuo and Elbert. I don't think they would use Kershaw in those situations.
2008-09-15 12:39:43
164.   Tripon
Save DePo's job or draft Clayton Kershaw. Choices choices.
2008-09-15 12:39:43
165.   Tripon
Save DePo's job or draft Clayton Kershaw. Choices choices.
2008-09-15 12:40:17
166.   Tripon
163 If Kershaw's in the pen, it allows Torre to use Kuo or Kershaw in long relief.
2008-09-15 12:42:07
167.   bhsportsguy
166 Unless Kershaw is going to the start, he (and/or Maddux) will not be on the playoff roster.

Peter Gammons NL Rookie of the Year just hit the second 2-run homer of the inning.

2008-09-15 12:43:49
168.   Bob Timmermann
I have no qualms about Soto getting the ROY. MVP is another matter.
2008-09-15 12:44:34
169.   Alex41592
Cubs are up 6-0. If the Cubs hold on they will have a chance to clinch the N.L central if they were to sweep Milwaukee at Wrigley in their three game series.
2008-09-15 12:45:34
170.   Gilberto Reyes
162 Unfortunately, I will never forget that play. Kind of set the tone for the entire series.

163 I agree.

166 I don't trust Kershaw in the pen in the playoffs until he gets more consistant with his control.

2008-09-15 12:46:04
171.   CanuckDodger
In moving from the AL to the NL, Casey Blake's OPS+ has gone down from 116 to 102. Manny has obviously improved switching leagues, but everybody knows he was dogging it in Boston. I think it is impossible to predict how any individual hitter is going to react to switching leagues.
2008-09-15 12:46:20
172.   Tripon
Soto should get the RoY, he's probably having the best year for rookies. That said, he's still not Pujols.
2008-09-15 12:47:12
173.   scareduck
Don't know if this was brought up previously, but the Brewers inexplicably fired Ned Yost.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=3589399

2008-09-15 12:47:28
174.   bhsportsguy
168 Oh, yeah sorry. You will be happy to know that any loss suffered by the UCLA football team will be at the feet of KD for at least 3 seasons.

The Astros had been shut out only once (Johan Santana) in their last 44 games (33-11) prior to last night's no-hitter by Zambrano.

2008-09-15 12:48:10
175.   Tripon
I keep on getting Bob Melvin and Ned Yost mixed up for some reason. Probably because both managed Arizona.
2008-09-15 12:49:50
176.   scareduck
171 - Blake is a second-half slumper, n'est pas?
2008-09-15 12:51:06
177.   blue22
175 - Mmm...nope, Yost never managed AZ.

Maybe you have a case of the Melvins:

Yost's ex-boss was Doug Melvin. AZ's current manager is Bob Melvin.

2008-09-15 12:52:13
178.   Bluebleeder87
Casey Blake out for at least the Pirate series says Dodgers Dot Com.
2008-09-15 12:52:17
179.   regfairfield
171 Nate Silver on moving to the AL.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=693

2008-09-15 12:52:57
180.   Bob Timmermann
173
Picture Jeff Goldblum running down a hallway at the White House, he opens the door to a darkened room and yells breathlessly, "They fired Ned Yost!"

A somewhat cynical voice replies, "We know. Sit down."

2008-09-15 12:53:09
181.   Alex41592
178 - Link?
2008-09-15 12:54:12
182.   underdog
173 That one's been Griddled and served with a side of bacon.
2008-09-15 12:54:38
183.   Alex41592
Jim Edmonds keeps it interesting with a great catch in center.
2008-09-15 12:54:53
184.   bhsportsguy
171 All I know is that he had a .908 OPS for the first half and even better numbers in July.

Was he difficult off the field, by all reports yes, but I think for the Red Sox to suddenly bring up Manny's attitude for dealing him after all of those years of letting it go puts the blame equally on their shoulders.

2008-09-15 12:56:14
185.   Bob Timmermann
The headline on Dodgers.com reads "Back Tightness COULD Keep Blake out of Pirates series"

Emhpasis mine.

2008-09-15 12:56:18
186.   CanuckDodger
176 -- Is Casey Kotchman a second-half slumper? This year, 103 OPS+ with Angels, 62 OPS+ with Braves. Teixeira, 139 OPS+ with Braves, 174 OPS+ with Angels.
2008-09-15 12:56:29
187.   Alex41592
We enter the 7th in Milwaukee. Crazy times people.
2008-09-15 12:57:33
188.   Jacob Burch
180 I'm going to assume I'm ok with Rule 5 if I say I'd live in a world where Bob was a cynical voice in the White House.

I imagine we'd all get a day off every time the CI alarm was sounded.

2008-09-15 12:57:49
189.   underdog
185 Yeah, I was just gonna say that. Sounds like he'll be out tonight and then who knows. He thinks he'll return soon, but we'll see. But he hasn't been declared out for the Pirates series.

I hope Andy LaRoche goes 0 for the series and then goes on to have a fine career.

2008-09-15 12:58:21
190.   Humma Kavula
Thanks to all for the updates on the interesting game. Keep 'em coming.
2008-09-15 13:00:39
191.   old dodger fan
Lilly-69 pitches in 6 innings
2008-09-15 13:01:18
192.   MollyKnight
Ned Yost is not responsible for the chaos on Wall Street.
2008-09-15 13:01:27
193.   blue22
Mark Saccomanno pinch-hitting for the Astros. I wonder if his brother Bob can still get a good deal on those Russian hats in Central Park...
2008-09-15 13:01:51
194.   Jon Weisman
189 - The trickle of Blake back news seems to echo how the trickle of Furcal back news began. But maybe it's just an echo.
2008-09-15 13:02:17
195.   Bluebleeder87
you can check for your self on Dodgers Dot Com, I tride linking it but Dodgers Dot Com didn't let me for some reason.
2008-09-15 13:02:26
196.   Tripon
Ned Yost will be the next Seattle Manager.

U.S.S. Mariner will cry tears of frustrations.

2008-09-15 13:03:52
197.   Tripon
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080914&content_id=3473642&vkey=news_la&fext=.jsp&c_id=la

Blake Article.

2008-09-15 13:04:20
198.   Ken Noe
The Ned Yost timing is just...weird. A different manager will help over the next two weeks?
2008-09-15 13:05:04
199.   Bob Timmermann
180
A clip to my reference in case you haven't seen the movie. The reference comes in the first 45 seconds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbdXt2K27NU&feature=related

The clip is Mostly SFW.

2008-09-15 13:05:19
200.   scareduck
186 - baseball-reference.com is flaky right now or I would answer that question better. If your point is that there's a transition across leagues, that's reasonable, but I would also add that Blake's second-half slides were a well-known feature of his performance. Kotchman has scarcely logged enough innings in the second half of any full season to know how he'll perform.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-09-15 13:05:33
201.   Jon Weisman
E-5!
2008-09-15 13:05:45
202.   Alex41592
197 - So, there is no new news. Ok.

Error called in Milwaukee. Still interesting.

2008-09-15 13:06:14
203.   Disabled List
180 I love that reference. One of my favorite movies.
2008-09-15 13:06:34
204.   scareduck
196 - strongly recommend you read this article about the M's ownership:

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/2008/9/11/612112/m-s-ownership-management-s

It sounds like they're going to sell soon. Whoever gets the manager's job will be likely gone anyway.

2008-09-15 13:06:47
205.   underdog
192 Gary Bennett is, though, right?
2008-09-15 13:08:25
206.   CanuckDodger
179 -- That article you recommend wasn't very good. It is "easier to stand out" in the NL if you are a slugger because there just isn't as much emphasis on slugging in this league. And Cabrera declining this year was predictable not because of Silver's equations but because Cabrera has become fat slug, which you will recall is why I said in the off-season that I did not want him anywhere near the Dodgers for what we would have to give up to get him.
2008-09-15 13:08:27
207.   Alex41592
Now, the no-hitter is gone after 6+ innings.
2008-09-15 13:08:44
208.   Bob Timmermann
The descendants of Ernie Koob and Bob Groom open up a bottle of champagne.

And I've actually met a descendant of Bob Groom! She reads the Griddle!

2008-09-15 13:08:52
209.   Jacob Burch
So what's the record for innings without recording a hit (on either side of the ball), now that I can bring that up?
2008-09-15 13:08:56
210.   Gilberto Reyes
198 Sounds like an act of desperation. Or there could be some team chemistry issue that we don't know about.
2008-09-15 13:09:40
211.   bhsportsguy
Why can't you just get it through your head
It's over, it's over now
Yes, you heard me clearly now I said
It's over, it's over now
2008-09-15 13:09:52
212.   Jacob Burch
209 ....Or have I missed a Timmerman factoid in my haste?
2008-09-15 13:10:21
213.   Tripon
204 Hah, Nintendo is selling its ownership stock? Its too bad Nintendo didn't fully exploit the M's and did promotions like free Mario or Link Plushies.
2008-09-15 13:11:18
214.   Alex41592
Per ITD: Andre on his way. Casey out.

Martin, C

Pierre, CF

Manny, LF

Loney, 1B

Nomar, 3B

Kemp, RF

DeWitt, 2B

Berroa, SS

Kuroda, P

2008-09-15 13:12:26
215.   Tripon
FREE BLAKE DEWITT!

Also, could we see a Andre PH today?

2008-09-15 13:13:09
216.   bhsportsguy
215 Umm, he's playing 2B.
2008-09-15 13:13:34
217.   underdog
Be nice to have Ethier back tomorrow, and have to worry a bit about Nomar's D at 3rd. "If you should survive, thankyou, comeagain" (said in Apu voice.)
2008-09-15 13:13:41
218.   regfairfield
206 The point is that there's a demonstrated decrease shown when moving to the AL, enough that Silver adjusts a players projection fairly significantly downward by just by switching leagues.
2008-09-15 13:14:37
219.   Bob Timmermann
212
I've looked, but those records are not listed in the Sporting News Record Book.
2008-09-15 13:14:50
220.   Gilberto Reyes
Did we all adhere to rule #9 because Ted Lilly is an ex-Dodger?

What if the Dodgers are getting no-hit? Can we then break rule #9?

2008-09-15 13:16:00
221.   Jon Weisman
220 - No.
2008-09-15 13:16:24
222.   MrCourt123
Wow, Ned Yost was just fired. That should light a fire under the Brewers!
2008-09-15 13:16:35
223.   Alex41592
220 - No. And no. I believe rule #9 is for every baseball game in the world.
2008-09-15 13:17:54
224.   Alex41592
Bob should just loop the same post every 5 minutes.

222 - 118

2008-09-15 13:20:06
225.   MrCourt123
Sorry, didn't read every one of the first couple hundred posts. I'm a few minutes behind on that one. But still, wow, I didn't see that one coming.
2008-09-15 13:21:53
226.   Gilberto Reyes
220 What if Tim Lincecum is no-hitting the Dodgers at the end of this month in a 1-0 game that we must win to make the playoffs?
2008-09-15 13:22:27
227.   Bluebleeder87
Sorry you guys, I just re-read it & it says "backtightness COULD keep Blake out vs. Pirates.

disculpas porfavor.

2008-09-15 13:22:51
228.   Jon Weisman
226 - No, but hopefully it won't come to that.
2008-09-15 13:23:11
229.   trainwreck
206
Actually, Miguel is in better shape this year than he has been since his rookie season.
2008-09-15 13:24:26
230.   LU Dodger
228

I think 220 has a point. I think it's time to amend the DT constitution for Rule 9

2008-09-15 13:24:45
231.   Tripon
Is Miggy playing first base this year due to injuries or he just can't play 3rd anymore? I can't believe that anybody would trade away what the Tigers did for Cabera and Willis if they thought that Cabera was going to play 1st base.
2008-09-15 13:25:43
232.   ToyCannon
218
Is that strictly park effects?
2008-09-15 13:26:44
233.   Humma Kavula
230 Jon has been quite clear on Rule 9. This is his house and we are his guests. He thanks you for not, and you don't.
2008-09-15 13:27:41
234.   Tripon
What's more likely, Kuroda throwing a perfect game on the road, or DeWitt hitting 4 homers in a game?
2008-09-15 13:28:49
235.   LU Dodger
233

Whoa whoa whoa chotchy. I was jk a little bit.
Breathe in.....and then out......

2008-09-15 13:29:59
236.   Bob Timmermann
If you want to break Rule 9, you can go visit the Griddle or Bronx Banter or the Fairpole.
2008-09-15 13:30:04
237.   LU Dodger
233

and I'm sure Mr. Weisman doesn't need bodyguards here.

2008-09-15 13:30:31
238.   LU Dodger
236

Holy crap!

2008-09-15 13:30:48
239.   Bob Timmermann
203
I like "The Right Stuff" so much that I believe I've seen it close to 30 times. And it's over 3 hours long.

When I saw it in a theater, it had an intermission.

2008-09-15 13:30:55
240.   CanuckDodger
218 -- In his last year in the NL, Vlad Guerrero had an OPS+ of 156. In his first year in the AL, his OPS+ was 157. Those were his age 27 and his age 28 years, so one should expect the same performance barring physical issues in one year that were not a factor in the other. The data at Nate Silver's disposal that covers ALL players switching leagues is likely to be polluted by age and physical issues that can't be evened out unless his methodology is a lot more sophisticated than I imagine it is. For example, I am sure Silver's numbers on Beltre's last NL year and his first AL year don't account for what I think everybody should admit: one year Beltre was on steroids, the other year he wasn't.
2008-09-15 13:33:54
241.   Tripon
Is it too early to start the Tim Tebow sweepstakes? It seems the Detroit Lions want a head start.
2008-09-15 13:34:21
242.   Alex41592
Let it be known that Rule 9 was broken on the Griddle which does not have a Rule 9 and shortly thereafter Lilly gave up a hit.
2008-09-15 13:34:48
243.   ToyCannon
KC begs to differ.
2008-09-15 13:35:41
244.   Eric Stephen
241
Tim Tebow = Tommie Frazier.
2008-09-15 13:35:41
245.   Bob Timmermann
242
But Rule 9 is a Dodger Thoughts rule, it is not a Griddle rule. Hence there is no Rule 9 to break.

The Griddle's rules of conduct have been established by Potter Stewart.

2008-09-15 13:37:06
246.   ToyCannon
242
Due more to the fact that Lilly wouldn't know a complete game if it hit him in the face.
2008-09-15 13:37:54
247.   Alex41592
245 - Of course. Just pointing it out.
2008-09-15 13:38:44
248.   Jon Weisman
237 - Nonetheless, he appreciates them in his entourage :)
2008-09-15 13:39:14
249.   Tripon
Is it true that the L.A. Central library holds the greatest treasures known to man?
2008-09-15 13:40:35
250.   LU Dodger
248

....that's nice

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-09-15 13:41:10
251.   Bob Timmermann
249
That could explain why Nicolas Cage keeps sneaking in after hours.
2008-09-15 13:44:54
252.   bhsportsguy
251 I believe it takes either a notarized note from Head Librarian or Suffering Bruin's presence to get someone to find Mr. Timmermann at the Library.
2008-09-15 13:45:32
253.   bhsportsguy
252 Or a Rudy Law/Ken Landreaux autographed baseball.
2008-09-15 13:47:14
254.   underdog
You know why tomorrow is a good day? Because "Ladies and Gentlemen, the Fabulous Stains" is coming to DVD at last. 1982 music biz satire starring a young Diane Lane. Great soundtrack, too. Oh yeah.
2008-09-15 13:48:33
255.   Marty
I'll bet Nicholas Cage is the one stealing your PCs.
2008-09-15 13:48:49
256.   Bob Timmermann
Someone from the Dodgers will be reading a story to kids Tuesday morning. I assume it will be a FORMER Dodger unless Andruw Jones or Gary Bennett is going to do it.

I don't know if the event is open to the public or if they are just inviting a select group of appreciative kids. I assume the latter because it's before the library opens.

I won't be there at the time, but I will find out how the storytelling skills of Lou Johnson, Don Newcombe, or Ken Landreaux are.

2008-09-15 13:49:58
257.   Lexinthedena
251 That's show business...
2008-09-15 13:50:31
258.   Bob Timmermann
255
I got a call Friday from somebody wanting to know which computers at the library would let him copy his 5 1/4" floppy disks.

He said he had several hundred that needed copying.

The answer is: there are no computers at the library that can handle those disks.

2008-09-15 13:51:19
259.   ToyCannon
256
Matt Luke - didn't sound like he was doing anything these days.
2008-09-15 13:51:44
260.   Bob Timmermann
From the LA Times, there is a link to a story about how the people in Chatsworth reacted to the Metrolink crash.

http://www.chatsworthcouncil.org/messages.php?ID=22

2008-09-15 13:52:06
261.   Lexinthedena
256 my money is on Castillo
2008-09-15 13:52:27
262.   UVaDodger
258 It is 2008, right? Weren't those outdated and obsolete 10 years ago?
2008-09-15 13:54:31
263.   Bob Timmermann
262
That's what I thought. We do have 3 1/2" drives in our computers, but most patrons use flash drives.
2008-09-15 13:56:48
264.   Bob Timmermann
Humorous typo from Brian Dohn of the Daily News:

"We can't love in a world where we throw the ball 45 times a game," Neuheisel said.

That should be in a movie trailer.

2008-09-15 13:58:35
266.   underdog
264 Too bad Don LaFontaine passed away, alas.
2008-09-15 13:58:36
267.   Bob Timmermann
265
I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
2008-09-15 14:00:39
268.   Bob Timmermann
The Cubs magic number is 8.
2008-09-15 14:01:07
269.   Bob Timmermann
And by 8, I mean 6.
2008-09-15 14:01:51
270.   bhsportsguy
265 Do we now have the 6 words or euphemisms that cannot be typed on DT?
2008-09-15 14:03:00
271.   underdog
270 Too bad George Carlin passed away, alas.
2008-09-15 14:03:15
272.   Jon Weisman
265, edited -

265. ToyCannon
260
Wow do I feel (bad) for just driving home thinking the police would never let simple civilians help.

2008-09-15 14:04:29
273.   Gilberto Reyes
I like Diamond's line today for tonight's game.

"Manny Ramirez vs. Andy LaRoche"

What a mismatch!

2008-09-15 14:05:11
274.   underdog
273 Yeah I was wondering about that, too -- which one of them is pitching?
2008-09-15 14:09:21
275.   ToyCannon
272
Sorry about that.
2008-09-15 14:09:39
276.   LU Dodger
UVA Dodger,

Are you a current student? I'm close by in Lynchburg attending Liberty University

2008-09-15 14:10:34
277.   Jon Weisman
275 - S'okay.
2008-09-15 14:10:55
278.   Gilberto Reyes
274 Yesterday we had Micah Owings vs Adam Dunn and we saw who won that battle!

By the way, did the Padres get their players to be named later yet for Greg Maddux? If not, when is the deadline for their decision?

2008-09-15 14:12:21
279.   Disabled List
I was brokenhearted to hear about the train wreck in Chatsworth. The human toll is tragic almost beyond belief, and I feel like I have a connection to it because of all the time I spent climbing around Stoney Point when I was younger. Secondarily, I feel very strongly in favor of rail transportation in Southern California, and I fear what kind of effect this will have in the minds of commuters.

I heard the wreck was possibly caused because the engineer was text messaging some kids, and missed a stop signal. Wow.

2008-09-15 14:13:06
280.   D4P
And by 8, I mean 6

I remember learning base 5, but base 3/4...?

2008-09-15 14:14:16
281.   UVaDodger
276 Second year law student here at 'Hoo U. Too far away from the Dodgers.... but relatively close to Lynchburg.
2008-09-15 14:15:41
282.   Tripon
278 Oct. 15th. People are guessing Adkins as one of the two.

The Funny thing is that the Padres wanted Elbert and McDonald. Talk about chutzpah.

2008-09-15 14:15:53
283.   Disabled List
279 sounds much more self-absorbed than I meant it to. To be clear, I don't have any connection to the wreck, and my heartbreak is insignificant compared to those who lost loved ones. It was just jarring to see that kind of tragedy occur at a place I had happy memories of.
2008-09-15 14:19:43
284.   UVaDodger
282 I'm pretty sure there would be a riot here if the Padres got Elbert or McDonald for a (relatively) washed-up Maddux.
2008-09-15 14:20:31
285.   Gilberto Reyes
282 Thanks. I guess it never hurts to ask for the moon.
2008-09-15 14:22:17
286.   trainwreck
Sigh. Apparently Lane will be fired and Rob Ryan will be named head coach.
2008-09-15 14:23:50
287.   Eric Stephen
286
Deck chairs. Titanic. You do the math.
2008-09-15 14:24:44
288.   Jon Weisman
How is Stony Point for climbing these days? I used to go there in my high school years as well. I seem to recall graffiti becoming an issue.

I haven't seen the text message report except on KCBS. Was it verified?

2008-09-15 14:25:26
289.   underdog
283 No, that was well said, and I've had the same worries. I don't think that will happen. Logically it shouldn't, given the dangers, hassles and expenses of driving are pretty clear to everyone these days. Rail has to be where it's at. They just need to really improve their safety and inspection thing, reassure everyone.
2008-09-15 14:27:16
290.   underdog
286 The story in the Chron this morning was kind of interesting, about how Ryan ingratiated himself with Davis by "taking the fall" in his long rant the other day. Now Ryan will just become the next fall guy, alas. I don't know why any sane coach outside the organization would want to take that job until Al removes himself from power or chokes on his bran flakes.
2008-09-15 14:30:16
291.   Tripon
286 Figures. The S.F. Chronicle said that Ryan only talked to the Media because Davis ordered him to. Then the same source praised Ryan for it and called Kiffin a fink, apprently not realizing how stupid and hypocritical this whole situation is. Who's going to coach the Raiders offense, Al Davis himself?
2008-09-15 14:33:00
292.   Disabled List
I haven't been to Stoney Point in years. The last time I was there was probably in the mid-90s, when I was still at CSUN. I don't remember it being too bad, urban ills-wise.
2008-09-15 14:38:17
293.   ToyCannon
288
Graffiti has been part of part of Stoney Point for so long I figured the rocks came that way.
2008-09-15 14:39:49
294.   Gen3Blue
If the FO had given up Elbert in the Maddox deal there is no way they would have trotted him out a few times so everyone could see the potential in that fastball and offspeed pitch. On the other hand, that makes me nervous about MacDonald. Why haven't they used him. No, only an idiot would give him away an almost finished product.
2008-09-15 14:40:21
295.   ToyCannon
288
If it is true I'd hate to be the person on the receiving end of his last text message knowing the message got in the way of him doing his job.
2008-09-15 14:40:54
296.   John Hale
213
Re Nintendo ownership tie in to M's

Safeco has nintendo ds wireless capability for free. get almost perfect video in your hands as well as all of the ordering food and pitch Fx stuff.

Do any other teams have this kind of system? I assumed Nintendo was doing it in other parks but I have been to Dodger, Shea and the Bronx this year with it obviously in none of these old parks.

2008-09-15 14:41:07
297.   underdog
I can't imagine the Dodgers giving away their two-time Minor League Pitcher of the Year winner for a Maddux rental, but sometimes Colletti does the unimaginable.
2008-09-15 14:42:03
298.   Tripon
297 Dodgers won't. Its already been announced that the prospects the Dodgers traded weren't on the 40 man roster.
2008-09-15 14:42:21
299.   ToyCannon
I have no problem trading McDonald but if we traded him for the likes of Maddux I'd be a bit peeved unless Maddux wins a couple of post-season games.
2008-09-15 14:43:53
300.   ToyCannon
It would not have been Lambo, they would not have promoted him if he was the guy.

I remember saying it was Adkins/Garate as a wild butt guess.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-09-15 14:50:57
301.   Tripon
Adkins would be a good guess. Kyle Russell as the other one?
2008-09-15 14:52:33
302.   bhsportsguy
301 Kyle Russell and the rest of the 2008 signees cannot be traded until after one year of being in professional baseball.
2008-09-15 14:56:00
303.   cargill06
Who is paying the remainder of Maddux's salary?
2008-09-15 14:57:59
304.   Zak
288 I found these on the Daily News. I'm surprised they released names.

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_10466129

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_10466142

2008-09-15 14:58:44
305.   Tripon
303 Padres are paying two million on Maddux's salary. Dodgers are paying one million. The Padres can also just pick one player from the approved list of Dodgers prospects (There's supposedly 5 guys on the list.) And receive money a million back from the Dodgers.

So basically a prospect is approximately worth a million dollars to the Padres and Dodgers.

2008-09-15 15:01:13
306.   bhsportsguy
300 Paul Koss seems to be a reliever that would fit Petco.
2008-09-15 15:01:26
307.   cargill06
So it appears that the Padre's were just looking to save a few bucks by getting rid of Maddux. I would doubt it is any player the Dodgers would ever imagine helping the big league club. It looks like as long as SD saves $1,000,000 they're happy and don't care who they get.
2008-09-15 15:03:58
308.   Gen3Blue
If Adkins is the one who had potential for high 90's velocity and some coach said had an arm as good or better than Kershaw, I would hate to see him go. But as someone mentioned earlier, we don't have a bunch of prospects left to trade.
2008-09-15 15:05:32
309.   das411
Argh, and I've been thinking all day of a clever way to say "Does anybody else have a sneaking suspicion the Brewers are looking for Phil Garner's phone number?"
2008-09-15 15:06:01
310.   Marty
The Raiders hired a sports columnist to coach their team?
2008-09-15 15:09:21
311.   bhsportsguy
Read what Pittsburgh Pirate blogger Where Have You Gone Andy Van Slyke has to say about Andy LaRoche and to some extent, the Dodgers.

http://www.whygavs.com/

2008-09-15 15:10:10
312.   bhsportsguy
308 That was Withrow, Adkins will never be confused with Kershaw, Kuo or Elbert.
2008-09-15 15:10:31
313.   Xeifrank
With the crashed metrolink train's final destination 7 or 8 miles from where I live I was worried about the impact on the local community. And today I found out about one person that I knew from a distance that was killed in the crash. It was the 51 year old father of three handicapped children. He met his wife (who is blind) at the mall when she literally bumped/walked into him. A sad ending to one of the more romantic stories you will ever hear. vr, Xei
2008-09-15 15:10:42
314.   silverwidow
308 Adkins throws in the high-80s.

The guy you're thinking about is Chris Withrow (our 2007 1st rounder).

2008-09-15 15:11:38
315.   Tripon
308 I thought that was Chris Withrow who's only 19, but suffered an injury in 2007.

Adkins is a 23 year old former college pitcher from Tenn. His numbers aren't great though.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/james-adkins.shtml

2008-09-15 15:14:08
316.   underdog
I kind of liked the Adkins pick at the time, though I thought they took him too high, and now it appears I was kind of wrong, though maybe he'll turn into a decent relief pitcher -- for the Padres.
2008-09-15 15:14:49
317.   Zak
313 Yeah, it's really sad. I stopped reading about the victims after about 5 or so. Really heartbreaking. And I live within 5 miles from there too. We actually had dinner in Chatsworth that evening around 6 and I had no idea what had happened until we were at the restaurant and a bunch of TVs were showing live footage. Then the helicopters and ambulances and police cars passing by made more sense.
2008-09-15 15:15:20
318.   Tripon
Adkins might be Cory Wade... in 3 years time. But then again not even Cory Wade thought he could be Cory Wade.
2008-09-15 15:15:37
319.   mwhite06
313 That is horrible. I also live in the area and very rarely will take the train into Los Angeles (particularly when my wife and I are heading to Dodger Stadium after work so we don't take 2 cars to the stadium.) I know there were some people affected in the Royal HS and Simi Valley HS communities as well.
2008-09-15 15:18:48
320.   Tripon
http://www.beloblog.com/Pe_Blogs/prosports/mlb/dodgers/

Diamond wrote a LaRoche article.

2008-09-15 15:25:41
321.   MollyKnight
Is there a list of the Metrolink victims somewhere?
2008-09-15 15:27:47
322.   cargill06
I have this feeling that I keep trying to ignore, that feeling is that Kuo is done for the year.
2008-09-15 15:28:06
323.   bhsportsguy
321 http://tinyurl.com/59e966
2008-09-15 15:31:58
324.   Eric Stephen
The Dodgers have not lost a series in Pittsburgh since getting swept in June 1999.

http://www.bb-ref.com/pi/shareit/2EbU

Since losing to Todd Ritchie, Jason Schmidt, and Marc Wilkins nine years ago, the Dodgers have made ten trips to Pittsburgh. The club has won all eight 3-game series vs. the Pirates, and one of the two 4-game series. The two clubs split a 4-game series in 2006.

The Dodgers have won 24 of their last 31 games in The Steel City.

2008-09-15 15:35:03
325.   Bob Timmermann
324
I think locals prefer "The 'Burgh."
2008-09-15 15:38:28
326.   Jon Weisman
NPUT
2008-09-15 15:41:19
327.   NoHoDodger
Why would Torre put Martin as a leadoff hitter and have Pierre bat second?

Wouldn't Martin be a better choice to hit in front of Manny? The two slot will see more fastballs around the plate, perfect for Martin who has some sock, not so perfect for Pierre who has no sock.

But then again, could this be the game that Pierre gets his first homer by sitting on a fastball up the gut?

2008-09-15 15:43:44
328.   ToyCannon
It feels strange to peruse a list of name hoping that you don't find anyone you know. In the end for every name on that list a group of people are going to be impacted and it matters little if you knew them or not.
I recognized the last name of my vet (Villalobos)and hoped it wasn't her daughter. But if it wasn't her daughter she was still someone's daughter and losing an 18 year old daughter because someone didn't do the job they are entrusted to do would bust me.
2008-09-15 16:15:14
329.   Gen3Blue
308 Thank you Bh--I think I feel better. I just got in and checked back.

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