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2008 Season

Dodger home record: 50-35 (.588)
When Jon attended: 9-5 (.643)
When Jon didn't: 41-30 (.577)

1991-2008

Dodgers at home: 795-635 (.556)
Jon attended: 302-238 (.559)*
Jon didn't: 498-404 (.552)
* includes road games attended

2009 Payroll Worksheet

Current Roster with Estimated 2009 Salaries
(updated November 14)

Most figures are estimates (some are wild estimates) but will be updated as information comes in. Corrections welcome.

More contract details here.

Starting Pitchers (5)
$10,000,000 Hiroki Kuroda
*$475,000 Chad Billingsley
*$415,000 Clayton Kershaw
*$405,000 Eric Stults
*$400,000 James McDonald
*Total: $11,695,000

Bullpen (7)
*$2,500,000 Takashi Saito
*$1,300,000 Scott Proctor
*$1,500,000 Jonathan Broxton
*$425,000 Hong-Chih Kuo
*$420,000 Cory Wade
*$410,000 Ramon Troncoso
*$400,000 Scott Elbert
Total: $6,955,000

Also on 40-man roster
Mario Alvarez
Yhency Brazoban
Greg Miller
Justin Orenduff

Starting Lineup (8)
$17,100,000 Andruw Jones
*$3,000,000 Russell Martin
*$2,500,000 Andre Ethier
*$600,000 Matt Kemp
*$600,000 James Loney
*$500,000 Angel Berroa
*$410,000 Blake DeWitt
*$400,000 Tony Abreu
Total: $25,110,000

Bench (5)
$10,000,000 Juan Pierre
*$600,000 Jason Repko
*$410,000 Delwyn Young
*$400,000 Danny Ardoin
*$400,000 Chin-Lung Hu
Total: $11,810,000
Note: Team can buy out Ozuna's 2009 option for $200,000

Also on 40-man roster
A.J. Ellis
Lucas May
Xavier Paul

Disabled List
$12,000,000 Jason Schmidt

Also Paying ...
$2,000,000 Brad Penny (buyout of $9,000,000 option)
$50,000 Gary Bennett (buyout of $900,000 option)
Note: Kansas City is responsible for $500,000 buyout of Angel Berroa's $5,500,000 option for 2009.

Working total: *$68,020,000

The 2008 Dodgers

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They Were the Champions
2008-10-07 13:59
by Jon Weisman

Not quite sure how the '81 Dodgers avoided a lifetime ban after this. Good thing Judge Landis wasn't around ...


Dodgers - We Are The Champions
by meechone

The singing! The eye makeup! The striptease! The Steinbrenner elevator jokes! And an appearance from Madame!

And still this was better than this year's Emmys. Thanks to Duk at Big League Stew at Yahoo! Sports.

Comments (177)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-10-07 14:14:33
1.   trainwreck
How do the Dodgers keep getting involved in cheesy music?
2008-10-07 14:20:32
2.   Jon Weisman
Hollywood Joe got LATed in a bad way. He needs to repost here :)
2008-10-07 14:30:56
3.   Jim Hitchcock
2 Great story by HJ.
2008-10-07 14:32:05
4.   KG16
i would have been much better off if i had never seen that video. Luckily, I only made it to "...bade mistakes, I've made a few" before stopping.
2008-10-07 14:33:01
5.   jasonungar07
Oh those glasses on Yeager are classic.
2008-10-07 14:35:08
6.   southbaydodger
Does anyone have a link to video of vins call of the Gibson homer? I've been looking for the past half hour and can't find it.

I teach high school, and my school is having a special dodger party on friday at 1:30! I want to show the Gibson homer to get them pumped!

2008-10-07 14:36:59
7.   Bob Timmermann
6
Tony Jackson owns the rights to the Scully call of the Gibson home run in the 1988 World Series. It bothered him that much that he wrote NBC a big check.
2008-10-07 14:40:19
8.   underdog
I didn't realize til now that Joy Johnstone looked like a sort of goy-ish Jerry Seinfeld.

Oh the pain, the wonderful, horrible pain!

2008-10-07 14:41:22
9.   larry slimfast
I am now embarrassed to be alive.
2008-10-07 14:42:12
10.   bhsportsguy
6 Not only do you get the clip, you get that great Roy Hobbs/Kirk Gibson piece.

http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/la/history/50th/index.jsp

2008-10-07 14:43:59
11.   tjdub
That is just wrong on so many levels. Had to be Johnstone's idea right? I was pretty young but am I wrong in thinking he craved attention far beyond the limits of his playing ability?
2008-10-07 14:49:12
12.   bhsportsguy
11 It was pretty common back then for athletes to try and sing.

Unfortunately for the '70s and '80s Dodgers, they were in the midst of some pretty bad music and dress styles.

2008-10-07 14:50:15
13.   bhsportsguy
10 I was wrong, no spliced in cuts of the Natural but it is still a nice piece.

There is an interview of Mike Lupica, nice glasses.

2008-10-07 14:50:53
14.   Lee Corbett
thanks for the Vin Scully link. Do his calls of the games on radio get streamed on the internet anywhere? I'd love to listen to him during the LCS.
2008-10-07 14:53:00
15.   Harold M Johnson
jon, that made my day. hilarious!
2008-10-07 14:53:06
16.   cargill06
Fair?

Russ > Ruiz
Loney Burrell
Kemp Werth

Lowe = Hamels
Billingsley > Myers
Kuroda > Moyer
Kershaw > Blanton

Bullpens
Dodgers < Phillies

2008-10-07 14:54:13
17.   Bumsrap
America Has Talent 70's style. The foursome that never heard: YOU'RE GOING TO HOLLYWOOD!!!
2008-10-07 14:54:22
18.   JRSarno
(Don't know if someone posted this earlier -- if so, sorry).

Boras says 5 years/85 million.

Source Rocky Mountain News:

THANKS, BUT . . .

Manny Ramirez had an impact with the Dodgers, where he had 53 RBI in the 53 regular-season games after being acquired from Boston, and went 5-for-10 with two RBI in the Dodgers sweep of the Cubs In the National League Division Series.

Ramirez has been on a good behavior, trying to redevelop a free-agent market after his pouting session that helped him for his way out of Boston.

Word, however, is that the Dodgers realize he doesn't fit their long-term needs. A defensive liability in a ballpark that puts an emphasis on defense doesn't compute over the long-term, and Ramirez is looking for a five-year deal. Owner Frank McCourt already has an expensive education on the problems of signing free agents with the likes of Jason Schmidt, Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre, and will be hesitant to go overboard again.

Agent Scott Boras has let it be known through his media outlets that the expectation is for at least five years and $85 million in a deal for Ramirez.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/oct/06/postseason-insider-beckett-says-his-ok-others-thin/?partner=RSS

2008-10-07 14:55:35
19.   bhsportsguy
14 On MLB Gameday Audio (subscription required).

6 You can also purchase 1988 World Series Game 1 on iTunes for $1.99

2008-10-07 14:56:29
20.   cargill06
16 I have no idea why but a bunch of stuff got cut off...

Russ vs. Ruiz. Dodgers
Loney vs Howard. Phillies
DeWitt vs Utley Phillies
Furcal vs. Rollins. Phillies
Blake vs. Feliz. Push
Manny vs. Burrell. Dodgers
Kemp vs. Victorino. Phillies
Ethier vs. Werth. Dodgers

Bench- Dodgers

2008-10-07 14:57:30
21.   trainwreck
I like how baseball was represented by old dorks.
2008-10-07 14:57:43
22.   bhsportsguy
19 Let me add that Gameday Audio is a really good deal, for $15.00 you get to hear any game through the net from Opening Day to the end of the World Series.
2008-10-07 14:59:48
23.   cargill06
[20} Didn't realize how bad Feliz was offensively.

Blake vs. Feliz- Dodgers.

2008-10-07 15:02:52
24.   cargill06
As you can tell, I really need this series to start ASAP.
2008-10-07 15:03:35
25.   ToyCannon
HJ's post at the end of previous thread is one of the best I've read here.
2008-10-07 15:04:28
26.   Lee Corbett
19 22 cheers
2008-10-07 15:06:42
27.   DBrim
Here's my rotation that I don't think will go through.

Lowe
Bills
Kuroda
Lowe (3 days rest)
Bills (normal rest)
Kershaw
Lowe (normal rest)

I'd never pitch Kuroda on the road at this point. I also think Kershaw matches up better against the Phillies lineup. Lowe matches up well against the Phillies park, so I think having him pitch there twice is important.

2008-10-07 15:07:18
28.   bhsportsguy
25 I agree. My mom used to cut out game stories and Jim Murray and send them to me when I was at summer camp. That was cool.
2008-10-07 15:10:03
29.   ToyCannon
20
I think the Dodger bullpen is much better then the Phillies. Durbin/Condrey are lucky pitchers who we will be lucky if they pitch any substantial innings. With Kuo back we can go Wade/Kuo/Saito/Broxton. Wade has been lucky but his lucky just takes him from unbelievable to good, while Durbin/Condrey are actually lousy pitchers. Romero is basically Beimel and if he comes in to face Ethier expect to see a walk instead of an out.
Lidge is awesome but the key will be the bridge to Lidge and I think the bridge is shaky.
2008-10-07 15:10:04
30.   LAT
Add Hollywood Joe to the list of this site's best writers.
2008-10-07 15:12:11
31.   underdog
That was indeed terrific, H-Joe. Come back in here and take a bow.
2008-10-07 15:13:05
32.   cargill06
29 You make a lot of good points, but I made that claim with the assumption of not truely knowing how healthy/effective Kuo and Saito will be.
2008-10-07 15:15:39
33.   Jon Weisman
18 - "A defensive liability in a ballpark that puts an emphasis on defense ..."

Somebody hasn't been watching Dodger Stadium baseball the past 46 seasons. The Dodgers have often gotten by with mediocre left fielders.

2008-10-07 15:18:06
34.   Hollywood Joe
By popular request - thank you for your kind words....

I was 10 years old on October the 7th 1977, my Mother surprised me that day so long ago and made it a day I will never forget.

School was something I did in between playing ball and I was at the age when baseball becomes less something my father watched and more something I understood in my own way, 10 years old was about the time that baseball became my game and it has been that way ever since.

With the day game approaching and me beginning to understand the magnitude of what the post-season meant and how special your few chances at October are, I was prepared to stay close at hand with my beloved Dodgers no matter what the circumstances (or consequences). With a small AM transistor radio stuck deep in my pocket and with an ear piece hidden inside my shirt, I would stealthily choose my spots for quick updates which I would scribble down on a sheet of paper close enough for my best friend to see the score. It was not the first time I used that strategy, day games seemed to be more frequent back then and I never got too far from the sound of Scully even at that age.

The school yard was buzzing with excitement that October morning, fall in the Valley was warm and windy and full of possibility. I don't remember all that we spoke about as we waited for the morning bell to ring but I do recall hatching a plan to lobby our 5th grade teacher to use the AV equipment to watch the game. We knew the TV in the back of the room worked because she often had us set it up to play "The Electric Company" on channel 28 when she wanted to sit in the back of the room drinking coffee and reading her Ladies Home Journal. As with most of our plans that involved adults during that time of our lives the request fell upon deaf ears, looking back our powers of charm and persuasion were not quite developed and our overwhelming excitement and pleading could not have been seen as a good thing in her elderly eyes. There would be no baseball and no talk of baseball while class was in session, she quickly made that clear.

Resigned to my fate and yet comforted by the radio hidden my pocket pressed against my leg, I was prepared to listen as I could and catch the highlights on the TV news later that night. The clock moved slowly. I was unable to think of anything but baseball as I fidgeted at my desk and sketched small flip books of crushing swings and balls flying over fence in the corners of my notebooks. Recess came and went with a blur and still the day dragged on like an old dog on a hot day.

Sometime in that void between the joy of recess and the promise of lunch a student monitor came into our class room, these were the days when messages were still largely hand delivered by the best students of the 6th grade. We stirred in our seats and thought nothing of the note handed to our teacher, things like this were common enough then. As my teacher opened the folded white paper and read it silently, I saw her look in my direction, look down and read again, and look up again at me. My mind raced, "what could I have possibly gotten caught for?" I thought to myself, everything and anything that I could be guilty of within recent memory flashed in front of me – I was truly panicked for there were more than enough things that I was guilty of to warrant some serious consequences should they hit the light of day. Everything from spit wads, to the radio, to pitching quarters in the boys bathroom at lunch, and that's just the stuff I feel comfortable telling you about now.

"Please don't let it be me, please don't, please, please, please" was the sound of my mind reaching out for mercy somewhere above. My teacher calmly folded the note and handed back to the monitor, without an ounce of emotion in her voice she said aloud my name. Oh god, it was me.

She told me to collect my belongings, that my Mother was here and taking me out of school for the rest of the day. Glory hallelujah! I am saved, I am delivered. I knew in an instant that this was no punishment this was salvation. My mother, swayed by my love of the Dodgers, was here to bring me home to watch the game. I tried not to gloat and did what I could to maintain my behavior (and smile) as I quick grabbed my things and floated towards the door.

In the years that have passed so many days that I spent in school, at work, doing the right thing…so many of these days have faded into the black void of memories lost, but that day, when my Mother allowed me to play hooky, that day remains with me always. I remember…
My Mothers smile as I broke into a run when I saw her at the office, burying my face into her stomach and wrapping my arms around her so tight.
My Mom making me a hot waffle sandwich filled with ice cream, possibly the most delicious memory of my youth and letting me eat in front of the television (something she frowns upon to this day).
The Dodgers losing late and my chest being tight, the pain and anxiety which I have come to know as "dread" in my adult life
The improbable joy of Vic Davalillo, a name that I hold dear to this very day and a reference that I drop to people of my age and when they recognize the name I realize I may have found a friend.
The heroics of Manny Mota, on a team full of stars someone who I loved then for reasons I still don't know why
The clutchness of Bill Russell. I have come to not believe in clutch as a concept, but Bill Russell will always be clutch for me
The magic of victory snatched from defeat (the pain of defeat snatched from victory was a lesson soon to me taught to me by the hated Yankees but for this day I was yet unspoiled)

Many days have been lost to the ravages of time, but that day is always my day, an everlasting gift from the love of my mother to the love of this game.

I just called and told her this story.

2008-10-07 15:23:58
35.   jasonungar07
33 Or the last 2 months. You know all that bad defense in LF has our backs up against the wall now.
2008-10-07 15:24:53
36.   Eric Stephen
34
Hollywood Joe, that was an outstanding story!

Until today, I had never heard of a hot waffle sandwich (with or without ice cream, a ha).

2008-10-07 15:28:37
37.   Ken Noe
Wow, on the same way the Reds give up on Patterson, Kenny Williams says he needs speed at the top of the order. Kenny, Ned. Ozzie, Juan.
2008-10-07 15:29:27
38.   adrian beltre
34 awesome. go blue.
2008-10-07 15:29:47
39.   okdodge
Good stuff Joe...
2008-10-07 15:31:46
40.   LU Dodger
http://tinyurl.com/3ubeay

Pretty cool Dodgers video, first posted on the Dodgers.com message board.

2008-10-07 15:32:17
41.   cargill06
37 It just may work, I mean Kenny thought Ken Griffey Jr. is still good and still can play CF so I'm sure he thinks Juan Pierre can play.
2008-10-07 15:39:45
42.   Tripon
problem: If Manny is a mediocre defensive left fielder.

answer: You live with it, and make sure everyone else on the field is either above average, or stellar. Which I think the Dodgers have done this year. Blake, DeWitt, Kemp, Ethier are all above average. While Martin, Loney, Furcal are all above above average.

2008-10-07 15:40:47
43.   Lexinthedena
Ned, Ken, Ken, Ned. Crede for Pierre?....I'm cool wid it.
2008-10-07 15:42:54
44.   cargill06
42 Ethier in RF this year and last year is -1. He ranked 30th last year among RF's in allowing baserunners to advance and 23rd this year, to call him above average maybe a bit generous.

Casey Blake is -10 at 3B this year and last.

2008-10-07 15:43:45
45.   Tripon
Joe Crede is already an FA this off season. And last I checked, baseball teams aren't allowed sign and trades.
2008-10-07 15:43:54
46.   okdodge
37 - That really could work. The White Sox have Josh Fields that is always ready to bust through, they just never give him a chance, ala LaRoche w/o the injury bug. If we got either Fields or Crede for Pierre that would be stellar.
2008-10-07 15:44:17
47.   cargill06
43 Fine with me too.

Crede, Furcal/Hu, DeWitt, and Loney should be a very good defensive infield at least.

2008-10-07 15:45:00
48.   Tripon
44 Plus or minus system?

I always wonder who wold be the average fielder in that situation would be? Is he mythical?

2008-10-07 15:46:23
49.   Tripon
White Sox need an SS. Its more likely they're in the Furcal sweepstakes.
2008-10-07 15:49:31
50.   schoffle
44

Do you have that number for DeWitt? I think that he has been pretty awful defensive 2nd baseman but that seems to go against the opinion of the group. Also is there any Dodger who is considered good on the + - system, heck how about any Dodger's in the plus (seriously)? I guess Furcal probably does, but this team looks fairly bad on defense to me.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-10-07 15:50:24
51.   blue22
Are people still considering Russ Martin stellar (or even well above-average) on defense? I gave that up awhile ago, gold glove or no. He's good enough to play there for the long haul, but my opinion has gone down on him significantly.
2008-10-07 15:53:39
52.   cargill06
50 DeWitt is a +11 at 3B which ranks 6th among 3B which is very good considering the limited time there. He was a -4 at 2B, but it is a realitvely small sampe.

Furcal was a 0 this year, +6 last year, +4 in '06.

2008-10-07 15:54:15
53.   Lexinthedena
I really hope Furcal stays, the Dodgers are so good with him and Manny in the lineup.
2008-10-07 15:54:26
54.   cargill06
52 Makes you appreicate even more how good the pitching has been with a bunch of average to below average defense out there.
2008-10-07 15:55:44
55.   Tripon
52 How does +/- handle defensive switches in late innings?
2008-10-07 15:55:52
56.   Lexinthedena
Who here really believes in defensive rating systems?

I don't know enough about them to have an opinion, but DeWitt and Casey Blake, who imagine rank pretty low, have seemed pretty good with the glove.

2008-10-07 15:57:56
57.   cargill06
55 There are surely people here better suited to answer this question that I, but I believe it looks at the plays you make at the postition you are playing. So if you play 2B for 7 innings and 3B for 2 innings it looks at all those plays for those 7 innings and puts it in your 2B stats. Than the last 2 innings at 3B it puts with your 3B stats.
2008-10-07 15:59:05
58.   cargill06
56 I read about the +/- system and it seems pretty solid. The only question I have is it doesn't account for the speed of the runner, but over the course of a season maybe they figue it evens out.
2008-10-07 15:59:07
59.   schoffle
52

Wow I didn't realize that he was so valuable at 3rd, do other defensive metrics support that? Based on the + - system was he the Dodgers best fielder in 2008?

2008-10-07 16:04:46
60.   Robert Fiore
I remember the Dodger version of "We Are the Champions." It was like four male Linda McCartneys.
2008-10-07 16:04:58
61.   Eric Stephen
I propose a moratorium on any talk of offseason moves until the playoffs are done.
2008-10-07 16:05:52
62.   schoffle
58

Why do you believe that it does not account for the speed of the runner? I am under the impression that the plays are graded based on the likelihood of the out being recorded, and therefore the speed of a runner would definitely be considered, but I have been wrong before.

2008-10-07 16:06:31
63.   das411
Toy, Cargill et al, which do you think are most likely:

A - Billingsley shutting down Phillies offense
B - Kuroda shutting down Phillies offense
C - Myers shutting down Dodgers offense
D - Moyer shutting down Dodgers offense

?

How about:

1 - Phillies light up Billinglsey
2 - Phillies light up Kuroda
3 - Dodgers light up Myers
4 - Dodgers light up Moyer

? I'd also say that Blake vs Feliz is a push, and at this point so is Ether v Werth. To me, it seems like both teams will pitch around the other one's best bat, Howard for the Phils and Manny for the Dodgers, so the rest of which team's offense is more likely to pick up for them?

Of course, if HCK(G) is in uniform for the Dodgers, all bets are off...

(and how long has DT been trying to trade Juan Pierre to the ChiSox? As long as Steve has been gone?)

2008-10-07 16:18:59
64.   KG16
58 - the +/- systems seems rather subjective too me. Who is to say that "any other player at that position" would get to a ball. At least that's my understanding of the system.

Personally, I don't put much faith in defensive metrics. Too many inherent flaws. I'll take scouting reports and what I can observe.

Like outfielders allowing runners to advance, if you're constantly catching balls at the warning track, you're going to have more runners advance than a guy catching them in shallow right or in right-center.

2008-10-07 16:21:14
65.   Jim Hitchcock
Say what you will about Jeff Kent, But I really respect the comment he made in Tony Jackson's article yesterday:

"How you keep your attitude, your personality up, is we all still love the game," Kent said. "We all still love to win. We all still love to play it, whether you're physically in it or not, you still play the game in your mind. It's not hard."

2008-10-07 16:23:24
66.   Tripon
Is Kuo replacing McDonald on the roster, or Ozuna? Personally, I'd replace both McDonald and Ozuna with Proctor and Kuo. I rather have too many bullpen arms than too little, and if the game comes down to having to actually let Ozuna field, than the Dodgers are in big trouble already.
2008-10-07 16:30:40
67.   Jim Hitchcock
Oh, man, RIP Lloyd Thaxton. I can remember dancing to his theme song at a very young age.
2008-10-07 16:32:07
68.   Jim Hitchcock
Oh, man, RIP Lloyd Thaxton. I can remember dancing to his theme song at a very young age.
2008-10-07 16:32:56
69.   Jim Hitchcock
Whoops, 67 got lost in cyberspace for a spell there.
2008-10-07 16:34:12
70.   Tripon
Its the battle you have all been waiting for.

ANDRE ETHIER VS JAYSON WERTH.

2008-10-07 16:34:55
71.   Humma Kavula
OT:

I know this really belongs on The Griddle, but last night's game is a dead thread. So I'm putting this here:

King Kaufman's column today, in which he argues that Willits really shoulda been called safe.

http://tinyurl.com/4o24rs

Thoughts?

2008-10-07 16:36:22
72.   schoffle
64

Yes it certainly is subjective but at the same time you prefer to rely on scouting and observation, isn't what you observe also subjective? Is that you think that the people involve in the plus minus system watch less baseball than you, or that they lack knowledge of the game? As for scouting, scouting reports only concerns abilities not results so I don't know how that helps. No system is prefect but this one seems to be as good as it gets, and you can always cross reference with other systems that are decent.

66

How about if the game comes down to Kent's ability to score from 2nd on a single? Personally I would drop Park before McDonald or Ozuna.

2008-10-07 16:38:23
73.   wronghanded
71 My thoughts are that Varitek had possession of the ball at the time he made the tag, the ball didn't shake loose until his glove hit the ground. The real question is:

Are the Angels still the best "fundamental" team in baseball when Aybar doesn't even use proper bunting mechanics in that situation?

2008-10-07 16:39:08
74.   Tripon
72 I have been told that pitchers can actually run.
2008-10-07 16:41:31
75.   Humma Kavula
73 In the article, Kaufman doesn't disagree that that's what happened. He agrees with that version of the events. He says that Willits STILL should've been called safe, and that the rulebook needs to change to reflect that.

In other words, a good call of a bad rule.

What Kaufman implies but doesn't say is that if he was the ump, he would've called Willits safe even with the current rule.

2008-10-07 16:41:45
76.   Eric Stephen
73
I was of that opinion as well, but if a runner trying to score plows into the catcher, and the catcher tags the runner but loses the ball after his glove hits the ground the runner will be called safe.

In my example though, I guess it could be argue that the runner initiated the contact (whereas the catcher did last night) although I'm not sure how relevant that part of the argument is.

Bottom line: I think he was safe, but I can be persuaded either way.

2008-10-07 16:44:34
77.   Humma Kavula
Read the column. Check out his examples -- the Cory Hart example and the George Bell example. He makes an interesting case.
2008-10-07 16:48:07
78.   Bob Timmermann
76
I refer Mr. Stephen to the case of Dottie Hinson v. Kate Hinson, 1944.
2008-10-07 16:48:43
79.   milkshakeballa
Why do people considering Wade "lucky"? Is it because almost all hitters make contact off of him? Is it his periphs? I don't get it.
2008-10-07 16:51:19
80.   Eric Stephen
78
Hinson vs. Hinson would have been a better movie than Kramer vs. Kramer.
2008-10-07 16:51:21
81.   xaphor
I think the probelm with comparing the rules for catching to tagging is that in proving you have caught the ball you must come out of the situation with the ball under control. In proving you tagged someone you must go into the situation with the ball in control, what happens after the tag is irrelevant. It can be likened better to a force out where the ball is dropped in the act of throwing. The out is made, what happens after that is immaterial.
2008-10-07 16:52:47
82.   bhsportsguy
Eric Karros's daughter is in her first year at Loyola Marymount and she is on the basketball team.

Man, I am old.

2008-10-07 16:53:44
83.   Eric Stephen
79
Yes, that's pretty much the entire argument. Opponents hit .224 on BABIP; that's hard to keep up over time.
2008-10-07 16:54:27
84.   ToyCannon
63
Toy, Cargill et al, which do you think are most likely:
I'll take A here
A - Billingsley shutting down Phillies offense
B - Kuroda shutting down Phillies offense
C - Myers shutting down Dodgers offense
D - Moyer shutting down Dodgers offense

?

How about:
I'll take D here
1 - Phillies light up Billinglsey
2 - Phillies light up Kuroda
3 - Dodgers light up Myers
4 - Dodgers light up Moyer

If Burrel has shaken off his 2nd half slump that changes things quite a bit. He was such an automatic out in Aug/Sept that it was easy to pitch around Howard. Moyer is the kind of pitcher who doesn't fair well in the postseason. If the Dodgers don't light him up I'll be disappointed, but then again Mr. Davis had some serious luck against us. Wouldn't shock me at all if this goes 7 games. The Philly offense is scary but at the same time I'm loving this Dodger offense at the moment. A healthy Furcal and a rested Martin give the top of the lineup some spice. Ethier will need to deliver because he's going to see lots of baserunners.

It is amazing that no one is arguing that Kemp is better then Victorino. My he's come a long way since being a Rule 5 player twice. I've come down on Depo for giving him up but really the Padres made the bigger mistake when they took him during his 1st Rule 5 venture and then let him come back to us.

2008-10-07 16:54:50
85.   Eric Stephen
81
That's the best argument I've seen for Willits being out. Consider me swayed.
2008-10-07 16:55:22
86.   KG16
72 - I readily admit that my own observations are subjective. But I at least know what my own subjectiveness is. Whereas I don't know the subjectiveness of those who do the +/- ratings. I don't know if they take into account shifts or double play depth or any of the other things that result in a player being a step or two towards the bag that they would not otherwise be. There are too many variables for such a simple system to adequately measure.
2008-10-07 16:57:15
87.   schoffle
74

So do you have no value for speed? Given the amount of off days that we have and that we will only need 3 or 4 starters is there really any value in having 12 pitchers?

I guess neither situation will add much to the team but my opinon is that Ozuna speed is more likely to become a factor than a 12th pitcher in what I can only imagine would be in a long extra inning game.

2008-10-07 16:57:40
88.   cargill06
My understanding of the +/- system is this, long story short every play (that at least on person made at your postion) has a point value, every play you're either gaining or losing points. The point value is based on the % of time the time the play is made on average at the major league level. The example they gave is a "slowly" hit ball the shortstops right (they have the field broke down into hundreds of sections) is made into an out 26% of the time. If fielder "A" makes that play he is rewarded with a +.74 if